Hello, Hello, and welcome.

To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

Okay, so see every Wednesday re recap our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insight.

That's right, And today we're recapping episode fifty seven, which we've named You're not gonna believe this, we've named so good live at the Fox Theater.

These live show titles are brilliant.

I'll say so myself.

I will say so myself.

Do it.

This episode came out February twenty third, twenty seventeen, almost ten years ago.

Oh no, in two years?

Okay, thank you.

All right, let's get into the intro.

But episode that was only eight years ago, number fifty seven.

Wow, you can high Oakland?

What's up?

Wow?

This is so I should should we scream really quick?

Oh?

Yeah?

Ready?

That does feel good?

Yeah?

Our friend, that's good.

Our friend Lazie Cooperman told us that her secret before going stage and not being nervous is just scream into her hands.

It's really good therapeutic.

I may have damaged my instrument a little bit though.

This is fucking crazy, isn't that.

Hi.

Somebody tweeted a picture from the audience of the stage and the front the front.

His piece looks like Beyonce from the Grammys, doesn't it.

Do you think she dressed up like the interior of the Fox Theater.

I'm like that, make me look, give me that Fox look?

She said, who's here?

Who's from Oakland?

And who's from not Oakland?

Sure, ask a seven part question to kick it off.

We definitely want you to be yelling the whole time.

So let's see, basically, who's from San Leandro?

Who's from Dublin?

This is Karen's fucking city.

Can you tell top of the Hill daily sitting?

Anybody?

Not me?

I mean they're from places anyway, let's go.

We don't.

Oh that was my cousin Stevie.

By the way, one and ten of my family members are here tonight.

So I love it.

I know.

I looked on our guests listen.

It was like kill Garret kill, Garret kill, Gareth.

Bay represent we represent in the Bay.

I love it.

Lots of people do should we do a quick outfit?

Yes, walk it across, let's do it.

Look at my uh watch my tights?

Yes, yes, here you got those are cat tights.

If you can't see from the balcony.

You all love that your little cats.

No, no, thank you, No.

I got a hankle dress.

Pockets, pockets, pockets, I'll never.

Stop yelling pockets at the top of my loans.

We were having like a conversation backstage of like what you know, a serious one, and then she goes like this, and I went, oh, tickets right then.

Said do you want me to tell you a quick story about this dress?

Yes, it's going to be fast.

It's gonna be fast.

I'm not asking you, I'm asking her.

We went to the outlet malls in Los Angeles.

We went to the Kate Spades store.

I walked in.

I was like, I have to get oh really quick the sidebar in the middle of the dress story.

Okay, we just want you to know this is the first night of our tour.

We're starting it with you guys.

I'm here, amazing, amazing, crazy crazy.

Anyway, I'm at the outlet moles Kate Spade store.

Have to get my tour long dress has to be black.

That's the rule we made up that we're now stuck in permanently.

It sucks there's no black dresses.

It turns out.

Carstattering obsessively buying black dresses I go in, I see a dress.

It's this one on the rack.

It fits me, it's my size, it has pockets.

I'm like, what the fuck God is with me?

I look at the price tag.

It says two hundred and nineteen dollars.

I was like, hey, listen, I'm gonna wear it for what fifty shows or something like that.

So originally one dress for all the show, yes, the entire run.

Really, these dresses are gonna smell so bad when we're done, true imagine.

So I'm like, here, my mother's voice in my head.

It's a key piece.

You're gonna be able to wear it over and over right, Right, it's worth the money.

When you spend more, you get more.

Yeah.

So I'm like, all right, Pat, So I take the dress up to the counter, put it on the counter.

This is a classic outlet sale.

Outlet store tail seventy nine dollars.

Mother, of course, pockets, plots, pockets, pockets, pockets.

I'll never say what.

She wondered.

She just laughed.

She just kept walking.

Walking down telegraph.

I don't mean, I know, let's see what else are wearing the whole thing?

No, no, no, we can't.

That's crazy.

We're actually gonna wear them all weekend though, So if you see photos that look like it's here and you're like, I don't remember them doing that, it's because we're not.

It's just gonna keep wearing them up and down the coast.

But they're still gonna smell really bad by Monday, for sure.

I mean, well, and then we can burn them in a pie like bitch.

Oh, we have an exclusive merch announcement.

Here's why merche corner.

Oops.

The shirt's got corner corner corner.

Everybody oops.

Yeah, the shirts that are available tonight here at the Fox Theater in Oakland.

We're gonna call them exclusive.

They're we're not calling them mistake shirts.

No, they're exclusive.

They're exclusive to this weekend.

So if you're on the fence, I don't know, are people, then get I mean it's weird that one.

Look, it doesn't need to have our name on it to make it our shirt, that's the thing.

And listen, it doesn't mean the name of the podcast on the front.

We're anywhere, It doesn't on the shirt.

Why reference the name of the show that the shirt belongs to.

You know, and then like someone will see you in that, and like you'll know they're in the know when they're like, I know what that's from, even though it doesn't say the name of what it is, or the name of the hosts on it, or.

Any any name at all.

Really, it's just some words.

Because we knew you guys were like, you know, everyone else needs our name on it because we're gonna forget.

So exclusive merch tonight only and and tomorrow night and tomorrow also tomorrow weekend.

It's a week exclusive.

It's a weekend merch, merch, super special merch.

Should we sit down?

Let's sit down?

Are we gonna?

Is it not all forward?

Like?

Why have a table and then just sit out there?

That's weird.

We've never sat on these sides before.

Oh, should we switch it around?

I don't know.

Yeah, it's just you know this is let's just make it right.

Yeah, there we go.

What's it called?

When you are so okay, we can't hear you and we don't want to know what you're saying.

That's how it works.

That's Karen.

I'm George.

Oh yeah, hi, welcome to my favorite letter everybody.

I shouldn't have done that.

I don't know why I did that.

All right, Welcome to my allergies.

Before we start, I do have one piece of news that might be exciting for everybody that I saw somebody tweeted it to us secondhand from another murderer.

Now you can now on ways get datelines.

Keith Morrison's voice for your GPS.

Did you hear about that that?

Did you listen?

No?

Did you know?

But I want it?

Could you imagine that creep telling you how to get around town?

Hilarious?

I love it.

It's such a great idea.

Is I feel like I would prefer Lieutenant Joe Kenda though that's who that would be my own man.

Really, yeah, it's just snow snarky the whole time.

Everything would be like a thing.

One time I turned down this street and just be like, okay, Joe, just trying to get to target.

I, Betty says.

I.

Betty says, flip a UI.

You know, I said, to make a U turn.

You can never go back, but turn left and and then just keep going out of that kind of hard course.

Oh God, at least it's not Nancy Grace.

She went there one more thing, just really quick.

So I went home really quick to pedal in my California for to see the Oh my god, what if my whole hometown came the fun that you hated me?

So I was eating breakfast with my dad and I said to my dad, Hey, do you want me to get you a Murderino baseball hat?

And he goes, hmm, how about you?

Yeah, he goes, how about you?

How but you get me a shirt?

But instead of a monogram, it's just got a little dead body on it.

And I'd texted her and I guess what we're making next.

Yeah, I'm like, he just wants you to go get him a shirt somewhere else.

Yeah, he doesn't want one of you.

He might just need shirts.

Weirdly, my dad I saw him last weekend and he pointed to his hat and it was a New York City hat and he's like, I'm ready for my trip to New York when you go there.

And I'm like, because you want to go see my show?

And he's just like, no, I want to go to New York.

So I'm taking my dad.

To New York.

All right, Marty's coming?

Yeah nice?

Yeah, all right, right, that's a good way to find out your dad's coming to your show.

Also, they have a this is okay, they have a whole.

Vintage Wiji board like display at the SFO Airport, like to say SFO Airport and just say SFO.

You can say whatever you want, it doesn't really matter.

It's like a huge like a bunch of cabinets of like really fucking old Wigi boards and like the like it's awesome.

You can't touch them, can you?

No, don't touch those?

I love them.

That's bad.

Luck doesn't exist.

Oh that's right, I keep forgetting.

What else?

Uh that kind of sounds rad Actually, yeah.

That's gorgeous.

Uh, that's it.

Lets you want to kick it off.

Let's get into this thing.

Is it murder time?

All right?

We're back.

We're back, and we're planning our latest tour.

Just the moment of me telling everybody the price I thought I was going to pay on that dress and then the actual price and the absolute ovation that we received a bargain.

That's one thing about us is that how could we not love a bargain.

It's like we were in a commercial for like, you know, Coohal's or something when they say what the bargain is, Cheer for it.

Cheer everybody cheers.

Maybe we'll get an integration going where it's like TJ Max and my favorite murder.

And then somebody comes up and scans you scan a tag and then it's.

Like and then the audience pops up and cheers for you so stoked.

Well, it's really funny that we're recording this one today because this morning I literally started my tour dress shopping.

Oh where'd you start it?

We're gonna love it.

Play clothes in Burbank?

Are you going to have them make you something?

No?

But you know what I'm talking about.

Right, It's like one of the greatest vintage shops in town.

Bourbank has like this secret little area of vintage clothing stores that just have treasures.

And so I tried it on a bunch of dresses today, mostly leopard print.

I would do it as sixty's lepar print.

That's I mean, it would be incredible.

Yeah, this is a consideration.

Now we're gonna go back on the road.

Are we going to do what we did before?

I think I'm going to bust out entirely from my clubs, rebellion against my sister and do something new with the shoe.

Are you I think?

I don't think I'm going to do black any black?

That's Okay, I just think that's exciting.

Yeah, Like I just don't.

I want to wear something a little more whimsical.

So that's what I'm looking for, is something that makes me laugh a little bit, you know.

Okay, sure, like that's fun.

Yeah, like something a woman going to a key party who's a little drunk on martinis and capri cigarettes.

Yes, would wear awesome.

Okay that's your mood board.

Yeah, what's yours?

I think I should go God, so you're sorry, do you have a little bit of a seventies direction?

It's going to be between like fifties and like late seventies.

Yeah.

If there's something eighties that's hilarious with shoulder pads, I'm not ashamed.

I'll do it.

So what are you doing?

Yeah?

What if I do?

Turn to the sentry and it's more like a it's like a field marm.

So I have one of those, Like I have the dress that's like, yeah, the shirt that gets cinched at the top and then gets like you get like a corset on the.

Bottom, and you have like tie on pockets.

Yeah, those tieon pockets that they had back then I put under their dress.

Yes, it's almost like there's skirts there's there's several layers of skirts and apron.

Yes, like several that go on separately that someone has to help you fucking tie on.

Yes, and then a shawl that then a shawl that ties around the waist in the back.

Yeah, and then you put the final apron over.

The can I suggest an accessory, sure, a goat, just a live baby walk on goat.

But it's I'm wearing a gorgeous ten thousand dollars bracelet that the chain, the goat's chain is attached to my bracelet.

Or you can go turn up the last century and just go straight up nineties, nineteen nineties.

Fuck you, I'm going to turn to the century, but it's so fucking turn of the twenty first.

So it's just what a choker, some speed, a loud voice, gold schlagger.

Yeah, Oh, we'll make a fine pair.

Camel.

Let's do this bumbling on camel wide just stumbling on stage, the two of us.

I mean, I think the the way we stumbled on stage, and I definitely remember this was the place where that the backstage was so fancy, like we were kind of blown away in Oakland, right, remember that?

Yeah, and your whole family was there.

Yes, my and my cousin's tevee afterwards told me that he did not know what he was going to and didn't understand and then when he got there and when we walked out in the ovation, we got made him cry.

But then like that, they listened to the podcast since they were sought live.

That's a that's like a you know, testament.

I think it is.

It's like we sold we sold him on it.

Yea, but he is.

But he's actually Kate Winkler Dawson's number one fan.

I don't know how he loves her and loved Tenfolds More Wicked and all of it.

So it's they really became a podcast family after the fact that I had to sell out the Fox Theater in Oakland before you want to leave.

That's all it takes, folks to get your family to be proud of you.

Yes, that's right, just a little bit of show biz.

Wait, and this was this a show where not this one, but the second night Nora came out and did a cartwheel.

That's right, that's what I was thinking of.

She definitely did a cartwheel on stage because we were like, you're never going to get a chance like this again.

Come out on stage, come and do it.

She did it those eight years ago.

She was like twelve or something.

Yep, No, she was, she was like nine.

And now she's going to college right.

Wow, she's basically prepping right now to go move into the dorms.

Jesus, it's so crazy.

And I'm prepping to move into a retirement home.

And I'm not prepping for anything.

I'm just letting life take me where it's gonna take me.

Here in the nineties, baby, I.

Actually am going to try to put an outfit idea together that would be well, here's what it would be.

Why am I pretending that I have to think about it.

It would be a way too short for my butt, plaid mini skirt.

Yeah, with tight giant safety pin, like giant ridiculous safety pin.

Remember that was like like a mini kilts for a girl.

Yes, And a baby doll t shirt that says like my the one I loved so much, which was fuck the environment or no, sorry, I hate the environment.

You know, you get one of those yeah uh boo black tights docs that have runs in them.

Yeah, doc boots and a little cardigan sweater lunch box as your purse, lunch box is a purse filled with drugs.

Yeah, oh yeah, we had that, Barretts Iron, Bobby rats Hall, Yeah, barettes that just sit on your hair because they're not really working.

Choker, uh, choker tongue ring.

Maybe not for me, belly, I mean my dumb salmon tattoo.

I got a massage the other day and it was just like the first ten minutes and it was such a great massage, and then I remembered I have a salmon tattoo, and I was like, I wanted to say something.

I'm like, don't say anything.

Just it's just too bad for you.

I always forget it's there.

I forget.

My heart's are on my butt too.

It's just not my problem, you know.

Yeah, that's right, it's not everybody else's problem.

I guarantee you she's seen way worse tattoos than that.

I guarantee you, like, way like that.

She should have been apologized too, for and that's your Salmon's not that.

My salmon is Field and stream approved.

Anyway, we should be talking about, Oh my show.

All right, let's get on to the show.

Should we get started?

Yes, we're about to get into Georgia's story.

This one is forgot that I've covered this.

That's right, Like bad this one is.

Then I was like, I'll never do this one.

And then I was looking at this and I'm like, oh, I've done this one at a live show.

What was I thinking?

Well, but also, you know what you were thinking, we're a true crime podcast and we're going to tell these people true crime stories.

We didn't really understand that we could control the reception right and the vibe.

But also it's a very relevant and very compelling local story.

Totally.

It's yeah, it's a very like every local knows it, they want to hear it.

And so I did it, and so she did it.

So now let's get into Georgia's story about the speed freak killers.

Who's first, I'm first, you're first, I'm first this week.

All right, this is a real fun one.

Oh look, why.

Do you keep it?

Literally, this piece of paper has been anytime it's within two feet of me.

She snatches it away and goes, don't look.

It's like I would get the point of the podcast.

I'm not gonna fucking sneak and read it and be like.

Uh huh, I would look.

I'm amazed they haven't looked at yours show.

I've heard this already, all right, so.

Let's talk about two dudes who are total pieces of shit great also known as the speed freak Killers.

Uh oh, nobody see nobody knows about him, Okay, but the bunch of speed freaks in the audience are like, uh oh, it means they found out they found arrestless man and then they come in.

That would actually be an amazing end of this show, like.

A Phil Collins concert.

You saw me when you were drowning and he did not land open it.

That's not how it goes.

I Actually there was like a kid who drove me here from my hotel who like and I was telling him about the podcast that I was listening to about Boston stranglers and he's like, never heard of them.

And I'm like, oh, you're twenty one and you don't know about murders.

Yeah, yes, he's about to speed freak Jared listen up is his name?

Jared Lauren Herzog and Wesley Shermantine Junior were childhood friends.

They grew up on the Stane Street, like right by each other, in a farming town called Lynden, California.

Yeah, fucked.

They hold on they might actually just like the names of towns in California.

Is that what you're doing?

M h.

It's like those people who eat like they're at a restaurant and someone else is getting sung Happy Birthday and they sing along with it too, and.

You're like doing They don't know you, Okay.

They grew up together.

It's ninety five miles east of California.

They were hunters.

They graduated high school in eighty four, and they gained a reputation as matthewsers Amy too.

Not in nineteen eighty four of them.

It's believed that Herzog and Sherman Time began murdering people when they were around eighteen or nineteen, although it's possible it started earlier than that.

Even so, Shermantine would brag to his friends and families about making people disappear, which is what you want in a sibling.

Their families like, I mean, take that in the way that I choose to interpret it.

Oh, are you a magician?

You can make people disappear.

Finally, you have an interest that we can get into.

Yah, do you do it?

Do it?

Okay.

Their first known victim was in nineteen eighty five, sixteen year old Stockton, California girl named Chevy Wheeler disedge appeared.

It says.

She had been dating and she had been dating nineteen year old Wesley and had ditch school that day to hang out with him.

Don't hang out with your nineteen year old boyfriend, h when you did your school man, he.

Cool stands school, then you're get to be this.

No, we dropped out of college.

We really didn't finish any school at all, skin of my teeth.

Okay.

So then, so she had been dating him, she left to hang out with him, never seen again.

Her blood was found in his cabin that he had, but the district attorney didn't think the evidence was definitive.

So nope, Well.

Here's the one that would know.

In nineteen eighty four, it's just splattered willy nilly blood is meaningless.

Yeah, I'm like, what does it mean?

You know?

So, then in ninety eight, so that was eighty five.

Now we're in ninety eight, and then Cindy vander Heyden, she's twenty five.

The San Joaquin Valley disappears from the Linden Bar, in which sounds like a fucking dive bar that you don't want to be in.

Even if like the inn and at the end of any bar, you don't go there.

Yeah, yeah, oh yeah yeah.

She had been seen talking to Lauren and Wesley, and actually Lauren had dated her older sister, so they knew each other, and supposedly they all left together, the three of them.

Then her car is found by her dad the next day, like outside of local cemetery.

It's like a new car, and the dad was like, what the fuck is her car doing there?

And like they panic and it's really sad.

Then so she disappears and turn and then the cops are like, wait a second, he has something to do.

Wesley hast thing to do with Cindy's disappearance, and they were like thirteen years later earlier, this other one.

They're like putting the pieces together so they can't get his DNA, but they repossess his car when he doesn't pay for it, pay the payments and they fucking swap that shit.

All that meaningless DNA is suddenly really.

It's ninety eight and people give a shit him.

Okay, can I tell you about his tattoos real quick?

Please?

Lauren had made and fueled by hate and restrained by reality.

Sorry say it again, made.

And fueled by hate and restrained by reality.

That's but he's already killed two people.

Yeah, so he's not being restrained by anything.

Sounds like our government.

Also, that's why I whispered that I.

Didn't know what you said.

Oh, I said, sounds like our government.

Oh then I got shot.

Sent a hitmail to Georgia.

At Georgia, I just wondered what the picture underneath that phrase was, like a just like a funt, like a seal with a ball on his nose or something, I don't know, like a baby chick, just like the Notre Dame irishman, restrained by reality.

You know.

It was a Tasmanian devil ha.

And he's wearing cut off jeans.

Totally yes, just all mad.

He also had a tattoo on his right foot that said made the devil do it, made the devil do it?

Yeah unless I unless I mom no, I copied and pasted that made the devil do it.

So his foot made the devil do something.

Apparently the Devil's like, dude, I'm good, don't involve me in your bullshit.

The devil said, I can do it without meth and so I don't even said he's Okay, this motherfucker was married with child children, of course, and then he offers to give DNA once they like start looking into Wesley as Buddy Wesley.

So the police pick him up.

They're gonna bring up to the station, and in the car on the way to the station, he starts fucking crying and asks what he can do to get out of this wait.

He may have been crying about those tattoos.

Though, bar enough, I don't even like the Tasmanian double anymore.

I was made by hate.

It feels bad day hate.

So he gets interrogated for seventeen hours, confesses to the murder of Cindy.

He says that they met her at a bar.

They're gonna go do drugs.

Wesley did everything, attempts to rape her.

She resists.

They pull over.

Bad things happen, and.

He so Lauren was like stabbing Cindy or Lauren said that when Wesley was stabbing Cindy, he said, just let it come natural.

I know.

He told detectives of Wesley responsible for at least twenty four murders.

Oh he should.

He doesn't confess to anything himself, though, and just makes it seem like he's an accomplice.

Of course, sure, you're just standing by.

Yeah, a murder again.

I wanted to go to David Busters, goddamn it.

He said we could go after so I said, okay, all right.

So next day West He's arrested.

Lauren Keith's talking tells him about the eighty four killing spree that they just shot to fucking random dudes who were like hanging out outside their car, and he confesses to killing a man, a forty one year man named Henry Howell.

He's at the side of his road with his broken car and they just go up and shoot him.

And it's the nineteen eighty four in Hope Valley.

In two thousand and thirty four year old Wesley goes on trial for four murders, but Lauren's confession of what happened his seventeen hour interrogation is inadmissible because the tape couldn't be cross examined.

Mm hm.

The jury finds him guilty though first degree murder in all four cases.

He's offered a deal to sentencings that the death penalty would be off the table if they told him where the body of Cindy and Chevy were, but he also wanted the twenty thousand dollars reward that had been offered for their whereabouts.

Sure, absolutely found them.

You should absolutely get twenty thousand dollars of the reward for finding you the murderer.

You right, That is totally how it works, exactly.

Sounds like our government.

Let's just keep doing it.

Let's just keep doing it.

Oh, night long, it's fine.

We're going to Vancouver tomorrow.

We can just stay there.

I forgot my passport.

Oh that's right.

Yeah, yeah, it's really worked out.

My husband is a dear, sweet angel who's FedExing things.

Okay, so okay, the family about the twenty thousand dollars reward says.

Fuck yourself.

Yeah no, no, no, no, no good, they said.

So he's sentenced to death.

Then Lauren has tried for the murder of five people, including Cindy.

His video is admissible.

Now he's found guilty of first degree in three killings, and he gets life without the possibility of parole.

But wait, nope, it gets worse.

In two thousand and four, state appeals court overturn Lauren's conviction, saying that police coerced his confession during the long interrogations, and they said that the police ignored his rights to remain silent provided deprived him of all this shit a neutrial order, but Herzog's lawyer worked out a plea deal with the prosecutors.

He agreed to guilty the manslaughter and accessory to murder in exchange for a fourteen year sentence with credit for a time.

Sir, he's he's out on parole on September eighteenth, twenty ten.

Wait a second, it's twenty seventeen.

Yeah.

He goes lives in like a shitty home.

They keep an eye on him.

He's got all this tracking device.

But don't worry, guys.

He kills himself.

So he basically when he finds out that Wesley is going to tell them where the bodies are, He's like, oh shit, and kills himself.

He is offered thirty three thousand dollars is by a bounty hunter to tell him where the bodies are.

WHOA, I know, I think he tricked him though, So let's see.

He provides maps to five burial sites where his victims could be found, referring to one of them as their bone yard.

And they find Cindy and Chevy's bodies, and there's three separate barial sites, and human remains are found there at least three hundred human bones of varying size, as well as coats, shoes, purses, and jewelry from a well on the land in rural North Caro, California.

But for a second, I thought they fucking shift some.

Bones go over here.

They found other remains in a well, and so dental records identify Cindy and Chevy, and they find almost a thousand human bone fragments and an old abandoned well, including a woman named jo Anne Hobson.

She was sixteen years old, went missing in eighty five, and Wesley claims that there as many as seventy two.

Victims, seventy two in that amount of time.

Can you believe?

Yeah?

Can you believe that?

Like, I didn't even hear about these dudes.

Now, I've never heard of this.

I've seen their names.

But actually, when I was doing this research, I had a ghost there's no place that just explains what happened, and like.

Who got who was this who disappeared?

It's always like there's an article about these two women who disappeared.

There's an article about him killing himself.

There's like little fragments, but there's not underneath the one.

No, so I had him make it's just like.

And maybe maybe make up some facts whatever.

And I don't know at tattoos, they're not going to know if he has those tattoos are always dead.

That's crazy.

Well, that's because that's so many.

I know, that's a I mean, why would you make I don't know.

It's just just like, well it was if it was from like eighty four to ninety eight.

There's a lot of time.

And yes, well they also believe that he's connected.

They're connected almost almost fourteen years is fourteen?

I don't I don't know.

Yes, they also believed that they may be connected to the eighty eight disappearance of nine year old Michelle Garrick from Hayward.

You remember that one.

She was abducted on November nineteenth, nineteen eighty eight, in broad daylight outside a grocery store.

She found her scooter.

It had been moved next to a park car, and she goes to get it.

Some motherfucker grabs her and puts through the car and the like, what's the call?

When they draw your face gotch thank you?

I thought you said, what's it called?

When they draw on your face, I'm like falling asleep at a frat party.

What the fuck is?

What is this story composite sketch of ye got it?

Got it?

So the sketch yes, and it looks just fucking like Lauren, Like it's just creepy and so she Her case was the first missing child case to be featured on America's Most Wanted.

So Wesley, one of the speed Freak dudes, wrote a letter saying that Lauren committed no, no, no, that's a copy and paste mistake.

That he said that they should look into what happened to that Hayward girl and actually found shoes at the bottom of the well that looked like the.

One she was wearing that day.

I know, sweet baby.

Okay.

So Central Valley Department destroyed a bunch of missing person record though, so we might not ever know that Okay and the other suspected victims that have been letter look like is Terry Ann Forchuer from Reno Dina McCann, she was lasting getting gas near LOWD Eye while two men were bothering her, and then Kimberly and Billy disappeared from Stockton and Robin Armtrout whose body was found stabbed to duck and was lasting getting into a car with two men, and the car matched the description of Wesley's.

So he's still on death row.

And when he got he's like opening up a lot more now.

And he said it's.

Good, I know, he said, doing some poetry and stuff, like really accessing his feelings.

He's like doing the thing of like, oh yeah, I fucked up.

Okay, I get it.

My son won't talk to me anymore.

So I know how these parents feel of losing their children, not even fucking kidding you.

Well, I mean, look, I don't know.

There's nothing I have to say about some wisdom.

Look, meth is bad.

It really is, he says.

Now, to think about all that stuff I did, I try not to.

I would have nightmares.

Fuck you pal, night night, motherfucker.

Wow.

Speed freak killers, the speed freak killers, everybody.

Shit, Yeah, that's your fucking doing.

Northern California.

You guys didn't do it, and we're back.

Okay.

Do you have updates for this case?

I do.

As of May twenty twenty three, San Joaquin County Detectives Jeremy Davis, who grew up in herman's neighborhood and Chris, I know.

I mean they're all like locals and it's small towny, blue collar, you know.

And Chris Sturney are methodically reviewing decades of unsolved cases, particularly in rural areas between Stockton and Tracy, to look for patterns and possible links to Shermantine and Herzog.

And so items recovered in twenty twelve, like a ring, sandals, and a lockett are now being publicly released by investigators in hope someone recognizes those items and helps identify the mysterious Jane Doe from the well.

And I imagine like you have a missing daughter and you have to go look at those items online, right, try to see if you recognize.

No, I can't imagine.

And the article about that, there's an article in the Sacramento News and Review by Scott Thomas Anderson and it's a really great article if you want to read about that.

It's got some stuff about the Golden State Killer as well, and it's just more heartbreak.

Yeah.

And then due to California's changing stance on the death penalty, Wesley Shermantine was moved off of death row in twenty twenty four.

He remains in prison and hopefully always will.

Those murders were horrific, so bad.

I'm glad I did them and we got them out of the way, and we never have to do them again until we do their next rewind.

Of this, that's right.

Then we have to look at all in the face once again.

All right, Well, let's get into Karen's story about Herbert Mullen.

All right, now, I get comfy.

Oh, now you're gonna dig in.

Wow, mine also did drugs.

He did a lot of drugs.

My guy.

He doesn't really have a funny nickname like many of them do, although you've probably heard of him.

His name is Herbert Mullen, and Herbert Mullen, thank you.

Herbert Mullen is the serial killer from uh it's a Fenton, California, near Santa Cruz and represent go banana slugs.

Rdam bang.

Yeah this you see Santa Cruz mascot is a banana sug.

Yes.

Really.

The children they got to vote on their own mascot, and because irony is fun, they chose a banana slug.

No, no, never let children choose anything important.

We were when I was a soccer we were the teal Tornado like you.

Don't pick your own stupid things, and kids are dumb, you know, And well, I mean it is college.

Oh Jesus Christ, that's even worse.

Well, yeah, I'm disappointed.

They love pot so who doesn't.

So Herbert Mullen was the guy.

You may have heard of him.

It happened in the seventies.

He was the one that was active at the same time as Edmund Kemper, the co ed killer who was also in Santa Cruz, so that Santa Cruz in the early seventies had two full on serial killers at the same time, earning it the nickname Murderville USA.

Yeah, our own little Santa Cruz work live play murder mill you murder hide bum out.

But unlike Edmund Kemper, Herbert Mullen was killing for our benefit.

He believed that he had to make human sacrifices so that earthquakes wouldn't hit California.

Did anyone ever tell him that earthquakes are kind of fun though, No.

He's very he's clearly very scared of earthquakes.

Idiot.

He didn't want them to happen.

And I'll let me tell you about it.

I'll tell you a little bit about him.

So he was born in April eighteenth, nineteen forty seven, to a very strict Catholic family.

He was in high school, he was good looking, athletic, and polite, the trifecta.

Now be careful, I'm telling you it is not good to peak in high school.

Psychotic or charming.

Yeah, somewhere in between.

That's what you want.

If you're hiding behind that.

Those the beautiful teeth.

Good luck.

He was actually voted most likely to succeed, and he did.

I guess, and he.

Well, it's some some saw it as a success.

After graduating in nineteen sixty five, he went to college.

He majored in engineering, and he considered father following in his father's footsteps of joining in the military.

But the turning point of his otherwise normal life came around the time when his best friend was killed in a car accident.

And this was the first moment where a psychotic episode was triggered.

So he was right at the age where schizophrenia starts to show in young men.

And basically it was the stress and the grief.

He had this psychotic episode, and his behavior became began to change entirely, and his family started to get really scared of him, so his friend died.

He built a shrine in his room to his friend.

He started arranging all the furniture in his room around the shrine, and he was sitting it for hours and hours alone.

He had to break up with his girlfriend, explaining to her that he thought he was turning gay because of the shrine.

Just turn into a game, just slowly turning, turning, turning.

He was gonna let her know when he turned entirely, but he didn't feel comfortable leading her on.

I'm lying about all that.

For he became obsessed with the concept of reincarnation, and he became increasingly paranoid, and he started hearing voices.

So his behavior was really scaring his family because he was starting to do super weird things like big his sister for sex.

What so gay such a game of And he also was doing a thing that he began to compulsively imitate every movement his brother in law made.

God.

His sister was also married, so it was sinful in many ways that he was begging her for sex.

The movement was sex, yeah, no, no, just every movement.

So this is actually a real disorder called echopraxia.

Really, yes, there's echopraxya is when you are have the compulsion to imitate every single thing a person does.

Even if you don't want to.

You just have to keep a compulsion.

And echolalia is the compulsion and to repeat anything.

Someone says, what's the compulsion?

I want to screw your sister, gross, I guess that's called Game of thrones.

Yeah, what, thank you?

All the way up in the back fucking pro Okay.

So, in the early seventies, in an attempt to calm himself, he began to take huge doses of LSD.

Oh, what a perfect solution.

He also was taking a lot of amphetamines.

Yeah, just a little bit to bring him up after he went into that other dimension.

That sounds like a no for little energy.

I'm not a doctor, but if you're feeling paranoid I think you're seeing things, acid isn't the way.

It's just not.

It's a non solution.

And if you're paranoid and think you're seeing things because you're on acid, math isn't the way.

Yeah, that's right.

Let's not.

Don't double down, no, no, no, yeah, don't go into the white drug area like pick a drug.

No, don't do drugs.

Don't you drugs.

But if you're but if you're gonna you know, listen, you know ow you know, you know, just hit myself in the face of the.

He missed it.

I wanted to tell you, Oh, I.

Wrote here, maybe try some aromatic oils.

It's all love yourself at that moment, right, That's what you were fun.

I was having a great time to he was huge thing a coffee as enjoying myself.

So Herbert came to believe that his friend's death had been a part of a grand cosmic plan, and he changed his college manajor from engineering to philosophy.

He became obsessed with reincarnation, religion, and take note impending natural disasters.

So in nineteen sixty nine, he was finally diagnosed with severe paranoid schizophrenia, and he allowed his family to commit him to Mendocino State, one of the many state hospitals that doesn't exist anymore because they cut the funding for mental health, which is fucked.

Let's see what we can do about that, America.

Is your mom work?

Did your mom work there?

Uh, Mendocino's way up north, but she did work in the state hospital.

Yeah, can't you can't let a city go bye.

Well, it's all of California has come to see us tonight.

It's so excellent.

I don't know a single person here.

No, there's nobody on my No, you.

Don't know what if you find out that you do?

Okay?

So Herbert spent the following years.

Oh he sorry.

He went to Mendocino State Hospital.

I preach, preach, preach, and then the back half of that was he checked himself out six weeks later.

So then he spent the following years drifting around northern California, working small time jobs, spending short periods of time in various mental institutions.

He practiced yoga, meditation, ate acro biotic diet.

Yet he was vocally ultra conservative and essential oil.

And maybe he was using some essential oils, which was my idea.

He spent time as an amateur boxer.

He actually had to be forcibly removed from the ring when he wouldn't stop beating his opponent.

Hey, hey, you're an amateur, you don't have to kill that guy.

At one point he attempted to join the priesthood and they were like no thanks, which is really saying something.

All right, So in this time Herbert is fixating on impending natural disasters, of course, also doing tons of acid, and he comes up with a theory.

He becomes convinced that nature requires a blood sacrifice to keep the next big earthquake from hitting California.

He theorized that the violence during the Vietnam War had been enough bloodshed to control earthquakes throughout the late sixties, but now that the war was over, there was nothing to stop the big the big one from destroying the state.

And how does he know the percentage of blood to like the percentage of year, like the number of years, you know what I mean?

Because he was an engineer.

No, I know, he's like a typical like, oh, actually it's just much blood, like.

Of course, how many people were killed in Vietnam.

And it made me know.

Herbert Herbert believed that because his birthday was April eighteenth, same day as the nineteen oh six earthquake that leveled San Francisco and the death day of Albert Einstein, that this made him the leader of his generation.

That's right, a birthday, one good birthday.

And as the leader, it was his job to make sure enough people to prevent the Big One from killing everyone.

So he had to begin murdering people for the good of mankind.

Before that, and I swear to God, classic cut and paste.

Before that, he had considered relocating to Canada.

We should have done that.

Then you have your murder for tomorrow.

Anything else tonight, I just do.

Herbert Mullen up there.

So it turns out Herbert Mullen hates maple syrup, all right.

So it starts on October thirteenth, nineteen seventy two.

Herbert Mullen is twenty four years old.

He drives home to visit his parents.

Oh, in Felton, California.

Sorry not Fenton, I said Fenton.

It's Felton.

My apologies to the mayor and the comptroller.

So if you don't know, Felton is this tiny town.

It's north of Santa Cruz on the nine.

It's right in those like right, give it up for the Nine, everybody, one of the better small highways of California.

There's redwoods everywhere.

It's actually Georgia's okay, it's so gorge.

Perfect place to put a body of it, that's right.

It's also where I went to camp.

Oh my gosh, so yeah.

P St.

Andrews Children's Live Bodies at a camp.

I mean wait for it, Okay.

So as he's uh driving down he's going back to visit his parents, and he uh later tells police that this is when he received a telepathic message from his father saying, Herb, I want you to kill me somebody so you don't listen to your parents all your life, and this is when you're gonna fucking start listening to your Come.

On, Herb.

It's drinking a ham beer at a Ham's beer at home, and like.

I don't fucking didn't.

I didn't do it bring me into this shit, okay.

So Herbert Mullen's seat as he's driving on the nine, he sees a homeless man named Lawrence White who is on the side of the road.

So what he does is he pulls over and he lifts the hood of his car, feigning car trouble, and when the man comes over to ask if he needs any help, Herbert Mullen bludgeons him to death with a baseball bat and leaves his body where it lays, and that man is found a few days later.

A few days later on the side of the road.

Yeah, because it's like way up in Forrest lamp.

Yeah, remote, So less than two weeks later, it gets worse, as should I sing the song again?

So much worse and it really no thank you, I oh thank you, But also it really does so two weeks later, Herbert picked up a hitchhiker named Mary Gilfoyle, who is a student at UC Santa Cruz.

Don't cheer for it, he's because listen to this, he's in the heart in his car.

Then he brought her body into the woods near the roadside.

He cut her open, he hanged her intestines from tree branches, and he examined them for pollution.

Yes, for fuck's sake, her remains weren't found for several months, and when they were discovered, the police assumed that this murder was the work of Edmund Kemper, because you know, they weren't like, oh, it could be another fucking serial killer in Santa Cruz.

You know that other one.

Yeah, why don't you guys just go on that roller coaster down by the sea and relax, all right?

So Mary Gilfoyle's murder haunted Mullins so to the point where on November two, All Soul's Day, he walked into Las Gatis Catholic Church.

He took confession with Father Henry Thompsy, and he confessed everything.

He talked about these murders in detail.

But then when he was done, a voice told him that this priest was offering himself up as a sacrifice.

How many times I have to warn you?

So Mullen stabbed Father Thompsy to death in the confessional and then walked out of a church.

But then, how do we know that he said all that to him?

Sorry, how do we know that he confessed all that to him?

Then he told the police everything?

Oh I get the other way, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he probably told his own story at the end of this insant.

Okay.

So then he tries to enlist in the Marine Corps, the natural next step.

Uh, And though he did pass both the physical and psychiatric exams, Yeah, he was rejected when they brought up his arrest record and saw his history of bizarre behavior.

Also he was color blind.

But otherwise you're fine, and that's fine.

What flat feet get out of here.

He later claimed that he never would have become a serial killer if he had just been accepted into the Marines.

You've already killed three fucking people, Dade.

It's kind of a fake excuse you have to admit.

Maybe.

So this rejection affects him a lot, to the point where he stops taking massive amounts of ascid every day, but his severe violent paranoid schizophrenia is out of control, totally untreated.

He believes that this rejection from the Marines is just another example of the conspiracy against him in his life.

He also accuses his parents of participating in his conspiracy.

He accuses them of being quote killed joy reincard nationalists, which is not a real thing, who believed their next lives would be more enjoyable if they made the current lives of others miserable.

Man, can you imagine just being a parent and you're like, I want to have babies too, I love you, and then you just have this fucking asshole.

Yeah, you're just you're just birth an asshole out onto the fucking table.

Man.

Tough, But also it's kind of funny because then also then I just think of, like when you're thirteen, it's just kind of just a teenage mentality of like my parents live to make everyone else's lives awful.

Reincarnationist fucking reincarnationalists.

Right, So swept up in his paranoid delusions, Mullen decides to kill Jim Gennara, his high school pot dealer.

Oh, it's a weird choice.

It doesn't work that way, herberts.

He believes that because Jim's so old him pot, that he was part of the plot to destroy his mind and that he had to avenge himself.

Guy's like, I fucking sold your regano.

Dude like, yeah, I have it.

What was Also, why isn't it ever your fault?

Herb?

Why isn't it on you ever?

All right?

So, around the same time, a voice told Mullen to buy a gun because it would be a cleaner way of killing people.

On January twenty fifth, nineteen seventy three, Herbert Mullen drove to Jim Jennara's house, or where Jim Jennara lived when they were in high school.

When he got there, he met current resident Kathy Francis Uh, and she explained that Gennara didn't live there anymore.

Herbert explained that he was a friend of Jim's, and so Kathy gave Jim gave Mullen Jim's new address UH.

That night, Mullen drove to the Gennara's new home and shot and killed Jim Jennara and his wife Joan, and then dabbed them both repeatedly post mortem.

Yeah.

He then went back and murdered Kathy Francis.

Then she got away and her two young sons.

Fuck man, guys, it's in the name my favorite murder.

You know what I mean, oh, ma'am.

Because both Jim Genara and Kathy Francis' husband had dealt drugs at one time, the police assumed that both of the murders, being the samem O, had to be drug related.

Please.

Less than two weeks later, Mullen saw four teenage boys camping and Henry Cowell Redwood State Park.

You've been there?

Oh yeah, In fact, I didn't have time to look it up, but that might be where we went to camp.

I'm not kidding serious.

Well, there's a bunch of state parks, but I would like it to be.

These boys were David Ola eighteen, Robert Specter eighteen, Brian Card nineteen, and Mark Drabelbiss fifteen.

Mullens approached them, posing as a park ranger and told them to leave, claiming that they were polluting the park.

Oh fucking hippies.

When the boys dismissed him, He pulled the gun, shot them all one by one.

He stole a rifle from that campsite, and then he left.

Herbert Mullen's final murder took place on February thirteenth, nineteen seventy three.

Holy fuck, seventy three year old Fred Perez was gardening in his front yard.

Mullen drove by and shot him with the rifle that he stole from that campsite.

Luckily, a neighbor witnessed the whole thing, wrote down Mullen's license plate number, called the police, and Herbert Mullen was arrested shortly thereafter with no incident.

It is a nice feeling, isn't it.

Yeah, they got him and he was arrested without incident.

He was just like, yep, all right, we're done here.

But then they get to the police station.

This is kind of my favorite part.

Okay, they get to the police station and Mullen was totally uncooperative.

His response to every question the police asked was silence, which you have to admit, would be kind of fun if you got arrested.

Yeah, then police were like, where were you on that silence?

I'm gonna try it next time I got arrested, I think, or really anytime.

I mean, you're welcome to thank you.

So uh.

When Edmund Kemper, the co ed killer, was arrested, he and Mullen were briefly held in adjoining cells.

Santa Cruz besties, s Anna Cruz best friends, Kaylen all around the blood brothers.

Through the fake gag, keep it up, keep it up, you fucking psycho.

Kemper actually accused Mullen of stealing his dump sites, which is, hey, no, that you'd relax.

He didn't even use dump sites, you fucking it.

There's enough for everyone.

Eventually, Herbert Mullen confessed to all thirteen murders, explaining to police that these human sacrifices were necessary for earthquake prevention.

Only you can prevent forest fires, he said to the police, and then he yelled silence.

Is that how they came up with the only you can prevent forest f Oh?

Did you know that?

What he looked a little bit like a bear, and they were like hold on.

And he was naked on the waist now with a hat on.

Really deep voice.

He also claimed that he had telepathically asked those four boys at the campsite if he could kill them and that they'd all given him permission.

At least two of them would have been like fuck.

You know, yeah, that's that's when the police began to beat him senseless really, and it's not on the internet anywhere, but we can pretty much be assured.

In the end, Mullen was found guilty of two counts of first dree murder because they proved that Kathy Francis and Jim Jannara's murders were premeditated, but everything else they could not prove that.

Also because he was so insane, so he had eight counts of second dragree murder.

He was sentenced to life in prison.

He will be eligible for all for parole in twenty twenty one, when he is seventy four years old.

No, I doubt it'll work.

I doubt it'll work out, probably not, you know.

Yeah, that's it.

That's all pretty good bye it.

Listen, don't go off your meds everyone, No, I don't care what the fuck inspector of your dad is telling you.

Yeah, don't go off your meds.

Yeah, if you hear voices, and I mean like even if there's someone standing behind you in lie talking, get on those meds.

Yep, I agree, back, I agree, okay, and we're back, Karen.

Any updates.

Yes, So Herbert Mullen was never granted parole.

He died in prison of natural causes in twenty twenty two.

So since I told the story of Herbert Mullen, there have been several either new or expanded mental health facilities that have opened in California.

One in Madera and then one in Santa Rosa, which is the big town near Petaluma.

There's Sacramento Glendora, which is obviously all great, we need those kinds of facilities, except for that they're for profit.

So some of these new facilities have been linked to serious problems like understaffing, patient neglect, and even abuse and death.

So awful, it's an oversight issue.

In twenty twenty three, voters approved billions in funding to expand behavioral health infrastructure.

But if we don't have stricter regulation, then those problems are They're just going to keep making things unsafe until all of that stuff gets seriously regulated.

So while there's technically more mental health care now, it's a mixed bag because it doesn't mean better care.

I mean, you can't help but think about the fact that it's like, if it's for profit, why would they want people to get better?

You know, like if the bed is filled, that's good, that's a positive that like doesn't that doesn't equate getting treatment, right right, So yes, that's.

Just never going to happen.

It's never going to happen in that where you're putting the goal way behind.

The financial gain will always be fucked totally.

But you know, it seems like such an old argument when we're literally building concentrates camps in this country.

This would be a great argument to have if someone else was in the office, But none of it now matters.

This is all mute.

This is all a moot point because we.

Should put on mute.

That's mute the shit out of it, the only thing and that lately, especially with how egregious and insane everything is getting, it makes me go like it almost makes me feel like everybody's going to be able to come together or at least a larger percentage than could before, to say, hey, what we need is oversight regulation.

Yeah, yeah, no, I'm serious.

Yes, I hope, so, I hope.

So we'll see if you have that opportunity.

That's taken away from us too.

Hey, you know, we did have an opportunity for though a.

Hometown that at this live show.

Chloe came and she talked about the very upsetting Tara Linda barbecue murders.

I think we have time to do a hometown murder so too.

Now here's the cool art.

We know who we're gonna pick.

Yeah, because her name is Chloe.

Yeah, Chloe, where are you?

No?

Oh, she was fucking lying, she was fucking with Is there any way to bring these lights up a little bit?

Chloe?

You said you were going to be at the back of the orchestra pit.

That's what this is, I think, right, I hear her?

You, Chloe, do you know what an orchestra pit is?

Because if you're yelling from anywhere that's not here.

Did we forget to tell thee we're going to have someone from.

The you're from oaksh Ah.

There she is.

The chair them, can you yeah?

Yeah, go over there, Look over there.

Look at that girl in the plaid shirt.

Chloe, listen to my voice.

See that girl that's waving her arms.

Go to her.

Jesus Christ, we werehearsed this fifteen times.

Oh, that poor if she wasn't nervous before.

Now we really built it up.

Now I'm mad at her.

Get out here.

God damn it.

These people are waiting.

Yeah, yeah, okay, you're fine.

It's fine.

Yeah, so am.

I looks that's Georgia.

That's Georgia.

That's Chloe.

I love you?

Are you really, Chloe?

Yes?

I am.

Okay, Chloe tweeted at us.

It's fine.

I just signed up for Twitter yesterday.

Let's get her some fowers.

What's your handle?

You know, what's your handle?

We'll get you some follie Chloe Doors, it's my name.

Oh that's adorable.

There's a couple.

Moly.

There she goes, she's gonna have these two thousand followers by tomorrow.

Here, So let's center up.

Let's send it up.

Closet me.

This is real, So let's get a nice stage picture in the middle.

I can't see any of you.

Yeah right, just don't look at them.

Okay, you have a hometown murder for us, you really?

Yeah?

I can't do this, Okay, all right, I got it, read it all right?

I mean we wish you would have memorized it.

That's what we do, just wing it.

Yeah, I'd like to pull a Van Morrison and just face it the back of the stage and try.

Now that's bass.

Yes, Rady, you here, make dare in my back while I tell you this.

We can all do it.

Okay, wait, let's really quick.

Okay, where are you from?

I'm from Fairfax.

They love Fairfacts.

Tiny tiny town, immorand not far from Pedaluma.

That's what are you here with?

This is why I tweeted you Avidly?

Okay, fair Facts?

Anyway, here are you here with?

I'm here with my husband Luke and my good friend Katie.

I can't see you, guys.

It's fine.

Ye see you guys tomorrow.

I'm gonna hang out with Karen and Georgia tonight.

She's not.

We all got kick.

Oh it's okay.

So let's hear this hometown story.

Is this a Fairfax murder?

No, it's very close.

Tarlnda.

Okay, it's Tara Linda.

Yes, super creepy.

This is called the Barbecue Murders.

I'm not fucking with you.

I wrote it down terrified right now, just read it.

Tarlinda is like a weird suburban colony of San Rafel.

It's not a town, it's where the mall is.

That's where you go to go to the mall.

That's right, it's eerie.

It's super weird there.

So I'm just gonna read because I will start talking and barfing all over it.

It'd be kind of cool.

We're super punk rock like that I was.

I was born in nineteen eighty two, so clearly this is not about you.

So it was a rainy day in October.

This is There's this thing about troylanda.

It just feels like it was stuck in the eighties.

It's like, you go there to go to the mall and it's the eighties and it's creepy.

And there's a kaiser up on the hill.

Kaiser a mall, that's all that there is there, Yeah, and a bun and a bunch of track housing and like a sizzler.

Yeah.

I used to get my allergy shots at that kaiser three times a week.

You really, yeah?

Yeah.

Anyway, this really horrible double murder happened there in nineteen seventy five.

Okay, here come my notes, let's hear.

Them by a sixteen year old girl named Marlene Olive and her fucking loser boyfriend named Chuck.

Yeah, he was twenty.

She was sixteen.

And he was twenty and wed.

The seventies, every twenty year old in the seventies was named Chuck.

And yeah, this is the guy that sold drugs to the high school kids, not for money, but.

To be cool.

Yeah.

Remember you just theoriz I got that off Wikipedia.

You know, girl, you know?

Okay.

Anyway, they started dating, and Marlene was really troubled, and she was adopted and she found out when she was really young that she was adopted on accident, So she was all kinds of fucked up and.

She wasn't adopted on accident, she was adopted, and she found out she found out gasped.

Like clarification, we have a kid, noawed, No, we have the keeper.

Oh I got the wrong in the wrong luggage at the airport.

Oh well wow.

Uh.

She had a great relationship with her adoptive father, but her adoptive mother was a schizophrenic alcoholic who was psychotic and was really mean to her and basically told her that her birth mom was a prostitute she was going to be one too, and all the stuff that makes you fucked up, I mean, yes, none, And then young Marlene yelled back sex.

Worker exactly.

Exactly.

It was the seventies.

It was the seventies, and needless to say, it was the seventies, Marlene got super into the occult oh yeah, not real and doing.

Lots of drugs, and.

She hated her mom obviously because she was crazy and superman.

And she decided that her parents had to die.

And she also decided that her loser boyfriend had to.

Be the one to kill them.

Oh that's a good call.

Actually, your hands cleaned, Marlene, right, I mean.

You get a sixty.

Not so dumb.

Anyway, she had all the control in the relationship, obviously, because he agreed to do it.

So one day she leaves the house with her dad, and Chuck sneaks in and kills Naomi, her mom, with a hammer.

And a knife and some other stuff.

And then and then Marlene's dad, Jim, comes home, finds Chuck, and uh, Chuck shoots him as well.

So both parents are dead.

Oh no, So.

Chuck and Marlene clean up the place and take the bodies to this beautiful state park in Santa Fel called China Camp.

China Camp.

Yeah, I've had a Mickey's big mouth or two there myself.

Like gorgeous, gorgeous.

I can't go there ever again.

And also just the FYI, the barbecue hit that they set the parents on fire and has been removed.

Oh, don't try to find it.

Yeah, don't worry about it.

You're like, why does this hence the barbecue?

Yeah, so they began set mom and dad on fire.

Went home kind of right after they did that, because like logic.

Left them burn.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, And then they went to go live in the olives home for about three days.

The plan was to wait until the parents were pronounced dead and they collected the life insurance and then they could go move to Ecuador, so simple live their lives.

I can't imagine that plan didn't involve a joint.

At some point, apparently they went to a yes concert, God, do not blame during time.

Do not blame that.

I don't.

I don't even Anyway, they were caught, of course, because they're idiots.

He's in prison for life.

She went to some juvenile something she was fifteen or sixteen.

Uh.

She was released after two years, moved to La became some superstar in.

The like forgery.

She did a lot of forgery.

Oh yeah, and you.

Now that's where we're going.

She's a superstar.

Don't say anything.

Similarities their uncanny uncanny we all have past.

I quickly have two connections to this murder, besides just being a super weird kid and totally obsessed with this at the age of ten.

Then there I made my mom drive me to the house that happened, so I.

Yes, and your mom did it?

Yes.

She was like, secretly, I think, kind of into it, but she was like, this.

Is weird, Like everyone says that she was.

She was into it.

We drove by.

But the really creepy thing is that when I was thirteen, I started babysitting for a family about a block away from that house, and it's all tracked housing there, so all the houses are the same.

In the best selling true crime book by Richard Levine about this story called Bad Blood, a Marine County family murder.

Oh so there's a colon at the end of Blood, Okay, he draws a layout of the home where both of these parents are murdered, and it's exactly the same as the house that I used to babysit in.

And I was just remembering thirteen and like putting these kids down and walking around and being like.

This is where this happened.

I'm scintillated and excited and terrified pretty much everything I'm feeling right now, I'm done.

I'm everybody nice, beautifully done, so.

Good, really good from a tweet we trusted the tweet fly.

I mean you just tell her to go with what's that?

Nothing?

That was magical?

Yeah.

I love when that happens and it's not like some weird person.

I know it never is, no, I mean twice, Yeah, it's true.

That is true.

I just like that.

If we didn't, if we were just like, forget it, we're not going to do that, and then she would have had that little folded up piece of paper in her pocket.

But that's not what happened.

Everybody, It's like it's someone else now.

Here.

I'm going to pretend like it was your story.

Georgia.

Do you have any updates for Chloe's case?

Oh my gosh, Karen, Well, no updates, but we do have a corrections corner corner.

During the show, Chloe stated that Charles Riley was in prison for life.

In fact, Riley was originally granted parole in twenty fourteen, nearly forty years after his conviction for the nineteen seventy five double murder of Naomi and Jim Olive.

The parole board cited his decades of model behavior, completion of rehabilitation programs, and expressed remorse.

Psychological evaluations concluded he posed a low risk of reoffending.

Governor Jerry Brown reversed the decision in twenty fourteen, but a state appeals court overturned that reversal in twenty fifteen, allowing Riley to be released at the age of fifty nine.

Which, I mean, the whole point is rehabilitation, right completely.

I mean, if he had to pass all of those tests and they're like, yep, we're putting him through every possible stress test and he's passing, Yes, let him out because he was a very young man when this happened.

Yeah, what you do in you're twenty Like yeah, now he's sixty.

Yeah, but you know that doesn't help the victims' families.

It's just such a hard it's a hard discussion to have.

Because it's just impossible to get to a period about it.

Completely, and there's such the losses so great that it kind of doesn't matter.

On the other side, when you start talking about the offender, it's again it's like all that kind of extraneous, like, well, that's a nice idea.

Meanwhile, our loved ones are dead totally.

Yeah, all right, well, maybe we'll say hi to Chloe when we're back in Oakland at the Paramount Theater on October second and third of this year, twenty twenty five.

Our lord, nice plug.

Thanks.

Yeah, I think at the time of this recording, tickets are still available.

Okay, we should talk about titles.

Obviously, as we bragged, this episode was originally titled Live at the Fox Theater.

That's right, But if we were naming it today based on something that was said during the episode.

Maybe it would be pockets.

Pockets, Pockets.

I think it was so satisfying, how much like the sale response, how much people agree with us and we agree with them that pockets up for women's clothes are a necessity.

A worth of standing ovation, Like, That's one of the many things I've learned during this podcast.

The biggest surprises of this podcast is that people will cheer a dress with pockets, and that makes me like kind of feel okay about.

The human race.

You know.

Yes, I think we are doing okay, and I think them playing along with our let's show off our outfits like we're five years old, is like, this is one of the first times we did that, and it made it so fun.

We we're like, oh, yeah, this is just it's all the gals together.

Yeah, especially when I did a twirl when we were in Texas and showed everyone my underwear on accident.

Yeah, remember when you broke the back out of that one dress just for fun as my I think that might be my favorite tour Malia.

I thought about that while I was trying on dresses today because there were a couple that were like, this fits quote, but like there's not a room for a breath.

You know, But I think that's when you're on the edge there.

Yeah, still loves that tension.

Like you can't sit comfortably, but what's it's a live show, why would you.

No, No one's comfortable Georgia.

Also, the title could be sounds like our government.

Oh it's just it never stops.

Uh was talking about Lauren Herzog's tattoos during her story and said that line that's always applicable apparently.

Sounds like our government.

And of course Chloe's classic.

We could call it pulla Van Morrison.

I mean, such a good joke.

We must so genius.

Well that's a live show.

Rewind.

Thank you guys for listening.

We'll let the Karen and Georgia from then and there at the Fox Theater say goodbye for us.

Yes, oh really, Stephen offered to drive up from Los Angeles to bring my passport.

Oh my okay, I gotta tell you what.

Ever, since Steven has been promoted from just like the guy that records our podcast so we don't have to like move the dials and stuff, we were like, Stephen, you please help us with these emails and he's like, Okay, I totally will.

He's completely organized all of our hometown murder emails.

But now he's turned into like the super assistant, where like like what did he say?

He was like, are you gonna text to it?

Yes?

He was like, Hey, I just want to let you know you're on you Wator hotel and they have a printer so if you need to print out your story that it's there.

And I'm like, no, I'm hotels work, Stephen.

It was like calling hotels, Yes, I need to speak to the business center.

Do you have papers?

She likes this kind of grain.

Don't look her in the eye when she goes into the business center.

I actually didn't print it up there and I was going to send her to them, but it said speed Freak Killers the name of the documents.

I was like, I'm gonna print it at the venue.

Just a little paperwork from a job.

Yeah.

Oh yes.

Hi to Stephen Ray Morris for being an angel baby even Ray Morris.

Yeah you know who else is the best?

To the Fox Theater in Oakland, California.

Thank you guys so much and you are so much.

This is amazing.

We love you for coming here.

Thank you, we love you for getting tickets and they fucking being a part of our world.

First night of our tour, Yeah.

First night, you know what, stay sexy and joke get

Bye wo