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Welcome into an all new episode of her playbook.

I'm Madeline Burke, joined this week by the Victoria Jacoby.

You may know her as count On Vic.

If you follow the NBA or really anything in pop culture, you've seen this woman out and about.

Thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you for having me.

I feel like I've known you for years now, I know, and yeah, we really know each other.

We've seen each other.

We go back, we go back, and I love it.

And I think one of the things that the way we're going to start this is the question I'm sure you get the most, which is how do you describe what you do?

You do so many things.

You're such a multi hyphen it.

What would you call your job?

You know, I'm still figuring that out.

I feel like it's such a good time for women to be doing multiple things and not just being tied down to I just do marketing, or I just do branding, or I just do athlete relations, or I'm also you know, I've tapped into being kind of my own talent, which you know I've seen you do as well when you're invited to events and you're doing all those things that make you kind of be under the lights, which has been fun.

But I think I do a little bit of those things right, the branding, marketing, athlete relations, and I kind of bring it all together.

But as you know, NBA friends like to call me the dot connector exactly, I think is the best way to describe I really think.

That's a perfect way of describing you too, because you do connect so many dots, whether it's bringing people together for opportunities, or bringing brands to an athlete for you know, to style somebody in an event, whether it's a WNBA draft or an NBA red carpet, and also just being such a connector in oh, this person should know this person so that they can work together.

And you've found a creative way to monetize that and to make just being a friendly and connected person a career, which is cool.

Yeah, I think you know, for a very long time, you do the things that come naturally to you as that person that just loves being around people, like being social, and then you get to a point where you're like, Okay, this feels like a job because it is a full time job, right, always communicating and dealing with a lot of talent, a lot of different egos, a lot of different entities when it comes to sports, because it's not just the players, it's not just the people behind the scenes.

It's kind of a little bit of both.

So being able to be the mediator within that and truly like joying.

I do love to see things come to life after I've made that connection.

Yeah, I think that's what makes it fun.

Yeah.

Right, Well, and these are all things that are so authentic to you.

I mean, you are such a fashionable stylist person as we can see here in studio, as we see anytime we see court side at an NBA game.

But also you are an athlete.

You know, you moved to New York as a young girl for tennis.

Yes, and that is something that really kind of started your tell the story about kind of how that trajectory kind of started your New York experience.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I am fully in New York City girl, you can say now, and the city definitely molded me into what I am, as harsh as and lonely as I can feel sometimes.

But I moved here when I was twelve from the Middle East and always played basketball in tennis.

Continued with tennis just because it was easier as an immigrant child not really speaking language and knowing anybody.

Tennis is a solo sport, not a team player.

And I'm kidd come, but yeah, tennis was something that I truly loved and enjoyed.

And then I would go home and watch basketball.

I would watch NBA until one two am because I'm a Laker fan and US East Coast girls have to stay up, you know how that is.

And it truly just became a passion to watch games and connect and learn English through watching sports.

Yeah, so it's always kind of like a deeper story for me, if that makes sense.

It's kind of it means more.

It's not just watching sports.

It's something that helped me assimilate.

Right, and it became a part of your identity and your career path as well.

And you know, as a Laker fan, I know Kobe Bryant was pivotal in your career.

How did you and Kobe first connect and how did he become such a big part in your life.

Twitter?

Yeah, yes, I will be continued.

I will continue to call it Twitter.

It's not excess, you know, listen the og ones.

No, yes, yes, we call it Twitter.

It was on Twitter.

I was still a teenager.

It was a holiday weekend.

It was like a Friday or Saturday.

And I just started jumping up and down because Kobe followed me.

I had.

He said he was following one hundred fans.

He was going to follow one hundred fans.

He made a Twitter.

Everyone's like, oh my god, Kobe's on Twitter.

It was twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, and I think I sent him a shirt that I got from Nike and it was a Mamba shirt and I sent him a picture of the shirt still with the tag on.

I was like, look what I just got.

I was a kid.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Next thing I know, Kobe ro and Bryant follows you and I was like, oh my.

I started jumping up and down.

My family my dad was like, what are you doing?

Like Kobe is like okay, I don't know what's happening, and you know, a couple tweets I think it was about D'Antoni at the time, the coach, the Lakers coach kind of went viral.

They were on ESPN for the weekend.

Everybody was talking about Kobe talkstafan about coach D'Antoni.

What does this mean?

And it was like a whole thing.

Gained a lot of following from that moment and kind of felt like, Okay, Kobe's my friend now, so you know social media.

So I had DMed him, thank you so much for doing this for your fans and you know, you're so great and whatever, and he was just like, yeah, of course, it's all love and set me a little heart and I was like, the hell is going on?

And then ever since then, it's just been very like I when I meet him, it's gonna be great.

And they always say, don't meet your idols, and I don't think I've ever had an idol outside of just really loving Kobe Bryant and his mentality and how he goes about certain things.

And I felt really connected to him also because he as a child, he lived in Italy and he had to move back here and he kind of talked about moving back to Philly as a teenager and going through you know, becoming an American again almost and I really resonated with me.

I really connected with that because I was an immigrant kid and having a sport kind of guide you through those moments of whether you're lonely, or you're new somewhere or you don't really know anyone, that was something that I really respected him for.

And then I got to meet him and he was incredible.

Yeah, just a really kind, sweet human being and was so happy to give advice.

I have this video of him just talking to me outside of a green room and he's like, if you have five minutes, I'll just I'll be right back.

And I was like five minutes.

I was like, oh, I'll be here for hours, right, yeah, yeah, I don't have to go home.

And he was just so great, And after that initial meeting, he remembered me every time I saw him after that.

So, you know, the few moments that I had are everything, and they're very meaningful to me.

So basically I owe it all to Kobe.

Well, and it's and Kobe, but also the impact of social media, right, I mean, especially in the early days.

I mean, I remember Kobe Shaq was also one of those people who would tweet out and say, Hey, the first fan to find me on the beach in Miami gets two.

Tickets to this game.

And you know, there were a lot of athletes that were using that platform in the early days of connecting with people, and it kind of bridged that gap a little bit better, and it made it easier for somebody who is an avid hoopad like yourself to kind of break into that world and connect.

And you know, now when you look at the way that social media has evolved and given so many people a voice, but also an opportunity to connect with people that may seem out of reach or out of your circle, Like how important is that?

It's very important?

And I think you know, sometimes social media can be very overwhelming obviously when you're an athlete too, Like guys are kind of they've had to find what works for them, like I'm just not going to be on social media during the season or during certain games, or if I'm not playing well or if I'm hurt, they kind of like to disconnect, which I really respect because it could be a really dark place, you know, But at the same time I've met some of my long term friends.

I think we for initially followed each other on Instagram and then I got to meek Yeah, and then you meet someone you already have that connection and you meet someone it's even better in real life.

Right.

So I r l as the kids say, but yeah, I think it's it's helped me a lot.

It's it put me on the scene because after the Kobe thing, it was kind of a snowball of a lot of people in the industry that I respected, like Carrie Champion, who's another big Laker fan, and Cassidy Hubberth and all these women that I really looked up to started following me and really respecting what I was saying because they were like, you're hilarious, and you have this like sometimes you say things that we wish we could say, and we can't say that we're all thinking it.

Yeah, So I was like, Wow, I guess whatever stupid thing I thought I said it made sense to someone or made someone laugh.

So just being authentically yourself as such, I mean people always ask what's the magic sauce to getting here there or whatever.

I think authenticity and that's something that you there's no sauce.

There's no sauce.

I always get you know, I'm sure you did too with your career path.

There's always young women who want to know, like, I just love your relationships and how you move and how do I do that?

And I'm just kind of like, I can't.

I can't teach that.

You either feel it and you have it or quite honestly, you don't because it's so hard for so many people to deal with the egos and the personalities and all those things.

It's something that you can learn to do, but if you don't really enjoy it, you're never gonna love doing it.

Sure, so the idea of the highlights that we showcase you and I people like you on social media is not always what it seems.

It's harder and there's a lot that goes into it building those relationships.

For example, when you're speaking to athletes and they're comfortable with you, that takes time, you know.

And I think as long as the person that I'm trying to help or give advice to knows that it's their own process, it's their own lane, it's their own path and how they are within themselves, and that resonates, then it should be a fun experience.

But if it's not and you're trying to be someone else, I always say, comparison secks.

It's the worst thing you can do.

So with social media, always remember that whatever someone else is doing is not what you have to be doing, and it's not the same recipe necessarily.

It's also too it's when you are authentic to who you are and using your voice, it feels very different than when you are trying to emulate somebody else exact and it's like, you know that one's already taken, like, be true to you.

And that's what's worked so well with you in growing your voice and your presence from you know, a social media celebrity to somebody who is just fully in the mix and in the world and has earned the trust of a lot of athletes, from you know, from Kobe to Haley van Lyth to several devn book er you know, I see you working with so many household names and in terms of you know, styling and helping them with their personal businesses.

And I think one of the things that I've always noticed about you is you don't start from a place of okay, how can this work for me?

How can I build my business.

You have always started from a place of giving, right.

You start from a place of Oh, I see somebody, let me give you this, let me help you with that.

I see an area in which I can enhance your life.

And that's such a rare quality because I think a lot of people move through the world looking for ways that they can benefit themselves.

But you've moved through the world looking for ways you can benefit other people.

Yeah, And I think that's the hard part, right, because a lot of what the industry is is transactional, and I've had to learn how to go about entities and people who are transactional.

And that's okay if they are right, because that's how the industry moves, and people have to get paid and you have to get something back.

I wish I had learned a little earlier and sooner how to go about those things because I never worked for anyone.

I've always done my thing.

I've had opportunities with teams and big name brands that I considered when I was consulting for them in that time, and then I would get an offer and it just wasn't for me.

I felt like the long run, In the long run, the harder path is doing it yourself.

But I always just wanted to do my own thing.

And don't get me wrong, there's days where I thought about, maybe I should go look for a real job and if it's in a four h one, k yes and a nine to five and all of that, And you know, it is hard sometimes, but you do again go back to how transactional that is, and it just was never me.

Like you said, you kind of know that about me.

But I love seeing something that I'm excited about or that could work for someone and then bringing it to life.

So I'm going to go make it happen.

So whether it's an athlete or a brand or being in the middle of that.

There's so many brands now right that want to get in with athletes.

Luxury brands, for example, Kendra Scott having the New York Giants partnership.

That's major.

That's not really something that you used to see in this capacity.

Now every team has creative directors.

They're getting into that, right Ronnie with the Knicks and Kith and what they're doing in those special courts and collaborations.

So those are things that are just enhancing what the athletes are trying to do in their personal brands.

So it's very important, especially with the younger guys when I'm working now with Duce McBride and Jalen Sucks and those guys, for them to understand that they are a brand and they can move like a brand.

You're not just going to practice and then the game and then doing an interview for the team and you're going home.

It can be more than that, depending on what they want to do and what they like and what their interests are.

There's just so much out there.

So for me to open that world, whether it's the fashion thing that I love to do, because who doesn't love to go to Paris or gaming, you know, everything with two K and my friend Ronnie Tuk and everything he's doing and every time he wanted to tap in with someone that I'm close with in the league and do something a little different.

I just enjoy being able to curate those things, show the athletes that you can do this, this is an opportunity, you will get paid for it.

And then making that now after years of like you said, doing things out of love and build that really helped me build my relationships to now we get paid and I have an agent and it's a thing, right, because you have to learn how to move in a as a business woman well.

And also what you do and what you offer has value.

And I think when you do it out of love so purely, sometimes people might the wrong people might take advantage of that.

And so how was that moment when you realize, Okay, this is something I need to monetize, I need to charge and placing a value on something, you know.

I think that's something a lot of people struggle with of how do I put a monetary value on what I'm contributing here and how do I ask for what I want and deserve in this situation.

So for me, it was enough people telling me that I had to Yeah, So whether it was players, like the first player I ever worked with was Mellow right, so Carmelo Anthony and being in the gym with him every day, and then people around that space said, hey, like, you're doing so much for the players, whether it's making sure they have private dinner reservations or they want to go to shows during fashion week because all the guys would come and play at that gym for fashion week.

Enough people telling you that you are bringing value and you need to be paid for it, you're gonna believe it at some point, because that syndrome that a lot of us have when we're just big hearted and we want to give all the time is I have to get something back.

So you kind of have to go through the process of how do I charge?

So I talk to a lot of people I went to even when I was doing the styling, right, like how much do you charge per outfit?

Or is it for the season, or how many outfits do they?

You know how to structure those things.

I think I just went to the people I knew were doing that specific thing very well.

And thankfully I know amazing people who are very good at what they do and learning through that.

But again, it's very hard, especially for creatives, I feel like, to ask for money.

It's not an easy thing, especially when it's an athlete you've had a friendship with for three four years and you've done all this stuff for free or for you know, for the low, and then you have to have that conversation of hey, in money case you know, yeah, And it does and I've learned my lessons.

Don't get me wrong, but I've never really had anyone question my worth or make me feel lesser than which which is good because everyone recognizes the value and the work.

So if you want to pay for it, great, I'm here.

If not, we can be friends, but you're gonna have to go to someone else.

There you go, and a lot of times, you know, those things come back too, because they realize once they go to a big name agency, they don't know them like I know them, right, They don't have they just don't have the connections I have.

So once you realize what you're worth and what you have in your bag, there's nobody can touch like, there's no one that can touch that.

So now I'm in a place where instead of just giving, gim me giving, I can say, hey, this is what I can do.

This is how it's going to enhance you and what you have going on.

Yeah, And I can kind of pick and choose, which is nice.

I can I can find my spots.

I can pick what's worth it and not.

And you know, you have spent so much of your career lifting up the people around you and that people that you've connected with, and now you know, like you mentioned earlier, you're in an era too where you're stepping into that spotlight as well.

And realizing like I also am a person to be you know, promoted and propped up in this space.

How was that process for you?

Because I know when we first met you were very much like I'm behind the scenes.

I'm you know, paying no attention to the to the vic behind the current.

And now you're stepping into your shine and I love to see that.

How was that transition for you?

It's hard, It was hard.

No, it was easier than I thought it would be.

Yeah, after you do something a few times and you kind of enjoy it, you want to do more of it.

It's just how it goes.

But realizing that you can just be yourself and people want you there as you, it's very empowering, especially after being that person of I just want to be behind the scenes.

So you know, even my agent when she came to me a year ago and wanted to sign me sign with DBA, and that was a moment of her kind of explaining what she can do for me and how she sees my trajectory moving forward as just big as an entity was really cool because you don't really necessarily think about yourself in that sense.

Sometimes you need, like I said earlier, someone else to tell you, and I think it's it's very important to be receptive to that.

Right when you're just mostly everyone else's mom and you're thinking about everyone else, Yeah, you're taking care of everyone else.

You're like, all right, let me let me take care of me a little bit too.

Yeah, And then you realize, you know, you can get paid to do things and and look good and be places because your value as you in the space matters.

People care for some reason what I wear on the court, like we want to see the full fit.

First of all, we've never seen this woman miss like always.

Don't get me wrong, I have games where I'm just like very very low key in there, but I always write like people care and I truly enjoy putting it on, so I'm gonna put it on.

And also, if there is a brand that wants to pay for certain things, and I can work with them, but I never say yes to just say yes just for the money.

I think that's very important to like I've said no to things, or you know, I'll say yes if I have the creative say And that's it's a very difficult kind of line that you don't want to cross because you can have the potential of doing that, but then the money and the opportunities will come in and you're just kind of like, okay, do I do all of this?

And then it's oversaturated and it doesn't seem authentic.

Like you said earlier, you have to be authentic to yourself.

And it's also you got to ask yourself if is aligned with my personal brand?

Is just like exactly who I am and who I want to present myself to be exactly?

Yeah, And some things are just not gonna hate.

Like I know my following right it's mostly athletes, basketball fans, fashion people, New York, LA, like those big cities, and I know what they're expecting to see.

So I'm not going to come out and, you know, present something that I'm not right just for a check.

So I think that's also very important.

So having someone like an agent or a manager or somebody like that to kind of help you navigate those spaces and then I don't have to say no anymore and you can just say it.

For me and somebody else who can be kind of like the decipherer for you.

Yeah, Like, all right, is this aligned or is this not?

What are you working on now that you're excited about what I'm working on now.

Well, we started we myself and three other friends.

We started an agency.

It's called Downtown.

It's a creative consulting agency, and we have really cool brands that we work with.

But growing that is really exciting.

We have a studio in Manhattan where we you know, kind of do the creative thing as well, and that's been really fun.

And that's a side that I really don't showcase too much because that is the business, right, But being able to kind of say I have a team now, and we have a space, and we can offer all these things that any agency would, and to know that we can also execute in the best way is really cool.

It's not just me anymore.

I can kind of tap into that.

So that's been really exciting.

Isn't it wild?

Sometimes you ever think like I just went from just an avid basketball fan tweeting at my favorite basketball player to now building a whole business enterprise.

I have a team now, Yeah, And it's pretty cool.

It's wild how life works and when you just kind of lean in and follow that bath.

Yeah, and still, like you know, people think I have it all figured out.

I don't.

Every day is different, right, And that's I think even yesterday, I met with a new friend and she just started at a major basketball talent agency, and she just kind of said she wants to pick my brain, and she said, it's so hard to with everything going on and all these new people you have to meet to navigate that and it's so small.

But she's like, I see you doing all these things.

I'm like, there's not one day that I don't question myself, you know, Yeah, and you have those moments where it's kind of like, I don't know if I if this is for me, or I don't know if I can do this, and you just kind of have to like the imposter syndrome, the imposter Yeah.

Yeah, and a lot of my friends in the industry, like we talk about this all the time, and it's still hard for me to navigate through that, but it's something that we all go through.

So by no means do you look at me and think she has it all figured out.

I have my days.

Yeah, we all do.

But every day is different.

So I think that's what's always gotten me through.

I'm not a person that can do the same thing every day.

But yeah, it's it's fun.

It's fun to be on the court and see all the love from these Like sometimes I'm you know, at all star Like I I'm just on the court and all these players are saying HI with something and this and that, and I'm just like ten years ago, just the kid tweeting Kobe Bryant, you know what I mean, Like I didn't know anyone.

Yeah, and just knowing that I have those relationships and the friendships and some guys I'm closer to than others obviously, but just the respect that I see and that I get, now, it's it's all making it worth it, if that makes sense.

And for a lot of the guys, you were with them shooting in the gym, I was definitely rebounding.

I was shooting.

I was, you know, getting the content.

I was doing the thing.

But that's why I'm like, I really know you guys.

Yeah, I know you guys off the court, You're just there's just people.

They're people.

They have feelings, they they go through things, they get injured, you know, and then they have their highs and they have their lows.

And the second you get to know an athlete, you understand that the lows can be really low and the highs can be really high.

So just being there sometimes is all they need.

Right.

Often people look at, whether it's athletes or influential peoples, like the surface of who they are or the dollar amount that they make, instead of realizing that, you know, the highs and lows and the complexity of everyone's experience, whether it's oh, we all have the imposter syndrome, we all have our rough days, we all have the moments where you know, we feel like we could be doing more, could be doing better.

No matter who you are, and connecting so authentically to people and as you build them up is really such a special gift of yours.

Thank you, Thank you.

I feel like we connected on that a very long time ago, and it's been only growing since, so I can't complain.

But I think the biggest thing for me was always trying to chase myself right, because I would get something done and then immediately think about what's next and how I can top that and what I'm going to do tomorrow, and still learning how to do this, but I think I've gotten better at just realizing, hey, I just did that.

That was really cool.

Me just sit on it for a second and then I can think about what's next, And that's kind of grounded me a little better because I feel like I was always when you're chasing yourself because you're like, how are you gonna?

That was awesome?

Okay, let me know ya, how do we do better?

It's not healthy?

Yeah, And I think I've just needed to ground myself a little better because you know, if you were like, you're everywhere, So once you realize and Carrie Champion said this to me, she said, you know, sometimes you don't have to be everywhere.

And the second you get to that point where you come into a room and it's like, oh wow, she's here, right, and it's more of a moment, then you realize that running around everywhere was one chapter and that was the early on days where you needed to do that, and now you don't.

Need to do that anymore, right, and now your presence carries that weight.

That is cool, Yeah, because there's only so much.

Time in a day.

Girl.

Yeah, it's nice to be able to feel like you don't have the folmo anymore.

Yeah.

I like it's so I'm so good if I don't go here, or I miss this just because I need a day off, or I just mentally I can't be around that right now, yeah.

So yeah, it's empowering because I used to always put myself kind of at the back of it and be like, I have to go and do this so I can see whoever talk to this person or you know, this is going to help me in the future.

Yeah, sometimes it doesn't help if you're not fully feeling well with yourself, or you're tired or whatever it might be, it's better to just yeah, yeah, no, I feel that too.

Sometimes if I'm like, I don't have a full battery today, this isn't.

The version of me that needs to show up at that.

So you're better at that.

Then I feel like somewhere in between me and you.

Is we're never We're never all the way there.

No, we're all just doing our best.

But I'm so greatful.

Thank you so much for taking the time to chat out story.

I know the same, and you have like such a great unique path to where you come into and what you've built for yourself, and so thank you for sharing your story on your playbook.

You're the best.

You're the best, Victoria Jacoby.

But you know ours count on vic follow her on Twitter because that's what we're gonna call it.

For all of time.

Uh, Instagram, all of it.

Thank you so much for joining her playbook.

Her Playbook Podcast presented by Kendra Scott.

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