[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everybody.

[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Auto Call and May FS, I'm your host, Tane.

[SPEAKER_01]: Here to talk to you today about couples therapy season 4, Episode 16.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are winding down, we have two more episodes left.

[SPEAKER_01]: Covering this with me is the lovely Jen, hi Jen, how are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing good, I'm so refreshed after we took a little break and now we're back.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to deal with Boris and his weirdness.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm actually looking forward to these episodes now, but I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or it's great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, these couples, it's funny because I am not drawn to any couple.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not like, oh my god, like I just really want them to wear.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: This season is a weird season to previous seasons.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna lie.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like I don't feel any, the word's not affinity, but I just, I'm not attached to any couple.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you rooting for any couple?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, is there some couple that you're like, I hope at the end of this, you get the clarity that you deserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hope at the end of this, you get, we figure out why you put all your mess out on TV.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what I'm saying.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I care that much.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's kind of the only thing I know I strongly feel is that Kyla Mundo should not be together.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why what they try to sell us on this episode, I just don't, I don't like imbalanced relationships and they give me that heavy, no matter what they try to tell us and I just feel like it's sad to me sometimes when [SPEAKER_01]: One party thinks like they can't do better and they just convinced him.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, I love this person so much and you don't realize that it could be better.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I'm kind of that's kind of what I said on the last episode of the tough thing about this show is that there's nothing funny about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we can't turn it into like ha ha look with other than Allison and her sparkly sweaters like there's nothing really funny that we can glean from this so it they end up being pretty heavy episodes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, like so, you know, there's a lot of funny and light shows, so I'm okay with the heaviness, but I feel like in the past we have had couples where it's like, oh, I really hope they're working through, although May journey of the sentiment is like, none of this couple should be together But I mean, these are just like, oh, maybe there's a tenderness, maybe there's something, but these couples just seem, I don't know, I don't know if it's a, I don't think they're all [SPEAKER_01]: Well, except for Kalimando, they're willing to be transparent.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fun when it's a therapy show and you feel like the people are holding back.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where I'm going with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, okay, diving straight into Rod and Allison.

[SPEAKER_01]: She is wearing her secret Disney sweater and I'm like, is she wearing that back to back?

[SPEAKER_01]: But that just lays credence to what you said in the last episode that I don't think we're seeing that in order.

[SPEAKER_01]: They just used that for them in the waiting room.

[SPEAKER_01]: She was sitting in the waiting room with Rod waiting for it, but by the time they got into the actual room, that is not the sweater she was wearing.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, ha!

[SPEAKER_01]: Gotcha, we watched reality shows, so we can't think of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Rod says that he's not prone to speaking much, but when he does, it can be raw, it can be difficult.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what you mean, sir?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because honor has to be like, specifically, what?

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said they were talking and it triggered an upset from her.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, we are never going to be rid of this Ari because Allison is a walking trigger.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hi Allison, why did you say that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you need something from me?

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't say hello.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just said hi.

[SPEAKER_01]: That makes me so angry.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you talking to me?

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, it's funny because it's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says that she did get a part-time job.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Allison, I'm happy because I think part of it is [SPEAKER_01]: she needs to expend her energy somewhere where she feels useful.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the job is, but she usually has to work weekends, and that's when they usually spend their time together.

[SPEAKER_01]: as his rod says is weak end, not weak end, like weak end, together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so on Sunday, he was off, I guess she had to work, so he just got in his head, he starts thinking about life and he's like, you know, where I am in life, that could be further, and he was just in a spiral.

[SPEAKER_01]: Rod.

[SPEAKER_01]: Relatable content.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel you.

[SPEAKER_01]: I hear USC.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, um, I was just as she knew and she asked him and was like, How are you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, Oh, I'm fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she just left it.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I'm not going to press it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I usually do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be overbearing anymore.

[SPEAKER_01]: You say you're fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take your word at it and you're fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: thinking, what is the purpose of this story?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because once again, we are jumping into a story where I feel like we were not prepared for in the background.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Rod is quiet.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think we've talked about it in some kind of way.

[SPEAKER_01]: He feeds into this.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I bet he was mad that she didn't press.

[SPEAKER_01]: To be honest, wrong with him, because the thing that he criticizes her for is actually the thing that he's, whether he's used to or he likes it, he likes that dynamic.

[SPEAKER_01]: Loki, I do think that Rod and these Allison's loudness.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because she gets to say what she wants to say, she gets to be bold, she gets to be audacious and do whatever regardless of how it's being received.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's doing her, and she's speaking her mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't get to do that, and sometimes you can be envious of just qualities that you do not possess.

[SPEAKER_01]: Personally, you know, yeah, same.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I also want step further, as I wonder, too, if he wants her to treat him the way she wants to be treated, because if he ever asked her, what's the matter?

[SPEAKER_00]: And she says nothing, and he let it go, she'd be upset.

[SPEAKER_00]: to some degree, maybe he's testing her, like, hey, if I just said, if I just asked you this one thing and let it go, you wouldn't do it to me, you would want me to press.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I want you to press for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there's such an interesting dynamic in terms of what they want.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just ask what you want.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want a kiss, say I want a kiss.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want her to ask you more questions, say, hey, babe, I want you to ask me more questions, like, that's what people mean when they say communicates.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not just saying words.

[SPEAKER_01]: and they've done this for so long that again, they don't know how to get out of it, you know?

[SPEAKER_01]: So Orna tells Virginia that, you know, Rod and I was in came in with a lot of noise, a lot of noise, a lot of sound, but Allison is actually doing serious work and she's actually unrecognizable at this point, but that Rod on the other hand, she doesn't think she's even made a dent on him and when he's not clear, [SPEAKER_01]: about what he's feeling doesn't know how to articulate it.

[SPEAKER_01]: He used the word recruits Allison.

[SPEAKER_01]: My interpretation, which I agree with, is that he is basically hiding behind Allison.

[SPEAKER_01]: If anything happens, oh, she's allowed wife, I can easily say, oh, you know Allison, she got annoyed, she got this, but the problem is, as Allison is benefiting from this therapy [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if that happens a lot in therapy where like maybe one person in the couple.

[SPEAKER_00]: is kind of making changes and that other person is stagnant and kind of resents that their dynamic has changed who they don't know what to do with the change dynamic.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that's what we're experiencing now is that Allison, not only is she benefiting from having this other job and maybe having somewhere else to another outlet for all of her emotions and feelings and whatever she had pent up and getting, you know, we talked about her doing well when she's patting on the head and maybe she's getting that from work that she doesn't need it at home.

[SPEAKER_00]: as much.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because whether you want to admit it or not, yes, Allison is loud and makes all the noise, but Rod is a creature of habit, and he's just a comfort zone type of guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still mad that we never followed up from the homework that, um, or not gave them many, many episodes ago, but okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, Orna asked him, what do you want from Allison?

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says kindness [SPEAKER_01]: He says he wants a 50, 50 with her for her to be patient and let him get there without interrupting.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says like, you know, like, you know, he's saying what he wants, then he says, this process has given Allison awareness and, [SPEAKER_01]: Trigger.

[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha [SPEAKER_01]: Um, she asked you how are you doing and you said I'm fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: She left it.

[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't being overbearing.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I know that it's giving you awareness.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just because she blows up doesn't mean you should back up and say no, I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: But she gets all mad that I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: He noticed something which to me was like a compliment.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would argue that like I said, she lets him talk and he notices her pausing and [SPEAKER_01]: She's just triggered and I just wish you would just do the business and that's where I was like, because I first I don't think I agreed it or another that she had to make a dent with rod, but I'm like, she might be right because he immediately retreated and I was like, yeah, I don't know that and let her run away with the narrative that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Allison is like, oh, we get into these assumptions.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we try to say, like, we assume these things, but we don't even know it's for fact.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, and that's all wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that goes back to last week when she said to him, you know, I don't want to fix you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, I'm not broken.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So like, what is it that she feels like she needs to manage because there's something about [SPEAKER_00]: Silence and, you know, where he needs that time, he'll say something and he needs time to figure out what's next and like her anxiety makes her feel like she needs to fill that space.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's a weird dynamic that got.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, or not, just kind of, you know, round it up for them, and he says, like, you know, I need to own my own space for some reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's the littlest things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Allison really loves the fact that he says he needs to own his own space.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here saying, like, what, why is that so great?

[SPEAKER_01]: But she's like, I actually like him right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like him right now more than I've liked him for the last few weeks.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_01]: And it even brought us like what I say it again, like It's on my own space.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and I'm like this is interesting, but yeah So it was a for for Rod and Allison.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a good episode for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's still one of those things where they're at first in the last or the last episode recovered.

[SPEAKER_00]: I said, you know, Allison kind of looks to Orna when she does something good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like she wants cookie and praise and maybe Rod has a little bit of that too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like when he does something good, he wants either Orna or Allison to be like, that's good insights, sir.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when she said, I kind of like you right now, he's like, oh, what did I do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me do that again.

[SPEAKER_00]: pay attention to that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that was it for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Take a quick break and talk about Kyle and Mundo.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so they pick back up on what they talked about last time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Kyle says, we don't talk much about being in an interracial relationship, which is insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember how long they've been together.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, but especially again, and maybe we're getting stuff out of last week, like that was the whole last episode was about how Mondo feels dismissed, racially.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what, did you not talk about that when y'all went home?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think he means they're picking up from last week, so I feel like he did just mean in the entirety of their relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why Mondo also felt like, [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I can't bring it up and then Kyle has just never noticed and in the whole time they've just never talked about the fact that they're in an interracial relationship, but probably because of some times in a lot of cases, a lot of white people don't like talking about race.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Mondo is all about keeping Kyle comfortable.

[SPEAKER_01]: So God, man, I'm not gonna say anything.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think he also plays a part in it, especially being the one that has been dismissed.

[SPEAKER_01]: At first, I'm not saying he should not even be dismissed at all, but if you're uncomfortable and your partner is doing that to you and you're choosing to stay with them.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I don't understand.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's not an excuse, but Kyle even had no idea this was an issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, and again, when you don't want to, on to Orna say, and like, yeah, you're why it doesn't affect you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you think about that?

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it is kind of interesting, again, to for for Kyle to be quote unquote an other and not consider the times where Mondo might be another.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's that that part blows me away more than just the white thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: if you're just a random white dude, okay, whatever, but you're a deaf dude.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like how does that not come into your life?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that doesn't shock me at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't shock me because sometimes it's just I don't know or understand the the blinders that come with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like Orna was not wrong at all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like she said it perfectly.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, you know, that's what comes in being white.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just [SPEAKER_01]: Kyle, you should know.

[SPEAKER_01]: But Mondo says, he didn't know if he had a place at the table to even say that he felt weird and Anna is a one who helps him and says the word, other.

[SPEAKER_01]: Orner and Virginia are talking, and I think now that we don't have Boris and Jessica, we're gonna see a lot of Orner and Virginia and Orner and her peers when she talks about the couples that she's working with.

[SPEAKER_01]: Orner and Virginia say that Mondo and Kyle that opening their relationship opened up more things [SPEAKER_01]: And on a wonder is if that's why people open relationships to unlock some sort of lockdown that they have in their relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that's not why people are not asking you're giving them a much credit.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's a it's a natural process that yes, it does unlock things when you open up your relationships because you encounter new territory or something that you have an encounter before.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not because, oh, let's go open it because we might unlock this thing in our relationship that would give us more no, it's not that people just either a lustful want to have more sex or bored [SPEAKER_01]: and just want to try and eat things.

[SPEAKER_01]: It is not some self introspection reason or thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Generally, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have friends who are in the ethical, non-monogamy lifestyle.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for one company, a particular, the man was really driving it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the shock, and he's experienced when he realized, like, oh, no, no, in this lifestyle, she's the hot commodity.

[SPEAKER_00]: like whatever happens to you is a byproduct of her being the hot one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's always it that seems to be an unexpected byproduct of the partner who brings it up thinking, oh, this is going to open all this stuff up for me and then they're going, oh wait, that opens all this stuff up for my partner and it just so while that a lot of people don't consider that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if anything else, if I had to choose what the reason is, it's because people think that a lot of people believe that monogamy is not natural, they just believe like it's impossible for you to be a one person or say a life and then but they do love the person that they're with and instead of just cheating on them, like just opening it up so that way you're getting whatever these needs being met and still having that relationship with that person, well, like you said, there are these on, on 14 circumstances.

[SPEAKER_01]: that they do not plan for that come up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have to do with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I wanna ask them where they are, Mundo and Kyle in their open relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Mundo was like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I went into fucking mode.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let them have sex.

[SPEAKER_01]: You have sex or whoever I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll figure it out.

[SPEAKER_01]: But he felt otherwise earlier because he didn't think that they had earned it.

[SPEAKER_01]: As a couple, I wonder what he meant by that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But since therapy, they have been analyzing it, [SPEAKER_01]: And he now knows what it feels like or in our ass, him, what does it feel like?

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you explain that?

[SPEAKER_01]: And he says it feels like freedom.

[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like a lot of trust.

[SPEAKER_01]: I trust that Kyle is not going to do anything dumb.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think my question for you is, do we believe that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I believe that only because of where he went from there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe the restriction was maybe kind of part of the excitement for Kyle was that knowing that what I'm doing, it feels like I'm getting away with something and when you've told me I can't, I can get away with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: that it's not as exciting anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: When kids want to smoke and parents like here, here's a pack, and they smoke a pack, and they're like, is that what that is?

[SPEAKER_00]: Never mind, I don't want any more.

[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe Mondo giving Kyle what he wanted and Kyle going, oh, is this what this is?

[SPEAKER_00]: When I can have it, it feels different.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was what it felt like to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I cannot understand that I think I wasn't thinking about doing something dumb only in terms of sex because I think from what they've said in the past, it was a little dabble in drugs, it was getting drunk when you go out and not being, you know, Mundo being worried, like you see going to be safe when his drunk and things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I wasn't sure, I don't know, but I fully embraced Mundo being like fuck it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So Kyle says that he's thing is like as long as you come home at night, that's all I'm concerned about, well last week he was worried.

[SPEAKER_01]: And [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and I was like, worried about what he was like, oh, he just went out and it was over an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know what he was and kind of a motto is like, oh, but I was with friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I sent a timestamp.

[SPEAKER_01]: I sent this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I sent that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what is this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, was was Kyle doing that when he went away?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what is it now?

[SPEAKER_01]: He was trying to make sure him.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I'm trying to reassure him.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, oh, yeah, I was your friends.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like so now you don't feel good when it's too people what is with this only one person can enjoy the open relationship This is why I'm convinced I said this a couple of episodes ago that it's a power thing [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't like it, this is my, I don't mind that they want to be in an open relationship, but if two people are not aligned, and then now he's on board and now you don't like it in an hour, like even the whole thing of where are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Showing the timestamps, I didn't like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that went so casually that I'm like, okay, maybe I'm the problem, but that's not fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought you just said you're gonna trust each other, and no one's gonna do anything dumb, but if I'm gonna really show where I have to send the picture and a timestamp to prove to you where I am, [SPEAKER_00]: That's not good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's crazy because I think even the last episode, Kyle was talking about him in Mondo, we're like at the same bar, and Mondo walked away, did you something else?

[SPEAKER_00]: And Kyle made out with somebody while Mondo was right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like what?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think in this situation it's one of those, you ever see those, um, [SPEAKER_00]: TikTok stories about the men who are like, no, I'm not gonna let you go on a girls weekend I would never let my wife go on a girls weekend and it's less about what she's doing and what you would do if you were in her situation And that's what this felt like to me is that cows more worried about what he would do or what he has done when [SPEAKER_00]: Mondo was at home, and now he's at home, and he's like, wait, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you were doing some crap, and now you're wearing it happening to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just eat the whole dynamic.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't like.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the whole thing is because Mondo to me has a skewed [SPEAKER_01]: definition of what love and care is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mondo is so pleased by this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mondo is so, Mondo is one of those people that is so cute that you're jealous.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's not.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, like, stop it.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is grinning like, no business and it's just so happy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then Kyle is like, you know, I mean, again, not diminishing his feelings.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is what he said.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, you know, in my mind, everyone always leaves.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, my dad left, my stepfather left, and the times that I have fucked up is because I thought that I was so on worthy of our relationship that I was like, I'll just go ahead and fuck it up.

[SPEAKER_01]: Monday was like, oh, he has come a long way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And cause like, I will say this, I'm a late bloomer, but I'll catch up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, yeah, giving calls too much credit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, what, I don't, I don't know if I'm being too harsh.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that was all I was thinking was like, Monday's like, you've come along where you're doing so well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[SPEAKER_00]: And this whole time I was not at all focused on Kyle like the two things that Mondo said that maybe so happy was number one he said I'm listening to myself and he said the burden of being a parent is lifted either he said that or I wrote that down but that to me was my happiness for Mondo in this moment because I'm with you I don't think they necessarily need to be together but I [SPEAKER_00]: that in this process that Mando got that clarity because I think that's the thing that's been weighing him down all this time.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to be the parent.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to care about this other person.

[SPEAKER_00]: Love is conditional.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now he's like, I'm listening to myself and listening to himself doesn't mean he went out and became a total, I don't know what to say horror, but he didn't go wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: He just was like, yeah, I'm doing what feels good for myself regardless of what that means to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, what he said was Monday was like we're in a relationship and I just feel like there's not the burden of being a parent, but I just feel like I hope it's six through and I hope that Kyle somehow subconsciously or not doesn't guilt him or making field guilty for doing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: because he did, I think Kyle was one who mentioned like, oh, there's a possibility that he might find something attractive or whatever, but because in some way, and okay, tell me if I'm going to deep in this, is this a way of maybe Kyle again, actually, [SPEAKER_01]: othering or being dismissive of Mondo and thinking like, hmm, he's not gonna fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: When they approached me, it's me, they approached, they're not gonna approach Mondo, and he's not gonna find X, Y, Z, but now that the possibility, I think he did say that in his own words that he might find someone more attractive than me, and then he might leave me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that some form, is that under the umbrella of thinking like, Mondo was never gonna find anyone, so I felt secure in that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I don't and I don't think that's unique to Kyle.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's that's the issue of anybody that's in a relationship that takes their their partner for granted.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: I watch a whole lot of TikTok, but I've been seeing a prank one lately where [SPEAKER_00]: a guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'll see a couple in a grocery store and the woman's trying to reach something on a top shelf and this guy comes in and gets the thing off the shelf for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then he's like, oh, you know, here you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: You look so pretty today and the husband's like, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, well, you weren't helping her.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just helping her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, yes, that until you see somebody treat your partner well, you think that's never going to happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where your jealousy and your concern comes from is when you recognize that, yes, you're a partner, regardless of how you feel about them, regardless of whether you are kind of noseblind to them every day because you see them every day, that doesn't mean other people aren't gonna see them that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And until you see that, you forget.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Mondo's happy as a clam, and he says, well, this for him, I love this for him.

[SPEAKER_00]: He says, welcome to Team Kailando.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't love that though.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was stupid.

[SPEAKER_00]: Never.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't love Flipsherberg.

[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nick and Katherine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Katherine says she's had it.

[SPEAKER_01]: All the attention has been focusing on Nick's pain and she hopes that he's okay, but he just stopped doing all the things that gives him all the attention because it's like, what about my pain?

[SPEAKER_01]: Or not tells Virginia that it's impossible not to be drawn into nicks world and Virginia tells her yeah, but you have to determine what her pain is.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're in her office and [SPEAKER_01]: Katherine shares that she struggles with food and she spends her days punishing herself with it and I think we see like one in the montage.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's like on a peloton bike.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, she's exercising And she says she struggles with it and then she punishes herself and she says she spends a lot of money and then Nick is like yep, and then Nick is like now is my time to shy [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm going to talk about Catherine and it's not going to be about me so she says she went out with their daughter and she spent a lot of money like a thousand dollars and Nick is like this happens often it's not the first time everything's like a vortex.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says like he thinks that is less about his power and control and more like things that she has been struggling with and [SPEAKER_01]: In my opinion, Nick is talking for her, but not in the way that Katherine talks for Nick.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's talking about her, like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I just, like I said, it just felt like Nick was like, oh, finally it's not a mean.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to throw in as much as I can to maybe keep it on her for as long as possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she talked about how, you know, she doesn't feel enough.

[SPEAKER_01]: And in order to still trying to piece what they're saying because sometimes they're speaking, but I don't think they realize like they're not really making sense and they're not giving details and they don't realize that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or now doesn't know you, or now doesn't know your background, like you gotta give all of the details.

[SPEAKER_01]: So she says, is it like a class thing?

[SPEAKER_01]: And then she says, tell me more about your fights about money.

[SPEAKER_01]: Nick says like, listen, I play a role too in this, [SPEAKER_01]: And then he starts with, you know, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, Nick, stop doing that.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't listen long enough, I just, when people do that, I don't know thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is my problem with Patrick from Love His Mind, where I was like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I just, I get all out of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: About it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, and then casually Nick is like, you know, I used to have a gambling addiction.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, damn, Nick, there's more.

[SPEAKER_01]: Of course there's more, no like are we going to now go back to Nick because he's not wanting the attention but Loki does he want the attention of course, but he has to be honest, but you know dropping it up Episode 16, they had a gambling addiction, that's another layer that we did not know about And he had revealed that he had some kind of drug addiction before, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I do not remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, when he was younger.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And back to your original point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I got frustrated with him too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because he doesn't have a ton to say about himself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we were, you asked the last episode.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why did he go on here?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think he went on there to complain about his wife.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he went on there to be like, look at me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so wonderful.

[SPEAKER_00]: because I think in one of the earlier episodes he was upset because she spent so much money on their kids birthday party.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what he thought this was going to be about with that he was going to come in and be like, oh, women, women be shopping, women be spending money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he has a ton to say about her.

[SPEAKER_00]: but he doesn't do it in the way she does it when she says that it's insightful.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, I've seen this 360 of you and this is what I think the issue is where he's just complaining and that's not the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm almost a kissatory.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: when he says that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, he reveals he has a grounding addiction and he says he knows what it's like to want something and he knows what it's like to go through therapy and then go with the opposite way of the spectrum and be very controlled about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this gave me insight.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, this explains this attitude towards money.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he knows what it's like to lose the money and once you get a taste of it, you could just lose it just as fast.

[SPEAKER_01]: He says he thinks that it's something deeper that she needs to work through.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she says the difference is on the Iowa Ska retreat.

[SPEAKER_01]: When they had things like that, he would have hugged her, told her I love you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what she feels like they're losing.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's tearing up at this point.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, I just want warmth.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have been cold and almost aloof.

[SPEAKER_01]: And she doesn't think that she gets that from anyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, her daughter sleeps through her and she lets her daughter cuddle her because that's the only place that she gets it from.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, ah, that is not good because you are placing responsibility on a child.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know if adults know that they pass down this burden to kids [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm the reason mom or dad is smiling.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I have to be on all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that also means I have to blame why she spends so much money on her daughter is because that's where she gets her affection from.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's where she gets, you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: her love for a lack of a better word.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like she gets validated, she gets her warmth from her kid.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so to keep that going, she's going to spend $280.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a four.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's going to spend $1,000 at lunch.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's going to do the things because kids don't know the difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you know, I don't recognize that you're buying me my affection, but I recognize when I'm in your presence, good things happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to stay around you as much as I can.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's a combination of a lot of things because she did say she was I think she was poor when she was growing up and just you know trying to prove to herself that I can afford this things now and it's just I just saw a stat I don't know how true it is, but it's like shopping regulates people are shopping to regulate their emotion.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like [SPEAKER_01]: breaking news or anything, but if she's going through all this internal struggle in words like that's just the easiest way to do that It's just that it also could be a cry for attention She's looking for attention from her husband.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is the thing that gets him all rolled up and it's like he's gonna notice like hey You spend a thousand dollars.

[SPEAKER_01]: So he might be yelling at her, but at some point at least I haven't some kind of communication It's also dysfunctional [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like like what are calling Alice in jekyll and hi, like that's not nice that you're going to get some you're now You're going to get our attention.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, they need to address the deprivation and her trying to feel that whole and You know, she says she just wants to hear that she is enough They finished at therapy session.

[SPEAKER_01]: They go out and I will to his credit Nick does give her like a long hug So I don't know [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess, no, that's tough.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, maybe if I had to pick a couple, maybe them, but you remember I might be for Nick, and I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: They can't overcome it, but yeah, maybe them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote a note to myself, and I don't know if you caught this, where, uh, [SPEAKER_00]: Katherine said she doesn't feel like she's enough and then Warner said you're enough and it just felt to me like that scene from goodwill hunting where Robin William still's Matt Damon like it's not your fault.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not your fault.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not your fault.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, so cute.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but she could say that, but I don't think she's at the stage where she can receive it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or I don't think, I don't think Warner is the person that she needs to hear it from.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, [SPEAKER_01]: Big picture she needs to hear it from herself, but in this context I think she wants to hear it from her husband Maybe I mean maybe the hug that he gave her made him realize that he needs to we'll see in the next episode if they made any progress [SPEAKER_01]: There's other times where it's good where the therapy gives you different perspective and you get to see the things that you've been taken for granted, but the problem is a do-day follow-up on it and do-day act out and use tools that they've been given for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Katherine Will, I don't know if Nick Will and that is to her disadvantage because she can't repair this by herself.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also, if Nick, my biggest beef with Nick is just coming on to people who come on reality TV show and says, oh, I'm going to save this and I want to be private.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you knew that that was an intention, then go to therapy but without the cameras.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just like, that's so easy to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that was it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Any last thoughts?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm still.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go, Mondo, you do you, sir.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright guys, share with people where they can find you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you can find me traveling the world where I am now in Southeast Asia.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow our adventures on J&S.Eventures on Instagram and YouTube.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you can find me on any of the social medias, Instagram, blue sky, I sometimes live tweet.

[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm watching on thread, it is all to call M-A-F-S.

[SPEAKER_01]: Please give me a five-star rating on Spotify and on Apple Podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: And don't forget, if you'd like to support the podcast, you can support me at patreon.com slash also call M-A-F-S.

And if not, you can also just join for free and then join the community chat there and sometimes [SPEAKER_01]: Until next time, I'll talk to you then.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bye guys.