[SPEAKER_06]: Hello everyone, welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with quirk tax and their good friends Tom and Harry.

[SPEAKER_06]: Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space 9.

[SPEAKER_02]: Your host for today are my fellow trek actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, Garrett Wong, and special guest, one of my favorite people on the planet, Jonathan West.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and of course, myself, Terry Farrell.

[SPEAKER_00]: Grand.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.

[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks everybody.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.

[SPEAKER_03]: For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com Ford slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today.

[SPEAKER_03]: You won't regret it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Alright, Jonathan, welcome.

[SPEAKER_06]: We are so excited to have you here.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_05]: I am too.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's been a lot of years since we really discussed this at the island and I really have never discussed it in detail in camera.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is the place I call it.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like breaking news on the Delta Fire.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to get the scoop for everybody.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I brought a friend.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's that front of the episode, yeah, the only one I got and you know it's been and it's been in storage for 30 years or so and it hasn't Multiplied yet.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm way.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh lucky.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't get it That looks like the one that had the tri-couple ball device in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's got that brownish color.

[SPEAKER_03]: It might be the one.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's the unique triple [SPEAKER_03]: Did you make trouble?

[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so you need, can't you, eh?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, for all of our listeners out there, just so you know how this happened in terms of how do we get Jonathan West?

[SPEAKER_03]: We had Jonathan on as one of our special interviews, and that's only available to our Patreon patrons, so that's another reason to check it out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Robbie and I and Armin had an amazing interview with Jonathan, and we came to the realization that he directed [SPEAKER_03]: the trials and tribulations episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: But during that time that he was directing it, nobody interviewed him.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's crazy.

[SPEAKER_03]: No one raises him.

[SPEAKER_03]: There is a fantastic magazine devoted something like 20 pages of their sci-fi magazine to this episode alone.

[SPEAKER_03]: They talk to everybody, wardrobe supervisor, a stunt coordinator, every single person, but Jonathan West, Robbie and I said, and we said, look, we're going to have you on as our special guests when we talk about recapping, discuss this episode because you have to have the time, the spotlight to be able to talk about this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not going to let him say a word, not a word.

[SPEAKER_06]: So this is the scoop everybody listening.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is you're getting the scoop the first time interview on this episode from Jonathan's Memories and His stories so it's very exciting and the delta flyers have brought this to this moment to you So we're so happy to have Jonathan here delta flyers [SPEAKER_03]: Excellent.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: But before we get into it, let's do some birthday's real quick.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do.

[SPEAKER_06]: I want to shout out to Jonathan Brooks and January 12.

[SPEAKER_06]: Happy birthday Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday Jonathan, I don't know you, but the same name, but you shouldn't.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday Jonathan, January 12th.

[SPEAKER_02]: And next we have Seth Carlson, January 14th.

[SPEAKER_02]: A very happy birthday to you, Seth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday, Seth.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday, Seth.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday, Seth.

[SPEAKER_03]: Next up we have on January 17th.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's the birthday of Jeremy Gaskin.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday, Jeremy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday, Jeremy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday Jeremy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Happy happy birthday Jeremy.

[SPEAKER_06]: And finally, a big happy birthday to that cow.

[SPEAKER_06]: I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly on January 18th.

[SPEAKER_06]: Happy birthday, dad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday.

[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday, dad.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday, dad.

[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday, Dad.

[SPEAKER_03]: All righty.

[SPEAKER_03]: There we go.

[SPEAKER_03]: Those are our birthdays.

[SPEAKER_03]: We also have a new prophet.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we just want to.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's not a new subscriber.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's been subscribing for a while.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's been a patreon patron, but he is now moved to the prophet level.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he's delighted.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's got a commitment.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's made a big commitment.

[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Chris Delman for being a new prophet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Chris, and welcome.

[SPEAKER_06]: Welcome Chris welcome Chris great to have you here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah welcome Chris now tell me my future [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's now time for our poetry synopsis breakdown of this episode and we'll start with Robby's Limerick and I will follow with my high coup and Terry's got a little Terry has which are some okay arman's garbage has a little uh this is gonna be a emoji yes a class in arts and sciences here we go my Limerick [SPEAKER_06]: A time travel orb sent them back through time and space, sending Dax into her very nostalgic place.

[SPEAKER_06]: She swooned over Spock.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sisko stayed steady as a rock, keeping Kirk alive and dribbles safe on the base.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_06]: Good job.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very nice.

[SPEAKER_06]: Terry, what's your poetry?

[SPEAKER_06]: What's your arts and sciences?

[SPEAKER_02]: my little arts and sciences?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Get to play dress up in 1967.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our gangs and Starfleet haven't drooling to meet Spock and Kirk.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can't be disrupt the timeline, jerk.

[SPEAKER_02]: Disrupt is a really hard word for me, Claire.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's a good, that's a very good poem.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is.

[SPEAKER_06]: How many poems do we get with the word jerk rhyming the word jerk?

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, not I mean, you bring Kirk into it, but I mean, there is not another opportunity in this.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't think this is Kirk's only appearance in DS9 that I'm aware of.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Kirk and Spock's only apparently.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here's my high coup for the episode trials and tribulations.

[SPEAKER_03]: Temporal agents.

[SPEAKER_03]: Our heroes, join past heroes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Tribbom found.

[SPEAKER_03]: Kirk, good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, good.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: You like how I took Tribbom and made a Tribbom instead?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, Armin, what is your etymology?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, for this episode, I have three words.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we'll start with trial, which is from the Scottish Triale or Triale.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the definition is the examination and determination of a cause by a judicial tribunal, determination of the guilt or innocence of an accused person by a court.

[SPEAKER_00]: The second word is tribulation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's from the old French word, Tribulation from the 12th century.

[SPEAKER_00]: A condition of a great affliction, oppression or misery.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no word in the old English dictionary for Trimble.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really?

[SPEAKER_01]: It just is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder it is.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I just input in this together.

[SPEAKER_06]: The word Trimble that they invented.

[SPEAKER_06]: that tribals are a tribulation.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're like a pox.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that's part of why they used it tribulation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Jonathan knows.

[SPEAKER_00]: Jonathan, you know why they showed?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Tribal was already in the 1967 episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but maybe I'm in the regionally from the tribals that it was supposed to be something.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'd have to ask the original writer, David Gerald, about that problem.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's still around his head.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's still around his head.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I have his phone number.

[SPEAKER_02]: Should we call him?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we should.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is house.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_03]: Robert Hewitt Wolfe, all those ads are ampersand ads.

[SPEAKER_03]: Tell a play by Ronald D.

Moore and Rene Shavaria, directed by our esteemed friend, Jonathan West.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, guest stars.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if anyone has any comments about any of these people, please chime in.

[SPEAKER_03]: First of all, we have Jack Blessing as Domer, one of the temporal agents, James W.

Jensen as the other temporal agent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Better known as Jim Jensen.

[SPEAKER_00]: who he and I were a tag team on a movie the week together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: His height and my shortness were just fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: And after we did the Star Trek episode, I did an independent feature film, but I directed and produced.

[SPEAKER_05]: cast Jim as a U.S.

Republican senator at a convention and he lent some beautiful work on all the ways.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can totally see him doing that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, good thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys notice their character names, but it is actually a tribute to the television show X-Files.

[SPEAKER_03]: The two main characters are Molder and Scully.

[SPEAKER_03]: Those are the FBI agents.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if you look at Domer, Domer, if you reverse the, the, the word, the syllable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the syllable.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's Molder.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's space.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, Oh, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: Luckily, it's actually Scully, kind of reverse the jumbled up words there to letters.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they use the same letters and they turn it into new names.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's called the anagram.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like an anagram.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to say, isn't there a name for that?

[SPEAKER_00]: There is a grain, but it's not, this is the Jonathan he just told you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's all the stuff I didn't learn in the senior year of high school.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you were working, you were working.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was.

[SPEAKER_03]: We also have Charlie Brill reprising his role as Arne Darwin from the original series episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's amazing that he was so excited.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was he?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: So thrilled.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is this wife's name Mitzi?

[SPEAKER_00]: Mitzi.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they were a tag team on laughing by the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: They were so much fun to have on the set because they so kind and excited and they shared great stories, just really, really sweet people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I suppose your friends with them aren't you, Herman?

[SPEAKER_03]: I am.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, co-stars, we have Leslie Akerman, Leslie Akerman, played the waitress in the bar, whatever you call it on K7, DSpace K7.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was close friends with Leslie at the time.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was in the middle of doing a TV movie, and I knew this part was coming up.

[SPEAKER_05]: She had been doing so much work over the years at Universal, practically guest starring at every thing that they did.

[SPEAKER_05]: but she her career was kind of winding down a little bit and I asked her if she would audition for this.

[SPEAKER_05]: role.

[SPEAKER_05]: Later on, we became co-producers together on that feature I was discussing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then in 2002, she became my manager.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's been my manager for the last 20 years.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we're still close friends.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So Leslie is very talented actress.

[SPEAKER_05]: And she was kind of she was great.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was great.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was great.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was a bravo from us.

[SPEAKER_00]: She got the tone of the period just perfect.

[SPEAKER_05]: that arm and she worked with you on a women at West Point.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, she was going to have a story.

[SPEAKER_02]: She was going to have a story with a little girl.

[SPEAKER_02]: You don't see that look on his face very often.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was the second one.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is the first time I ever worked on camera.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just had moved to New York and got cast in that and they shipped me to West Point.

[SPEAKER_06]: If we were to get to hear this, you talked about this job of her and Linda Pearl were like the two leads.

[SPEAKER_02]: I loved Linda Pearl.

[SPEAKER_05]: Rumates and you were the teacher.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was a teacher and instructor in the math class.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I won't go into it, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that is years.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to add, I watched the original series Trouble with Tribbles, and specifically wanted to check out her costume, the original, and yeah, and it was remarkable how well she captured the tone and everything, because for a minute watching it, I thought, is that cut out from the original show?

[SPEAKER_02]: I watched our show first, and then I watched the original, but she even, [SPEAKER_02]: It was crazy.

[SPEAKER_02]: It looked like you pulled her right at a time.

[SPEAKER_02]: She did such an amazing job.

[SPEAKER_05]: Good, good.

[SPEAKER_03]: So appreciate that coming.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, next up on the co-star lists, we have Charles S.

Chun as the engineer who also did a really good job.

[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a chart.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know Charlie Brill, but I know Charlie Chun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Charlie Chun is another Asian American actor that was auditioning for the same roles that I was auditioning for at the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Charlie and I actually had an acting workshop together that we attended.

[SPEAKER_03]: at one point and I was so surprised to see him and and again he also captured that 60s era sort of uh he did I can't wait to bump into Charlie to say congrats and oh yeah and especially such a small part it's always harder to come in and have it all full and he did he was great oh yeah he's the new kid in in school basically and he anyone guest starring right so coming in like that and pulling it off is [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we also have Diedra L.

Emershine as Lieutenant Wattley.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now I know her.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Her husband is Joe Hage.

[SPEAKER_00]: So her last name now is Hage.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hage.

[SPEAKER_00]: Joe Hage for those theater of nerves out there runs the Guthrie theater.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, in Minnesota.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and for those of you, don't know the Guthrie theater and the reason we got these reactions from everybody here is the Guthrie theater is the premier regional theater in the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's the next step down below Broadway.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and Joe has been the artistic director there for several years.

[SPEAKER_00]: He cast me as the fool and King Lear, and it was a glorious production, and [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure, Deedron and I must have crossed paths, I just don't remember, but when I found that she was Joe's wife, I was gobsmacked.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does she still act like that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would hope that Joe puts her in a production or two.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure he does.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Armin, the Guthrie, if I'm not mistaken, is probably the most well-indouled regional theater in the country in terms of their funding for what I've heard, so I [SPEAKER_00]: Minnesota is incredibly kind about the arts and I don't want to go too much about this, but I find remember correctly 3% of the state budget goes to the arts.

[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the gothory is the primary artistic venture in Minnesota.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there may be others who would argue with me, but that is, and the guffing theater is, is, it has four theaters, three restaurants, it's an institution.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it in Minneapolis?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right on the Mississippi River.

[SPEAKER_00]: right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've never been.

[SPEAKER_02]: That would be a good journeyman's trip to just experience it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And just to put a fine point on it, there's an actor who works there all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: His name is Remi O'Barrison.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can see the connection.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's so sweet.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Remi works in his wife.

[SPEAKER_00]: They all work at the Guthrie on a regular basis.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Time for a little bit of trivia.

[SPEAKER_03]: This episode trials and tribulations was conceived as a tribute to Star Trek the original series.

[SPEAKER_03]: This was to coincide with Star Tricks 30th anniversary.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Paramount actually asked Executive Producer Iris Steven Bear to come up with [SPEAKER_03]: a suitable story to mark the event, the 30th anniversary of Star Trek.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the writing staff got together and they sort of brainstorming and they started thinking about what episodes from the original series that they can harken back to.

[SPEAKER_03]: Iris Steven Bear really loved the episode Charlie X.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it was, I think it was Renee Achevari, because Ron Moore also liked an episode called a piece of the action that was the original series.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they were fighting over.

[SPEAKER_03]: They were fighting over, which episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Renee Achevariah was the one who said that, we can possibly revisit a classic episode using original footage from that episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they were sitting here discussing this actually at a pizza restaurant.

[SPEAKER_03]: And as they're sitting there, Charlie Brill was also eating at the bar with his wife, and so can you believe it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Charlie and Mitty were at the same place, because they actually said why don't we just want to try the trouble with triples?

[SPEAKER_03]: And as they said that, someone looked up and goes, is that the actor from a trouble with triples?

[SPEAKER_03]: And they're like, it is!

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they walked up to him and said, hey!

[SPEAKER_03]: We are thinking of possibly using, you know, the episode you worked on, many, many moons ago as our episode, we're going to base our due space line episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Charlie was thrilled.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's like, what?

[SPEAKER_03]: You want to read?

[SPEAKER_03]: I get another shot at this.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, it was just Kismet basically that this happened.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that was Ira who looked up and saw him.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, was it Ira who saw him?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but talk tell you about this at the time, Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, after the fact when we were doing the Dapes, Deep Space Nine retrospective documentaries, I found out about it then.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was 2016.

[SPEAKER_02]: It makes sense, though, because we had to scramble.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was so much work.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, it's funny because Bear, I was even Bear, was joking in a DVD audio commentary that because of the them seeing brill at the restaurant that that proved that God was a deep space, non-famous.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's funny too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Charlie Brill joined the fact that he was happy that he and his wife decided not to go to Chinese food and went to the pizza place because if they went to have Chinese, they never would have been part of this whole thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a Star Trek miracle.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_06]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_03]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be doing this [SPEAKER_02]: And the technology doing it and how they did such a great job, Jonathan West, it's such a great job.

[SPEAKER_02]: The writers, everybody, I think we had two or three days of green screen doing the stuff that we were doing on the bridge alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it was so well done, but just the pride of being not only part of Star Trek, but Star Trek living up to the legacy of having ideas that turn into advanced technology for us, that we did something in film that was, you know, a first, a first.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it just gives me goosebumps.

[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me so proud of everybody who's a part of Star Trek and so proud to be a part of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and to add to that, if I may ask Jonathan, if I may ask Jonathan, so Terry just talked about how much it was a first.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to tell us now about what are the things you had to do as far as to make it work to make us make the actors fit into the old footage.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'll preface it by saying I have to give a huge nod to Gary Hutzl, the late Gary Hutzl unfortunately, but he was the visual effects supervisor.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's the one after I got the job, which I had.

[SPEAKER_05]: question why I was getting it and then I soon found out why because it was such a technical piece of work that had to be accomplished in the short amount of time.

[SPEAKER_05]: They figured since I was a cinematographer and a director, I would kind of get that short-hand really fast.

[SPEAKER_05]: You do, D.P.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's an entity.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, you're the trifecta.

[SPEAKER_05]: But Gary came in and they had done a list, like this is the list of clips that they were going to use in that show.

[SPEAKER_05]: There were 56 different clips and 36 of them are going to be visual effects shots.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not all of them blue screen or green screen, but at least visual effects.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they knew in advance coming into it.

[SPEAKER_05]: They had storyboarded in the writer's room or something.

[SPEAKER_05]: The types of shots that they were going to match to.

[SPEAKER_05]: This shot and that shot it will and we'll put our characters here So they kind of had that in mind already.

[SPEAKER_05]: Gary and I then poured over that and the production schedule was made Around that then I was responsible for the rest of the scenes I had to formulate or figure out visually all of the scenes that with the threads the glue that that put all of these together I can't believe they didn't interview that's so f*** up [SPEAKER_02]: I just, it's mind-blowing how you're so integral to all of this working and the lighting is insane too, did Chris just cross-grove do that on his own or did you help him with that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Chris, first of all, I was the cinematographer but I didn't want to do both jobs, so I moved up Chris Crosscove, our camera operator.

[SPEAKER_05]: and he became the director for photography and needless to say he and I both watched all the clips we watched the original episode and then all the clips we were going to use and then figured out okay we have to add these elements we have to add these actors to this particular thing plus the new the new shots that they did with all of the sets that were built I mean they built two or three corridors and the bridge and [SPEAKER_05]: and the K7 lounge, and all of that had to be matched, I mean perfectly.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, Chris and I use, we use a different film stock.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a finer grain, slower film stock, which closer matched the color quality that you would get back in the late 60s like that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then all the lighting, I mean Chris, [SPEAKER_05]: in the middle of it, Chris would said, John, I need another light because I have to put another shadow on the wall because this is what we were matching, you know, Kirk would cross down and he'd have two shadows over here and two shadows over there and he's walking through these primary colors, you know.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, well, people listening just, you know, when Jonathan's talking about Chattas, we try to avoid Chattas.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're moving your movie lights to be creating a Chattas these days, but back in the original series, it was just probably less, you know, a lower quality TV, so they didn't worry about Chattas quite as much.

[SPEAKER_06]: They didn't have time or money to deal with it.

[SPEAKER_05]: It also had to do Robby, just to add to that moment.

[SPEAKER_05]: it required a lot more light back then and so you were using studio lamps that were the Fernel kind of lamps that projected light.

[SPEAKER_05]: There was no such thing as bounce lighting and the insects were hotter so every time you have a hard light something's going to cast a shadow and you have a and as they move they walk from one light to the other so the shadows have a tendency to follow them.

[SPEAKER_05]: Whereas when we were doing our show, it was probably an eighth of the amount of lighting, as far as it was.

[SPEAKER_05]: I would say less.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And those beautiful silk things you'd put up for us.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, all that stuff, the bounces and the lower levels and the faster film and the faster lenses that needed less light to expose properly.

[SPEAKER_05]: All of that contributes to the more modern approach that we have, and even today it's even less.

[SPEAKER_06]: And speaking of lenses, Jonathan, so these days, there's a record keeping of the lenses that you use in case you have to go back and pick something up or match to something.

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you have any of that information from the original series, the lenses or any of the technical?

[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't have any of the visual effects notes.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's all Gary Hudsel.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he may have guessed at, I would think, no, we kept no, it's Gary was on this.

[SPEAKER_06]: You kept notes, but I'm saying to match, you didn't have the original information from the original.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no, from the original.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, we, Gary guessed.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I guessed.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you both guessed about angles is...

[SPEAKER_00]: as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not only the lenses, but it's how you look at the actors, what's the eye line?

[SPEAKER_05]: And the distance of the actor, the eye line, all that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, it's funny as you shoot more in your life is a camera person.

[SPEAKER_05]: You can kind of figure out where the height is.

[SPEAKER_05]: where the horizon line is, and any shot that you look at just by knowing optics and lenses.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it wasn't that tough and plus we also had the playback.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we were able to take those clips on a monitor.

[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't an HD monitor, but it was just a regular television monitor.

[SPEAKER_05]: and project that image and play it back and then we could line up our cameras with that.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we said, oh, you know what we need to be a little closer here.

[SPEAKER_05]: We need to be a little wider, a little more zoomed in or whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we were able to match it pretty close.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the tool that you use, just everybody listening who's not familiar with film, the tool you use is a switcher.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, you have the old footage and your new thing that you're filming, your shot that you're filming, and then they kind of can cross fate.

[SPEAKER_06]: If you can imagine sort of superimposing the old shot over that new shot with a switcher, a video switcher.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right, they can fade in and out so you can kind of find the best [SPEAKER_06]: Um, optical match so that you line things up well.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And is it even better now Robbie 30 years later?

[SPEAKER_02]: I would imagine it must be.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would think so.

[SPEAKER_00]: The the the the playback and the two.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a question that's a little bit touchy enough to because of all this that you were just saying Jonathan and because this all had to be done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was there any discussion of the episode being shot in nine days instead of eight days?

[SPEAKER_00]: So they forced you to do extra work, but in the time frame of episode that didn't require this extra work.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, and I guess our hours probably showed that.

[SPEAKER_05]: I would imagine I don't have all the hours written down here, but I do remember.

[SPEAKER_05]: One evening we had wrapped or we were going to wrap, we had done 12 hours and it was about 9 at night on a Friday.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we got notes sent down from the office and said, stop everything, stay there, everybody don't move.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they gave us three more pages to shoot.

[SPEAKER_05]: In the turbo lift with Bashir and Ryan.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wow, that we were done one in the morning at that point.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I think we all pushed, getting back to the visual effects of the only things that really were so critical, Terry, when you were on the bridge with Kirk, and you walked down on the frame, you walked behind him as he got up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: We hadn't been doing a lot of tracking shots up until that point in television.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, most of the green screen and blue screen work was just the camera was locked off, bailed to the ground.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this was one of the first episodes where the camera was moving.

[SPEAKER_05]: So even though you weren't moving on the green screen steps, Gary then had to take your shot and move it at one frame at a time to match the steps that were in the background in the old film.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and it was all superimposed, you know, composite of that way, but it was, yeah, I did that in the green screen.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the bridge, it was all green.

[SPEAKER_02]: They made it all green.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when you walked in, it was, it looks super weird, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That is, but the steps were green.

[SPEAKER_02]: The console was green.

[SPEAKER_02]: The chair that Kirkwood had been in was green.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was really grateful that we'd already spent so many years doing all of this, you know, I'd already played two taxes at the same time, we'd already done all of these, like, look at the spot and pretend it's whatever.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we all had a lot of confidence during those greens, green days.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it was fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't like, oh gosh, I hope we get this.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just you paid attention to focus.

[SPEAKER_02]: You got it done.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it was fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was actually really fun not being, [SPEAKER_02]: on the lot too was fun being in this different studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was in a different studio.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, one of it was on the lot.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think the steps were on the lot, but the one with you in Cisco.

[SPEAKER_02]: The green screen Scott.

[SPEAKER_02]: When you step wasn't on the lot.

[SPEAKER_05]: Some of it, some of it was.

[SPEAKER_05]: Some of it was, but there was a day that we shot at image G when there we go, image G.

When Kirk and Spock were walking down the hallway and you were in the background.

[SPEAKER_05]: You were in the background as the camera dollied around and revealed you in the background.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was a meticulous shot because it's huge monstrous motion control camera was what they had to use back then and they had hand programmed each of the moves to match the dolly moves that the camera made back in 1967 or 1968 from the episode and every frame.

[SPEAKER_05]: was put into the computer so that when the motion control camera was here, you were waiting to go to get on and the motion control camera came around, photographing nothing, and all of the sudden you came in from the left side of frame, and it matched perfectly when they composited with the original footage, but that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, how good I am.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you see how good I am?

[SPEAKER_05]: That was the tougher shot.

[SPEAKER_02]: You guys are amazing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the other tough shot was a Brian, but we're going through.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll get to that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_02]: We should probably start this show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can I?

[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't started.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to say this truly was a herculean effort to get this done.

[SPEAKER_03]: This was probably the most expensive Star Trek episode to date at this point.

[SPEAKER_03]: They put so much money into this one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, they even want to do at the end of the end credits.

[SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to show original series Letter.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, but they couldn't even they had spent so much money.

[SPEAKER_03]: They couldn't even do that They were like, oh, we can't do it that done But I wanted to bring up from our interview that we had with you Jonathan one of the things that I thought [SPEAKER_03]: was amazing, other than the fact that you guys had to eyeball everything to match the lenses, the color, the lighting.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you also had to match when the dolly, the original series dolly hit a bump, you had to match that too.

[SPEAKER_03]: You were talking about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you recall the, [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that was the motion control cam.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot of control, yeah, wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: They actually had to program every bump.

[SPEAKER_05]: Nowadays, you can track it on your laptop.

[SPEAKER_05]: You give a piece of an editing software and there's tracking involved.

[SPEAKER_05]: So you could have done this shot for $18 and instead of $20,000, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so crazy technology.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Last few bits of trivia.

[SPEAKER_03]: Saracloftino obviously does not appear in this episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately George I just barely made it in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you barely made it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of 153.

[SPEAKER_05]: Speaking of armoured.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the only time.

[SPEAKER_02]: The future view of Tribbles all over the place with everywhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the only time that Cork appears on camera without a line in the entire series.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh wow.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's that's the only time.

[SPEAKER_03]: At the, yes, George to K does not appear in this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we did not rehearse at my house that week.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, no rehearse at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're rehearsals called off.

[SPEAKER_03]: George Decay does not appear in this episode, but he also did not appear in the trouble with tribals, the original series episode either.

[SPEAKER_03]: But he did appear in Voyager's tribute to the 30th anniversary of Star Trek, which is the episode flashback.

[SPEAKER_03]: Robby, if you recall, he had him there.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he got his chance.

[SPEAKER_03]: He had a big two-vac episode, so we paid tribute to him in that episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: It took three months to negotiate the use of the original series Actress performances in this episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Walter Canick stated that he was paid eight times more for the use of his likeness than what he was paid to film the original episode.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Final bit of trivia David Gerald who wrote the original series episode trouble with triples can be seen in this episode twice Two scenes When Cisco and Dax are are dealing with red alert, we see a cross with David Gerald and later Bashir and O'Brien see him in the corridor petting a triple and that triple that he's petting is an actual triple from the original series episode Oh my god with him.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so sweet.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah [SPEAKER_00]: just a comment on your not no dialogue as they always say one picture's worth a thousand words you wrap the show it was a great shot yeah it was a great shot was a great shot there are two other actors that we haven't mentioned who are in the background who are intrinsic to my life one is Bill Schallert [SPEAKER_00]: who appeared in our show early on in the first season.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was, I remember, he was the floutest.

[SPEAKER_00]: A floutest, exactly.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was the floutest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was that with the DACs episode?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was that the DACs episode?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was called DACs.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Bill was in this episode in the original.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so was a man named Witt Bistle.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know Witt Bistle because his daughter is responsible for my being an actor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't put it in any other way.

[SPEAKER_00]: She discovered me in high school.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my word.

[SPEAKER_00]: And her mother was an acting teacher.

[SPEAKER_00]: God, her mother interested in me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was my first acting teacher.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she was married to Whitt Bessel.

[SPEAKER_00]: The lady I went to school with is called his her name is Victoria Bessel.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what a Whitt Bessel play in this house.

[SPEAKER_00]: What was he?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, because I'm watching the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I see him there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know which character he played.

[SPEAKER_00]: He may be the person that Kirk is talking to at one point [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he played Lurry, Lurry, the station manager guy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he was in the original episode as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was in the original.

[SPEAKER_06]: I see, I thought you meant that he was in in your with you, but he was in no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: He was in the original and in both Bill Schallet, Bill Schallet, by the way, who was the president of Screen Actors Guild for many years, that's why I first met him.

[SPEAKER_00]: Bill and and went both did over 300 episodes of different TV shows along the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: They both had huge careers in television.

[SPEAKER_05]: I met William Schallert back about a year before we did the triple show.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I mean, before they did the triple show, I should say back in 1967, I had been enacting mostly in college and small theater and I got a call from William Schallert saying, I saw your performance, blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're having a reading at theater west of a play, and we need a teenager.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, can you come and read it?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just a reader round, you know, and I went, huh, okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so I showed up and Betty Garrett's there and William Schaller's there and all of these actors that I knew from movies that I had seen, heavy hitters.

[SPEAKER_05]: Heavy hitters.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I got, I got to at least do the reading with them, but play didn't get produced.

[SPEAKER_05]: But, uh, [SPEAKER_05]: It was a thrill.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a real thrill.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Robbie, you remember Robbie when we watched the original episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about how there's a station manager.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's not even part of Starfleet.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's the guy that went this old play.

[SPEAKER_03]: The manager of the station.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, Robbie, jump into this episode at the beginning.

[SPEAKER_06]: Alright, let's dive into this episode, seen by scene and break it down and get all of Jonathan and Terry and Armin's memories.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm so excited.

[SPEAKER_06]: The first scene starts in Ops.

[SPEAKER_06]: We see a pair of strangers.

[SPEAKER_06]: We haven't met these men, Dolmer and Luxly.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're from temporal investigations, we learn, and we also learn they do not have a sense of humor, I noticed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we learn that very quickly.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Jack's tries to make a joke, and they don't laugh, they have right off to find Cisco, they seem very serious, and it's a nice look there at the end between Kira and Jack's in the scene.

[SPEAKER_06]: I like that sort of those, [SPEAKER_02]: that was sweet.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nonverbal kind of performances.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: It set the mood to it set the tone for what we're about to enter because it was a little lighter than normal in terms of how you reacted to one another and even with Cisco too, once they get into the interview with Cisco, which you haven't gotten together.

[SPEAKER_05]: But the fact was that you had those [SPEAKER_02]: But saying it was a different tone, it is a perfect way to describe it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, technically it's the right way to describe it, but it really was.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was more fun, lighter.

[SPEAKER_00]: So to that, forgive me for interrupting because that, that just intrigues me.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the not and Terry were used to playing their characters.

[SPEAKER_00]: You were used to seeing them play it a certain way.

[SPEAKER_00]: You write in this scene, they're not playing the characters as we normally see them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was that the actor's choice or was that the director's choice?

[SPEAKER_05]: I was looking for it, but I don't think I really had to say anything.

[SPEAKER_05]: Say anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was how it was written, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right, exactly.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just had to watch out.

[SPEAKER_05]: As we talked about in the past, I was looking for beats as we went along and I had had that tone meeting with Ira where we went through the entire script, getting a sense of that tone because the original had that tone also, the original was [SPEAKER_05]: Dry, you know, the balance, yeah, really doing a balance.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I wanted, we wanted to be able to fit into that fit into the existing footage.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we go into Cisco's office.

[SPEAKER_06]: We learn there the time police.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to call them the time police.

[SPEAKER_06]: These guys.

[SPEAKER_06]: They want Cisco to explain what the heck happened.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't know what happened yet.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's, you know, a mystery to us.

[SPEAKER_06]: And clearly this is, they're asking about something that has happened that we didn't see, so Cisco's going to talk us through it, and at the end of the scene he starts talking them through it, talking about this orb of prophecy that it's a sacred, bejorn object that they went to investigate and the one that they received from the Kardashians was the orb of time.

[SPEAKER_06]: and they didn't realize it at first, and he says when the defying arrived at Cardassia Prime, we weren't sure if we were dealing with a genuine orb or one of the fakes that have cropped up.

[SPEAKER_06]: They secured it in some quarters before they left.

[SPEAKER_06]: They took on this passenger, this guy, [SPEAKER_06]: And so that's what we basically in Cisco's office start to get into the episode and the story of the episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: And one of the things that Cisco knows already is what's happened.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's already experienced all of this and one of his driving forces is to [SPEAKER_05]: deal with these guys.

[SPEAKER_05]: Make sure they get the truth, get the information, but not necessarily all the truth.

[SPEAKER_05]: He has to hold back a little bit what he's experienced, and especially he already knows how our episode ends.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he knows that.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there's a certain bit of charm and humor [SPEAKER_05]: You know, he's in on it.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's in on it, but he has to be protective of letting too much actual information out to the guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a question.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I understand Cisco knows he's going to have the episodes going to end and of course he's played Cisco now for five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, but Jim and Jack are new to this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are new characters to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't necessarily know what they've gotten themselves into.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yet you got, or they got, this wonderful sergeant Friday, that's all I can call it for people who's old as I am.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have trying that in my notes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have the same in my notes, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this sort of sergeant fried dragon at attitude and delivery, one of the funniest things in the episode is Jim saying it's a Friday.

[SPEAKER_00]: The started such and such and such and such and it's a Friday.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the delivery was right on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, is that the actors or is that you saying to them, can I get it a little sharper?

[SPEAKER_00]: Can I get it a little bit more like dragon?

[SPEAKER_00]: the guys were prepared.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have to tell you those two actors.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like they rehearsed it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we don't get rehearsals before them.

[SPEAKER_04]: You do in our trailers.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you do it in your trailers, so they worked it out.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's partially in the writing too.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the timing is there in the dialogue, kind of just the facts, man, by attitude.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I was again, I was watching for it.

[SPEAKER_05]: If it wasn't there, I would have made a note, but they were there.

[SPEAKER_05]: They were right on it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Where the writers, I've a question, where the writers down for this special episode did they because I know they didn't normally come, but it was this episode where maybe they came to settle a little more.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's shocking hardly at all.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is shocking.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't remember.

[SPEAKER_05]: Of course I could have been so focused on what I was doing that I wouldn't know who was out there, you know.

[SPEAKER_05]: watching from afar.

[SPEAKER_00]: You would have thought that this episode that was asked for by Paramount would have had executive sort of checking in every night.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would ask not only for the writers there was Berman there and I know the answer to that, but Berman wasn't there either.

[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've been doing it for a while, though.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yes, but this is an episode asked for by a caramel.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a big deal.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is not just a, I'm not saying that it's not.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying that I think at a certain point, they trust that all the ducks are in order.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and no.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, honestly, like nowadays, writers on set is the most common way to do things to have a writer on set.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not just season one, and then they disappear all the way through the finale.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're there every episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember doing TV movies and the writer was there.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember doing guest stars and the writers were there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our show didn't have the writers there in general.

[SPEAKER_05]: They weren't there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly and I think that's before some of the contractual things change with the writer's skill.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe [SPEAKER_05]: 10 years ago.

[SPEAKER_06]: So the next scene, uh, we're in the mess hall of the defiant.

[SPEAKER_06]: We meet Waddle, this human.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says call him Barry.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says he was trapped on Cardacia when the Clingons attacked and he goes to make some rack to Gino in this scene and accidentally insults Worf's smell.

[SPEAKER_06]: Talks about Clingons and how they smell.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, and that's kind of ironic.

[SPEAKER_06]: But Bashir and Abrayan say, you know, they like the way he smells.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's sort of earthy, piti aroma with the touch of lilac.

[SPEAKER_06]: I found that very descriptive.

[SPEAKER_06]: I've never thought about the way playing on smell, but I like that detail.

[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that'd be a great t-shirt, a warf t-shirt, just worth face and underneath and letters, earthy, p-d with the touch of lilac, perfect.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was a fun scene and tonally to have the actor in the scene.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was fun.

[SPEAKER_06]: Again, you're keeping that comedic lighter tone even in the scenes [SPEAKER_06]: It was great, it was a lot of fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that Charlie is a comic, he's a comic.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how that house to put it, but he and his wife are a comic team.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as I said earlier, they were on laugh in for years, they've done a ton of comedy together.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what's interesting is to see this comic actor with comic impulses working in what's basically a dramatic series.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but I think he brought our good stuff in the regular.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think he brought out even in Michael with his silent looks and things.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was just there was a lightness to it and you brought that out, Jonathan as well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, thank you.

[SPEAKER_05]: It felt real and that was one of some of my notes were keep it real, keep it honest, no tongue and cheek for the human, the characters have to believe what they're doing and the comedy comes out of [SPEAKER_05]: the situation and the writing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I did have a note.

[SPEAKER_05]: Be careful of Charlie not too much stick.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Money that you mentioned there.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Are these notes that you wrote in your script from a tone meeting?

[SPEAKER_06]: Is this work concerns the writers had that you wrote down or these your thoughts are hard to remember?

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that particular note was on a back page, so I think it was [SPEAKER_05]: most of my notes I had typed out, but then some of the stuff I did in the tone meeting, I just scribbled as I ran, I were going through it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that was a scribble note in the back saying, watch out for the stick.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it must have been from my tone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I brought it up is because birds of a feather flocked again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, the Charlie thing was also an optical effect.

[SPEAKER_05]: We had to burn in the stuff that was on the screen because it wasn't prepared yet.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that had a lot of coaching.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a lot of that stuff with the monitors that our audience when you're watching in an episode, you'll see graphics and things.

[SPEAKER_06]: Those weren't ready.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so often that was sometimes they were ready, but often, [SPEAKER_06]: the actors are just pointing to a green screen.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, especially if there's something different than a just a graphic in that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if there's movement like it was Charlie's picture and things like that, that wasn't set up yet.

[SPEAKER_03]: The lightness from that scene in the mess hall continues on to the bridge.

[SPEAKER_03]: The banter continues.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know Brian talks about.

[SPEAKER_03]: next time you see him just sniff the air and go is that lilac so lilac continues uh there this dex says uh find somebody else i have my own ways of torturing warf so she can torture him in her own ways but it's also very very again i love the banter here all of a sudden oh Brian picks up a massive surge in chronoton radiation [SPEAKER_03]: any time we hear chronic on radiation, we know it's a time jump.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everything flickers and all of a sudden we have, I guess, is that a filter that you put in there?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is that all in post-production that little?

[SPEAKER_05]: We might have had a few lights change intensity, but the orange glow that was throughout was all visual effects at the end post-production.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, they've jumped 200 light [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, what do you expect is going to go orange, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is that orange alert when they go 200 like here?

[SPEAKER_06]: But then they see the classic enterprise on the view screen, flying by.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh boy.

[SPEAKER_06]: we know we're in for some fun there.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the actual original enterprise is sitting in the Smithsonian.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they had to build their own enterprise for this one.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, really.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a scaled-down model.

[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't as large as the one from the original, which was, I think, 11 or 12 feet.

[SPEAKER_05]: This one was about five and a half feet, but it was a model that they actually shot with motion control and [SPEAKER_05]: did their normal.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was so great because they were using models on the Star Trek up until the very end of the series that it went so cool to like.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It looked great though.

[SPEAKER_03]: That model looked amazing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that was, you know, there was a dolly move over Dax's shoulder.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was started with her in the frame and then we pushed past her.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that was a no-no, and start an arch show, and on next generation, as I said, you always lock the camera down and not move a thing, and all of a sudden they say, I said, well, can't we, can't we dolly in?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's an accent moment, you know?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and Gary Hudson kind of went, oh, okay, we'll make it work.

[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, so we've made the dolly movement.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was the first for us.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's more expensive.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's more expensive to do the camera move because you have to match that on the model for the track.

[SPEAKER_06]: It focal length and the tracking and all of that.

[SPEAKER_06]: So that's why it was a no-no.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was just money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can I point out something that I saw that I really was tickled by before the enterprise shows up on the video screen?

[SPEAKER_00]: The video screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does all that stuff that was done?

[SPEAKER_00]: My generation was just to see when a channel went off the air.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think I'd ever seen that on a screen on our show before.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I went, yeah, that sort of tells me I'm going back in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're already back in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's 10 o'clock.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hold her in time.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember thinking, I know where I am.

[SPEAKER_02]: I sitting here watching TV.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know where a pair and so on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Was that a choice too?

[SPEAKER_00]: To give us that graphic of the channel going off the air?

[SPEAKER_05]: It was not my choice.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was probably a scary or scary, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: They kind of covered the move too.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you notice, it finally cleared up to the enterprise, just at the end of the dolling.

[SPEAKER_05]: didn't have to track it that much.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go back to the Cisco's office to the present time.

[SPEAKER_06]: We're back to our story.

[SPEAKER_06]: And one thing I loved in this scene was that we learned that James T.

Kirk was the biggest time violator of all.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was in separate temporal violations.

[SPEAKER_05]: that was a funny little detail and it also showed a little bit of what Cisco was all about in terms of his reverence or his interest in Kirk because when his name is mentioned you saw avery kind of light up light up there because he had already experienced something that that he was [SPEAKER_06]: our time police ask this is where they mentioned Friday by the way in this scene Dolmer says that man was a menace talking about Kirk what what was the date of your arrival Cisco gives him the date says 105 years one month and 12 days ago and Luxe says a Friday [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, Cisco says that the enterprises are orbiting one of the old deep space stations K7 near Klingon the Klingon border.

[SPEAKER_06]: So this goes back to the original episode where we talked about this Jonathan in our separate interview with you about the original.

[SPEAKER_06]: the original K7, K7, yeah, that was the original stations and we talked about I think Garrett, you and I talked about how in the in the windows of K7 and the original episode, you saw the model of the enterprise just like in multiple scenes, I don't know if you remember this Jonathan, in the original series, [SPEAKER_06]: You saw the model flying by slowly in the background.

[SPEAKER_06]: They must have hung it on like fishing line or something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was very funny.

[SPEAKER_05]: You think it was an actual model in the shot?

[SPEAKER_05]: It was at a visual effect.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think it was in the shot.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it was in the shot.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was really with the very old school.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I want to say what when they did show when you guys did show exterior shots of the Deespace case 7 station it looked really good It was actually has proved upon from what you see in the original series episode It looks so up really good and from different things later match, but it was more more detailed and fast Yeah, it wasn't for detail.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how long they worked on that before or afterwards.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean it had to [SPEAKER_06]: been weeks well we learn from Cisco after this cool shot of the original station that case seven station that inside the defiant the orb had been taken by Barry it's just a very very very very very very took it [SPEAKER_06]: We learned that someone's done the deputy and took the orb.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that was a cool shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: I thought, when you showed sort of where it was missing from there, it's like a, it was nice to cover that voice over there, Jonathan, I don't know if you remember that shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, give me, give me a quick clue.

[SPEAKER_06]: What was the shot of?

[SPEAKER_06]: It was like, it was where the orb had been taken from, and you, you kind of saw, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was like a montage, you kind of piece.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: But, um, [SPEAKER_06]: At least on Voyager, we didn't often do a lot of montages, so it was nice to have that opportunity just visually to tell a story there.

[SPEAKER_05]: We did a couple of many montages on that, yeah, another episode, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have another question, slightly sticky, so in that in that montage, we have [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what she pregnant?

[SPEAKER_03]: She would she pregnant in this episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like protocol.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was supposed to be pregnant though.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was supposed to be pregnant.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they weren't hiding it.

[SPEAKER_00]: She was not.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a uniform.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's one or two shots where you can see.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's very pregnant.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot of shots where you don't.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, did you do you remember did you try to minimize that those kind of wider shots or no not a big as long as it was in the script it was all you know all fair Yeah, that's seeing that you were referring to was that though that's the one where you start on the the crew member that was on the on the floor.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, some floor.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just I just a quick note.

[SPEAKER_05]: I decided to do that as one shot if you notice.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I started there and then we pushed pull in and then we saw [SPEAKER_05]: something else and then.

[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody's taking it or about.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then we go to Kira.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it was designed as one shot because I didn't have time to split it up.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I said, well, let's see what we can choreograph.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was beautiful.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Just exactly how it is.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's great.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go to the mess hall in the defiant next.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's Warf, Dax, Otto, Brian talking.

[SPEAKER_06]: We learned that Barry was a [SPEAKER_06]: Um, and he was really named Darwin back in this, the, the, the time, you know, the, yeah, that was his fake human name, though.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yeah, and, uh, he was the bad guy that tried to poison the grain, uh, that was going to go to the colonies.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it started, starts tying into the triples episode, uh, we start to realize what this whole [SPEAKER_06]: You know, banished or whatever.

[SPEAKER_06]: He was, he was just shamed.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exiled basically.

[SPEAKER_03]: They got from the Klingon Empire.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he just leaked out this living as a human merchant.

[SPEAKER_03]: But this is something I didn't realize, Robbie, that Klingon's lived a long time.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was over a hundred years ago.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was, why?

[SPEAKER_06]: They're like, Vulcan's Vulcan's Vulcan's Vulcan's Vulcan's Vulcan's forever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_06]: But he wants to go back to that time on K7.

[SPEAKER_06]: and alter history and maybe even kill Kirk.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's Dax is the one who comes up with that.

[SPEAKER_03]: That she picks up right, she goes, maybe he could be planning to kill Kirk, which is right on the money, so job Dax.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was great.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that brought that story point around and it provided the motivation for the antagonist.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we're gonna stop this.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's important.

[SPEAKER_05]: We gotta move on.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was really well written and well played by all of you and really well directed Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like the clarity of these stories coming together was never in doubt.

[SPEAKER_06]: You always oriented and you knew where you were.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it was in the script.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was in the script for sure.

[SPEAKER_06]: Very well written.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, they decide they've got to stop Darwin, they can't change history, and they don't know where he beam to because he wiped out the transporter logs before he beamed out.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's either going to be on the enterprise, the old enterprise, or on K7 that station, so they split up to search for him, and they don't want to arouse any suspicion or alter anything in the timeline that's very important.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I like how Cisco says the last thing I want is a visit from the temporal investigations when we get home.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we know they've already shown up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then the fun starts.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: And another montage here.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is where everybody's changing.

[SPEAKER_06]: We see, uh, DAX is taking her spots off.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's DAX.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and that's why I have to ask Terry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, when I watch, I thought, is that DAX doing that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that Bashir here?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, taking the dots off here.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he's being done.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, maybe, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought the only one capable of doing that is be sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: The hands that I saw looked more like Kathy DeBono's hands than my hands.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it could be somebody else.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't think it was Terry doing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I thought I thought, I thought, sometimes it's a really bother me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I really wanted to do the things that were, because there was something in the first season where somebody had fingernails.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, I'm a scientist.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have fingernails.

[SPEAKER_00]: What the hell?

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know what I mean.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know from acting class and everything get really like you want to own every year your own business, yeah, but then you just the machine that is doing an action drama you just have to let that go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, not my hands.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the fact that it was a visual effect shot also because you had it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think we have to do it twice one with and when without news.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So Terry was Kathy DeBono your normal hand model.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, she was Terry standing there.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you're standing, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So they wasn't her hands with the nails.

[SPEAKER_02]: See that she wasn't working on deep space at that time.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the truth is your stand and does a lot of stuff for you when they have to send you home because of a nine and a half hour turnaround.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's more important for me to get back to work than is for me to stay for those little things.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't remember did Kathy have to wear your spots to at the times where they ever over probably over her shoulder.

[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe I don't remember that specifically.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't either.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I mean, she was your wife for a long time ago.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like you said, Jonathan, it could have been two different shots put together for that visual effect of the spots coming off.

[SPEAKER_06]: It could have been a shot of Terry and then maybe hands in front of green or shot separately, you know, because because if the hands drew your attention, um, armen then maybe that's why, maybe because it didn't draw my attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just, it, it, it, it peaked my interest that I didn't think the decks could do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: story could do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought since we have a doctor on board that the doctor would be doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it turns out it was it was Kathy de Bono.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we don't know for sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just guessing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Carmen, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't even know who did it when we shot, whether it was a visual.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's the director.

[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I thought I just put makeup on them so that, so I don't remember.

[SPEAKER_02]: I must have blanked when that shot happened.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just remember seeing her go up and thinking, I don't think that's my hair.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, yeah, maybe.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's almost like the role kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: Here's my comment about the whole montage, Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_06]: I loved your shots, I loved the sequence of all of them, but I didn't like the music, the score.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was very sort of regal, and it was, and I felt like the way that you shot it, the way the actors had been playing the episode so far, there was a sense of fun, it felt like a romp, and I wish the music had been a little more like, here we go, it's gonna be fun, and instead it was this sort of, [SPEAKER_06]: drominous regal.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I didn't like the match of the music.

[SPEAKER_05]: I wish I would have had some input.

[SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, that happened way after I was, I was probably three episodes later.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: And why not have some more of the actual 60s version, a little more of the 60s sound.

[SPEAKER_03]: That would have been fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And to your point, Robbie, this is a quote from Ronald E.

Moore, he commented my only real gripe about this episode was the music.

[SPEAKER_03]: I had hoped it would be more like the original score.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it hurt the show, particularly during the bar room brawl by changing it to this other type of music.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he completely, the same way that you did.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the scene changes because of the music.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this was another experiment.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a Ron Moore that said this [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Rick has to approve the music, doesn't he?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and I mean, he's executive producer.

[SPEAKER_06]: Usually the way that, and Jonathan correct me from wrong, but on on Star Trek shows, they would use old library as temporary placeholders.

[SPEAKER_06]: So the editors would pick some old score from previous episodes and they'd put it in there as a placeholder and then the composer would come in and listen to what the editor put in and try to match that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so there's a couple of places where you could go off the rails in my opinion because the editor may be putting something in if the showrunner doesn't call it out and say nope, that music is wrong, even though you're going to replace it.

[SPEAKER_06]: don't put that as a placeholder because we don't want it to sound like that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want them to misunderstand.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're just a placeholder.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And if they don't do that in the editing process, then when the composer gets it, they're just kind of matching, they're writing something new, but it's based on the tone that they've been given by the editor.

[SPEAKER_06]: So that should have been covered with a spotting session.

[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly, exactly.

[SPEAKER_05]: Spotting session, meaning to people up there, and they go through the whole episode and decide what needs music and what style of music and that way the composer knows where he's headed.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, usually a spotting session involves the post-production coordinator, the editor, the composer, [SPEAKER_06]: the showrunner or the showrunners representative and they will sit and make sure that everyone agrees that yes this suggestion we want to stay like this or we don't like this suggestion can you do something different?

[SPEAKER_02]: Did they have time to do all of those steps you're just mentioning during their what-of-treks shows?

[SPEAKER_05]: They would have done their job.

[SPEAKER_05]: We had full orchestras for our start.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean scoring sessions.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was unbelievable.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wish I could have seen that.

[SPEAKER_06]: That stage doesn't exist anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's gone.

[SPEAKER_06]: Star Trek was one of the last shows that used that scoring stage.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's sad.

[SPEAKER_06]: I know there's very few scoring stages in Hollywood now.

[SPEAKER_06]: Fox has one Sony has one and Warner Brothers.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Terry, when we did that thing where you were changing into the outfits, it was an excitement there in your character that was expecting something, what can you expect on that?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I just, I, this was what I played when I was in elementary school.

[SPEAKER_02]: We watched our track and we had chestnut trees in the back where we had our playground and we had a playground and then we had this kind of woods area that we could play in and we would scoop the leaves together to make the enterprise.

[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I wish I think his name was Grant, he was, I was the tallest kid in school and he was the shortest and he was Captain Kirk and I was always, I was the alien from another planet.

[SPEAKER_02]: So when I had to put the uniform in everything on, it was like this magical dream come true for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: woman body getting to be on Star Trek and oh my god, I'm on Star Trek, but I'm getting to do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: How I fell in love with the show and I remember coming out.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is how I remember it anyway.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember coming out and showing John's in my outfit and I turned.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, look, I was like, so excited.

[SPEAKER_02]: He goes, do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did I remember that, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and it worked for Dax, it worked for Dax, she's remembering her past, she says it later on, she says I love this period, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was the easiest episode ever for me because I just got to be a kid in the candy store, playing dress up, playing pretend, and it was so much fun.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then she or buttons the scene, I think I'm going to like history.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and when we were less.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, when he sees it.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was a alarmingly short.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it was a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they did have funder pants.

[SPEAKER_02]: We had black, special black underpants to wear.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually almost knocked, I had go-go boots on.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when I left my trailer the first time I forgot about my beehive.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I, the door frame stopped.

[SPEAKER_02]: My hair stopped me and then I was, yeah, it was crazy.

[SPEAKER_06]: I also like how Bashir got a little call back to the original series in the scene when a Brian says, do you know anything about this time period in Bashir goes, I'm a doctor, not a historian.

[SPEAKER_06]: I know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not a historian.

[SPEAKER_02]: Written so, it was so, the details, the devil in the details, they had all the details.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just beautiful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Forgive me said forgive me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I caught that as well, and I thought I don't think Sid knows the reference Really?

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow, oh, maybe I think it was just underplaying it I just said it and I thought we might not have I don't think he knew he might maybe it's better that he didn't [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, Jonathan, you were there and it was a long time ago, but I've watched it and I went, I don't think, I thought, I thought the same thing, Armin, because, well, yeah, because just because of watching the original series as a kid, there was a specific way that a bones would say stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I never expressed it to a sit, to say it really.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because if [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would have, I think, because that's such a nod to the original show, almost the entire episode, so that I just got the feeling he just didn't, he did it fine, he did it, you know, Jonathan's earlier, he wanted to be real, it was real, it was absolutely real, it was so fault in the acting, but I just thought the actor doesn't understand the reference.

[SPEAKER_06]: aware of the irony of the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so you know Jonathan, I've heard, I've heard this about my friend, Arman Shimmerman.

[SPEAKER_02]: He is the nitpick king.

[SPEAKER_03]: The nitpick king is here.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not personal.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, I'm gonna say something later too, but it's not personal.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just the the things that we all notice right Yeah, I do want to say Terry.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for sharing that story about your childhood about how you made the enterprise out of leaves and now I know if there's any a time that you're feeling blue I'm gonna show up at your house and make an enterprise out of leaves and friends [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you can play Enterprise.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I want to thank Jonathan for setting me up on that one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Here you go.

[SPEAKER_02]: This was the big deal for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, the next scene we go in the Transporter Bay, we learn in the scene that they can de-cloke for three seconds only.

[SPEAKER_06]: And they have to avoid contact with people or changing the timeline.

[SPEAKER_06]: And this is where they're splitting up.

[SPEAKER_06]: So they're going to go to the station, look in the storage areas.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can see an enterprise corridor note.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dax and Cisco come out of turbo lift seven to a busy corridor and all capital letters Terry in heels is the tallest one in the whole way.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's my note.

[SPEAKER_06]: I made a note.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Dax and Cisco come out the trouble.

[SPEAKER_06]: And as you see them walking away from us, literally Terry is like a foot taller.

[SPEAKER_06]: If she's got heels on, which she normally doesn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I had the flat issues and starfleet for what?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's flat as mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not as flat as mine.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_06]: and you literally were a foot taller than everybody else.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know, but didn't I look good?

[SPEAKER_06]: You look great.

[SPEAKER_03]: But you couldn't clear a door frame.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's the only thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I could not.

[SPEAKER_03]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: I could not.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I had, but I had, at least I had cushion.

[SPEAKER_02]: Generally, when I hit, because I would walk through those doors, and I don't know why, like, I'd step on the, the thrill.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I hit my head and the guys would go, watch your head, Terry.

[SPEAKER_05]: Watch your head.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a little late.

[SPEAKER_05]: Have a turn.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what was funny, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, as before you appeared in the hallway as you were stepping on to the transporter.

[SPEAKER_05]: the scene and you said about robby that everybody was breaking apart going off at the end that scene there's a line in the script and we shot it and there's another angle that never got used just as you are splitting up and going towards the transport of uh...

dacces to uh...

michael dorn nice hat [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there, it's not in there [SPEAKER_03]: Remember when they came out of the hall deck?

[SPEAKER_03]: It was just in Kira, but they were worried that night.

[SPEAKER_03]: He told, yeah, nice hat.

[SPEAKER_03]: Same comment, but yeah, very funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe that's why they didn't make the movie.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they were like, we already talked about that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, yes, after Terry's the tallest one in the cast, we go to the Enterprise and Bashir and O'Brien beam into it inside a turbo lift over there.

[SPEAKER_06]: Miles tries to talk to the computer.

[SPEAKER_06]: it's not listening.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says deck 21, deck 21.

[SPEAKER_06]: I said deck 21.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nothing's happening then a woman enters.

[SPEAKER_06]: She grabs the handle and they realize, oh yes that's what you got to do.

[SPEAKER_06]: And she's going to deck 15.

[SPEAKER_06]: and so they grabbed the handles as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love that little detail of the original series, the difference between old tech and the new tech.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was D-DRA.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was D-DRA, that was D-DRA, that was D-DRA, that's D-DRA.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, that was great.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was beautiful too.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wow, the period was perfect for her.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you got it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And all of those sets were built on stage 11, by the way, in case anybody wants to know [SPEAKER_02]: No, well, I was just thinking, Armin and I were both in Taekhonda Roga this summer and I remember being on the set and it felt the same as going to Taekhonda Roga and just being in it, being on the enterprise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what, what Terry is alluding to it, if we give me Terry, but no, help me out.

[SPEAKER_00]: A Taekhonda Roga, they have replicated the original shows sets.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we were working on and that's what Terry's referring to.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they put them together in such a way that it makes you, [SPEAKER_02]: There's, there's no interruption of a set.

[SPEAKER_02]: The set is connected to you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's continued.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's continued.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, continue.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you feel like, wow, this must be how it feels to be on the enterprise.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's really extraordinary.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's very interesting, because we didn't have that.

[SPEAKER_05]: We had pieces.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: As a matter of fact, there was a, I think it's the scene when you and Cisco, I don't know, it's the previous one, but you and Cisco walk in.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if you look out the door, you're walking into a turbo lift, you look out the hallway and the hallway is curving to the right.

[SPEAKER_05]: You do your scene and as you exit, they changed it.

[SPEAKER_05]: We move the turbo lift because the background is now moving to the hallway, it's not going that way.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that kind of detail, it just goes past you as you're watching the show, but we actually physically had to move the turbo lift in the middle of shooting your scene in there to be able to open the doors again for you to leave into another level.

[SPEAKER_05]: Another deck.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we go out into a quarter on the enterprise, Dax and Cisco are searching and they find this communication juncture and Cisco says he's going to pretend to repair it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Dax is just in awe of all this technology that she has to love.

[SPEAKER_03]: because she's used that same tech in a prior life.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, oh, I had one of these.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is my homage to the nitpick, this is my homage to the nitpick king, Armin.

[SPEAKER_03]: In the shot where Terry is, Dax is actually touching the scan or scanner.

[SPEAKER_03]: Those are not her hands there.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know that's, I was like, that's her hands.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was Hank those look like Kathy's hands not mine her hands are we're bigger than mine [SPEAKER_03]: They just didn't look at your care hands and I then that's what I wanted to ask you if those were probably not yours, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: That insert and my hand.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in reference to the Shrike owner, because I I'd heard this and I just want people to know this, they had to scramble the prop department had to scramble really hard to find these props from that time in that show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, not just that they went into the back room, they had to find these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they did make things.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, they're all of it was gone.

[SPEAKER_06]: It surprised the Paramount didn't own many of that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a little shocking.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was a long time before, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And they probably sold it off to men.

[SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like the costumes just, they weren't around anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: They had to watch the old episode to recreate.

[SPEAKER_05]: Everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: The console.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: The consoles.

[SPEAKER_02]: Even the braiding around.

[SPEAKER_02]: They could only look at what it was on the TV show and then try to find the exact match.

[SPEAKER_02]: But now from old uniforms.

[SPEAKER_03]: So everybody eyeballed it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody eyeballed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody eyeballed it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_06]: I have a question for you about the original footage.

[SPEAKER_06]: So my memory watching Star Trek on television.

[SPEAKER_06]: Is it looked a little grainy or it looked a little.

[SPEAKER_06]: like this footage, whatever you did with film stock changes and lighting and all that, the original series look better than I've ever seen it.

[SPEAKER_06]: It looked really sharp and really copied.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know why Robby?

[SPEAKER_05]: We weren't working from tapes or old footage.

[SPEAKER_05]: We went to the negatives.

[SPEAKER_05]: Went to the original negatives they found and transferred those to digital digital digital digital digital digital digital.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you can tell in this episode because all the Kirk scenes, all the spots seen, all that stuff looked better than I've ever seen.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, crystal clear.

[SPEAKER_06]: Christine.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And consequently, we were able to match those colors with our, with our footage a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's true because that's why it looked so good.

[SPEAKER_05]: Good work.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you win any awards?

[SPEAKER_05]: Did I win any awards?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, for this episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: There were no, there were nominations in multiple departments, but no awards were one.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we were nominated for a Hugo Award.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Good.

[SPEAKER_05]: The science fiction award.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but we lost it to a big feature film that Jack Nicholson was in.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't remember the name of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, he's staying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he has been celebrated enough.

[SPEAKER_03]: The tripals was nominated.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of the awards at this episode was nominated for Robbie.

[SPEAKER_03]: They were beat out by a Voyager episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just want congratulations to you guys.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no, you should have won.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a great.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is great.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is the episode fair trade, which I don't think is a really good Voyager episode at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm shocked at that one beat out this episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if it was makeup or something, because of all the pharyngees, maybe, or something like that.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know what, you have to nominate it.

[SPEAKER_05]: You have to enter the nomination process in order to get nominated.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, so that's true, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: I went years without putting up a show for anything that I did.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, the next scene is in the K-7 bar and I will reiterate the K-7 bar scenes from the original footage looked phenomenal.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, wait, did they reshoot?

[SPEAKER_06]: How did they do this?

[SPEAKER_06]: Because it looks so much better than I've ever seen the original series.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, now we know why.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and they built quite a bit of a set.

[SPEAKER_05]: They didn't build the bar, but they built the big windows and they built [SPEAKER_05]: like the entrance.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the entrance and the way the guys were seated.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, it was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, Odo comes in.

[SPEAKER_06]: He finds an empty table and starts using a bejorn tricorder here.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would be careful pulling up a jor in tecodo in the middle of the bar and then we see check off in a hurrah come by and they head to the bar and [SPEAKER_06]: And then Otto wants to order a rack to gene at home.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the waitress is like, I don't know what that is.

[SPEAKER_06]: She says, she says, some other guy came in about an hour ago and ordered the same thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he said, he'd be back soon.

[SPEAKER_06]: So this is the scene where we see our first inner cut between old footage and the stuff that you shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[SPEAKER_06]: And as we said, it's just done so elegantly and good.

[SPEAKER_05]: Herman's production designer and art department were quite good at matching just about everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, look at the furniture.

[SPEAKER_05]: Look at the chairs, the 60s chairs and tables match exactly.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what you're going to find those things, you know.

[SPEAKER_05]: was just just well done.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we planned those shots ahead of time.

[SPEAKER_05]: You would have to.

[SPEAKER_05]: We knew that Odo was going to be in front of a green screen or a blue screen.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember if it was a blue or green at that point on him.

[SPEAKER_05]: But when they walked by and when O'er had walked by, that was a tail end of a scene that they had with Kirk.

[SPEAKER_05]: that they just used the cross in order to see Odo there.

[SPEAKER_05]: But he was on a green screen and they just met, you know, lined him up and met it then.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Kudos to you, Jonathan, the framing of the shot was nostalgic as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: Usually we're a lot tighter on our actors, our characters.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this was a rather large theatrical sort of framing.

[SPEAKER_00]: where you could see everything, and it fit into the old show's modus operandi really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, good for you Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not only shooting the show, but you're giving respect to what it'd come before.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: hence the word tribute, I guess.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes!

[SPEAKER_06]: I wonder Jonathan, you know, because you knew you were going back in time to an original episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you look at the framing to Armin's point?

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you kind of consciously use different lenses and different kind of framing sizes?

[SPEAKER_06]: Not just for the scenes where you had to match to old footage, but even the scenes that lived on their own that you were shooting.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you try to shoot it in all of those scenes in the style of the original series?

[SPEAKER_05]: We made a grand attempt, I mean, between the lighting and the collection design and the choice of lenses, camera placement, you know, so many times on our show, deep space normally, we would use either longer lenses or we'd have higher or lower angles and stuff, but the start track of the past seemed to all be at eye level, or just maybe below eye level.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think it was very effective.

[SPEAKER_06]: You felt that we felt as I watched it like I had gone back in time, back into that original series.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it could have been so much worse if they hadn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you hadn't done that, it would have, it would not have worked at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: What makes this work is the subtlety that the audience doesn't realize they're being involved in, that all those tribulations that you went through, um, of Peter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to create the fourth wall, it's meshing with the one from the sixties.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just, the seamless, seamless as it was our attempt.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not only in the visuals, but in the performance levels and in the tone of the show, we tried to match the triple show.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think you achieved that.

[SPEAKER_06]: The end of this scene, we see our first trebles or her comments on how cute they are.

[SPEAKER_06]: She wants to hold it.

[SPEAKER_06]: What is it she says?

[SPEAKER_03]: here currently in the Enterprise Corridor.

[SPEAKER_03]: O'Brien has a panel open and he's looking at it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this, everything is, it's Greek to him.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, what is going on?

[SPEAKER_03]: Everything is just cross-circuited.

[SPEAKER_03]: It just looks like a, nothing that he's used to at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's 100 years, it's tech from 100 years ago, basically.

[SPEAKER_03]: And also, we have Bashir there who is scanning to see if he can find Darwin with his little medical tri-coder.

[SPEAKER_03]: And as they're looking at what's going on inside of this panel, that's when Charlie Chun, Charlie Chun shows up the engineer and he's like, wait a minute, I'm supposed to be working on this area.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got, Scottie told me to do this.

[SPEAKER_03]: What are you guys doing here?

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: But sheer is sitting there just himming and high.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, you know, making up any type of story he can come up with.

[SPEAKER_03]: But basically at the very end, we find out that they pass all the work on to our engineer to finish up and they exit the scene.

[SPEAKER_03]: Saying that O'Brien is sick and he doesn't feel very good.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so the last thing we have is.

[SPEAKER_03]: is the engineer saying no problem, hope you feel better, which is a good idea.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so glad he said that that was really sweet.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was.

[SPEAKER_06]: I thought Sid did a great job of kind of vamping a bit and going on.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm just studying him as he works.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, he has some problems.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then, of course, Miles is completely clueless.

[SPEAKER_06]: Which fits Bishir's story of yeah, he's been having some trouble.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why it was great And I those cute one no Brian tries to do something and puts his lights in and that You think I'm maybe I don't want to do that [SPEAKER_03]: All the lights go off in the corridor.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oops, very funny.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and that was like two shots, two setups.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe a little tighter at one point, but it was a relatively easy one to shoot.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because he was all about the interaction between us.

[SPEAKER_03]: Did you give Charlie any acting instructions there?

[SPEAKER_03]: Did he come ready to go with his?

[SPEAKER_03]: He was ready to go.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: OK.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we go back to the bar, uh, worth enters, finds Odo and, uh, Odo reveals a triple from his lap.

[SPEAKER_03]: Robbie, isn't this seen in homage to when we watch the original episode of of spock being all mesmerized.

[SPEAKER_03]: Remember that like he's all mesmerized by the triple.

[SPEAKER_03]: And now Odo is playing the same role in this scene.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Great wide angle lens on that triple shot, but thanks.

[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, again, it was just trying to match the feeling and getting it.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that people wouldn't say, oh, that was shot then.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no, this is shot before, you know, everybody else felt like a uniform and, you know, cohesive story, even though you were having a matched old footage at all fit together.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, good.

[SPEAKER_06]: We come back, Warf is disgusted by this tribal.

[SPEAKER_06]: He finds it just completely reprehensible.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says, we learn that triples were the mortal enemies of the claim on empire, which wow, you never would have thought the triples could have caused them that much trouble.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they are dramatic.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: We learned there, and they were an ecological menace to the claim on people, and the claim on's obliterated the tribal homeworld.

[SPEAKER_06]: went to war with the triples and destroyed them all.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love Odo's responses here.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[SPEAKER_06]: Another glorious chapter of playing on history.

[SPEAKER_06]: Tell me, did they sing songs?

[SPEAKER_06]: Still sing songs of the great triple hunt.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's poor little thing in his hands.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was a fun little baby bunny.

[SPEAKER_05]: Robby, you nailed the scene right there.

[SPEAKER_05]: No comment.

[SPEAKER_05]: No comment there.

[SPEAKER_06]: There is a red alert at the end of the scene.

[SPEAKER_06]: We cut out to the corridor to Dax and Cisco.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it alarms here and Cisco says, Dax is like, what do we do?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, get to battle stations.

[SPEAKER_06]: What a readily.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where are they?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is this where David Gerald crosses camera here?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is this the Red Alert scene?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think it is.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he opens the scene coming down the hall.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then as he passes, we lock onto the two of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Robby, just going back to that final line of Odo, tell me do they sing songs of the Great Tribal Hunt.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now I just started thinking about Star Trek, the musical.

[SPEAKER_03]: That could be one of the numbers.

[SPEAKER_01]: That could be one of the numbers.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Great Hunter course sent.

[SPEAKER_01]: They start singing about the Great Triba.

[SPEAKER_03]: It'd be really, really fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: Are you working on that?

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to work.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Robby.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Robby.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the Delta Flyers presents Star Trek, the musical.

[SPEAKER_03]: Star Trek Broadway.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my word.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to start voice lessons tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go to the turbo lift and Cisco and DAX enter the turbo lift.

[SPEAKER_06]: He stops it though.

[SPEAKER_06]: He tries his combat starts to try his combat I like this moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wait a minute pulls out a communicator calls the defiant Kira says that the it's a cling-on-ship approaching.

[SPEAKER_06]: It is the iKS graph and DAX knows this ship [SPEAKER_06]: It's Coloth ship.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's the boss of that ship and that stacks his old friend and she's very excited.

[SPEAKER_06]: She remembers Coloth telling her this story.

[SPEAKER_06]: So again, this the old episode is coming together with our characters.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love this that they can use DAX who's had these multiple lifetimes to somehow have dovetailed with that original episode because of her friendship with Coloth.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we've already had the, uh, blood oath where I've talked all of those, those three clingsons into.

[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, Terry, when you suggest that you go meet him, just go, uh, I don't know about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, he's not going to recognize me.

[SPEAKER_06]: But the napkin, if you're not, if you're not taller than me, he's not taller than me.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is not taller than me.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is not taller than me.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is not taller than you.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is my job through the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: to be like I want to like in my poem I want to go say hi I want to I want to be in it and I can't be in it.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's some of my notes Terry that you wanted the adventure and Cisco's on the job he's on a mission and he can't allow that to happen because it might change the future.

[SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's so true.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I think what's nice is the Cisco is kinder and more jovial than he normally is about stopping me from these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very sweet energy that the two of us are dynamic.

[SPEAKER_02]: The two of us have together.

[SPEAKER_02]: Look, he's my big brother going, Terry.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and that's the scene, by the way, that has the different hallways.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the one I was referring to.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, thank you for talking about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'll be beginning at the end, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So somewhere along the line, we split that scene up and moved everything to another hall.

[SPEAKER_03]: Carmen, were you going to say something?

[SPEAKER_00]: Just me being a f*** off.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can cut that out if you're like, but I don't think you should.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't recognize Cisco in this episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Interesting because of that likeness because he was just kind of washbuckling.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, you probably didn't get to encounter him with that part of his personality, either.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I feel like my character kind of got some of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it may, but I've watched enough of the episodes to know what he did.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there was, there was something about his performance and went, that's avery, but that's not Cisco to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_05]: I agree with you, Arman.

[SPEAKER_05]: I felt that way too, and yet, with it, because of the circumstances, and I, I justified it in my head, that Cisco was enthralled with the idea of meeting Kirk eventually.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we'll talk about that at the end.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he found he found there's something Intersting to he felt magical about the he had to stop me, but he was probably just as curious and excited as I was He just had to be the person that stayed in control because obviously I was not right.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's the reality check.

[SPEAKER_05]: You're the dreamer [SPEAKER_05]: but your right arm and it was a change was different.

[SPEAKER_05]: It did feel good.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right, next scene is in the enterprise corridor here it tells Miles and Bashir to beam in three minutes.

[SPEAKER_06]: The next band, band shift of the enterprise can cycle being three minutes.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so they'll be ready to go and beam over to the station.

[SPEAKER_00]: Dax wants to beam over.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cisco says no, not good idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he's instead sends Bashir and that's right.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he's going to send him over in three minutes when the, when the band shift happens.

[SPEAKER_06]: But she says, let's find a turbo lift to go get beamed from.

[SPEAKER_06]: They go to a turbo lift and it's the same woman as before.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wattley, I love this one.

[SPEAKER_06]: Very funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: She says that Bashir's flap is open.

[SPEAKER_06]: Which I thought was very funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was like, oh, I don't remember their pants having flats.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was my first thought.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was my quarter flap.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, me too.

[SPEAKER_06]: My quarter flap is open.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's going to drain the power.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's a little flirty here.

[SPEAKER_06]: She mentioned she's coming in for a physical at 1500.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then she turns around, her name is Lieutenant Wadley, so very flirty here with Bashir.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then Bashir, she leaves, and Bashir's like, wait, Wadley, that could be my great grandma.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was my great grandmother's name.

[SPEAKER_06]: And suddenly, his mind is feeling that maybe he's his own grandfather.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because she was giving him the eye, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: Miles says absolutely not, I don't even want to think about it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I wrote down me too, I don't want to think about it either.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a little disturbing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So he talks about a predestination paradox that he may be his own great, great grandfather.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, this whole energy of how Bashir is playing this was so similar to instances in my own life.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh my God, this is so me right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going crazy about something that some parent.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't control up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, some paradox.

[SPEAKER_03]: You have no control.

[SPEAKER_02]: But then when Bashir says, all right, fine, but it can't wait to get back to deep space nine and see your face when you find out that I never existed.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just like, yes, you don't let me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if you don't let me check this out, I may not exist.

[SPEAKER_06]: So you're going to lose your best friend.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's what he's trying to say.

[SPEAKER_03]: Love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: Very funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go to an enterprise corridor back with Cisco and DAX and they've resume their research when they see Kirk and Spock in the foreground.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is the shot you were talking about earlier.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, and yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: great integration of that old footage and stuff really gorgeous beautiful.

[SPEAKER_06]: I made a note have Jonathan explained these setups because they are so well done but you've talked about it a little bit and motion control camera for DAX in the background.

[SPEAKER_06]: Anything else you remember about integrating this this scene with the Kirk and Spock?

[SPEAKER_05]: I was [SPEAKER_05]: laughing at the fact that she liked Spock instead of Kirk.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, [SPEAKER_05]: a marvelous thing that Gary Hudson put together and managed to do all the optical work on optical printers, a film on film on film.

[SPEAKER_05]: This was one of the first times that they decided to go digital on everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: So everything we shot was transferred to digital tape and then worked in post-production as far as aligning the shots.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was done on a computer, basically.

[SPEAKER_06]: it's amazing that this was some of the first digital work they did and it is so good.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's better than some of the stuff we see on television now.

[SPEAKER_05]: It really is and they were led by a force company.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean that's the force company.

[SPEAKER_05]: Look is getting, you know, Tom Hanks and they're with President Kennedy and that was the inspiration for doing this kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's great.

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know that, but that's a, yeah, it's a great, it's a great detail that you bring up.

[SPEAKER_06]: I hadn't heard that, but you're right.

[SPEAKER_06]: For a skump was right around this 94.95, it had been a huge mega hit.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And everybody was talking about that movie.

[SPEAKER_05]: So for television to do that, it was a big deal because of.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was so expensive and time-consuming.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we did it in eight days.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder how long it took him to do Forest Gump.

[SPEAKER_05]: More than eight days.

[SPEAKER_02]: More than eight days.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Actually, we had a seven day schedule on this one.

[SPEAKER_02]: Seven days.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: But then there was a second unit for a day or two.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we cut to the K-7 bar, Bashir O'Brien joined Worf and Odo at the table.

[SPEAKER_06]: Various funny scene that intercuts lots of old footage in this scene.

[SPEAKER_00]: This must have been the hard one for you, Jonathan, that fight had to be the hardest thing I had to shoot.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have to admit, I did get some information prior to my prep time.

[SPEAKER_05]: So on our last interview, I said I had eight days of prep.

[SPEAKER_05]: I actually had almost a month to deal to work with this stuff on my own.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was given the sequences that we were going to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: And during that time, I didn't have a script yet, but I knew that we had to come up with a fight scene there.

[SPEAKER_05]: So once I did get the script, I realized that we had to have the action flowing from 1968 to now.

[SPEAKER_05]: Coming in and out.

[SPEAKER_05]: In and out of time.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then some of those were compounded like when O'Brien, [SPEAKER_05]: hits a particular guy.

[SPEAKER_05]: We did that in front of a green screen as opposed to our set.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we had the 1968 action going on in the background and our guys on the foreground trading punches.

[SPEAKER_05]: And on top of that, O'Brien had to pull back and we had another green screen of a chair going.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was brilliant.

[SPEAKER_05]: Brilliant.

[SPEAKER_05]: That kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: I put that together.

[SPEAKER_05]: But generally it was just trying to piece it so that it worked.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I think I made a note last time [SPEAKER_05]: When I saw the cut that the editor had done, he didn't do it in the order that I had envisioned it or shot it in.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we went back and re-cut that sequence pretty much from the get-go to make sure that it flowed from one moment to the next.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think of that scene as the crown jewel of this episode, it is just brilliant, it's just brilliant.

[SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, there are fight scenes that we do that we've seen and talked about that aren't nearly as complex and are not done as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: We've talked about this in episodes and this one was it really was outstanding.

[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't, it was one mismatch just before the fight started when Prishir first walks in is talking to them and then turns around to grab a chair and then he brings the chair back to the table.

[SPEAKER_05]: I did that so that the chair shot, he would come back into frame and [SPEAKER_05]: In the background, he was on a blue screen and in the background, you'd see other people entering behind him from the old show.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we needed to get him to make that move and come back with the chair in order to be able to cut to him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the cut didn't match.

[SPEAKER_05]: He picks up the chair and a wide shot with his hands down like this.

[SPEAKER_05]: And when you cut to him turning and being in his median close up, he's holding the chair like this.

[SPEAKER_03]: and it made the movie it made the world we did touch that so it was fine what was duty brown doing it drove me it first shoot it I said this is for another take no well when Robbie and I watched the original series episode [SPEAKER_03]: one of the comments that I made to Robbie was how funny it was right when the fight begins.

[SPEAKER_03]: The clingsons, the starfleet folk, everyone gets up and shows it.

[SPEAKER_03]: They stands up and they shove their seats backwards and you did the same thing with Sid.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sid does that when he stands up, he pushes that seat backwards just like in the original series.

[SPEAKER_03]: So flawless, it was great.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, good.

[SPEAKER_05]: We had our own old clingons in the background, too.

[SPEAKER_05]: They weren't from 1968.

[SPEAKER_05]: They were our guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: They were great.

[SPEAKER_02]: They were good.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was Madeline there, too.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, Madeline.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love the fact that O'Brien thinks he sees Kirk.

[SPEAKER_06]: He swears.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know what it was like.

[SPEAKER_02]: What's wrong with him?

[UNKNOWN]: Good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's that's good writing.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's good.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, isn't it?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's actually that actor.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: The one that he thinks is Kirk is has was used as shatners like stunt double and a lot of stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, that's we.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that was a better and funny, too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, to think of it that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: He this episode was amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I also like when Warf, you know, they realize that they say the clings on's over there order to direct a genome.

[SPEAKER_06]: Where's the cl- Where's the cl- Where's the cl- Where's the cl- Where's the cl- Where's the clings on?

[SPEAKER_06]: And then Warf says we can't talk about it.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a long story, what happened.

[SPEAKER_06]: Don't talk about it without side.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is my favorite word without side.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is my absolute favorite line in the episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: I believe I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a brilliant way to explain the difference.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Michael was so hard about the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was hilarious.

[SPEAKER_05]: Was he hot about it?

[SPEAKER_05]: Me and the upset about him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he didn't want to be there.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was just so funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was so mad about the scar.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the hat.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my God.

[SPEAKER_03]: And with the wage rights, great.

[SPEAKER_03]: The wage was very funny too, because when they, when they realize like, what clinging on's where?

[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, right there's like, what?

[SPEAKER_03]: That's when the wage rights is.

[SPEAKER_03]: You guys have had too much to drink.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're putting it off.

[SPEAKER_04]: The other is great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Odo does spot Darvan outside the door at the very end and he helps work finish off his part of the fight and they go out to get Darvan miles and Bashir are arrested by security at the end of this fight.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then we cut, I think, do we go to the captain's office?

[SPEAKER_06]: I think so, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh that line up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so happy I watched the original after I watched the first it just how you fit the guys in that line up with Captain Kirk.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's insane how staveless how did you do that?

[SPEAKER_06]: How did you do this?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, number one, we had the playback of the original.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then we had the two boys, the two guys on in front of a green screen.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we actually did a dolly move that tried to match it as well as we could.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then we did another one, oh yeah, we did the dolly move.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it wasn't in one shot, obviously.

[SPEAKER_05]: But there was a moment when Kirk comes in front of the camera and he's looking at miles.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then he moves on to the other character next to him, which was a check off.

[SPEAKER_05]: Check off, go over to check off, and you see Miles kind of go this way in the shot, and he's got a shadow on him from Kirk Shadow.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh [SPEAKER_05]: frame my frame.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's that's what you could do digitally then, you know, you could match it.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it wasn't like we had to have the timing exact on the set.

[SPEAKER_05]: We just had to get them in the right spots.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we did have the time it when everybody does a left turn and walks out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Our boys had to match the moment.

[SPEAKER_05]: with the rest of the guys in the line had to make a turn and then they had to cover the guys that were underneath the shot because our boys were put in front of two other characters from the original foot from the original.

[SPEAKER_05]: So Gary had to make sure he covered all of that movement or any shoulders.

[SPEAKER_05]: Nothing could pop out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_03]: Jonathan I just want to go back just very quickly to at the end of the bar scene the bar fight scene when Starfleet security comes in when you watch the original series episode you see you see a line of them run in there and they're all white spelt guys but the guy it's stopped all bright it's like a NFL line but he's like an NFL offensive tackle it was like that guy where they come from and [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you too cast that guy like I was probably mad a lot.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was a mad alone guy.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was mad a lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: So what about his buddies came in and this guy's massive.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've never seen a bigger human being on TV.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I didn't, again, I didn't question it because the decision had been made to say, yes, you know, I mean, he was, he wasn't a uniform.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not like they just brought him in at the last second.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So somebody upstairs said, oh, yeah, let's get the big guy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's get him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's some things you just have to work with.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, the end of our line-up scene, they all march out.

[SPEAKER_06]: Perk has confined them all to quarters, so they're dismissed.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we go out to a corridor, and Miles is commenting that Kirk spoke to him.

[SPEAKER_06]: He asked me a question.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's just amazed, and that's when Bashir steps on a triple on the floor, and then Miles looks around the corner, and there are dozens of them there that's when he's revealed to us.

[SPEAKER_05]: Whether it's revealed to us that they're starting to multiply.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go back to the Transporter Bay, Otto Worf, and the old Darwin are beamed in, and [SPEAKER_06]: Odunwarf have Darwin, but he's very confident in this scene.

[SPEAKER_06]: He thinks that he'll have a statue of himself in the Hall of Heroes, once his plan is put into motion.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he mentions here that Kirk's death will have a bit of poetic justice, and he laughs.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, Darwin has done something.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't know what yet.

[SPEAKER_05]: One thing I didn't, I missed that I think we could have done it.

[SPEAKER_05]: We never saw them actually catch or Darwin in the old ship.

[SPEAKER_05]: They see them in the hall and they see them in there in the next thing, you know?

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we cut away to the two guys, but then the next thing you know, they're in the transport room.

[SPEAKER_05]: back at the on the defiant.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought about it as time passing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it didn't work.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Same for me.

[SPEAKER_06]: Not a distraction.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's like you can't show every single some things you have to assume.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, even the next happened.

[SPEAKER_06]: Even the next scene we jumped to a corridor out of telling Cisco that there's a bomb in a trouble.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we know that whatever Darwin was referring to the poetic justice, we jump ahead in our story, and there's a bomb in a tribal, Darwin said that it's set to go off in an hour, we learn, and back in the corridor, Dax thinks that they need to get on the bridge, scan the entire ship with the internal sensors of the enterprise and Cisco agrees.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're going to have to go over.

[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't look like much faster.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_06]: And so they're going to go do that on the bridge while they send the rest of the team searching for this trouble that's got a bomb in it.

[SPEAKER_06]: We cut to Odo in the Transporter Bay saying, Worf is allergic.

[SPEAKER_06]: We'll send the rest of the team, but not Worf.

[SPEAKER_06]: Don't send [SPEAKER_06]: Because it seems he's allergic to dribbles.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's just goes like, he's allergic to dribbles.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: So Otto was sensitive enough to warps issue, but he didn't want to be little them.

[SPEAKER_02]: That was very nice of him.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was very nice of him.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is the new softer human solid.

[SPEAKER_02]: The softer side of Otto's side of Otto's side of Otto.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, we go back to the corridor and I like this funny bit of Dax listing her math thing of of how many troubles there are one Mary Spock like Exactly what Spock says it's later original later on same it's a number right yeah great set up Great minds She actually she actually she actually deduced that herself or did she know it other information from the past [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I think she must just deduce.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think she, yeah, that's how smart she is.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: She can math.

[SPEAKER_03]: She knows how to math.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's good.

[SPEAKER_02]: She knows how to math.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, I could not do that for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I know that's good to do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not in my skill set.

[SPEAKER_06]: I did like Avery's, thank you, at the end of that.

[SPEAKER_06]: If anyone gets her off.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they can be off.

[SPEAKER_06]: She said, that's starting with one trouble with an average litter of 10 every 12 hours after three days.

[SPEAKER_06]: He goes, thank you.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're a little bit more math.

[SPEAKER_02]: And when you watch the original, Spock explains the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying exactly his lines.

[SPEAKER_06]: Were you aware of that when you found the scene?

[SPEAKER_02]: No, because also, I don't think we could pull the old show up.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not like we can't stand home.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we have a computer that's.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I saw the old show.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I saw it on tape.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's possible.

[SPEAKER_02]: You probably did.

[SPEAKER_02]: One of those great videos.

[SPEAKER_02]: You had to see it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remembered the episode from seeing it as a kid over and over again, but not it didn't matter.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you play?

[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't really matter because I was already a fan, I already knew it, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_06]: Terry, did you build your spaceship out of leaves and play the troubles episode?

[SPEAKER_02]: I did.

[SPEAKER_06]: I did.

[SPEAKER_06]: Good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: Speaking of the original, we go to the Enterprise Bridge.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is that scene you were talking about before, Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_06]: Great integration of the old and the new footage.

[SPEAKER_06]: I wrote down, you know, was this a set extension?

[SPEAKER_06]: Was it all green?

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, what do you remember about this?

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, we, we, they built part of the front doors and they also did the, uh, where Cisco was sitting and Terry was, uh, behind him.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was the side of the building next to the kind of cutaway to the side of the building.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: They, they, that, that's yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was built.

[SPEAKER_05]: That, as opposed to the green screen when Terry was walking behind, uh, Kirk.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was all green screen.

[SPEAKER_05]: and we use the original footage on that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, they both quite a bit of it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was impressed with the look.

[SPEAKER_05]: It had the same dimensions, the same color.

[SPEAKER_00]: In your Bible, John was cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there any mention of how much this episode cost?

[SPEAKER_05]: I never never got to break down.

[SPEAKER_05]: They just said it cost a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, maybe in actual $400,000 for visual effects and I read somewhere this was the most expensive to date at this point That the DS9 episode or any track episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: I would guess any track episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was the visual effects.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah [SPEAKER_05]: You know, every time they cut to a blue screen, even it was the same angle.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was intercut with a scene.

[SPEAKER_05]: Every time they would cut to that angle, it was a separate deal.

[SPEAKER_05]: They didn't just do the green screen or blue screen on the entire take and then cut it up.

[SPEAKER_05]: Every time they cut, it was a new shot that had a new price tag, a new price tag, a new price tag, a new price tag, a new price tag, a new price tag, a new price tag.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just didn't carry out.

[SPEAKER_05]: How come you did it that way?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because it's just the way we used to do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean that's how they still do it.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean when I work on shows every time you got a green screen cut they add them up and it's you know two grand five grand a shot even if it's a close up still even today.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes they'll do you a favor and they'll put something they'll they'll say hey if you cut this [SPEAKER_06]: Give it to us as one cut.

[SPEAKER_06]: We'll do it all as one price and you can cut it up later.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but it's always a negotiation, you know, I'm wondering if because of the cost of all of that is why they made it a seven day shoot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am flabbergasted that was a seven day shoot because I remember eight day shoots.

[SPEAKER_00]: I only remember eight day shoots.

[SPEAKER_00]: I only remember eight day shoots.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's funny.

[SPEAKER_05]: I remember there were few eight-dissutes in me too.

[SPEAKER_00]: On my way to where we were from all being eight-dissutes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, maybe there are mostly your episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because we, we, we, a lot of things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Fairly, that would make sense why you would see it that way.

[SPEAKER_02]: And considering how many for Engay were usually with you when you were, that's a lot of hair and makeup.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm not hair.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not hair.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not hair.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am ended.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am ended.

[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't make up.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of time and perhaps I'm wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go back and look at I have some shooting schedules as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I always remember as eight, but maybe I'm wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe later in the run, we got a few extra eights in the beginning.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was that's why we work such long hours.

[SPEAKER_05]: How do you cram?

[SPEAKER_05]: eight and a half pages into one day, three times in an episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was wondering, so this Kirk calls for McCoy, Dr.

McCoy, and he comes up on the bridge.

[SPEAKER_06]: You had mentioned before, Garrett, that they had to make deals.

[SPEAKER_06]: It took them months to make deals with the actors.

[SPEAKER_06]: But was the force Kelly still alive?

[SPEAKER_06]: Is it state?

[SPEAKER_06]: Take it from the U.S.

Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Is it state?

[SPEAKER_00]: So they would have had to negotiate with his whoever his airs were right and his check off said they must have jacked up the price.

[SPEAKER_00]: Walter Walter.

[SPEAKER_00]: Walter Walter must have said, and I would imagine if Walter jacked up the price, you can imagine what the estate or [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Leonard and Adam does check.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if if if check off got eight times more Spock probably got 20 times more and then Kirk probably got 30 times more.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just Yeah, unless all those actors to the back together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's fortunate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's fun.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that's all the actors got together And de Forest Kelly was still alive.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just looked it up.

[SPEAKER_06]: He was still alive in 1999.

[SPEAKER_00]: But more than likely the [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in this scene, we do learn that DAX has already met McCoy.

[SPEAKER_03]: She has In fact, she met him.

[SPEAKER_03]: We was at Ole Miss.

[SPEAKER_03]: Did you catch that?

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, what?

[SPEAKER_03]: He went to Ole Miss.

[SPEAKER_03]: Robby's rivals, one of Robby's rival schools in the old.

[SPEAKER_03]: Robby's a big Georgia fan.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're an SEC team.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I did like that detail that he was from, you know, a classic Southern kind of college.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: It just fits to Forest Kelly.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Very much so.

[SPEAKER_06]: And by the way, the Forest Kelly is from Georgia.

[SPEAKER_06]: originally.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Really.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's from Tacoya, Georgia.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they should have said he went to that he was a bold university.

[SPEAKER_03]: He should have said that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they didn't.

[SPEAKER_03]: They did not.

[SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[SPEAKER_06]: But Dax met him at the university and she more than met him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be like.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got cozy with him.

[SPEAKER_06]: We got cozy.

[SPEAKER_06]: She knows he had the hands of a surgeon.

[SPEAKER_06]: She mentioned.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think that [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's all Cisco could take.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I did like Avery's reaction when you mentioned he had the hands of a surgeon.

[SPEAKER_06]: He never got to talk about his very funny reaction.

[SPEAKER_06]: Very funny.

[SPEAKER_06]: Did he play that on right arm?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, sir.

[SPEAKER_06]: He did.

[SPEAKER_03]: the end of the scene they basically realized the bomb is not a board the enterprise and acts as well must be somewhere on case seven.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: We do have a shot.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do we have a shot at this point of the case seven storage, grain storage area where we go through all the trouble, all the troubles, all the troubles and then slowly focuses in on one brown trouble.

[SPEAKER_03]: very similar to the one trouble that you showed us earlier at the beginning of this podcast.

[SPEAKER_03]: That is that.

[SPEAKER_03]: That may be the one.

[SPEAKER_03]: That may be the one.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do have a name for him.

[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a name for that?

[SPEAKER_05]: No, you can name him for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my goodness.

[SPEAKER_05]: I did talk to Chris today actually before this about that shot by a specific shot.

[SPEAKER_05]: He says hello to everybody by the way.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Chris.

[SPEAKER_04]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_05]: I said, Chris, what did we use?

[SPEAKER_05]: I know we had a under slun camera and you were the D.P.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we had a different operator.

[SPEAKER_05]: He wasn't on the camera doing that shot.

[SPEAKER_05]: What did we use?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because I think we had a [SPEAKER_05]: remote head, one of the early remote head cameras, and it was suspended underneath with a couple of risers on a regular stage crane, or one of those smaller cranes, and we just rented for the day.

[SPEAKER_05]: But low tech, you know, kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_05]: We just kind of dropped it down.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, he also said he thought that the set was built on a platform to allow us so different heights.

[SPEAKER_02]: So you weren't like hurting your backs.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: yeah it's it's the kind of shot you wouldn't you wouldn't assume if you're not a filmmaker that's a hard shot to do to to fly the camera overall of that stuff yeah and i think it was either a twenty one or fourteen millimeter lens looking straight down at the beginning as we go down the ladder and then it [SPEAKER_06]: And then make the turn and fly over close to the Tribbles.

[SPEAKER_06]: Great.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go through the K-7 bar next, Bashir, O'Brien, Odo are scanning all the Tribbles.

[SPEAKER_06]: No luck yet.

[SPEAKER_06]: Cisco says it's got to be here.

[SPEAKER_06]: He's in the turbo lift.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the problem is they're running out of time.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, because there's so many symbols and they're always reproducing.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they don't know what I want to say the day.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you did.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because it makes sense.

[SPEAKER_02]: He would put it where he would know Kirk would be.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: In the next half hour.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's got a half hour left.

[SPEAKER_06]: Dax and Cisco say they're going to stay close to Kirk.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go to the rec room and Kirk has ordered some soup, but there's triples in a soup and he's just had enough.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says he wants to meet him on K7 near the storage compartments and Kirk goes to beam down to K7 to the storage compartments and this is where Cisco overhears that.

[SPEAKER_06]: So he knows that's where they've got to be.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a quick nod to the original episode because in the original episode, it's Kirk that says storage compartments, storage compartment, he repeats the line again.

[SPEAKER_03]: And here, Cisco is the one that says storage compartment, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Storage compartments.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's a bit of a parallel here, too.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Remember that.

[SPEAKER_06]: Great integration.

[SPEAKER_06]: We cut to the storage compartments.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's the grain storage hopper Dax and Cisco climb down inside.

[SPEAKER_06]: They're searching.

[SPEAKER_06]: They only find some faint traces But how will they ever find which one is there?

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, we hear the sound of us of a locker being opened and we cut outside to the famous scene where Kirk is trying that the doors and he opens one and the tribals fall all over him and uh, [SPEAKER_03]: The best part of this scene, Robbie, is clearly after the most, after the the biggest part falls down now, and we talked about this There's intermittently a random triple will fall out and every cutaway, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: And they, they, you know, they would really have been because it's tax and Cisco going this ain't it Perfectly it was so funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was on genius idea.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh genius genius [SPEAKER_05]: The guys were great.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of issue I had with that entire thing is that we didn't have the same amount of triple colors, like in the original, they were mainly brown with a few whites turned in and then we cut up stairs inside the unit with DAX and Cisco.

[SPEAKER_05]: There weren't as many brown ones there were more white and gray and I said God went at film.

[SPEAKER_05]: They should have been the same color Yeah, I mean most people would notice cuz our guys were in the dark kind of yeah, but it bothered Why did me when we were shooting, but the prop guys said well, that's all we got John Pull us out though.

[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't pull us out.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think we're still locked in yeah [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't been nitpicked or didn't see that even the nitpicker missed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my goodness.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Did you blink?

[SPEAKER_06]: I love how dacks when she overhears Kirk or Spock.

[SPEAKER_06]: Sorry mentioning his math.

[SPEAKER_06]: It sort of looks just go very bloody and yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was a nice moment.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you guys found all that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That wasn't in the script.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's just the [SPEAKER_06]: It was great.

[SPEAKER_06]: Cisco eventually finds the one with the bomb inside of it.

[SPEAKER_06]: He calls Kira tells her to lock on to his tricorder, beaming in space.

[SPEAKER_06]: He puts the triple on top of the tricorder.

[SPEAKER_06]: It gets beamed out into space.

[SPEAKER_06]: This poor triple, very sad moment out of space, where the triple explodes.

[SPEAKER_05]: boom, that was Ralph's, I was standing, that wasn't this one.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you know, those were arms in the making of the show.

[SPEAKER_02]: Ralph's standing, so now he does have a name.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just named him.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just, Ralph.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel better now.

[SPEAKER_06]: I like it after the explosion, Dax is left with one trouble in her hand, and at the button of the scene, she tosses that trouble.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's another shot back to the trouble.

[SPEAKER_06]: very funny.

[SPEAKER_03]: So good.

[SPEAKER_06]: We go to the station managers office next and it's the classic scene where Darwin is busted.

[SPEAKER_06]: We cut back to the Orb cabin.

[SPEAKER_06]: Here opens the Orb case and figures out how to get them back in time.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Cisco narrates this says that Major Kira has discovered how to use the Orb to bring us back to our own time.

[SPEAKER_06]: And now we're back with Cisco for a moment.

[SPEAKER_06]: He says there's one [SPEAKER_06]: He did one thing before going home and we cut to the enterprise bridge and we see Cisco asking Kirk to sign the duty roster here and he says he's he's headed back but it's been an honor serving with him so I I loved that that [SPEAKER_03]: moment that the Cisco has with Kirk there more that that footage of what we just saw is not from the original series up from it yet it's from another original series up a mirror mirror mirror mirror yeah oh great this was my one nitpick [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco's head looks so tiny next to Kirk's.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't feel that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't see that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't notice it for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, oh.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cisco looked like too small in the same.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_03]: And after working with him for so long, you know how big his head is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I also know how big Bill's head is.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, right.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know both of them.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, they should look about the same thing, but anyway, it was just one of those I went, oh, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, that was a matching, that was a matching thing in visual effects.

[SPEAKER_05]: They could have blown up Cisco just a little bit more.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: But maybe they were hindered because the hands didn't match or the arm League.

[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: It had to be a technical thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: But we go back to Cisco's office.

[SPEAKER_06]: He tells the time police, you know, rubber in me if you have to.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Dolmar says here, you know, what?

[SPEAKER_06]: I probably would have done the same thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would have gotten Kirk to sign the duty roster.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, if I could meet him, that would be cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Despite his 27 violations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I've been at least Cisco covered himself enough telling the story that they didn't ask for gave him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, we go to ops is the time cops leave.

[SPEAKER_06]: Dex says so it went well.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Kira says, yes, the constable wants to see us though in the promenade.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we cut down to the promenade.

[SPEAKER_06]: Reveal troubles are everywhere.

[SPEAKER_06]: Cisco did not mention that part.

[SPEAKER_06]: And we see quirk in his residual scene here with the triple on his head.

[SPEAKER_06]: The place is full of him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, the button.

[SPEAKER_01]: So who brought it back?

[SPEAKER_04]: You brought the train, it was so sweet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, thank you, that's that's my, that's my huge, probably, Odo, probably Odo, probably Odo, it was really like that, that makes certainly wasn't worth, no, but that's my huge nitpick, that's where the temporal guys should have busted Cisco.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's that they're troubles everywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hold on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me explain it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys can all take it apart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Warf explains in an earlier scene that all the tribals have been obliterated.

[SPEAKER_00]: There are no tribals left in the universe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, 200 years later, there are tribals multiplying on deep space nine.

[SPEAKER_00]: The timeline has been violated.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's the point I think with Cisco not mentioning it, because he knew the tribals were down there.

[SPEAKER_05]: This was not the size of him.

[SPEAKER_05]: So what, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead and I can counter that as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, go ahead and finish Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, just saying that he covered his ass on that one by not mentioning it, knowing full well that the timeline time continuum was changed.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was changed.

[SPEAKER_00]: But here's my counter to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The two guys have to go from Cisco's office down to their shuttle.

[SPEAKER_00]: They have to pass through the promenade.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, they would have seen all the triples.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: I got it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Jonathan, you were on the set long enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: So was I.

[SPEAKER_00]: Every time somebody came in, they went through a portal and entered the promo.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: They did.

[SPEAKER_02]: But wait, there were times though, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely right.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys have won the argument.

[SPEAKER_06]: But the argument of the tribals are a menace and like infestation in the universe.

[SPEAKER_06]: Now what now now we're in trouble.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's like playing on zer terrify though.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, good.

[SPEAKER_00]: With all due respect to the episode, then Bashir should have disappeared.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, I think it was wrong.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to think too hard about that.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's not a bit.

[SPEAKER_06]: Well, maybe maybe she or did have a thing with her.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: We don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to think about a draw that I don't want to think about.

[SPEAKER_05]: If he did, I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm going to talk to Joe Hodge.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's what [SPEAKER_03]: I like DAX's suggestion at the very end to deal with the tripals.

[SPEAKER_03]: We could build another station.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the question and not nitpicking, just going on what you guys said, I would be fascinated to find out who brought it back.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Terry's right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh no, it's a great explanation.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's the only person I can think of.

[SPEAKER_02]: He was the only one holding it in the bar, liking it so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I can see him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he hammered with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he is human now.

[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe it's.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's busted in his jacket.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because he's human now.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a great explanation.

[SPEAKER_06]: And he's the one at the top of the scene who asked Cisco.

[SPEAKER_06]: Did you tell them?

[SPEAKER_06]: So it does suggest that, you know, did you tell them that I brought this back?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay, but that final shot on cork duplicating the bar the bartender of the original series with the triple on top of his head is just classic great episode Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think I had that [SPEAKER_05]: That's, you're referring to, that was one of the shots that we were matching to on something.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's all the turbos in 1960.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the frame.

[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love that you've kept this Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_06]: I love that you've got, I have very few scripts.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just was going through my closet recently and I, I, I [SPEAKER_06]: with thinking to myself, boy, I wish I had saved more things.

[SPEAKER_06]: So good for you.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I didn't save them all.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, this is a classic winner.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that's a special special episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: Good for you.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for sharing it with us, too.

[SPEAKER_06]: We do a thing now where we talk about the lesson, the theme or the moral that you take away, start trick off and has a moral lesson that we can all take away.

[SPEAKER_06]: My theme slash moral slash lesson of this episode, I have two of them.

[SPEAKER_06]: One is changing the past is not as simple as you might think.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's one lesson I have.

[SPEAKER_06]: The other lesson is just nostalgia is fun.

[SPEAKER_06]: This was a really fun episode, and that's my lesson, sometimes just a nostalgia can be fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: I like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Armin and then Terri.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have two two and my second one is identical to Robbie.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote down, it is strange how we hold on to pieces of the past and then the second one is, there's a yearning for innocence and simpler times.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Terrific.

[SPEAKER_02]: I like that a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wrote Carpadeum.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, Carpadeum.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, life's an adventure.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you are willing to be present and just enjoy whatever gloriousness is in front of you, just do your best to be present and then it's magical every moment because you're really in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Terry, if I may, you brought that to this episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was definitely in my heart.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have to work at it.

[SPEAKER_02]: They even sent me on a promo tour just because it was like, oh, my gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's so excited.

[SPEAKER_02]: We got to get her out there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's great.

[SPEAKER_05]: On that episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we went down to the subways and in LA because there were new and we took boxes and boxes of troubles and just put them everywhere.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did interviews and stuff too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, which was kind of remarkable because we didn't do very much press for the show Yeah, the show was the star they really wanted to make this 30th anniversary a big one So they yeah, they do all this extra PR for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that's made me I was so excited.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah You love doing it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, honestly, that's the easiest stuff in the world to do [SPEAKER_03]: Jonathan West, what is your lesson or take away or moral of this?

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't have a story moral, but I have just the image of bringing back, it is a tribute to the original Star Trek.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if it wasn't for the qualities in that series and the short three-year life ended up being 60 years worth of Star Trek, I still question how that happened.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's quite amazing that the franchise has continued to grow and develop, and it does now, too, even with the new Star Trek shows that we haven't talked about too much, but I think it's a once in a lifetime experience for me as a worker, whether it was as a director or a cinematographer.

[SPEAKER_05]: things that I'll never do twice in my life.

[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody can say what did you do.

[SPEAKER_05]: Once you mention you spent all that time on the Star Trek Stake O'aww.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's great.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anybody around the world.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's been my great pleasure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's awesome to hear and my quick theme slash lesson for this episode would be if you have a chance to bring back a species that's been extinct for 104 years, go for it!

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Spielberg expanded on that theme, didn't he?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, he was.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, he was.

[SPEAKER_05]: With Jurassic Park.

[SPEAKER_05]: And Jurassic Park?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: True, Jurassic Park.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Gene Roddenberry, for those three years, you're talking about, but to create next gen, that's what brought us all back.

[SPEAKER_02]: That he was alive, and he created next generation.

[SPEAKER_02]: gave us the opportunity to grow from there.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we kind of brought some, yeah, something that was kind of extinct as well, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Star Trek at the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, bring it back.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it, yeah, but you also like he, the idea kept getting bigger, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, it's just so wonderful how hard Gene Roddenberry worked on making that come to life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And Michael Pillar and Rick, there were no slouches, either when they did deep space.

[SPEAKER_05]: They went off in a slightly different search for humanity, to say that humanity isn't always positive, but what Gene had hoped for by the time of the 23rd or century rolled around that we had all had our ducks in a row as human beings, deep space night.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: So now that may not be the case in the universe, you know.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: They explored a lot of noir themes that I thought were pretty good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which was very horrible both of them because as we all know the fans weren't really didn't want to see that, but in time is proven them right over time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: 100% and it's, we're human.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're, we're never going to be completely without lessons to learn and things to grow from and complicated brains we have.

[SPEAKER_00]: And dark sides and light sides, dark sides and light sides.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, these episodes are evergreen, you know, they're kind of timeless in their own way.

[SPEAKER_06]: And this episode in particular, putting such different generations of track together and coming out with a great story like this is a proof.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's testing it to that, that it's just timeless.

[SPEAKER_06]: These are our producer writers need that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is so well written.

[SPEAKER_02]: and well shot.

[SPEAKER_06]: And very well directed.

[SPEAKER_06]: What is our Patreon poll winner theme lesson for this episode, Terry?

[SPEAKER_02]: Submitted by Andrew Kaplan, don't ever insult the enterprise in front of Scotty.

[SPEAKER_02]: We will let, we will let that be.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well said, well said.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, everyone.

[SPEAKER_03]: We have come to the end of our free podcast and we want to thank once again our very very special guest Jonathan.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for being here.

[SPEAKER_03]: My pleasure.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I love you so much.

[SPEAKER_03]: And also thank you to both Terry and Armin for being here together.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's always nice to have.

[SPEAKER_03]: that synergy of all of us together.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: And please join us next time when we'll be recapping and discussing the episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let he who is without sin and that will be with Terri and Armin yet again.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that will be an exciting time for all of our Patreon patrons.

[SPEAKER_03]: Please stay tuned for your bonus material for everyone else.

[SPEAKER_03]: See you next time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[SPEAKER_04]: Bye.