[UNKNOWN]: Bye-bye!

[SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to the Pluribus podcast where the lore hounds were guides to many things, but we are not, I repeat, not your guides to the Gary in-depth.

[SPEAKER_06]: No way, nope, no thanks, no how not happening.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm David, I'm one of the regular hosts of the lore hounds.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I'm Nicole and one of the hosts have never mind the music podcast and affiliate of the lore hounds network.

[SPEAKER_09]: And we've teamed up to cover season 1 of Pluribus on Apple TV.

[SPEAKER_09]: I am not your guide [SPEAKER_06]: Did I say Gary and that, did I stumble on my tongue?

[SPEAKER_09]: I think it's kind of funnier that way.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: I have podcast or my- This is our podcast coming episode seven, The Gap.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nicole did our strategy work because we got tons of feet back.

[SPEAKER_09]: We got, like, not too much.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not going to just lay the listeners, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: But it's just a lot of feet back this week.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I think our strategy worked.

[SPEAKER_06]: What does that say about humanity?

[SPEAKER_09]: I think like a lot of us are people, please, and we just want to make others happy, which isn't very much in the nature.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And if you want to make us happy and send in your feedback, you can do so by sending emails and voicemails to plurvisatthelorhouns.com, our dear, dear third member of this podcast.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nancy, hand to the pod, keep her the chronicles is on the other end of the line and she will help coordinate your feedback and get it into our outline.

[SPEAKER_06]: So Nancy did a lot of work this week.

[SPEAKER_06]: So thank you.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like she led with kindness the whole time.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I really appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: She really did.

[SPEAKER_09]: You can email your feedback to porous at lorehounds.com or send us some notes on the Discord.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're happy to include almost everything in our recaps here, but if you can send us an email or voicemail that'd be awesome, Discord's a really great place for live chatting.

[SPEAKER_06]: And there's a lot of live chatting happening there.

[SPEAKER_09]: There's been a lot of live chatting.

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't keep up with it as much as I would intend to, but it's nice to know that you're out there.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the show is just affecting people and I'm just glad that we have a sort of a very cool and positive and constructive community where people can come and like just go like, whoa, like, what is going on?

[SPEAKER_06]: Why am I responding this way?

[SPEAKER_06]: But anyway, we are an independent podcast.

[SPEAKER_06]: And if you're interested in supporting us and have the means to do so, we'd really love to have you be a subscriber.

[SPEAKER_06]: Subscribers get all kinds of bonus episodes.

[SPEAKER_06]: They get insider access to some things on the discord.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you get the warm, happy, glow, knowing that you are supporting independent podcasters like us.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's links for everything in the show notes, the email address, the links for the discord and links for our couple of different subscriber platforms.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nicole, we have a packed episode today.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I think we should just get right into a cover some hot takes.

[SPEAKER_06]: We've got some feedback covering episode six that we're going to cover in here.

[SPEAKER_06]: A couple of smaller meta topics and then we'll get into our scene by scene breakdown.

[SPEAKER_06]: How did you feel about this episode?

[SPEAKER_09]: I thought it was a beautiful episode, and I kept thinking of their location scouts throughout the production of how were they going to set up these shots, especially him through the jungle and him and his montage of him traveling just was really beautiful and rich.

[SPEAKER_09]: I really like seeing Carol's progression, her like progressive affect throughout this episode, and we can talk about that as well.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm really thankful for all the rich community feedback, and we'll for sure give it all your feedback today.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I was most struck at the scene of her in the convenience store with like, what the plurbs left behind.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, they took everything, they reallocated resources, but they left so many cigarettes, and they left so many fireworks.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, only things that would harm her.

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't think about dates.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's interesting.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we should do.

[SPEAKER_06]: We should talk about that later.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and then they just took the things that would be maladapted would be bad for her or they left the things that would be bad for her and I wonder it's got to be they do nothing unintentionally.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I feel like it has to be intentional and I read the scene differently.

[SPEAKER_06]: But we'll talk about it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I just I would have taken all those cigarettes.

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like in this situation.

[SPEAKER_06]: Would you start smoking again?

[SPEAKER_09]: I am million percent.

[SPEAKER_09]: What's that saying again?

[SPEAKER_06]: I might do.

[SPEAKER_06]: I might do.

[SPEAKER_10]: What else are we doing?

[SPEAKER_06]: We social stigma.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like who cares?

[SPEAKER_06]: That's healthcare in the world, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: You know?

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: No act.

[SPEAKER_06]: No waiting lines.

[SPEAKER_06]: And writing.

[SPEAKER_09]: What's the worst thing?

[SPEAKER_09]: We shouldn't joke about cancer.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's not like a joke.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is very serious.

[SPEAKER_09]: Very, very serious thing.

[SPEAKER_09]: And at that point, it's really as a smoke and if you got them situation, and she's got them, so she should be smoking them.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a long, Jebady question, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, who cares?

[SPEAKER_06]: When is it gonna affect you?

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's a terrible thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I know it's destroyed many families, and it's for horrible, so-called situation.

[SPEAKER_06]: But at the same time, it's like junk food.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like being compelled, I go, God.

[SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, it's like, they like took the mountain and do, but left the cigarettes.

[SPEAKER_09]: you can't get a gatorade.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, what are your hot takes on this?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't know if we should call them hot takes, but somebody on Spotify gave us a jokey comment that our takes weren't very hot, so maybe these are tepid takes.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're not ice cold takes.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're not hot takes.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're a tepid.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm making fun of what would be like, oh, are they looking for controversy?

[SPEAKER_09]: I guess maybe I, I think the kids say hot takes in a different way than we're saying like hot take it's something that like other people disagree with or like other people disagree with but you're on board with like hot takes I would smoke all the cigarettes right and I think hot takes isn't post to as is like served fresh.

[SPEAKER_06]: not not spicy or upset not upsetting is the right word challenging right yet it's not like that those are not our objects.

[SPEAKER_06]: So anyway this episode this show it's like there's everything to say and nothing to say.

[SPEAKER_06]: Because I think this, it's like, is this a perfect episode?

[SPEAKER_06]: Is this a perfect show?

[SPEAKER_06]: And when it's perfect and in every aspect, it's hard to take it apart.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes you just want to just leave it be and just admire its beauty and just say nothing and just be with it.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of how I feel about that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I got plenty to say, but I was really struggling this morning to think about, oh, last episode, I had plenty to say this one, not so much.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want to give a quick shout to Carlos Manuel Vesca's Samsh Sambashute and Carolina Wydra this.

[SPEAKER_06]: level of acting, okay, it's Racy Horn, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, fine.

[SPEAKER_06]: She kills it, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Every time.

[SPEAKER_06]: But these three actors who I've never gotten a chance to experience before are just extraordinary.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I just want to just be so grateful to the show for finding and casting these amazing actors because they all are just bringing so much to everything that they do on screen.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's so great.

[SPEAKER_06]: We got a ton of feedback like we said so I kind of feel like we should just jump right into it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't have much more hot take action to go one quick shout out [SPEAKER_06]: to a new website, I've only found this recently after podcasting for multiple years now.

[SPEAKER_06]: TuneFind.com has like every song in an episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how they're doing it, you know, that's awesome.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_06]: Scraping IMDB or whatever.

[SPEAKER_06]: Of course, they have links to like, oh, you want to listen to this, you can go, you know, in a player of choice or whatever, but it just makes the job so much easier.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I do.

[SPEAKER_06]: We're not sponsored by the Sponsor House.

[SPEAKER_09]: You can sponsor us and also check out never mind the music a great podcast for music.

[SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_09]: Sponsor us too.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, sponsor them before he's sponsored the laurels.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think it's all trickles.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's a trickle down sponsorship.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, this episode has a great.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'll say soundtrack, but a lot of it was just [SPEAKER_05]: But they still have to secure the rights for those.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, absolutely, they did.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, what it was just such an interesting episode from her perspective.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I can't wait to dive into it.

[SPEAKER_09]: But first, some feedback from episode six, yes.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have a voicemail from Caroline.

[SPEAKER_09]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hi, guys.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's Caroline.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm an American who came to England.

[SPEAKER_04]: The study Greek and Latin.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I stayed on to live in London and write historical novels.

[SPEAKER_04]: Set in the ancient world.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm loving pleurabess, which is a brilliant thought experiment.

[SPEAKER_04]: What if people became kind, non-violent vegans who only wanted to make each other happy?

[SPEAKER_04]: Would we even be human anymore?

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm loving your podcast because it focuses so intelligently on psychology and sociology.

[SPEAKER_04]: In episode 6, H.D.P.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.

[SPEAKER_04]: And he wrote this in the 5th century BC that's over 400 years before the birth of Jesus Christ.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is what he wrote.

[SPEAKER_04]: When Darius was king, he summoned some Greeks and asked them how much he should pay them to eat their parents dead bodies.

[SPEAKER_04]: They replied there was no price for which they would do it.

[SPEAKER_04]: Then Darius summoned those called Colatiai from India because they do eat their parents.

[SPEAKER_04]: With the Greeks present and understanding through interpreters what was said, he asked them what he could do to make them cremate their fathers at death.

[SPEAKER_04]: They cried out that he should not even speak of so horrid and act.

[SPEAKER_04]: So in other words, to one cultural group, the idea of burning their dead was as apparent as the idea of eating the dead was to the Greeks and to us.

[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, Herodotus is pointing out how people from varying cultures can be so different.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's just one of the reasons I love this intelligent and thought-provoking show and your podcast.

[SPEAKER_04]: Keep up the good work.

[SPEAKER_09]: Wow, what a great voicemail.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm always so impressed by the Laura Hong community and what breadth of knowledge exists within our membership.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, we have like experts in the field chiming and it's it's really, really intriguing and yeah, Caroline speaking of cultural relativism that what's wild for us as a culture is normal for another culture and that's what we're seeing with Carol and the plurbs and even Carol and the other unjoined is this disconnect between cultural norms and cultural schemas.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I think this was a really informed, obviously, a very informed comment and added a great [SPEAKER_06]: I hope that we hear from Caroline again in the future.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know that we've heard Caroline.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how long Caroline has been a listener, but.

[SPEAKER_06]: welcome if you're newer and I would love to hear some more about what you do and we have a strong British contingent even though you're an American living in England we do have a lot of our I think that's our number two listening region is that's the UK that in Canada or sort of our two number two is in threes that said what's interesting I'm thinking about two which we'll talk about later is the chunga plants the black palm that Manusos has an unfortunate encounter [SPEAKER_06]: He talks about, uh, sorry, the actor Carlos, um, where is it in my notes, I don't have it in my Carlos Manuel Vesca talks about how that plant is actually a deeply important part of the local community, the cultures of the local communities in that region.

[SPEAKER_06]: and how we see it as this monster, right, the monster in the jungle.

[SPEAKER_06]: In fact, it is an incredibly important source of food and materials and culture.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's really incredible.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we'll talk, I've got some notes about it later on.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's cool.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can't wait.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love how that Caroline's email, like really points to that, like you were saying.

[SPEAKER_06]: we're perceiving it in one direction, but if you go, if you spin around it to another direction, you have a completely different point if you want it.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then you even can really, [SPEAKER_09]: really get into it as we're known to do about like the social ethics like what is the right thing to do and who gets to decide what the right thing to do is like who's who's culture defines the norm and like spoiler no one does like we're all defining our own norms but that's definitely a bigger conversation and we have too much to cover we can't keep deep diving into social ethics too.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want to highlight something there too because the show brings up a lot of LGBTQ and specifically Lesbian culture in this.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's so many made a comment about golf and George O'Keefe and I will survive as a song that played on the player piano.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's like, oh, these are so interesting things.

[SPEAKER_06]: And as a, you know, cis-hat male, white male, like, is it my space to talk about those cultures?

[SPEAKER_06]: Or, you know, how do I navigate those kinds of things?

[SPEAKER_06]: So I'm like, always thinking about that.

[SPEAKER_06]: How do I represent or reports versus represents, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: There's a difference there.

[SPEAKER_09]: But you also could, all those examples, you could reframe to fit your culture, like your presenting white male, you could say that golf is representative of white male culture.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right, right, right, or like I will survive is specific of like your generational demographic maybe, right, you could reframe it all to fit in George O'Keefe because of the region there [SPEAKER_09]: We're putting it into bins of LBGTQI representation, because that fits the narrative we're trying to craft here, but you could take that same information and shove it into a different narrative that feeds your points to.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[UNKNOWN]: So.

[SPEAKER_09]: Lots to talk about.

[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, my coffee's just kicked it and let's go.

[SPEAKER_10]: Just dialed in.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have another email from Cincinnati Joe.

[SPEAKER_09]: The hive has apparently figured out how to convert a moon.

[SPEAKER_09]: Does that mean they've already done it?

[SPEAKER_09]: Perhaps they've converted the young woman who wanted to be with her family.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think I have.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would certainly think that that young woman and I apologize I don't remember her her name.

[SPEAKER_06]: But she would I could see it would be logical to assume that she would be one of the first candidates to to try stem cell therapy to to join.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I don't know if Lakshmi is going to join or not.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's so interesting when you think about consent.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, she, this juvenile couldn't give legal consent.

[SPEAKER_09]: So maybe they wouldn't have joined her.

[SPEAKER_09]: Her parents could consent on her behalf, but if her parents are plurbs, they're obviously gonna say yes.

[SPEAKER_09]: So are they compromised in that consent?

[SPEAKER_09]: It gets to be tricky, I'm not sure.

[SPEAKER_05]: How many of those rules apply?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we're following APA ethical guidelines here.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, when they came trailed the entire world, nobody gave consent.

[SPEAKER_09]: Nobody gave any consent.

[SPEAKER_09]: No, they definitely, and it was implied that they're doing no harm, but again, who gets to decide what's harmful or not?

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: So we don't have answers for you, Cincinnati Joe, but thanks for your feedback.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's a good theory, and it's a good thought, right?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: Do you want to take Steve's email?

[SPEAKER_06]: Sure Steve says I listened to this week's excellent pod and David and Nicole's discussion on Diabati.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think he may have been a servant, maybe a royal servant, and possibly his entire life.

[SPEAKER_06]: his knowledge of how to prepare a fine meal, but not knowing how to enjoy it, illustrate it.

[SPEAKER_06]: He knows what luxury is and how to provide it.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's just never been allowed to enjoy it himself.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like you both said, he'll get bored of it eventually, but he's going to enjoy the hell out of it for now.

[SPEAKER_09]: I loved this feedback when I came in, or when I saw this email, I was like, [SPEAKER_09]: And then we're seeing in this episode like that's kind of rubbing off on Carol a little bit she's leaning in because she's like well, why not right like what else am I doing maybe I should just take the painting maybe I should just play golf with this bison or whatever it was like why not like explore how far I can push these plurbs to get me the cold escape rate and I think that.

[SPEAKER_09]: This was a really interesting commentary on D.

Beattie's backstory, like where is he from, and I do think it does map a lot to his present behavior.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and whether he was a quote unquote servant, or he could have just worked in the tourism industry, you know, in hospitality or something.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly, where he's providing luxury for other people, but then not necessarily partaking it of himself, being adjacent to it, [SPEAKER_06]: And certainly in Western media, one of our chief exports of from the United States is a film and television.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so there's a lot of it on display.

[SPEAKER_06]: And not that we need to display luxury.

[SPEAKER_06]: luxury has been around and part of the global cultures for as long as there have been humans, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: And as long as we decided that I get to have a little bit nicer house than somebody else.

[SPEAKER_09]: seemingly very superficial and not rooted in self-care, just rooted in outward appearance, like the sweet at the fancy hotel and the fancy cars and the nice clothes and the double-o-seven tropes, right there.

[SPEAKER_09]: They're really conventional, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think Carol's luxury is becoming a little bit more unconventional, a little bit more nuanced.

[SPEAKER_09]: So what's luxurious to her?

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and that goes to their different life as lived experiences, where they come from in the world and what access do they have to material wealth and to be able to provide for themselves for those creature comforts?

[SPEAKER_09]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_09]: Great, great comments.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have a voicemail from Stewart here.

[SPEAKER_09]: Let's hear it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Laura Holmes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, this is Stewart aka with Stu.

[SPEAKER_03]: I this is the first time [SPEAKER_03]: and I wanted to say I have a question or a theory about episode six.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm sending this in the Monday and we just watched the episode six on Sunday after your podcast came out for that.

[SPEAKER_03]: one of the joint.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the proof of that that I have is he calls in his penthouse the she picks up the phone and dials it.

[SPEAKER_03]: What what why wouldn't they think it was her or why would they think it was her why wouldn't they think it was him.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Mike Mike.

[SPEAKER_03]: Question comes.

[SPEAKER_03]: How do they know?

[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they're watching CCTV that makes sense, but we've never seen the music technology like that before.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, unless they're, I mean, yes, using the technology of the board.

[SPEAKER_03]: Move it this way.

[SPEAKER_03]: If it's not CCTV, [SPEAKER_03]: or if he's not joined, then it's CCTV and that's just, that's just rude.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's it.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'd great to talk to you guys, and thank you for the wonderful episode, and, um, Dave and Nicole, I really appreciate you guys diving into Carol and her three-dimensional personhood, and I really appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, bye.

[SPEAKER_09]: What a great voicemail.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's really cool to hear your voices, guys.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like we read your comments all the time and your voices so much great characters do it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we've just been around for a minute, especially active on the discord, different shows and so it's great to hear from people.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's like, I'll say it's vulnerable to leave a voicemail and have a podcast.

[SPEAKER_09]: It is.

[SPEAKER_09]: So thank you for doing that.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure about this theory.

[SPEAKER_09]: I can easily poke holes in it and just say they probably just gave them different numbers to call.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, that's something.

[SPEAKER_09]: But I do like the boredness of it all.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've had more than that.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I'm into big next gen fan.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's part of our cultural lexicon now.

[SPEAKER_10]: Gosh, I'm going to get sidetracked about the new next generation Lego set.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's like the whole enterprise and all the minifigures I haven't seen it.

[SPEAKER_10]: It is so cool, but this is not what we're talking about today.

[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, no, this is the second side jack.

[SPEAKER_10]: No.

[SPEAKER_06]: My uncommon story that in the hot tub, he was not aware that they were, he was getting a visitor, right, all his companions paused and they were like, you know, the signal is coming in.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were like, oh, we got to go by and he didn't get that signal.

[SPEAKER_06]: He was like, wait, what's going on?

[SPEAKER_06]: Certainly he is in a high degree of communication.

[SPEAKER_06]: What do I want to say that way with the joint?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he's communicating with them all over the place.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, for no reason.

[SPEAKER_09]: Well, we don't know that.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're assuming, but he seems like the incident.

[SPEAKER_09]: Sorry, this has been bad.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's he does seem like like they're inside man.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that he does have like a more coworker reciprocal relationship to the joint, especially more than Carol does at present moment in this series.

[SPEAKER_09]: So we'll see what happens next.

[SPEAKER_06]: on this spectrum of of different possible responses.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's the one that's embraced it and said, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to accept this reality for what it is and I'm going to go with it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: As opposed to Manuso, she's not accepting the reality and he's leaving [SPEAKER_06]: money on the windscreens of when he's taking stuff that is like a, like, bro, even if you guys reverse the RNA sequence thing, it's never going to go back to the same, you know, like, that you're leaving money.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a different context.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're in a completely different social [SPEAKER_09]: But that, like, really speaks to his moral compass and his ethical own individual moral code.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I have so much to say about that.

[SPEAKER_09]: The leaving money piece, especially when you parallel it with like what he says to about them.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I want to like put it in that later, but there was so endearing to me.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have another discord comment that I want to include from Peter 077.

[SPEAKER_09]: Peter 0H.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, H.

He is a lore master subscriber.

[SPEAKER_06]: One of our top tier and long-term subscribers.

[SPEAKER_06]: Peter has been a great, great cornerstone of our community.

[SPEAKER_09]: Well, excuse me.

[SPEAKER_09]: He wrote away.

[SPEAKER_09]: Seven, so nice to meet you.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's pretty chill.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_10]: I got a call.

[SPEAKER_09]: Peter says it's a little sad for Carol that the other unjoined have rejected her, but part of the reason for that is her own wrongheadedness.

[SPEAKER_09]: She refuses to read a room and she's quite abrasive.

[SPEAKER_09]: I definitely think there's hope for her and she deserves that space and grace from the other unjoined.

[SPEAKER_09]: Carol also seems like a stand-in for the USA, while the other undrived representatives of the other countries.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, she, you couldn't, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm laughing because it's cutting, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, it cuts right to the quake.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like, yeah, like, we're what she's what Americans travel.

[SPEAKER_09]: This is what we're called as Carol's.

[SPEAKER_09]: No, just kidding.

[SPEAKER_09]: Carol is harming people and being a disruptor for us, but not fully understanding how she's doing that and subsequently being confused as to why the others don't like her.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's the end of Peter's comments, but I'll add like.

[SPEAKER_09]: She is harming other people and being in disruptive force, but I don't think, I don't think it's intentional, I don't think her intention is to harm, I do think she just can't like you say can't read the room and I think that maybe she, oh, no.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to start myself.

[SPEAKER_09]: I was going to say I don't think maybe she never could do that, but she could aptly when she was on the book tour.

[SPEAKER_09]: She read the room quite well.

[SPEAKER_09]: So, something's changing within Carol, and I think in this episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: We really see a progression of her mental state and like a breaking happening in a real way.

[SPEAKER_09]: So maybe this not reading the room and being harmful and being abrasive was always in her, but the cracks are showing in her affect in her facade, through this ridiculous, emotionally charged experience she's living through.

[SPEAKER_09]: I loved your comment and I think it does add value to Carol as like a three-dimensional person like when she becomes self-aware of how much she's hurting other people and I think we're about I think we see it in this episode for sure and I really want to highlight the students comment there about the three-dimensionality of Carol and a lot of people [SPEAKER_06]: are very affected by Carol, the portrayal of Carol in this fictional story, but people are feeling it in their lives.

[SPEAKER_06]: And either, yeah, I identify or I don't identify, but that contrast of not identifying is as affecting, for people who are identifying with their, and that just goes to the writing and the performance and the way that this show is being shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: this idea that Carol, she can be self-reflective.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we've highlighted this a couple of times.

[SPEAKER_06]: She said, is there something you can give me to stop me from doing that?

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: She looks at a drink and says, no, I'm not going to have a drink right now.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then she's challenged and stressed out.

[SPEAKER_06]: And she grabs the drink up and knocks it back.

[SPEAKER_09]: She has a really hard time regulating her emotions.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like she's in the beat.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: And there was, there's been chatter about the fact that she doesn't have her own mobile phone in episode one, Helen has it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Why?

[SPEAKER_06]: And some of the theories are impulse control, like if she's doing it on to the Reddit thread for her books or whatever, she wouldn't necessarily have a healthy reaction to what she was reading.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, even when she got access to all the world's knowledge by interviewing [SPEAKER_09]: that the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right job and the right [SPEAKER_09]: And we get much more insight towards that in this episode, I think when we start to see she's breaking.

[SPEAKER_09]: It looks superficial at first, but then we do see a real progression as time marches forward for her and the character.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we can talk more about Carol on the other side of the break and there's a really great comment about the cop car from Jean one of our co-hosts on the [SPEAKER_06]: But let's take a quick break, and then when we come back, I kind of wanted to talk about microaggressions.

[SPEAKER_06]: And what is aggressive and passive aggressive types of behaviors.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then I also wanted to explore a little bit about the title of the show, the gap.

[SPEAKER_06]: And what are some media-bedded meanings in that title?

[SPEAKER_06]: Because there's a whole bunch of stuff in there.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's also [SPEAKER_06]: And we're back, so there was a lot of chatter in the discord this week about Carol and some messages and stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then we also got a very polite email that did bring up the topic of microaggressions and relative to our pronunciation of Diabate's name.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I wanted to say something quickly about that and I appreciate the listeners' email that names are one of the biggest, [SPEAKER_06]: places in the podcast realm where friction is generated between listeners and podcasts hosts.

[SPEAKER_06]: And there's a bunch of stuff that goes on in that space.

[SPEAKER_06]: One of it is just general pronunciation and knowing how to pronounce somebody's name and how you handle that if you don't know it, then there are the literally mental trip ups.

[SPEAKER_06]: Something, a neuron gets stuck in a particular position in your brain.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you get past it, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: That's just normal life, right?

[SPEAKER_10]: And I'm not going to nitpick the neuroscience of that statement.

[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's like not what's happening.

[SPEAKER_06]: Go on.

[SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, I'm going to simplify it.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's fine.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, grossly, grossly, simplifying it.

[SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, that's what it feels like.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's just like something that's stuck in a way, and you can't get off of it, and you can't.

[SPEAKER_06]: Switch it, and then when you do do say something, misspronouncing it wrong, or when you misspronouncing it wrong, can I speak English?

[SPEAKER_06]: Then it sometimes becomes a little joke, and then it sort of becomes a bit in a gag.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then there are other people who other podcasts, who just take it and just go, well, fuck it, I'm just going to say it this way, because that's the way I'm going to say it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so there's different response, internal responses to it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I remember when John and I started the [SPEAKER_06]: the history before Lord of the Rings and, you know, history sort of out of the Silmarillion, and I mispronounced Galadriel wrong, and man they came for me.

[SPEAKER_06]: They came from me hard with pitchforks and torches and we got so many emails about it and it's like, I get it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I made a mistake.

[SPEAKER_06]: So there is this interesting place where if you missed pronounced stuff on a regular basis, people write in and they get really they're going to be in their bonnet about it.

[SPEAKER_09]: I get it.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's like when you listen to and you read a book and then you listen to the audio book and you're like, oh, I've been saying characters name wrong the whole time.

[SPEAKER_09]: And for me, and deobody, it is like the reading it for saying it piece.

[SPEAKER_09]: I really appreciated the feedback we got about how name names are important and it does matter.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_09]: We talk about that in the classroom all the time.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like how [SPEAKER_09]: say students names out loud and address them by their, they're given name and not the, you know, the name that they're preferred name.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, and I, I do honor that.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I was really appreciative of that feedback to kind of for us to be a little bit more dialed in.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, and we try to be dialed in on on the laureants.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's our general vibe.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's, it's awesome.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like, thank you.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, [SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you happen because of it happens because of your internal biases that you might not have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just something that you don't have.

[SPEAKER_09]: owned yet, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: So we have, we're going to get into this microaggression piece now, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I have an example of voicemail, but go ahead.

[SPEAKER_09]: So as humans, we're all, we all have biases and some are implicit and some are explicit and implicit biases are ones that you don't really know that you have.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, [SPEAKER_09]: Assuming that doctors are male or assuming that teachers are female, you might not have that in the forefront of your brain, but it still kind of exists inside of you.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's one example.

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you ever read the Richard Scary Bucks to your kids?

[SPEAKER_06]: No, you know, the little animals.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the real yes it seems man we read the old ones.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a new reissue of them, but it was like to change a bunch.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, boy, the encoding in there and as a as a dad to a young woman who identifies as a woman.

[SPEAKER_06]: We were like, geez, this, the encoding and the, the cultural encoding of, of, of norms of who, who, oh, the beautiful sturdist in the brave pilot.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's not even just, um, but children's books.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we see that in textbooks quite a bit, that like imagery and textbooks in case study examples and textbooks.

[SPEAKER_09]: the cultural encoding becomes a really big piece there so much that we know that standardized testing has implicit and explicit biases against certain demographics because of the encoding that happens in the the source text.

[SPEAKER_09]: So it's a it's a deep issue to root out.

[SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, the explicit biases are easier to root out because they're explicit.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like you stated, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're stated.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: I believe that certain populations, certain demographics are good or bad for certain reasons, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: And you're obtuse with that.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's these implicit biases that lead to microaggressions, you know, when we say to a person, a student of color, oh, you're writing is so elegant and so polished like what I say the same thing right to like a European white student.

[SPEAKER_09]: I probably would, because I'm a bucket filler in the classroom, but.

[SPEAKER_06]: But we have to use that of being a bucket filler.

[SPEAKER_06]: That bucket filler?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, my gosh.

[SPEAKER_09]: Either you're like a bucket filler or a bucket dipper, like a bucket filler, like builds people up and a bucket dipper takes away.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_09]: So when we talk about.

[SPEAKER_06]: Categories or categorizations of instructional style.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I mean, or just we talk about like social, emotional learning for kids, like that's language that they use.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, these microaggressions you might be trying to be a bucket filler, but really you're a bucket deeper and you don't even know it because of your own implicit biases.

[SPEAKER_09]: So [SPEAKER_09]: As a woman, we get microaggressed on all the time.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not a person of color.

[SPEAKER_09]: If I was a woman of color, we start to talk about intersectionality and how it's a whole different pile of adversity to overcome because you're not just a woman, you're a person of color, and that those two combined identities in the venn diagram of those identities.

[SPEAKER_09]: sit a whole unique set of challenges that are unique to womanhood or blackhood, black personhood, that's probably not the right thing to say.

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't mean that as a microaggression.

[SPEAKER_08]: I just don't not.

[SPEAKER_08]: I just don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: So that's what I, that's my primer.

[SPEAKER_06]: on biases and microaggression quick shout out to the National Public Radio NPR podcast fresh air or radio show now podcast.

[SPEAKER_06]: Racie Horn was on it and I caught a little bit of her interview this morning and one of the questions that she gets asked is about [SPEAKER_06]: anger, you know, because there's this question of happiness versus anger, and Carol is a person who has anger and managing her anger.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Racy, he won't talk a whole bunch about being a woman, being an actor, and how she responds to anger, and aggression towards other people, or versus aggression towards her and her responses.

[SPEAKER_06]: So shout out for that interview.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was really what I [SPEAKER_09]: often when I watch this show and more when I read content about it or hear people's responses to Carol, I do often think like, would you have said the same thing and this is a male character, or a non-binary character, would you have had the same need for her to be as performative about happiness, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: I think is it maybe it's Cincinnati, Joe, it comes up later, there's another piece of feedback about.

[SPEAKER_06]: That, uh, very question about, and it's a Star Trek next generation question.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh my gosh, I feel like they're in Carol's a Captain Picard.

[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like I really found my people here, speaking of my people, we have always smelled from my co-host Mark.

[SPEAKER_09]: Can we listen to it?

[SPEAKER_06]: We can.

[SPEAKER_06]: Can I preface it's like, yeah, sorry.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'm just moving along.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, it's perfect.

[SPEAKER_06]: And no, it was a perfect.

[SPEAKER_06]: Say, we have very professional segue.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I want to joke.

[SPEAKER_06]: We're having a back and forth joking session with Mark about a bunch of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so I want folks to make sure that they understand that this, you know, the talking to the team, this, but this is a perfect.

[SPEAKER_06]: joking example of passive aggressive and micro aggressive.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I don't even know if it's micro aggressive behavior.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's just aggressive behavior.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe here's this, here's this funny smell.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Laura, this is Mark calling in with a voicemail.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Nicole, fancy seeing you on the opposite side of the microphone.

[SPEAKER_02]: Are you enjoying your new co-host?

[SPEAKER_02]: How is his knowledge of music theory?

[SPEAKER_02]: How is his knowledge of music history?

[SPEAKER_02]: Does he have a bachelor's degree in political science that he never uses also?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, hi, David.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for stealing my coals.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, in all seriousness, sort of.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here is my feedback via voicemail for episode six.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is recorded after listening to your podcast before seeing the newer episode that's coming out in at the end of the week.

[SPEAKER_02]: David, you talked about you shouldn't eat predators because they're too far up the food chain.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, first of all, you do probably eat fish and some of them are predators and carnivores.

[SPEAKER_02]: So while I think predator meat is not necessarily good, always it's not necessarily a rule that we can translate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe terrestrial predators aren't as yummy in any case.

[SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned you should eat bear organs instead of bear meat if you had to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't eat polar bear liver.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is actually toxic to humans.

[SPEAKER_02]: It has a high concentration of vitamin A.

I'm sure folks on the discord are already saying this.

[SPEAKER_10]: Like how does he know that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Nicole, I knew you weren't really vibing with episode six, the whole reveal falling flat.

[SPEAKER_02]: You thought it should be more exciting.

[SPEAKER_02]: The reveal in that episode is not that it's humans.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're eating.

[SPEAKER_02]: The reveal is that Diabate and the other sort of individuals already know.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the shocking reveal.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's that it's no big deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Mark.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Mark.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're expecting a place to see the cannibalism coming, but not see everybody's indifference to cannibalism coming.

[SPEAKER_02]: Aside from feedback on your takes, I just wanted to add a couple quick things here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think the other 11, I think it's 11, I don't think it's 12.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think the other 11 are bonkers and hypocritical.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Carol is not very friendly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, she is very my way or the highway.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she very obviously comes by her opinions, honestly.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's pretty understandable.

[SPEAKER_02]: to think in the situation that somebody would want to make things go back to normal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I can see that they maybe have family that are a part of the plurbs, they maybe have information she doesn't, but still, they should be able to empathize with her point of view.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's coming from a sort of, I would think, a default notion.

[SPEAKER_02]: The 11 of them by being happy with the fact that the Earth has been taken over by another [SPEAKER_02]: If not her attitude, should be understandable.

[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't, even since that, I think the second episode when we saw them, it's never really set right with me that they can think she was outrageous.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she's acting outrageous, and acting holier than now.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is very much the pot calling the kettle black for them to look at her and just a fix on her this label of being unreasonable.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because she has a reasonable worldview.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's just not dealing with it well.

[SPEAKER_02]: How's this for a crazy analogy?

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say we were all lost in the woods and it was in the winter.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we stumbled upon a fast food restaurant.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, hey, we should go eat that fast food restaurant.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you too, see a pile of yellow snow.

[SPEAKER_02]: You say no, we should eat the yellow snow.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I start being a real dick about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not listening to you at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want the yellow snow.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have to eat at the restaurant.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now, YouTube maybe know that inside that restaurant is a bunch of poison or a serial killer or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you also know that the yellow snow is just super powered lemon juice or something like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's totally safe.

[SPEAKER_02]: But my position is still the one that on the face of it is reasonable.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I'm being a big dick about it, but you can't look at me and say I'm crazy, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It does very much seem like they're grouping themselves together as the good guys, so to speak.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they need to show a little more empathy for Carol's position, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Jerk or not.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, think back to Conclave or something like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a line in that movie about the certainty being kind of the enemy in a lot of ways and not allowing for flexible worldviews.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think also Diabate is pretty hypocritical also.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's talking about trying to save the population of the world, yet he's consuming innumerable resources for his sex fantasies, essentially.

[SPEAKER_02]: David was speaking about him kind of, it sounded like you were implying that he was empathetic, and that he cared about other people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't square that with him saying, oh, we want to keep them alive longer.

[SPEAKER_02]: When every day he has these casino royal fantasies is probably a day that billions of people aren't going to [SPEAKER_02]: And also on that note, I like that he has John Cena.

[SPEAKER_02]: They are teaching him wrestling moves and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: But let's be real, the super beautiful women and actors playing in these fantasies of his and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: They would not just be random beautiful women and actors.

[SPEAKER_02]: They would be famous.

[SPEAKER_02]: whichever a list starlet he was in love with when he was 20 years old would be the person at that table whichever bond villain the actual actor who played that guy in the movie would be there right or at the very least the girl that he had a crush on in eighth grade that said no to him would probably be at that table i don't know i don't want to criticize the man for his nameless and faceless fantasies but it feels like there would be a little more reality in [SPEAKER_02]: not a criticism at all of the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like if they had endless budget, it would be that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, you asked for a voicemail, so feel free to publicly regret it in the end.

[SPEAKER_02]: So much stealing pack there.

[SPEAKER_09]: So there's a lot like I wish I was taking notes.

[SPEAKER_10]: Um, can I just dive in?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, please.

[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, listeners for context, Mark and I have a long, we've known each other for many, many, many years prior to hosting the podcast.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have a very strong friendship.

[SPEAKER_09]: And we have the ability to challenge each other in a way that's healthy and respectful.

[SPEAKER_09]: I respect Mark in his opinions a lot.

[SPEAKER_10]: And this is what I'm going to say, and now that I've practiced it, the man's explaining his off the charts here, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: So when we talk about, well, this is why it was a perfect example of microaggressions.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I think even borderline aggression, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's our bit, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that there's so much, there's so much, it's a fact that just like we're saying, Carol can be both things.

[SPEAKER_09]: She can be like nuanced and sensitive and vulnerable and very abrasive.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think Diabody can also be empathetic and kind and really caring and be exploiting the situation.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm really stumbling on like faceless sexual fantasies.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like I don't think that that's his motivation.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that sexual motivation only goes so far, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that there's more to him than that.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that it minimizes him as a character.

[SPEAKER_09]: See, that's all he's after.

[SPEAKER_09]: I do agree with the point that it would be, [SPEAKER_09]: Famous people like the famous individuals, but they probably just don't have the budget for yeah Yeah, I know Mark probably like Phoebe Cates or something like I don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: Is that a person?

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know Okay, well, they'll let us know They will So I don't know a lot to to think about from Mark what are some thoughts that you have on that voice mail [SPEAKER_06]: Well, first of all, fish are different from Trestro Mammoth.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're stuck on that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I forgot about that part.

[SPEAKER_10]: That was the ex-position of the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's a good thing that Polar Bear livers aren't generally available for good reason.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm also wondering how Mark has that information.

[SPEAKER_06]: Strange, factoid information, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: And I just loved the opening, like, oh, hi, David, you know, that whole sort of, and it really got me into the thinking about, [SPEAKER_06]: Carol in this episode, when we can talk about it more later, but when she's in the gas station, and she's just like, do better.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you know, she doesn't even say a location.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's just like, turn on pump number one.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, how do you know, like, where are you?

[SPEAKER_06]: How do you know?

[SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, oh, and this is something I want to say before about Listus, tinfoil hat there, he's sorry, tinfoil.

[SPEAKER_06]: That, yeah, they're definitely using drones.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, they're like, well, first of all, I kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, so they're, they're, it's interesting how they're, how they're doing it, but very passive aggressively.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, we're monitoring you, but we're not telling you how or why.

[SPEAKER_06]: And if you need something, you know, do this.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: The idea, [SPEAKER_06]: though of how Carol is is she being passive aggressive?

[SPEAKER_06]: And what is passive aggressivity?

[SPEAKER_06]: And you know, the how you manipulate people through this type of behavior.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's one of the reasons why the show is so affecting is, [SPEAKER_06]: because it's putting all of that kind of behavior front and center to us in a very compelling format, in a very compelling visually and the way that the show is written and is presenting these topics to us.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think it's really interesting to see Carol as this three-dimensional.

[SPEAKER_06]: figure and all of the characters as three-dimensional people and not simple cutout constructs that we often have in dramatic representations and television and movie shows.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think in the scene with the Gatorade and thrilled the first half of this episode when we see Carol kind of leaning in, I'm not sure if she's being passive or aggressive, I interpret it as she's trying on what D-Bodies doing.

[SPEAKER_09]: She's trying to see like, okay, like, [SPEAKER_09]: He seems happy or at least contend.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm in this world, like, let's see if I can know what I can do, like maybe it's not so bad.

[SPEAKER_09]: But we do see the progression that you know, she's trying it on, but it's still not something's not right about it for her.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: So when she's calling the [SPEAKER_09]: I read that is just trying to see how far she can push them, and it's just like a weird way to test it over Gatoray, like Diabottie's testing in bigger ways.

[SPEAKER_09]: And she's like, let's just see if I can command a Gatoray, which I can understand.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Jean, one of our co-hosts for the Laura Hounds, made this comment on the discord, which I thought was really insightful.

[SPEAKER_06]: When [SPEAKER_06]: That is one of the signals of her starting to shift.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's no longer the sheriff in town going to fix this.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm actually going to allow myself a pleasure of driving a more expensive car.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe I will sit in first class if I fly again.

[SPEAKER_06]: All of these little things not only indicators of her, [SPEAKER_06]: shift psychologically, ultimately needing, you know, meeting society again, like needing to be in community with other human beings.

[SPEAKER_09]: Almost like a commitment to that, you know, and I think that the just married balloons on the car she chooses are a metaphor for her, like commitment to this new lifestyle or this approach to being.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_09]: That might be a stretch, but no, I think it's all, it's all a threat.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, it's I'm totally decoding that as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: That kind of said, this is her shifting going to get the jargeo, keep painting all of these kinds of things are these markers of moving on.

[SPEAKER_06]: We have to definitely address the just married thing later, but we'll save that for that.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're saving so much for later.

[SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: Let's get to it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the last thing I wanted to touch on before we take another break and then get into the scene by scene is the episode title, the gap.

[SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, there's the superficial reading, superficial being on surface level, not shallow, of the daring gap, where Manusos is crossing.

[SPEAKER_06]: but this idea of social and psychological gaps, not only the gap between Carol and Manusos, in terms of, she gets to this point of empty, where it's all of these superficial pursuits, against superficial, [SPEAKER_06]: pursuing these pleasures.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to have this painting.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to go to this spa.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to, you know, eat this meal, she ultimately comes up empty out of that, where the new source is full.

[SPEAKER_06]: He has purpose.

[SPEAKER_06]: He is drive.

[SPEAKER_06]: He has a goal to rectid behavior.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he's full in a way.

[SPEAKER_06]: And they talk about this on the official pod about their differences.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so to me that's a gap, a gap between these two characters.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's the gap of sociology and the psychology of being an individual within communities.

[SPEAKER_06]: We, right, that's a huge behavioral driver for us as humans is, yeah, we can sit here, we can be in each other's company, but ultimately I'm still just alone in my head.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: and the gap between you and me be it virtual as it is in this very moment between us right now recording and to all of our listeners there's a gap.

[SPEAKER_06]: But then that is the thing that we crave the most and we see that at the end that closing of that gap of us meeting people.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, on both, I was affected by that hug.

[SPEAKER_06]: At the end, it was so potent, it's so powerful.

[SPEAKER_09]: And even Minuso's just raising his hand to the sky and maybe he's shielding his eye from the light, like maybe or maybe he was finally surrendering.

[SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: I read it as a surrender.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, he was going to have at a point that he had to.

[SPEAKER_09]: So it's really fascinating, these metaphors that exist in the show, the episode title of The Gap.

[SPEAKER_09]: I, I'll have to say is I feel like a very intelligent person, humbly, but I never really knew about the daring gap until I researched it for this.

[SPEAKER_09]: I never like understood what that was.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then we were watching the show me and my husband and he's like, what, what's the daring gap?

[SPEAKER_09]: And I was like, well, didn't you know, like, how do you not know?

[SPEAKER_08]: you out.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's like, wow, that's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know a lot of stuff about geography.

[SPEAKER_09]: I was like, yeah, I know.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of a passive aggressive.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, you're ready to go.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you made a good choice, you know, thanks for choosing me.

[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I choose me.

[SPEAKER_10]: Good luck now if you ever on Jeopardy and have a question about the daring gap.

[SPEAKER_10]: Like, you'll know it's impossible.

[SPEAKER_09]: But, okay, we have to keep marching forward.

[SPEAKER_06]: Forging forward.

[SPEAKER_06]: Forging forward.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's take a little break, and then we will run through the scene by scene.

[SPEAKER_07]: Thanks.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we are back.

[SPEAKER_06]: You ready for the scene by scene?

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to take it from here.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm ready.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're following episode seven, the gap.

[SPEAKER_09]: Run time is a 46 minutes directed by Adam Bernstein and written by Jen Carroll.

[SPEAKER_09]: Fun fact.

[SPEAKER_09]: Vince Gilgain likes who he likes.

[SPEAKER_09]: He loves his crew.

[SPEAKER_09]: Adam Bernstein has directed episodes of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.

[SPEAKER_09]: And Jen Carroll has worked on the same shows plus El Camino, a Breaking Bad movie.

[SPEAKER_09]: Jen Carroll apparently also starred out as Vince Gilligan's assistant, and this is her first credited script.

[SPEAKER_06]: Isn't that cool?

[SPEAKER_06]: I love the fact that they are bringing people, they're new actors, crew, yeah, they have this, they're, they're crew, but then that they are thinking about, oh, you're pretty good at this.

[SPEAKER_06]: Do you want to try?

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, let's go.

[SPEAKER_06]: Here, let's, let's, let's, let's, you know, move you along and that she went from, [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if she was a personal assistant or if she was a program, you know, I don't know what, but starting from not a scriptwriter to being a first, you know, it's amazing.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think that in productions like this trust is hugely important and keeping a close circle is hugely important.

[SPEAKER_09]: So having people that you work with that one, you can just trust with knowing that's content and eliminating like spoilers or things breaking out, but also [SPEAKER_09]: It must feel so good for Vince Gilligan to like see Jen Carroll's group be launched and it's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_09]: And for this to be her first credit is script.

[SPEAKER_09]: There's hardly any dialogue.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's all it's a novel.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, so the writing is just I would love to read the script and see how a literative she gets in describing these spaces.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I just am really interested in the process of writing a script like this that isn't dialogue heavy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Great, right?

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's the same at least.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then you think about what the actors are doing and what the camera is doing, it's incredible.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a incredible production.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_09]: Mocene one, carols on her way back from Las Vegas and stops at a gas station.

[SPEAKER_09]: From inside the store, she calls the joint demanding power to brew stored to pump one.

[SPEAKER_09]: She again calls an orders an ice cold gatorade which arrives to be a drone.

[SPEAKER_09]: She calls back to the plane.

[SPEAKER_09]: It wasn't cold and proceeds to fill her trunk with fireworks, but not just her trunk, her whole car, with fireworks.

[SPEAKER_09]: Carol returned to the road, seeing Ariams at the end of the world as we know it.

[SPEAKER_09]: we've talked a lot about the season unpacked as far as like my girl aggressions go and how fire we can push carols demands.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was really nice for me to see her trying to embrace the situation.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: And race you aren't we say all the time her acting is unbelievable, but you can tell that she's not okay embracing the situation.

[SPEAKER_09]: She's [SPEAKER_09]: It was just so apparent in her acting that she was pretending.

[SPEAKER_09]: She was like, let me pretend to scratch a scratch, take it and like see if I can demand a new gatorade.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like I don't think those things are really important to the character.

[SPEAKER_09]: I just think she was trying to...

[SPEAKER_09]: play the part of someone who those things were important to.

[SPEAKER_06]: If that's a sad one $10,000.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yay.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yay me.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yay me.

[SPEAKER_09]: I've said previously I thought it was really interesting that in the community at the store, not everything was taken.

[SPEAKER_09]: They left some things and that seems very purposeful to me that they left things behind when sprouts was completely emptied.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Why would they have left cigarettes and scratch tickets and fireworks?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, yeah, and I read that entirely different.

[SPEAKER_06]: As in, those things aren't like sustaining things.

[SPEAKER_06]: They took things that because they can't.

[SPEAKER_06]: grow food or harvest food from animals, process food from animals, they need every calorie available.

[SPEAKER_06]: That is not, you know, that's just lying.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like windfall, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: That's just windfall.

[SPEAKER_06]: So they took it and cigarettes are harmful and fireworks aren't useful for their entertainment.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're not.

[SPEAKER_06]: But providing.

[SPEAKER_09]: No, but you could repurpose them like you could repurpose tobacco.

[SPEAKER_09]: to, I don't know, for something.

[SPEAKER_09]: We could repurpose a filters for something.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's a lot of cigarettes in that store, by the way.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I was like, that was like a wall.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was the old days of cigarette smoking.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh my gosh, cigarettes in.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was a huge amount.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, like $20 a pack, get out of here.

[SPEAKER_09]: Where I live anyway.

[SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, I was curious of what they left behind.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it seemed like, [SPEAKER_09]: They're trying to kill her.

[SPEAKER_09]: And we can't kill her, but she can't kill herself.

[SPEAKER_09]: I know that it's kind of an activating statement, but she will see what happens this episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: There's ideation.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Her singing was great throughout this whole episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: What else do we have about the scene do you have any any other thoughts quick note about locations and location shooting The official pod they talk a whole bunch about how they shot parts of this in Spain and how they shot parts of this old and I'm not forgetting the name of the state I can't I think it was new Mexico, but it might be somewhere in the southwest where they were and then this [SPEAKER_06]: Native American Pueblo, and they talk about the process of permissions of shooting and doing all the stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: So if you want more information about that, I don't want to be a official pod regurgator, but there's a ton of information about all of that stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: Because some of this, when we watch the show, we don't always know where we are geographically.

[SPEAKER_06]: And they shot in blocks.

[SPEAKER_06]: So when they were in Spain, they shot out of order and blocks.

[SPEAKER_06]: So to put that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Every time I see a drone, I get a little bit of that comic energy from the garbage drone.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just so ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just like very ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like where did that get, where did it come from?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, right, how long did it take to get there, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, where was the nearest coldest gaterade?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's crazy.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's crazy.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're in the middle of the desert.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's wild.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that's the bit, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: Like that's why it's funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's same with a lot of people are like, tell me, why doesn't she tell them to cut the voicemail short?

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't disagree, and I love seeing Racy horn figure out how to spend her time while waiting for the voicemail plus it's to continue playing.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is a hilarious running gag.

[SPEAKER_09]: Is it getting old for you?

[SPEAKER_09]: The voice mail.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, because I know what I'm waiting for the other side.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm waiting for Carol to see what's going on.

[SPEAKER_06]: What she does, how she reacts to it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I say, do it going into the speaker phone mode, like turning it into the hands-free thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: Disgratch ticket thing, great.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then the little $10,000.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then, you know, what do you do?

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: What does it matter?

[SPEAKER_06]: $10,000.

[SPEAKER_06]: You won.

[SPEAKER_06]: You want a pre- it's like, it's such great commentary and it's such great comedy.

[SPEAKER_06]: So just seeing her constantly dealing with that, I love it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that's one of the reasons why this is one of my favorite shows of the year.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, hands down.

[SPEAKER_06]: a little shout out to the song, Tarzan Boy, maybe I'll slip in a, oh no, in post.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was what was playing in the music on the background, so you'll hear it when you know it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then I found it really interesting that when she was singing, it's the end of the world, as we know it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I feel, and they cut off the work fine.

[SPEAKER_06]: You cut the scene early before she finished the line.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I thought that was really interesting is just a way to highlight her internal state and to leave us like, oh, how is she feeling?

[SPEAKER_06]: What is going on?

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, she's a little red crumb.

[SPEAKER_09]: She's trying really hard to feel fine.

[SPEAKER_09]: She's really, and you can see her, the mask is on pretty tight right now, but we do see it come off later in this episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: Some feedback agreeing with you from Wandering Not Lost via Discord.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think I know why Carol just listened to the long voicemails.

[SPEAKER_09]: like what the FLs are you going to do?

[SPEAKER_09]: Sorry, I can't go nowhere swear.

[SPEAKER_09]: Why I appreciate your discourse?

[SPEAKER_09]: What's the rush?

[SPEAKER_09]: Just do other things while you're listening to music.

[SPEAKER_09]: Do the dishes when some money lights up fireworks.

[SPEAKER_09]: Carol has nothing but time.

[SPEAKER_09]: So you're in good company with your opinion on that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want to also flag the construction of this episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: This very dialogue minimal episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: The foreshadowing.

[SPEAKER_06]: The internal episode foreshadowing is incredible in this, the, you know, that she's looking at fireworks.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then we see her stuffed the car full.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then later that becomes a really, really important thing overall, you know, the little firework and then to the big fireworks.

[SPEAKER_06]: with Benusos, like there's a initial rock stumble, and then there's the fateful rock stumble, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: So they're doing all these little things to prep us for about to what's about to come, and that's just masterful storytelling.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like it really helps build the tension.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have a we're moving on to some George O'Keefe stuff which I think is in the next scene, but we have a voice mail to listen to.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's about that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Is it in the other scene?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, let me read the scene next the description and then we'll listen to the voice mail.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, it is.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_06]: I put it in the wrong place.

[SPEAKER_06]: My bad.

[SPEAKER_09]: So now we're a scene two starts at the 12 day mark and features a number of activities.

[SPEAKER_09]: We get a little montage of Carol living her best life.

[SPEAKER_09]: She sets off fireworks in front of the house.

[SPEAKER_09]: She gals.

[SPEAKER_09]: She visits a hot spring spa and visits the George O.

Pete museum having like nice little days for herself.

[SPEAKER_09]: In the museum, there's moments that she looks at a painting on a wall and she's like, huh, [SPEAKER_09]: I could probably just take this right and then she turns around and she does take a painting home with her and replaces a poster of that same painting that she has in her house with the original and she loved.

[SPEAKER_09]: She has the joint prepared several mirrors for her to rest her on.

[SPEAKER_09]: uh it's a restaurant that her and Helen went to celebrate their anniversary.

[SPEAKER_09]: She wears like an awesome dress and she's all dolled up and it's like really cool to see this character so glamorous because we don't we haven't yet.

[SPEAKER_09]: Generally they're utilitarian and like covered in blood sometimes.

[SPEAKER_09]: Each plate of food is a meal that she's eaten before the world changed her mood.

[SPEAKER_09]: She gets kind of sad.

[SPEAKER_09]: I feel like she's lonely, it's quiet, you know, she misses Helen, I think, and then she goes to the player piano and puts on, I will survive by Gloria Gainer, which is fitting.

[SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, as I'm content about, let's talk about Georgia O'Keefe.

[SPEAKER_09]: uh we have uh and then we can get into our thoughts on the scene.

[SPEAKER_09]: What do you think?

[SPEAKER_06]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that sounds good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh here's the voice mail from Benama.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is Benama and I need to throw some red string up on my conspiracy board based on the Georgia O'Keefe painting Beladana.

[SPEAKER_00]: The painting is of a poisonous plant.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it also has medicinal aspects related to poison, there's a Shakespeare connection that's probably the poison that Romeo and Juliet used that killed them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in the painting, there is one flower revealed and one...

[SPEAKER_00]: Hidden all these things must mean something and I'm still investigating all right, but I will report back if I learn anything Yes, Ben, I'm gonna we need a full report.

[SPEAKER_09]: Did they report back?

[SPEAKER_06]: No, yes, it's just came in this morning.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was a really interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm thinking You know a poisonous plant, but also has some additional benefits me just discuss briefly [SPEAKER_09]: the spiky trees, how some people think that their poison is like a devil's plant, that's my word.

[SPEAKER_09]: and other people more locally say that they're a blessing and they help the commute.

[SPEAKER_09]: They help so are cervical.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I think there's a metaphor here.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have some other research about the Belladonna that's commonly known as deadly night shade.

[SPEAKER_09]: Definitely what was represented in Rome, we weren't truly at.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's one of the most toxic plants in the eastern hemisphere.

[SPEAKER_09]: In jest and can cause delirium hallucinations and death.

[SPEAKER_09]: during the Renaissance women use drops of pillage on an extracted dilate their pupils, which was considered attractive and seductive, probably just because they were tripping on it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right?

[SPEAKER_09]: We'll finish the...

Oh, gosh, physiologically dilated pupils, simulate the look of sexual arousal or intense, emotional openness.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why those renaissance folks were wild.

[SPEAKER_05]: They were wild, they were like, yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're getting to it.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were getting busy.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's really fascinating.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think, Benamina, we need a full report from you.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says that his and his wife's, one of their favorite artists, and he's going to maybe do some more research on it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's interesting there's two flowers there like he mentions one's kind of hidden and yeah, there's a whole bunch there.

[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I can't wait to hear more so so Philosin with what you what you learned absolutely yes, we we need to know like we is the plurbs We need your download however they can be like we're gonna deputize you, but yeah [SPEAKER_06]: I really wanted to see from the helicopter descending, like some kid, you know, in a fast food restaurant.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like they just, it was the nearest person.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's like, oh, no, no, how to do a helicopter rescue.

[SPEAKER_10]: The nearest individual that had fatigue on.

[SPEAKER_09]: So we have more from, let's go back to now, she's at the restaurant.

[SPEAKER_09]: We wanted to talk about the song, choice.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like some nods.

[SPEAKER_06]: Some other, yeah, no, it's real quick on the needle drop.

[SPEAKER_06]: I will survive Gloria Gainor, like you mentioned.

[SPEAKER_06]: Dino Fécor, I don't know if I'm pronouncing that person's last name, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Was the song writer and was fired from Motown.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so this song was born out of this fact, [SPEAKER_06]: that Dino was like, ah, I, this is this sucks, but I'm going to ultimately be okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it was a B side that ultimately was re-released as an A side because Gloria Gainor was like, yo, this song, you guys, you, this is a hook on this thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the record company was like, no, no, no, no B side.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then later that like Holy smokes A side.

[SPEAKER_06]: At first I was afraid, I was petrified thinking I couldn't live without you by my side.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I came out of the disco movement, disco era, right at the cusp of the HIV AIDS epidemic and it's been really adopted at that time, was really adopted by the LGBTQ community as an anthem.

[SPEAKER_06]: For a lot of things not only for suppression of their identities as well as as a anthem in the face of a terrible pandemic that was that afflicted millions of people so I think it's interesting like the question is is like oh, what does this say about Carol and what does this say about what she's facing.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't think it's, um, we don't have to, that go deep in it.

[SPEAKER_10]: It's pretty surface pretty, pretty surface at first I was afraid I was petrified thinking how I couldn't live without you by my side.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, but she moved on and she is learning.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: How to get along, you know, um, and she's trying, and it's, she's trying really hard to [SPEAKER_09]: the loss and the grief and the struggle with her in the scene.

[SPEAKER_09]: That she's really trying to put her costume on, put her like best self-forward and take yourself, you know, get away from the weird takeout and take yourself out for a nice meal, but it's loaded in memories and it's loaded in trauma.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's sad.

[SPEAKER_09]: In her.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was really struck both at the spa and at the restaurant [SPEAKER_06]: how boring it is when there's no other people around.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, even if they're strangers, even if I'm going there alone, how just kind of empty that experience is because there's not that buzz and just that social energy that's around us, the way our brain is reacting to the physical presence of other human beings nearby.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think I would last, I think I could last a while, being completely alone.

[SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, I'm also finishing my semester and I've been around people and been performing in front of class.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think of teaching as performing.

[SPEAKER_09]: I've been like being, I pretend to be an extrovert when I'm a teacher and I'm a huge introvert in real life.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I think that my introverted self, [SPEAKER_09]: could use a day alone in hot springs, but I don't know about a week a month.

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what, I like eating a low-knit restaurants, but I don't think I can, yeah, to be completely alone or alone.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I think that's an interesting distinction, you know, going, yeah, that's fine, but then nobody around.

[SPEAKER_09]: Nobody around.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's creepy, but then you can feel alone, you can feel lonely in a crowded room.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, too.

[SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think Carol might be the type to feel lonely in a crowded room.

[SPEAKER_09]: But I think companionship matters, right?

[SPEAKER_08]: How does that?

[SPEAKER_09]: It's a lot, I mean, that's the whole premise of the show, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, is togetherness and being alone.

[SPEAKER_09]: There's a lot of metaphor there.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh gosh, it's too much.

[SPEAKER_09]: The show's too much.

[SPEAKER_06]: It needs very effective, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: I want, let's talk about the, well, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_09]: Do you have anything else to add about the restaurant scene or the player piano or anything?

[SPEAKER_06]: I, I found it hilarious that she put the shotgun in with the golf clubs.

[SPEAKER_06]: Same.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was just wagged.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was really questioning myself about the blue.

[SPEAKER_06]: I got all fixated on the balloons with those balloons last 12 days.

[SPEAKER_09]: They absolutely would last.

[SPEAKER_09]: Mylar balloons last so long.

[SPEAKER_09]: Do you like it?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: they were.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow, okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: Especially in like a warm temperature probably in a colder temperature they'd probably deflate but a warmer temperature they'd last long because I got in troubles during the last of this coverage where there were some cassette tapes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, no way would those last and they came for me because I was just like, maybe I'm the worst.

[SPEAKER_09]: Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm just like assuming that I'm right and mansplaining to you about balloons.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I hope they're not ballooning.

[SPEAKER_10]: If you have any ballooning experience right in, we don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: The other thing that I really was struck by was when she turned and saw the Belladonna painting.

[SPEAKER_06]: I read that I decoded that as she was on a mission to get that painting.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then when she saw it, she was like, there you are, my old friend, you're now my, I didn't think of it that way.

[SPEAKER_09]: I thought she was just at the museum just to have a nice day for herself.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then she didn't know she wanted that initially, but then when she saw it, it clicked because she did have that as a poster on her wall right so she replaces the belled on a poster with a, you know, like a poster that you buy and the gift shop of the museum and here's this painting.

[SPEAKER_06]: I thought she locked in on it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, well, the acting was just phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_09]: acting was great.

[SPEAKER_09]: I thought she saw the first painting when she had the instinct that like, oh, I could just take this.

[SPEAKER_09]: I can just have that.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then she thinks, like, maybe not this one, and that she turns and sees her painting.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then she has that there you are, smile.

[SPEAKER_06]: She locked in, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: She was like, mine.

[SPEAKER_09]: I would do it.

[SPEAKER_09]: I would do it.

[SPEAKER_09]: I feel so bad.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, I'd be touching the, like, because you're not supposed to do it with museums.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're not supposed to like touch.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, take the tape for sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_09]: I can't believe that she took it off the wall so easily, those things are usually really fastened.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then I can't say that as an expert, I have a studio art degree, I worked in galleries for a long time.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you know about balloon, mylar balloons.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I did work in flower shop where we had lots of mylar balloons.

[SPEAKER_06]: So you're the expert, perfect.

[SPEAKER_09]: I have an expert on a lot of things, guys.

[UNKNOWN]: Terry.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean now newly intercontinental geography.

[SPEAKER_09]: Other things that happened in the scene she just go home when she lights up some fireworks, very playful, starts howling at the wolves.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have some discord feedback from Nars.

[SPEAKER_09]: It says when Cara was howling at the wolves, her howls kind of morphed into a human scream.

[SPEAKER_09]: Before that, the wolves were kind of in dialogue with her, which is like, she's wild and she's a wolf too.

[SPEAKER_09]: But then when it became a human scream, the wolves stopped responding, they'll go.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were like, new.

[SPEAKER_10]: Like maybe she crazed.

[SPEAKER_10]: He's actually totally ghosted.

[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, like nothings.

[SPEAKER_06]: We got some more, we got some carry-in to eat down the road.

[SPEAKER_06]: We gotta go, bye.

[SPEAKER_06]: So that brings us out of this carol scene and we're going to see what our buddy Amnus is doing and one thing to add really quick on that on the on the how all is First she was afraid and then she wasn't yeah, and then she embraced it and then she went really far so it was the I will survive song.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that plays doubly here Well, I was going to say you really blew it first she was afraid she's a petrified by the petrified [SPEAKER_06]: So it's just the, you know, and whether these things are intentional or not in the, from the script writers and the writing writers room to ultimate production, that's when you know a show is art, elevating to art when these things just start spontaneously, connecting with each other.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: So love it.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right, well let's take another quick break.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then when we come back, we will pick up with the scene by scene.

[SPEAKER_07]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_06]: And we're back and we're going to join Manusos on his journey.

[SPEAKER_09]: Thank gosh, I am obsessed with him.

[SPEAKER_09]: Seeing three Manusos is Manusos, excuse me, is out of gas and walking along a road carrying an empty gas can.

[SPEAKER_09]: A person stops and tries to get him to hydrate or at least take a rest at an upcoming viewpoint.

[SPEAKER_09]: Manusos refuses any help and is told to wave at the sky if he needs anything.

[SPEAKER_09]: When the road literally ends, a group of people appear to warm and so about the dangers of the daring gap, they beg him not to go further, saying they can get him in his car to Carol Sturka in New Mexico.

[SPEAKER_09]: Minnesota responds that nothing they could give him is theirs to give, and he sets the car on fire.

[SPEAKER_09]: Minnesota makes his way through the gap.

[SPEAKER_09]: He impails himself on a chunk of palm, and later uses the burning knife to categorize the wounds on his back.

[SPEAKER_09]: It becomes weaker and weaker and finally collapses a helicopter appears overhead and a rescuer begins to descend.

[SPEAKER_09]: Now, that is a very brief summary of a very long, very beautiful montage of his travel.

[SPEAKER_09]: It went on like a little bit too long for me.

[SPEAKER_09]: Really?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, a little bit, but I, I need this show is teaching me to slow down.

[SPEAKER_09]: Because I want it.

[SPEAKER_09]: I want to keep going.

[SPEAKER_09]: I want like we know what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_09]: You don't need to keep showing us the line on the map.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like we got it.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're traveling.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love that the line on the map was the same as the grease pencil that he was holding in his hand.

[SPEAKER_09]: For sure, there was a lot of great action details there.

[SPEAKER_09]: And just that it was just the whole this whole montage was just visually beautiful.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, you know, and I know that we're supporting local economies and I know that we're the money for this show is going for good.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's what I'm choosing, but I also know that [SPEAKER_09]: as the amount of money it costs to shoot this montage is more money than I'll probably make in my life.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that was kind of hard.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I had a lot to mediate internally with this episode specifically without just beautiful the locations were and how [SPEAKER_09]: hard, it must have been to shoot in such remote locations.

[SPEAKER_09]: I had to really surrender a lot of that to enjoy it, but I didn't enjoy it very, very much.

[SPEAKER_09]: So during this montage, she's practicing English the whole time.

[SPEAKER_09]: He, which is really endearing.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's getting quite good.

[SPEAKER_06]: We got Princess Bride vibes towards the end there.

[SPEAKER_09]: I know.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was like his mantra, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: Just to survive, great soundtrack happening in the background.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's the song, so.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, by Hermano's Gutierrez, I don't know this artist, but apparently the name of the song is Esparanza, and Esparanza means hope.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, buddy.

[SPEAKER_09]: I love him so much.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's like leaving money for the gas he takes.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's so endearing and so counter to what he says to this group of plurbs, when they try to convince him to not go on.

[SPEAKER_09]: They're like, we can help you.

[SPEAKER_09]: We can get you there.

[SPEAKER_09]: And he says nothing on this planet is yours.

[SPEAKER_09]: You can't give me anything because all that you have is stolen.

[SPEAKER_09]: You don't belong here.

[SPEAKER_09]: and then he like, such a badass.

[SPEAKER_09]: He uses like gas to set his car on fire.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think he does, he, there was a question before like, does he know what's up with them?

[SPEAKER_09]: Like does he think that they have a virus?

[SPEAKER_09]: Does he know that their aliens?

[SPEAKER_09]: And this line to me says like, he does know that you don't belong here, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: That was really telling to me.

[SPEAKER_09]: the fact that he doesn't want to take anything that isn't his, um, he has a really strong moral compass.

[SPEAKER_09]: He has won a O when you want anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I can appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_09]: I just really like I just really like that.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think it's really, really, really, really endearing.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that's different.

[SPEAKER_06]: That that's an interesting comment because I think, okay, he's a guy who's wanting to be self-sufficient.

[SPEAKER_06]: He repairs things.

[SPEAKER_06]: He all of this.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yet he, if assuming that whether he owns or manages the self storage locker, or he's providing a service to other people.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's this tension that this whole show is constantly living in is the tension between us as an individual and the collective, the rest of society.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that you can't, Carol can't live alone, you know, she, she needs garbage pick up.

[SPEAKER_06]: She needs food in the, in the, in the, in the store, even just at sort of, you know, Madelo's hierarchy, right, just basic thing on up, that the tension of the individual and society and the relative need that we have to be ourselves, but yet we depend on other people.

[SPEAKER_09]: Sorry to talk over you, and the juxtaposition of her requesting a tepid nilla, an ice cold that gatorade and being kind of being disappointed that it wasn't cold enough to him like collecting rainwater from tin cans such a good point.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like when you talk about like needs versus wants and it's just an interesting juxtaposition that I continue to be very eager and impatient to get these two characters together.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot of chatter about what's going to happen when they get together.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now that we see Carol embracing the the plurbs and Manuso still rejecting them.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, does she still, oh, but we don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we're 40, you know, where we jumped ahead 40 days.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that maybe we'll see that in the next episode, what happens to him after they rescue him?

[SPEAKER_06]: He's in a need of long recovery.

[SPEAKER_09]: He is.

[SPEAKER_09]: And if he is as religious as [SPEAKER_09]: We're indicating or getting kind of like we're being pointed in the direction that he's a very religious person He's sleeping in churches.

[SPEAKER_09]: He has icon the religious iconography throughout.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Maybe he'll turn to see them as his savior and maybe he'll be the first one to flip and join them.

[SPEAKER_06]: did you solve the show?

[SPEAKER_09]: Did I do it?

[SPEAKER_09]: Did I do it?

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you import it?

[SPEAKER_09]: I went it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's a, what do we call it here?

[SPEAKER_09]: That's a tinfoil hat there.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but like I can see the imagery of him in a reaching up towards the light of the helicopter.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, there's metaphor there.

[SPEAKER_09]: Well, um, so maybe they're both having a kind of coming of age at the same time.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Mm.

[SPEAKER_06]: A couple of things, they're really great in the official pod.

[SPEAKER_06]: They talk about the driver who comes up along on the truck alongside of him.

[SPEAKER_06]: Apparently he's a stunt driver.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that's just who that dude is.

[SPEAKER_06]: What we see on screen is that dude.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's how he is in his daily life.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's so perfect.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he's like, there's a great viewpoint up ahead.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just love that they are able to translate the [SPEAKER_06]: the joint's affect across all of these different, I mean, the background actors are doing just such a great job of inhabiting the pluralist mindset and tonality and language, obviously.

[SPEAKER_06]: the script, but the fact that all of these different people from all over the world can inhabit this mindset is so brilliant.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_06]: So a quick note on the the car, that is a mg is the manufacturer and that particular model we see the name of it is a midget.

[SPEAKER_06]: and the midget is to the MG as the 914 was to Porsche.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is the low budget lightweight entry for a performance sports car.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're they're beloved and fun to drive and they actually burned a real car.

[SPEAKER_06]: That might have seen so, and then goes into this, there is so much digital process, the way that they composite it, the coastal scenes, the way that they composite it.

[SPEAKER_06]: The grenade, the fireworks later, they do this really innovative thing where certain parts are practical effects, certain the fuses of the fireworks were real, but they used LED lights to simulate part of the explosion.

[SPEAKER_06]: they use some CGI stuff for the car driving on the, I believe that's what they did on the thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, but in this case, they actually burned the car.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was like an old junk car, or something, and they were like, nope, we can burn it.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, very cool, but that interesting, back to Manusos, and his psychological framework that we're looking at him is, [SPEAKER_06]: This is a beloved car.

[SPEAKER_06]: El Fritz, this car, he has named it.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is a meaningful to him.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he's like, FU, you're not gonna take it, you know, I will burn this car before I allow you.

[SPEAKER_09]: You can't have it, you know.

[SPEAKER_06]: Whoa, that was intense.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's intense.

[SPEAKER_09]: He's intense.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm obsessed.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm obsessed with him.

[SPEAKER_09]: I got really nervous.

[SPEAKER_09]: you know, well, one more thing on the montage, we see him walking.

[SPEAKER_09]: We see like the the plurbs in action and this was like really the first time besides the hospital that we see them working together just to do to do their chores and stuff just to do their stuff.

[UNKNOWN]: So [SPEAKER_09]: like where are they going?

[SPEAKER_09]: What are they doing?

[SPEAKER_09]: It's weirdly quiet.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's just a really interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: I want to see more of forever.

[SPEAKER_09]: I want to see more of the plurps.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like where are they?

[SPEAKER_06]: It was interesting when he was driving up that little street.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were all walking the other direction in one of the scene.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a laundry scene, but then there's the scene where he's driving to the little town.

[SPEAKER_06]: And they're all carrying baskets of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, where are they going?

[SPEAKER_06]: What are they doing?

[SPEAKER_06]: What are they doing?

[SPEAKER_06]: And if you think about 8 billion people around the world from little villages in many different places all around, I was just, I caught myself in an internal bias because I was going to say far-flung places.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it's far-flung from me.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's for them.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's where they are.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're like, what do you mean far-flung?

[SPEAKER_06]: I am where I am.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's my place.

[SPEAKER_09]: the main characters and narrators of our own story and we're unreliable narrators at best.

[SPEAKER_06]: I understand.

[SPEAKER_06]: But if we think about just the global reach of where human beings reside and all of them connected from the biggest cities to the smallest villages, it's just really in that moment, [SPEAKER_06]: You know seeing these people doing their laundry in this little pipe of a village, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_09]: It makes me, I need to learn more about like, solipsism and philosophy, and it's the idea that where all these individuals that have backstory have nuance are all main characters of our own story, but there's so many of us.

[SPEAKER_09]: So, if anyone out there in our listenership, [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe that's not a word.

[SPEAKER_09]: If anyone out there listening is like maybe we have some philosophers, folks with PhDs in philosophy or just experience in that field can leave us voicemails about solipsism.

[SPEAKER_09]: I like it.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'd love to learn more about that.

[SPEAKER_06]: It epistemology.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm very into it.

[SPEAKER_09]: So [SPEAKER_09]: We are learning more about Manusos here and spending time with him through this drawn-out montage.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, for me, there are people they were like, well, the show, it's like boring me, but when the payoff comes, [SPEAKER_06]: It's paid off, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: We get to, we get to, we learn about, he's, he's fastidious about his hygiene.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's methodical in his planning.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's catching rainwater in these cans.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's, you know, leaving the money, all of this stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we really get this beautifully set montage to learn about him.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think then when we get that first rock stumble, which is a, that pay off, and it'd been hacking at vines, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: And then that rock, when that rock stumble comes, we are so primed for it, and we are so set up for that scene to happen.

[SPEAKER_06]: And check off's gun, like it's not at first, I mean, it all happens in the same act, but it's it's perfectly primed for us.

[SPEAKER_06]: and that he has the psychological control to be able to lift himself off of the plant.

[SPEAKER_10]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then it'll carry on at all.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm so I'd be done.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'd be done after the first rock with a spring day goal.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'd be like, thanks.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'm ready for my ride.

[SPEAKER_10]: Thanks.

[SPEAKER_10]: I wouldn't have liked winter today.

[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_10]: I wouldn't have been not even.

[SPEAKER_10]: And that's giving myself a lot of credit.

[SPEAKER_10]: Like the reality is he lost me at the dog food.

[SPEAKER_10]: Like that was it.

[SPEAKER_06]: like way back there's no way there's no way I'd be like get me air conditioning give me the French toast like it's fine I like they're looking his food though like yeah we don't know if he's immune or not we don't know he's drinking rainwater he's he's collecting food well maybe that's what happens he like gets around them in the hospital and he catches it [SPEAKER_06]: They do say he is immune though, so.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay, well, yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I think the other thing that was important is that he doesn't know that stem cell research is possible and he hasn't declined, you know, he hasn't given his consent.

[SPEAKER_09]: Well, we don't know that he doesn't know that.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're assuming that he doesn't know that.

[SPEAKER_06]: We're assuming a lot about him.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're right because he's keeping his cards pretty close.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think he knows more than we think the fact that he knows that their aliens or my perspective was more, that's pretty telling.

[SPEAKER_06]: Or something different about them, alien about them, yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right, you don't belong here.

[SPEAKER_06]: the the black palm let's talk about that really quick the chunga plant I would love to see the Google statistics the internet search statistics for chunga plant like every chunga plant website and site the pdf page got like slammed it like this is a moment the big chunga is punch right now [SPEAKER_06]: It is the astro-carium, Stan Lee, and come for me, come for me if you got the correct pronunciation.

[SPEAKER_09]: There are Latin scholars.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is a palm tree that exists in Central and South America.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is about, it can grow up to about 66 feet tall, that's 20 meters, and the spikes are up to 8 inches long, 20 centimeters.

[SPEAKER_06]: If you go on the official mod, you can hear the actual placement of those talk up about it and I did a very very quick search today.

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't have a deep time to research it, but this plant.

[SPEAKER_06]: is known as a provider plant.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is a cornerstone for the communities that live in that area.

[SPEAKER_06]: They make these baskets that apparently are watertight.

[SPEAKER_06]: You make it from the leaves in the way you process the leaves and you weave them to baskets that can actually hold water.

[SPEAKER_06]: The fruit is edible and they can use it for a certain sort of all kinds of things.

[SPEAKER_06]: the idea that this for us as we talked before about this is the monster in the jungle versus for the people who know it and respect it and understand it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that understanding is key, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: They they have a context for it.

[SPEAKER_06]: They have [SPEAKER_06]: They have lived with it and experienced it and passed down through culture, how to benefit from this plant, which is merely surviving.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, man, I got these ugly spikes because I don't want to be eaten by other people.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: So unlike the polar bear liver, it is a beneficial plant.

[SPEAKER_09]: We shouldn't demonize the plant.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, we should not.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it is a very real thing and you just, yeah, go, go give those chunga, it's websites and love and go give a quick read.

[SPEAKER_09]: They're scary though.

[SPEAKER_06]: They look scary.

[SPEAKER_09]: They look scary AF.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that's the point.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that moment when he reaches for the vine and you just, you know it, you know exactly what's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's very hitchcocky in in a way.

[SPEAKER_09]: I was like, my heart was pounding.

[SPEAKER_09]: I was like, I can't handle this.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's like, you know what's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_09]: And you're just waiting for it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, obviously that was going to happen.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like they foreshadowed it so much like obviously and when we did, I like was on the edge of my seat and like hiding.

[SPEAKER_09]: My buddy Rocky has similar comments.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have a voice mail from Rocky's him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi everyone, it's Dave aka Rocky's in here and I just wanted to chime in for the latest episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: The gap and I really enjoyed it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know it was a bit slower but still I like how they were showing menu so it's going through the gap and then it's interactions with the joint.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen pretty pretty angry with [SPEAKER_01]: the joint really wanted her you know make them feel bad anyway he could let the things he said and and how he was just blatantly ignoring them you know I like when he had a little mic drop moment you know but talking about how I used to this planet like it's not yours you don't belong here it was interesting how intense he was when he said that he's very like just very dead set against them I'm so [SPEAKER_01]: It seems like you can Carol will get along.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even though Carol seems to be taking the Diabata approach now by golfing and breaking windows and driving her to the world's voice.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, back to Manusos, it's just showing him going through the gap in the one time that got me You know, I guess you can say triggered but just [SPEAKER_01]: on edges when he was like slipping and ready to hit the nails on the tree.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, no, I don't slip and I was like, please just hold on to that branch or whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: When he fell, I'm like, oh, almost could feel it too, but that wasn't as I wasn't sure maybe they were poisoned, but either way, he wasn't in good shape and bad to accept help.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I like tell they were showing his story and how he's getting to Carol.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and now he finally, I didn't even have a choice I guess, but he got, uh, zooming, you got air lift to out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then I, like, skip forward, which was interesting to, to Carol, golfing and breaking a bunch of windows.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, and, and it seems like she's, um, kind of giving into the situation, just accepting it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was interesting when she was doing, you know, the fireworks, and she was willing to let that firework hit her.

[SPEAKER_01]: um, almost like she was giving up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, and then she, you know, wanted, uh, the joy to come back and social came back.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was interesting episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely like the Minusos part of the story.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I'm interested to see what happens next.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll keep this one shorter.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have, I'm looking forward to the last episodes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, well, everyone has a good holiday and stay safe.

[SPEAKER_09]: Great commentary, offering some spoilers for our next scene, but we have more feedback to get through before we move on.

[SPEAKER_09]: Some stuff from the discord that really fortifies my opinion that Manusos is having a, can I say, like, come to Jesus moment, that seems not appropriate, but I'm saying it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, as a short hand speak for psychological realization, yes, a self-actualization or like a religious realization even as well.

[SPEAKER_09]: So wandering not lost says via discord, but that's a great that that [SPEAKER_06]: that wondering not loss discord handle is a perfect title for their commentary.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's in the jungle.

[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think it's like really on brand for them.

[SPEAKER_09]: They say that that was a great episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: Lots of Christ imagery with the new Susan his four days or maybe the Christ imagery is Carol being very alone for 40 days and nights before breaking down.

[SPEAKER_09]: that's interesting too.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure how long I could have last with no human contact, either one or two weeks would be fabulous, a green, a month that would be rough.

[SPEAKER_09]: I also think I get why she just leaves the long voicemail like what the F also you're going to do, what's the rush, and we heard some other comments before about the same thing, just like do something else.

[SPEAKER_09]: So, I agree that there's a lot of religious [SPEAKER_09]: tone here in this minutose arc.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I don't think it's just cultural.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that there's something in the narrative and the outcomes and the payoff of it.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_09]: When we get two episodes left, we'll see.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we have at least a second season because they [SPEAKER_06]: Films already a bunch of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm I really hope we don't have to wait a couple of years for this.

[SPEAKER_09]: I bet that they've filmed it all because they knew going in that they'd have two seasons.

[SPEAKER_09]: That was the contract.

[SPEAKER_06]: Things crossed.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Cincinnati Joe on discord.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's interesting that.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's interesting that by leaving money, Manuso seems to act like the world is still normal, but then he calls the joint invaders.

[SPEAKER_09]: What's the point of leaving money, since it has no meaning anymore?

[SPEAKER_09]: Now he knows there's only a dozen people like him in the entire world, so it's not like he can assume everyone, but the hive is going to get the money.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: that he's leaving money.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think it's guided by a strong moral compass rooted in religion.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that's how he feels.

[SPEAKER_06]: I add a layer on top of that is my decoding, which is that's his [SPEAKER_06]: his, and I said this before, his, um, he's not accepting the situation, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: He may understand the situation, but I refuse to participate in this.

[SPEAKER_06]: I am, I am remaining apart and to the extent that I'm even leaving money, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's just part of his.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like a denial.

[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, but now I'm going to comment on just where I think the news was operates in the hope that he will get it all fixed.

[SPEAKER_09]: He'll save the world.

[SPEAKER_09]: And when it goes back to normal, he would have maintained his morality.

[SPEAKER_09]: He paid for his way.

[SPEAKER_09]: He did not lie, cheat or something.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so that's that spins it even better.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think in a way.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think it is just like a car moth thing.

[SPEAKER_09]: Pause in 20 ads, Carolyn Brace of Zosh at the end of the next scene suggest that maybe she's ready to give up or give in, right, so we'll get to that in a minute.

[SPEAKER_09]: Uh, Cincinnati Joe writes an email.

[SPEAKER_06]: Since it has just been really, really, and really awesome.

[SPEAKER_09]: We love your feedback after the time jump in this episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: What is the state of the other unjoined folks?

[SPEAKER_09]: So we jumped forward in time quite a bit towards the end.

[SPEAKER_09]: Has anyone willingly joined the hive?

[SPEAKER_09]: Has Diabody got tired of living his fantasies yet?

[SPEAKER_09]: I wonder if any of them have been forced to confront that their loved ones who they see have re-deherred not really themselves anymore.

[SPEAKER_09]: Has latched me realize the body of her son isn't actually him anymore.

[SPEAKER_09]: As Carol earlier tried to force latched me to see.

[SPEAKER_09]: He doesn't play, hang out with friends, or change any claim mentally or emotionally.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that's interesting with the kids, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: They may make her or others choose to become joined if when there's like eight, quote, cure, or it could be, or it could cause some of them to despair, possibly even wishing that we're so way to reverse this, to get their loved one back.

[SPEAKER_09]: So maybe in this 40-day time jump that we're seeing as we enter season four, seen four, seen four, season four, imagine.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're seeing that maybe some hearts and minds have changed, just as Carol's changing, maybe others have changed too.

[SPEAKER_09]: So, entering scene four, it's 40 days later, Carol is no longer happy with her solitary life, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: We're seeing a dramatic mood shift, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: If you think about how every human has poles and pull up polarity to them in earlier in this episode, Carol was a higher affect, maybe a little even, oh, I'm not going to say manic, but like active, trying to looking for a rousal, and now we're seeing her rather despondent pretty low.

[SPEAKER_09]: The pendulum has swung, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: She plays chicken with the fireworks aimed at her head.

[SPEAKER_09]: uh, seems pretty checked out.

[SPEAKER_09]: Also seems like she's drinking quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, she, the fireworks aimed at her had misses hurt.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, just misses her and lights a house on fire.

[SPEAKER_09]: Is it her house or is it a neighbor's house?

[SPEAKER_06]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh [SPEAKER_09]: Put the fire out with a garden hole.

[SPEAKER_09]: This is no way.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's impossible.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I think it speaks to her mental state of just like being despondent.

[SPEAKER_09]: She goes through a home improvement store.

[SPEAKER_09]: I really assume she was getting stuff to fix the fire damage.

[SPEAKER_09]: But she comes back with paint.

[SPEAKER_09]: She paint something on the ground that we don't see right away.

[SPEAKER_09]: She goes back and like, [SPEAKER_09]: stairs at the Georgia Oak Youth Painting.

[SPEAKER_09]: And in this scene, we see a side of Carol that's very, very vulnerable.

[SPEAKER_09]: All like the masking that we've seen through up until this point of the series is kind of gone and we just see her as like a true individual.

[SPEAKER_09]: That isn't pretending anymore.

[SPEAKER_09]: She softens quite a bit in the scene.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was really vulnerable and really raw in a way that like her guards really down and it felt so genuine and the acting was so, so strong.

[SPEAKER_09]: She hears a car pull up, it's asocia she arrives in Carolyn braces her in a desperate hug like falls into her while crying and we learn that Carol painted come back on the driveway.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I'm thinking, why didn't she just call them?

[SPEAKER_09]: Like she went to the store to get paint to like paint it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like why not?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a good point.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's a good point.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Why?

[SPEAKER_06]: It certainly is an act of penance in a way.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is a, it's not just a phone call.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is a, a demonstrative act.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like a grand gesture.

[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was interesting, it bothered me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was like just call, like, right.

[SPEAKER_09]: Maybe that doesn't exist any more for you days later.

[SPEAKER_09]: Maybe something happened, like, they took her privilege as a way when she got sassy about the gatorade.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it certainly signals to us, her, the significance of her intent and her meaning and that this isn't just a surface like, oh, no, I'm fine, really, I'm okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's really no, I went to a lot of trouble [SPEAKER_06]: I'm at a point where I need you.

[SPEAKER_06]: I need people.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'd be alone anymore.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think for a character like Carol saying your sorry out loud is a lot harder than writing your sorry.

[SPEAKER_08]: And she's right.

[SPEAKER_09]: She's sorry, but she just said, yeah, yeah, did something to show it.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's hard just maybe too vulnerable to say it out loud.

[SPEAKER_05]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's how I'm going [SPEAKER_09]: What are your, I, those are the all the comments I have.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think I knocked off every note I had on this episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Good job.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, what else do you have to share, David?

[SPEAKER_06]: The, I have to laugh at the firework hitting the roof because it may be think of the pizza on Walter White's house and then they're just doing stuff to roofs of things in this show, whether intentionally or unintentionally, I, I loved the idea that the roof was on fire.

[SPEAKER_06]: about where the pizza would have been thrown if somebody had thrown a pizza up on there.

[SPEAKER_06]: I also love the fact that the trash drone is still hanging from the light post.

[SPEAKER_06]: You can see it in one of the scenes.

[SPEAKER_06]: The question of the firework, I was interesting because it like fell over and I didn't see the, oh my first watch, I didn't notice that it had fallen over a second watch, I caught that and so this question of what was the setup for that was she just out getting her kicks with the fireworks and then that.

[SPEAKER_06]: fell over and she was like, huh, one would that feel like like she's not the way that I was decoding was that she's numb and that she's needing to feel something and that she's pushing this borderline suicide question and when it goes by her, you know, she has that like, okay, this is not good, this self reflection, like we've seen her be self reflective in the past.

[SPEAKER_06]: and make a different decisions for herself, and obviously this is one that has more impact.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it was like, was that just an accident that that firework fell over or did she intentionally set it up?

[SPEAKER_06]: And I don't think she set it up because it all's over.

[SPEAKER_09]: So my read of that was that she didn't set it up that way.

[SPEAKER_09]: It fell over and she realized she was in the line of sight for it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then she had the thought unplanned, unprovoked.

[SPEAKER_09]: If I did nothing right now, [SPEAKER_09]: this would all be over.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it wouldn't be suicide because it would just be an accident.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, if I just did nothing, maybe I fell asleep like great.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was sad.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was really, really sad.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it can really kind of triggering to folks that have any sort of suicidal ideation or intrusive thoughts towards that, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't think it was wanting to feel something.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think it was a moment of surrender.

[SPEAKER_09]: If I just did nothing, I'm quite numb.

[SPEAKER_09]: And if I just sat here, no one would.

[SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't intentionally thrill-seeking behavior.

[SPEAKER_06]: The thrill-seeking was sitting a middle of all of these fireworks shooting off.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I even think that thrill-seeking behavior was how the fireworks things started initially.

[SPEAKER_09]: And now it's like, you know, it's like an addict.

[SPEAKER_09]: You'd have a little bit at first.

[SPEAKER_09]: And now she's got all these fireworks.

[SPEAKER_09]: And she still needs more to feel that.

[SPEAKER_09]: And she still is.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Which we start with that one little sparkler.

[SPEAKER_09]: And that really did it for her.

[SPEAKER_09]: And maybe she's realizing that why, why carry on like this and who would fault me if I just sat here.

[SPEAKER_08]: You know, not the least.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, no.

[SPEAKER_09]: She's not accountable to anybody and she hasn't been for quite some time.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that that can take a toll, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: And that did push her to make a change.

[SPEAKER_09]: And so a rock bottom moment for her.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: For sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then we have to talk about the [SPEAKER_06]: He's very little that has left a chance in the show.

[SPEAKER_06]: So the fact that the role's voice is parked in the driveway and we can see the words just married as Carol comes out into the driveway and faces a show before they embrace.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I'm just flagging it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying it what it means.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just noticed it as a cinema film thing kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: But that embrace, [SPEAKER_06]: Like, hoof, it was very affecting to me.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, same.

[SPEAKER_06]: And there was a moment where Carol takes this brass, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like she's been suffoc- she's drowning.

[SPEAKER_06]: She did it and when the physical contact has her physiologically respond in that gasping breath way of, oh my God, I didn't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: that this, you know, I forgot what it was to be with people.

[SPEAKER_06]: And, and, and, and it's so, I was suffocating.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was drowning and your touch is air to me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can breathe again.

[SPEAKER_09]: And even like physical touch after being deprived of that personal long, I remember during COVID, me and my friends were, um, [SPEAKER_09]: I'm such like a hugger.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm just a hugger as a person.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like missing that.

[SPEAKER_09]: I can adjust to this.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, I'm gonna hug you.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think it's really powerful.

[SPEAKER_09]: And a great, a really awesome way to connect with other humans and feel like you're part of a culture and society, just like whatever.

[SPEAKER_09]: So it's humanizing.

[SPEAKER_09]: So during COVID, what we used to do is burrito, we do burrito hugs, but I take my girlfriends and wrap them in blankets.

[SPEAKER_09]: and I'd wrap myself up in a blanket so we'd be coned except for our arms.

[SPEAKER_10]: So we'd be like, like, each other?

[SPEAKER_10]: And it was so powerful.

[SPEAKER_10]: Like, we'd be in tears, just like hugged, bizarre.

[SPEAKER_10]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: By a fire in someone's driveway outside, like two degree temperatures, just hugging each other wrapped in blankets.

[SPEAKER_09]: I still like feel that and it is just really profound to power, well this physical touch after being to pride from it for so long.

[SPEAKER_09]: So that's what I was thinking about in the scene, is this like a motionality of just embracing other people when you've been starved for so long and and that like skin to skin contact in the oxytocin that's expressed in those moments, how that can [SPEAKER_09]: literally zap you out of a loss at our tone in the walks toast and depression place.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's what it's for, right?

[SPEAKER_09]: So without that input in our neurobiology, neurochemistry excuse me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sorry to me.

[SPEAKER_10]: Sorry to me speak.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'm just going to send a very [SPEAKER_09]: I love so much, I love so much, that we need that for survival and I think that just as we need water and food and shelter, we need other humans, not just as a sociological component, but also like literally a physiological component, and then we talk about the [SPEAKER_06]: the gap and then we have a closing of the gap here with Carol and she moves across that gap, which takes a lot of courage.

[SPEAKER_06]: You can't dismiss the fact that her, and for both Manusos and Diabate to some degree, because we haven't seen a journey for him yet, but then Carol is the first of our characters to really cross this threshold where [SPEAKER_06]: seven episodes they've been setting up who she is and then when that moment comes when that hug comes as a piece of television as a piece of dramatic representation on screen it's powerful and effective and I think it really pays off and I can't imagine what a eight nine are going to be like that's going to be crazy.

[SPEAKER_06]: I wanted to share a very, very, very brief story about gaping [SPEAKER_06]: when you're talking about the burrito hug made me think of something I was traveling once a number of years ago.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now I can't remember where I was.

[SPEAKER_06]: Eastern Europe, north of Greece.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it was Macedonia.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it must have been Scorpia or something.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was at a train station.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was looking for the left luggage thing because I had to hold [SPEAKER_06]: found the guy, older gentleman, and I didn't speak, we didn't speak each other's languages.

[SPEAKER_06]: We figured out what we needed and we shared a cigarette speaking of cigarettes.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I had this very human moment of, here's this older gentleman, he was probably in his late 50s, here I am, and my mid 40s or whatever, two different worlds, but we could share this common moment.

[SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_09]: That's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's psychological different, you know, of like being alone in our heads.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it just makes me think of your burrito hug.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, you know, all the way to the physical aspect of it, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: I like trying to close the gap between us so that we don't feel so freaking alone, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, because we're just being bombing around in our skulls.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, we're all so much more like than we are different.

[SPEAKER_09]: And when we talk about, [SPEAKER_09]: going way back to the start of this episode when we talk about biases and how we interpret other people and how we are all three-dimensional people, knowing that gives us such great empathy to know that we all have backs, or we all have nuance, we all have challenges and internal monologues and almost to us.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that's really connecting and powerful.

[SPEAKER_09]: We are often in this society [SPEAKER_09]: Any cultural relativism and any biases that come up and we're all open to change and open to grow and we're seeing a lot of change and growth in these characters and I can't wait to connect with the others after this 40 day gap because we saw such tremendous growth in Carol and I wonder what everyone else has been up to.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I can't wait for the next episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: It is called charmed offent charm offensive.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's give me interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: No clue what that means.

[SPEAKER_06]: No clue.

[SPEAKER_06]: Makes me think of that old phrase, imagine people complexly like his little mantra for yourself.

[SPEAKER_06]: Just remember that they are, they're going through as much as you're going through this moment.

[SPEAKER_09]: And to offer them like the most generous explanation for their behavior.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think going back to my co-colleague, my friend Mark's comment about the other unjoined, not like, [SPEAKER_09]: having empathy and understanding for Carol when it like makes sense that she would feel that way.

[SPEAKER_09]: They're not offering her the most generous explanation and that seems like so short-sighted to me, that I agree with Mark that I have a, I'm eager to see if they've come around because it seems so wild that they'd be like, get out of here, Carol.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're crazy.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, reaction makes sense.

[SPEAKER_06]: Great.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, let's take a quick break.

[SPEAKER_06]: We have three big emails that are standalone pieces that we want to get to before we wrap it up.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we will be right back.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we're back and we've got some final wrap up email that we want to get to.

[SPEAKER_06]: Marker, I have to stand up for a second.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to lift the cat out.

[SPEAKER_09]: So our first email, again, from Cincinnati Joe's really dialed in this week, crushing it in content or so happy for it, they write some people are hard on Carol because they find her rude, a downer, or just unlikable.

[SPEAKER_09]: But even setting aside the fact that this collective killed the only person she loved, an addition to the world being decimated by an alien virus, she is facing loss of independent thinking along with the rest of the human race.

[SPEAKER_09]: He goes on, picture her as Captain Picard with, picture her as Captain Picard with, can I do it?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, sure, sure, sure, sure as picture her as Captain Picard with the board or better yet as Kirk being trapped in a world where an alien virus has converted everyone into the milk's milk toast.

[SPEAKER_09]: Milk toast, I mind.

[SPEAKER_09]: Do you think that he'd quote get along and quote and play nice?

[SPEAKER_09]: No.

[SPEAKER_09]: He'd be telling the joint house stupid there's a side is and he'd be doing everything in his power to change things and he wouldn't be nice about it.

[SPEAKER_09]: Picard probably would be nice about I can't speak to Captain Kirk, I'm not a fan.

[SPEAKER_09]: hot take.

[SPEAKER_09]: There's also neo in the matrix giving agents myth the finger.

[SPEAKER_09]: There are many examples of people quote men or parenthesis men in sci-fi really against conformist societies.

[SPEAKER_09]: Carol continues that tradition with the added fire of her grief.

[SPEAKER_09]: Again, very important, [SPEAKER_06]: There are so many examples of, especially in the original series of Star Trek.

[SPEAKER_06]: where there's the seeming utopias or, you know, a monoculture societies where it's like, uh, wait a minute.

[SPEAKER_06]: But then that's a cultural value, is it?

[SPEAKER_06]: And like individualism versus a more collective collective mindset?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, saying, yeah, we're individuals, but we live within a larger state or society and that is more important.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, we have agreed or we have whatever decision making process have decided that that's the case.

[SPEAKER_09]: I like the individualist first collectiveist culture is a huge area of cultural relativism.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think one of the most relatable and understanding ones is that.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, in America, we live in an individualist culture, and that's why like maybe during COVID, some people had a hard time with masking or kind of conforming, because that's our culture doesn't support that viewpoint and it's not right or wrong, it's just how we are.

[SPEAKER_09]: And Picard would be following the prime directive and not trying to assimilate other cultures into his belief, and I don't know if Captain Kirk was working under the prime directive, so.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, as long as they didn't steal his science officer's brain, I think maybe he would be a little bit chill.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's usually some instigation.

[SPEAKER_06]: By the way, a quick shot, sideway shout out to our friends over at the Captain's pod.

[SPEAKER_06]: Go check them out.

[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, my gosh.

[SPEAKER_10]: You can't, can't, can't, can I?

[SPEAKER_10]: Poor Mark, he's like trying to book nevermind the music recordings with me.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'm like, I actually, I'm busy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's get other podcasts.

[SPEAKER_09]: Because now there's stuff like, thanks for your comments and senetti joke, keep them going.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have another email from Jordan.

[SPEAKER_09]: Amde, do you want to read it?

[SPEAKER_06]: Sure, our dear friend Jordan, and thanks again, Jordan, when we were going up to visit Montreal a month or two back, Jordan helped dial us in to a couple places.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, true friend of the pod, Salud, Laura, and of course the antagonistic relationship between Jordan and John is great, because [SPEAKER_06]: of the French pronunciation, some things.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I'm just going to do a meetingly passable version of French accents.

[SPEAKER_06]: Salud Lorhounds and Lorhounds, Jason, killing it Nicole.

[SPEAKER_06]: OK, David, you snagged me in for a comment with your very good introduction on French.

[SPEAKER_06]: Bravo, Mont-Share.

[SPEAKER_06]: I tried.

[SPEAKER_06]: I pragged with that very little phrase.

[SPEAKER_06]: Loving this show and how much I love hate, mostly love, Carol, it's funny because I hated the pacing of breaking bad, but I find the tone and pacing of the show to be perfect.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's rare these days to have a character like Carol who invokes such a range of human emotions from the audience.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want to interject something I really quick to and this goes back into something that Cincinnati Joe had said and then something that I heard on the fresh air interview with [SPEAKER_06]: Ray Chorn today, where she's talking about as a woman being told that she has to moderate or mitigate or manage her, her anger response system.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_06]: And this whole, I think a theme of this whole podcast episode today has been about Carol as a complex person.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so many of our television shows.

[SPEAKER_06]: We have heroes and villains and [SPEAKER_06]: two-dimensional cutouts, and as Lustu said earlier, that Carol is three-dimensional, they're giving us three-dimensionality to these characters, is I think really interesting and unique for television show.

[SPEAKER_06]: carrying on.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't have much more to come in on because you two are in cry in your coverage, only to say that David, you're as thought provoking as deaf guys, this I'm like blushing reading this so thought provoking in a depth of several Nicole's humor combined with the psychological expertise is equally thought provoking.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for the very kind words.

[SPEAKER_06]: Being a white privilege male, I hadn't given the thought as to whether or not losing art or my individuality would be better than a race of equals that to our knowledge, no suffering.

[SPEAKER_06]: The socialist in me slapped me hard when you forced that thought.

[SPEAKER_06]: One overall impression I do have is that with the offbeat and at times awkward tone of the show, I feel we are being led to a very dark reveal at the end, bump, bump, bump, bump.

[SPEAKER_06]: My own wacky theory is leaning towards the aliens who broadcasted the hive brew recipe, being not so well-meaning full after all, perhaps they are farming out humanity or paving away for integral act of kiwi.

[SPEAKER_06]: site note interesting there's a lot of response because we've been our sci-fi diet is so coded for us to think of aliens as profidious as the like they are going to come for us and [SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting, that's a default response.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't know what these quote-unquote aliens are up to.

[SPEAKER_06]: We've only seen a space signal, so everything else is a raw-shark test.

[SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, here we are.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm carrying on with Jordan's email.

[SPEAKER_06]: They may even have a Thanos type goal of cleansing the universe.

[SPEAKER_06]: And while I don't think we will see them, maybe we will learn more about them via Musos.

[SPEAKER_06]: who may possibly discover another signal, and that together with Carol, they learn something sinister.

[SPEAKER_06]: The joint are now basically more knowledgeable than the internet itself.

[SPEAKER_06]: What was having the collective thoughts and memories of everyone?

[SPEAKER_06]: I would use Zoja as my own personal Wiki.

[SPEAKER_06]: Was there actually an aluminumity?

[SPEAKER_06]: What was their goal?

[SPEAKER_06]: Do we really know who killed [SPEAKER_06]: would eventually get around to the end game question.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's about it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Only I must add that the drone in garbage scene was instantly iconic.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and as for the stem cells, more likely they would do a bone marrow biopsy in the femur, which hurts like hell.

[SPEAKER_06]: Lumbar punctures are usually pretty straightforward.

[SPEAKER_06]: and result mostly in just a headache.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sorry, I spend my days often assisting with them and wouldn't yield to this type of sense cells they're looking for.

[SPEAKER_06]: I believe Jordan is in the medical profession.

[SPEAKER_06]: Is a medical profession?

[SPEAKER_10]: I would hope he's in the medical profession.

[SPEAKER_10]: If he's just staying with one bar partner.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, you know, no, just, you know, I guess the cops shall.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'll take a espresso, double espresso and a lumbar.

[SPEAKER_10]: Oh, and gosh, yeah, I didn't know.

[SPEAKER_10]: So thanks for, thanks, thanks for being here.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I believe Jordan is a medical professor here.

[SPEAKER_06]: So this has been our Canadian, Canadian area.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, the Canadian health care system.

[SPEAKER_06]: Can we have that?

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you both for an amazing coverage and happy holidays, Jewish fit to all the Laura Hounds family and community.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you, Jordan.

[SPEAKER_06]: Always a pleasure to hear for you.

[SPEAKER_06]: I am glad that you are enjoying this show so much and it is good to hear from you.

[SPEAKER_09]: Thanks Jordan.

[SPEAKER_09]: We have another email from Chris.

[SPEAKER_09]: Chris H.

This is a doozy.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna do my best, okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: I have a pet theory about this show, Chris writes.

[SPEAKER_09]: Aliens didn't send the RNA virus signal as the astronomer has suspected.

[SPEAKER_09]: It originated on Earth and was created by AI.

[SPEAKER_09]: As someone who was both professionally and personally spent way too much time with AI and the leading edge, large language models, LLMs, the similarities are striking and effectively dramatized for compelling television.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like LLMs, the plurbs contain such a complete sum of human knowledge.

[SPEAKER_09]: They know how to perform any rot task, especially recipes, but literally nothing beyond that.

[SPEAKER_09]: For example, apparently they don't understand how the virus actually works, and expect to take months to figure it out.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like LLMs, they can accomplish some real neat tricks, but fill it long-term planning and strategy.

[SPEAKER_09]: They have well-defined guard rails, which is also commonplace for all LLMs.

[SPEAKER_09]: Their specific guard rails seem heavily inspired by Asimov's three laws of robotics, to paraphrase, do no harm, obey humans, protect itself.

[SPEAKER_09]: Revisiting the atom bomb conversation at the hospital really drove this home for me.

[SPEAKER_09]: The plurbs are also comically ob-squio, I don't know how to say that, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: Of secrets, I'm not like, you're just pretending to be smart.

[SPEAKER_09]: Reputation shared with many current LLMs.

[SPEAKER_09]: Finally, the plurbs are blissfully unaware of their own purpose.

[SPEAKER_09]: They spread due to a biological imperative, but don't engage in why.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like actual LLMs, there's actually no initiative.

[SPEAKER_09]: They just follow their guardrails and do as commanded.

[SPEAKER_09]: So what are they actually accomplishing?

[SPEAKER_09]: What change is being affected?

[SPEAKER_09]: Peace on Earth, the end of violence, the end of racism hunger, war, strife by literally any means necessary.

[SPEAKER_09]: The way this is playing out is eerily reminiscent of the quote paperclip Max Myzer unquote thought experiment in which AI accidentally turns every single atom into the universe into paperclips.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh yeah, not heard of this.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is super interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it was first published by one of the most prevalent early AI researchers in 2003.

Who was the man behind the curtain?

[SPEAKER_09]: Who actually set up all this into motion?

[SPEAKER_09]: Who was attempting to save humanity from itself?

[SPEAKER_09]: Mr.

Kumbha, Dibyati.

[SPEAKER_09]: Now, I'm not sure if this show is the kind of show that's going to delve into the Manusha of LOMs in AI, I think it's more meant as a character study than a world-building mystery box show, but these concepts seem incredibly relevant in the show at this time on this specific streaming network.

[SPEAKER_09]: Thanks, longtime fan of everything, Laura Hounds, and loving your coverage of this show.

[SPEAKER_09]: lots to unpack there.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would be interested to hear from Mr.

Gilligan as to the influence of AI LLM stuff because my [SPEAKER_06]: What little that he has said about the production of this, you know, the origins of the show, and he has not said that much.

[SPEAKER_06]: There was just a bunch of early season stuff where he was making rounds of interviews and talked about sort of how the original idea came to him and how long ago in were LLM's present in a daily conversational way that as they are today and now.

[SPEAKER_06]: Another show that is sort of making some waves, which is the new Ken Burns documentary, which aired on PBS and about the American Revolution, that they started that project over 10 years ago, and it's only coming, it's airing now.

[SPEAKER_06]: They didn't mean it for it to be one year ahead of the American, you know, the anniversary of the 250th anniversary of the American Revolution, nor to say anything about our current political landscape in this country.

[SPEAKER_06]: They did not intend that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And yet, [SPEAKER_06]: here it is.

[SPEAKER_06]: So did Vince Gilligan understand and have a view to understanding what LLMs were going to do to shape our daily lives and it is everywhere.

[SPEAKER_06]: In my my day job industry, it people are using all over the place for daily tasks to to big stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah I went at college.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's it's [SPEAKER_09]: a problem.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's literally reshaping the way that we're living our, the way our work lives are.

[SPEAKER_09]: And like people are freaking out like you, they're you're in two camps in higher, either you embrace AI and work with it or you buck against it.

[SPEAKER_09]: There's not a lot of people in the middle of the road that I've encountered and maybe I'm I have a small sample, but that's my opinion on either like you're in or you're out.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's it's I've heard that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And and it's somebody who's using it a lot.

[SPEAKER_06]: I will [SPEAKER_06]: with productivity, with writing specifically in a lot of ways, I can think thoughts, I can speak thoughts, but getting them on paper is too hard.

[SPEAKER_06]: I now have a writing partner where I'm taking my ideas and my nuances and connections and interpretations and perspectives on things, and then I can have those pulled together for me, and I do very close edits.

[SPEAKER_06]: I go through 20 rounds on a draft, sometimes on a blog post or something.

[SPEAKER_06]: But it is a mobility, I have to be ableist.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not trying to be ableist here, but I'm trying to find an analogy where I couldn't do something and now through a piece of technology.

[SPEAKER_09]: And jump starts your ideas in a way that gets over that the hindrance of getting started on something.

[SPEAKER_06]: And following through, I'm terrible with writing.

[SPEAKER_06]: And this really completely, [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's incredible, but I'm not just hitting a button saying, make me a blog post about this.

[SPEAKER_09]: No.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm shaping the very deeply.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's helping you build momentum towards a project.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think that that's what a lot of folks need to get started and using AI as a starting point, I think is very valid.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's to me, I don't see a huge difference beyond the environmental impacts, [SPEAKER_09]: you know, how was that different from using a Google search, you know, it's just a more conversational search model.

[SPEAKER_06]: How much is that, how much is the internet searching effect higher education when that was for Wikipedia, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: I remember the Wikipedia, oh my god, they could just go get Wikipedia and they just like copy things out of whole art.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I think we have the trick of teaching is now to teach to how to incorporate it, how to cite and annotate AI searches in work cited, APAs coming out with guidelines on how to do that.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like we're just we need to catch up and I think in higher ed the tricky thing is that the students know more than the teachers.

[SPEAKER_09]: And [SPEAKER_09]: They're laughing at us from like now if you use chat GBT and they're like we're like so past chat She's the thing So there's a lot of catching up that has to happen and not a lot of people have the appetite towards that But in terms of this is a an overarching metaphor I think that there are definitely correlations between other stages theory And Maybe it was accidental or maybe not we're gonna have to wait and see, but it seems like so on the nose [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't think they've ever addressed that in the blood.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, I haven't heard anything.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I haven't listened to everything, but I've only heard Vince Gilligan talk about his initial ideas for the germination of the show.

[SPEAKER_06]: Never have a wider context of this.

[SPEAKER_09]: And I feel like if it wasn't about AI, they would say it's not about AI.

[SPEAKER_09]: It would like say it.

[SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: I mean, you're to see what happens next, but it's not wild.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like the theory isn't a 10-file theory.

[SPEAKER_09]: This is, it makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think the 10-file part is where did the signal come from, but in terms of the comparison to LLMs and whatnot, yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Lat, we'll let's end on a little fun note.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sub-zero.

[SPEAKER_06]: Lormaster, dear friend of the pod, a keeper of the, or a Wrangler of the Cats of the, of the show tracker, we have a show tracker resource thing and in sub-zero is really our primary person who who helps us with that.

[SPEAKER_06]: So thank you Sub-zero for all that you do for the community.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, Laura Hounds, there are some examples I want to try as an unjoined, unlike the about date.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to [SPEAKER_06]: stage anything where I'm rigged it to be the winner.

[SPEAKER_06]: Where's the fun in that?

[SPEAKER_06]: I just want the experience.

[SPEAKER_06]: Number one, and you list out six things.

[SPEAKER_06]: Number one, drive an F1 car around Monaco.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to just keep this short.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm just going to list all face things.

[SPEAKER_06]: Number two, cook dinner with a Michelin star chef.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: It could be a six year old.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that could be anybody.

[SPEAKER_06]: Play a baseball game at Ridley Field.

[SPEAKER_06]: take a ride on a B2 bomber, apparently a sub-zero has been fascinated with that piece of technology for a long time.

[SPEAKER_06]: Number five, go up to the space station, go through some NASA training and do up there and do like a simple experiment or do, and then lastly take all access guided tours to the restricted places such as [SPEAKER_06]: Area 51, Surn, Fort Knox, the global seed vaults, and the Vatican archives.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want all the secrets, you said, I want all the secrets.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm telling you, even in this blurb-infested world, there's no universe that exists.

[SPEAKER_09]: That, like, I don't want to go up to the space station.

[SPEAKER_09]: You had made a comment of going like an undergrad, like a, like a immersive, like, so it was a situation.

[SPEAKER_09]: No, there's no way, there's no way I would, even in, like, with all these guardrails in place, I'm not going to space, dude.

[SPEAKER_09]: Like, I'm not going in this underwater pod, it's fine.

[SPEAKER_10]: I can't even deal with like an IMAX movie theater.

[SPEAKER_10]: It's too much for me.

[SPEAKER_10]: I can't do it.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I would drive your so you've you've declined to join the joined.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: How would you live out your days?

[SPEAKER_06]: What what are the kinds of things that you would honestly?

[SPEAKER_09]: I would get really into like art making.

[SPEAKER_09]: I think that like I'd want a really awesome art studio with like all the things I would want.

[SPEAKER_09]: Um, I come to your shows.

[SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you'd have to because I first, of course, the join in this world, you're joined.

[SPEAKER_10]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_09]: I would want a Bands to play for me.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'd want like concert experiences.

[SPEAKER_06]: Would you fill the stadium with the plurbs?

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but I also want like my the individuals that used to be my friends.

[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, to be like near me got it And I'd ordered them to like actually they're not plurbed Right Plurbed we're Yeah, but I think that works like I noticed I was naturally saying yeah, I thought like I don't know I think [SPEAKER_09]: I'd want all the secrets.

[SPEAKER_09]: I kind of want my life to be exactly how it is now, except like everyone does what I tell them to do.

[SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_09]: All right.

[SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm not a risk taker.

[SPEAKER_09]: I tried the world.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's not for me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_09]: I like my house.

[SPEAKER_09]: What do you, of this list, what are the things that seem really into like intriguing to you?

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know that I want to drive an F1.

[SPEAKER_06]: The space idea is intriguing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think for sure, I would do a whole lot of traveling.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like I would do some, maybe some deep sea research.

[SPEAKER_06]: They have these cool submersibles, if you watch blue planets, or especially blue planets too.

[SPEAKER_06]: with little things.

[SPEAKER_06]: They don't go down too deep, but you know, I'd love to have that experience.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'd love to.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to do like, you know, Scott or anybody like that, go trek to the South Pole.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I want to go see some penguin colonies.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'd want to do definitely do some.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to do high altitude or extreme adventure, but I would travel a lot.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'd probably do a lot of scuba diving, a lot of hiking and trekking to see some cool places.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that's where I would start like if my first initial reaction would be [SPEAKER_06]: to get around to some of those bucket list places that all of the influencer on Instagram have sort of ruined now.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would go do all that kind of traveling.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but you're doing it alone.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, I would have, I would, like, you know, I would need guides and logistics people and we would go together.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would go up with Sylvia Earl and say, okay, let's go study some sharks or whatever and you know, get the way to research people.

[SPEAKER_09]: You didn't brace in this world like the the plurbs haven't disowned you.

[SPEAKER_09]: You don't have the voicemail.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, yeah, I always be totally in.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'd be.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you're playing along.

[SPEAKER_06]: Hey, let's go do this thing and we need a tea.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's put our team together.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's get our equipment.

[SPEAKER_06]: Let's do some expeditioning.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I would go with them.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yes, I think it would be kind of lonely.

[SPEAKER_09]: And it's tough.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's tough to imagine.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would lean into acquisition.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would lean into like discovery, exploration, discovery, and acquisition.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then therein, there are still many things to learn and know.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I guess maybe that would be the source of [SPEAKER_06]: new knowledge is like okay let's go study this thing or research this thing or travel here and what do we know about it and what do we don't know about it and like what what science can we do it up you know collect it like it isn't I would be citizen science extraordinary that's really me that's a great brand should trademark that right now [SPEAKER_09]: So listeners, let us know, what would you do if you were unplurbed and you had all the resources available to you?

[SPEAKER_09]: Like what would you do?

[SPEAKER_09]: I'm seeing how many like different ways I can like.

[SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to get blurred.

[SPEAKER_09]: Send us an email or a voicemail.

[SPEAKER_09]: Pluribus at the Lorehouse.com.

[SPEAKER_09]: Let's know what you thought of this episode episode seven.

[SPEAKER_09]: Let's know what you would do if you had [SPEAKER_09]: access to anything.

[SPEAKER_09]: What would be your top thing to do and what would be something you would never want to do.

[SPEAKER_09]: You know, so check the show notes for links to everything we talked about today.

[SPEAKER_09]: It's been a great episode.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're enjoying this coverage.

[SPEAKER_09]: Get two more to go on this season.

[SPEAKER_09]: I can't wait to see what happens in our next episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: What else is going on on the lower-hounds network?

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, that was a network.

[SPEAKER_06]: John and Alicia just put out an episode on the Telemosca.

[SPEAKER_06]: One, they did a one-shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're covering, they're still covering it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to Dairy.

[SPEAKER_06]: That should be wrapping up soon.

[SPEAKER_06]: We have our big top 10 end of year action happening.

[SPEAKER_06]: We've got a community survey out for subscribers, make it to put in their top 10s.

[SPEAKER_06]: We do a data analytics on it and display it in some cool funky graphs.

[SPEAKER_06]: That is typically a show that is on our subscriber, only network, but we make that available to everyone on December 25th.

[SPEAKER_06]: On December 26th, another public episode will be our all of our friends and co-hosts and associated podcasts, where I do top threes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just recorded with you and Mark Nicole, and with your top threes, and so we package all of those together and put that out on Boxing Day.

[SPEAKER_06]: We still have some stuff going on.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not sure exactly where everything is going, but some stranger things, one shots.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's a wicked for good somewhere out there in the ether.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're recording an average.

[SPEAKER_09]: We're about halfway through recording wickedness.

[SPEAKER_06]: We had to break it into two.

[SPEAKER_10]: We were talking.

[SPEAKER_10]: It's a Marilyn and Alicia.

[SPEAKER_10]: So we got to with the two-hour mark.

[SPEAKER_10]: And we're like, wait, we need more time.

[SPEAKER_10]: So we're recording more tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_10]: So it should be up pretty soon.

[SPEAKER_06]: Very cool.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was just on a episode of Nevermind the music.

[SPEAKER_06]: I had a lot of thought you can go find out.

[SPEAKER_06]: We talked about the generational music theorem of how music is passed to from generation to generation and where it falls down, where it doesn't exactly work.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I actually have a blog post in process that should be awesome.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we're talking about Wonderwall by Oasis and birth order theory.

[SPEAKER_09]: Never mind the music, also we have a feedback episode, a mailback episode coming out pretty soon.

[SPEAKER_09]: We just recorded, we had so much great, great, great feedback.

[SPEAKER_09]: Again, really impressed by the breadth of knowledge with our community here.

[SPEAKER_09]: It was awesome to hear from you guys, so please keep the feedback coming.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, otherwise radioactive ramblers will.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just did my top three recording with Richard and Aaron and they are covering for sure confirmed season two of fallout.

[SPEAKER_09]: The boys are back.

[SPEAKER_09]: I've been watching fallout and then I don't know if I shared it on this podcast.

[SPEAKER_09]: And then I was watching it and then I was still so thirsty for content that I started listening to their coverage from a long time ago and they're so funny I can't wait to hear their thoughts season 2 we're stoked for it in our house so.

[SPEAKER_06]: So if you go to the show notes, there's a link to a link tree and that link tree has the links to all of the different affiliate podcasts that we have in our network so I think we'll keep it short there that is the most important stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: we should read out.

[SPEAKER_06]: Are you reading this week's?

[SPEAKER_06]: You can read it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, God, it is a lot.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're better.

[SPEAKER_09]: You're just better at it.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's just the practice.

[SPEAKER_06]: The discord server boosters, these folks donate to the discord to make our community space more functional.

[SPEAKER_06]: So that's Aaron Kay, Tiller the Thriller, Aaron Kay being one of the radioactive hosts.

[SPEAKER_06]: Doves 71, Athena, Agilell, the Stu, hey, the aforementioned of the Stu, Nancy M.

handed the pod, Ghost of Partition, radioactive Richard, another, uh, uh, [SPEAKER_06]: What do they call radioactive ramblers?

[SPEAKER_06]: So my brain is like, I haven't driven her in switching gears and Adrienne for who are helping in making community space more functional.

[SPEAKER_06]: To our lower masters, to our top tier subscribers, the people who help keep the lights on and bits turning out, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, SC.

[SPEAKER_06]: Peter O.

H.

Nancy M.

Doov-71, Brian 863, Frederick H.

Sarah L.

Garth C.

Andrew B.

Kwong Yoo, Nathan T.

Sub-Zero, Aaron K.

Dally B.

Mothership-61, Naurals.

[SPEAKER_06]: Kathy W.

Lustu.

[SPEAKER_06]: Jeffrey B.

Eliseo, you Ben B.

Scott F.

Steven N.

Julia F.

Collie S.

Gilmariel, Paul K.

Rocky Zim, Jessica A.

Redzipi, the TCS.

[SPEAKER_06]: Dupa Mini.

[SPEAKER_06]: Catch it, L&R.

[SPEAKER_06]: And always last, but never least, Adrienne.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you also very much for supporting our community and us as podcasters.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nicole, we're coming into the end run here last two more episodes and we're going to have to do like a little two step for the final episode but we're working out our plan so stay tuned and we'll let you guys know in the next episode how we're going to break down episode 9 because it falls right in the holiday zone when I'm going to be traveling so we will have coverage and then we'll let you know on episode 8 how we're doing that but [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you again Nicole for this Augusta has been a delight to Carvely show with you.

[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, likewise David's always nice to chat and I can't wait for more so we'll see you guys next week [SPEAKER_06]: The Laura Hound podcast is produced and published by the Laura Hounds.

[SPEAKER_06]: You can send questions and comments to Laurahounds at thewarhounds.com.

[SPEAKER_06]: Get ad free access to all Laura Hound's podcasts on Patreon or Supercast and connect with us on Blue Sky and Join us on our Discord server.

[SPEAKER_06]: Links for everything are in no link tree in the show notes of this episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for listening.