1 00:00:05,606 --> 00:00:09,466 Hi everybody. 2 00:00:09,466 --> 00:00:10,270 Hi. 3 00:00:10,270 --> 00:00:11,020 Look at us. 4 00:00:11,020 --> 00:00:11,498 We're here. 5 00:00:11,498 --> 00:00:12,653 We're here in person. 6 00:00:12,653 --> 00:00:14,275 We are very excited about it. 7 00:00:14,275 --> 00:00:17,218 So I hope you all are very excited about this. 8 00:00:17,218 --> 00:00:22,942 We're having some automatic camera zoom here that I think is is choosing the white lady. 9 00:00:23,122 --> 00:00:24,304 Shockingly enough. 10 00:00:24,304 --> 00:00:26,528 Which so we talked about 11 00:00:26,528 --> 00:00:28,268 Was it last time or was two times ago? 12 00:00:28,268 --> 00:00:32,380 I think it was last Yeah, because you were wearing that whitish sort of shirt. 13 00:00:32,380 --> 00:00:40,158 And you said that you learned that when you wear something white, the camera focuses on you better, it shows you up better. 14 00:00:40,158 --> 00:00:40,822 Yep. 15 00:00:40,822 --> 00:00:42,512 It doesn't do the overexposure. 16 00:00:42,512 --> 00:00:46,043 And this was such a good lesson to me on the believe thing. 17 00:00:46,043 --> 00:00:46,474 Right? 18 00:00:46,474 --> 00:00:50,905 Because you said that and my reaction was like, okay, that probably makes sense. 19 00:00:50,905 --> 00:00:54,385 Like, how would I that's a thing I would never know. 20 00:00:54,385 --> 00:00:58,657 And so, let's see, I'm just gonna accept that. 21 00:00:58,657 --> 00:00:59,227 Right. 22 00:00:59,227 --> 00:01:02,019 And then I was telling it to my husband. 23 00:01:02,019 --> 00:01:08,301 And like, I know he's not on the same journey as me, but he's very, very open minded. 24 00:01:08,301 --> 00:01:15,725 So I was actually kind of surprised that he was like, and then started talking about the data. 25 00:01:15,725 --> 00:01:18,206 And I was like, Oh, baby, no. 26 00:01:18,206 --> 00:01:21,257 See, and it's and that's, that's where 27 00:01:21,257 --> 00:01:26,829 the racism shows up, it's not in calling people whatever or being overtly anything. 28 00:01:26,829 --> 00:01:32,091 But when a black person says, cameras are racist because anything. 29 00:01:32,151 --> 00:01:35,842 And I said the Shirley cam, like there's actual lots of information on it. 30 00:01:35,842 --> 00:01:40,085 Not just like, I wonder what he thinks I'm thinking when I'm talking. 31 00:01:40,085 --> 00:01:43,007 Like maybe he thinks, something's happening. 32 00:01:43,007 --> 00:01:44,353 That's racist. 33 00:01:44,353 --> 00:01:47,088 Like sometimes I make that joke, but 34 00:01:47,442 --> 00:01:49,262 Why would I say it? 35 00:01:49,262 --> 00:01:58,942 I think so one thing is I think there is really not an understanding that like, yes, everything is racist. 36 00:01:58,942 --> 00:02:01,382 Everything in America is racist. 37 00:02:01,382 --> 00:02:02,202 No, no shit. 38 00:02:02,202 --> 00:02:07,042 Like to me, that's such an easy thing to understand. 39 00:02:07,042 --> 00:02:07,862 Right. 40 00:02:08,062 --> 00:02:12,522 And the no part of me is ready for a person to go. 41 00:02:12,522 --> 00:02:14,642 Well, I think it is. 42 00:02:14,642 --> 00:02:16,602 Well, I wait. 43 00:02:16,603 --> 00:02:17,613 just telling you. 44 00:02:17,613 --> 00:02:24,875 I was informing you and then for some man, imagine and like we do this. 45 00:02:24,875 --> 00:02:35,798 So also there's the other element of like I show up on camera every week and I'm telling you, hey this because of my skin and because it doesn't, it likes the lighter colors. 46 00:02:35,939 --> 00:02:41,380 Well it's- and then he would be like well and now I'd be like well I'm never telling you anything. 47 00:02:41,380 --> 00:02:43,966 I'm sure you notice as a content creator but like when 48 00:02:43,966 --> 00:02:53,956 when we react in a strange way to people's questions and they don't understand that like, this is not the first time we're getting that question, you know, like I know that when 49 00:02:53,956 --> 00:02:55,657 people are competency. 50 00:02:55,658 --> 00:03:07,878 And like, I've never, have never really understood that until I started criticizing the skinny white woman of America and they were like, no, no, you're not from here. 51 00:03:07,878 --> 00:03:11,298 was like, we will always find a way to kick you out. 52 00:03:11,558 --> 00:03:13,538 And you know what I talk about? 53 00:03:13,538 --> 00:03:17,938 I talk about the Harvey seven major cities of the world. 54 00:03:17,938 --> 00:03:20,398 And I've never been to the Amazon, right? 55 00:03:20,758 --> 00:03:21,778 Like, but 56 00:03:22,218 --> 00:03:35,898 It had, I had always just written this off as like ignorant Americans and I like since I, in high school where they would be like, oh do you have a loin cloth? 57 00:03:35,898 --> 00:03:38,898 Like, oh what's the Amazon like? 58 00:03:38,918 --> 00:03:44,898 And it's just like, I didn't realize how deep that was going for people. 59 00:03:44,898 --> 00:03:49,998 Well the thing about whiteness and also it's like the ER, the hard ER can go for y'all too. 60 00:03:49,998 --> 00:03:51,198 I have said this before like. 61 00:03:51,198 --> 00:03:57,280 someone's younger, there's harder, faster, they're more like the foreigner, right? 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,442 If you're not from here, you should shut up. 63 00:04:01,702 --> 00:04:03,238 You're not from here. 64 00:04:03,238 --> 00:04:06,303 And like, that's another thing I had to learn. 65 00:04:06,303 --> 00:04:12,825 Like I had to learn that I as a white woman should not ask people with accents where they're from. 66 00:04:12,905 --> 00:04:16,826 Because when white Americans do that, it's usually a bad thing. 67 00:04:16,894 --> 00:04:20,326 And I just thought it was a fascinating thing because I'm not from here either. 68 00:04:20,326 --> 00:04:23,688 And I like to meet people that are from other places and I'm fascinated. 69 00:04:23,688 --> 00:04:29,481 Like, if you tell me you're from France, I'm more interested in talking to you than if you're just a regular white American. 70 00:04:29,481 --> 00:04:35,606 But I really eventually started seeing like, the discomfort that would come over people's faces. 71 00:04:35,606 --> 00:04:37,511 And Europeans sometimes won't play along. 72 00:04:37,511 --> 00:04:39,128 They'll be like, I'm from Detroit. 73 00:04:39,328 --> 00:04:40,350 you know, they just won't. 74 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:41,991 Which is fair. 75 00:04:41,991 --> 00:04:42,891 But 76 00:04:42,899 --> 00:04:53,982 And so one of the things that I've learned is that I will introduce that I am a spicy white person that came from other places first and then let people bring it up on their 77 00:04:53,982 --> 00:04:58,199 own so that they're not having that like fear. 78 00:04:58,199 --> 00:05:07,556 It's like also the rhetorical questions and like the way why people ask questions I've realized when you said like, it's like they're testing you anyway. 79 00:05:07,556 --> 00:05:11,027 Even all the questions are, you speak another language? 80 00:05:11,027 --> 00:05:11,947 What is it? 81 00:05:11,947 --> 00:05:12,587 Go. 82 00:05:12,587 --> 00:05:24,287 Prove it to me now that you just said if I tell you camera lenses are racist Why would I then have to prove that to you instead of you find that interesting? 83 00:05:24,287 --> 00:05:26,407 Let me go look up and find out more about it. 84 00:05:26,407 --> 00:05:32,367 Also, why would you not think the proof is because she's been black her whole life, right? 85 00:05:32,607 --> 00:05:35,307 And your dad's a photographer 86 00:05:35,308 --> 00:05:45,868 He made up a whole lens with his last name on it by the way, but then like a you know digital took over and all of that there's a whole bunch to it, but like He should want to 87 00:05:45,868 --> 00:05:54,868 ask himself then yeah, why Why did you feel like I need to go find a white man's source that agrees with her because what what were you gonna find? 88 00:05:54,868 --> 00:06:04,668 is the thing that someone just connected for me about sources Because you know, we both have this we don't do citations online and just for those who are new 89 00:06:04,820 --> 00:06:15,147 That's because there's a specific form of trolling specifically femme creators, which is just asking for citations. 90 00:06:15,467 --> 00:06:18,079 And then, so I made another video about why I don't do it. 91 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:20,941 And somebody was like, yeah, because you're the expert. 92 00:06:20,941 --> 00:06:27,095 Like you are the citation, but what they're saying is go find a place where a white man wrote it down and show me. 93 00:06:27,095 --> 00:06:27,956 Right. 94 00:06:27,956 --> 00:06:34,088 When I, when I dared to push back on John Brown is, was a white savior. 95 00:06:34,088 --> 00:06:36,770 They said, well, where's your source for that? 96 00:06:36,771 --> 00:06:37,932 Have you seen outside? 97 00:06:37,932 --> 00:06:39,223 Has racism been solved? 98 00:06:39,223 --> 00:06:45,078 Because I'm pretty sure you're now currently asking me why I have the nerve to say the abolition. 99 00:06:45,078 --> 00:06:48,223 Also, abolitionist doesn't mean anti-racist. 100 00:06:48,223 --> 00:06:50,733 It just means anti-owning other people. 101 00:06:50,733 --> 00:06:55,306 But they don't necessarily think that Black people and white people are doesn't mean have to be equal. 102 00:06:55,306 --> 00:06:56,307 I mean. 103 00:06:56,309 --> 00:06:58,680 John Brown still had black people in the back standing up. 104 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,653 Lincoln famously said, I could save the union and keep slavery, I would. 105 00:07:02,653 --> 00:07:03,763 Right. 106 00:07:03,763 --> 00:07:05,674 And he goes down as- He doesn't even abolition. 107 00:07:05,674 --> 00:07:07,080 As the hero. 108 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:13,923 But if you can't get to the, why do I need more proof than what I am looking at and hearing? 109 00:07:14,204 --> 00:07:17,265 Then it doesn't matter what you find. 110 00:07:17,265 --> 00:07:21,388 It really doesn't because I just told you it's racist. 111 00:07:21,389 --> 00:07:22,690 There you go. 112 00:07:22,690 --> 00:07:24,600 If you look online, what if it's just me? 113 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,603 What if you just Google it and it's me talking about it again? 114 00:07:27,603 --> 00:07:30,045 Did I tell you, by the way, that that's one of the things I'm doing? 115 00:07:30,045 --> 00:07:39,040 So we the survivors of Children of God cannot put that Jeremy Spencer of Fleetwood Mac was a pedophile because he hasn't been convicted. 116 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,852 And because the Wikipedia editors who are Fleetwood Mac fans, they will delete everything. 117 00:07:45,413 --> 00:07:46,875 So guess what I put in this book? 118 00:07:46,875 --> 00:07:51,157 And guess who now has a citation for that man being an abusive piece of shit? 119 00:07:51,157 --> 00:07:51,678 Right. 120 00:07:51,678 --> 00:07:52,919 Because I can't just write it. 121 00:07:52,919 --> 00:07:54,979 I can't be the citation. 122 00:07:54,980 --> 00:07:59,022 But now because I've published it in a book, the written word. 123 00:07:59,022 --> 00:08:01,103 Well, see, and that's the truth. 124 00:08:01,103 --> 00:08:03,193 And then it's like, well, do you need that? 125 00:08:03,193 --> 00:08:03,543 Right. 126 00:08:03,543 --> 00:08:05,654 Why do you need they shouldn't need that? 127 00:08:05,654 --> 00:08:07,275 You saying it should be enough. 128 00:08:07,275 --> 00:08:07,495 Right. 129 00:08:07,495 --> 00:08:09,236 And it should get the word out there. 130 00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:09,982 Is it? 131 00:08:09,982 --> 00:08:12,522 But someone will say, I don't know. 132 00:08:12,522 --> 00:08:13,342 Let me look it up. 133 00:08:13,342 --> 00:08:19,102 And then they'll go look it up and it'll be literally all the time, people literally come to me and they say, oh yeah? 134 00:08:19,102 --> 00:08:21,202 So why is it not in his Wikipedia page? 135 00:08:21,202 --> 00:08:21,902 Exactly. 136 00:08:21,902 --> 00:08:22,842 so that's the white. 137 00:08:22,842 --> 00:08:28,742 There are 400 pages on the internet of accusations of pedophilia against this man. 138 00:08:28,742 --> 00:08:30,362 400 pages. 139 00:08:30,362 --> 00:08:31,142 don't believe. 140 00:08:31,142 --> 00:08:33,522 And that's where it comes back to the same thing. 141 00:08:33,522 --> 00:08:37,003 If you are questioning, why are you questioning? 142 00:08:37,263 --> 00:08:38,783 Who are you questioning? 143 00:08:38,835 --> 00:08:43,075 When do you choose to go, I don't know if I believe that. 144 00:08:43,335 --> 00:08:45,415 And what makes you believe it? 145 00:08:45,415 --> 00:08:49,515 A random webpage with a lot of like popular, popularity? 146 00:08:49,516 --> 00:08:52,256 A popular opinion is the good opinion? 147 00:08:52,257 --> 00:08:52,936 I don't know. 148 00:08:52,936 --> 00:08:54,057 Does it make sense? 149 00:08:54,057 --> 00:08:57,837 Does it make sense to your ears that cameras would be racist? 150 00:08:57,837 --> 00:09:04,538 And it's also, when we talk about the citation, of course you're the one that taught me about this, but it's like, 151 00:09:04,538 --> 00:09:10,438 sometimes the stuff doesn't get written down because of who was in the room. 152 00:09:10,438 --> 00:09:12,978 So in- It makes the wrong people look bad. 153 00:09:12,978 --> 00:09:23,518 In Uncultured, I have this one story where like, I'm trying to give you the heads up that this Colonel is a creep who's a sexist jerk, who's going to be a sexist jerk. 154 00:09:23,858 --> 00:09:30,394 So there's this one story at my promotion ceremony where he says to my mom, he says, oh, 155 00:09:30,394 --> 00:09:32,914 you look too young to have 14 kids. 156 00:09:32,914 --> 00:09:35,154 How old were you 14? 157 00:09:35,154 --> 00:09:39,134 And she just looks at him and she goes, yeah, that was Daniela. 158 00:09:39,135 --> 00:09:50,955 And every in the process of creating the book, every single woman, probably 15 different women, women who read this literally would leave a note saying what a creep. 159 00:09:51,275 --> 00:09:59,551 But when I tell you that like, I, I know for 1000 % fact that a male editor would have been like, 160 00:09:59,552 --> 00:10:00,283 I don't get this. 161 00:10:00,283 --> 00:10:00,773 Exactly. 162 00:10:00,773 --> 00:10:01,614 What's the problem? 163 00:10:01,614 --> 00:10:06,637 And how much time do we want to spend proving to that man who probably does that creepy? 164 00:10:06,637 --> 00:10:08,758 But and then that's my point. 165 00:10:08,758 --> 00:10:11,150 It was like I that was my one. 166 00:10:11,150 --> 00:10:13,411 was like, I don't I don't care how much money I offer. 167 00:10:13,411 --> 00:10:14,162 I'm offered. 168 00:10:14,162 --> 00:10:19,515 I will not work with a male editor because I won't actually be able to tell my story. 169 00:10:19,515 --> 00:10:19,996 Right. 170 00:10:19,996 --> 00:10:28,191 They will actually I do not have the strength to tell this story and also convince a man. 171 00:10:28,503 --> 00:10:30,363 that this was sexism. 172 00:10:30,823 --> 00:10:38,323 You know, and it's like, so you're not even going to end up making the arguments. 173 00:10:38,323 --> 00:10:38,483 Right. 174 00:10:38,483 --> 00:10:41,883 You don't even bring it into if I had been like, come on. 175 00:10:41,883 --> 00:10:42,343 Right. 176 00:10:42,343 --> 00:10:43,003 Cameras. 177 00:10:43,003 --> 00:10:43,883 And that's what I said. 178 00:10:43,883 --> 00:10:52,503 That's why said that's why this is such a good podcast or format or whatever, because you just accept what I'm saying. 179 00:10:52,503 --> 00:10:56,604 just, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, And you're not going to go, oh. 180 00:10:56,605 --> 00:10:58,056 Cause then you'll never see me again. 181 00:10:58,056 --> 00:11:03,019 And not cause you're a bad person, not cause whatever, but now I have to defend myself? 182 00:11:03,019 --> 00:11:04,920 Defend myself? 183 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:11,082 I brought myself to this conversation and I'm thinking, la la la la la, I'm just telling you something. 184 00:11:11,082 --> 00:11:15,264 And the second you make me defend myself now, we're in war? 185 00:11:15,264 --> 00:11:16,645 Defense? 186 00:11:16,685 --> 00:11:17,585 Allies? 187 00:11:17,585 --> 00:11:19,226 Where did this white people stuff? 188 00:11:19,226 --> 00:11:22,547 It's like the second someone goes like, I don't want to be in the middle guys. 189 00:11:22,547 --> 00:11:24,293 Oh, in the middle. 190 00:11:24,293 --> 00:11:25,614 I love this actually. 191 00:11:25,614 --> 00:11:26,485 What's happening? 192 00:11:26,485 --> 00:11:29,116 This is one of my cult coats. 193 00:11:29,117 --> 00:11:32,860 It's like fruity pebbles inside of the yarn. 194 00:11:32,860 --> 00:11:36,262 Yeah, so it just comes like that. 195 00:11:36,263 --> 00:11:38,885 Okay, sorry I get distracted. 196 00:11:38,885 --> 00:11:42,153 Normally I just have my own stuff to play with. 197 00:11:42,153 --> 00:11:44,394 So I gotta make Rebecca a cult coat. 198 00:11:44,394 --> 00:11:45,296 Yeah. 199 00:11:45,296 --> 00:11:47,797 It's got little surprises inside. 200 00:11:48,338 --> 00:11:49,180 I'm excited. 201 00:11:49,180 --> 00:12:00,116 Yeah, yeah, but it makes me realize also like I have this element of the white half of me that's like I should be able to have conversations and say things and whatever because I'm 202 00:12:00,116 --> 00:12:12,933 so used to people accepting the things I'm saying that makes sense that they make sense and I'm not like wait do I have to but like you said that whole having a man in the room 203 00:12:13,251 --> 00:12:14,383 how much that changes everything. 204 00:12:14,383 --> 00:12:18,212 And that's why when white people walk into rooms, you have to acknowledge your whiteness. 205 00:12:18,212 --> 00:12:20,094 Bring your whiteness with you. 206 00:12:20,097 --> 00:12:31,604 I was telling you Christina before we started that I think that the new book I'm writing in all American fascism is like the whitest book ever Yeah, basically going from the 207 00:12:31,604 --> 00:12:32,424 Puritans. 208 00:12:32,424 --> 00:12:47,002 I mean it's about through all of American culture because my my thesis is basically that I know the Puritans and Then I was dropped in 2000 evangelical, Texas and those are 209 00:12:47,144 --> 00:12:48,424 those are the same people. 210 00:12:48,424 --> 00:12:50,764 Yeah, it didn't. 211 00:12:50,764 --> 00:12:54,304 And I don't know if you've heard this before, but we talked about this a lot. 212 00:12:54,524 --> 00:13:01,644 There's a phrase that the Puritans, the whole Puritan religion was the fear that someone somewhere is having fun. 213 00:13:01,645 --> 00:13:05,385 And that is how I have always felt about white America. 214 00:13:05,385 --> 00:13:14,746 Like, the first time I went to a college party, and I was just like, there, there's no event, we just 215 00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:19,157 stand around and drink until the cops come. 216 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:21,332 I don't get it. 217 00:13:21,332 --> 00:13:22,745 Ew. 218 00:13:22,745 --> 00:13:28,174 And I feel like one of the things that white American culture hates is fun. 219 00:13:28,175 --> 00:13:37,655 And it, this is what I've been telling you where it's like, I have a chapter, I think it's chapter 10, that I have called it the rebellion of joy. 220 00:13:37,656 --> 00:13:51,456 But it's like, I, what I really want to do is teach white is like show white women how joy was like surgically removed from white color. 221 00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:54,676 Yeah, they literally look at me and go, I wish I could wear that. 222 00:13:54,676 --> 00:13:56,156 I wish I could wear. 223 00:13:56,241 --> 00:14:00,825 I I could wear a color that is accessible to me. 224 00:14:00,825 --> 00:14:04,868 have money and mobility and freedom and no consequences if I do it. 225 00:14:04,868 --> 00:14:10,016 And to me, it's that similar to, I don't believe, right? 226 00:14:10,016 --> 00:14:20,540 It's like, you're creating your own mind prison and then telling everybody how sad you are that you're in your mind prison. 227 00:14:20,901 --> 00:14:25,174 You can stop telling people and then you can stop being in it. 228 00:14:25,174 --> 00:14:28,666 but also, or just be in it, I don't know. 229 00:14:28,666 --> 00:14:33,610 But when you say it out loud, I'm like, what do you mean? 230 00:14:33,610 --> 00:14:35,038 But that's the... 231 00:14:35,038 --> 00:14:48,267 And what happened to This is where I think the relationship with white women and black women is so weird because I think there's this deep seated jealousy. 232 00:14:48,268 --> 00:14:51,069 that isn't a result of. 233 00:14:51,070 --> 00:15:01,693 Like, well, because you are excluded from white culture, you now have the freedom to choose joy, to choose color, to choose all of that. 234 00:15:01,693 --> 00:15:02,254 Yeah. 235 00:15:02,254 --> 00:15:07,779 And you don't get to do that and be 236 00:15:07,780 --> 00:15:09,020 also a basic white girl. 237 00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:18,804 Accepted or whatever your idea of accepted is because you're not it's like because the second you start to you laugh a little too loud then all of a sudden it's like you want 238 00:15:18,804 --> 00:15:20,105 attention? 239 00:15:20,245 --> 00:15:25,426 That's and that's kind of been my whole experience in white America. 240 00:15:25,607 --> 00:15:34,549 It's like okay I'm gonna make myself small yeah but then I actually get in that space and I can't do it and then it's like you're not a real white person. 241 00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:35,790 But no one is. 242 00:15:35,790 --> 00:15:38,253 It's not even real. 243 00:15:38,253 --> 00:15:42,185 I mean, it's, it's the exact same thing in the military, right? 244 00:15:42,185 --> 00:15:46,829 Where like, when I, I was serving in a segregated by gender military, right? 245 00:15:46,829 --> 00:15:51,662 So they have regulations and laws that say women can't do these things. 246 00:15:51,662 --> 00:15:59,948 And so it was a regular topic of conversation to just be like, Oh, can women be in the military, even though we were there being in the military, right? 247 00:15:59,948 --> 00:16:01,779 Should women be in the military? 248 00:16:01,813 --> 00:16:03,684 And they'd be like, well, women can't blah, blah. 249 00:16:03,684 --> 00:16:06,596 And then they would look at me and go, well, not, you, ma'am. 250 00:16:06,596 --> 00:16:11,418 And then immediately they would start telling me how I'm not a real woman. 251 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:13,640 They'd be like, you're not, you're not really a woman. 252 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,421 You're, you're kind of like, I was called a man girl. 253 00:16:16,811 --> 00:16:19,633 like, you're not like one of the black, you're not like those black people. 254 00:16:19,633 --> 00:16:21,064 You're, you're one of the good ones. 255 00:16:21,064 --> 00:16:24,726 You're one of the, it was like the N words are like N words. 256 00:16:24,726 --> 00:16:30,739 You're like, you know, at the same time that I was working so hard to look like 257 00:16:30,987 --> 00:16:32,457 basic Barbie. 258 00:16:32,458 --> 00:16:36,680 I was also trying so hard to fight the sexism. 259 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,880 And you can't do those. 260 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:49,923 You can't do both of those because men really don't want to be beat on a run by Barbie or in the push ups, you know, and so then they're like, no, you're not a immediately you're 261 00:16:49,923 --> 00:16:50,713 not a real woman. 262 00:16:50,713 --> 00:17:00,006 Yeah, pick me and I picked and they're the ones who should because they're doing it for the guys and then the guys don't want that they want someone they can take down. 263 00:17:00,208 --> 00:17:01,499 Let me not generalize. 264 00:17:01,499 --> 00:17:10,276 But if it's about domination, they want to be feeling successful by taking someone and making them something else. 265 00:17:10,276 --> 00:17:14,338 But it involves this action, smaller, closer, and controlled. 266 00:17:14,338 --> 00:17:16,851 it's like, well, that's what whiteness is. 267 00:17:16,851 --> 00:17:24,756 It's just controlled, spotless records and spotless clean slates and blank canvases and boring. 268 00:17:24,756 --> 00:17:26,648 And like, Boring. 269 00:17:26,648 --> 00:17:27,403 uh 270 00:17:27,403 --> 00:17:29,053 But I don't know that anyone's enjoying it. 271 00:17:29,053 --> 00:17:31,114 And it makes me just think about the bear cups. 272 00:17:31,114 --> 00:17:32,675 Have you heard about these bear cups? 273 00:17:32,675 --> 00:17:34,325 They're glass cups. 274 00:17:34,325 --> 00:17:34,715 no. 275 00:17:34,715 --> 00:17:35,875 Yeah, from Starbucks. 276 00:17:35,875 --> 00:17:36,495 Yeah. 277 00:17:36,495 --> 00:17:40,376 I'm thinking about bear cups, horse bags, sheep's clothing. 278 00:17:40,376 --> 00:17:41,257 That's like my new thing. 279 00:17:41,257 --> 00:17:42,517 I'm obsessed. 280 00:17:42,517 --> 00:17:50,919 Because it's something for, I don't know that there's actual joy there, but when you have nothing, you have consumerism. 281 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:53,200 Horse bags as in the Hermes bags. 282 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,400 Apparently they're all horse related. 283 00:17:55,412 --> 00:17:57,593 because being a horse girl is an identity. 284 00:17:57,593 --> 00:18:05,516 And then you want the chance to be offered the opportunity to spend thousands of dollars on a bag. 285 00:18:05,516 --> 00:18:08,327 And they're like, I got the chance to get a bag. 286 00:18:08,327 --> 00:18:13,499 And you just have to get this bag that they offer you in gloves with gloves. 287 00:18:13,499 --> 00:18:16,499 And they refer to them as her, which I think is weird. 288 00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:20,702 Her, look at her with the gloves and you don't get your... 289 00:18:21,123 --> 00:18:24,405 It was giving me the what in the white people look? 290 00:18:24,405 --> 00:18:36,090 Yeah, and there's like this whole world of I've just dug into it Hermes where it's there It's fascinating but the barricups are like a small version of that Do you know I'm not 291 00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:48,265 sure if it was this bag but it was some bag where Oprah was at a wedding in Europe and she asked to see a like $30,000 bag and refused It's it's not exact. 292 00:18:48,265 --> 00:18:49,075 It's Hermes 293 00:18:49,075 --> 00:18:51,377 And she was like, are the horsebacks. 294 00:18:51,377 --> 00:18:53,459 I'm Oprah. 295 00:18:53,459 --> 00:18:55,781 And you cannot like. 296 00:18:55,781 --> 00:18:58,342 That was good for their business. 297 00:18:58,343 --> 00:18:59,104 What's her name? 298 00:18:59,104 --> 00:18:59,664 D. 299 00:18:59,664 --> 00:19:01,746 Black actress who's a Violet. 300 00:19:01,746 --> 00:19:02,096 Violet. 301 00:19:02,096 --> 00:19:03,787 Violet Davis. 302 00:19:03,808 --> 00:19:11,994 And she in one of her speeches talked about how like, no matter how famous I get, I still have a black son. 303 00:19:11,994 --> 00:19:12,385 Yeah. 304 00:19:12,385 --> 00:19:15,147 You know, my son is still just a black man in America. 305 00:19:15,147 --> 00:19:18,008 Yeah, there's always a bottom rung and. 306 00:19:18,008 --> 00:19:19,648 and you're always black. 307 00:19:19,648 --> 00:19:25,128 But then when we said like, and that's fine, but you're always white too, white people. 308 00:19:25,128 --> 00:19:26,688 Like they like to do this race list. 309 00:19:26,688 --> 00:19:35,388 Like, well, but when you walk into the room, like I said, with the, we did the panel and I realized like ideally, conceptually, I was fine. 310 00:19:35,388 --> 00:19:37,768 I trust you, you were doing the thing. 311 00:19:37,768 --> 00:19:38,868 All right, probably gonna be fine. 312 00:19:38,868 --> 00:19:47,563 But then I see all these white people on the screen and I, and then I was like, oh, and I couldn't help it regardless, but cause my senses said. 313 00:19:47,563 --> 00:19:50,305 you've learned some things girl that we don't know. 314 00:19:50,305 --> 00:19:54,067 And as I'm like, uh-oh, I'm introducing myself as why we whisper. 315 00:19:54,067 --> 00:20:01,843 And yes, I relief as soon as I realized these people know who I am, meaning they understand where I'm coming from, at least. 316 00:20:01,843 --> 00:20:03,213 I don't know. 317 00:20:03,214 --> 00:20:05,859 But even still, it's like, what was I nervous about? 318 00:20:05,859 --> 00:20:06,926 I can always just leave. 319 00:20:06,926 --> 00:20:15,282 But also with the, I care, you know, it's just such a think it's knowing that you're coming into 320 00:20:15,914 --> 00:20:25,822 Fight versus knowing that you're coming into somewhere where they're gonna accept those are different and listen and by the way, I came up with the thing when Because now I'm 321 00:20:25,822 --> 00:20:30,587 getting it from a bunch of white people that go come on Just everything have to be about race and I just started going. 322 00:20:30,587 --> 00:20:32,149 were you not white when that happened? 323 00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:41,389 Exactly does it have to be are you only sometimes white is that so are you are you only offended when I bring it up? 324 00:20:41,389 --> 00:20:54,656 you're saying like it didn't exist at all until i just said it and you're like whoa hold on race and if so that's a delusion and i'm not here for supporting delusions that's 325 00:20:54,656 --> 00:21:05,026 harmful to me and i mean we've talked about this before but i i think this is where like people who have been privileged 326 00:21:05,026 --> 00:21:12,128 have a thing in their mind that like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn, but there's like a line or something. 327 00:21:12,128 --> 00:21:15,542 And they don't understand that it's like, no, it's in, it's in everything. 328 00:21:15,542 --> 00:21:20,104 Like everything is, it's like a different, everything is processed. 329 00:21:20,104 --> 00:21:22,155 that is the world in which we live. 330 00:21:22,155 --> 00:21:26,707 You know, like to me, it is still so insane that we don't have a Negro rights amendment. 331 00:21:26,707 --> 00:21:32,450 Like women are literally I thought you said a Negro rights amendment. 332 00:21:32,452 --> 00:21:34,113 I'm sorry. 333 00:21:34,113 --> 00:21:35,873 That's not what she said. 334 00:21:36,114 --> 00:21:37,264 An equal rights amendment. 335 00:21:37,264 --> 00:21:37,994 Got it, got it. 336 00:21:37,994 --> 00:21:39,235 Well, I don't know. 337 00:21:39,235 --> 00:21:49,479 I don't know if I'm here for equal or rights because I feel like they, where did these white people come in to be like, all right, here are the rights of the people. 338 00:21:49,479 --> 00:21:51,820 I feel like I've been obsessed with this phrase in my head. 339 00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:53,981 It's like bra and war. 340 00:21:53,981 --> 00:21:56,983 It's like rights are white and whites are right. 341 00:21:56,983 --> 00:22:00,914 And, but what if you guys got out of here? 342 00:22:01,364 --> 00:22:08,244 we would all be fine and we'd be like, yeah, people, humans, we don't need rules. 343 00:22:08,245 --> 00:22:10,325 By you? 344 00:22:10,326 --> 00:22:14,446 There was some joke, I think it's just a joke. 345 00:22:14,446 --> 00:22:24,086 I don't know if it was on TV or something, but it was like, someone traveled to the future, two, 300 years in the future and like, the world is great. 346 00:22:24,166 --> 00:22:25,426 Everything's lovely. 347 00:22:25,426 --> 00:22:27,806 And they're like, what happened? 348 00:22:27,806 --> 00:22:30,347 And they're like, oh, Jesus, the Christians were right. 349 00:22:30,347 --> 00:22:31,908 And Jesus came back. 350 00:22:31,908 --> 00:22:34,546 And they're like, oh, so this is paradise? 351 00:22:34,546 --> 00:22:37,311 They're like, no, he just took all the Christians. 352 00:22:37,311 --> 00:22:38,402 now everything's fine. 353 00:22:38,402 --> 00:22:52,319 So I'm saying, like, if you guys, like, the fact that you could just put, then the Europeans came at the end of any story, and it would be like, dun, dun, you wouldn't be 354 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:55,201 like, and then everything was fine. 355 00:22:55,201 --> 00:22:57,412 No, guys, chill. 356 00:22:57,431 --> 00:23:07,997 And I also think like maybe we are at the beginning of realizing that like Maybe the European descendants don't need to be in charge of anything anymore. 357 00:23:07,997 --> 00:23:14,782 You know, like maybe the The data's I've had this conversation a lot especially around Graham Plattner. 358 00:23:14,782 --> 00:23:21,108 He's running for Senate in Senate or Congress in Maine one of them and 359 00:23:21,108 --> 00:23:26,360 And it keeps coming up the, but do we give people a chance to change? 360 00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:29,102 Yeah, but maybe they don't need a Senate seat right away. 361 00:23:29,102 --> 00:23:30,623 oh I say no. 362 00:23:30,623 --> 00:23:31,723 You want to ask me? 363 00:23:31,723 --> 00:23:33,704 we see those are rhetorical questions. 364 00:23:33,704 --> 00:23:35,706 I don't like white people asking questions. 365 00:23:35,706 --> 00:23:36,686 But doesn't he? 366 00:23:36,686 --> 00:23:39,767 I don't like how you're asking me that because it sounds like you already decided. 367 00:23:39,767 --> 00:23:41,169 Doesn't he have a right to? 368 00:23:41,169 --> 00:23:42,810 I don't think people change, actually. 369 00:23:42,810 --> 00:23:45,091 I think people learn things. 370 00:23:45,575 --> 00:23:57,016 It's one of the things that I'm seeing a lot in the ex cult world where white men and white women who joined cults, they get out of the cult, but they still have not 371 00:23:57,016 --> 00:24:00,710 deconstructed the idea that they deserve a leadership position. 372 00:24:00,710 --> 00:24:01,971 Oh, yeah. 373 00:24:01,971 --> 00:24:05,734 And so all they want to do is come into the ex cult world. 374 00:24:05,734 --> 00:24:06,935 That's what that's what I mean. 375 00:24:06,935 --> 00:24:10,374 The you know, I will say I was not 376 00:24:10,374 --> 00:24:17,158 I was 0 % surprised when Steve Hassan started doing undeconstructed cult uncle things in public. 377 00:24:17,158 --> 00:24:19,119 I was like, yup, that. 378 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,341 You always sort of gave, well I'm better. 379 00:24:21,341 --> 00:24:23,503 Here's the thing, he an old white man. 380 00:24:23,503 --> 00:24:32,989 You know, and I remember something Taylor Swift did before, like before all this, there was an issue with it and I had said, well, you know, she's a famous blonde white woman. 381 00:24:33,449 --> 00:24:35,086 At certain point we got a 382 00:24:35,086 --> 00:24:40,169 We can still be surprised, but also not shocked or reverse, whichever one. 383 00:24:40,509 --> 00:24:46,493 But like, yeah, and he's been told he's so smart and he's an expert and he's got expertise and people go to him. 384 00:24:46,493 --> 00:24:50,676 That affects your brain and your ability to take in new information. 385 00:24:50,676 --> 00:24:53,097 And he was always a white man. 386 00:24:53,097 --> 00:24:58,201 If he had, he wasn't undoctrinating from whiteness at all, in my opinion. 387 00:24:58,201 --> 00:25:00,837 I thought, I think he was there doing his expertise. 388 00:25:00,837 --> 00:25:02,078 which is a white people thing. 389 00:25:02,078 --> 00:25:13,924 then like, I'm always thinking from cults that much either, you know, but that like, I have become now to where like, I'm not that interested in reading your cult book, if you 390 00:25:13,924 --> 00:25:15,476 haven't been out for a decade. 391 00:25:15,476 --> 00:25:19,087 Because I just, you're not gonna have deconstructed enough. 392 00:25:19,087 --> 00:25:20,688 Because then it's just what happened. 393 00:25:20,688 --> 00:25:26,101 It's not really doing much in terms of moving conversations or change. 394 00:25:26,101 --> 00:25:28,082 It's just like, this is mine. 395 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:38,473 And I also think, you know, so even when we started this podcast, like, I really thought I was a lot more deconstructed of racism than I was. 396 00:25:38,473 --> 00:25:38,973 Yeah. 397 00:25:38,973 --> 00:25:39,753 Yeah. 398 00:25:39,753 --> 00:25:47,637 And I really think that was a little white girl silly to think that we were doing this as like an equal partnership thing. 399 00:25:47,637 --> 00:25:50,318 Well, it is just not in the white way. 400 00:25:50,318 --> 00:25:51,398 Programming, though. 401 00:25:51,398 --> 00:25:55,959 That's the like, I have been taught absolutely my whole life. 402 00:25:56,085 --> 00:25:57,977 you show up and be Katniss Everdeen. 403 00:25:57,977 --> 00:26:03,401 Yeah, you come and save the day and provide and display for everybody this is how you do it. 404 00:26:03,401 --> 00:26:06,700 No, no, we're just gonna figure it out as we go. 405 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:08,192 We're just gonna talk and see. 406 00:26:08,192 --> 00:26:18,635 you know, to me, that's the whole thing is that you are open to it and you saw that I knew what I was talking about and you wanted to know what, and I was like, this is good because 407 00:26:18,635 --> 00:26:21,366 she not gonna say, what do I think? 408 00:26:21,588 --> 00:26:27,343 think that maybe it's not about race, because I have curly hair, and people touch my hair. 409 00:26:27,358 --> 00:26:28,665 Oh my gosh. 410 00:26:28,665 --> 00:26:35,971 Whether that's true or not, I'm sure you've seen the white girls trying to weigh in on Michelle Obama talking about curly hair. 411 00:26:35,972 --> 00:26:36,554 Why? 412 00:26:36,554 --> 00:26:37,874 Why are they? 413 00:26:38,015 --> 00:26:39,326 I was about to ask a stupid question. 414 00:26:39,326 --> 00:26:40,397 Why are they talking? 415 00:26:40,397 --> 00:26:43,960 I don't even feel like I've seen the white girls talking about it. 416 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,882 I've seen black women going. 417 00:26:47,095 --> 00:26:50,835 Oh my gosh, white women, the natural hair conversation is not free. 418 00:26:50,835 --> 00:26:51,855 Stop. 419 00:26:52,335 --> 00:26:56,755 And I just shook my head because I know exactly. 420 00:26:56,756 --> 00:27:02,156 Oh, they say just so far, you know, little appropriation of which they speak. 421 00:27:02,156 --> 00:27:04,296 Yeah, because I'll say I have curl. 422 00:27:04,297 --> 00:27:09,256 But it's one of those things that there's a difference between being excited. 423 00:27:09,256 --> 00:27:15,511 and not knowing how much you don't know and wanting to lead a conversation and tell people what they should do. 424 00:27:15,511 --> 00:27:25,209 And I also think there's a level of understanding that like I have very curly hair and I have been given shit for my curly hair, right? 425 00:27:25,209 --> 00:27:27,611 Like I live in a world where straight hair is better. 426 00:27:27,611 --> 00:27:28,602 I've been given shit for it. 427 00:27:28,602 --> 00:27:33,526 I've been told my hair is not professional, but it's not the same as how you're treated. 428 00:27:33,526 --> 00:27:38,296 No, but anyway, anti-blackness that you get treated that way, you know, and 429 00:27:38,296 --> 00:27:42,496 If it weren't for anti-blackness, then there would be curly hair understanding. 430 00:27:42,496 --> 00:27:48,236 Oh, what we were speaking of before, because I will get asked, are you sure you're not Jewish? 431 00:27:48,237 --> 00:27:50,437 About my hair, quite often. 432 00:27:50,437 --> 00:27:51,077 But OK. 433 00:27:51,077 --> 00:27:53,417 It might also have to do with my Jewish first name. 434 00:27:53,577 --> 00:27:55,037 maybe. 435 00:27:55,217 --> 00:27:56,477 My mom has curly hair too. 436 00:27:56,477 --> 00:28:01,477 And like I used to hate her for having, not hate her at all, but I didn't like that she had curly hair. 437 00:28:01,477 --> 00:28:03,369 you know, like if. 438 00:28:03,369 --> 00:28:10,709 there wasn't anti-blackness at the root because whenever people have that conversation, I talk about having my hair being touched, whether or not you have curly hair and you have 439 00:28:10,709 --> 00:28:14,350 the same experience, that changes nothing about what I said. 440 00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:21,210 And it's because of anti-blackness and the entitlement to white people touching other people that maybe it would happen to you. 441 00:28:21,210 --> 00:28:26,730 My friend Caroline has gorgeous curls and she said, I'm gonna say no one has ever touched my hair without asking. 442 00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:30,990 And to me, it was so nice to have her say that to me because I could tell she was. 443 00:28:31,035 --> 00:28:33,287 She could tell that I've had people say that to me. 444 00:28:33,287 --> 00:28:36,900 But, well, they touch my hair too. 445 00:28:36,901 --> 00:28:38,962 All right, well, I'm never talking to you again. 446 00:28:39,203 --> 00:28:45,028 Because why are you telling me that like you're informing me that now I have to change my opinion on the fact that it's because I'm black? 447 00:28:45,028 --> 00:28:51,553 If only white people do it and it feels dehumanizing, is that not enough information? 448 00:28:51,553 --> 00:28:56,277 Can you not take that and then go, well, me, I, it, okay. 449 00:28:56,277 --> 00:28:58,528 All right, girl, well. 450 00:28:58,529 --> 00:29:00,229 Guess who's never talking to you again. 451 00:29:00,229 --> 00:29:01,709 guess, I am so screwed this time. 452 00:29:01,709 --> 00:29:02,289 Okay, what's up? 453 00:29:02,289 --> 00:29:06,289 Someone tried it with me with the circle exercise. 454 00:29:06,289 --> 00:29:08,829 I talked to you about what I want to do at the Knitten. 455 00:29:08,829 --> 00:29:09,489 Oh yeah, yeah. 456 00:29:09,489 --> 00:29:17,869 You know, they make circles with 50 people and then put the most marginalized people in the center and yeah, exercise for community assessing and somebody was like, well, 457 00:29:17,869 --> 00:29:21,029 pregnant people, pregnant women should be in the center. 458 00:29:21,349 --> 00:29:26,349 I was like, okay, we're to talk about this because which pregnant women? 459 00:29:26,350 --> 00:29:27,704 I... 460 00:29:27,704 --> 00:29:32,225 As a pregnant white lady was never at more risk than a black man. 461 00:29:32,225 --> 00:29:33,876 Right. 462 00:29:33,876 --> 00:29:39,205 So it's like, and you have black pregnant women and trans pregnant women and immigrant pregnant women. 463 00:29:39,205 --> 00:29:39,927 Right. 464 00:29:39,927 --> 00:29:43,697 Like you have so many different categories. 465 00:29:43,697 --> 00:29:45,939 The zombie apocalypse of it all. 466 00:29:45,939 --> 00:29:52,891 There's always a character that once she gets pregnant, everything changes in the story. 467 00:29:52,891 --> 00:29:57,082 She's pregnant and everybody's operates around the white. 468 00:29:57,082 --> 00:30:04,088 pregnant person, she's always white, and she's even in this world, she's gonna have a baby and that's what we care about now. 469 00:30:04,088 --> 00:30:08,752 And I don't know, cause y'all don't care about the babies. 470 00:30:08,793 --> 00:30:10,474 Like, what about once the baby is born? 471 00:30:10,474 --> 00:30:23,085 It's just this body that has an unspecified, we can speak for now this woman isn't a woman, she is a vessel holding, I just, why do y'all do this when we're talking about 472 00:30:23,085 --> 00:30:24,326 something else? 473 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,107 But that's why, I don't know, it's just like you're having a baby before you're even born. 474 00:30:29,107 --> 00:30:35,316 And that's where I think like the concept of misogynoir is very important and needs to be talked about more. 475 00:30:35,316 --> 00:30:35,997 Yeah. 476 00:30:35,997 --> 00:30:38,110 Because I do think that like... 477 00:30:38,111 --> 00:30:49,234 you know, to be fair, I will say like, think it comes from a good place of trying to empathize and trying to commiserate and just not having the understanding that like, and 478 00:30:49,234 --> 00:30:51,925 also never faced racism. 479 00:30:51,925 --> 00:30:57,917 Yeah, you know, sometimes the commiserate you don't know what it's like when you try to relate to someone. 480 00:30:58,117 --> 00:30:58,817 Maybe they don't. 481 00:30:58,817 --> 00:31:00,768 That's not what they were looking for. 482 00:31:00,768 --> 00:31:02,142 They were informing you. 483 00:31:02,142 --> 00:31:04,782 and you're going, no, and you're coming closer. 484 00:31:04,782 --> 00:31:05,542 I don't know. 485 00:31:05,542 --> 00:31:06,602 think we have to be. 486 00:31:06,602 --> 00:31:06,982 Yeah. 487 00:31:06,982 --> 00:31:07,442 have to be careful. 488 00:31:07,442 --> 00:31:18,862 also makes me think that like, maybe the problem is we've been taught to relate by finding a similarity instead of just by understanding that you can understand a different person. 489 00:31:18,862 --> 00:31:19,202 Right. 490 00:31:19,202 --> 00:31:23,602 And that's I was thinking about what you were saying about us coming together in this podcast. 491 00:31:23,602 --> 00:31:28,982 It's like we're we're 50 50, but I don't know. 492 00:31:28,982 --> 00:31:30,002 I hope it zooms out. 493 00:31:30,002 --> 00:31:31,682 You know how sometimes anyway. 494 00:31:31,683 --> 00:31:33,943 We bring different things. 495 00:31:33,943 --> 00:31:47,483 You bring the structure and always doing stuff and the regularity and the pushing and the white privilege part and I bring the black people ancestral knowledge and that is 496 00:31:47,483 --> 00:31:47,883 valuable. 497 00:31:47,883 --> 00:31:50,723 It makes sure I don't have to do more. 498 00:31:50,803 --> 00:31:57,357 I don't have to argue with you about I would say not for nothing and also I understand being a white woman. 499 00:31:57,357 --> 00:32:07,481 So I think there's a lot of times that I learn something from you and then I'm like, oh, that relates to this and this and this and this and every once in while it's a thing you 500 00:32:07,481 --> 00:32:08,531 don't know. 501 00:32:08,592 --> 00:32:15,726 I like learning white people's stuff, know, white lady stuff, but you don't know it's white lady stuff until I say until we have the conversation. 502 00:32:15,726 --> 00:32:18,877 And then I'm like, that's weird. 503 00:32:18,877 --> 00:32:25,271 And, I know that a lot of the so some people just listen to us and some people watch and I know there's a lot that 504 00:32:25,271 --> 00:32:36,441 like Christina will talk about my facial expressions and it's like I'm taking it in and it informs how I understand myself though too but it's like that's what listening is it's not 505 00:32:36,441 --> 00:32:48,353 always going I understand this because I have it different and now I have white people just do a lot of talking they everything's in the words and in the Wikipedia's and in the 506 00:32:48,353 --> 00:32:49,764 proof and then 507 00:32:49,765 --> 00:32:54,049 I'm proving to you that I understand what you said by repeating it back to you. 508 00:32:54,050 --> 00:33:00,616 Please stop the regurgitating and like, well, see, I do think you're a person. 509 00:33:01,098 --> 00:33:02,058 What? 510 00:33:02,059 --> 00:33:02,781 I didn't know. 511 00:33:02,781 --> 00:33:03,348 no, no, no. 512 00:33:03,348 --> 00:33:04,290 I'm on your side. 513 00:33:04,290 --> 00:33:05,431 on your side. 514 00:33:05,432 --> 00:33:06,153 my side? 515 00:33:06,153 --> 00:33:07,334 Am I fighting? 516 00:33:07,334 --> 00:33:11,657 Who's so, you know, so just like taking it down a couple notches. 517 00:33:11,657 --> 00:33:19,114 Similarity is such a weird thing that I don't value because I'm just like, so we do the same thing and talk about the same thing. 518 00:33:19,114 --> 00:33:31,084 character energy of like, and you know, like for me, this has been a thing of like, because I don't fit, I've always felt like I got to present my credentials at the door and 519 00:33:31,084 --> 00:33:31,755 like, prove. 520 00:33:31,755 --> 00:33:37,495 that I fit and part of, also think it's a neurodivergent thing to be like, oh, I know what you're talking about. 521 00:33:37,495 --> 00:33:39,915 Let me tell you this story about my life. 522 00:33:39,916 --> 00:33:44,256 But I also think white women do it more than anyone else. 523 00:33:44,256 --> 00:33:47,016 Yeah, because also you don't have consequences for it. 524 00:33:47,016 --> 00:33:48,096 You're going to do it. 525 00:33:48,096 --> 00:33:52,636 then like, so say things happen, to be honest, Today, and it got weird. 526 00:33:52,996 --> 00:33:54,336 Like, Christina is not going say nothing. 527 00:33:54,336 --> 00:33:55,496 I'm not going to say nothing. 528 00:33:55,496 --> 00:33:56,576 It would just happen. 529 00:33:56,576 --> 00:33:58,476 Luckily, nothing has happened. 530 00:33:58,892 --> 00:34:01,324 We would just wait till later and talk about it amongst ourselves. 531 00:34:01,324 --> 00:34:02,255 You would never know. 532 00:34:02,255 --> 00:34:05,869 If someone shares something with you, that is a blessing and a gift. 533 00:34:05,869 --> 00:34:08,902 And that's how I view this type of stuff. 534 00:34:08,902 --> 00:34:15,709 so then for, imagine I share it and you go, okay, that'll give us even more to talk about. 535 00:34:15,709 --> 00:34:18,582 And so I try to just, I'm just trying to share with people. 536 00:34:18,582 --> 00:34:22,306 And so that's why I get so shocked when people are like, I agree, but. 537 00:34:22,307 --> 00:34:23,618 okay, you agree. 538 00:34:23,618 --> 00:34:27,459 if a man, if a man, I'll just start with that. 539 00:34:27,459 --> 00:34:31,961 If a man ever said some something like what white people would say to me. 540 00:34:31,962 --> 00:34:35,904 You would hear it differently and that's fine. 541 00:34:35,904 --> 00:34:38,785 Would you be mad at a man trying his best? 542 00:34:38,786 --> 00:34:41,607 As I said that one, maybe, maybe. 543 00:34:41,607 --> 00:34:42,708 But you know what I mean? 544 00:34:42,708 --> 00:34:43,709 But he loved him. 545 00:34:43,709 --> 00:34:47,390 I don't think anyone is mad at the people trying their best. 546 00:34:47,866 --> 00:34:54,612 But what I have learned and what the Taylor Swift of it all taught me is everybody's not trying their best. 547 00:34:54,612 --> 00:34:55,592 Yeah. 548 00:34:56,033 --> 00:34:56,973 Yeah. 549 00:34:57,194 --> 00:35:05,421 And but see, but now that you know that when people are, it's like, you wouldn't yell at them if they're trying their best. 550 00:35:05,421 --> 00:35:08,323 There's a clear delineation whether they know it or not. 551 00:35:08,323 --> 00:35:16,888 And I think sometimes though, where white people mess up is they'll come in and give benefit of the doubt to people that I could tell are in that phase. 552 00:35:16,888 --> 00:35:25,263 And now you're on their side going, I'm on your side, blah, blah, blah, blah, just believing me the first time and being on my side and advocating for me. 553 00:35:25,263 --> 00:35:34,868 And if I tell you that the camera lens has racist backgrounds, you not gonna say, I'm gonna go look that up. 554 00:35:34,869 --> 00:35:41,945 You know, and question when you do, or you have that feeling and go, why did I, why would I do that? 555 00:35:41,945 --> 00:35:43,156 That's so strange. 556 00:35:43,156 --> 00:35:44,146 Like what? 557 00:35:44,596 --> 00:35:45,376 prompted me. 558 00:35:45,376 --> 00:35:50,236 That was the, you know, still one of the best tips I was ever given. 559 00:35:50,236 --> 00:35:53,956 I was just saying before we started this, because you give me, you teach me so much. 560 00:35:53,956 --> 00:35:57,296 But it was just like someone, a black friend, he said, just be curious. 561 00:35:57,297 --> 00:35:59,737 Pay attention to when you're surprised. 562 00:35:59,738 --> 00:36:00,398 Yeah. 563 00:36:00,398 --> 00:36:07,958 Because that's, you know, because it was this, it was this guy was interviewing during 2020 on an old podcast, and he had five black sons. 564 00:36:07,958 --> 00:36:11,823 And when he said that, I was like, I'm so afraid. 565 00:36:11,823 --> 00:36:13,543 I was so afraid for you in my heart. 566 00:36:13,543 --> 00:36:16,443 Like I know that that is dainty, you know? 567 00:36:16,443 --> 00:36:19,743 And one of questions I asked him at the end, was like, what do you want? 568 00:36:19,923 --> 00:36:21,723 What do you want from the good white people? 569 00:36:21,723 --> 00:36:27,003 You know, and he was like, don't, don't be surprised that my son wants to be an astronaut. 570 00:36:27,003 --> 00:36:27,543 Yeah. 571 00:36:27,543 --> 00:36:39,423 No, don't, don't look at my kids in hoodies and think anything other than what you think about your kids in a hoodie, you know, it's like it, and it was just because there's no 572 00:36:39,423 --> 00:36:41,546 way you can know your 573 00:36:41,546 --> 00:36:42,967 unconscious bias. 574 00:36:42,967 --> 00:36:48,972 I think the only way you can know your unconscious bias is when you are surprised. 575 00:36:49,393 --> 00:36:53,156 And when you are like, I don't have any unconscious biases. 576 00:36:53,156 --> 00:36:56,059 I mean, that's not how unconscious works. 577 00:36:56,059 --> 00:37:00,163 were Christina a hair tie that was about this big. 578 00:37:00,163 --> 00:37:01,964 And she was really nice about it. 579 00:37:01,964 --> 00:37:04,386 And I was like, I feel really stupid right now. 580 00:37:04,386 --> 00:37:08,089 Because I didn't think about this, you know, that like 581 00:37:08,197 --> 00:37:10,378 But she didn't think you were stupid, you know? 582 00:37:10,378 --> 00:37:12,998 She just thought, I'ma wear it as a bracelet. 583 00:37:12,998 --> 00:37:15,559 so you ain't got time for all that, you know? 584 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:21,682 I realized the unconscious thing, like, I hadn't even thought of Anne even as a white woman with big hair. 585 00:37:21,682 --> 00:37:23,152 I hadn't thought about it that much. 586 00:37:23,152 --> 00:37:26,563 Now that I've made those big ones, those are the ones I use the most, too. 587 00:37:26,563 --> 00:37:29,894 But it was like just a thing you would never think of. 588 00:37:29,894 --> 00:37:30,234 Right. 589 00:37:30,234 --> 00:37:31,845 And that's exciting to find those. 590 00:37:31,845 --> 00:37:37,002 I think that's how we should look at weirdest thing for me about people is 591 00:37:37,002 --> 00:37:43,462 And that's where I say like, one of the things I'm learning is to stop giving people the benefit of the doubt. 592 00:37:43,662 --> 00:37:48,242 Because because I want to understand this so much. 593 00:37:48,242 --> 00:37:49,822 And I want to not do this. 594 00:37:49,822 --> 00:37:50,642 Yeah. 595 00:37:50,642 --> 00:37:54,842 I just think that other people are the same. 596 00:37:55,162 --> 00:38:03,622 Yeah, what I've really found is that for men with sexism and for white women with racism, it's I'll go so far. 597 00:38:03,622 --> 00:38:04,258 But 598 00:38:04,491 --> 00:38:08,931 Yeah, and pushing back on them is usually how you know. 599 00:38:08,931 --> 00:38:11,411 To me, it's like, that's my benefit of the doubt. 600 00:38:11,411 --> 00:38:13,411 I'll give you a what? 601 00:38:13,711 --> 00:38:18,191 And what you respond to that tells me all I need to know. 602 00:38:18,191 --> 00:38:27,891 If I go, huh, I would just give a good huh or a red flag and you could say, oh, clearly I, let me or nothing. 603 00:38:27,891 --> 00:38:31,453 But if someone goes, what, just because you, huh, huh, huh, what? 604 00:38:31,453 --> 00:38:32,534 That tells me enough. 605 00:38:32,534 --> 00:38:39,698 And that's the other thing that I really want white women to realize is like, you're gonna fuck up. 606 00:38:40,039 --> 00:38:40,699 You are. 607 00:38:40,699 --> 00:38:43,281 And then it's about how you respond. 608 00:38:43,281 --> 00:38:46,953 And like, you remember the Kataji Brown Jackson thing? 609 00:38:46,953 --> 00:38:47,654 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 610 00:38:47,654 --> 00:38:48,064 Yeah. 611 00:38:48,064 --> 00:38:50,386 Like, I felt about two inches tall. 612 00:38:50,386 --> 00:38:53,067 That was not a pleasant experience. 613 00:38:53,255 --> 00:38:58,797 And I just literally remember standing there going, you don't walk away, you remember this and you learn, you know? 614 00:38:58,797 --> 00:38:59,117 Yeah. 615 00:38:59,117 --> 00:39:00,448 And you do better the next time. 616 00:39:00,448 --> 00:39:00,918 Yeah. 617 00:39:00,918 --> 00:39:02,239 And that's it. 618 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,489 And now it's a story. 619 00:39:03,489 --> 00:39:03,800 it. 620 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:04,440 Yeah. 621 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,860 It's just a story for you. 622 00:39:05,860 --> 00:39:11,963 But you have full rights to not share and you share it and like literally nothing's going to happen to you. 623 00:39:12,123 --> 00:39:22,047 Black women don't have the time, right, to spend a lot of effort on you making a well-intentioned mistake or whatever. 624 00:39:22,247 --> 00:39:23,709 We know what's harmful and what's not. 625 00:39:23,709 --> 00:39:27,353 I'm not gonna spend our time making sure you feel bad. 626 00:39:27,554 --> 00:39:29,797 What is you feeling bad gonna do for me? 627 00:39:29,797 --> 00:39:32,159 But there's something about... 628 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,952 the assuming the good intentions. 629 00:39:35,033 --> 00:39:40,978 Because that was my thing with Taylor Swift for very long time where I was like, 630 00:39:41,339 --> 00:39:50,579 what if she's me basically, you know, like what if she is a blonde white woman that can't help being a blonde white woman who's trying to do, to do her best, but she's also a 631 00:39:50,579 --> 00:39:51,879 public person. 632 00:39:51,879 --> 00:39:58,999 But she's not you, you know, that is what I realized that I was like, but she's not doing the work. 633 00:39:58,999 --> 00:40:02,279 Like she's not right. 634 00:40:02,279 --> 00:40:05,159 There's no actual reason for it anymore. 635 00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:07,644 And of course I know that 636 00:40:07,644 --> 00:40:14,606 But that's why I'm saying there's something deeper to it, because that was stopping me from listening to people who were calling her out. 637 00:40:14,606 --> 00:40:15,566 Yeah. 638 00:40:15,726 --> 00:40:17,937 Well, and that's natural, right? 639 00:40:17,937 --> 00:40:22,468 You like someone, you don't want to believe they do things that are harmful. 640 00:40:22,468 --> 00:40:25,388 Yeah, and I'm the same way. 641 00:40:25,389 --> 00:40:31,360 There's been people online where they, I'm just like, we all have the same intentions here. 642 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,211 Let's all meet up and blah, blah, blah, not realizing like. 643 00:40:35,211 --> 00:40:41,194 I should, I'm kind of responsible for what I, who I host and do all of that. 644 00:40:41,194 --> 00:40:42,784 And I'm just like, we're doing the same thing. 645 00:40:42,784 --> 00:40:45,355 I'm projecting my intentions onto them. 646 00:40:45,836 --> 00:40:55,639 So then I was like, they just kind of happen to be using this platform or using this because it works for the time and diversity is interesting. 647 00:40:55,980 --> 00:41:00,352 And that's what me and I had to just be like, well, my bad. 648 00:41:00,352 --> 00:41:02,623 Cause I do think like after the corporation. 649 00:41:02,623 --> 00:41:03,239 uh 650 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,290 You believed the white women when they were knitting the pink hats. 651 00:41:06,290 --> 00:41:10,982 Yeah, my mom, my mom, my mom crocheted some pink hats. 652 00:41:10,982 --> 00:41:15,534 You know, she set up on some meetings and she was very gung-ho for it. 653 00:41:15,534 --> 00:41:23,727 I believed in her and I still do, but because she's still listening to me, I do think there are women who meant well and believed what they were saying, but there were some 654 00:41:23,727 --> 00:41:25,258 that just wanted to be seen outside. 655 00:41:25,258 --> 00:41:30,390 And so I'm like, okay, well, I don't know what to do about that now. 656 00:41:30,390 --> 00:41:32,551 Just keep moving forward and... 657 00:41:32,552 --> 00:41:36,045 Hope I have more discernment next time, but yeah. 658 00:41:36,045 --> 00:41:36,636 Yeah. 659 00:41:36,636 --> 00:41:37,337 What can you do? 660 00:41:37,337 --> 00:41:49,498 Well, you know, I'm finally toward the end of this white women book that I've been reading and I found the reason that I've been reading it. 661 00:41:49,618 --> 00:41:53,822 And she basically says like, as white women. 662 00:41:53,823 --> 00:41:57,855 we can be dangerous because we haven't deconstructed white supremacy. 663 00:41:57,855 --> 00:42:05,051 So we're dangerous to everyone who's not white around us, or we can deconstruct white supremacy and then be dangerous to white supremacy. 664 00:42:05,051 --> 00:42:07,534 But we are going to be dangerous either way. 665 00:42:07,534 --> 00:42:15,661 And I think that is, it's like, it's not neutral to not do the anti-racism work. 666 00:42:15,661 --> 00:42:17,952 Inaction is an action. 667 00:42:18,542 --> 00:42:27,949 Not doing something not speaking about things is a choice It's a negative choice, but that's what's similar to like negative peace and negative solidarity. 668 00:42:27,949 --> 00:42:37,866 That's all toxic positivity to me So I was gonna say, don't know if you know this line, but of course you don't but Taylor Swift literally has a line that says I've never heard 669 00:42:37,866 --> 00:42:45,142 silence quite this loud and This is what millions of her followers have been saying right now. 670 00:42:45,142 --> 00:42:46,102 It's like 671 00:42:46,103 --> 00:42:56,569 Of course you don't have to say anything ever but like why would you not want to why would you not she's talking about being a dude not calling her back is what she's talking about 672 00:42:56,569 --> 00:43:06,403 right like like if it's her version of if he wanted to he would kind of sorry I wasn't I forgot but a lot of people are like it's really poignant that Taylor Swift's fans are 673 00:43:06,403 --> 00:43:13,096 using her own lines against her right now because she's being so That's I was thinking if people want to get out of a cult 674 00:43:13,132 --> 00:43:24,058 It seems like what I'm seeing as the common denominator of a lot of people, even like with you, not, we know Swifties aren't a cult, uh but leaving an ideology or seeing something 675 00:43:24,058 --> 00:43:30,902 is when the charismatic or whoever person or the document or text lies. 676 00:43:31,022 --> 00:43:34,474 When I think the CES letter with Mormons and stuff, I don't know. 677 00:43:34,474 --> 00:43:41,278 I think that's like direct information from the leader or like about the leader specifically lying. 678 00:43:41,355 --> 00:43:48,768 that usually seems to be like the, well, if they lie, now I can kind of question this other thing. 679 00:43:48,768 --> 00:43:49,787 Maybe that was a lie. 680 00:43:49,787 --> 00:43:58,951 Maybe that was like, versus let me give you some stats about it or- That's what was interesting for me in all this because I was like, this is actually confirmed for me even 681 00:43:58,951 --> 00:44:09,846 more that it was an ideology and not a cult, but also that you can have a crack in an ideology that isn't total. 682 00:44:09,846 --> 00:44:12,486 I wasn't, you know, I was not brainwashed by Taylor Swift. 683 00:44:12,486 --> 00:44:17,266 I've written two books, got a graduate degree, done a bunch of things like in this time. 684 00:44:17,266 --> 00:44:20,747 However, when people ask me, what did she do? 685 00:44:20,967 --> 00:44:24,587 I'm like, it's not about the racist line. 686 00:44:24,587 --> 00:44:30,387 That was the crack that made me realize, oh fuck, she's been lying to us for 20 years. 687 00:44:30,547 --> 00:44:34,927 She was a fake country accent when she put out her first album. 688 00:44:35,007 --> 00:44:35,627 Right? 689 00:44:35,807 --> 00:44:37,983 She's been lying to us this whole time. 690 00:44:37,983 --> 00:44:44,745 And I was like, I the way you describe it, it's just like, I just don't believe the world according to Taylor Swift anymore. 691 00:44:44,865 --> 00:44:47,576 And it's just like, it changed everything. 692 00:44:47,576 --> 00:44:51,267 Yeah, but it's not this one thing. 693 00:44:51,267 --> 00:44:53,718 And it's not I'm trying to be so careful how to talk about it. 694 00:44:53,718 --> 00:44:57,869 Because I also think there's a white woman tendency to be like, well, racism aside. 695 00:44:57,869 --> 00:45:00,860 it's like, well, yeah, you get big fucking deal. 696 00:45:00,860 --> 00:45:02,864 What's the the the I 697 00:45:02,864 --> 00:45:04,975 uh I would say racism wasn't my job. 698 00:45:04,975 --> 00:45:17,447 I'm trying to because also white women are trying to be like black women have asked us not to talk about this anymore and I'm just like but it's about me white women are saying 699 00:45:17,447 --> 00:45:25,363 White women are letting you know that black women have said shut up. 700 00:45:25,564 --> 00:45:30,527 That's interesting not true and we're not being 701 00:45:31,209 --> 00:45:37,715 But that's the other thing for me that has brought this up of people being like, well, the black women I'm seeing are saying it's not a big deal. 702 00:45:37,715 --> 00:45:41,999 And I've just, that made me realize like, how many do you need? 703 00:45:41,999 --> 00:45:43,290 I think it should be one. 704 00:45:43,290 --> 00:45:43,701 Right. 705 00:45:43,701 --> 00:45:49,265 And I think that's where it's like the crack happened for you is like you saw her as a white woman. 706 00:45:49,286 --> 00:45:55,010 And when a racism was brought up, you know how you would respond. 707 00:45:55,011 --> 00:45:56,862 And then she did not. 708 00:45:57,331 --> 00:46:00,902 or like how easy it would be to do something, anything. 709 00:46:01,143 --> 00:46:01,753 And she didn't. 710 00:46:01,753 --> 00:46:04,624 So that's enough to say, okay, huh. 711 00:46:04,625 --> 00:46:08,907 And then you can look into everything else and be like, oh, and she's a part of a system. 712 00:46:08,907 --> 00:46:09,527 And you can see it. 713 00:46:09,527 --> 00:46:10,287 Yeah. 714 00:46:10,287 --> 00:46:11,105 And she's a system. 715 00:46:11,105 --> 00:46:12,858 That's what's been interesting for me. 716 00:46:12,858 --> 00:46:21,862 Cause it's like, it's also in that way of like when you are in a cult or when you are in an ideology and then it cracks and you're no longer in it, you still fucking know 717 00:46:21,862 --> 00:46:22,872 everything about it. 718 00:46:22,872 --> 00:46:25,289 You know, like I immediately like, 719 00:46:25,289 --> 00:46:28,309 I know every single line she's ever sung. 720 00:46:28,329 --> 00:46:33,369 And so I can now go back through everything and be like, oh, fuck, that was problematic. 721 00:46:33,369 --> 00:46:43,789 oh, that was so in her in one of her first, you know, in her very first album, she has this line where she's like, you blah, blah, blah, I'll tell my friends you're gay. 722 00:46:43,869 --> 00:46:47,869 And she replaced that early on in her career, right. 723 00:46:47,869 --> 00:46:54,109 And this was such an interesting version of giving the benefit of the doubt, because I was like at the time, 724 00:46:54,205 --> 00:47:03,468 I think we were all like, yeah, many of us used that language in the early 2000s of being like, that's so gay or oh, whatever. 725 00:47:03,468 --> 00:47:04,148 Right. 726 00:47:04,148 --> 00:47:10,350 And if somebody like, I know I said, I know I said that when I was dropped into American culture, that's what people were saying. 727 00:47:10,350 --> 00:47:13,110 here's the thing. 728 00:47:13,111 --> 00:47:16,532 We, we were like, oh, we all did that. 729 00:47:16,532 --> 00:47:17,192 Right. 730 00:47:17,192 --> 00:47:20,839 But what she was doing wasn't saying that's so gay. 731 00:47:20,839 --> 00:47:27,373 she was saying, because you cheated on me, I'm going to go ruin your reputation with a lie. 732 00:47:27,373 --> 00:47:27,853 Yeah. 733 00:47:27,853 --> 00:47:28,184 Right? 734 00:47:28,184 --> 00:47:29,181 I'm going to tell people. 735 00:47:29,181 --> 00:47:31,015 That's what she was actually saying. 736 00:47:31,015 --> 00:47:35,858 I'm going to lie about you to ruin you socially because you did something that I don't like. 737 00:47:36,099 --> 00:47:39,761 And that's not something I would have looked past. 738 00:47:39,761 --> 00:47:40,442 I don't think. 739 00:47:40,442 --> 00:47:44,024 But because I was like, no, she's just like me. 740 00:47:44,024 --> 00:47:45,865 And I've said, that's okay. 741 00:47:45,970 --> 00:47:50,702 And I know that you really removed it from the, its origins. 742 00:47:50,702 --> 00:48:00,636 Like that's all I know what you were saying and you were giving a, but even though it's a gay thing, remember, Duff did a commercial like, see, that's, it's not nice to say that's 743 00:48:00,636 --> 00:48:01,537 so gay. 744 00:48:01,537 --> 00:48:03,257 I just remember the ad of like. 745 00:48:03,257 --> 00:48:04,918 So that's what I'm saying though. 746 00:48:04,918 --> 00:48:08,109 Like at that time, that's when she came back and changed the line, right? 747 00:48:08,109 --> 00:48:10,601 So everyone was like, yeah, okay, makes sense. 748 00:48:10,601 --> 00:48:13,102 I hope you don't mind if I say. 749 00:48:13,104 --> 00:48:15,555 It's but we didn't lazy. 750 00:48:15,555 --> 00:48:24,150 So because of that, like, and because we're all giving the benefit of the doubt and playing the devil's advocate, we didn't. 751 00:48:24,150 --> 00:48:33,025 But I also think it's that what I'm dealing with is the part of being a super fan is the over, you know, interpolation of yourself as the person. 752 00:48:33,025 --> 00:48:33,996 Yeah. 753 00:48:34,216 --> 00:48:36,201 And that is what 754 00:48:36,201 --> 00:48:46,901 That's been the hardest part for me is like because she is a little neurodivergent performing girl who's been out there in front of the world and I had been like I relate to 755 00:48:46,901 --> 00:48:59,681 these parts of you and so therefore I'm going to give you all the benefit of the doubt that I would Right that I would want I would want given to me, but but I'm not out there 756 00:48:59,681 --> 00:49:01,149 doing the things she's doing 757 00:49:01,149 --> 00:49:10,384 But I wonder if that is a result of an anti-identity for like the whiteness of, you know, the cult, like proving who you are, picking who you are, like pick a character, choose a 758 00:49:10,384 --> 00:49:14,316 character, because I've never identified with a person. 759 00:49:14,316 --> 00:49:15,687 It's also the hypothetical harm. 760 00:49:15,687 --> 00:49:21,320 What if someone were to come out with a note, a voice note of me saying that when I was 16? 761 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:22,269 How would I feel? 762 00:49:22,269 --> 00:49:24,352 Yeah, that's how white people protect each other. 763 00:49:24,352 --> 00:49:25,932 know, that's what they do in my comments, too. 764 00:49:25,932 --> 00:49:28,234 They're like, well, maybe she meant it like this. 765 00:49:28,234 --> 00:49:31,005 Like, you would never do this for each other. 766 00:49:31,338 --> 00:49:34,818 in the real world, you would never protect each other. 767 00:49:34,818 --> 00:49:39,478 But because you see that you could have made this comment, you say, well, I'm going to protect her. 768 00:49:39,478 --> 00:49:40,718 That's not community. 769 00:49:40,718 --> 00:49:42,958 That's just over identification. 770 00:49:42,958 --> 00:49:48,898 just wonder, I'm going to, do you ever feel like you've identified with a celebrity like that could be me? 771 00:49:48,899 --> 00:49:54,599 Christina's usually like, I can't tell if this is a neurodiversion thing or a normal people thing or a black people thing. 772 00:49:54,599 --> 00:49:57,019 It's like, I've never, you know what I mean? 773 00:49:57,019 --> 00:49:57,712 Where 774 00:49:57,712 --> 00:49:59,874 I've pretended to be a singer, right? 775 00:49:59,874 --> 00:50:02,472 But I've never been like a specific one. 776 00:50:02,472 --> 00:50:03,367 Even Beyonce. 777 00:50:03,367 --> 00:50:04,848 Beyonce is Beyonce. 778 00:50:04,848 --> 00:50:09,231 I don't think any black people think, identify with, that's interesting. 779 00:50:09,231 --> 00:50:10,162 I'm gonna be thinking about this. 780 00:50:10,162 --> 00:50:14,055 But just like in whiteness, there is an anti-identity as the first, right? 781 00:50:14,055 --> 00:50:18,269 Like, so you look to what you can be, career day, whatever. 782 00:50:18,269 --> 00:50:21,742 But when you're black, you just, everyone's, you can be one of a kind. 783 00:50:21,742 --> 00:50:23,733 You're not trying to be one in a million. 784 00:50:23,733 --> 00:50:27,376 know, that's why said about Taylor Swift is one in a million, Beyonce is one of a kind. 785 00:50:27,422 --> 00:50:29,042 And we can all be one of a kind. 786 00:50:29,042 --> 00:50:42,282 And think that comes back to like, I don't think we have the proper language for it yet, but like the way that white women feel like, I even think like I think about women are 787 00:50:42,282 --> 00:50:49,942 gorgeous, have amazing style and have so much confidence in being unique that I'm like, I wish that I had. 788 00:50:49,942 --> 00:50:53,526 And what I have to realize is 789 00:50:53,766 --> 00:50:54,957 I can't have that. 790 00:50:54,957 --> 00:50:56,459 I just have to develop it. 791 00:50:56,459 --> 00:51:01,313 It's just that you have been forced to develop it your whole life because you couldn't. 792 00:51:01,313 --> 00:51:09,461 And this is where I go with the skinny white woman and like the song I'm trying to work on right now for the musical is skinny skinny blonde woman. 793 00:51:09,461 --> 00:51:11,202 Me sort of going. 794 00:51:11,203 --> 00:51:23,598 I can be that and then trying to be it and and there's been have something written on Taylor Swift that has really helped me of saying like The problem with rep with talking 795 00:51:23,598 --> 00:51:30,890 about her as though she represents Girlhood is that that's a very specific sliver of girlhood. 796 00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:38,712 Yeah, and did she even that was what she's what she's Performing no, I don't think it's like it's not a real 797 00:51:39,004 --> 00:51:41,264 state of being at Gilmore Girls all over again. 798 00:51:41,264 --> 00:51:44,284 That's a fake place, know, doesn't exist. 799 00:51:44,284 --> 00:51:54,904 You know, I realized that when I was 18 and completely alone in the world with no identity and didn't know who to be, I was like, oh, I can be that. 800 00:51:54,904 --> 00:51:59,964 Yeah, but that's how they said you You were like, you never thought you could be Beyonce. 801 00:51:59,964 --> 00:52:02,904 No, I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna be. 802 00:52:02,944 --> 00:52:06,724 But I was like, oh, I can be that. 803 00:52:06,804 --> 00:52:08,668 I can make myself that. 804 00:52:08,668 --> 00:52:09,268 Yeah. 805 00:52:09,268 --> 00:52:14,188 And yeah, because she's also attainable because she's not that good, you know? 806 00:52:14,189 --> 00:52:14,549 Right. 807 00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:18,589 Because there's nothing like what actually sets you apart. 808 00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:18,929 Right. 809 00:52:18,929 --> 00:52:19,389 Right. 810 00:52:19,389 --> 00:52:21,189 And so you're like, can do that. 811 00:52:21,189 --> 00:52:25,809 Is and I and I think there is a that's why I say like the freedom. 812 00:52:25,809 --> 00:52:26,449 Yeah. 813 00:52:26,449 --> 00:52:26,929 Right. 814 00:52:26,929 --> 00:52:28,949 Like the opportunity is about right. 815 00:52:28,949 --> 00:52:35,655 It's like you could be anything versus you could have anything, which is what Taylor. 816 00:52:35,655 --> 00:52:45,961 offers but she doesn't have any like there are no is like it's even a thing i always say like i love going to europe because in europe like white women don't think their hair has 817 00:52:45,961 --> 00:52:55,857 to be perfect all of the time and that is something like where for me i was like no like it has to be my hair has to be perfect all of the time and just like having just like a 818 00:52:55,857 --> 00:53:03,111 messy braid was just like oh you can you can just choose you can just choose how 819 00:53:03,111 --> 00:53:05,341 ever you want to present yourself to the world. 820 00:53:05,341 --> 00:53:06,762 But you can do that here. 821 00:53:07,223 --> 00:53:13,155 Yeah, but that's where and again, this is where it comes down to this is where it comes down to the hierarchy. 822 00:53:13,155 --> 00:53:22,689 And this is where I think in casting the musical, it's going to be so interesting, like, who do you cast in the role of the person trying to be the skinny skinny blonde woman? 823 00:53:22,689 --> 00:53:31,318 Because, but and I've had also biracial women who were in the military say, like, oh, 824 00:53:31,318 --> 00:53:32,699 I was trying to be that too. 825 00:53:32,699 --> 00:53:34,030 Like I could never get there. 826 00:53:34,030 --> 00:53:36,001 Yeah. 827 00:53:36,001 --> 00:53:36,631 Yeah. 828 00:53:36,631 --> 00:53:38,112 But I'll get as close as possible. 829 00:53:38,112 --> 00:53:38,960 I'll do my best. 830 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,081 had straight hair with a blonde piece in the front. 831 00:53:41,081 --> 00:53:52,699 And I think that there is a freedom to knowing that you can't be Taylor Swift so you can be you. 832 00:53:52,699 --> 00:53:53,106 Yeah. 833 00:53:53,106 --> 00:53:54,794 But you don't know it as a freedom, right? 834 00:53:54,794 --> 00:54:00,622 Because that's why I'm like, I, the word is wrong because you are 835 00:54:00,622 --> 00:54:09,522 unique and individual because you've had to be because everything about the culture is telling you you're not the main character, you're not going to be this perfect person. 836 00:54:09,522 --> 00:54:15,102 Yeah, but that really is not freedom for the white women either. 837 00:54:15,102 --> 00:54:15,962 No, right. 838 00:54:15,962 --> 00:54:21,422 It's like, but because now your job is to try it, right. 839 00:54:21,422 --> 00:54:29,870 So that was the thing for me was it was like, now, because I can fit into the model. 840 00:54:29,870 --> 00:54:32,250 of that bland skinny white girl. 841 00:54:32,250 --> 00:54:34,250 Now I'm supposed to. 842 00:54:34,250 --> 00:54:38,790 And I'm supposed to work that hard all the time to be that. 843 00:54:38,790 --> 00:54:46,410 But silently, we don't want to hear you complain about it and just supposed to be grateful and smiling, but also serving all the time and suffering. 844 00:54:46,410 --> 00:54:48,050 like, with virtue. 845 00:54:48,050 --> 00:54:50,310 That is... 846 00:54:50,310 --> 00:54:56,790 I think this comes down to the heart of like what our ending part of the book is about. 847 00:54:56,790 --> 00:54:59,490 It's like, yeah, you did construct. 848 00:54:59,491 --> 00:55:00,492 whiteness, you are. 849 00:55:00,492 --> 00:55:03,332 You're gonna be kicked out of a lot of groups that you're in. 850 00:55:03,332 --> 00:55:04,232 are. 851 00:55:04,412 --> 00:55:06,092 Maybe you'll find community instead. 852 00:55:06,092 --> 00:55:06,772 Right. 853 00:55:06,772 --> 00:55:08,732 You'll find something real at least. 854 00:55:08,732 --> 00:55:15,732 You'll be something you can actually count on, not like something to count, you know, just like, oh, you're a member of this, you're a member of this. 855 00:55:15,732 --> 00:55:16,172 Cool. 856 00:55:16,172 --> 00:55:17,512 Who are you? 857 00:55:17,512 --> 00:55:19,932 I'm a member of this, I'm a member of this. 858 00:55:19,932 --> 00:55:21,652 That's not who you are. 859 00:55:21,652 --> 00:55:22,732 What do you mean? 860 00:55:22,732 --> 00:55:24,052 I'm a mom. 861 00:55:24,332 --> 00:55:25,512 That's weird. 862 00:55:25,512 --> 00:55:27,172 That's not an identity. 863 00:55:27,173 --> 00:55:34,733 I don't know, identity should be shifting and changing or whatever, I feel like whiteness is a label to perform and show and prove all the time. 864 00:55:34,733 --> 00:55:36,533 And it's a threat, you know? 865 00:55:36,533 --> 00:55:40,913 And it's like, yeah, I come back to the Puritans. 866 00:55:41,193 --> 00:55:49,213 The Puritans thing was if you are not exactly, they immediately set up a complete surveillance culture where everyone's watching everyone and reporting on everyone. 867 00:55:49,213 --> 00:55:51,573 That's called performative regulation. 868 00:55:51,693 --> 00:55:56,980 And if you were not like them, you got banished and they actually 869 00:55:56,980 --> 00:56:08,530 got really mad at their governor for letting people who were banished in the winter stay in town until the spring so that they didn't just immediately die. 870 00:56:08,660 --> 00:56:13,374 And it was like, no, if you're not exactly the same, we're going to kick you out. 871 00:56:13,374 --> 00:56:17,808 And I still I think that goes all the way through to white culture today. 872 00:56:17,808 --> 00:56:18,779 Absolutely. 873 00:56:18,779 --> 00:56:22,322 And that is something that I have experienced. 874 00:56:22,403 --> 00:56:23,924 And it's something that 875 00:56:24,236 --> 00:56:32,096 I have to deconstruct of like, why did I try so hard to be in those boring groups for so long? 876 00:56:32,096 --> 00:56:33,196 Because what are you doing? 877 00:56:33,196 --> 00:56:40,496 when it was so miserable for me instead of just, but it's that fear of being kicked out. 878 00:56:40,496 --> 00:56:41,336 they're selling you. 879 00:56:41,336 --> 00:56:43,876 That fear of being kicked out of the group, right? 880 00:56:43,876 --> 00:56:47,496 That's why people work so hard to stay in cults, even though they're miserable, right? 881 00:56:47,496 --> 00:56:53,440 Like when someone gets excommunicated from a cult or kicked out of a cult or banished because they're too different. 882 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,822 What always turns out is they were miserable the whole time. 883 00:56:56,822 --> 00:57:01,205 You were trying to fit in the whole effing time and you were miserable. 884 00:57:01,205 --> 00:57:07,685 But the lie that we are told is you should want to fit and to not stand out. 885 00:57:07,685 --> 00:57:08,630 eventually. 886 00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:11,833 Like safety is by blending into this group. 887 00:57:11,833 --> 00:57:13,594 And eventually it'll get better. 888 00:57:13,594 --> 00:57:16,736 Like this happily ever after whatever. 889 00:57:16,777 --> 00:57:19,438 Just you know then the book ends and don't worry about it. 890 00:57:19,438 --> 00:57:22,157 You'll retire and um then. 891 00:57:22,157 --> 00:57:26,437 fun, old, whatever, don't worry about it, just work again tomorrow. 892 00:57:26,437 --> 00:57:28,617 And it's fake, because it's actually not true. 893 00:57:28,617 --> 00:57:34,337 That's why I said narcissists look like another person and you have stuff in common with them or just because you're, you know, like. 894 00:57:34,337 --> 00:57:36,037 Similarity means so little. 895 00:57:36,037 --> 00:57:39,317 Like we are not similar, you and I. 896 00:57:39,317 --> 00:57:41,257 In some ways, sure, we have similarities. 897 00:57:41,257 --> 00:57:43,537 There are parts of connection. 898 00:57:43,537 --> 00:57:45,497 Yes, we're connected in our soul. 899 00:57:45,497 --> 00:57:46,597 We're humans. 900 00:57:46,597 --> 00:57:48,597 We don't need to find this other thing. 901 00:57:48,597 --> 00:57:51,777 We're like, okay, I can be around you because we both. 902 00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:54,562 Um, let's list out our, our things. 903 00:57:54,562 --> 00:58:00,156 It's just, you just have a common interest of talking about stuff and it's fine. 904 00:58:00,156 --> 00:58:04,569 We don't have to, you know, we and Christina are not similar. 905 00:58:04,569 --> 00:58:14,136 We were in a similar place, but it's like, that's why it's good because if we were both stressed about the same things, then I guess that's fine. 906 00:58:14,377 --> 00:58:20,313 But balance, like it should be a group is everyone has the similar goal, same. 907 00:58:20,313 --> 00:58:22,925 Interest same time same place same shirt. 908 00:58:22,925 --> 00:58:32,543 It just strikes me like that's a rule That is the rules that we are taught in whiteness, you know, and if you even think about it like it goes back to like, okay, so My husband 909 00:58:32,543 --> 00:58:40,289 and I are both white people and our child generally matches both of us You don't necessarily have that in black families, right? 910 00:58:40,289 --> 00:58:49,042 Yeah, you get all kinds of love from the beginning I think there's this concept that like it's okay to be different and in my culture that 911 00:58:49,042 --> 00:58:51,453 does not exist at all. 912 00:58:51,453 --> 00:58:55,055 goes all the way through everything. 913 00:58:55,055 --> 00:58:58,910 like, that, but it's boring. 914 00:58:58,910 --> 00:59:02,388 And like, my, think- Nothing, there's nothing happening. 915 00:59:02,388 --> 00:59:05,634 absolutely think the absolute best example of that is Mormon culture. 916 00:59:05,634 --> 00:59:05,894 Yeah. 917 00:59:05,894 --> 00:59:09,366 Where like everything is about them looking fucking perfect. 918 00:59:09,366 --> 00:59:14,751 And yet most plastic surgery, most behavioral medication. 919 00:59:14,751 --> 00:59:15,809 Oh, Mormons. 920 00:59:15,809 --> 00:59:23,771 And so that's the other thing when I talk about the bear cubs, I would think about them with the tank tops, because now their garments, I don't know if you saw, I just saw the 921 00:59:23,771 --> 00:59:36,724 wraparound lines for people getting really excited to purchase these new special underwear that so now they'll be able to wear tank tops in church when for however long it's been 922 00:59:36,724 --> 00:59:43,432 slaps, shoulders, just but the lines and the 923 00:59:43,432 --> 00:59:45,239 and the TikToks... 924 00:59:45,945 --> 00:59:48,316 Shoulders? 925 00:59:48,317 --> 00:59:50,058 Okay, all right. 926 00:59:50,059 --> 00:59:56,965 All right, and it's interesting to see people be like, okay, so forever now God was just like, nevermind, we can purchase them. 927 00:59:56,965 --> 01:00:03,871 My first reaction when this sort of came out about a year ago was I made a tank top that says it was never about the shoulders. 928 01:00:03,911 --> 01:00:05,894 It's just like, what? 929 01:00:05,894 --> 01:00:11,359 They do nothing, they're just smiling and nice and shallow, nice and numb, white, white. 930 01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:28,059 in Utah no coffee never like the whole thing about it never right I've never had coffee I've never never a black person never mixing all the nevers and it's like all right never 931 01:00:28,059 --> 01:00:40,095 neverland like that didn't go well either it's the it's the purity it comes back to which by the way like you don't have fascism without the concept of purity 932 01:00:40,095 --> 01:00:41,235 But like what is... 933 01:00:41,235 --> 01:00:43,675 What So much in this new book that I'm doing. 934 01:00:43,675 --> 01:00:44,595 Well, exactly. 935 01:00:44,595 --> 01:00:46,075 What is it? 936 01:00:46,075 --> 01:00:47,095 What is it? 937 01:00:47,095 --> 01:00:47,955 Nothing. 938 01:00:47,956 --> 01:00:49,556 Isn't purity nothing? 939 01:00:49,557 --> 01:00:50,837 But it's so... 940 01:00:50,837 --> 01:00:51,577 Yes. 941 01:00:51,577 --> 01:00:51,977 Right? 942 01:00:51,977 --> 01:00:53,237 It's like nothing is... 943 01:00:53,237 --> 01:00:56,117 It's the fear that someone, somewhere, someone is having fun. 944 01:00:56,117 --> 01:00:56,557 Yeah. 945 01:00:56,557 --> 01:00:58,817 Something was touched with a color. 946 01:00:58,818 --> 01:01:07,258 You know, and that has been part of also just such the interesting journey for me of like because I was able to... 947 01:01:07,299 --> 01:01:24,319 present as white blonde Barbie, it was also I also had the purity thing put on me super hard, which started to become very ironic to me toward the end of my military career, 948 01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:30,799 where I was like, because I could tell I was like, these, these criminals act like I'm their daughter, like, it's really creepy. 949 01:01:30,799 --> 01:01:34,139 There's this very like, she's a nice white girl. 950 01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:36,690 motherfucking sex cult, right? 951 01:01:36,690 --> 01:01:43,585 Like I am literally the farthest thing from a pure person. 952 01:01:43,585 --> 01:01:46,456 Yeah, but that they have confusing. 953 01:01:46,456 --> 01:01:57,772 Well, yeah, but it's but they're still growing about the thing about the purity and the thing why all cults have purity requirements, which is any any 954 01:01:57,773 --> 01:02:02,117 But like a binary, any absolute rule is a period. 955 01:02:02,117 --> 01:02:06,940 Any, we don't put this in our brains, our kids, our bodies, our anything. 956 01:02:06,940 --> 01:02:07,571 Right? 957 01:02:07,571 --> 01:02:09,873 Like that is a purity requirement. 958 01:02:09,873 --> 01:02:18,760 And it is intended to take one, take up all your time and two, to because you're never perfect enough. 959 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:19,441 Right. 960 01:02:19,441 --> 01:02:22,773 It's the exhaustion they need to exhaust you. 961 01:02:22,773 --> 01:02:27,427 when I came out of the curly girlness. 962 01:02:27,428 --> 01:02:35,445 And I was like, oh, I don't have to read the label on every single thing that I ever put on my hair. 963 01:02:35,445 --> 01:02:38,067 Like you went full curly girl method. 964 01:02:38,067 --> 01:02:39,077 I did. 965 01:02:39,338 --> 01:02:41,930 Did you ever go curly girl method? 966 01:02:41,930 --> 01:02:43,801 I don't think you never did. 967 01:02:43,922 --> 01:02:48,265 Where was like, no, no silicones, no parabens. 968 01:02:48,265 --> 01:02:49,916 But I know like, no, would know. 969 01:02:49,916 --> 01:02:54,421 That's the difference of like, there was the natural hair movement. 970 01:02:54,421 --> 01:02:55,332 And then 971 01:02:55,332 --> 01:02:57,305 uh white lady got involved. 972 01:02:57,305 --> 01:02:57,695 Yeah. 973 01:02:57,695 --> 01:02:57,966 Yeah. 974 01:02:57,966 --> 01:03:05,967 And it became you can't do like on the Facebook group I was a part of if you mention shampoo, you would be kicked out. 975 01:03:05,967 --> 01:03:09,711 You cannot even mention shampoo. 976 01:03:09,712 --> 01:03:11,592 Okay, sorry. 977 01:03:11,592 --> 01:03:23,932 I was like don't show up that was literally when I was just like gave it up and when I realized how much time I had back and how like much easier it is to just like that's 978 01:03:23,932 --> 01:03:24,132 crazy. 979 01:03:24,132 --> 01:03:28,912 Go visit somewhere or just like that and I was just like oh yeah, yep. 980 01:03:29,232 --> 01:03:32,932 was not, that was about the purity of it. 981 01:03:32,932 --> 01:03:38,612 It was about feeling better because you love your curls. 982 01:03:38,703 --> 01:03:42,483 you're better than other girls who are still straightening. 983 01:03:42,483 --> 01:03:43,663 Oh my God. 984 01:03:43,663 --> 01:03:45,683 They don't like anti-blackness. 985 01:03:45,683 --> 01:03:47,663 were like, ah, let's not question any of this. 986 01:03:47,663 --> 01:03:49,883 Let's just be leaders in curls. 987 01:03:49,883 --> 01:03:56,643 And they did not jump past it because there was a lot of white women that felt free to tell black women about how they felt about it. 988 01:03:56,643 --> 01:03:58,043 They actually said this. 989 01:03:58,043 --> 01:03:59,023 got bad. 990 01:03:59,023 --> 01:04:04,703 Like in the original Curly Girl book, there's almost section on how there's no such thing as black hair. 991 01:04:04,703 --> 01:04:05,883 It's just 4B. 992 01:04:05,883 --> 01:04:07,920 It is just, it is bad. 993 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:17,738 I love when they declare things you know you didn't you could have just you could they could have just shut up you could have just never admit talked about us leave us out of it 994 01:04:17,738 --> 01:04:30,899 because also right but it and that's where like when I realized that the actual thing about cults it's in the book they make you feel superior yeah I just say it's in the book 995 01:04:30,899 --> 01:04:31,729 she says 996 01:04:31,922 --> 01:04:33,843 Yeah, she's like, we don't we're all humans. 997 01:04:33,843 --> 01:04:35,844 We don't have different hair. 998 01:04:35,844 --> 01:04:42,627 Some people just have this and just like, oh, then she was doing the one a two. 999 01:04:42,627 --> 01:04:45,148 Oh, they love a rubric. 1000 01:04:45,148 --> 01:04:51,000 That makes so much sense because I have multiple curl types on my head like and I don't go by curl type. 1001 01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,391 I never have. 1002 01:04:52,391 --> 01:04:53,932 I go by all this feels. 1003 01:04:53,932 --> 01:04:54,773 And there was a book. 1004 01:04:54,773 --> 01:04:56,553 I remember being like, there's a book. 1005 01:04:56,733 --> 01:04:57,854 That's weird. 1006 01:04:58,109 --> 01:04:59,129 That's so upsetting. 1007 01:04:59,129 --> 01:05:01,030 I'm gonna be thinking about that for a while. 1008 01:05:01,030 --> 01:05:04,691 And the curly girl method is such an interesting phrase. 1009 01:05:04,691 --> 01:05:14,075 And this is what was interesting for me was like, I needed I needed to heal from the disease of thinking I was supposed to look like a blonde Barbie. 1010 01:05:14,075 --> 01:05:14,755 Yeah. 1011 01:05:14,755 --> 01:05:21,238 And so like, I needed to go through six years of like, I love my hair and like, 1012 01:05:21,238 --> 01:05:25,738 very, there was very specifically like my husband met me with the blonde blowout. 1013 01:05:25,738 --> 01:05:31,318 He loves the blonde blowout and I needed the empowerment of like, I'm doing this for me. 1014 01:05:31,318 --> 01:05:32,478 Men don't know what they want. 1015 01:05:32,478 --> 01:05:37,738 But it got so, it got so appropriative. 1016 01:05:37,739 --> 01:05:42,539 And, that's where I think that it's like, I want to show you a picture of me. 1017 01:05:42,539 --> 01:05:43,019 I don't know. 1018 01:05:43,019 --> 01:05:48,607 Like I really needed to divest from the male gaze, but that 1019 01:05:48,607 --> 01:05:54,887 what I found was a world where white women want to feel superior about their curls. 1020 01:05:55,187 --> 01:05:58,747 Yeah, because they don't know how to just chill and just do something. 1021 01:05:58,747 --> 01:06:03,787 This is me and Christina long time ago with our straight hair. 1022 01:06:03,788 --> 01:06:04,888 That's what you mean, Ashley. 1023 01:06:04,888 --> 01:06:06,908 You are so young. 1024 01:06:06,908 --> 01:06:09,728 And this was so funny about the formula, right? 1025 01:06:09,728 --> 01:06:15,708 So when I told my mom about the curly, you know, I was all in my evangelizing about it and blah, blah. 1026 01:06:15,708 --> 01:06:17,266 And she was like, OK, so tell me what 1027 01:06:17,266 --> 01:06:18,027 what products to get. 1028 01:06:18,027 --> 01:06:20,379 And I was like, Mom, you got to figure it out. 1029 01:06:20,379 --> 01:06:21,701 You got this, you got that. 1030 01:06:21,701 --> 01:06:25,284 And she was just like, I want a formula. 1031 01:06:25,284 --> 01:06:27,296 need the rubric and the instructions. 1032 01:06:27,296 --> 01:06:29,278 That was how I felt in the beginning. 1033 01:06:29,278 --> 01:06:32,451 And I was like, I need the exact instructions. 1034 01:06:32,452 --> 01:06:38,497 And just the concept of like, no, there's no like, life has no instructions. 1035 01:06:38,497 --> 01:06:40,459 You have to figure it out. 1036 01:06:40,460 --> 01:06:46,861 It's different like it just doesn't exist I'm like, what are you? 1037 01:06:46,861 --> 01:06:47,841 How does it come? 1038 01:06:47,841 --> 01:06:59,561 You know this goes all the way back to the Puritans right like the concept of there are many valid ways to live a life and this is why like I'm actually pretty angry that We have 1039 01:06:59,561 --> 01:07:06,188 been told this lie that they came to America to establish freedom of religion It was the exact opposite like it was like 1040 01:07:06,188 --> 01:07:11,788 They were literally coming to America so that they could control everybody. 1041 01:07:11,788 --> 01:07:13,628 Yeah, that was pretty up. 1042 01:07:13,628 --> 01:07:19,648 If you were at all different, you're going to be kicked out, which could be a death sentence. 1043 01:07:19,648 --> 01:07:20,688 How did they sell that to you? 1044 01:07:20,688 --> 01:07:22,508 They came here for freedom of religion. 1045 01:07:22,508 --> 01:07:23,968 Have you seen that? 1046 01:07:23,969 --> 01:07:24,489 Freedom of... 1047 01:07:24,489 --> 01:07:31,929 I don't know, maybe as a Jewish person going saying, it's the year 2025 since Jesus is born. 1048 01:07:31,931 --> 01:07:36,413 I wasn't ever aware that they thought freedom of religion was part of the thing. 1049 01:07:36,413 --> 01:07:38,094 We still keep the calendar. 1050 01:07:38,094 --> 01:07:42,597 Now do I know it's like 57, 80, I don't know what year it is in Jewish calendar. 1051 01:07:42,597 --> 01:07:46,260 My mom tells me every year, but like, they're lying. 1052 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:47,962 They've always been lying. 1053 01:07:47,962 --> 01:07:50,883 But also what are you seeing? 1054 01:07:51,004 --> 01:07:55,866 I feel like people want to, I want to encourage people to feel more. 1055 01:07:56,018 --> 01:07:56,678 What am I seeing? 1056 01:07:56,678 --> 01:07:58,159 What am I experiencing? 1057 01:07:58,159 --> 01:08:00,360 Does this feel oppressive? 1058 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:01,560 It might be. 1059 01:08:01,740 --> 01:08:07,243 Does it feel racist that I can't get on camera without making sure I have a white shirt or something light on me? 1060 01:08:07,243 --> 01:08:07,663 Yeah. 1061 01:08:07,663 --> 01:08:15,126 Now that's not the reason I said it because that's not my reasoning, but like probably has to do with it. 1062 01:08:15,126 --> 01:08:25,430 How do you, we don't have to, but I think the Puritan thing of like, okay, but if it's based on race, that means what you're saying is it's bad needs to die. 1063 01:08:25,431 --> 01:08:27,311 Whoa, don't speak for me. 1064 01:08:27,311 --> 01:08:29,171 I'm just saying what I said. 1065 01:08:29,171 --> 01:08:30,351 Camera phrases. 1066 01:08:30,771 --> 01:08:36,291 I thought it was just the thing now, you know, you know, because I was just sharing, just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 1067 01:08:36,291 --> 01:08:40,591 It's not for someone to now go out and punish and to go. 1068 01:08:40,591 --> 01:08:41,571 Yeah. 1069 01:08:42,011 --> 01:08:43,271 But I think. 1070 01:08:43,731 --> 01:08:52,791 So, again, I think part of the problem is that nobody's prepared for how deep it actually runs. 1071 01:08:52,791 --> 01:08:53,351 Yeah. 1072 01:08:53,351 --> 01:08:53,991 Right. 1073 01:08:53,991 --> 01:08:54,690 That like. 1074 01:08:54,690 --> 01:08:57,741 you're gonna be like, they're a racism. 1075 01:08:58,061 --> 01:09:02,502 And then you're gonna start pulling it up and it's upend everything. 1076 01:09:02,562 --> 01:09:12,615 Because it is probably true that the very, and by the way, ever since you said that, and I was like, and I look phenomenal on camera and I look better on camera than I do in real 1077 01:09:12,615 --> 01:09:12,795 life. 1078 01:09:12,795 --> 01:09:14,055 And I think it's the contrast thing. 1079 01:09:14,055 --> 01:09:18,126 It's like the camera actually loves my very, very light skin. 1080 01:09:18,126 --> 01:09:19,096 That's what it's made for. 1081 01:09:19,096 --> 01:09:21,079 Cause that's probably the first. 1082 01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:23,959 The Shirley, and it's like called the Shirley something. 1083 01:09:24,019 --> 01:09:29,698 like it was based off of a, I think it was Shirley Temple, but like a white face. 1084 01:09:29,939 --> 01:09:32,039 makes perfect sense. 1085 01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:32,859 Right. 1086 01:09:32,860 --> 01:09:34,000 Shirley Temple, by the way. 1087 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:34,540 the whole gas line. 1088 01:09:34,540 --> 01:09:40,000 Shirley Temple, the way, who regularly did blackface in movies? 1089 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,460 Do you not know this? 1090 01:09:41,460 --> 01:09:43,120 Well, I know she. 1091 01:09:43,300 --> 01:09:44,356 was like seven. 1092 01:09:44,356 --> 01:09:47,739 I'm not saying it was her fault. 1093 01:09:47,739 --> 01:09:50,602 Evil Shirley Temple. 1094 01:09:50,662 --> 01:09:52,804 It was still okay. 1095 01:09:52,804 --> 01:09:56,909 let's dig her up. 1096 01:09:56,909 --> 01:09:58,010 But that's what I mean. 1097 01:09:58,010 --> 01:10:05,527 So I think this is such a good example of like, no, we're not saying cancel Shirley Temple, dig up, blah, blah. 1098 01:10:05,527 --> 01:10:07,995 But should we in 2025? 1099 01:10:08,007 --> 01:10:17,365 probably have a discussion about how problematic there's literally a scene when they're in the Civil War and the Yankees are coming and so she goes in the room and the little black 1100 01:10:17,365 --> 01:10:20,707 girl paints her with shoe polish so that you know. 1101 01:10:20,707 --> 01:10:21,318 protect her? 1102 01:10:21,318 --> 01:10:21,898 To protect her. 1103 01:10:21,898 --> 01:10:22,620 From the North? 1104 01:10:22,620 --> 01:10:26,503 I think because she's hiding and she's like yes. 1105 01:10:26,503 --> 01:10:29,256 To protect the white girl they painted her black? 1106 01:10:29,256 --> 01:10:36,192 yeah yeah because that's part of the idea that the North was horrible right like they're retelling the whole story. 1107 01:10:36,192 --> 01:10:38,452 So this is what white people make it about racism. 1108 01:10:38,452 --> 01:10:44,332 So should we actually have that discussion of how that was problematic then, that's problematic now? 1109 01:10:44,332 --> 01:10:49,232 And it is a very interesting thing would be to trace like, why do they think that was okay? 1110 01:10:49,232 --> 01:10:51,392 And like, what are the blah, blah, blah, blah? 1111 01:10:51,393 --> 01:10:52,633 And that's for white people to do. 1112 01:10:52,633 --> 01:10:53,093 And you know what? 1113 01:10:53,093 --> 01:10:57,393 It's not gonna be That would be a perfectly interesting discussion at a cocktail party. 1114 01:10:57,393 --> 01:10:58,753 Like, why not? 1115 01:10:58,753 --> 01:10:59,773 know, like. 1116 01:10:59,773 --> 01:11:01,093 I think so. 1117 01:11:01,313 --> 01:11:04,013 Other people say, do you want a dinner? 1118 01:11:04,093 --> 01:11:05,593 And I was like, oh. 1119 01:11:05,730 --> 01:11:10,713 So now I know this, now if someone's Shirley Temple, now I'm gonna bring someone beyond camera. 1120 01:11:10,713 --> 01:11:14,296 Well, because black people have always known like, oh, watch is not gonna show me. 1121 01:11:14,296 --> 01:11:16,367 Like you have to be aware of the things. 1122 01:11:16,367 --> 01:11:21,312 That mean is, I'm light skinned so there was that whole thing, but, and that's a whole other conversation. 1123 01:11:21,312 --> 01:11:29,818 But I do think that it's okay to bring it up and nothing's gonna happen to you white people when you bring up Shirley Temple face. 1124 01:11:29,818 --> 01:11:31,239 I think that's actually interesting. 1125 01:11:31,239 --> 01:11:34,181 And if someone said that to me, I'd be like, that's a cool white person. 1126 01:11:34,181 --> 01:11:35,761 They know we're in the ship. 1127 01:11:35,902 --> 01:11:38,944 And then I'd be like, now I know I can talk. 1128 01:11:38,944 --> 01:11:40,626 Because, I don't know. 1129 01:11:40,626 --> 01:11:45,029 Said, Orphans aren't allowed to watch movies that weren't from the 40s or whatever. 1130 01:11:45,029 --> 01:11:46,945 Either way, was trivial. 1131 01:11:46,945 --> 01:11:48,311 It wasn't even that long ago. 1132 01:11:48,311 --> 01:11:49,172 I don't know. 1133 01:11:49,172 --> 01:11:52,247 uh Listen, there was lots of problems going on. 1134 01:11:52,247 --> 01:11:53,895 America's a terrible place. 1135 01:11:54,075 --> 01:11:55,076 In a way. 1136 01:11:55,076 --> 01:11:56,657 But that's the, like... 1137 01:11:56,817 --> 01:12:04,677 I mean, it's like, how I just got it again last week where they were like, Oh my God, everything can do could just see everything as cults. 1138 01:12:04,677 --> 01:12:08,217 And I was like, well, I see everything as groups. 1139 01:12:08,217 --> 01:12:12,937 And I understand that cult is not a separate form of group. 1140 01:12:12,937 --> 01:12:15,197 Like you're not just like a good group. 1141 01:12:15,197 --> 01:12:16,617 And then you're a cult, right? 1142 01:12:16,617 --> 01:12:17,977 was a rhetorical question. 1143 01:12:17,977 --> 01:12:19,857 was a rhetorical question. 1144 01:12:19,877 --> 01:12:23,250 what I was, what I like to say is like, yeah, 1145 01:12:23,250 --> 01:12:31,010 Any group yes, you could bring up any group you just be like Danielle let go or like there used to be this thing on my Twitter where I would watch movies that I hadn't seen before 1146 01:12:31,010 --> 01:12:33,410 and I would be like, oh guys, this is about a cult mean girls. 1147 01:12:33,410 --> 01:12:43,990 That's about a cult like oh You know to it as kind of like a bit and it's like yeah because you can because you can dig into I mean with racism and sexism I think you could 1148 01:12:43,990 --> 01:12:45,350 literally 1149 01:12:45,351 --> 01:12:51,071 We could toss a coin in this room and whatever it landed on, could be like the history of this. 1150 01:12:51,091 --> 01:12:55,091 Probably sexist and I can tell you that there were not this exact one. 1151 01:12:55,091 --> 01:12:56,031 You're good. 1152 01:12:56,131 --> 01:12:56,871 Don't worry. 1153 01:12:57,291 --> 01:12:59,991 They used to be stuffed with our hair and stuff. 1154 01:12:59,991 --> 01:13:01,811 you know, it's like, look at them, who knows? 1155 01:13:01,811 --> 01:13:03,471 Is there black people here or not? 1156 01:13:03,471 --> 01:13:04,291 I don't know. 1157 01:13:04,291 --> 01:13:05,071 I hope not. 1158 01:13:05,071 --> 01:13:05,551 I don't think so. 1159 01:13:05,551 --> 01:13:06,471 Almost certainly not. 1160 01:13:06,471 --> 01:13:07,971 I don't think so. 1161 01:13:07,971 --> 01:13:09,431 I don't know I'm saying. 1162 01:13:09,431 --> 01:13:10,291 But. 1163 01:13:10,292 --> 01:13:11,812 know, crossed. 1164 01:13:11,812 --> 01:13:16,152 you have anything that I've crocheted, there's probably some white lady hair in it. 1165 01:13:16,152 --> 01:13:17,172 Yeah, there's hair in there. 1166 01:13:17,172 --> 01:13:18,692 There's definitely hair in there. 1167 01:13:18,692 --> 01:13:21,212 But no, wasn't like that. 1168 01:13:21,212 --> 01:13:23,232 It was like we were used. 1169 01:13:23,232 --> 01:13:25,072 It's polyurethane foam and polyurethane. 1170 01:13:25,072 --> 01:13:27,432 Oh, so that's what you guys call us. 1171 01:13:27,433 --> 01:13:36,834 I just think that like my hope is that at some point, like I think like enough of the boomers will die. 1172 01:13:37,262 --> 01:13:42,682 and we will be able to just be like, yes, everything, everything in our world is problematic. 1173 01:13:42,683 --> 01:13:45,523 think it's sort Waiting for them to die off has never gone over. 1174 01:13:45,523 --> 01:13:46,643 I agree, I agree. 1175 01:13:46,643 --> 01:14:00,863 But I'm just, I think that I have hope that as future generations are just being brought up with a more diverse world, you know, like, I told you, I went out of my way to find a 1176 01:14:00,863 --> 01:14:06,273 easy nickname for my daughter because she does not have an easy full name. 1177 01:14:06,273 --> 01:14:12,287 And by that I mean it is a name all Americans know it's just slightly less popular. 1178 01:14:12,287 --> 01:14:19,673 And I worked really hard because I my experience was that like millennial Americans do not like three syllable names. 1179 01:14:19,673 --> 01:14:31,481 And the kids of Generation Alpha are just all learning each other's full names of all the different cultures, at least in the very multi multicultural place where I live. 1180 01:14:31,481 --> 01:14:34,208 So I'm like people who like three syllables. 1181 01:14:34,208 --> 01:14:46,397 I do think that at white people probably probably but I do think that like my god that's for all this stuff is getting better I mean like my name is Rebecca and why did this white 1182 01:14:46,397 --> 01:14:48,378 man call me Rebecca? 1183 01:14:48,378 --> 01:14:50,480 Rebecca! 1184 01:14:50,480 --> 01:14:52,080 I don't know you? 1185 01:14:52,121 --> 01:14:53,461 Never! 1186 01:14:53,662 --> 01:14:59,487 I've never introduced myself Rebecca it's not that hard why why do white people nick 1187 01:14:59,488 --> 01:15:00,349 Over from earlier. 1188 01:15:00,349 --> 01:15:02,970 So that's why we were just talking about this earlier. 1189 01:15:02,970 --> 01:15:08,023 We're like, it's also different cultures do nicknames differently. 1190 01:15:08,023 --> 01:15:21,431 And like, with what with whiteness, I think sometimes the nickname is to like, yeah, make you smaller insult versus like, in Brazil, like, I wouldn't say Rebecca, do you want a 1191 01:15:21,431 --> 01:15:21,821 coffee? 1192 01:15:21,821 --> 01:15:24,182 would say Rebecca, do you want a little tiny baby coffee? 1193 01:15:24,182 --> 01:15:25,653 And so like, 1194 01:15:25,724 --> 01:15:33,816 doing what is literally called a diminutive, putting the ito or the ita in Spanish or the inho or the inha in Portuguese, like that's normal. 1195 01:15:33,816 --> 01:15:43,359 And like, no one's allowed to call me Dani except my family members and Brazilians, because they call me Dani and they don't ask permission. 1196 01:15:43,359 --> 01:15:47,550 But it's not, it is a cultural acceptance thing. 1197 01:15:47,550 --> 01:15:49,741 It is not an, want to make you smaller thing. 1198 01:15:49,741 --> 01:15:49,991 Right. 1199 01:15:49,991 --> 01:15:53,746 Or over familiar, get closer to you, make you a little bit like... 1200 01:15:53,746 --> 01:15:57,846 that we were talking about, was like the willy and all these little things. 1201 01:15:57,846 --> 01:16:01,406 I think that's what you're talking about, like does it feel oppressive? 1202 01:16:01,546 --> 01:16:10,006 know, where like from the beginning, when I was 22 years old, I decided I wanted to use my, Daniella, my full name, and I didn't know that like people like to change their name 1203 01:16:10,006 --> 01:16:11,966 after cults and all of that, right? 1204 01:16:11,966 --> 01:16:14,386 But I was just like, I wanna go by my full name. 1205 01:16:14,386 --> 01:16:16,766 That's interesting, I don't think people should change their names. 1206 01:16:16,766 --> 01:16:18,405 And- That's a cultic cue. 1207 01:16:18,405 --> 01:16:25,597 I wanted to go buy my full book because cults often change your name and like in our cult they would just decide like my mom had her name changed three times because they decided 1208 01:16:25,597 --> 01:16:37,360 she needed to get the victory over that's purely as well because now this is a new person this is a blank slate I think changing names is so marriage right yeah and all that and so 1209 01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:47,722 but anyway so I was Daniela and people go you have a nickname for that and they just I would have gave it to you if I wanted to give anyone felt oppressive to me 1210 01:16:47,814 --> 01:16:54,178 And I told you why, but I just started looking at people and I would say, yeah, where I come from, they call me Danielina. 1211 01:16:54,178 --> 01:16:58,411 And then they would just go, oh, Daniella's not that hard. 1212 01:16:58,411 --> 01:17:01,022 And it's true. 1213 01:17:01,022 --> 01:17:01,863 that wasn't it. 1214 01:17:01,863 --> 01:17:06,025 Like, I it's not always about shortening, you know, in other cultures. 1215 01:17:06,025 --> 01:17:11,491 And so, but it was, I think this is a really good tip actually. 1216 01:17:11,491 --> 01:17:13,922 Just like think about it. 1217 01:17:14,023 --> 01:17:14,845 And if it, 1218 01:17:14,845 --> 01:17:17,036 feels oppressive. 1219 01:17:17,037 --> 01:17:29,103 You know, I would say like, I'm proud of myself, because I think 95 % of my perfectionism was trauma and whiteness and all of that. 1220 01:17:29,103 --> 01:17:33,326 But at least 5 % of it was me recognizing that misogynist bullshit. 1221 01:17:33,326 --> 01:17:36,187 And I was absolutely not going to put up with it again. 1222 01:17:36,247 --> 01:17:39,502 You know, so like when the army was like, yeah, men and women are just different. 1223 01:17:39,502 --> 01:17:41,180 And we're just better at some things. 1224 01:17:41,180 --> 01:17:43,619 And I was just like, no, no. 1225 01:17:43,619 --> 01:17:52,619 Like I could feel the oppressiveness of it after growing up in such a blatantly sexist society. 1226 01:17:52,619 --> 01:17:57,179 And that also just comes back to the like why you can't be like, your proof. 1227 01:17:57,180 --> 01:17:57,600 Show your proof. 1228 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:05,360 Because if they're asking for proof, they are seeing themselves in a position to decide, yeah, who are you? 1229 01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:11,580 My whole 20 years in America, I have been trying to figure it out. 1230 01:18:11,580 --> 01:18:12,495 Why? 1231 01:18:12,495 --> 01:18:15,587 When I say I'm from Brazil, it goes that way. 1232 01:18:15,888 --> 01:18:19,220 Cause it has always felt awful to me. 1233 01:18:19,220 --> 01:18:24,234 And it's because of white people. 1234 01:18:24,234 --> 01:18:26,136 that's the tell, right? 1235 01:18:26,136 --> 01:18:29,458 Cause it never, they're not interested, right? 1236 01:18:29,458 --> 01:18:31,200 Because I get interested. 1237 01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:32,062 What's the question? 1238 01:18:32,062 --> 01:18:34,002 What's that rhetorical question about? 1239 01:18:34,002 --> 01:18:36,265 It's like they're interested. 1240 01:18:36,265 --> 01:18:38,045 They're trying to categorize. 1241 01:18:38,045 --> 01:18:41,912 They're trying to like put you in a box and 1242 01:18:41,912 --> 01:18:46,213 because I don't fit in any boxes, it always felt very oppressive to me. 1243 01:18:46,213 --> 01:18:48,914 But in reality, living in a box is oppressive. 1244 01:18:49,334 --> 01:18:52,156 know, my life living in a shipping container, it's not fun. 1245 01:18:52,156 --> 01:18:55,387 Yeah, like a mind prison of someone else's anyway. 1246 01:18:55,387 --> 01:18:58,619 like, need to make and describe myself. 1247 01:18:58,619 --> 01:18:59,880 It's the rubric. 1248 01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:00,820 Yeah. 1249 01:19:00,820 --> 01:19:04,141 It's like, I'm gonna think about this rubric thing a lot. 1250 01:19:04,141 --> 01:19:04,531 yeah. 1251 01:19:04,531 --> 01:19:07,662 The rubric we can't categorize you. 1252 01:19:07,663 --> 01:19:08,183 You don't exist. 1253 01:19:08,183 --> 01:19:09,063 What do we do with you? 1254 01:19:09,063 --> 01:19:10,723 We throw you out. 1255 01:19:10,724 --> 01:19:12,464 We tell you you're not really a white person. 1256 01:19:12,464 --> 01:19:14,964 Yeah, we don't need to listen to you anyway. 1257 01:19:14,964 --> 01:19:17,164 Well, it's why should I listen to you? 1258 01:19:17,164 --> 01:19:20,304 And the fact that I'm a human speaking to you is not enough? 1259 01:19:20,744 --> 01:19:23,544 Okay, well, don't. 1260 01:19:23,624 --> 01:19:27,264 You know, if someone says, hey, what, you see cults and everything? 1261 01:19:27,264 --> 01:19:28,816 What if you just said, yeah. 1262 01:19:28,817 --> 01:19:33,648 Do they think like my acronym what what happens after that when you ask a rhetorical question? 1263 01:19:33,648 --> 01:19:39,200 Are they thinking what happens after this person answers or are they just trying to make you defend yourself? 1264 01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:42,162 Yeah, you know, do you see groups everywhere? 1265 01:19:42,162 --> 01:19:43,282 Yeah. 1266 01:19:43,282 --> 01:19:45,437 Or someone would be like, this is you are so racist. 1267 01:19:45,437 --> 01:19:47,438 This back when I used to respond, you're so racist. 1268 01:19:47,438 --> 01:19:49,188 I go, OK. 1269 01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:56,331 I've just started doing this Rebecca thing when people ask me for extra stuff and I'll just be like, no. 1270 01:19:56,333 --> 01:19:58,214 Was I not allowed to no? 1271 01:19:58,214 --> 01:20:02,504 I know that I could have just said nothing, but they'll be like, can you tell me where I can find more? 1272 01:20:02,504 --> 01:20:03,156 I'm just like, no. 1273 01:20:03,156 --> 01:20:04,997 in action is an action too, right? 1274 01:20:04,997 --> 01:20:07,588 So if you say nothing, that's a choice, but you don't feel better. 1275 01:20:07,588 --> 01:20:12,873 You feel better when you say makes me feel really good when I say it, and it's making a point to them. 1276 01:20:12,873 --> 01:20:13,397 Exactly. 1277 01:20:13,397 --> 01:20:14,911 You didn't expect me to say no. 1278 01:20:14,911 --> 01:20:15,922 Why not? 1279 01:20:16,262 --> 01:20:18,013 Was that not one of the... 1280 01:20:18,013 --> 01:20:21,434 That's like conversation colonizing. 1281 01:20:21,434 --> 01:20:23,094 That is coercive. 1282 01:20:23,094 --> 01:20:27,357 You think you should be able to just blah, whatever. 1283 01:20:27,357 --> 01:20:28,878 Can I ask you a question? 1284 01:20:28,878 --> 01:20:29,239 No. 1285 01:20:29,239 --> 01:20:34,463 Why would you ask me a question I don't have a choice of answering? 1286 01:20:34,463 --> 01:20:41,108 know, that just my neurodivergent brain just says, you're asking me a question, I'm gonna answer your question. 1287 01:20:41,108 --> 01:20:47,151 You know, I don't take things, I don't go with what you're implying. 1288 01:20:47,172 --> 01:20:49,415 I'm just gonna read your question. 1289 01:20:49,415 --> 01:20:51,727 Wow, are you obsessed with white people? 1290 01:20:51,727 --> 01:20:52,807 Maybe. 1291 01:20:52,808 --> 01:21:00,190 And I also think like for me, it really reinforces the, I actually don't have to prove myself to you. 1292 01:21:00,190 --> 01:21:02,051 Because they didn't care. 1293 01:21:02,051 --> 01:21:02,641 They don't care. 1294 01:21:02,641 --> 01:21:04,031 could have said anything. 1295 01:21:04,031 --> 01:21:14,244 They don't care, but they expect that because I am expert, blah, blah, want to be taken seriously that now I'm gonna. 1296 01:21:14,244 --> 01:21:16,035 work hard to prove myself. 1297 01:21:16,035 --> 01:21:19,646 And you can be taken seriously without taking yourself very seriously. 1298 01:21:19,646 --> 01:21:20,766 Like, I realize that's what I... 1299 01:21:20,766 --> 01:21:22,355 I take things very seriously. 1300 01:21:22,355 --> 01:21:26,145 I take what I do seriously, but I don't take myself very seriously. 1301 01:21:26,145 --> 01:21:28,659 Like, you must respect me! 1302 01:21:28,659 --> 01:21:30,924 That's a white man stuff. 1303 01:21:30,924 --> 01:21:40,027 I think my whole brand is tactical frivolity, and it's like, I am completely aware that nothing about me is giving former Army captain... 1304 01:21:40,027 --> 01:21:40,827 Right. 1305 01:21:40,827 --> 01:21:41,667 ...who... 1306 01:21:41,747 --> 01:21:45,109 got an award from President Obama once. 1307 01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:47,712 why did you show up and judge me based on my appearance? 1308 01:21:47,712 --> 01:21:51,514 Why did you show up and underestimate me in the first place? 1309 01:21:51,614 --> 01:21:53,405 And that's the like... 1310 01:21:53,406 --> 01:21:56,206 I think that people can't get passed right now. 1311 01:21:56,206 --> 01:21:56,946 works with people. 1312 01:21:56,946 --> 01:21:58,106 I hope maybe it does. 1313 01:21:58,106 --> 01:22:02,406 think sometimes if I say no, every once in a while someone would go fair enough. 1314 01:22:02,407 --> 01:22:14,047 And this is why I have some hope though is because I do think we are like we're learning that like we're starting to have those conversations about like no normalized women can 1315 01:22:14,047 --> 01:22:21,496 answer questions however they want and normalize that we can be sitting dressed however we want and turns out our brains 1316 01:22:21,496 --> 01:22:22,216 Still the same. 1317 01:22:22,216 --> 01:22:25,329 Yeah, I'm still gonna, but did I lie though? 1318 01:22:25,329 --> 01:22:26,880 Is one of those things that we like to say. 1319 01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:28,031 But did I lie? 1320 01:22:28,031 --> 01:22:28,691 No. 1321 01:22:28,691 --> 01:22:30,543 Do you like, where did it come from? 1322 01:22:30,543 --> 01:22:31,813 From your business. 1323 01:22:31,974 --> 01:22:33,435 I'm giving you zero sources. 1324 01:22:33,435 --> 01:22:34,605 Do you take it or what? 1325 01:22:34,605 --> 01:22:35,496 Now what? 1326 01:22:35,496 --> 01:22:36,877 I should have shut up? 1327 01:22:36,878 --> 01:22:38,220 No, too late. 1328 01:22:38,220 --> 01:22:39,440 That's not how time works. 1329 01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:41,192 So just say what you got to say. 1330 01:22:41,192 --> 01:22:42,963 If it makes sense, take it. 1331 01:22:42,963 --> 01:22:45,525 If it doesn't make sense, I don't care. 1332 01:22:45,525 --> 01:22:49,059 It also, it just occurs to me that it's all, we're like. 1333 01:22:49,059 --> 01:22:52,059 We're also upending the rules when we do that, right? 1334 01:22:52,059 --> 01:22:55,799 Because the rules are like, you want me to take it seriously as an expert, you're supposed to care. 1335 01:22:55,799 --> 01:22:57,679 You're supposed to want to defend yourself. 1336 01:22:57,679 --> 01:23:01,579 But the reality is, I just keep fucking showing up every day. 1337 01:23:01,579 --> 01:23:04,999 And that's why I'm still here and people are still listening to me. 1338 01:23:04,999 --> 01:23:07,559 And I don't actually have to prove myself. 1339 01:23:07,559 --> 01:23:10,059 Do we have the knowledge? 1340 01:23:10,059 --> 01:23:11,799 And that's why we're talking. 1341 01:23:11,799 --> 01:23:12,679 Yes. 1342 01:23:12,939 --> 01:23:14,291 But it's in the 1343 01:23:14,291 --> 01:23:15,512 in the awareness, right? 1344 01:23:15,512 --> 01:23:23,477 The people who know and who respect the work already know I wouldn't have shown up and said what I had to say if I didn't think it through, especially Black women. 1345 01:23:23,477 --> 01:23:33,553 And when I speak on behalf or I say something that Black, on behalf of Black women, don't think this is something I'm just now for the first time thinking in the first, I'm the 1346 01:23:33,553 --> 01:23:35,024 first one to ever think it and... 1347 01:23:35,024 --> 01:23:37,496 Original thoughts aren't real. 1348 01:23:37,496 --> 01:23:39,607 I get this question all the time. 1349 01:23:39,608 --> 01:23:42,868 it strikes me now that it's usually from men, but not only. 1350 01:23:42,868 --> 01:23:48,453 when they're like, what, what do other military women think about your book? 1351 01:23:48,653 --> 01:23:51,616 And like, they say, get out of my diary. 1352 01:23:51,616 --> 01:23:58,800 When you're literally talking about a cultural phenomenon, probably you're not the first person that that happened to. 1353 01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:04,216 And probably, you know, and even if it didn't happen to them, what would they say? 1354 01:24:04,216 --> 01:24:06,197 That's not my experience. 1355 01:24:06,198 --> 01:24:09,660 Okay, well, that doesn't change what I just said. 1356 01:24:09,660 --> 01:24:12,442 And that's why I'm just like, it's why are they asking that? 1357 01:24:12,442 --> 01:24:20,667 And that's why, am I talking was so big, I guess, for white people because they just be talking and they don't think what happens after that. 1358 01:24:20,667 --> 01:24:24,470 After I asked this person, where did you get your information from? 1359 01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:27,458 They might never, I might never see their page again. 1360 01:24:27,458 --> 01:24:28,832 I might get blocked. 1361 01:24:29,133 --> 01:24:30,333 They just think. 1362 01:24:30,334 --> 01:24:32,165 Well, I won. 1363 01:24:32,165 --> 01:24:33,376 I don't know what they think, actually. 1364 01:24:33,376 --> 01:24:34,237 Let me not even try. 1365 01:24:34,237 --> 01:24:39,250 Let me not appropriate white culture by colonizing other people's minds. 1366 01:24:39,430 --> 01:24:41,170 I'm gonna stay my black ass. 1367 01:24:41,170 --> 01:24:42,321 not black business. 1368 01:24:42,321 --> 01:24:43,322 just the rules. 1369 01:24:43,322 --> 01:24:47,946 I think that there's a lot of rules in whiteness. 1370 01:24:47,946 --> 01:24:50,427 Yeah, that's all it is, is rules. 1371 01:24:50,428 --> 01:24:51,749 what else? 1372 01:24:51,749 --> 01:24:53,670 They just, everyone goes, how dare you? 1373 01:24:53,670 --> 01:24:55,371 That's not a thing black people say. 1374 01:24:55,372 --> 01:24:56,612 How dare you? 1375 01:24:56,612 --> 01:24:57,505 eh 1376 01:24:57,505 --> 01:25:05,960 You know, I've been saying this for very long time that one of my favorite like anti-cult inoculation quotes is there are many valid ways to live a life. 1377 01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:07,601 Yeah, I like that a lot. 1378 01:25:07,601 --> 01:25:13,695 But you only need to be told that if you've been taught there was only one valid way to live a life. 1379 01:25:13,695 --> 01:25:14,565 That's I'm saying. 1380 01:25:14,565 --> 01:25:22,681 know, like, it reminds me also of the whole black and white thinking thing when like the way people were just so stuck on 1381 01:25:23,599 --> 01:25:26,809 trying to determine whether it's true or not or where and why. 1382 01:25:26,809 --> 01:25:39,879 I'm just like, I've never had to think in this way of like absolutes, where this is what this means and you've got to find the source of it and the origins and like lineage of a 1383 01:25:39,879 --> 01:25:41,820 word, whiteness. 1384 01:25:41,901 --> 01:25:42,971 Like what about just today? 1385 01:25:42,971 --> 01:25:46,103 When I said the hanging over your head makes me uncomfortable. 1386 01:25:46,103 --> 01:25:48,915 So many people knew its origins, white people. 1387 01:25:48,916 --> 01:25:52,758 Why do you know origins of weird phrases like this? 1388 01:25:52,758 --> 01:25:54,039 Democles. 1389 01:25:54,039 --> 01:25:55,159 Okay. 1390 01:25:55,239 --> 01:26:06,485 And I, and I think too, like, part of it is like, and then when you know the origin comes from a really bad place, why do you keep using it? 1391 01:26:06,485 --> 01:26:07,526 Right. 1392 01:26:07,806 --> 01:26:16,270 It's like now, the amount of pushback that I get from white people when I tell them Eenie Meenie Minie Moe came from racism. 1393 01:26:16,531 --> 01:26:17,331 Yeah. 1394 01:26:17,332 --> 01:26:20,004 It was just like, but but back that. 1395 01:26:20,004 --> 01:26:21,846 OK, but this is not back then. 1396 01:26:21,846 --> 01:26:23,707 This is now. 1397 01:26:23,827 --> 01:26:33,036 And if you know now that it came from a negative place, well, they want you to go back in time, dig it up, just like Shirley Temple and punch it. 1398 01:26:33,036 --> 01:26:37,339 You got to punch it now and tell everybody about it. 1399 01:26:37,419 --> 01:26:44,295 And anybody who says a word about it in the future, they have to go dig it up and punch it or else they're in that. 1400 01:26:44,295 --> 01:26:46,376 And even the rules, right? 1401 01:26:46,377 --> 01:26:48,177 what, so now we can't say it anymore? 1402 01:26:48,177 --> 01:26:52,049 Oh what, so now you're saying we can't listen to Taylor Swift anymore? 1403 01:26:52,049 --> 01:26:54,038 And I've been like, I don't know about you. 1404 01:26:54,038 --> 01:26:58,599 I don't want to listen to her anymore now that I realize how problematic she is. 1405 01:26:58,599 --> 01:27:01,444 Like I don't actually need a rule for that at all. 1406 01:27:01,444 --> 01:27:05,706 why do they think that just because I say I have an opinion on something that means we can't say it anymore? 1407 01:27:05,706 --> 01:27:09,908 I said was, it sounds weird to me when you say black and white and I'm like me? 1408 01:27:09,909 --> 01:27:12,300 And you're like no, good and bad. 1409 01:27:12,516 --> 01:27:13,826 Which one's good? 1410 01:27:13,847 --> 01:27:15,708 I'm just saying these are where my thoughts go. 1411 01:27:15,708 --> 01:27:21,651 And you're saying, well, so now when I say it and it's in the books and in the, I don't know guys, leave me alone. 1412 01:27:21,651 --> 01:27:23,512 I was just sharing my thoughts. 1413 01:27:23,652 --> 01:27:26,464 And you don't always realize it either. 1414 01:27:26,464 --> 01:27:32,617 Like when we, cause my first suggestion was that we should do, call it red and blue. 1415 01:27:32,737 --> 01:27:35,399 And then they're like, well, politically that can get messy. 1416 01:27:35,399 --> 01:27:40,422 But I just remember as soon as I said red and blue thinking and there's purple. 1417 01:27:40,422 --> 01:27:41,275 And I was like, 1418 01:27:41,275 --> 01:27:42,655 There's no hierarchy there, right? 1419 01:27:42,655 --> 01:27:46,275 Because we haven't put a hierarchy to red or blue, which one is good or bad. 1420 01:27:46,275 --> 01:27:47,255 It literally is. 1421 01:27:47,255 --> 01:27:52,655 And immediately makes you realize there is always a hierarchy when you say black and white. 1422 01:27:52,655 --> 01:27:58,775 And it's like, because rigid thinking is one thing and the people want to tell me all about what it really means. 1423 01:27:58,775 --> 01:27:59,955 And it's not good and bad. 1424 01:27:59,955 --> 01:28:01,515 It's not good and bad. 1425 01:28:01,516 --> 01:28:02,656 It's not right or wrong. 1426 01:28:02,656 --> 01:28:03,476 It's rigid thinking. 1427 01:28:03,476 --> 01:28:04,516 It's extremes. 1428 01:28:04,516 --> 01:28:06,196 About what? 1429 01:28:06,396 --> 01:28:07,376 About what, guys? 1430 01:28:07,376 --> 01:28:08,056 What are you doing? 1431 01:28:08,056 --> 01:28:09,627 Like, why are you correcting me? 1432 01:28:09,627 --> 01:28:16,007 about what's good and bad about what's I also think it's like, there's a safety in the rules. 1433 01:28:16,007 --> 01:28:20,367 And then the rules mean you don't have to collapse anything, everything. 1434 01:28:20,367 --> 01:28:29,687 When really the reality is no, we need to be looking at all of our language for how problematic it is because it came from problematic times. 1435 01:28:29,687 --> 01:28:31,047 And that's fine. 1436 01:28:31,047 --> 01:28:31,967 We can do that. 1437 01:28:31,967 --> 01:28:34,667 Language is actually the fastest thing that evolves. 1438 01:28:34,667 --> 01:28:35,847 It's fine. 1439 01:28:35,848 --> 01:28:37,428 You're not going to get in trouble. 1440 01:28:37,428 --> 01:28:41,531 Larry, when you think about the fact that these men put their faces in a mountain, let's stop. 1441 01:28:41,531 --> 01:28:43,933 They said, you know what we really need as a country? 1442 01:28:43,933 --> 01:28:48,916 A mountain with our ugly, sorry, a mountain with faces on it. 1443 01:28:48,917 --> 01:28:49,727 That's what we need. 1444 01:28:49,727 --> 01:28:52,259 That'll get the people going. 1445 01:28:52,259 --> 01:28:54,320 That'll really juice them up. 1446 01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:55,200 Look at that mountain. 1447 01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,832 Used to be a mountain, now it's a portrait. 1448 01:28:57,832 --> 01:29:01,874 And now if you wanna take the faces down, you hate everything. 1449 01:29:01,875 --> 01:29:03,897 Hey guess what, I hate everything. 1450 01:29:03,897 --> 01:29:06,799 I say faceless could go, I don't really care. 1451 01:29:06,799 --> 01:29:08,855 you told me Trump owns his face up there, right? 1452 01:29:08,855 --> 01:29:10,081 It's problematic. 1453 01:29:10,081 --> 01:29:11,742 Did you know that Trump owns his face up there? 1454 01:29:11,742 --> 01:29:13,063 Not surprised. 1455 01:29:13,064 --> 01:29:15,406 The time, put them to work. 1456 01:29:15,406 --> 01:29:16,637 You know, they need to go to work. 1457 01:29:16,637 --> 01:29:18,408 How do you have time to even think of that? 1458 01:29:18,408 --> 01:29:24,733 I've been saying I think the American dream is just the four fraudsters, like maladaptive daydreams come to life. 1459 01:29:24,733 --> 01:29:26,954 And dreams are night, nightmares are dreams. 1460 01:29:27,015 --> 01:29:28,816 Dreams can't be lived. 1461 01:29:28,816 --> 01:29:30,437 Let go of the dreams. 1462 01:29:30,438 --> 01:29:32,179 Let's live our lives. 1463 01:29:32,179 --> 01:29:33,240 Just like the whole dreams. 1464 01:29:33,240 --> 01:29:35,311 Dream man, dream job, dream car. 1465 01:29:35,311 --> 01:29:36,452 Those aren't real life. 1466 01:29:36,452 --> 01:29:37,924 Those are dreams. 1467 01:29:37,924 --> 01:29:38,944 Also. 1468 01:29:38,945 --> 01:29:44,905 We have this concept that a dream is something you have about the future. 1469 01:29:44,905 --> 01:29:45,925 Right, what the what is? 1470 01:29:45,925 --> 01:29:50,145 Scientifically dreams is just your brain sorting through what you experienced that day. 1471 01:29:50,145 --> 01:29:50,525 Right. 1472 01:29:50,525 --> 01:29:51,305 Like that's what they are. 1473 01:29:51,305 --> 01:29:54,805 If you chase a dream, that's asleep. 1474 01:29:55,065 --> 01:29:55,825 I don't know. 1475 01:29:55,825 --> 01:29:57,805 You're you're chasing death. 1476 01:29:57,805 --> 01:29:58,425 That's asleep. 1477 01:29:58,425 --> 01:30:02,705 You're going unconscious and they're just like unconscious biases. 1478 01:30:02,785 --> 01:30:04,105 You need to put that on something. 1479 01:30:04,105 --> 01:30:06,765 If you chase a dream, you're asleep. 1480 01:30:06,765 --> 01:30:07,872 You're asleep. 1481 01:30:07,872 --> 01:30:08,892 What are you talking about? 1482 01:30:08,892 --> 01:30:10,353 And like you can't live a dream. 1483 01:30:10,353 --> 01:30:12,654 You can't do you can't chase a dream. 1484 01:30:12,654 --> 01:30:14,895 can you can chase people in a dream. 1485 01:30:14,895 --> 01:30:16,336 I've been chased in a dream. 1486 01:30:16,336 --> 01:30:17,146 That's terrible. 1487 01:30:17,146 --> 01:30:18,006 Almost every night. 1488 01:30:18,006 --> 01:30:22,368 And also when you're in a dream you can't get out of we generally call that a nightmare. 1489 01:30:22,368 --> 01:30:22,928 I remember. 1490 01:30:22,928 --> 01:30:25,819 that's the chase it. 1491 01:30:25,819 --> 01:30:26,530 Just follow. 1492 01:30:26,530 --> 01:30:27,480 Follow your dreams. 1493 01:30:27,480 --> 01:30:28,460 Stop. 1494 01:30:28,461 --> 01:30:31,102 You are you're where are we going? 1495 01:30:31,422 --> 01:30:33,123 When when are we awake? 1496 01:30:33,123 --> 01:30:36,764 But at the same time when we're awake it's just like chasing your dreams. 1497 01:30:37,026 --> 01:30:37,576 Follow them. 1498 01:30:37,576 --> 01:30:38,297 That's delusion. 1499 01:30:38,297 --> 01:30:39,319 That's more delusion. 1500 01:30:39,319 --> 01:30:41,180 You're fine. 1501 01:30:41,180 --> 01:30:42,320 Sit down. 1502 01:30:42,381 --> 01:30:43,092 live where you are. 1503 01:30:43,092 --> 01:30:44,933 Just be happy where you are. 1504 01:30:44,933 --> 01:30:45,914 Don't try to be right. 1505 01:30:45,914 --> 01:30:47,124 Just be white. 1506 01:30:47,145 --> 01:30:48,826 You know what I'm Just be white. 1507 01:30:48,826 --> 01:30:49,695 You'll be fine. 1508 01:30:49,695 --> 01:30:51,769 No one's going to yell at you. 1509 01:30:51,769 --> 01:30:52,730 I take that back. 1510 01:30:52,730 --> 01:30:53,430 Just be white. 1511 01:30:53,430 --> 01:30:54,291 You'll be fine. 1512 01:30:54,291 --> 01:30:56,832 Even if people yell at you, you'll still be fine. 1513 01:30:56,933 --> 01:30:58,394 And they're not going even yell at you. 1514 01:30:58,394 --> 01:30:59,675 I don't yell at you. 1515 01:30:59,676 --> 01:31:01,017 No, but it's important. 1516 01:31:01,017 --> 01:31:09,524 I've been, I know we need to wrap up, but I've been sitting with us a lot of like how often white people say I want to be on the right side of history. 1517 01:31:09,585 --> 01:31:11,116 The white side of history. 1518 01:31:11,116 --> 01:31:12,817 And it's just like, I like that. 1519 01:31:12,817 --> 01:31:13,598 Like, don't be right. 1520 01:31:13,598 --> 01:31:14,359 Just be white. 1521 01:31:14,359 --> 01:31:14,942 Just be white. 1522 01:31:14,942 --> 01:31:16,891 You're going to mess up because guess what? 1523 01:31:16,891 --> 01:31:20,534 You were raised in a racist world. 1524 01:31:20,534 --> 01:31:22,216 And that's also chasing a dream. 1525 01:31:22,216 --> 01:31:25,378 I just realized that because if you're trying to be on the right side of history. 1526 01:31:25,378 --> 01:31:25,819 Yeah. 1527 01:31:25,819 --> 01:31:27,593 Well, history is behind us. 1528 01:31:27,593 --> 01:31:30,815 And you're like on the right side in the future when they look back, want to have... 1529 01:31:30,815 --> 01:31:31,365 I get it. 1530 01:31:31,365 --> 01:31:32,025 I like it. 1531 01:31:32,025 --> 01:31:32,636 Fine. 1532 01:31:32,636 --> 01:31:34,156 feel on right side of history. 1533 01:31:34,156 --> 01:31:36,538 is today, does it feel right? 1534 01:31:36,538 --> 01:31:38,199 Do something good? 1535 01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:38,941 I don't know. 1536 01:31:38,941 --> 01:31:43,162 I think there's a lot, there's too much forward dream thinking. 1537 01:31:43,162 --> 01:31:44,022 I'm not today. 1538 01:31:44,022 --> 01:31:45,403 What can we actually do? 1539 01:31:45,403 --> 01:31:54,116 And like the little decisions we make, like doing this podcast and just talking and believing people and not, and questioning when we don't believe people. 1540 01:31:54,383 --> 01:31:56,214 It's not Katniss Everdeen, it's this. 1541 01:31:56,214 --> 01:32:00,288 It's yeah, letting me just say whatever about white people. 1542 01:32:00,288 --> 01:32:07,133 And the like, you know, where it's like, because that's when I think of my husband, it's like, well, I'm not going to let it drop. 1543 01:32:07,374 --> 01:32:09,386 But also neither is he an evil person. 1544 01:32:09,386 --> 01:32:09,966 Right. 1545 01:32:09,966 --> 01:32:12,999 He just needs to do more work on that. 1546 01:32:12,999 --> 01:32:13,209 know? 1547 01:32:13,209 --> 01:32:14,300 Right. 1548 01:32:14,300 --> 01:32:17,782 And that's where I think we can help. 1549 01:32:17,782 --> 01:32:20,264 And I think now it's my job to just. 1550 01:32:20,264 --> 01:32:24,846 Radicalize all the white women to be dangerous on purpose instead of being dangerous on accident. 1551 01:32:24,846 --> 01:32:30,388 always said white women were angry I saw y'all were angry with the pink hats and everything like that and I love it. 1552 01:32:30,388 --> 01:32:42,814 I just want to turn you Okay, point it in this direction because right now it's just like elbows elbows elbows And I need you to put the elbows down pick up culting of a Marion 1553 01:32:42,814 --> 01:32:46,106 Pick up a book that tells you how look at it. 1554 01:32:46,106 --> 01:32:48,176 We have our book, baby 1555 01:32:48,501 --> 01:32:51,165 like, Rebecca has an essay in this book. 1556 01:32:51,165 --> 01:32:59,513 Rebecca was also the sensitivity reader of the book, a thing Taylor Swift has apparently never heard of. 1557 01:32:59,513 --> 01:33:02,256 And I've been asked this a lot, like, what's a sensitivity reader? 1558 01:33:02,256 --> 01:33:11,664 And that's when you ask yourself what I or my identities, and then even though you did the best that you can, 1559 01:33:11,665 --> 01:33:20,021 you go find someone from a completely different identity and you ask them to read your stuff, just in case you did some silly things. 1560 01:33:20,081 --> 01:33:21,281 And that's all. 1561 01:33:21,522 --> 01:33:28,787 And one of the things I actually learned from Rebecca being a sensitivity reader was acknowledge the whiteness right up front. 1562 01:33:28,787 --> 01:33:36,333 And I think, I honestly think our author's note is one of the things I love the most where we're like, this is the percept, this is our perception. 1563 01:33:36,333 --> 01:33:40,147 This is what we're trying to do, but also you can't stop here. 1564 01:33:40,147 --> 01:33:41,409 Like you have to keep going. 1565 01:33:41,409 --> 01:33:43,251 Further with the work. 1566 01:33:43,251 --> 01:33:50,939 So thank you all for looking at half of our faces today while we had this lovely discussion. 1567 01:33:50,939 --> 01:33:57,786 like and subscribe, follow Rebecca's Patreon and reorder the book attached here. 1568 01:33:57,786 --> 01:33:59,007 So pretty. 1569 01:33:59,010 --> 01:34:00,412 And the audience went, why?