1 01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:03,639 [MUSIC] 2 01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,760 What happens when two artists who are 3 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:09,039 also both podcasters 4 01:00:09,519 --> 01:00:11,039 decide to film a special 5 01:00:11,039 --> 01:00:12,480 crossover episode together? 6 01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:14,679 Welcome to this episode 7 01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:15,679 of I Love Your Stories. 8 01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:17,719 I'm your host, Hava Gurvitch, 9 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,480 and today I'm trying 10 01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:20,599 something a little different. 11 01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,440 I'm joined today by a very special guest, 12 01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:25,440 photographer, former nurse 13 01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,079 practitioner turned podcaster, 14 01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:29,159 Carmen DeVayless, who 15 01:00:29,159 --> 01:00:30,519 has her own YouTube channel 16 01:00:30,679 --> 01:00:32,760 called The Art of a Meaningful Life. 17 01:00:33,639 --> 01:00:35,079 Join us for an insightful 18 01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:37,000 conversation about creativity, 19 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:38,760 courage, and finding 20 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,159 your voice at any age. 21 01:00:40,719 --> 01:00:43,320 We explore vulnerability in sharing art, 22 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,119 the challenge of balancing 23 01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,159 creative work with entrepreneurship, 24 01:00:47,719 --> 01:00:50,280 and the belief that connection completes 25 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:51,320 the creative expression. 26 01:00:52,199 --> 01:00:53,199 Carmen also shares an 27 01:00:53,199 --> 01:00:55,159 incredible full circle story 28 01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,079 from her decades in healthcare, 29 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,360 one that will make you believe in 30 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,000 serendipity and the arc, 31 01:01:01,519 --> 01:01:03,280 the long arc of gratitude. 32 01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:04,679 If you're craving 33 01:01:04,679 --> 01:01:06,679 inspiration, permission to speak, 34 01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:08,199 and the reminder that 35 01:01:08,199 --> 01:01:10,199 it's never too late to start, 36 01:01:10,679 --> 01:01:12,239 this conversation is for you. 37 01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:15,000 For a little extra context, 38 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,119 this was filmed on 39 01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:19,639 Halloween, so let's get into it. 40 01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:21,960 Now, quick word from our sponsor, 41 01:01:22,199 --> 01:01:22,960 and then we'll get 42 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:23,880 right back to the show. 43 01:01:24,119 --> 01:01:25,440 When I started selling my art, 44 01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,960 I had absolutely no idea how to actually 45 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:29,199 turn it into a business, 46 01:01:29,639 --> 01:01:30,840 a professional business. 47 01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:34,039 Then I came across Art Storefronts, 48 01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:35,800 and that was a game changer. 49 01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:38,119 I've been a customer now for years, 50 01:01:38,639 --> 01:01:41,000 and they've been instrumental every step 51 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,960 of the way of helping me succeed. 52 01:01:43,519 --> 01:01:44,920 I have a gorgeous, 53 01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:46,639 powerful commerce website, 54 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,280 I have marketing tools, 55 01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:51,360 and a membership to a 56 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,880 community that is very supportive, 57 01:01:54,679 --> 01:01:56,400 and teaches me how to 58 01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:57,719 succeed as an artist. 59 01:01:58,199 --> 01:02:00,440 Check them out, artstorefronts.com, 60 01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:02,119 and tell them how I sent you. 61 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:03,840 Hello, and welcome back 62 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,599 to I Love Your Stories. 63 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,199 I have a very, very special guest with me 64 01:02:08,199 --> 01:02:09,960 today, Carmen de Vailis. 65 01:02:11,679 --> 01:02:14,199 Carmen has her own podcast, 66 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,360 it's on her YouTube channel, 67 01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:18,039 and it's called The 68 01:02:18,039 --> 01:02:19,280 Art of a Meaningful Life. 69 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:21,239 Right? Yes. 70 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:21,679 Yes. 71 01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,039 And since we both have podcasts, 72 01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,960 we thought it would be really fun to do a 73 01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,239 little crossover episode, 74 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,840 where we'll see what happens. 75 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,400 We have something special planned for 76 01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:39,440 today, don't we, Eva? 77 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:40,599 Yes, we do. 78 01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,400 Because today, if you haven't noticed, 79 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:43,920 for those of you 80 01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,079 watching, it is Halloween. 81 01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:48,679 Because you don't normally have quite 82 01:02:48,679 --> 01:02:50,280 that hairstyle, do you have a... 83 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,159 This is my alter ego. 84 01:02:53,559 --> 01:02:53,920 My ego. 85 01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:54,960 Yeah. 86 01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:56,400 I'm just going to take this off, because 87 01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:57,360 it's getting a little itchy. 88 01:02:57,719 --> 01:02:58,960 Okay. Yeah, I'm fine. 89 01:02:59,599 --> 01:02:59,800 Yeah. 90 01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:02,079 Yeah. 91 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,039 Can we start by... 92 01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:05,159 Maybe you can tell us a 93 01:03:05,159 --> 01:03:06,480 little bit about your background, 94 01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:09,400 when you got into art, 95 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,599 and what inspires you, 96 01:03:12,599 --> 01:03:14,840 and maybe a little bit about your 97 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,159 channel, your YouTube channel as well. 98 01:03:18,519 --> 01:03:19,119 Sure. Sure. 99 01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:21,320 So yeah, I am a 100 01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,159 photographer, and I love flowers. 101 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,079 So you see a lot of flowers, nature. 102 01:03:26,639 --> 01:03:28,639 Nature to me is the 103 01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:30,119 most healing, wonderful. 104 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:32,599 I mean, that's put me in 105 01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:33,960 nature as my happy place. 106 01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,320 And I am a late bloomer with art. 107 01:03:37,679 --> 01:03:39,800 I just started like eight years ago. 108 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,079 I transitioned from being in healthcare 109 01:03:44,079 --> 01:03:46,800 as a nurse practitioner, like 40 years. 110 01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,519 And during that time, I'm 111 01:03:49,519 --> 01:03:50,840 like, "I'm all about the stories." 112 01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,440 I listened to people sometimes during 113 01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,239 some of the worst times of their lives. 114 01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:56,679 Right? 115 01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:57,920 I mean, to be real, it's 116 01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,360 some of the worst times ever. 117 01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:02,039 And I thought, how much I admired what 118 01:04:02,039 --> 01:04:03,199 they had gone through, 119 01:04:03,199 --> 01:04:04,679 and how they handled it. 120 01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,599 And I was there as a witness, and 121 01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:08,599 thinking, if the world 122 01:04:08,599 --> 01:04:09,960 could hear these stories, 123 01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:12,760 it would be such a less petty 124 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,679 and bitter place in general. 125 01:04:15,679 --> 01:04:15,840 Right? 126 01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,519 We wouldn't be bickering about some of 127 01:04:17,519 --> 01:04:18,800 the things people bicker about, 128 01:04:19,079 --> 01:04:21,559 and short-tempered, and things like that. 129 01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:24,960 And as I transitioned, I started a 130 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,239 nonprofit first thing, 131 01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:28,639 and it was all about telling the stories 132 01:04:28,639 --> 01:04:30,559 for families living through dementia. 133 01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:32,800 And I photographed them with their family 134 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,760 pets, and wrote a book, 135 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,400 because I am an overachiever. 136 01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:42,639 And then discovered on with photography, 137 01:04:42,639 --> 01:04:43,840 which had been my 138 01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:45,400 love since days of film. 139 01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,760 And I believe this podcast is a 140 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,800 continuation of those stories, 141 01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,960 because I'm so curious to hear how other 142 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,239 people find a way to 143 01:04:56,239 --> 01:04:58,039 live a meaningful life, 144 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,039 in spite of whatever is going on. 145 01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:02,480 I love that. 146 01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:03,159 Yeah. 147 01:05:03,159 --> 01:05:03,599 I love that. 148 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:04,800 Thank you. 149 01:05:05,079 --> 01:05:07,639 So is that your art behind you? 150 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:09,239 I know you said you're a photographer. 151 01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:10,559 They kind of look like paintings. 152 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:13,000 That's the biggest 153 01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:14,039 compliment you can pay, 154 01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:16,760 because my style is very painterly. 155 01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:22,000 And I use lenses to give me that look, 156 01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:24,400 which I think is how I see the world. 157 01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:26,360 My dad used to say, I saw the world 158 01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:27,760 through rose-colored glasses. 159 01:05:29,039 --> 01:05:30,840 Everything's just soft and beautiful, and 160 01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,599 that's kind of the way it is for me. 161 01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:35,119 And we need more people like D'Atnapo. 162 01:05:36,679 --> 01:05:37,599 Maybe so. 163 01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:38,239 Maybe so. 164 01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:40,760 So, Hava, listen, I am so 165 01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,119 curious to hear your story, 166 01:05:42,199 --> 01:05:45,079 because I have been admiring your work. 167 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:45,639 Thank you. 168 01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:46,599 Hava on Instagram. 169 01:05:47,039 --> 01:05:47,440 No kidding. 170 01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:53,199 So I've been painting for the past 26 171 01:05:53,199 --> 01:05:55,840 years, maybe a little longer. 172 01:05:56,079 --> 01:05:59,880 I started out pursuing art. 173 01:06:01,199 --> 01:06:02,840 I was an undergrad. 174 01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:04,760 I started in pre-med. 175 01:06:05,079 --> 01:06:10,840 Biology and psychology were probably the 176 01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:11,960 two subjects I was 177 01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,639 willing to study in college. 178 01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,679 And my parents sort of really wanted, 179 01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:19,760 they're like, you're going to college, 180 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:21,320 and you're going to study something real 181 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:22,639 so you can get a real job. 182 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:25,599 I know that story. 183 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:26,519 Yeah. 184 01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:31,519 But I took a drawing class when I was in 185 01:06:31,519 --> 01:06:32,800 college, and it was the first time that-- 186 01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,119 I mean, I've always been 187 01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:36,920 sort of artistic and creative, 188 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,239 and I wanted to be a 189 01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:39,800 fashion designer when I was young. 190 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:41,679 And my mom said, like, absolutely not. 191 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:44,760 So, yeah, right? 192 01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,519 That's why I love Halloween so much, 193 01:06:47,519 --> 01:06:48,480 because it's the one 194 01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:49,599 time a year I get to, 195 01:06:49,599 --> 01:06:51,920 you know, like, just really let my inner 196 01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:53,320 fashion designer out. 197 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,480 But I took a drawing class, and it was 198 01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:59,360 the first time in my life that I learned. 199 01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,599 Like, I learned that 200 01:07:03,599 --> 01:07:05,880 you can learn to make art. 201 01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,159 Like, I learned that you can get better, 202 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:12,000 that you can learn technique and improve. 203 01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,320 And for the first time, I sort of started 204 01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,960 to understand that art 205 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:19,880 isn't just a pretty picture 206 01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,039 on a wall, that art is a form of 207 01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:25,239 expression and about 208 01:07:25,239 --> 01:07:25,599 the whole history of art. 209 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:30,840 And it just was-- it opened 210 01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,360 up a whole new world for me. 211 01:07:33,119 --> 01:07:35,599 And I switched to the art school. 212 01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:37,679 I still love biology. 213 01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:42,679 I still love psychology, like, living 214 01:07:42,679 --> 01:07:46,760 sciences, nature, animals, all of that. 215 01:07:48,599 --> 01:07:51,039 And what's really wonderful about being 216 01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:53,159 an artist is that I 217 01:07:53,159 --> 01:07:53,360 get to make art about all 218 01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:56,840 the things that I love and all the things 219 01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:58,079 that I'm passionate about. 220 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,920 And I can study it. 221 01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,800 I can go as deep as I want to 222 01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,159 go and then make art about it. 223 01:08:07,159 --> 01:08:08,599 But I don't have to-- 224 01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,440 I'm not a scientist. 225 01:08:11,679 --> 01:08:12,679 I'm not a biologist. 226 01:08:13,079 --> 01:08:16,119 I don't have to follow 227 01:08:16,119 --> 01:08:17,600 somebody else's guidelines. 228 01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:22,760 I have creative freedom to take it in any 229 01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:23,640 direction I want to-- 230 01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,880 I can pick and choose from all the things 231 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,039 that I love, including fashion design. 232 01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:30,359 We have so many things in 233 01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:31,920 common that I didn't even know. 234 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,279 I should have taken notes here because 235 01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:35,359 that's how my memory is. 236 01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:38,319 So about three years into being a nurse-- 237 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,399 now, I had started out as a music major. 238 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:41,239 I'll say that. 239 01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,840 So I was creative in my own way and went 240 01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:45,720 to nursing school because 241 01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:45,840 I needed to support myself. 242 01:08:46,039 --> 01:08:50,279 And I liked it. 243 01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:50,840 I liked it. 244 01:08:51,039 --> 01:08:55,279 But first chance I had, I took a program 245 01:08:55,279 --> 01:08:58,439 for a clothing design, a 246 01:08:58,439 --> 01:08:59,640 degree in clothing design. 247 01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:02,680 As a woman, as a girl back then, we had 248 01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,920 only so many choices like home ec or art. 249 01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:10,920 And I did enjoy creating my own garments 250 01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,479 and drawing and painting on fabric and doing things 251 01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:17,399 in home ec. But I wasn't one of the cool kids. 252 01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:19,239 I always thought I'm not one of the cool 253 01:09:19,239 --> 01:09:20,479 kids in the art program. 254 01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,600 And I really yearned to be over there. 255 01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,079 And so for this degree, I needed to take 256 01:09:28,079 --> 01:09:32,319 drawing and color theory, which I 257 01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:34,039 realized I'm colorblind 258 01:09:34,039 --> 01:09:35,520 with the blues and the greens. 259 01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:36,680 I have trouble with tones. 260 01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:37,239 Big time. 261 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:39,359 But drawing. 262 01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:40,680 So here I'm in this class with all the women. But drawing. 263 01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:41,920 So here I'm in this class 264 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,920 with all the formerly cool kids. 265 01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:44,920 And I'm a little older. 266 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:46,479 And I wasn't. 267 01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:47,279 Now I look back and I'm 268 01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:48,399 like, I really wasn't. 269 01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:49,439 Only about four years. 270 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:50,479 But it felt like a lot. 271 01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:52,239 It felt like a lot. 272 01:09:52,239 --> 01:09:53,119 It felt like a lot. 273 01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:55,600 And they were just picking up their 274 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,039 pencils and drawing. 275 01:09:57,039 --> 01:09:59,439 And I'm like, it's sick people level. 276 01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:02,399 I don't know anything about drawing. 277 01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,079 And the teachers that I had, though, they 278 01:10:06,079 --> 01:10:07,600 would give assignments and 279 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,359 they would guide me through. 280 01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:12,359 And I think I studied and worked more for 281 01:10:12,359 --> 01:10:14,359 that class than I ever 282 01:10:14,359 --> 01:10:16,640 did in my nursing classes. 283 01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:18,119 And that says a lot because 284 01:10:18,119 --> 01:10:19,479 it's a tough program, right? 285 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,600 I was always drawing because it's 286 01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,319 something I wanted to do. 287 01:10:24,319 --> 01:10:26,720 Every week we put our 288 01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,000 finished drawing up on the board. 289 01:10:29,279 --> 01:10:31,359 And we were critiqued. 290 01:10:31,359 --> 01:10:32,920 And it was like, I'm sweating. 291 01:10:33,239 --> 01:10:33,840 I'm sweating. 292 01:10:34,359 --> 01:10:35,920 But that's when I saw 293 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:36,920 artists so subjective. 294 01:10:37,319 --> 01:10:40,079 And so it is so subjective. 295 01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,800 And those of you, I mean, I'm sure you 296 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,159 have done art shows 297 01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:46,239 and competitions and... 298 01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:46,840 Yeah, a little bit. 299 01:10:47,279 --> 01:10:48,800 Yeah, you just never know 300 01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:50,520 because there's a judge. 301 01:10:51,239 --> 01:10:55,680 And I've been actually in the position of 302 01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:56,920 being on the other end of it. 303 01:10:57,279 --> 01:11:00,239 Like I did professional portfolio reviews 304 01:11:00,239 --> 01:11:01,960 for photo festivals, like 305 01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:03,119 the Houston Photo Festival, 306 01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,279 and a couple of times in Manhattan. 307 01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:11,079 One of the things that I decided is that 308 01:11:11,079 --> 01:11:15,039 I don't want to put myself through that. 309 01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,640 Because I know how sensitive I am and how 310 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,279 personally I take rejection. 311 01:11:21,119 --> 01:11:23,960 And so the couple of times that I 312 01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:25,800 participated in an art fair, 313 01:11:27,119 --> 01:11:30,920 just sitting there with all my art and 314 01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,159 people walk by and some just like, 315 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,600 my art is just too much for them. 316 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,680 So they just like walk by. 317 01:11:38,399 --> 01:11:40,800 And then some will stop and they don't 318 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:43,199 know what to say really. 319 01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:45,920 Because they're like, wow, so much color. 320 01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:47,800 And then they'll move on. 321 01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:49,119 I'm like, okay. 322 01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:52,359 But it would affect me to 323 01:11:52,359 --> 01:11:54,159 have that kind of response. 324 01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,199 I want to tap on that. 325 01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,600 One of the things about art photography 326 01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,359 for me that I hadn't 327 01:12:01,359 --> 01:12:02,239 stopped to think about 328 01:12:02,279 --> 01:12:03,439 until I was doing it. 329 01:12:04,039 --> 01:12:06,039 And I started out doing headshots and 330 01:12:06,039 --> 01:12:09,279 social media, pictures for entrepreneurs, 331 01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:10,640 and things like that. 332 01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:12,680 And then as I started doing more 333 01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,239 landscape flowers, in 334 01:12:15,239 --> 01:12:16,800 doing more local shows, 335 01:12:17,319 --> 01:12:19,800 and the level of 336 01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,079 vulnerability that it takes. 337 01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:23,600 Yeah. 338 01:12:24,359 --> 01:12:24,560 Huge. 339 01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:27,159 Two, number one, hang your 340 01:12:27,159 --> 01:12:29,279 art and say, this isn't my art. 341 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:33,520 Or if I was photographing people to, I 342 01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:35,359 had a wall that I used to reveal, 343 01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:37,479 the reveal wall, right? 344 01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:39,079 And they could come in and I had prints 345 01:12:39,079 --> 01:12:40,960 of them and their responses. 346 01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,520 It's unpredictable because 347 01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:46,600 it's a lot about feeling, 348 01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:51,600 our memories, our experiences, and how we 349 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:52,560 feel about something. 350 01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:54,640 And it's so unique. 351 01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:57,880 And yet from the artist's point of view, 352 01:12:57,880 --> 01:12:59,279 it's like, do you like my babies? 353 01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:00,840 Yeah, exactly. 354 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:02,600 Don't you love my baby? 355 01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,840 And like, why is her baby prettier to you 356 01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,279 than my, and it is not that at all. 357 01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,159 It's just a matter of a 358 01:13:11,159 --> 01:13:14,359 calling and the event are moved. 359 01:13:15,079 --> 01:13:16,600 And I'm sure you've had this too. 360 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:18,920 I've had people walk by and stop and cry 361 01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:22,239 because it touched them in such a way. 362 01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:24,600 And I'm like, yeah, you're my client. 363 01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:26,840 Although I don't want you to cry every 364 01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,600 day, but you're moved by it. 365 01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,119 As I get older, I find that 366 01:13:32,119 --> 01:13:34,399 this part of evolution for me. 367 01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,279 So the whole part of putting yourself out 368 01:13:37,279 --> 01:13:40,279 there and I think art 369 01:13:40,279 --> 01:13:42,920 taught me that big lesson bigger 370 01:13:43,079 --> 01:13:47,560 than anything else and creating art. 371 01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:50,039 And the whole part about being creative 372 01:13:50,039 --> 01:13:52,680 is that vulnerable act and 373 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,319 learning that that's part of 374 01:13:56,359 --> 01:13:57,039 human growth. 375 01:13:57,359 --> 01:14:00,039 But that's the hardest thing too. 376 01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:05,199 I'm saying, I can both easy have a plan, 377 01:14:06,359 --> 01:14:07,920 do, and then review. 378 01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:10,760 And in that review, you decide whether 379 01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:12,479 that's for you or not. 380 01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:14,920 And not only do I look at 381 01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:16,439 the numbers, do I make money? 382 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:17,960 And it's my gut feeling 383 01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:20,159 like, did I really enjoy that? 384 01:14:21,279 --> 01:14:22,840 Back to the meaningful life, right? 385 01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:25,119 Did that bring joy to my life? 386 01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:26,800 Was it meaningful to me? 387 01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:32,079 I belong to a few art groups and we show 388 01:14:32,079 --> 01:14:34,039 our art and it's small. 389 01:14:35,159 --> 01:14:37,239 But I really enjoy the people I'm with 390 01:14:37,239 --> 01:14:38,760 and it brings me joy to 391 01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:39,600 see what people are doing 392 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:40,680 and how we're all growing. 393 01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,760 And I'm out there with other artists, 394 01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:44,039 which is a dream world 395 01:14:44,039 --> 01:14:45,600 for me after so many. 396 01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:46,800 I mean, to me, that's 397 01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,359 part of living the dream. 398 01:14:49,239 --> 01:14:50,239 There's a question that 399 01:14:50,239 --> 01:14:51,359 I love to ask my guests. 400 01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:53,760 That is, what are you most 401 01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:55,520 passionate about right now? 402 01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:57,359 Right now. 403 01:14:58,279 --> 01:14:59,880 Oh, great question, Nava. 404 01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:03,000 I'll tell you, because this is the time 405 01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:04,399 of year I'm planning next year. 406 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:06,239 So December will actually 407 01:15:06,239 --> 01:15:08,359 be the start of 2026 for me. 408 01:15:09,079 --> 01:15:11,880 Found that I spent many, many decades 409 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:14,399 silencing myself, being 410 01:15:14,399 --> 01:15:17,119 small, or some people say putting 411 01:15:17,119 --> 01:15:19,279 out my own light or what have you. 412 01:15:19,359 --> 01:15:21,359 I was pretty happy to kind of stay in the 413 01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:22,680 background and be quiet. 414 01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,920 And yet I had a lot of things to say and 415 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,479 opinions and for various 416 01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:29,840 reasons, I just did not. 417 01:15:30,319 --> 01:15:34,520 And each year I find it is more important 418 01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,680 for me to have a voice. 419 01:15:37,319 --> 01:15:39,119 I'm most passionate, I think, about, to 420 01:15:39,119 --> 01:15:42,239 answer your question, is using my voice, 421 01:15:43,079 --> 01:15:45,159 whether it be my voice through art or my 422 01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:46,279 voice through speaking 423 01:15:46,279 --> 01:15:48,159 or podcasts or other ways, 424 01:15:49,159 --> 01:15:51,800 to express the things 425 01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:52,840 that are important to me. 426 01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:54,279 I love that. 427 01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:55,600 I love that. 428 01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:00,000 If you would have said 20 years ago or 10 429 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:01,159 years ago, I would be 430 01:16:01,159 --> 01:16:02,359 doing anything like this. 431 01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:04,760 It'd be like, again, sweating bullets and 432 01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:06,279 maybe shaking a little bit and going, 433 01:16:06,279 --> 01:16:07,600 "No, no, no, I don't think so." 434 01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,039 And then there just came a 435 01:16:09,039 --> 01:16:10,600 time and like, enough is enough. 436 01:16:11,399 --> 01:16:13,760 Just like you, the courage to put 437 01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:15,199 yourself out, the courage 438 01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:16,039 to put myself out there, 439 01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:18,359 was big, big. 440 01:16:19,399 --> 01:16:21,359 I even spoke on a national stage this 441 01:16:21,359 --> 01:16:23,039 summer in a speaking 442 01:16:23,039 --> 01:16:27,600 competition, which is just so far. 443 01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,239 And I signed up for it like this time 444 01:16:30,239 --> 01:16:33,079 last year to challenge myself. 445 01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:34,199 I'm a really strong 446 01:16:34,199 --> 01:16:36,039 believer in following your passion. 447 01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,399 That's been part of my passion. 448 01:16:40,119 --> 01:16:40,640 Is it? 449 01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:41,840 I was going to ask you, 450 01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,600 what is your big passion? 451 01:16:44,119 --> 01:16:46,479 Art is part of it, but 452 01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:50,279 more as a tool, as a vehicle. 453 01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,960 For the past year, I've been spending a 454 01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,640 lot of time thinking about 455 01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,479 how everything is connected, 456 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:07,680 what I believe reality to be is what is 457 01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:09,119 reflected back to me. 458 01:17:10,119 --> 01:17:14,479 And so if I want to make a change in my 459 01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,680 life with positive, I don't 460 01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:19,000 wait for the change to happen. 461 01:17:19,119 --> 01:17:21,479 I have to live as if the change already 462 01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:23,760 happened and then reality 463 01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:25,359 catches up because it's so 464 01:17:25,359 --> 01:17:25,880 subjective. 465 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:30,600 And so I've been really passionate about 466 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:34,359 trying to live that every day. 467 01:17:35,319 --> 01:17:39,520 Some days I'm successful, other days not 468 01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,000 so much, but I try to start each day with 469 01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,479 a little meditation. 470 01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:49,039 It's a little bit of like, what is it 471 01:17:49,039 --> 01:17:51,479 that I want to manifest 472 01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,199 today in a sense of like, 473 01:17:53,319 --> 01:17:54,760 what's my best life and 474 01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,720 how can I live through today? 475 01:17:58,359 --> 01:17:59,880 What actions can I take? 476 01:18:00,359 --> 01:18:02,359 Or not just actions, it's also what 477 01:18:02,359 --> 01:18:03,880 thinking and feeling. 478 01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:04,960 Emotions. 479 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:07,520 How can I put myself in an emotional 480 01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:10,720 state that will be a 481 01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,399 representative of the life 482 01:18:12,399 --> 01:18:13,640 that I want to live? 483 01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:16,760 I end each day with a little bit of a 484 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:18,920 mental checklist of all the 485 01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:20,239 things that I accomplished. 486 01:18:21,159 --> 01:18:21,800 Because sometimes, 487 01:18:22,199 --> 01:18:24,760 especially, it just feels overwhelming. 488 01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:26,439 A lot of times I end my 489 01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:27,880 days with doom scrolling. 490 01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,159 So then I'm like, "Ah, shit. 491 01:18:31,159 --> 01:18:31,880 It's after midnight. 492 01:18:32,119 --> 01:18:33,000 I should go to bed." 493 01:18:33,319 --> 01:18:35,399 My first thought, I was like, "Man, I 494 01:18:35,399 --> 01:18:37,119 can't believe I wasted all this time." 495 01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,479 And then I just try to stop myself and be 496 01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:45,000 like, "No, I did this and I finished that 497 01:18:45,159 --> 01:18:46,720 and I got all of this done." 498 01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:47,640 It's like, "Wow, I've had 499 01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:48,880 a really productive day." 500 01:18:49,119 --> 01:18:53,000 And so I just try to end the day on a 501 01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,600 note of, I'm living the 502 01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:57,960 life that I want to live. 503 01:18:58,359 --> 01:19:02,479 And the other thing is, quite 504 01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:04,800 recently, a full-time artist. 505 01:19:05,039 --> 01:19:08,079 I left my day job last year. 506 01:19:09,079 --> 01:19:12,039 And so it's been more than a year now. 507 01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,039 And it's taken a very long time to 508 01:19:16,039 --> 01:19:19,600 recalibrate that work-life balance. 509 01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:25,119 For so long, my art was my escape. 510 01:19:25,159 --> 01:19:28,479 It was my passion. 511 01:19:29,039 --> 01:19:30,239 It was the thing that I 512 01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:31,880 would try to find time to do. 513 01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,760 That wasn't always successful and sure, 514 01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:36,279 there were stresses about it. 515 01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:40,239 But still, I intentionally 516 01:19:40,239 --> 01:19:42,640 wasn't trying to sell art. 517 01:19:43,119 --> 01:19:45,600 I wasn't looking at it as my vocation. 518 01:19:46,199 --> 01:19:47,359 So it was something like, 519 01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:48,720 "If I got to do it, I'm happy. 520 01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:50,119 If I didn't get to do it, 521 01:19:50,119 --> 01:19:51,000 I'll get to do it later." 522 01:19:51,239 --> 01:19:55,720 And then suddenly, I'm a business owner. 523 01:19:57,279 --> 01:19:59,479 And so I'm still working. 524 01:20:00,119 --> 01:20:01,880 But now, I have to 525 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:03,880 spend time on Instagram, 526 01:20:05,239 --> 01:20:08,079 looking at content, engaging with other 527 01:20:08,079 --> 01:20:10,199 creators, creating 528 01:20:10,199 --> 01:20:12,479 content, answering questions, 529 01:20:13,319 --> 01:20:14,000 putting together... 530 01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:15,399 It's a job. 531 01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:16,239 It's a job. 532 01:20:16,279 --> 01:20:20,720 And sometimes, when 533 01:20:20,720 --> 01:20:24,479 you're a business owner, 534 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:28,039 everything you do, every time you go out 535 01:20:28,039 --> 01:20:29,880 and sit in a coffee shop and 536 01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:31,680 look out the window and like, 537 01:20:32,079 --> 01:20:33,279 "Oh, that's a good idea. 538 01:20:33,279 --> 01:20:34,359 Oh, maybe I should try that." 539 01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:35,239 You're working. 540 01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:36,359 That's work. 541 01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:37,119 Yeah. 542 01:20:38,039 --> 01:20:42,800 And so, being in my studio and painting 543 01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:44,800 is not the only thing 544 01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:46,159 that counts as work. 545 01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:48,800 Everything counts as work. 546 01:20:49,279 --> 01:20:51,239 And so, when everything counts as work, 547 01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:55,199 it becomes like, "Well, when do I relax?" 548 01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:56,960 I don't have an answer. 549 01:20:57,640 --> 01:20:59,880 I want to say, "Who 550 01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:01,600 does VFREA recognize that?" 551 01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:03,680 And I've found myself 552 01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:04,960 in the very same place. 553 01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:06,800 And I thought, "Here, 554 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:08,000 I'm all about creativity." 555 01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:11,720 And my master's thesis was spirituality 556 01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:12,920 and health, which 557 01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:14,680 included creativity and a lot 558 01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:15,960 of the things you're talking about. 559 01:21:16,199 --> 01:21:17,399 How do you spend your day? 560 01:21:17,399 --> 01:21:19,760 How do you take breaks from things? 561 01:21:20,239 --> 01:21:24,359 And to fill your cup, to nurture your 562 01:21:24,359 --> 01:21:27,479 spirit and things we often take for 563 01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:29,439 granted and don't do. 564 01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:30,800 It's like last on the list. 565 01:21:31,159 --> 01:21:33,800 And so, as an entrepreneur, we're kind of 566 01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:34,840 on this hamster wheel 567 01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:36,640 all the time because, 568 01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:38,000 as a solopreneur 569 01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,319 especially, it is just you, right? 570 01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:42,600 And we're great bosses sometimes. 571 01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:44,680 Sometimes, my boss overworks me a lot. 572 01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:45,479 Oh, yeah. 573 01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,239 Yeah. I overwork and I are to be 574 01:21:48,239 --> 01:21:50,319 successful and to find a way. 575 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,359 And we're actually paving ground that 576 01:21:53,359 --> 01:21:56,640 hasn't really been driven 577 01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:59,039 before in the way that we are now 578 01:21:59,039 --> 01:22:00,600 and the resources that we 579 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,439 have and how to use those. 580 01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:06,000 And so, I recognize this in myself and I 581 01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:07,159 had to really stop and go, 582 01:22:07,279 --> 01:22:09,039 "Here I am supposedly this 583 01:22:09,119 --> 01:22:15,000 expert on taking care of myself and 584 01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:17,479 spirituality and creativity and I'm not 585 01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:18,840 even taking time out 586 01:22:19,239 --> 01:22:21,640 to make sure I'm breathing deep three or 587 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:22,880 four breaths a day." 588 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:24,760 To do the, like you're 589 01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:26,079 talking about, the journaling. 590 01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:28,119 And I started talking to other 591 01:22:28,119 --> 01:22:31,159 entrepreneurs and I found that we were 592 01:22:31,159 --> 01:22:32,319 all in the same boat 593 01:22:32,720 --> 01:22:36,399 and that constant run and struggle. 594 01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:38,159 And first of all, I was curious if people 595 01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:39,279 thought, not if they 596 01:22:39,279 --> 01:22:40,279 thought they were creative, 597 01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,359 that's an interesting thing because a lot 598 01:22:42,359 --> 01:22:43,279 of people do not and 599 01:22:43,279 --> 01:22:44,479 yet every entrepreneur is 600 01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:45,159 creative, right? 601 01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:49,119 And then, so I created this quiz about 602 01:22:49,119 --> 01:22:50,479 creativity and it's really 603 01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:52,119 what kind of creative you are. 604 01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:53,880 So, there's like four different kinds 605 01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:55,640 based to make it simple. 606 01:22:56,039 --> 01:22:58,319 And some of us have a lot of ideas really 607 01:22:58,319 --> 01:22:59,880 fast and other of us are 608 01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:01,399 more curious and kind of... 609 01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:03,399 How can someone find that quiz? 610 01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:05,119 I'll put the link in. 611 01:23:05,119 --> 01:23:05,760 I'll put the link in. 612 01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:06,800 It is live now. 613 01:23:07,039 --> 01:23:08,600 And I did a test group. 614 01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,479 Yeah, I did a test group and I invited 615 01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:13,520 entrepreneurs in and people 616 01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:14,560 I knew and they said, "I just 617 01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:15,520 need your input and I 618 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:16,399 need you to be honest." 619 01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,880 And we all took it and the comments of 620 01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,600 people, similar to what 621 01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:23,000 you're saying, Hava, although 622 01:23:23,319 --> 01:23:25,920 many of us don't even do like a minimal 623 01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:29,000 of what we need to, to peak our 624 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:30,720 creativity, to be the best 625 01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,000 at being an entrepreneur, which is what 626 01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:33,680 you're talking about. 627 01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:35,119 We're not even talking about being the 628 01:23:35,119 --> 01:23:36,520 best artist possible. 629 01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:38,479 We're like the best entrepreneur, you 630 01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:40,159 have to take the efforts 631 01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:41,800 to peak your creativity. 632 01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,199 And so, yeah, I'm starting a small group 633 01:23:45,199 --> 01:23:48,479 of entrepreneurs all around. 634 01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:49,119 It's really great. 635 01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:50,840 All around taking care of 636 01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,359 those parts of our needs. 637 01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:56,760 One of the things that I really love to 638 01:23:56,760 --> 01:23:59,600 do is kind of like a mental exercise. 639 01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:02,920 Sometimes it's a situation of you do 640 01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:03,680 something and then 641 01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:04,600 afterwards you're like, 642 01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:06,000 "Well, that was a waste of my time." 643 01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,039 Other times something happens, whether 644 01:24:09,039 --> 01:24:11,600 you feel like you had 645 01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:12,880 control over it or not, 646 01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:14,880 but it didn't go the way you wanted and 647 01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:16,720 those kinds of disappointments. 648 01:24:17,239 --> 01:24:18,439 And they happen throughout your life. 649 01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:19,079 Right. 650 01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:21,640 But what's really, really fun 651 01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:23,840 is to see where you are now. 652 01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,640 And as you look at your successes, as you 653 01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:28,600 look at your passions, 654 01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:30,600 as you look at the paths that you are 655 01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:34,000 choosing to take and then 656 01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,720 connect the thoughts back to 657 01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,359 something that maybe happened like 30, 40 658 01:24:40,359 --> 01:24:43,000 years ago, or maybe just like yesterday, 659 01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,319 that you're like, "Wow, if I didn't go 660 01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:49,239 through that, positive or negative, 661 01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:50,880 I wouldn't be where I am now." 662 01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:52,520 So it's... 663 01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:56,199 And I try to do that as much as I can 664 01:24:56,199 --> 01:24:57,560 because it really helps 665 01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:00,800 when something goes south 666 01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:02,439 in the present. 667 01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:05,479 So I'm like, "Oh, shit." 668 01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:07,880 But then right after that, sort of 669 01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,640 consciously think about like, 670 01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:14,680 "I wonder what thing in the future, what 671 01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:18,359 positive win in the future 672 01:25:18,359 --> 01:25:19,760 or direction in the future 673 01:25:20,039 --> 01:25:22,439 that I'm going to take and I'm going to 674 01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:23,720 look back and say like, 675 01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:25,840 "Oh, I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't 676 01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:26,720 for this shitty 677 01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:28,720 situation that I'm in right now." 678 01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:29,720 You got it all right. 679 01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:33,399 Last summer, I started from... My son is 680 01:25:33,399 --> 01:25:36,479 38 and I thought there's so much about... 681 01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,800 And he had a head injury, so a lot of 682 01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:41,600 earlier life he doesn't remember. 683 01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:45,039 And I thought, "I'm going to put these 684 01:25:45,039 --> 01:25:47,000 photos together and then do a voiceover 685 01:25:47,239 --> 01:25:48,880 and explain to him... To talk to him 686 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:49,920 about what was happening 687 01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:51,319 because I want him and my 688 01:25:51,319 --> 01:25:52,600 grandkids to have that." 689 01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:54,399 And I'm the historian in 690 01:25:54,399 --> 01:25:56,800 the family right now for him. 691 01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,479 And as I started going through it, I 692 01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,000 realized, I'm like, "Oh, man. Yeah, 693 01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:03,319 exactly what you're saying, Hava." 694 01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:05,119 And like, "If that hadn't have happened 695 01:26:05,119 --> 01:26:08,119 and now and how it relates..." 696 01:26:08,359 --> 01:26:08,520 Yeah. 697 01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:09,159 So, okay. 698 01:26:09,399 --> 01:26:10,159 So this is actually... 699 01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:15,600 It's one of the sort of thread themes 700 01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:19,159 through my podcasts is these kinds of 701 01:26:19,159 --> 01:26:21,239 like pivotal moments or 702 01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:26,840 transformations that began possibly as 703 01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:31,000 some kind of something negative and 704 01:26:31,079 --> 01:26:35,439 but ultimately brought 705 01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:36,600 you to where you are now. 706 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:41,239 Wow. Can you share an example? 707 01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,600 Yeah. I have one that comes to mind. 708 01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:48,119 So when I was working on this photo 709 01:26:48,119 --> 01:26:50,359 project for my son, I came 710 01:26:50,359 --> 01:26:53,239 across photos from when I was a 711 01:26:53,239 --> 01:26:57,119 neonatal nurse in... So 40 years ago. 712 01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,640 And there was a family that were my very 713 01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:02,319 first primary care and a 714 01:27:02,319 --> 01:27:03,920 preemie baby, like two pounds. 715 01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:09,600 And so back in early 80s, we didn't have 716 01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:10,880 all that we have now. 717 01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:15,000 And I was going through a very difficult 718 01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:16,560 time with my own losses 719 01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:18,039 and I'm trying to save 720 01:27:18,119 --> 01:27:21,239 other babies. And they were 721 01:27:21,239 --> 01:27:23,199 my very first primary patient. 722 01:27:24,279 --> 01:27:27,479 But the thing about the story is that 723 01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,279 this family, they had 724 01:27:30,279 --> 01:27:31,479 their trials and tribulations, 725 01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,720 and the mom was like 19 and dad, I think 726 01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:36,680 maybe 22, 23. So just a 727 01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:38,640 tad bit younger than me. 728 01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,520 They really just showed me 729 01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:43,760 what love could look like. 730 01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:47,880 And we had lost contact once the baby did 731 01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:49,399 fine, at least at that 732 01:27:49,399 --> 01:27:52,119 point. And I had lost contact and 733 01:27:52,119 --> 01:27:54,239 went on with life. And all the time 734 01:27:54,239 --> 01:27:55,479 though, 40 years, I was 735 01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:56,880 thinking, "I never thanked them. 736 01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:58,279 I don't think I ever thanked them. I 737 01:27:58,279 --> 01:27:58,800 don't think they ever 738 01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:01,000 knew what they meant to me." 739 01:28:01,239 --> 01:28:02,880 And my thought was they probably won't 740 01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:04,680 even remember me. Life 741 01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:06,159 goes on, it's 40 years. 742 01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:11,399 I had in the past looked for them with 743 01:28:11,399 --> 01:28:13,119 that one big regret. I'd never really 744 01:28:13,119 --> 01:28:14,000 thanked them or told 745 01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:17,000 them. And at last year, I just happened 746 01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:18,720 to find that 40 year old 747 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,079 baby started his own business. 748 01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,039 And he was on LinkedIn and I'm not 749 01:28:23,039 --> 01:28:24,640 positive it was him. They 750 01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:25,760 have a very common name. 751 01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:29,239 And I went back and I'm curious, right? I 752 01:28:29,239 --> 01:28:31,239 follow the trail and from 753 01:28:31,239 --> 01:28:34,000 LinkedIn, I found a page on 754 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:35,920 Facebook I thought might be his. And 755 01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,479 somebody had written a post on December 756 01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:39,720 2nd, "Happy Birthday, 757 01:28:40,039 --> 01:28:41,920 bro." And I'm like, "That's his birthday. 758 01:28:42,159 --> 01:28:44,960 That has to be him." And 759 01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:47,000 then I went, I found their 760 01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:49,640 business website and I'm looking for a 761 01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,960 phone number. And I think 762 01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:53,359 one of the... It's a real 763 01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:55,159 estate. I think one of the realtors 764 01:28:55,159 --> 01:28:57,279 looked like his dad and had the same 765 01:28:57,279 --> 01:28:58,119 name. And I thought, 766 01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:00,800 "Okay, I'm going to call." And I'm like, 767 01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:03,039 "I am. Palms are sweaty." I'm 768 01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:04,560 like, "What am I going to say? 769 01:29:05,039 --> 01:29:07,359 You might remember me from 40 years ago." 770 01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:10,760 But I just had to say, 771 01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,239 "Thank you." And I got voicemail. 772 01:29:14,199 --> 01:29:19,600 So I'm not kidding. I needed my magic 773 01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:23,039 wand because it was the 774 01:29:23,039 --> 01:29:26,119 wackiest voice message I've ever 775 01:29:26,119 --> 01:29:28,600 left because I didn't exactly know what 776 01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:29,760 to say and I wasn't planning 777 01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:33,399 it. But I did my best and I 778 01:29:33,399 --> 01:29:37,239 thought I hung up and I thought, "Well, I 779 01:29:37,239 --> 01:29:38,720 have to let that go. I doubt 780 01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:39,840 they're going to call." And 781 01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:42,800 I'm not even sure it's them. And about 10 782 01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:44,119 minutes later, my phone rang 783 01:29:44,119 --> 01:29:46,600 and it was, not only did they 784 01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:49,279 remember me, but it's like every 785 01:29:49,279 --> 01:29:50,880 Christmas we say a prayer for you 786 01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:52,600 wherever you are, you meant so 787 01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:56,239 much to us. And I'm like, "I had no 788 01:29:56,239 --> 01:29:57,840 idea." You just have no idea 789 01:29:57,840 --> 01:29:58,760 how you're going to touch my 790 01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:01,239 hearts. That's when that came back to me 791 01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:03,600 to say, "I never thought 792 01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:04,720 they would remember me." 793 01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:07,600 But not only they remember me, I was a 794 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:10,680 part of their story. And 795 01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:14,880 we ended up having a lot of 796 01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:18,159 crying with the mom and we were friends 797 01:30:18,159 --> 01:30:21,119 and we're in contact. And this was the 798 01:30:21,119 --> 01:30:22,199 story I got on stage 799 01:30:22,279 --> 01:30:24,600 with last August for that competition. 800 01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:27,720 And they came, they flew 801 01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:29,359 in from Las Vegas to Dallas 802 01:30:30,199 --> 01:30:33,960 for the day to hear our story, hear me 803 01:30:33,960 --> 01:30:36,239 tell our story. So talking 804 01:30:36,239 --> 01:30:38,279 about full circle, right? And 805 01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:40,520 I'm tracking along pretty good. I got 806 01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:42,199 three minutes to get this 807 01:30:42,199 --> 01:30:43,520 and the time is clicking 808 01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:47,600 and I'm like doing my best and it's a 809 01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,800 competition. So you know how that is. And 810 01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:51,479 I look out there and 811 01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:53,239 for the first time in 40 years, I see 812 01:30:53,239 --> 01:30:56,239 them in the audience and the mom is 813 01:30:56,239 --> 01:30:57,840 crying and pointing at him 814 01:30:57,880 --> 01:30:59,840 telling the people around them that he's 815 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:01,600 the baby that I'm talking 816 01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:04,680 about. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And 817 01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,479 so at that point, my heart, it was like 818 01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:08,520 my heart shark, it just 819 01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:10,159 exploded, right? And my brain 820 01:31:10,159 --> 01:31:15,640 straight lined. And it felt like a 821 01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,600 minute, but I'm told it was just a few 822 01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:18,520 seconds. I haven't been 823 01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:20,960 able to watch it. I have the video of it 824 01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:22,600 now. Talking about full 825 01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:25,680 circle. So the lesson, you know, 826 01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:27,600 that you just never know who you're going 827 01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:30,880 to touch or how. Yeah. And 828 01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,319 years can turn into what feel 829 01:31:33,319 --> 01:31:36,159 like minutes when someone touches your 830 01:31:36,159 --> 01:31:37,960 heart. Yeah. And it's 831 01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,439 never too late to say thank you 832 01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:43,720 or what you mean to somebody. My brain 833 01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:44,800 straight line because I 834 01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:46,159 knew I was in the moment, 835 01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,000 that pivotal moment of this is the 836 01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:50,840 miracle in my life right now. 837 01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:52,640 That's like a moment I'm never 838 01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,239 going to forget. Yeah. That's, that's 839 01:31:55,239 --> 01:31:58,279 incredible. Wow. So that was a long 840 01:31:58,279 --> 01:31:59,640 answer to a short question. 841 01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:02,239 No, it's a, it was a perfect answer. And 842 01:32:02,239 --> 01:32:03,279 you know, I was going to 843 01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:04,359 give an example as well, 844 01:32:04,359 --> 01:32:07,359 but I cannot follow. There's no way I'm 845 01:32:07,359 --> 01:32:09,359 going to follow something 846 01:32:09,359 --> 01:32:12,880 trivial after that. Instead, 847 01:32:13,199 --> 01:32:16,399 I'm going to ask another question that I 848 01:32:16,399 --> 01:32:17,880 like to ask all my guests. 849 01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:19,119 What is your definition of 850 01:32:19,159 --> 01:32:21,960 success right now and how has it changed 851 01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:26,520 over time? Oh yeah. So I'm, I'm a 852 01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:27,920 recovering overachiever. 853 01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:32,479 So success, you know, usually came in 854 01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:34,840 the, in wrapped up in the box 855 01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,159 of what I'm able to achieve. 856 01:32:39,079 --> 01:32:45,359 Success to me now would be the things I'm 857 01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:46,359 striving for. What we just 858 01:32:46,359 --> 01:32:47,680 talked for, the finding meaning 859 01:32:48,239 --> 01:32:51,359 in life and living a good life and what 860 01:32:51,359 --> 01:32:54,600 I, how the impact that I 861 01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:58,479 carry and, and taking the time to 862 01:32:59,960 --> 01:33:03,159 feel, to receive, right? Because if 863 01:33:03,159 --> 01:33:05,600 you're an overachiever and you're 864 01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:06,600 putting, putting stuff 865 01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:09,119 out there, putting stuff out there. And 866 01:33:09,119 --> 01:33:10,720 in fact, even when we think 867 01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:11,880 it's around that hamster wheel, 868 01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:15,039 right? We're not allowing ourselves to be 869 01:33:15,039 --> 01:33:16,560 quiet enough to receive. 870 01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:17,960 Can I ask you that one? 871 01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,880 I've been trying to, I mean, I like to 872 01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:23,600 say that when I was younger, 873 01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:25,760 there was a lot of separation 874 01:33:26,359 --> 01:33:28,760 between the different parts of my life, 875 01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:30,079 you know, so there were, I 876 01:33:30,079 --> 01:33:31,760 was, you know, there was a part 877 01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:34,199 of my life where I'm the artist, another 878 01:33:34,199 --> 01:33:35,840 one where, you know, I, 879 01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:38,359 whatever, you know, career I had, 880 01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:42,600 and then as a partner to someone and as a 881 01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:46,319 daughter to someone, and, you 882 01:33:46,319 --> 01:33:47,600 know, as a friend to someone, 883 01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,800 there was, I was all these different 884 01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:51,960 things and they, you know, 885 01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:53,359 they had some overlap, but they 886 01:33:53,359 --> 01:33:56,039 were like different people. And one of 887 01:33:56,039 --> 01:33:58,800 the things that, that I've been 888 01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:00,039 discovering through my own 889 01:34:00,039 --> 01:34:03,479 art and through my own sort of like 890 01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:05,920 spiritual journey is that 891 01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:09,159 everything is connected. It's 892 01:34:09,159 --> 01:34:14,199 all the same thing. And, you know, I can 893 01:34:14,199 --> 01:34:16,600 say that about, about art. Like one of 894 01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:17,840 the themes in my art 895 01:34:18,039 --> 01:34:21,800 is this idea of like repeating patterns, 896 01:34:21,800 --> 01:34:22,920 fractal patterns, and that 897 01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:24,279 the same kind of patterns. 898 01:34:25,159 --> 01:34:27,479 And, you know, through, through my art, 899 01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:29,399 I, I show these patterns 900 01:34:29,399 --> 01:34:32,000 visually, but they're not always 901 01:34:32,039 --> 01:34:34,239 visual patterns. These patterns are 902 01:34:34,239 --> 01:34:37,159 patterns that occur on all kinds of 903 01:34:37,159 --> 01:34:39,039 planes. So you can talk 904 01:34:39,079 --> 01:34:41,239 about a pattern, a similar pattern of 905 01:34:41,239 --> 01:34:45,000 like evolution or regeneration or, you 906 01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,119 know, metamorphosis, 907 01:34:47,359 --> 01:34:49,920 like these are patterns. And you can, and 908 01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:51,640 you can see those patterns in 909 01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:54,079 the life of a butterfly. For 910 01:34:54,079 --> 01:34:56,880 example, you can see those patterns in 911 01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:59,800 weather systems. You can see those 912 01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:02,199 patterns in communities. 913 01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:05,640 You can see those patterns in like some, 914 01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:06,960 like a person's 915 01:35:06,960 --> 01:35:08,680 development, a person's life. 916 01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:12,960 You know, you can see that pattern in, in 917 01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:14,640 our constellation. Like 918 01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:17,000 it's the pattern is a pattern 919 01:35:17,079 --> 01:35:20,720 and there's in it and everything works in 920 01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:21,680 the same way. There's 921 01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:23,439 connections in everything. And so, 922 01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:28,640 especially if I'm making art and I'm, I 923 01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:30,560 don't have, I don't have an 924 01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:32,000 idea ahead of time of what it is 925 01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:35,399 that I'm going to paint. I just, I just 926 01:35:35,399 --> 01:35:37,520 react to what I'm doing, you 927 01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,880 know, and, but at some point, 928 01:35:41,159 --> 01:35:45,159 whether it's just a simple flower or a 929 01:35:45,159 --> 01:35:46,880 more complex and 930 01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,640 psychedelic or abstract pattern, 931 01:35:51,079 --> 01:35:54,359 whatever it is, at some point, my brain 932 01:35:54,359 --> 01:35:55,640 kind of like clicks onto 933 01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:57,399 that pattern and I'm seeing 934 01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:00,720 all these connections. And when I see 935 01:36:00,720 --> 01:36:02,960 those connections, I 936 01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:03,960 mean, that's just like this 937 01:36:04,119 --> 01:36:07,359 magical transformative moments and they, 938 01:36:07,359 --> 01:36:08,039 they're like micro 939 01:36:08,039 --> 01:36:09,960 moments, right? They can't, 940 01:36:10,119 --> 01:36:13,680 they don't last long in like, but they, 941 01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:14,920 but just like you were 942 01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:17,760 saying, like they do for me, they're 943 01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:20,479 like time stops. And I'm in this space 944 01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:22,800 where everything comes 945 01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:24,560 together. And a lot of times, 946 01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,760 like I might have been having like some 947 01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:30,640 issue with family member or 948 01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:34,279 like to some stress or anxiety 949 01:36:34,359 --> 01:36:38,159 over some business interaction or, you 950 01:36:38,159 --> 01:36:40,720 know, world events, whatever it is, 951 01:36:41,159 --> 01:36:42,520 suddenly I'm able to put 952 01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:44,920 that into some kind of perspective 953 01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:48,199 through the art that I'm 954 01:36:48,199 --> 01:36:51,159 making. And in having that kind of 955 01:36:51,159 --> 01:36:56,359 realization that everything that happens 956 01:36:56,359 --> 01:36:57,960 and kind of comes through 957 01:36:57,960 --> 01:37:02,600 me is interconnected. And 958 01:37:03,399 --> 01:37:07,600 I'm so grateful that I have, I have that 959 01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:11,399 creative outlet to be able to process 960 01:37:12,119 --> 01:37:14,520 all that is happening and to be able to 961 01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:17,199 then look at it and gain 962 01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:20,319 knowledge or gain some, 963 01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:23,039 you know, some kind of understanding 964 01:37:23,039 --> 01:37:25,159 through that, you know, 965 01:37:25,399 --> 01:37:27,239 I'll share, sometimes it's in 966 01:37:27,239 --> 01:37:32,399 progress or it's finished and people, not 967 01:37:32,399 --> 01:37:33,720 always, some will just say, 968 01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:35,159 Oh, I love the colors, you 969 01:37:35,159 --> 01:37:37,199 know, and that's fine too, because I love 970 01:37:37,199 --> 01:37:40,439 color. But every once 971 01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:42,479 in a while, somebody will 972 01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:47,800 make a comment that like tells me that 973 01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:51,720 they really got that they 974 01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:55,119 really got what I was doing that, 975 01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:59,159 that level of communication. It's like, 976 01:37:59,159 --> 01:38:01,920 it's like one soul communicating with 977 01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,119 another soul through, 978 01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,680 in my case, a visual language. You know, 979 01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:10,039 for other people, it might be through 980 01:38:10,039 --> 01:38:11,039 music or something else. 981 01:38:11,119 --> 01:38:14,640 But when that happens, when that kind of 982 01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,000 connection happens, for me, 983 01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,600 that feels like the ultimate 984 01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:27,960 success on a less lofty plane. Success is 985 01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:31,239 just, you know, being able 986 01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:35,680 to have the freedom, the time, 987 01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:41,000 the space, the resources to make art 988 01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:44,000 makes me feel successful. 989 01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:46,159 Selling is always nice too, 990 01:38:46,399 --> 01:38:50,399 but that's the cherry on top. Yeah, well, 991 01:38:50,399 --> 01:38:52,560 we do need to have a roof over our heads. 992 01:38:53,159 --> 01:38:56,760 So what I'm hearing is like we create art 993 01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,199 for ourselves, for what 994 01:38:59,199 --> 01:39:01,760 it gives us. We create art 995 01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:05,159 for others who can feel something 996 01:39:05,159 --> 01:39:09,199 themselves. And then for even bigger 997 01:39:09,199 --> 01:39:11,399 beyond that is we create art 998 01:39:11,399 --> 01:39:15,239 to connect ourselves with others and then 999 01:39:15,239 --> 01:39:16,880 beyond that, you know, 1000 01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:18,399 with the world at large. 1001 01:39:19,039 --> 01:39:21,319 And I want to add something to that 1002 01:39:21,319 --> 01:39:23,199 because like I have so 1003 01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:24,960 like my partner, my boyfriend, 1004 01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:31,359 he, his biggest passion is music. And the 1005 01:39:31,359 --> 01:39:32,920 way when, you know, we'll 1006 01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:33,880 be listening to something 1007 01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:35,720 together. He always has to have music on 1008 01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:38,000 and it brings out 1009 01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:40,920 emotion in him. And the way he 1010 01:39:41,159 --> 01:39:44,479 discusses listening to music is just on 1011 01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,640 another level. And then I 1012 01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:49,199 have this other friend who is, 1013 01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:54,359 she loves looking at art. She loves going 1014 01:39:54,359 --> 01:39:57,439 to see concerts. She needs to be 1015 01:39:57,439 --> 01:39:58,560 surrounded with art. 1016 01:39:59,359 --> 01:40:01,439 And so the three of us were having a 1017 01:40:01,439 --> 01:40:03,920 conversation about creativity and 1018 01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:05,359 specifically about how do 1019 01:40:05,359 --> 01:40:07,920 you express your creativity? Because 1020 01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:09,640 we're all creative. 1021 01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:11,039 Creativity is part of human nature. 1022 01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:15,720 Yes. And expressing that creativity is 1023 01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:18,560 like a human need. I mean, 1024 01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:21,000 it's right up there next to 1025 01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:26,000 food shelter because in a way they were 1026 01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:27,600 sort of saying like, oh, 1027 01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:29,479 they haven't yet found their 1028 01:40:30,359 --> 01:40:34,279 creative expression. And I said, you 1029 01:40:34,279 --> 01:40:40,239 know, for one thing, when you speak 1030 01:40:41,319 --> 01:40:44,720 like, you know that if a tree falls in 1031 01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:46,720 the forest and nobody hears it, it 1032 01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:47,800 doesn't make a sound or 1033 01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:49,920 something like that. Like it's true. Like 1034 01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:52,279 on a quantum level, 1035 01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:55,439 particle needs to be observed, 1036 01:40:56,479 --> 01:41:03,319 become a particle. So if I am expressing 1037 01:41:03,319 --> 01:41:05,479 something into the 1038 01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:07,039 vacuum and no one hears it, 1039 01:41:07,119 --> 01:41:09,079 no one sees it, no one, it doesn't 1040 01:41:09,079 --> 01:41:11,279 resonate with anyone. I 1041 01:41:11,279 --> 01:41:12,239 mean, yes, it's still, 1042 01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:16,760 there is something there, but the full 1043 01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,079 connection, the full feeling of 1044 01:41:19,079 --> 01:41:20,279 accomplishment or the full 1045 01:41:20,279 --> 01:41:24,479 feeling of like success is that there is 1046 01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:27,119 somebody that receives it and it 1047 01:41:27,119 --> 01:41:27,920 resonates with them. And 1048 01:41:27,960 --> 01:41:30,199 that completes that completes that 1049 01:41:30,199 --> 01:41:33,720 expression. And like, I love 1050 01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:37,000 making art, but I don't go out 1051 01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:40,039 of my way to go to museums and galleries 1052 01:41:40,039 --> 01:41:41,720 just to look at art unless 1053 01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:43,199 I'm looking to be inspired 1054 01:41:43,199 --> 01:41:45,720 for my own art. And I realized that like, 1055 01:41:46,079 --> 01:41:48,279 for some people, being a 1056 01:41:48,279 --> 01:41:52,800 consumer of art is their way of 1057 01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:56,279 expressing creativity. Oh yeah. I think 1058 01:41:56,279 --> 01:41:58,119 it's part of, like for people 1059 01:41:58,119 --> 01:42:00,319 who love to have art around, 1060 01:42:00,319 --> 01:42:02,399 but it's not theirs, they're surrounding 1061 01:42:02,399 --> 01:42:04,000 themselves with that, 1062 01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:05,680 which inspires them. 1063 01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:08,479 Just like we might walk out in nature 1064 01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:10,119 versus going to a museum. 1065 01:42:11,119 --> 01:42:14,720 Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's, 1066 01:42:14,760 --> 01:42:17,199 I think that is like a big realization 1067 01:42:17,199 --> 01:42:20,279 because it also means if 1068 01:42:20,279 --> 01:42:22,239 you have a story to tell, 1069 01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:24,960 there is somebody out there that needs to 1070 01:42:24,960 --> 01:42:30,159 hear that story. And it 1071 01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:32,960 sometimes can take 40 years 1072 01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:36,880 for that story to be, to complete its 1073 01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:38,720 cycle, to be right. 1074 01:42:39,399 --> 01:42:41,000 Right. And to, to, to really 1075 01:42:42,039 --> 01:42:45,640 get a sense of how meaningful it was, you 1076 01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:48,399 know, and you need to 1077 01:42:48,399 --> 01:42:50,199 know how it was received. 1078 01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:56,640 That's what completes the cycle. So yeah. 1079 01:42:57,159 --> 01:42:58,159 Yeah. Maybe that's what 1080 01:42:58,159 --> 01:42:59,439 I was feeling that day, 1081 01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:02,760 right? On stage when my, it was like a 1082 01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:04,840 monumental moment and I knew 1083 01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:06,600 it. Yeah. Like I'm standing, 1084 01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:11,159 to be aware of it and something. I know 1085 01:43:11,159 --> 01:43:12,119 this got a little deep 1086 01:43:12,119 --> 01:43:13,399 today and I gotta tell you, 1087 01:43:13,640 --> 01:43:16,119 you know, I really loved it. I love the 1088 01:43:16,119 --> 01:43:17,920 two. I love talking 1089 01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:19,039 about that. That does. 1090 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:21,760 I'm really glad you reached out to do 1091 01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:24,520 this. Thank you. Oh, me too. Such a 1092 01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:26,199 pleasure. Yeah. Such a 1093 01:43:26,199 --> 01:43:28,079 pleasure. Likewise. I'm going to thank 1094 01:43:28,079 --> 01:43:31,000 all of our guests for listening and we 1095 01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:32,119 will see you soon. And 1096 01:43:32,119 --> 01:43:33,640 I would love to hear some comments. 1097 01:43:34,319 --> 01:43:35,600 Thanks again for tuning in. 1098 01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:37,359 That's our episode. I hope you 1099 01:43:37,359 --> 01:43:39,600 enjoyed it. And if you did, please help 1100 01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:40,680 us out by leaving a 1101 01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,119 review, a comment, subscribing, 1102 01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:45,399 sharing it with your friends. Every 1103 01:43:45,399 --> 01:43:47,159 little bit helps and I really appreciate 1104 01:43:47,159 --> 01:43:48,840 it. And before we go, 1105 01:43:49,199 --> 01:43:51,720 I want to give a huge shout out to our 1106 01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:53,279 sponsor and producer, Art 1107 01:43:53,279 --> 01:43:55,199 Storefronts. If you've been 1108 01:43:55,199 --> 01:43:57,159 thinking about turning your art into a 1109 01:43:57,159 --> 01:43:59,199 real business or just want to level up 1110 01:43:59,199 --> 01:44:00,079 your online presence, 1111 01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:03,159 now is honestly the best time, especially 1112 01:44:03,159 --> 01:44:04,560 with the holiday selling 1113 01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:06,239 season coming up in Q4. 1114 01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:08,960 I can't stress this enough. Art 1115 01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:11,399 Storefronts isn't just a website builder. 1116 01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:12,760 They're a full-blown 1117 01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:15,159 partner for your art business. They give 1118 01:44:15,159 --> 01:44:16,720 you the tools, education and 1119 01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:18,359 marketing support to actually 1120 01:44:18,359 --> 01:44:20,720 make sales, not just sit online and hope. 1121 01:44:21,199 --> 01:44:22,520 And if you're unsure whether your art 1122 01:44:22,520 --> 01:44:23,720 will sell, no worries. 1123 01:44:24,279 --> 01:44:26,640 Just head to artstorefronts.com and sign 1124 01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:28,199 up for a demo. They'll give 1125 01:44:28,199 --> 01:44:29,760 you a free art review and a 1126 01:44:29,800 --> 01:44:31,920 marketing assessment of your art to show 1127 01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:33,279 you exactly what's possible. 1128 01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:35,479 So go to artstorefronts.com, 1129 01:44:35,960 --> 01:44:37,600 tell them how I've sent you and