Whether you're a recreational exerciser or an athlete, we want to talk about all of the things that we go through as females going into this motherhood journey.

We're going to talk about fertility, pregnancy, and postpartum topics that are relevant to the active individual.

While I am a pelvic floor physical therapist, I am not your pelvic floor physical therapist and know that this podcast does not substitute medical advice.

All right, come along for this journey with us while we navigate motherhood together.

And I can't wait to get started.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Bar Bal Mamas podcast.

Christina Previtt here, and today we are going to be going through a bunch more.

This is our part two in our postpartum Reddit responses.

And a lot of our questions are going to be specifically around return to sports in the postpartum period.

When I am looking through some of these Reddit threads, there's some common themes that are coming up around kind of uncertainty of when and how to return, this shock and feeling of concern or uncertainty around how their bodies feel postpartum, and kind of this lack of awareness or a lack of understanding of where to go for information on return to sport.

And it's interesting coming from the research perspective and the clinical perspective, because as a physical therapist, as you're going to hear me say, there's going to be a lot of it depends.

And I think that's where it's really hard when seeking information online around what to do and how to do it postpartum, because there is so much individualization that is required.

What I hope that you guys are all going to get out of this episode is we may not be able to give you, like, you're going to do this by this week or this by this week, because that really is going to really be an individual conversation.

But what I want to try and portray in this episode is to give you the buoys so that you can listen to your own body and you can figure out your own timelines.

So the first um question or comment was getting back into sports postpartum.

I'm just over two months postpartum with my first child.

Before getting pregnant, I was weightlifting twice a week, walking every day, and playing soccer two days a week.

Then pregnancy pains had me not working out as much.

Today I played in my first soccer game and it broke my heart.

I knew I'd be slow, but damn, I didn't feel like myself at all.

I've always been a great sprinter.

My first attempt, I was almost falling the whole time.

I know two months postpartum is unrealistic to feel 100%, but it broke my heart to feel so unlike me with something I've been so excited for for almost a year.

Soccer has always been my safe space and where I felt most like myself and confident, but today I just felt embarrassed.

So there's not really anything to respond from a question here, but I wanted to start here because this is a very vulnerable post.

And I really give kudos to the author because there's gonna be so many people who are gonna say, Well, you just had a baby, like give yourself some grace and you know, be um be okay with with the timelines, and that's that's pretty good advice.

And I feel in my soul the emotions that this poster is feeling.

I remember when I was pregnant with my first, I was a national level weightlifter.

I stopped snatching about halfway through my pregnancy because I just didn't want to mess up my bar path from a performance perspective.

I wanted to make sure I came back.

And I remember just being so excited to have that barbell in my hands.

And my first snatch overhead, I was like, oh my gosh, it's like this like this incredible, exciting experience that I was just so jazzed about.

But then as I put even the slightest amount of weight on the bar, I remember feeling like what happened to my core, what happened to my trunk.

I don't know where I am in space.

I feel so awkward and uncomfortable.

This doesn't feel like it's my body.

And while I had this excitement about being back under the barbell, I also felt like shit.

I didn't realize how far I was gonna have to go.

If this poster was my friend, I'm not even gonna say my patient because I I want to speak to them as if they're my friend.

What I would say to them is that yes, your body has been through a lot.

Your body has been through a lot.

And when you have an injury, if you've had an injury in soccer in the past, it can also be so frustrating that you want to feel differently within your body and you are not there yet.

It is okay to have all of those feelings.

Pregnancy happens slow, becoming postpartum happens quickly.

And not only do you have to heal from birth, but your body kind of has to recalibrate to where it is now in space without that big baby in front of your body, meaning that as you come back and sprint for the first time, your body is gonna have to almost like refigure out its motor patterns.

And so you're still there in your healing process.

I promise you, from a motor learning perspective, it will come back.

And I can sit with you in those emotions, and I totally understand where you are coming from that you waited so long, and even eight weeks postpartum, that is a long time.

It isn't in the grand scheme of life, but months of being away from some something that you love and something that's a safe space does feel like eternity when it's such a part of who you are and such a part of your identity.

And so I hope that I know that you felt embarrassed, but I guarantee you every woman on that field was like, what a badass she is.

She just had a baby.

Wow, it's so cool to see that she is back on the field with us, and they were not thinking that you sucked or that you were so underprepared, or or whatever is kind of the thought process that is going through your mind.

It is so easy to compare to our pre-pregnant self and our athleticism.

And it's okay to do that, but also it's a really good idea to acknowledge that there's a lot of things that have changed, not only within your own body, but within your life now that you're a parent, that you know, you're not sleeping, you're nursing, you're figuring out momhood, maybe you're on maternity leave, maybe you're trying to figure out return to work.

Like, there's just so many things that have changed now.

And I'm just really proud of you that you were able to get back on that field.

And even though you're not where you're wanting to be, you are starting back on that journey.

And I think that's so cool.

Okay.

Crossfit after baby.

People who have birthed humans or know someone who has, how long did you wait after having baby to get back into CrossFit workouts?

Did you go back at um after you were cleared?

Any recommendations or advice?

How did you know you were ready?

I'm four weeks postpartum and I've been doing lots of walks, but I feel ready to start some light rowing and maybe some upper body stuff.

Okay.

I am gonna go into this question with the assumption that there was no complications, that she is ready, willing, and wanting to go back in.

And I'm gonna talk about some of my clients who are in that space.

I have a lot of CrossFitters that I work with.

Almost all, but or I would say at least the majority uh are wanting to get back into the gym before six weeks.

A good chunk of them are going to be back before six weeks on my caseload with me kind of following along beside them.

So this would be kind of a really good outcome for some of my CrossFit moms and kind of how I approach this if you were my patient.

When I am seeing somebody in pregnancy, that is my best case scenario.

I get to follow you along your pregnancy.

We get to make adjustments as necessary.

I see you on a consultation basis, usually start seeing you kind of semi-regularly, about halfway through your pregnancy, where we're taking a look if there's anything going on from a pelvic or a pain perspective.

And then also being able to do a check in on is there anything that we need to modify in your training?

Are you feeling good with all your different modalities, right?

Your cardio, running, jumping, gymnastics, rigs, and barbell work, right?

We kind of go through those four domains together, make sure everything's feeling good.

I give an option, say, hey, if this doesn't feel good because you are feeling heaviness or pain, belly button strain, whatever it may be, here's your modification.

So you are leaving my office saying, okay, I feel good in these domains.

If I start to not feel good in these domains before I see Christina again, this is my step.

As you get closer to birth, we start talking, especially if you are lifting heavy, about I shouldn't say especially if you're lifting heavy, because I talk about this with everybody, but I put a particular emphasis with my lifters about learning how to valva or closed glottis brace, closed the pelvic floor, and then how to differentiate that from our closed glottis pushing that happens when we're giving birth.

We start talking about positions and birth planning, etc.

Then we book an appointment for two to three weeks postpartum.

In that first visit, what we are going through is your birth.

What happened, how you're feeling, how your early recovery is going, understanding your experience, letting any of those emotions that you had with birth kind of go through if you're disappointed about anything with your birth, if you think things went well, things didn't go well.

We kind of unpack a lot of that.

I may do a vulver check, um, especially if you're not being followed by midwifery.

Midwifery tends to do a bit more vulver checks in their early postpartum protocols.

See if there's any lumps, bumps, retained stitches, or issues that may be happening in that early postpartum period.

I answer any questions that are usually around is this normal?

Should I be feeling this?

I feel like this.

What does that symptom tell me?

We kind of go through all that in your first postpartum visit.

Then I get everybody started on some sort of early postpartum exercise rehab program.

That's usually working on kind of re-establishing bracing and core strengthening.

We start doing some pelvic floor muscle training.

And usually, if everything is good, I give the all clear for my crossfitters to start putting in bodyweight movements.

Many times they kind of put this into AMRAPS or some sort of intensity-based circuit.

So I give them the all-clear if everything is good for things like uh overhead pressing, um, with lightweight, 10 pounds, bodyweight squats, lunges, burpees with usually a lower impact option.

And I say if they want to put those things together, they want to hold on to baby, you know, you're still two or three weeks, that that's great, right?

Baby's probably 10, 12 pounds.

And that is kind of, we're starting that return to activity at the two to three week mark.

I give the buoy that, hey, if you experience a big increase in bleeding or you start to experience pelvic symptoms, I want you to pay attention to them.

You are not doomed to dysfunction, but it is something that we want to be thinking about as maybe a reason for further screening or further modification in that time period.

Then that's two, three weeks.

We give a couple of weeks, and then between four to six weeks, um, we start to, if everything is going well with that for the next week or two, then it gives us the opportunity to start clearing some things in a CrossFit gym.

So between four to six weeks is usually when I say, okay, the next time you come in, we're gonna put a barbell in your hands.

So baby plus car seat, we're probably already approaching at least that trading bar that's 15 pounds.

Oftentimes we're in that 15 kilo or 33 pound barbell.

And in that, we start going through movement mechanics, right?

We give uh impact options, low impact options.

We go into squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, see how body is feeling, give some buoys around weight based on how that's going.

Usually 35 to 55, 65 pounds is a good starting point.

And I get you hanging from the bar.

When we are doing some of the gymnastics space movements, right, then we kind of look at the kip swing, we see how your body is feeling postpartum.

A lot of times people feel a bit Bambi-like where they don't really know where their body is in the space yet, or it feels really weird getting up on the bar.

If somebody has taken away gymnastics, then they may feel like, oh my gosh, my shoulders are really tired, or my grip is really tired.

We kind of go through how that's a really normal process and how that grip, shoulder, strength, endurance, especially in combination with the fact that you're heavier postpartum expected change from pregnancy, um, may be your biggest limiting factor when it comes to return to gymnastics.

And we kind of start talking through some of those things.

With kind of that timeline, I have some moms who are going back into the gym.

And if they can sit on a seat because stitches are feeling okay, then rowing absolutely is fine, or getting on a C2 bike.

I give them the all cleared skiing, same thing, as long as they don't experience any increase in bleeding.

And what I have found is getting people into the gym with their community does wonders for somebody who is early postpartum.

Buoys of somebody who we may want to wait a little bit longer is somebody who says, I don't know if I can hold myself back early postpartum.

Like obviously, this is gonna be 1000% their decision.

Um, but I always try and give that conversation a good reflective moment around, hey, I want you to be back with your community.

You want to be back to your community.

We can absolutely get you back into the gym.

I'm gonna need you to put yourself on a bit of a uh kind of just be, I don't even know the word for it, like mindful of your intensity at the very beginning.

Um, trust me, I'm gonna let you send it for a little like on certain things, but I want to make sure that we're respecting where your body is from a healing process perspective and allow you to still kind of work within what you feel is good for you and kind of self-regulate based on how you're feeling.

And so if this was my client and they were saying I feel really good to go into the gym at four weeks, I would 1000% be on board with that.

Um, it's great now because I feel like there's a couple of gyms that kind of know me and my style.

Um, and so it is not surprising to them anymore.

Um, and they're totally on board when my clients are like three or four weeks postpartum and stepping back in the gym.

Oftentimes what they're doing is just removing weight from MetCon.

So they're at very low weight, low intensity.

They're doing some low impact uh variations to the movements that are higher impact, and then we're gradually choosing one or two domains to push intensity on, keeping the other aspects the same, and then kind of building in this stepwise progression from there based on how my client is feeling.

And, you know, I've had some clients who have had really complicated uh deliveries, like vacuum deliveries, higher degree tears who have still been able to get back into their gym communities relatively early, like before six weeks.

Um, that's not everybody, and you have to go with your timelines, and your timelines are not wrong, or you are not failing in your postpartum recovery if you're waiting eight, 10, 12, 16, 25 weeks to get back, it's that everybody's circumstances are different.

One of the things that is really great about the CrossFit community that can be helpful is that if you're back to work at four, five, six weeks postpartum, one of the things that's really tough is to take more time away from your baby when you're gone during the week or during the day, weekdays.

The one great thing about a lot of these small family gyms is that they are so great about allowing little ones to come into the gym, which can relieve some of that guilt for mom.

And I think that's so wonderful.

And I think it's just so necessary to be um finding some way to to move your body, whether that's going for a walk, whether that's doing some gym work, whatever that may be, um, in order to keep that that that sense of of community, if you know you can go walking with somebody or or whatever.

So um that's kind of what I like to do in clinical practice when I'm working with some people, and then obviously we kind of adjust based on individuals' experiences and what their desires are.

But if their desire is to get into the gym, I try and facilitate that as much as I can as a therapist.

All right.

Next question or thought is hey y'all, um, postpartum athletes, when does it get better?

So I'm about seven months postpartum.

Before pregnancy, I would consider myself a fairly competitive athlete.

I did well at local competitions, I had solid strength numbers, etc.

I was hoping by now my strength would be better than what it currently is.

For example, I did a one rep max clean today, and my old one rep max was 225 and I barely got 190 today.

So in terms of when does it get better, I would say that we are our toughest critic.

Um, if you think about this athlete, at seven months postpartum, 225 to 190, you are at about 89% of your previous one rep maxes.

And I think that's pretty incredible at seven months.

Um especially considering that you recovered from birth, that you are now not sleeping as well.

You have a little baby that you are trying to take care of.

Um and so like returning to 90% of your strength within six to seven months postpartum, being six to seven months postpartum, um, is pretty incredible.

Sometimes when I'm looking at the the comparisons, I can see that nine months in, nine months out can be a good buoy marker for somebody who is consistently in the gym and it is their goal or priority to get back to previous strength numbers.

I usually say nine to ten months is a pretty good estimate.

And then I give reasons why that may be plus or minus.

Some people, um, it's never their desire to get back up to pre-pregnancy numbers.

It was after my first, but it wasn't after my second.

Um, I got pretty close.

Um, I had a 215 clean and I got back up to 205 postpartum with Quinn.

Um so I got like 95-ish percent, um, which is great.

But um I think this is another one of those examples of us putting an intense amount of pressure on ourselves.

And also, I have this intense understanding of wanting that sense of self back and not wanting to let go of that athlete identity.

Um, so yeah, I would usually say nine months in, nine months out for a dedicated strength athlete who is still prioritizing uh strength development in the postpartum period.

That's something that they were looking for.

Um, and just understanding, too, that um there's a lot of things in that postpartum period that may make it difficult.

Um, like if baby's not sleeping, baby goes through a strength regression or a sleep regression, it may impact your strength.

Um the last thing that I would kind of put as a buoy there is that we don't have any evidence that nursing influences injury rate.

And we don't have any evidence that if you are nursing that you cannot gain strength.

Um, but if this person is nursing, what I have noticed clinically is that women feel more supported in their bodies and can sometimes feel stronger when they stop nursing.

This is not always the case, and I can only hypothesize why I'm seeing this clinically.

Um, but sometimes I have noticed people see a little bit of a jump in their strength when they kind of um cater off or when baby starts eating more and they're nursing less, or when they stop nursing.

So that could be something else that maybe um will tip her up her strength just a little bit more.

Not to say to not nurse, um, but as something to consider.

All right, the next two questions are around return to running.

And I'm gonna finish up this podcast talking about returning to running.

Um, so the first question was I'm four weeks postpartum and trying to get an idea of when I can start running again.

And then the second question, which is kind of along the same lines, is four moms out there who returned to running after having kids and how did you do it?

Specifically looking for advice on the following.

When did you start running again?

How did you start running again?

Frequency and miles, and how long until you felt normal again running and normal is an air quotes.

And again, this is really going into this theme of not feeling the same as you felt before pregnancy, feeling like you're kind of readjusting to this new body and having this desire to feel like you did preconception.

One of the responses in the comments that I feel like is a really important component to this conversation that I think can make this really confusing and make it really hard for moms to figure out their game plan.

Um, one of the responses was in my opinion, the risks outweigh the benefits of running early postpartum.

A good friend of mine is an elite runner.

She runs 80 to 100 miles a week and ended up with pelvic organ prolapse after her third birth.

She started running early-ish, and even have y'all clear from her old B, there was talk of hysterectomy, surgery, et cetera.

I believe she started running again around 10 weeks postpartum when this happened.

So you have this group of moms who love running.

We have no clarity around when and how individuals should return to running postpartum.

And then we hear the god-awful stories of this person returned to running and now they have this issue.

So I want to make something abundantly clear before we get into this conversation.

As of 2025, where we are at right now, we do not have evidence that what you did in pregnancy or how you returned to exercise postpartum was a mitigating factor for pelvic flora dysfunction.

What is most likely the case is if you had pelvic flora dysfunction prior to pregnancy.

So you had pelvic issues before pregnancy.

Plus, what happened in your labor and delivery room was the biggest predictive factors for how you are feeling and how you are returning to exercise with or without pelvic floor dysfunction in the postpartum period.

For example, this elite runner after her third birth, my guess is it was the three vaginal deliveries that caused the changes to her vaginal walls versus her returning to running early.

Right?

So having somebody who is an elite runner that 100 miles a week plus three births, and then counseling a human who's a recreational runner with her first delivery at four weeks postpartum and scaring the absolute shit out of her when that's incomplete and probably inaccurate as to what caused her pelvic organ prolapse, is what is wrong with social media and our story saliency that we see right now with health information online, right?

Stories sell things, stories sell narratives, they sell products, they sell fear.

Fear has a saliency effect in and of itself.

And it doesn't matter if somebody says, hey, that's actually not true, that story is still going to stick with you.

Whatever information you got first also tends to stick with you.

So if you the first thing you heard about return to running is that you shouldn't return to running until 16 weeks postpartum, because if you do, you could risk getting a pelvic organ prolapse.

Even if I come in and say, hey, like, you know, we actually don't have that evidence, it's gonna take a lot of repetitions of me saying that to you in order for that nickel of doubt to be extinguished.

And so it's so hard in 2025 to get nuanced health information.

I was just reading a paper that looked at um, it was in the International Eurogynacology Journal, and it was talking about what's to blame, preconception or intrapartum um risk factors for postpartum pelvic flora dysfunction.

And, you know, they did say that those individuals who are participating in vigorous intensity exercise and had pelvic flora dysfunction prior to pregnancy were likely to have pelvic flor dysfunction postpartum.

And that makes a lot of sense.

If there was something going on with your pelvic flor system prior to pregnancy, and then you put that system under strain and then injure, have an injury with labor and delivery, it is understandable that there could be some things that you would have to heal from.

And Maybe some more recovery that would be required.

And that's why this data is so important.

But what we do not have is a risk factor or a dose response or an understanding of if you return it four weeks postpartum, your risk of public floor dysfunction is this.

And if you return it this week postpartum, it's that.

Like we don't have that.

And so that is why our 2025 guidelines specifically state that it should be a personalized and individualized approach to return to exercise in the postpartum period.

And it is absolutely okay for you to return to running and resistance training prior to 12 weeks.

This is why it is so important to have the nuance be in the details.

And so when it comes to when you want to return, we know that individuals may experience pelvic floor dysfunction, especially postpartum while still healing, under high speed, high fatigue, and high load, right?

Because we are hitting a threshold where the urologital system is under a lot of strain.

That strain shows itself as pain, leakage, or heaviness.

And it is a sign of where our capacity threshold is.

If I have somebody who is returning to higher intensity exercise early postpartum, sometimes we're going to do some exploration of where those buoys exist.

And so if I have a person who is four weeks postpartum or six or eight or twelve, and they say, I really want to return to running.

And that may be my mental health cannot take being inside for another moment.

Fair, was there, and still there.

And we can explore if like running is that avenue that makes the most sense, right?

Higher impact versus something lower impact.

And then we're gonna explore strategies to get that human to be able to do the things that they want to do.

And that is how evidence-informed decision making occurs, right?

We understand where the state of the evidence is and specifically where it isn't.

Um, we take in the person's choice and preference, and then we take in my clinical experience so that I can learn from other cases, things that have gone well, things that have not.

And that is how we have an informed conversation so that you can make the choice that works best for you.

And I know that people are trying to be helpful.

I do, um, most of the time.

And so I understand where these things are coming from, but it's just it's heartbreaking to me around seeing things that just um creates a lot of damage.

Um, so then when it comes to when you get back, how do you get back?

I have anywhere between individuals who are four to five weeks postpartum to individuals who are 12 weeks postpartum for those who are recreational runners or athletic or um athletes who do uh race races, the four to 12 weeks is usually when people start.

Now, where you sit in there usually um is dictated by what supports do you have at home, what did your labor and delivery look like, and how much of a runner or how strongly do you identify with being a runner?

So if you had a less complicated labor and delivery, you have stronger supports at home and you freaking love running, you're probably going to be closer to the four-week mark.

Um, if you are a person who does not have a ton of social support or family around, you had a higher degree tear or a more traumatic birth, or you are somebody who like kind of likes running but likes doing other types of exercise too, you're probably gonna be a little bit later.

So hopefully that gives a bit of buoys.

In terms of mileage, return, etc., I advocate for time-based interval work when you are initiating your return to run.

What I mean by that is that I am getting you to try some sort of walk-run interval.

Um, usually I get people to try somewhere between one and three minutes of running with a one-to-one rest to trial out how their pelvis is feeling.

When they are returning to running, I'm getting them to feel for any pain, leakage, or issue that they are feeling while they are running.

And I always kind of underdose or am conservative.

So I'll get them to do two minutes of jogging, two minutes of walking, do five intervals of that.

So it's 20 minutes total, but 10 minutes of running and see how you feel because some people may feel good in the moment and then they kind of have a bit of um achiness or heaviness as a rebound.

Again, you're not doing anything wrong with that, but your body needs to heal and adapt to that new running stimulus.

And so something to be trialing, and then we work on building your intervals, we build your uh time running to walking, we adjust some of those things, and then we get you continuously running.

And for some people, they get to continuous running within a week or two, and we only have to do a couple of trial runs and they're feeling pretty good.

For others, we're doing walk run intervals for a lot longer and we are dealing or rehabbing things that come up as they are returning.

Another thing that I'm going to be a very strong advocate for early postpartum or in general with individuals that have pelvic issues with running is to do effortful strength training at home, right?

I can torture glutes with baby in your arms in five to 10 minutes to give you enough stimulus to start putting um some strength back around your hips and some single leg specific strength as well.

So I try and get people to do heavier lifting, like deadlifting and squatting, but particularly with my monostructural uh endurance athletes, my runners in particular, I'm getting them to do a lot of heavier loaded single leg work as well.

Stegger stance deadlift and some sort of lunge variation, as well as some sort of monster walk or resisted walking variation, are my three go-tos when it comes to strengthening around the hips and pelvis as you are working on your return to run postpartum.

And so I say to you, I kind of have a whole spiel of like as you return to running, um, your strength around your hips needs to match your demand.

And it is going to be a lot smoother for you returning to running if you have that strength in the tank as you are in that return to run postpartum period.

When it comes to running as well, that is where so many conversations around fueling and impact tolerance come into this conversation.

So, as you can see, this is not something that it's an easy of.

I did this minutes of running, this minutes of rest, and then kind of follow that protocol.

Um, because if you're under fueling, it can make it harder for you to recover, your performance will suffer, and you're more likely to have urinary incontinence and other injuries of the lower extremity with return to running.

And then um, when it comes to impact tolerance, it really does like what your work to run intervals look like, depend on when you removed impact during your pregnancy.

What I mean by that is if you stopped running at about 14 weeks pregnant, um, then you had and you delivered at 40 weeks, then you had 26 weeks in pregnancy and then six weeks postpartum potentially, that's 32 weeks of no impact to your shins, your ankles, your knees.

And so some of our data is showing how um, yes, we have to be aware and clear the pelvic floor, but there's a lot of lower extremity muscoscatal impact tolerance injuries or overuse injuries that can happen when moms start to progress into running too fast.

Shin splints are like a really easy example of something that happens often in postpartum return to running, especially if you're roadrunning.

And so those are things to consider, all things to consider with return to running.

Um and sometimes it's just a bit of a trial and error.

Like ideally, you have somebody who's kind of comfortable in the postpartum return to run space that can help guide you.

Um, but um also that can be really difficult from an expense perspective, from a resource perspective.

And so hopefully this give you a couple of buoys.

And as I am talking uh through this, I feel like I need another episode on return to running postpartum specifically to kind of really map out that framework for you all because it is kind of nuanced, but there is a framework at play, or at least one that I've created in my own mind with my own clinical practice.

And so um I'm gonna put that in the back of my mind to um to share that with you all in the near future.

All right, that kind of concludes our current Reddit series in the postpartum period.

I hope you guys found that helpful.

I had a lot of positive feedback from you all about this.

I'm gonna finish off this podcast by just saying an absolutely massive thank you.

Um, this podcast just passed 75,000 downloads.

I think it was like last week.

And I have to tell you that this podcast is like the favorite thing I do in my week because I just really love kind of getting into the nitty-gritty, sharing this research with you all, being able to kind of um talk long form through different considerations.

And when you all message me and you say that this podcast was helpful for you to make decisions that work for you, I cannot lie, um, tears come to my eyes almost every single time.

Um, because that was my goal with this, is that I really wanted to get into the weeds so that you had the information to make the decision that worked the best for you.

And so I am just so glad to um to have touched some of you.

And thank you all to everybody who listens to our episodes and hears me ramble because I am just so appreciative to each and every one of you.

So I hope you all have a wonderful week and I will talk to you all next time.