Happy Holidays, everybody.

I'm Dan Horden.

Thanks for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast.

The have a Holly Jolly Christmas edition as the Bengals look to extend the holiday celebration with a home win over Arizona on Sunday.

Coming up, I'll talk to former Bengals wide receiver Andrew Hawkins about trying to be the voice of reason where Cincinnati is concerned.

On ESPN, a one on one player interview is with Jordan Battle, who is tied for second in the NFL in a category that should be an official NFL stat and my broadcast partner Dave Lappam will join me to discuss the value of a strong finish even in a disappointing season.

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Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.

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It's the greatest thing since Jay and Nicky Morrison.

Jay Morrison, who's been writing about the Bengals for nearly three decades, most recently for Bengals Talk dot Com, lost his wife Nicki this week when a medical procedure turned catastrophic.

I've had the opportunity to socialize with the Morrisons on several occasions over the years, and Nicky lit up a room with her smile, laugh, and what I would describe is her game for anything personality.

In sharing the tragic news on social media, Jay described his wife of thirty seven years as a beautiful, caring, badass rocker chick.

Jay is liked and respected among Bengals players and coaches, as well as those of us who cover the team.

If you've enjoyed his work over the years, please keep Jay and his two kids in your thoughts and rip to Nicky, who, in my experience, made every occasion a little more fun.

Now let's get to my first guest, who's enjoying remarkable success off the field after playing in the NFL for the Bengals.

And Browns.

You talk about an impressive resume.

He played in the NFL for seven years.

He's got a master's degree from an Ivy League school.

He's one an Emmy, he's one an Oscar.

He's a successful entrepreneur.

We see him regularly on ESPN.

He is former Bengals wide receiver Andrew Hawkins Hawk.

We are catching you a few days after a forty five to twenty one win for the Bengals in Miami.

Did you see anything last Sunday that made you think, Okay, maybe this is a preview of what's to come in twenty twenty six.

Yes, yes, and no, because I feel like it was a confirmation of things that I already knew, which is the team plays so much better when Joe Burrow is in a lineup, right, Because even when you look at some of the grades, you know for a lot of the offense when he's out versus when he's in, there's just a lift that somebody with that amount of talent like it means for them.

And it's not just because he's talented, it's because his leadership.

It's like people feel accountable, right, they're doing their job.

They understand like the gravity of the situation every time he's in there, and it was an all around great win.

Brown played great.

You know, this is a Miami team.

Yeah, they had a new quarterback, but for the most part, they've also played really hard down the stretch.

You know, for the situation they're in where their GM goes, they benched their quarterback.

You have a head coach who, you know, all the national media is saying, you know, he probably is not going to be there.

He can't get them to play.

They play really hard.

So for the Bengals to come out there and put that kind of effort forward and all around when I do feel like it's what's to come, but more of what it could be if they can keep that for the entirety of a seventeen game stretch.

You've been in an interesting position in recent weeks on ESPN.

Some of your colleagues I'm not going to name names, have taken comments from Joe Burrow and kind of run wild with it.

Have you felt like you've had to be the voice of reason at times?

I do, man, and it's hard for me.

Dan.

I'm not going to lie, because I really do have a deep Bengals fandom, right and you know my history.

I've obviously played for the Browns for a number of years.

That organization has been incredible to me.

I grew up a Bengals fan.

I've been a part of Woday nation since nineteen ninety eight, like I could name all the quarterbacks.

The first training camp or NFL practice I ever went to was actually before my rather even played for the team, and Eric b Enemy pulled me out of the stands randomly and took me in the locker room to get autographs and that kind of cement to me as a Bengals fan.

And so I'm always in this weird situation, obviously rooting for both franchisees, but more importantly, when I'm on television or we're having these conversations, it is really tough for me to separate people being analysts and me being, you know, letting the thirteen year old version of me speak in my answers and what my perspective is.

And I do feel like I need to be the voice of reason at times, just because you know, I think it's easy to look at all these situations in a vacuum.

And why I give the detail of being a fan of the Bengals organization since I was a kid.

It is because every situation plays back in your mind, like you do, go back to a baseline of like, well, what is the last situation we saw with this happening?

What is the last situation we saw with that?

What are the time when the organization has been successful, when the players have been SUCCESSU what is the mindset?

And you know?

And so I feel like in a lot of those conversations I find myself sometimes probably skewing a little bit more bangal than player, which is just the opposite of what I do for all other thirty one organizations.

But at the same time, I think there's validity to it, meaning like, look, nothing's ever going to be perfect.

And in the NFL and my experience, the better you are, the better that you say you are, the better the fans think you are, the better, the organization pays you and puts more.

There is more on your shoulders.

The standard is different.

And is it fair.

Absolutely not.

But I can remember being in those games in close environments and if I don't make a play, it's like, damn Hawk, we wish you would have made that play.

When AJ has to make a play, it's like, hey, what this hat like we're banking on this the old everybody your expected and he understood that, right, because with great power comes great responsibility.

So yeah, I do find myself being trying to be the voice of reason, trying to give you know, the sky isn't falling and this isn't this isn't on anybody's one piece of the conversation shoulder, Whereas if everybody takes the ownership, then you can you can find ways to make the leap to the next level.

I do wonder at times why certain things where the Bengals are concerned never seem to change in the mind of the national media.

For example, the Bengals are cheap, so they signed Joe Burrow to the greatest contract that a quarterback had at the time in the NFL.

They extend Jamar and t this past offseason, and no matter what they do, that just seems to be cemented in the minds of some people and they are not going to move off that position.

And you often find yourself on sets with some of those people.

I'm with you, I'm like, everything can't be true.

That's the saying that I always use, right, and you know, we have probably with Cincinnati the best wide receiver duo in the NFL, and we have at the very least a top three quarterback in the NFL, if not higher, depending on what week it is or who you're talking to.

Those things are cheap, those things, aren't.

You know, Like, we can't have that and have every position being top five unless you just you hit a lights out draft or you go get players situationally that you probably shouldn't get or that you luck into a lot of time.

So to your point, I try to remind people of like, Okay, we're you see the contracts, we talk about them week in and week out, so that the narrative that it's just being cheap and you're not players for players sake.

It's just it's just it's just wrong, you know.

So I'm with you one thousand percent.

Hawk.

When you were in Cincinnati, the Bengals had an unbelievable receiving corps.

AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mosts, a New your Elf, Tyler Raiford, Jermaine Gresham.

It was pretty impressive, certainly among the best in the NFL.

What do you think of the group now?

Yes, I still feel the same way.

I think it's I think it's the talent wise, you're getting a lot of the talent that we had in that core.

With even fewer guys.

You know, I think T Higgins is a number one receiver in this league.

I think he's one of the best thirty two receivers in the National Football League, and I don't think he's thirty two.

Obviously.

Jamar Chase is one of the best receivers you know, in his time since he's stepped foot in the NFL.

And I think that that's what the Bengals have always done well, you know, I think I think the Steelers for a long time got a lot of credit for their ability to go get receivers in the second, third round and turn them into like, you know, household names or Pro Bowl caliber players.

And I would argue that the Bengals have done even even better, which is why it's it's been such a departure from what they not only have done, but what they've had to do, where they pay two incredibly good wide receivers because we want to keep that core intact.

Because they've had so much luck.

Even the names that you mentioned, those are third round picks, fifth round picks, guys that came from Canada, the second round tight ends, and it goes back to.

The Hushman's side of days, the Jo Choe sinkles.

These aren't top ten wide receivers drafted, you know, Tyler Boys, I mean, you name it.

They've done incredibly well in that department.

And they've been able not only to find guys with talent, you know, on that core.

I mean, I let an NFL team in receiving most of the news, let an NFL team in receiving.

Marvin Jones has let an NFL team in receiving.

Aj Green has led an NFL team in receiving.

That is a rarity, right for your fourth receiver to end up going to be a number one somewhere.

And so you know, to your point, when I look at this team now, there is so much to build on there because even when you look at like some of the matchups are going into this week, there's just things you can bank on.

There's no way you can.

Cover both t and Jamar with Joe at the helm and just completely take their receivers away unless their self inflicted wounds on the Cincinnati offense side.

And that's what makes them special.

It is Christmas week.

We have items at the top of our wish lists.

What should the Bengals have at the top of their wish list going forward for next year?

Continuing to invest into the defense however possible.

I think, you know, doing whatever we can.

And again, a lot of this happenstance, it's luck, it's the way the ball bounces.

Joe Burrow playing a seventeen game season makes this a completely different team, you know.

And the hope is that, you know, in any fifteen year career, there's going to be on average, probably three seasons that you're going to end.

And I are right.

The hope is that, Okay, we've seen those seasons now and now Joe Burrow going forward is like, you know, he's in the lineup constantly because it's just a completely different team.

Right.

This is such a quarterback driven league.

So if you have a quarterback that's just decent, you have a chance.

If you have a quarterback that is elite as Joe Burrow and he's in the lineup, this is no kidd.

And you can miss the playoffs three years in.

A row, and immediately next year you could be in the running to win the Super Bowl.

And that's what's special.

When I think you know, making sure you are building in a way that is supportive for the absolutes that you have in Joe Burrow or the receiving corps or these pieces that you can bank on.

It's now, how do you lift everything else to put that insurance policy in place?

Hockey, you spent your entire career in the AFC North.

What do you make of the Steelers being two games up with two games to go?

Yeah, I mean, I think at this point I'm not surprised.

I think Mike Tomlin has done an incredible job.

You just know what you get with him.

Kind of little we talk about with absolutes.

We've seen him do it, Yes, with Aaron Rodgers, who's far past his prime.

That's the reality of the situation.

We've seen him do it with Roethlisberger for a year, but we seen him do it, you know, with Kenny Pickett.

We've seen them do it with every other quarterback that has like medaled in the middle.

He's still able to produce winning seasons.

So, but the reality for them and their standard is nobody in Steelers fandom or a part of that organization is going to be happy with them just winning the division, right because that is not what they play for.

And because it's an absolute, it's like guaranteed we're going to win nine games.

We know that, we understand that nine games plus.

How do we turn that into playoff wins?

How do we.

Actually start to put a DT in there?

And you know, for them, I would argue that there's nobody in Pittsburgh fandom organization, in the city of Pittsburgh that care about them being two games up in the division at this point if it doesn't equate to a first round playoff win.

The Bengals host the Cardinals this week at pay Court Stadium.

What are a couple of keys for the Bengals coming away with a victory at home?

Big key for their defense would be trying to limit Trade McBride right, I think the Bengals defense, obviously, they've struggled against tight ends.

I think they lead the league in receptions, giving up yards, given up touchdowns, giving up the tight ends.

And Trey was a little quiet last week, and I think the Falcons did a really good job against him.

So if the Bengals can take a page out of their book and limit Trey down the middle of the field, that's going to be a really really big deal for them, and I think if they can limit that offense because Jacoby Prissett, he does have the ability to be really really productive on offense.

And you've seen a lift not to the Joe Burrow level, but you've seen a lift from their offense when Jacobi's in there because you understand what he can do.

He's gotten even the most out of Wilson at the wide receiver position.

I think Trade McBride is going to be absolutely the most important piece of that defense to try.

To stop Hawk.

I mentioned off the top that you are an entrepreneur.

One of your ventures is Status Pro, a virtual reality company that has partnered with the NFL.

Tell us a little bit about what's going on with that because we see Dan Orlovsky use it to great effect on NFL Live.

Yeah, it's a company my co founder, Troy Jones, and I started about seven years ago with the idea of like, how do we deepen fandom, how do we deepen understanding of what's going on because we are football guys.

As you know, this has been.

My life's work, and you know, if I can show people just how hard it is for Joe Burrow out there or John Kittner or Jeff Blake or you know, insert whatever quarterback for the Bengals we've watched over the years.

Then I think it helps fans understand a little bit more.

So what we do is the technology.

We take the NGS data that NFL players wear in their shoulder pads and we convert it to a simulation, and we take that simulation and the output can be in three different ways.

Number one is gaming, so we have a VR video game that's one of the best selling video games in VR history and the top selling sports video game.

And then we put it in training, so we have literal you know, NFL teams, high level college teams that use it for their quarterbacks, for their special teams, for their running backs, for blitz pickup, for route recognition, formation recognition, so they can get actual reps where it feels like you're on the field and take the wear and tear off their body.

And then lastly, like you mentioned, we use it in media where Dan or insert whatever analysts will put it on and explain to the fans, like the decisions that a quarterback like Joe Burrow has to make, all the considerations that have to go into that decision, making and how fast he has to make it with a limited view, right, and so it's been awesome to kind of continue to.

Bring into life.

Like I said, if I can contribute to the game of football in a way that makes somebody love it a little bit more than I feel like I've been a good steward of the which has been so good to me.

You're doing a tremendous job on ESPN and in all of your ventures.

I really appreciate your time.

Happy holidays and look forward to chatting with you again down the road.

My pleasure, Dan, thanks for having me man.

Until recently, Andrew ranked fiftieth all time and receiving yards for the Bengals and fiftieth all time and receiving yards for the Browns.

Jerry Judy recently passed him on Cleveland's all time list, but when Andrea Yosi Vosh adds seventeen yards to his career total, the symmetry will be back.

Hawk will rank fifty first for both teams.

Pro Bowl rosters were announced this week, and Jamar Chase was named to the AFC team for the fifth time in five years.

AJ Green is the only other player in team history to start his career in similar fashion, and AJ made it in each of his first seven seasons.

T Higgins, DJ Turner, and kick returner Charlie Jones were named Pro Bowl all times and could wind up being added if others are unable to play.

DJ Turner, who's tied for the NFL lead and passes defense, seem to have a particularly strong case for making it this year.

I discussed that and more this week with Bengals safety Jordan Battle.

Jordan, I thought there was a good chance that DJ Turner was going to make the Pro Bowl roster this year.

We learned on Tuesday that he's an alternate.

What was your reaction, obviously, you know, if he's frustrated.

I feel, you know, obviously having a great year, easily easily a top five corner in the league this year, and I feel all his frustration.

I feel where he's coming from, obviously, you know, ME see him like wow, I think him in I think him and the other guy from the Bears, right, I think he.

I think they both got pretty bad.

I'm glad you mentioned right n Sean Wright.

So in the official NFL stats, we see league leaders for interceptions, league leaders for fumbles.

They never add up the two and make that into a stat for yeah, for takeaways.

If they did, he's number one, you're tied for number two.

He's got seven.

You've got six, four interceptions and two forest fumbles.

Should that be like an official NFL stat?

And what's been the key for you to do so well in that category this year?

Yeah, I mean they added as a stat.

You know, I would love that obviously, you know, a dozen off this year, but yeah, just this year, you know, trying to be more ball away, you know, as a season going on, just understanding you know, whenever whenever there's a chance, you know, to make a tackle, you know there's a chance for the ball to come out, and obviously you know when the ball is in there, you know, just.

Trying to make a play on the ball.

You know, however, I can you know, I know most.

Of them been been tips this year, but you know, even just going to get the ball out of the air.

Sometimes going back to training camp, you guys would do drills even before you stretched to begin practice, where you're working on ripping the ball away, punching the ball away, anything you can to create takeaways.

Does that because second nature muscle memory when you do that every day.

Yeah, I feel like this year, like the first year I could say like I've actually been like going to punch at the ball, Like it's been on my mind, like going for a tackle, to to go for the ball.

So I feel like that's that's helped me starting the training camp.

OTA's you know, even when like when coach our first got here, like that was his main thing, you know, takeaways, takeaways, takeaways, rip at the ball, punch at the ball.

So I feel like, uh, that's kind of been like second nature to me, like going into the games.

Now, were visiting with Jordan Battle.

Let me circle back to DJ Turner for a second.

You guys were part of the same draft class.

It's turned out to be an excellent draft for the Bengals.

What have you seen in Dj this year that's taken him from the level he was at prior to this season to being one of the top five corners in the NFL.

Yeah, I think just the way he's prepared, you know, coming into the week.

You know, this year, he had a mindset of you know, going and garden the best even on East team.

You know, I told coach Chuck that, you know, told us that, you know, and he's been living up to it.

You know, he's been going out you know to practice, you know, ready to cover you know, whoever's the opponent's best receiver.

You know, he's been taking that challenge very well.

You know, he's been locked in into his off the field things, you know, with meditation, with his reading, you know, getting his body right, you know.

And that's kind of like been been to help for me as well, you know, like just doing pilates, like doing the extra things and massages.

You know, I haven't I wasn't really into pilates or you know, like stretching outside of the building, you know, and I got into that.

So I feel like that's you know, elevating my game a little bit as well.

Miles Murphy's part of your draft class as well.

What is he showing you in the second half of this season?

Uh, you know, he showed us you know everything everything, you know what he drafting them for.

You know, the effort on the edge, you know, the speed, the physicality you know, setting the edge and being able to play the run game, you know, and create TFLs for defense, you know, and then obviously the speed off the edge to to get some sacks.

You know, in the past few games, I feel like that he's been taking this game to the next level and he's only gonna get better.

In recent weeks, after the injury to Cam Taylor Brett, Jalen Davis became the starting slide corner.

Dax Hill move to outside corner.

Let's start with Jalen.

What do you admire and respect about him?

Yeah, I just respect his just how how bored in he is and he's been, you know, even when he wasn't playing.

You know, just I just respected his game, you know, respect his knowledge for the game, you know, obviously being a guy who wasn't given a chance in his career, you know, and obviously now he's been starting to pass a few games and he's been playing very well for us, you know.

Uh, and he's that's predicated to all the work he's put in, you know, coming uh of living up to this moment.

You know, even in the training camp, you know, see him making players in one on ones.

You know, see him making plays in practice.

You know, when guys aren't practicing, he comes in.

He makes players, create, create turnovers in practice.

You know.

So, uh, when she in the game, it's like, okay, we knew he We knew he was gonna do that.

You know, we knew he can trust him.

You know, that's why he's out there.

So just see him, you know, continue to do good.

And then you know, obviously knowing that he has a great family, you know, I know they're proud of him as well.

Do you feel like the team is found the best spot for Dax?

Uh?

Yes and no, but I feel like that's a guy who can play, you know, anywhere.

Obviously we all know that.

But seeing the way he's playing, you know, obviousitly DJ right now, like he's he's getting locked into that and he's he's getting comfortable in that, and uh like this might be where he where he I mean, when he the next few years might.

Be where he stays.

You know, obviously he's playing very well carrying Pobu's playing real good in the run game, you know, setting edges which makes it easier for safeties and linebackers to make tackles, uh and for him to make plays himself.

So like, you know, he's find his spot for the next few years for sure.

We're chatting with Jordan battle.

You take on the Cardinals this week.

They've got a tight end and Trey McBride, who's got one fewer catch than Jamar Chase.

That's how often they're getting the ball to Trey McBride.

What stands out about him, like you've watched the Cardinals this week.

Yeah, he's a very physical route runner.

He uses his hands very well coming out of his brakes.

Obviously he's he's a high hot target.

You know, a lot of Brissetts you know, reads or starts with him and then he goes back away to either fourteen or eighteen, you know, So he's got to understand that nor he is on the field, we kind of got a good you know feel for you know, his routes and where he's lined up, you know, so we've got to understand that, know where he is, you know, and to be able to play the routse that we that we know will will come.

And obviously they like to give him a lot of a.

Lot of screens or you know a lot of quick throws, you know, because he's a lot he's very physical runner as well, and he guys the ball.

He has gets good rack, so you know you have to do a good job tackling as well.

Be honest, I haven't watched a lot of the Cardinals this year, so studying them this week, I'm surprised by how prolific their passing tack is.

After Kyle Murray went down, it got better.

Koby Perssetts playing well.

There's seventh in the NFL in passing yards.

This is an offense that has earned your respect.

Yeaheah, for sure.

Obviously coming into the game, there's's probably gonna be the team that passed the most this year that we played against.

Coming to the game, they were, They're very.

They take the most i think play action shots this year out of any team.

So we got to understand that.

Know that Jacob's not a phrase to go the ball downfield, you know, So that gives us a chance to make players as well.

So we've got to be in position and then go out there and make those plays.

To the end of year three for you, unfortunately you haven't been to the playoffs yet.

How desperate are you to turn next season, season four into the type of year that you probably expected to have when you came here.

Very desperate, you know, already ready to make a playoff and win the Super Bowl, you know, I feel like that's the last thing on my checklist.

You know the cross off.

You know I got to the high school championship, high school national championship, got the national championship in college.

I think super Bowl is the.

Last thing, but first making the playoffs and then getting a Super Bowl.

Appreciate your time as always, Merry Christmas, Thanks for spending a few minutes with us.

May Christmas Holladays.

The Bengals Booth podcast is brought to you by Paid Corps, Proud to be the ben official HR software provider, by Ulta Fiber future Proof Fiber Internet designed elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.

Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.

Joe Burrow has a history of leading the Bengals to strong finishes.

They ended last season with a five game winning streak.

He missed the final seven games of the previous season with his wrist injury.

So if you go back to the year before that, the Bengals ended the regular season with an eight game winning streak and in twenty twenty one they won three straight.

Had to have at games to win the AFC North At the end of the year before Joe set out the regular season finale prior to the Bengals Super Bowl run.

This year, the best they can do is end with a three game winning streak, and that seems like a strong possibility since their final two opponents are the three and twelve Cardinals and the three and twelve Browns.

I discuss that with my broadcast partner Dave Lapham.

It would mean a lot in my estimation.

You know, as a former player, I can say that, you know, winning the last three games of the season is is a plus.

It's a factor going into the getting your mind right for the following season for twenty twenty six.

Now, you know, you just put the records out there, three and twelve, three and twelve, six and twenty four not great, not great.

Fan base is going to be who cares?

Right?

You know, you beat those two football teams, who really cares?

Well, You'll care if they lose to one of them, That's that's for sure.

You'll hear about that all day long, on every day of the week until the next football game.

But you do you you want to be a pros pro.

You want to finish is with the best ruck you possibly can and seven and ten, you know, is nothing right home about.

You know, it's not anything to raise the flag over.

But considering where they were to crawl back to a seven and ten mark and to finish the season on an uptick, and the graft was going up as the season finished off, I think that's important.

I think the other thing that's really important is that even if they win these last two games to get to seven wins, you still have to remember, Okay, our job's not done.

That doesn't really change the big picture.

This team needs to fix the defense absolutely to get where they want to go next year.

So even if they finish on a high, it doesn't change the mission.

Attack the offseason and surround Joe Burrow with a defense that can help him get the Bengals back to the Super Bowl.

Bingo, Dan, you know your football, no question about it.

You're doing games a while now, and it's been very enjoyable, my man, right back back at you.

You know, it's yeah.

Defensively, they've got some pieces, very few though they don't have a whole lot of them.

The thing they do have those youth and they have young football players I think that have shown enough to forecast promising futures.

You know, I don't think that they've got a bunch of tents out there that can't play the game and can't understand the game of football.

I think they've got players that they can work with.

I think, uh, you know, you're not going to have a superstar at every single position.

That's unrealistic in the National Football League.

It's just not going to happen.

But you know, you want to have good, solid, sound football players, and uh, you know, the National Football League is the best of the best.

You know, you're you're bringing in the cream of the crop.

You're bringing in the best college football players every year in the draft, and you're trying to get you know, good football players.

They might not have been in need on the team that they were on, so they're on the market and you can go and get them.

And you have a need on your football team, go get a free agent and solidify it your football team even a little bit more so the front office, you know, Duke Tobin and his people in the scouting department, all those people have have some work ahead of them.

Their season really is just beginning.

A good description the Bengals, depending on what website you check out, have either the seventh or eighth most salary cap space.

They've got all of their high draft picks, they will have resources to attack fixing the defense in the off season.

Here's a quick invitation to join lap in me for the Bengals Pep Bradley Show This week will be at the on the Rhine Eatery that's the food hall on the second floor above the downtown Kroger on Friday from three to six and our scheduled guest in the final hour of that show will be rookie offensive lineman Dylan Fairchild.

That's going to do it for this episode of the Bengals Booth podcast, brought to you by pay Corp.

Proud to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof Fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.

Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.

If you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if you have a minute, give it a rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us.

Merry Christmas and thanks for listening to the Bengals Booth podcast,