Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.

Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians.

Thank you, as always so much for joining us.

Uh we've got none other than the Man, the myth, the legend, our super producer, mister Max Masshole Williams joining us.

Are you a mass guy, You're a You're he's a Michigan, You're as I'm a Michigan Michigan.

Yeah, Yeah, that's a mister Noel Brown over there on the ones and twos.

I'm not from anywhere.

I don't.

I don't claim any any a young German boy, that's true.

I am a no I was once a young German German boy.

I am legally required to disclose that I am called Ben Bollen in this art on world.

And uh No.

We had a fascinating conversation, uh, very many years ago when we were just absolutely fanboying about this crazy guy who is really fascinating author, a podcaster, I would say, a thought leader, and one of the nicest people I've ever met from Massachusetts.

Are you talking about Johnny as yet You're not.

You're talking about Jake Brannan.

No other dead You guys are two kind.

Well you may have heard Jake unleash earlier when we were talking, and that's that's breaking the fourth wall, which was the third one.

It's the fourth wall, the fourth wall if you're talking to the audience, that's right.

Jake Brittan is here with us right now, coming to us live and direct.

Jake, how you doing.

I'm fantastic.

I'm stoked to be talking to you guys, Excited to be talking ridiculous music history.

Fan of your show, and anytime I can talk about music with some informed lads, I'm happy.

So we're right in my sweet spot this actor.

We're nothing if not informed lads.

And as we talked about off Mike Ben is not only the king of doors, he is also the king of intros and he really sets you up beautifully.

Our buddy, Jake is an incredible podcaster with the Disgrace Lam podcast and various music documentary podcasts that sort of have a take a true crime fusion with music history approach, and it's an incredible video content that you may have seen go viral on the interwebs.

And again also an author, so we're super stood to have you with us, Jake, indeed, to talk about some ridiculous music history.

This was a little dark.

It's one that maybe would also feel right at home on our sister podcast, Stuff they don't want you to know, because we're talking about a bit of a history mystery involving a very influential musician by the name of Johnny As I've said multiple times, Johnny.

Ace one of a kind, and I love this.

I love the conversation because it fits in your wheelhouse.

Guys, It's kind of like this story.

Ninety percent of people think it's one thing, but it's actually something else.

So we're in that historical mythbusting phase, which is a very cool spot to be.

Now, Jake, you're a legendary.

I would call you a journalist at this point as well as a storyteller.

So can you introduce us for anyone who is unfamiliar to this character?

Johnny sure, Johnny Ace a Memphis musician sort of in the years prior to Elvis breaking out as a first a regional star in the South and then as a global superstar.

So Johnny Ace, look at it this way, like Elvis is sixteen years old and he's he's lurking around Memphis these clubs.

He's kind of like looking into windows.

It's to the black clubs to watch Ike Turner and dealing all their moves.

Yeah, exactly.

And BB King and and Johnny Ace is one of these guys.

Johnny Ace was at first the piano player in BB King's BB King's band called the Beal Streeters before BB King became huge.

And of course, if you saw the Elvis movie that they get into the relationship between Elvis and BB King.

But Johnny Ace was like, you know, there's there's cool musicians, or there's cool people, and then there's just like cool.

There's a level of cool that's like extraterrestrial, Like even the Tom Waits, Yeah, you nailed it.

Like like how how David Bowie was obsessed with iggy Pop's cool?

Like that's that's what Johnny Ace was.

He was just this like young dude in Memphis who is just the coolest fucking guy.

And Elvis and many others loved him.

And after you know, Johnny Ace is in Phoebe King's band.

He starts a solo career after that, and he starts to have some some hits on the R and B charts under his own name Johnny.

Ace, And there's a certain kind of cool that you describe him that also comes along with a little crazy.

Yes, if I'm not mistaken, I mean I think I'm not mistaken.

We've observed it in folks.

Do you like you mentioned with Iggy Pop?

Bowie certainly had his crazy days that he got pasted, you know, God rest his soul.

But where he was just sustaining on milk and red peppers and cocaine while watching like Nazi propaganda videos and his murder mansion.

You get in situations is it crazy to be cool or is it cool to be crazy?

That seems like a thesis statement.

We're gonna be following along with right, Yeah, So, Jake, what first drew you to the story of this up and coming cool crazy musician?

Uh, Johnny Ace the name to go along with it too, that.

Is Christian name.

I doubt it.

Okay, okay, Johnny Aitz excuse me?

All right, So give us the providence the origin story, if you may.

Well.

I first, I first heard the myth, which is what most people hear.

And there's a great book by I believe, Grail Marcus, and it has all sort of these these short littles.

An anthology book much like my own, but it's it's way better.

It's all about these sort of unknown hell raisers from the early rock and roll in R and B days, and.

There's and I have to be honest, I was not aware of Johnny Ace at all before you texted us about this topic.

And I do know the Elvis song, but kind of only in passing.

So I really am excited to dig into more of this sisty.

But you mentioned the kind of providence or the legend, the myth behind this sort of inciting events.

Talk about this today.

Yeah, I'm just gonna Jake, I'm going to interrupt you to brag about you.

Uh, Nolan, I'm just going to pile on.

Uh.

Jake has a book out pretty recently called Disgraceland Musicians Getting Away with Murder and Behaving very Badly.

I did read it.

I do think it's beat me here, Max.

I think it's amazing.

Wow, very well, Thank you so much.

I really appreciate that.

You know, there's a through line in that book thematically about grief, which is a big part of the Grand Parsons chapter in that book, and the and the two Elvis chapters, and Elvis was I believe perpetually.

Others believe this as well, sort of perpetually grieving this this loss like a phantom limb, which was the death of his of his twin brother who died at childbirth, and a lot of people think, you know, if they're gonna analyze some armchair psychologists, that that's sort of why he was so excessive.

He was trying to compensate for this thing.

And it plays into this story somewhat as well.

You know, it's like, you guys know what it's like because you're so you're you're so music, you're so music and culture conscious.

You know, like you come up in a in a scene and you have I'm talking about from Elvis' perspective, and they're sort of like older cool guys in your local local scene whatever it is, if it's music or if it's acting or if it's podcasting, and you're kind of you just you just I mean, honestly, no, it was a lot like the whole like stuff you should know, crew at iHeart, when I first got into podcasting, I was like, I want these guys to think I'm cool.

O, say, you know, prove me.

Let me put my hands by the window.

You know, while you guys are playing.

Yeah, I know, yeah.

Well, and also, I mean, you know, it's people you look up to, it's people that you want to hear.

It's the only way you get those stories, and it's the only real way to learn about a world like that, whether it be podcasting or blues music, and those things are definitely equivalent.

I and you can fight me on that.

I would die on that hill.

They are the same, yes, but no, these people are hugely important to the oral tradition and to kind of carrying on a legacy and a through line through a genre of music or a scene, much like you're talking about there in Memphis, which is a storied music scene right right right.

And so that's who Johnny Ace was to Elvis Presley.

He was the cool kid on the block, you know, and kind of obscure.

And he remained that way, you know, even even in his passing while Elvis was still alive.

And you know, the inciting incident.

The myth, if you will, is this is this story, and I'm going to get back to answering your question, Ben, the story that that Johnny Ace, this this great R and B singer who died at the age of twenty five years old tragically from playing Russian Roulette.

So I kind of heard that in passing as a young man.

And then when i started the Disgrace Lad podcast and I'm looking for these sort of music and true crime stories that I can tell, this pops up on the radar and I start researching it, and I'm like, mother didn't die from Russian Roulette.

Man, that's not at all what I mean.

It kind of is part of the story, but that's not what happened.

It's a myth though, right, it is a myth, And this is my favorite.

These are my favorite types of stories when you can really when you can do a podcast episode if there is a couple other big ones that are just like this, Like Mama cass Elliott from The Mamas and Papa's did not die.

She did not die from choking on a ham sandwich.

You know.

Michael Hutchins from In Excess did not die from auto eerotic asphyxiation.

And it was not Robert Johnson but Bobby Johnson.

Tommy Johnson Johnson.

I'm actually, I'm actually my head is fully in the Robert Johnson thing right now because I'm working on a documentary about how this is kind of the take on my Robert Johnson episode that Robert Johnson did not sell his soul to the devil.

Robert Johnson was the devil.

Hell yeah, if you actually support if you get into how Robert Johnson behaved and what he did and what he said about God, and how he spoke about real faithful people and people who had faith around his friend, his friends stopped hanging around with him because they were so like this guy's and then the whole trope of selling your soul to the devil.

I mean, that's kind of a grail.

Marcus makes the point that that's kind of a racist explanation of being.

How you got so good?

Exactly, White journals Exactly, they couldn't.

They couldn't explain his talent, which the guy sounds like he's playing guitar with three hands.

It's incredible.

Yeah, maybe he just what's the old joke?

How do I get to Broadway?

Says a tourist in New York?

Uh local says, uh, I think practice.

Carnegie Hall, but Broadway works as well.

That both of those you got to practice.

Can I tell you a quick, quick, uh a myth busting story about that?

That how do you get to Carnegie Hall for practice?

So I've actually played Carnegie Hall and I didn't practice at all.

A friend of mine was was part of Patti Smith's birthday party as a performer, my friend Adam from local Connie in in about four or five years ago at Carnegie Hall.

And you know, Patty gets out there, she's doing Gloria, and I'm side stage with all these musicians and all these musicians, Josh Ritter and David Johanson.

They just start walking out on stage to sing backups, and I'm like, I just kind of got caught up with them all.

There's a picture of me and Rolling Stone behind Patty Smith and Carnie.

That's amazing.

So one thing we love about a Chlorus is everyone can sing along.

Yes hopefully yes.

And again, Tom Waits, if you're listening, you are part of Americana and we'd love for you to hang out with Jake on his show.

Jake, the Boys and I were very close to getting Tom Waits to do a show with us.

Story he only accepts payments in nineteen fifty seven used Chevy car parts.

It's true.

And also, you know Pirate do balloon.

I literally can't tell if you're sing with me or.

Not, okay, and I usually can't.

And that's just the way of the world.

Like I don't believe that from Tom Waits, like I would believe.

A million pent man.

I love that.

What a good loafed trick he used to do.

And he would just have like, what is it like chalk dust like on the stage and he's just stomping in the chalk dust and it just looks like he's just kicking up dustbou It's the coolest thing.

What a cool guy.

I'd love to go back really quickly to your point about the racist trope or the inherent racist trope of like selling your soul of the devil, because nobody accused Django Reinhart of selling his soul to the devil, and that guy played guitar with two fingers.

Yeah, so I'm just.

The other ring, Yeah yeah.

Or Tony Iomi from Black Sabbath, who literally doesn't have fingertips and somehow somehow figured out how to create an entire genre called heavy metal.

No one, no one Tim is selling a soul to the devil either.

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I don't think it's one of these things that was like purposefully racist or or whatever.

It's just like it just it just happened.

And it's interesting when you when you when you actually unpack it and that that trope, you know, it goes back like me and the Devil Walking or whatever the lyric is from Robert Johnson, it actually goes back to the sort of blackface minstrel uh lyrics that you know, back then those songs were considered pop music, so Robert Johnson.

Would play those.

So the reality is he got a lot of that devil imagery in his lyrics from white dudes in blackface who were who were co opting black music from the slave era, you know what I'm saying.

So it's so weird for him to be reving to reverse cover the songs that were co opting this imagined version of his like legacy or his you know, his people.

That's really wild.

Mirrors game of telephone.

As we continue, uh, Jake nol, I believe we need to explain just briefly what we mean by Russian roulette, which is itself also mythologized.

Yes, sure, and it's also one of those things where yeah, it's exactly there's a lot of a lot of Russian.

There's a whole movie about it where there's like a Russian Roulette club.

I forget what it's called, but it's like a Eastern European art film and it's about this like fight club where people like play Russian roulette for whatever, as high a stakes as you could possibly have.

So, yes, do tell Jake, give us a little bit about Russian rule.

What is it?

Well, if you would both refer to the thirty two snubnose I sent to both of you, right, yeah, load both of those up the utility gun.

Yeah, there you go.

And then yeah, just there's one bullet in the in one bullet in the in the what do you call it the chamber there or the barrel, I don't even know.

Uh, just you know, make that go whirly whirl and then and then put it put it to her, put it to your yet there you go, There you go.

Now we don't know where the bullet is.

There's to do the hard click and close it.

Now that's the most badass movies.

He got it, Hey guy, Okay, there you go.

So now there's six options, there's six places that bullet might be.

It's only going to be in one, you have a one in six chance of shooting yourself in the head if you put that gun that thirty two stubs two year temple and pull the trigger.

Now, I'm you know, I know, we're not actually going to reenact that scene from Deer Hunter right here, as much as I kind of want to.

Uh, but this is what Johnny Ace would do for fun.

In addition to drinking courts of vodka.

Uh.

This was his sort of like parlor trick that he would whip out backstage to sort of entertain his friends.

He was quite quite a fan of just waving his peace around in general.

Right when I say his peace, I mean his his pistol.

Oh, we know we meant no.

So okay.

So this is different from Australian roulette, which, as we know, is the thing where you aim the gun at your lower parts.

Yeah, I'm doing geography jokes.

They're not all gonna land.

I thought that was real too.

So one out of six and this guy John Marshall Alexander right, full dame.

For Johnny Ace.

Yeah, if you say so, but I have it somewhere.

But yeah, that makes sense.

Okay, So Johnny Ace, we're going by this guy, this guy would literally jake backstage.

He would put a gun to his head.

Yeah yeah, do the spin and the click.

Yeah.

So this is a this is a Christmas story because this this.

Oh we forgot to mention.

This is our this is our holiday.

This this is our holiday episode.

Thank you Starbucks, Merry Christmas.

So this happens on Christmas Day nineteen fifty four.

He's backstage.

Johnny Ace's backstage with his labelmate and friend, Big Mama Thornton, who had the first hit with the Lieber and Stoller tune Hound Dog, which Elvis made a massive hit with later on.

So it's Johnny Ace, Big Mama Thornton backstage and Johnny Ace's girlfriend at the time, Olivia, and BB King is out on stage.

This is in Houston.

He's playing with It's kind of like a big review show and I think Johnny Otis is kind of.

Like the MC.

So there's a whole thing going on out there.

Johnny as has already played I believe, and he's back there and he's getting shit faced as he was wont to do with a court of vodka and he's you know, entertaining quote unquote Olivia, his girl, and Big Mama Thornton by playing Russian or trying to play Russian roulette.

Typically when you this is the thing, This is where the myth comes into play.

When you play Russian roulette.

It's three or four guys sitting around a table like we are a virtual table, but a real table, and and you spin the barrel and you click, and if you survive, you pass the gun to somebody else.

And people are betting on this, and you're betting on this as well, and you just pass the gun around until someone actually kills himself.

And this was that's Russian roulette.

Well, you spin it between the turn.

You spin it between the turns, I believe.

Can I just say the film that I was talking about, I just looked at it and it's called thirteen and it's pretty cool.

And in this article that mentions thirteen from Russia Beyond, they have some pretty cool stats.

So they break it down.

The first attempt you got a sixteen point six percent chance, the second twenty percent chance, the third twenty five percent, the fourth thirty three point three, and the fifth fifty percent.

The sixth shot, of course, is always fatal.

Oh okay, okay, Well you spin it between the turns.

Because you want to keep the casino going.

But it's not okay, you don't have to say.

I guess there's a version of it too where maybe you don't spin it, but like you, you know, wherever it starts, you've got that many you know you're gonna potentially land on the bullet eventually.

It could be two away, it could be three away, it could be four away.

So maybe you don't if you don't spin it, those are the Those are the odds.

I like your reference to deer Hunter Jake, which is fundamental.

It's fundamentally important to this because it already tells us our protagonist here, Johnny Ace is meeting with you know, secular popular success, but he's maybe not in the best place mentally if he's drinking a court of vodka and then say.

Playing with guns.

Yeah, say, hey, you know what we should do while I'm drunk.

We should try to shoot each other in the head.

Yeah.

I couldn't get a lot of info on Johnny Ace's state of mind.

Is not a lot written about him, but what I did uncover is that and this goes to sort of the conspiracy around this.

Okay, so there's the myth and there's the conspiracy, and I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna comment on your comment, Ben by setting these two ups.

So the myth is, of course he died playing Russian Roulette, which he did not.

He eventually does in front of Big Mama Thornton and Johnny Ace shoot himself and dies backstage, right.

So that's the myth, is that he played Russian Ulette.

No one else was playing.

They were trying to get him to stop, and he wouldn't stop.

Okay, there's there's a conspiracy, and then there's the truth, which is conspiracy adjacent that I happened to believe.

So the conspiracy is that Big Mama Thornton snuck a bullet into the twenty two that Johnny Ace had.

Because she was just tired of all his snites, all his foolishness.

He had just been acting a fool backstage, just drinking too much, throwing weapons around.

She was just like, I'm putting a stop to this.

And now we're at folklore.

Yeah, so that's a yes.

So we're saying the hidden bullet is the conspiracy theory.

This is the conspiracy.

Now people actually believe this.

I'm not one of them.

People believe the Big Mama Thornton had done this on behest of a guy named Don Roby, who is the most fascinating character in this story.

Don Roby was a proto sug Knight.

Don Roby was to R and B what al Pohone was to the Chicago Mafia.

Don Roby was a larger than life, violent, exploitative black Jewish gangster from Houston.

Didn't he wasn't he a label head?

Kind of yes, he was a Duke record.

He was the head of a record label that was first called Peacock, and then he merged that with a white radio promoter last name of Mattis, who had a label called Duke and then it became Duke Peacock for a while.

To paint the picture of who this guy was, he also had a club called like the Golden Peak.

Wasn't the Golden Peacock, but it was just something Peacock uh in Houston, And every Saturday morning he would take all the cash he made at the club the night before, throw it in a burlap bag, put it over his shoulder, take his shotgun, put two shells in the shotgun, put that on his other shoulder, and waltz downtown through Houston, daring anyone to fuck with him while he went to the bank to deposit the money.

He did this himself because he did not believe that anybody was tough enough, tough as him, violent as him, violent enough to fend off anybody who would actually try to rob him.

It's also a bit of a flex to like show how tough.

Oh yeah, yes, like you.

Were saying, Jake sug Knight is a pretty good analog.

Yes, exactly, that exactly.

Okay, so we got this, we got this character.

Mm hmm.

Yes, So Don Robi had all his bases covered.

He had he had the label which Johnny Yace was signed to, and Big Mama Thornton, Peacock Records, venue, the venue, the whatever Peacock Club, and then.

Probably also had some he could probably also touch local politicians, maybe law enforcement.

I don't know about that.

Who knows.

Probably, I mean that you start, who knows what those relationships are.

But he also had he was a booking agent, and he was one of the first successful promoters on what would become to be known the Chitman Circuit, which was the Black R and B network of clubs throughout throughout America during this time.

So he represented uh, he was the first, he represented Little Richard early on on the road, he represented Clarence Gatemouth Brown and T bone Walker, these Texas blues musicians.

So he's kinda got his hands.

He's all over the board.

And and what he wants more than anything.

What Don Roby wants more than anything is hit on the white pop charts.

Now, Johnny Ace had a hit on the R and B chart, number one hit with Oh God, what was the name of the song?

My song?

That was the name of the song, my song?

Number one hit for Johnny Ace on the R and B charts, didn't sniff the pop charts.

Big Mama Thornton, she does the liber and Stoller song I Ain't Nothing but a hound Dog.

It's a hit on the R and B charts, and Elvis covers it and it becomes a huge hit on the white charts.

But then it becomes kind of a novelty song.

But Don Roby starts to get a sniff of how much money is available if he can get a chart on the white if you can get a song on the white chart, on the pop chart, So he really wants this for Johnny Aace.

He thinks Johnny Ace is so cool, he's got the charisma to actually be able to pull this off to cross over, and it doesn't happen for Johnny Aace.

Now this when Johnny shoots himself.

It's nineteen fifty four, that's on Christmas Day, on New Year's Day, nineteen fifty three, Hank Williamiams dies, And what happens to Hank Williams single at the time.

It rockets up the charts and it becomes a hit number one hit, not on the country charts, on the pop charts, and Don Roeby goes, oh, okay, okay, when you die.

When Hank Williams I'll Never Get out of This World Alive is available for the public as a single and the artist dies, that'll go to the number one, number one on the pop charts.

Maybe not with his singles per se, but we've seen plenty of that phenomenon with like the death of Prince or David Rowley, like all of a sudden, purple rains like on the charts again like and people are just hard to find a reissue.

So this is very real phenomenon.

The question then becomes was the dude just a little bit callous in releasing the single post mortem, or did he actually manipulate events to create the situation that led to Johnny Ace's timely demise.

Yeah, so that single, Johnny Ace's single at the time the day he died on Christmas was Pledging My Love, was actually already out.

It had just been released.

So the conspiracy piece of this is that people think Don Roby had manipulated Big Mama Thornton into doing his bidding by slipping that bullet in the chamber.

So if you think Don Roby wants this number one hit, he wants Johnny Ace dead, then you've got motive.

If you think that Johnny Ace is a reckless drunkard who likes a lot of gunplay, then you've got Then you've got means.

And that's sort of how the conspiracy took off.

Right, Yeah, And then the question becomes, I don't know.

We talk about the stuff like this on our other show, Stuff they don't want you to know with our buddy Matt quite a lot.

And oftentimes the more elaborate the conspiracy, the less likely such a conspiracy was required to make the thing happen, You know what I mean.

It's just the situation was already rife for dude to blow his own head off by drinking too much and you know, flashing his gun around.

You're exactly right, You're exactly right.

And this is where the myth busting piece comes into play too, because what happens after he dies is it's perfect for Don Roby because the press, being the duplicitest lying scumbags that they just have forever been sure, they pick up the story and they leave out half the facts, and literally the headlines are that he died playing Russian Roulette, and he's got this song called Pledge in My Love and it starts to go up the charts, and it starts to become a huge hit.

And Don Roby's not gonna call anyone up at the Houston Chronicle and be like, oh, excuse me, you got that wrong.

No, he didn't die from Russian Roulette.

He died because he was drunk and playing with a gun.

So the myth just is allowed to take shape.

The records start.

To sell, and a guy like that can't buy that kind of coverage.

And that's just the right level of getting it wrong that benefits him because it creates it's this mythological larger than life, this crazy guy, not just this drunken buffoon who maybe had a little too much to drink and accidentally shot himself.

Well, now it's folklore.

Now it's zeitgeist.

Now it's also, as you said, Jake, it's hitting past the chitlin circuit, right, it's public interest.

Everybody is talking about it at the proverbial water cooler of the day.

What happens to Ruby.

In a just fantastic stroke of irony, Elvis is fishing around for songs for what would become his last record.

And this is in nineteen seventy six, and he still has his fascination with Memphis boy Johnny Ace.

So Elvis records Pledging My Love, and then Elvis dies.

The double tap, the double tap.

Yeah, exactly.

And Elvis's album is not a critical success.

That last record, I believe is called Blue.

What is it called?

Moody Blue?

Moody Blue?

Thank you No, And but it sells a shit ton as his albums did.

And what happens is Don Robie rakes in the royalties and his estate anyways, rakes in the royalties because Don Roby's dead by that that point, I don't remember how he met his end, but the sad irony is that Johnny Ace's family received.

Yeah nothing, zip zilch.

It's a good example of people like that that are taking advantage of you know, there's this guy's of like, I'm gonna help you out, I'm gonna lift you up out of the ghetto or whatever it might be, because you're my people and I have your best interest at heart.

But there's just as many examples of people like that taking advantage of their own, you know folks, and then giving bad contracts, you know, making duplicitous deals and then just keeping the money for themselves.

Or worse, dudes like Don Roby forcing their way into co writes even though they had nothing to do with the song.

You know what I mean?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man, that still happens, doesn't it.

I wouldn't doubt it's has.

Yeah, yeah, it's certainly there were there there was a golden age for that kind of stuff in politics.

I mean, maybe it happens more in politics, but in music it's a little hard to get away with that, I think these days.

But we also have you know, some Johnny A songs being covered by some other pretty big names, Bob Dylan and Joe Biaz did one of his tunes, never Let Me Go, on the Rolling Thunder review, which I think is featured in some of the film clips from that incredible tour.

Luther Vandross did a cover in the nineties of a song that he had recorded originally, and then, of course the biggest one was Elvis is Pledging My Love, which was on that nineteen seventy six record you're talking about.

Yeah, Yeah, Now, as we said, Johnny Ace passes away in uh what may seem like a long time ago, right, but we must remember history is always closer than it looks in the rear view mirror.

Uh.

A lot of people show up to the funeral, right, And I've got to ask if Jake is our buddy Dawn alive at this point?

Does he show up to see the passage of Johnny Ace.

He's definitely alive then, yeah, for sure.

And I can't say that I know he did or did not, but I would I would bet money that he did.

He was still sort of milking the cow at that point financially, and he was heavily invested in and.

He had an appearance to keep up because it wasn't going to be immediately apparent that he was taking everybody to the cleaner, right, he has to be supportive the same way of the community.

Yeah, who's that?

Who's that dude who took advantage of Elvis Presley Colonel the Colonel?

Yeah, okay, hardly.

As hell portrayed by Tom Hanks and Tom Hanks.

What an odd performance.

I'm sorry, man, I don't we don't.

I don't have footage of this guy.

I don't know what he was like, but Tom made some choices.

And yeah, Tom from earlier, that guy is so wholesome.

You know.

His main thing that uh Tom Hanks loves is typewriters more than acting.

Yeah, he collect Yeah, and Jake, if you if you have a typewriter and you type out a letter and send it to him, he'll probably type a letter back.

I love that, like Neil Young and his model trains.

Yeah, yeah, it's like Noel and his cocaine have it.

If you guys and my modular synse excuse me exactly?

All right, Max, we'll keep it and I'll say as we get de bosched when Jake's around, do you have any other like little closing thoughts or takeaways from the story, or how it kind of maybe you mentioned the tied into that grief aspect that was such a through line in your book.

I'm curious as to maybe how some of this fits in with that.

Well.

I sort of imagine Elvis Presley sitting in his jungle room, which was the man cave at Graceland, sort of, you know, it's Christmas time, the snow is falling lightly outside, and he's you know, he's you know, grief kind of comes back around the holidays.

I'm not the first one to say that.

And I could see him at that time sort of.

You know, it's nineteen seventy six.

He's in bad, bad shape, and he's he's fishing around, he's thinking about his brother, and he's thinking about that song Pledging My Love, and I could just, yeah, I could see that all clicking in the place dramatically and being motivation for Elvis to cover that tune.

Oh my god, you paint a picture, my friend.

I'm right there with you.

Yeah.

No, that's what a great little little Christmas boat to put on this pretty dark Christmas story.

Also, yeah, we all think a little bit about melancholy at this time.

Of the year, a little bit of nostalgia, right, and we get we all get a little counting crows.

Long December, I would.

Say, I think to Ben's point from earlier, is a Christmas song if you wanted to die.

I love that.

I love that.

I'm taping a show later today about Christmas movies and our Christmas movies, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that idea and pass it off as my own.

Ben something, please, please, I give you.

I give you full.

Yeah, thank you Noel for giving Jake permission for my idea.

There is one conspiracy theory we have to ask you about, since you are our expert on music history, and if you'd like to be a returning correspondent, we be absolutely just over the moon to have you.

Have you ever heard, Jake the idea that Elvis Presley is a malungeon?

First of all, I'd love to come back any time.

I might discredit myself here in that endeavor by saying, I don't know what a malungeon is?

What?

What is?

What are we talking about?

What is that?

Jake?

It's a it's a tri racial isolate in East Tennessee.

UH with dodgy genetics.

Uh yeah, usually accused historically of being let's see, how's it go?

No, it goes well, there's.

No it's it's it's considered a native like a first nation group, correct to some degree.

And then there's like a there's a treasure, there's a mythological treasure of the Melungeons.

And of course it has come up.

So I'm not scooping here, Ben.

I believe you are a member of this tri racial isolate.

I am, and it is a it is a subject of fascination, the idea that Elvis Presley might be maluncheon, that Abraham Lincoln might be a luncheon.

Basically, and just to you know, folks where an audio podcast, Noel, Jake, Max and yours truly can all see each other.

I don't have the tan to pull this off, but I'm mainly bringing this up to note that anytime someone achieves a certain threshold of fame, there will inevitably be folklore about them.

Should we agree with that?

Yeah?

Absolutely, absolutely so.

Jake.

What's a what's a myth or a piece of American or folklore you would like us to propagate about you?

And by that he means where can people find your work, because you've got the folk Lord's out there already in the book form and podcast form and video form.

You can out there.

You can listen to Disgrace Slam the podcast wherever podcasts are available, the iHeart app, the Spotify app, Apple podcasts, wherever that's available.

We're gonna bump this Elvis Johnny Ace archive episode up to the top right around the time that that this version of the Ridiculous History episode goes live, so people should be able to find it pretty easily.

And I'd love to have you guys on one of my bonus episodes.

Are you kidding?

Yeah?

No, And I'm not kidding at all.

Yeah.

Oftentimes, you know, like last week in the bonus episode, which is much different from the main scripted episodes, you know, I was talking about there's this big vidy, this big documentary, the Age of Disclosure.

Have you guys seen this?

It's fantastic, And I was talking about that relative to musicians like Merle Haggard was a huge He had a UFO experience and he would not shut up about.

At the end of his life, John Lennon put it into Nobody told me blank one eighty two we have an episode on Tom DeLong being part of the disclosure movement.

So oftentimes we touch on topics that you guys are interested that you guys are interested in, and I know, and we'd love to have you.

I'd love to have you on to just sort of, you know, have a go both ways.

Well between ridiculous history and stuff.

They want you to know, we're basically interested in everything that there is, So I think we could probably find a crossover opportunity.

Love that.

Love that, man, Dude, what a pleasure, haven't you.

This is such an interesting topic and a bit of a dark one for Christmas, But we did do Fruitcake last week, so I think we're okay.

We balanced it out.

You know, you got to have the light with the dark.

Yeah, you guys talked about my nineties band Fruitcake.

I love your work mainly just you know, Jake, when you listen, it's three hour podcasts, so not a time commitment.

Yeah, and the first two hours and fifty minutes are the study of your band Fruitcake.

The rest of it is just various historical Fruitcake restime.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's it.

The last Uh do Thank you so much for joining us.

Also, we have to thank a couple of other people, including our super producer, mister Max Williams.

Thank you Max.

Oh yeah, Alex Williams who composed this theme.

Who is this is maybe news to you, Jake, but is Max's actual facts brother, and he's in the town for the holidays and we're excited to hang out with him.

Love very soon.

Love Chris Frociotis and Eaves Jeffcoat both here in spirit.

Love that, And Jake.

I hate to hold you to the point, but ethics require can you give me one legend to make up about you?

About me?

That I am actually the grandson of Elvis Presley's twin brother, oh my, who did not die at birth, but was in fact given away to help people because his mama, Gladys, could not afford to raise him.

And that is our show.

That is a fact.

It is on record Library of Congress, fight with us.

Thanks guys, it is my pleasure.

I appreciate you.

Oh heck yeah, We'll see you next time.

Folks.

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