[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to the Pluribus Podcast, where the lorehounds your guides to itemized medical billing.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're David, one of the regular hosts of the lorehounds.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Nicole, one of the hosts of Nevermind the Music.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're an affiliate of the lorehounds network.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we've teamed up to cover season one of Pluribus on Apple TV.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is our podcast covering episode eight.

[SPEAKER_02]: Charm Offensive.

[SPEAKER_03]: I see you've mastered the use of pronouns there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we, the individual known as Nancy, is our feedback coordinator.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's the hand of the pod, keep her the chronicles.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if you want to send us feedback, you can do so, pluribus at thelorhounds.com.

[SPEAKER_03]: And just a quick note, man, kindness and decorum will get you everywhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: And rude and insistent emails will get you ignored and even blocked.

[SPEAKER_03]: So please just respect the rules of a play society.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a very telling comment.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can also engage with us on our community discord where we're getting involved there as much as we can.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a really rich conversation full of really healthy, lovely conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm always reminded of how much expertise we have in our viewership in our community.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it comes through and discord comes through an email.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we love hearing from you.

[SPEAKER_03]: But there are some great theory crafting going on there as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: This week and some good callouts which we'll touch on in a little bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: We are independent podcasters and your subscriptions matter to us.

[SPEAKER_03]: It allows us to keep everything running and produce a reasonably high quality podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it also creates a community space where people on discord can talk and allows for all of the other activities.

[SPEAKER_03]: interested in available.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would encourage and welcome you to subscribe.

[SPEAKER_03]: There are links for everything in the show notes.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a little link tree.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can go to all the affiliates.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can find Nicole's other podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can find the discord.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everything is there for everyone.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nicole, we're rolling, we're barreling forward into the end of the year holiday season.

[SPEAKER_03]: How are you surviving?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm surviving.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of, you know, plates spinning.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, those like circus performers that they just get all the plates spinning.

[SPEAKER_02]: We just have to keep them spinning.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's my metaphor for teaching quite a bit that the semester gets going and you just start all the plates spinning and you just have to do the balancing act for like 16 weeks.

[SPEAKER_02]: But for my job, that ends and then the holiday spinning starts.

[SPEAKER_02]: So.

[SPEAKER_02]: I always forget about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm cutting it all together, you know, panic, panic shopping, which doesn't feel great.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't love that side of me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, more, are we need more of everything?

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's where I'm at, how are you doing?

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel yeah, we fly out for the West Coast this Tuesday.

[SPEAKER_03]: and uh...

which is going to be an interesting because episode nine the finale yeah drops the night of the twenty-third so they've advanced it so it comes out on Tuesday night at nine p.m.

east of all what's the plan for our final episode that is a good question not was [SPEAKER_03]: At some convenient point in between my travels and your family's life schedules, and then of course I'll be on a different time zone.

[SPEAKER_03]: will hop on and do like just a just a real like a reaction podcast not an analysis podcast like making that distinction where I were like I can't believe that Carol fixed the rocket to the moon and went to Mars and sent a signal to the plurbs or whatever right we'll just do do that kind of thing and then after the new year [SPEAKER_03]: I think we'll come back with a sort of a proper analysis episode nine analysis that is a season recap as well in John might join us for that great fun yeah because he he got into the show, but yeah, so it literally our analysis and season wrap is going to have to wait until.

[SPEAKER_03]: after the new year because I don't come back until the 31st and well I could do some casual recordings.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just won't have time for analytical work and that totally makes sense and I think that that's a really good plan.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to see how Walter White comes back into this whole story like so.

[SPEAKER_03]: Can you believe that the pizza made an appearance?

[SPEAKER_03]: The trash drone came and picked up the pizza.

[SPEAKER_02]: The school to down the street and cleaned it all up over there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that sounds like an awesome plan and thanks to our community for being mindful that we're three-dimensional people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was outside of this podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: We possessions do matter and yeah, I can't just fly the jet myself.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it doesn't work very well.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can't just go in and use the NPR recording studio in the Pacific Northwest area of my gosh.

[SPEAKER_03]: So for today's episode, we're going to start off with our Tepid takes, I don't know how we can get any more.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if we get hot any hotter, we will burst into flame.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some feedback from prior episodes.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some meta topic things.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited today to talk about mirror neurons.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, me too.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll get into our scene by scene and then we'll wrap it up.

[SPEAKER_03]: So what are your Tepid takes for this episode?

[SPEAKER_02]: I like this episode full stop.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm continue to be very eager for Carol and Minusos to get together.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it is a long time coming and I know that this is the arc of the season.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was very mindful, and very purposeful, and I want it.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're in mindful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very, very, very mindful.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's a way done.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's over there.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's over there.

[SPEAKER_03]: I heard six, seven is over already.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, gosh, I can't take it anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: But now it's eight nine, which is a sideways hand motion.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, that can't be right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just want them to be together and I know that the season's going to end with them getting together.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm hoping that we see a lot of their exchange and I'm hoping that it's not.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're, he shows up on her doorstep and then the end credits roll.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I need a little bit, I need some exchange between these two characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: So eager for that to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Glad the wheels are in motion there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also really concerned, I can start just a stronger, but like Zosha's just actively, they're actively manipulating Carol and maybe Carol's manipulating them too.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the lines are getting really blurry towards that manipulation and it makes me uncomfy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I understand it's efficient but like there's literally there's cops in that building for emergency preparedness like there's something they're close by like you don't need to be on the floor.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't care if you're joined consciously you have a physical body and like your back is going to hurt sleeping on the floor and that's something that everyone's going to have to deal with is that all day these back hurting.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like yes, I'm mad about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a disgrace.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's so funny that the war shark testness of this, because I was like, oh, look at the man.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's helping the ladies and that's a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Get her out of bed.

[SPEAKER_03]: And even think about the fact that he's got to go to the floor.

[SPEAKER_03]: If she had a caught, she could just sit and lay.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it just sit and lay.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, you know, wheelchair.

[SPEAKER_02]: They take her out of the wheelchair.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's so many other things you could do.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's so true.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that, like, get a hotel and take over the hotel.

[SPEAKER_02]: That everyone gets their own room.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you have like a kitchen there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have, I, I, I wrote a critique too because like heating that space.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, yeah, a hotel might be easier.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a lot of different options.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many different options.

[SPEAKER_03]: Classrooms, hospitals, malls, malls, things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, even for a drink.

[SPEAKER_02]: A furniture store.

[SPEAKER_02]: You already have all the furniture there.

[SPEAKER_02]: just like do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I had a hard time.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was great visually.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It gave a lot of like, I just watched this like Hurricane Katrina documentary.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was really beautifully made.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it gave a lot of like survivor.

[SPEAKER_02]: vibes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if something about that was really striking to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I understood it toward further narrative, but I just didn't believe it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And fair enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So those are my, I think I'll even call them hot takes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't tapeted at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel strongly.

[SPEAKER_02]: How about you?

[SPEAKER_03]: I, I'm pretty tepid.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, sorry to me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, thank you, Speaker, coffee just as you were taking a big swing there.

[SPEAKER_03]: The thing that I'm continuing to be amazed at is the time that they take to give a scene to breathe and to resolve.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm thinking of like the juice making juice and then sitting in the living room and deciding to play a game that is a huge amount of screen time for what so that we can get this sense of discomfort between Zosha and Carol and we can start to energize but.

[SPEAKER_03]: the tension, the dramatic tension that is built by those long passages of time on screens when we're very accustomed to fast cuts and vertical video and algorithmic flooding of our visual cortex and we're just like, and I guess some people in the internet are upset about the fact that they're taking their time, whatever, that's not my world.

[SPEAKER_03]: that you can have two characters on a very expensive show, sit and just be with each other and then for Carol to be authentic about the fact that I'm feeling awkward.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what to say and two human beings work it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's play a game, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, there, let's interact in something that, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't this this thing?

[SPEAKER_03]: I just really appreciate how they go about the pacing of the show in that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, at least one human being, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You said two human beings.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's illogically there.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's illogically, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's curious.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will say for me, there are times that the show moves too slow.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's for the reasons you describe, because I'm so conditioned for a faster pace.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's taken a lot of patience on my part to lean into the slower pacing of this show.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I move to under miles an hour all the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was kind of healthy to slow down.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it is just different than what we're used to consuming.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I hear your point and I agree with you that it is lovely to see.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have a stack of books on my bedside table at Kindle, and I sit down and I'll go to read and like two pages and I'll like, oh, I want to look up this thing or what times the flight or whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then to have an hour's gone, I'm on my phone and not in the book that I intended to read.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I think it's interesting that they're doing that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really interested in, [SPEAKER_03]: how the plurbs seem to be growing and how Carol seems to be growing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the fact that Zosha's teasing her makes a pass at her, all of this kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I really like that it's not just a flat two-dimensional sci-fi show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Aliens in beta earth are humans fight back.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is a complex and rich dynamic and we're seeing characters [SPEAKER_03]: and the plurbs as a character, right, are growing.

[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that Manusos can threaten violence and they don't all shut down, like they've actually been able, they were able to resist a lockout moment in there where they couldn't freak out.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's great to see that there's character development and movement in the show.

[SPEAKER_03]: I really like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the construction of the episode is interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not only is it bookended with Manusos, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: We open up in Panama and then we end where he's driving to the border.

[SPEAKER_03]: But then they've thrown in this little homage.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you picked up on this.

[SPEAKER_03]: I picked it up on our discord and then it's all over the reddit.

[SPEAKER_03]: That the diner scene is almost a shot for shot remake of a David Lynch movie called Mohol and Drive, which is all about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of things, it's a neon war, not absurdist, but fantastical thing that involves dreams and reality and the questioning, the nature of reality and identity and the scene and the diner, there are shots in the diner that are shot for shots, counts to this movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: that's cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen it, but it's on the list for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're getting a real David Lynch kick in our house.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of his later films.

[SPEAKER_03]: I surprisingly and sadly, it just missed, missed it on my, my Lynch watch list.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, cut, you can come for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's a fair call if you want to show about side with pitchforks and, uh, or just angry emails.

[SPEAKER_03]: I won't, uh, I won't, uh, dissuade you at being angry for me at that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, that the constructions of these episodes are just satisfying in that way.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you didn't know that Mulholl and Drive was a movie, you let alone that they recreated it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You don't miss anything in the show.

[SPEAKER_03]: But then for that deeper layer of digging, it's fun little Easter eggs and just that they can play with genre and these homages to all these things is just fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a rich texture of a show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like when shows do that, like Agatha all along did that as well, and that there were little Easter eggs about the universe that it lives in that if you if you know you know and if you don't you doesn't change anything for you, we can still enjoy the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a very great Can mention.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: People use.

[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, anything else for you otherwise we can jump into some feedback?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, let's get into some feedback from last episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sounds good.

[SPEAKER_03]: We got Steven in the UK, sent an email, said I was watching Carol and it reminded me of how my friend talks to his voice assistant and makes prompts.

[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously talking to an LLM.

[SPEAKER_03]: Then I thought of the different ways people see or interact with AI, some reject it totally, some embrace it, some see it as human.

[SPEAKER_03]: There was even a case where something got married to one the other [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm talking to it like a computer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: AI is connected to a high-mind full of information.

[SPEAKER_03]: Pluribus shows the different human reactions to basically a computer system, the plurbs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I talked to AI like a computer like generative AI I talked to like a search engine like a conversational search engine but there are people are falling in love they for sure are and it can't be great we use AI offered therapeutic interventions too which is kind of.

[SPEAKER_02]: interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say controversial, but it's curious.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's so many connections between the show and AI.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're not sure if that was the intention or not, but they exist.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like we can't say it doesn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's very clear.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm giving a presentation late to mid-delete January for my industry on uses of AI in our industry.

[SPEAKER_03]: both for business development and management, you know, helping to write newsletters and writing business plans or reviewing legal documentation stuff like that, as well as image manipulation, image generation, and something that came up recently.

[SPEAKER_03]: My industry is very technically involved, a lot of software and hardware things.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there was a case that I read about recently where somebody searched on the internet, [SPEAKER_03]: got a malicious ad, so somebody paid to have a ad that had malicious instructions in it, and a link.

[SPEAKER_03]: They went to that thinking it was, I'm not sure I can't remember the exact translation, you know, how they got from here to there.

[SPEAKER_03]: They got to an LLM that told them to basically unlock their computer, and so the hackers could come in and take over the computer.

[SPEAKER_03]: because they thought they were getting L.M.

[SPEAKER_03]: instructions on how to fix a problem that they had there with their computer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, my disc is too full.

[SPEAKER_03]: How do I get rid of some of the stuff?

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the L.M.

[SPEAKER_03]: said, do this and do that and open up these ports and install this software and then that person's computer got owned.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have to do my cybersecurity training for work.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, for for for doing a newsletter or, you know, I use it a lot for [SPEAKER_03]: for writing to help me.

[SPEAKER_03]: I take my ideas and it helps me strengthen ideas and things like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's very different than giving me therapeutic advice about my mental health state or the tricky computer.

[SPEAKER_02]: The first iterations of of generative AI.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, would give really bad advice and now they just refer you to outside services.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, which is appropriate in my field in higher ed AI is hugely talked about and we're in a really tricky situation because our students know more than us.

[SPEAKER_02]: and they always will, just because of generational cohorts and differences.

[SPEAKER_03]: Is there a generational theorem?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is there a information transmission theorem?

[SPEAKER_02]: There is like that like there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm joking about that, I was joking about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You were just a musician.

[SPEAKER_02]: I never went to the music you popped on to talk about generational music theorem and how generations change over time in terms of their listening and their music production.

[SPEAKER_02]: But in terms of AI for sure, [SPEAKER_02]: For me to stand up in front of a class of 20-year-olds and explain to them how AI works is like [SPEAKER_02]: not it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But what I often do is I'll like write lectures and do my own research and like prep my class material and then feed that into AI and say write me multiple choice questions right mean assessment using Bloom's text on and I have pretty guided prompts and then I use it to write do study guides and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then you can check it based on your experience and so it's not supplanting your knowledge or your experience it's augmenting it's it's it's an extra set [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we have had to change the way we do assessment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I can't say, do a take home test, or write this reflective essay, or write me an essay.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is doesn't work because they just use AI.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're calling it the return of the blue book.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, scullers are calling it so dumb.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for your feedback.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have another email from James and Vancouver.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hello from Vancouver, Canada.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just covered Laura Hounds with Severance and now I'm a Laura Hound's addict.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate both the depth, seriousness of the discussion, as well as the fact that clearly the hosts are just having too much fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also appreciate the personal anecdotes you share that make me feel feel part of the group or family.

[SPEAKER_02]: The combo of watching the shows and then listening to podcasts and hands my experience 100 folds.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's nice to hear.

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes on as a clinician and clinical researcher, consent and informed consent plays a large part of my professional life.

[SPEAKER_02]: My question is simple and I do not believe that you have addressed it, but if so, my apologies.

[SPEAKER_02]: Why do Carol and the other 12 people have to provide consent to be, quote, converted, unquote, whereas the rest of the population of the world were not given in choice?

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, realistically, even if they didn't provide their consent, once converted, would they even be aware that this conversation was done without their consent?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is this consent idea really just a fallacy?

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much in the rest of the lower house, we're providing me with so much from James.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I read James's email when it came in and James, your credentials are out of control.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was still impressive in the email signature, there's all this.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, and then just made me again a reminder of how great our listenership is and how like the breadth of research and knowledge we have in our community is humbling.

[SPEAKER_02]: So for you to be asked with your credentials to be asking us about like consent, it's like you [SPEAKER_02]: that, you know, in this, this episode that we're talking about today, there were a lot of issues about consent in this and for me it came up a lot when I was watching it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So how can consent matters in some places but not others is my question.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I agree, you know, when those planes flew over ahead and spewed these chemtrails seeds, or whatever, all over everybody, we didn't, we didn't, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, looking the donuts, like it was, if it's a biological imperative for there's them to spread, why is consent even part of the conversation?

[SPEAKER_02]: If it's a biological imperative?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think we remember the hospital scene where the doctor kisses Carol, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: No consent there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he was like, oh, somebody we missed, we've got to join her.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the 12 was at 13 individuals, 12 individuals.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I, oh my God, they're going to come for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's 12, yeah, there's 12 that are out there, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: That they're an anomaly to the biological impaired, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: The RNA sequence is only an RNA sequence.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's no information.

[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know anything about the Kepler's.

[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know, there's no back and forth communication.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's no signal, the only signal from the mothership, [SPEAKER_03]: is the RNA sequence period flat.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they're reacting in a biological instinct to spread this.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the unjoined are an anomaly.

[SPEAKER_03]: They don't know how to deal with them because there's no prior instruction for that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So then they're just going on well.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we want you to be happy or for whatever, you know, the reasons we want to keep you comfortable and happy and that's part of our imperative as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they're just kind of dealing with it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so now they're in a situation where, oh, I guess, now that you know that we're joined and you're not, we can't spontaneously do it anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like it presented them a novel problem.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they had to respond to, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: That's the only thing that I have in my head about consent or not.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you think of consent.

[SPEAKER_02]: We use the word consent to vote.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, [SPEAKER_02]: You know, can I kiss you or not?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or is this okay, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: But in research, we use the term and clinical studies in forms consent that you're not only just saying, yes, it's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: You've been briefed about what's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like what it means for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not just you're saying, yes, you're saying yes in an informed way with information.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that, it's like expressed informed consent that I've told you what I'm going to do, you know all the details and you're okay with it and they can't really offer that here.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're starting to see that in this episode like more details about what life is like.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're getting it's like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, I felt like it was manipulating Carol towards a more informed consent, because she's saying, okay, I'm gonna try sleeping on the floor with these plurbs.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna try living a life with them.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the life that she's being presented with, I don't think it's an appropriate representation.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a manipulation, and we'll talk more about that later on tonight.

[SPEAKER_02]: But James's point was really valid.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like the others, seven billion, less 12, [SPEAKER_02]: weren't given a choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: So why is it so important to Carol and the others?

[SPEAKER_02]: So thanks for your email James.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was awesome to hear.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and this is where the, I think the frame to address this in is the unjoined are an anomaly, a biological anomaly.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they're doing the best that they can [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that sounds fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'll take it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so they're like, oh, okay, fine.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we got to make sure they're happy whatever and so whatever we can analyze the choices, but I think that's the frame for Yeah, because there's no other information available to the plurbs prior than other than a RNA sequence.

[SPEAKER_03]: there's no there's no other coded transmissions.

[SPEAKER_03]: There are no death star plans.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing right it is just an RNA sequence that converted them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she says so even later in the episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: We we know nothing about the Kepler's.

[SPEAKER_02]: So James, later on today, we're going to talk about mirror neurons, so when I get it wrong, can you write in and I don't know what's right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like very much like you're smarter than me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Perfect, perfect segue into the collective research pool.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we, as the Plur Watchers, we have a follow-up voicemail from Banamana regarding the Georgia O'Keefe painting.

[SPEAKER_03]: So let's listen to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is it Bonamina?

[SPEAKER_01]: Reporting back from Ayatac on the Belladana painting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for all your great points.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love those agreed with all of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll add to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here's the research that I found.

[SPEAKER_01]: The painting has to have some sort of meaning both to Carol and to the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for Carol, I think these two flowers in juxtaposition might reflect her and Helen's personalities.

[SPEAKER_01]: One more open, one more reserved.

[SPEAKER_01]: but it also might relate to an individual, when do we present ourselves outwardly and when do we hold back?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she did with her, her fans and when she's at home, the difference between that or now in this new world is how does she present herself to the unjoined versus the plurbs?

[SPEAKER_01]: These are contrasts that are reflected in the painting.

[SPEAKER_01]: The painting also is symbolic of Carol's journey, because when the painting was commissioned, the dull pineapple company hired Georgia Okeef to go to Hawaii and paint them a pineapple.

[SPEAKER_01]: And while she's there, she paints everything but pineapples, and that's shitty paints this Belladana while she's there, which makes me think of how now Carol in this episode is.

[SPEAKER_01]: all over the place, not focused on her mission to save humanity, but instead she is living it up, shooting golf and doing whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Shooting golf is not focused on her objective anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also think there is a Shakespeare thread we can pull here with the theme of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: with the monogues and the capulettes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some sort of correlation to what really makes people different on one side versus the other.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where examining that in the show is it better to be joined or not joined or what what makes a individual different from another and the choices we make even in the our fans, how do we react?

[SPEAKER_01]: What's the difference between us?

[SPEAKER_01]: Are we monogues or capulettes?

[SPEAKER_01]: and and then finally with relation to Romeo and Juliet killing themselves with a Belladonna plant because they can't be with each other anymore that's why I think at the end right before Zostia shows up and she's called them to her she is staring at the painting and thinking maybe what's the point of living if I don't have you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, that's what I came up with.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if it's right or wrong unless I've pleared with Vince Gilligan, but anyways, she'll be shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

[SPEAKER_02]: But now, I think you're a podcaster.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I think it just happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for taking the time to report back to us.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's really committed and we appreciate you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that room.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were really interested in those connections.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to explore that more for sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: and he was podcasting from a liminal space from the attic as opposed to you know basement attic it's all you know it all worked for for the closet closet it's great for broadcasting exactly [SPEAKER_03]: something that I think is interesting as well is if like many freeze framed the whiteboards as Carol was working on them, there are some screenshots about an elixir, an elixir, an elixir, an elixir, and oh, what was the fruit called?

[SPEAKER_03]: I posted some screenshots on the [SPEAKER_03]: the discord for the the channel for the thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: The mandovian spice fruit.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's a bunch of stuff there.

[SPEAKER_03]: The shakes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, she even writes on the board Shakespeare reference exclamation point.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a checkmark of research to do's reread 12th night.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got some definite overlap.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think later we can talk about a [SPEAKER_03]: the first chapter, some people on the reddit have been thinking about how, I'm not deep in the reddit, it's just sort of catching strays here and there, but how the white caro stories and mythology [SPEAKER_03]: relate to how the show is going to work.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's some blueprint structural stuff in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've been saying that since they drove that chapter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like there is something here.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that revisiting the whiteboard beyond just, again, having whiteboard envy and, you know, dry erase marker envy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have handwriting envy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's your white board with your market didn't work and you could just make it like someone would just deliver a box of them to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's some teachers dream.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I have ever wanted.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just like unlimited white unfettered marker access.

[SPEAKER_03]: My wayboards are a mess, because they're a big ideas.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love a crisp wayboard.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very satisfying.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I started doing?

[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry to interrupt you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I use a little magnetic tiles, colored tiles, and then I write on them.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're like little rectangles or squares.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I can move them around into different positions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: To do today, priority recording this once that.

[SPEAKER_02]: If it's a mess, you know, a pro tip.

[SPEAKER_02]: Teacher tip is you can just use hand sanitizer to clean them.

[SPEAKER_02]: No one knows that and that sometimes they stay on there a long time and no and like the white point spray it's really stinky so you just use hand sanitizer and just clean it right up so Carol doesn't need it she keeps things pretty crisp right and I do [SPEAKER_02]: I'm for sure thinking about this love potion situation.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of failed references about love potions.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'd like to talk about that towards the end of our episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen my scene recap, because I think love is the key.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, which is love.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's markedly happy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I just finished the anthology, the Beatles, my wife and I finished the Beatles anthology, which is that remake of the show.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was really good.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was really insightful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll have to check it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was on the list.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still into that puffy.

[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to get Mark interested, but I think he was just like, bro, I'm so stressful.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're pretty slammed at this time here.

[SPEAKER_02]: He'll no one do it, but it's...

[SPEAKER_03]: It's all casting, you know, forget your date yet.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's take a quick break, pay some bills, and then when we get back, we'll talk some metatopics.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we are back.

[SPEAKER_03]: So let's talk some broader metatopics just really quick on the official podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: There were a couple of embedded Easter eggs.

[SPEAKER_03]: At the beginning, there is a dial tone sequence.

[SPEAKER_03]: Paper, paper, paper, paper, paper.

[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody dialing a phone, and then at the end, there's a morsch code signal to do, to do, to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is some singing chanting that sounds like it comes from a cultural tradition from somewhere around the world.

[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't easily identify it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure the reddit's have gone even further on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then there's a little signal underneath the sounds of the people singing and so, you know, those are intentional Easter eggs.

[SPEAKER_03]: The dial tone signals at the beginning translate into a phone number that you can call and you get a message from Zosa and then you can report, you can hit zero.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the system will send you a text and then it's like Apple will send you text reply.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, please, please.

[SPEAKER_03]: The blah blah blah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it sends you a contact card for your phone for pluralists with an unknown number.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's like add it to your contacts.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then ask you to unlock your computer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And install this software.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then so that was the dial tone and then some people think that the morsch code might be the RNA sequence and I didn't follow further to see if anybody's identified the singing that's going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, fun little Easter eggs.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of our users, I believe it was Sub-Zero posted in the general chat, was, yeah, was Sub-Zero, that on their Roku screen saver.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of them is this like city-skate bit sort of scrolls by and on the movie theater that's there on the marquee.

[SPEAKER_03]: It says hello comma Carol.

[SPEAKER_03]: So lots of fun little activations everywhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: A Google, if you go to Google, do a Google search and use Google something about blurbess.

[SPEAKER_03]: You get a little scroll bar at the top that says hello Carol or whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean that was a while ago.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: funds a fun little activations all over the internet.

[SPEAKER_03]: So come on to the discord and report if you if you please.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's let's save this one the idea that the joined need new things.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's save that for the scene by seeing like when we get into it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I wanted to ask you, I didn't prep you on this, but I did want to ask you a little bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: about the real world issue that we're dealing with right now known as the loneliness epidemic.

[SPEAKER_02]: the loneliness epidemic.

[SPEAKER_03]: This idea that Carol is isolated for 40 days, which we'll talk about in a second, but that the loneliness epidemic is a real world thing that we're dealing with, which is part of why I think to show it so activating, because it's for people like we're all responding to it in different ways and I think one of the things that's just showing is the [SPEAKER_03]: the fact that there's a deep loneliness that we have in our culture in at least in the industrialized cultures.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I know that we've talked a little bit here about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and I think that when you [SPEAKER_02]: take those ideas and layer the month of this loneliness epidemic, it can provide us some clarity on why we need each other and why when we don't have social connection, things get kind of wonky for us as humans.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, [SPEAKER_02]: Mezzlov said that we, in order to reach self-actualization, which means like how I think of it is to be like the best version of you, you can be.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need to have your physiological needs met, your psychological needs met, your social and belonging needs met, your esteem needs met, and then once all those things are met, then you can become the best version of you.

[SPEAKER_02]: How I teach it, which is not relatable to my students, but will be relatable to our audience.

[SPEAKER_02]: the original Nintendo Legends of Zelda game, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a fan.

[SPEAKER_02]: You might know that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I've ever played a single man of Zelda.

[SPEAKER_03]: What?

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I remember when it came out, and I remember being a thing here and there, but I, I think I age to above.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I do like comfort speed runs like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I do like, what's my flow of state?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like speed runs of original Nintendo Zelda.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much out here.

[SPEAKER_02]: that I mean, you have people, you have people, it's a Star Trek next generation legends of Zelda, love is blind, cohort, but they're here.

[SPEAKER_02]: If they're anywhere, they're here.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, mass love and Zelda, if you can go to the lower-downs for lunch, I think I found my place.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know that there's a upgrade sword behind the waterfall, like up by the mountains, like you know that, but if you've got it, so it can't be like you've been around for a year.

[SPEAKER_03]: You have, you have a whole day, you have a whole day, you have a whole day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Please.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you have access to that screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can get there at the start of the game.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you just have to traverse up to the mountains.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when you go there, they say you're not ready for this yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to get through at least level five.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need like five heart containers or six heart containers to like get that sword, even though you know where it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, if you're still with me, let's look back at like Maslow, he said that we need our physiological needs met first, that's like food and water and sleeping and eating and going to the bathroom, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: and then we need our psychological needs met, we need to make sure that we feel mentally healthy, then we need our love and belonging needs met and also our esteem needs met and a lot of people like flip-flop where those go in order depending on where you're at.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they're intimately connected though, and like what is love, like is love intimacy and is in terms of physical intimacy, like what what is that in your esteem as is the way that you present yourself to potential meets.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Once I kind of got over some stuff for myself, my relationship quality changed radically because I wasn't broken bird anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was just like, oh, I'm just kind of dude, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you like then love becomes available to you 100%.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there is that's the one that like is even I'll even say controversial now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like a lot of people think we shouldn't even be teaching mass love anymore, which I kind of agree with, but that's a different podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Different.

[SPEAKER_02]: to save that for never mind the music.

[SPEAKER_02]: Marco being mad, but this esteem love intimacy that all roots back to this loneliness epidemic.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if we don't have connection, either not just sexual connection but like friendship and intimacy and like just human touch really.

[SPEAKER_02]: According to this hierarchy, you'll never be your best self.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can never get there.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't jump over and just pick up the sword at the top of the waterfall.

[SPEAKER_02]: You have to do the work first.

[SPEAKER_02]: So our culture prevents us from getting their culture promotes loneliness and some could argue that maybe that's by design, maybe we're more vulnerable when we're lonely and we're more open to manipulation [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I can't help but overlay some points about what would be like sociological conflict there onto what's going on in Pluribus now, like she's so lonely and so thirsty for human connection and some level of intimacy, especially after these 40 days that, um, she'll she'll, um, take anything that comes to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so she's a catch, like it's not like a compromise.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and they plan to Zosa.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a structured person that they knew that she would be doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it seems like a manipulation from and like a indoctrination manipulation, a lot of bombing situation from my perspective.

[SPEAKER_02]: and it's yucky.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: So more and more on that later, but there's loneliness epidemic where we're falling victim to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're feeling less connected, interpersonally, and more like those low-nice bugs floating around, and that just generally isn't healthy for humanity.

[SPEAKER_03]: Phones and algorithms are great.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the attention economy.

[SPEAKER_03]: The currency of the realm is your [SPEAKER_03]: And if they can lock you in, they, you know, big tech can hold your attention.

[SPEAKER_03]: The longer they can hold the attention, the more the money they can make, and the more that you're in your phone, the more the less that you're with other people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're selling, they're not selling product.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're selling you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Your data.

[SPEAKER_02]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: We were just out the other night at friend of ours at a birthday.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a soul elx club that's been converted into this other sort of wellness community multi space and my friend of our good friend of ours.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was her birthday and she was having a lot of people there.

[SPEAKER_03]: And my daughter and I went and it was a school night.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I was just like, okay, you know, wife, you go and you do the whole party.

[SPEAKER_03]: You do the pre-drinks and then you come to this karaoke thing that's happening at this place.

[SPEAKER_03]: The daughter and I went there got some dinner hung out for a little bit and then went home.

[SPEAKER_03]: And getting out, getting my daughter and I both out of the house at like 630 on Hanukkah school night, right, was like, oh, man, it's cold out and Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's our friends.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to go.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we went.

[SPEAKER_03]: And as my daughter, I was a this just ramen bar has a pop up there as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: Gosh, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's karaoke and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is nice.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like we were taught.

[SPEAKER_03]: We weren't the social butterflies.

[SPEAKER_03]: There were 75 people there, whatever, it was just going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we both just felt good by being out among other people.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we did our thing, you know, we hung out in our friend game there, the little part, and then we came home and went to sleep, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was just like, oh, wow, it's so easy to get trapped in your little bubble.

[SPEAKER_03]: That actually takes energy now to break out of your bubble.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm also the time of year and it gets dark at like two in the afternoon.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's tricky, but we do have to like push through sometimes because that social interaction is very enriching to us psychologically.

[SPEAKER_03]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_03]: And when we felt that both my daughter and I felt it, we were like, this is palpable.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: really quick 40 days so when Carol was in isolation I believe technically it was a 40 day isolation which is a really interesting thing we didn't talk about at last episode but bringing it around today in the Bible 40 days is a big deal there's all lots of periods of testing and change floods, Jesus, Jonah, whole bunch of stuff, [SPEAKER_03]: And so in Judeo Christian sought and tradition, there's this framework of trial and renewal.

[SPEAKER_03]: Islam also has a 40-day traditions and whether they echoed or picked up from each other, but there's like 40-day retreats and postpartum recovery is a 40-day window.

[SPEAKER_03]: Medieval port cities used 40 days as isolation for ships that were coming from endemic diseased areas plague.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's where the word quarantine comes from.

[SPEAKER_03]: because that's cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that, you know, with the plague, it was some other, they had 30 days on the plague showed up and the incubation for that was like around 37 days, so they pushed it to 40.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's like, oh, wait, does it make sense because of the J.

J.

Christian thing and then they're like, let's do 40 because the Bible who knows.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't have to let everyone sign me because of the Bible because Bible and then so yeah, so not only is 40 days long enough for a lot of illness is to show up, but it's also you could speak to this a little bit more about habit forming and deep change that becomes a little bit stronger in behavioral patterns and habits.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we have this just narrative signaling, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody throws out 40 days.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got all of this rich structural history around the world.

[SPEAKER_03]: And now it becomes a narrative short hand in a way, just like the seasons do.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, the winter of your life or the fall or the springtime of your life, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, not quite a tutorial.

[SPEAKER_03]: People live in the equators are like, what does this fall in winter stuff?

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, anyway.

[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, it just becomes this narrative short hand.

[SPEAKER_03]: And deconstruction, and in this rebirth, and now she comes forward again, so there's just a nice little narrative structure thrown in there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that we can overlay manusosis, religious grounding, the grounding of his moral compass and religion to this 40 day piece, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of different threads that are being followed in terms of like, um, [SPEAKER_02]: a rebirth, origin story, religious based, like re-donning of civilization, even, you could get that far.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that 40 days is just enough to let the audience know, like, this is important to notice.

[SPEAKER_02]: They couldn't write any number of days.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm eager to see if that becomes more obtuse as we go through, [SPEAKER_02]: just spirituality in general.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And clever writing, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Human beings, a diverse group of people in a room, breaking story and then writing scripts, based and then embedding and layering all of this stuff and playing the What If Games, using their whiteboards.

[SPEAKER_03]: So go, oh, it should be 40 days because by all and you can make all these because Bible.

[SPEAKER_02]: We can make all these connections.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's something interesting that just occurred to me as you mentioned, Manusos.

[SPEAKER_03]: He burns his car, he's burning the ships.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when they, you know, the foreign ships show up on the shores and the men are like, you know, the crew are like, if this, we want to go back and the captain burns the ships and you're, you're committed now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, or some people say throwing your hat over offense, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: You got to go get it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, he burns his car in a narrative signaling like, there's no going back.

[SPEAKER_03]: I am only going forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's no risk here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually clocked that he was burning his car so they couldn't get his DNA.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I thought it was more like a forever in watching a lot of true crime stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe I liked it more like a forensic thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they got his blood now because that taught start of the episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: We see some blood dropping on the floor.

[SPEAKER_03]: So.

[SPEAKER_02]: and they collected it, I think at the beginning there's only dudes crocks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's crocks, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was like a microscope slide or something.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, I think it was that drop.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was dripping down.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't trust him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't trust him with them at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's for sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Real quick, let's talk about human electromagnetic fields.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is real quick.

[SPEAKER_03]: Real quick, there's a couple of electromagnetic fields.

[SPEAKER_03]: Your brain has one in your heart has one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Your brain one isn't, isn't, [SPEAKER_03]: measurable unless you attach some really sensitive equipment to it with the heart's EM field is actually detectable from a few feet away.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there is evidence that groups and individuals can synchronize their EM, you know, there is there is some degree of of research that says that this is true.

[SPEAKER_03]: and that, you know, the sort of passive regulation, you know, you sort of fall into sync with people that you're around.

[SPEAKER_03]: However, the fields are weak.

[SPEAKER_03]: The effects aren't necessarily consistent.

[SPEAKER_03]: So then you open up this idea, okay, so how are the plurbs communicating?

[SPEAKER_03]: how far is the radio sequence?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is it detecting people in space?

[SPEAKER_03]: So I can people in the space station figure talk to the people on Earth.

[SPEAKER_03]: It seems like there's a lot of distance and there's probably a lot of gaps.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, how do you...

Where did she say the guy who got hurt on the fence was in...

Like, in South America or something?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I was in Europe or in the country.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, like, how do you get the gap of the ocean, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: How is this?

[SPEAKER_03]: There's some fun ideas in there, and there's a sci-fi element to the show, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So at some point, there is a sci-fi conceit.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the fact that we do have a weak electromagnetic field, both cranial and cardiac, and that those are measurable, and there is some degree of synchronization.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if you can modulate a signal, then you can send [SPEAKER_03]: a, uh, you can send information in that modulation.

[SPEAKER_03]: Morse code is modulation of a signal.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are Benson studies that show that a human's electromagnetic field can be mapped back to their emotional state in terms of like what it looks like.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you can see.

[SPEAKER_02]: body scans of someone that's happier, sad, or angry, or pensive, and their electromagnetic field changes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And even more casually, we can just say, we feel it as vibes.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if somebody's nervous, you'll feel nervous.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that is because of this and also because of mirrored neurons, and I know what to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look at you, segue.

[SPEAKER_02]: Look at that segue.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ladies and [SPEAKER_02]: beyond this electromagnetic energy that we put forth.

[SPEAKER_02]: We also have things in our brains that allow us to feel what other people are feeling and not in a DNA troi telepathy sort of way.

[SPEAKER_02]: But in like it's very very tangible.

[SPEAKER_02]: So [SPEAKER_02]: researchers first observed this they were doing brain scans on primates like monkeys to determine something I don't know what it's irrelevant and they had the monkeys hooked up to these fancy brain machines that you spoke about before that measure our brain signals and measure our neurolectivity [SPEAKER_02]: And then they took a break, and the monkeys were still hooked up, and the researchers started eating their lunch.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then they looked at the screens and realized the monkeys part of the brain that activates when the monkeys eating lunch was activated by the monkeys watching the researchers eat their lunch.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, what a moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: That.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just like this thing that they found.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that led to further research on [SPEAKER_02]: What mirror neurons do is, if you see someone happy, you'll feel happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you see someone angry, you'll feel angry.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we have different mirror systems, the periode, frontal mirror system where these mirror neurons are activated in our, [SPEAKER_02]: parietal lobe, which is like the middle of our brain and our frontal lobe, which is obviously the front part of our brain.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our frontal lobe helps us regulate decision-making and our parietal lobe helps us make sense of the world around us, like the input of our senses almost.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when we see mirror, mirror, or mirror on activity in that system, it helps us understand [SPEAKER_02]: Marinarns was the strong connection to empathy, and we have two different forms of empathy as humans.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have cognitive empathy that just allows us to understand what a person's motivations are.

[SPEAKER_02]: We also have affective empathy, which helps us feel how other people feel.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this affective empathy is rooted in [SPEAKER_02]: the neuron activity in our limbic system, which is in like the middle of our brain with our hippocampus, and our amygdala and all the things that make us truly us.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a Nicole point of view.

[SPEAKER_02]: When that leads us to affective empathy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, this means that most mariners care about not just like the physical mechanics of an action, but people's motivation and that helps us understand why people do the things they do and lead us to a greater understanding of human empathy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now, another interesting point about mirror neurons, and I'm not sure it's relevant to pluralists, but it's just like a really interesting fact, is that we talk about, you know, everything I just said is under the understanding that you don't really have a lot of neuro divergencies in your presentation, that you're more neuro-normative, just kind of loaded, but we're just going to go with that term here.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you mean, or you, is just like in general, [SPEAKER_03]: you are a deep, this is the default framework construction.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this is like the statistical normal of young grains.

[SPEAKER_02]: Folks that are outliers, that statistical normal will come near our divergent.

[SPEAKER_02]: So there are several areas of neuro divergencies.

[SPEAKER_02]: People on the autism spectrum have less mirror neuro activity than statistically, quote, so loaded, but normal brain.

[SPEAKER_02]: which makes sense, if you work with kids that are autistic or kids that have autism, you know that they don't understand human emotion in the same way, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That they won't understand why people's behaviors are the way they are.

[SPEAKER_02]: They need like verbally explained, and that's fine, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll explain it.

[SPEAKER_02]: We also know that folks, I think ADHD is a spectrum, [SPEAKER_02]: live with ADHD, have a far more, far more mirroring or an activity than the norm.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting, which is super interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that might explain why folks with ADHD might be more sensitive to people's emotions.

[SPEAKER_02]: In particular, an empathetic.

[SPEAKER_03]: I noticed that there is a taking on of the energy in the brain, where it is, you mean, exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, more readily, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, more.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, a kid with autism might need it explained and that in like very obtusely explained to them and that's okay, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So we think about These like neurodivergencies as outliers, but really there's a lot of superpower that's within these quote diagnoses that It's much more common than we actually [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we were at a school all-school thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Our school gets together.

[SPEAKER_03]: All parents and caregivers and adults and kids' lives can all calm.

[SPEAKER_03]: When the gymnasium and the choir sings in the band plays, and we just do a community gathering of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I noticed the other day, the number of kids who were wearing some kind of ear per turn was like, whoa, in my day, we never would have had that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just a recognition that, [SPEAKER_03]: You know, these different kinds of sensitivities and neurodivergences are not as divergent as the word divergent would let us believe it's a lot more common.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was just struck so many kids wearing headphones.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when we think about neurodivergencies and autism.

[SPEAKER_02]: and mirror neurons.

[SPEAKER_02]: I need to shout out a podcast not in our network.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need to check out the telepathy tapes.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a podcast that I'm looking it up right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so fascinating and offers such a different perspective on folks on the spectrum on the autism spectrum.

[SPEAKER_02]: because now, because of technology, a lot of non-verbal kids are able to communicate through iPads and other devices.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in that communication, we're learning that they're [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds so cavalier to say, but they're telepathic.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they're reading my book, and now they're like, they're saying things on the AACs, the device is like, I'm in here.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I know that we have chips in the pantry, you're hiding them for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I know that you are to their parents and things, and they're, that's so cavalier to say it that way, but they're also, they took this information and started doing experimental research, and testing this theory, and proving that, [SPEAKER_02]: kids with autism or telepathic.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's wild.

[SPEAKER_03]: So telepathic or mirror, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a, so, so take this into a wildlife frame real quick and mammalian terrestrial wildlife just to be specific for Marx purposes.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's always been a question of how to pack animals hunt.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: how does a pride of lions hunt in a coordinated fashion where there'll be an ambush, there'll be other ones that flush the prey.

[SPEAKER_03]: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're meant because their brains have the same sort of structural, at least in their case, it's probably structural.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right, there's a degree of learned behavior and there's a degree of structural stuff going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: So telepathy in the sense of, I can read your thoughts from a doctor, x standpoint versus whatever all the non-verbal cues that are being built on.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, this is, I'm telling you, this is Dr.

x.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's happening?

[SPEAKER_03]: These kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need to listen to this podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a game changer.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a game changer for how we address this population.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, a million percent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like sci-fi, but it's backed in and pretty reliable and valid research.

[SPEAKER_02]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm mirroring your, I'm, I'm taking on your authority.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure if you, if you've, listeners, if you've checked out the telepathy tapes, [SPEAKER_02]: prove me right, right, and I'm discord right, right, so it's like it's the game changer for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've gotten off topic.

[SPEAKER_03]: But what, but everything's weird.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when we look at that in the frame of the show, [SPEAKER_03]: you know, mirror neurons, how do the plurbs work, how do they communicate through these you know electromagnetic fields, carols responses to after being 40 days isolated and needing just other human physiology, and that our brains really need that.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're not using a part of ourselves when there's a part of our brain that not being activated when we're not around other human beings, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's an important part of our psychology is to you don't have to interact with people, but you need to be around people.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Marin earns it is like you need to be around other people.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just watching the Golden Girls or reading books.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you need you need them in front of you for the most part.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fascinating.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's take a quick break and then we come back we can get into our scene by scene because it's only been an hour into the podcast so far.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we're back episode eight, Charm Offensive.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've got a 43 minute runtime.

[SPEAKER_03]: These are really tight episodes, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: Really the cook through on Melissa Bernstein is the director and written by Johnny Gomez, Nancy puts in a fun fact for us.

[SPEAKER_03]: That Melissa Bernstein is another Vince Gilligan favorite.

[SPEAKER_03]: She was an executive producer of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.

[SPEAKER_03]: and she was also an executive producer of the second season of House of the Dragon, a fun quote that Nancy pulled Bernstein while working with House of the Dragon Showrunner Ryan Condol, often referenced the ethos that she subscribed to during her tenure with Gilligan, quote, whether there's dragons or whether you're in high medieval times, it is still about human nature.

[SPEAKER_03]: My focus was to make sure that scenes, arcs, and storylines rank true in terms of who we are as people and our experience on this planet.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's really for me what makes a story work.

[SPEAKER_02]: nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I've never watched House of the Dragon, but I should.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we will be covering season three when I'm back later.

[SPEAKER_03]: season three, you know, man, I got to go and uh and apparently Johnny Gomez was also uh somebody who rose ranked within the uh Vince Gilligan extended crime family uh uh both of these people have been around but you know, change and evolve.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if you listen to official pot, they have a bunch of conversations with these folks.

[SPEAKER_03]: So [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they, uh, they'll keep it in the family there and live in the family.

[SPEAKER_03]: But they bring people in and then once you're in, you're plugged and you're, you're just, is that a verb now?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad we're congregating.

[SPEAKER_02]: Plur.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, different ways.

[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's jump down to Panama with scene one, Minusos.

[SPEAKER_03]: And thank you again, Nancy, for all the work that you do that you save us, she breaks down the scenes for us.

[SPEAKER_03]: She collects all of your feedback and puts it into usable forms that we can then assemble for our recording outlines.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, [SPEAKER_03]: Nancy, thank you so much, and I know your community really appreciates you as much as we do.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Manuso's wakes in Panama in a hospital, the infection he got from being entailed on the chunk of palm is responding to antibiotics, but he needs time to regain his strength.

[SPEAKER_03]: He uses a scalpel to force the doctor.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm putting that around quotes because I don't know, maybe this guy was a computer programmer who knows.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh, forces the doctor to let him leave.

[SPEAKER_03]: He wants to know how much he owes and he won't accept hearing that.

[SPEAKER_03]: He owes them nothing because there were real people who were there before.

[SPEAKER_03]: He signs an IOU on the itemized billing record stumbles out of the hospital and climbs into an ambulance [SPEAKER_03]: Manus, what's this awesome?

[SPEAKER_03]: He is really, it's interesting to see the reactions around not only on our discord, but in the internet in general.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Some people love him, some people struggle with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think, like, he's trying on the character being like, like, a heart at, like, a tough guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's just not.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, I'm going to kill.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to slice him with the scalpel.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, we know you're not going to have a buddy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, here's your receipt.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we'll print it for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just so kind.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I just think he's a good human.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's at least in the top 12 humans that are currently human.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, as long as one of our other co-hosts and regulars on the lorhounds has a comment on the discord Renusos demands, you know, how much he owes, because everything costs, he's right to save that, to say that to the hive mind it.

[SPEAKER_03]: One thing an itemized bill and writing an IOU, I wanted to throw my sneakers at the dude.

[SPEAKER_03]: Go back to the Daryon Gap and kick all the rocks there.

[SPEAKER_02]: He don't cranky this season, like, I mean, you're so strong.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure, it's Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who does who is he into?

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe no one.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do wonder if they took his stem cells though.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, he was like, I get, I maybe it's my, my stuff creeping in about like medical trauma.

[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, [SPEAKER_02]: When you're like, you know, hospital and you're unconscious, like, they could do anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: They could be doing anything to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that, you know, I think about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: They probably didn't because you didn't have informed consent maybe, but they kind of, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So they could take it and prepare it and then say hey, we have it if you want it like don't worry We we grab that for you when you were unconscious.

[SPEAKER_03]: So like we here's a grenade Right like we're anticipating your needs.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I also want to just call back We're not going to dive into mirror neurons again, but he came out of the hospital room Right with this little scalpel is you know to like take this guy hostage and [SPEAKER_02]: notice that the plurbs didn't react.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't escalate.

[SPEAKER_02]: They just [SPEAKER_02]: talk they just were mellow and gave him what he needed and he immediately regulated he means it was like oh this isn't like a threatening environment I don't need to show force they're going to comply so he read the room and because their nervous system is so uniform and they don't make not even half one we haven't discussed that he his regulated and got away from the spider flight and said okay I don't need to fight we can just have this [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to call back to how the energy in the room affects us and that's not just like a a hippie-dippy thing to say.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it actually is rooted in our neurophysiology, which is very, very cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I do love this smiles on the, on the joins face and they're like, oh, it would cost this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the, here's the item.

[SPEAKER_03]: Would you, do you require this?

[SPEAKER_03]: I just love [SPEAKER_03]: that the plural of sensibility can be extended to any group of background artists who are that they get involved in the show, it's so lovely and so fun to see, you know, the extreme circumstance of danger here and they're like, chill, dude.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, because it isn't an extreme sort, like he, yeah, he would be very easy to overtake in that situation.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't be a hard [SPEAKER_03]: would it trip the opening and the trip the opening with Carol as well the cinematography the angles it really puts you in puts us into a whoa what's going on here and signaling I think it's great signaling that there's a horror the underlying horror of this whole situation still is present regardless of the fact that many of us was you know had to be airlifted out and as under heavy sedation and whatnot [SPEAKER_03]: Belboas are the currency of Panama.

[SPEAKER_03]: They replaced they were brought in in 1904 for their independence and it's a one to one That's why she says it's this or that as the same amount is because the Belboas are pegged to the US dollar at a one to one and they're both legal currency in Panama [SPEAKER_03]: uh...

one other really note two other quick notes she's holding a little carton of milk or a little plastic bottle of hdb and prints out the receipt for him and then i just love how clever menu so she is taking an ambulance smartest thing he could have done yeah because he has all the stuff he needs [SPEAKER_02]: 100% yeah and it was the access to like you know that's what was available to him but I guess there were probably other cars and makes sense but it makes sense right it just it just goes to his mindset of how how clever this guy is so survivor for sure [SPEAKER_02]: So then we seem to, can I read it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you can.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, sir.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted, I know you said you had been busy early, so I wanted to drive the bus as much.

[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm mirroring your condition and trying to support you over here.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very, it's very full.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're just like pushing this to one.

[SPEAKER_03]: We just leave that with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, I've seen too.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're calling awkwardness because it was Carol makes up a picture of juice for Zosha.

[SPEAKER_02]: They sit awkwardly in the front room.

[SPEAKER_02]: Zosha knows is the George O'Keefe print, or painting, and Carol makes up a story about why to keep it safe from wandering wars and buffalo.

[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, Carolyn that she doesn't know what to talk about, and so she suggests they play a board game and at the end, they play the card game spit from Carol's childhood.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just before we get into it, too, I just want to go back to thank you Benamina for all the research that you did.

[SPEAKER_03]: Very cool, and very fun, and you're adding, you've added a lot to the show this season, so thank you for, I hope you're having, I assume you're having fun as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can imagine, my neuro, I know, you're imagining you have fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol is so eager to please her and it was like she was trying to apologize without actually apologizing and I wish so she simply would have said we forgive you, but maybe they don't forgive her.

[SPEAKER_02]: But that's what the whole scene was.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was so awkward for me, because all that had to be said was, hey, I'm sorry for that line, I regret it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she couldn't, I thought that that was really telling of her character.

[SPEAKER_02]: And also the fact that we saw an airplane in the scene towards the end of it when she goes outside was cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it made me second guess a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, do they know that they're planes there?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, did they not measure that out?

[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, they know it's there.

[SPEAKER_03]: They know it's there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, they do.

[SPEAKER_02]: They know everything's there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So later in the scene, as they get another, some wide shots, they're a multiple planes in the air.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are they doing?

[SPEAKER_03]: They're coming back to Albuquerque.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right.

[SPEAKER_02]: OK, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: which brings up this really interesting question, which since Eddie Joe chimes in on its pricing, how much effort the hive put into making Carol happy, even the early episodes when she still reconnecting with Zoshah, I didn't expect them to bring everyone back to Albuquerque since there doesn't seem to be really a need for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: By the end, it seems like they're even running a pretend radio station for her to listen to.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, because she's listening to the radio station when she's cooking.

[SPEAKER_03]: are they, why are they coming back to Albuquerque?

[SPEAKER_03]: What's an Albuquerque that's important?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it where, and where are all their cars?

[SPEAKER_02]: They drove all their cars out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm sure they, well, we saw them in the, in the diners scene.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we just, at Carroll's house, we just see the airplanes flying by, so I mean, that they're all coming in.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: more trippy openings with the juice after the blood, what's going on here, there was a really interesting part of the couch scene where Carol and Zosha are sitting apart from each other.

[SPEAKER_03]: The way that they lit, again, nothing unintentional in the show, and this is my decoding.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol's head is in shadow, her chest is in light, you know, the light coming in from the outside, [SPEAKER_03]: Her head is in darkness, her heart is in light.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that, you know, we're getting the visual coding that she's, oh, I'm awkward.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how to do with it, but her heart is somewhere else.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so, late in shadow are used a lot and obviously in visual storytelling to indicate all kinds of stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so that was my decoding.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it's really apparent.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, why are they, why is her head in darkness, why is her face in darkness?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's because her head is clouded, but her heart is not.

[SPEAKER_03]: in terms of her relationship to the plurbs and men's oceans specifically.

[SPEAKER_03]: There was a set-up when they were playing spit.

[SPEAKER_03]: There was a set-up for Bree, which she says to him, if you want your cousin Henry to come visit you, [SPEAKER_03]: That is a nice little script trigger so that when Bree shows up in the, the, the waitress in the coffee shop later, like we're already prepared for the fact that they can bring anybody back, but they bring.

[SPEAKER_03]: We know that, but it's reinforced in that and it's just one little throw away line so good, like so attend they just attend the details in this show so incredible.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and then of course Trashjoin, of course.

[SPEAKER_03]: Beautiful shot of Trashjoin over the badly, or the, the role is right there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think they would have cleaned that up by now, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's how they're going to power wash out front, like while you're, well, you got that going.

[SPEAKER_02]: While you have the crews out there fixing up the house, like, don't you want your drone back?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny because it's a bit, but it just is getting more and more unbelievable that they wouldn't have just.

[SPEAKER_02]: fix it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love it though.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then just carols.

[SPEAKER_03]: Vulnerability here that that moment of when you have to say.

[SPEAKER_03]: when you're working through something with somebody else that it's a relationship that's meaningful in some way and you have to be vulnerable and the courage that it takes to be vulnerable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even with people you love, and even today something happened and I was like, oh, I was mad and then I had to go back and I go, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's unpack what happened.

[SPEAKER_03]: What was going on with you?

[SPEAKER_03]: What was going on with me?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Really hard to do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it's a habit that you can form.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the thing is that if we continue to work on the idea of that imagining other people complexly.

[SPEAKER_03]: then we've all experienced embarrassment, we've all experienced discomfort, discomfort around other people.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we have to assume that people will understand if there's no bad intention there.

[SPEAKER_03]: the people can understand.

[SPEAKER_02]: People typically only showing other people about 10% of what's really going on with us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's sometimes it's really easy for us to understand other people's motivations and behaviors, but sometimes you'll never know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can never know everything about everybody, even if it's people you're very close with, unless you're plurbed.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then because of the last year.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we have to speak, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: We have to communicate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that can be challenging, because maybe you never learned how to do that, you know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to read the scene or do you want me to read it?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to roll.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we're going on to scene three, where did the where do the pleurbus go?

[SPEAKER_02]: The pleurbus?

[SPEAKER_02]: The pleurbus.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol asks where's her she goes when she leaves and so she explains that there's no such thing as ownership anymore or private property.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then she offers to show Carol where they sleep, and I jumped out of my chair, I was like, finally.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then what's happening with them?

[SPEAKER_02]: Zocean takes her to a large event center, where a large number of the joined are settling into sleep on the floor of an ice rink.

[SPEAKER_02]: The pet question is answered by the parents of a dog who has followed his owner.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol asks if she wants to sleep there.

[SPEAKER_02]: She says no, but then the scene waking up, the size of Zocean, her arm wrapped around her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the morning's ocean takes Carol back home, Carol and Mitch, she had a nice time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then inside her office, we get to see the whiteboard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol adds to her board a line that counters her confession of having enjoyed herself with Soha.

[SPEAKER_02]: They eat people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Lots of great scenes.

[SPEAKER_03]: The, the, the, the, the, the density, the information, the nutritional density of the scene was incredible.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's so interesting because we're looking at things from Carol's perspective that these folks are these plurbed or secretive and malicious.

[SPEAKER_02]: But whenever you ask, boom, look, yeah, it's, this is what we do.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's never like salacious.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like so practical and or a legend from their assumption practical, I'm going to say again, sleeping on the floor of the ice ring without mattresses.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this poor woman, this poor old lady's being helped down.

[SPEAKER_02]: She don't even have like a pad on the grounds like a concrete floor.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no way, her back feels good when she wakes up.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's no way, and we're all dealing with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's feeling her broken back.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was frustrated with that.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a better way.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is a better way.

[SPEAKER_03]: I did.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was interesting to see some of them were kind of cutdled up.

[SPEAKER_03]: They had an arm.

[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody would have an arm over.

[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody else's shoulder or what have you.

[SPEAKER_03]: But others were not.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it was really interesting how that [SPEAKER_03]: how it all worked and then we now know that pets, you know, other mammals are not joined in the same way.

[SPEAKER_02]: So thank goodness.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was really hoping that dog would go home with her.

[SPEAKER_03]: Where there was totally my notes.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was wondering if Bear Jordan was going to join the cast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Bear Jordan, where's he at?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he like brought her the shoe and the other guy like old guy didn't care.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're out of care about this dog.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just followed me around.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's all good.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want Carol to have a pet.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that would be better than Zosha.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love bombing her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not kidding.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was her narcissism.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think just get her a puppy.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh yeah and that the endorphin release of just like looking at your pat and lovingly and love serotonin from dogs and cats like we love we need that exactly what did I call it did I say serotonin or what did I say in dork fan it's dork fan yeah well I always close enough for me yeah I meant her don't it was the when endorphin so there too okay [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, it's fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: We learned to learn a lot in the scene, but nothing really that was that shocking.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just confirming a lot of what we thought already, which is nice to have that confirmation.

[SPEAKER_02]: It gives us faith, those of an audience that we have the right idea, you know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I loved the line again.

[SPEAKER_03]: The show is so deeply funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, oh, it's not going to turn into the original scene for the Matrix and socials.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, do you want it to?

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, do you want that?

[SPEAKER_02]: And Carol's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, [SPEAKER_02]: I also thought it was weird that she said she was going to go home to sleep, but she didn't go home to sleep.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when she woke up next to the zoo, she was like, she was surprised that she was there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought, like, did she black out for a minute?

[SPEAKER_02]: That was my first thought, did they, like, drug her or something?

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm sick growing suspicious of the plurbs.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she woke up like a start and was like, what happened?

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: No?

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: She fell into the spell, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it happens.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're in a group and you just kind of go with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, we'll take a lot to get me a sleep on a floor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm feeling like, well, yeah, I don't mind staying with you, but can we go to a hotel like anything but this?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it was even weird to me after that, social went home with her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think they're just trying to keep their eye on Carol.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, as we learn later.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she, like, stays off topic.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's the funny thing is I found it visually beautiful.

[SPEAKER_03]: The cattle pile was just, okay, like it didn't creep me out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was more like, this is beautiful.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is kind.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the people helping each other.

[SPEAKER_03]: The visual of it, the top down shots, or the symmetry of movement as people are moving through the space and settling down and doing these things.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just, the show continues to enamor me from that standpoint.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not creeped out by the straight up creepy stuff that other people are really responding to.

[SPEAKER_02]: So again, they're like nodding back to humanity, you know, with this.

[SPEAKER_02]: You call it a cuddle pile.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like a cuddle puddle.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's cuddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle puddle pud [SPEAKER_03]: Which is interesting why some were touching each other in somewhere no, you know, with their arm over each other maybe that that individual needed that maybe that individual's physiology or brain science or whatever Responds sleeps more soundly when there's a physical touch [SPEAKER_02]: And then we can even map back to when we talk about Masloven and Sire, you have needs that, you know, love and intimacy is on that list of things we need before we can accept a send to our best self and one of the common counter arguments to that theory is that some people don't need intimacy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Some people don't need love.

[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like a burden to them for a variety of reasons.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're seeing that referenced in these plurbs that some need it and some don't.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's in there and we see that later scenes with social that their individuality is still in there and she's kind of surprised to uncover it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the, the, the, not neurodivergence in the sense of different mental constructs, but just in our divergence in our individual physiology.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're 99, 99, 99, 9% the same, but these little tiny variations are very surface apparent.

[SPEAKER_03]: I, I like a hand on my shoulder when I'm sleeping as opposed to not like I need to.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be in the cuddle puddle or like no, thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't touch me when I'm sleeping.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's take a quick break and then when we come back we'll get into some more detective work that's going on on both sides of this equation [SPEAKER_03]: And we're back, it's going to the next scene, which is actually a bunch of scenes sort of all welded together, Nancy has titled this fact-finding.

[SPEAKER_03]: Over the course, Carol learns about Zosha and the joins, but meanwhile, the joined are actually learning about Carol as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, hiking with Zosha, they see a train.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol has never told anyone that she loved the sound of train horns.

[SPEAKER_03]: And in this interaction, Carol learns that the join can't know [SPEAKER_03]: with them, unless she's shared it with somebody prior.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, that's a double way to say that.

[SPEAKER_03]: The joint communicate using the body's electromagnetic field.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's an unconscious communication akin to breathing.

[SPEAKER_03]: She talks about homeostasis.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol apparently has the same ability, but it's not being used.

[SPEAKER_03]: She has the potential, but it's not being used.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the joint are using trains to transport food.

[SPEAKER_03]: At least that's what Jolosa says.

[SPEAKER_02]: A lie of omission, possibly here.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it might be transporting other things like we, yeah, there's a little bit of something there, and then, uh, sorry, go ahead.

[SPEAKER_03]: What?

[SPEAKER_03]: I was saying it's gross.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's all.

[SPEAKER_03]: Are you talking with you?

[SPEAKER_03]: Carolyn Zosa, visit a spa for massages.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol gets a better understanding of the hive mind versus an individual.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol learns that for the joint to know everything all at once would be unbearable.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it would be to feel things.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to put a separation between knowing and feeling, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think our two sides here, that's me injecting commentary back to Nancy's notes, but they know things as they happen, for example, the man who has an accident in Bulgaria where it was births and deaths, et cetera.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol R and Zosha are then at a park, which we'll talk about in a second, she looks through a telescope for the planet Kepler 22B in the constellation of Cygnus, while it's not apparent what this means, Zosha says that they will never know the people of Kepler 22B because they're too far away, but they love them and are grateful to them.

[SPEAKER_03]: The joined plan to pay it forward, [SPEAKER_03]: that they have to share the gift with whomever else might be out there and that they're building a giant antenna and we'll use up the power of the world to send the signal to space, which looping us back to episode one where we had a bunch of people's speculating on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've got a bunch of fun astrology facts we can talk about signals in Kepler 22 and 22B.

[SPEAKER_03]: But what did you think of this group of scenes?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, just take it anywhere you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that, you know, we were struggling between Zosha's individuality and the fact that she still is very connected to the hive, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: When she seems so genuinely interested in this one-on-one interaction with Carol that [SPEAKER_02]: when they're hiking, it seems so like a lovely little day date.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you remember, all right, they eat people and all right, she can control the brain unless she can't control, but she's connected to the brain of the train driver and that can be like, it's a cute romantic gesture to have her like honk the train, have them honk the train horn, but [SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was creepy and weird because it's reminds Carol that, oh, you're an alien, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you're not an individual.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they're trying and same for the massages.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just it seemed interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: from the zoosho perspective.

[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I'm sorry to keep going back to it, but this woman, this pleurb just doesn't really value personal comfort and indulgence.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's she's sleeping on the floor of a hockey rink.

[SPEAKER_02]: So to say like I'm going to indulge in massage, it was really for Carol that she was doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: She wasn't doing it for herself.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was so Carol would have company, which is a nice gesture, but it's a manipulation.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Carol can feel like she's on a date and romantic and love bombing her kind of falling in love.

[SPEAKER_02]: Same with the observatory.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she knows all of the stuff I read.

[SPEAKER_02]: She just wants Carol to have the experience of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they can have a connection with each other.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Carol seems to be forgetting that a connection with Sosh is not individual is a connection with all of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she's putting herself in a very vulnerable position, being so folksy with the Plurb, you've triggered a thought in me now, which is okay, [SPEAKER_03]: are the plurbs are suspicious of Carol.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to see suspicious, but they're monitoring her, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: And they want to make sure that they're, you know, what's going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: But later when she reveals that she's writing again, and they're all really excited, and this opens up this whole conversation of the plurbs, don't have anything new.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everything's plastic.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody made a joke about this like sort of being in heaven, [SPEAKER_03]: Again, oh, we use the word homeostatic, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's homeostasis, like it's everything's dynamically in balance, where there's nothing changing and it's forever this thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so when they get something new, wholly new and original, it is exciting for that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they're actually love bombing her to try to give themselves, they're very pleasure oriented, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're open to knowledge and, and, um, like novel experiences.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that maybe for some of them, pleasure is a novel experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when we look at, um, [SPEAKER_02]: Diabate, what he's doing, and if we're going on the theory that he was of a lower social status for the joining, and now he's able to indulge in pleasurable experience as I know he's not a pleurb, but we are seeing that as a theme throughout the show that.

[SPEAKER_02]: allowing personal pleasure is new for some people, and that's where we might be leaning in here.

[SPEAKER_02]: For some of the plurbs, like maybe some of the plurbs, never got individualistic pleasure in their life because of their social status or social economic status or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe Zoja, as an individual, never got a massage like that, Nespas.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, some part of her is still in there finding pleasure in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like this idea too that I'm thinking about is that they're cultivating her, well, we're lucky we have we have a writer who can think of new novel thoughts.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's cultivate that and that's a food source for us, not a food source, but you know what I mean, like it's an input for them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if they can cultivate her to do that, manipulate her into doing that, that makes them feel good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right, so and you, you want to encourage that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they blow it later on.

[SPEAKER_03]: They do, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we'll get there.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll get there.

[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was interesting that the work on the whiteboard on the Wakaro story, if you go back to earlier screenshots of the whiteboard, I wouldn't first see it.

[SPEAKER_03]: The number of Wakaro notes has changed in between then and now.

[SPEAKER_03]: So she's done work on the, she's been thinking about Wakaro in the interim 40 days.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh...

i thought it was interesting that during the sojj we see sojja scar and make a point of a seeing it is like right there in frame and then later when she wakes up uh...

at the morning after again we see the scar so you know nothing nothing unintentional here just just just noting it uh...

and i again i want to highlight the difference between knowing things and feeling things [SPEAKER_03]: If they were to feel everything, that would be unbearable.

[SPEAKER_03]: But to know things intellectually, I guess this would go into types of memory and experience, like you've talked about this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it really talks back about like the difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy and cognitive empathy is just understanding your crying.

[SPEAKER_02]: You must be sad right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what it feels like to be sad.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can quantify it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm in control of my emotion, and I'm not breaking down with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and triggered for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what the plurbs are displaying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol has a high level of affective empathy.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's on the other side of the spectrum that if she feels with people.

[SPEAKER_02]: which is kind of lovely, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: But she has a top she interacted with her fans at the bookstore.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: She like mirrors them.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it must be very hard for someone with carols, um, empathetic presentation to not have anyone to really mirror off of.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you can see that when social starts giving her love, she mirrors that right.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she falls right into the pattern.

[SPEAKER_02]: because she's really connected to people effectively based on emotion and less cognitively.

[SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't take the beat to think it through.

[SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't take a beat to understand how someone else might be feeling in that moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: She just feels it with them, which I think is an interesting layer to this.

[SPEAKER_02]: If we want to talk about mirror neurons and empathetic processing, that there must be very hard for someone with a high level of affective empathy to be in a world that no one is showing genuine individual emotion.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, and that really draws a highlighter over her experience of trauma at losing her partner, her wife, that, you know, for us, for a lot of us, when we choose to [SPEAKER_03]: that our partners oftentimes fill in the gaps for us in our lives, our balances out in different ways or provide things emotional regulation or stability or, you know, and maybe some of us who like to be, you know, there are things that I like to provide my wife that I know that help and benefit her and so that makes me feel good about our relationship and she does the same for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like a healthy co-dependence that you do need each other to be full [SPEAKER_02]: It takes time to establish those rhythms in a relationship.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that Helen and Carol did have that time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now what we're seeing in with Zoja is she's got.

[SPEAKER_02]: Zoja holds the knowledge to fast track her relationship with Carol because she is Helen.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's so good.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she knows just what to do because she has Helen's, like, she doesn't they don't have a first date.

[SPEAKER_02]: First dates don't exist here because they she is her wife.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she can just be that person.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, and I think that Carol's denying that, like, she doesn't, like, she doesn't want to admit it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, maybe she doesn't love Zosa.

[SPEAKER_02]: She loves Helen, who's inside there.

[SPEAKER_03]: And who's not an act of presence inside there, but the memories are there to inform the trial and error exists.

[SPEAKER_02]: We know how to get Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, that just opens up the the manipulative factor of the verbs I had been thinking about this all I've been thinking about is that like and I'm waiting to say it like that that's why it's so gross because it's not novel.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a new fresh romance.

[SPEAKER_02]: She knows exactly what to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what dating is all about is learning each other to the point that you can, if that's a goal that you have for yourself to be in a, any kind, you know, whatever a committed relationship is the trial and error.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, [SPEAKER_03]: When you if you do get married, you know, your marriage is your relationship is in this construct because there are times when you're just like, oh man, how did this person is driving me nuts so, right, and that's going to happen the entire course of a marriage.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not blissful forever, right, where people were weird.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have a lot of peaks and valleys, peaks and valleys, the unassumed getting married [SPEAKER_03]: the what worked for us was to go, okay, well, let's stop.

[SPEAKER_03]: What was it?

[SPEAKER_03]: What were you really want out of this night for this ceremony?

[SPEAKER_03]: What's important?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, okay, well, there's people travel from all over, gives their, they're there for the, the kiss, right, the moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then everything else, that, that was my point of view on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And my wife was like, well, I want to, I just want to hang out with my friends and listen to the music and eat the food that make us all happy and enjoying.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we broke down the ceremony to like, you know, and put together what we wanted that worked for us.

[SPEAKER_03]: But during that process, there were so many hidden assumptions that were coming out of both of our heads that we didn't know were there until we were confronted with that situation.

[SPEAKER_03]: so that then we had to work it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: So our relationship was in that moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: Or being becoming a parent, all this unpacking of, this is how my parents did it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm having these weird response.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel like I'm me here in the moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like, yeah, this is coming out of me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Where did it come from?

[SPEAKER_03]: We're weird.

[SPEAKER_03]: We are layered with stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they can, like you said, they can short-circuit all of that because [SPEAKER_03]: it's already there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And exhaustion in this episode, you have to know the change in their tone and their affect in their vibe much more folksy much more like [SPEAKER_03]: making fun of.

[SPEAKER_02]: Making fun of Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, you saw Carol, like on the board.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's definitely a shift.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a realignment and strategy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then what they were doing before, I'm just giving her whatever she wanted.

[SPEAKER_02]: They've learned about Carol that she wants to work for it more.

[SPEAKER_02]: She wants the puzzle to solve, so they're giving her the puzzle to solve.

[SPEAKER_02]: because that's what she needs to us in the late.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Zoja took the 40 days and established a new schema around how to approach getting Carol and it's not just giving her everything she wants and it's being her wife because that's what she wants.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dave, I'm just so worried about this.

[SPEAKER_03]: You just solved this.

[SPEAKER_03]: You win the internet today.

[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's quickly talk about the Rio Rancho Sky Room Campus Park.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is a functional architecture or my community gathering space.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is actually available to the community.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can have picnics and stuff there.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just a cool aspect of architecture that they found.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was right near the hockey rank where they were filming.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they got into that.

[SPEAKER_03]: the let's talk about Kepler 22B.

[SPEAKER_03]: So first it's it's not part of Kepler's not part of the Cygnus constellation, but the Cygnus constellation helps frame it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the stars within that that's how you find Kepler.

[SPEAKER_03]: Signus is the swan constellation.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's also named the northern cross.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a bunch of research that Nancy did and then I did some research on Kepler and the mythology of Cygnus tells of the story and this may or may not be relevant the Greek mythology aspect.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the mythology of Cygnus tells the story of Zeus, who changed into the form of a swan, to entice Queen Leda.

[SPEAKER_03]: From their union came the twins' castor in Pollux, which of the bright stars the constellation Gemini the twins.

[SPEAKER_03]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: take it, take that for what you want, decode what you want out of that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Cool stuff, nonetheless.

[SPEAKER_03]: Kepler 22 is a G-type star.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is internet research that I did, so you know, take that for what it's worth.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very similar to the Sun, but a little bit cooler and a little less luminous.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it is 600, that was 600 light years away from Earth, give or take.

[SPEAKER_03]: Kepler 22B the planet orbits the Sun at 0.81 astronomical units.

[SPEAKER_03]: So one astronomical unit is the distance from our Earth to our Sun, because we're first person energy, you know, like we measure things relative to our point of view.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's just slightly closer.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it takes about 290 days to complete an orbit.

[SPEAKER_03]: It has a radius that's a two and a half, two times Earths, and its mass is around nine Earths masses.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a super Earth.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a much bigger planet than us.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is the first exoplanet confirmed by the Kepler mission.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it orbits within the habital zone of a sun-like star that they figured out, like if you're too close, it's Goldilocks sound is what they literally want the Goldilocks.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you're too close, it's too hot, too much radiation, too far away, not enough for liquid water to exist or other chemicals.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even though we know about XO extreme-file creatures, things that live around thermal vents in the ocean and whatnot, [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a there are definite ranges within what we call a habitable zone, but that's a important framework for us to understand is their life elsewhere, right, and that that if we find planets in the Goliolog zone the probability of life's jumps, much higher.

[SPEAKER_02]: So all this to say, it checks out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, City Alpha 5 checks out, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Part of those who know, they know, they just heard that.

[SPEAKER_03]: They start track reference.

[SPEAKER_03]: Start for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, cool that they, you know, human writers did the research and they figured out a place where this could plausibly come from.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: And just a fun, fun, fun set of details in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It will.

[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be important if it's important if it's not, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a factoid.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I like that it makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it isn't a fabrication.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think in this show that we do have to take this to kind of sci-fi, leap of faith, and some aspects, they are kind of grounding in real science, like known science to provide these explanations.

[SPEAKER_03]: richer and fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think so too.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think so too.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it makes me go, okay, this is not an LLM writing.

[SPEAKER_03]: These are human writers who are having fun making these connections that only they can make.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ken wrote in an email, Ken W.

longtime friend of the pod subscriber.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, gang.

[SPEAKER_03]: How are the joined not spying on the whiteboard?

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they're 100% spying on the whiteboard.

[SPEAKER_02]: If they can, what track Manusos through the Dory and Gap to see him pass out and then helicopter in, they have eyes on that whiteboard.

[SPEAKER_03]: Great, somebody across the town, they just have to think of eyes on that whiteboard.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that they're using that information to monitor Carroll's distraction level, [SPEAKER_02]: And they know what she knows about them because they've told her.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like a secret, but she's doing research, like this is giving her information.

[SPEAKER_03]: Cold war spy type stuff, what do they know?

[SPEAKER_03]: We know that they know that we know that they know...

[SPEAKER_02]: They know everything, literally everything that exists for knowledge.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why they're so eager for more information because it's probably pretty effing boring.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: to our scene five we're calling muscle memory how to play croquet and of how to write the joint think Carol might be writing a new book and are excited to read something new while playing croquet, Carol tries to understand who the joint might be and out of the able to share muscle memory.

[SPEAKER_02]: This shows a sense of humor by suggesting Carol just makes suck up the game.

[SPEAKER_02]: The message is repeated on the scoreboard, which I think is hilarious.

[SPEAKER_02]: Azosa asked when Carol was happiest writing.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we're trying to get Carol writing again as a distraction.

[SPEAKER_02]: The scene was great.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was very endearing and they've learned what Carol's formula is for a good time.

[SPEAKER_02]: She likes a low level physical activity, golf or hike, then followed by something and a little bit more indulgent, like hot springs, spot treatment.

[SPEAKER_02]: uh, indulgent trip to a diner.

[SPEAKER_02]: They know her formula because they, you're blowing my mind here.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have it down.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have it because they showed us that in prior episodes, what her preferences are.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is all of these activities are her preferred act.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they figured it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, yeah, my mind has been on other details in the show.

[SPEAKER_03]: So [SPEAKER_03]: uh...

john had a comment another one john was on fire this episode no more books no more movies no more songs no more paintings no more art this is the price for utopia and even the hive minded are finding themselves bored how very human oof love that now there's just resort to psychological manipulation for a [SPEAKER_02]: Bring us to scene six.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're calling manipulative chamophons.

[SPEAKER_02]: I support that titling.

[SPEAKER_02]: The joint recreate the restaurant where Carol first begins to write.

[SPEAKER_02]: They even have the waitress who served Carol during those times.

[SPEAKER_02]: The whole experience, well, at first, makes Carol happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And some upsetting her and she leaves.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she comes home to see if Carol is okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol tries to get her to stop using third person, which social has trouble doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol is upset that Bree's life was upended so that she could come to Albuquerque and recreate her role as a waitress at the restaurant.

[SPEAKER_02]: She accuses Zosha and the joins of trying to distract Carol and manipulate her into giving up Zosha admits it's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Zosha kisses Carol and Carol passionately kisses back.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the morning Zosha wakes up to find Carol has written a new chapter with the white Carol series and her bond is now a female character.

[SPEAKER_02]: This scene was so gross to me [SPEAKER_02]: it like really bother.

[SPEAKER_02]: It really disturbed me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It really, really did when the diner recreation all of it was just so manipulative and, you know, we talk about [SPEAKER_02]: How the joiner, you know, trying to conserve resources, but they're using a lot of resources to support this charmer fence of right and like a rebuilding diners bring and me not to say like, We're building a diner right from scratch to the exact detail, it just seemed really, really gross and I think Carol saw that too.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when they get back to the house and.

[SPEAKER_02]: social tries to make it right and she can't watch the resort to doing is just kind of giving her and without express consent, kissing her, what does it call the confirmed ongoing continuous success?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, like, [SPEAKER_03]: I remember a number of years ago there was one of the things in the level of consent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's got to be ongoing and yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And just like grab, if she doesn't know what else to do, she's like grasping at straws.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if she just grabs her and kisses her, it seems so violating to me, I don't know, because she's, Carol's so vulnerable, you know, she's got through so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's very easy to manipulate in this time of trauma.

[SPEAKER_02]: and this desire for connection and to do that just seems like you were exploiting the situation in a way that was Yucky to me, minimal.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, and that's how I felt about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know that there was consent and plot, you know, Carol does kiss her back and really falls into this love bombing indoctrination piece and I felt bad for Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like she was totally manipulated and exploited in a way that [SPEAKER_02]: It just didn't sit right with me, kind of at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: Were you, let me ask you this, were you, were you expecting this to?

[SPEAKER_03]: Were you expecting them, were you expecting them to get together?

[SPEAKER_03]: Some point in this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you knew that they would, like you knew that that's what was going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just from a TV writing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like we knew that.

[SPEAKER_02]: from the first time they met, she was designed for that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we get confirmation in the truth telling video tape.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: We knew that Zocha was manufactured to get Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: So creepy.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was so funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's exactly what it is.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when she was plucked from all of the individuals, [SPEAKER_02]: to be the one that looks most like her bond, that was most related, like, to be of that image.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: and she fell for it and then it always made because she's smarter than that, you know, which is well, the charm offensive really worked and it worked until it didn't.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they, and it was the brie of it all that triggered her.

[SPEAKER_03]: If brie had not shown up in all episode long, they're like, oh, let's turn off the lights.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's give you a train whistle.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's throw in all of these tiny little details.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when brie shows up, [SPEAKER_03]: The moment Carol says, Bree, I'm like, Where's Bree?

[SPEAKER_03]: She's going to step into frame here.

[SPEAKER_03]: Any minute now and boom, there she was.

[SPEAKER_02]: They took it too far.

[SPEAKER_03]: If they had not brought Bree into it, it would have been a nice nostalgia trip.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it would have not been gross.

[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's the interesting thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, not having watched Mill Hall and Drive, but what I read about it and understand it is, part of it deals with what is real and what is not real.

[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_03]: in this shot for shot, you know, recreation.

[SPEAKER_03]: carol confronts the reality of this is not real.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the cars are buzzing around outside.

[SPEAKER_03]: People are paying with money.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a matter of the official podcast that the couple that's at the till when they walk in is actually has money.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're sirens in the background.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can hear like a police or an ambulance siren in the background sound.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they're recreating on.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the moment she leaves, it all comes to a halt.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: and she and some level had to have been confronted that we saw antibodies presentation of having this like on-futtered resources as being like really self-indulgent and isn't this recreation of the diner and recreating this perfect writing environment for Carol doesn't that hold the same level of self-indulgent [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe that is a real realization moment for her, like, oh, shit, like, they got me to.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm [SPEAKER_03]: But you need to be so, especially after you've had 40 days of isolation and you've been missing this and it suddenly seems all normal and natural.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, the creep factor just went up for me by like a thousand thinking about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've been like, oh, they're nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're gentle.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they're like, no, this is creepiest.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like it can be both.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just depends on how you frame it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like 100%.

[SPEAKER_02]: If what Carol wants is the companionship of Helen, like she's got it now and that's nice and she's leaning into that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it brings up the question of what romantic gestures are given in good faith that then end up being an a creepy experience for another person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's this hindsight bias.

[SPEAKER_02]: We exhibit especially in relationships.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I look back to like my first romantic relationships and at the time they were lovely.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I look back and like, oh gosh, no, no, that was not it, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I agree, when we as boys grew up with Pepe LePue and Hawkeye on Nash or whatever as male role models, these, you know, womanizing characters where we take what we want as opposed to, hey, that's another person over there that I need to respect and have a conversation with, and then that's different than, you know, I don't know, we create Pepe LePue the scunks kissing noises.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's like straight up sexual assault?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, a million percent.

[SPEAKER_03]: Another thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where we were every day in the morning before school.

[SPEAKER_03]: Watching cartoons.

[SPEAKER_03]: Watch it before school.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a very education.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also something that rubbed me the wrong way with the scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: When I realized that Carol was just being manipulated to be distracted, is so show was priming her for more information from the book.

[SPEAKER_02]: saying like is this going to happen next to Carol is again that's what's going to happen next and that defeats the purpose of her writing a book because as soon as ocean understands what's going to happen in the plot of the white Carol right it's not surprising anymore that's not surprising more than everybody knows so what even have her right the book you've already you have the plot you don't even need to read it [SPEAKER_03]: And then you have a million, a billion mines in there to to work through the calculation.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very line.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: So like it's all the podcasters in the world that are plurbed are all doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: The red it's just now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Super red.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what's the point of writing it?

[SPEAKER_02]: And the point is just to keep her off the cent and keep her distracted while they figure out how it was somewhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: Man, they got me, they got me so good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was so...

We were like, they're in love.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're in love.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're making up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just make a ice cream.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a trick.

[SPEAKER_03]: Is there, let me ask you this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Is there a place in your past that physically doesn't exist anymore that you would if you could have recreated for you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have one.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have any.

[SPEAKER_02]: I also have and blessed with a very bad memory.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I don't really like remember things.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what, I think that like, I'll say like my grandmother, I've been thinking about my grandmother a lot lately, it's love her lot and her own holidays comes up.

[SPEAKER_02]: She had this pool in her apartment complex.

[SPEAKER_02]: We would go to all the time and that time in place with her like pulling Oreo cookies out of a very specific purse and like feeding them to me and my sister.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's a very nostalgic memory.

[SPEAKER_02]: And while I'm sure that physical space exists, the aura around it doesn't anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like so, I would recreate that like specific moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Got it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what about you?

[SPEAKER_03]: The last exit coffee shop in Seattle, Washington and University District.

[SPEAKER_03]: There was this coffee shop that was just epic from, you know, this throne forward from the 60s, the [SPEAKER_03]: these marble tables that they had line on the outside that had come from other buildings.

[SPEAKER_03]: The big round tables in the middle spaces that were all that had all been the spools for like big electrical cables.

[SPEAKER_03]: So these giant normus wooden round tables that had been rolled up with [SPEAKER_03]: tables and you could smoke and you could get a pot of tea for like a buck 15 so I could give a meal peppermint you know and the afternoon because I didn't want to be up all night and having a espresso or something and that sandwich is alfalfa sprout things this and that and they'd open midnight and the outer tables were no smoking tables but the inner tables were smoking tables which is ridiculous because everybody who walks into the places smoking even if what you want to or not.

[SPEAKER_03]: and we were there.

[SPEAKER_03]: We would close that place down regularly and you just roll in.

[SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't even make a plan to meet people you just show up and people would be there and you just sit down and you start talking, you play chess, you do your homework, college time, or you just hang out and talk.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was epic and the university bought the land.

[SPEAKER_03]: and bulldoze the building.

[SPEAKER_03]: They tried to move it and it was just never itself ever again.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think you're reminding me of a lot of, yeah, that same vibe.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's a place called the Someday Cafe and Someday we're the same exact place, but just on the East Coast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a coffee shop I used to work at.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was really formative for me for years.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was this independent coffee shop in Boston, South End.

[SPEAKER_02]: I called Francesca as if you know it right in.

[SPEAKER_02]: Shout out.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just like a lovely community and a really nice place.

[SPEAKER_02]: and then cafe nearo bought it and now it's just like a brand um and i actually had a dream about Francesca's last name just funny and so our ice furniture uh something's happening we're i think we're plurbing are we doing it um we're being i love the conjugation but yeah i [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to go back.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, it would be sad and that's what Carol felt in this coffee shop.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you're in that moment, where is Diabatez, fantasy is a fantasy he never lived.

[SPEAKER_03]: He saw it in a movie and he wanted to recreate it, whereas if we went back to our past, that's Carol's past, that was never Diabatez past.

[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carol, we really see Carol managing her emotions.

[SPEAKER_03]: She gets upset and then brings herself down.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's a love at character growth, right, we're actually seeing real character growth going on for her.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I wondered, is that water in her glass when she was drinking on the porch or if that was, because she pours her proper drink later.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't know, maybe if she's drinking water and in controlling her emotions a little bit, she maybe there's something she's regularly in her name, yeah, she's learning.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to make a funny, a note about how funny it was, how they dealt with the pronoun question, because those of us who grow up in a different way and we're learning, hey, you know, people want to be responded to this way.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to respect you as a person, and stemming over pronouns is funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just it's human nature funny stuff when we're trying to deal with it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're not making fun of somebody, but we're laughing about, [SPEAKER_02]: And like they handles it really well in a nod to that, you know, our the phenomenon that we're experiencing now with naming conventions and pronouns and the best thing to do is just to correct yourselves and move forward, right, not over explained, just say sorry, like, [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got it wrong and moved forward.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was like really modeling good behavior.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you, I'll call you whatever you want.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was sweet.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a very funny little sweet and like humanizing, tizotia in a way and we'll see more of that in the the next scene.

[SPEAKER_03]: A couple of last tiny points.

[SPEAKER_03]: for a best-seller and author.

[SPEAKER_03]: She has the world's shittiest printer.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, get a laser printer in care.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll give you some words by the, I am, my wife is finishing her PhD.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, why do we have an ink jet?

[SPEAKER_03]: We have no expensive.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, get a better printer care.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then I just loved watching two nerds to get into it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just like, [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, but this, oh, but no, the caves.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the compass, of course.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like I loved being a more hound.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we do, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not too nerds.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's one nerd and then seven billion nerds.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're fair enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're getting swept up.

[SPEAKER_03]: I am.

[SPEAKER_03]: They got me.

[SPEAKER_03]: They got me.

[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, Jessica says, I feel like Zosha may be playing Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You Jessica, Jessica gets it.

[SPEAKER_03]: having her use eye, telling her about herself, initiating the kiss without being asked because she knew Carol would rather her do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, she's actually good in sight, but it's so hard to tell.

[SPEAKER_03]: So like Jessica gets to be here on this, but also I want to think about that they can be interested in learning new things about Carol in reading the new book because otherwise they know everything in the world about everything and so everyone [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a new stimulus is nice in Richmond for their enclosure.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, this idea that they are devoid of anything new.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And when something new comes up, even though they could crack it instantly and spread it instantly in that moment, there's a joy, you know, 7 billion people around their earth had a joyful moment in realizing it was the caves and the time compass that could stitch it all together.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's take our last break of the episode, and then when we come back, we'll finish up the scene by scene and close out the app.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah [SPEAKER_03]: and we're back.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to take us into the next scene?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is this our last scene?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, this is our last scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: So after 20 additional days, Carol and Zosha appear to have settled into a domestic routine.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol gets from Zosha more information about her childhood life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Zosha's telling Carol that she is about to have a visitor.

[SPEAKER_02]: a little side here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's taking him a long time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like how long does it take to drive?

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's been eating.

[SPEAKER_03]: I did map the, of course, I map it this way, between El Paso and Albuquerque.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just about four hours.

[SPEAKER_03]: He was 30 miles south of the border, so call it fourish hours.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's been 20 days.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's been.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we don't know how long he was out.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh, and Panama driving from Panama.

[SPEAKER_03]: I did not map that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I apologize.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'll continue on.

[SPEAKER_02]: He has been using supplies from the ambulance to treat his wounds on his back.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's such a survivor.

[SPEAKER_02]: We love fans of Minuso.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's he's getting it done.

[SPEAKER_02]: In this scene, we start to see Carol insert a fall in love and social remembers her individuality with some crying from Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going back to the whiteboard when it says love potion on the whiteboard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then these Romeo and Juliet type of themes, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: love can tap into social's individuality and make she's remembering it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's remembering it, not like in a data mining sense, like, oh, this individual named social likes, mango ice agreements, feels so intimate with this memory recall, like lights are being turned on inside of her.

[SPEAKER_02]: She recalls these memories.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's important.

[SPEAKER_02]: this rig, like tapping back in emotionally calling up these individual memories, re-ignite her own individuality.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I'm sure that there's something there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's been some fun theories being kicked around like will Carol isolate, so should it break her electromagnetic connection with the others and try to bust her out of the hive or something like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even if you did break her out, if she got in contact again with it, re-synchronizer, we don't know, but people haven't fun with the idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like in stranger things when they take will to like the shack [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't, okay, I don't know what season and I don't know anything so oh is that it's an earlier season earlier one and they like remind him of who he is I was into virtuality, so whatever It's actually a little sad but whatever it is fine [SPEAKER_02]: How many of you think about this scene?

[SPEAKER_03]: A couple of little notes she was listening to the radio when she was washing up at the sink.

[SPEAKER_03]: And oh, I didn't finish my research.

[SPEAKER_03]: I got distracted.

[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to read about Miles Davis, the song All of You.

[SPEAKER_03]: Any music heads out there?

[SPEAKER_03]: Mark Bonaminoz, somebody.

[SPEAKER_03]: Tell us about the Miles Davis song All of You.

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm talking to the L.L.M.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm putting a prompt on the audio prompt into the space.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, there's a reflection of Helen in the window there with both of them on the inside, you know us looking in with Helen reflected, so just a great metaphor for [SPEAKER_03]: our minds and how memory works and our connectivity and the sense of other and together just beautifully visually.

[SPEAKER_03]: Whether they intended that or not, it was just a simple visual metaphor that works beautifully.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you put a milk in your eggs?

[SPEAKER_03]: Very important question.

[SPEAKER_03]: little a little bit of fat in your eggs is a great is always good for correct.

[SPEAKER_02]: I put butter all the same things in same function.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and you can't burn it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You got to keep the heat very low burn eggs that is a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I agree.

[SPEAKER_03]: Noted.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Zosa says that when she was a child watching the ships go out and buying mango ice cream, she says the city name as Gdanks.

[SPEAKER_03]: Gdanks [SPEAKER_03]: don't know what that's about nothing unintentional I put that on on our discord Cincinnati Joe was like yeah but just that or the other thing is like I just felt like he was popping my uh...

my detective sleeping ideas I mean you brought up absolutely valid points [SPEAKER_03]: And I was just like, oh, that would be more.

[SPEAKER_03]: I thought something.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, so anyway, interesting there, did she move from Poland to child, where she accessing other memories that that mango ice cream wasn't hers, but she likes mango ice cream.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, as the individual, like, she pauses for a minute there.

[SPEAKER_03]: working it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: So was she mapping that memory or was that an honest memory from that individual?

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I never thought of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It felt to me that it was an honest memory of the individual's ocean, what she liked.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the geography is a challenge.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, wait, good angst, and I was like, that's not Morocco and turn off, it's not.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, and I think the last thing, I just a tiny little note about Manusos, he's parked under an overpass, which means they can't see from above what he's doing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's using the overpasses eye in the sky coverage.

[SPEAKER_03]: Obsessed with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: I need him to, I need him to show up [SPEAKER_02]: metaphorically slap Carol across the face and break her from this spell that she's under.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I won't say anything, but if you on the Apple TV app, it shows a thumbnail of the next episode with a short description.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when you're trying to bring the episode up, if you want no spoilers, you know, look, I kind of don't like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, look out for her.

[SPEAKER_03]: It won't be, it's not a, he shows up Cliff Hanger.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's, I think we get a whole episode with him as my [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I need.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd be really disappointed in the show if they cut it right there ding dong.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's at the door and credit's role.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so all right.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some other feedback about this scene and then just broad level feedback.

[SPEAKER_03]: So let's zip through that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to read the message from the TCS?

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, the TCS rates, if the plurbs are driven by making or seeing the unjoined happy, then Carol switching her bond to a female character, we're filled into joy because it would fill Carol and Helen with joy.

[SPEAKER_02]: My recollection is that Harold thought, Helen thought, Carol, Harold.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, no, I got it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I'm sorry over my recollections that Helen thought Carol should say who were bond really was, but Carol wasn't ready.

[SPEAKER_02]: So this rewrite is Carol's coming out to the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can only imagine how powerful that was for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even if she knows the plurbs know, there's a really big deal for her emotionally, and it must have thrilled Helen, who might be the lead, hive, lead mind in the hive for this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Carol gets delighted, a delighted reaction from Zoja after childhood where her parents tried to convert her, and then leading life as a closet adult, and just so emotionally powerful, this must have been such a fantastic moment for Carol.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I go to the million percent.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what so lovely about this show is when you start to unpack it and you realize the sinister underneath the sweet, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's creepy and beautiful at simultaneously.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: The Rita Reborn Cincinnati Joe, Rocky Zimms, others, all.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a summarized comment in the scene of Zocia Recounting.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a Plurb comment.

[SPEAKER_03]: in the scene of Zoshah recounting her childhood memories is Carol trying to make Zoshah's body or mind feel more individual, breaking the spell of the joint, emphasizing again that Zoshah is an eye rather than a we.

[SPEAKER_03]: So what is Carol's manipulation of the individual formally known [SPEAKER_03]: point blank, I am on the case, and you guys know that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So stop distracting me, but I am not letting go.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can charm me, and we can live together, and it's lovely, but I'm not.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not stopping.

[SPEAKER_03]: So she's manipulating Zosha as much as Zosha's manipulating her.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because if this RNA is a virus, right, maybe the antidote for the antidote for the virus [SPEAKER_02]: love and like the neurotransmitters and endocrine things that happen as a result of love, maybe that would like cure the virus.

[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting construct because the whole marketing campaign is the unhappy, the world's most unhappy person has to save the world thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So kind of a fun twist and to say, okay, her journey is that she needs to learn love, and she's unhappy to [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe love can make them healthy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: To John.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, John was on fire on this episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: The new sister's journey is a hopeful one.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's hoping to connect with Carol to undo the state of affairs and return.

[SPEAKER_03]: First to his rightful inhabitants.

[SPEAKER_03]: there are so many leads that I could follow.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's taking a route.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he's just sort of making the general comment and then he's got a specific comment.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's taking a route that real life migrants trek and die on to reach a better place.

[SPEAKER_03]: But once they get to that place, they're told you don't belong here and are literally labeled alien.

[SPEAKER_03]: Man, this is his word.

[SPEAKER_03]: Man, listen, whether intentional or not, I respect [SPEAKER_03]: It's like totally true, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: He's south of the border.

[SPEAKER_03]: He goes to the Daryan Gap, South American migrants coming up, after go through that place on foot.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's, I didn't even, until I read Jones comment, I didn't even think about that as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just the decoding, many layers of meaning that are in here, that are just implicit without even being intentional.

[SPEAKER_03]: Whether they were or not.

[SPEAKER_03]: So.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, thanks for writing and your feedback's been awesome this week, but thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, let's finish up.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some more general comments.

[SPEAKER_03]: You want to, uh, figure it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, figure it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's finish up.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've got some more general comments.

[SPEAKER_02]: You want to, uh, figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Figure it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the new world, there are 8 billion bodies, but only one soul, so just one plurb body has to have the same value as an undroined person.

[SPEAKER_02]: You could look at the plurbs as one entity, both 8 billion bodies.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think the plurbs would say that because they are on another level intellectually, they are more valuable than the undroined, kind of like how humankind feels about animals.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's an interesting perspective.

[SPEAKER_03]: I jokingly posted a gift of a bomb, somebody taking a bomb hit after he bought this because I felt like I was on the college dorm floor.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you're making me think.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, sub-zero also goes on, it keeps on bad vibe.

[SPEAKER_02]: I get the vibe that the hive mind considers the unjoined to be a lower state of being un-light and less evolved sub-optimal, however you want to phrase it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of reminds me of the Dominion from Star Trek steep space nine in terms of their views on the great link being a higher level of existence.

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, the Dominion or polar opposites from a polar bus hive in terms of executing their objectives.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you've been listening, you know my Star Trek knowledge begins in ends with the next generation, so you'll have to educate me about the dominion.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're violent and aggressive, not nice people.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that doesn't sound pleasant at all, now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know they want to take over in rule.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, Borgy kind of?

[SPEAKER_03]: They're, yeah, they're boardy, but being, they're, they're not mile mechanical.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're just regular biological people and they have allies.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the whole thing of deep-says nine.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm having to, to contact the hive mine and my own brains.

[SPEAKER_03]: I remember the, with dominuous, but yeah, they're, they're the big bad.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's on the other side of the warmhold of deep-says nine.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they want to take over.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which is funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: What I love about the show is that it subverts the whole paradigm, or the subverts the whole trope of alien invasion and dominance are bad guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: These are nice bad guys, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, on the surface they're doing all this nice stuff as opposed to coming in with spaceships and, you know, taking over by violence.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, physical violence.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're taken over by emotional violence.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes, that is true.

[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Should I go on reading more?

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you want, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're on a role.

[SPEAKER_02]: Mark is asked, posits a theory.

[SPEAKER_02]: The purpose of the quote, join virus and quote is to preserve life by calling and new during any technology, any technologically advanced species.

[SPEAKER_02]: Once the civilization is advanced enough to destroy itself or to cause mass extinction, it's also advanced enough to detect the signal decoded and become infected by it.

[SPEAKER_02]: After being infected, that civilization stops all violence and all deliberate destruction of nature, because they can't even kill a fruit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Their population will quickly crash down to the size that can no longer threaten the planet's ecosystem.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, and it goes on to say, I think this is my favorite episode by far, clearly it's on my mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good point.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a theory in, and I can't name it, and I'm only just dimly aware of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But there's a theory in astro science, extraterrestrial, whatever is their life out there, stuff that posits that the reason why we're not in contact with any other sentient species is that there is a self-destruct limit.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when a population gets to a certain side, then of course, this is human centric theorizing here.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have no idea what the biological nature of other things.

[SPEAKER_03]: homo sapiens sapiens.

[SPEAKER_03]: There were other humans.

[SPEAKER_03]: There are other homo sapiens on this planet with us.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're no longer with us anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: What did we do to extrapate them?

[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a very human centric theory, but there is a theory out there about when when populations get to a point, the reason we're not in contact with them is because they've destroyed themselves.

[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a really fun twist on that theory, which is it neuters, it stops intergalactic destruction horizontally, because you get to the point where you can't do that any longer.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that's very- I think it's a really clever interpretation.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's super interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, a lot of other folks in our community about like agree with this theory.

[SPEAKER_02]: more feedback from Satochi.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that Tauichi?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is that Tauichi?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry every time.

[SPEAKER_02]: They send out the signal to deal with societies that have advanced enough technology to detect it, so that it slows them down so they can't explore space, kind of like Olympiating the competition.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not good for anyone but themselves real.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not for the good of anyone but themselves really.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that kind of mirrors that early are perspective for sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'd love, again, opening up a prompt to the plurbed mind if anybody knows about that theory that I was talking about, send in a report of voicemail or an email, who would love to hear your thoughts on that along with consent and writing historical romance, leaving else.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's been here from Carol this week that there was funny, it's folks on the discord.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're like, that's my new friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I said to that person, you should record in a voicemail talking to the other side of the community.

[SPEAKER_03]: You guys can do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: You guys can talk to each other and we'll be your mouthpieces for you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, let's wrap it up feedback pluribisatthelorhounds.com.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, emails or voicemail.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nancy is on the other end of that email, and we'll gladly...

[SPEAKER_03]: work with you if anything needs to be done, but definitely give a shout out to Nancy, if you do communicate with her and thank her for all her efforts and work.

[SPEAKER_03]: She is having a fun time.

[SPEAKER_03]: She loves this, guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: She, this is her, she wanted to do this.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're the beneficiary of her goodwill and this for her is a fun activity to deconstruct the show and write the notes for us.

[SPEAKER_03]: We profusely think or every time she does stuff like this, but The treasure.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's a national treasure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let me exactly link in the show notes for everything Let's talk about what's going on in the network.

[SPEAKER_03]: What's happening with never mind the music do you have a [SPEAKER_03]: You have a mail bag coming up right?

[SPEAKER_02]: We have a mail bag coming up and we're also both on break from our day job.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we've been recording nonstop.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, not nonstop, but we recorded for a couple of days.

[SPEAKER_02]: This pet, we just banking episodes to get us through to our spring break.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we have a high map of code coming out soon.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, I want to have a week.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can listen to this.

[SPEAKER_02]: So good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say nothing about time other than their three sisters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we talk about like other family bands.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about Shaggy and it wasn't me and then also like problematic protagonists and songs.

[SPEAKER_02]: So lots of cool content coming up on the Nevermind the Music feed.

[SPEAKER_02]: Please check it out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I follow us on Discord and gauge with us where we want here from you guys for sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've banged a couple of, I've downloaded a couple of episodes, but I banged them for the Christmas break so that I've got content to listen to all our traveling.

[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our newest one is about oasis and birth order theory, and it's a pretty cool nod to that like time and place of music if you're into.

[SPEAKER_03]: which is interesting about because the episode that I was on about generational music theory, which is how generations pass music to each other.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: Alicia's podcast worship dust.

[SPEAKER_03]: I believe they've got some Frankenstein stuff out in a big thing on Christmas Carol.

[SPEAKER_03]: Alicia does these really fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: projects every year and they're they're it's kind of like groundhog day in the sense of watching all the Christmas carols stuff so go check out her podcast again link in the show notes properly howard they're gonna be back very soon Anthony's been busy with a song of sore i forget what they would ever [SPEAKER_03]: whatever book in the jar jar martin house a game of throne series that he's on right now but he and Steve I believe are going to be covering night to seven kingdoms and they're going to be doing that on their properly powered feed because they've got a couple of other feeds with other podcasts but I think they're going to be covering that on the feed that they have with us so check them out [SPEAKER_03]: the big news is that fallout season two is back on Amazon.

[SPEAKER_03]: They are not binge dropping it.

[SPEAKER_03]: They are weekly releasing it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think they did a double drop and then it's going over the new year.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Aaron and Richard and I think Chase may, we'll see if Chase is in or out, but they are covering it over on the radioactive ramblers.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, link in the show notes for that, but go out, go there, [SPEAKER_03]: So go show them Aaron and the crew some love.

[SPEAKER_03]: They are our Gen Z pod gasters.

[SPEAKER_03]: And within our crew, we have a full spread from boomer on down.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Their contents really, really funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait for fallout and can't wait to hear what they have to say about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: On the lower hounds, we wrapped up it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Dairy Mark is released from his duty.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh...

i believe there are plans for a stranger things one shot in the new year uh...

alisha just recorded with Maryland and you have a leave for you guys did a two-part wicked you had it was so long that you had to break the episode if you really sit in the honors to really i think she's releasing it as one [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's out.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our recording.

[SPEAKER_02]: We ran out of time for our lives and we had to stop and like we schedule another time to finish up the second half of our conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was really fun to talk about what good with my relationship for reals.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then on December 25th.

[SPEAKER_03]: uh...

what is normally a uh...

subscriber only podcast will be released to the public it is our john elitian eyes tv top ten four twenty twenty five we break down our individual lists and uh...

along with the community ranking and that's one of the things that community members get to do [SPEAKER_03]: submit their top 10.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I make that sound like a privilege for most people.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's painful, especially this year.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, how do I rank my shows?

[SPEAKER_03]: And then we plug that all into data back in.

[SPEAKER_03]: Greg, saw, does some visualizations on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: we read those out as part of our top 10 countdown.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do 71.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of our subscribers just put the finishing touches on his draft for the blog post.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's with Brian.

[SPEAKER_03]: That'll go up on the blog.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there'll be a write up that everyone can see and then subscribers get to see the pretty visual graphics and what TV networks won and all that kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's out on the 25th and then on the [SPEAKER_03]: There is our boxing day episode, and that's me talking with all of our affiliates and co-hosts I talked to you in Mark, I talked to Marilyn and Jean, I talked to Ian from Captains pod, a bunch of other people, I got about like six segments, and I do top threes with everybody, because otherwise it would be long, and as it is right now, it's [SPEAKER_03]: just under a four hour podcast, but it's six segments with six everybody I'll put notes in the I'll put time codes in the in the show notes but it's a perfect episode to listen to as you're out on your Christmas day walks or you're traveling what have you it's great slow slow content slow podcast content for the holiday break.

[SPEAKER_03]: and then we will be back to cover night of the seven kingdoms in January and we've got a bunch of other stuff covering but I think that's about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's wrap it up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Quick shout out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Did you want me to or do you want to?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, you can go for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're so good at it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's muscle memory.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love bombing.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's muscle.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hey everybody, future editor David dropping in here quickly to mention that both Nicole and I forgot to put in a mention about the end credit song this is the band traffic sound they are late 60s early 70s Peruvian psychedelic and progressive rock band.

[SPEAKER_03]: and it turns out Nicole and her husband are big fans and have been listening to them for a long time.

[SPEAKER_03]: So she knew this song.

[SPEAKER_03]: The song you got to be sure was originally issued as a B-side to the single Lakamita and the lyrics have obvious connections to both Carol and Manusos enjoy the cut as we listen to it on the shoutout thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Disport Server Boosters, Aaron K.

Tiller, the Thriller, do 71, Athena Agileh, the Stu, Nancy M, Ghost of Partition, radioactive Richard, and Audreon, Warmasters, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E.

SC, Peter I, Nancy M, do 71, Brian E.

[SPEAKER_03]: 3.

[SPEAKER_03]: Frederick H.

Sarah L.

Garth C.

Andre B.

Callin' You.

[SPEAKER_03]: T.

Sub-Zero.

[SPEAKER_03]: Aaron K.

Dally B.

Motherhip 61.

[SPEAKER_03]: Norles.

[SPEAKER_03]: Kathy W.

W.

Stu.

[SPEAKER_03]: Jeffrey B.

Alisa U.

Benby.

[SPEAKER_03]: Scott F.

Steven N.

Julia F.

Collie S.

Ilmaril.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Rocky Zim.

[SPEAKER_03]: Jessica A.

Redzippie.

[SPEAKER_03]: The TCS.

[SPEAKER_03]: Duba.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ketchits, LNR, and Pervilass, and Pervilass.

[SPEAKER_03]: These are our Discord server boosters who make our Discord a better place for the community and our loremasters who are our top tier subscribers who, without their support, this podcast and all this community work that we do would not be awesome or fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think this is the last time we will talk until after Christmas day.

[SPEAKER_03]: So this is also the last night of Ponecos, so all those who celebrate and observe that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy Ponecos to you, Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays for in general, for anyone who celebrates anything else that I can do.

[SPEAKER_02]: and we'll see you guys again after Christmas to record a quick recap of the last episode of this season and then we'll percolate on that for a little while and then get back together for like a deep dive into that episode and the overall arc of the season and maybe some expectations for season too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can't wait, look forward to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Lorehound podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can send questions and comments to Lorehounds at thewarhounds.com.

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