1 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,559 [MUSIC] 2 01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,639 From the classroom to the wilderness, 3 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:12,679 my guest built a life around exploring 4 01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:13,840 the connections between 5 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:15,880 science, art, and education. 6 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:17,960 Welcome to this episode 7 01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:18,920 of All of Your Stories. 8 01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:21,440 I'm your host, Hava Gurvitch, and my 9 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,239 guest today is Rosalind Phillips, 10 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,519 a teacher, scientist, software engineer, 11 01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:28,199 and accomplished nature photographer. 12 01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:31,280 Rosalind has spent her life exploring the 13 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,760 connections between art, 14 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,079 science, and education. 15 01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:36,360 In this episode, she opens 16 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,079 up about her early influences, 17 01:00:38,639 --> 01:00:39,639 her career as an 18 01:00:39,639 --> 01:00:41,320 educator and software engineer, 19 01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:43,719 and her passion for nature and wildlife. 20 01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:46,199 We talk about her journey as a 21 01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:47,880 photographer with three decades of 22 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:49,519 selling art at art fairs, 23 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,840 the lessons learned along the way, and 24 01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,199 how she's navigated both 25 01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:54,559 triumphs and challenges 26 01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,360 as a woman of color in the arts. 27 01:00:57,559 --> 01:00:58,840 She also shares her 28 01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,360 hands-on approach to teaching, 29 01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,039 rooted in the belief that knowledge isn't 30 01:01:03,039 --> 01:01:05,199 isolated, but deeply interconnected, 31 01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:07,960 and her lifelong commitment to public 32 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,320 service and genuine human connection. 33 01:01:11,199 --> 01:01:12,440 Rosalind, welcome to the podcast. 34 01:01:13,119 --> 01:01:15,119 Now, quick word from our sponsor, and 35 01:01:15,119 --> 01:01:16,639 then we'll get right back to the show. 36 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:18,679 When I started selling my art, I had 37 01:01:18,679 --> 01:01:20,199 absolutely no idea how to 38 01:01:20,199 --> 01:01:21,920 actually turn it into a business, 39 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:23,519 a professional business. 40 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,719 And then I came across Art Storefronts, 41 01:01:26,719 --> 01:01:28,599 and that was a game changer. 42 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,920 I've been a customer now for years, 43 01:01:31,559 --> 01:01:33,760 and they've been instrumental every step 44 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,719 of the way of helping me succeed. 45 01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:37,719 I have a gorgeous, 46 01:01:37,719 --> 01:01:39,400 powerful commerce website. 47 01:01:40,039 --> 01:01:43,239 I have marketing tools and a membership 48 01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:46,800 to a community that is very supportive 49 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:49,199 and teaches me how to 50 01:01:49,199 --> 01:01:50,360 succeed as an artist. 51 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,880 Check them out, artstorefronts.com, and 52 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:54,880 tell them how I sent you. 53 01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,000 Welcome back to the podcast. 54 01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,559 My guest today is wildlife 55 01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:01,159 photographer Rosalind Phillips. 56 01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:03,559 Rosalind, it's a pleasure 57 01:02:03,559 --> 01:02:04,800 having you on the podcast. 58 01:02:06,199 --> 01:02:08,159 And tell everyone a little bit about your 59 01:02:08,159 --> 01:02:10,320 background and how you 60 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,320 got into photography. 61 01:02:13,639 --> 01:02:14,480 I would be happy. 62 01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,599 I am so delighted to be here. 63 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,159 I have really enjoyed 64 01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:22,480 participating in the Breakfast Club. 65 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,519 In fact, sometimes I think that's the 66 01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:29,760 most valuable one of all the education 67 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,960 that Art Storefronts does 68 01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:35,119 because it's a heartfelt 69 01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:38,199 conversation among artists. 70 01:02:39,039 --> 01:02:41,599 And yes, we talk about the business 71 01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:43,320 stuff, but we also talk 72 01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,440 about the soul side of it. 73 01:02:46,039 --> 01:02:46,719 And to be honest, 74 01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,239 that's why we're artists. 75 01:02:48,679 --> 01:02:49,440 Absolutely. 76 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:50,039 We're souls. 77 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,280 It feeds our hearts. 78 01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:53,199 Yes. 79 01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,360 And that's kind of what I want this 80 01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:57,960 podcast to become, is a 81 01:02:57,960 --> 01:02:59,400 sort of an extension, a public 82 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:00,440 extension of that. 83 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:06,400 No, but you, what you do, I think is why 84 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,039 joining the platform is valuable. 85 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,719 I mean, there's all the other stuff, but 86 01:03:11,719 --> 01:03:14,239 it's the human side to 87 01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:17,000 me that makes it worth it. 88 01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,360 I feel like I get a different type of 89 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,280 validation as an artist. 90 01:03:22,199 --> 01:03:22,400 Absolutely. 91 01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:24,559 To me, that's what's very important. 92 01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:29,760 Anyway, I was born in New York City and 93 01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,119 live in way, way upper 94 01:03:32,119 --> 01:03:34,239 Manhattan, even above Washington 95 01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:34,559 Heights. 96 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,719 I lived in a little neighborhood called 97 01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:39,079 Inwood and the Coisters, 98 01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,800 which is the medieval part 99 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:42,679 of the Metropolitan 100 01:03:42,679 --> 01:03:45,000 Museum of Art is right there. 101 01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,800 And that's an important part of my life. 102 01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:53,039 But anyway, I grew up in New York City 103 01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:56,599 and in upper Manhattan, 104 01:03:57,519 --> 01:03:59,320 there are lots of parks 105 01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,280 and it was a very, well, like most New 106 01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:05,440 York neighborhoods, it 107 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:06,880 was a diverse neighborhood. 108 01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,239 We actually had a very 109 01:04:09,239 --> 01:04:12,320 strong Jewish population there. 110 01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,960 And then there were lots of black people 111 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,679 and most of the black people were of West 112 01:04:20,679 --> 01:04:21,559 Indian descent. 113 01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:25,360 And then there were lots of people from 114 01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,239 Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. 115 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,960 So it was a very mixed place. 116 01:04:31,679 --> 01:04:35,000 And so it was a nice place. 117 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:40,159 And New York City back in the late 50s 118 01:04:40,159 --> 01:04:42,119 developed this thing called the 119 01:04:42,119 --> 01:04:43,639 Mitchell-Lama Co-ops. 120 01:04:44,679 --> 01:04:46,440 And they were these beautiful apartment 121 01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,920 buildings that you could buy 122 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:52,760 an apartment for a reasonable 123 01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,000 price and it was geared towards 124 01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:56,840 middle-class families. 125 01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:59,960 And so that's where I grew 126 01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:02,000 up in this wonderful building. 127 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:04,519 And so I have two sisters 128 01:05:04,519 --> 01:05:09,960 and it was really pretty good. 129 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,119 My mom was a school teacher in the New 130 01:05:13,119 --> 01:05:14,599 York City public school system. 131 01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:16,960 And so she sent us to private school. 132 01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,960 She worked very hard for that. 133 01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:26,880 We went to this wonderful school that was 134 01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,239 run by the Ethical Culture Society, which 135 01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,960 is as reformed Judaism as you can get. 136 01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:34,079 And it was based on John 137 01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:35,559 Dewey's laboratory school. 138 01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:37,519 So it was a very action doing. 139 01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:39,679 I mean, it's like I can pretty much 140 01:05:39,679 --> 01:05:41,440 remember almost every 141 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,360 single day of elementary school. 142 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:49,719 And this is all very important to me as a 143 01:05:49,719 --> 01:05:51,039 wildlife photographer 144 01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:54,199 because everything was 145 01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:56,440 based around social studies. 146 01:05:58,119 --> 01:06:00,320 So for example, in fourth grade, we 147 01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:01,400 studied the Vikings. 148 01:06:03,239 --> 01:06:05,760 So that meant that what we were reading 149 01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,280 and writing stories 150 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:08,960 about in English were the 151 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:09,639 Norse myths. 152 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,400 And what we were learning about in social 153 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,519 studies, of course, was the history. 154 01:06:15,519 --> 01:06:17,679 But then there was art class. 155 01:06:18,519 --> 01:06:20,400 And then we had this wonderful class 156 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:21,880 called industrial arts. 157 01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,199 And in that class, we 158 01:06:24,199 --> 01:06:25,679 learned how to cook and sew. 159 01:06:26,239 --> 01:06:29,079 And so in fourth grade, we made Viking 160 01:06:29,079 --> 01:06:31,239 costumes and everybody 161 01:06:31,239 --> 01:06:33,119 did this, boys and girls. 162 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,039 And it was wonderful. 163 01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:39,840 So you had the art, you had the math, 164 01:06:40,199 --> 01:06:41,079 because we learned about 165 01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:42,440 whatever math system they 166 01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:43,800 had besides regular 167 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:45,119 fourth grade math and stuff. 168 01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:47,760 In third grade, we did Native Americans. 169 01:06:48,639 --> 01:06:50,679 In fifth grade, it was the Middle Ages. 170 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,239 In sixth grade, it was 171 01:06:53,239 --> 01:06:55,519 the colonization of America. 172 01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,599 The great Jane Goodall just passed. 173 01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:02,519 And she was certainly one of my idols. 174 01:07:03,159 --> 01:07:05,400 And one of the highlights of my high 175 01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,920 school life was the 176 01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,599 opportunity to take some classes 177 01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:10,599 with her. 178 01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:11,119 Wow. 179 01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:13,239 Yeah, you know, and 180 01:07:13,239 --> 01:07:14,960 so just very important. 181 01:07:15,719 --> 01:07:17,760 So the other part of it was my mother 182 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:18,840 believed that if you 183 01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:20,400 wanted your black children to 184 01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,719 grow up safe in New York City, you sent 185 01:07:23,719 --> 01:07:26,079 them out of the city for the summer. 186 01:07:27,559 --> 01:07:30,840 And so the way she afforded that was she 187 01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,960 was a counselor at this 188 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,760 Quaker camp up in Vermont, 189 01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,840 the Farm and Wilderness Foundation. 190 01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:39,800 And we went to camp in Vermont. 191 01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:45,079 And that's really where my love of nature 192 01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:46,960 really, really blossomed. 193 01:07:48,119 --> 01:07:48,960 And so I did all 194 01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:50,280 kinds of stuff like that. 195 01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:53,880 Now, my dad was an amateur photographer. 196 01:07:54,800 --> 01:08:00,199 And I would say maybe when I was 10, 197 01:08:00,639 --> 01:08:02,360 maybe eight, and my sister 198 01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,880 Brenda was six, no eight. 199 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:06,800 So because they're two years between us, 200 01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,280 we got our first cameras. 201 01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:10,719 And they were little point and shoots. 202 01:08:12,639 --> 01:08:14,199 And you know, so we 203 01:08:14,199 --> 01:08:15,679 took pictures all the time. 204 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:16,760 And my dad would 205 01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,560 occasionally give us some instruction. 206 01:08:20,119 --> 01:08:22,239 And so cameras of taking pictures has 207 01:08:22,239 --> 01:08:24,199 just always been a part of my life. 208 01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,960 And that was pretty remarkable. 209 01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:30,359 As you were talking, what it seems to me, 210 01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:31,520 and I don't know yet too 211 01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,399 much about your current 212 01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:35,680 life as a wildlife photographer, I do 213 01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:36,439 know you've been doing 214 01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,159 it for many, many decades, 215 01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,840 for decades, and that you fell in love 216 01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:43,800 with both nature, 217 01:08:44,079 --> 01:08:46,960 animals, and photography in your 218 01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:47,720 early teens. 219 01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:51,439 So you're just living your best life. 220 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,439 Like you're living the life that you 221 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,479 started living as a child. 222 01:08:56,159 --> 01:08:56,680 Would that be? 223 01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:58,800 I am now, yes. 224 01:09:00,039 --> 01:09:03,600 You know, the first 20 years of my 225 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,279 working career, I was a 226 01:09:06,279 --> 01:09:11,199 teacher, high school and teacher 227 01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:14,399 education classes and computer science 228 01:09:14,399 --> 01:09:16,680 classes in the local colleges. 229 01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,159 I moved to Olympia, Washington when I 230 01:09:20,159 --> 01:09:21,520 was, I don't know, maybe 231 01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,960 24, 25, because I started 232 01:09:25,159 --> 01:09:28,439 my teaching career at a Quaker school 233 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,720 just outside of Washington, D.C. 234 01:09:31,159 --> 01:09:32,840 And I taught, and as I say, I 235 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:34,720 did my time in middle school. 236 01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,720 That's amazing that you valued education 237 01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:42,279 so much growing up, and 238 01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:43,720 it left such an impression 239 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,640 that you decided to go into education as 240 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:47,640 well and impart your 241 01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:49,239 knowledge to another generation. 242 01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:54,760 The experience that I had at Fieldston so 243 01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,439 profoundly affected 244 01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:58,159 my life and my sister's 245 01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:02,399 lives that I wanted to share that 246 01:10:02,399 --> 01:10:04,039 experience with people who 247 01:10:04,039 --> 01:10:08,279 didn't have the parents that 248 01:10:08,279 --> 01:10:10,720 sacrificed so much to send their children 249 01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,159 to a private school. 250 01:10:13,399 --> 01:10:15,359 I mean, obviously we had scholarships and 251 01:10:15,359 --> 01:10:16,319 things like that, but 252 01:10:16,319 --> 01:10:18,079 still, to send three 253 01:10:18,119 --> 01:10:19,000 children to private 254 01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,319 school is pretty difficult. 255 01:10:23,039 --> 01:10:26,399 And so I taught mostly, well, I taught 256 01:10:26,399 --> 01:10:29,159 math and science and computers. 257 01:10:30,279 --> 01:10:35,279 And so I became a national leader in 258 01:10:35,279 --> 01:10:38,239 using the computer in 259 01:10:38,239 --> 01:10:41,520 the classroom and worked on 260 01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,520 several pioneering projects. 261 01:10:44,279 --> 01:10:48,279 I built, when I started out teaching, we 262 01:10:48,279 --> 01:10:50,039 had the Apple IIe computer. 263 01:10:50,359 --> 01:10:54,399 And what was so great about that computer 264 01:10:54,399 --> 01:10:57,800 was that it was really accessible and you 265 01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,159 could build things and 266 01:10:59,159 --> 01:11:00,520 plug them in and use them. 267 01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,600 So I built a whole thing of lab equipment 268 01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:06,520 so that we could do that. 269 01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:07,720 And all my classes have 270 01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:09,279 always been project-based. 271 01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:11,760 So the skip ahead many years. 272 01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,880 In the late 80s, early 90s, it was fairly 273 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,439 fashionable to bash 274 01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,479 high school kids and talk 275 01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:22,279 about how horrible they were. 276 01:11:22,279 --> 01:11:23,720 And I just got tired of it. 277 01:11:24,199 --> 01:11:27,640 So I brought my camera back out because I 278 01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:28,640 had actually stopped 279 01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:30,199 taking pictures in college 280 01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:31,840 and through that, I 281 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,159 got my camera out again. 282 01:11:35,039 --> 01:11:41,520 And I started taking pictures of my kids 283 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,039 in the classroom and what they were doing 284 01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,159 because I was just so impressed because 285 01:11:47,159 --> 01:11:49,720 again, my classes were all project-based. 286 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:54,279 And the school that I was teaching at a 287 01:11:54,279 --> 01:11:56,439 public school was an alternative school. 288 01:11:56,840 --> 01:12:00,039 And the school was geared towards kids 289 01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:01,840 who didn't fit in, but it 290 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:03,079 was really geared towards 291 01:12:03,119 --> 01:12:05,439 low achieving kids who really 292 01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:07,560 could have amazing potential. 293 01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:12,039 And so pretty much my imagination could 294 01:12:12,039 --> 01:12:14,000 run wild in my kitchen 295 01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:14,960 because I could do pretty 296 01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:16,159 much anything I wanted. 297 01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,520 Anyway, I started, I was 298 01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:20,600 taking lots and lots of pictures. 299 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,079 But you know, while the kids were doing 300 01:12:23,079 --> 01:12:24,600 different things, I 301 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,399 started taking pictures of other 302 01:12:26,399 --> 01:12:30,000 things and rediscovered my love of 303 01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,560 photography and birds. 304 01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:36,199 And so although this picture behind me is 305 01:12:36,199 --> 01:12:37,199 not the hummingbird 306 01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:40,119 picture that I took back 307 01:12:40,119 --> 01:12:45,800 in 1992, but it was a hummingbird 308 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:47,399 picture, a hummingbird 309 01:12:47,399 --> 01:12:49,479 nest that was over a stream 310 01:12:50,319 --> 01:12:51,399 that I noticed when the 311 01:12:51,399 --> 01:12:52,760 kids were doing water samples. 312 01:12:53,039 --> 01:12:54,960 And so I took a picture of a hummingbird 313 01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:56,960 sitting on her nest and 314 01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:58,039 that was kind of like the 315 01:12:58,039 --> 01:12:59,560 start of everything again. 316 01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:00,520 Wow. 317 01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:01,279 I love that. 318 01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,039 So there is an actual pivotal photograph 319 01:13:05,039 --> 01:13:07,159 that you took that 320 01:13:07,159 --> 01:13:09,840 ignited your entire passion. 321 01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:11,199 That's amazing. 322 01:13:12,199 --> 01:13:14,079 So where did it go from there? 323 01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:21,920 Well, it meant that I got a real camera 324 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:22,880 because remember in those 325 01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:23,840 days we're still shooting 326 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:24,319 film. 327 01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:24,840 Yes. 328 01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,880 And the primary science classes that I 329 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:32,399 taught were physics and 330 01:13:32,399 --> 01:13:35,439 chemistry and advanced biology, 331 01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:37,840 so genetics and things like that. 332 01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,720 And so photography is physics. 333 01:13:42,079 --> 01:13:43,279 I mean, it's a study of light. 334 01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:44,960 It's a study of light. 335 01:13:46,079 --> 01:13:50,960 So I took my love of physics and I put it 336 01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:51,880 into my photography 337 01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,000 and I started studying. 338 01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:01,039 Well, I had been keeping nature journals 339 01:14:01,039 --> 01:14:02,880 like this probably 340 01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,039 since I was about, I don't 341 01:14:05,039 --> 01:14:06,600 know, maybe 12, 13. 342 01:14:07,159 --> 01:14:08,279 I had a really big 343 01:14:08,279 --> 01:14:09,800 sketchbook at that time. 344 01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:12,399 And what I would do is when I would take 345 01:14:12,399 --> 01:14:14,199 my pictures, because on 346 01:14:14,199 --> 01:14:17,159 film I would then paste 347 01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:20,520 them into my big sketchbook and I would 348 01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:22,279 write down the 349 01:14:22,279 --> 01:14:25,119 settings, which you had to write 350 01:14:25,279 --> 01:14:27,079 down meticulously as you took each 351 01:14:27,079 --> 01:14:28,439 picture because we didn't 352 01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:29,960 have it automatically then. 353 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,159 And then I would write down what I liked 354 01:14:32,159 --> 01:14:33,600 or didn't like about the picture. 355 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:36,800 And from there I started to develop my 356 01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,520 philosophy of photography. 357 01:14:40,079 --> 01:14:42,119 I'd love to hear what that philosophy is. 358 01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,119 Well, the philosophy is that there's a 359 01:14:45,119 --> 01:14:47,600 reason why we take a 360 01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,279 picture and there's a difference 361 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,079 between a photograph and a snapshot. 362 01:14:56,079 --> 01:14:56,279 Absolutely. 363 01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:56,840 Yeah. 364 01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:57,319 Right. 365 01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:59,439 I mean, a snapshot is 366 01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:01,039 you just take pictures. 367 01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:04,399 A photograph though, you think about it 368 01:15:04,399 --> 01:15:05,399 and there's planning. 369 01:15:06,119 --> 01:15:06,319 Yeah. 370 01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:07,680 So it's about intent. 371 01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:09,439 It's about intent. 372 01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,880 And so it very quickly changed from just 373 01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,079 writing down my 374 01:15:15,079 --> 01:15:17,880 settings to what's the story. 375 01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:20,439 Why did I want to press the shutter? 376 01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:21,399 What was the intent? 377 01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:27,920 What would you say is the kind of 378 01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:29,159 narrative, like the 379 01:15:29,159 --> 01:15:32,880 overarching narrative of your photography 380 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:33,560 story? 381 01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:34,680 What is the main story 382 01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:35,920 that you are trying to tell? 383 01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,439 So if you were to read this stuff on the 384 01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:42,000 website, it would talk 385 01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:46,079 about how my intent with doing 386 01:15:46,079 --> 01:15:48,520 birds, because that really is my first 387 01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,520 love of wildlife is birds. 388 01:15:51,039 --> 01:15:53,000 Not that I don't do lots of other things. 389 01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:58,199 And I'll talk about that later, but is I 390 01:15:58,199 --> 01:16:01,239 want you to really see the story. 391 01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,319 I want you to see the 392 01:16:03,319 --> 01:16:05,880 soul of that living creature. 393 01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,920 I want you to know that every single 394 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,159 living creature, whether 395 01:16:11,159 --> 01:16:13,680 it be a bird or an insect, 396 01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,720 is worthy and deserves the same respect 397 01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,399 that we give other human beings. 398 01:16:22,079 --> 01:16:23,079 And that's what I want to 399 01:16:23,079 --> 01:16:24,279 convey through my photography. 400 01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,840 I want to convey that story. 401 01:16:28,199 --> 01:16:29,600 I want to convey that. 402 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,319 The Quakers, because the camps that we 403 01:16:32,319 --> 01:16:33,119 went to, the former 404 01:16:33,119 --> 01:16:35,399 wilderness camp, were started 405 01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:36,399 by a Quaker couple. 406 01:16:37,239 --> 01:16:41,439 The Quakers have a saying of that of God 407 01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:42,640 within every person, 408 01:16:43,159 --> 01:16:44,880 and every child deserves 409 01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:45,840 to be loved. 410 01:16:47,119 --> 01:16:48,159 And so that was my 411 01:16:48,159 --> 01:16:49,640 philosophy as a teacher. 412 01:16:50,079 --> 01:16:52,000 That is my philosophy for life. 413 01:16:53,319 --> 01:16:55,560 And so you can just extend that. 414 01:16:56,079 --> 01:16:59,880 Every living creature, whether it be an 415 01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:01,960 animal or a tree or a 416 01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,439 flower or a mushroom, deserves 417 01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:05,159 to be loved. 418 01:17:06,199 --> 01:17:11,159 And that's my philosophy. 419 01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:13,920 That has governed my entire life. 420 01:17:15,079 --> 01:17:18,600 Let me ask you a question. 421 01:17:20,279 --> 01:17:23,079 Right now, what are you most 422 01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:25,319 passionate about right now? 423 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:26,560 Right now? 424 01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:28,800 Astro photography. 425 01:17:33,159 --> 01:17:34,720 It's really funny because I've been 426 01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:35,840 looking at my pictures 427 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,319 and I realized that I really 428 01:17:38,319 --> 01:17:39,439 haven't taken very many 429 01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:40,680 bird pictures this summer. 430 01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:42,920 I haven't really taken very many animal 431 01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,239 pictures since I got back 432 01:17:45,239 --> 01:17:48,000 from Alaska in early June. 433 01:17:49,399 --> 01:17:50,720 Fell in love with the sky. 434 01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:53,920 Well I've always been in love with taking 435 01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:55,279 pictures of the Milky Way. 436 01:17:56,399 --> 01:18:00,840 In 1997, I got ill. 437 01:18:02,199 --> 01:18:04,479 And it was really kind of ironic because 438 01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:05,680 for the first time in my 439 01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:08,800 life, I had a safe science 440 01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,079 lab that had ventilation and stuff. 441 01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:13,439 And I got really, really sick. 442 01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:17,319 And at the end of 1997, actually got 443 01:18:17,319 --> 01:18:18,920 carted out of the school 444 01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,479 on a stretcher because I 445 01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:26,960 had such a bad asthma attack and I had 446 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,119 developed chemical 447 01:18:28,119 --> 01:18:30,880 sensitivities, which I didn't realize. 448 01:18:31,399 --> 01:18:33,800 And I got carted out of my classroom on a 449 01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:34,760 stretcher and I never 450 01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:36,960 went back to teaching. 451 01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:41,640 And that was a really hard 452 01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:44,039 transition for me to make. 453 01:18:44,039 --> 01:18:46,920 And I went into my next great love, which 454 01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,399 was software engineering. 455 01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:51,720 Because I'd always been 456 01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:53,279 very active with technology. 457 01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,479 And so I then spent the rest of my 458 01:18:57,479 --> 01:18:59,760 working career as a 459 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,720 software engineer and worked for 460 01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:04,800 the Washington State Department of Health 461 01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:06,199 as their lead software 462 01:19:06,199 --> 01:19:10,039 engineer and was responsible 463 01:19:10,279 --> 01:19:15,239 for the software that collected all the 464 01:19:15,239 --> 01:19:16,560 infectious disease data 465 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:18,319 around the state and sent it off 466 01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:19,399 to CDC every week. 467 01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:21,720 Can I ask you a question? 468 01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,119 So obviously, I didn't know anything 469 01:19:26,119 --> 01:19:27,800 about you when we started talking. 470 01:19:28,359 --> 01:19:29,840 And so I introduced you 471 01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:31,279 as a wildlife photographer. 472 01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:32,279 That's all I knew. 473 01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:34,399 But you had- 474 01:19:34,399 --> 01:19:34,960 I am as a teacher. 475 01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:36,880 Really what I am as a teacher. 476 01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,159 Teachers and a scientist and an engineer 477 01:19:41,159 --> 01:19:42,520 and all of these other things. 478 01:19:43,039 --> 01:19:50,520 I'm curious, like, where- I mean, your 479 01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:53,840 photography is not just a hobby. 480 01:19:55,199 --> 01:19:56,039 Oh, no, no, no, no. 481 01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:57,319 It's my soul. 482 01:19:58,279 --> 01:19:58,800 It's my soul. 483 01:19:59,039 --> 01:20:01,279 And so one of the things that stopping 484 01:20:01,279 --> 01:20:03,520 teaching did, it meant 485 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,079 that even though I didn't have 486 01:20:06,399 --> 01:20:09,640 those eight weeks in the summer to pursue 487 01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:11,800 photography, it 488 01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:13,279 meant, though, that I could 489 01:20:13,399 --> 01:20:16,399 do things at different times of the year 490 01:20:16,399 --> 01:20:17,840 and I could really 491 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:19,720 pretty much be in charge of 492 01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:20,760 my own schedule. 493 01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,319 But I would say that my life as a 494 01:20:24,319 --> 01:20:24,920 professional 495 01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,560 photographer really started in 1995. 496 01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:28,640 Okay. 497 01:20:30,159 --> 01:20:31,760 For you, life as a professional 498 01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,119 photographer means- because 499 01:20:35,119 --> 01:20:37,920 I know you sell a lot of your 500 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:38,479 photography. 501 01:20:39,239 --> 01:20:40,279 Is that your main- 502 01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,520 In the art, the summer art circuit. 503 01:20:46,279 --> 01:20:47,920 And you've been doing 504 01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:49,399 that for a long time. 505 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:52,560 Since 1996, yeah. 506 01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:55,399 Can you talk a little bit about that 507 01:20:55,399 --> 01:20:57,720 lifestyle as an artist who 508 01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:01,279 has made a career doing the 509 01:21:01,279 --> 01:21:02,439 art fair circuit? 510 01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:05,960 Because that's something that I know some 511 01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:10,640 of us are really curious about and it has 512 01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:11,520 to be a lifestyle. 513 01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:12,560 Can you talk a little bit 514 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:15,960 about the pros and cons of that? 515 01:21:17,039 --> 01:21:17,199 Sure. 516 01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:24,319 The nice thing was that Olympia, 517 01:21:25,159 --> 01:21:26,079 Washington really has a 518 01:21:26,079 --> 01:21:28,199 very vibrant arts community. 519 01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:37,399 And so in 1996, Olympia started this 520 01:21:37,399 --> 01:21:38,920 little thing that was 521 01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:41,680 called art- I guess really 522 01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,600 it was Art on the Landing because we have 523 01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:46,640 this beautiful waterfront because Olympia 524 01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:48,000 is right on Puget Sound. 525 01:21:49,399 --> 01:21:52,960 And you could sign up for 526 01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:54,960 these Sunday afternoons. 527 01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,640 And so, you know, 528 01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:03,600 built some pegboard stands. 529 01:22:04,479 --> 01:22:06,279 At that time I didn't even have a tent. 530 01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,840 And there were two jewelry artists, my 531 01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:11,960 friends Heather and Todd, 532 01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:13,279 that were starting doing 533 01:22:13,319 --> 01:22:14,600 this at the same time. 534 01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:17,600 We kind of grew together as 535 01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,279 artists and started learning. 536 01:22:23,399 --> 01:22:28,279 And because I am a scientist, I'm very 537 01:22:28,279 --> 01:22:29,720 methodical in looking 538 01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:30,800 up how to do things. 539 01:22:31,399 --> 01:22:33,439 You have to remember that in those days, 540 01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,960 back in the mid-90s, 541 01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:37,600 the internet is not really 542 01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,039 a big thing yet. 543 01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,680 And so I'm in the library doing research 544 01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:45,399 about how to do this. 545 01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,520 I think at that time I didn't know about 546 01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:49,399 the Small Business 547 01:22:49,399 --> 01:22:50,880 Administration and that I could 548 01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:51,960 take classes with them. 549 01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:54,279 And so I just figured it out. 550 01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:01,079 So all the amazing tools that we have now 551 01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:02,279 to get started, none 552 01:23:02,279 --> 01:23:03,399 of that stuff existed. 553 01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:05,600 I just figured it out. 554 01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:07,960 You're such a scientist and an engineer. 555 01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:11,199 When you talk a lot about the methodology 556 01:23:11,199 --> 01:23:14,039 of it, I want to talk more about emotion. 557 01:23:15,319 --> 01:23:19,840 From your first time sort of setting up 558 01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:21,880 and having your art on 559 01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:23,640 display for people to buy, 560 01:23:25,279 --> 01:23:29,479 I'd love to hear what did it feel like to 561 01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:31,640 sell your first 562 01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,319 photograph, to get your first 563 01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:35,720 repeat client? 564 01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:39,920 What was that like? 565 01:23:41,159 --> 01:23:44,920 Probably the most important thing for me 566 01:23:44,920 --> 01:23:46,560 during those first years 567 01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:49,600 was learning that selling 568 01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,039 and how much you sold was not 569 01:23:53,039 --> 01:23:54,680 the measure of your success. 570 01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:57,720 Because what you have to realize is that 571 01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,279 I was always used to being the best. 572 01:24:02,039 --> 01:24:04,079 The top of my feet, as 573 01:24:04,079 --> 01:24:05,920 a student, as a teacher. 574 01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:09,760 And so you're sitting there in that 575 01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:10,960 booth, you know this, 576 01:24:11,359 --> 01:24:13,479 and people come by and they 577 01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:14,960 look at it and they say, 578 01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:16,119 "Very nice," and then they leave. 579 01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:18,479 Well, very nice. 580 01:24:19,079 --> 01:24:21,159 It's nice, but it'll give you money to 581 01:24:21,159 --> 01:24:22,399 buy more camera equipment. 582 01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:23,000 Right. 583 01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:25,159 I mean, because you have to realize that 584 01:24:25,159 --> 01:24:26,159 at this time when I 585 01:24:26,159 --> 01:24:27,760 started, I'm still a full-time 586 01:24:28,159 --> 01:24:28,199 teacher. 587 01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:35,520 And so I don't need the money from the 588 01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:38,279 booth to pay my mortgage. 589 01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,199 What I need the money for is to be a 590 01:24:41,199 --> 01:24:42,560 photographer and to be able 591 01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,319 to travel and to be able to 592 01:24:44,319 --> 01:24:46,520 buy new equipment and to 593 01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:48,279 buy more photography books. 594 01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:50,600 And most importantly, because remember 595 01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:51,640 we're still in film 596 01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:53,960 days, to process my film. 597 01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,520 When I made my first sale to somebody who 598 01:24:58,520 --> 01:24:59,680 wasn't a friend or 599 01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:01,239 family, that was a pretty 600 01:25:01,239 --> 01:25:01,760 big deal. 601 01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:03,560 That was over the moon. 602 01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:08,199 You're so right to say that selling your 603 01:25:08,199 --> 01:25:09,880 art is not the same 604 01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:12,079 thing as being good as an 605 01:25:12,079 --> 01:25:13,279 artist and that should not 606 01:25:13,279 --> 01:25:15,239 be a metric of validation. 607 01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,159 On the other hand, there's still that 608 01:25:18,159 --> 01:25:21,199 feeling when somebody 609 01:25:21,199 --> 01:25:23,800 who doesn't know you isn't 610 01:25:24,199 --> 01:25:25,920 like kissing up to you or anything like 611 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,159 that, they genuinely 612 01:25:27,159 --> 01:25:29,560 love your art so much that 613 01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:31,079 they're parting with their heart, earn 614 01:25:31,079 --> 01:25:33,279 money so that they can own it. 615 01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:34,600 And that is just an 616 01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:36,720 amazing feeling, isn't it? 617 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:37,640 It really is. 618 01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:41,439 And so my philosophy in my booth was to 619 01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:44,560 always have a wide range 620 01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:48,399 of prices because I believed 621 01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,800 that everybody deserved to have beautiful 622 01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:53,479 artwork in their homes. 623 01:25:54,279 --> 01:26:00,439 And so I had my cards and I had, you 624 01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:01,680 know, Prince, matted 625 01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,399 Prince, and I had the frame 626 01:26:05,399 --> 01:26:07,399 stuff on the wall. 627 01:26:09,039 --> 01:26:11,680 And what I very rapidly discovered 628 01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:13,640 through doing Harbor 629 01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:17,399 Days, which is the Labor Day 630 01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:19,680 celebration here in Olympia. 631 01:26:21,039 --> 01:26:23,960 And so when I started doing that show, 632 01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:24,800 and the first time I 633 01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:25,600 would have done that would 634 01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,079 have been in 1996, what I very rapidly 635 01:26:29,079 --> 01:26:32,640 discovered was that people 636 01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:34,920 would buy a card and then 637 01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:36,159 the next year they'd come 638 01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:38,039 back and they'd buy a print. 639 01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:40,319 And then the next year they'd come back 640 01:26:40,319 --> 01:26:42,840 and they'd buy the framed picture. 641 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:46,680 And so what I discovered very quickly was 642 01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,000 that the same types of relationships that 643 01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:51,159 I built with my students over the years, 644 01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:53,319 I needed to build with my clients. 645 01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:55,199 And so that's what I focused on. 646 01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:56,039 I love that. 647 01:26:57,159 --> 01:27:00,439 And I would even sometimes, particularly 648 01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:04,079 people who had kids, I 649 01:27:04,079 --> 01:27:05,920 would actually make notes 650 01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:09,520 about people because I would see them 651 01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,560 year after year, you 652 01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,119 know, and I would see them 653 01:27:13,119 --> 01:27:15,319 at Harbor Days and I'd see them at Art 654 01:27:15,319 --> 01:27:16,479 Walk, you know, our 655 01:27:16,479 --> 01:27:18,039 local types of things. 656 01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:21,880 I would see them at the holiday shows. 657 01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:25,319 And so over that time, I would build 658 01:27:25,319 --> 01:27:28,159 these amazing relationships with people. 659 01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:28,800 Amazing. 660 01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:37,039 And today, when I do Harbor Days, I have 661 01:27:37,039 --> 01:27:39,039 people who were little 662 01:27:39,039 --> 01:27:42,399 kids who are now bringing 663 01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,880 their grandchildren to see my stuff and 664 01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:47,359 telling stories to their 665 01:27:47,359 --> 01:27:50,119 grandchildren about me when 666 01:27:50,119 --> 01:27:50,880 they were children. 667 01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,039 So one of the nice things about doing art 668 01:27:55,039 --> 01:27:57,760 in your community, and also because I was 669 01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,159 a teacher in the community, is that I 670 01:28:00,159 --> 01:28:01,319 just have all these 671 01:28:01,319 --> 01:28:03,560 relationships and I treasure 672 01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:04,880 those relationships. 673 01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:07,399 You know, when people come into my, we 674 01:28:07,399 --> 01:28:09,279 hug, we ask each other 675 01:28:09,279 --> 01:28:10,560 how your year has been. 676 01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:13,840 They ask me where I've traveled and do I 677 01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:14,960 have anything special 678 01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:16,279 that I want to show them? 679 01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:18,039 That's fantastic. 680 01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:20,279 This actually dovetails 681 01:28:20,279 --> 01:28:21,800 very nicely to a question. 682 01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,439 I like to ask all my guests, how would 683 01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,560 you define success now 684 01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:29,920 and how has it changed 685 01:28:30,039 --> 01:28:31,520 over time? 686 01:28:34,079 --> 01:28:36,560 Ooh, that's a really good one. 687 01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:45,279 Well, I've certainly, you know, selling 688 01:28:45,279 --> 01:28:47,399 lots of stuff is always good. 689 01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,600 But I really think that I define my 690 01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:56,920 success with by repeat 691 01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:00,199 customers and the relationships 692 01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,079 that I've dealt with them over time. 693 01:29:06,399 --> 01:29:10,880 And especially because your art has a 694 01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:12,760 very specific message 695 01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:15,159 that you are sharing through 696 01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:15,640 your work. 697 01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:20,079 And so when it resonates with others and 698 01:29:20,079 --> 01:29:22,520 especially over time, it 699 01:29:22,520 --> 01:29:25,079 really does feel like advocacy 700 01:29:25,319 --> 01:29:26,720 to some degree, doesn't it? 701 01:29:27,159 --> 01:29:30,239 It is advocacy for building a 702 01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:31,560 relationship with nature. 703 01:29:33,279 --> 01:29:36,239 And so over time, you know, when I first 704 01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:39,039 started taking pictures, it 705 01:29:39,039 --> 01:29:41,600 was mostly about portraits, 706 01:29:42,319 --> 01:29:45,920 actual portraits, and just trying to get 707 01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:48,600 it in focus, have a nice blurry back, you 708 01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:49,800 know, it was about that. 709 01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:53,960 But over time, it has very much changed 710 01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,560 into giving a window onto 711 01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,399 that, onto nature's life, 712 01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:02,319 to their interactions. 713 01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,960 So if I just duck my head out of the way, 714 01:30:05,359 --> 01:30:06,840 this is more of the 715 01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:07,920 type of picture I take 716 01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:10,359 today with mom feeding 717 01:30:10,359 --> 01:30:12,640 the chicks, you know. 718 01:30:13,199 --> 01:30:15,840 And so this particular picture 719 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,960 represents, well, the whole 720 01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,680 range of pictures represents 721 01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:28,319 21 days, well, more than 21 days of 722 01:30:28,319 --> 01:30:32,399 pictures because there's 723 01:30:32,399 --> 01:30:34,000 a wildlife refuge not too 724 01:30:34,039 --> 01:30:38,079 far and every year the Rufus hummingbirds 725 01:30:38,079 --> 01:30:41,000 pretty much nest in the same area. 726 01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:42,680 They don't use the same nest. 727 01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:45,119 And you know, and we're 728 01:30:45,119 --> 01:30:46,520 all looking for the nest. 729 01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:48,600 And as soon as somebody finds the nest, 730 01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:49,720 they let everybody know. 731 01:30:50,960 --> 01:30:53,039 And then I start staking out the nest. 732 01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:55,279 And depending on where the nest is 733 01:30:55,279 --> 01:30:57,399 located, I figure out the 734 01:30:57,399 --> 01:30:58,800 time of day I want to be 735 01:30:58,800 --> 01:30:59,039 there. 736 01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:03,399 So for those of us listeners who are not 737 01:31:03,399 --> 01:31:04,640 watching it on YouTube and 738 01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:07,359 can't see the photo, what 739 01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:09,000 we're looking at is a close 740 01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:11,840 up of a hummingbird's nest. 741 01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:13,960 And the nest itself 742 01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:15,279 is made out of lichen. 743 01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:17,720 Lichen and spiderwebs. 744 01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:18,800 And spiderwebs. 745 01:31:20,279 --> 01:31:22,680 And this beautiful little bird has two 746 01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:24,920 chicks and she is in the 747 01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:26,279 process of feeding one of 748 01:31:26,279 --> 01:31:26,680 the chicks. 749 01:31:27,399 --> 01:31:30,880 It's just such an intimate and magical 750 01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:31,920 moment, especially 751 01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:33,039 because it's a hummingbird. 752 01:31:33,039 --> 01:31:33,880 So it's so tiny. 753 01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:39,760 And seeing this delicate creature in such 754 01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:42,479 detail is actually quite amazing. 755 01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,880 And it tells a very, very vivid story. 756 01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:51,680 So we talked about your success. 757 01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:56,520 What success means is connecting with 758 01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:57,920 people and building those 759 01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,279 connections over time and 760 01:32:00,279 --> 01:32:02,520 generational connections with people. 761 01:32:04,199 --> 01:32:06,520 What are some of the challenges that 762 01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:09,039 you've encountered in 763 01:32:09,039 --> 01:32:10,760 your career as an artist? 764 01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:13,520 There are a number of challenges. 765 01:32:14,279 --> 01:32:16,800 First off, there's the challenge itself 766 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,279 of your booth doing 767 01:32:19,279 --> 01:32:22,319 outdoor shows and coming 768 01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:26,119 up with an arrangement that lasts through 769 01:32:26,119 --> 01:32:30,560 windstorms and rainstorms and still looks 770 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,279 beautiful, you know, 771 01:32:32,279 --> 01:32:33,640 because it has to look beautiful. 772 01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:37,479 And so obviously my booth has changed 773 01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:39,279 over the years to do that. 774 01:32:40,319 --> 01:32:47,119 One of my worst show stories is rain was 775 01:32:47,119 --> 01:32:48,880 forecast for one evening. 776 01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:52,960 It was a summer show up in Seattle and I 777 01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:54,159 sort of looked at it 778 01:32:54,159 --> 01:32:56,800 and I thought, you know, I 779 01:32:56,880 --> 01:32:58,520 think I'm going to take all the pictures 780 01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,720 off the wall and put 781 01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:02,279 them in their tubs and cover 782 01:33:02,279 --> 01:33:03,760 up the tubs with a tarp. 783 01:33:04,199 --> 01:33:05,640 And I don't, you know, because I just 784 01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:06,520 looked at it, it was 785 01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:07,800 supposed to be windy. 786 01:33:09,039 --> 01:33:10,680 And you know, I had that grid wall so the 787 01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:11,840 booth wasn't going anywhere. 788 01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:17,920 And so that morning when I got back, it 789 01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:19,520 was like, well, where's my tent? 790 01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:21,399 And it had collapsed. 791 01:33:23,159 --> 01:33:26,840 And the middle was down on the ground and 792 01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:27,680 then the edges were 793 01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:28,960 still up around the grid 794 01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:29,520 wall. 795 01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:31,520 But if I had had my pictures up on the 796 01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,079 wall, they all would have been ruined. 797 01:33:34,079 --> 01:33:36,079 Some people's tents were gone. 798 01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:40,760 These tent pretty much was ruined. 799 01:33:42,319 --> 01:33:45,039 And in those days, Costco was so great 800 01:33:45,039 --> 01:33:46,079 because you just took it 801 01:33:46,079 --> 01:33:47,159 back in and they gave you 802 01:33:47,159 --> 01:33:47,680 another one. 803 01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:48,520 It was great. 804 01:33:49,439 --> 01:33:52,560 But that was, but that, but that was, you 805 01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:53,319 know, that's the type 806 01:33:53,319 --> 01:33:54,560 of thing you deal with. 807 01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:58,119 The other thing that I dealt with besides 808 01:33:58,119 --> 01:33:59,920 practicalities of money 809 01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:01,359 and all that and insurance 810 01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:04,199 and all that kind of stuff was the fact 811 01:34:04,199 --> 01:34:05,279 that unfortunately 812 01:34:05,279 --> 01:34:08,840 racism is alive and well in 813 01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:09,319 America. 814 01:34:10,199 --> 01:34:12,279 And that really has not changed. 815 01:34:13,079 --> 01:34:16,880 And people have stereotypical images of 816 01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:18,039 what women and 817 01:34:18,039 --> 01:34:19,840 particularly what black women, women 818 01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:21,039 of color can do. 819 01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:26,760 And so, you know, it still is not 820 01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:28,079 uncommon for somebody. 821 01:34:28,319 --> 01:34:31,119 I mean, in 2025, it still is not uncommon 822 01:34:31,119 --> 01:34:32,199 for somebody to come 823 01:34:32,199 --> 01:34:35,039 into my booth and say, 824 01:34:35,279 --> 01:34:36,680 is this your husband's work? 825 01:34:39,079 --> 01:34:40,319 And to assume that I'm 826 01:34:40,319 --> 01:34:41,399 married to a white man. 827 01:34:45,159 --> 01:34:47,439 And I have got into some very, I mean, 828 01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:48,760 essentially I just ask 829 01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:50,039 people to leave my booth. 830 01:34:51,199 --> 01:34:53,279 It's because engaging in 831 01:34:53,279 --> 01:34:56,520 conversation just upsets me. 832 01:34:58,119 --> 01:34:59,159 You shouldn't have to. 833 01:34:59,159 --> 01:35:00,840 Evolve the right kind of energy. 834 01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:01,760 Yeah. 835 01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:06,319 Which makes it even more remarkable that 836 01:35:06,319 --> 01:35:07,840 you are committed to your 837 01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:11,199 passion and have persevered 838 01:35:11,279 --> 01:35:12,720 over three decades. 839 01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:17,199 Well, that's because I believe that even 840 01:35:17,199 --> 01:35:18,880 though there are hateful 841 01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:21,199 people in this world, I 842 01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:26,159 still believe that the majority of people 843 01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:28,600 have their hearts in the right places. 844 01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:31,560 And those are most of the 845 01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:33,880 people that I interact with. 846 01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:34,680 Yeah. 847 01:35:35,199 --> 01:35:38,079 And you've interacted with like three 848 01:35:38,079 --> 01:35:40,479 generations of people. 849 01:35:41,079 --> 01:35:42,159 You know, the kids, the 850 01:35:42,159 --> 01:35:43,960 little kids now have grandkids. 851 01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:49,800 And so you can clearly say that your 852 01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:51,560 message, you have, and each 853 01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:54,640 one of those people shares 854 01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:57,560 that story with their people. 855 01:35:58,199 --> 01:36:00,680 And I feel like the message that you're 856 01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:06,520 sharing is worth sharing. 857 01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:12,840 And I think it trumps the few. 858 01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:20,560 I have a lot of respect for anyone who 859 01:36:20,560 --> 01:36:23,640 continues to do their passion. 860 01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:25,840 And it's like we said from the beginning, 861 01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:27,600 a passion for 862 01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:30,039 wildlife, for animals, for the 863 01:36:30,039 --> 01:36:31,560 environment, for ecology, for 864 01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:34,560 storytelling, for arts and 865 01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:35,800 photography, all of that. 866 01:36:36,039 --> 01:36:37,039 You've had that in you 867 01:36:37,039 --> 01:36:38,319 since you were 10 years old. 868 01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:43,840 And you have known from a very young age 869 01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,720 how important it is to have an education. 870 01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:51,079 And you've watched your mom and your dad 871 01:36:51,079 --> 01:36:53,920 do everything they can 872 01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:57,319 to give you the best start 873 01:36:57,439 --> 01:36:58,079 in life. 874 01:37:00,399 --> 01:37:05,159 And I think if I was to say, what is the 875 01:37:05,159 --> 01:37:06,399 definition of success? 876 01:37:07,159 --> 01:37:08,079 You wake up every morning 877 01:37:08,079 --> 01:37:09,199 and I know there's challenges. 878 01:37:09,960 --> 01:37:11,119 There's always challenges. 879 01:37:11,399 --> 01:37:12,319 There's life challenges. 880 01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:15,279 As we get older, there's health 881 01:37:15,279 --> 01:37:17,600 challenges and so on. 882 01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:24,279 But you get to do what you 883 01:37:24,279 --> 01:37:27,319 were meant to do in this life. 884 01:37:28,119 --> 01:37:30,399 And now that I'm retired, I can really, 885 01:37:30,399 --> 01:37:31,720 really focus on stuff. 886 01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:35,319 And so the two things I love to do is 887 01:37:35,319 --> 01:37:36,680 take pictures and teach. 888 01:37:37,359 --> 01:37:38,840 And so I teach photography. 889 01:37:39,119 --> 01:37:39,960 In fact, I'm Zoom. 890 01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:44,399 And so one of the things I love about 891 01:37:44,399 --> 01:37:45,840 being an artist and a 892 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,319 teacher is that I am always 893 01:37:48,319 --> 01:37:50,479 learning new things and 894 01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:53,119 finding new ways to look at stuff. 895 01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:58,319 So if you were to look at some of my 896 01:37:58,319 --> 01:38:00,359 newest work, you would 897 01:38:00,359 --> 01:38:02,359 see that over the years I've 898 01:38:02,359 --> 01:38:04,840 started doing a lot more abstract stuff 899 01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:06,880 with nature because 900 01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:10,359 what I have found is that 901 01:38:10,359 --> 01:38:14,159 by doing some abstract stuff, I'm really 902 01:38:14,159 --> 01:38:16,079 getting into the soul of stuff. 903 01:38:16,560 --> 01:38:17,920 So here's a story for you. 904 01:38:19,079 --> 01:38:21,399 I went out to the coast to do Milky Way 905 01:38:21,399 --> 01:38:23,239 pictures on this 906 01:38:23,239 --> 01:38:25,119 beautiful place called Ruby Beach, 907 01:38:25,319 --> 01:38:26,199 which is on like the 908 01:38:26,199 --> 01:38:27,920 wild Washington North Coast. 909 01:38:29,319 --> 01:38:30,399 But there's also the 910 01:38:30,399 --> 01:38:32,880 whole rainforest up there. 911 01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:34,720 And so whenever I'm in 912 01:38:34,720 --> 01:38:36,159 that area, I always... 913 01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,680 Now the whole rainforest is like going 914 01:38:39,680 --> 01:38:41,800 into a mystical fairy land. 915 01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:45,399 It is just this most amazing place. 916 01:38:46,039 --> 01:38:48,439 And for 30 years, I have taken pictures 917 01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:49,960 of the whole rainforest 918 01:38:49,960 --> 01:38:51,840 and I have never printed 919 01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:54,079 one because it has never 920 01:38:54,079 --> 01:38:56,079 done what I wanted it to do. 921 01:38:57,119 --> 01:38:59,680 And so this particular day I said, "You 922 01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:02,399 know, I think I'm going to leave... 923 01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:05,279 I'm going to just leave my big lens in my 924 01:39:05,279 --> 01:39:07,800 pack and I'm just 925 01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:09,920 going to use my mid-range 926 01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:12,039 lens and I'm going to do what's called 927 01:39:12,039 --> 01:39:13,960 intentional camera movement. 928 01:39:14,760 --> 01:39:17,279 I'm going to have a long exposure and 929 01:39:17,279 --> 01:39:19,000 move my camera around 930 01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:21,560 and see if that does more 931 01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:23,279 of what I feel in my heart." 932 01:39:24,119 --> 01:39:28,439 And so what I ended up doing was doing 933 01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:30,640 one kind of like this 934 01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:33,479 up and down of this group 935 01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:39,039 of cedar trees with all the big moths 936 01:39:39,039 --> 01:39:40,439 hanging down and stuff. 937 01:39:43,199 --> 01:39:43,960 And it did it. 938 01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:44,920 It captured it. 939 01:39:45,199 --> 01:39:48,239 It did exactly what I wanted and I split 940 01:39:48,239 --> 01:39:49,560 it up into a triptych. 941 01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:52,640 And when people look at that picture, 942 01:39:53,079 --> 01:39:54,720 they look at me and 943 01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:55,960 they say, "Oh my God, this 944 01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:56,640 is the whole... 945 01:39:58,039 --> 01:39:59,960 This is what I feel in my heart." 946 01:40:02,039 --> 01:40:02,319 Mom. 947 01:40:03,079 --> 01:40:03,359 You know? 948 01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:06,359 Another picture that I did that day was I 949 01:40:06,359 --> 01:40:07,960 laid on my back and I 950 01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:09,319 looked up at the canopy 951 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,319 and I zoomed my lens in and out. 952 01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,079 And when I looked at the picture, I could 953 01:40:17,079 --> 01:40:18,520 see a woman dancing. 954 01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:20,319 It's amazing. 955 01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:21,880 That's, you know... 956 01:40:22,359 --> 01:40:22,640 Mother and father. 957 01:40:23,039 --> 01:40:25,119 And for me, what I immediately thought of 958 01:40:25,119 --> 01:40:26,239 was Langston Hughes. 959 01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:28,520 Music is a very, very 960 01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:29,920 important part of my life. 961 01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:31,119 My mother was a pianist. 962 01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:32,479 We all learned... 963 01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:33,800 She was a music teacher. 964 01:40:34,159 --> 01:40:37,119 We all learned how to play instruments. 965 01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:42,560 And I looked up at that and I heard 966 01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:44,279 Langston Hughes's 967 01:40:44,279 --> 01:40:45,680 poem, "A Dream Deferred." 968 01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:50,880 To fling my arms wide in the face of the 969 01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:55,079 sun, to dance, dance, dance till the dark 970 01:40:55,079 --> 01:40:56,000 day is done. 971 01:40:57,560 --> 01:40:58,359 What about that? 972 01:40:59,039 --> 01:40:59,199 Okay. 973 01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:01,439 And then Sweet Honey and the Rock, which 974 01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:02,640 is this incredible 975 01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:05,680 acapella black women's group, 976 01:41:07,279 --> 01:41:08,079 put it to music. 977 01:41:09,399 --> 01:41:11,319 And so when I looked at that, I 978 01:41:11,319 --> 01:41:14,079 immediately heard them singing it. 979 01:41:15,399 --> 01:41:17,319 My mother and I did a fair amount of 980 01:41:17,319 --> 01:41:18,520 travel during the latter 981 01:41:18,520 --> 01:41:19,920 part of her life after she 982 01:41:19,920 --> 01:41:21,000 retired from teaching. 983 01:41:22,239 --> 01:41:24,560 And whenever we would go someplace, and 984 01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:26,359 particularly in a waterfall, 985 01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:29,319 she would fling her arms wide 986 01:41:29,319 --> 01:41:30,439 and twirl around and say, 987 01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:31,840 "Rosalind, take a picture of me." 988 01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,119 And so I have all these pictures. 989 01:41:35,359 --> 01:41:37,239 And so when I look at that 990 01:41:37,239 --> 01:41:39,800 picture, I see all of that stuff. 991 01:41:40,079 --> 01:41:42,399 And again, it captures a soul. 992 01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:45,760 And it's part of my Juneteenth collection 993 01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:47,039 because every year I 994 01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:48,439 pick a picture that I've 995 01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:52,520 taken over the last year and I designated 996 01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:55,079 it as a Juneteenth picture that tells the 997 01:41:55,079 --> 01:41:55,319 story. 998 01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:59,239 So just as a final thing, 999 01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:01,800 how can people find you? 1000 01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:03,760 Where can they find you 1001 01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:07,279 both physically and virtually? 1002 01:42:09,560 --> 01:42:10,640 So physically, I live 1003 01:42:10,640 --> 01:42:11,720 in Olympia, Washington. 1004 01:42:12,359 --> 01:42:13,560 And they can find you at the different 1005 01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:14,760 art fairs there, right? 1006 01:42:15,039 --> 01:42:16,319 They can find me a different... 1007 01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:16,880 Right. 1008 01:42:17,039 --> 01:42:19,560 So my next big show is my big Christmas 1009 01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:20,600 show, The Best of the 1010 01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:23,359 Northwest in Seattle, which 1011 01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:24,920 would be November 7th, 1012 01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:26,439 8th, and 9th up in Seattle. 1013 01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,800 And I actually will be featuring some of 1014 01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:32,920 my night photography as 1015 01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:34,960 well as my pictures from 1016 01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:38,600 Alaska when I went to Alaska and spent an 1017 01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:41,079 amazing two weeks up there in June. 1018 01:42:42,640 --> 01:42:44,399 My website is 1019 01:42:44,399 --> 01:42:47,039 rosalindphilipsophotography.com. 1020 01:42:47,279 --> 01:42:48,680 And of course, I'm on Facebook and 1021 01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:49,840 Instagram and you can just 1022 01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:51,920 type in "Rosalind, Phillips 1023 01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:52,560 Photography." 1024 01:42:53,880 --> 01:42:56,319 Thank you so much. 1025 01:42:57,560 --> 01:42:59,319 It was a pleasure speaking with you. 1026 01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:02,279 And thank you very much. 1027 01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:04,079 Well, thank you, Hava. 1028 01:43:04,319 --> 01:43:05,640 Thanks again for tuning in. 1029 01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:06,319 That's our episode. 1030 01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:07,920 I hope you enjoyed it. 1031 01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:10,079 And if you did, please help us out by 1032 01:43:10,079 --> 01:43:11,439 leaving a review, a 1033 01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:13,800 comment, subscribing, sharing 1034 01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:14,720 it with your friends. 1035 01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:15,960 Every little bit helps 1036 01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:17,520 and I really appreciate it. 1037 01:43:17,840 --> 01:43:20,439 And before we go, I want to give a huge 1038 01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:22,039 shout out to our sponsor 1039 01:43:22,039 --> 01:43:24,000 and producer, Art Storefronts. 1040 01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:25,960 If you've been thinking about turning 1041 01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:27,199 your art into a real 1042 01:43:27,199 --> 01:43:28,800 business or just want to level 1043 01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:31,359 up your online presence, now is honestly 1044 01:43:31,359 --> 01:43:32,960 the best time, especially 1045 01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:34,239 with the holidays selling 1046 01:43:34,279 --> 01:43:36,079 season coming up in Q4. 1047 01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:38,199 I can't stress this enough. 1048 01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:40,079 Art Storefronts isn't 1049 01:43:40,079 --> 01:43:41,279 just a website builder. 1050 01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:42,600 They're a full blown 1051 01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:44,079 partner for your art business. 1052 01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:46,600 They give you the tools, education and 1053 01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:47,680 marketing support to 1054 01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:49,840 actually make sales, not just sit 1055 01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:50,560 online and hope. 1056 01:43:51,039 --> 01:43:52,359 And if you're unsure whether your art 1057 01:43:52,359 --> 01:43:53,560 will sell, no worries. 1058 01:43:54,119 --> 01:43:54,680 Just head to 1059 01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:57,119 artstorefronts.com and sign up for a demo. 1060 01:43:57,640 --> 01:43:59,720 They'll give you a free art review and a 1061 01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:00,800 marketing assessment of 1062 01:44:00,800 --> 01:44:02,279 your art to show you exactly 1063 01:44:02,319 --> 01:44:03,039 what's possible. 1064 01:44:03,319 --> 01:44:06,199 So go to artstorefronts.com, tell them 1065 01:44:06,199 --> 01:44:07,560 how I've sent you and I'll 1066 01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:08,960 catch you on the next episode.