This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show presented by Hiken.

Hiking plus kinship.

That's Hiken.

Together, we roam.

Here's your host, my hubby, and cofounder of hiking, Brian Special.

Well, just imagine hiking rim to rim in a day at 92 years old.

It is the rarest of air.

So rare, in fact, there was enough for a documented Guinness World Record after Spaniard Alfredo Aliyaga accomplished it in October of twenty twenty three.

One of those along for the hike, our friend Julian Koyner, one of our group experts in our hiking Grand Canyon Facebook group.

Today, a look back on that journey and what's inspired the flip flop wearing commando going Julian to help folks across the canyon time and time again.

This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude show powered by hiking.

Hiking plus kinship, that's Hiking.

Together, we roam.

Twenty or so years ago, Julian Koyner was raising a family in Maryland.

And when the weather finally turned in the right direction, he did what he always did, set off on a cross country adventure with his son, who was eight at the time.

Little did Julian know, but this trip would change his life forever.

Every year, put him on the back of my Harley, and we'd go coast to coast, 10,000 miles on the back of a Harley, and we'd go to all these national parks.

And then we'd fly my wife and my daughter in different places just to hang out.

Well, we went to the Grand Canyon, and we were just like, oh my gosh.

I had never seen I'm from Iowa.

So, you know, pretty flat there except for Dubuque, which has their one little whatever goes up the hill.

But, yeah, it yeah.

From that moment on, I was just hooked.

And, you know, it's in my church.

It's like I want to go there as often as I can.

And now that we live here in Springdale, we moved from Hawaii about four years ago, it's like you, as many times as I can, sometimes I just wake up and tell my wife, think I'm gonna go hike rim to rim, call Trans Canyon Shuttle, get a ticket back, and there I go.

You know?

And it's I just love it.

It's my favorite thing to do in the world.

Do you remember the first time that you laid eyes on the canyon, not necessarily hiking the canyon?

You probably didn't even have that idea in your head yet, but the first time you stood there with your son, and I assume it was on the North Rim or South Rim, and you saw it for the first time?

And what what was your reaction?

Yeah.

South Rim.

And, yeah, my son was, I think, eight years old at that time, and we just stood there and we're like, wow.

Didn't even, in my mind, didn't even really say, oh, is there a hike across this thing?

I I really wasn't thinking that way.

I was just, yeah, you're awestruck.

You just can't believe that there's a hole that deep in our country.

And it is it's just amazing.

It really is.

You just can't you there there I always say there are no pictures.

There's no video.

There's no words.

There's nothing that describes the canyon until you're you're standing there looking at it, and it's just it's mind blowing, isn't it?

It truly is.

I mean, yeah.

There's not a picture that I've ever seen that represents what you see when you step there.

First time, every time.

I mean, like, 51 times for me, I know you're probably every month you were saying or what have you.

Yeah.

It's just unbelievable.

It really is.

You just can't believe it.

Yeah.

Just keeps us coming back coming back for more.

So when did you decide that, okay, I guess there is a trail down in that thing, so I I need to try this out.

When did when did that come for the first time?

Oh, it started.

You know, I'm a real estate broker.

One of my friends, Richard Demitt, said, hey.

We're gonna go to the to this ICSC conference in Vegas, and why don't we go by the Grand Canyon?

And, you know, I hiked my wife across that once, you know, thirty years ago.

What do you guys think about trying that?

Like, yeah.

Sure.

Hiked across, and from that moment on, I've I started leading trails.

I just started calling friends, clients, hey.

You wanna go across the Grand Canyon?

They're like, what?

Remember I took by the first guy one of the first guys, my niece Desai.

He was a Dunkin' Donuts guy, and he had he hadn't done hardly any hiking at all.

Now I hike.

I'm a triathlete, so Ironman and stuff.

So, you know, I'm pretty fit.

Well, he it it was funny.

I took him across.

We started at the North Rim.

He looked across, and he called his wife.

And then his wife called my wife and said, Manish is so scared.

He doesn't know what to do.

And, yeah, he was scared.

But we got across, and he he I mean, just that feeling when I got him across, just watching him come out and look across and say, I can't believe I did this.

I said, you know what?

No more taking clients golfing.

None of that kind of stuff.

Grand Canyon's for me.

This fills my heart to see them come out of a canyon and just they just can't believe they've done it.

Even, know, even when they think they're gonna do it, they get to the canyon, and then they question themselves.

And that's where I feel I come in, my experience, and letting them know, hey, it's all gonna be good.

You're gonna be great.

Yeah.

What do you hear from people?

Because it can be an extremely intimidating place, and I assume that you're doing it a lot of times, guiding people who maybe are seeing it for the first time?

Oh, a 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's it's it's funny.

You know, I build them up.

I talk to them, and hey, I'm not a commercial guider or anything.

I take friends, clients, friends of friends, and stuff like that across the Grand Canyon.

So I build them up before we get to the Grand Canyon.

So, hey.

You know, these are the types of hikes you need to do.

I just got a call from my mom's friend in Iowa.

Hey.

There there's like a group of four girls who wanna go.

I had a nice talk with them.

This is the things I think you need to do.

You need to get these hikes in.

So you build them up.

But, you know, kind of the second part that's the funnest is when you get them to the rim.

They've never been there, and then they go, what?

They don't realize, yeah, we're gonna go across this, and they get really nervous.

So you kinda you have that high of, yeah, you build them up.

We could do this.

And then we get to the to the rim, and they're, like, questioning themselves.

And it's really cool to build them back up to the to the start point at the trailhead and then getting them all the way across.

The relationships you build, the I mean, just seeing someone kind of broken to, I did this.

I I can't believe this.

I can't believe I did this.

And there's nothing better in the world than helping somebody inspire them to go, hey.

I could do I can go across the Grand Canyon rim to rim.

I could do pretty much anything.

And I think that's what they say.

They really come out and like, you know what?

I can attack life.

You know, my friend's wife, I've taken her across twice.

Both times, she had just finished chemo.

And the first time we went across, you know, she was nervous, da da da da, and it was in the heat.

So we went south to north, which is even harder.

You know, you get to right before Manzanita, you're burned out.

And then, like, I tell everybody, yeah, the the first 19 miles is this, zero.

It's the last four and a half or five miles at Manzanita or at Supaiya Indian Gardens that really the hype starts for most people because they're already tired.

And, you know, well, you know, it's that's the hardest part of the hike is the Yeah.

Last five miles.

Yeah.

It starts at Manzanita on the on the north side for sure, and definitely Havasupai Gardens on the south side.

You're 51 for 51, I assume.

Have there been any issues where you haven't been able to get someone across?

You had to call for help?

Anything like that, or do you always get them through and

No.

No.

No.

I assume sometimes you you question if you're going to be able to.

I'm sure people struggle all the time.

Well, you know, never had an issue myself or anyone that I've ever taken.

Now rescuing people, that's a different story.

You know, I've had people, devil's corkscrew, devil's backbone, whatever you wanna call it.

I remember once I was doing a rim to rim To Rim, and I came back after having a little dinner on the South and was going back to the North, and there was a girl and her friend.

Girl was laying in the middle of the trail, like, three quarters of the way up Devil's Backbone.

Eyes rolled back.

Her friend was just crying over.

Didn't know what to do.

You know?

I mean, they didn't have any water.

They had no food.

They had come down the South Rim, said we were gonna go to the river and then go back up, and they didn't.

They made it back to to Devil's Backbone, and that that was it.

So I I'm a big proponent of ThermoTabs.

I don't know if you've heard of those.

It's straight salt supplement, and you can get them buffered.

You have to get them at the pharmacy.

But in triathlon, like when I have the gray spots that I'm starting to bonk, I hit couple of these Thermo Tabs.

You chew them up.

They taste horrible.

Hit a couple goos and a bunch of water.

Three minutes later, you're alive.

You're like, oh, I could do this.

I'm ready to go.

So all the people that I've rescued along, that's what I've hit them with.

Couple thermal tabs, they chew them up.

They're buffered so your stomach doesn't get sick, and then some water and a couple goos.

And I'd tell you, five, ten minutes later, they come back to life pretty much and can continue on.

Is what I

actually gave them.

Oh, what's that?

I was just gonna say, is that what happened with this group?

Yeah.

I gave her Thermotabs this.

We sat there for fifteen minutes, gave them all the rest of the water I had because I was only going from there down to Thanacha Branch.

Yeah.

They I I assume they got back up to Indian Gardens.

I mean, she was fine.

She seemed better.

I mean, she was fine.

But, yeah, that was probably the worst one I've ever had.

Was that in the heat?

Was it felt that Yeah.

Yeah.

Direct sunlight?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, they went down earlier and then coming back up from the river, and I mean, just clueless.

They had no idea what they were doing.

I think we all have stories like that if you hike the canyon regularly enough.

I mean, I always say that when you're standing there in the village outside Bright Angel Lodge and just looking down from the South Rim, you see Havasupai Gardens.

You see Plateau Point.

You're like, you know what?

That doesn't look that far.

Yeah.

We can we can do that.

River, it's only it's only what?

Five miles five miles past the the greenery down there at Havasupai Gardens?

We can do that.

And then you go down, and it feels so easy going down, and then people forget that they have to come back up.

They don't take enough water.

They get themselves in so much trouble, man.

It's just

I got a good story for you, though, on that one.

So that was a rim to rim to rim.

And, you know, hey.

Even experienced hikers make mistakes.

I wore a pair of loose yoga pants and went commando.

Oh, jeez.

By the time I got to Phantom Ranch, I was fine.

I got to Phantom Ranch, I'm like, oh, what's going on down there?

I looked.

I was so chased.

It was cut bloody.

I mean, it was it was horrible.

But the funny part is is okay.

It was night.

It was full moon.

I had my aloha shirt on and my my my, you know, my slippers, my flip flops.

So I went butt naked just with my shirt and flip flops.

I turned up the North's Rim.

I came out.

My wife's like and I did pass a few feet.

It was dark, so, you know, they didn't really see anything too much, I don't think.

But, I mean, I could I was walking bowling.

I could barely walk because it was so bad.

I mean, it was it was horrible.

Never again will I ever try.

What's the lesson you learned on that one, Julian?

Yeah.

Wear wear the tight underwear so your thighs don't rub together.

Or any

any underwear would help too.

Right?

Yeah.

There you go.

Okay.

So you will hike in you you hike in colorful attire.

You'll hike in yoga pants.

And I know that you hike, Julian, in footwear that you know, we always hear people ask, do I wear trail runners?

Do I wear hiking boots?

What do I wear into the canyon?

You, Julian, from what I've I've been able to ascertain, you wear flip flops on your hikes.

How how long did how long how long has that been going on for, and and why the heck do you do that?

I was I've I think it's after the first time that I hiked the Grand Canyon.

I, you know, went to REI, got the coolest boots, Spent, what, two fifty, whatever.

And I hiked the Grand Canyon, I come out.

I got blisters all over my feet.

And I I brand new pair of hiking boots.

I took them.

I threw them in the trash, and my friend that I hiked across was like, man, those are $250 boots.

He pulls them out.

He still has them till today.

So, you know, living in Hawaii, you know, we're in slippas, we call them, flip flops.

And I actually brought a few to show you.

So this is called the dress slipper.

This one is leather.

Little different sole with some, you know, leather on the bottom.

Great for dress up.

These are my hiking slippers.

Oh, yeah.

Look at these.

Beautiful.

Olakai.

I love those guys.

They send me slippers every once in a while.

I don't I don't know if I ever saw a pair of Olakai's and thought and thought I would hike the Grand Canyon in them, but

I've gone every hike I do, I do this.

I did over and back, rim to rim to rim in these.

Every time I hiked, and believe me, my friends are usually behind me.

I'm leading, and people come by, and they look, and they're like, start saying stuff.

You know, they're passive people they don't think I'm with.

They're like, do you see that idiot in flip flops?

He's prob he doesn't know what he's doing.

So I love it.

I loved when they look, and they're like, flip flops.

And I'm like, what the heck?

I said someone stole my shoes down the trail.

This is all I had.

You know, I I I try to have fun on the trail.

You know, people are tired.

People are exhausted.

So, you know, I find myself as a comedian on the trail.

And, god, I remember one time I stubbed my toe.

You know, hiking in flippers can be deadly, of course, and my toe was bleeding.

So everyone I came across after that, said, oh, I just got bit by a rattlesnake.

And and and and I do sometimes carry a fake rattlesnake with me.

Of course, you do.

Friends on the trail.

I did it till a range, though.

They weren't very they were like, oh, that's not really funny.

Your feet feel good at the end of a of a hike in flip flops?

They feel amazing.

I'm I I I don't know what it is.

You know?

Hey.

I I turned fifth I turned 60 April 28.

And knock on wood, you know, a lot of my friends and I'm a triathlete too, so you think my joints are being worn out?

Zero.

I'm so lucky.

And hiking in flip flops, I think it actually makes me stronger.

My legs are stronger than most.

You know?

Being able to you know, the flexing and, you know, walking down rocks just in regular shoes coming down the North or whatever is is not easy in anything, much less, you know, in some and you got snow, ice.

I don't carry poles.

I do have some crampons that fit on my slippers.

We're doing it in March, so I think I'm gonna have to wear the the crampons on my slippers to maybe get down the South Rim.

We'll see.

Oh, what a sight that'll be.

Yeah.

No poles.

No poles.

Never.

Never.

You know what?

Sometimes I carry them just for other people.

Like, in my Most most people in my groups, half will carry them, half won't, but I don't I've I find most people are dragging them.

Their arms are exhausted.

You know?

I don't know.

Maybe I just have good balance and Yeah.

Or whatever.

I'm pretty lucky.

But, hey.

I I have a nice set of poles, and I'll put them on my pack in case somebody needs them.

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Alright.

So far, Julian Koyner has shown himself to be somewhat of a trail jester, always looking for a good time as he guides folks across the canyon.

But there's a reason for that lighthearted, fun loving approach, encouragement and distraction.

Hiking rim to rim is hard, and he thinks the more he can take people's minds off their physical and mental pain, the better hike they'll end up having.

Julian recently put all his talents to the test on a pair of rim to rims he'll never forget.

Your last two rim to rims, I'm guessing, were probably your most memorable.

Just a month apart, October 23, you served as a witness slash coach as you helped 92 year old 92 year old Alfredo Aliyaga set Guinness World Record, Alfredo being the oldest known person to ever hike rim to rim.

That's memorable moment number one.

That That had to be an incredible experience.

Wonder if all

in time.

That is number one.

But also, it has to be a close second.

Just a month later, you hiked across with your 29 year old son for the first time.

Yep.

So let's start with that one.

What was that like taking your 29 year old across for the very first time, and why did it take so long?

Well, you know, what's funny is that Alfredo did better.

He did better than my son.

My son did great.

Okay?

But, you know, going down the trail, you know, he's 29.

Oh, yeah.

He he was skipping or doing something silly.

I said, oh, you just wait.

Well, we get to Phantom Ranch.

His legs are hurting.

And I'll tell you, we headed up.

His right leg was really injured.

But, I mean, he pressed on, but I had him taking a lot of breaks.

And Yeah.

Yeah.

It was amazing for for us to be there when he was eight years old and then for him to be there and hike across.

And I did hike my daughter across.

My former wife, Maya, passed away, so I took my daughter with her ashes across the Grand Canyon 2015 or something like that.

So my daughter got to go first.

And then, you know, like I said, my son, who lives in Denver, was here for Thanksgiving, and I said, yeah.

Let's go do the Grand Canyon.

You know?

And he he's in Denver, so he does, you know, what as he says, I do fourteeners.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay, buddy.

Yeah.

You're driving up to, what, 12,000 feet.

I don't know.

Just a joke to him.

But he went across, but he was he was a little injured, and he has a big respect even a more bigger respect for me, I think, now that Yeah.

God, my dad's sixties.

I'm half his age, and he'll be 30 in February.

And he's like, gosh.

And you did it in your flip flops.

How do you, you know, how do you do that?

So

they like he learned it sounds like he learned the most valuable canyon lesson that I think there is, and that is that the downfall is in the downhill.

True?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You've got you gotta train.

Everybody thinks it's easy going down.

For me, honestly, I think it is easier, but it's not.

That is definitely where you're doing the wear and tear, the beating on your legs, and stuff like that.

Kinda tying my son together with Alfredo.

When I was hiking Alfredo across, you know, he was 92, and we're almost to the top.

I said, you know what, Alfredo?

I'm gonna get you at 93.

I'm gonna be 93, and I'm gonna beat your record.

And and I was talking to my son coming up.

He goes, dad, I'll come, and I'll be your witness and take you across this stuff.

So it was kind of a surreal moment.

And then Alfredo said, what's next year?

Like, he wants to push out my 93 '94 or something.

And and it we might be hiking with Alfredo again in October, but you know what?

They just sent this to me.

I can send you a picture of this later.

But and Annabel just sent me some photos of us on the Grand Canyon.

They wrote this beautiful little note thanking me for you know, I was supposed to be at one end and just hike across, not with them per se.

And I said, you know what?

I'll just hike with you guys, and I'll do whatever pace you need to do.

I just wanted to make sure they're safe because 92 years old going across the canyon I mean, I've had taken people across in their nineteen twenty, and they're complaining.

They're tired.

They're hot.

He never complained.

He is, I would say, my favorite hiker ever.

I mean, 92 years old.

Balance, just determination.

Just an amazing guy.

I mean, everything he's done in his life and then to culminate with this world record, hopefully, with Guinness Book of World Record to be announced here in the next few days, I believe.

No more there's nothing more inspiring than that.

You know, if you're watching this podcast or you're thinking, can I do the Grand Canyon?

You know, there's some Facebook chat groups, Rim to Rim, Grand Canyon, Rim to Rim, and a few other ones.

And you can get some good information on there.

People are very willing to talk to you about, you know, what it takes and and not just a little blurb of, oh, yeah.

You know, it's hard.

And, you know, they can actually I mean, I get calls all the time from people on those groups and, hey.

Do you mind if I talk to you for twenty minutes?

Yeah.

No problem.

Because they wanna know, well, really, what is it like?

You know, where there's some cool spots.

You like Manzanilla right after that if you're coming up from the South, and it's so hot.

You know that little waterfall right there before you get to Manzanilla on the left?

I'm always the group I bring, I'm like, okay.

It's only another ten minutes, fifteen minutes Manzanita where water is, but, man, let's get down to our skivvies, and let's jump in this water.

Let's see.

Really experience.

Shot the system.

Get up there, have some water, take a rest, and then hit the hardest part of the hike and stuff.

So

just love it.

How did the Alfredo thing come about?

Yeah.

So another Facebook thing.

So I'm on this Facebook chat chat group or what have you, and a friend of mine saw Annabelle and Jorgen post, hey.

We need a witness or some witnesses to show that my 92 year old father made it across the Grand Canyon.

They were worried because the there might have been a shutdown at the park, so they weren't sure if there'd be rangers and stuff.

So they put it out.

My friend got ahold of me that I hiked Kava Supai with in May, May, said, Julian, these guys need you.

They need you.

He's 92 years old.

You know, anything could happen.

And I I was supposed to do Ironman Tempe in October, the half Ironman race that right in that time.

And I was like, oh, there's no way I could do both of those.

I'm gonna be spent.

So took me about two days, and I was talking to my wife, and I said, you know what?

That's more important.

It'll be my fiftieth time across.

And I was planning a fiftieth time across with a bunch of friends in May, which will probably go on May again.

But I said, what better fitting way to hike a 92 year old lacrosse on my fiftieth rim to rim?

So we met, had dinner the night before.

Of course, you know, I'm a little crazy.

They're like, my god.

This guy is like, go.

Go.

Go.

Go.

Go.

But like Annabelle said in another podcast we were doing, she's like, you know, you took a lot of the weight of the worrying off my off my head because she worries and worries and worries.

And I kinda just took charge and said, okay.

We're gonna have fun.

And and the funniest thing Alfredo said, we were down.

We just come we're just getting ready to head up the South Rim Rim.

We came along the ledge there.

The the left turn to go up.

We sat there, and Annabel kept telling him, you need to eat some salt.

You need to do this.

You need to do that.

And you're not listening to me.

And Alfredo goes, what Julian says, I do it.

And she was like, okay.

I'm done.

Julian, whatever Julian says, that's what we do and stuff.

So it was just it's just amazing.

Alfredo, he's so cute.

I mean, 92 years old.

You know, we just my wife and I just got done.

Her grandmother just passed away at 98.

We moved her to Hurricane right outside of Springdale for her last sixteen, seventeen months of her life.

98.

Been to the Grand Canyon, passed out, you know, at the elevation, two ambulances rides to Kanab.

So I kinda saw, gosh, anything can happen and stuff.

So, I mean, I brought some oxygen.

I actually bought a book with anything that can happen.

You know?

And I was a lifeguard in Kauai a couple days a week for two or three years, so, you know, we had some first responder training, but you never know this, that, or whatever.

I wanted to be able to quick reference.

This is how he feels.

Okay.

What do we do?

So I kinda took it on myself, do a little research.

So I had to think about two weeks before that, before we did the rim to rim.

And he did great.

I mean, I had oxygen.

He needed nothing.

He he did take some Thermotabs, which he loved because he you you know, people cramp.

I don't know if you know this, but the reason why people cramp is they're eating on the Grand Canyon and not drinking enough.

And what happens is your stomach needs water to digest your food.

When you don't give it water, what happens is it calls to the biggest source of water in your body, your bigger muscles, your thigh, you know, all those muscles brings it in there, and then you cramp.

So he was cramping a little bit.

I gave him those thermal tabs.

Oh, he was a he was like, oh my gosh.

Because it it takes that water and distributes it with the salt and stuff like that.

So but he he was amazing.

I just I just can't believe that I took him across, and he baked goat this year again.

We'll see.

Well, I imagine he created quite a scene out there.

What do you remember remember, Rose, from the actual hike?

You know, everybody wanted to stop stop and take a picture with him and and and say, hey.

You're doing you're inspiring.

You're doing all this stuff.

The thing of it is is that, you know, if you're stopping every 15 steps or whatever, you're really you know?

God.

We need to get down there.

It took us eleven hours to get down to Phantom from the North Rim, which is that's a that's a that's a good amount of time.

The most memorable was a group of firefighters.

They stopped, and they gave him their patch.

They knew he was coming across.

They they were just looking for him the whole way.

They and they got a photo with him, gave him a patch.

And I'll tell you, all the people that were talking to Alfredo all the way across, even though it slowed him down a little bit, you know, Annabel was kinda pushing him.

Come on.

I'm like, oh, we're having fun.

You know, he's a geologist too, so he's, hey.

You know the mountain's over here.

This rock is the supine layer.

Annabel's, okay.

We understand that.

Let's keep going.

But he inspired everybody.

It was amazing.

I mean, there was young 10 year old hiking, and to see a 92 year old and people that were exhausted on the trail, to see a 92 year old come by, there's there's not a way that you can't say, you know what?

I need to get over this little bit.

I'm tired.

He's 92.

He's 60 years older than I am and stuff.

So that it was it was amazing.

It was one of the top highlights of my life, I think, seeing him do that and developing an amazing friendship with him and his daughter and son-in-law and stuff.

What was the feeling like when you guys surfaced?

Oh my gosh.

You know, we we were taking little breaks here and there.

Alfredo, though, he was go, go, go.

Man, we got to that first sign, and he'd make the right to get up to the south to him.

He's like, put his sticks up.

Yes.

I'm we're almost there.

And people are on top of the ridge cheering.

They're like, yeah.

Alfredo.

They were waiting for him.

I mean, they've done all these television programs, news stories about him.

And for him to come out and us to see them just cheering him on, he had the biggest smile to raise his his hiking poles.

I mean, there's nothing better.

A 92 year old doing this.

How did they how did he do that?

You think I would have been nervous taking him across.

I wasn't.

I got there.

I met him.

He said, oh, yeah.

So we had we met on Thursday, Friday.

Yeah.

We're gonna go for, like, a two or three mile hike.

I'm like, wow.

You never hear that from anybody, really.

He was just gonna loosen up his legs.

But, yeah, him coming out, yeah, it was it was emotional, you know, just to see him make that and and still have a smile on his face and, you know, no issues through the whole thing.

Not one issue.

The whole way through, he was happy, having fun.

It it was great.

What do you think the biggest lesson in the average person, the person who's in the Midwest or back East, the Grand Canyon looks like this impossible journey, this impossible dream?

What can they learn from what this 92 year old did?

Well, you know, nothing nothing's impossible.

The key is you have to train.

You have to it's like in triathlon.

You have a race.

You back out your training.

So your race is December 1.

Okay.

Eight months before, these are the steps I need to do to get to that point.

It just shows that you can do it.

Get off your sofa.

I mean, at that age, he even said, you know, there's three things that he said that you need to do.

You know, drink water and eat, sleep well, and hike every single day, walk every day.

You know, even if it's just to your mailbox.

You know?

Everything starts with you know, the hardest part of anything, doing anything in life is what?

Your first step out of bed.

Every after you get out of bed, you know, your your mind tells you different things when you're laying in bed.

So I always tell everybody, they're always like, yeah.

You know?

I said, don't worry about all the other stuff.

First step out of the bed.

Hit your alarm.

My alarm comes off.

It says attack life every morning.

I'm in my hot tub at 04:00 in the morning every morning for two hours.

Little Deepak Chopra for, like, forty five minutes just to clear the mind and then try to figure out, okay.

What am I gonna do?

Every day has to have a purpose.

Like going to the gym, going to hike.

If you're just going to the gym and doing this and you're not like, hey.

I'm gonna work my bicep and tricep today, or, you know, I'm gonna hike, and I'm gonna do five miles, but it's gonna be just hills.

Up and down.

Up and down.

That's how you get to where Alfredo is.

And without that, don't hike the Grand Canyon if you don't train, and don't know what the weather's gonna be, and do some research.

Because you can end up one of those people.

We had 10 last year that passed away.

I'm not saying I'm not sure what their situations was, but best bet is to be as prepared as you can.

You know, everybody says to me this is the funniest thing.

Everybody's like, Julian, do you do all this stuff?

You know, you only live once.

And I tell them, what do you mean?

You only die once.

You live every day.

So get out of bed, start doing whatever.

Walk to your mailbox first, and then say, hey.

I'm gonna walk a mile.

It all starts with that.

Anybody can group those things together and hike that Grand Canyon if they truly wanna do it.

And there's people out there, myself, you, that are willing to share their their information and their motivation to do stuff like that.

Yeah.

There's nothing better than than seeing someone come out of the canyon and they're emotional and Oh, yeah.

That place just does something to you.

Julian's guiding style is rooted in selflessness.

To him, it's not about setting time records.

It's about getting across safely and with a smile on your face.

It's a style that also relies on the power of observation.

In fact, Julian will go to just about any length to make sure his hiking partners have a successful day, even at the expense of his own ego.

You know, I fake injuries sometime.

So we'll be hiking and people like, oh, yeah.

Let's keep going.

I wanna get to the top.

But you can tell they're gonna bonk in, like, you know, another 100 or 200 yards.

So I'm like, oh, you know, I just hurt my leg.

We can we stop just for a second?

And and it's funny because we come out of the canyon, and, you know, they'll we'll see my wife when we get back to our house or whatever, and they'll be like, oh, Julian was really injured.

He we had to slow down because and she just laughs because she knows it's me faking, you know, rabbiting turtling.

You know, rabbiting when people are kinda dragging, but you know they got more, so I might go a little further ahead that makes them pick up.

Or if I think that, hey.

They're going a little too fast, I'll get in the back of the of our our group and start going slower.

And our main rule is if you can't see somebody, you slow down.

We only hike as fast as the slowest hiker.

Doesn't matter how fast or how slow you are.

The goal is everyone comes out of the canyon at the exact same time with a smile on their face.

What's the number one training tip?

Number one is I'd say you've got to do a 16 or 18 mile hike a month before just so your body goes, okay.

I did 18.

Even if it's flat, who cares?

You got some mileage in.

You know, me, I have a 10 mile hike behind my house, the Chinmi Trail.

When I do rim to rim to rim, I'll do that thirty days in a row.

10 miles every morning, getting up, get to the trailhead at four, and then hike back to my house, and my wife will take me down.

It's about a three and a half, four hour hike, primarily flat.

You gotta get your miles in.

You know?

That's how my son got tricked.

You know?

He thought, oh, yeah.

You know, I'd hike these fourteeners, and I'm doing all this stuff.

But you gotta have the mileage in.

Water, obviously, and salt and sugar.

Salt, sugar, you know, and and water are the the main things.

It's one of those three things you're lacking.

Don't get behind your water, but only drink when you're thirsty.

You know, I had in May, I hiked a group across, and the the girlfriend was drinking too much water.

I kept saying, here, take some Thermotabs.

Eat eat eat this food.

And like I tell everyone, we start the hike.

You're responsible for your own safety.

And number two, don't argue with me.

If Julian says, need you to do this, it's because I'm seeing things in you that need to be done.

She ambulance ride to Flagstaff two days in the hospital.

Too much water and what do you call that?

Hypothree treemia or something.

I'm not sure what it was.

But too much water she hadn't distributed.

And when we got to mile and a half, she got sick.

I mean, it was like Linda Blair, water.

It was unbelievable how much water was in her system.

And what did I say?

You need to take a break.

Let's sit here for fifteen minutes.

Take a little salt.

Eat a little something.

Let's relax.

But she's salt.

We're so close.

No.

She pushed, pushed, pushed, got to the top, ambulance ride to to Flagstaff.

But she's fine.

She had, I think, an underlying something also, something with her salt, her electrolyte stuff in her body normally.

But she made it.

I mean, she was I mean, I was like, we gotta take a break.

She's like, nope.

I mean, she picked up her stuff and started going off, and I'm like, okay.

So but she's fine.

Great story for later.

No one no one died.

That is quite a story.

You mentioned you've mentioned the Thermotabs quite a few times.

What what do you recommend that people consume?

Because that can be one of the hardest parts, and it's a very individual individualized part of hiking the canyon too.

I always find it incredibly difficult to stay on top of nutrition and hydration.

What do you see people do?

What do you think works best?

Well, you know, the the I don't know if it's noon or whatever.

A lot of people just take it with their water.

That's that's not for me.

I don't like the taste of that stuff in plastic.

Are those goos?

Is that what you're talking about?

No.

In the plastic you know, your bag in the back of your pack.

I don't even carry one of those.

I carry a a little thermo thing packed full of ice, and then I chew ice chips.

Like, if you're going across in July or August, there's nothing like having a whole thing of ice chips to put on your head, put down your shorts, whatever if you're really, really hot.

But, yeah, just and you gotta you just gotta, you know, one thing of water, one thing of salt supplement.

The the Thermo Tab, I just take because that's what I've always used in Ironman, and it goes straight to your system.

You know, check with your doctor.

It's straight salt.

So you get the buffered kind so it has some aspirin in it so you don't get sick.

But, yeah, I'm I'm not even up to date on what the the the thing.

Everybody has their thing.

But whatever whatever you train with, that's what you should take on the hike.

And number two, you don't have to eat a million things.

Everybody thinks, I'm going across the Grand Canyon.

Okay.

It takes, let's just say, ten to twelve hours.

You don't need to eat 10 protein bars or whatever.

A lot of people think, oh, I gotta get my calories because well, not really.

I mean, what would you do in a normal twelve hour pace?

Yeah.

Maybe you'd have one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and maybe one three bars.

But I've seen people like, oh, I've gotta I gotta have four bars on the way down to to Phantom.

You know, I like Crustables, you know, peanut butter and jelly Crustables going down and you get the Phantom, get a you know?

God, they used to have the summer sausage, but now they have beef sticks or something.

But a nice bagel cream cheese, you know, jelly.

The lemonade, we all know, is amazing.

But that's a great place to take your thermal flask that you carry on the front that you have the ice whenever you need it.

You by the time you get down, it's halfway gone, probably.

Drink your lemonade.

Rinse out your ice.

Pour the ice in there.

Get another lemonade for a dollar, and then pour that in.

So when you're going up the South, man, I got a whole another thing of ice to suck on and to, you know, keep you motivated.

Because when it gets hot, you know, drinking water out of your little bag out in the back or whatever and it's warm, you know, it's it's not the tastiest, we'll say.

I I bring a root beer with me, a little small little root beer, couple of those.

I bring a Gatorade and then use the Gatorade bottle.

Just a small one.

Use the Gatorade bottle in the streams to douse, you know, douse your head when you're if you're there in June and July and August.

You know, you gotta stay on it.

You really can't wait until it's too late because it will be too late.

Are there specific things that that you see people especially eat that seem to that seem to work that's consistent across across everyone?

Well, I like Fritos.

Tons of salt on those, pretzels.

You know, you want salty foods, potato chips.

And and I don't I don't even know what the potato chip thing is because in Iron Man, you know, you get to whatever on the run.

You have six miles left, and all of sudden, you start seeing potato chips and Coke.

Somebody had told me, and I don't know if this is true, the potato chips and the salt help the bottom of your feet with the oil and the salt and whatever.

So, you know, that's why I like Fritos, so I chew Fritos.

And, I mean, I hike in flip flops.

My feet never hurt.

And I eat Fritos.

And and the key is, you know, with your bag you don't need a giant bag if you're day hiking across.

You know, take your potato chips and smash them in your bag.

They roll them up.

It's smaller.

They don't have to be perfect bite size.

You know, eat the eat the little crumbles.

And that's what I do, and I try to show people, god.

Look at your pack.

You got all this water, all this.

Okay.

We're hiking.

Depending on which side you're going, If you're coming down the South, we got three stops before we get the Phantom.

You don't need, you know, 400 liters of water to carry past all the water stops.

Obviously, you know, you gotta know if those water stops are open or not and be prepared to filter water if you have to.

But, you know, I start out with, you know yeah.

I'm a camel, as my wife says.

You know?

I save my water for others on the trail, which is kinda funny because you always run into somebody, oh, I don't have any water.

Do you have a filter?

No.

It's like, okay.

Well, here.

Here, take my water, and, you know, be smarter next time or what have you.

I I always feel like or I feel like the the best piece of advice that I've ever gotten on doing rim to rim, it was before I I did my my first one, and you have all these questions, and you're worried about everything.

And I hear a lot of this in in what you're describing, that people think they have to carry all this stuff, all these protein bars, all this water.

But the number one piece of advice that I've got, and I'm curious what you think of it, is don't overthink it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, even even Alfredo said when he and I were talking, yeah, if you overthink that you're never gonna do anything, you know, that's called, like, I'm afraid of pulling the trigger.

Do your do your due diligence, learn as much as you can, and listen to your body as you go across the canyon.

Your mind is pretty much half of the battle of going across the rim to rim.

You're you you know, you can walk 24 miles.

Most people, if you're semi active, you know, with the elevation, it changes it.

But if you're if you think you can do it, you can do it.

You know?

You might have to rest a half an hour.

You might have to sit at Phantom for two hours.

You might have to say, okay.

I'm not gonna go up to South Rim until 03:30 or four, and I'm just gonna come out in the nighttime because it's too hot.

And I just I haven't acclimated to the heat the way I wanted.

But don't overthink it.

Just like you said, you just have to do your plan.

Try to follow the best you can.

Something always goes haywire.

You know?

You're like, oh, I thought I was gonna eat this food, but gosh, I really don't wanna eat that food.

You know?

I bring Jolly Ranchers, you know, for people on the trail.

Here, suck this.

Keeps the moisture in your mouth, and it's kinda fun little treat and stuff.

Julian seems like the perfect hiking partner.

My gosh.

Smiling, always Oh, we're doing it.

Oh, that's happening.

Have some fun.

I'm not wearing flip flops, and I'm not going commando, though,

man.

I'm Okay.

Yeah.

No.

Commando's out for me too.

What about the time of the time of year?

That's always a very important part of deciding to do rim to rim because, unfortunately, the season for rim to rim is really May 15 to October 15, a little bit longer into the fall because they keep the gate open, but services on the North Rim shut down on October 15.

The heat of the summer is really a big part of rim to rim season.

What do you find the ideal time, and is it possible for people to do it in summertime?

Well, obviously, optimum time, May 15 to June 15, or September 15, October 15, tends tends to be a little bit cooler those times, but, man, I've I've hiked it every month, but January January, February, I'm getting ready to do March this year, but it's not gonna be rim to rim.

It's gonna be South Kaibab, Phantom Ranch back to South Kaibab.

We'll probably go up towards the North Rim with Jorgen, Alfredo's son-in-law, in March.

Yeah.

June 15 through September 15.

Yeah.

It's hot.

And if you're gonna do it at that time, I mean, it's I've done it through all those months multiple, multiple times.

I actually love the heat.

I love the challenge of the mind, you know, when you're so hot and you know?

Yeah.

The summer summer's hard.

You can do it in the summer, but, boy, you've really gotta be on your water, salt, and sugar.

And if it's your first time, I'd recommend hitting those two shoulder season portions of it and and understanding what it is and then doing some training in heat.

You know?

I've been down phantom one twenty, 126, even hotter, I think.

One thirty.

That's in the shade.

You know?

Even at Supai Indian Gardens, you know, the clock there is usually in the shade, and they could say, like, 01:20.

That means if you're in the sun, you're probably 01:28, 01:30 maybe.

So you could do it, but if it's your first time, I say pick those shoulder seasons and kinda get a a good feel for what the hike really is.

What to you would make up the perfect rim to rim experience?

The whole experience from from what rim you start from, what rim you finish at, everything in between, dinner, all that stuff.

What what what's the perfect rim to rim experience for someone?

So, obviously I mean, I I really like south to north.

It's harder, but but it's just really cool coming out of the North, I think.

You know, there's so many people on the South, and I just like it that way.

So if if I if I had my brothers, I could do whatever I want.

I go to the South Rim probably two days before, go to have some dinner at have a steak or whatever over at El Tavar Hotel or whatever.

The pizza over at Massiflodge too.

I love that.

That brew pub place there is amazing.

You know, have a nice dinner, you know, two nights before the night of you know, have a salad, a piece of fish, something.

That's what I would want.

You know, do a little shopping.

And then 4AM, start the room with 50 of my best friends or 50 people that I know.

And I'm starting the list right now for May because I was gonna do 50, and I gotta go back to everyone I've hiked across, and there's pretty close to 50 people.

And I'm gonna go back and say, hey.

Do you guys wanna do this?

And then goes down the South and, you know, stop at Phantom.

You know, just a day hike.

I love day hiking.

I'm not and I like going up to some of the waterfalls and doing some of the side hikes too depending on when I wanna come out.

It's never about a time for me.

Everybody's like, oh, well, how fast did you do?

If you're talking about time to go across the Grand Canyon, you you you don't really don't understand what the Grand Canyon's about.

Sure.

You wanna come out, you know, twelve, fourteen hours because after that, it starts to get to be a little much.

But you can see everything day hiking across, but, you know, don't worry about the time.

Just worry about the experience.

Stop and take a photo when you want and ask questions.

Figure out what it is.

People on the trail are more than willing to to talk and and share their experiences and stuff.

And then, you know, a dousing you know, stop at Phantom Ranch, obviously, have my lemonade and bagel cream cheese and what have you.

And then right before you get out to, you know, Manzanita, definitely a swim in the waterfall there on the left hand side.

God.

That water's ice cold, but, boy, you come out of that and you go, okay.

No.

I've got I've got five miles to go.

This is nothing.

It's what most people say until they start up that first that first incline.

And then come out, you know, obviously stay on the North Rim at the lodge, have dinner there.

And then on the way back, stop at Jacob Lake, get their cookies.

They're the best.

Probably a milkshake.

You know, take the shuttle back back around or what have you.

I mean, to me, that you know, and everybody's safe.

I mean, that's the most important thing is, you know, hey.

We're let's hike the Grand Canyon, but let's all be safe, and let's be responsible because, you know, when you put your life in danger going down into the canyon, the canyon could give you a lot of different scenarios.

You're not in charge.

If you think you're in charge, you're not in charge.

The candidate is in charge of the whole hike.

If it's gonna be hot, if it's gonna be this, that, or whatever.

And your body, it's like triathlon.

You get to the start line.

The hardest part is getting to the start line, but you never know what that day will bring for your body.

You can do all the training you want.

Just be prepared.

Last couple of things.

Just what would you say to someone who's enamored with the idea of doing the canyon?

Maybe they're hanging out in the Facebook groups.

They're seeing everybody's stories.

It's so exciting.

It's so inspiring.

They're enamored with doing it, but they're not sure if they have what it takes.

What would you say to those people?

Put it out to the universe.

First thing you do is say, I'm gonna do this.

Tell as many people as you can, because what will they do?

They'll hold you accountable.

They'll say, well, you said you were gonna hike the Grand Canyon.

To me, that's motivating.

Maybe some it's not, but I think first thing to do is just to say, I'm gonna do it, and then back in, what do I need to do to get to that point?

You know, you don't say, hey.

I wanna do it, and then do it in a week.

That that doesn't work.

Hey.

I'm gonna do it like this person from the Facebook chat called me.

Hey.

Do you mind if I call you for twenty minutes?

They're gonna go in October.

I said, okay.

That's smart.

You know?

May, if you haven't done any training, if you live in the cold weather, you say you're gonna get out, you're probably not because hiking in cold weather is you know, if it's icy and da da da da da, you know, go for May.

That gives you plenty of time to back that in.

You do do do all these five mile hill repeats and and whatever else.

But I think the first thing is just say you're gonna do it and pick a date.

Just pick the date.

Everything all it's like in life.

If you say I'm gonna do this, normally, your mind leads you to what you wanna do.

If you're saying my intention is to do this that's why I listen to Deepak in the morning.

I love setting my intention of what I wanna do for that day and try to figure out, well, how do I accomplish it later?

First thing is just to say you're gonna do it.

Do the training.

You can do it.

I mean, I think, hey, 92 year old could do it.

Anybody can do it.

If you're sitting on the sofa, get off the sofa.

Alright.

Last thing, Julian.

Yep.

When it when it comes to the Grand Canyon, real simple.

When it comes to the Grand Canyon, what's your why?

Other people.

Now.

I mean, it started just that I wanted to do it.

Now it's all about others that I can share this experience with.

It fills my heart.

I mean, everybody has something that they do that makes them feel good about themselves.

And for me, it's that last moment when we get to the top and they look across, and they're like, Julian, you were right.

We did it.

And and and not even more so right there because they're so tired.

They're like, oh, this is great.

The next day when you go back out on either rim and look across and they're like going, how did I do that?

The joyful adventures of Julian Coiner.

Well, coach Arne channels his joy in far different ways.

For coach, it's the physiology that provides the fuel, and this time he's talking about what I personally think is one of the most important Grand Canyon hiking tools there is.

Today, we wanna talk about proper pole use.

That means hiking poles.

And two quick things on hiking poles.

One, they are a game changer.

And two, poor pole use can wreck your trip.

That's right.

They can wreck your trip.

So let's start off with a couple of simple things here, like setting up the poles.

I like to I like to have my elbows at a 90 degree angle, and that way my wherever my poles hit at that point, that's a good spot for most people.

But you gotta have to kinda play with that, but a 90 degree angle of your elbows.

And then I like to use heavy heavy tips on the bottom of my poles, and you can get these heavy duty pit tips on Amazon.

I think they work great, and they can give you a nice grip and stuff.

But, again, that's my own preference.

You need to kinda go what works for you.

Now let's look at some pole use here, what they're for.

First of all, they support good posture.

They don't make you have good posture.

They support good posture.

Okay?

That's super important.

What does that mean?

Chest up, shoulders over your hips, whether you're going downhill or uphill.

So you're gonna have to learn what that looks like.

Maybe have somebody watch you.

And so but that proper posture.

And if you learn proper posture and use your poles to support that, you are gonna have a much better trip.

Your poles will be used the way they're supposed to, and it's gonna take that pressure off your legs like you wouldn't believe, And you're gonna just feel so much more energy, and that's super important.

Alright.

Next, leaning let's remember that leaning on your poles, you know, going downhill is a recipe for disaster, and that's what I see from a lot of people.

You don't want remember what we just talked about.

Remember, good posture.

Remember, supporting good posture.

So going downhill, leaning on those poles is not a good thing to do.

So we gotta work on that.

And how do we do that?

Well, here's the big tip.

The big tip, practice with your poles a lot.

It's what I do.

I'm out there every weekend using my poles.

Why?

Because I wanna become a pole expert.

I want to be able to use my poles in situations where it's tough.

And I wanna know that I have good technique, and I'm using my poles properly.

Okay?

And the only way to do that is practice, guys.

I'm telling you.

Proper pole technique comes through practice.

I hope this helps.

Get out there and practice with those poles.

I love you, and I'll talk to you later.

Coach Arnie, Arnie Foncica Junior, our group's exercise physiologist and canyon coach.

If you missed it, his number and his contact information are in the show notes.

Well, watch that heat, folks.

It's July, and the high temps on the seven day forecast at Phantom this week, well, they sound like this.

Ready?

One eleven, one thirteen, one fifteen, one fourteen, one fourteen, one fourteen, and one fourteen.

Yeah.

That's a a hard pass for me.

If you're hiking this time of year, well, take it seriously and make heat mitigation your number one priority.

Your life or the life of someone in your group could very much depend on it.

Alright.

That's it for now.

My name is Brian Special encouraging you as always to go hike the canyon.

Take that first step.

Embrace the journey.

And when you get there, whether it's for time goals or taking your time, just hike your own hike and enjoy one of the seven natural wonders of the world, the magnificent Grand Canyon.

We'll see you next time on the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude show powered by Hiken.

Hiking plus kinship, that is Hiken.

Together, we roam.

This is the Hiken Podcast Network.

Look for new episodes of the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude show on Wednesdays, Tales From Below on Fridays, and hiking meditations in my separate show, Sacred Steps on Sundays.

Hiking.

Together, we roam.