[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, concerns have got a podcast about the DC universe.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am a son of a gun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Alex God.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Justin, good, good gun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Pete, and we are coming to you with the podcast for the peacemaker season two finale.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was in this is coming a little late because Justin, I heard you are coming on this weekend, Pete.

[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly couldn't be bothered just that correct beat.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe that's what you I had this in your play You know the class, but the good news is we're taping this on a indigenous people's day aka red-said while it's a favorite holiday So it's a great [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, if you haven't watched the episode that you probably have, go watch it on HP of Aspergus or Spoilett, but this is the final episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is, we want to, I think it was sold as an extended late episode, but it is, I would say, a normal late episode versus the very short episodes we're getting previously.

[SPEAKER_01]: As we get a lot of things wrapped up here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting that you say that Alex, I disagree with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what do you have about I get late?

[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I love this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are fighting already.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when you said the phrase you said the words a lot of things wrapped up here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a lot of news here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to be generous right at the top of the episode, but just to talk about what did happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Arcus is exploring the quantum unfolding chamber throughout the episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: with Rick Flag and Luther's Goons, it turns out they are looking for a new planet that they call salvation and the goal is to make a prison planet through all, it's definitely the villainous meta-humans on, but by the end of the episode peacemaker is the first resident there on salvation except the planet is not alone.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about the DC comics.

[SPEAKER_01]: tightens that are going on there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure throughout the episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, the peacemaker jump it back a bunch doesn't want to be a hero anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't want to do anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks he's cursed.

[SPEAKER_01]: He thinks he's the angel of death.

[SPEAKER_01]: And his friends all go and talk him off the ledge.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so they do what all superheroes do.

[SPEAKER_01]: They open up a company together called Checkmate.

[SPEAKER_01]: We get a great montage of setting up an office.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty much the end of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing that happens to the big theme of the episode is we finally get the revelation of what happened on the party boat with hardcore and peacemaker turns out you're not going to believe this.

[SPEAKER_01]: They kissed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really tough.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was really tough for hardcore, but then by the end of the episode there, Boyfriend and girlfriend, not all the other.

[SPEAKER_01]: We get two full concert numbers first from Nelson, the band, and then later on from Foxy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, those are kind of the big highlights here, and I would say without even getting a two hour opinions, reaction on line to this finale has been mixed, and I get a big very generous there.

[SPEAKER_01]: let's talk about our feelings.

[SPEAKER_01]: Pete, you're our positive Pete.

[SPEAKER_01]: Peace make you Pete.

[SPEAKER_01]: You like to make peace and peace quicker.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Pete maker, if you well, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what was your take on this episode and the overall season and then just start rambling off some plot points.

[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, overall, I was very happy with this season.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love me some rom-com and man did we get some.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that was very exciting.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was an emotional episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I cried a bunch.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was really, really beautiful moments here.

[SPEAKER_00]: When did you cry?

[SPEAKER_00]: When she said, he was like, didn't mean anything to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, it meant to have red tag.

[SPEAKER_02]: Come on you had when you say that you're a sucker for a romcom.

[SPEAKER_02]: I forget how hard you actually mean that That was the very very basic gesture toward romcom and a guy you It got good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah, and I just feel like and then also the ads thing like you made me believe in miracles was very touching The like I saw an eagle hug Human I mean the come on [SPEAKER_02]: Some people wear their heart and their sleeve.

[SPEAKER_02]: Pete kicks his around like a hackie sack.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: That can peel the grape.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's ready for a gesture toward a motion.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I was super excited about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Super sad about the ending.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, like everything in the opening dance sequence came true except for eagerly killing everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a weird thing to root for.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was promised in the dance sequence, and so that was a little head scratching that that was kind of a swerve Pete, would you like to apologize to our audience for misleading them over the course of this podcast?

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot to apologize for but yes, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that that was going to be a thing and it wasn't and so I feel awful about it You know, I put a shoe by sending you a pretty idea like for the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't blame me I'm just the person watching being like well, that's got to happen, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They promise.

[SPEAKER_00]: So That is available.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we got to blame somebody.

[SPEAKER_01]: I bring up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe I get your quote unquote Daddy Yes, thank you so much [SPEAKER_01]: Was that it, Pete?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great.

[SPEAKER_01]: OK.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just a little plus.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think, you know, we talk about Dad as James Gunn.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think he's really James Fun, because he only cares about Fun, and he doesn't care about anything else.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like watching this episode, I was just shocked at what happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: The way it looked, the way the stuff that went on, the absolute dropping of everything that came before, besides the hardcore and piecemaker relationship.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just caught me so far off guard guard.

[SPEAKER_02]: It felt like James gun took the budget for this episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I'm actually just gonna have a party for everybody.

[SPEAKER_02]: It will just film it and that'll be the episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: How much do you really thought it'd take a cost to hire Nelson to be honest?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you say Nelson was there and they showed up with cameras.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, all right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably.

[SPEAKER_01]: They probably did for beer money, honestly.

[SPEAKER_02]: The music was Nelson Slim.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a fun to celebrate music and to have that kind of like...

My main takeaway is I think James Gondon is friends, probably had a great time making this episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, well, but I don't like that for tech for my TV the story and here's the thing I feel fun up like that Why not sure especially maybe in the middle or something what this was This was like if felt like they were trying to do the game of thrones thing where all the action happens in the second Alastair episode and the last episode sets up a bunch of stuff, but this one set up Nelson [SPEAKER_01]: And so, and it's just so to externally talk about it, maybe the last episode of Peace Maker, like that's what James got his set is they don't necessarily have plans for a season three.

[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, the following the story elsewhere, but for the moment that is it for the show, Peace Maker, he's not going to say never say never, or he will never come back to it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've got to save Peace Maker, I mean they build them on all of the elsewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Their show is done for this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and like the thing is it just feels like it's making me think that listen to what I just said what I don't I don't believe all I heard was so you say and there's a chance the piece maker plot line You'll see the characters again in future DCU properties.

[SPEAKER_01]: You will switch me to your chance [SPEAKER_01]: future DC of properties for the moment there is not going to be a peacemaker season three and the plot line of peacemaker will neither be picked up in peacemaker season three nor will it be picked up in man of tomorrow the upcoming super bad work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I disagree with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think what if I do think they were seeding some want more peacemaker I think that could make them make more peacemakers.

[SPEAKER_00]: James Gunn has very specifically said this being.

[SPEAKER_02]: You guys are fully in the weeds.

[SPEAKER_02]: You've never left the weeds.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're just chatting in the kitchen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Something weird, we're in the distance.

[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to hope Alex has information never the twain shall meet.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the point of the podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let me say though about this and like it definitely it to me did feel like a final episode and almost like a Throw your hands up and be like all right.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're done.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were done here two episodes ago and this is just sort of like hosting out to the end and that was upsetting because they feel [SPEAKER_02]: We got, no, we did not get answers.

[SPEAKER_02]: They were so, they worked so hard to set up the brother and the dad storyline.

[SPEAKER_02]: In this season, across the series, and they didn't even appear.

[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't believe they didn't pay off something with the brand.

[SPEAKER_01]: The big thing that I would say, like beyond what I was semi-glybly, saying earlier about this season of television, is it started really strong, and the reason it started really strong, is it knelted, [SPEAKER_01]: superhero plot sci-fi tropes with the emotion of what's going on with peacemaker.

[SPEAKER_01]: This final episode ditched the plot elements in favor of the emotion.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that the emotion is strong, but without those two trains running concurrently, the episode just does not work.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the way that they, we've talked about this all along, like [SPEAKER_01]: I think you are intubating this a little bit just and it's pretty clear over the course of the season what James gone has gone to which is a terrible impulse is what's the most fun what what what work we have what's a fun thing to do Where can we lean into that work we have some jokes work and I have fun with my friends where could I lay in some emotions and things that I feel very strongly here and that's good [SPEAKER_01]: But you have to have that basis of a consistent plot arc over the course of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like you're saying, that was ditched.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that was particularly ditched in this last episode for setting up things going forward in the DCU, leaning into emotion without the grounding of the overall plot that we've been following for the previous seven episodes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, for me, that really undercut a lot of the emotional seeds and felt [SPEAKER_01]: like there were weird swirves in here like the scene with Leota with Adabayo and her girlfriend and the scene where Daniel Brooks and they're having the whole intervention in the hotel room like I got the intention there and the emotional tension but it was such a weird swing into deadly serious drama and emotion that it didn't work for me because we had lost that other ongoing plot.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that I want to address just to be like 100% clear, there's been this ongoing push online for anybody who pushes back on this episode, be like, you're just upset there weren't camias.

[SPEAKER_01]: And to be 100% clear, I am so glad there was none of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like if they had opened up door and blew beetle and booster gold, we're steady beyond that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I'd get like that dopamine fanboy through [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm so glad that it avoided that entirely and then it was a bummer to me that they were like leaving peace maker on Salvation.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what Salvation is?

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: What does checkmate do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Who cares?

[SPEAKER_01]: All of these things that they were like, Ooh, checkmate.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't know the comics, I don't know what's going on in the show and I don't know what this company is or what the intention is or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it felt like it was throwing a lot of things in the air and letting other properties catch them.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you need to create a concrete unit, which is called peacemakers season two in order for that to be all satisfied.

[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, Pete.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to say like, you know, you bring up some interesting ideas.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the ads with her acts was really sweet, you know, opens with her playing with the dogs and then kind of being like, okay, enough of that, let's talk.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I like this breakup as far as the, hey, we have different goals, you know, we said we would do this thing together, things change.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we can't move forward, but, you know, there's still love there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was very nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't see that a lot in TV shows kind of a nice ending to a relationship that could have been something.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I liked the fact that, like, [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, like peacemakers kind of ripped from this world, but the fact that we finally got to see what happened on the boat.

[SPEAKER_00]: We finally kind of got some closure with ads and her acts, so she can move forward.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then starting this office, that montage of them going through the worlds was insane.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this kind of like a rift that happens between the workers and the people who are actually doing the work.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, is something that, you know, we see time and time again, but I, I thought it worked there, so I don't know, like I agree with what you're saying, you know, some of the things weren't tied up, but I was really happy with the relationships stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's less about the tying up than just to clarify what I'm saying like I think a lot of the individual pieces worked on their individual basis, but they didn't wrap up into a whole either for the episode or for what was initially set up in the first couple of very strong episodes of the season.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like I feel like it was like I think what you're both saying maybe is like on paper There's a lot of good ideas here like it's just the execution what I think was really odd to me like it felt very broad like [SPEAKER_02]: Especially the hardcore piecemaker romance stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: They went so, they worked so hard to set up the complicated nature of hardcore feelings with Ricky Flag and that being up some backstory there and like of course.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then we don't ever deal with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's just like, of course I love you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, oh, okay, well, and it made it just, it undercut a lot of the action more nuanced work to happen throughout the season.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I feel like, [SPEAKER_02]: not coming back to the brother and the dad and like all of that stuff and the the earth stuff which felt like what the the theme of the season was like escaping in a fake thing whether it's a metaphor for drugs or whatever advice you want to talk about and that was just sort of like ah we killed one of them and escaped and it didn't [SPEAKER_02]: sort of solve that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Instead, we got all this artist portal stuff, which has no emotional basis.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been just sort of slow boiling throughout the season, and it's about the future of the DC universe rather than the real work that was done over the course of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what it did do, which was, I thought was kind of interesting, it's, we're watching what's going to pay off, what's going to pay off, and what's going to be the thing, and it turned out like we were like, oh, shit at the beginning of the season, what's Rick Flagstein, you're going to do once he finds out about Beespecker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it turns out what he's going to do is throw him into a prison world, so he can find out how, [SPEAKER_00]: True to earth this prison world actually is and can people survive there and that kind of thing So well, maybe not the best payoff, but it was one of the chaotic things that was kind of floating around at the end So you know, and I don't mind like for the end the actual end like the idea that everything's going well for peace Matterground like well, this can't be the actual right he has to be screwed at some point And so I like I don't mind that and honestly talking positives like John Cena is so good in this show [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, even some of this like really brought writing that was given to him like was he makes it work.

[SPEAKER_02]: He just can sell so he's just like right there in the emotion.

[SPEAKER_02]: The scenes of him like sitting on this porch and outside of his motel room, I was like, I love all that like his role is really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just all the pieces around him just didn't all come together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just to shout that out for saying there's a thing where like he's in his cell and he just does this move back and it's like feet Dangle over and it's so interesting shot because it usually when you see a man who's so big it's shots of him being big But it made a huge man look small and it was such an interesting cool thing that I grew with you I think there is it's impressive what he is being able to pull off the range of his character in this [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I will plus up what Pete was saying about the romcom element that he also does that very well, like is a fucking dog.

[SPEAKER_01]: We look at hardcore at the entire time is great.

[SPEAKER_01]: You get that yearning there.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's big respectful of her and her boundaries at the same time, which is very nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: So all of that I thought was really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: it's a very interesting moment I thought what he goes through the whole intervention thing at that he snaps back into yeah but to the boat meet anything which feels like he learned nothing from any part of the season whatsoever because he's just been harping on that and pushing on that but overall I did like that stuff I do want to mention something that I do think [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I just want to just really quickly, I don't mean to do real your point here, but I just want to say if you have a slow motion dance sequence with somebody that's a thing you're not going to let go of and you're going to harp on because that's a huge moment somebody's life.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love when I slip in this slow motion feel it feels a little weird and tingly, but I like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's exciting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's drunk, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've had so much to drink everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's fucked up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's something that I got to throw out there that I think is very illuminating about this season at the show as a whole, which is, I know Pete doesn't like me talking about the other podcast here.

[SPEAKER_01]: But on the official piece, Makeup podcast, James Gunn was talking about the intervention scene in the hotel, and he started crying during the podcast, like straight up, like, couldn't finish his sentence sobbing, and the short version, you should go watch it because I thought it was [SPEAKER_01]: very surprising to see somebody be this emotional and raw on a podcast like this like you do not see that in an absolutely anything but the short version is piecebickers is dad like that's how he is writing it he is writing it about his dad and [SPEAKER_01]: All of the things that Adabayo is saying to peacemaker are things that he wishes he could still say to his dad who passed away in 2019.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the little kicker which he doesn't mention on the podcast is that his mom's name, I don't know if she's still around, but his mom's name is Leora.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that seed of Adabayo talking to peacemaker is his mom saying things to his dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't say this in a dismissive way, but like I think there's a lack of separation there where he has put so much of his heart into this show, and particularly peacemaker, heart court is his wife, you know, his plague, and these are his friends all on the set at like what I was jokingly earlier, being like it seems like you had a nice time with his friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there is a lack of separation there between, like, I'm having fun with my friends and doing this fun show, which is very earnest and joyful and lovely, versus being able to take the step back and figure out, okay, here I can have fun with my friends, but also how can I craft this as a season of television.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that makes a lot of sense hearing that because this, then this is a peak of emotionality and closeness for James God, this episode is the closest to him, but I think he pulled it sort of too close to him and it's a little loss from the storytelling like that scene in the hotel room.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, [SPEAKER_02]: where it felt so dialed up that I don't know where and it was just emotionally off to what had come before him makes sense that it was hugely important to him but the characters sort of like just like screaming emotion at each other out of nowhere and I [SPEAKER_02]: It just felt, um, awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Pete, I can see you get a reset.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, I want to emphasize like that scene of the break up scene.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought on their own are too good, very well-felt dramatic scenes.

[SPEAKER_01]: But like Justin is saying in the middle of the episode in the show, I don't think they fit.

[SPEAKER_01]: They felt like they came from another show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's an interesting point.

[SPEAKER_00]: How about this?

[SPEAKER_00]: How about the fun that they were having with Manoray facts?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that was nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can all agree that was a fun moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, and I do think there were some good jokes in here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, across the board, which I thought was cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just in the midst of so much where I was like, because there were just some bad scenes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Economist scene where he was distracting them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, come on.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was hilarious, bro.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this is funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is like a bad improv scene.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a fun of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a cool family, it's good.

[SPEAKER_01]: here's the thing that was driving me crazy about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is the blocking of that scene because he's supposed no one hundred percent seriously because he's supposed to be providing an distraction while hardcore and board dough are finding out where peacemaker is based on the top of his neck, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the setup there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Economist is standing in direct view of where hardcore to Bordeaux is are other versus like across the room So everybody's looking over there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he's standing in the place.

[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody can see what's blocking.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they can't see that really Everybody can see what hardcore to Bordeaux are doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was crazy to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, no for there.

[SPEAKER_01]: What is happening in the scene?

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was so funny because he's like turning around to them going, this is going horribly.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am not good at this and they're like, yeah, with this, you're right, you suck it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not good at this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, why was it necessary?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they could just go on a computer and do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: They could nobody's going to notice or clearly care.

[SPEAKER_00]: It felt weird, it just, I think it was funny because it was a good use of a kind of most panicking and napping able to, it's funny, it's funny, sure, I just wanted it to be funnier or more awkward or like, it just felt chunderful things.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was, this episode just felt underbaked or rushed, like to talk about the direction of it, it just like didn't look like the other episode, it didn't look good, like some [SPEAKER_02]: 90s like rom-com TV in a way that I was like this can't be purposeful Everything was just a little more loose and like I was saying that the concert shots looked really good You know, you mean the concert Lush shots film a concert movie go do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the stuff of the queue you see looked bad like everything when they open the doors looked bad It was clearly just look like a set well so much like it looked like a star trek set from like the 60s I think I said spend so much [SPEAKER_00]: They have so much money.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had to spend so much money on the different worlds, like the Skull Spider World that looked insane and that was really well done.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it looked like a screen-savered peat.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did look like a screen-savered peat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was scared of being in that world, so I thought they'd do a job.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to be in that world.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would want to be in the Zabi world, I'd definitely like to be in that world.

[SPEAKER_00]: How about the adorable Candy Land World where things eat your face?

[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen that in one million times.

[SPEAKER_00]: like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is a joke that has been done so many times has been done to death.

[SPEAKER_01]: They kept typing this up as like this is the craziest action sequence you ever see.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I have seen one million, even in James God movies.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they'll not feel like you're about anything particular, but like, tiny little things are like, oh, that's adorable.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, it's trying to eat me.

[SPEAKER_01]: find the other thing that annoyed me about that a little bit and this is definitely getting a defed commentary but the fact that they're we've been talking about in super bad they're like oh that's a fifth-dimensional imp which is clearly like Solaris in the background but okay that's interesting you mentioned imp so that they're talking about imp so the beginning of this we know what imps are for the DC universe now we see these imps [SPEAKER_01]: They're not that.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're not Mr.

Mr.

Plyssic.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're not batmite or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're tidy little creatures with teeth like in any other thing and to be as, uh, uh, just do something else.

[SPEAKER_01]: Call them something else.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can do that joke, I guess, but like, [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, that was a burger.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, one thing that maybe you guys didn't like that I enjoyed was they were like going to talk to peacemaker and then a vigilante tastes to some is like, got them, oh my god, that was fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Vigilante, vigilante is one of my like, he's the fun character here and doesn't get bogged down often in some like plot stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I loved his, [SPEAKER_02]: the line early in the show like getting really far in princess peach show time and it's not easy because she's a girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's first off true.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've played that game.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not easy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's I just the specificity of that line was spot on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're the thing that I'll say externally was the day after the peacemaker finale.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw Freddie Strobo was a surprise at the Jim Lee influence friends panel in New York Comic Con.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what he's like elsewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very serious.

[SPEAKER_01]: like every single thing he said was like yeah I'm a serious normal actor guy and I understand like people would play a part but it was just this weird discid act of being like oh that I'm pretty strong this year what jokey thing is you're gonna do and the answer was no jokey things [SPEAKER_00]: Very serious.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also like the cut of likely trained cut to vigilante where he's just in this money room Just playing games acting like he's not surrounded by money because it doesn't exist Dude, I'm gonna be like it's sturdy money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then adds being like let's turn this into something good Was a fun kind of like the way she tricked him and I thought that was great [SPEAKER_01]: can we turn from stuff that we did like the stuff we didn't like with that be okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I thought that's what you've been doing the whole time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm making a joke.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about Rick Flag.

[SPEAKER_01]: Rick Flag.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been saying this all along.

[SPEAKER_01]: What they're doing with this character is insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't mean good insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean like the connection and arc of this character over the course of several series of movies makes [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely no sense to be whatsoever, and that was driven home here at that last moment that Pete called out Does make sense to me like the line of throwing them in there and be like this is for Ricky you sort of a bitch Yeah, fine like that track to me, but all is the montage of him like laughing and joking with everybody with the Lex Luther buddies [SPEAKER_01]: What was happening there?

[SPEAKER_01]: What was going on there that has built the action to the character, not only do we see a creature Commandous, but also the character that we saw over the course of the season in peace back.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like like the other emotional scene, it was so dialed up.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, Gullish in his laughing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, is he on drugs?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess he was a little bit like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do think it brings up to something that isn't interesting thing of like, [SPEAKER_00]: talking about success, especially in like a corporate situation where there are people getting rich off of it, and then there are people who are actually doing all the work who don't see any of the benefit at all, and I like this kind of like showing the rift app and of like people celebrating who didn't do anything who are just in the office.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so as someone who's been kind of [SPEAKER_00]: doing stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I enjoyed the fact that they kind of called it out a little bit And when you say it been doing stuff like that, you're on the corporate side.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're laughing at all No, no, yeah, I'm not talking.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a rick flag Doing that corporate coke [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hear you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, again, I get what the intention was there with the scene.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think it worked or connected with what we are supposed to do about Rick Flag.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there wasn't, you can get a character with that place and that's fine where they're delved into villainy, but I don't think they've really put in enough work there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, I'm sorry, maybe it's down to Frank Grillo's performance, which is very broad and [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just didn't work and I think similarly I'd extend that to a lot of the turns for people where they gave moments specifically Langston Flurry and Sasha Bordeaux where Langston Flurry was like my best friend this guy died.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm going to be on the side of the good guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: Same thing with Sasha Bordeaux was like well I found out it was a prison pletit which anybody probably could have figured out and actually seems frankly less bad that literally [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it felt like also he was they were like Luther's the smartest person on the planet and that's when she was like what the fuck I hate him Yeah, and that was her bailout moment and I was like that's even weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's such a weird time to make a choice like that But yeah, it felt like very right early and that they needed that to happen so they just made it happen [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit unmotivated.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean the Sasha Bordeaux of it all and check me like for a comic fan I love the Sasha Bordeaux character in the comics here.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's not super used.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought she was better in this episode because she had more to do [SPEAKER_02]: Setting up Checkmate, which is a sort of worse than Argus or more intensely secretive and transactional than Argus in the comics, it's not like a fun gang hang, like they're setting up here.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just interesting to me that they emphasize that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, just my issue is why is it called Checkmate and what does this company do?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because them?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is another thing we talked about a lot of the podcast is James Gunn kind of yada yadaying past the work like the Intersting like the information that sets up the thing we talked about this with the portal thing with the QEC where they're like Okay, we got to figure out how to use this.

[SPEAKER_01]: We have figured out how to use it [SPEAKER_01]: and that was like the entire sub of the thing and like I talked about back with that episode I don't think it's necessarily fun to see adabio figure out the buttons and getting it wrong a couple of times though it potentially could be but it's the same thing here where they're like we have money and now we have set up a company and what is that company?

[SPEAKER_01]: It is a desk and chairs where they hang out and talk about animal facts I think [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I don't know why it's called checkmate like in the comics.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's set up as this whole chessboard thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got kings.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got queens running it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's different divisions and factions like you're talking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's an international spy organization here.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's called checkmate and it's a company that is going to do good.

[SPEAKER_01]: How are they going to do good, how are they going to combat the U.S.

[SPEAKER_01]: government, are they at charity?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is happening here with the group of X spies and mass murderers?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are the people they have on staff right now?

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I don't need them to provide a business plan on the screen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need them to have like a PowerPoint presentation or anything, but I need [SPEAKER_01]: I think it stands a direct contrast with like the season finale of the first season.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're at a bio got fed up with what Amanda Waller was doing and came out and gave a speech and was like, hey, this is what my mom's been doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is the illegal ship that's been going on with Argus.

[SPEAKER_01]: We got to shut it down and we got to move through the next thing and this is what's going on with the butterflies, et cetera, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_01]: it was something that pushed the plot forward, it pushed out a bio forward, it pushed her into direction, it was also clear what was going on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here they're like, company for good, are they heroes for higher, are they, like I said, a charity organization, we don't know, it's just an office space at this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could be like an A team's situation, it could be literally anything, but like, [SPEAKER_01]: give us something, give us some like bit of information.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we understand what is so triumphant about this other than they set up an office and that they get it for their first meeting or like.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what do we do?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they're breaking away from something they don't believe in to start something together that they did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's epic thought.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you rarely see a spy organization throw up a single on a building and say like, hey, we're here, we're the CIA coming out.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I'm like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, ostensibly, without the comics knowledge, it feels like checkmate would be something where they're going to check Argus and sort of undo their bad things or be ahead of them or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just so funny to be like, here's our formal office belief.

[SPEAKER_01]: make it a hideout for that end like not to think about this to realistically because obviously the world is super here as whatever but try to think about it if it was like we're going to open an organization to stop the CIA is like yeah how what what exactly goes on next what is your next move here [SPEAKER_02]: And I like the move where Tim Meadows and Judah Maser just there, but I was like, well, make more of a joke of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like music scratch like, oh, we want to be part of this too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, music picks back up with the key going like it just felt like a little like they yada yada did a little too hard for me without calling it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I wish we had Tim Meadows for the post credit sequence, which was not good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Another improvise scene that I was like, oh, you have the good players here.

[SPEAKER_02]: How are you making this?

[SPEAKER_01]: The scene of him and vigilante, the office, that should have been the post credit scene.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because it no sense in the episode as it was, but Tim Meadows, paying off vigilante to the animal faxative, gets us to be like, yes, absolutely correct.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me ask you a question.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: bird blindness.

[SPEAKER_02]: We could have paid that up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think we the tools were there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, you know, it is weird like we have the opening credit sequence, which again, the best unchallenged in my favorite part of this show.

[SPEAKER_02]: The moment when I was sad seeing thinking this was the last time I'll be with this credit sequence, when the moment where hardcore and piece maker are like touching each other's faces is so romantic.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's better than what happened in this episode [SPEAKER_02]: But when they're dancing to the theme song again, when the band playing out, like, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: doing is we just heard this a minute ago and now I think you guys didn't just felt so through the looking glass of like what I don't know it's going to happen when peacemaker got the answer and then started like dancing to the song and the motel room.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought they were going to play the wig wabs song for the first season.

[SPEAKER_01]: The do you really want to taste it because that was the theme of like celebratory like peacemaker obf at the top of that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, instead we got to watch them on a boat.

[SPEAKER_01]: So again, very nice time had by all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to mention on the Rick flag of it all.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's been this theory bouncing around that Rick flag back in creature commandos was replaced by clay face.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why he's acting so evenly in this last episode, which is like an interesting theory and maybe they could pay that off.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, I think that ties it to the idea of [SPEAKER_01]: We're sort of forgetting that a season of television needs to be a unit in and of itself and if it is revealed in the clayface movie that Rick Flag is clayface that's not satisfying for peacemakers season two.

[SPEAKER_02]: I hope they don't do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: The claypames we supposed to be like a real-time star.

[SPEAKER_01]: Real-time star.

[SPEAKER_01]: It would be great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which is not happening again.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could possibly happen maybe.

[SPEAKER_02]: One other thing I wanted to say, they were during the Dimension Hopping, and we get the, is it the same black hole from the Superman movie?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're cycling that effect, you mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, well, there's the less the lazy answer, but I feel like are they reminding us of that, because that is going to be important for a ultraman Bizarro moment that will likely come in this next move.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, let's talk about some, this is what I was gonna do talk about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some future stuff, I think for sure that they also are very clearly setting up salvation, which apparently peacemaker is not in man of tomorrow, but salvation definitely plays in in a big way.

[SPEAKER_01]: this comes from a comic book run called Salvation Run, which is I think a seven-issue series by Bill Willingham and Lila Sturge is the idea of that was exactly what happens here that the Justice League kind of gets fed up and they said all of the supervillains to this planet called Salvation where they can run and play and be joyous forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, it goes immediately wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is probably spoilers for the DCU because I'm pretty sure they're going to go on this direction as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it turns out this is actually a training ground planet for power demons or the shock troops for dark side.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's run by Dessad who is the main torture and right-hand man of dark side.

[SPEAKER_01]: And over the course of the series, a bunch of big things happen, including the breaking to factions.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a camp run by Joker, one by Lex Luthor, one by Vandal Savage.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, Marshall Badd, Hunter there, is there?

[SPEAKER_01]: It disguises at the behest of Batman, who doesn't trust it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole thing is lead up to this big event called Final Crisis, which was written by Grant Morris and the idea of Final Crisis, the way this left directly in, is the idea there is Dark Side Wins.

[SPEAKER_01]: He takes over [SPEAKER_01]: the earth and we get to see Grant Morrison's take on the final stories of all of the superheroes what he believes would be the end of that man, the end of Wonder Woman, the end of Superbad et cetera.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Pete, you have a question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so the screams then was that the pair of demons or was that people being tortured in the [SPEAKER_01]: they could go in any direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of different things going on to the comic book beyond paradigms like they have weird mechanical things going on in the center of the planet.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's I believe like some robot dog type things running around as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's [SPEAKER_01]: definitely not uninhabited.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in the DCU they could go in literally any direction to be anything, but it certainly stands to reason I would think that they're probably heading towards some sort of dark side, apocalypse type thing, and building that up in some way.

[SPEAKER_02]: My first out when I saw those noises were like, it was scary, but I bet it's other villains that have already been put there.

[SPEAKER_02]: in the salvation run style story.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I do think I don't know where we'll pick up this story at some point on the line, but I do think it is going to be like there's a potential for it to be like a suicide squad type situation on this planet.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could pick up in piece maker season three.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to pick up in the middle of the barrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's already said this is going to play it again.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to just set this, piece maker is not going to be there, salvation doesn't happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will be, they're going to follow the artist stuff as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: One interesting thing while we're talking about the future is the next TV series is lanterns which is going to have a bunch of green lanterns investigating a mystery on Earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's set for a long time, this is a big piece of kicking off the story of the DCU.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think plan's changed a little bit, but it sounds like that is going to be a piece from another direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: some sort of the setup of final crisis or potentially we've talked about with Sasha Bordeaux, there was a whole setup of infinite crisis, was this other event that also gets very complicated in terms of its execution.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I wonder if we're going to get like something there, like a dead new god, as Ben, I think, what are the big theories over on lanterns?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, gods and monsters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Title of all of this, supposedly so.

[SPEAKER_02]: feels like we need to get some gods in here pretty soon.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing to hear you describe final crisis and infinite crisis, because if you people don't know, they must be like, what the fuck is that guy?

[SPEAKER_02]: He's having a stroke of some sort.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100%.

[SPEAKER_01]: And infinite crisis, when I initially, I thought at first, I should read it to infinite crisis, and I was like, what if it was the story of that?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's a semi-sequel to crisis on infinite earth.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's this whole thing about super boy punching a continuity.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're all, and they want to break back their planet from crisis.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's just crazy how back to back those events came as one hundred percent.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're so different and they're from such different writers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the one other thing that I'll throw out there is a dot piece maker season three just to get ahead of a peat, but we've done for a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a secret TV show that they're working on that, uh, is going to be something.

[SPEAKER_01]: James got apparently it's his favorite idea that they've had.

[SPEAKER_01]: They've held it back for many announcements.

[SPEAKER_01]: but they already have at least a writer and a director working on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It may involve Rick Flag in some way.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about it here before on the podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, give it this finale.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think that potentially is?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it could be a vigilante, kind of most flurry spin-off, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if it's TV and it's coming out of this, I feel like it could be salvation run.

[SPEAKER_02]: It could be that show that, like, does that piece make her up so hard?

[SPEAKER_02]: And piece make her is popular.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're doing another show it would make sense to pick up those characters and move there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it can be a Jason with salvation going and man up tomorrow can be a Jason to that and maybe you can get a gesture there while having something and I can also see James gun being like you know it's fun a bunch of like villains sort of like or miss fits guardians the galaxy suicide squad trying to survive and fight each other on a crazy planet like that feels right up his out [SPEAKER_00]: You know, also be fun if they did piece mega season three.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: What a twist.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be.

[SPEAKER_02]: I peats call things before and they have the right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not currently.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, I agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Salvation run makes the most sense, particularly because he's talked about.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was an idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to hold back because they did want anybody to steal it.

[SPEAKER_01]: it feels like super villains on a prison planet that feels like an ideal idea that somebody else potentially could pick up.

[SPEAKER_01]: We could also see a checkmate show.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how they'd just dig that is necessarily more bureaucracy.

[SPEAKER_02]: So much your checkmate is like I'm actually very mad at the white king.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we will see on the future of the DCU and the meantime if you'd like to support this podcast and on the podcast we do patreon.com slash comic book club also We do a live show every Tuesday night at 7 p.m.

[SPEAKER_01]: to YouTube come hang out.

[SPEAKER_01]: We would love to chat with you about piece Baker Apple Spotify Android or the app of your choice to subscribe to this and follow the show comic book club live.com for this podcast and many more until next time dad do better [SPEAKER_02]: No, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow