As far as all the popular bio hacks are concerned, what are the ones that you feel personally have the biggest bang for the buck and ones that are probably just smoking mirrors and not really necessary?

I'm a big fan of BPC, you know, as a as a peptide for inflammation and the recovery.

Absolutely distorted direct sun in the morning for 20 minutes plus hydration plus high protein.

You know, those are kind of again, the non negotiables.

Some other ones I would maybe give more credence to are again, things like pimp or electrical magnetic, you know, frequency treatment in general.

We're starting to see a lot of, you know, really cool research continue to come out about that and TMS and, you know, those types of modalities essentially.

And we are live, Thorne.

How are you, brother?

Fantastic.

How are we doing, Robert?

Good man, good you.

You talk probably typically jumping on podcast talking about brain development, micro habits, all that good stuff.

But I want to start off with Backcountry, man.

Like when was your last Backcountry trip?

Oh yeah, I'm in the Backcountry pretty regularly.

I would say, you know, during the winter, quite a bit of skiing, live in Colorado and so, you know, could be multi day trips in the, in the Backcountry there.

I would say, you know, the longer trips of late, I mean a lot of cycling.

So we cycle here up to Independence Pass.

You know, it's the Continental divide.

Haven't done much camping, but I the, the last big trip I did was actually kite surfing in Egypt.

And so that was last month.

And so that was like, you know, we were on boats.

So I wouldn't say it was like Backcountry, Backcountry, but that was pretty cool.

That's pretty cool.

Have you ever been to Alaska?

Oh yeah, many times, yeah.

Done a number of trips back there.

How, how does Alaska compare to Colorado?

I mean, like, it's just more out there than Colorado.

Alaska is the final frontier.

You know, like we've done wilderness trips where again, we've taken planes in and gone camping and you know, you're dealing with Grizzlies.

I mean, I've, I've actually gone camping in Denali as an example.

And I mean, there are Grizzlies all over, you know, and you're kind of cohabitating.

So it's not necessarily risky per SE, but you know, you definitely need to be aware.

And you're going out there mostly snowboarding and skiing.

Yeah, tons.

Yeah, I do a lot of snow camping in the winters and again, you know in the summers a lot of just multi day backpacking and so forth.

But.

Nice, I lived in Washington state for a few years and I got into snowboarding there just enough to like, not bust my ass as frequently as I was, but I am no pro by any means.

It's it's pretty fun though, I enjoy it.

I mean, it's it's one of my life passions for sure, yeah.

And you did like triathlons and all kinds of stuff, right?

Yeah, I do do number triathlons.

I just did Steamboat Springs, that was about two weeks ago.

And then I have a team that's getting ready to do Malibu, that's September 13th, about six weeks away.

And we do that to raise fundraising for Challenge Athlete Foundation and have a great group that try to race that every year.

Very cool.

Well, you're like the head of brain one.

I I want to dive into that.

But what was the the origin story for you having such a passionate interest for doing hard stuff to begin with?

Man, like where'd that come from?

Yeah, thank you.

So you know my background is molecular biology.

So I'm a scientist and really a researcher out my core began my career on the bench quite literally doing biotech drug development.

I was in the molecular biology, but generally the genomics side of the house and really focusing on the gene expression models.

So the idea of looking at novel proteins essentially.

So DNA makes, RNA makes proteins.

And we would find novel essentially gene targets and then we would express them and then we would test against them.

And so very much focused in, in measurement in general.

And then as I went out of biotech, I moved to LA and I basically became a data scientist.

And so started off very much as a on the ground level move my way up pretty quickly, but with the focus always on measurement and how can we measure a human flavor and then ultimately optimize against it.

And then parallel in my 20s, I began trail running.

I was always very active as a youth and snowboarding, skiing in particular, but began trail running doing like Susan G Komen, you know, 10 KS and then half marathons, marathons.

And then I got into full Iron Man's.

And it was through that experience I began to use wearables.

So, you know, currently this is the Garmin Enduro.

You know, I have like 10 different wearables that I'll, I'll test continually, but that was really kind of the impetus of using data to optimize biology and that idea of biological tuning, you know, essentially of, of using data and what I could find, you know, what I found back then, this is when we had the big chunky garments, you know, they've gotten much more efficient and, and better about early life, but then I could optimize, you know, my biology again by using data.

So things like heart rate, I can attenuate my lactic threshold by, you know, going X amount longer and, you know, so forth.

And, and really optimizing not only my biology, but ultimately my raise times.

And it was all for fun, but it's really where I saw the the value and the use of using wearable data in the day-to-day.

Very cool, very cool.

I've got, I've got the karma account that we were talking about before we started recording.

I got the aura before I lost it.

And I've I've used like I'm a big data advocate, like I'm tracking macros, manipulating inputs, all kinds of stuff, optimizing sleep.

But I also am very intuitive with a lot of stuff I do, especially when it comes to like heart, like heart rate training.

I never train based off a heart rate.

Yeah, I just recently got AVO 2 Max done for the first time 2 weeks ago.

So it's kind of piqued my interest in because I'm doing a little bit more of endurance work right now.

But yeah, I, I, I'd be curious to know how you in your sport, like how do you use the garment specifically?

Like what are you looking at?

What are you manipulating?

What's your main use case?

Yeah.

So we're actually doing again a a research study right now and we're comparing multiple wearables and then seeing the variance in the data sets.

So that's been really interesting.

You know, there's a definition for HRV, but every algorithm and every wearable is different, you know, and so the data will always be differently.

So if you're, you know, always be different.

So if you're looking at the trends, it's OK, but you know, if you're comparing one number to a number, it will never be exactly the same.

Of course, what we've seen the data though is the in general, I try to use the OR for sleep.

I think it's one of the most accurate.

It's also the least invasive.

And then I use Garmin for for activity is kind of my my tandem.

And we've compared it to whoop, whoops, generally pretty good because it's just a single band.

But of course you need the phone is the interface.

So just depending if you're in the Backcountry or don't have your phone, that could be an issue.

But yeah, we've been looking at it essentially all the wearables that are out there.

And then relative to my use, so I use the, let's say the Garmin, right?

And I do use, I use heart rate.

I mean, that's definitely a, a good metric, resting heart rate and then heart rate variability.

But when I'm training and I'm doing like, let's say training right now for the Malibu triathlon, I'll look at my averages essentially of heart rate for a specific sport at a specific intensity and then see, does that change over time?

You know, ultimately, so if I know I have to do a 15 mile bike ride, you know, what would be my average training heart rate and then see if I can, you know, increase that, decrease it, you know, depending on whatever that use case might be for the the particulars of the rates that that's why.

You're trying to see that heart rate, you know, decreasing as you're able to maintain or improve intensity of the activity itself.

Exactly, yeah.

And so that's where you're using other things like wattage, you know, on the bike as an example.

But you know, you can generally get a good amount out of just the the typical wearables, so.

Drathons are no joke, man.

I've never done one, but I've got the guy I did the VO2 Max with.

He just opened up a location with the DEXA fit and all that good stuff.

And he's training for a, he may be training for Malibu 2 actually, but he was, he's done a few of them.

He's talking to me about it.

I'm like, man, I, I don't know the last time I stepped on a bike or went for a swim.

So like those would be my my weak points for sure.

For sure.

I mean, swimming's usually everyone's weakest just in general, unless you were collegiate, you know, I mean, I'm a pretty good swimmer.

I've done full Iron Man.

But you know, every time I get into the pool, it's almost like starting over to a degree.

I cycle regularly here in Colorado.

We do a lot of trail running, you know, up to 1314 thousand foot.

But but yeah, swimming is is my weakest for sure.

So, but you really, you know, go ahead.

Have you ever done like an ultra marathon have?

I done any ultras, I, I peeked out at Iron Man's.

I did 2, I did Iron Man Arizona and then Wales.

And then I'm, I'm such a big skier and snowboarder and Backcountry and all of that.

I've had four knee surgeries and finally my doctor was like, hey, you can keep doing Iron Man's, you're going to need a knee replacement.

And so now I only do the shorter distances.

I do the sprints primarily and you know, try to place on those, but that's yeah, it's been really the focus given the knees until it's sufficient enough just to do a knee surgery and at what point then I would consider it.

But.

Have you played around with any like the the peptides or stem cells or anything like that for the knee?

Oh yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I've done a PRPA number of times and I've done peptides for you know, years essentially primarily BPC 157, you know the most common of course for inflammation and whatnot.

That's been pretty much my go to.

Yeah, I'd be, I mean, surgeries would be scary, especially if you get like an athletic.

Like my mom just had both of her hips replaced and then one of her knees.

And it's like, but she's not doing the type of athletic stuff that I am.

It's like, man, if I'm so used to training and then I have to go in for surgery and not knowing the outcome of that recovery, it's like, and that'd be wrecking me.

Yeah, it's, you know, I think about that frequently.

Again, I've had like 4 knee surgeries and now I'm thinking about another ACL.

And so at the beginning of the season, you know, and we, we ski almost every day here in the winter as much as we can.

And so you're putting such pressure in that case on, you know, my, my knee ligaments.

It just just depends.

So now I'm like thinking at the end of the season, is it better just to get it done?

So, you know, I have six months to recover and I can ski, but we'll see, you know, kind of play it by ear, but.

You think the wear and tear on the knees mostly from the skiing?

Well, it's like from the skiing, yeah, I mean some of that when I was doing a lot of like city marathons on cement, you know, that like completely tears up the joints.

But you know, with skiing and snowboarding, it's the lateral movement and we're we're aggressive skiers here.

So yeah, that'll do it.

That said, you know, I started doing Pilates about probably about 2 1/2 years ago, and I do it now 2 to probably three to four days a week.

And I do hot Pilates in particular and it's one of the hardest classes we have in town and, and it's also really helped with my cross training of skiing.

So you know, my general health protocol is hot Pilates like 3 or 4 days a week and then roughly 3 or 4 days of cardio and then of.

Course they have it cranked up in there.

One O 5, you know, roughly depending, yeah.

It's pretty toasty, man.

Yeah, I know it's hot, but you come out of that room a different human.

Yeah, so and it, you know, of course is the sweat and so you're getting all the benefits of that and you know, like a typical sauna workout.

So.

But yeah, you come out and maybe bring 2 liters of water and usually drink all.

That's wild, man.

All right, so talk to me about brain 1.

So I, I, I was perusing on the website before we jumped on and then you kind of gave me a rundown as well, But I like that.

I mean like the whole biohacking space is on fire right now.

And with that, you're seeing a massive push towards, you know, tech and supplementation.

But the things that I had about yours was there's a big emphasis on like micro habits.

And I'm a, I'm a, I'm a huge advocate of figuring out something that you can implement on a day-to-day basis and then never deviating from it.

I guess my superpower as a human, if I had one, like figure out what I need to do on a day-to-day basis and then without fail, do not deviate.

So dive into that man.

Yeah.

So, you know, the genesis was from my background as a peak, you know, performance athlete first and foremost, again, having done Iron Man's where you're continually optimizing nutrition, you know, as you're very familiar with, right.

But you're, you're out on the bike, you've got hydration, electrolytes, carbohydrates, you know, some level of protein, you know, and you're, you're optimizing all these things.

And if you get any one of them off you're, you know, basically hitting a wall.

So it was kind of from that general mindset.

And then as I was going down the road, I, I was doing some pro bono work with a group out of Columbia University and I saw a need for just better resources and brain health and, and brain fitness specifically.

And, And so it was, was basically, you know, came up with the concept of using health protocols and scaling them.

And So what does that mean?

So what we've done initially is we will take a scientific paper.

Have you heard the hypothesis dementia is preventive?

It's pretty prevalent, you know, nowadays generally it's referred from The Lancet 2020.

So if you Google Lancet 2020 dementia, the paper will come up.

And what they've done is they've identified 12 modifiable, what they call risk factors or just behavioral modifications, micro habits, things that you can do to lessen your propensity for dementia.

And there's 55,000,000 cases worldwide, you know, with dementia.

And this would potentially help support 30 to 40% of that, you know, as we're talking 10s of millions of users, you know, at this stage.

And so we'll take that paper, we run through the AI, we get an editorial, and then we get a protocol people can quite literally follow of things micro habits to do everyday.

And so a protocol is comprised of micro habits.

A micro habit could be nutrition supplements, you know, including peptides, of course, we have a huge database of those.

And then it can also include, you know, just like the behavioral things that you do everyday, like cold plunging, right?

Cold plunging would be a micro habit as part of your health protocol.

And then even within cold plunging, you have multiple variables that you can optimize.

So you know, frequency per week, duration of, you know, the session, temperature of the session, you know, would be like 3 immediate variables.

And so we're constantly optimizing essentially the protocol and then the micro habits to that human robber.

And we also have over 300 wearables that are integrated today.

So every major wearable you can imagine.

And then where we're going next is essentially test for could be like blood based biomarkers as an example for, for things like brain health.

And so looking at, you know, let's say there's a company we partner with, there's, there's a cognition test 6 blood biomarkers.

And so people can come in, they can integrate, you know, their wearables and then they could look at, you know, doing a test such as this.

And then they would get their baseline cognition and then undergo a program and a protocol and then ultimately see if there's improvements over time.

That's the general idea.

So is this, is it like tracking what, what is people like?

If somebody's like, OK, I've got a family history of Alzheimer's dementia, I'm going to jump on this.

What does that look like from their workflow standpoint?

They they go in, they pull that protocol out and then it generates their micro habits that they need to be checking off on a day-to-day basis.

Yep, that's correct.

Yeah.

So we again, we've taken, we have a database of protocol, there's over 400 and then the user can come and they can select one and then they can integrate their wearables and then use the AI to actually tailor the, you know, essentially the program and the protocol to them.

You know, Robert, you as a human based on your actual data.

And if you're like, do you need to check off the habit or is it like picking up the fact like if you're one of your habits is go for a run, but then you're wearables that's integrated shows that you've got elevated heart rate and you've tracked a run on your Garmin for 30 minutes.

Is it automatically?

That's what we're working on now.

Yeah.

So there's active and passive tracking essentially.

And so right now the core platform is based on adherence.

You know, you signed up for this.

Did you do the things that you signed up for, yes or no?

And then you track it That would be active.

You know, you're literally saying yes, I went on this run.

We generally have people do that and, you know, in the evenings, essentially reflecting on the day, voice journal, all those types of things.

And then secondly, a human can.

Yeah.

I mean, basically that's the that's the primary we would be tracked.

But secondly, it could be, you know, essentially passive tracking, seeing that they have an increase and, you know, they did this activity or they're logging the activity in a Garmin or a Strava, whatever it might be.

And then we could tell they did that thing.

Nice, so on on your you're kind of like the Guinea pig, you know, being the the head on show this like what what is your daily micro habits stack look like?

Yeah.

So I have a series of non negotiables, you know, and we initially went down this road.

I mean, I don't love the term biohacking, but that, you know, concept of biological optimization, longevity, you know, and so we took protocols from all of the major longevity practitioners out of there.

Anything that's been published, we looked at Ryan Johnson and Blueprint, we looked at Peter Attia, Caleb Barnes and, and basically analyze them and, you know, saw what are the, the patterns essentially across every single longevity protocol ever, right?

And there's you're non negotiable.

So things like nutrition, exercise, sleep and stress are kind of like, you know, the four pillars that you see across every one of these protocols.

And so mine generally breaks down into this 4 categories.

So relative to nutrition, I will do a intermittent fast till usually about 10 or 11 in the morning, ideally starting about, you know, 7 or 8 the night before.

Nutrition wise, it depends on how I'm training, but I've got a full regimen of, of supplements, you know, ranging from Omega threes to I use like Thorin multivitamins.

I use magnesium somewhat basic.

When I'm fully training, I'll use BPC as a peptide.

And then and then you have your exercise.

As I mentioned, just, you know, my, my general, there would be hot Pilates, hot yoga three days a week and then something fairly long on the cardio side, you know, 50-60 miles on the bike trail running and things like that.

And then, you know, relative to stress and sleep, just management tools.

There could be breath work also could be, you know, just regular bedtime routines, circadian regulation, you know, from sun in the morning and then you know, trying to wind down by

let's say seven, 8:00 at night.

So those are the general and I can actually share my health protocol with you and you can see exactly what that looks like in Brain Wine as well.

Nice, nice.

Are you, I know we're talking about Aura.

Before we start a recording, have you looked into that eight sleep or Sleep 8 or whatever it's called?

Yeah.

But I'm very interested.

That one looks cool.

We actually integrate into them.

We have an API already.

But yeah, I haven't haven't played around with it.

But yeah, that one I've heard is a game changer.

Yeah, I feel like thermal regulation, you know, happening simultaneously as you sleep would be the way to go.

Especially we just had a son couple weeks ago.

So like we got a lot of bodies in the bed right now and I get hot and my wife doesn't want it to be too hot for the baby or too cold for the baby.

So like having my own thermal regulated side would make all the difference?

Yes, you should definitely consider it.

They're not cheap, but I've heard very much worth the investment.

Yeah, for sure.

When it comes to like habit stacking in general, I feel like a lot of people struggle with this.

Like when I'm working with clients, I'm trying to get them to adhere to a specific macro protocol and, you know, good dietary choices.

Like I've, I've become part nutrition coach and like part therapist and I'm trying to figure out how to make it work within their lifestyle.

And it's almost like in order for habits to be formed, there's got to be a strong enough desire for them to want to do it, obviously, first and foremost.

But it almost, it's almost like there has to be some form of consequence if they don't adhere.

And this can be different for the individual.

But like in your work, work with people and try to get things, you know, consistent.

How have you found the most luck in adherence?

Like just getting them to stick with it?

Yeah, that's a great question.

So adherence depends on motivation, right?

Like if you ask a human to do a thing, what is their motivation?

And generally that's driven by value.

And so it just depends on, you know, what that humans motivation is.

And so where we've actually been seeing a lot of we actually have ABDB product, that's our our primary product that we're taking to market, working with practitioners in the levity longevity space as an example.

And so or another big one is actually surgeons.

So surgeons that have pre and post op protocols.

And So what we see is very high adherence for surgeons or medical professionals post surgery.

Because generally speaking, if you've had a surgery, you want to heal as efficiently and effectively as you can.

And so in that case, you know you have a much higher adherence in general, right?

But to answer your question more broadly, the really the strategy we take is using cognitive behavioral therapy and education, you know, as an integral part of that.

Like again, it comes back to that point, if people see the value of doing the thing, then they have a higher propensity of actually doing it.

And so it's a very small baby steps, like some of our more advanced protocols, you know, can have 2630, you know, 40 micro habits as an example.

People really have to start small, especially if they've never used the concept of a protocol.

So literally like changing one habit a week can be massive, you know, for a normal human.

But it is that concept of using CBT and then specifically like Q and rewards, you know, how do we show them the value?

How do we educate them and then ask them to do the thing?

And then we also have implemented different label like layers of algorithmic, you know, messaging essentially.

And so getting them at the right time.

And those pieces are also really critical in that pathway.

You feel like there's like, like milestone achievements, you know, weigh heavily on people in a positive light, like, you know, they've got some goal, they've reached micro goal A.

100%, yeah.

So one of our new partnerships we're actually about to announce is with a Do you watch football offhand?

Not really, but I'm fine.

I'm not.

Honestly, I'm more of like a bored guy and you know, triathlon, but so we partnered with this amazing athlete named Malik Jackson.

Malik is a Super Bowl 50 Super Bowl champion.

I mean, I think it was MVP of that game.

Like and just such an awesome, amazing human.

He's got a group called the Care League that focuses on protocols and you know, essentially health plans concierge for ex NFL athletes.

You know, and a lot of these guys are dealing with TBI, you know, tragically, you know, you're seeing some of the stuff in the news.

They're dealing with mental health, you know, purpose in these things.

And so with and going down this road with Malik, we're really excited.

We're working with a bunch of NFL guys on this.

But the concept again of how do you incentivize them?

And what we found is, is to your question using things like leaderboards and gamification and not cheesy, you know, like airline status gamification or like retail models, but again, trying to incentivize them to do the thing using those types of made of testing essentially those types of models now and leaderboards are a good example.

Are you on Strava?

Yeah, I've got a Strava camp.

Yeah, so like I, I use Strava more than any other social platform and I just do it for myself.

I mean, that said, you know, there's like leaderboards on Strava and then there's like King of the Hill and local Legend and you know, those types of things.

And those are just drivers, you know, those are helpful in, in getting people, again, committed driving motivation and, you know, showing value.

So those are some of the the areas that we you know are testing and and I've seen great success.

And I feel like people that are using this software tech in the 1st place probably have some essence of competitiveness in their nature because they're trying to do this to get better themselves.

And when you start getting better, you kind of wind up becoming more competitive by default.

So haven't like a leaderboard functionality makes a lot of sense.

100% yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

We in, you know, we, we started off more in the peak performance side.

But to be clear, we want, you know, our grandparents to use these protocols.

You know, we didn't don't just want to focus there.

So we're looking at ways of making these even digestible for older humans.

Or maybe it's not a digital device.

It's like a printed out protocol they can follow on their fridge, you know, things like that.

But yeah, that's I think that's accurate.

The older demographics, tough man, like I've got grandparents is all of the students like, man, like there's just, there's a lot of ignorance around, you know, what is a macro nutrient?

Like they don't know the difference between carbs, fats and proteins or things like that.

And to be fair, like when they were growing up, we weren't in near the, you know, metabolic syndrome that we are now.

So it wasn't really top of mind.

But yeah, trying to break things down for them and get them motivated and seeing the bigger picture is challenging for sure.

Yeah.

I mean 100%, you know, like most doctors.

I mean, how many days did they spend in medical school studying nutrition?

You know, I mean, it's it's it's pretty crazy.

I have a quick anecdote.

I broke my clavicle here in Colorado two years ago.

And I went to the Stedman Institute.

It's the number one orthopedic in the US NBANFL, all those guys.

And I go in, they do an X-ray and she's like, Oh yeah, her clavicle is completely broken.

Here you go and threw me a sling.

And so my healthcare protocol was literally immobilization, right?

You don't move your arm.

That was it though, you know, and I was like, OK, great.

What what do I do?

Is there anything to follow?

And she's like, you know, I mean, there's a piece of paper or something they gave me and I went to my network and I asked him in my group and I have a lot of nutritionists and dietitians, part of the brain one family and I, you know, asked them.

I was like, hey, broke my clavicle.

What do you guys think?

They're like, oh, collagen bone broths, you know, And so I started making bison stews and, you know, soups and, and then I was actually doing temp as well.

Do you know PMF?

Are you familiar with that as a modality?

Right, pulse, electrical magnetic frequency.

I've done Pam for years and but I did send this really interesting localized Pam for it, like pulled, you know, the electricity through the bone.

And Long story short, I went back to Steadman and you know, this was she's like, come back in six week and I was traveling.

So I went back in 3 1/2.

They do an X-ray.

She's like, Oh my gosh, this is completely healed.

What have you been doing?

And I was like, I was focusing on my nutrition and like one of the top, you know, doctors at Steadman was like, oh, we never would have thought of that.

You know, literally they never would have thought of nutrition as an integral part of the human healing process.

And that was like one of the epiphany moments in, in working towards like developing brain one.

It just didn't make sense to me.

And so to the point, you know, not only our, our, our parents, our grandparents, they didn't really, you know, they, they learned the food pyramid, you know, like, what are you kidding me?

And thank God, it's being, you know, essentially updated as we speak.

But how crazy is that to think that, you know, grains are, you know, essentially the staple of, of everything.

And that's what our grandparents grew up with.

And ultimately most, most doctors, you know, like that's what they're basically signing on for, you know, for the majority.

So part of it is education.

And that's actually a really integral part of of what we've built is around educating, you know, humans and and trying to give them science evidence based, you know, peer reviewed articles that they can ultimately make their own informed decision upon.

But that's really that well.

I mean, it's, it's interesting, like I'm in the, you know, evidence based bodybuilding community all the time.

And there's so much discourse around various nutritional studies and training modalities.

And it's like there's so many studies that people, they, they don't know what actions to put into place because there's so many seemingly conflicting piece of information.

So I like what you get going that basically synthesizes all this information and then aggregates it over all the data coming in and then just develops legitimate micro habits that people can implement.

They won.

Yeah, I mean, that's it.

Literally, yeah, it's a massive challenge.

You know, you, you have to look at every single study and it's their bias.

And so again, what we've done is we've gone the route of taking peer reviewed studies that we've approved and then using that as the backbone for the content and the education as opposed to just like using an AI and being like, hey, you know, tell me about hurry variability and triathlon and da da, da.

So we're, you know, again, starting with the paper and then developing, you know, the content, the programs and protocols.

Yeah.

What do you think?

And, and you mentioned before we start recording too, that there's like a, a journaling that's that's one quote UN quote biohack that I know I need to get better at, but I'm not very good at at all, especially like old fashioned pen and paper journaling.

But you've got a voice functionality there now.

We do, yeah.

So I'm, you know, I'm a scientist at my core researcher.

I literally have like, I'm not joking, 70 of these journals.

Like this is when I was in the lab, we would just take notes with everything.

So I have like work journals and then I have personal journals that I've used often on for years.

We have digitized that with a journal in the app and the experience and we have focused on voice actually.

And voice is interesting because it's also a biometric.

And so when people log in, they go through a short assessment, they can integrate the wearables and then they have the option of using essentially a voice recorder as a biometric.

And the reason is, is because you can see like the amount of of variables that we can get out of a voice biometric are nuts.

I mean, there was a study recently they were able to diagnose those autism essentially through voice.

Emotion is actually fairly easy to get to.

And so we've been testing essentially people coming in and they're leaving a voice journal, but they can also opt in to leave a voice biometric and then they don't need to sync a wearable.

You know, ultimately, if they don't have a wearable, they can't afford a wearable, so they can actually use voice.

So there's some really interesting testing we're doing on that front.

And the goal is also to reach, you know, older audiences that definitely don't have biometrics.

I mean, some, but it's rare.

But instead, you know they could use this type of function functionality if they choose to and.

And I actually did an interesting analysis where I was able to see correlation in the initial data between voice and HRV coming out of Aura as an example.

So.

Very cool.

So you can record into it.

Can you go back retroactively and listen to the recording as well as see the text?

Yeah, exactly.

So it transcribes it into a written text and you can approve all this, you know, it's all opt in.

I mean we're we're very upfront about, you know, the, the data collection and so forth.

But you, you know, you approve it and then it's a transcription and then ultimately you also have that signal that's processed and then that becomes a trendable graph and you can see how that trends over time.

And then we've compared that to, we're actually doing a research study now where we're comparing, you know, boys with a number of wearables.

And then just seeing, you know, do these things trend?

What's the variance between HRV out of Aura versus Woo versus Garmin?

And there's variances in all of it, of course, but you know, are they trending together?

Is it possible to get like like a synopsis of the, the primary thoughts that you're, you know, having and, and journaling over the course of time?

Like for instance, if I'm doing this voice journaling on my way to the coffee stand every day, for instance, and then I want to get a overview of what is on my mind and therefore in my journal over the past three months.

Does it kind of like get the highlights?

We're not there yet.

It's something we've talked about.

You know, the content is also sensitive.

And so, you know, we're not necessarily analyzing the semantics or the words per SE.

We could, but you know, currently we're not, you know, we're using the, it's more the actual voice, you know, no inflections or recording to then drive the analysis essentially.

So slightly different.

Like really bummed it would pick up that I'm bummed for extended period of time or if I'm like euphoric it wouldn't it would no tape that as well.

Potentially, yeah, yeah, I mean that's literally what we're we're testing right now.

So, you know, we're doing an IRB approved research study about exactly this.

And some of these things I've done myself, I mean, I've done time series, you know, for for years, just, you know, personally as an interest of these things.

And but it's cool.

And you know, now between, again, voice, facial recognition, iris recognition, I mean, there's an incredible amount of data.

You can tell hypertension just with a facial scan with nearly the same accuracy as a blood pressure monitor on your arm, you know, literally just with a scan 30 seconds, boom, you know, as an example.

So the technology is getting much better.

Yeah, the landscape right now is wild, man.

It's, it's like I'm a purist traditionalist in so many ways, but it's like I've got to bridge the gap between taking advantage of all the tools and resources that we have at our disposal now, but just not to the detriment of the foundational course that that's positive, that comes from that fundamental mindset.

And that's the hard part, man, because it's like we live in this weird dichotomy in 2025.

100% And honestly, there's just the, you know, there's a flooding at the market, especially in anything neuro attack relative to devices or even supplements.

I mean, it's, it's absolutely crazy, you know, the, the number of products that are on the market.

And that's part of the reason we went down this road is to help better inform.

And there are some, you know, really good products that are, you know, becoming consumer facing where you can literally do, you know, EEG and neurofeedback with like a band at home instead of going and seeing a therapist.

And so for certain humans, you know, you have to meet them where they're at.

And that's like a really good option for them.

But again, you know, the accuracy, how many clinical trials have they done?

Generally a lot of the stuff is not FDA approved, you know for better or worse on that, but.

Yeah, totally.

What's your take on just behavioral thought in general?

You know, that seems I've talked about this on quite a few podcasts lately, but like the people that are in the nutrition performance based biohacking space, like they're in hook, line and sink, like they want to get all the wearables, they want to dive as deep into the research they want to implement as much as they possibly can.

Then you've got the other subset of the population that seems to be totally oblivious to these tools and resources and just continues to get unhealthier and unhealthier.

So like the bell curve has gotten more narrow.

I mean, you've got just two polar extremes, more so than a blended median.

What?

What is the catalyst to get people on the right track in the 1st place?

Do you think it's going to be like this implosion point at which society just simply can't sustain itself as they get unhealthy?

Or what's going to happen?

I think it will be a combination and I think we're seeing this right now.

You know, the fact that Andrew Huberman can do a three hour podcast with his retention rate, you know, and, and the fact that people are listening to three hours signs based podcast is amazing.

And I think as the the technology gets more ubiquitous, you know, Kennedy just announced that every American should have a wearable as a side note.

I mean, that's pretty progressive, whether you like his policies or not.

I mean, that's one that's interesting and it really lends it till itself to, you know, the ability for the the technology just to get easier for people to use.

So accessibility is part of that.

And then 2 is, how do you drive action from the thing?

I think that's what a lot of these wearables don't do as well.

And it's a gap that we're filling is it's one thing to say, OK, your HRV is elevated, you know, what have you been doing?

But then offering really practical mechanisms to try to reduce, you know, your HRV urine, improve your ability to rest, you know, what does that look like for parasympathetic regulation basically?

So I believe that we're seeing that trend, you know, shift more and more.

I mean, I, I think we're seeing in real time.

And I remember 10 years ago, I was doing a, a triathlon in Central Coast, California.

And one of my buddies, we were like camping outdoors, doing a training camp.

And he had a red light on his knee.

We're like, Dean, what are you doing over there?

And he's like, oh, you got to try, you know, try this red light thing.

This is like over 10 years ago, right?

And at the time, no one had heard of red light.

It's now on Tony Robbins's homepage.

You know which.

And of course, I'm sure the majority of your readers have all done unrelated at this stage.

So, you know, these things that used to be more fringe are now becoming, you know, more and more ubiquitous.

I mean, literally, you're seeing that with, you know, these types of facilities with cryo as an example, cold plunging, you know, at home cold plunging, that whole market has just exploded.

So I believe we're seeing a shift.

And then, you know, again, back to the, you know, USDA side of the house in general, I, I like to believe people are getting healthier, at least, you know, working towards healthier habits.

But that's where we're really trying to also focus not just on the peak performance.

It's like the everyday user, you know, that can really benefit from that concept.

You know, again, we grew up with very little information outside of the food pyramid on nutrition, you know, and obviously that was completely flawed.

And you know, this more than anyone as someone, as a keto evangelist.

So, so that's my optimism ultimately at the end of the day, yeah, it's just trying to meet, you know, that normal human and and also provide accessibility.

I would say that's another big one too.

You know, our programs range and cost.

Some people can't afford a wearable, right?

They can't afford to do a program.

But there's other things you can do to, you know, essentially manage your autonomic nervous system so you can go into the river.

You know, here in Colorado, I do cold plungering literally here in the rivers, 45°, it's fricking freezing.

But you know, we do it regularly.

And so if you can't, you don't have a river nearby.

You can do a cold shower, you can do breath work as another example.

So, you know, these tools, while the diagnostics absolutely cost money, you know, a lot of these things we try to make, you know, accessible for the everyday person to to do as well.

It is interesting man.

I'm reading a book.

I just read Cam Haynes's Undeniable is his latest one.

And then I read, I'm reading the comfort Crisis right now.

And it's interesting talking to people in the biohacking health space.

It's like so many of these fundamental recommendations or things that were just by definition happening on a day-to-day basis 500 years ago.

And we took it for granted.

And like the world has gotten so much more soft, plush and comfortable that we have to like seek out this adversity.

Like going to get a cold shower in the river.

Like that just happened everyday basis.

Like going, you know, putting forth a bunch of activity, putting a bunch of steps in, hunting down food, cooking a meal with your fan.

Like all these things that were just, you know, part of the day back then are now things that we've got to like call a bio hack and get excited about to implement.

But it's like, man, it makes such a profound difference.

Like obviously eating processed, hyper palatable junk food and watching Netflix all day is not the cure.

100% isolation, you know, I mean, that's absolutely a killer.

You know, we have also found the power of connection as an example, people who are connected to themselves, to their family, to their higher power, whatever it is, if you have that sense of connection and purpose, you know, your life expectancy increases, like what is it, 10 to 12 years or so?

So you know, the the power of connection, just having community and people around you as an example, it's, yeah, very, very powerful.

Is there a community functionality within Brain One?

Not yet.

We're working on it right now.

Yeah, I intentionally wanted to wait a bit.

We we started testing with some basic gamification.

So you know, really in some ways competing against yourself, but using things like streaks were built in day one.

You know, did you do the things you said you were going to do on a micro habit basis, on a protocol basis?

And now we're building leaderboards and then the ability to like, follow and share and, you know, all those types of things.

But very excited about it.

And yeah, the sort of the, you know, the community members as.

Well, nice, nice.

As far as all the popular bio hacks are concerned, the ones that you've played around with and implemented in your own day-to-day routine.

What are the ones that you feel personally have the biggest bang for the buck and the ones that are probably just smoke and mirrors and not really necessary?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I think fundamentally just starting with like the non negotiable and the basics.

So as a, you know, a data scientist myself, measurement, you know, I wouldn't even call this a biohack per SE, but it's the door to understanding your baselines that you can then optimize, right.

So minimal as we discussed like or is a great example, you know what, 300 bucks, you know, for the ring $6 a month and then you have that baseline of your activity plus your sleep data that you can then begin to optimize again.

So I think, you know, that would be 1, I would say out of the gate that can allow you to understand, you know, your data that you can then ultimately monotonize against.

I think other, other big ones.

I'm a big fan of BPC, you know, as a, as a peptide for inflammation.

When I'm here in Colorado and I'm skiing all winter, you know, snowboarding nearly every single day, I possibly can you feel in the joints.

And so I definitely feel with something like BPC as a peptide, you know, the the inflammation and the recovery absolutely distorts.

You just have to give yourself injections, which you know, is not always the easiest for some people.

But you know what other I mean, again, I, you know, it's the, as I go down the list, you know, nutrition, exercise, sleep and stress.

I mean literally for, for every one of these circadian regulation, you know, direct sun in the morning for 20 minutes.

I mean, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

So things like that plus hydration, plus high protein, you know, those are kind of again the non negotiables and then they get more advanced from there depending if I'm training or if I'm traveling or you know, whatever routine like it.

Are there any that have like really gained popularity momentum?

But you're like, man, this is not worth near the hype that it's been given.

I thought I would say offhand, not necessarily worth the hype.

I think some other ones I would maybe give more credence to are again, things like pimp for electrical, magnetic, you know, frequency treatment in general.

I mean, we're starting to see a lot of, you know, really cool research continue to come out about that and TMS and you know, those types of modalities essentially.

So those are pretty exciting, I would say.

Yeah, I have the.

I've not done that.

I'm familiar with it, but like the electromagnetic pulsing for muscle stimulation relaxation, like when my wife was in labor, they had like this electrical thing that they offered her where they could just hook that up to and you know, I guess distract the intensity of the contractions.

But it's like, who would have ever thought about that?

That makes total sense.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

There's another partner.

They're doing bioral beats that they actually use in surgeries to essentially get to a specific, you know, gamma brain frequency.

And they can do surgeries without anesthesia.

I mean, we've been hearing some pretty crazy things along those lines, but.

The binaural beats the stripping man.

I had a down the podcast a while back and he was like, you can totally like I've got, I used to have really bad OCD and he's like, you can totally rewire your, your brain basically gets stuck in a feedback loop and you've got to like be repetitive to like fulfill that loop.

But if you retrain the brain via this manner of feedback, it's like, man, that is totally counter to the, you know, drug induced formula that's typically prescribed.

Yeah, 100%.

I try to keep all pharmaceuticals to an absolute minimum only when necessary.

And again, you know, there's a number of these modalities that are out there that are can be just as effective.

So yeah, those are great examples.

So what's the timeline with Brain One?

Like what, what stage are you at now?

Is it live and open to the public or what's the next milestone there?

Yeah.

So we still have a gated, we're allowing people in just on a cohort basis.

Our major focus has been working with practitioners, longevity clinics, more progressive functional doctors that have been looking for, again, these types of protocols to give to their clients.

So that's really where we've been focused.

That's been the core revenue model.

And then the goal is to open this up and, you know, give away the core protocols to humans and then, you know, we make money off of subscription and, and, you know, essentially selling the programs themselves.

Very cool.

And what what's the tentative timeline for that'll be opened up?

Yeah.

So we're, I mean we're testing right now I think open to the public roughly 3 months is what we're thinking.

You know, we've been in beta now about a year, and so we're just, you know, rigorously testing and making sure we can build the best product that we possibly can.

But we're working with a number of clinicians from really across the United States at this stage and we're live in a number of markets.

Very cool, man.

It's exciting.

It makes it more accessible.

Like convenience is, is such a paramount thing with, you know, adherence.

And I feel like this would just strip the barrier of entry from a convenience standpoint in so many ways.

That's it, you know, and it's just making sure the human does the thing that they commit to do, you know, which is the toughest, you know, myself included, you know, we all go through these patterns where sometimes it's the focus, sometimes it's not.

But at least giving someone a framework to follow, you know, again, like dementia prevention, Lancet 2020 is an example.

If all of our parents and grandparents knew these basic principles that may impact their behavior and thereby help exacerbate millions of dementia cases.

So education, you know, is is really paramount to that.

What it what is a?

Yeah, one more for you, man.

What What is a habit that you want to and recognize the value in implementing for yourself but really struggle with?

So cold plunging, but in particular cold plunging in the shower so I can go into the river, I can go into the ocean.

Like I can go into a full body cryo like a tank.

But if I have to do a like a shower based cold plunge, it's brutal for me.

Like, yeah, my cold plunge.

Scenarios same way man, like cuz I've got a like my cold plunge is just a freaking horse through that works really great during the winter time, but not worth the during during the summer.

So my cold plunge is on point during the winter months, but during the summer it's like, man, I need a cold plunge and I'm just gonna bite the bullet and make one or buy one.

Yeah, I mean, you know, nowadays are so cheap you can get one like you know, like a stand alone, you know, I mean a couple 100 bucks.

But yeah, I would say.

Though, man, I think like there's been a like Huberman's talked about, there's certain conjectures to how much it impacts, you know, testosterone and inflammation, things like that.

But all of that aside, I think like the psychological benefit of just doing that first thing in the morning is in and of itself totally worth it.

I completely agree, I think it's game changing.

Another one for me is again, sweat, but specifically either sauna or doing a, you know, a a heated exercise of some quarts like that has been absolutely game changing.

You have a sauna at your place.

We do, yeah.

We have one upstairs and then I do the hot Pilates 3 or 4 days a week and that's like, you know, usually 20 for for sweating.

Do you do the contrast therapy when you're doing it at your home, sauna and.

Yeah, yeah.

We have a cold plunge and a sauna, so just depending, try to do both, although I, you know, still prefer the river.

Actually, you know, we're doing it live, so don't use it as much as I might.

But again, it just depends on the schedule.

Nice.

I did.

AI was in New York for a while at a conference that that like a Russian, like a traditional Russian bath house there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it was, I was definitely out of place, like, I've got this, my southern draw going, everybody else to speak in Russian, I'm probably in the middle of the Russian mob, who knows.

And they got it cranked way up.

Then we transitioned from that to the cold plunge.

And then we'd go back and forth like 3 times.

And man, the first time I went from the sauna to the cold plunge, I got so dizzy I almost passed out.

I'm like this is not not normal.

Yeah, those, I mean, I've done this same exact protocols.

I love that.

Honestly, I think it's great and I think it really builds.

I think you, you know, you do get better at it the more you do.

But yeah, those first few times could be brutal.

And they are incredibly hot.

And then they like whip you with like the branches.

Is that the experience, right, which includes, you know, increase the circulation and so forth.

And then jumping into the cold, which is like, you know, 40° or something crazy so.

But I walked out of that man so relaxed, like it was like a.

100%.

It was a euphoric man.

I was just so relaxed.

I could have slept for two days afterwards, probably.

Yeah, again, regulation of that parasympathetic, like I've seen it myself, you know, with friends who are going through something, you get them in a cold plunge and take them to the river.

It's like, you know, come out a different person.

So and that's something you can do for free, you know, depending on where you, you know, where you're living, or at least in a cold shower.

So those are the types of, you know, areas that we're focusing on for accessibility.

Totally agree, ma'am.

Well, Speaking of Pagosa Springs, you know you're in Colorado.

I was doing that because they got the Hot Springs there.

So I would finish that as the hunting trip every year.

We'd we'd go in, do the Hot Springs and we'd jump in the river and just transition back and forth.

And that was like the perfect end cap to a hunting trip.

Yeah, I haven't, I haven't done Pagosa.

I've been down there.

But yeah, there's a a bunch of Hot Springs up and down that range and same thing.

They're on rippers.

And yeah, that's perfect example of a natural contrast therapy.

Yeah, super cool, man.

Well, I'm stoked for what you got going to brain one, man.

Three months is no time at all.

So once it goes live, will you like send out an e-mail to everybody that subscribes to the list?

And yeah, we've got you, Robert, and keep you in the loop and appreciate your efforts and all the things you're doing and, you know, putting nutrition and health first.

And anyway, Queen support, please let us know.

Likewise, man, everybody listen that wants to get more information, just go to brain1.com.

Yep, Brain .1 and actually Brain .1 and Yep.

Sign up for the wait list.

Mention your name, we'll put them to the front of the list.

Awesome man.

Well I do appreciate throwing.

Keep killing a man, keep changing lives, and if there's anything I can do for you, just let me know.

OK.

I appreciate it, Robert.

Thank you so much.

Hey, man.