You seem to still be up there somewhere.

Maybe I am there are buying saucers supposing their margins or something in there.

Hey guys, welcome back to another Weird Wednesday.

I'm Ashers and this is Mallory.

Mallorie, thank you so much for being my guest host this week.

I have been looking forward to this all day.

I'm very excited.

I love that.

I hope you told everybody that you knew because we well, we need more listeners.

So you have to tell your grandma you know that you came on on Wednesday's We Talk.

Perch would be so excited.

Grad do you want to learn about cannibals?

She was like back in my day, we caught them people leaders.

She would love this.

I just know it.

Anyway, how was your weekends?

I had a busy but very boring weekend.

So Saturday, my husband and I woke up and we decided we were going to brave Costco on a Saturday morning.

Oh oh, brave and stupid.

I think hubris is the term.

Yeah, yeah, we went.

It was exactly like you would anticipate Costco at eleven am.

People were feisty.

People were very feisty, but you know, I got my hundred servings of Citron ginger.

Tea, so I was happy, Oh yeah, I gotta have that.

And then Saturday night we actually we watched a movie.

We watched the newest in the VHS series.

It's VHS Halideen.

Yeah, so we've watched all of them.

I think this is like the seventh or eighth installment.

There.

I don't know how I want to say this.

It's not a it's not a bad movie by any stretch.

It just it was a lot more gore and body horror than I am personally a fan of, without without like too much of the campy comedy, because the whole the whole thing is it's an anthology of shorts and each one is supposed to be, you know, just a campy Halloween style movie.

I don't know, it felt kind of flat for me.

I was I was disappointed.

I mean, I think it's perfectly acceptable to not enjoy a series seventh or eighth movie in the series.

Usually that's the case, right, It's I think that's fine.

I've never watched any of the VHS movies really, never seen not one of them.

Ye, I don't, I don't, just haven't you know, I know we're recent.

I just haven't gotten around to checking them out yet.

I think we found them initially because my favorite flavor of horror is found footage, and these are all found footage shorts.

I think that's why we started watching them.

And then it was like our tradition every year, you know, they released them like clockwork around this time, so we would always watch them.

Well, okay, very cool.

Anything else we did this weekend?

Honestly, Sunday I was just sort of nursing a migraine.

Yeah, but.

I got in lots of good naps, so that was good.

Jealous, but yeah, it was.

It was pretty chill for Sunday.

What about you?

How was your weekend?

It was?

You know, it was exciting.

I did.

So we have this thing locally, it's referred to as Huber Haunts.

Okay, so Huber Heights iiO has, Thank you, they have kind of been.

Okay, let me start from the beginning.

I guess because I forget y'all an't from here, so you don't know what I'm talking about.

Okay, So we have Fairborne, Ohio.

And in Fairborn, Ohio, it is unofficial or probably more official Halloween town the main strip of the town is owned by this family.

It's It's and they have like this a series of stores okay, it's called Foys, and Foys has like they have like an adult costume store, a kids costume store, a haunted house like prop store.

They've got like a novelty store.

I mean they know a lot of the yeah, like a lot of the strip, and they're really dedicated to like Halloween, and so every year during Halloween they go really big.

They have a haunted House on the strip, They have a big Halloween festival.

The owners and stuff decorate like crazy around the area and then people just in general around the area have gotten really into it and so they've and it's really neat.

But let me tell you, huber Haunts is like very quickly overtaking the Halloween town Moniker like like Huber Heights is doing it big.

So I don't know when exactly this started, but every year they have some type of game.

So they'll like make a map and like make like a list of addresses of different people who participate in the game.

Last year they had like they had these wooden cutouts of different cartoon characters, right or you know, not just cartoon characters.

There was like Michael Myers and Jason and stuff too, And so you had like the list of houses and you had to go to the house and you had to find the character and then like yeah, and then like you have like a sheet that you had to fill out and you know, mark down what character was at what house, and then you turn it in and then like at the end of the season, they'll do like this huge prize drawing for everybody who completes it.

Oh yeah, And so you know, not all of the houses get super into it.

Some just do basic decorations so it's just fine, but a lot of them get like big into it, and they have some of the craziest fucking home Halloween decor I've ever seen any light.

But it's very very cool.

It's very fun, and sometimes they get really creative with characters, and so they can be kind of hard to spot and a little tricky and you know, but it's it's really neat and so we were very excited to do that.

We kind of you know, found out about it last year, but it's been going on for years and we were super excited to do it this year.

And the map came out this weekend, so but it just came out Sunday yesterday.

However, we've discovered other places around Huber Heights that participate outside of the map, so they don't always do clues and stuff.

Some do, but they're like home haunts.

So the one place we went to, it's called Harshmanville Haunts because it's on Harshmanville Road and Hubert Heights, Ohio, and it is fun lou insane.

It's a haunted house, but without any actors.

First of all, okay, okay, so you go to this person's sucking house in the middle of the neighborhood and there is like a couple of walkthroughs to do, two different walkthroughs.

The very first one.

Now they'll kind of change the order of it and change it up a little bit every year, but this year it was you know, you walk through and you start off in like a cemetery and the scares come in with their animatronics, right, so you activate the animatronic, it'll jump out, you jump at you, or do whatever, and it's creepy and it's unsettling.

But when you enter into this maze, you are literally transported to a whole new world.

Oh my gosh, it.

Is fucking wild.

So you go through the cemetery.

Then you get to there's like a structure build on the property.

It's like a little hut and it's like the Witch's area.

So there's all these like witch animatronics, there's stirring potions are talking to you, there's cool lighting and there's and it's really neat.

And then you walk out of that and it gets insane.

If two other structures that they've built, and these structures are very fitting for this this episode this week, they are like human butcher shops.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, so they have like display cases with like pieces of like human meat and brains and organs, and the side of the whole thing's lit up red.

Even though you're outside, Okay, that whole area is lit up in red.

There's people hanging off of meat hooks.

I mean, it's nuts.

And you're just like where am I right now?

A lot and it's just like in the middle of a residential area.

Yes it's someone's house.

Yeah, you just go for free and yeah, it's it's crazy.

So, like you go through like that section, like they've built up a little scene where like there's this creepy woman and she's cooking and again she's not real, but you your brain does not know that you're breaking out, and so yeah, and that's like the big to do there.

Well, then you come out of that and then now it's kind of one to the next area and they have a full ticket booth with a clown sitting inside of it with a doctor Spaulding hanging out on the outside of it or I'm sorry, Captain Spaulding, not doctor Spaulding.

My god, geez, so embarrassing.

I'm never gonna hear the end of that, guys.

Wow, I know.

But they have another maze that that you go through, and this one's like, I mean, it's made out of like black tarp.

It's straight up as black tarp.

And you go into it and there's different hallways for you to go down again made by black tarp.

But as you go through the different hallways and you traverse to the different areas, you come upon different scenes.

And these scenes are the whole thing.

The whole fucking thing is clown's whole thing.

Oh oh, I don't know about that.

I'm not an afraid of clowns person Like, I never have been that type of person, but it is terrifying.

It's fucking horrifying.

So of course a lot of it is like, uh, you know it's animatronics, right, that's a that's a big one.

They've got the one with the Georgia.

It's arm ripped off and he's flanning around, and then you know, killer clowns from outer space, Like that's another one.

Yeah, but you turn the corner.

At one point there's like an open window, like there's like an open cutout, and you're like, oh, what's going on here?

And you start to walk past it and a fucking clown jumps into the window and starts laughing at you.

Nope, now, and this is not a person again, it's not a person.

It's all robots.

But you, your brain does not know that.

At one point, there's like this whole scene with all these different clowns on both sides of you.

There's two different scenes.

On one side, there's a bunch of them.

They're not you know, they're creepy but not not particularly special.

Right behind you the whole time are these massive, fucking massive clowns and they're just laughing.

They're the whole time, and they're moving and stuff.

And they're laughing, and then like you're trying to like look at the other clowns and see what they're doing, and the clown's fucking behind you and in front of you, and it's just it's really unsettling.

Oh my god, have you ever seen hell House?

LLC?

No, I haven't.

Oh your description of the Haunted House just called me back to a scene with a clown and no, thank you one clown.

It was the only clown that wasn't m M a prop.

Oh okay, I got well, And that's what you expect the whole time.

You're like, Okay, somebody at some point is going to be real, right all of this, you know what you've been through before.

But nobody ever is.

And that's good because I would probably pee myself in front of everyone right there in their driveway.

I can't leave my mark.

Oh, I would kiss my pants and I would tell everybody that I.

Did you get for scaring me?

You know, I'm just saying, no, it is, uh, it's it's really fucking cool.

It really is.

It's really I mean, honestly, if you're if you're like, well like two hours from there, take the drive.

It's worth it.

It's really neat.

But that's just one of many.

And that was just my Friday night.

So Saturday was a little more chill.

I that's when I started watching The Terrible and I'm sure you guys have seen me bitch about it enough online.

The Terrible ed Geen, Uh, you know, fucking whatever you want to call that.

It's not a documentary or anything.

It's just really bad.

The recent Uh if you don't know, for some reason, you live under rock.

The recent Monster the ed Geen story came out, and uh, it's bad, guys, it's bad.

And the amount of people that I've seen defending it is uh, just really unsettling to me because you know, I don't know.

I watched The Dahmer one.

Okay, I didn't watch The Menendez Brothers one because I you know, man, I've just don't give a fuck about them.

Me Nindez brothers.

I really don't.

Piss me off, I get it.

Right, I mean, I just I'm not interested in hearing about them anymore in my life.

You know, when the damer One was okay, but it definitely had some artistic liberties, right, so it's like, okay, there's some things in here, but for the most part, it was pretty accurate, and I was like, Okay, well, watching this, it is just a piece of shit.

Ed Gean is killing people with chainsaws, multiple people.

He kills a lot of people.

Oh my gosh, there's a whole love interest side story.

Yes, it's a girl friends a fiance at one.

Point fuckable ed Gean.

What Yeah, it's uh, you know, which he does masturbate a lot while wearing women's clothing.

I don't mind that so much.

Like I was like, okay, but you know, but then it just gets weird.

His mom starts talking to him and it's like, no, what's.

No?

Thank you?

Yeah, you know, I honestly haven't seen anything good about it.

That's I believe that, and I know I agree with you.

A lot of people are saying it's really terrible, but a lot of people like, oh, I liked it.

I liked it for what it was.

You know, it's shot well, all the acting is really good.

Everybody in it does a good job being who they are, except the weird ed Gaen voice, which is, to me, it sounds like Barney Rubbell from The Fucking Rick Rana's Barney Rubell from the nineties.

Flix oh well turned to get over.

Uh but no, it's just it's not good.

And it's like, what are we doing?

Like, what are we doing y'all?

Like like, look, I get it, y'all.

I have a comedy podcast.

So we've talked plenty about murder and and grotesque nature of things, and we're gonna do that more today and we make it funny, but you know, yeah, there's there's got to be a line somewhere.

You can't like poke fun at the violence like you have to, you know, and for us to be sensationalizing it to that degree and and embellishing, you know, the original, because now you have people that have never I don't know the story of ed Gane and they're like, oh, I didn't know he had a he had a fiance, and it's like, we fucking didn't.

Yeah, that's what his problem was, probably.

Work.

I never got laid, you know.

And it's like, so now you're gonna have all these people, and it is on us as the viewer to have self accountability right and to do our due diligence and research these times, just like the conjuring movies and stuff, you know, you gotta you gotta research it on your own.

But you know, at the same time, like how many people are really going to go out of their way to do that?

Not a lot of them, you know, So we gotta we gotta cut that shut out.

So get that one.

Don't watch it.

That's a good point.

It did have some pretty good gore though, So if you're into that.

You know, as we learned earlier, no thank you from me.

Yeah, it was something else.

And then uh, and then Sunday I went to I did some nice family fall fest of all activities.

I went to a nice local uh you know farm, Lucas Brothers Farm, and you know, it's good hay rides and pumpkins and slushy apple cider.

It was great.

It was not a terrible weekends.

That sounds lovely.

Thank you.

I have severe party girl voice today.

I'm just really struggling sometimes the voice situation.

So if it cracks and stuff whatever, you know, get over it.

Had a good weekend, that's a that's a sign of it.

On to let's do.

Let's do some news.

I would love to.

Talk about some news.

I have one news And at first when I saw this, I was like, fuck, yeah, dude, good for him.

And then I became increasingly confused as I continue to read the story.

So on September eighth, in a town called Miniola, Texas, I think that's how you say it.

That's how I'm saying it.

A man was, you know, driving down the road when he accidentally hit and killed a dog.

Oh no, horrible, right, horrible.

The owner of the dog, Alberto Joshua Hernandez, approaches the driver angrily.

You know, he's very angry his dog just got hit and killed by this guy.

But he approaches the driver waving around a very serious looking gun.

Okay.

He forced the driver to get out of the vehicle to gather the animal's remains to dig a grave for the animal.

Okay, okay, I'm not I'm not mad yet.

Right, you're like, that seems reasonable to me, hit my fucking dog.

At least you could do right and bury them, you know, I get it, right.

But when they were finished, Hernandez demanded that the that the driver get in the car and drive him to the nearest ATM, where he forced the driver to withdraw two hundred dollars to compensate him for his host bet oh, dear, like, hmm, okay, I'm still kind of on board, but nothing.

That's kind of weird and of course you know her he did so, and uh, you know the guy.

There's video footage of them at the ATM, him with the gun pointed at him, trum drawn two dollars and then Hernandez told the driver that he will be back, he will track him down in the future for even further compensation.

Oh oh, and then he let him go.

So the driver of course went and told the police, Uh, you know what happened, and well, Hernandez was arrested and it's being charged with aggravated kidnapping and aggravated properties.

Oh gosh, what like the first half I was with you full John Wick, like yeah, yeah, fuck that.

Guy hit my fucking dog, asshole, and then it's then it just I don't know, you know, it makes you do weird things.

Okay, I'm not ready to completely write this guy off as a psychopath, but like, you know, because I get it, but what the fuck, dude, you could have had it all.

Too far.

There's part of me that also wonders, like, I don't take a gun to take my dog on a walk.

I guess there are people that do.

So.

He says that this is where it gets really weird.

And at first I was like really, because okay, the driver said that he hit the dog or whatever on accidents, and you know, the dog dies and a silver truck approach behind him, and that's when Hernandez gets out of the truck and like that's him and he's like, that's my fucking dog.

You shot you know, you hit my fucking dog.

And but then he goes into the house, gets the gun and comes out.

Uh oh, So I don't know if maybe the dog got out and he was like chasing the dog or I don't understand how this all, how this happened, how this guy to that pint to begin, I just don't I don't know.

Yeah, and now I'm wondering, like did the driver of the car who hit the dog.

Was he staying to like do the right thing?

I think it sounds like he was.

But he said that he had him retrieve the dog from a ditch, So it's like, so what oh, So it's like, okay, so did he try to put the dog in the ditch and was just gonna go Did he hit the dog so fucking hard that I got thrown into the ditch?

Oh?

My gosh, how do we know the dog was even dead?

Yeah, I'm gonna need I'm gonna need like a whiteboard with a timeline.

I need to know how fast the vehicle was going.

I need more information.

I mean even still, Honestly, if I was on that jury, I'd probably still let him go.

I'd like put the dog did, show a picture of that dog in court.

Now, it would be over for me, Like I deserved an asshole.

He should get me two hundred dollars during this then I rob him.

He just gets robbed at twelve times.

After the case, He's like, what the fuck, I don't even have that much money.

The last person's like, I don't care, give me your shoes.

Yeah, I don't.

It's a weird story.

It's it's really out there.

His bond has said at three hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

I mean, that's a pretty serious crime.

I get it.

I you know, I don't you know what The death penalty in general is a weird thing for me, right because it's it's custom fit to your situation.

If it were my dog, Would I act that irrationally?

Because I probably would?

Yeah?

There there is there's like you always want to put yourself in other people's shoes in these situations.

I love my dogs.

I have two dogs.

Would I would I do something stupid?

Probably probably yeah, But like also, i've hit animals before.

I've never hit a dog, but I did hit a cat one time.

Yeah.

I was very destroyed.

I couldn't even drive at home.

I was so upset, you know.

One time I went to work and I'm like ugly crying.

Everybody's like, what's wrong with you?

I had hit a squirrel and I felt so terrible.

I was like, oh my god.

And then the very next day I went to go into work and I'm driving down the same road where I hit.

The squirrel's still there, and fucking bird swoops down in front of the car, and I'm like, oh my god, but I don't I didn't hit him.

I think he was trying to get revenge for a squirrel friend.

Oh he recognized me.

Sorry about your squirrel friend?

Did I start crying.

I'm like, I'm sorry, you know, because so if I had ever hit someone's dog like I would, I'd be like just pull the trigger, like I'm terrible, you know.

So it's tough to say because that that that guy deserve that kind of treatment.

You know, it was probably genuinely in accident.

Yeah, and that shit sucks.

But you know, just control your dog, bro like it's it's sense, you know, just get it together and keep your dog on a leash and you'll be fine, I would hope.

So anyway, that was my weird news.

Well I have some weird news.

If you'd like to hear it, let's hear it.

Yeah, So Rose and.

Nissi of South Africa was caught.

She had She was charged with possession with intent to sell.

And you may ask yourself what did she possess because you know, you read that headline, there's nothing weird about that.

Sure, she was in possession of an indeterminate amount of human placentas.

Delicious, Yeah, that was that.

Why she had them, was the cell to eat.

So I went down an absolute rabbit hole with this because quick, quick biology lesson from your friendly local science librarian.

Placentas they are transient organs that develop during pregnancy.

And it's how like the developing baby gets all of their nutrients, antibodies, blood from the mother.

So these are not organs that you can transplant.

They're you know, delivered with the baby after the birth.

Like there two no, exactly, Like, there's no way there's a black market for this, the way you would have for like a kidney, right, So yeah, it is really a fairly common, traditional, traditional medicinal belief that eating the placenta, like human placentas, can increase fertility, can increase breast milk production, can even increase immunity.

So there are some people they'll keep their placenta after a birth and feed it to their families.

Yeah.

Yeah, so it.

Seems likely that, yes, she was in possession with the intent to sell them for these medicinal purposes.

Well, and like eating placentas is like not, it's not unusual in America even so like don't because this was where in Africa?

Yeah, this was South Africa.

But the you're exactly right, this tradition of eating placentas, it is, it is also fairly common in Western cultures as well.

Yeah, this is a thing that people do.

I I wanted to do it, uh you know when I had my child, and I was like I kind of want to do that.

Well because and we'll talk about it a lot more this episode, but you know, because when's the next time I'm gonna have the chance to eat something human.

Right, very true.

So so you consider all those possibilities, you know, you're like, oh, should I do this?

Should I do that?

There's lots of weird having babies.

It's fucking weird to you guys, it's strange.

I mean there's so much, especially like you know, my God, don't get me.

I was gonna say, don't get me started on circumcision, but like, let's talk about that.

If you're having a boy, one of the decisions that you have to make during your pregnancy is, am I gonna cut the foreskin off my son?

Like?

It's fucking weird.

And you always see there's so many things that nobody warns you about too, Like I do not have children, so I just see, you know, the secondhand stories of people saying, oh, yeah, you get like electrical lightnings and you're, huh, that's a thing.

I never had that happen.

That sounds kinky.

I'm not making it up.

I mean I tried at least twice.

You gotta make sure you don't like it.

No, there there is a lot.

There's a lot of sleep weird stuff.

I mean, even like you know, coughing afterwards you're like, ouch, I get that sucks, but no, there's a lot of weird stuff that you just, like I said, you have to make decisions on or you know, you have to.

You have to learn about this like saving the like the blood from like your umbulic accord and things like that that you can do that's really beneficial, you know.

And so the placenta thing was one of them, and I was like, yeah, I kind of like if they asked me, like do you want to keep this?

I would have been like yes, But they didn't ask soon and I was too afraid to ask.

That was pretty good.

I was twenty when I had my daughters.

I wasn't very confident or forward in anything that I was doing in my life, you know.

So I think that if I was if I was who I am now and I had kids were kids, I'd be like, fuck, yeah, save that shit.

But no, it is.

It is a very common thing that that happens.

I mean so common that you could probably even if you're not having kids or not planning on having kids, or you know, you you aren't a woman, I'm sure you could actually find someone local who'd be willing to share theirs with you.

Oh, no, like I'm sure.

And the thing is with with Rose, she was a janitor at the hospital, so she was just collecting the pathological waste from the labor and delivery unit.

That's how like, that's how she was getting ahold of it.

She's like not throwing that away.

This is good eating.

I've heard they're very it's very It probably tastes a lot like liver, is what I imagine.

Yeah, it's a very irony, you know, But I mean, does she is The intent that was that she was going to sell them?

Yeah, So I think the major problems were one lack of consent from the donors, from the people who were that yeah, losing these organs.

But yeah, the fact that she was trying to sell them for profit on the organ market was I think the larger issue.

But I mean that's like if we, like if somebody were like raiding a pharmacy dumpster, you know what I mean, Like, is that really they're just throwing it out?

Yeah?

Like where's the line?

Because if you see it on the side of the street in a trash can, it's fair game.

Sure, Yeah, I mean and that's pretty much what she did, except in the hospital sterle environment you know, I don't know.

I don't so much.

I just thought she was having a barbecue or something and was like, oh, there we go in the fan over weird and disgusting.

But but it is, you know, and it is ethically strange.

Again, you are eating a part of a human you know, technically, so obviously when we talk about it here, there's some people that are like, wow, ashers, you would really do that?

That's really just and you think like, worse of me now, But it's not like what's the problem, Like what exactly is the issue there?

I mean, you know, yeah, that's uh, that's my opinion on something like that.

Anyway, I don't really you know, I don't really don't really see that it's a victimal's crime.

You're not wrong.

There are far worse crimes that one could commit.

Absolutely so well.

Speaking of that is actually a a it has a name.

It is a known form of cannibalism.

It's called medicinal cannibalism, where people will eat parts of body parts or know obviously things like placentas in order to gain It's kind of supernatural, right, There's really no proof.

It's more of a pseudoscience, I guess, Yeah, you know, where people can gain certain attributes from it.

The placenti deal, it just depends.

Some people are like, it's just super healthy, you know, and I like to pay it taste.

So like the medicinal side of things, there's a concept that like heels like and that's sort of where a lot of traditions come from.

Like I know, when I was younger and like just first starting to menstruate, my mom always insisted on liver once a month, liver and onions.

She's like, you don't want to you.

Don't want to get a kneemaic and it's, oh, I I can't eat liver to this day, and that I won't do.

But it comes from this concept that, yeah, you eat a plus centa potentially to increase your fertility or to increase breast milk production.

So that's where that like concept comes from.

Yeah, right, I mean it's there's definitely you know, some some logic behind it, you know, but yeah, that is uh again, the basis for this episode of You Guys this week, we're going to talk about cannibalism.

We are how lucky.

I will say, that's Mallory.

You you did pick this topic.

I mean you had choices, and this is what you went with I did.

So I'm gonna ask you a very important question.

What's your favorite food?

All the questions, of all the questions.

I'm gonna be real with you.

That's not when I was expected.

I'm good.

It gets worse fantastic, Okay.

So I'm going to be so real with you and our listeners here, and it's quite polarizing.

There is nothing I love more than a classic, classic, nineteen ninety five vintage tuna casserole.

Tuna.

I love that.

I just oh, man, my mom, like when I go home.

She lives somewhat far away from me.

Every time I go home, she doesn't even ask anymore.

It's tuna noodle casserole.

That's what I want.

At least.

It's not love for on onions.

Hard pass.

Thanks man.

That's that's a good pick.

That's a really I mean, it is good.

It's nice and and hearty, and it's very much a comfort food.

Right it is nodle castle.

H that's very good choice.

I'm I see, it's not that simple because it changes so much.

I have food issues in general, and so I'm one of those people get super obsessed with the certain food and that's all I eat for like six months straight, and then I can't ever eat it again.

Yep, yep, and then you hate it, like, oh it's.

Ruined, and for like until like three years later you're like, why did I ever stop eating this?

It's like what beeats.

But it's pretty consistently breakfast.

Oh love breakfast, you know, all of it, the whole the eggs, the bake and the pancakes, fridge toast, oh come on.

And I think that's one of the reasons I like breakfast.

It's because when you start to get sick of one of the things you prepare, you can just switch it out for something else.

Like it's so versatile and so it's it's just always a good idea for me.

Oh you got sweet, you got savory, you got everything in between.

Oh yeah, breakfast is super good.

But I will tell you I'm not a big fan of red meat, yeah, or or poultry, you know.

To be honest, I am pretty much pescatarian, but more my choice rather than ethics, just because if I'm going to eat you know, if I'm gonna eat meat, most of the time, it's going to be seafood of some sort.

Yeah, you know which is people think that that's very unusual.

But like, I'm not a steak girl and I'm not a chicken girl.

So I'm right there with you at the tuna noodle.

That's good stuff.

Sauce and noodle and tuna great.

I can't go wrong.

Well, getting into other things cannibalism, I'll tell you this has been a trying, a very trying episode too.

I'm not squeamish, but I do get squeamish when it comes to to this topic.

Can get really really dark, and uh, we're gonna go there.

You guys are ready to go there with us, obviously.

If this is not for you, turn it off now again, it's just getting it worse, but it gets good.

I have a palate cleanser at the end.

Uh huh hilarious.

Yeah, no, thank you, and we'll get So what is cannibalism.

Cannibalism is the act of of of a specific species eating They're same species, right, They're they're like species.

It's not something that's just seen in humans.

But we most of the time, like if you think cannibal like, you're not thinking about the girl mantis biting off the head of the male mantis.

No, you know, you're and maybe you think about like cannibalistic indigenous tribes, but for the most part, when you think of cannibal your mind goes to hannibal actor Jeffrey Dahmer.

You know, cannibal's right, the hardcore, dirty gritty, and we're going to get into some of those, of course, but I think it would be a disservice if we didn't talk about, you know, pretty much all the different types of cannibalism.

Now as the US, as the local scientists there, do you want to talk about some cannibalism in like the animal Kingdom?

Yeah, so actually in the animal Kingdom, cannibalism so like a frog eating a frog is actually quite rare.

The whole point of evolution, right is to reproduce and to make things more genetically diverse.

So by eating another member of your species, you're kind of inherently going against that.

And I think that's a big part of why for humans too, this can be like a very squeamish, you know, like you said topic, because it goes against everything that we are genetically programmed to do, which is conserve that genetic diversity.

Now, I do have a really quick sidebar of There's a fantastic book called Cannibalism, A perfectly natural History that does focus on cannibalism in the animal kingdom.

It's by Bill Scutt, really approachably written scientific literature.

My husband also brought that on a cruise, so I got to make eye contact with a lot of old ladies who would walk by in their little swimsuits and do a double take at my husband reading this book called Cannibals.

Well, because exactly like I said, when you think of the word cannibal like you don't you think of the worst of the worst.

Yes, I mean so very interesting.

Wow, I think that.

I hope that Bill Scott also writes smut.

If he doesn't, he is missing out on a huge market.

Huge market.

You know that's smut, Like.

Come on right, and it should be cannibal smut at that?

Oh my gosh, that's so funny.

Well, okay, so anyway, getting back to it.

You know, one thing I meant to I meant to google, is to figure out, you know, why different animals might might consume each other, because sometimes they do.

If you've ever owned any type of animal that that has bred in your life and they've bred with regularity.

For instance, my mom, she had hamsters for a very long time and would breed them, a special kind of hamster.

I don't fucking remember what they were.

Cute, that's what I know.

But they were expensive, and you know, of course she would breed them and she would sell them, and the mom sometimes would eat the babies.

Yeah, a lot of the times she would eat the babies.

And she saved one one time.

He was kind of hidden, but his foot was wrapped up in like some of the bedding, and so he did end up losing his foot, but he got to survive mom's wrath and he lived along great life.

His name was Kimpy.

He was great.

But you know, why, why why would she do that?

You know, what was what was the point of that?

I mean sometimes, you know, mother animals will eat their babies if there's something wrong with them, if they're sickly, if they may slow down the rest of the group, because like you said, they they run on just pure instinct, and so if it is going against the greater good, then they're that's what they're going to do.

I mean, I hate to say, you guys, but like some of these animals, like they're Nazis right.

They they practice eugenics.

It's terrible they do.

I mean, I mean, you're not entirely wrong, it.

Is.

It's interesting that you mentioned the captive bread animals though doing this because the one place in the animal kingdom that it's really common, and when you think about it it makes sense, is tadpoles in little puddles.

Okay, they can to engage in cannibalism because there's just not enough space for realistically them to survive.

So if there's a certain population density that they're sensing around them, they will start to engage in cannibalism.

And I'm kind of wondering with like animal's bread and captivity, if that's just triggering a certain part of their brain like oh shit, there's not enough space here for all of us.

Yeah, yeah, that's well, and that's very I mean, obviously she never told us exactly why she was doing it.

We asked her, We're like, why are you doing this?

Like what's going on?

Mama?

So you need what's the issue.

And she just looked at us and kept chewing her you know, her salary or whatever.

Mom's the word.

But yeah, no, that is really interesting.

Well, and exactly I mean, you're right, there's not enough resources, and so it's either we all get not enough to survive, or we kill some of you and then we get it all we can survive.

You know, it really just depends.

It's definitely case by case.

I mean, with with so many different eclectic species on the planets, you know, if you're super interested in hearing about one specific animal and why it does what it does, you know, I suggest looking it up.

Right, We've got computers in our pockets.

It's really cool, you know, and I'm sure you'll find out why.

But you don't want to hear about the animal kingdom and the cannibalism that they commit.

I know you don't.

I know what you're I know what you're here for.

You want to hear about people eating other people.

I get it.

So cannibalism is a little more.

It's kind of a it's kind of a privilege in modern days.

I mean, I know that sounds real fucking weird, and it sounds like I'm just trying to be funny, but like I'm not.

It's true.

You know, back in back in the day, you have a lot more.

You still didn't really have a ton of people killing and eating people for survival.

You did have that to some extent, which is where we end up getting cautionary tales of cannibalism.

Well, gosh, I guess I'm throwing it out there front, like The Wind to Go.

Yeah, it's very much a cautionary cautionary tale of cannibalism, which is, of course, if you don't know The Wind to Go, I don't think you've ever even listened to the show, but you know, it's an algonquin spirits that possesses people whenever they they you know, consume their family and their friends whoever whatever, they eat each other.

And you know, the reason why they had to have something like this cautionary tale is because you know, these are the algonquins, like they live through the harsh winters outside.

Yeah, and you know, pretty much you would get to the point to where you'd have a harvest and you would try to prepare.

I mean, you'd spend all the warm months preparing for the cold months just to barely survive it and then do it all over again.

And the downside of it was that when you got to the end of that harvest season, you kind of had a pretty good idea of if you were going to make.

It or not.

Oh, that's such a good point.

Yeah, And so you know, you're looking around and you're like, fuck, I don't have enough food.

And that's not just like, you know, it's not like you could be like fuck, I ran out of deodorant, right, I'll stink, but I'll be okay, Like you're out of food, like you're going to die.

And so desperate times call for desperate measures, you know, instead of you going you know, having your survival and stink kick in and go, well fuck it, I'll just eat I got eight kids here, I'll just eat three of them.

I'll still a five.

You know.

They ended up creating this cautionary tale, and it's mostly because even at that point in history, we had had such a history of trying out cannibalism.

Because I'm sure we probably looked around on each other and like, man, I'm really fucking hungry.

Yeah, guy looks good.

Why aren't we eating them?

And everybody's like hmm, it's a good point, you know, and then they try it.

But what we had found out, what we didn't quite understand at that time, was that when you eat other people, mostly very specific parts of other humans, it makes you very, very very sick, and so we kind of created stories around that concept because we knew people were getting real fucking sick from doing this, but we didn't understand why.

And everything at that time was you know, spiritually based, right with some type of religion, So we kind of would create stories around it, you know, incomes, like I said, something like the wind to Go, where you know you are possessed, you become a terrible, horrible person, and then your bloodlust is you know, insatiable, and they don't have a choice but to kill you.

That's uh so anyway, that's my quick wind to go run down.

See.

I didn't think about it as the as the literal like getting ill, because there are there are like prion diseases you can acquire only through eating, like the human brain and that kind of thing.

I always saw the Wind to Go as more of like an allegory about greed.

I didn't think of it as like a cautionary tale for these physiological issues that can happen.

So the interesting thing about it being an allegory for greed is that it it is now you know, they don't really need to use it as a cautionary tale as much because they're not trying to eat each other anymore.

Like you know, we're not trying to eat each other anymore, but it's still very much a concept that's alive.

And well, you know, in those tribes, they still definitely subscribe to the idea of a wind to go, but now they've had to like shift that narrative and it's had to grow.

Just like all folklore, it's had to grow with times.

So you're not you're not far off, I'll give it to you, But no, definitely, I mean, well, and you know, like I said, it's just I mean they had to.

They had.

It's you have to create rules to stop bad behavior.

And that's kind of the basis for like all religion in our world, right, So you know that's you have to have some type of ethical code to stop us from eating each other.

Why is it bad that we eat each other?

Right, It's because it makes them sad because now they're dead and their dinner.

No, it's because it makes us real fucking sick, and that doesn't do well to kick off our survival, you know, like you said, it just that's not what we're built for.

Even though nowadays we're in twenty twenty five, and we have things like electric and plumbing and you know, things like that.

Our brains are still very much in tune to that survival instinct, but their concepts that we often can't or don't really think about because we don't need to as much anymore.

And it's cool because we're watching us evolve over time as as we evolve over time.

Yeah, it's so it's horrifying to think too back in the day, like you would you would know right around this time whether or not you were going to survive the winter or not.

Yeah, that is such a horrifying concept.

Like I'm I'm a hobby canner, Like I can jam and random shit from my garden with my mom every year, but that's like jam and jelly and fun stuff that is not I couldn't imagine.

I couldn't imagine having to rely on myself to survive in that way.

And not only that, but then looking at my pantry and saying, oh, I can't feed my family for the next six months.

Yeah, this is it, and this is what I got.

Fuck.

You know, it's it's like probably like being on death row.

You know, you know you're gonna die, but you just you know, it's common, just not yet horrible.

Yeah, a very horrifying concept, you know, but getting into kind of I guess where institutionalized cannibalism is is probably more popular and talked about.

Are the Four People of Papua New Guinea A lot of people when you mention, you know, cannibalism or ritualistic cannibalism, because these people were eating people because they wanted to.

They were actually it was part of their funeral practice.

Was you know, when somebody died, they would eat you or eat parts of you because they believe that by doing so, they could preserve your spirit and then your spirit would go on to live forever.

So grandma dies, I eat grandma, and then I die, my son eats me, and now it's it's you know, grandma, my mom me, we just continue forever and ever in that way kind of beautiful.

It's deeply honorific.

Yeah, it really is.

It really is so not all you know, terrible and awful.

Of course, you've got the Aztecs, who you know, going even further back, I mean, they had ritualistic cannibalism where they would you know, sacrifice a person and then kind of the higher ups amongst them would you know, consume of it.

And this was all seen as very positive, you know, as far as we know the sacrifices.

They were all for it.

They're like, hell yeah, eat me, and they're like fuck yeah, and then they off easted, you know, back in the day.

But what was interesting about the four people is that, you know, specifically in New Guinea, is that they were kind of where we were like, something's up with this, Like something's wrong, because you know, we kind of start to evolve a little bit and we kind of start to realize that there's something about our brains that kind of make up who we are and and not just that modern modern science kind of started taking hold as well, and so they started eating a lot of brains and that started making people well, very sick, and you know, and you know, they weren't dumb people.

They'd eaten tons of brains, so obviously they're very smart.

You know, they're like, we got to stop this, like something's wrong, we shouldn't do this, and you know, kind of eventually ruled it out over time.

There are people that still think that the New Guinea tribes do you still practice cannibalism?

Fortunately or fortunately I guess the idea of a cannibalistic tribe is not in modern day so much what people think it is.

It's not so much holding people down and cutting them open and feasting them right then there.

It's more of like, you know, they may make things out of your bones, you know, skull bowls and you know, knives or you know whatever, out of your bility, and then they they'll usually a lot of tribes they do do cremation.

They don't bury a lot of their people.

They do burn them because it makes more sense to do that.

It gets rid of the rotting corpse pretty quickly.

But they'll use like the cremated, like the cremanes and rituals and stuff like that.

And some of those rituals are like spreading the ashes all over themselves or even having a little taste of the ashes.

Did you back in the day ever watch my strange addiction.

I know exactly where you're going with this.

Yes, there is.

An episode that sticks out for me anyway.

Uh, it was season two, episode eight, all the way back in twenty eleven.

There was a woman who would eat her husband's cremaines like she was And listen, if you've never seen my strange addiction.

There were some episodes where where you just you could not take it seriously, Like there was there was a guy fucking a car and he brought the car to his dad to it.

Like.

There were some wild episodes.

My favorite was the person that was married to the amusement park ride and not even just that it was her, I think it was her.

It was their second husband like or whatever, like the second marriage to what He's right, and it's like, what was the first one?

I'll never forget it.

Oh my goodness.

Reality TV, like in the early teens was just wild.

It was out there.

It was.

But yeah, there was a paricular.

Episode she was she was so like stuck in her grief that it was all she could do.

Really.

She had lost something like forty or fifty pounds because she was pretty much exclusively eating her husband's cremaines.

Yeah, it was wild.

And she's like, she's like, and you know one thing, I'm just gonna eat them all and he's it's gonna be gone.

What the fuck?

I have a story.

I've never shared this publically, and I've only shared it with a very very very small group of people.

And I'm not going to name any names, because they honestly are very good people that were that was suffering through a very hard time.

But I was in a situation where somebody had their cremains of their parents with them and somehow accidentally the parent cremaines got knocked on the floor and they were all over the floor, and uh, I tasted them, not my choice.

It wasn't like I licked it.

It was like but like it was in the air like and it was of course.

Yeah.

I was like, oh my god, I just ate someone.

It was it was it felt it felt very wrong, and even talking about it, I'm just shocked that I'm admitting this to people.

But it happened, y'all, and you know, what can you do.

I mean, it was a total accidents.

But it didn't taste very good.

And I can't imagine that woman doing it by choice all the time.

Oh what's my point?

I mean, it's not you know, it's not like I tasted it and I was like, well, actually that's pretty delicious.

No, it was not good.

It tastes exactly what you think, like like ashes.

It's it's not good at all.

And it's not like smokiness, you know, like you might have barbecue and you got smoke.

No it's not like that, it's ashes.

But yeah, no, that is definitely a type of cannibalism.

A weird you know, but that's, like I said, that's more what modern day tribes.

The type of thing they might do.

They don't, they're not usually.

You know, there's tons of people that will like go off into one of these areas with one of these indigenous tribes and they'll go missing, and people assume that they got caught by cannibal tribe and eaten and blah blah blah.

No, that's it's that's a form of racism to think bad about these people.

And we saw that a lot in the seventies and andy in eighties with the with the you know, with the Mondo cannibal movies.

I don't know if you're familiar with any of them, but a lot of them are like I think probably one of the most popular one you'll hear about is Cannibal Holocaust, where you know, they actually went out and filmed with one of these South American tribes and it's portrayed.

It's actually, if you can stomach it, it's a very good movie.

You not being a gour you know, not being a gourd person, don't watch it.

But it's about like this group of filmmakers that go out to make a nature documentary about these tribes and they end up going missing and then eventually this was like blair Witch before there's blair Witch.

Eventually they find their footage and watch it.

Yeah, and they find out what I really happened to them.

And I won't spoil it for the people that haven't seen it, like, but no, if you can stand it, go watch it.

But it does feature real animal deaths.

They were working with a real South American tribe, so they would film them, you know, killing these animals and they would eat them.

But that's it's tough.

It's it is a tough watch.

And the director was actually held in Germany at one point because they were convinced that this was a real movie and these are real people.

Yeah, super cool, So check that out if you're into it.

But anyway, this was like a big thing at the time, was white people going to indigenous tribes in the jungle and being eaten by cannibals like that was the premise.

And it is very well, it's it's very racist.

I mean you know, it really is.

I mean, let's be real, A lot of times when they were making these films, these directors, they were doing it for shock value, you know, to make a quick buck.

And it costs practically fucking nothing to go film with these tribes because they don't care about money.

Oh that's yeah.

Yeah, And so it was very exploitative, and then of course made people afraid to go to these areas to care about these people at all in any type of capacity as far as like like preserving their lands and things like that go, because they're just monsters, right, they're just savages.

Well, savages is a very uh, you know what's that's a terrible term.

You shouldn't use it.

It is when you touch on a really good point here, which is human behavior that is considered acceptable, that exists in the context of the culture that you're in.

It does so, you know, us in twenty twenty five, you know, modern we're both in the US.

What we see as acceptable behavior shouldn't really play a role in any kind of judgment we would have on other people's cultures, right, Like we live in the bubble of our own culture, and so do other cultures.

Wow, And let's be real in twenty twenty five, we can't even like, we can't even zoom out our scope in our own country to accept different cultures.

Oh my god, I could scream.

Definitely can't take it outside of you Las, nothing else exists, just us, just us.

If you don't thinks like I do, then you're fucking wrong, you know, come on now, But no, you're absolutely right.

That is exactly So even if they were, you know, bashing people's skulls then and eating their hearts, I mean, it's not really up to us to decide if that's ethical or not because we just have absolutely no frame of mind to even begin to think of how that would be normalized to them because we don't live that life exactly exactly.

But it's hard to to kind of look through that lens because it is it's like a primal knee jerk reaction to be like, oh, holy shit, they're eating people.

Yeah, everybody has to think that's bad, right, and that's just that's not how culture works.

No, it's not.

No, it's it's definitely not.

So just wanted to kind of get that out of the way.

Now.

If you guys were excited to hear about some remote tribe that's out they're eating people.

As far as we know, there isn't one at least, we don't have any real We've got rumors, but there's no doc documentation of that happening anywhere in the world in modern day Nope.

So onto two other types of cannibalism.

Let's talk about survival cannibalism.

So I have a question for you as we approach this topic.

Yeah, you went to school in the nineties.

Were you in public school?

I was?

Yeah, me too.

Did the Oregon Trail game have a choke hold on your school the way it did on mine?

You know what's so funny you don't.

So this is we're not on video, right, this is an audio podcast.

Right, I'm an Oregon Trail T shirt right now.

It's shut up.

No, you're not.

We're getting dysentery.

Yeah sure, I am sure, I am.

Oh my gosh, So i'd say no, not, no impact at all, didn't.

Never, Oh my goodness.

So for anyone who doesn't know or didn't grow up with this, there was this eight bit side scroller called the Oregon Trail where you had basically it was a bunch of decisions that you had to make and it was sort of luck based, because it certainly wasn't skill based.

You could make all the right decisions and you could still die of dysentery or you could freeze to death, and it was it was such a difficult game, and it had these dark overtones of like, as you just said, whoop died of dysentery.

Yeah, but here I was as like a five or six year old in kindergarten, and I distinctly remember it was a floppy disk and you would get like your twenty minutes to go into one of the three computers in the computer lab and you would play this game.

Yeah up, and it was educational.

Oh it just it had such a choke hold on everyone in our age group that I talked to.

Everyone played that game, oh.

Yeah, oh yeah.

One of my one of my comfort YouTube videos that I like to watch because I don't have comfort.

I have very limited comfort shows, but I have comfort YouTubers.

But one of them, his name is Brutal Moves, and he plays the organ and not just Oregon Trail, Like he'll play like Oregon Trail adjacent games, so he'll play like the sequels and like there's there's all kinds of different ones that are just similar but different time periods.

Anyway, So I mean, even today it affects my life.

It's calming to me to watch him guy have dysentery.

Oh my gosh.

I'm like, yeah, the good days.

Anyway, I get where you're going with it.

Yep.

The reason, of course I ask is because before I started doing any research into this topic and started diving deep into, you know, what cannibalism is and what the different kinds are, the first thing and the loudest thing that popped into my mind was, oh, my god, the Donner Party.

Yeah, so.

I I learned a lot about the Donner Party this week.

You're welcome.

Oh my goodness.

So the Donner Party was actually the Donner Red wagon train incident of eighteen forty six.

Oh Donner Party party sounds way cooler.

Yeah, yeah, like they definitely.

The marketing was good to shorten that because it's just it's a mouthful.

So imagine you are going to California from Illinois in this wagon train.

It is the mid eighteen hundreds.

The guy who was leading them, George Donner, he was sixty five years old.

Holy shit, I didn't realize he was that old right, Oh my god, he's like ancient in that time.

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking that, because when I read this, I was like, there's there's no way.

Right.

They probably thought he was immortal.

This guy's a vampire.

We gotta take him.

Tode's gonna live forever, Oh my goodness.

But so they kind of started their trek from Illinois out to California.

They started kind of late.

They started in like mid April, which doesn't sound very late, but it really speaks to how long, you know, dragging a train of twenty three wagons really is going to take over some really rough terrain.

Oh yeah.

So they were running behind, and come May of that year, they had only made it to oh, I can't remember where they made it to, but they made it a little bit further west than Illinois, and they met up with another wagon train called the Hastings Train.

So their party grew to be eighty seven members and twenty three wagons.

Wow.

And the main guy who led the Hastings caravan, he said, hey, George, I know a shortcut.

Huh m hm.

So Hastings said he knew a way to cut one hundred and fifty to five hundred miles off the trip.

What that's like, that's huge for what they're doing.

It is it is they're already running late.

He says he has done it before.

Now just a spoiler alert, because you know we're a couple hundred years out from this.

The Hastings shortcut was not, in fact a shortcut.

It added one hundred and twenty five miles to the trip, and it went through some of the roughest terrain in the Sierra Nevada Pass.

What an asshole, right?

If I had a tenth of that confidence, I would be fucking unstoppable.

I mean, I'd eat him too.

It's I assume this is where this is going the first one.

So they they do, they take this Hastings shortcut, and come October the entire wagon train of eighty seven people becomes stranded.

October was the first snow that year.

They got snowed in and they couldn't go any further, so they were stuck in.

They actually did make it to California.

It's now called Donner Lake, but it was at the time known as Truckee Lake, and that's where they made camp for the winter.

Of the eighty seven people that were on the train by the time they were rescued the following spring, there were forty people that died.

Wow, yep, oh sorry, just a little side note.

There were eighty seven members originally twenty nine men, fifteen women, forty three children.

Oh my god, forty three.

So how many of them that died were children?

I actually could not find a figure on that, but from reading some of the survivor accounts, a lot of the children made it.

Good for them, Yeah, the horrors, but still good for them.

So there are a lot of accounts about what happened at Trucky Lake, and a lot of archaeological evidence as well of all the things that the dinner party did to try to avoid cannibalism.

They were sucking on raw hides, they were boiling the hooves of their pack animals into glue and drinking it.

They were even eating the dogs.

Hernandez, guys not having none of that.

Hastings does not get any slap, will slap for you.

The shocking thing about this, though, and maybe you are not going to be shocked by this, there is actually no evidence that anyone actually partook in cannibalism.

I did not know that.

It was.

Very surprising to me.

Now, of course we have to think about this, right, even with the story you just shared, who is going to raise their hand and say, yep, I ate him.

Well, true, yep, that's very true.

So of course, with all the stigma around this, there's not going to be a lot of people necessarily forthcoming.

But I think it's really telling how we know historically that there were these rumors of cannibalism.

So obviously we only know what the survivors can tell us and what the survivors say.

There was one survivor named George McGlashan.

He wrote a book in eighteen seventy nine that detailed the ordeal.

He mentions no one resorting to cannibalism.

One of the Donner daughters wrote a book in nineteen eleven.

She mentioned no cannibalism, and in fact, the only two people that really give accounts of cannibalism kind of just accused other people of it.

So one.

One was Margaret Breen, and she made a lot of very like Salem's witch trial accusations of oh, well, I saw missus so and so cooking up a leg and soup and serving it to the children.

Wow.

So she staunchly remained that her family would not partake in that.

And the other account was from four year old Georgia Donner.

So she was four years old when this is happening, and she is the only surviving Donner that claimed anyone ate human meat.

And she said she knew because the other children were telling that, you know, their mothers were cooking these soups with it and serving it to them and saying, just drink it, don't think about it, just eat it.

Wow.

Do you think that they were hiding it from each other while they were out there?

I mean, do you think maybe some of them were and they were just like the secret.

Well, see, I tried to put myself in this position right where you are trying to survive an absolutely horrible ordeal.

Absolutely, yeah, you would do anything to survive.

So I I don't know, drinking foot glue, that's what it is.

What's one more step?

What's one more step?

But I do I find it really fascinating that like they did not find evidence of like knife scrapes on bones, they didn't find expected evidence of cannibalism.

Again, hard to say, because I get it, it's not something that you're readily going to admit.

To I mean, yeah, well, and I mean you know they had a little bit of knowledge.

I mean, just boil that meat right off the bones and there's no evidence, you know, that's falling off the bone right there.

Make it nice and tender.

God, I can't even imagine.

I have to joke about it because it's it's really horrible.

I mean, you know, frankly, you know, but that is interesting that it is more of a just a room where I thought for sure, you know, maybe they had admitted to it, or you know, we knew for sure.

But yeah, same because again it's it's the first thing in my mind that I thought of.

I equate the Donner Party to cannibalism, right exactly.

I mean, so that is, but you know, it does fall in line.

But the one that I'm going to share, oh, they do have something in common.

So if you're ready, we can transition to that.

I am.

I want to talk about the the Andy's rugby team or the I'm sorry, the Uruguay rugby team and their survival and how they had to survive.

So in October of nineteen seventy to a charter plane carrying forty five passengers crashed into the Andes Mountains.

It was not good, but you know, honestly, in the very beginning, not a lot of people are killed on immediate impact somewhere.

But they had a good amount of people that survived.

And if you don't know anything about the Andes Mountains, it is twelve thousand feet elevation.

It is cold as the fuck.

There's no greenery whatsoever on these mountains.

You know those little mints, right, the little yeah, yeah, I mean they call them that, right, because it's cold in the Andy's Mountains, minty fresh, minty fresh, you know.

With the plane crashes, and they were in the middle of mother fucking nowhere and just really and you know, they looked around and you know, they would kind of see what there was and they're like, oh, there's nothing, but surely somebody will come looking for us.

Yeah, And they were correct.

People did come and look for them, but they did call off the search.

I think it was like, god, it was like twelve days or something into It wasn't very long into the search, but that was because while they were there, shortly after they had crash landed and they're trying to kind of you know, get themselves together a little bit.

They have a fucking avalanche.

No, ye, experience a fucking avalanche.

So the avalanche comes down and the snow covers most of the plane, most of them.

Yeah, and it just made it absolutely impossible to find them at all and of nowhere, so they just presumed, well, they all must be dead somewhere.

Who knows, you know, maybe the plane fell into water.

Who knows, they're dead.

Even if they did crash in the Andes, there's no way they're surviving because it's such a you know, a hell.

It's well, i'd say healthscape, but I suppose that's a hell froze over these mountains.

And a lot of these people are are very you know, they're they're very manly men, right, this is a rugby team, yeah, with their families and you know, other people were on the flight as well.

It wasn't just them, but a lot of them were them and you know, they were definitely built for survival.

But they didn't take this plane trip with like a picnic.

And mind you know, this was just supposed to be a very standard flight and they even much had absolutely nothing like you mentioned with the Donner.

You know, folks, they definitely resorted to alternative means to try to find some type of sustenance.

They resorted to eating the seats of the plane, Oh my god, leather off the seats, eating the foam filling inside of the seats, in an attempt to try to survive.

You know, of course they're water.

They had snow all around them.

That was like they're you know, that's where they were getting it from.

And then of course people were dying, and people had died at that point, and they all they're like, you know, uh, what do we do here?

You know, they kind of drug off the bodies to the side a little bit and kind of bury them in the snow.

Yeah, and they're like, well, you know, we don't really have a choice but to partake.

So they all kind of collectively came to that decision that that you know, in order for them to survive, they needed to go ahead and eat the flesh of the fallen and they did.

And you know, I really want to cover this and its entirety in its own episode because it is modern day again, this is the seventies, and it is such a truly fucking fantastic story.

You know, the fact that any of these people survived at all is absolutely amazing, And of course there's been two different movies now you can watch about it if you'd like to really get the scope of things that they went through.

But they were out there and they were trying to come up with some type of escape plan.

They didn't Their radio didn't work, so they weren't able to they try to fix it, they weren't able to, and they weren't really able to travel far to get to any type of civilization.

They didn't even know where civilization might even be.

They have a map, you know, to even begin to understand what would happen.

So, you know, they kind of picked two of the guys and they were like, look, you're going to have to go out there and you're going to have to find something or someone or we're not going to make it.

So what they would do kind of build up strength for those guys is well they had bigger portion sizes, you know, kind of training up, you know, in order to make this trek to who knows their own death maybe right in order to try to seek some type of help.

Otherwise each and everything one of them was going to die after over two months of them living like this two months, two months in a snow covered crashed plane in the Andy Mountains, eating each other.

The two men that they that they appointed to go seek some type of something made their trek outs and after I think their trek was like three days long.

And after a couple of days, they did come upon a couple of cowboys, you know, out riding their horse riding their horses, who you know, told them, Hey, we're out here, we need help.

And they did end up getting help.

Sixteen people ended up surviving out of the forty five.

Oh my god.

Now one of the women, she died like a week before day, this before this happened, because she absolutely refused to partake in the cannibalism.

Wouldn't do it.

She just starved to death.

Yeah, And I mean, you know, starving to death.

You whit and talk about that with the dinner part.

Let's talk about it for a second.

I mean, think of the hungriest you've ever been in your entire life, Like you honestly have no idea how torturous it is to go through something like starvation.

It's really horrible.

Your body starts to eat itself, so it starts pulling, you know, from every single thing that it can in order to have some type of nutrients.

It is extremely painful, you know, Like I said, you think of like the hunger pains or whatever.

You know, like you get to the point like you're so hungry where like and you start feel sick and and I'm too hungry.

Now I can't eat everything, but I'm going to except that moment never comes because your only option for eating everything is like you know, your wife.

Oh, Mike, And think about the mental side of it too, right, because she's she is starving and there are people around her, presumably cooking some kind of meat, like yeah, oh, a lot.

Of will power for her not to succumb to it.

Really, it did not that the other people are bad for doing something, but I just I can't, you know, But that's how much our instincts tell us don't do this.

So anyway, the similarities I was going to mention, you know, we were talking about how the Donner Party, we don't really know.

It didn't come out that that they can animalized people until later, like that that was something that eventually, I don't remember exactly how it ended up coming to light.

I just think that they were getting so much press at the time, you know, of course, because they just survived this really horrific event.

And I don't remember who exactly broke the story, but once once one of them dead, all of them kind of in a solid and a bit of solidarity, were like, yeah we did that, because I mean, they they knew, you know, this is very shameful, and they weren't going.

I don't think any of them were going to admit it first.

I think they would be in that to their grave.

And you know, eventually, like I said it, thankfully, you know, one person just couldn't stand it and they said, yeah, we were eating each other.

And then everybody else was like, I can't let you go down like that.

And there is like there's a certain unity in that, right because to your point earlier, it's shameful, of course, but also I think every single one of us gets it, Yeah, because the drive to survive it, like people do incredible feats of strength of uh oh my god, the words eluding me stamina, Like these incredible feats of stamina strength whatever.

This is up there right, getting over the fact that you were eating another human being who can't survive, so you can survive.

Yeah, it's well and you know, so people talked about this a lot.

I mean again, you're talking, you're not talking.

You know, the Donner Party back in the fucking what was that the eighteen hundreds.

Was for them?

Eighteen forties, oh, eighteen forties, okay, yep, you know we're talking about the nineteen seventies where people knew this story, People were talking about it, people were sharing it.

It was shared on TV.

We had TV, right, it was written all over the place.

Of course, everybody had opinions on what they thought about the cannibalism, and you know, frankly, fuck your goddamn opinion.

You know, youved it exactly, and you know, so there were people that clearly people were very disturbed by that little factory that came out.

But for the most part, I think the general community really made a conscious effort to make sure that these people could live with themselves because, you know, put yourself in that position.

Now you have to go back to normal everyday life and live with yourself knowing that you meet your best friends.

Yeah, you know, because again this is the majority of them are a sports team.

These are friends.

These aren't strangers, yeah, you know, and you know, so even like the Catholic Church like came like made an official announcement that God forgives them that It's oh wow, that they ate people because they had to.

They don't have choice, you know.

So it was it was a huge deal.

It was a really huge deal when the story came out.

Like I said, I think it'd be really cool to talk about the whole thing one day, but that would be, you know, because I just can't even.

I would just die.

I just laid in the snow, be like it's over.

They're going to try.

You can eat me.

I don't care.

It's whatever, you know.

That's the thing about it is that a lot of them, like because people were dying, like as this is happening, Like not all of them died on impact, clearly, and some people were just dropping off because they had injury, like one person got real bad gang green and oh yeah, and it was terrible, you know.

And and they would talk about it before they died.

They'd be like, I want you to eat me.

Yeah, give them permission, you know.

And so of course I don't know who knows that part could be completely made up, but that's what they all said.

And who am I to question them?

And what their experience was.

But yeah, you know, there's nothing again in that type of situation.

I think most of us kind of agree.

You don't have any other choice and you get to pass.

It's okay, it's not weird, yep.

So survival cannibalism, it's intense, you know, to have to make that decision.

So let's kind of pivot a little bit and talk about what everybody wants to hear about.

You guys all want to hear about the dirty cannibalism.

I get it.

People that have no excuse.

They are sexual deviance and they do it because they're just fucking sick.

Can I can I just kick this one off with a throwback?

Yeah?

Please?

Back in Victorian times it was very common too.

You know, we talked about it a little bit with medicinal cannibalism, like for like trying to heal ailments by eating you know, similar body parts.

If you have a heart problem, you eat a heart kind of thing.

But the one that pisses me off, and I straight up in my notes I called it fetish cannibalism.

Okay, the Victorian mummy eaters.

Yeah, talk, let's talk about this because this was a new one when you said the notes over, I never heard of that.

Oh okay.

So rich Victorian socialites used to have unwrapping parties of mummies stolen from Egypt imported into their countries, sometimes by catalog There were straight up catalogs that said, hey, by a sarcophagus, it comes with the mummy.

Wow.

And they would unwrap and eat mummified archaeological remains, destroying them in the process.

That's really discussed like that's that's that makes me sick, it's.

Rotten, Like I refuse to put that under the medicinal cannibalism part of my notes, because no, I'm sorry you are.

You are being a rich aristocrat and absolutely decimating someone's history.

And for what it reminds me of, it reminds me of the warden and human centipede.

Three.

Oh I again again listeners.

As we said at the top, I am not a gore fan.

I can't do the human centipede.

So I have no idea what you're talking about with the warden.

But so he's it's it takes place in a prison this time, and the warden of the prison wants to sow the prisoners together asked him mouth as punishment, right, and like that's the big kick of the movie.

It's it's a five hundred person centipede and Warton's just a sick fucking guy and he's got this jar of things that he eats and you find out later that they're clearsses.

Oh my god, that's gonna be a fun edit.

Sorry, because it's just it's because it's one of the it's like rich asshole thing, Like it's not like that's why he does it, and it's like it it reminds me of that.

Yep.

Yeah, no, I think that sums it up beautifully, rich asshole behavior.

Yeah that is.

I mean that's really gross.

Like you know, it's one thing to be gross and be cannibals, it's another thing to straight up eat a rotten fucking body.

Yep.

Like did he get sick?

Did he make him sick a lot?

It has to, right, I would think it has to.

But of course if that did happen, it happened behind closed doors.

I mean, dian Reel was a death sentence still at that time, you know, very true, very true.

So they would just eat them because like you said, for like like for like right, I hate my nose, so if I eat this mummy's nose, My nose will be pretty well.

That's how it started.

It started as like to treat ailments, but then it became this fetishized thing just for rich people of like, oh I want to I want to eat an ancient Egyptian and then I'll be whatever, strong, rich, brave?

What the fuck?

Yeah?

You know it's that would certainly make my Halloween parties year that much more exciting.

All people, did I tell you I have to RSVP?

No to that?

Oh you sure, you could become rich and brave's.

But of course there are more modern examples of this, like I don't know, criminal or dirty cannibalism.

Oh, just okay, I get what you're doing.

Way, I was like, what transition?

A transition?

I totally missed my mark there.

I'm just like, what are we transitioning to?

What next?

I bad?

No, that is super good.

Well, I just hold on.

So is that where like private collection mummies come from?

Is just because you could just buy them for I mean, was that like the sole market was for like these rich asshole parties and some of them would just keep them?

Yeah?

So straight up, you there are pictures of catalogs from back in the day and you could buy one off sarcopha guy straight up with the mummy still in it.

And that's how a lot of these private collections were built just by mail ordered catalogs, and some were you know, just to be kept as displayed pieces or people wanted a part of, you know, a history that wasn't their own.

But some of these people went the extra step and destroyed corpses for no other reason than to eat them.

I want to talk about like the body trade at some point, especially because it's it's still very much alive and will oh yeah in the dand age.

But yeah, I just I suppose we'll get into it at that point.

Wow wow we okay, Well, if you think it's bad, now just wait, it's gonna get worse and then better, then better.

Why don't we go ahead and switch gears.

Uh, let's talk about what are your notes?

Armand Mivus?

Oh yeah, armand Mivus is a very impactful cannibal, super interesting situation because he had a willing participant.

He did and we know the participant was willing because there's an entire video of the ordeal, the whole thing.

So Armandmivus was a very interesting character.

We did cover him on the podcast in its entirety a way earlier episode back in the day, but just to kind of give the recap.

He was an interesting, eccentric gentleman from Germany who had a fantasy of eating somebody.

He wanted to eat someone, and he found the perfect place to do that, which was Cannibal Cafe.

I think it was dot com, maybe it was dot org, dot gov.

Stop it straight short to the point.

Cafe.

It was Cannibal Cafe was a website where people could get on and essentially most of it I'd say like ninety nine percent of it, which just people role playing.

Okay, so you had the cannibals and then you had the cannibal ee.

You know, you had people that wanted to had a fantasy of eating people, and then you had people who wanted to be eaten, which is again that's also probably another episode and of itself very interesting fetish, not mine, but I don't think shame and you know, so he got on there and he put out an ad looking for, you know, a young fit man to kill and cannibalize and tons and it got like something crazy like over two hundred responses or something nuts like that.

I think it was like almost two hundred.

Oh my gosh.

And people were like, yeah, I'm here for it.

I'm here for what.

I'm here for it.

But they weren't serious, you know.

They were just like, oh yeah, talk dirty to me, and they just wanted to do like the role play thing.

But armand he was deadly serious about this.

So he was getting really you know, super fed up, super annoyed because people, you know, thought that he was just playing into the fantasy and he was not.

But eventually he did get a serious responder.

I mean, he would have people that would go as far as to be like, Okay, I'm going to show up on this date, you know, look for me.

He'd buy them tickets to come, you know, train tickets or whatever to come see him so they could do the thing, and then they they would ghost them.

But eventually he did find a willing participant.

And I can't remember the guy's name.

Oh my god.

He was burned.

Jurgen Brandis, thank you, thank you, burn Brandis.

He was like, yeah, I'll do it.

Fuck yeah, totally down.

And I think that they did have a lot of back and forth, you know, before on the early internet you know, before fully committing to it.

But I mean, you guys know where this is going.

Burn goes and he gets on his train and he shows up to Arman's house and they hung out for quite a while.

There's lots of drugs and you know, well Burne did, I don't.

I don't think Armand did.

But they drank and they talked and they hung out together and it was kind of a nice time.

But Burne was kind of getting impatient.

He's like, can we fucking hurry this up?

Like I'm trying to die here?

And Armand's like, sorry, I thought, you know, we'd like kiss or something for He's like, hurry up, you know, but they they would, uh, you know, have not too long of an encounter, maybe a couple, you know, two days tops alive.

Armand did film the whole thing because he was concerned about the legal potential repercussions from it.

In Germany, it's not illegal to eat someone, but it is illegal to kill someone, and so that's where things kind of got shaky.

And this case is a whole and we're going to get there in just a second.

So after a while, Burn's like, hey, what if you like cut my dick off and we ate it together.

Actually, his suggestion was, what if you bit my dick off and then we ate it together.

Oh yeah, he wanted to bite it off, and so Armond tried to bite it off, and he was unsuccessful.

Dix are hard if you didn't know, if you've never seen one or touched one or played with one, especially when they're in your mouth, they're usually hard or at least halfway there, right, So we had a really difficult time biting through it.

So at that point he's like, just cut it off, it's fine.

So we did.

He cuts it off and he starts frying it up in a pan to cook for each other.

But he burnt it.

Oh that is the part that like, you you try to take this seriously, but like he was frying it up with butter and garlic and armand fucking burnt it.

Yeah, burned, he burnt burned.

Uh that's horrible.

But you know what, he would love that joke because he wanted it.

He would appreciate that.

Listen.

So they, you know, they still tried to eat it, but it just wasn't It was not good.

They didn't have a good time.

So they were like, well, this didn't go well, you know whatever, and Brandis is like, well, I guess you know, take him to the bathtub.

I'll go bleed to death.

And he's like, yeah, cool, So he did.

I took him to the to the bathtub and let him hang out in there while he's doing drugs and or he's fucked up on his drugs and he's bleed to death.

And armand sat and read the entirety of a Star Trek novel.

That's also detail that it's a Star Trek novel.

But because that's come on, look at him.

He's definitely a treky.

He's got treky energy all the time.

Can I can I tell you something horrible?

Yeah, I had never seen a picture of armand Maives before doing this research.

Like I'd heard about him, never saw a picture.

He looks kind of like one of my coworkers.

Now I can't unsee it.

That's just my little sidebar of Now, like this cannibalism story is just looking at me in the face at eight a m.

Every single morning for the foreseeable future.

You should invite him to your house for a weenie roast.

Don't burn it.

I know what I'm bringing to the next work Patla.

You know, he's just he looks just so nerdy and normal, like yes, because you think like German, you think of like big burly scary man and like no, he's like like I could fight him, right like you could well, which is probably why he needed a willing participant, right.

He wouldn't fight nobody to kill.

And that's the thing.

And I'm sure we'll get into this in a bit, but he actually had another part diticipant make it as far as coming to his home and laying down on the table where like he wanted to butcher this person, and the guy said like, oh, I don't feel so good?

Can I go?

And you let him go but totally respects consent.

Yeah.

How many men do you know that can do that?

Not a lot, you know, and they're not Cannibal.

So I think, I hope.

Hard to say after this episode, but no, he's.

Genuinely like a like he's a good dude.

It's weird to say that, but he is.

And so so anyway, so Brandon, he bleeds to death eventually, and Mavus takes his body, takes him into the basement where he prepares him and then stores his meat.

You know, and various you know, in his little freezer or whatever and eats it, proceeds to eat it over the course of the next year.

They don't love them.

Yeah, he So this is like also just fun trivia, like this is one of those pieces of lost media, because the courtroom definitely had to watch all of that video.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, so it definitely exists if you are that type of person.

You can't find the full video, but you can find some stills from that video of brandis and various sports and pieces.

So that's a little fun fact for you.

Don't go looking for it if you aren't prepared, guys, Like, I'm so fucking serious when it comes to gore stuff, like, do not look for it if you can't, but if you're interested, it is out there.

So anyway, after he eats all of his body, he is well, he's hungry again.

He's looking for his next meal.

So he jumps back on his own reliable cannibal cafe and he's looking for people.

And in his search of looking for people again, he starts disclosing to people that he's already done this before and here's how it went.

And you know, he wants to make it very clear that he is not in the business of harming somebody.

He wants a willing participants and so he you know, this freaks people out because they're like, oh, yeah, you've done it before.

Yeah, I've been eaten before.

And he's like no, like really, I have a video and they're like wait serious.

And the Internet did the right thing this time, and they actually reported him to local authorities, who you know, he pretty much can i mean, confessed right away.

He's like, yeah, the guy, he wanted it.

Here's our chat logs, here's the video here.

I mean, I did not hurt him in any way, shape or form, aside from when I tried to bite his stick off and it didn't work.

But he wanted that too, you know, and they probably I didn't know what to make of this situation.

I mean, it was really the first, you know, real case of something like this happening in the world.

You know, what do you do when the person is a willing participant in their own death.

Who's accountable for that?

Surely somebody has to be, you know.

And then and then he ate the fucking guy And that's not normal.

It's not illegal, but it's not right, you know, so they Yeah, I mean, they really had no clue, you know, how to handle the situation.

But he did.

He went through trial and he was not found guilty of murder the first time.

Actually, his first sentence was pretty light.

Yeah, I don't remember what it was.

It was manslaughter and he was given eight and a half years and.

That's pretty good, like for killing for eating someone.

He didn't kill anybody, but he did he did eat someone.

For consensual cannibalism, for all intents and purposes.

I mean, that's that's not bad.

But you know, he decided to fight it because again it was very much one hundred percent consensual, and when he went to go fight it again, well he pushed it too far.

And they still didn't find him guilty of murder, did they.

I think it was still like manslaughter slatters and then and then they gave him ended up giving him life in prison at that point, yep.

And I don't know if they just if they pushed his luck.

I am not really sure.

I can't justify that in my mind.

I'm not saying that like it's totally cool what he did, because it's still icky and I have all the ick, but I don't think it deserves a life in prison.

I keep putting myself like in the jury of a case like this, and I would have such a hard time where there is clear not only like written consent, but video of the consent that like, yeah, I want.

This, and like it's weird and it's not for me, but like there's just I mean, where's where's the fault?

Yeah, no, I'm with you.

I struggle with this one because who am I to judge what someone else wants.

Nobody's gonna bat and eye if I say, oh, I want to be cremated when I.

Die, Well that's true.

Yeah, but some people would be like mortified by that thought.

Yep, you know, so like like you were saying, culturally, you know, I can't really sometimes it's just not our business.

And this one I would be like, yeah, this is not my business.

You know, it's just let me see the video.

We'll decide then.

And then you know, after watching, you know, watching the whole thing, right, because you'd look for signs.

If there was any sign in all that that man wanted out at any point in time, then it's like, okay, but there wasn't according to everybody.

I mean, it's just the fact that it was real fucking weird.

So they tried him for life or I'm sorry, charged him and put him, put him in prison for life.

And that man is a vegetarian now he is?

He sure is.

That's not like a joke or 'sb being funny, like that's real.

Nope, he became a vegetarian in prison.

I don't you know it, But to me, it's like it's like he did it because he can't see in the thought of animals being hurt, because he's just such a nice fucking guy.

I don't know if that's why, but like he is super nice.

Yeah, I don't.

I just struggle with this one again because you do.

You look at a picture and he's just this star trek nerd.

He's a fucking trekky.

He's your awkward uncle that never got married.

Yes, you know, he's just weird.

He's into some weird shit.

But like, I mean, I don't know he should be I think he should be out.

But that's me.

He's still alive.

I think I'm pretty sure he's still alive.

I mean, it would make sense with the time.

Plus now he's a vegetarian, he's got a good heart, he's low cholesterol.

Super healthy.

Gosh.

Well, let's go a little darker, a little deeper.

We'll talk a little bit about Jeffrey Dahmer, because I don't think you can talk about cannibalism without Dahmer.

Yeah, you know, he's probably one of the most cannibals in the entire world.

I'm not gonna spend too too much time on him.

I think we all know who Dahmer is.

Jeffrey Dahmer killed seventeen men and boys and did really horrific things to their body, including but not limited to, cannibalism, necrophilia, attempted zombie experiments.

He would post their bodies in various fucked up ways and take horrible Pollard pictures of them.

He was trying to make an altar out of the skulls of the people that had killed I was, oh, real fucking weird, real fucking weird.

Lots of rumors about Dahmer.

There's this one documentary that I watched on him, and it's like from the perspective of the neighbors from his famous uh you know, not hotel but apartment that he lived at, and yeah, yeah, they're talking about how like Dahmer would like come by and he'd be like, oh, I made everybody some sandwiches, and they right, and in hindsight, they're like it did tastes weird.

But there was never he never admitted defeat.

He was actually very open about who he was why he did it after his arrest, which was I mean horrific what he did, but very important that he was as open about the situation as he was because it really helped us kind of understand people like him and of course try to get ahead of it, you know.

Now, yeah, in the future, the.

Future, going forward, we don't need any more Dahmers in the world.

You know, when he talked about consuming their bodies, I mean one of the one of his issues.

He has, like really extreme abandonment issues and like rejection issues, and that was kind of his whole motive behind all of it, alongside closeted homosexuality, you know, and yeah, and then of course raging alcoholism.

He had a lot of issues.

But you know, the biggest reason why he he did what he did was as a way to kind of keep them with him forever.

So I don't know, I don't think that he was like making up full meals and he's like it's delicious, you know, and sitting down and really hanging out with it.

But you know, he but he did it, like I said, as a way to to kind of spiritually, you know, never be rejected by them, always have them forever and ever in his body.

I did not know that about about Well, he keep their corpses for a very for a pretty long time.

And I mean he would like cuddle with them and stuff.

I mean he had sex with them too, and that's real gross, but yeah, he would like cuddle up with them, and like I said, he take he would pose them in weird positions and take pictures like he had.

Like That's how the cops found out about him is because they found his polaroids.

Oh my god.

Well, I mean, and he was in the middle of trying to kill some guy and he escaped, so he got the police know that whole thing.

But really, I mean, but then they go into search his apartment and I mean, there was a dead body right in his bedroom, like I believe it was in his bed, but they found his polaroids and they're like, what the fuck this place smells terrible.

There's a fucking body in here.

And then they started finding like they found like various body parts in the fridge and all the skulls and it was just some mess.

It was wow dark.

But yeah, no, he that's that's why he did it.

He had extreme rejection and abandonment problems, which stemmed from his parents being not very present parents.

Frankly, so you know, pay attention to your kids.

Yeah, yes, it's important.

I'm gonna take it one step for a little bit darker.

This is as dark as it's gonna get it that this is the fucking trenches of cannibalism.

And then we're gonna start going back to the fun stories, as I suppose, because like I said, Dahmer didn't do it because he just simply liked the taste of human flesh.

But there is a cannibal that did do it because he liked the way it tasted so much.

And that's Albert Fish.

Yes, now this man is like I mean, if you think Hitler's bad, read about Albert Fish, Like, oh my gosh, awful, fucking terrible.

Albert Fish was an extreme sexual deviant.

He pretty much engaged in every single form of sexual deviancy that you can think of.

I think that probably one of The most notable things that people know him for are the amounts of pins that he had inside of his groin, where he would have other people, sometimes his own kids, stick these pins in his groin, like deep into the skin and they just disappear.

Oh, and they were there and to his death.

Yeah, there's actually a rumor, and it is just a rumor that he was he was put to death by electric chair.

They said that there was a malfunction because of the pens, and it's growin that didn't happen.

I wish it did, though he deserves it, you know, he deserved but honestly, he'd probably like it.

I mean, but he was when he was put to death, he was excited to get the electric chair.

Oh wow.

He was like, this is going to be the bee's knees, buddy.

He didn't say that, but it'd be cooler if he did, but he pretty much did.

He was like, this is like the ultimate pleasure.

Like that was like his last words.

He's like, this is thanks, guys, thank you really genuinely.

Oh my gosh.

Because he's just really a terrible person.

He would have his children beat him and electrocute him with cattle prods and I mean all kinds of terrible stuff, and not just this children that were like sometimes you know, instances of him having different partners, different young prostitutes that he would have, you know, engage in these acts with them and stuff.

But his worst offenses of all, the absolute one of the sickest things that you'll ever read in your entire life, is a letter that he wrote to the family of one of his victims.

So we don't really know how many children Albert Fish killed, but he killed children, and he killed children, as he stated, specifically to cook and eat them.

He was a very unsuspecting person at the time that he was caught.

He was just a very frail man, you know, and just you know, super quiet, actually super charismatic at times.

But you know, he was caught because he ended up abducting four year old Grace Bud from her family home.

He posed as a farmer and actually showed up to the home in an attempt to hire their son.

They had like a like a teenage son.

And although I don't think he was going to eat the sun, I think that he probably was going to attempt to solicit him for sex.

A lot of a lot of his sexual partners were young male prostitutes, you know, child prostitutes basically.

But he shows up and their four year old daughter is there, and he took a fancy to her and decided that he was going to eat her, and so he does.

He takes her, you know, He's like, hey, I've got this birthday party for my granddaughter or whatever.

Maybe your daughter could come with me.

And they're like, yeah, that's fine.

No, and she left and they never saw him again.

And then I think it was like a year later, he writes this horrific letter that explains exactly what he did to little Grace.

You know, he explains how he cut her up, how he roasted her buttocks, how he prepped it, and how great and amazing and grand and delicious it was.

But he did say he did not rape her.

He gave them that reassurance.

Oh, it was horrific, And that's not the worst part of it all.

What's really interesting, I'm going to segue for a second and talk about one big part of the letter that he writes about.

Yea, he writes about this old friend that he has who was I believe he was in The friend was allegedly in the Navy and it's spent a lot of time in China.

And he says that this friend, and he does mention a name, he gives him Captain something something, And he says that this friend in the navy while he was stationed in China.

China at the time, was going through such a severe famine that they were eating kids, and that they were like pulling kids off the street, and like it was so wildly like widely accepted that you could walk into a butcher shop and pick your cut off of a dead child's body.

What.

Yeah, And he said that from this, the sailor friend, the captain friend, he got a taste for children.

And then the sailor friend comes back home and he can't stop thinking about how delicious that human meat was, and so he himself abducts two young boys, holds them captive in his closet, fattens them up, but also beats them daily to tenderize the meat goode, because the buttocks is the best part, and then eventually cooks and eats both of them.

So for a long time, into my foray and to true crime and all that stuff, I couldn't believe this other story that he was told the grace Bud letter is fucking horrific, and there is a saving grace.

The saving grace is that her parents couldn't read think fucking much.

Oh that's good, but.

You know, who's this captain sailor friend?

What the fuck is that story where they're really kids just being eaten in China?

Like?

Is that real?

So I did a bunch of digging into it, and I could not find any historical evidence of anything said in that letter.

And so the reality is that they're probably they're probably, I mean, there have been really bad famines in China.

Albert Fish was a reader.

He liked to read a lot, and there have been historical famines where they have eaten children, but not anytime kind of you know, in that time period.

So it could have been something that he was exposed to at one point, and that story of him abducting the two boys, it was probably him.

Yeah, and you know they think that he may have killed upwards of like two hundred children.

And oh, so remind me what time period was this again?

This was I believe early nineteen hundreds.

I oh, okay, a.

Computer in my pocket here, and I'm just stalling for time while I google this.

So this was.

He was born in eighteen seventy.

He died in nineteen thirty six.

Okay, yeah, so that time period modern enough but not not too modern.

Thank god.

This guy is far and away from us, yes, but yeah, no, really really horrific.

And again his whole obsession, well, he did have again a streak of horrific sexual deviancy, and probably some of the cannibalism was into that.

He seemed to genuinely enjoy the way it tastes.

Wow, and it's just fucking awful.

He was only ever convicted of two murders, Grace and another little boy that he you can his testimony, he describes that horrific detail.

He likes his details.

It is fucking jarring.

So there are definitely people out there who, you know, it seems to be they they develop a taste and they like it.

You know, that's where that is so ready to ready to start bringing it back upwards.

Let's go to the your God, Yes, let's go back.

Up the hill, but let's go up the little hill this time.

All right.

I don't know how to say his name, and I could have googled it, but I didn't.

But he's Japanese.

I'm gonna say it's it's Si Sagowa.

I think it's Si Asi Saga.

I'm gonna call him Saga from here forward.

That sounds good.

I yeah, I believe that.

Saga is the only cannibal celebrity that we seem to have.

Ever had, Like uh, celebrity.

A celebrity is the can do celebrity.

Plagued by his own hatred for himself, Sagowa had experienced cannibalistic fantasies ever since he was a small child.

And when I say small child, I do mean small.

Sagawa grew up to only be a four foot nine man.

Oh, very small, very skinny, very meek.

He was born premature, very premature, and so that kind of of course doneed his growth.

I had a whole bunch of other physical issues as a small child, which contributed to his lack of confidence in his social situations.

But when he was very young, he says that, you know, he spotted one of the boys in the classroom, and he spotted his thigh and he thought that looks delicious.

Oh but he's not gay.

He's not gay.

As a matter of fact, he ended up developing a fetish for Western women, specifically tall Western women later on in life, and that was something that he kind of ran with.

He often had fantasies of cannibalizing these women.

He would have plans as a matter of fact, of attempting to you know, like at one point he broke into a woman's home and was going to just kind of cut a piece off of her body and then take it with.

Him, just like cut and run.

Yeah, to cut and run.

Yeah, just caught off a titty and run.

But he chickened out.

He was too afraid.

He was though.

At one point he attempted to rape a woman, or he did rape woman.

I can't remember which one.

It doesn't matter because his wealthy father made sure that he got off scott free.

So we did have a rape charge before what we're about to get into there it is, and his daddy bailed him out of it.

I Eventually he moves to France.

He's from Japan.

Eventually he moves to France and he attends school there and meets one of his classmates, Renee Heartevelts, and he invited Renee Hartevelt to his apartment for dinner.

He ends up, she sits to his desk and she is reading from a book of poetry at his desk, and he shoots her in the back of the head.

Oh, Renee.

Just totally had no clue because he was probably so unimposing.

Yep, you know you can't be threatened.

Right, You just would not even think, you know, And he took the easy way out.

He says that he initially had passed out from the shock of actually killing her, and then it was kind of the idea that you've made it this far, you have to finish this.

That kind of aroused him and woke him up.

When I say aroused, not sexually, which there was anyway.

We're getting there.

So he wakes up, he has a romp with the corpse.

He rapes her corpse and then proceeds to start trying to take bites out of her skin directly.

But he was he learned the arm in way.

He couldn't do that.

It wasn't a penis.

But it turns out skin is also hard and chewy.

It's rather difficult to bite into human skin, which is good for us, right.

Honestly, it makes Mike Tyson a little bit more impressive.

Super tough right through cartilage, I mean, but it was his jaw was sore after that, I'm sure.

So he had to leave for a little bit.

He had to go get some knives.

He didn't really own any, and he came back and he started cutting into different parts of her body and sampling them, some cooked, some not cooked.

I'm sorry he didn't own any knives.

No, like, there's not being prepared, but then there's not being prepared.

I don't think he honestly thought he had it in him to go through with this.

Oh you know what, that makes sense because I mean the passing out and stuff.

He was like, oh shit, I can do it this.

Wow, here we are better go get some knives.

So he ends up taking pieces from her breast, her face, her buttocks, her feet, her thighs, and her neck.

He did, he did cut off her clitterus and he swallowed it whole.

Now once, one story with this I can handle.

But this is coming up twice.

Now, twice in a night.

Yeah lucky, it's your lucky day.

For anybody that claims that they can't find it.

It is apparently in the stomach of men who are too Oh my god, what's that word where you're really spoiled?

We'll just say that.

But there is a word affluence when you're really affluent.

Uh, like man in the canoe just goes straight to the stomach.

They're all there a gosh.

Well anyway, so you know, he he took the parts of her that he wanted to eat, and he did.

He ate them, and then cut up the rest of her and you know, opted to he saved some pieces, of course for later when he had them on She said, two am and uh.

He split her body up, the remains of it into two different suitcases, and then attempted to go take those suitcases and dump them at a local park.

And again he's four foot nine with two big old suitcases struggling with them with the woman who was I think she was I think she was five nine, Like yeah, And so of course they got fucking caught Tomass, and he deserves it, you know.

So it gets caught right away.

You know.

They take them and arrest them, and they put them in French prison, and by the French authorities, they found that he was legally insane, He was not legally comp to stand trial.

He was guilty by reason of insanity, so they went ahead and institutionalized him from there, and he spent about two years in the French mental institution.

When France decided to deport his ass back to his own country of Japan, They're like, you can't be here, and they sent him back to Japan.

And when they did that and he was at the Japanese mental institution, well, they found that he was actually not insane, he was mentally competent, and he had just done this due too well guess what, extreme sexual deviancy.

No shit.

But here's where he got lucky.

Because the French had deemed him legally insane.

Whenever they were done with his trial, they sealed his records, could not release them to the Japanese authorities, so they couldn't hold him.

So, my god, just five years after the murder and consumption of Renee, Sagoa was a free man in nineteen eighty six.

So he gets out of prison and he is an instant celebrity.

Everybody wants him for everything.

They want to interview him for their newspaper, they want to get him on the radio, they want to get him on the television.

He everybody and anybody wants to get a piece of Sagoa, okay, and they want to talk to him.

And he ended up doing.

I mean a ton, a ton of appearances.

I mean, this was ended up being his job because nobody else, you know, he couldn't really work anywhere else.

He did try eventually, but they were like fuck no.

But he ended up writing a ton of books, a ton of books.

He ends up writing a book on like another Japanese serial killer at one point in time, and oh, he writes his own book about his own experiences, and you know what's you know, why he did it and what it was about he wrote?

He wrote restaurant reviews for Japanese publication called spaw Stop stop it No, that's real.

That's real.

He started in a porn pornography inspired by his crime.

Stop It's real.

And you know, all the.

While, for the most part, like again, he can't hold a regular job.

And now, you know, how could he write.

I mean, listen, I get it, I get it.

He should be six feet under.

I completely understand where you guys are coming from.

But he's not.

And he's out in society.

And what the fuck is this guy supposed to do?

Right, He's got to do something, and he probably enjoyed it.

Let's be real, you know, he's probably all about that life of course, but he couldn't work anywhere else.

So you know, between all of those appearances and all of those things that he's doing and all that porn he's making, you know, he's also living off the of of daddy's money, yep, because he's got a wealthy father.

Well, his dad passes away in two thousand and five, and so his gravy train is is kind of gone.

He did get you know, some money from the death, but I don't think it was nearly as much as he expected it to be, and he ended up having to go on welfare.

He really became the lowest of the low because you know, eventually, you know, you're like, at first, you're like, yeah, tell us about that time that you ate that girl, and and he's like, oh, here's my story, and you're like fuck yeah.

And then eventually it gets to the point to where you know, people are like, oh, the story about the where you ate the girl.

You know, they're bored.

Yeah.

So anyway, he ends up dying, and but that is you know, pretty much the story of the uh, the celebrity cannibal.

Can I can I give you my hot take please?

I feel like this story of Sagawa is part of the reason my this got such a bad retrial.

Yes, I agree with you, you're rights.

Right, He's like, I'm sorry, he shot a woman in the back of the.

Head, killed someone, right, he's an asshole.

Oh, I didn't even mention he took pictures, so you know how like like arman like he did like a video or whatever.

But it wasn't like for fun.

It was more for like documentation to that, like you know, for your ass kind of right.

Soakowa took photos of him during the process of eating her body.

There's a fucking photo of him stack like like he's squatting completely naked and he's got a fork in one hand and a knife and the other with a big smile on his fucking face.

Oh what a mental picture.

Oh disgusting, And and he gets to walk free.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I just all I can think after putting these two stories together, is that was the reason they were like, now we got to put him away.

I could see that.

Yeah, I could see that.

Well, Germany doesn't want to be known for the place that lets the cannibal.

Room free and the celebrity cannibal.

They enough heat, we can't have the scandal here, they're like not even beginning to touch that, like you see, it's working for that guy.

No way, No, I agree with you.

I mean they were definitely roughly you know, well his was before Armand's story, So yeah, I think that that certainly could be, you know, an influence there, you know, because people are just like, yeah, that's fucking We're not doing that.

We're not having him given restaurant reviews in Germany.

You know, he's not gonna reviewer Schnitzel.

It's like the Gordon Ramsey meme.

It's fucking raw.

Looks a good thing, that's terrible, that's good, It's okay.

Like I said, this is the up swing.

We're on the up swing.

Yes, let's talk about more consensual cannibalism.

Oh so, this story comes from a Reddit user that goes by the name of incredibly Shiny short all one word.

Fabulous, fabulous, strong start and you can.

Folks at hon't fall along, Pull up Reddit, Google or type in an incredibly Shiny Shart you'll find him.

He shares the story about how I believe it was twenty fifteen.

He was in a really bad motorcycle accident, super super debilitating, where he all but mangled one of his legs and you know, they had tried to make it work again and it wouldn't work.

Just yeah, So the doctors gave me the option.

They're like, look, we can amputate it.

It's pretty much useless.

And he's like, okay, but can I keep it?

And they were like.

Yes and no.

So here's the thing about like your body parts from the hospital.

You're not supposed to be able to keep them.

Really, you're not.

It is I mean, it's biohazardous waste, right, we don't know what you're going to do with them.

You probably exactly for this guy, you know, but most of them it's not standard for you to keep them.

However, you can fight that and you can get so there's like different like religious exemptions where like you could like check them out.

So like if you get something like your leg amputated and you wanted it to be buried with you, I mean, you can have it preserved to where you know, you have that option, or you can get it cremated so that way, when the rest of your body gets cremated, you can you know, it can all be together.

Yeah that may okay, Yeah, so those parts.

You know, can can ultimately get released to you.

But for the most part, they're not just like, yeah, I'm not just gonna give you your uterus just because you want it, like, which I think is fucking rude.

It's mine.

That's what kind of shocks me.

It just it feels like one of those things where inherently like that belongs to you, So why.

The fuck not right, it's not it's not yours.

Yeah, it's fucked up, but uh, you know, anyway, he fought the good fight and he got to basically keep his amputated leg.

You know.

He said that at first he had hit a million ideas.

You really wanted to taxi dermy it, you know, and he said it be cool to use it as like a door stop or like a lamp.

Oh my god.

But he couldn't find a taxidermis that will do it.

Like, none of them were down for that.

Let me tell you, if anybody's ever in this situation, I know some taxidermists that would love to do that, So just hit me up.

We'll find the right person for you.

But they wouldn't.

They were like, oh no, no, absolutely not.

He thought about having it freeze dried, but you know, he found out that having it freeze DRIEDE was like way too.

It was like super expensive.

Oh so he's like wow, okay, and then he was like, well, I could have it plaster casted, which I think he did have it plaster casted, but you know, he has the hollow bit, not the not the actual leg itself.

Yeah, but then it kind of you know, he was kind of sitting with this group of friends and he's like, you know, they were kind of playing with it one day because they said it was frozen, right.

They kept it in a freezer at the hospital.

He gets it, he keeps sitting his freezer, but he takes it out and they're kind of looking at it.

He said it was kind of a first, it was kind of gross.

It was like covered like iodine and blood and oh yeah, like clean it up.

But he said, you don't have to clean it up.

Hi and his friends were just kind of playing around with it.

He said it felt kind of weird, you know, because it's like this is mine, but it you know what, when you're holding it and stuff, it's not like you check out that it's a real leg.

Yeah, but he just was sitting around with friends and he said, what if.

We ate it now yeah, And his friends were like, dude, that's.

Fucked up, and he's like, no, but really, guys like why not, Like we can?

It's mine right, like, let's try it.

And then he so he said that this actually ended up being like a molding of two different friend groups, because he went he had two different friend groups and the first one was kind of where where the idea began, and he went ast his other friend group.

He's like, hey, would you guys you want to like eat some of my leg and they're like, okay, sure, yeah, you know, he said, in your friend groups, everybody kind of has that conversation of like, would you try it?

If you could ethically try it, would you try it?

And everybody not everybody, but some people are like, well fuck, yeah, I try it.

I'm in that camp if I could ethically eat, you know, eat a human body.

But I would try it.

I would, really I would.

It would feel wrong and weird and dirty.

But if you take out like the murder or you know, any of the gruesomeness to it, why not why not try it?

Huh?

I mean I'm curious.

I mean I guess my thing.

I can see the allure of like wanting to try something that realistically you are never going to get the opportunity to ever try for totally forbidden, totally get that.

You know, so you wonder.

I mean you're like, well, what does it taste like?

People kill people to do this?

It must be do you think about I would though, I mean honestly, yeah, I'd check that shut out.

I'd be like, okay, I wouldn't be like I would when I find if I got to the plate and it's in front of me, like, I'm I might get cold, for I might get Yeah.

That one was totally on accident, but that's good.

It was.

You know, I might be like I have a change of heart, you know, like can I really do this?

It's like bungee jumping?

You know, like in my mind, I could be like, yeah, I could do that, but I think if I got to the bridge, I'd freeze.

Yep, I'm like nah, fuck this.

You know.

For some people to hard know and for others they're like maybe.

So, you know, he was kind of like I just decided to kind of call my friend group on that, like here's an opportunity, let's do it.

He said.

One of his friends was a chef.

They kind of discussed what this would look like, how are they going to prepare it?

Right?

What are they are they going to do with it?

And they decided to come up with the idea to make it into like a taco meat and put it into.

Tacos gourmet foot tacos.

Gourmet foot tacos.

And he so he does.

He ended up having him and ten of his friends.

The chef friend he took the meat and he prepared it so he didn't take it.

So he himself Shart, I'll call him for sure, shiny Shart, incredibly shiny Shart.

He took just like a chunk of muscle out of the top of the leg itself and then like put that into like as a block bag, and then like gave that to his chef friends.

Yeah, and they cook it up and they they have a nice I mean, they had a super nice meal.

Otherwise, like they had a whole you know, just just the whole nine right, the fancy wine, and they made a big to do and they all sat around the table and then ate him and he explains the event like you know, one person spit it out, ye, and you know, he talks about how they're making jokes, like his joke was like, wow, this is probably the only time I'll ever be inside of ten of my friends at once, you know, he said later, you know, maybe like the next day or whatever, somebody called him.

He was like, dude, I just shut you out.

He said, it was just it was you know, it was it was kind of you know, morbid, but it was fine.

And and you know, as far as the taste goes, I mean, he says that, you know, a lot of people describe it as like poor clike, and he said he did not get that at all.

He said it was very much like a very very gamey meat.

It was a lot like venison.

Oh yeah, said it was very chewy, so, you know, he said it wasn't too bad.

And then he had the rest of the leg cremated, which he still has the remains of and he has this plaster cast of the leg and and and his leg in him forever.

He actually said that this was a super healing, uh you know, emotionally healing process for him, because he really struggled with the fact of having his leg amputated.

Yeah, but this was kind of closure for him to you know, make amends with that and he lives a really wonderful life.

No, you guys, and listen, here's the best part.

He's still super active on Reddit and he's like really into plants.

Yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, I love it.

And so if you go to his Reddit page, you can go see the types of things that he posts, and and that whole post is available.

There are some very gruesome pictures that accompany it.

And this is how you know it's real, because there there were pictures the whole step of the way from the amputated leg to it being neat in a taco.

But you know, you have to dig to find that one if you go.

So, like, there's a feature on Reddit where you can go look at people's comments and like what they comment on other people's posts, And so if you go and look, every once in a great while, he will pop up and say some stuff, and people that know no, like he's a Reddit legend.

You know, people will tag him and stuff like on like cannibal posts and things like that.

They'll be like, you know, hey, do you have any insight to this?

And he'll come and he'll comment and he'll talk all about it.

I mean, it seems like a super nice guy.

Oh my gosh.

You know it's interesting that you bring up like how healing it was for him because you said he lost his leg in a motorcycle accident.

Correct, Yeah, it was.

There is a piece of writing called Song of the Sausage Creature.

I don't know who I love, whatever this say is so far.

If you or if anyone you know rides motorcycles, it's it's one of these pieces I can't recommend reading enough.

It's it's like a piece of short work.

I don't know, maybe a couple of pages, but it just describes this lurking sausage creature that is like when you do fall off your bike and you know your your shoulder or your leg looks like ground meat because you're getting torn up by the road.

And that's all I could think of when you started saying this, because there is there's like so much trauma in motorcycle accidents, specifically so and so.

I don't know.

You describe him as like a plant dad, and he seems so nice like him, it does.

It seems like this really strange bonding and healing experience.

And we go back to that whole like contextual culture thing of if this is what Shart needed to do, and his friends wanted to support him in that.

Can you fault it?

Yeah, good for him.

I want to get him on the show, and I think I think he might do it because he's just such a nice I mean, I think he would think so he did.

You know, people had questions like, why didn't you like because this is when he made it public on something like Reddit.

It had been a couple of years, so it wasn't like Reddit followed the journey of him cooking up.

It's not like they had you know, sometimes you'll have the stories like that, right, they'll have the choice of what he makes and all that others.

But but you know, people like, why did you wait so long?

And he said he because he was worried about the legalities of it.

Yea, because it is weird and it's out there.

But you know, eventually, you know, he kind of did some research on it.

And I mean, it's only cannibalism's legal in forty nine states, forty nine of them.

You can eat someone.

It's the desecration of corpse, which he didn't do.

It's the killing, which he didn't do, that you know, make it illegal.

He didn't do any of that.

This was his own leg and he was still alive.

So you know, I love to get him on and to talk about a story war and you know, but he does talk about how you know, he's doing great now.

You know, it's just again he says his own words, he's very happy, living a very fulfilled life as a plant dad.

Yeah, I think that is wonderful.

In the same kind of vein.

This one's a little bit shorter, just because I don't have a lot of details about his personal life or anything.

But another Japanese gentleman, an artist by the name of I think it's Mao suga Yama.

Sugi Yama.

Mao Sugiyama is an asexual man.

Well, okay, I shouldn't say man.

He's an asexual individual.

They are an a sexual individual.

God, get this right.

Eventually we got there.

We got there, and they decided to do a piece of performance art where so they had their penis surgically removed, the whole penis and the balls and everything, and he they had an event where they invited people and a chef to come well eat, eat their penis and balls and screw up.

So they did this, Uh, the people eating doing the eating.

There wasn't very many because there wasn't enough to go around.

I mean, I just say, Penis isn't only so big a guys, right, it's average sizes, like what four inches or something like that.

It's not the big vidyl, it's whatever, right, it's not four inches.

It's enough, I promise it is, you know.

So they all sit down and he has a professional chef prepared the meal.

It was like mixed in with some other other things and you know, made into a proper meal.

And the people doing the eating they paid about I mean it was like twenty thousand yen, which is like two hundred and fifty bucks American.

Oh damn yeah, it's a steel to eat.

Penis talk about swallowing cock huh hed a dick head a dick.

There you go, and you're like, well, I'll go to I got tickets, I paid for this, paid to be here.

Joke's on you.

You know.

So he has this hoo event and it was a big like a performance art piece basically that he did.

But you know, the same situation.

Obviously Japan doesn't give a fuck about Cannibal's clearly, but you know, again, it was his own body part.

There was no desecration of corpse, there was no killing of anybody in order to achieve this.

The art piece itself was centered around There's a lot of different messages to it.

It's interpretive because it's art, but you know, definitely sited her on asexuality and you know, a commentary on on gender and you know, I'm too stupid to understand it, I'll be honest with you, I guess.

But yeah, it was another people sent around and ate his cock, and I mean he became super famous for it, and I think he's they're still probably to and all right to this day.

Wow.

I wonder.

I wonder if they were inspired at all by like the celebrity cannibalism.

Probably, I would imagine to an extent.

You know, you're living in that time period, yeah, I mean, you.

Know, I think, and and also maybe by the foot tacos guy, because it's your body part, right, you're getting rid of it anyway, Yeah, you might as well do something useful with it.

And I just I don't I don't take issue with that at all.

I just don't, you know, even with the placentas.

Yeah, it is weird, And I said that I thought about it.

And it might have done it.

But again, I think once they got to that plate, I would have been like, h never mind, that's gross.

But no, it is like bodily autonomy exactly.

There.

There shouldn't really be a line, should there.

It's the ultimate consent, it's yours.

Yeah, that's that's what I think.

When you I think if you were to have parts removed just to eat them, then that might be for the line is yeah, you know, but I think that in natural remote removal of things, and they're yours and you want to do whatever the fuck you want to do with them, that's nobody's business.

No, it's between you and the people involved.

You're eleven friends or whatever tends.

Now it would have been a problem if he did not disclose that it was human, then I would take issue with it that.

Yes, you can't secretly feed human people.

That's that's not okay.

You can't make fun of people if they get sick or back out or whatever, like, because that's one of those things like it's cool if you don't want too, man, no peer pressure, right, But yeah, that's uh.

I told you we'd end on a good note.

If you suffered through the bad you got to the we got there.

It's fun, the fun time, the cannibal fun time.

I don't know, did I leave anything out?

This is a long episode, but good, it's good.

This was I I don't think I have I don't think I have anything good.

It's a Monday, and I'm old.

I'm tired.

We're like twenty minutes out from my bedtime here.

Yeah, right, wrap this up?

Starting to get hungry, you know?

Uh no, it was uh, thank you for coming on this journey with me.

It's a very strange one and definitely a different you know, jump on some of the usual topics we cover here, but I think you know, obviously I fits the weird void.

Do you have anything that you want to say to the listeners before we wrap up?

Or do you want them to Do you have any thing to promote or put out there for people, whatever you'd like to say, it's your time.

Oh well, of course, thank you so much for having me.

I haven't laughed this much in a long time, which is an unhinged thing to say about after talking about cannibals for two and a half hours.

No, I think I have two things to say.

One, make sure if you don't already you have a public library card.

Public libraries are awesome spaces you can read about anything and everything, including cannibals and all the other weird stuff.

And librarians are awesome.

And if you are into miniature painting like warhammer painting, you can find me on TikTok and Instagram.

I am mal paints.

Minis very exciting.

I think a lot of people are going to come for that.

We've got lots of.

Trekkies, all the nerds I paint cool stuff.

They're totally no.

I think it's there's definitely layover between this community and that one.

So but but tell her, guys, if you show up because of the show, tell her that you showed up because of the show.

I want everybody to know why you're there.

Because you listen to the cannibalism episode of and Talk Weird.

You need to commit that public.

Am I the cannibalism girl?

Now you're the cannibalism girl.

Yeah, that's you.

You solidified your feet.

Oh my mom's gonna be so proud.

Good she should be.

No, but thank you.

I had a lot of fun.

Absolutely, absolutely, of course, you guys, let me know what you think.

No pressure to Mallory or anything, but let me know what you think about about this episode and about her as a guest.

Ho she is in the running, you may see her again in the future, if not every week, you know, hopefully maybe just again.

In general, this was tons of fun, so you know, definitely open invite to have you back on some time to talk about something else that's unhinged.

Well, thank you, and with that being said, guys

We will see you back here next Wednesday.