[SPEAKER_00]: 5, 6, 7, 8, fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hi y'all, welcome, our welcome back to Gilmour To Read.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Haley and I'm so glad to have you here today.

[SPEAKER_00]: If this is your first episode of Gilmour To Read, thanks for picking this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have had quite a few Gilmour To Read episodes this season, this Gilmour Girl Season that is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just because there are too many good books coming out and too many good authors writing them.

[SPEAKER_00]: to only be specifically talking to book club authors, which if you were not a part of our book club, it has the same name as the podcast, Gilmourn to Read with two book clubs under the umbrella.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first one is reading a sexy where we read Gilmourn inspired romance novels.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's less of what worry was reading on the show and more of a book that worry might be in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Versus are other book club where you read, I will follow.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are reading more of what [SPEAKER_00]: If she had a shelf today, sometimes I like to throw in maybe something that Laura might have read to that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit of catch all, just not romance.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the past, I'm going to read episodes have corresponded to book club picks, but again, like I said, there's just so many good authors who love Gilmore Girls, the way that we do, who love fandom, the way that we do.

[SPEAKER_00]: who I just want to have on in talk and today's guest does fall into that category, but she's actually our first repeat author, our first repeat guest on Gilmour to Read.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was our book club pick back in September 2023 for reading a sexy with her debut novel, 100 of the girls, and that is of course a mon heriri kia who is such a good friend of the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: We absolutely love her over here, and I'm so glad that she agreed to come back and talk to me again today.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of [SPEAKER_00]: and so her episode didn't actually get posted until April 4th, 2024, if you want to go looking for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The episode was titled, Aman Harry Kia is the worry girl more we deserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it'll make more sense when you listen to it, especially because her debut novel, 100 of the girls follows an aspiring journalist finding her way as an assistant as she navigates the wild world of magazines.

[SPEAKER_00]: media, which a man had a lot of experience going into the book as a journalist herself.

[SPEAKER_00]: That episode is still one of my favorites of Gilmour To Read.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about a man's history and early days as a writer.

[SPEAKER_00]: When it was like writing her debut, like she talks about writing her first chapter on her notes app on an airplane, and of course she provides all the spicy and accurate opinions she has about Gilmour Girls.

[SPEAKER_00]: I highly, highly recommend listening to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can listen to this one first or you can go listen to that one first and come back to this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you want, dealers choice, listeners choice.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in today's episode she gives us an update on what's been going on in her world since we last talked to her, namely her third novel female fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's out in the world now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I came out on October 14th, which if you're listening to this today, came out yesterday.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is the first ever lease from Cosmo Magazine's book in print, Cosmo Reeds.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get more into it in the episode talking about a month's personal connection to Cosmo, but it's such a massive feat to be an imprint's first book.

[SPEAKER_00]: so congratulations to Monde for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys I cannot stop talking about this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure if you're listening to Gilmore to say episodes you have heard me talk about this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you follow me on socials you have seen me posting about this book because I absolutely love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is one of my favorites of the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is the story of Juni who loves reading romance and romance to see.

[SPEAKER_00]: She has set her standard of men and [SPEAKER_00]: based on her favorite character right in her favorite book, which is a romanticie called a tale of saltwater in secrets.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, he is a merman.

[SPEAKER_00]: The book actually opens with Juni breaking up with her date because he does not live up to her standard that rake his set for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: When Juni learns that the author of this book based him on someone she knows in real life, Juni sleuths her way to finding out that this guy lives in New York and decides to set off on a road trip to find him, believing he's her soulmate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, her brother's best friend is the one in the driver's seat taking her there.

[SPEAKER_00]: My favorite part of this book other than everything about it is that Juni's story is told alongside excerpts from the romanticine novel that Reich is from, a tale of saltwater and secrets.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you'll get a chapter about Juni and what she's going through and then you'll get a little excerpt of the book that she loves.

[SPEAKER_00]: It parallels her life so gorgeously and you will so clearly see in the excerpts just how much a fan imon is of the romance genre.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a hilarious and heartfelt deep dive, pun intended into what it means to be a romance reader and how healing it can be when life is at its worst.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the reasons I recommend this for you Gilmore lovers, regardless of if you identify as a romance reader, if you're just someone who likes to read romance, or if you're romance novel curious, and you haven't sunk into your first one, or you are a little skeptical of romance in general, I think that this would be really good for all of you, because you can probably all relate to the healing power of your favorite comfort media.

[SPEAKER_00]: whether you go there when you're hurting, and you wish you had a community like that, whether it's like a joyous escape that you go to, or perhaps it has sweet your taste in men and what you deserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a little bit of all fan girls in there, and I know that you fall into that category of fan girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'll seem to have a girl's podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you're interested in romance but not sure where to start, this is a good introduction to see what it is Juni loves about romance and in turn, all romance readers, including me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know this book feels like it was written for 15-year-old me who wanted to grow up and find a Logan Hunts burger in her life.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that all of us have had that at some point, and I think that that very earnest part of you should come back out, go to the bookstore and get female fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because later on, Aman and I talk more about what it means to be on a team.

[SPEAKER_00]: But a bit about Ammon herself, Ammon Huriri Kia, is a writer board and raised in New York City, a Forbes 30 under 30 honoree and an award-winning journalist.

[SPEAKER_00]: She covers sex, relationships, identity and adolescence.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her work has appeared in Vogue, New York Magazine's The Cut, Harper's Brissar, Cosmopolitan, Teen Vogue, and more.

[SPEAKER_00]: She is the best-selling author of 100 of The Girls and the Most Famous Girl in the World.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her latest novel female fantasy was published [SPEAKER_00]: October 14th, 2025, which as I said, was yesterday.

[SPEAKER_00]: Later in this episode, Amanda and I dive into more of what it means to be on a team.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean when I say team and we also talk about kind of the state of the romance genre and as it's perceived from the inside and from the outside.

[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I could talk for hours about how much I love female fantasy you have to sit into mediums for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: About how much I love them on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will shout it from the rooftops any day.

[SPEAKER_00]: But instead of all of that, how about I let you listen to our conversation?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, without further ado, here is the Queen of Mermaid Autumn and Mon Heriori Kia.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, among you are first repeat author, you are the first person to come back a second time, guests, like our preferred guests, if you will.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like you're one of the best to do that with, because I know an episode is going to be good when my editor has finished editing it and is like, I love this girl, and that was you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love you, editor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And 100%.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that's just because we're obsessed with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like when we got on the last time, it was our first time talking IRL or via the internet.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like it felt like you were like a friend and I feel like you are now a friend of the pod.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel the exact same way about you guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have been following not just your Gilmore Girls thoughts, but your book thoughts for so long.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you truly are an internet friend to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hope to make you a in-person friend one day.

[SPEAKER_00]: So female fantasy among latest book came out October 14th.

[SPEAKER_00]: which I believe if my recording schedule aligns with my editing schedule and my posting schedule was yesterday, if you're listening to this when it comes out, so it is a really big week for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, Iman, like I said, you were on the podcast previously back in 2023, it posted in 2024 because of technical difficulties, which we will not have today.

[SPEAKER_00]: Fingers crossed, manifesting that for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have not listened to that episode, please go back and listen to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost two years ago at this point, but we go deep into a month's journey, getting into writing, and all of her go-mobile thoughts.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was excellent.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so much has happened in that time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your second novel came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: The most famous girl in the world, and it rocked my world.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ending of that book.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was a reaction video of me to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very favorite video of all time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can I just tell you because I got so many, I still got day and then day out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So many messages about the ending of this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: People telling me what happened to them when they finished reading it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got almost crashed my car.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got dropped my Kindle at it cracks.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, so many accidents that I said, this book needs to come with a warning [SPEAKER_01]: And I watched that whole thing I watched it forwards and backwards and it was amazing I sent it to my mom my mom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm famous in your house You're my family [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, amazing one on honor, but speaking of your family group chat, you also became a missus to your darling husband, which in the last episode we called him your Logan, which is amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your wedding was featured in Vogue and you were in your author era, your author bright era, rather, and you're about to release your third and in my opinion best novel.

[SPEAKER_00]: How have you been other than incredibly busy and looking great all doing it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for that incredible intro.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you hit all the highlight rills of my life, incredible way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I really appreciate it and wish I could bring you everywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I will.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just put me on the team.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, I...

[SPEAKER_01]: have had a really whirlwind year to be honest.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that I really, the last time I spoke to you was coming down from my experience publishing my debut novel, which had been pretty much like some of the highest and lowest moments in my life [SPEAKER_01]: confronting like the anxiety that the latter of success would never fully be climbed all the way to the top.

[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, came engaged to the love of my life, but I also lost my grandmother, someone who was instrumental in giving me this love of literature and life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I moved apartments, I moved burrows within the city, kind of went on my first ever tour.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had all this happen over a six month period.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then when it was finally time to sit down and like process it, I was like, what the fuck just occurred.

[SPEAKER_01]: I totally had like the gift of a year to sort of get my bearings and process what work to what didn't work for my first pup cycle, not just from a publishing perspective, but from a mental and physical health perspective.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, plan my wedding a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, I had a year to get my bearings to do a full sort of post-mortem of what work to want didn't to get my affairs in order to get my, like, [SPEAKER_01]: mental health back to a place where I felt there were boundaries in place and like a base layer of fortitude and that I understood what I wanted to get out of the creative process again, and I really focused on the joyful aspects of my life which were [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the incredible influx of love that I was experiencing via my husband and his family and my family and my friends was a very exciting time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will say that like, if you are thinking about publishing a book and getting married within a month period.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's the best idea ever.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did come back from my honeymoon after doing my first ever self-implosed like full blackout period.

[SPEAKER_01]: No social media, no checking my email, no nothing to discover that my book was coming out in like neary a month and had a week of calm before being like, wait a second, my my book comes out in less than a month and going into like full [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, when I look back on my experience publishing, let's say I'm a screw on the world, I only have positive memories.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think like, you know, a hundred other girls was the book that I needed to write.

[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to capture everything that I had seen and witnessed experience and media exactly as I had it in my memory.

[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to tell my version of the truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: in order to clear my throat.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I learned a lot from that experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there are some things, you know, I probably wouldn't have done if I were to write that book now, but honestly, like, wouldn't change a thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know what I was doing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I did it all by myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's an amazing, [SPEAKER_01]: It's a feet-take knowledge, yeah, but yeah, I mean, I went into that book thinking, if this isn't sell, if this isn't hit a bestseller list, if this doesn't become a huge book, I've wasted my opportunity and my career is over.

[SPEAKER_01]: Those were the thoughts in the back of my mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: that's so hard on yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: The thing about publishing is like one book feels like an opportunity.

[SPEAKER_01]: Two books feels like a second chance and three books, in my opinion, starts to feel like a career.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just really didn't want to take it for granted and instead created this, you know, really false narrative, which didn't exist at all, where I [SPEAKER_01]: completely to fail.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I spent basically like a year working on myself and really putting myself in a bubble in which I was like separate from the court of public opinion, refocusing on the writing process, reconnecting with my inner voice and like blocking out the voices of others for a most famous girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the result was that most famous girl ended up being the book I really wanted to write.

[SPEAKER_01]: I went from the book I needed to write to [SPEAKER_01]: I could write literally anything in the world right now, no matter how crazy, out there, unhinged, like what would it be.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I took a really big swing with most famous girl, and then really, absolutely isolated myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, I sort of like reserved my expectations.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had such a better experience with most famous girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like, that's for a couple of different reasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, with a hundred other girls, I wanted to write a book that was for everyone that everyone would love.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted it to be like neutral in a lot of ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people, I was blessed enough, did read it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And like any book, some people liked it and some people didn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then with most famous girl, I did the opposite.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to write a book out of just like the people that liked it, loved it and the people that do like it didn't get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what happened was exactly that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like the people that came with me from a hundred other girls, the most famous girl, the most famous girls try.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was so excited that [SPEAKER_01]: taking risks, taking a big swing, doing things a little bit differently like injecting a lot of voice and perspective and not playing things so safe.

[SPEAKER_01]: It really did pay off in a big way and it helped me to trust myself again.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know that brought me to my third book which is [SPEAKER_01]: had the book I needed to write.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had the book I wanted to write in between those two books.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really focused on getting my head on straight and learning about like the physical and mental boundaries that need to be in place in order to make yourself accessible to thousands of strangers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And when I think about female fantasy, I think about how this is the book that taught me and [SPEAKER_01]: It's the book that like helped me fall back in love with the creative process.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like after I'd gone through the ringer and I had learned all of these lessons about publishing and I had sort of started to question my own voice and reconnected with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I found myself once again at Square One and the process of weaving together these two narratives and telling a story that's so meaningful to me personally, but also having so much fun with it [SPEAKER_01]: and most famous girl, and just like that intuition that I had gained from my last book cycle, that female fantasy was really the result of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I feel so much affection and so much of a deep personal connection to female fantasy because [SPEAKER_01]: It was so healing for me, and I'm a lot of ways like this book is about healing for my characters.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I love her so much, I feel like so grateful that she came into my life, because like, although I created her, I felt like she helped build back my confidence up to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I'm just so excited, like, after being so nervous to publish a book, then so scared to publish a book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so, like, excited to celebrate this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I look back at, like, so many cool things happen with a bunch of other girls.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I, one of my biggest regrets is that, like, I don't feel like I was mentally present enough to, like, fully soak it in and enjoy them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was always looking [SPEAKER_01]: And I know a lot of creatives and a lot of other authors sort of like fall into this this trap of success as well and so my one big goal with female fantasy is I want to celebrate her and I want to enjoy the experience of her fighting her people and I don't know I just this to me is like such a love letter to the community that has helped me through some of the darkest parts of my life romance.

[SPEAKER_01]: and I've always wanted to give back to the community that gave so much to me, so I hope that they love it too.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do, I hope they want to party with me for the next some of the months.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I definitely want to party with you over this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love hearing the retrospect of like your feelings about a hundred other girls publishing versus [SPEAKER_00]: feels like you can very much feel that in female fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can feel you so clearly.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's why when after I read it immediately, I felt you so much in female fantasy from what I know about you, but from your voice from a hundred other girls in most famous girl.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like so clearly there, but this feels like the best of you in the way that I wanted to recommend this book to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it feels like you wrote the book that you needed to write, you wrote the book that you wanted to write, and this feels like you wrote the book that you need to read.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like this book maybe kind of like hopefully heals those like past versions of you who felt how deep like huge high expectations for yourself because you can soak clearly see that in the main character of female fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, also you can see the version of you from most famous girl who's like, I'm gonna write the book that I want to write and if I can care if anyone else likes it and you can feel that in her too that like she has one goal in mind and she isn't care whatever anyone else thinks about it because it's like it's her ears.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love female fantasy so much as a romance reader but like I think that this is also like the perfect kind of book for people who were like romance curious.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like romance, like not sure what you want from it, but like this is really gonna show you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be a healing for a lot of romance readers because this is who it's for.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I like to the idea that you kind of moving on from writing a book that's for everyone, because I can know book is for everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that going into it with that perspective, [SPEAKER_00]: and then reading female fantasy you're like no she wrote this for her she wrote this for all the girls who are just like her and like reading it it just feels like knowing that journey that you went on it feels so true to what female fantasy is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love you Haley I thought that was such a beautiful way of encapsulating like all the feelings I'm having about this book [SPEAKER_01]: It is 100% the book I needed to read and also I have perceived no greater compliment than when I finished this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to recommend it to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny what you said about how like this is a book for romance readers for sure, but it's also a great book for people that are like romance curious because I had the honor of going to the new Voices D Room's books conference [SPEAKER_00]: you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I spoke to a lot of booksellers who would say you know like you know I'm interested to learn more about this book but to be honest I don't read a lot of romance or you know we don't carry a lot of romance we don't have our romance section and I was so quick to say well don't count out this book just yet I actually think that [SPEAKER_01]: This, in many ways, falls in the Women's Fit Commercial Satire category.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's a lot of camp, there's a lot of humor, there's a lot of heart.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as we know, like, a romance scenes two things to make it a romance.

[SPEAKER_01]: happily ever after, which after two books, I feel like I can now say I'm giving to my readers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: And couple needs to be the sort of like they have to drive the plot.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if that's necessarily true in this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think Juni really drives her own story here.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that like for anyone who is perhaps [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit skeptical of the significance of romance as a genre or maybe hesitant to start reading it because of hearsay that they've they've absorbed about romance or they have experiences of being condescended to in the past because of choosing yeah romance or they are the ones condescending why they're the ones [SPEAKER_01]: you know participating in the condescending.

[SPEAKER_01]: I really do think that like at the very least this book will sort of poke holes in some of those thought processes or lead to some larger meditation about why you're so quick to turn away from a romance if you think it's not going to like intellectually stimulate you or I don't know if it's I found nothing to offer you on a [SPEAKER_01]: like psycho-emotional level.

[SPEAKER_01]: So basically what I'm trying to say is I think everyone can get something out of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: Dad and husband have read it as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're a man, I will say every man that reads this is kind of like this just sort of be directed at men as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also people who I feel like know your voice too and can speak to that, that this is like in the way that you tried to write a hundred of the girls for everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you wrote a very specific book for specific people and in doing that I feel like it really is opening the genre to everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what you were talking about for actually perfectly, like, segways into my next question for you because I really want to focus in on female fantasy, but specifically the first line of the author's note in this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is, I still remember being told I couldn't do my book report on a romance novel.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I really want to talk about this version of you.

[SPEAKER_00]: This, like, younger teenager, how old were you when you were told that?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what was the book that you wanted to do your report on?

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe I was, like, 13 and it was one of the, like, later on Princess Dyeries novels.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was the one, oh my gosh, I'm gonna like, I'm basically like a makeup historian, but it was the one where she wants to end her night with Michael watching Star Wars for his birthday and she's playing out a whole thing, but her grandmother is in the way making her go to the black and white, the Contessa's black and white ball.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember this detail very specifically [SPEAKER_01]: I created a miniature recreation of the dress that she wore to the ball and my mom helped me sew it and everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is before I realized that like this would account.

[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that book so so clearly because there were moments in that love story that like still stick with me, which is that like when they're together watching this movie, [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a call-in response section and one of the call-in responses is how long a long-long time and Michael sort of like looks over at her and she realizes like she's in love with them And it's just it's so beautiful and like I was so young when I first read these books, but I Immediately realized that like I [SPEAKER_01]: There was a warmth and a yearning and a desire to connect there that I hadn't previously like experienced reading books, like middle-grade books, like the Click.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which, you know, the Click has a lot of boys, but they have crushes not boyfriends and the real love story there.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you ask me, is Massey and Claire not [SPEAKER_01]: really like Claire and Cam or Dregton.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this really like it was beautiful as in Packo for me and I also just thought like I still think like me as a monopolist is like one of the most badass protagonists fucking hilarious protagonists of any book ever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Books are better than the movies guys if you haven't read them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I felt very indignant when I was told that I couldn't do my report on this book because at this, at this juncture, I was reading like way more books a week than like most of my peers were.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was a racist reader.

[SPEAKER_01]: I spent all of my time at the library and at Barnes and Noble, and so to hear that someone who had read a book like this three or four times had done extra work to try to recreate scenes from the actual book and had an entire, you know, discourse plan on the significance of some of the minor details, couldn't do a report on a book that compared to [SPEAKER_01]: more of an epic adventure and awful, but barely scanned it or like peers that decided to do books that they then used cliff notes to read and didn't actually read.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was my first sort of taste of being told this book is too trivial or like your taste in books is not serious enough.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there had been hints of that throughout my life up until this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was always like, for example, like, into like the saddle club and the dolphin diaries books.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know people remember.

[SPEAKER_01]: I loved my Sarah Desson.

[SPEAKER_01]: I loved my E-plume.

[SPEAKER_01]: But pieces of my mind already started to connect.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you read books about girls written for girls or books about women, written for women, and they've got happily ever afters, they're not considered dynamic, serious, intellectual enough to be analyzed in a classroom setting.

[SPEAKER_01]: So this litifier in me from a very young age, and I always knew, always deeply understood, that if I were ever to have the opportunity, the chance to publish a book of my own, I wanted it to be realistic commercial fiction.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are literal videos in the [SPEAKER_01]: I love reading literary fiction by already knew I didn't want to write anything up market.

[SPEAKER_01]: I already knew I didn't want to write anything that could be considered inaccessible.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to write books that sparked joy and made people hope and were easy to read.

[SPEAKER_01]: and made people like relax into their bodies and escape into their minds, like I knew that first and foremost.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in the same breath, I thought that there was like real significance analysis, meditation and conversation to be had about said books.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all of it's to say that this [SPEAKER_01]: idea at the right time to put pen to paper and shape and all that's just sort of like a celebration and indefense of books that have always made me feel so deeply.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want you to sign and personalize a copy of female fantasy and send it to that teacher because like you're so right like so many other people probably read serious books when you were 13 or like Cliff noted quote unquote serious books.

[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas you were like engaging with the tax reading outside of school and like the fact that the teacher didn't see that new and wasn't like like encouraging your curiosity in that regard and like only was like okay this isn't serious enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: Remember what book you shifted to when you weren't able to do my cabinet?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I remember that I was very boring, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, personally.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I, by the way, did write in the acknowledgements, this mass not to drop her name, but you can drop her name.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where she is now, but if you're still in New York, I will personally go over to you this book as an apology for...

[SPEAKER_01]: Cutting you out in my author's note, but it is something that sat with me for a long time, and I kind of just had to do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I feel like it's kind of what we were talking about before we got on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it's like finding your why helps you guide you through like so much of the noise that happens, like whether it's noise that comes internally, where you can like look it in the face and be like, actually that's not why I'm doing this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So...

[SPEAKER_00]: we can like push the comparison away, but even when people come in to like send you bad reviews, because people love to tag authors and bad reviews, and like it just guides you closer to your own voice to stay there, because it can bring a lot of people down.

[SPEAKER_00]: It can really weigh you down, but I think having that wise really important.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I people do love to tag you in bad reviews, especially with a hundred other girls really used to like, [SPEAKER_01]: send me into orbit and you know I was it was in such a dark place where like my own opinion of myself would change day to day based on like what I read about my work which gosh so unhealthy one day I'm like [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a hero, I'm on top of the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a genius.

[SPEAKER_01]: The next day I'm like, I'm trash, I'm gonna, I'm gonna need someone's shoe, and everyone is laughing by my back.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not a good way to live.

[SPEAKER_01]: No.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I have learned how to block out this waste entirely over the years.

[SPEAKER_01]: The block button.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I have a really, really great group of people that work with and for me, people who love me, who I trust, who, like, if anything needs to be brought to my attention, they will.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I always make sure to work with incredible sensitivity readers, copy editors, like, I do my due diligence.

[SPEAKER_01]: Everything else, you know, I let the book exist on its own.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got my, you know, tag requests on mentions off Google alerts, [SPEAKER_01]: off.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't look myself up parental lock on goodreads.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like chilling over here and it is just like such a batter space to live in.

[SPEAKER_01]: And every person I tell us to, they're like, you didn't do this before.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I didn't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no one told me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know how public I was I was totally flying by the scene of my pants when I published out first book.

[SPEAKER_01]: I I thought that like a decade of being on the internet ranked for the internet prepared me and you know in some ways it hardened me, but like I still had skin to burn.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's just it is it is such a better experience.

[SPEAKER_01]: and also just remembering writing is so subjective who you are just in change in the like five minute period before and after like seeing something that someone wrote about you or your work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly going back to younger you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like to kind of talk about people through the lens of Gilmore Girls, of course, because Gilmore Girls Podcasts.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we talked a little bit about you when you were 16 or 15, 13.

[SPEAKER_00]: Rory stream and focus in the early seasons was going to college and getting to Harvard.

[SPEAKER_00]: What was your biggest stream when you were 16 years old?

[SPEAKER_01]: My vacation was to be a writer.

[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, I was really focusing on songwriting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really?

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you play instruments?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was a classical violinist and then when I was in high school, I self taught myself the guitar and immediately started writing like, I'll turn to folk music.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Taylor Swift.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was a big Taylor lover, and I took it really seriously.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was writing everything, like I was writing lyric, I was writing prose, I was writing short-form fiction, long-form fiction, poetry was also very helpful, but...

[SPEAKER_01]: songwriting was definitely like drug of choice and I went when I was 16 exactly I spent the summer at the Berkeley College of Music doing their five-week intensive program and meeting like other versioning musicians and songwriters and like really trying to get signed I licensed with BMI like I this was my whole [SPEAKER_01]: everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want this is so cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's like a, now when I look back on it, it really does feel like taking a step inside like a past life, but yeah, I mean, I already knew what I wanted back then, but if you'd asked me, I would have said, I'd love to be a songwriter, but the odds of that working out are not very high.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be a real realistic fiction.

[SPEAKER_01]: novelist, like that's what I would have said.

[SPEAKER_01]: What stopped the songwriting?

[SPEAKER_01]: Breaking up with this part of myself was really, really painful.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was pursuing it full time after graduating from college and really like struggling with the realities of it, which were really terrible hours and a lot of like disappointment and a lot of like not being able to like [SPEAKER_01]: I was like running at a recording studio in New York where like my hours were something like two to ten and then there was another ten to morning session for recording artists and then I like was open-making and busking around New York which usually I wouldn't go on until like [SPEAKER_01]: tended to in the morning so I would go straight to open mics and I was so exhausted and I was sort of confronting this idea that a dream that I'd had on paper might not actually be making you really happy and practice and then around that time would have been like a few months postgrad 2017.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had the opportunity to interview for my assistant role at Teen Vogue and the process was really fast and I got it quickly and it was like a once in a lifetime job opportunity couldn't turn it down and I thought, okay, I'll do both.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'll do this and I'll do songwriting on the side and if you've read a hundred other girls, you know that the assistant job [SPEAKER_01]: is not a 95.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a 24-7 job.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I started having less and less time for it and what really happen is like my mind stopped processing thoughts and feelings in emotion through lyric.

[SPEAKER_01]: It now like very rarely does and the format of how I express myself and navigate my feelings and thoughts has changed and it just happened organically but yeah it's very better sweet for me because I really [SPEAKER_01]: So I felt to be able to capture like lightning in a bottle, like to put feelings of a millisecond into a three-minute song, but it's also a gift because instead of like journals and diaries, [SPEAKER_01]: I can basically track how I was feeling at any given moment in time from the ages of like 8 to 22.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have like a full, I don't know, I have a full retrospective of my life at my fingertips whenever I want to revisit it and that always feels so special to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That I just feel like we like unlocked like a past version of yourself that I had no idea existed because I know you had like posted like some song lyrics in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was like maybe this is something she doesn't decide.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize there was this whole version of yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also in the last episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: We did say you were like our own more who like, [SPEAKER_00]: turn journalists, turned novelists, but I feel like that's so fitting as well because it's like you had this thing that you really loved, but it wasn't working out for you in the way that you wanted it to.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what did you do?

[SPEAKER_00]: You pivoted to writing.

[SPEAKER_00]: You pivoted to novel writing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So do you think you'll ever write a book about a songwriting or a musician?

[SPEAKER_00]: Huh.

[SPEAKER_01]: The truth about music books is that they have to be really good in specific to cell is the truth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's got to be the right idea, and it's got to be gone about the right way.

[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people do not know this, but when I first finished writing a hundred of the girls, I called my agent I said, okay, now that I've submitted this, what's the best thing for me to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, start writing your next book.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I furiously, [SPEAKER_01]: wrote a full draft, a full manuscript of a YA novel that was inspired by like TikTok content houses, and there was like a musician cellplot there, but I ended up shelving it like as soon as I finished it because and this is why like writing about anything and the [SPEAKER_01]: cultural zeitgeist is always risky.

[SPEAKER_01]: By the time I had finished drafting the story, the hype house had disbanded, the sway house had disbanded, the pandemic totally like changed the framework of content houses.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it felt less urgent to me and timely, so I ended up putting that idea away and I haven't really revisited music as a construct since.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know if I were to have the right idea, I definitely would, but like, every time I write, and I'm sorry, read an amazing music novel, I'm always like, oh, like, this was written specifically for me, like, I loved deep cuts, Holly Brookley's debut, which I've heard people have recommended to me, and people wasn't their favorite, I think that book was for people that like love the mechanics of making a song.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I also just read August Lane, which, I mean, yeah, everyone has agreed is one of the best romances of the year.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that book too, I feel like, I was just to feel like lovely love letter to songcraft and the way that songs come together.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love reading music books in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but I, I'm so reverent of that process that it would have to be the right right novel right time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I foresee it happening at some point because, like, with female fantasy, which is what we're here talk about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think you needed some time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it needed to brew, if you will.

[SPEAKER_00]: And needed time to percolate.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, you had to deep dive for it, pun intended.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe, maybe we'll see it in the future, because I feel like this female fantasy is, like, kind of that book, where it's like the most perfect sort of love letter to romance.

[SPEAKER_00]: and it's quite literally like you were talking about August Lane being one of the best romance of the year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your book is one of my favorite books of the year, like completely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said before like having gotten to know you and like really feel your voice in it that like it really is a book that like I want to recommend to anyone who loves romance because it's whimsical and outrageous and soft and earnest and has a depth of fear and [SPEAKER_00]: so it's like this like beautiful mirror as you're reading it that like you are the main character but you are also like experiencing this book that she's reading with the excerpts that we get that you almost feel like you are in it and that is showing you yourself if you are a romance lover.

[SPEAKER_00]: or if you're romance curious you can kind of see what people have gotten from romances in the past and maybe become a little bit of a romance lover yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for saying that I definitely felt that way reading August Lane and I feel that way about female fantasy like these books touch like the softest parts of ourselves and I think it's really important to be in touch with not just what makes us strong but what makes us [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I think what made Juni soft is what made her strong, ultimately, in this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also quite fun because it's one of the first books published from Cosmo Magazine's new imprint Cosmo Reads.

[SPEAKER_00]: So congratulations about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the very first.

[SPEAKER_01]: The inaugural.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love, and so congratulations on that.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's so cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am really, really excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I burst with joy when I saw that gorgeous little seeing you with the heart.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is such a crazy dream come true for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have read Cosmo since I was a preteen, probably way too young to be buying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: at the core candy store, and I have, as a sex and relationships editor, contributed to Cosmo for many years, and those who have been like falling my work, predating my novels, or knowing for a long time know that like, I am just so, [SPEAKER_01]: Pass it about SNR, sex and relationships is like something I miss so much and even though like I don't think I would ever go full time in media again like I do get the itch to return to sex and relationships.

[SPEAKER_01]: So when [SPEAKER_01]: I discovered that this partnership had been sort of curated by the scenes by between my publisher and herst and more specifically my editor and Cosmo and that they'd selected my book to be the inaugural title.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought, oh my god, like, maybe God does exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was such an insane aligning of the stars such a crazy, divisible string moment and the cherry on top is that my best friend had just been named editor-in-chief.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually do get to work really closely with her, which is again, like, a complete coincidence, but also a dream come true because when I left media, we thought that we would never have the opportunity to decollies again and when she got the opportunity [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe I can come back and write like a column.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about maybe doing like a smud of the week column.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that I've never in my wildest dreams that I've heard of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think hybrid publishing media imprint would be.

[SPEAKER_01]: a possibility for me, but yeah, I mean, this book is perfect for it because in the awkward way alone, I discuss why the reading of romance and love stories and the need for better sex education in this country are so intrinsically linked.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what a great book to sort of launch this dream of a imprint.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and I think that they've done such a good job with it too like you said like the authors know really just kicks off that this really is a perfect like it is a perfect match between you and Cosmo.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they've done such a good job with it too in terms of like the aesthetic of the book because female fantasy of course there's this like mermaid element to it but like the juxtaposing narratives within it like the little mermaid stamps on the romance [SPEAKER_00]: need you so in it's packaging, like what's inside the package?

[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's it's packaging?

[SPEAKER_00]: Gorgeous.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for noticing that every single detail of this book, whether it's the cover design or the page details, where like very carefully selected and curated.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it is really nice for me to hear that you appreciate the like the fantasy mermaid and lays.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the art of rake to feel almost like the Fabio art of a bodice river like you'll like can't be involved in romantic and sexy but with my means I wanted to feel like fan art like I wanted to be hard for the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the tear and the bookmark that's going to be overlaid above this gorgeous fan art does a great way of introducing the reader to the fact that like we are not exactly inside this world we only get to visit it we are still like we're still holding a book we are still with the reader girlies like we're part of the the thick community [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just like really thrilled about the it took us a really long time to finalize the cover direction for this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm really grateful to Austin who is the artist who who created these incredible illustrations.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really grateful to Emily McMan who came up with the concept and the entire art and design department of a source books and Cosmo Reads for being [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have talked about female fantasy quite a lot, but let's tell the readers or listeners what they're getting into and what female fantasy is about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Female fantasy follows Juni, who is a girl who keeps breaking up with the disappointing men that she's dating because they don't hold a candle to her favorite [SPEAKER_01]: When our sweetseed Juni finds out from the author that the author actually based the character of Reich off of someone that the author knows in real life, she decides to petal to the metal and embark on an epic quest slash road trip to meet the viral Reich in person and find out if soulmates really do exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: but of course her annoying brothers best friend who doesn't believe in love doesn't believe in happily ever after is insists on hitching a ride with her and it doesn't take long for the trials and tribulations to again.

[SPEAKER_01]: So as Juni and her trusty steed aka her brothers best friend start to make their way towards her love interest they'll basically have to like fight their way [SPEAKER_01]: towards a happy ending, but specifically using scales that Juni has learned from reading romance novels.

[SPEAKER_01]: On top of all that, this book is sort of dual POV in that the entire story is exerted with actual scenes chronologically from the fantasy novel that she's obsessed with, which is called a tale of saltwater and secrets.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you might at first be a little confused, but as time goes on, the events that happen in our fantasy novel start to foreshadow and impact the events in choices made in the events of our our contemporary novel, and it just becomes like one big epic love letter to romance.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's profanity, that's the perfect explanation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Before I went into it, I didn't know what this book was about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew it was called Fima Fantasy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew there was a mermaid on the cover, and I was not about to read the synopsis because that's not for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be spoiled what her name is.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when I went past the author's note and suddenly we were in a romanticy, I was like, [SPEAKER_00]: I am confused, just like you said.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we get to chapter one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as I'm making my way through it, my confusion quickly went away and transitioned to obsession.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm sure I'm not the first and will not be the last person to ask you of like, when is the full-length tale of saltwater and secrets coming out?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I absolutely loved that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what was that like to write those parallel scenes between romance and the actual story that we're reading with Juni?

[SPEAKER_01]: it was truly the most fun I've ever had writing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like it's looked healed me.

[SPEAKER_01]: This book reminded me like why I wanted to become an author in the first place, you know, it wasn't because of all the like free books and [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would add nothing to do with like all the glam and the glitz and the glory of publishing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to become an author because I want to get paid to research how mermaids have sex.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to read like apology about sirens and lore from like different cultures and different historical standpoints.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to pick and choose [SPEAKER_01]: the pieces to put into my own parody slash homage to romantasy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I also re-read like all of the big romantasy series of come out over the past five years to deep dive and I got to sort of like take and choose the elements that I wanted to create nods to and references to.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, if you read like a popular romantasy book in the past five years, you will like [SPEAKER_01]: you know what it is it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was just genuinely the time of my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also like I've just been obsessed with my maids for as long as I can remember, I was like an H2O girly, I was in Aquamarine girly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, green, green.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So good.

[SPEAKER_00]: The tale of Emily Winsnap, did you ever read that one?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I did and I also just read on voice of the ocean, which came out this year, a YA like little mermaid retelling, it's been on my mind for a long time that mermaids have disappeared from the cultural zeitgeist, yeah like vampires.

[SPEAKER_01]: and where wolves and now say and that like we need to bring roommates back and I never thought I'd get the opportunity to do so low and behold I have the best job of all time because I found a way to like continue being like a contemporary women's pickholder and still catcher right like the campy mermaid fantasy of my dreams so yeah it was it was the like the most fun thing ever basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I truly loved it like I started having my own little like mermaid era like anytime I see mermaid's now I like bought like a mermaid print from home good see because I was like I love this book so much And I have to tell you something like truly embarrassing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even embarrassing I won't even put it to that but like I've been editing my book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's quite sad and so like I needed something to like remind me of like how fun writing can be like [SPEAKER_00]: because there's a lot of grief in the book that I'm writing that I might have started writing a mermaid romantasy because I was like, I was so taken by the mermaid romantasy in your book that I was like, we are kind of like [SPEAKER_01]: When you write it, can you finish it for me?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I might be like 7,000 words into it already.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, and like, I'm having so much fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is this what I should be doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I should 100% be editing the book that I already wrote.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like so anytime I'm feeling like a little bit overwhelmed a little bit stress, I pop back into this like, it's already like a duality that I have like created.

[SPEAKER_00]: So come back in 2040 when you'll read my [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so, so, so excited to hear that you wrote that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I, first of all, you can do both.

[SPEAKER_01]: Look at someone like Isabelle Banta who, for first novel Honey, I loved and now she's writing an astrology fantasy novel, which I am going to eat the fuck up.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, set with your grief novel, grief is like one of the hardest things to write about, you know, don't rush the process.

[SPEAKER_01]: But every time you need a little break from all that heaviness, please let yourself escape into your magical world.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, that's where I actually was before before we got on because I just like, forgot like, literally it was you.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was reading this book that really got me there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because like, salty go for life, because I was with a call themselves like, oh, I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I need salty girl merch, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: 100% let Cosmo reads no.

[SPEAKER_00]: But one of my favorite parts of this, because like, I told you I didn't read the synopsis, but I did read the blog line for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when I read it, my mouth like my jaw dropped.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that is always fair and love and lore.

[SPEAKER_00]: What?

[SPEAKER_00]: like tell me when that dropped into your beautiful mind because that is fantastic.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were struggling with the tag lines.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is actually so I'm freaking out that you asked this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was in a yoga class, shout out why I said it on Burgundy Street.

[SPEAKER_01]: And all those fair and loving lore pops into my head, and I freak out because I'm like, I'm gonna forget it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't write it down.

[SPEAKER_01]: So for the entire 45 minutes I'd left, I just keep repeating to myself.

[SPEAKER_01]: All those fair and loving lore.

[SPEAKER_01]: All those fair and loving lore.

[SPEAKER_01]: All those fair and loving lore.

[SPEAKER_01]: The second I'd come out, I'd write in my notes app.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like call my agent.

[SPEAKER_01]: I email my team [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, whoa, come down like we still need to test it against like a couple other ones.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Kate my old editor was like, but it's got it's gonna be like, it has to be this what it has to be that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it literally just like a [SPEAKER_01]: appeared in my mind out of thin air after just like percolating on something for so long.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this is like why if you have writers block or if you're struggling to think of something, don't sit at your desk and like get angry at yourself for not being able to come up with the idea, like go do something else, like yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: District yourself, go for a walk, go do some yoga because I was I was fucking lunging and all's a bit of love with what's happening out of me like cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for recognizing that because I was so excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was screaming it like on my walk home.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like pitch black too.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I was editing a pass knee.

[SPEAKER_01]: I look like a maniac like with sweet green in hand, yoga mat and the other shouting all as fair and love and lore into the ether.

[SPEAKER_01]: So [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to help her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like love the image of you in your yoga class for 45 minutes, just like, like, blank stare, all as far as love and lore, just like over and over and over again.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's me all that's hot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I find that like, I have a lot of ideas when I'm in yoga, specifically, I think it's because it's like the only time.

[SPEAKER_01]: That my brain is ever at rest other than what I'm like reading other people's books So I spend most of my yoga class being like don't forget don't forget don't forget Don't we need to get your little yoga nopad?

[SPEAKER_01]: I need it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They don't allow devices in there, but also I would get nothing done if I had [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, if anyone's listening and ever has any sort of thought, no matter how like stronger benign it is, immediately write that shit down a notes app.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you think this is such a good idea, we'll never forget this for as long as I live.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't trust yourself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Write it down in your notes app.

[SPEAKER_01]: You'll know it's up either for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You will forget it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's actually there's I find that like writing in my notes app and then forgetting about it is actually quite fun because then I'll like scroll back through when I'm like maybe have a little writers block not sure where this is going and I'll scroll back through like an idea that I put there and I'm like I completely forgot that I had this idea let's put it in and [SPEAKER_00]: You'll forget.

[SPEAKER_00]: You will forget.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this whole episode is really good for anyone who is either a writer or like Dreaming of being an author because there's like a lot of like reality to it in the feelings and boundaries and Expectations that you need to set for yourself, but at the same time like the joy that comes from being in yoga class and having that idea [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much joy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hope I haven't sounded too negative.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, not at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like I have so much joy that publishing has given me and like a big part of that is like connecting with readers.

[SPEAKER_01]: God, community is such a gift falling back and love the creative process and having ideas come back to you again.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's just me, but every time I finish a book, I think I just have my last idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I immediately freak out that I'm never going to have my next.

[SPEAKER_01]: So just it's a gift to have a good thought come to you even if it needs fine tuning.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just so honored that like those thoughts keep choosing me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also author friendships I've been so blessed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Part of the reason I think I felt so lonely and confused with a bunch of other girls is like I didn't really have a author friends or community to like chat with and ask things of and that's definitely changed in the past few years.

[SPEAKER_01]: God, I'm so grateful for people who like validate my concert in confusion, but also like I can bounce ideas off of, anyway, it's all a big, it's all a big blessing, and all is fair, and love and love, perfect.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like speaking of ideas, what was the first idea you had for this book?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how did this come about?

[SPEAKER_00]: How did you decide that you were going to write a parallel contemporary romanticy book, which might have never been done before?

[SPEAKER_01]: Haley, similarly, to most famous girl and a bunch of other girls, the idea for this book came to me in full.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a two, three, a, um, thought.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I woke up in the middle of the night.

[SPEAKER_01]: with the idea in full and wrote the whole thing down and then went back to bed, which is like kind of how all of my ideas happen is that like I have a thought and then the plot just unfolds to me in full.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then later on, like when you woke up, what did you think about that?

[SPEAKER_01]: When I woke up, I was like, fuck, like, was that actually a good idea?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or was it like, I have weird dream and I wrote down nonsense?

[SPEAKER_01]: But now I read it back and I was like, I'm gonna write this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is the, this is the one, this is the next book.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I do write things and shelf them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've shelved three books, including the fly I that I mentioned to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, like full 80,000 word manuscripts, I'll write them and it won't feel right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll move on to the next idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I knew this one was like, I just I felt it in my, in my loyens, like in my whole.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't mean that like things don't change.

[SPEAKER_01]: I always like to say like, I'm a platter, but [SPEAKER_01]: My character is always pants me and they always surprise me and the big it there's a big subplot It's actually a couple big subplots in this book that had to be like tweaked and adjusted and edited in order to like make more sense And that's why a great editor comes in and God bless editors You will never be replaced by AI because [SPEAKER_01]: We need your full hearts and open minds to do the work that you do 100 percent.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I love about Juni is just like how relatable she is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like I've said it before in this interview, when recommending it to people, that like it really feels like you are Juni if you are romance reader.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in that, like, I feel like she is teaching us the value of romance in the same way that she is teaching it to Nico, who is her brother's best friend who's just annoying.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ew, Nico, who's just like impossibly hot.

[SPEAKER_00]: What could possibly happen there?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's just a nuisance, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that this is the perfect read for Gilmore Girls fans because of the element that you talked about of Juni's love.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've revolving around her favorite character because the listeners of this podcast are probably very familiar with female fantasy because I've mentioned it in several of our episodes recently.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's because we just finished our recap of Gilmore Girls on Patreon.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're talking a lot about what it means to be quote unquote on a team.

[SPEAKER_00]: because a lot of people ask us that question of like what team are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it for Rory?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it for yourself?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like is it your team just because you want to date us?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you team just because you think he's the best partner?

[SPEAKER_00]: For Rory and I feel like female's fantasy really brings up an interesting conversation surrounding that, especially because like toilets coming back to theaters in October.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's like, I feel like where Team Jass and Team Logan came from is like in retrospect of team Edward and Team Jacob.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like what is, I guess, Juni's perspective on that with Juni, it's driving her life because she hears that the sky is real and she's like, oh, well, there's my soul mate.

[SPEAKER_00]: I gotta go find them.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't seem like she is team rike for Mariah, but for Juni.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just so interested on your perspective on like team culture, like if you ever played into that as a teenager and where you said that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Juni's an interesting case, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because like, [SPEAKER_01]: She's been trying to date her way to someone for her for a very long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like her heart has been closed off.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's been looking for him, her, the, like, she wants her love story, god damn it, and she's going to have it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's interesting about her seeking it out with the eyebrow right, is that she's like every single one of these people have disappointed me on some level.

[SPEAKER_01]: could that be because the one person that won't disquite me that has all these attributes I've been looking in the wrong state.

[SPEAKER_01]: could it because I haven't like has everything led to this one moment where I can make a choice that could change the future's trajectory of my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that like it's interesting because like she isn't delusional.

[SPEAKER_01]: She understands like what she's doing is weird.

[SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't want to come across as like a stalker.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she honestly I think is like at that point in a lot of ways [SPEAKER_01]: and the idea that everything will always work out in the end as a mechanism for coping with some difficult things that happened to her.

[SPEAKER_01]: It passed and like only when she is forced to confront [SPEAKER_01]: Those parts of herself does her perspective on love and what it means to have a happy ending start to shift and change and get pieced together So yeah, it's interesting to think is is she Team right for Mariah or is she team right for herself in my opinion she's team right from Mariah and team [SPEAKER_01]: anyone who will like respect, cherish, and love her for herself, but what those three things look like shift and evolve over the course of the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: Her understanding of like what partnership means and what love can look like and feel like shift and evolve.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of that is informed by trauma, but of course, characters are what and dimensionals.

[SPEAKER_01]: So once you bring people to life, they're going to have in communities and flaws and inconsistencies and ways of surprising you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's something that Juni needs to learn for herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: and put something that everyone on the internet who creates these sort of like parasocial relationships with fictional characters also will learn for themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: When I was 14 years old, I was team Logan for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wanted to go to an Ivy League school.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to find a secret society man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted him to [SPEAKER_00]: Find me a luring if not a little bit annoying because I'm below those things and I wanted to find that And I was like this is like so informing so much of like what I want from a partner from a person But like getting older and like being in my 30s talking about gummer girls now It's just like so funny to look back at that and then like watch this show and I'm like oh, you're kind of a loser sometimes like [SPEAKER_00]: your kind of yako is what we've been calling him lately because he's having an affair while he's has a fiancee with Oregon Mar.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like there's that aspect of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, but we've been talking a lot about like where we finally ended in the series like what team you're on and it's like such a hard conversation to have with people because it's like are you coming at this because you are like projecting all of your own traumas and history onto this person.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember we were talking about team Logan when previously in our first interview, and you knew a lot of people like Logan growing up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're like, I can't be Logan.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, regardless of what's on the page, you bring a lot to the people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you accidentally create peer social relationships with every character that you interact with.

[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of accidentally because you're projecting so much of yourself onto it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think I honestly think that's why I connected so much with Juni because I was like, oh, and my new me when I was 14.

[SPEAKER_01]: I felt in a lot of ways like this book plays out what would happen if you followed that train of thought all the way off the rails like that's why this is like such a book for the fandoms for the fanfic girlies for the conspiracy theorists and the annotators and like the people that do create these sort of like parasocial relationships with official characters [SPEAKER_01]: It's all fun and games until those characters start to reflect people in real life that you can sort of project your fantasies onto.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when blinds really get blurry, and that's when people oftentimes need to be real-din.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why like, like, Larry Fanfic can have such dire consequences, because people become really...

[SPEAKER_01]: possessive of someone like Harry Styles and the same can go for like members of the love island cast right now and there are so many examples but ultimately there's a reason that fiction can inform like the way you think.

[SPEAKER_01]: feel and go about love.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it really can open your eyes and help you connect with yourself in better ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of ways romance can teach us about who we are as people and who we are as individuals.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's inward facing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's people like who discredited it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't really understand.

[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of internal reflection that romance leads to, and I think like that's a lesson that Juni learns in this book, and it's also a lesson that she desperately needs to teach Nico, who is very quick to dismiss any sort of reflection happening on the big- Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that this is like this book kind of marries that really interesting idea of like maybe kind of like the toxic version of like being on a team like being in fandom and like wanting to find that like exact person and going out and looking for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time reflective of like the nature of bookboy friends because I think that.

[SPEAKER_00]: that is sometimes where the outside community away from romance looks at romance is a little delusional but like it's really just informing you that you want like supportive partners, you want someone who values you, who treats you right, who never speaks ill of you, who is always just like on your team and it's like when you look at all of these like, you know, teams that have been created, you have to look back and it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: was that person ever team the main character?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that can really inform whether or not you're on the right team.

[SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think like we need to be careful with who we're calling delusional because it's just interesting to me that like we're so quick to call romance.

[SPEAKER_01]: Reader is delusional [SPEAKER_01]: allowing these books to sort of like teach us about our own wants needs and desires, but yeah, we won't call like I don't know [SPEAKER_01]: fantasy or historical fiction, or thriller, or sci-fi, paranormal, like all of these books that involve so much like world building and suspension of doubt, delusional, for allowing these books to shape their worldview, like how many men do you know that picked up?

[SPEAKER_01]: a sci-fi, or like a book about end times, and it's changed the way that they feel like they navigate the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why are you like, I don't think we should call them delusional, but if we're gonna call romance readers delusional, like, I don't know, maybe the call is coming from inside the library, like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: There was an interview I think it was on Good Morning America and Kennedy Ryan was there promoting Can't get enough, which is a fantastic book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can't get enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the men on the panel was talking about how she created men that women, it's like creating unrealistic expectations for women.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that she handled it was like master class and turning it back around, because it's like she didn't immediately respond to it, but later she was talking about how [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's a billionaire, but all of the ways that he supports her shouldn't be unrealistic, and I was like Now it was like the wrong person to say that to you because like that's something that she talks about all the time But it's like to see that I like immediately wanted to like repost it and be like sorry to this man's wife.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like [SPEAKER_00]: He should read female messages.

[SPEAKER_00]: Send it to him, PR box, straight to that man, straight to so many men.

[SPEAKER_00]: That like it's it's not delusional to read these and I think that sometimes talking about it with the girlies with our listeners, with our best use.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little preaching to the choir because they get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: They know, but it's just good to validate, validate you sometimes that you're in the right space and you're not delusional at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, we need to go have these conversations with our partners, friends, family, and me as co-workers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely with our enemies.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we're going to be the most impactful, the girls get it, and we all get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know, that question in theory, it's me so much, and it's really like, we've heated often in this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: but like that's him projecting like his own insecurities.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oh, I could never do those.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's in the same vein that like, it really pisses me off when, first, okay, I want to say something quickly.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love smart.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing wrong with smart.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love reading, erotica.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will be reading the new QB Tyler when it comes out.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of girlies who have no idea who that is, but like you're going to look that name up later and you're going to, you're going to have an awakening.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's very taboo or out of a writer and I eat of everything's rights.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in that same breath, it drives me crazy when mainstream media publications will publish articles about romance and romance see authors [SPEAKER_01]: to just smut, monster smut, fairy smut, dragon smut.

[SPEAKER_01]: This drives me crazy, because yes, is there spicy scenes in those books?

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, but like, I don't know, which book to use as an example, but like, let's say most people now have read like the first fourth way, whatever.

[SPEAKER_01]: you're telling me that that what like 600 page book, in which they fuck, I'm pretty sure once.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's give it 12 pages of sex.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's me being John.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's yeah, I don't think it's on.

[SPEAKER_01]: of all 600 pages, you're going to tell me that one scene is going to then define the entire like what I'm sure was months and months and months of like world building like religious system.

[SPEAKER_01]: God's languages, history, like, [SPEAKER_01]: It just feels like a total lineage and like it just, yeah, so reductive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it drives me crazy and like, I don't know, it's people tell me like, oh, these are easy reads.

[SPEAKER_01]: These are like not that deep.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, are you gonna tell that to the woman who just read a 10 book, 500 plus page book series, and took meticulous notes in the margins the entire time.

[SPEAKER_01]: on like a theory that she came up with at three o'clock in the morning and has an audience of like thousands following her like, it just shows that like whoever is on the side of insulting or kind of sending towards these books isn't just wrong, they're lazy, yeah, they're lazy, modernistic.

[SPEAKER_01]: It just really drives me wild.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad Kennedy got that question because I probably [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, she's like, and she's so like good at like redirecting and like just like answering to it in her own way Because she's like a fantastic champion for romance and like what an incredible writer What a time to be alive at the same time as her but speaking of fourth thing I actually had a really skewed experience reading that because I read it like long after it had been hyped and popular Everyone was calling it dragon smile.

[SPEAKER_00]: I did think that at some point they're we're going to be [SPEAKER_00]: Sexy dragons like I was so confused about that book was even about and I thought it was going to be so spicy They like literally just have like one Moment where they like are both in like the heat of passion of their relationship in a very natural way [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it was going to be like super gratuitous, based on how everyone was talking about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, whoa, okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe it's the second one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I read the second one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, maybe two scenes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just like the world-building and, yeah, like, more intricate plots.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, it doesn't have to be for everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, to reduce it down to one scene.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you could do that with so many, like, let's call it meant fiction.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's so many moments in like fantasy where it's like, we're experiencing, like, [SPEAKER_00]: sexual assault of women that's like normalized in these fantasy worlds.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, well, let's call it that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's reduce that to that because if we're like equating like sexual experiences through fiction, let's just do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really just because it's women enjoying things written by women.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and also like all these fantasy novels that are given the like capital F and are considered like impressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Feets of fiction whatever and again like I don't even want I'm not even trying to talk shit Like I haven't read a lot of them, but I know that a lot of them are incredibly detailed and I watched all of Game of Thrones And I know that that's what I was thinking of yeah Game of Thrones is crazy But like I don't know my like my brother-in-law reads like John Gwyn and all these different people what are all which to say [SPEAKER_01]: that like, I know for a fact that there is sex in those books, but it's not considered what smut or spiced because it's for the male gaze, not the female gaze.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry that the way that men have sex could not be less erotic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_01]: This wasn't fun for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sorry that this is like either you felt the need to like write sex into power punishment [SPEAKER_01]: in your novels or the sex is like so emotionless that it's like not enjoyable to read about.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't that we're just given past it.

[SPEAKER_01]: The novel standard really does it great on me and it also greats on me like to call out some of my [SPEAKER_01]: old colleagues like that a lot of publications just like play into the stereotype really well in foreign publications because I do think it creates a world in which like people sit down and start romanticized areas.

[SPEAKER_01]: or fantasy romance series, which are have even less size than them, expecting to get off.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, oh my god, I read 500 pages for nothing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Especially in YA, which is crazy, but it's like people complaining that the Legendborn series, or the cruel prince trilogy, aren't, you know, aren't spicy enough because there was mismarket to them, [SPEAKER_01]: a true failing, I believe, of both publishing and media to try to capitalize on what they see as publishing trends instead of just actually taking romance readers, the people who sort of have built the entire industry off their backs with their dollars, seriously, and catering to their wants and needs.

[SPEAKER_01]: And God, I really hope I am alive to see this change in real time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it really does the authors a disservice and like it's especially in the readership It kind of like leaves this like room of distrust that like the author had no intention with like thinking of the legend board cycle It's spicy like what like who who was doing that to my girl, were you like I love that series so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I love that series [SPEAKER_01]: was great.

[SPEAKER_01]: All of us should say like, I love to read everything and I have a lot of fun reading like a very dense 10 book fantasy series with like no open door romantic scenes and I love right reading like, I don't know, what's a really spicy one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Within romance, I love fluffy rom [SPEAKER_01]: I love, like, dark romance, I love, like, just, like, taboo erotica, I love hilariously written, like, sports, small town, Mafia, everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mafia, yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like romanticy, I like a one-shot fanfic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'll read any and everything get my hands on.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I also read outside my genre too.

[SPEAKER_01]: What greets up me is the lack of respect.

[SPEAKER_01]: like if roadmap readers can be respectful of readers of other genres while still managing to like shout from the rooftops about what we love build community and sort of keep publishing moving with our dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would hope that other readers and other members of other communities would be as respectful when talking about and approaching us.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's all that's all I need to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think, and I think it's so fair, especially like, marketing back to when you were talking about going to the book fast with female fantasy in Atlanta.

[SPEAKER_00]: Book stores not stocking romance or that they don't have a romance section.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what?

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have a section for the best selling genre of?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I recently went to London for my first ever, uh, you thought like so cool and I did my book event at London's first ever and only romance bookstore, which is called saucy books.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the owner who was just wonderful was telling me that they have a line up door every morning when they [SPEAKER_01]: All of their like community events have been really well attended.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like they're probably gonna have to expand soon because there isn't enough space in the store.

[SPEAKER_01]: People are like flying in from other parts of Europe because they want to see the store.

[SPEAKER_01]: And also like the credit lines she's being given by publishers to order books.

[SPEAKER_01]: she's selling those out in like an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like people need to believe that a store, like this will be successful and like, wow, and they were, they were a little bit trepidacious about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So like, oh my god, there is a demand for this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: We need to be building community around this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like having a well-stalked romance section is kind of like impaired as a favor, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe you hate for office.

[SPEAKER_00]: You hate being successful.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope that regardless of genres that female fantasy is at your local bookstore right now because you absolutely have to go get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is such a good book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely going to love it and if you do, please slip into my DMs and talk to me about it and tell me your favorite part because it is like I said, it's can't be, it's outrageous, it's fun, but it's also so sweet and tender and it's approach to love past trauma and all of the ways that romance can heal you.

[SPEAKER_00]: But before we go on, [SPEAKER_00]: You did post recently on your story that you submitted your fourth book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you able to say anything about it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Other than the fact that it will exist?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I actually, I got my edit letter right before Labor Day weekend and so by the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: You guys watch this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will have just turned in my first revision.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really sorry about this one.

[SPEAKER_00]: How did that edit letter make you feel?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling scared?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, always like anxious, especially just because the next month is going to be crazy for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, oh my god.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can't believe I have to.

[SPEAKER_01]: do my job when it's interpreting my job.

[SPEAKER_00]: How dare my job be here?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a new editor that I'm working with when I'm really excited about and there's basically one big note that I just want to like.

[SPEAKER_01]: clear if I want to walk through it with her before I dive in.

[SPEAKER_01]: But overall, it looks like the characters are there, the pieces at the story are there, and that's really important to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Clues about this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: My husband calls this one my crowd pleaser, or getting even more romantic, and your clue will be groundhog's day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that sounds fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will tell you more when I can, but it's a really fun novel.

[SPEAKER_01]: all at once.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had so much fun writing it and I really love the characters and something that I really love about all of my FMCs is that they're incredibly different from one another.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you might see some familiar paces that hear some familiar names.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, I do love that about all your books.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can, like, as we continue on, it's really the a monetary key at universe, as we make our way through various versions of New York.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're all, they're all in moms in New York, which I love so much.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is an incredible tease, I will say.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it still women's fiction romantic leaning?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or are we leaning more into romance?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is still considered commercial thick, but it's as close to a true romance as I've written so far.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, every book is very closer to true romance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I cannot wait.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will be here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a salty girl for life.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm always down for whatever comes next for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: But lastly, what is a book that you would recommend for your girl's lovers this fall?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well actually just this week read what I think might be my favorite book of the year so far.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a romance which is shocking but I went in like not really knowing what is about having zero expectations and then read it all four under pages in one day could not put it down and it's bombshell by Darryl Far.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god this book was so good it is eight bout [SPEAKER_01]: like a political eras living in Corsica who has like no real ambitions past being famous once she graduates from high school who gets kidnapped one night by three members of like a Corsican militia group like leading her resistance for like freedom fighting in the region.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she quickly goes from like being their captive for a hostage negotiation to wanting to join the movement to basically becoming their leader.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this FMC has like one of the funniest, like least...

[SPEAKER_01]: self-aware internal monologues of any character I've read in a really long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: All three men like obviously end up loving her in very different ways.

[SPEAKER_01]: In that like when I finished it I was like why did that kind of give me credence vibes?

[SPEAKER_01]: Which is, I mean, thanks a day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about credence.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's like it's funny, it's heartfelt, it's hot, and for me the ending, the last couple chapters was [SPEAKER_01]: Shaskis.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was shocked to find out this is a debut.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't won't read a book and thought If that doesn't become adapted into a movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm literally gonna get myself in a very long fight And my gosh, what a wreck think about when I finished it so bombshell a dare of far [SPEAKER_01]: really, really great.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think good for fall as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I also this month, just read, I actually did a lot of really good reading with month.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've been blessed by the reading gods, but I read spectacular things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm forgetting the name of the author.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let me look it up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is this one about the sisters, about sisters?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm a huge, I go crazy for a sister novel.

[SPEAKER_01]: by Backdory Stein.

[SPEAKER_01]: Backdory Stein, thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: My first Backdory Stein book.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you are a fan of Lucesters, Coco Moore's Blue Sisters.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was on earlier this summer.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I was talking about some of those people and publishing that have been like healing for me and joyful for me, Coco's, that's my girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: What a dreamy girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's, she's a dream girl.

[SPEAKER_01]: Check you out, things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Follows two sisters, opens on like, the most important night of their lives, the night, the changes, everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of them will play for the US National Team in the Olympics and win gold.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the other one will give birth to her firstborn, baby.

[SPEAKER_01]: However, when the latter experiences some like health problems and ends up going into kidney failure, the only way that like her life can be officially saved is with a donation from her sister.

[SPEAKER_01]: But in order to donate, said kidney, she would have to give up playing soccer forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: should be an easy decision when you love your sister.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the book takes you back in time to show you why it's actually a very complicated decision and not so black and white.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it is such a beautiful novel about family and sisterhood and legacy and how like no athlete, no creative, no like [SPEAKER_01]: quote-unquote star, get there on their own.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they have their own team unit, their family, their village, that's sort of like working towards this goal.

[SPEAKER_01]: You'll laugh, you'll cry.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I learned so much about soccer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so if you loved blue sisters, I think you will really like spectacular things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I already want to cry from the description.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I had known that it was about sisters because it was a racist book club pick and I saw it come up.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, oh, now I like, I'm actually gonna like leave talking to you and go find that book and read it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really love, I really love this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like we've given nothing but like maybe your new TBR at the end of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many good books that you can read.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry everyone, like you are going to be booked and busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that now that female fantasy is out, that that is part of your new TBR.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please, please, please, please, please, please enter your mermaid era here in October.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's time to check it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Check it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Please, dive in.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make a big splash this week, no pun intended, and if you find yourself thinking up this book, please let me know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to chat with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just so, so excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so grateful to Sweet Ali for inviting me back on my favorite podcast, so thank you so much for coming.

[SPEAKER_00]: My book-loving besties, thank you so much for joining me today for another episode of Gilmour to Read, if you'd like to join the book club conversation, head over to Patreon, Reconjoin for Free.

[SPEAKER_00]: For October, we're reading Love as a War song by Danica Nava, and Alice's Adventures in Wonderland by Louis Carroll.

[SPEAKER_00]: In November, reading a sexy will be reading Julia Song is undatable by seasonly.

[SPEAKER_00]: My next guest will be Danica Nava, but until then, happy reading friends.