[SPEAKER_01]: Five, six, seven, eight, Jenny.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the first episode of Gilmour to Watch with Tara.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Tara.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm so glad you're here.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited about this segment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, as we talked about earlier this week, if you listen to this week's GTC, this is a new segment that Haley and I kind of dreamt up together as [SPEAKER_01]: A bit of a tandem segment to go more to read, which Haley gets to host with y'all once a month and bring on a writer to talk about a book that has a trope that's similar to the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all know and love Gilmore Girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought it would be really fun as someone who's not necessarily an avid reader, and I'm sure that there are people out there who might not be avid readers like me, but who instead prefer to consume other stories via watchable medium like film or television.

[SPEAKER_01]: to have a segment and so we decided to start Gilmore to watch and I'm so glad that y'all are here.

[SPEAKER_01]: Our first episode is really special and I feel so honored that I got to have a conversation with this writer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have Sarah Lambert who is the creator and executive producer of Ginny and Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: which has been compared to Gilmore girls in a lot of different ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in some ways, I think it is so justified and so to Sarah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in other ways, there are a lot of differences.

[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, because this show is about a young mother and her teenage daughter and them navigating, being in a small town, Jenny navigating high school, Georgia trying to navigate how to be her mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a myriad of other things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's no surprise that it was compared to Gilmore girls to our girlies, Laurel and Rory.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you've seen the show, you know you know there are a lot of differences.

[SPEAKER_01]: The story is a bit darker.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, as I usually do on Gilmouray visited, I am going to read the Netflix description of Jenny and Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: It reads Free Spirit of Georgia and her two kids, Jenny and Austin, move north in search of a fresh start, but find that the road to new beginnings can be bumpy.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you haven't checked it out yet, I highly recommend if you're Gilmouray's fan, I think you'll really enjoy the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I also think you'll really enjoy this conversation between Sarah and I.

We had such a wonderful time together chatting about her beginnings.

[SPEAKER_01]: How she became a writer.

[SPEAKER_01]: If she has a history with Gilmore girls and what led her show, Jenny and Georgia to Netflix.

[SPEAKER_01]: Gilmore girls may or may have not played a role in Sarah's show landing on Netflix.

[SPEAKER_01]: So without further ado, please welcome Sarah Lambert.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, welcome to Gilmour to Watch.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's our inaugural episode of the segment on Gilmour to say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So happy to have you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to be here.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like my show's perfect for the inaugural inaugural.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't believe I got in on the first try inaugural inaugural inaugural.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a writer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: inaugural.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just will get whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who cares?

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, episode just because obviously my show gets compared to Kimmore girls all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to dive in to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course we're here to talk about Jenny and Georgia as you just released season three.

[SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I watched it of course when it first came out was so excited to see that, you know, it's still going strong.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have a season four coming out.

[SPEAKER_01]: I saw on your Instagram that you guys are already in the writer's room.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're already working hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're exciting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm taking a break to do this right now with you, but like how my mind is struggling.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm working on episodes five and six right now where I'm having a writing day, wrestling with something that I'm trying to decide who belongs in episode five or six.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm glad that we give you a little brain break, as you said.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I need it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I need a little re-inspiration.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for those of, I mean, I'll do a whole intro before this, but for anybody at home who may not be familiar with you, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what role you play in the Jenny and Georgia universe?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: My name is Sarah Lambert.

[SPEAKER_02]: I created Jenny and Georgia.

[SPEAKER_02]: I EP and right on Jenny and Georgia.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's who she is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which is amazing because you achieved that at such a young age, which I think is so inspiring.

[SPEAKER_01]: You pitched the show and it was picked up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe in twenty-eighteen.

[SPEAKER_01]: I spent the weekend listening to other interviews.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was just kind of get a little, a little vibe check.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was twenty-eighteen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then the show ended.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's twenty-eighteen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And until twenty-twenty-one.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there was a nice long stretch there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get into that, let's rewind the tape.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to know, especially because your show is such a coming-of-age show.

[SPEAKER_01]: and also you deal with and tackle a lot of high school issues and tropes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Who was Sarah Lampard in high school?

[SPEAKER_01]: What was she into?

[SPEAKER_01]: What was she watching?

[SPEAKER_01]: What was she reading?

[SPEAKER_01]: What was she doing?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I got about a triggering question.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, you're okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who was I in high school?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny because I just had some of my high school friends come visit me this past weekend and we love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were making the joke that like I was always known as my friend Dana.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was always known as Dana's friend Sarah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was a little bit shy in high school.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was a little quiet and this is my perspective of myself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if other people would have agreed with it because I did get into a little bit of trouble.

[SPEAKER_02]: for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I was a theater kid, I did theater.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I had like a bunch of different group of friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like I was like a bounced around a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: My high school was massive.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was huge.

[SPEAKER_02]: I went to New York, which is what Wellsbury High is based off of in the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like to the down to the logo of like the Wellsbury High.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I loved.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was great.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have a water bottle from season, I don't even remember either two or three that has the Welsbury Tiger on it, which was like merch like our rap gift for the crew.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was in my kitchen and my high school friends are visiting me this weekend and they were like, [SPEAKER_02]: Like they thought it was from our high school and then they realized the fictional TV show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's so closely related.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that I love that you based the town of Wellsbury on the town you were from.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's what produces the best and most authentic believable kinds of towns in television and film is when it's based on a real place and I have heard you speak to that in other interviews you've done about taking the components of your small town and building it into Wellsbury of so smart.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well actually Newton is technically a city.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's like big.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are two major high schools.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Wellsbury is kind of a combination of Newton and Lexington.

[SPEAKER_02]: My best friend growing up lived in Lexington.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was there a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like blue farm cafe is based off like a real restaurant in Lexington.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's still there.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it was there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so it's like a Newton Lexington hybrid.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would say.

[SPEAKER_03]: Love.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then named after like Wellsley.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's so cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what were you watching growing up?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know that a lot of television writers are like, oh, I was inspired by XYZ because I loved watching this and I wanted to recreate that feeling.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know you've spoken to, you know, diving into scripted television because you wanted to write a show that you would watch.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what were you watching in high school in middle school?

[SPEAKER_01]: What inspired you?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I definitely was watching Gilmour Girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I love Gilmour Girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love Gilmour Girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: I watched, honestly, the show that really inspired me to write was, it was really too.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Love.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it was Skins, UK Skins.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: That show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have never heard that show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I've never heard that show.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard that show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Stop.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I've never heard that show.

[SPEAKER_01]: What's it about?

[SPEAKER_02]: Skins.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's about a bunch of high schoolers in the UK who are like, not doing well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, they like get into a lot of mischief and they're all struggling with different various things But it's just like it's gorgeously shot and it like really captures like the feeling of youth and like it really has this energy to it and a lot of people have gone on from it to become famous like Nicholas Holters from skin like half the cast is in game of thrones So yeah, but it and I think [SPEAKER_02]: I look, I didn't work on skin.

[SPEAKER_02]: So everything I say right now is like a vague, a vague truth that I read somewhere that might be part of the real truth.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like, essentially, I do remember they hired kids to help write that show.

[SPEAKER_02]: No way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I saw that somewhere.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so like we'll fact check.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah fact check that but yeah, no and like you can you can tell anyways, I love that show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just absolutely love that show and then Veronica Mars was a big one and then I watched a lot of reality TV also.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's part of your origin story.

[SPEAKER_01]: What were you watching growing up like what reality TV shows?

[SPEAKER_02]: real world.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like pierced my nose because like Irwan and I think that's my name in real world Las Vegas.

[SPEAKER_02]: Had a nose piercing and I slept some senseless.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like embarrassing things like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I really did like survivor too, but I've gotten into survivor more and like my old age.

[SPEAKER_02]: Survivor is having a emergency.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like in like the early two thousands when it first came out, I remember watching survivor with my dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then big brother would come on afterwards and we wouldn't watch it because I was probably too young for that watching that now loving it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I have fallen off the survivor train but people love it especially with traders being in like like one of the new shows and so many survivor contestants coming on to that show.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like a lot of people are like survivors having its moment again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Traders is the best show ever.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also, I play Mafia.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like during the pandemic, every Friday night, me and like twelve to twenty of my friends would log on to Zoom and like have a Mafia game.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like, Traders is like really speaking to us.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to group chat with some of my friends called like Boston Rob fan club where we just like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my God.

[SPEAKER_02]: Survivor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, true daddy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, God.

[SPEAKER_02]: And from Boston, so like, you know, I dig those vibes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love.

[SPEAKER_01]: What are you watching right now besides traders?

[SPEAKER_02]: right now besides traders well I just I'm very excited about the new season of summer I turned pretty I though yeah very lightly text with Jenny Han just if I like if I'm gonna hire a director she's worked with like I would love to be her friend like I love you I'll watch your show soon I'm like whatever like that's a great one thank you [SPEAKER_02]: I love her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love the empire.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's been able to build for herself.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very impressed by that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very excited for the most recent season of Summer I turned pretty.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I've been watching obviously I'm excited for this new season of traders.

[SPEAKER_02]: What did I just, oh, I just finished watching.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were liars which reduced me to like a puddle of nothing for a day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen that yet?

[SPEAKER_02]: I have not seen it yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where is it?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's on, I want to say prime, and like it, I was like, like, in New It, as I was watching his face on a book, which I didn't read the book, is in my bad writer.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then, um, but I watched the show, and I was like kind of into it, and then it got to the final episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when I tell you, I've not been hit that hard by a TV show.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was devastating.

[SPEAKER_02]: And speaking of shows with the word lies in the title, I love tell me lies.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's like one of my favorite shows above time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm obsessed with my get off on a high [SPEAKER_02]: I did read that book.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, you were a good writer for that one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was a good writer for that one.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I read it after I saw the TV show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna be so honest.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've done that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've done a lot of big speaking of lies.

[SPEAKER_01]: After I watched big little lies, I was like, oh, I should be the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know what happens.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Also pretty little liars.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's like, oh, I'm just obsessed.

[SPEAKER_02]: Any show that has word liar in it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I know like that show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he's made for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, love lies.

[SPEAKER_01]: Love lies.

[SPEAKER_01]: So tell us a little bit about you are theater girlie.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're in high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: What are your aspirations?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you ever think that you wanted to write for television or were you really gunning for an acting career?

[SPEAKER_01]: And what did that look like and how did it lead you to LA?

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually wanted to direct.

[SPEAKER_02]: I directed my senior year.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like this very competitive.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like my show was big and theater.

[SPEAKER_02]: We put on twelve shows a year.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was like really intense.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like five of them or so were student directed.

[SPEAKER_02]: You had to apply and do this whole application process.

[SPEAKER_02]: And me and my friend Dana, who I keep referencing in this interview.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dana's friend Sarah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sarah's friend Dana.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's how she's going to be known on this podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: We can still find it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't know how to respond anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: But she's a teacher now actually.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's a teacher in Boston and she was telling me stories I guess her students like don't believe her that we're friends like you don't know the creator of Jeannie in Georgia and like she made me do like a little video for them like I'm real.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know Dana.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have Dana's friend Sarah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't know how cool your teacher is.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'll be in a student's affairs in this podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dana's cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I applied for colleges for like really anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I applied for a bunch of different scholarships to like different colleges.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like directing theater really like any way I could get in and then I went to Mulember College which I loved for theater and writing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I like didn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't say I ever sat down and really thought like, what's my future gonna be?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I was thinking more like, what's the most fun college gonna be?

[SPEAKER_02]: Where?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I remember I was deciding to feel like more, I won't throw them under the bus.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, already schools that I got into that we're just more conservatory programs.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I don't know, like, there aren't gonna be any frats or like football players there.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like, to be clear, like, I don't play sports, like, and I wasn't necessarily, but I sometimes like, be around.

[SPEAKER_02]: that energy.

[SPEAKER_01]: You wanted the true college experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know, the men and so I was like great.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I went and the men and the men and so and the parties.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I went, yeah, I like I've never been good at like thinking long term about my future really.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I went to the school, I ended up loving it and doing amazing, but it didn't have a TV writing program.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't even [SPEAKER_02]: Think about that but um no so I studied English and theater and then I moved out to California and I didn't know anyone I had a roommate from school who had gone to school with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: We were the only two girls who were the only two people in the school who moved out to California because it was such a theater school It had great theater program everyone else went to New York like to do Broadway and we were the only ones who went to LA and I know and so I was a waitress when I first got to LA I was living off of like peanut butter cliff bars and like I didn't have a mattress for a long time like the very typical [SPEAKER_02]: L.A.

[SPEAKER_00]: store.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so then I got my first job through that friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: She got an assistant job at paradigm, which was a talent agency and I got an assistant job being a manager for some talent manager who had like clients who were like really big in the nineties had been big since then.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was just like this weird.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like in his garage.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a weird setup.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I got a different job working in reality TV at a reality TV production company as in a [SPEAKER_02]: development system.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then I just kind of bounced around from there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was really smart for you and I don't know if this was intentional or inadvertent if it was just the job that was right there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But being in development, it sounds like it led you to the right places that you needed to be in to have Jenny and George land in the spot and it's current home.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think it was a little delusional.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was just like, yeah, like if I can put myself in the path of projects being sold, then I won't have to like climb the ranks in the way that is more typical.

[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if I would recommend that as a strategy looking back on it because I do think it set me as a disadvantage when I did sell the show because I didn't have all of that training [SPEAKER_02]: of, like, understanding how to work a writer's room, having, like, worked my way up that, like, so many of my friends had all of this, like, knowledge, just institutional knowledge, having gotten those assistant jobs, which, by the way, I did try to get.

[SPEAKER_02]: Those jobs are hard to get.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yes, they are.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're very, very challenging to get.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're almost harder to get than writer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're just hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Every job is hard to get in Hollywood.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, and even harder now, that the landscape television has shifted so deeply.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's, [SPEAKER_01]: jarring and we talked about that a lot in the last couple of years especially with the writer strike and the sagstrike yeah we talked about that a lot on this podcast because I don't think people really truly understand how difficult it is to break into the industry in general and then how much harder it became one streaming really took over and so I'm glad that Jenny and Georgia I would say got in like right as the writers the doors were closing I got a they picked my show up for ten episodes they did a ten episode pick up based off the pilot script I had written [SPEAKER_02]: That just doesn't happen anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: But here's what I'll say to that, because it is really hopeless.

[SPEAKER_02]: It has that air of it right now in the industry, and everyone feels it.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I will say, even if you have to take a step back to earn a paycheck, because that's why I got a reality TV.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to be able to stay in LA.

[SPEAKER_02]: keep working at the stream if I don't kind of like take a detour in reality TV just keep writing like just never stop writing because like I just think that's really really important and whether or not you're able to pay your bills from writing or not almost doesn't matter I mean it's easy for me to say but like I just think if you're a writer you should be writing and that's the only way you'll feel good about it yeah [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's so true.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you never know when those opportunities will fall into your lap, come knocking, whatever, that may be.

[SPEAKER_01]: On that topic, I know that Gilmour Girls a year in the life played a huge role in Jenny and Georgia landing in the hands of Netflix executives.

[SPEAKER_01]: So can you talk to us a little bit about that experience?

[SPEAKER_01]: What it was like, where the inception of the show came from?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know it came from a writing class you were doing at UCLA, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then that led you eventually to the hands of someone at Netflix.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I worked in reality TV, like I said, I worked in reality TV development.

[SPEAKER_02]: So what your job was when you were in reality TV is just to come up with like all of these different ideas of like worlds, characters, and then just like I that are real that exists because that's the you know reality.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I applied the same school of thought to my scripts as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just came up with one pages for all of these different scripted ideas, just knowing that if like, if ever the opportunity were to arise to pitch one to my boss or to pitch one to a writer or to write it myself or whatever, I would have this folder of just like, [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a few pictures of inspiration and like a few little paragraphs of just like what this idea could be.

[SPEAKER_02]: So Jenny and Georgia started out as a one-pageer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of writers do this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like this is unique to me, but I really did approach writing the same way I approached coming up with reality TV ideas.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, and so I had this one page and I hadn't written anything in a long time.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was getting really down on myself so I signed myself up for an online writing course so that I would have deadlines and also I think it's just always good to be refreshed about like the things you should be thinking about when you're writing like, you know, by act one, this should happen because I'm just like not a very organized person.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really format things out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just kind of felt like this is the mood I'm in.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is the scene I want to write and like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's good to have those reminders.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, I signed myself up for this course.

[SPEAKER_02]: I picked this one sheet as the one to turn into the script.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I gave it to my boss, who was very supportive of me, which I'm so lucky for.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's an EP on the project now.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he, like, for Christmas, he gave me a Jewish.

[SPEAKER_02]: But for the holidays, he gave me like a new MacBook and like, final draft.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like he was very, very supportive of me being a writer.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, he's been a, wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Jeff Taller is his name.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then he, I've had a lot of really supportive bosses.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very lucky in that regard.

[SPEAKER_02]: But so he read it when it was done.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, would you read the script I wrote?

[SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, yes, and he did.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, this is actually pretty good.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so he sent it to some other producers.

[SPEAKER_02]: And one of them had just had lunch with one of the execs over at Netflix.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, yeah, you know, a year in the life.

[SPEAKER_02]: The Gilmour Girls Revival did really well for us.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that came out in twenty seventeen.

[SPEAKER_02]: twenty sixteen yeah and so this is you know twenty seventeen twenty and they're like did really well for us like we're really excited by it and we're looking for something that we can make that similar like a mother daughter show that we can make for cheap and they're like I just read that I just read that script and literally just read it really have that script for you and so how they sent it so yeah so and then it was like on from there was my first ever pitch it was crazy and my mom my mom calls it my [SPEAKER_02]: eight year overnight Cinderella's success story because it was like, you know, eight years of pop and around different, different crazy jobs in Hollywood, assistant jobs in reality TV and not knowing if it was ever going to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then when it did happen, it was that moment of just timing meets having the product.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I say always keep writing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you never know when those opportunities will come knocking.

[SPEAKER_01]: And being in the right place at the right time is half the battle.

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously being talented, having the work, et cetera, having the ideas is also a contributing factor, but right place, right time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that really, really works.

[SPEAKER_02]: You really do have to tune out the outside noise of everyone else's opinion.

[SPEAKER_02]: You just have, and not to a full degree, like, of course.

[SPEAKER_02]: other people's opinion matter and you should take in feedback.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you have to know that you can do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like you just do because no one else is going to tell you you can.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it has to live inside of you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It just has to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I remember I was in LA one Sunday and I got a calendar invitation from my mom.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the only like attendees were me, my mom and my dad.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the calendar invite was a conference call.

[SPEAKER_02]: The title was discussed Sarah's career slash future.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh no.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like and they like it's like every every artist's worst nightmare.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like oh no my parents want to talk about my future.

[SPEAKER_02]: of making you know money and struggling and just like Haiti of a backup plan and they've always been so supportive of me and really believe in me but when even like the people who are your number one supporters are just worried for your future like you really have to know that you can that you have a story to share that you can do this if you're given opportunity yeah absolutely [SPEAKER_01]: And I think any artist freelancer can relate to that when they're so passionate about their craft.

[SPEAKER_01]: And especially when you have really supportive parents, I do as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very lucky.

[SPEAKER_01]: But they have had moments where they're like, so how are you feeling?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it is kind of jarring, but you have to remain steadfast in your pursuit of what you love.

[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, more times than not, those are the moments right before something bigs about to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like that was the case for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think a few more years after.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but still in the grand scheme.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you look back your life, you're like in a couple short years, I will be the creator of a hit show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have like a situation happen where my apartment exploded because the people on dress were cooking drugs and we were like homeless for a week.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like we didn't know anywhere to go because they like read tagged our apartment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like this might not be structure.

[SPEAKER_02]: We sound worse.

[SPEAKER_02]: And my car broke down the same day and my boss quit and was like, I don't know if you'll still have a job.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, uh, and like, when that moment happened and I still didn't leave LA, my mom was like, I knew you were never leaving LA.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the Netflix execs pick up your show with the expectation that, you know, mother daughter content and a show that is very similar to that of Gilmore Girls is something that they can translate the audience from like, [SPEAKER_01]: that to your show.

[SPEAKER_01]: With such a ravenous fan base, like the one Gilmourkel's has, which it is, it is, the testament to this podcast is that, like, it is a very rapist fan base.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's only gotten more popular as we've gotten farther away from the show's, the show airing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that something that you leaned into when you were writing the show?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like hoping that it would find that similar audience, if not the same audience.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't say that I was thinking about the audience when I was writing it, to be honest.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've heard through several stories just in this brief conversation, how little foresight.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just not blaming.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was really writing it because it's what I wanted to write and it was interesting to me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would say there's a few thoughts I have on Gilmour Girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: One is it would never get made today, which is heartbreaking, because like there's, yeah, I mean Amy Sherman Palinino says same thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dashi, yeah, there was no [SPEAKER_02]: I met her recently, by the way, and I was like, I was free.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I went to a talk back.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was doing, but it was the WGA event.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you had to sign up for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: My mom was in town visiting because she was in town actually to go to the season three premiere of Jenny and Georgia with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then this was happening on like the night after my mom was like, we have to go.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's one of your idol.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's so fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Haley and I actually went to Paley Fest out in LA.

[SPEAKER_01]: in March.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we got a spot on the red carpet.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we got to her.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's down.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's more and grand.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kelly Bishop.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sarah, it was.

[SPEAKER_01]: I cons I cons all around.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they were so wonderful.

[SPEAKER_01]: Generous with their time, we could only ask them one question because it was like right near the end.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're trying to start the event.

[SPEAKER_01]: But holy shit was it cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's so cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well her speech was so cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean it was so cool just like listening to her speak and how her mind works is brilliant and my mom like was like you have to say hi to her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like no I absolutely for sure do not I do not have to say hi to her mom like do not do not mother me do not do this my mom was like [SPEAKER_02]: Amy, this is Sarah!

[SPEAKER_02]: She's a writer too and I was like, mother!

[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna find a writer too!

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure that she loved that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, maybe, I'm not going to speak for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was like, yeah, she loved it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Love to maybe maybe she's strong.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, but I love her.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's such an eye-catching genius.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was doing this having kind of been doing it myself now like I just have so much respect for any any showrunner, but like specifically female showrunners.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's rough and yeah, I give all the respect in the world for her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very sad that a twelve was canceled after one season.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was picked up for two season order.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so for trying to cut it off at the knees, you have to give a show a season to find audience.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then yeah, and go more girls back to what you were originally saying, go more girls after season one, if it was made today, who knows what the future would have been.

[SPEAKER_01]: because it was such a slow burn.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was twenty two episodes of slow burn and story building.

[SPEAKER_02]: They just never would buy it today.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they wouldn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they just only room for that anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, they don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: They wouldn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because honestly, because there are so many platforms now, it's like they need shows that are going to break, you know, have like a hooky edge, whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I'm wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to be wrong on this one.

[SPEAKER_02]: And because I just think it's such a beautiful show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's such a female show, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's all about these relationships and the mother daughter and the generation.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's sad because she has said it herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, Gilmore Girls would not be made today.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of even Lauren Graham, you know, they all talk about how it was lightning and a bottle and it came at the right time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that can be true of any hit series that if it was pitched at a different time or, you know, produced at a different time, it may have had a different fate.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're glad that we have it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're glad we have it now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that it's only been made more popular by the fact that it's on a streaming service.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think a ton of shows that were popular, then would have been made now.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you could, I don't think you could pitch friends now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Although, actually, the pre-shows just came out that were very similar to friends.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's all derived from some of the most iconic shows that took place in the nineties in the early two thousands.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the landscape has just shifted so so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: But was there anything else that you had to say about the morals?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was just going to say you asked if I was thinking about the Gilmore Girls audience when I was writing the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the answer is no, because I don't think it's just one audience.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I think that there is an appetite for content that, okay, I call them like golden shows.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like the color of the show is golden.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's rosy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like [SPEAKER_02]: there's a there's like a beauty to it and I feel like what gets prioritized especially to like what gets prioritized are blue shows where it's like the shows are just colored blue there's a more masculine bend to them there's like a there's it's darkness with with the absence of light over the absence of hope and it just has a very heavy feel to them and I love shows like that like absolutely but [SPEAKER_02]: To me, I feel like there is a, there's just a need for more shows that have a little bit more, you know, character, hope, like, micro moments of like what it's like to just like be a certain age, be with your friends, be with your mom.

[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, my show has some soapy elements, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: There's murder.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: but I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that there could be like seventeen thousand more shows like my show and like the audience would come for all of them and like I don't think it's in you have to pick one like I think if anything like they keep elbowing room for more and more and more like why can there only be one mother daughter show that's that's great like that was the only thing that was bothering me when people kept comparing season one to Gilmore girls because it was like how sad that we only get one mother daughter show [SPEAKER_01]: You know the thing is, is that I do think Netflix positioned the show, knowing the backstory, knowing that they were hoping to, you know, take the audience from a year in the life from Gilmore Girls and usher in more mother-daughter content knowing how popular that was.

[SPEAKER_01]: and positioning it in the log line because I do remember talking about your show when it aired in twenty twenty one because I am a huge Gilmore girls fan yeah and of course they saw the log line for the show and it was you know a young mother and her teenage daughter moved to a picturesque new England town and I was like oh [SPEAKER_01]: So Gilmore girls.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, like that was my first thought.

[SPEAKER_01]: But then watching the show and recognizing that it was very different.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you have somewhat of the premise of Gilmore girls, but not really because there's so much backstory that is completely opposite of Gilmore girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Georgia's story is so different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Her upbringing was so different.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, she has another child.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about, of course, the show is called Jenny and Georgia, but it's also about Austin.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about her past.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's about [SPEAKER_01]: you know, all of these other people that are ushered in its characters along the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of this cross between like Gilmore Girls meets Desperate Housewives meets Euphoria.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you're dealing with a lot of teenage drama and, you know, isolating tropes that may have existed in the early two thousands, but are very prominent today.

[SPEAKER_01]: And things that worried and deal with, Jenny and Warrior, too, very different characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, here's what I'll say.

[SPEAKER_02]: The original concept for Jenny and Georgia was the idea of a six.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was honestly the scene that most inspired me to create Jenny and Georgia was have you seen the movie speak with Kristen Stewart?

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like a lifetime original movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, I haven't.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a girl and she gets raped and it's this horrible, you know, she loses her friends and it's bad but she's walking down the hallway and it's just like everyone's looking at her after this event takes place and I was like something about just that image of a girl walking down the hallway and then I thought, what if a girl's walking down the hallway and everyone's looking at her differently?

[SPEAKER_02]: not because of anything that happened with her but because her home life was suddenly on display in a way that was new not only to the world but a little bit to her and then it also begged the question of how much did she know and if her mother was like outed for being a murderer and suddenly this like very public trial happened so season three was actually the original idea for Jenny and Georgia wow and then I like backtracked it and [SPEAKER_02]: But here's what I'll say too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was aware of the young mother daughter comparison to Gilmore girls, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I threw the line in the pilot like we're like the Gilmore girls, but with bigger boobs.

[SPEAKER_01]: But with bigger boobs.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing is you got ahead of it and you you called it on a media land like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, Joe was very Luke coded a hundred percent course.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are a lot of character comparisons and you I'm sure you've seen them online.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because a lot of the characters that get comparison, I actually don't agree with because a lot of the characters are based off people from my real life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Joe, I'll give Joe a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because when writing the show, not just Gilmore Girls, but really like all those shows that formed me when I was growing up, like I really leaned into the, because what I loved about Buffy and why Buffy made me want to be a writer is it inverse the trope.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like this is a blonde cheerleader who's perky and fun and just wants like a boyfriend and a normal life and she's tasked with this impossibly heavy weight of saving the world from demons.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's, and it's, it inverses the trope on its head.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I like to do in the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why Ginny loses her virginity in the pilot episode, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to be this Dawson's Creek, like her virginity is like, and I love Dawson's Creek, but like I was taking all these shows that inspired me and taking, and so I wanted the show to feel nostalgic.

[SPEAKER_02]: and honor all those shows that I was raised on, but then also invert the stereotypes and invert the tropes and be something a little bit new that hadn't happened yet.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was both comforting and familiar and surprising and unique all at once.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's so smart because that's what makes for unique television.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want like a lot of events repeat of another show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very clear to me that you didn't want Jenny and Georgia to be Gilmore girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which I think right why would you want to copy paste I couldn't I mean only Amy can write like that so you know like I and I even if I wanted to I probably couldn't know I completely agree because like I said when I started watching the show I was like it was nothing like good more roles [SPEAKER_01]: you know this small town yes some of the characters may be familiar yes but we're talking about a completely different ballgame and one of the things that I really loved in one of the interviews I listen to you do is you talked about the cringiness like the response of cringiness when it comes to especially that first scene and Jenny losing her virginity and some of the things that these teenagers say and what I loved [SPEAKER_01]: Because that was one of the questions our listeners asked is like, let's talk about the cringe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the cringe factor of some of these teenagers.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love to talk about the cringe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about the cringe.

[SPEAKER_01]: I loved your response to that, but share it with our listeners.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember what I said in that interview.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you basically said.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember what I said.

[SPEAKER_01]: You basically said that like that is being a teenager.

[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's totally being a teenager.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's cringy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's being a teenager.

[SPEAKER_02]: But here's what I'll say about the cringe that I adjusted after season one.

[SPEAKER_02]: I viewed season one as because I said nostalgic earlier.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was also being nostalgic for my time in high school.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was a little bit looking at these characters through the lens of like that's not me anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like the high school part of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's a little like look how [SPEAKER_02]: You know, look how cringe we were when we were that age.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then the audience did not like that and I understand why because it's like, that is your audience.

[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to be made fun of.

[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to be looked out like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like they are that age.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so what I did is I took out that like little degree of separation between season one and season two where it was like, okay, we're going to respect these teenage characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a joke that we're in on.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a joke at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is the reality of being that age and we're going to like treat it as such.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted everyone in on the joke of the cringe in season one and then really listened to the feedback from the audience.

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, about having realizing we were alienating our core audience by making them feel like separated or like they weren't responding to it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I was like, I heard, let's change it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think you know what's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this kind of tax onto a question I had for you later, it's interesting that you're able to kind of get a fan reaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that anybody who is writing television and producing it before social media, they didn't get that really.

[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't really get a fan response.

[SPEAKER_01]: Numbers were the fan response, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like who was tuning in?

[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're getting more of a fan reaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: As you started to navigate, [SPEAKER_01]: kind of like stepping away from writing on your own, being like a solitary writer and welcoming in other voices in a writer's room.

[SPEAKER_01]: What was the fan response like?

[SPEAKER_01]: And how did you implement that into the writer's room?

[SPEAKER_01]: If at all, did you guys take the fan reaction into consideration outside of what you just explained about the teenage cringe?

[SPEAKER_02]: In the writers room, we don't super talk about the fan reaction that much I think I'm more concerned.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when we're hiring writers, because we've always had a writer's room, like season one, season two, season three, and now season four.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in season four, it's great because every single writer has worked on the show of everyone's returning.

[SPEAKER_02]: So everyone knows the characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it's phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, love.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would say when we're interviewing writers to hire them to be in the writer's room, we more ask them, like, I ask them, like, what don't you like about the show?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's almost as important to me, if not, no, they're equally important about what they love about the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you want the writers who are working on the show to love the show, be fans of the show, connect to the show, be also want them to be able to think critically about the show, and honestly hate some things about the show, so they push to make it better.

[SPEAKER_02]: right and so so I'm not necessarily looking at like the fan response and the writers I personally look at the fan response and like spend time looking at that and you have to be careful I just do it I just love it I do it out of enjoyment on [SPEAKER_02]: It just makes me feel connected to the audience because I come from a theater world.

[SPEAKER_02]: You want to hear the laughter as it's going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: You want to hear the pause at the end.

[SPEAKER_02]: When you do TV, you don't do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're sitting alone and you're with other people working on it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's going from the writer's room to filming, to editing, to working on the music, to [SPEAKER_02]: You know, color correcting.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, and then you put it on to the world and you're like, alone in your apartment when it hits the internet.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you're like, uh-huh?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's really- So it's really gonna go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I really love like watching all the TikToks of people like responding to certain moments in the show because it makes me feel like I can, it's like being in the audience of like the theater when hearing people laugh and anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: our gasburg cry or whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah I love that but we don't really include that in the writer's room because I think you you walk a risky line of fan service and you don't want to ever cheapen the show by letting the fans sway it too much that being said I think it's really important to hear you know what you're doing right where you're doing wrong all of that from fans so it's a balance for sure but in the writer's room it's more about what the writers think than what the fans think [SPEAKER_01]: love and you know Amy has spoken to that as well that she feels very grateful that she didn't have access to what people were thinking she's like I don't know what people were thinking I was just gonna write what I wanted and I think that that's so important you kind of have to quiet the noise [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, but I'm grateful I have it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm grateful I have it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't even help it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I think it's so powerful to be able to directly see the impact of what you're doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a blessing.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably a blessing and a curse.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: The neck and stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, like I'll read certain things that I'm like, man, fair.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right, fair.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're only human.

[SPEAKER_02]: You got us.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was one that came out where it was like in season three, and like sometimes they're heavier than this, but a light is the one that I read was one of the fans was like in season three, Gil, Gil mentions his parents are like in Michigan and get him a job.

[SPEAKER_02]: But in season two, when Austin was doing his family tree, Gil said his parents were dead.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, whoops.

[SPEAKER_01]: wait that's so funny because we talk about plot holes a lot on our show and this was a little different because Gilmore rolls was spanned over the course if you know however many years [SPEAKER_01]: They were writing episodically for like, twenty two episodes, seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like, they were like, oh, yeah, we forgot that we wrote that in season one.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just so funny to us to like, look back.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it keeps them engaged.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm usually pretty good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I have OCDA.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I have like an encyclopped, I like remember how we line as delivered from the actor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I remember, yeah, I'm usually really, really good at remit and at that one flip by myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, you're only human.

[SPEAKER_01]: So speaking to the writing, one of our listeners asked, how did you and the writers prepare to navigate the complexities of a white mom raising a POC child?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, we made sure we had a very diverse room.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was first and foremost because we knew that we were going to be dealing with topics that weren't my lived experience.

[SPEAKER_02]: And as much as I can be like, well, you know, this is my hometown.

[SPEAKER_02]: These are influence from like [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people I grew up with and whatever way at the same time, that was just gonna be a huge blind spot for me, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So we knew, for me, what I wanted from Jeannie and Georgia is I wanted two characters who really, really loved each other, but we're never gonna fully understand the other, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, Georgia's never gonna understand what it's like for Jeannie to navigate the world as a young black woman.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Jeannie's never gonna understand what Georgia went through as a child, because Georgia protected her from going through any similar thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: and keeps on secrets from her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there was just always going to be a great propensity to misunderstand and hurt one another, even though they loved each other so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: And especially for a character like Georgia, Georgia feels like she owns her children.

[SPEAKER_02]: Their extensions of her, they're part of herself because she's living in a trauma response from everything she went to when she was fourteen.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, and, you know, and that's not the case and that's also harmful and then Jenny feels voiceless and she feels invalidated and her experience doesn't matter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, so all of that is just talked about in the writer's room a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, we have a lot of discussions about this in the writer's room because it's the heart of the show is the relationship between each other, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I loved that in one interview you said there are three main characters, Jenny, Georgia and Jenny and Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that that's so powerful.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's shifted my perspective on Gilmore girls and because like I've never really thought of it that way, it's lower library and lower library because those are the characters that you really root for throughout the show in different ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course with Jenny and Georgia, it's very, very complicated.

[SPEAKER_02]: I actually think Gilmour Girls is a love triangle between Emily, Lorelie and Rory.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that at different moments, they're aligned differently.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, at different points.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could totally see it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Gilmour Girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's funny.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talk a lot about about this on the show that like, it's Gilmour Girls and we constantly think about Lorelie and Rory, but there is a third Gilmour Girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if you read her book, Kelly's book, the third Gilmour Girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I love Kelly.

[SPEAKER_02]: That character is my grandmother.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: You would love her book especially as a theater girl because she talks a lot about a chorus line her roots in dancing and performing on Broadway.

[SPEAKER_01]: She also does her own audiobook and that is a great listen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm not like a super big leader, girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a listener.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I loved listening to her book, hearing her own words, and then reading it, of course, such a different experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So definitely check that out.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it is true.

[SPEAKER_01]: She is the third Gilmore girl in someone that we often, as a fandom, forget to include when we talk about Gilmore girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, oh, the Gilmore girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about Loreline Bray.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a third member of that trio.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's very important.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everything that Laura Li does is in conversation with her relationship with Emily, to how she parents, to what she wants for morey, all of it, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and then morey is this, like, I mean, it was such a brilliant season when they had morey aligned more with Emily than Laura Li.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Both things, which was D.A.R.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that whole season's great.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think they're a love triangle.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's such a good point.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love to hear that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's something that Amy really speaks to a lot and the writers that we've had on the show that were writers in the room for Gilmore Girls is that Amy's words like you would be word perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned in one of your interviews that actors are encouraged to come to you for any changes that they may want to see what's that process like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I'll say about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's too full.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we mentioned how the show has a lot of diversity on the show, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: We have deaf characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: We deal with a lot of, I mean, there's just a lot of different lived experiences on the show that aren't me, but our writers in the room and our actors.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that it has to be encouraged that voices can be heard.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, and I say that, but I, I broaden it out to the actors are really like the herald of their character.

[SPEAKER_02]: like they know those characters so well.

[SPEAKER_02]: The show is really big.

[SPEAKER_02]: There are a lot of freaking characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, I'm like kind of a little bit encyclopedia about it, but at the same time, like I'll lose things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I lost the guilt's parent thing, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So the more people who are helping me like hold this ball in the air, the more grateful I am.

[SPEAKER_02]: So the characters really, the actors really know their characters so well.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like I'll have long discussions and certain actors like it, certain don't, but the ones who do want to, [SPEAKER_02]: I will say nine times out of ten, change, change, change lines, change whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: If the actor isn't happy with the scene, based on what the actors want to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's tricky because at the same time, like it does have to be one strong vision or you're just going to go in eight hundred different directions.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, too many things.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of conversations with the actors about certain moments, certain scenes, you know, certain dialogue, and then certain actors are really good to, with improv, like, Sarah Ways class who plays Maxine, it's phenomenal, it improv.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love her.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're all amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're all amazing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel Brianna deserves an Emmy for season three.

[SPEAKER_02]: One is so just Tony.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was in person.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Brienne is, ooh, I mean both of them, but like Brienne to me, I love that one of the ways in which you and Gilmour Girls are connected, your show and Gilmour Girls is that George was last, wasn't Brienne the last person who was cast.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as was Lauren Graham on Gilmore Girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I find that so fascinating that like the anchor of the show, which Georgia really anchors.

[SPEAKER_01]: Georgia's the anchor.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have the right Georgia.

[SPEAKER_02]: The tone, the weird like mesh of tones on my show doesn't work.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need to go with her, seen by scene and have her carry you through the tones of, you know, she used to wear so many hats.

[SPEAKER_02]: She used to be scary murder or she used to be a loving mother.

[SPEAKER_02]: She is to be a trauma survivor.

[SPEAKER_02]: She is to be a the smartest person in the room in a superhero with how resourceful she is.

[SPEAKER_02]: She used to be so many things and like some of those tones are, you know, we'll go from a scene where a mother and daughter discussing having an abortion to Georgia like hoising down reporters to like a puppy soundtrack.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's a wild ride.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like if you don't have the right Georgia, your show's going to fall completely flat.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's why it took so long to cast.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I had a nervous breakdown.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, we don't have Georgia.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Netflix was like, no, your deadline is up.

[SPEAKER_02]: You need to pick someone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then Brianna, how he's auditioned, came in literally that morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that that's fate right there and that I mean same with Lauren Graham I mean she sets the tone for all of a lot of Gilmore girls I mean that again that's not a knock to anybody else it is a group effort it is an ensemble show [SPEAKER_01]: But if Laura lie is not anchoring the show, everything else will fall apart.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel the same way about Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: And similarly, I believe Lauren Graham deserved, and I mean, that show deserved a lot of, I mean, nominations that are present.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I'm getting to the sexism of all of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the people know the people know.

[SPEAKER_02]: The people know, and that's all that really matter.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't care about awards.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's not who I'm making the show for.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I would like the actors to get recognized because I think they deserve it, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, speaking to Amy's vision on the show, the way she wrote the show, you have said that you have your last scene written, similarly to Amy's last four words.

[SPEAKER_01]: She knew, like, you know, I know what the last four words of the show are going to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can we expect season four to see that last scene?

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: The powers that be are still powers that being.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I totally got that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I always thought it was going to end it for.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then we kind of realized there was maybe more story to tell.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're, because you pitched it to this a four season.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, shut it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is very smart because you kind of laid out the trajectory and longevity of the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: for, yeah, the exact same.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that was out the gate.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was told to me to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that, like, I could give a whole, I could, I mean, my, here's what I'll say when your pitch, I'll just like throw in some quick pitching advice to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Please do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because it was really smart advice and it was given to me, but I had done a pitch and I did the pitch for my producers and one of the producers was like, kind of boring, doesn't sound like you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, huh, and she was like, why are you telling this story?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why is this your show?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, anyone could tell this story.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is just a book report.

[SPEAKER_02]: she said it nicer yeah of course no but yeah important but but that was the message and I was like that's brilliant that's right and I was like so I went into the pitch and I performed it and I and by that I mean I understood that the most tricky thing for the buyers to digest about the pitch was the tone the fact that it goes like like dark and fun and sad and deals with a lot of mental health and deals with I mean just deals with a lot of things but at the same time like is fun and [SPEAKER_02]: And like so I like went into the pitch and like had to like perform that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you know it was like you know like Georgia has escaped this horrible past and like but she's never grown up past this certain age and like that affects her relationship with her daughter and so has she murdered before?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but it's only when she's triggered and did and then I went, but she's so pretty.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so you have to like be the tone of your own show when you're pitching anyways, and then the producers also just told me to pitch out multiple seasons though.

[SPEAKER_02]: I give to show the show has legs.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I just sit there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I only had a pilot script written and I had to think of four seasons of story and I did and I did that and then after pitching that and and getting the time episode pick up there were like you need to find a show around our kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: Who the hell are you?

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's [SPEAKER_02]: That's when I interviewed a bunch of showrunners and they found Deb Fisher who is phenomenal and I picked her and then we went back into Netflix and we pitched those four seasons again But this time when I had pitched it just me it was like I really spent a lot of time talking about like what the first season was going to be and I really hash that out [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I spent like a little bit of time on like the second season maybe a paragraph on the third season.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I had like a few sentences on the fourth season and then Deb and I really like worked on like flushing out off four of those seasons and we went back into Netflix and we pitched really the four seasons and they were like yep green light.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go [SPEAKER_01]: love.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm glad that you had someone who was kind of like a mentor for you as you navigated this first experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to get into some fan questions that kind of do a little bit more girls, Jenny and Georgia crossovers.

[SPEAKER_01]: We wrap this up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: If Jenny was Lorealized daughter and if Georgia was Lorealized mother, [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think their relationships look like?

[SPEAKER_01]: We're doing a little child swap.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you think they navigate that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you think it would be different?

[SPEAKER_01]: Rory is obviously very different from Jenny.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Laurel, I would argue, is I think has a lot more similarities to Georgia than Jenny does to Rory.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Laurel, I would piss Jenny off.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Georgia pisses Jenny off, so.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like do you think Jenny would make different choices?

[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of her season three story is fueled by the choices of her mother.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that Laura live would make the same decisions, especially in that large capacity like murder as Georgia does.

[SPEAKER_01]: So do you think that Jenny would would behave any differently?

[SPEAKER_02]: Jenny, you're reminding me of something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, such an ADD moment of your mind.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that one of the things that people compared the two shows, too, was like, oh, Zion rides up on a motorcycle.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had, I had completely forgotten that Christopher rides up on a motorcycle.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that was so, and then I was, because then I rewatched Gilmar Girls like recently, just because like, I don't know, it was like the fall.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: You really have to.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think, oh no, you know what it was?

[SPEAKER_02]: I rewatched Gilmore Girls before my show came out because I watched every episode of Survivor and I watched Gilmore Girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I watched all the things that make me feel like comfort.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was really anxious before season one of Jenny and Georgia came out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like I just had never been upon girls' comfort food.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I watched it and it got to the episode where Christopher first shows up because it's never really mentioned again.

[SPEAKER_02]: He rides up in a motorcycle once and then it's like over.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I remember correctly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they like kind of talk about it in season two because then he shows up in a Volvo and Laura likes like where should I go?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your person.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is true, but like I just forgot.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like because everyone at that point had been online like and I remember just being like [SPEAKER_02]: I'd chucked.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I should.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because then because truly those characters were so different.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, the motorcycle, the motorcycle thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't realize that was a motorcycle.

[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot there was a motorcycle and go my girls.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, going back to what you said, I think that Rory, not Rory, I think that Ginny as a character, [SPEAKER_02]: is craving above all else stability.

[SPEAKER_02]: She just wants to feel like she is in normal life.

[SPEAKER_02]: She wants to put down roots.

[SPEAKER_02]: She really, really, really wants to feel just that her life doesn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: She wants room for herself because her entire life revolves around Georgia.

[SPEAKER_02]: and Georgia just takes up so much space.

[SPEAKER_02]: And like everything they do is in conversation with like the past, Georgia's past, and how she had to kill people for Ginny, and then she puts that weight on Ginny, and it's just totally.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think actually Ginny would probably be a little bit healthier if Rory was her mother, or my God, if Rory was her mother, because that is one thing that Rory really has is stability.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that is something Rory likes for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: If anything, that's Rory likes, [SPEAKER_02]: downfall as a character is she's so allergic to any kind of change.

[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so that's what I would say.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that if Rory and Georgia were paired together, I think that, you know, Rory does do a lot of mothering for Lorela especially in season one.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's how she's positioned.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think they lose a little bit of that as the seasons continue to progress.

[SPEAKER_01]: They really [SPEAKER_01]: find that mother daughter properly putting it on Laurelite and Bray respectively as the seasons move forward.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in season one, we're really positioned to believe that Bray is a mother to Laurelite.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's the mom figure, even though her mom is her mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that Laurelite's a little more of the child.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that Bray would truly mother Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she would want to be the anchor.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like Laura and Lori, I guess in the pilot episode of Gilmar Girls, which finally was filmed in Canada, by the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I toured I toured that town as a possibility for Wellsbury.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would have been really cute, really funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I actually love where we ended up getting [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's so beautiful.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so cute.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize it was in Canada.

[SPEAKER_01]: I genuinely thought it was in New England.

[SPEAKER_02]: When we drove into Cobrag, there was a clothing store called Audrey's and my mom's name is Audrey, so it really just felt like a sign.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that was Ken's men.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's the clothing store we use for Georgia to shoplifting and actually not shoplifting.

[SPEAKER_02]: The shoes, the pretty women moment and then for Jenny to shoplifting, that's the, and the real owner is like the woman behind the counter.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a little, and then I like bought my mom a sweater from Audrey, who's like a symbol, and she's like, did you forget I'm allergic to wool?

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that story.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I love that story.

[SPEAKER_02]: I always buy something there when we're the main coberg.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, going back to this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't agree.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like when I watch the pilot of Gilmore Girls, Lori is very much the child.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think she's like overly mature, but like even in her interactions with like she likes a boy for the first time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like she just feels very innocent to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, what hundred percent.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just feel like I do see Laura lie.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think Laura lies able to fulfill the role that she likes to fulfill of cool mom.

[SPEAKER_02]: because Lori is such a good kid.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I would be really interested to see Lori lie, have to be a parent to a kid, maybe like Jenny, who like acts out a little bit more, who's like a little bit more adventurous or like not gonna be such a goody goody in the sense of like, because like Jenny's super smart don't get me wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: But like she's two parties with her friends, like she's got the rebellious streak.

[SPEAKER_02]: So like I'm curious to see the kind of mother Lori I would be if her daughter didn't always [SPEAKER_02]: Wow her to be cool mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I totally get that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we see a little bit of that as we're going to college starts to spread her wings, meets Logan, you know, starts to get in.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Laura, I'm out bunching.

[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't know what to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't know function.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have no idea how to handle that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very fascinating to watch.

[SPEAKER_01]: It starts when we're asleep.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Dean, I mean, she's like, wow, do I navigate this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's always not a daughter that has followed the rules and Laura likes been the one to, you know, she's had the agency to be a little more reckless with her.

[SPEAKER_01]: dating decisions, which on that topic, the men of Gilmore Girls are heavily discussed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a team?

[SPEAKER_01]: Team Jeff.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're a team just as I knew I liked you.

[SPEAKER_01]: My podcast partner is Team Logan.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we first started our show together, it was, I mean, it still is, but it was perfect because we had such opposing views on like, who we really gravitate towards.

[SPEAKER_01]: I gravitate towards the early seasons, haily tends to gravitate towards the later seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's when she started watching the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she was introduced to Roy's love life with Logan.

[SPEAKER_01]: So of course, you know, she was really, really into that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I love Jess.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would argue that Jess and Marcus have a lot of similar qualities in that they really kind of open up the audience to a different, I don't want to call Marcus necessarily a bad boy, but somebody who has a lot of mental health [SPEAKER_01]: demons that they're fighting that require a little extra attention than someone like Rory who's not really going through that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ginny is, but we don't really talk about Jess Mariano's mental health.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we do as a fan of now, but not on the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: We don't address it in the same way Ginny and Georgia does.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think what they, they should have addressed more maybe, but I think what was there, what was in the character in Jess Mariano, was, I mean, he was in her, he was in conversation with both of his parents and feeling abandoned, right, and clearly acting out like based on that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they do show that in the episode he goes to California, but I don't like that episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was, do you know that was back to our pilot?

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that to know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it was like, it was so, there are so many people who don't know that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then like, they're like, why did that episode happen?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, because they were trying to create the spin-off.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we still to this day would love to know, like, was that always the plan?

[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't a spin-off planned would just a storyline have gone in that direction or would we have seen it?

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to know.

[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I digress.

[SPEAKER_01]: Keep going.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to California.

[SPEAKER_01]: Try to find some stability.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: But here's what I'll say.

[SPEAKER_02]: Marcus is really based off of like real stuff and so it's I don't know if I can get on board with really comparing Marcus and and Jess other than the facts that like they're you know hot and moody and [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but like I think the thing about Jess is he was able to meet he was able to to provide something for worry that Dean wasn't like Dean was very nice guy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean we won't talk about later seasons Dean, but first boyfriend, well, and actually in rewatching that and I'm like, well, [SPEAKER_02]: But he was able to meet her on intellectual level.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think she was a little bit more also sexually attracted to him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was, of course.

[SPEAKER_02]: So he was able to like excite her and like stimulate her mentally and like beyond, and like she, you know, with Dean, like he was sweet guy, but he just like wasn't gonna like, he wasn't a voracious reader like she was.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Jess was her intellectual match and really filled a gap that Dean left in terms of actual compatibility and interest and whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think for Marcus and Jenny, it's less about that because he isn't very, you know, he isn't with Jenny in terms of her love poetry or reading or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think for Marcus, it's the fact that she feels really seen by him and also he feels like a safe space for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: to talk about her trauma.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there is a little bit of an element of trauma bonding between them.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there's just like they just see each other in a way that they don't really feel seen by any other character in the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's hard for me to compare Marcus and Jess because of all the real stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's unfolded a lot as the series has progressed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that in season one, I could compare them a little bit more, but now upon reflection, also Marcus has the support system, even though he's not necessarily utilizing it of both of his parents, of his twin, you know, who's they're all desperate for him to talk to them, and he's just [SPEAKER_01]: not and there's a little bit of comparison and similarity there and that worry wishes that Jess would have just opened up to her and told her what was going on with him and I don't know that that would have changed anything but it is certainly like that push-and-pull that we all love to watch and I I'm personally reading for Jenny and Marcus I like them a lot [SPEAKER_01]: I like that they have a friendship outside of, like it's obviously rooted in love and feelings for each other, but I like that they were able to find some semblance of, you know, of being there for each other, of leaning on each other in some capacity throughout the duration of this season.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that they are really, just, they have yet to really be in a place where they work as a couple in terms of like where they're but what they're going through and their mental health.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, individually and yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I do still think that they have great love for one another.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they want the other person to be happy.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is a core want that they both have for the other.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's why they feel like a safe space for each other.

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Marcus can't, I mean, I think that's going to be really interesting about season four.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say my last one of my last questions for you is what can you tell us about Virginia and Georgia has had it for season four?

[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, not a lot, but I, not a lot, but I can say that coming out of season three, I think the tone is shifted yet again.

[SPEAKER_02]: So everything that I, what I like to do each season of the show is shift the tone, because the tone is like my favorite playground, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: You see that within the episode itself, like each, and you see it within the scenes themselves, like there are micrimonate moments.

[SPEAKER_02]: within each scene where like a little thing will shift or you'll get a look between a character where they'll pick up on something that someone else doesn't and it but it's like a big broader scene or you know we'll zoom in and we'll be right with a character and feel their emotion and then we'll like zoom out we'll make like a funny joke or we'll be like really intentionally camp [SPEAKER_02]: So I just love playing with like zooming in zooming out and tone overall.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it'll be a really like a perfect example would be the scene where Georgia tells Paul everything at the end of season two where it's like that's a funny scene even though it breaks your heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: And but like when you cut to Scott's face it's only makes me laugh every time I see it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I loved editing that scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: When you cut to Scott's face after she's like [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I blame therapy, like, oh, there's more and, like, breeders that should be a brilliant job of, like, being both, like, you believe the stakes of the situation.

[SPEAKER_02]: But, like, the scene right before it was very heavy and very touching with Jenny and Georgia, but even that had a moment of comedy in it where Jenny's like, mom, like, you deserve a good life, you deserve happiness.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, like, you know, happiness, I don't trust happiness as a difference.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, Jenny's like, got to tell Paul everything, and Georgia's like, everything, and, of course, not everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, like, then, [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like this little funny moment within the sad scene and then you know you immediately have to shift the tone and go lighter with Georgia pacing back and forth and that's a comedy blocking where she's pacing and he's sitting and whatever anyway I'm getting so in the weeds with this but we play the tone is really long trying to say here we play the tone a lot on the show and so for season four we play with tone again because each season the tone shifts slightly season three was definitely our like [SPEAKER_02]: biggest darkest season, murder trial.

[SPEAKER_02]: It went viral.

[SPEAKER_02]: All this stuff happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: The bomb went off.

[SPEAKER_01]: The bomb that we've been waiting for has finally gone off.

[SPEAKER_02]: You say finally, but it is so wild that we exposed our main character secrets in season three.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's something that you usually wait as long as possible to do.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but our motto is like, let's go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just go.

[SPEAKER_01]: This especially since you had had this vision for season three at the beginning of your journey, for sure, in Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that having two seasons before that did feel like a finally moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, we can finally expose what we've been building towards for two seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also difficult to say how long a series is going to last nowadays that I do think season three is kind of for today's landscape of television waiting a good amount of time possibly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I will say it's a much safer bet.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're playing it much safer.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you keep the thing that's working going in a way where like Netflix feels comfortable [SPEAKER_02]: Like your audience is gonna know what to expect and you kind of it's like the rule of Dexter once everyone discovers Dexter's a murderer or the show's a little bit Okay, so it's like so it's like you've got a kind of key like this is the formula.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like fun town stuff and in the background this like Mystery about like how do we keep it going without but we've literally just like little match and threw it in the show and like exploded every secret that could possibly be [SPEAKER_02]: for our main character and changed everyone's dynamic because the main character is the relationship between Jenny and Georgia and we had brought that relationship to as far as we could without needing Georgia to now break in order for them to rebuild.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, all that to be said, entering season four, it's a tonal shift again, whereas I kind of want the beginning of season four to feel like we're in the battlefield.

[SPEAKER_02]: after the battle and by that I mean it's like there are birds chirping moss is growing over the overturned tank like it's just this feeling of like atrocities happened here but now everything's like back to normal but like a little bit off yeah does that no it doesn't make sense yeah because nothing will ever be the way it was before the bomb went off right totally everything with Austin [SPEAKER_01]: who, you know, in season two, started to make waves because of Gil's return and everything that happened there.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for the most part, it's been about Jenny and Georgia.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the name of the show.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now Austin is broken and did something to save his mom.

[SPEAKER_01]: that he cannot repair and miss his dad.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very complicated feeling knowing who his dad is, witnessing what he's capable of as far as his abuse.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he made a decision and chose a side and he now has to grapple with that and now Georgia has to grapple with the fact that her son is grappling with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Ginny does as well because Ginny is the one [SPEAKER_01]: that forced slash encouraged him to make that decision.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so complicated and nothing will ever be the same.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you see a lot in Georgia, like she justifies all the decisions that she made because she felt she had to do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then you see Ginny have that same excuse at the end of episode ten with what she did.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you're just like slowly kind of chipping away at Jenny's soul in order to but you know, and it's interesting because like in one and we we consult with a psychologist on the show who talks to us and helps, you know, talk through the mental health of each of our characters.

[SPEAKER_02]: We also partner with mental health America and what are psychologists said about Jenny at the end of season three issues like I'm I'm both scared and proud.

[SPEAKER_02]: for because I'm scared for her because you see that she has gone through something horrific and kind of like hardened because of it but I'm proud of her because this is actually the strongest she's ever been on a mental health way in the sense that she's not self-harming she's not letting other people's problems weigh on her [SPEAKER_02]: She really is prioritizing herself, but I don't think she's learned how to balance it or do it gracefully yet, and that's very intentionally shown in that conversation with Maxine.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of shown in the conversation she has with her mom.

[SPEAKER_02]: You see it for a beat when her brother [SPEAKER_02]: melts down on her.

[SPEAKER_02]: So all that is to be said is that it's a real big question mark about like who Jenny is is growing into.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's also a question mark about how this is going to affect Austin.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's also a question mark about how Georgia is going to emerge from all of this if she really is able to change willing to change.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if that change, if there's enough time for that change to happen.

[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a giant crush mark over Georgia's pregnancy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which, of course, our listeners are in right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, our listeners were like, who's the father?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, she's not going to tell us that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have to wait until season four, maybe, to learn that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really excited for her.

[SPEAKER_01]: So my last question for you before we wrap up is aside from the obvious, the mother-daughter relationships we've talked about throughout our conversation and some of the similarities, but the town and the characters, why do you think Go More Girls fans will really love Jenny and Georgia if they haven't already gotten invested?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because it's the center of it, it's just a story about a mother and a daughter.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what Gilmore Girls is, too.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, and again, I think there's room for innumerable mother-daughter shows, because it's one of the most fascinating relationships, the most instrumental and monumental and forming relationships we have.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was the relationship that sparked the whole idea of the show for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is how does this daughter respond to this mother?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then why did this mother become this way?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I could, and I could see an argument for how that trajectory is the same for Gilmore girls in the sense of like, those questions being asked.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to show.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're fine.

[SPEAKER_02]: They're both fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're both fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they're both gripping.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really, really excited for season four.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very honored to be included in the conversation with Gilmar Girls because it really, that was my dream was to create a show that touched people and became a monumental show for them when they were growing up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Gilmar Girls was for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very honored.

[SPEAKER_02]: Great.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much, Sarah.