In this episode of the miniseries, I chat to Sara, Anissa and Anton from the UWC Southeast Asia in Singapore, and Gabby and Satya, alumni of UWC Atlantic College in Wales, about their experiences on the new IB Systems Transformation Pathway.

This is a really exciting pilot as part of the IB 16 Plus Review and pioneered with United World Colleges to enable transformative change systems leadership and making the world a fairer place for the future.

Find more links to further information about the pathway in the show.

My name is Antong.

I am 17.

I come from China.

Great.

Good to meet you.

Hello, my name is Sarah, I am 17 as well and I'm from Azerbaijan.

Hi, Sarah.

And then lastly.

My name is Anissa, I am 18 and I'm from Tajikistan, Central Asia.

So firstly, how would you explain the thing that you're involved in the systems transformation pathway to somebody who's never heard of this before?

So Systems Transformation Leadership for Change is the full name of the course.

This course is part of the International Baccalaureate program.

It runs for two years.

The main idea is that you learn 5 different skills.

They include systems thinking, design thinking, change maker mindset.

Project.

Management, project management and leadership and the way you learn this is through a set of different projects.

These projects pertain to real world issues and the general workflow is in which you analyze the system and then you identify key stakeholders, map them out in a visual manner and then through which you can find certain leverage points where you can achieve large change through a small modification.

And then and then I take one key difference with this compared to other courses that you actually make this change and you make this process for many different projects.

So we're currently working on our own individual projects where we have full agency over what we do.

Previously we have done some teacher LED projects such as one with MALA and refugees as well as one with the environmental sustainability.

So I would say for me, this course is quite interdisciplinary, which is a lot of links with different subjects and you do not necessarily have to have any background information before coming here.

It kind of gives you a real world applications of many courses that you might take from humanities to sciences.

And I think this is what kind of makes this course different, that you may apply your knowledge from normal classroom to the real world issues that you are we are facing currently in our world.

Well, thank you guys.

I think similarly, I believe systems transformation is a course that provides you a safe space to go into the real world and to make the change that you really want to make, to have this leverage point in any system, whether it is something related to sustainability, peace building, something AI or anything related to UWC mission as we are in UWC school.

And personally, for me, I think being part of systems is an ability to pursue the mission to make education force to unite people, nations and cultures for peaceful and sustainable future.

Because by itself, the course in a cluster and we are people from very, very diverse backgrounds.

And having those minds who have experienced different things, who have been raised under different circumstances in one place, having them think together.

Working groups collaborate and go into the real world and discuss how to leverage specific points in order to change one thing in a system and to make a positive impact in the community and also in a global scale.

In the long run, this is what systems thinking against it is a place for change makers.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

That's amazing.

And you've already started kind of straying into the next question, but I'll ask it anyway.

But let's think a bit more deeply about what are the significant differences that you feel between STP and the other courses.

I mean, you've mentioned the interdisciplinary angle, which is great.

Perhaps you could think about some other different aspects of what makes it a different kind of experience.

And that's not just in the content, but it also might be in the way that the course is taught or the way it's assessed.

I think that comparing it to my other subjects, it is in a way I would say quote UN quote, chill there.

But at the same time it depends what you're working on because comparing it's supposed to economics.

In economics there's obviously a lot of diagrams and you are able to cram for an exam the day before or the week before and the result is short term.

Of course you'll take an exam and that's it.

But I think that is not possible for systems thinking.

Systems thinking actually requires a lot of engagement in the subject.

It requires you to be active, to ask questions, to collaborate with others, and to reach out to people in the field throughout the course, starting from day one to the day when you hand in your assignments.

So your presence and your participation is very, very important, right?

So I would give a specific example from my biology course.

So we usually talk, for example, about ocean certification.

We say why it happens and what are the sources.

And usually we do not talk about how to solve it.

We just generally say, so we should reduce our carbon emissions, but how exactly are we going to do it?

So I think this is when the systems transformation course comes in, it gives you the understanding of, so there are other factors that play a role, policymaking, maybe loss in the country, something where you map out the whole system of this ultra specification thing.

You understand that it's not only about reducing your carbon emissions but also changing the mindsets of people about the issue.

So I think this is how this course is quite different.

It gives you more specific details about how to solve the issue aside from just saying that.

So this is how the system works.

This is our issue, but how do we solve it?

Amazing.

I think I'll have another example.

So imagine you're studying about climate change.

For example, in chemistry class, you would study how you use this combustion reaction, which is exothermic and boils water, and this reaction releases CO2 and because of its absorption spectrum, it increases the Earth's temperature.

But in systems transformation, you're forced to adopt A far more interdisciplinary perspective into the issue.

So you'll consider the economic and political aspects as well as social specs, for example, regarding public perception and the cost of living associated with transitioning to renewable energies.

I would say some other differences are that so #1 there's this course takes four blocks per week compared to two or three blocks for any other subject.

So we actually have a far longer time in the classroom than in other subjects.

Another one is that even though basically any subject, while you're learning the theory, you also have applications such as even in chemistry, you you'll learn about the applications of what you learn, but it's not the forefront, it's not the main emphasis in system transformation.

However, the application is the starting point from which you use the theory to do the application.

I think another one is the ability to have individual agency in the in your course.

There is no set syllabus or anything you you really like do your own thing.

And last year I think given that we're doing real projects, there's also a real sense of uncertainty in what we do.

I think those are the key differences.

Oh, that's, that's an amazing range that you've covered.

No, thank you.

Could you maybe just briefly talk about have you felt any differences?

Because obviously all the approaches you've described there are fascinating.

But then, as you said, and you saw about the economics exam and that, you know, everything gets crunched down into a standardized exam, and that's normally how things roll in different subjects, right?

So what's the reality in this situation where actually then you have to take some of those different kinds of approaches and then be assessed on them?

So how does that feel?

I think personally like if you don't guys don't mind for me, the systems transformation exam which we had like a case study day.

It was an entire day exam where first half we worked in a group of people that we already felt comfortable working with.

We knew the different approaches and strategies that those people used.

And then towards the end we used all the skills that we have learned throughout the course in order to design a policy or like to recommend any intervention for the system.

So like personally for me, as I mentioned before, since there's a lot of engagement and you need to participate in the class in order to do well and to understand what the course is about, I think that the exam felt like a regular class.

It wasn't that exam where you sit.

There's a time, of course, there was a like time restrictions, but at the same time, it didn't felt like my exam in economics or in politics where I was stressing out like thinking whether I would be able to finish the exam on time.

It was more, again, quote UN quote, chill and relaxed as you are interested in the course and you're interested in the case study or in the material that you're engaged with.

So I feel like it was in a way enjoyable and it felt like a regular class and engagement with peers.

Amazing, first time I've ever heard the word chill and exam in the same sentence.

True.

Yeah, that's true.

I would say that during the case study assessment day, there is still in like a small amount of stress and time pressure that at least that I felt because at the end of the day, this still affects the final mark that you're going to get.

And the final mark plays a huge role, especially given that it gives you like 2 of your subject slots are taken by this one single system transformation subject.

So I would say I still feel the stress.

I think maybe your experience is different, yeah.

Yeah.

No, that's great.

Can I ask how does it feel too?

Because you say the first half of the case study day, you're in a group.

So that means you're being assessed as a group or you're being assessed individually within a group.

So how does that feel and how does you know?

How did you experience that?

So I would say that when we were having the case study, I actually felt like a real change maker.

I was so engaged into the issue that I was having and it wasn't feeling like an exam.

Actually, for me, I would say it was the same experience that I was solving an issue.

And this understanding of the fact that there is no right answer, there is just an intervention that might work or not work in this case.

And it is so fascinating the fact that we've worked in the group.

Yeah, We were assessed like as an individual, but within the group, because if you want to be a change maker, it's a lot about teamwork.

If you cannot engage with different perspectives of people, their interdisciplinary approach, then it is not going to work for you as a change maker.

And I think in our interconnected world, it is so much important that we can work with each other.

So I feel like this kind of assessment was very, very helpful for us.

All right, love it.

So then you spoke a little bit about any so about the UWC mission and the fact that you have connected your experience of the course and your maybe your meaning and purpose about this course with the UWC mission and that's fantastic.

And this is also then going to become a course in lots of other schools around the world potentially.

And, you know, many different countries, many different contexts, most of them not UWC schools, and many of them maybe not having the same level of resources like access to, you know, networks that you might have.

So imagining yourself in those kinds of contexts, can you think of any advice you might give to young people in those contexts or even to teachers or schools, school leaders in those situations taking on this course?

I might start with the fact of like embrace your culture.

Your background is something very important in this course.

There are no actually boundaries of so you have to do this exact issue.

You have to solve the food waste issue in our world, No, think of something, for example, if you are from rural area, why don't you just work with the rural system, education system and then you may try to kind of change it.

So every background information and every value that you have within yourself can be connected to this course.

And so I would advise the person don't try to be anyone who you are not.

If you have a certain background information, a certain passion, anything, try to embrace it and proceed with it as because if you are more connected to the issue, then you may be much more passionate to solve it rather than on doing something that was assigned to you by teachers.

It is also very important to be empathetic towards people and understanding that how might your intervention affect people, why it might not work for a certain group or you should consider every single point.

I sometimes feel like we see them more as part of the system rather than the humans behind it.

And of course you have to do sacrifices, but you should understand that.

What are the effects of your implementation and why might it work or not work in your context?

Yeah, great.

And I guess you're you are also part of the system, right?

The system is not separate from you, correct?

So every person who enters the classroom has like a unique skill set based on not only the subjects they take, but also other skills such as communication and collaboration.

I would say that it's important to, first of all, be able to recognize what those are, and 2nd, be able to understand how to apply them.

So I guess for a personal example would be that I chose my final project to be related to climate change and environmental science because I am familiar with it.

I'm also familiar with things like music, and I used that in one of my other projects as well.

Regarding the sustainability, I think that overall you should be able to recognize your strengths and then if you have any like things that you're not really good at, that's where the teammates come and help you fill those gaps.

Yeah.

Can I just add on onto that?

Please.

Yeah.

I have 3 advices that I would have loved to hear if I joined this course.

But for those who are out there listening to this podcast, my first advice is know yourself, the guys already mentioned, know your background, know your passions, know what you're interested in.

Because I think that personally for me throughout this course, at the end of the day, when now I'm working on my individual project, the reason why I chose to do something related to sustainability and creating the Mini blue sea is because I myself, I'm interested in sustainability and I want to do something.

I want to transform the system of the way people think about it and the way people design courses on sustainability.

So knowing yourself, know your strength, know your weaknesses and know what you're interested in, that is the first step.

Second step, start small.

Don't be afraid to dream big, but at the same time, don't be afraid to start small.

Starting small, especially in systems transformation, thinking in systems and working in systems, you actually understand that after mapping the system map, engaging with stakeholders, getting your quantitative and qualitative research, you understand that perhaps the leverage point is just that one little thing that you need to transform and that will have the ripple effect on the entire system.

So systems transformation is not about setting out another Paris agreement or creating another space shuttle.

It's not about that.

It is about understanding what the leverage point is and starting small because it is just like in butterfly effect, it is those small actions that make the big difference.

And 3rd and most most important, stay connected.

In this age of where technology so developed and we are so connected with each other, it is important.

Go on LinkedIn, go on WhatsApp, Instagram, any platform you want.

There are so many change makers, so many people who have taken systems transformation and people who are willing to help.

Reach out to those people.

Reach out to the change makers in the field you're interested and reach out to big organizations and the same time individuals like who may be younger or older than you.

You never know what the result is and what the end goal would be like.

So just be brave, take it courageously and make a change.

Great advice, I love it.

That's brilliant.

And so, for example, you talked about biology, you talked about economic, right?

Teachers get trained in biology and economics, right?

They've probably got a degree in biology or a degree in economics and they come in, you know, they come in to teach the thing they learn, right?

There aren't a lot of people.

And Ivan's pretty special.

There aren't a lot of people.

Who?

Have deep knowledge and experience in systems transformation as teachers, right?

So that's also a challenge for the IB and for, you know, for us thinking about this kind of work.

What have you noticed about the way that your teachers come to this?

Or how is it, you know, in terms of your relationships with the teachers as you're learning, you know, learning with them maybe?

I think that personally for me, since I take double humanities, I take economics and global politics.

Systems transformation weaves very well into those subjects.

For example, I can bring an example when we were talking about like the historical aspect of any war or global politics class.

I can definitely like about any effort at the element of systems into it and like always thinking in the long run, because that's what we aim to do in systems.

We always think.

So if that government does this or if this intervention is being done or if those tariffs are being in place, what is the long run effect on all the stakeholders involved?

And I think that being a student who takes systems in those classes makes those conversations even more richer and even more diverse because it, in a way adds another lens to it, a lens that is not included in the textbook and a lens that you learn through kind of exloring the system, through having an experience there.

So in a way, I think that's has an impact.

But for my econs class, my teacher himself, he worked in the ESG department.

So he has an understanding between like the interdisciplinary ratio of economics and environmental studies.

So I think that class, being that class was a great place to further develop and enhance my understanding of the things that I want to do in the future and those conversations that I had with my teacher, the way that he understands me.

And that brings me back to your point that it would be really, really important and really, really rewarding to have not only students studying this course, but at the same time any teacher in IB having this foundational understanding of what systems thinking is so they can kind of pass it on to the students.

Great point, Yeah.

OK, I think I want to add that the role of the teacher is also a bit different in the course, and I think there are like a few concepts from scientific pedagogy that I can apply here.

So there's like a old theory called Objectivism where the teacher just gives information to the student to learn.

And that feels much like reading from a textbook.

But I feel like in system transformation, they're not really like a sort of like purveyor of information, but instead it's more like a facilitator of learning.

I would say that this fits better with the nature of system transformation as a whole because the nature of the our project is that we're going to know some things that a teacher doesn't.

And same thing with the teacher.

And I think because of this, instead of the teacher just giving information to us, they instead facilitate a sort of self powered growth and develop and that is really valuable and not really seen as much in other courses.

Amazing.

I would say that since I take a lot of sciences, I had two sciences, but the teachers usually look at this course with a bit of suspicion as I see it, because it is something new and something that nobody knows about.

Even I struggled at first to link it to my sciences because I thought that systems transformation is more about humanity.

It's about how you can go into government and then do something.

That's what I thought at first, but then I realized that this course taught me how to ask right questions at the right place, how to approach the teacher and how to actually get the information that you need and get the most from the lessons that you have.

So when I have a very difficult topic that I'm working on, it looks so complex and I do not understand even how to approach it.

This course let me understand that it is OK when something is very difficult, you should just map it out, divide it to small parts and see which part is the most impactful one and where you should start.

So I think that's how this course not only helped me with my understanding, but also like it helped me to even explain it to teachers that you know, it can be linkable and it's not such a suspicious thing similar.

Great, I love it.

I also want to add that not only does it like teach us to like embrace this sort of complexity and be able to analyze complex systems, for example, like in a complex system, like I would use a climate change example, without the tools from system thinking, I wouldn't even know where to begin because of like how complex, multi faceted and nuanced it is.

Another aspect of it, I think in system transformation is how it allows you to embrace uncertainty in that you don't necessarily know what impact your actions will make.

This is very different from like other courses, of course.

I think this is also why, like in one of the assessment objectives, you need to write an impact report, but it is not assessed based on how much impact you make or rather on your ability to analyze that impact.

So I think the nature of the assessment itself demonstrates this mindset of embracing the uncertain.

So yeah, the course allows us to recognize and I think appreciate complexity and uncertainty in a way that it's very transferable to other things.

I also had the great pleasure of chatting with Gabby, a member of the original Pioneer cohort at UWC Atlantic College who really helped to shape the pathway, which you'll hear her and Satya call.

The STPI started by asking her to describe her overall experience on the course.

So I think in a general overview, my experience with the STP was so transformative.

It just, it was just a big shift for me because I'm from Brazil and in Brazil we cannot even choose our subjects, let alone choosing someone that is that different than like innovative.

So in Brazil we just take about 18 subjects.

So everyone has to take everything from sociology to geography to math to physics.

So we actually don't have any time to go in depth into anything because we just have so much to cover.

And this everything is just so surface level.

So when you, you turn to the IB that you can actually just choose to specialize in six things and you get really good at those six things.

And when you go to the SDP, which is completely different from anything even the IB has ever seen, it was just so transformative for me.

I think that's the word.

But just in general, such a big, a big change for me.

And it made me see education in a different way.

And it even like right now I'm in university and it even inspired me to study education at university.

So that's something I'm really excited to understand more because I think not only access to education, interest, formative education, but just in general how you create education, how you Co create education was something that they, the SDP really made me think about in a way I've never thought about before.

So even in our quote UN quote lectures, there was only 6 people in my impact area.

The teacher was really with the mindset of just collaborating and helping us understand something rather than just like lecturing at us.

It was just him with his expertise and just more knowledge than he we had on the topic, just trying to share with us and trying to connect that with our best experience and our individual understanding of things.

So I don't know, it was just so different.

It felt very collaborative, even with the teachers, even with with Maria, who was behind everything.

I feel like we had agency and education the way I've never thought I I could have in high school.

Amazing.

Could you just say a little bit about the impact area?

So particularly like which impact area did you choose and then what did others choose?

What was available?

How did it kind of structure out the the overall course?

Yes.

So IOWC, Atlantic, in my first year, we had migration, energy, food and biodiversity.

I was in biodiversity.

But the way we did it was we just studied together.

We had sort of like the core classes all together for about a semester.

And then by the end of that semester we were actually divided into impact areas.

So we we had both like a sense of sort of like general collaboration with everyone.

We're close as a group for everyone, but then also we had the opportunity to meet with people in our bacteria because we come from, especially when you think about biodiversity, the people in my group, there were people who have already worked with biodiversity before.

There are people who were environmental activists, there were people who came from big cities.

There are people who came from a farming background.

So we all had valuable experiences that we could share, but they needed to sort of like connect into a more, I would say, technical lens.

So we had our teacher who was much more knowledgeable in biodiversity than any of us.

So he would introduce some key important things that it would just not necessarily in terms of an intervention or or changing the world, just not yet, just understanding more about biodiversity.

So he was teaching us about the IUCN, which is the International Union for Conservation of Nation.

So we would understand sort of like what the IUCN does and how they classify species into different categories depending on how endangered they are.

So it was just understanding sort of like this technical lens and learning about sovereignty and learning about different case studies.

We saw a case study in Oceania and no one was from Oceania.

So it's very a very diverse perspective and international perspective on that.

So on the first sort of like first weeks, it was everyone separately just understanding more about their bacteria.

And then from there we could collaboratively help each other, have our own individual intervention in our own country, and then after that, our collaborative.

Yeah, fantastic.

So that that concept of the intervention was obviously a key thing.

So what firstly, how did you kind of come to understand the idea of intervening in systems like, you know, even that language that is being used?

So how do you understand that now?

Yes.

I think coming back to our core classes when everyone's together, we're not divided into bacterias.

I think we learned a lot about surviving the technical systems thinking, not skills, but maybe like the modules we had and like the knowledge we had about leverage points and about we had like power diagrams to understand power dynamics and where our power like is in the system and what kind of like powerful stakeholders we should start contacting.

And then we also had some interviews we had to make with, I think it was 5 stakeholders from different perspectives.

So that was literally forcing us to go out into the system.

So I appreciate that it was not only very technical and thing that we were just understanding some words and trying to apply the words to our home content, but we were actually just like going out and talking to people and scheduling calls and visiting people and actually just like doing our research with the community and understanding what they needed.

So because I was doing biodiversity, I talked to so many different people from people in the local government to people in the local university, from people in the local businesses who live from quote UN quote, exploiting biodiversity.

So how do we understand all of these different perspectives and what do they think that the community itself needs to be more sustainable?

Like what do they think is liking?

So I think that combined to the knowledge and systems thinking and understanding, which leverage points, they're trying to talk to me about that combination of both.

I think that was powerful to understanding what we actually needed.

Yeah, amazing.

And then so that kind of surfaced a recognition that you had of some kind of let's say need or opportunity or opening where you where you decided you then wanted to intervene in the system.

So could you talk a bit about what did that lead to for you specifically in terms of your intervention?

And then like even just how are you reflecting on that now?

Like did it work in inverted commas?

I mean whatever that might mean in terms of your systems intervention and and what did you learn from that experience?

Yeah, so it was interesting actually, because when I was doing my research, I had a little bit of discrimination against education projects because I was like, I'm not just going to raise awareness.

Like I need to do something.

I need to work in like conservation.

I actually need to make a change.

So I I was sure I didn't want to raise awareness or anything like that.

I thought that was not that important.

But then when I was started to interview the stakeholders and talk to them, something that literally everyone was bringing up was that, Oh yeah.

But like, our children right now don't know anything about biodiversity.

So like people from like the local universities, I was talking to her a little bit about some problems we have with sort of like wind turnbikes.

And then she was saying that like, children don't know what that is.

And that's so true because in Brazil, our education system has a common, like, curricular base for everyone in the whole country.

So if you live in a very regional Biome that only exists in that specific part of Brazil, which was my case, you're not going to learn about that because that doesn't make sense for someone who lives like miles away.

They don't have the same biodiversity.

It's like that's just not going to be in the curriculum at all because they don't need these local nuances and the educational system.

So how's the next generation supposed to even know what they have to care about?

So that was something I started realizing that, OK, maybe, maybe education with some like younger children would be helpful, but I had no idea about what I was going to do.

I was trying to brainstorm every class and it just, it was just not coming to me.

And then I scheduled a meeting with my teacher.

I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do, please help me.

And then which is what I'm like, it's so Co designed, so collaborative, even with our teachers.

Like I've like the teachers genuinely, at least at UWC Atlantic, they really want you to succeed and want you to do what's most effective for your system.

So it was so nice that I was talking to my teacher and we came after a long conversation to the conclusion that it would make sense to have sort of like a collector's item, sort of like something that the kids could just like look for and collect and have like sort of like Pokémon cards, but not quiet.

We were thinking of something like and then I was thinking about that idea a little more and I came to to the final idea, which is I don't know if I've ever seen like the 5th Soccer Singer albums.

Yeah, I used to have them when I was a kid, Yeah.

Yeah, it was because Brazil is massive on football.

So we're like, Oh yeah, maybe the kids already like that kind of thing.

We could just shift it to bio different.

So we did that because the biodiversity sticker album.

So basically what we did was for the rare stickers.

The rare stickers were being dangerous based on the IUCN beautiful.

And then the design was which is a, a very traditional local design for art.

So it was, it was both combining local art and also local biodiversity.

And then as you go forward in the book, there's going to be according to the IOC and sort of like critically endangered and whatever.

And then that not only represents how difficult it's going to be for you to find the sticker, but it also represents according to the IOC and how difficult it is for you to find the animal itself in real life.

So giving the kids this idea, they're like, oh, if you don't have the sticker, probably because we don't have that in the wild anymore.

And, like, how do we get that sense of like, urgency for our species that we're losing?

How amazing and reflecting on it now, like where do you feel like you grew and really learned kind of new competencies that you perhaps wouldn't have done if you'd been in a standard Brazilian school or in, you know, in a, in a more traditional school?

I think something that we all agree on is that SCP is really stressful.

It's such a learning experience.

It's such a empowering, transformative, amazing thing.

Like it's something that absolutely anyone should consider doing because it's it just changes you in such an amazing way.

But it's so stressful, it's so difficult.

It's very demanding.

And I think that's something that happens so differently even from when I think about university now, because when I have something demanding for university just means I have a three thousand word I say do in a week.

That doesn't mean that like I need to go any further than just like sitting down and do it.

But an STP is not just about sitting down and do it because we literally had essays, like full essays that we had to write with six people.

So how do you write an essay collaboratively?

Like it was a report of like a work that all of us did.

So all of us had to approve everything that was written because it was our report about our intervention.

So how do you find a time that works for everyone?

Or how do you just separate different paragraphs that everyone can write a little bit about?

And how do you make the design look nice?

Because it was a report, so we wanted it to look nice.

And then it just takes three times that, like the full amount of time that you actually would just do if you just did it fully alone.

So it was a bit stressful.

It was, it just taught me so much about collaborating in that sense because I've never had to cooperate that deeply with people to the point that I had to like write reports with them and just meet after class.

So often find times that works for everybody.

So I think and not only for our bacterias, but even when we were in the in the core mall just before we were in the bacterias, that's something that they were really emphasizing that basically I think I don't know, 70% of our homework would always be collaboratively.

So either in groups of four or groups of 6.

So not only had the opportunity to meet different people who are taking different other four classes outside of SDP and would end up in different impact areas because they had different priorities than I did.

So it was just such a diverse experience and every group would be so different in every way that we would work in every way that we would meet up or just divide work on our own.

And I think that really helps you just real life in general.

Because when you go to real life and you have a real job, you're going to have to cooperate with people, even if you don't like them, even if they have different priorities from you, even if there's just so different, you have to collaborate with them and you have to find a way just meet them somewhere to agree on what you're going to submit to the teacher, for example.

So I think it would be help.

Yeah, amazing.

And just could you just say because those projects were not just as part of the learning, but they were actually also assessed formally assessed pieces, right, those some of those collaborative pieces were actually part of the formal IB assessment.

So how how did you feel about the assessment part of it?

I think when I think about these assessments, the first thing that comes to mind was our case study, because those are most intense.

I don't even know if I can call it an exam because it wasn't quite an exam.

I don't know what it was, but it was an assessed piece of work that was very intense.

It was it was hours and hours.

It was from the morning all the way to the end of the afternoon.

We had a lunch break and that was said, but basically we're thinking deep and deep and deeper into a case study and we're learning about it and study about it.

But then by the end, we're building up the blocks to finally analyze the stakeholders.

But the way we analyze the stakeholders, because it's SCP, it's obviously just not going to be a paragraph about your stakeholder.

But we were in groups.

It was four people, each one of these people from a different impact area.

So it was so interesting that we could literally have a case study seen from 4 different lenses, like someone thinking about the biodiversity, someone thinking about energy.

So it was just so rich.

But then by the end, we had to assign each person a stakeholder and record a video explaining the, how the stakeholder sort of like relates to the entire system.

And then you would imagine that it would be so stressful, like we would be blaming each other.

But then I think because it was later on in the course and we were so connected, we were friends, we had built this whole thing together.

So I, it was so beautiful to see that we're all just collaborating.

We're all like, oh, you got this.

No, it's OK, we can do it again.

And we can separate, Oh, this person can say this.

So it was just, it was a big collaborative environment.

That's so good, that's so good.

And just maybe finally, what if you were, because I'm sure you, you're aware that you know that you were the first and this is going to be out around the world in IP schools everywhere.

What do you hope for the course itself or, or what would you like to see happen?

You know, because I can hear there was some really rich experiences, but also some quite difficult experiences with a lot of growth.

What would you hope for the course if it goes into different kinds of schools, maybe not as well resourced or, you know, in all sorts of different countries, or, you know, like if it came to Brazil and it was in Brazilian schools, what would be some of your hopes for the future of the course?

I really hope the course has an aspect of connection in some way because I went to a boarding school so we obviously were very connected.

We would see each other every day.

We would have lunch with each other.

But I really wonder how it's going to work out for, for schools that are not boarding.

Like how are you going to see people just for two hours every three days and then you're going to have to connect to the point they have to collaborate for, for some crazy group assessments.

Like how are you going to have that trust and had that confidence and that just connection with people?

So I don't know, I hope that people have an opportunity to maybe have an extra class for, I don't know, bonding experience or just because we also had something that we called Prentice at UWC Atlantic.

So it was two extra hours a week that we just had together to just do anything basically.

So we would work on our our collaborative project or maybe we could work on our individual projects for SCP.

So I really, I really wonder how that's going to work out.

But I really hope that people can have this aspect of friendship and connection because I think something that Maria, who started this whole thing always says, she says that systems work is together work.

So I really hope that they have this aspect and they they appreciate that is only for a grade.

And that's something that us as The Pioneers, we talk about so much like we don't want basically for every IV subject, you can just search up, I don't know, chemistry practice exam or like top 10 things you need to know before your exam.

But we don't want STP to just be that kind of subject.

Like STP has this aspect of unknown and just trusting the process.

But then I don't know how different it's going to be if they just already have everything set and they, they have some like list of like key terms I should use in your essay for this.

And for that, like I think they need this aspect of of collaboration and unknown and just friendship to support each other in the process.

I then chatted with Satya, also a founding member of the Pioneer cohort of STP students, and I asked her, having graduated in June and gained a little bit of distance from her experience, what things have particularly stayed with her.

Yeah, it's funny, I was actually talking to one of my Co years younger brothers recently because he was interested in the STP course and he wanted to apply.

And at first I was like, oh, it's been what, four months since the course?

I hope I like remember everything.

And then I started rambling for like a whole hour, just about every little, little detail.

And I was like, I'm sorry, this is too much information.

I can definitely attest to Gabby's description of it being transformative.

And I'd like to add revolutionary.

I had originally switched from the Cambridge curriculum, which I did enjoy.

So IGCSES.

And then I was going to move on to A levels.

One of the reasons I went to AC was because of the IB, because I already saw that as a more forward thinking system of education.

And then as soon as I heard about the STP course, I was like, Oh yeah, I need to apply for that.

I understand, I understand Gabby's description of it being stressful sometimes, especially with some of the collaborative aspects because managing that many students and so many different ideas because of course, it is an extremely diverse cohort coming from various walks of life and various different perspectives, different approaches.

Sometimes there were clashes, as you can expect in those kind of spaces, but it really taught us how to work through them and.

I think that's really been applicable in my life now.

Navigating those kind of situations and thinking on the spot, thinking outside of the box.

Those have all been incredible.

At my workspace today, actually at lunch, we were the program Gapminder came up, which is basically where you can see and visualize different trajectories, different trends, climate change, like hotspots and stuff like that.

And the person who was talking about it was like, Oh yeah, there's this thing called minder and he was explaining it to someone else and he was like, oh, it's data or something.

And I was like, Oh yeah, I did that at school.

It was part of one of my courses.

And then he was like, oh, I did it for my masters.

And I was like, whoa, okay, so we've been like super ahead and taught these really, really incredible tools from the get go.

And I think those tools will definitely stick with me.

Can I just ask you like, what was it about the course and the experience that kind of connected with you with something that you really wanted to be learning?

Like what was it your impact area part or was it the systems or how did you connect in and, and suddenly kind of find like, Oh yeah, this is this is what I want to be learning.

Yeah, When I did my IGCSES and my education beforehand, all I thought was we sat in a class.

I mean, it was all learning, which I find interesting, but we sat in a class, we're taught stuff, and then we have to memorize it and regurgitate it on the exam.

STP was something that you really put into practice and you understood how to apply it to real life situations, which I found invaluable.

And yeah, the impact area, it's really interesting.

When I had come into it, I was hoping to do migration and then I was put in the food impact area, which ended up being an incredible experience.

And I realized how actually all of the impact areas overlapped so well that you didn't miss out on one of, you know, the others.

Because whilst you were honed in on your specific area, I realized how everything is interlinked.

And that's, I think one of the revolutionary aspects of it is now I've stepped back and I don't know if this is a curse or a blessing.

Because as an activist from the age of 11, I've always been like, oh, I need to fix this, this and this.

And now seeing how interlinked it is, it's almost made it trickier because I'm like, oh, I want to work on this, but if I work on that, I need to work on this and jumbled up.

But in the sense it's made it more clear as a whole picture.

And then there's the collaborative aspect of it.

I'd always thought to myself when I was doing exams, I was like, you're not going to be doing like work all by yourself all the time when you go out into the real world.

And I was my 15 year old self was like, why isn't there like a group exam?

That would be so nice.

And then there actually was on this course.

Yeah.

No, that's great.

And could you perhaps just then talk about your experience in the when you were then intervening in the systems?

Because I, as I understand it, you do some kind of systems intervention on an individual level and then you also do it as a group.

So, yeah, what was your experience like on either or both of those and where was the learning in that process for you?

Yes, we started and obviously it's fourth term.

So first term, we as a collective learn all the key skills and tools that we needed to intervene in systems, to breakdown systems, understand them, figure out the barriers and constraints.

Then we were split into our impact areas.

And I believe it was the second term in the beginning of the third term that we worked on our interventions.

So second term we fully planned them, we did them over the summer and then beginning of third time we wrote our reports and then after that we did the collaborative for the rest of the year.

It took a whole lot of planning and I think out of my whole team, I was the second to last to properly figure out what I wanted to do because I'm also quite an indecisive person it seems.

And I kept jumping between ideas.

I was like, oh, I want to do this way.

Or maybe it was.

It was a lot to plan.

I did a lot of interviewing with people back home to see because I really wanted not just to tick a box for the course, I wanted my project to actually hopefully make a difference here in Sri Lanka.

And the teachers were incredible.

We all have our own impact area teacher who they don't like spoon feed us.

They more guide us and give us suggestions and help us when we ask for it.

But for the most part we're able to do our own research.

They'll give us tips and things to focus on.

And then we have, yeah, meetings with them to discuss my intervention didn't go how I planned.

And I think that was an incredible experience, right?

In the beginning, we did this thing called Safe to Fail Experiment.

So we have to just do a project with a random group of people in our STP class just so that we know that it's OK to fail and, you know, you bounce back and you adjust.

And that really applied in what I was doing because at first I wanted to do a round table discussion with different stakeholders within the food system in Sri Lanka.

And I had made a whole presentation.

I had got confirmations from six people.

I was super excited to do it and then I joined the call and one person showed up.

Oh no.

I was really disappointed.

I had one of the people who's an activist who's incredible text me later and said, oh, I'm so sorry.

I was in the jungle saving elephants.

And I was like, yeah, OK, that makes sense because he's very active in that field.

And it was just very hard to coordinate.

And, and I put this in my report was I made my success reliant on external stakeholders, which I couldn't control.

So then because of that, I shifted my project and I was like, OK, I'm going to do individual meetings and then extrapolate the key information that I need.

So that was really interesting.

But looking back on it now that I've finished it and looking at other people's interventions, I think I could have done something a bit different.

I think that was me potentially staying a bit within my comfort zone because I've, I obviously with my activism before I had joined ACI, had done a lot of interviews and hosted webinars and stuff because that was what I was used to.

So I think I had thought that I could do this.

But now looking back and moving forward, I've started looking at other avenues to make change and spread awareness.

And now I've started noticing that I've been coming up with those a bit better than I used to.

As part of my internship at Without Borders at the moment, we were discussing a campaign for the Rohingyas, for example.

And we were all talking and we were like, oh, we should do like a cookbook with different Rohingya recipes and the stories behind them.

And like, that's the kind of stuff that STP pushes.

No, that's great.

And then maybe if we could finish on this, one of the things I'm particularly really curious about is what kinds of things could you see in, in relation to other contexts that might end up hosting the systems transformation pathway?

Yeah.

How might it take shape in in public systems or in in other systems where just maybe there are just more resource constraints or challenges?

I'm just thinking in the context of Sri Lanka, for example.

Yeah, it's very different from Wales.

We've got a whole different ecosystem, a whole different food system, but one of the big stresses was localization, and I think that can be applied in almost any context.

So for Sri Lanka, for example, localized eating is already a huge thing.

So we do localized and seasonal eating, and so I think that can be brought up in the food systems.

Then migration is an interesting one here because we send a lot of our workers outside of the country, whereas I know migration in the context of is talking about people coming into the country.

So that would be shaped differently.

I do think, And I know they were talking about bringing water as one of the impact areas.

I feel like in climate risk zones, it should be an impact area in itself and potentially health in relation to the climate.

Yeah, obviously I don't know how teachers would adapt to working towards it.

So there are some teachers who would for sure be on board.

But then I also had teachers who, when I approached them with my supermarket plastic bag petition, was like, oh, what do you expect me to do without plastic bags?

So it's a very polarized situation and context and I think as developing nations, yeah, I don't know if that plays a role in how forward thinking it is.

Interesting to.

To hear, but I do think it's it's also I have to speak to the fact that I think there's a sense of not privilege, but in the UK, for example, as I said, developed nation they've they're able to move on.

I don't know if it's Eurocentric or just very, the system is very tricky to deal with.

Like in Sri Lanka, we have just come out of an economic crisis.

We're currently wrapped around the finger of the IMF.

We've got a lot of our own like problems to deal with.

And so I think in terms of focus on priorities, I think that really plays a role.

And obviously all countries have their own issues, but in terms of education system, I think at the moment we're trying to sort out our weather and sorting out the debts that our country's in and all of the issues that we're facing.

So yeah, that might be one of the reasons why it's not as quick.

I wish we were in the position to fully focus on education and drive that forward.

And if there were enough actors doing so, I think it could be a possibility.

But I think, I mean, it's like I was talking about like the fact that the system's so interlinked.

It's like, oh, but if you fix the education, then you'll move on and it'll, it'll work in that way.

But it's just so intertwined.

And I think one thing that my family really follows, it's been big part of my core values is I am in a position where I can focus on these things and I can use my voice and I should do so.

There are people who are trying to think of their next meal.

They don't have time or energy to be able to speak up or prioritize such things.

So when I'm in this position, I should use my voice to speak up and try my best to make any difference possible.

We hope you've enjoyed this episode.

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