Hello, Hello, good afternoon everyone.

Welcome to Banner and Backbone.

I'm Nick Perow.

This is Powerful Voices.

I am joined by my good friend and colleague, Zevshalev of Narrative dot Org.

Zev, it's good to see you.

Great to see you, Nick, Thanks for having me on.

Yeah.

Absolutely, And we are joined today on this episode of Powerful Voices with Jen Bud, former Border Patrol senior Border Patrol agent and expert author and someone who has a lot of insights and knowledge that are going to be really valuable going forward.

And I wanted to bring her on to see what she has to say about everything that's happened since well since the administration took over, but since Renee Nicole Goods murder and the response, specifically around the response and how that's handled in the extra judiciality of it and legalities things.

But I want to have Jen, if you can introduce yourself, and we'll get into the discussion about, like I said, DHS and the culture, and you talked about the green light to kill that has now been turned on, and I want to talk about that as we go forward.

So Jen, welcome and please introduce yourself to the audience for us.

Well, thank you for the invite.

I guess just in general.

I tell you I joined the United States Border Patrol in June of nineteen ninety five.

You got to remember, we did not have internet back then, not like this, and I didn't know a damn thing about it.

I'm from Alabama.

I didn't know anything about the southern border.

I had just graduated college, was on my way to law school to be a civil rights attorney, and I joined this thing called the Border Patrol.

I only served six years, and like most women in the Border Patrol, I was hazed in with a sexual assault.

I'll tell you, prove how strong you are and how you become what they call one of the fierce five percent because we only make up five percent of the force.

I was stationed in Campo, California, and then I rose to the rank of a senior Patrol Agent, which is the highest rank you can reach before going into management.

Did a little bit of stints in management, but then I resigned because I couldn't stand the corruption any more.

And I resigned in protest and I said I couldn't do this anymore because your management was so corrupt, and I left and I did about fourteen years learning how to do custom cabinetry before I had a massive suicide attempt from not dealing with my time in the Border Patrol.

And then I decided to deal with my time in the Border Patrol.

And so since twenty fifteen, I've been doing this kind of work.

And then I've just become like an expert because I read everything I can find about the Border Patrol and I know so much about the past and the history.

So well, Jen, thanks for being with us, Sef.

I'm just really curious that Jen, you know, I mean, listen to your story.

There there's so many questions.

But the Border Patrol that you were talking about that you joined years ago is not ICE today.

Obviously it's a very you know, the Border Patrol is a very different entity.

But ICE has also become this new entity as well.

How different is it today from what you u when you joined it?

Well, I would say that the technology has obviously changed.

We didn't have that as much excuse me, and obviously didn't get paid as much money as these guys do now.

But the roots of where we are now existed back then, and it started with the Terrence policies that were brought to us by Bill Clinton, and that's how we got to this point.

But the culture is exactly the same.

The cover up teams that I experienced, the illegal cover up teams that have existed in the Border Patrol since nineteen eighty seven are exactly the same.

I look at the Renee Good shooting and I see that, and then what's important for people to understand is there's three separate agencies.

There's CBP, ICE and Border Patrol.

Border Patrol is located underneath CBP, but it is a separate agency.

Border Patrol has overtaken CBP in this second Trump administration.

They are now the head of CBP.

Our chiefs are now leading CBP as well as ICE, so we've taken over.

Did you say cover story or what is it cover ups or something like that?

You mentioned cover up teams?

Yeah, oh, what is that?

I didn't do any anything about.

That, called critical incident teams.

There's an HBO film out right now that I'm in a little bit, and it's how we expose these teams and got them.

Unfortunately, we got them disbanded.

That was good out of the Border Patrol.

The Biden administration agreed they were illegal and never had the right to exist.

And what they did is they showed up on the scenes like the Good shooting, immediately and messed with the evidence and made the evidence what they wanted to be.

A Border Patrol agent has ever been convicted or successfully prosecuted for killing anybody an American or a migrant in the over one hundred and one years of its existence.

So we've had a lot of cover ups, and before you know the team has existed, we were doing it in other ways and stuff.

So this was instinctial.

This was not a thing that we're given to this particular incident.

This is an instinctial reaction to when something goes wrong, they put in their their their cover team and if they go lying about the story and hiding the hiding the truths.

Yes, And you have to understand that after nine to eleven, the Border Patrol had heavy influence in the creation of CBP as well did Customs as well.

But we had have a lot of influence in CBP, We had a lot of influence in creating ICE.

Like the shooter in the Good Case, agent Jonathan Ross is an ex Border Patrol agent and that's that that's quite normal within it within the ICE agency because agents are in the Border Patrol.

When you first join, you have to serve on the southern border most of the time.

Occasionally there's exceptions, and then a lot of the agents want to get more towards the center of the United States, which will require them to join ICE, and so they join ICE.

So it sounds like, obviously this is a cultural thing for these agencies.

Is how did that?

How do how would that impact say Jonathan Ross himself, because I want to know a little bit more about like what made possibly made this man so angry because his response after murdering a woman and I'm gonna all bleep myself on this was fucking blank and B word and I'm not gonna call her that.

I'll bleep myself on that because that's horrendous.

He murdered a woman and then fucking then swore at her her dead or her corpse.

And how is this like a culture within border patrol?

Is this the culture of border patrol?

This sort of murderous intent or sort of extra judicial leaning that they feel they have because there's never been a conviction.

Yes, that is absolutely what it is down here on the southern border.

These Critical Incident Teams have covered up crime after crime after crime, and when they do that, they've become quite the celebrity within the border patrol, and it's always a good shoot in their minds.

They have to understand to you to so, prior to nine to eleven, agents like me are called old patrol, and then after nine to eleven is the new patrol, and a lot of the new patrol, especially nowadays, and certainly the people they're hiring nowadays.

You have to understand that they came in with the idea of what ICE became.

At the time.

The whole reason why ICE was developed was to create a Muslim registry and to then go after what they considered to be criminal aliens.

But to add this terrorist aspect to immigration enforcement, and what a lot of people forget is it was the immigration agents who allowed those terrorists into the country in the first place, and they've never apologized for it.

So in fact, a year after the the nine to eleven attacks, when they were dead back then, the agency was called Immigration Naturalization Service, which is what I was under.

They actually a year after uh the event, they actually mailed them renewals of their basis so they could stay in the country.

That's how bad the agency was WOW and Border Patrol was underneath I N S.

And so what you have to understand about this agent is he's grown he's grown up after probably nine to eleven, he has all that in his frame of mind.

At the same time, what you need to understand is in probably the last couple of last decade more so is well, right after nine to eleven, they changed the hiring practices and they started really trying to focus on people who were right wing Christians fundamentalists, and they were really focusing on wanting people who had that right wing ideology.

Then we go to like probably about the last decade.

What we see down here on the southern border are a lot of Christian churches that have popped up that cater to Border Patrol agents and tell them that they are heroes.

But what you have to understand is a lot of Border Patrol agents are hired with crimes in their background as bad as sexual assault.

A lot of the Border Patrol has hired cartel members.

The Border Patrol has hired undocumented people who have is into the ranks higher than I was a supervisor position and been there for thirteen years.

And a lot of the agents can barely quite honestly, even read and write, and they don't understand a lot of I was very shocked because I had a four year degree.

Just the absolute inability to understand law and basically down here, it's just kind of the cross you catch them.

It's about beating ass pretty much is what it's about.

You know.

Oh yeah, I've been screaming about this for years and I'm so happy people are finally seeing it.

But it's like, you know, and like I said, the sexual assaults against the women.

If they're doing that to their own female agents, what do you think they're doing to migrants and children?

But these churches down here, they recognize that a lot of the agents are criminal themselves.

And what they tell him they quote Isaiah six' eight and that is actually a video That Chief, bovino the one who's running the raids in the, cities just put out as a video where he has an agent Quoting isaiah six.

Eight and essentially what happens In isaiah six eight is he goes to The lord To, god This christian out of The, bible and he, says you, KNOW i want to serve, you But i'm not worthy.

Enough and a chair up comes and cleanses his sins with a hot cold to his lips and that.

Cleanses so now he's.

Worthy so they feel if they go to these churches and then they become.

Worthy but at the same, time he says To, god what is it that you need of?

Me And god, SAYS i need, you basically to lay waste to this city that is, sinful that is full of.

Sin and he, SAYS i need you to close your eyes and close your ears and look the other way at what is required of.

You and so they feel, that, yeah they're.

Corrupt and this is how they See Donald, trump and this is why they're so infatuated With Donald trump is, yes he's, sinful he's, fallen he's done so many but at the same, time he's Serving god and doing what we need to.

Do and a lot of the agents in this agency really believe.

This and at the same time this all wraps.

In you got to understand that after nine to, eleven the time that these men are going men and, women but mostly, men are going through high.

School at the time they're in high, school they're Attending Turning POINT usa rallies at their high schools And Charlie kirk came to these churches down here and told, them you're going to be asked to do to do things that you wouldn't normally.

Do i'm throwing stuff at my dog to make her not.

Bark and And Charlie kirk said to, them we will get rid of the illegal, problem the undocumented, people if we can stomach.

It those were his.

Words that's how bad it was supposed to be.

Then.

And then he said the real problem we have are the people who are here legally and the people who don't agree with.

Us and so then you fast forward To department Of Homeland security and The president putting out That National security document in an executive order stating now that domestic terrorists are people who, have in their, words extreme views on gender SO, lgbtq and also extreme views on.

Migration so Miss good met two of.

Those she had a gaysticker on the back even and if the guy didn't identify with her as, that and you notice when he walks past, her he's not even listening to, her and he's so, angry he's so.

Angry and that is the, training and that is the atmosphere that these agents are working, in and they believe that their.

Cause according to according to even the head OF, cbp which is Former Chief Rodney, scott who's one of the most corrupt agents we've ever, had they really believe this, stuff and they believe that they are turning this nation back to A christian nation and that everything will be great once they get rid of all these undocumented people and so.

Forth they know they know that the vast majority of the people they're arresting are not.

Criminals they know that the vast majority of people that they rest on the southern, border only about maybe one percent are actual violent criminals that have records and.

Stuff and in, fact the agents since twenty, eighteen and at least in The Border, patrol as a, population they commit more violent crimes every year As i've been tracking it since twenty, eighteen they commit more violent crimes as a population than the people they are.

Arresting isn't that?

Interesting so you're saying that they approached the car knowing the identity Of Renee.

Good do you think that they were aware of who she?

Was in terms of the surveillance capability that they.

Have they now have so much technology at they've disposed.

Of they've got these facial recognition.

Devices they've got this huge palanteer system that gives them all this profiling around every person that's.

There do you think that they might have known who they were approaching and maybe that was the anger that they were approaching the car With.

They could Have we don't know that because you notice every time they approach, people they're putting their cameras in their, face and their government camera phones have a link to that technology that platforms so they can find people right.

Away and we don't know what the before thing before the video.

Starts we don't know other than the agents were saying that she was following them around all.

Day but they also, lie as we've, seen they lie about, everything so we don't know if they know.

That but WHAT i am saying from What i've seen is as they get out of the, car they're going to look at that woman and the fact that she has a partner and probably assume they're.

Gay but then they also see the sticker on the.

Back but at the same time they're harassing.

Them and the green light THAT i was talking about is This National security executive order that's listed all these, people so THAT mimo came out or that excuse.

Me executive order came Out september twenty fifth of last.

Year and then you look at When mary Mar, martinez the woman In chicago who was shot five times by AN ice agent and then they had to drop the charges against her because she did not ran.

Them they rammed.

Her she did Not she did have a, gun but she had a license to carry a gun and it was in her.

Purse she didn't draw it on, them and so they lied about all.

That so within weeks of, that i want to, say within two weeks of that executive order coming out labeling people who are opposed to what they're doing as domestic, terrorists then they start shooting the people who are trying to warn neighbors about what is going.

On so now FOLLOWING, ice honking your, horn blowing whistles can now get you.

Shot and now we fast forward to we see and they've done it to a couple other people as, well but more so now we see that this happens To Miss.

Good so what he has in his mind is she's a domestic.

Terrorist whether he truly believes that or, not they've been given the green light to see her as.

That we've really seen a shift in the last twenty four hours here between what they were saying ON sun ON lfe last, week which, was excuse, me domestic terrorism and this woman was ramming, them accelerating and ramming these.

Officers Now Donald trump is saying that they, were you, know they were disrespectful to these, agents because that's the new excuse that they've come up, with as if it was okay to shoot someone in the face three, times if you're being disrespectful to.

Them you, know that's The president really blessing that.

Thinking and what you're describing as, well this domestic you, know terrorism charge which he's putting on almost anyone who doesn't agree with him or comes from a different, background is really kind of terrifying in the context of the fact that they've, got you, know millions and millions of dollars being poured into this.

Agency this agency is being.

Supersized, yeah, absolutely and and they are all.

In they are all in for.

This AND i think one of the most important things that people need to understand is that as they moved FROM la To, chicago To, Minneapolis New, Orleans, charlotte these are cities where The republicans think that they're going to have a hard time holding on to votes and so WHAT i UNFORTUNATELY i help them.

Wrong but WHAT i anticipate is that when it comes voting, season when the midterms, come they will not only that they're making people of color fearful to go out and, vote but at the same, TIME i think what we're going to see is we're going to see you, know some people like to go vote in, person or in some states you need to go do.

THAT i.

Don't i'm In california and we can vote by.

Mail but you're going to see them coming up to people standing in, lines GOING i don't think you're a.

CITIZEN i don't think you're a.

Citizen, now the way you determine somebody's as they say it In Border Patrol, academy their alienage of what country they're, from is you walk up to them and you ask, them and you decide as an agent whether you believe them or.

Not that's all there is to.

It there's NO id really other than a, passport which but those all documents could be, faked and you see a lot of agents say, oh those are fake and this and, not even though they're not.

Fake so there's no real way to tell somebody's citizenship other than talking to, them and it's an agent's judgment of, that and it's done usually right on the.

Spot but what they've started to do differently is they, go you, know like, say IF i see you walking down the, street and let's say you're a person of, color And i'm, like, Oh i'm going to stop and talk to.

You i'm not even going to ask your.

CITIZENSHIP i feel threatened by all these people blowing whistles around.

Me i'm going to put you in handcuffs and throw you in my car And i'm gonna drive you probably anywhere from two to ten miles, away and THEN i will determine your.

Citizenship that is Actually i'm not an, attorney But i've been told by attorneys recently and a lot of Interviews i've been doing that kind of that kind of violates the are you necessarily arrested or?

Not and so then if they find you're a, citizen then you kick them.

Out there's even a video of them throwing some guys documents at, them his his IDs because they're so mad that he's actually a, citizen and so they will do.

That well by the time that, Happens, oh the voting this are.

Closed, well that's just too, bad isn't.

IT i think it'll be worse obviously once we get towards twenty twenty, eight if there even is an, election AND i doubt it will.

Be, Yeah SO i.

LIVE i live In, arkansas where it's less announced WHEN ice shows, up but it happens quite quite a.

Lot arkansas is one of the higher rates per.

CAPITA i think we have like the third or fourth highest rate of arrests related TO, ice basically at facilities Because arkansas just.

Let's, yeah they, cooperate.

Sheriffs and they.

Cooperate they left sheriffs and police officers go are you a?

Citizen?

No, okay well you're now in ICE's, hands and they just ship them.

Over Benton county has the highest in like the third highest in the country of.

Arrests it's fucking.

Ridiculous what can we?

Do what is a suggestion from you on things that we can do when we come to voting, season because we have to be we have to prepare well ahead of time to create safety, networks to create systems of.

Support what do we?

Do what is the best thing that in your mind that we could do as a community of, citizens to ensure that people who don't look like us, necessarily or even people who look like you stand you may stand out in a, location or people who look like meat times with big earrings in and painted.

Fingernails and what do we do to make others safe while we're at in a voting booth or in the line to the voting, Booths and how do we protect our communities without risk there's going to be a risk of, violence but how do we do it without Inciting, WELL i.

Think the one of the main things is we all need to be extremely active in our city councils and our county boards and so, forth and we need to start addressing this right.

Now we're afraid that they're going to come and take us out of line when we try and, vote and we're afraid that they're going to be.

Violence the issue is for, me as far as my understanding, is is that voting is a state's rights.

Issue so your local police officers and your sheriffs should be protecting the.

Voters but the problem is is your people are taking money from.

THEM i would also start working on finding out how much money they're.

Taking one of the problems THAT i see is a lot of our local police and sheriffs are trained BY.

DHS dhs offers.

Grants the only reason why these little podunk AND i can say this is an ALABAMAAN i Know.

Arkansas these little pot towns In arkansas are dressed like they're going To fallujah's because they're taking federal.

Money and and so you want to try and break that that that.

Relationship you also want to tell them AND i would flat out flat out tell your cops, like these guys aren't.

Cops they're not real.

Cops they're not peace.

Officers immigration agents are not peace.

Officers they do not have the right to stop you for vehicle, infractions for traffic.

Infractions they they can stop you if they see you committing a felony in front of, them but other than, that they they can't stop you unless they suspect you of being an, undocuted undocumented.

Immigrant and usually that's why they're going after people of.

Color so you have to start laying the seeds and letting your your people, there who are your, leaders know we're not going to tolerate.

This we're not going to let this.

Happen it doesn't necessarily help you at the end of the.

DAY i, mean these guys will have a lot of.

Authority now in these, states you've got the federal, government the president saying you've got, immunity unqualified immunity for these.

People you, Know christino is out there denying the reality that we're.

Seeing and you, know it's what bothers me so, much is this permission.

Structure we're allowing people to commit violent acts only for one part of the political.

Spectrum it's not like you can be on the left and do these.

Acts you can only commit these violence acts if you're doing it For Donald.

Trump.

Yeah AND i you know another THING i would suggt BECAUSE i always tell, people you, know, obviously Well i'm saying now that all forms of resistance are.

Needed OBVIOUSLY i always have to recommend no violence and so.

Forth but one of the things that you notice when you watch these videos is that icebacks down when they feel, overwhelmed when there's too many.

People AND i think when it comes to voting, DAY i think all of us who either vote by mail or have already, voted or they look like me and it's not going to be a problem or, whatever then you stay.

There you stay there all, day and you create protection around, them five, deep ten, deep whatever it, is and you surround that line and you do not allow them to get to.

Them they.

Can't they can't take all of.

Us and we are, way, way way more than they.

Are they just want you to think that they are bigger than they.

Are they're.

Not they'll probably bring in the.

MILITARY i don't know what's going to happen with.

That it's we have seen the military recently say no to The greenland, invasion but yes to The venezuelan.

INVASION i don't know what they're going to.

SAY i think they're going to have a hard.

Time some people will obviously go for, it and that's been a, problem and that presidents in the past on both sides have been allowing The board Of patrol to train with the, military so they're they're getting their ideology set into the.

MILITARY a lot of agents now are former, military So i'm not sure what's going to happen with a.

Military but my suggestion is that after you, vote you.

Stay you stay the whole day as much as you, can and if you if you're not going to vote or what or or you've already, voted you go down there and you and you help guard and protect your local citizens that are also trying to.

Vote so go.

AHEAD i was going to ask quickly about the training portion of it because one of the things That i've covered previously With Melissa, corrigan who is another, veteran she's A NAVY, vat and we've we've talked a lot about transition services for.

Veterans there is an or for.

Servicemen there's a skill bridge program for transitioning service members who are still on active duty during the last one hundred and eighty days of their service.

Contract and we found that there is a policy that for the first time, ever the military is PUSHING dhs AND ice specifically as a location that you can go during your skill bridge.

Program is this something that you have any experience knowing about in, like how many active duty service members possibly try?

This is this something that they really want because this brings culture from the military and training INTO, ice and then they can be recalled back into the military because they're still on active duty service and they could just re up their contract after say one hundred and seventy nine days of just Going i'm going to GET ice training on how to kill somebody in with a luxury you is there are there rules that you know of on THE ice OR dhs side that is supposed to prohibit the actions of what active service members can and should be, doing because there are on the military side on THE DoD, side BUT i don't know IF ice is encouraging them to do things that they know they shouldn't.

Be, YEAH ice will encourage them to do.

Everything AND i would, say without saying too, MUCH i know for a, FACT i mean it's been over the, years but especially right, now THE DoD is working WITH ice in their facilities and working with migrants and stuff that they shouldn't be doing that we're going to be very embarrassed about one.

Day and THE DoD is very much on board with all of.

This THE DoD is the one back in nineteen ninety four that developed the deterrence.

Policies is set over eighty thousand migrants to their deaths out here instead of just you, know processing.

PEOPLE i don't know much about the programs that they, have BUT i do know that SINCE i left the, agency a whole lot of militaries in, THERE i mean upwards of overwhel over.

PROBABLY i THINK i heard a chief the other day saying LIKE i want to, say thirty seven thirty eight percent of their agency now is former.

Military and you can tell who is former military because they're allowed to wear the brown boots versus agents like me who were just border.

Patrol we only wear black.

Boots it's a big.

Give and also WHAT i noticed too WHEN i left the, agency which WAS i was, like why are they wearing all this?

CAMO i, mean it just seemed really.

Weird AND i can tell their operations and how they view the.

BORDER i MEAN i used to walk up and down the border road all the time and drive up and down it no problem most of the time without a, vest although THAT i don't recommend.

That but.

And these agents today they treat the migrants as enemy.

Combatants so there's a lot of training that they've had In iraq And afghanistan that has filtered into The Border patrol, specifically but also INTO ice AND.

Cbp and then at the same, time you see The Border patrol has tried to steal a lot of the military's.

Valor so now you'll see when they go on we usually call it when you have to go somewhere and work for a.

Month we would call that a, detail but now they call it a, tour so they've even adopted their, vocabulary and they get metals and stuff of where they went and all.

This it's just the most bizarre Thing i've ever.

Seen and you'll see our chiefs walking around in military style, fatigues even though we are not the.

Military we are a civilian law enforcement.

Agency so the constant blurring of the military with civilian policing is constant down, here and so you're going to see it in your cities and it's going to confuse.

You but also as well as Like Peace Officer, authority which is Our SHERIFF'S fbi are a police, department they have what's Called Peace Officer, authority And Border PATROL cbp AND ice have immigration.

Authority they're supposed to have limited, authority but under The Terror, mission which they added after nine to, eleven then they've kind of just blended all this stuff together and it's very confusing and nobody's really fighting it in the.

Courts one more quick question on this before, zep Then i'll let you take some questions here Is i'm a prior army human intelligence.

COLLECTOR i understand that THEY'RE i know where some of the forts are and, bases AND i know what some of the person is a distributions look like on some of those, bases based on my prior experience of where units are.

Located have you or did you or do you know of any time that A Us army an interrogator has been used on a person who has been detained by ice within our country's borders or can you not.

SAY i don't know of.

THAT i don't know of, that but if you tell me that that, HAPPENS i would probably be, like, yeah, sure, SO i, mean because they're just doing, whatever, honestly whatever they want right, now and they're absolutely violating The constitution and all the.

Laws they don't, Care.

OKAY i say.

THAT i asked that question because it is illegal for interrogators within the military to act WITHIN us borders on persons OF us.

Status because we are an external.

Force the, military especially interrogators are for enemies of the state outside THE.

Us counterintelligence is for inside THE.

Us there's a very subtle, difference but it's highly illegal for an interrogator to interrogate somebody in THE, us AND i wouldn't be surprised if they were doing it in some of these, bases especially In, texas Because i've heard of some locations that are partnering WITH dhs AND ice for detention.

Centers but also the test like testing scares, me or in terms of what they may be doing for medical testing or just abuse towards these.

INDIVIDUALS i think the other thing that scares me to Is i've noticed that As bovino goes around to these different democratic cities In chicago and, stuff they're actually staying on military.

Base so that that's no bueno right.

There that's really.

Bad not THAT i don't you, KNOW i respect the military and, everything but the fact that immigration is just so like with, them it's just not.

Good it's not.

Good you've described a force here that, is you, know blessed by their local, churches their their, priests sought ever to do whatever they want in the name Of.

God you've also described people who are treating their their targets as enemy, combatants although these are people who are who are trying to cross over, illegally except that this force is now turned inwards Into.

America it's now facing you, know it's Facing american civilians on a day to day, basis and you, know if they're if they're so used to treating people like enemy, combatants then it's no surprise that they approach an a goods car in that, way because that is not the way any officer Would, normally any law abiding officer would approach a car for there are safety and for anyone else's.

Safety they wouldn't do.

That but in this, case they approached it like they were hunting down an.

Enemy it looked like.

That and you Had Renee good with her hands visible at all, times obviously not holding a, weapon deconflicting the situation as much as she.

COULD i, mean they're, Saying i'm not mad at, you, dude and then they shoot.

Her so if you just take, this you, know multiply it now by the amount of money and size of this force is going to be, growing you, know the chances of this happening again are quite.

High and the fact that they've lowered the, STANDARDS i mean even the.

Border so the one thing that The Border patrol had over the other two agencies is it was very physically.

Demanding BUT i mean even AFTER i graduated the, academy they started dropping the, requirements at least on the physical.

Requirements AND i mean now these these these people can basically walk like a mile and a half and become A Border patrol.

Agent AND i mean the time that they are in the, academy they've cut in.

Half and the academy rates were, horrible horrible to begin.

With WHEN i look at how they approach that, vehicle it's obvious to me they don't see her as a real.

Threat they just walk up and start grabbing.

In they're not you, know taking cover or.

Anything they're, like they're going to show what it.

Is WHAT i see is they're going to teach them a.

Lesson is how is WHAT i?

See AND i you, know WHEN i Watch Agent ross walk, around he's supposedly a firearms.

Instructor he has over ten years In border patrol and ice and so he has a lot of training and he actually teaches agents proper technique with guns and how to walk around vehicles and be.

Around so WHEN i see him go to the back of the vehicle and he's right up against the bumper you know video in, things well that's number, one that's a.

Problem he's violating you, know peron by standing behind the vehicle so.

Close then he goes around the other side and he's practically like right up against the hood as he's.

Walking so that's number.

Two and THEN i could SEE i don't see.

Him, yeah he's in front of the vehicle when he, crosses but when he actually, shoots it looks because he's right.

Handed that's the other THING i.

Saw he's carrying his phone in his right hand and his gun is on his right.

Hip he only switches once he decides he's gonna draw down on, her and that's when he's right in front of, her and he's actually just to the outside of the fender and actually has to he reaches over like this to shoot and kind of leans into the car and over the, hood but he's still kind of right on that.

Corner he's not actually in, front and her wheels are turned and you see the first bullet goes in the very corner of her driver's side front.

Window so that's why the bullet is.

There and maybe someday we'll see the, trajectory BUT i think that's what you're gonna see is where he's.

Standing he's actually right at the corner of the driver's side in the front and leans over to get that, shot and then the next two shots are through the window apparently is WHAT i.

Saw, yeah he really reached over, this no, doubt and it.

Was, about, yeah the other bad.

Shoot the problem with it is that did you see his partner was right there at the, window reaching, in trying to get her out when he fires that first bullet and his partner goes like like this with his, hand almost like he got a shrapnel.

Hit, Wow and he looks.

At his rob, like what the, fuck?

Dude you know kind of.

Thing, sorry you can BLURT bp that don't.

Here that's the IMPRESSION i.

Got and then on top of, it it's a bad shoot because since twenty, thirteen The Police Executive Research forum report came out telling border which you keep putting allowing your agents to put themselves in these, situations and it causes, Anxiety it causes.

Fear you, know as soon as she saw him draw down on her is when she started hitting the gas to get the hell out of.

There and so he creates he is escalating the violence in that.

Moment he caused that to, happen and it just and the reason why you don't shoot at people in vehicles unless you absolutely have no other choice is because of what.

Happened so her foot probably hit the accelerator as she's losing control of her, body and then she speeds off down the thing because she can't control herself and she can't control the.

Car that only knows who else she could have.

Hit and the truth, is as she's turned into the right once he hits, her she could have let go of the steering wheel and it could have snapped back and she could have hit.

HIM i, mean it's just.

Ridiculous what that so.

And safe and the, disrespect of course is not you, know The president keeps talking about they were disrespectful to the offices and the.

AGENTS i, mean the disrespect to To Renee good is.

Remarkable they just surrounded her with, masks grabbed her her handle of a, door try to open the, door forcefully telling her to get, out recircling the.

CAR i, mean this is a very threatening situation for.

Anybody so you can see why she would try and get away from that.

Situation and even so she was.

REVERSING i, mean there was such she was so clearly trying to avoid any conflict and they were just surrounding her with this.

Tension you.

Know the other thing that's really Striking Sorry, Good i'm.

Sorry my opinion of, that knowing Knowing Border patrol, agents KNOWING cbp AND ice, agents is that they really were tired of these, women however long that they were following and blowing their whistles and this and, that and especially her wife when she was, like go eat a, sandwich or go ahead the lunch boy and this and, that and he took offense to.

That and there's nothing that a lot of these border patrol agents hate more than undocumented.

Immigrants it's.

Women they really do not like.

Women and that's why we're hayes like we, are and this and, that and you have a specific role when you're in these, agencies and to cross that role and to cross these, men forget about, it forget about.

It so, YEAH i think they were teaching her a.

Lesson and if you watch THAT hbo Documentary Critical, incident it's also On Amazon prime if you have that That i'm in this case from twenty.

Ten the reason why they killed this, Man anastasio Ornandoz.

Rojats they beat him to death and taste him to, death and there was video of that, too and they still got away with it was because he demanded that they take him to a doctor after they injured his foot where he had previous, surgery and he, said, now don't put me back At mexico and they were trying to shove him across and he did want to.

Go they beat him because they thought he was an, uppitty uppity migrant and they watched genial lesson AND i feel that that's what they did to these.

Women that's WHAT i see WHEN i look at.

That and the saddest thing about the structure of all this and the.

Film so the killing Of anaslasio happened in twenty ten and the chief at that time who led the cover up Was Chief Rodney.

Scott he is now the commissioner OF.

Cbp oh, wow that's.

Terrifying.

Yeah CAN i have to throw you one more question?

Here it's tied shoolder.

This there is this fundraiser that was set up ON gif Send go a, company by the, way it's not to do a Typical american company that does these sort of.

Things it's A i think it's run out Of.

China but it's also it's raising money for the agent who Killed Renee.

Good so he's The Jonathan ross, Right and in there is this unusual line where they describe The minneapolis, Mayor Jacob, frye who told them to get the fuck out Of.

Minneapolis it says in, parenthesis you, know it says the mayor who Is.

Jewish and then you, KNOW i don't no one really understands the context of why they would put that who Is jewish in, there but it's certainly you, know you talk about the ANTI lgbtq, element you talk about the fact that they view immigrants as being enemy.

Combatants they even use the word parasites in this fundraiser as well in the referring to.

Immigrants and the other thing about it is they talk about a purge in all these, cities you, know like almost like this Very nazi like language it's being.

Used that sounds to me like this is kind of the, culture this is the culture that it's all these.

Things, Yeah and in the.

Border, patrol we have a different word for the, migrants the undocumented.

MIGRANTS a lot of times we call them.

Illegals but we have a different word, because as you've, seen a lot of our agents are Like, tino and so the white agents do not want to call them the typical racist terms that we say In, america and so we have our own and it's talk T o N k or T o N.

C and we're told to lie to people if they hear us saying it that people who are not you, know within the.

Agency we're told to, say, oh it means temporarily out of native country or true origin not, known and that's a.

Lie the truth is it is the sound our flashlights make when we hit them in the.

Head oh, gosh that's what we call.

Them and the and The latino agents regularly use.

This there's a part in my BOOK i wrote about my time in The Border, patrol a part in my book Where i'm arguing with My latino classmate who's upset because he tells me that his parents came here.

Undocumented AND i, said, oh your parents are talks and he's, like, ah that's so, racist And I'M i do use this word every.

Day what are you talking, about you?

Know and he was, like, oh it's different back, then And i'm, like, oh For god's, sake you.

Know AND i, MEAN i knew WHEN i was saying that it was, racist but, yeah they justify they justify that.

Somehow I'm I'M i would, say the person who's put up this this go fund me or whatever it is that you have that you're talking a.

Goal there's also a, god a couple of goats on me As i've seen.

Too what's interesting to me is that this agent is not going to be out any.

Money his union attorneys are going to provide his defense for, him and even if he is, Convicted Donald, trump if he's still, president is probably going to pardon him and will probably give him an award and all these other.

Things there's no reason to give this man any.

Money he's you, know it doesn't make any.

Sense that's why the dog whistle is, so you know that The jewish dog.

Whistle it seems to me like it's it's a real rallying cry for people to fund whatever it is they're funding through these go fund.

Mes, yeah but it's basically funding a what feels to me like like a.

Stopo, BASICALLY i, MEAN i might be overreaching.

Area, no, no, no you're not, overreaching BECAUSE i, mean you, know they have very new camp AND i want to say It's montana or something like.

That these big giant camps warehouses that they're, making they've already had two deaths in.

Them SO i mean you might as, well call them death, camps because that's what's.

Happening that's what's.

Happening we've had more death and ice custody than we have ever had in the first year of the second administration For Donald.

Trump SO i, MEAN i Guess i'm not surprised that they put out Anti semitic stuff because in The Border, patrol After GEORGE.

W bush got, elected he allowed them to have.

Chaplains so we have chaplains in The Border, patrol so agents can act as a, chaplain but we don't have emmons and we don't have.

Rabbis so, yeah.

Not a Little jews in the.

FORCE i GUESS i don't.

Recall.

Well the one person THAT i met THAT i knew Was.

Jewish he was my trainee and he was waiting to go to law.

SCHOOL i think he went To George.

Mason he's a smart.

Kid the thing he said to me is he was leaving and turning in his badge and.

Stuff he didn't even make it out of his post academy.

Training he, Said, misbud you're way too smart for.

This you need to get the hell out of.

Here did you do?

Well and you did.

Yeah so so with like with some of the framing that you put in and what you've told us about legality and what they WHAT ice say can and can't.

Do going back to The Renee good murder this week or this past, WEEK i just want just SOME i guess maybe yes or no questions real quick on this is did THE ice officers have legal jurisdiction to apprehend someone who is committing possibly just a vehicular road violation for like blocking the?

Road?

No AND i know you told me yes or, no BUT i just want.

To, qualify please.

Explain, yeah with the fact THAT i was listening to, UH i think that it was the attorney general of that, state and she, said when you actually look at, it she was not blocking, it and she waved other cars.

Through they were allowed to go.

AROUND ice is going to, say you're preventing us from your interfering with our duties and this and that's why we did.

It she was not they she was waving them.

Through they chose to, stop and they chose to address her and confront.

Her, okay thank you for that.

Answer and even if they had justification to say take her out of the.

Vehicle is it standard practice to shoot someone first or to ds or is it supposed to be standard practice to de escalate for if it's someone who doesn't look in their mind like a migrant or an illegal Alien AND i hate that, word but like nor that, phrase but in their, mind if they don't look, illegal would they have any legal justification.

To shoot this.

Woman, No and they don't have any justification to shoot her if they think she's committing a crime unless they think that their lives or someone around them's lives are in.

Danger that is the only justification for using lethal force, only.

Okay AND i asked these things knowing those, answers and knowing the, answers especially after everything we've talked.

About AND i do have one final question on, this because there were three shots, fired and for someone who is a firearms instructor that it's reported That Agent ross was knowing that he would know how to handle himself in a, situation how to position himself in a situation like, this possibly to maintain best, footing because he was he anchored himself in his, footing he anchored himself on the.

Vehicle i've trained in, firearms SO i KNEW i saw what he was doing almost right.

Away he put himself into a good.

Position yep, Not and this would be.

Speculating this is a speculative.

Question do you think it may have been in his intent to murder Both renee and her?

SPOUSE i think in that, MOMENT i feel that his intent was to Murder.

RENEE i believe that that was his that was his.

Intent AND i will SAY i have not Done Border patrol firearms training in a long long.

Time it was probably the most thorough training we had in the, academy like a lot of firearms, training and a lot of The Border patrol, instructors especially if you spend all your time doing, that are really really really good at firearms.

Training AND i was always taught to do what they call a double tap and where you fire off two rounds and then you.

REASSESS i can't say if they're still teaching them, that but a lot of times WHAT i, see and all the different cases That i've, studied is guy see their fire people agency their fire one to two rounds or they completely empty their empty their.

Guns it seemed like he was very much in control when he was doing, this and he knew exactly how many, rounds especially when you see that last one where he literally is reaching in to the window to put another one in her.

Head.

Yeah, YEAH i got the, impression you, know watching watching him walk, away also knowing his, background that he'd had this other incident earlier on In minneapolis where he was dragged by a.

Car it's almost, feels you, know that they sent him in there to exact revenge on what happened to, him that it was sort of you, know they knew he would be obviously triggered by an event which would be kind of, traumatic and you, know just have that person of all people sent into to confront this situation because he came in from, outside like it wasn't there there at that moment he drove, In you, know what would?

Gobal why would they send?

HIM i you, Know i'm not one hundred percent sure that he experienced being drug six months ago because the UNLESS i haven't seen the actual picture of the picture THAT dhs put.

Out do they not have the face blurred on the?

Agent they might.

HAVE i just saw the.

VIDEO i didn't actually see THE i saw the video of the incident which they said was, him but maybe it wasn't.

Him who, Knows maybe it's.

JUST i couldn't tell if that was him the person that was ALL i saw was the picture in the hospital, bed and the man in the hospital bed looked to be pretty fit to.

Me WHEN i look at this, agent he looks pretty porky to.

Me AND i don't say that to be.

Mean i'm a porky.

WOMAN i don't say that to be, mean but, it you, know it just doesn't really look like, him and you should, expect you should question.

Everything these people put out, everything and So i'm not sure that that's.

Him and then, SECOND i would SAY i have been drug hitting drug.

Before it can be quite, traumatic and he should have had time, off he should have had psychological, evaluations he should have been required to go and see a.

THERAPIST i don't know if any of that stuff was.

Done six, months if he's already been, drugs seems kind of fast to come back to this type of what they're, doing these, raids which are getting more and more.

Violent they're very stressful and, chaotic and SO i would not put an agent like.

That the other THING i think needs to happen is he needs to be drug and alcohol.

Tested he should have.

Been what these they'll keep him away from investigators for a minimum of seventy two hours and only let his union attorneys talk to him and his fellow.

Agents so even down here when you get into shooting or, something they will not allow you to talk to the police for seventy two.

Hours and that's so that they could see what the evidence is as the evidence is coming, out and they can figure out how they're going to get their game plan going, on quite, frankly and that's something that's not afforded to regular citizens at.

All, yeah you're allowed to go hide.

Away they whisked him.

Away they actually sent other agents to his house to gather up stuff for, him so they will treat.

Him and you notice they said he was in the hospital and this and.

That that's the other.

Thing whether they're actually injured or, not they'll take him to the hospital to say that they.

Are so they're creating a story the whole.

Time and then the very first thing they do in these cover ups is they get in the press and they start that narrative and they set that narrative.

Immediately and as soon as they say, that that's all their sick offants On Fox news, need that's the only thing that they will.

Hear, oh she tried to run him.

Over Donald trump says she flat out ran him over and drug him on the road and this and.

That so, yeah they won't do any drug tests or alcohol test on.

Him when you go on these, details it's as they, say what happens on detail stays on.

Detail you spend most of your time drunk and doing stuff like.

That you said you spend most of your time drunk doing?

That is that really what goes?

On they're Just, YEAH i.

Did a detail In.

Indio it was the bloodiest DETAIL i ever.

Saw my best friend we were drinking every night to deal with.

That, yeah big time drinking.

Is very different from the military in when you are deployed on.

Mission in the, military you're under what's Called General order number, one which means no, sex no, alcohol and that's oh, no and people from shooting shooting guns off when you're.

Drunk, well they actually arrested, agents at least one agent who left The Broadview ice facility In chicago after duty came.

Out it was totally wasted drinking inside the.

Facilities.

Wow and you've also indicated maybe sexual assaults are, happening all sorts of things like that.

Happening definitely.

Happening definitely, happening.

And bribes are being bribed by people to let them.

Go they will steal their money from, Them they will, steal, yeah everything from.

Them There's i'll tell you another.

Trick there's the thing in The border patrol they call The mexican heart, attack And i'm sure it's In ice.

Too so we have a lot of deaths that happen in custody where we, say, oh they were found in medical, distress and then there's really no information given.

Afterwards and what it is is there's cameras in a lot of the male.

Agents when they want to teach a tonk a, lesson as we would, say they stand with their back in front of the camera so you can't, see and the migrant has this hands handcuffed so he can't, respond and they put pressure on their jugular until they pass, out and then they bring them to and then they do it again and make them pass.

Out is to teach people.

Lesson sometimes they don't revive.

Them and you're talking about murder in some cases, absolutely, Yeah so maybe is that the reason this guy could walk into you know that you would, know but you, know you shoot this woman three times and then walk away looked like it was just another day in the in the, ballpark like just, okay, bye let's roll up.

Everybody we just did our.

Job so, Yeah and on.

That, question will all the other officers that were involved in this, situation will any of them be questioned in any way BY cbp or ice for their?

Actions for, sorry as my dog turns off as the doorbell rank as, say driving away from the scene of a murder after committing murder is in.

It they do that all the.

Time they do that all the.

Time there was a shooting up here In, campbell my old station.

Area three agents themselves right in front of a car they were, chasing got out and the driver was still in the.

Car they put themselves in front of the, car and as soon as he went to try and get around, him they filled him full of.

Lead all the agents left before, that even the sheriff showed.

Up they went back to Mild station down on the, border which is now well now it's housing, military but at the time it was just kind of a processing, center and they sat around and then he, said of course we didn't talk about what happened because we don't want, to you, know.

Contempt come, On they sit around and they talk about what.

Happens so they're all going to get their stories, straight and every single agent will back exactly whatever story they're told to come up.

With, wow this is.

Terrifying you've got these these rabid extremists basically with racist undertones or you think, of you, know call the tongs and.

Parasites is the other way that they've used their Antisemitic they are killing or certainly injuring without with.

Impunity Here they've got no.

Oversight absolutely no one is in any way questioning what's going on or even investigating what's going.

On there's no way to appeal what they're.

Doing there's no way to question what they're.

Doing they're surging thousands of officers or agents into these cities that are much you, know the two thousand or five thousand In, minneapolis that's much bigger than the police force.

There so they take over the entire city and they're, lawless.

And they will destroy your.

Economies so what happens down here on the southern border is as we've militarized the southern, border the towns on both sides of the border or the businesses are dead because nobody wants to come.

Here nobody wants to go down.

There and that's what you're seeing happen in your cities is it'll start with the immigrants having to close down their.

Businesses that's another way to get at the immigrants and to treat them like.

Crap but eventually it closes all the businesses.

Down it's.

Horrible it's horrible for.

Business, yeah this has been such an illuminating.

Discussion we've been screaming down here on the border for so, long and it's, like now y'all finally see.

It we're, LIKE i wish.

We see every day down.

Here every.

Day, YEAH i WISH i had been seeing this and talking about this years ago so THAT i could put my voice into the, discussion Because, god this is fucking, Awful, like.

Yeah this is.

Awful when people say what kind of people get into the, AGENCY i think after nine to, eleven somebody like me couldn't have gotten into the.

Agency And i'll be honest with, YOU i think the only reason WHY i was hired is whoever was doing the.

Hiring my recruiter THOUGHT i was.

Cute that's usually how women get in, there and and a lot of these agents not talking about the new.

Recruiting but a lot of these agents they cannot.

There they cannot get into the, military and they cannot get in police.

Forces and when they get in, here they get they're automatically in.

Training you get over fifty thousand dollars a year, starting and you get healthcare and all this other, stuff the status of the badge and all this other.

Stuff AND i think you, know, now anybody who's looking at what's going on and volunteering for that, job obviously there's a serious problem with you if you think this is.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely LIKE i if you know somebody in your family who's now JOINING ice OR cbp Or Border patrol or any of, them ask, them are ask them outright what their thoughts are on people like ask, them confront them for, it because it's it's not good.

Behavior one more thing as, well as you, know in police departments you're required to take a psychological.

Exam you're not required to in the immigration.

Agencies, wow that's.

Scary and.

With, THAT i think we're going to shift to close the conversation here because we've been just over an hour AND i want to respect everyone's time.

Here we have nearly seven hundred people watching us on.

Substack we have others watching us on YouTube and.

Twitch, jen where can people find you and support the work and the writing that you're doing and the advocacy that you're promoting so that we can get more of this information and this really critical information out.

There so my main platform is on substack and that's Called Borderland.

Talk and THEN i also just recently joined back Blue.

Sky i'm not really fond of social.

Media it aggravates, me BUT i am on Blue.

Sky so now so but substack and Blue.

Sky, okay.

AWESOME i Look against The.

Wall my book is Called against The, Wall My journey from A Border Patrol agent to immigrant rights.

Activists, yeah it's been out for three and a half.

Years so, yeah WELL i think we're Gonna someone dropped the link for it into the.

Chat thank you to whoever you Are karen for dropping that.

IN i appreciate.

IT i will include a link To jen's book in the post show notes so that anyone can go try and easily find, it because it's important we support each.

Other and then shifting over TO uzab real, quick how can people support the work that you're doing?

Too thank you for coming on and co hosting with.

You thank you so, much truly appreciate.

It thanks for having me.

On it's great to meet You jen as.

Well you really are heroic in going against this force and revealing all the details that they have.

Inside it's it's quite stunning to hear you talk about, it so thank you so much for sharing with us.

Today everyone can find me at narrative dot org and a r a t iv dot.

Org it's also a.

Substack What i've been doing lately is covering this murder Of Renee good in every angle.

Possible got another story coming out about that later on.

Today But i've also just Published The Greatest Heighst book to chapter, seven which looks at the actual crime That Donald, Trump Jeffrey, epstein and many others made happen in two thousand and eight when they pumped and dumped the Entire american economy in the two thousand and eight.

CRASH i start explaining in this chapter exactly the mechanism that they, use showing exactly How Donald trump's casinos were packaged into a mortgage backed security, fund and That Jeffrey epstein held the keys to that fund and then ultimately protected it as they crashed the entire market around, them so an interesting.

READ i highly recommend The Greatest heist book, too and it's all On narrative Dot.

Org, YEAH i highly Recommend zev's.

Work, So, Jen i'm so GLAD i got to introduce you To Zev.

Zev i'm GLAD i got to introduce you To jen.

Today, JEN i would like to invite you back for another show to discuss more With Dean blundell as well and maybe some of my other co hosts and, colleagues BECAUSE i know there's a lot lot of us with a lot of, questions and you're an, expert and the truth holds, power and the more we, know the more we can act on.

It so thank, You.

Zev thank you also so much for.

COMING i appreciate you being on with.

ME i always enjoy getting the host with you and have these discussions and then finally come Support banner And, backbone help us build, this help us grow the, platform and help us make this stronger so we can get more information out there.

Faster on a wider, Basis i'm working on some really, cool cool automated tooling and customer custom tooling in the background for support systems that are going to help both, Myself, zev other, creators and all of us in the.

Communities so please support the network and we will see you again.

Soon I'm Nick.

Parow this Is benner And Backbone Powerful voices With Jen bud And Zev.

Shalev thank you both for joining me AND i will see everyone again here in the next couple of.

Days thanks, Y'ALL i

Looks Thanks jumble