Nice to meet you.

Very nice to meet you.

I'm a pretty big fan.

So, oh, thank you.

You're like the holy Grail of women entrepreneurs.

Oh well, I appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

So I found you on social media.

And you do sort of like these therapy snippets on relationships in the car and you have a practice, you have patients.

I do.

I have clients.

I'm a relationship coach and I've been running my practice now for about four years.

So it's been a real blessing and a real joy.

I was in academia before that.

I was the director of a clinical psychology program at a university, and so I did that for a number of years and taught in psychology.

Okay, so my question is one of the most intellectual reasons I think that a person shouldn't have sex too early, which we've all done, is because it could make you so deeply insecure to blame.

Like, let's say that you have this thing right here, like, Okay, I've been out with someone and on the first night, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do that, and oh my god, you're this and you're.

That, and like I'm into it and I'm believing it.

At the same time, I'm an investigative reporter in my own mind, not trusting any of it.

I don't believe it.

There's no way that you don't.

You feel as way just with me, and you didn't feel as way with someone two nights ago.

And it could be possible we have felt ways that we've never felt before, but it could so.

Now, if you sleep with someone and they don't call you or interact or text in the way that you want them to, you're blaming it on the sex you don't and it might not be the sex they might I've found that the guy that I don't have sex with does this also, But if I had sex, I'd be blaming all of it on sex.

So it's like a recipe.

You added cilantro, you added garlic, you added all these things.

You don't know what it was, don't know what the allergen was because you did all the things.

So the only way to.

Find out what you're really allergic to or what the problem is is like sort of they call it like an elimination diet, you know what I mean, or or elimination add on yes, or add one ingredient at a time, and that's why it's the same thing as making your own money.

I'm not saying you have to make your own money in life or use it.

It just sets you up for success not having sex.

It's not slut shaming.

It's saying, like, we want to be able to assign what ingredients are the problem, and you need to go slow so you can see what's going on with a new person.

I agree totally.

And there's hormonal things that happen to both male and female that are very different after sex happens.

So men really thrive in the dating phase on vasipressin, which is like the protector and provider hormone, which makes them want to feel like they're protective over you, like you're theres you know.

It makes them want to claim you, It makes them want to provide for you, do things for you.

And as you are bonding, macipressing will increase.

Once you have sex with them, it massively decreases.

Wow, And so.

Then that's where they get the I don't know how like if we can say this on the podcast, but the like post nut clarity right that that guys talk about, Wait.

Say it again, the post nut.

Nut clarity right, Well, after they have sex and then they're like, oh my gosh, I don't really like this shick, Like I just wanted to have sex with her, and I couldn't tell the difference.

And a lot of men can't tell the difference if they really just want to have sex with a woman or if they really like them.

So what I tell?

And then what does oral sex count for that for a man or it's really being inside someone.

I'm not sure exactly.

I know that the studies have really focused on you know, actual traditional sex, okay, additional sex and vacapressing levels.

But we see those levels drop and they get this all of a sudden that can make that strong instinct that I want to claim this person, like really pull back, and all of a sudden they're like.

Oh my gosh, what did I do?

Like I don't well these feelings.

Okay, but that combined a woman who gets the oxytocin and more cling because they have let someone literally inside of them.

It's different being inside of someone and someone being inside of you you want like your The combination is lethal.

Yes, absolutely, And I was just about to say that that women's oxytocin, which is their bonding hormone actually increases after sex.

So we have this disparity.

Right between how women and men are handling post sex clarity and wants and needs, And so I always tell women and they don't necessarily love it, but I'm like, hold off, you know, hold off as long as you can, because essentially what has to happen is the guy is going to go Okay, I didn't get it on the first date.

Do I really want to see her for a second date?

Okay, I see her for a second date.

I still didn't get it.

Do I like her enough to want to see her for a third date?

Oh?

I still didn't get it.

Do I like her enough to want to see her for a fourth date?

And they have to keep them actually asking themselves interesting, this somebody that I want to connect with is our emotional and personality connection enough to sustain me.

For a while.

And that's a man's logic, but a women's insecurity.

And now let's get to the real thing, because a lot of moms are on here, a lot of women, a lot of women dating in their forties and fifties, but a lot of moms.

So we're doing two things at the same time.

We are trying to tell our daughters what this is the only thing they want and hold off.

But we have to get granular about it because we know that as a fifty four year old woman, I have been out with men, really liked them.

They've been powerhouse ball or men.

It's felt good.

And there have been times when it's not that I did something I didn't want to do.

It feels good.

Who cares where I might have gone further with someone?

Then I eat intellectually wanted to more for them, to sort of like make them feel good and check the box for them.

And now men are manipulative just like women are, and so our daughters.

How are we if we ourselves have done things that we don't want to do, or maybe not done what we wouldn't want to do, we wanted to do it, but regret it because we didn't just say no, I'm not in my mind to me, meaning I'm strong, I can tell a man no.

It's me to me And the weirdness of how to tell a man no?

So how are you telling us to a tell our daughters exactly how to say no?

So it works?

So it lands with an adolescent boy who has blue balls and then how are you telling us to tell ourselves that it as middle aged women, as thirty year old, as twenty year old, all of it, all the things.

Yeah.

So it just brings to mind the fact that I have a fourteen year old daughter, say fifteen now, right, they're going to be getting into that stage where this is a real sexual contact is a real possibility in the next few years, right, I will do you.

I am forty three.

Okay, so you're younger, so great, But okay, so let's go through.

Give yourself the advice and give the child the advice.

But really how to land it?

Not just the concept of like, wait, okay, great, but how exactly.

Well, First of all, I think when I was that age, if we're talking about like teenagers, I didn't really understand all the consequences of sex.

I mean, an unplayed pregnancy is not the worst thing that can come out of having sex.

I mean diseases that can literally kill you can come as a result of having sex, and you can't necessarily tell who has those diseases and who to you know.

I've never told that to my daughter.

So that's the first thing I have literally never I've told.

My and the statistics are one in five people have herpes, and so you know, you can't necessarily tell that they have it.

They can live with it for years without even themselves knowing that they have.

My daughter would react to that very much, yes.

Very strongly.

So I believe mine would too.

And I've had that conversation and I saw it on her face, so I believe that she didn't have that reaction.

I think for middle aged women we're a little bit sort of more over the fear of sexually transmitted diseases and that kind of stuff, like we're like, oh, we can protect ourselves or whatever.

But I think you have to realize that they're significant.

We don't think about it that much.

We really don't.

You're right, it's not discussed.

We don't think about it.

And because we're a certain age where you're not going to get pregnant, you really don't think about it.

To your point, we really don't think about it.

Like it's weird for a woman and man in their fifties to be like, do you have a condom?

It's like it's like you're in college again.

It's a very interesting thing.

Yes, it is a very interesting thing.

But believe it or not, I have a lot of clients that come to me in their forties and fifties and say, I've never had an STD in my life, but I started dating.

You know, I didn't even think about.

Us because they're also in their free spirit phase where they'll do.

Or post of verse.

You know, they're selling their wild oats.

Yeah, you're trying to find themselves and boom they get hit with this STD and then they're like, oh my gosh, like what do I do?

And sometimes it's you know, one of the STDs that just doesn't you know, it doesn't go well.

Now, guess what my friend did tell a guy that he has to be tested before they're going to have sex.

And you know what, I've had people say that they want a personality test taken or just like anecdotally the what we talked.

About with an attachment test.

But I think that's a very not for a teen, but for a woman our age my age, George, that's an empowered growing thing and a ball or move to say to a man, I want to get to know you emotionally in addition to intimately, but I would need you to take a test, And I think they would think that was fucking sexy as fuck for a woman to say that to them.

I mean, I think that you know your needs and your wants are valid, whatever those things are for me personally, what I did when I met my husband, I had just gone through a big healing journey.

I had been single for over a year.

I had, you know, done all the stuff to work on my attachment healing, and I was ready to put myself on the dating market.

I dated a couple of people that you know, it just didn't take off.

I wasn't very interested.

And then I met him and I did know after a couple of dates, like, wow, I really have something special, some special feelings for this guy.

Right.

So basically just laid it on the table, and that way I knew I would hold myself accountable.

I said, I'm not going to have sex with you until we're in a committed relationship.

I'm not doing it like until i'm yours and yours you know, there's exclusivity in this ERAa and.

The way that's a confident thing to say too.

That's a confident thing to say too.

I don't have sex unless'm going to I'm in a relationship.

You're allowed to have that as your code.

We want to get into the kids and what we're going to say to them next too.

But that's a code that because the gray is where you get confused.

If you have like a code, that's it, that's that's it.

So I like that as a code, and that's my new code.

I just didn't want him to worry.

I just didn't want myself to worry about him going in sleeping with other people if I was sleeping with.

Him, or you don't want to feel like someone's not going to call you to the point of what I said before, like I'm you know, unless you're in that sex and city Samantha phase which I don't go through, which some women are.

You want to go out and get laid, fine, then someone has to use a condom or they have to get tested.

You're allowed to be in a sexual relationship.

But for me, you are correct.

I'm not having sex with someone unless I'm going to commit a relationship.

It's extremely black and white.

But I don't think I've ever said it like that, and I think that's I've said.

I want my emotions to catch up with my physicality, but it's not quite as strong as what were you just said.

Right, and then I also, you know there's some confidence there.

There's some confidence there there.

I'm saying it's compatible.

You know this is going to be going somewhere.

There's a level of respect for each other that has been developed.

There's a level of hoity and be able to show that they are capable of giving you what you need outside of having a sexual relationship.

No, yes, but I.

Think there's a confidence.

I think you could get two things accomplished.

I think number one, there's a confidence there with both people.

But I think a woman saying to a man who's at the level that like is a catch that she thinks is a catch, saying to him that makes him think she's so much more of a catch, Like that's just such a strong, confident thing to say.

So I think you get more than one thing accomplished.

It's my new thing.

I do too.

And then I think it weeds out the bad guys that are just like Harry and get laid right, so you know they're going to weed themselves out.

And I would say, go see you, you know, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

And I think also too, just being able to know that what does happen there's a level of comfort there that has already been established.

It felt really.

Good, it felt really safe, exactly.

It felt so safe.

And I think people underestimate the psychological vulnerabilities and the psychological and emotional impacts of having sex with somebody that then turns around and you know, abandons you or betrays you or whatnot because you didn't establish a connection and a level of trust.

And what I tell people is, listen, you're in charge of your own body.

Go do whatever it is you.

Want to do.

I'm not going to shame you.

I'm not going to try to, you know, tell you that you should or shouldn't do something.

I'm just trying to hear to tell you the risks and what could actually benefit you by delaying sex is by keeping around a guy that is becoming more confident that he wants to be with you even in absence of that thing, which for a man is a pretty big like revelation that they can have.

No And I yes, and I think for my daughter, because that's as important as what we're saying, more is more important.

I would say what you.

Said about diseases and what I mean, I would also talk about what men are like and that also you don't they're going to react to It's hard for you to understand.

But if you do it, they're going to respect you have a less likely chance of them liking you after sadly, and and they and they get what they want.

And I would also say that a child can also should not be having sex, but you can't.

It's like saying they shouldn't be drinking.

We can't control of that.

Should be saying I won't do this unless I'm in They can say it too, unless I have a boyfriend.

But then also, uh, they have to use a condom.

It's gonna it's harder for them.

And that's why we have wanted pregnancies and STDs.

But I have to make sure that that's landed.

But it's also like saying I know a lot of people.

I heard recently j Loo saying that she never drank even though she launched a liquor brand, but then she I don't think she markets that anymore, but that she never drank because her mom just said to her that it was bad and her reasons.

And I'm like, look, it takes a strong person to not drink and to say it with confidence, but you can do it, and that's the same thing as sex.

Yeah, And I think so she give you more confidence, right, because everybody else around you is probably gonna be giving in.

And so they're there is you know, a nature of men that they want the special one, right, they want the gazelle, they want the one with the high standards.

And I think men inherently know if you're sleeping with them on the first or second date.

Inherently they're like, yeah, I'm not the only one you've done this with nort telling me I'm special and that you don't usually do this.

But they're not buying it, right, No, No.

And then also the hard thing we're dealing with too is that, like I'm in my mind, we're so naive and we have so many blind spots.

As parents, I, in my mind, have been most focused on the substances, the drinking, the possibility of drugs arising.

I have literally not been thinking about the sex at all.

I have not been thinking I have a fifth Yeah, I'm good like so to Yeah, so homework for you parents.

We're all naive, we all think it's never gonna happen to us, and it's not our kid.

So I would give you guys the homework to now go deal with both.

It could be separately, but deal with both things like deal with the sex of it and the drugs of it and the alcohol of it, because.

They're both in existent.

Like we were all kids.

I think we take the wrong approach when we're just like, don't do it.

That's it exactly right, like we're not talking about this.

I think you need to make your child feel comfortable enough with you to be able to talk about it, because if they do eventually get themselves into a bad situation, you want them to be able to come to you and tell you so you can help them problem solve that and work that out and be okay emotionally when if and if that does happen.

This is what's happening tonight.

This is my night, is my evening, is my homework.

Awesome.

You were amazing.

I'm so I would love to have you on again.

It was really excellent.

Thank you so much.

I enjoyed chatting with excellent.

Love your TikTok videos.

I love how you just you know what you just say.

Whatever it is like is really you're really passionate about and authenticity is so regulating to the nervous system, and I find you incredibly authentic.

And I think that's why I enjoy your TikTok, because oh I appreciate it, just like you know what, Chase screwed me over today and I'm gonna and I'm gonna freaking talk about this.

They certainly did, and many people as well.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

You're so welcome, Bethany, Thank you so much for inviting me.

It was a of course, have a great day you too, Thank you, good Bye,