You seem to still be up there somewhere.

Maybe I am there are buying saucer, exposing their margins or something in there.

Hey, guys, welcome back to another weird Wednesday.

I'm Ashurst and this.

Is Jailo Julian Joan.

Thank you for coming on the show this week.

I'm so excited to let people listen to you.

And because I've been having a great time listening to you in our conversations and stuff like that.

That sounds kind of weird.

I'm not outside your house in the bushes or anything, or maybe I am.

But yeah, thank you for coming on and fill in the spot this week, you know, maybe potentially in the future.

Everybody, everybody give Julian hell because he is auditioning today for the show, and I want to make this as weird and as awkward as I possibly can for him to see if he can stand.

The pressure trial by fire, see if I can make it through.

It's a lot easier than you think.

It's so easy.

I don't are you even wearing pants right now?

Because I'm not.

I plead the fifth on that answers.

No, okay, okay, anyway, getting onto the regular format here, how was your weekends.

Oh, it's pretty good.

So for my weekend, so I do this thing with my friend I would call him Black Vests.

He actually works on my website.

He does some reviews on zombie media, and every other weekend we get together and we choose like three zombie films of a similar theme and then we watch them and then we choose a winner.

So okay, yeah, it's a little fun thing.

We do something just to kill time, let's hear it.

Yeah, so there are three films there was, and the theme for this night was do Deadites count?

Because me and him have this argument of whether or not Deadite from Evil Dead count as zombies.

He says no, I say kind of.

And so it was three films that were blatantly just ripping off Evil Dead And the first one was called Evil Night, which is this Italian film and it was like some film students owe to Quentin Turnantino, complete with the director playing the main character, who was just Seth Gecko from from Destil Dawn, except not as good.

And they tried doing it like the first half is like there's like a courtroom drama or something, but then like a bunch of like just these criminals going and robbing places, and then like the second half, the literal Book of the Dead shows up, like straight from Evil Dead too.

It's just like it, except cheaper, and people start getting possessed and it's like very it sounds more interesting than I'm making it.

It's very boring because I don't know, they didn't have enough budget for it or something.

The characters just weren't great.

I couldn't tell the acting was good because I don't speak Italian, but I mean they seem to having a good time, but overall just kind of lackluster.

And after that we watched a Swedish film called Wither, which was a little bit better.

Yeah.

Its essentially a bunch of teenagers get together at an old house in the middle of nowhere and then people start getting possessed by other worldly demons and being turned into zombie like creatures and then they had to kill them and it was very The effects were pretty good, like the Gore.

I'm a big gore guy, so I appreciate some good gor that can save a movie from me.

It was fine, like nothing spectacular, but if you need something just to put on the background and work and you don't mind unless you speak Swedish or you don't mind having subtitles, then it's not too shabby.

But the winner was one actually bought on Blu Ray a couple of years back, and it's called what's it called, Bloody Muscle Bodybuilder.

And hell, okay, that sounds fantastic.

It's a Japanese movie and it's literally just Japanese evil dead, so so uh, what it's about is this.

It took like twenty years to make, by the way, like he filmed it all like ninety five, like sometimes the nineties, and it hit finished it editing it until like twenty ten, so he took a while, and it's on film and stuff.

But basically it's about this bodybuilder who goes with like his ex girlfriend, this medium to like this house that his dad used to own, and it turns out there's a ghost in there and the ghost possesses the medium and starts trying to kill the ex girlfriend and the bodybuilder and it's very zany, very very much evil dead.

To legre in it, it's like cheap but charming.

There's a lot of fun twist in there, a lot of fun and gags in there, like I don't know if I don't know if this would have worked.

An evil dead, but one of the people get possessed, and their solution for getting him unpossessed was to literally suck the evil out from the wound and spit it out.

Oh okay, that's I could see why people could think that works, you know.

You know, don't don't know until you try, right, But uh, it's only an hour long too, Like, it's not that long, so it's on twob you can go check it out.

It's a fun time if you need to kill an afternoon.

It was just like it's really quick, it gets to where it needs to go for the amount of money it had, which I'm assuming is next to zero, as it does a lot with little and yeah, no, that was my Saturday.

But I did also watch another more recent movie.

Well actually it's like I think it came out this year called Strange Harvest.

Have you heard that one?

I have not.

So it's made by the guy who made Grave Encounters.

I want to say that old ghost movie from like yeah, back in like twenty two thousand nine or something on there.

You just said the old ghost movie and then.

Listen, I feel old.

That's old enough for me, like listen to it's a construct.

It's fake.

No, one's not real.

That's old new what does it?

I don't know, I see it.

I'm going on a tangent trying to cover up.

Said it's recorded.

I mean, everyone knows thinks two thousand and nine is old.

But no, it's this movie.

It's like a it's a documentary style movie motor like a kind of like uh Lake Mungo or Savage Land or something like that.

It's about like these interviews with these cops who are after this serial killer who is killing people in vicialistic manners, involving an eltrige god.

And it's very much like a serial killer movie slash love crafty and cosmic horror type of movie.

And it's really good and really interesting and I actually think is one of the best movies I've seen this year.

I'm gonna have to check that sounds right at my alley, So oh yeah, no, I.

Think you would really like it again if they do really really good job at just making it seem real, like or like making it seem plausible.

There are some parts where I'm like, ah, that kind of takes me out a little bit, but overall, it's like just a very interesting.

It can kept me engaged the entire time, like unrattling the story.

Answering these questions only leads to more questions you learn more about Like this, You don't learn a lot about what the hell is guy's doing, but what you do learn is very fascinating and it feels like a Lovecraft story written by like fucking what's his name, Robert Block or something the guy written rope Psycho or something like that.

Yeah, or Thomas Harris.

Even very cool.

Wow, sounds like you had a very fun weekend.

Oh yeah, No, I've watched a lot of movies on my weekends because it's my time off, so I gotta make up for lost time.

I feel that it's so tough getting them in.

I watched this weekend and I felt powerful.

I felt very empowered by being able to watch two movies on the weekends.

That's a lot of afforded time just gave to these movies.

No, it really is, My God, just sitting down to decide on a movie is like a whole like movie time in and of itself, you know what I mean.

That's like the first hour of me watching the movie is just going through my two B list and being overwhelmed and not knowing what they picked.

Right, You're like, but then you know as soon as you shit, like, oh that's the one, yes, so getting into I attempted to watch and this isn't part of my two movies, but I did attempt to watch until Dawn, and that didn't go well.

I just you know, I'm just not enjoying it.

I understand that they took the wind to go aspect out of the story, at least that's what people were saying.

And I was like, well, maybe I can get over that and just watch it.

But I couldn't, like stop thinking about it.

And I'm like, I can't.

It's too distracting.

It was too much talking and too boring.

And I turned it off.

I could go on for like hours of out until Dawn because I love the game.

I saw the movie in theaters and I can give you all of my grievances about that sometime.

Good.

Well, I mean it sounds like to me I made the right choice by turning it off, So.

There's a better waye Again, that's a good background movie.

Yeah, if you just need something in the background, I don't care about what the hell's on screen, then sure, but not something you should like invest your attention to.

I feel, yeah, I just it wasn't very good.

And then I watched another one that a lot of people are talking about right now, that was Weapons.

Oh.

I saw that twice in theaters.

I did see that.

I So, I will say the biggest thing for me, I have really bad ADHD and so it's hard for me to get into a movie to begin with.

So I can't just pick up any movie and be like, Okay, I'm gonna watch this, because I will turn it off.

I'll be like, I can't.

My brain just cannot.

It's not interested.

This was one of those movies where I was I didn't look at my phone once I was engaged.

I wanted to watch the whole thing.

Did I like it?

I don't.

Yes, and no.

I mean because the movie does have well, you know, which is kind of topical for the world right now, but it does have other things going on with it, right It is a political movie really about gun violence and mass shootings, oh for sure, which I don't I didn't care to deep dive into so much, even though I share the same views as you know, the director and that stance, I just didn't care I mean it was good just being what it was, you know.

Oh yeah, And I was okay with that and I was felt satisfied.

But yeah, it was it was just fine.

Check that out.

It is strange, but it's different, it's different.

I think it was a really good interpretation of what it is, like what happens, what it turns out to be.

I think it is a good modern reinterpretation of what it is.

I want to give away the twist or anything about what's going on, but I'm like, oh, okay, I can see this as what is based on Like there's like a modern day retelling of that.

Yeah, and yeah, I know, I know, I get what you're saying.

I'm picking up what you're putting down.

Yeah, okay, cool, cool.

I don't know if I'm being too vague, I will say I'm excited for his Resident Evil film because there's a scene in Weapons where I'm like, oh my god, he totally gets what what a zombie film is going to look like.

So I'm looking forward to that.

Very interesting.

Yeah.

I don't know if I was a big fan of the narudo run that they were all doing, but that was an interesting you know, to me, it felt like at this point, like you did that shit on purpose?

You put that in there for comedic relief.

Oh yeah, the whole well, I think the film is supposed to be someone of a dark comedy.

It is made by one of the whitest kids, you know, so.

Yeah, yeah it is.

And it's like you really did that, you know.

But but I can forgive it because it was interesting and granted I wasn't surprised.

I was like, oh, what a big twist, Like I knew right away, Yeah, what was going on.

I'm like, I know here.

And there's all checks out.

I've seen this before, right, you know, but still good movie.

Check it out.

And then I also watched this one's I've heard some really mixed reviews.

But I also finally watched The Monkey.

Oh man, I forgot The Monkey came out this year.

How much that when it first came out?

What'd you think of it?

It was?

I mean, it was another one where again I was pretty engaged the whole time.

You know, I was okay sitting and watching it, but by the time I got to the end, I was like, you know, it was good at first, and then I don't know, I don't understand, Like I was really enjoying.

There was too much story with them as kids, you know, for people that don't know, it's, you know, an adult man, well two technically two adult men, kind of sharing their story with this this toy monkey thing that they have, and but it was a lot of story about them as kids, and then it cuts to them as adults.

And I was enjoying them as kids, and then when it was adult time, I was like, Oh, I don't like whatever the fuck this is.

It's kind of Jarry because you're right, because you spend so much time with them as because you think it's gonna be like the entire movie, but or like, you know, you think it was gonna go like slot.

Slowly growing up.

Yeah, Oh, here's them as kids, here's them as teenagers, here's them with their first marriages, here's them now.

And it's like, but no, it's kind of hard cuts to modern day with them.

Yeah, and it's an entirely different story at that point, and it's like, okay, you know, so I could have done better, but I was decently entertained.

I watched the entire thing.

You know, good.

I think it was a nice four out of ten.

Yeah, I think nice four out of ten.

There you go, sold four that's the most that's the most positive four au ten I ever heard.

That was pretty al right, four out ten.

Ye, honestly, I I mean, obviously I forgot it came out this year, so it didn't really stick with me too much this year.

It's interesting because Osgar Perkins is one of the guy who directed it, who was the son of Anthony Perkins, the guy I played Psycho.

He's directing these films because he directed Long Legs, he directed The Monkey, and he's directing another one coming out.

But I forgot the name of it.

And it's interesting because he does have a unique style to his directing.

Yeah, and I find it very fascinating.

Yeah.

I didn't particularly care for Long Legs.

I didn't particularly care for The Monkey, but I do think.

I do think eventually he's going to make a movie.

I'm really gonna like.

It just hasn't come out yet, you know.

I Yeah, I'm right there with you.

Why.

I haven't watched Long Legs, so I think that this is the first movie I've watched of his.

But I would watch more stuff that he comes with, he comes out with, you know, and just kind of see you know, where it goes.

I think Long Legs is just not really like the premise just isn't interesting to me.

So I'm just like, it's like good.

Long Legs is an interesting case because you think all the trailers and stuff make it seem like it's one thing and then we can go watch it it's actually so something else, and well.

He needs the stop.

I mean, sometimes these directors need to stop.

They need to stop trying to force a twist.

It's like, stop trying to trick me, right, Like it's it doesn't have to like when it works, it's great, but like when you see it coming, you're like, well, just like I said in Weapons, like I said, there was no surprise, I was okay with it because I enjoyed it so much that it was all right.

But you know when you when you're trying to force it, and I felt like he did that in the Monkey and it's like, you know, it just it fell flat.

It was like I missed the mark there, Bud.

I think what the difference is that Weapons is based on a mystery, Like you're going in there expecting a twist and being like, hey, there's a mystery here, Yes, something is going on, Yes, you're going to find out something.

Well, the monkey is like, hey there's a monkey that killed That is a mall of killing people just kind of right, you know, twist comes out out no where.

You already right, you are already know what to expect.

So that's what you want to get, and I wanted to get more of it.

The deaths were great, Oh yeah, because like like final destination type death right, and that was fun.

They were so ridiculous and it was done on purpose.

He sat there like, yeah, I try to make these deaths ridiculous as possible, which is why a little bit of a spoiler when that one person dies in the water day immediately explode, right, Yeah, but yeah, no fun fact Osgod Perkins the first time I ever saw him, and I thought he wanted to go see long Legs.

I'm like, oh, it's good Perkins.

That sounds familiar.

Turns out he plays the bad guy in a little movie called Dead and Breakfast.

Ever heard of it?

I have?

Yeah, yeah, he plays the bad guy in that, the one that gets possessed.

That's as good Perkins.

I had no idea.

Wow, yeah, no, because I saw him like because he always CAMEO was in his films and I saw him.

I'm like that that guy.

I know that guy.

He's from He's from He's from the hit film Dead and Breakfast.

I have.

Check that one out.

That's a good movie.

Breakfast is great.

I watched that least every one or two years because it's such a creative and fun film.

And I'm said, I've never got a sequel.

Yeah, no, that's a good one.

Like I said, if probably most people have not watched it.

Probably most people that watch that listen to the show.

I've seen it though.

Well, it's one of Jeffrey Dean Morgan's first movies.

You have to go watch.

It shows up.

It's the sheriff and he's like a main character, and it's like, oh my god, it's I'm not sure if I'm at the curse on here is I apologize.

Oh my gosh, I thought you'd listened to the show before.

I did, so I don't remember.

So.

I don't want to be disrespectful.

I want to I want to be fucking respectful.

You would be disrespectful if you didn't cuss on this show.

That would piss me off.

All right, now, I'm not gonna do it.

I'm gonna be like, gee, goh it, gosh darn Mofman.

I mean, I'm also a goofball, so I might really dig that too.

Sitting there, there's no winning.

I'm always going to be on the under good side.

Well, speaking of moth Man, it's a good thing you brought him up.

I'm going to see him this weekend.

I hope that's right.

The moth Man Festival endpoint, Pleasant, West Virginia.

And not just I'm not just going to be there.

You guys, you've heard me talk for years now about me attending this festival every single every single year.

I'm not just attending this year.

I am speaking at noon on Saturday.

You can come listen to me talk.

I know it's about damn time.

I know that's what everybody's thinking.

I know, but but here it is.

It's finally happening, you know.

Come out obviously, support the festival, Support everybody in fault, have a good time to meet me.

Come take a picture with me.

Ask ask to take a picture with me, because I'm not going to ask to take a picture with you.

That'd be weird, you know, would though maybe I will.

Just every person that comes up, like you want to take a.

Picture with me, just be like, hey, picture, let's do it.

Steve O does that, but he doesn't stand up comedy.

He does at the end of the show has everybody come and take an individually take it into selfie with him.

It's crazy.

Does it work out for him that people are like, oh yeah, it's.

Like a two hour line, so yeah, I must.

I mean, like, shoot, he's on the something.

Yeah.

I was there and I bought his book just because I stood in the fucking line for so long.

I was like, taking this book with me.

I'm not leaving here of nothing.

So I mean that's that might work, but no, definitely, you know, come approach me.

You guys already heard Cassie last week on the show talk about the awesome things that she's bringing to literally to the table at the month band Festival, and uh, come by the Injured Cold book.

I mean, that's what you're there to listen to me talk about it.

Will be there with me.

I will sign it for you.

I will.

I told you guys last week.

I'll lick it if you want, you know, and then you can do whatever weird thing you want with it later on in your own time around not anybody else So does that.

Cost extra or does that come with the book?

That will come with the book?

Look at that?

What a deal?

Yeah?

Free licking?

Yeah there go?

You know?

Id you to go walk over to fucking Ken Gearhart's table and ask him to lick the book for free?

I bet you anything, you won't be you will at least charge a dollar at least that minimum.

Yeah.

So that's what I've got going on.

I don't have any news news this week, Julian, did you have something?

Yes?

I do.

Well.

First, I want to give a couple of shout outs before I do anything else, if you don't mind.

So a couple of I work for dread Central.

I'm a writer for them, and I specialize in indie horror.

And I have a couple of indie horror things happening for you guys I think should check out.

First of all, David Hartman, who is a really really good artist, does that.

He does a lot of work for like Rob Zombie.

He directed Phantasm five.

If anyone ever seen that, he's a really cool dude.

He has a Kickstarter for a new graphic novel called Monster Drive in Isle of Evil.

It's the first volume in this series of just like grindhouse style horror stories drawn by him, I think written by him.

I don't remember off the top of my head, but this one is about a couple, like you know, a group of party girls and a grizzled captain.

Seaboat Captain go to an island where two warring mad scientists are making monsters and shenanigans in sue and it looks really good.

If you go check out the kickstarters a couple of pages on there already can check out and it looks it's definitely unique, has a great style to it.

Second, there's a short film by Mike.

I apologize if I mispronounced your last name, Mike Kusiak, I want to say.

Anyways, it's called Knife.

If you go on YouTube night, but go on to my website actually Jiljulian dot com and the on a screen near you tab you'll find Knife there and it's a three minute short film where it's like a slasher movie, but it's from the point of view of the knife.

Yeah.

So it's all shot from the nice point of view of going around and killing somebody, and it's very fun, like I think they're trying to make it like feature film somehow, and I'm look, I'm really interested in seeing how they're going to do that, so hopefully, hopefully they figured that out.

And last, if you're in Texas, particularly North Texas, because Texas, I don't know if you guys know this, it takes like thirteen hours from Central Texas get anywhere.

So, but if you're in North Texas or just in Texas in general, Trauma is doing a tour where Lloyd Coffin and a bunch of the other guys are going around to different theaters and showing off at Toxic Avenger Talk Adventure two, Toxic Avenger three, Ford a New One Shakespeare shit Storm, and you can go there and meet them.

They're doing meet and greets, Q and a's all that kind of fun stuff and merch and all that.

So if you go back again on my website Julianjiljulian dot com, you can go to the events tab and all the information will be right there for you if you're interested in plus a lot more stuff on there if you are, I'm always trying to add new independent horror project media on there for you guys to check out, have interviews and all that kind of fun stuff.

So if that interests you, by all means, go check it out and who knows, might find something you like.

Yeah.

Absolutely, I'll put the Of course, the link will be in the description, so you guys can go, you know, checking check that down where you're listening to this episode.

It'll still plank.

Yeah, there you go.

It'll multitask night.

There's no excuse not to right now.

Man.

Now you have expectations for you guys.

You have to do it now.

Yeah.

But as far as the weird news goes, I got something from AP news and about Australia.

So apparently a senior lawyer.

I'm gonna go ahead and quote the article quote.

A senior lawyer in Australia has apologized to a judge for filing submissions in a murdered case that included fake quotes and non existent case judgments generated by artificial intelligence.

The blunder, Yeah, the blunder in the Supreme Court of Victoria State is another in a litany of mishaps AI has caused in the justice systems around the world.

Defence lawyer I apologize in my misprounts guy's name Rishi Nahwani, who holds the pertigious prestigious legal title of king's counsel.

Fancy took full responsibility for filing incorrect information in submissions in the case of a teenager charged with murder.

Oh my god, saying.

I mean, like, I'm sorrying to think that maybe AI doesn't belong in the courtroom.

Oh no, hot take, Maybe I'm crazy.

I just think that maybe there is a probably stay out of that or maybe not have it sort your cases out and just make shit up for you.

Well, the tech pros, I think, disagree with you, Juliana.

They every one of them.

Yeah, they're gonna be They're gonna be in your in your dms.

Like, who would you say that about AI?

Bro You're just jealous, broke.

You don't understand AI.

AI is the future or whatever.

Yeah there, Well that is well, I mean just another reason.

You know, it's it's unfortunate my day job.

You know.

They the guy who runs the company gets really close and personal with us.

Not it's actually a good guy, but you know, he talks to us like real people, and you know, he just kind of mentioned the reality of like, you know, AI's here and it's not gonna go anywhere, you know, So what does that look like for for everybody else in their jobs and you know, things like that, and so he was being real honest about something which is terrifying.

I mean it's terrifying to a lot of people.

And it's like, but you know, if I ask AI a question like I can't even get a decent result.

Exactly, and apparently I just don't know how to ask the right question.

And I feel like if I just google it, I'll get my answer quicker.

Right right, He doesn't google it.

Pop the first article you see, Okay, there we go.

You know, then you can go to the next five and they all confirm and it's like, oh, okay, you know that's exactly it.

And you know, not just that it It is not good for us.

It's not good for our artists.

We know that it is making us dumber.

You guys, it is.

And there's you know act, you know, people aren't researching anymore, taking it at face value, like I saw have you been watching the New Alien Earth?

I haven't.

Okay, Well, there's an instance, no spoilers, an instance where there's a bit of information said and uh, the bit of information is wrong and we're sitting there thinking like, oh, is it like a it was a quote that was attributed to an author but it was the wrong author, and people are like, oh, it's just like some sort of like commentary about this character not being as smart as a you.

He thinks he is, similar to like an alien from an Alien Covenant when David accidentally said a quote attributed to Lord Byron when it wasn't really and uh no, it turns out Noah, is it, Haley?

You want to say, Holly, he did a joke and I don't know as a joke or fact, but he was like, oh, yeah, no, the character looked the quote up on chat GBT and got the wrong answer and that's why he says that.

And I'm sitting there, I'm like, did you when you're writing this, did you use chat GPT?

That's right to look up who said that quote and didn't fact check it, because that's the case.

Waw, what the hell?

Man?

Probably probably, you know, I'm not going to act like I'm holier than now.

I've used chat GPT for for certain things, for you know, like trying to do time management or creating a meal plan or you know, it's great for things like that.

You know, it really is, and you know, granted, like, yes, I guess I could sit down and write my own time management scheduler.

I could sit down and do my own meal planning.

But why would I waste time doing that when I could have a computer do it, and then I could waste time doing something else, like anything else, you know, watching a movie or you know, not just that.

You guys know, I'm a very busy person.

But it's great for that type of thing.

It's just that there's no regulation on this at all, and for it to go unchecked is exactly what the fuck every single movie about this is about.

And all these black mirror episodes, all these dystopian corporate futures that all these movies show us, and we're.

Just right, We're like cool.

So I mean, you know, and so I mean not to be you know, an alarmist or anything, because yeah, it's I mean, it's half a joke, but not seriousness.

Like I said, it is.

At minimum, it's making us dumber.

And that's an issue because we're definitely starting to see very large impacts not of AI quite yet, but just as us as a society not doing so well.

If the last week has been any type of indicator to anybody whatsoever.

Yeah, it's it's been rough.

We're just not we don't have our shit together right now.

Like we like we are in total crisis mode.

We just shaved all of our hair off, we died whatever was left.

And the eyebrows we took those off too, Like we need to get it together.

Okay, we need to break.

We need some self care right now.

We need to get we got to get ahold of ourselves.

AI is not helping, it's not.

Helping, right, It's just another you know, another issue that we have going on.

So anyway, but yeah, no, that's you know, I think that's a weird enough story.

I think that's pretty good, pretty good, And hopefully you know, that lawyer learned his lesson and maybe now they will again I hope create some regulations based off of what they learned.

Oh, given how often this happened already, it's going to take a bit, I think.

So AI is starting to get regulated, like there's some there's some concepts of ideas of regulating AI.

And now that Warner Brothers has joined the fight because they just sued Mid Journey for copyright infringement, and we'll see where that nice.

So again on my relationship.

The I've never used chat GBT, like I just never had the knee to use it.

Like the most I've used is like auto transcripts so I can get like a rough transcript to actually do a better transcript of just have it there so I can have something to look at.

But I do think it's a tool that is a tool.

I don't think it's necessarily a tool that should be used in art, like generative AI I think is kind of an issue like AI as far as like you know, planners or getting stuff information sorted out quicker and more efficient.

Sure, why not.

But art I feel like if you're using AI for art is not really making art.

You're just kind of telling a computer to make hallucination.

Yeah, pretty much, And you know it's well and so far.

I mean we've kind of got things working in our favor, like you can't copyright AI, oh yeahs and things like that, so that helps, you know, it doesn't stop people from making it, but it helps, oh.

Yeah, because on the can they can't not only can like if they were to sell it, anybody could sell It's not like they have an intellectual property to an AI piece because there's no way to cut right an AI piece in fact, fun story about strange harvest.

I learned this from hearsay.

I'm not sure how true it is, but apparently, and it's an original festival run.

They had a bunch of AI images for scenes of like the carnage and stuff like that.

And I think that's true because I read a lot of reviews saying that, oh my god, the scenes with the corpses and stuff look like absolute shit.

But at some point they filmed actual scenes with real people and replaced them those AI images with those scenes.

So I think what they did was just use those AIAI images as a placeholder to get into the film festival sooner and while they're still making the movie, which I'm like, that's a very interesting way of going about.

It, kind of storyboarding in a way.

Yeah, but I feel like I could backfire because people are going to say, your movie looks like shit, and if it's not finted, I don't know, it's you know what that's like forty chess.

I guess I just don't get it.

Yeah, well me, neither me, neither.

Any guy's here to stay.

We just got to learn to live a bit one way or another.

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on what you use it for.

Yeah, no, and I agree with that.

I mean, like I said, I'm not I'm not totally against the concept of using it.

I get its usefulness, but that's a slippery slope right now, and hopefulny it won't be forever.

Yeah, I just don't think it should be a substitute for the human condition and spirit and creativity.

But you know, to be fair, I mean, people also lacked critical thinking.

You know, that started declining just with the invention of the Internet as a whole.

That's true.

People just gonna start believing whatever they saw on the Internet.

That's true because it was on there.

You know, my mom, me and her had a conversation the other day about I'm gonna get too big into politics, but about voting and you know who what side of the coin she was on, you know, a couple couple of years ago, and how that's changed so much now.

And you know, when I was telling her, I'm like, well, you know, you knew about this, this and this, and yet you still voted for that person.

And she's like, well, but I didn't know.

And then we kind of talked about the concept of how pre twenty twenty.

You know her and her older age.

My mom's in her fifties.

She wasn't really exposed to the internet as much as she is now.

And how really that the pandemic.

I mean, it took older people and it got them online more, you know, I feel like, and so just it's becoming more accessible, and you know, because things like that are becoming more accessible, more people are using it, and so it's happening at a quicker and quicker rate that people are becoming well dumber.

Whereas you know, twenty years ago, you only had select people that were on the internet, you know, taken in the dumb.

Son that was a little bit more intimating to get into as well, wasn't as easy.

You know, you had to do a lot more searching to find what you want to need.

It was like a Wild West of just random crap that's all on there with all these angel fire sights.

Oh god, Right, and then you spend two hours and you finally you find something about what you're talking about, and you're like, I'm just gonna take it for face.

Value, because I was like, listen, I'm not gonna it's going to take me to four hours of fact check this now, I'm good.

Right, somebody keeps trying to call me.

I keep getting fucking kicked off.

This is in there, like yeah, no, I'm good.

Yeah, I know.

God, I got to restart it again because my sister will have to make a phone call.

Yeah, pretty much.

So trying to download a picture, I had thirty minutes left.

Well, speaking of things that are really old, today, we're going to be talking about a really when I find a really fascinating topic, We're going to be talking about freak shows and freak and you know, when I say that, freaks has definitely become more of a derogatory term right since these times.

But I'll be honest with you, I didn't really find a good substitute to use, you know, in place of what we're talking about.

So I guess, like you could say sideshow performers, I guess, but that's not necessarily talking about Yeah, that's that's why it encompasses a lot more, I guess.

Yeah, it's it's yeah, but the state, Yeah, you know, but basically what we're talking about, I mean, in a lot of cases, these are people who have very peculiar physical deformities or people that have extremely special talents or they're more it can to professional wrestlers, where they are just regular people, but they have created a persona based off of, you know something else, you know entirely based off of a talent, or you know something that you know just being unfortunately just being black or colored or.

Whatever anything not white or anything like that.

You're you're up for the freak show.

Yeah, you know this This was a very a very uh a wide group and there was a time period where you know, these people were not treated like absolute garbage.

They you know, they were so they kind of started off as like I'm being treated like human garbage and I can't work because I'm severely disabled and there's no social program to help me, and I have to do something.

So what am I gonna do?

I'm going to show people that I was born without legs or whatever, and you know, and then that's they would have to kind of do that type of demeaning work in order to gain something.

But then they hit like a peak in history, and we'll go over all this this is just a quick summary.

They hit a peak instoy and then it started to kind of you know, go down slide downward when people kind of started feeling fucking bad for what they were doing.

So like, finally, these people were making a fucking killing richer then you you or I today and people are like, maybe we shouldn't do.

This anymore, maybe kind of bad, maybe it is kind of shitty of us, and then took away the only fucking jobs that they could get, And so it's just it, it is all bad, but it's not all bad at the same.

Time, it's it's a complicated issue.

Like, you know, yes, they made a lot of money at a certain view of them, made a lot of money doing this.

However, they were still subjected to abuse and things like that.

So it's kind of like a little bit of column at a little bit of column be It really depends on how you look at it, and.

It depends on the performer too.

I mean, you know, each there's so fucking many of them that, you know, it's difficult to kind of pick and choose these people to do a whole episode on because it's just it seems almost endless.

But depending on who it is, you know, they have a different set of circumstances you know that kind of make up their their success or their tragedy, you know, But you know, getting into it.

Sideshow performs as freak shows started off.

I mean they've been around for fucking ever forever.

This a medieval period.

People have been treating these people as like objects of interest in entertainment and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, the exactly, you look weird and they have nothing better to do except drink ale and died to plague.

Might as well go look at the weird guy.

And the weird guys like I need to be able to eat.

So yeah, exactly.

You know, and it's been going on forever.

I mean they started off really having you know a lot of them.

The performances, they would kind of travel around to different local taverns and they would have like a set spot like oh, come see the you know this little person or you know what again whatever, there's so many I don't want to pick on one group of people.

Yeah exactly, look at this you know, not societally normal person, Like that's someone that we consider normal over here.

Yeah, you know, so I just kind of, you know, I did like a little history I want to talk about.

You don't want to consider a super interesting case and one of the oldest recorded cases, not probably not the oldest but one of them is Lazarus, and I think it's Jonas.

I have a bunch of notes about him too on here.

That's a little bit of history, so we're both on the same page.

Awesome, Yeah, Lazarus, and we're gonna we're going with Jonas.

Lazarus and Jonas Colorado.

They were they were Italian conjoined twins and they were around during the very early sixteen hundred.

That they were born in sixteen twelve, so Lazarus was what is known as an auto site, while Jonas was known as a parasitic twin.

Jonas only had an upper body and a left leg, and these were protruding out of Lazarus's chest, basically his torso he could and would sometimes move his body parts some people.

You know, a part of the act was getting Jonas to react to them, which is gross.

I think they had like placed her hand on him and he would move or something like that, which seems kind of invasive.

But again, you know, yeah, I don't know how far they would take it, like are they hitting him?

Are they just touching him?

It seemed that Lazarus was actually pretty protective of his brother, and I will kind of get into that in a moment.

But you know, Jonah says eyes were closed at all times in his mouth just hung wide open.

When you look at the alleged there's no picture of him, but like the drawing of them, it looks very bizarre because Jonah seems like he's kind of upside down.

Because yeah, I saw that picture too, and I think that's accurate if I from what I've read.

Right, So he's like late because he's coming out of the chest, but he can't hold himself up, so he's just kind of flopped over and it is really horrifying looking.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that's what basket Case is based off of.

Well, I was going to talk about basket Case.

Yeah, hello, one of my one of my favorite movies SOT exactly.

So, a parasitic twin is basically like they don't as far as we know now, like parasitic twins do not possess the ability to be able to speak, and they're so far has not been one that's ever been deemed like sentient like conscious, and.

So is mostly just reflex right, it is nerve kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, it's just right.

It's just electrical impulses going through the body making things happen.

They don't usually have a brain at all.

Yeah, which is I'm not saying they're stupid like the AI people.

I'm just saying, like, literally, they don't have brain exactly.

Like It's a very literal case in this version.

Nowadays, we don't see a lot of that, except for maybe in their world countries, because they they're just so easily removed because their body does not control, you know, whereas like we have other conjoined twins where both of them are very much alive, you know, in this case it has no bearing at all.

But you know, a good example of a parasitic when gone sentient is within the movie basket Case.

Yes, which is a fantastic little, uh little like micro budget independent feature, and that is my second favorite Hill Later film.

I really like Brain Damage, but basket Case is definitely up there.

Oh, basket and basket Case is so underrated, you know, I don't know if people watch it, but I'll tell you what's really underrated, basket Case two.

I've never actually seen Basketcase two.

I know of it, I know what happens that I've seen clips, but I never actually sat down and watched it.

Is it worth my time, absolutely.

Especially if you're talking about this topic today.

I know there's like a lot more in there is there like a lot more characters in there that have different sort of like uniqueness.

Yes, it's fucking out there.

If you thought the first one was out there, Basketcats, basket Case two just takes that to a whole new level.

But it's because you know what you're getting into already with a basket case movie like your you'll like it, so yeah, check that shit out.

But no, that was you know, like I said, technically a you know, a parasitic twin becoming some type of sentience.

I you know, I don't remember, I haven't seen.

I'm watching a while.

I don't think they expected him to have sentience once they were separated, which is.

Yeah, I think you were supposed to die, because I remember they both had sentience and then they are forcibly removed from each other because their parents like hired a doctor to do like an illegal procedure just to like cut the twin off his chest.

But then it lived, and somehow they both just hung out together.

I bout anybody knowing, I don't know.

And there, yeah, now they're going around and killing the people that separated them, you know.

So you know, since this was the early sixteen hundreds there there really isn't a lot known about like their personal life.

But it is said that Lazarus, you know, he had a wife, he had multiple children.

When he wasn't entertaining, he would keep Jonas covered with a cloak just to kind of avoid that conversation right out in the public.

Was like, he cared for us and for him rather cared for his brother and didn't want him to be really cooled off the job.

Well, absolutely, and you know, and it is very easy for people to do that.

He made a living off of people doing that, so you know.

But allegedly there's a story that Lazarus actually killed a man for making fun of his brother.

I did not hear this.

Yes, so Lazarus killed a man for making fun of his brother one time, and he killed him, and he was actually sentenced to death for killing this man.

However, the jury or whatever it was at the time, had a second thought because here's the thing about it is that if they killed Lazarus, that means Jonas, who is innocence, would also die as well.

So he got off scott free with murder because of.

This, you can't kill me, you who killed an innocent person, and God wouldn't like that.

And they're like, shit, you're right, God wouldn't like that.

God, I guess you're a free to go.

So I'm just saying, if you ever want to get away with murder, you absolutely can if you're a conjoint twin.

Is what it sounds like.

Oh that's what it sound like.

I get at Jail Free Car where it's like, if you put what me in prison, you have to put both of us in prison.

And that's not fair, is it?

I mean, how would we manage that to eat today?

You know what I mean?

Like?

What, Look, I guess you have to like, I don't know, do half in half like I said there, Like, all right, you're in jail for half the year and out of jail for the other half of the year.

Oh no, that that seems like a headache for a lawyer to figure out or a sure that.

This was a concept used not just once, but multiple times in the show Cat Dog.

Yeah.

I think there was an episode where that actually happened, where Dog got sent to jail, and it was just like, well, we just made a hole in the wall.

So yeah, that just hangs outside well while the dog is inside the cell, and I'm like, yeah, I guess.

Yeah pretty much.

And he's just like and having his best life sitting there right outside of the jail or whatever it was.

Yeah, as good of a life as you can have.

I guess cat Dog is my ship.

I'm just saying, oh.

Yeah, it probably explains a lot about me.

Honestly, I'll go there, back back and watch that show and be like, oh, that is kind of weird, isn't it Maybe explain some things about my sense of humor.

You know, I'll tell you it's a little refreshing having another nineties baby on the show.

It's always been me and a bunch of dudes from the eighties, and I'm just like, I don't I don't get it.

I don't know how much about it.

Sorry.

I was like, I wasn't old enough to watch Transformers when it was new, right now.

I grew up with Rocco's Modern Life, Johnny Bravo, Powerfuff Girls, all that shit.

Yeah, so I'm glad I canna make a cat dog reference and you get it, because.

I was like, I know it, not one do I get it?

I know exactly which episode you're talking about.

But you know, a great concept for conjoined twins.

Really it's super interesting how they how they end up overcoming conflict as a cat and dog together.

Of course, you know very neat how do they go to the bathroom?

We all I have that same question.

We don't know, we don't ask it, like listen.

I think it just comes down is you don't want to know.

That's that's I think that's the answer to all that.

I mean, I don't know who you think you're talking to.

But I know it's like, No, I want to know every bit about it.

I want I want a dissertation, I want like a I want an essay.

I want to watch the scientific results.

Yeah, I want to see the diagram.

Yeah right, No, I want to sit down and have full view, you know, front road tickets and watch it.

I want to take my own notes.

Just pretend I'm not here.

You tell Cat Dog as you get your glasses and you were your journal ready.

And some type of catch pans so I could do a specimen.

This episode of Cat Dog got really weird, really.

Quick, but not too weird for that show.

I mean, honestly, it sounds like it could be an episode like this is this is the time where like Rin and Stimpy was on TV and stuff like that, and there's there's like adult shows out there that don't go as crazy as Ren Snippy did well.

And you know, I'm telling you listen, if they took those nineties shows and they made adult versions today, they would they would fucking bank.

They would laugh all the way to the bank because we would all all of us millennials, was that there and watch them?

We would I know they I know they made an adult version Wren Stimpy on MTV back to like the odds, and that's all I know.

I never watched it.

I never watched it either, But I wasn't the Grin and Stimpy kid, but I was a big.

Yeah.

That was more of Roco's modern life than Ren Snimpy and Rocco was also kind of like that that kind of weird as humor, that's kind of like gross out.

Well they heard they did that Rocco movie not that long ago.

Yeah, the actually interesting, it was good.

It's good.

Yeah.

They included like the wasn't like the Frogs Kid trans or something, Yeah, the big Kids.

Yeah, Yeah, it was.

Interesting how they tackled all that.

It was actually kind of refreshing seeing a show from like the nineties tackle such issues like that.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, so I appreciate it.

I liked it.

Anyway, back to back to freak shows.

Oh right, right, Sorry, I thought we're talking about Nickelodeon.

We could do a whole episode just on Nickelodeon.

So if anyway, freak shows would not really become a commercialized concept until the nineteenth century, and then for one hundred years, you know, would go on to have a spot in just modern pop culture basically.

So what would happen with commercialization is, you know, pretty much you would instead of just having like one individual that would go around and you know, freak people out or whatever with theirselves, they would all kind of band together in these groups and would showcase themselves in many different ways, traveling serviaces.

You know, you had PT Barnham's American Museum, which we're definitely going to get into.

The one for ten shows.

It is, oh yeah, yeah, ten for one, ten.

Yeah, ten one where it's like we can charge more of a ticket price and we have more than one person here.

Yeah, So I mean they would come up with interesting concept to as a group, you know, profit off of themselves, frankly, you know, And of course you did still have some people that were kind of out on their own, or or maybe they would travel on their own and then come back to like their home base.

You know.

What was really nice about having stuff like P.

T.

Barnum's American Museum was that it offered these people a chance at stability.

They didn't have to travel.

People came to see them.

And while he certainly wasn't the only person who who did this, there were definitely more museums and things like that that were kind of stable, he was probably the most well known.

Oh yeah, he's the one that like, actually I think maybe not the first, but one of the first.

He was like a salesman.

He was like a showman.

He really made these shows look much bigger than life.

Like, oh, I'm trying to say he he was really good at advertisings.

What I'm trying to say, He's really good at showing off and being like, hey, come see this, come see this.

It's like nothing you've ever seen before, this this and this, and coming up with new ideas of throwing there that no one else.

Like a lot of people copied his ideas for their own shows because they kept coming up with them.

Well right exactly, you know, and these celebrities freaks, I mean, they would end up becoming straight, straight up celebrities in their own rights, you know.

And you know, they they really, like I said, they would live very lavish lifestyle, some of them.

I'll kind of get into a couple here that I have, you know, to kind of just show you guys what type of life that they could have.

And it's something that they I mean, even in today's society, they really can't have that, you know.

So it was just good for them, you know, good for them for being able to own that.

You know.

I love when people take something, you know, of themselves and then they they utilize it to empower themselves.

I've used it before, being fat.

Right, you can call me fat if you want to, I guess, But like I think that's wonderful.

I'm warm and squishy and great to hold, so perfect.

See I said in there, that just sounds like jealousy from everybody else exactly.

You know, but you can definitely take a take a negative and turn it into a positive.

Right.

People can't hurt you with that if it is.

You know, if you're a fucking that time period's millionaire, good luck I.

Have you just accept your If you just accept yourself for who you are and make a shit ton of money, who cares what other people think.

They're like, oh my god, they hurt my feelings.

While you pull out your dollar bills to wipe away the tears, I was like, oh my.

God, oh these are wet.

I can't use these anymore.

It's just toss toss away your pound.

So I mean, but while these freaks would become celebrities in their own right, it didn't make the practice any less explain.

Oh, not at all.

It was well, it's basically just all exploitation.

That's pretty much the name of the game.

As far as this concern completely go about it.

Complete exploitation.

You know, capitalism, it brings out the worst than all of us.

A lot of these people were promoted as unknown species or missing links or mystery races, right, so they would you know, for example, they would take folks with something like microcephaly, which makes the head look strange and causes you know, developmental delays and things like that, and would showcase them as quote, the missing link.

Some people with missing limbs, you know, could I mean that would get taken and switched around, so you'd have like a man that had no arms and no legs, and he would be called the snake man.

You know.

Even where wolf syndrome, even though that's what we call it, the condition where you grow hair all over your body, call that because people would refer to these people as wolfmen, or where wolf the wolf boy, or you know, again, very very much exploiting people's conditions.

Black people definitely got the worst of it.

Oh yeah, I have a story about PT.

Barnum and his first gig and showmanship that involved black person.

Go ahead, Yeah, So his first gig was at age twenty five.

I got this from the article P.

T.

Barnum Isn't the hero of the Greatest Showman wants you to Think?

By Jackie Mansky of Siacilian Magazine.

So basically, his first gig was he found this woman, old woman, old black woman who this person acquaintance claimed was like, oh yeah, she's one hundred and sixty one years old and she is the former nurse of George Washington.

Come see her and stuff like that.

So P.

T.

Barnum purchased the right to rent her and exploit her around and show her off to people.

So he basically and he had to purchase the right to rent her because slavery was outlawed in the North at the time, so he literally just found a way to a loophole to get a slave to show off.

So that's that's pretty shitty.

And she was just like a super old woman, like you know, he would advertise her as being over one hundred and sixty years old, but she was only eighty.

Yeah, her name was Joyce Heath, I want to say, yeah.

And she and he would like take out like bets on not bets, but he would like sell tickets to the woman's autopsy to prove that she was oldacked when she died, and which is just all kinds are fucked right.

It's just terrible.

I mean, first of all, I don't think they could have proven that anyway with the with the you know what they had at the time.

Yeap that that liver looks old, Like right, what the what the fuck is that going to do?

They took a bite out of her and they're like, oh, yet stale.

It's like, oh man, yeah, that's kind of sour, isn't it.

You're not really gonna test that, but he would.

I mean, that's the kind of shit that he would do.

And so obviously, like he knew this woman wasn't that old, he knew that the snake man wasn't the snake man or whatever.

It was all part of spectacle.

He believed in deception, like he says, he didn't like when we say I have a quote here by he says, uh, let's see, he is fully aware.

He says, I don't believe in duping the public, but I believe in first attracting them and then pleasing him, which sounds a lot like he believes in duping the public.

Well, and being in this field for as long as I have, doing a podcast like this for as long as I have, and seeing other people around me, I mean there's definitely people even today that value entertainment over fact checking.

And oh yeah, you know, the listeners know exactly how I feel about something like that.

But like, obviously that idea is at minimum, we know ites about two hundred years old, yeah, exactly even older.

So you know, much like AI, it's probably not going to go anywhere, and we should probably regulate it better.

But here we are exactly.

You know, I mean to give credit.

I'm not credit, but to get you know, like to be fair.

It's not like people could really fact check back in like eighteen fifty or whatever anyway.

So I guess they just have to believe what's been told to them and they question it.

It's not like they can go look it up somewhere to see what the real story is.

So and not that they would want to, because I don't think they want to do stuff like that.

Yeah.

Absolutely, And you know what P.

T.

Barnum I quoted in here being the quote Greatest Showman because on it.

Let's be real, like that's how people.

A lot of people know P.

T.

Barnum.

People like us, like we're aware of like the monster he was.

But you know a lot of people see them like the Greatest Showman movie and they're like, oh, what a great, wonderful guy.

And he was so nice to all of them.

He's practically a saint.

He's such a good guy.

We're sitting there, I'm like, I mean, listen, I'm not going to get on people for watching a movie.

Like listen, they're watching a movie where about a bad guy who was showcased as a good guy.

Like, you know, I can't say shit.

I watched Tombstone.

Why are piece of shit in real life?

A holiday?

Not great?

So I can't say anything.

And I enjoy that movie.

It's just that, you know, recognize that it's fantasy and not in fact.

I suppose.

Yeah, there's not a lot of movies that are real good with the facts.

Oh yeah, you know, it's a fantasy world where bt what what if P.

T.

Barnum was a good guy.

It's like, oh yeah, what a wonderful world.

That is?

What a hordriful fantasy.

I wish it was real.

I mean, I'm not saying that P.

T.

Barnum never did anything good for anybody.

Oh yeah, I mean you know, but some monsters do good things from time to time.

Don't get me wrong, but it's kind of.

Like, you know, a needful things type of situation where you know, he you know or like or like the bad Genie right paradox where you wish for like a big cock and now you are ting to a giant chicken for the rest of your life is a poor choice, right, And you're like, God, damn it, really I should.

Have brought a fucking lawyer.

So I can get this wish like all the ship squared away, Yeah you're here.

Yeah, and that you know, that's basically what it is.

But you know, honestly, P.

T.

Barnum probably would, I mean, he wouldn't be quite as big.

He wasn't the only person to commercialize freak shows.

A huge influence in that that people do not give credit to enough is Charles Sherwood Stratton, or better known as General Tom Thumb.

Oh yeah, I have a little bit.

Uh yeah, let me see yep, right here.

I got a little bit on him too.

Yeah, General Tom Thumb.

He was one of Barnum's most famous acts, and you know, he kind of was inspiring to the other Freaks.

I gotta hate this.

He keeps saying that it's not terrible.

But I mean the other to the other performers, To the.

Other performers, that's way better.

Thank you, my god, you're a welcome keeping me a check up.

I'm gonna get canceled after listen.

It's going to happen.

I'm sorry, I really am trying.

I'd say Freaks with the utmost sincerity was like.

Non derogatory, even though there's no way to really say it.

Non derogatory the.

Non derogatory freaks.

You know, I'm sorry, but no, really, I mean, he really wasn't an inspiration to all of them.

Now, General tom Thum, he was a He was a tiny man who allegedly, at the age of six months old, stopped growing.

And we know a little bit later that he would end up growing a little bit more in his life.

But when at his death at forty five, he was only three foot four inches, so not I mean, really, if you think about three foot that's like one of my.

Legs exactly, you know, I mean that that was a lot taller than I thought he was.

I think a last thing I checked out, he was about two foot something.

He grew a whole lot of extra foot he was.

He was too.

He was in the to the two foots most of his life, so that was pretty normal.

But he he only growed so much.

But here's here's the tragedy of General Tom Thumb is that he was found by Barnum when he was only four years old.

And you know, at the time, obviously he was very small.

He was the size of a six month old fucking baby.

Yeah, I think maybe he grew an inch in that time.

You know from that age on, but you know, still, but Barnum found him and essentially adopted him, you know himself, and into like the show and trained him to perform.

He was pretty much like his mentor.

He trained him to do these you know, bizarre impersonations of things like Cupid or Napoleon Bonaparte was one, which you know, was that's kind of fun curious.

I mean, I'm pretty sure we a lot of things attributed to Napoleon Pie come from uh general Tom Thumbs impersonations now I think about it.

Yes, I don't know if that's a fact.

I based that entirely on just me thinking right now and no actual factual evidence.

But I bet you about to looking there's probably some bleed through.

In that, you know, I think you're probably right, honestly, you know, but yeah, I mean, but like I said, I mean, honestly, that is kind of funny.

That's pretty good.

That's pretty good Barnum.

He did a good job there, you go, you know, old Phineas.

But you know, he also taught ab how to work a crowd and you know, get the crowd worked up into a frenzy and super excited about you know what they were about to experience.

I mean, really, he like brainwashed this child and trained him like a puppy.

I have a quote here that pretty much sums it up that says that he groomed him for life in the public eye, which I think is a pretty good way of saying it, you know.

But on the flip side of that, he would end up being again one of the most the richest acts that he has, you know, Barnum.

Barnum did pay him very handsomely.

You know, he didn't he didn't treat him badly in that regard, you know.

But again that's Chris Genie thing.

I mean, how much is your soul worth?

You know, it's like how much abuse?

How much is it worth for the abuse?

Like, he keeps giving me a big piece, he keeps treating me like shit, but he does give me a big paycheck.

M Like, how how much of this kind take well?

And one issue that just is across the board for all of these performers is that they would work extremely grueling hours.

Oh yeah, with tons of travel schedules.

So I mean it could be months before they are back home again with their respective families, and then they're working you know, twelve hour days, multiple shows a day with barely any breaks in between.

So I mean, the working conditions are you know, akin to slave labor if the money wasn't so good.

I mean, I mean how it sounds though, when they're could have time to spend that money.

It sounds like they're hours, like they'll give any free time.

Pretty much, you know, and so and then, of course, in the case of Charlie, you know, with him, I mean, gosh, he was basically a full blown adult by the age of seven.

He was, you know, drinking and you know, he was boothing and booming and all the stuff.

You know, he really had no childhood.

What better way to keep him complacent than to give him boozed.

Up absolutely, which is horrible.

Can you imagine?

Yeah?

Horrible?

Yeah, for like a seven year old sitting there like, drink up kid, are you going to be on the show tomorrow?

And he's so tiny?

Like what this kid took half a shot and was probably fucking black out drunk.

Like shoot, I'm kind of jealous, hustly because it takes me a bit.

I'd be a cheaper be a cheaper bill at the bar, right.

I mean, my god, how much you know what I gotta and nobody ever answered that question for me, like how much did he drink?

And what did it take to get him there?

Because that was I mean, I just just think that's fascinating, just saying.

Oh, yeah, you know, just said and they're like, you know, that is a really good question.

Like maybe that's why, like it was so cheap to sitting there, Like all I gotta do is buy him a beer.

He's it was up and ready to go.

I mean, right, you might as well drink all the time because you can afford it, for sure.

I mean, dealing with p.

D.

Barnum, I'm probably drinking all the time too, So I totally get it.

You know, that's that's fair.

But no, he he lived a really decent life.

Well he did die at the age of forty five that you know, in the eighteen hundreds.

That's not crazy, especially for somebody that had some type of ailments, you know, I think, yeah, they definitely thought he had some type of dwarfism obviously, you know, but you know, for him, that was a decent long life.

Yeah, that's pretty good.

It's a pretty good run.

Like I'm pretty sure they probably thought he was gonna die a lot sooner than that.

So, yeah, absolutely, And you know, one of the again the kicker I mentioned earlier is that, you know, Pt.

Barnum had his American Museum, which was filled not just with the performers, but you know, it's basically an audities display, you know, a pretty much and you know you can It's nice now because we live in a world where like, like there's an audity shop twenty minutes from me, and that's cool, Like I can go in it for free, and you know, everywhere, you know, so that's but back then that was definitely not the case.

And so you know, he'd have collections of strange and unusual objects, and some of them, of course, he would create on his own.

I think probably in this community, the most well known is the Fiji mermaid.

Yep, the monkey's head and the back half of a fish.

Yeah, you know, which is one of my favorite things ever.

I love a good Fiji mermaid.

Good, a good callback in house of a thousand corpses of that.

There is there is fish boy.

Yeah, ye, fish boy.

There you go, the next evolution of the Fiji mermaids.

Fish Boy.

That's pretty good, you know.

But these gaffes were kind of a big hit too.

But again, most of them I would say were completely made up or or you know whatever.

But people aren't going to ask questions.

You're going in there to get entertained.

They're gonna sit there and paying money and look at that thing.

Oh my god, I saw this thing though, was super weird and tell their friends and then not think about it again.

Yeah, and so you know, but one person in particular, I'll bring up here one of the performers.

You know, they really enjoyed this type of stability, and you know, I think that once you hear his story, you'll kind of understand why.

So George constant Constantine Constantinus, I think, is how it said Constantinas.

That's what we're going with.

George, or otherwise known as the tattooed man.

Oh so that's interesting because I have one of my performers is not as a tattooed woman.

Oh okay, we're going to talk.

We'll talk about that.

I'll share George, and then you share the woman because that is even rarer than the tattooed by all means.

So George, you know, he was one of the ones who would live again a very lavish lifestyle.

Let me tell you something.

This man made one thousand dollars a week.

Jesus, now listen, we're talking.

This is like roughly the eighteen forties to the eighteen fifty or so.

Ridiculous, Like I barely make a thousand dollars a week now in twenty twenty five, like, and I have not lived in large.

Yeah, exactly.

Like this guy's making a thousand books in the eighteen hundreds, two hundred years ago, Like holy shit, how much is that?

Like fifteen foul?

Like goddamn, it's up there.

Yeah, it's big.

So I mean, he was really living it up.

But he, you know, like he was covered head to toe completely entirely in tattoos except for I believe it was the soles of his feet and his some spots on his ears.

So he had a story that you know, went along with it.

Not only was it unusual for somebody to be completely covered in tattoos at that time, but you know, again, his story was just completely shocking.

During his career as a pirate, him and a few other men were captured and held hostage.

As punishment.

During their capture, they were tattooed on their entire body.

George said, that this whole process took about three months in total, and he would eventually escape and flee to the US, so something like like a stable home, you know, with the American Museum.

I mean that's super appealing to somebody like him who hadn't been largely nomadic before that point.

So yeah, I mean his tattooing sessions now people call, you know, they question his story a lot, but you know, that's what the man said happened, So who I.

Mean, it has to fantastic story helps the sell the excitement.

It was just that I got tattoos that it's kind of like, oh, well that's cool.

Let me say I was kidnapped by pirates and they tattooed me maybe all a stick ink.

It was actually kind of cool.

Actually I had to pay anything.

Well, I believe his story.

That was his story before he joined up with Barnum, when he was kind of doing his own thing, so like that was an original creation from him.

But then people would kind of notice that.

So every single tattoo he said did have its own story to it.

And it's like, well, if it's not as a punishment, like why would they tattoo you and then tell you like oh this means this, you know, seems it seemed a little strange.

You know, fish meant well, you are going to get tattoos.

And this one is about that time I had I saw this mermaid And this one's about that time I found this cool treasure books of like Clyde Barker's Books of Blood, but tattoos.

Yeah, pretty much.

And the fact that he remembered each one, damn each one.

Each one of them.

But you know, I'm not gonna show on the guy too much for being as wealthy, fucking rich as he was.

And he was one of the richest men again next to General Tom Thumb, you know, for just having tattoos, right, we're just having tattoos.

Crazy.

When he died, half of his fortune went to other performers that he knew of that were not being paid nearly as much as he was.

So yeah, so a very a very generous man for the most point.

He did like his expensive jewelry and stuff like that, but he was very generous with his fellow his fellow weirdos.

So that is, you know, I thought worthy worthy of telling.

And let me be clear about this.

The people that were not making as much money as people like this were the people that were I mean, I have to say it, but were soft.

The people with cognitive disabilities, the people people of color weren't making as much as some of the other people were.

You know, you've got to understand they were definitely taking advantage where they could, and.

You know, like, they're not going to pay uh, someone who's not white or something like that, like the same amount as they pay anybody else.

You know, so yeah, absolutely not or you know, again, somebody that's just too disabled to understand that they are only getting the bare minimum.

You know.

Yeah, they're saying they're like, oh yeah, let's give he's not going to know how much he's making, and it's kind of like, well you should still pay him ways worth again.

Yeah, so I mean, very very predatory.

So while we can say, oh my god, well that one man was making a thousand dollar a week, so Barnum can't be that bad.

Well, I mean again.

There's like fifteen other people that weren't making shit.

Evil Geenie.

Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was just based upon how many people want to go see.

It depends on how much you get paid and how much exposure you get.

Oh yeah, absolutely, a lot of people.

Everyone went to go see the tattooed man.

No one went to go see the person with two fingers.

So they get they only get the shit into the deal or something like that, So.

They like get one dollar for each finger.

Exactly, which is still pretty decent for like eighteen hundreds.

I guess I think that's like a normal day's work or something, but still kind of shitty.

It's really everybody else.

He should be able to outfit his two rings and no, I I definitely.

So let's hear about your tattooed woman.

Okay, So a little bit of background for the tattoo the lighties nearly eighteen hundreds, when stress and side shows were all the rage.

Another brand of freak rosa problem is tattooed ladies.

As name suggest, these performers were women who had a wide away array of tattoos praying across their body, which was considered freakish at the time.

Oh dear, they're covered in ink.

How scandalous.

So according to the ink to Ladies Tattooed Women of the Victorian Era by Lauren Krout from the Daily Art Magazine website, practically all the cases were of the women's own volition, and they had manufactured backstories which often made to justify why they were tattooed.

So most of the time they just got their own tattoos and then just made up bullshit stories about how they got them because people pay more for cool stories.

And a lot of these included.

A lot of these stories, and I quote, there was often a kind of victimhood, a life or death situation, like being a hostage of Native Americans toward the ends of the nineteenth century, when conflicts of indigenous peoples were still fresh in the public psyche, it wasn't us versus the mentality that played on the audience's sympathy, so end quote.

So a lot of these stories that these women told involved a lot of like, hey, I was kidnapped and I was forced to have these tattoos, or I had to do this because of one thing or another's life or death.

I would die I didn't get these tattoos done to get some of the audience sympathy like, oh, you poor woman, how could this happen to you.

I can't believe they did this to you, and that you know, got more money that way.

And also there is eroticism to a lot of these shows with these women because since their whole deal is that they had to show off the tattoos, they dressed not as modestly as women at the time.

They wore like short strappy dresses and had shorts that shut off their legs, and they showed off their upper chests and arms and all that, and that definitely gathered some crowds to see that because that was like an excuse to see ankles at the time.

And another thing unless that a lot of these women were perceived as independent because and I quote from this article, tattoos imply the opposite of what society of any time period dictated obedience, modesty, and chastity.

Instead, the tattoo lady could be seen as a flouting convention, as flouting conventional ideas, and that always includes sex.

They're sitting there by these women get all these tattoos, I bet you they put out.

That's what all those men were thinking.

That's at the time they're sitting there.

They're like, I might get lucky because this girl has tattoos.

I bet she's into the freaking stuff.

And think of like a Victorian englishman thinking that of like his monocle and fucking mustache.

I mean people still think that the more things change, the more they say the same.

There's still a bunch of that's still in the public zeygeist for better or worse, Sir, that that British Man is still to this day here that lineage has not stopped.

So.

One of the more popular tattooed women is Nora healthen brand as described from Norah Hilton Brandt's page on the Tattoo Archived website.

This is the story that she normally told about her tattoos, because she was tattooed head from toe.

She was a very from what I've read, kind of a masculine looking woman.

She of German descent, and she had like all these cool tattoos on her people.

She was like the really big I think, one of the very big early ones, the ones that actually gained prominence in the scene because she was part of Pt.

Barnum's show at the time.

But a story she usually told was that she and her father, who was a tattoo artist or kidnapped by Sitting Bull in his people, the Sitting Bull of History, and about to and they were about to be killed, but then Sitting Bulls saw the tattoos on her dad.

He was like, that's some cool shit.

I want you to a tattooed my men, and the dad's like, sure, if you don't kill us, now tattooed your guys.

And while he was doing it, one of them accused him of trying to poison them, and then as punishment, sitting bulls like, hey, you have to tattoo your daughter now, I want her covered in tattoos.

So they tied her to a tree and for like six hours a day over the course of a year, he put sixty five designs on her and she was eventually rescued.

I think he died because the sitting bull and his men got tired of him or he I think, oh no, no, he broke his tattoo needle and they got mad, so they burnt him alive because they really went that sick ink and they're like, shit, well, if you're not going to give us the cool tattoos, we don't want you anymore.

And then she was saved, and then she became part of pt Bartum shows and was like, oh, yes, look at her.

She survived the she survived the Indians, and she got all this sink ink.

So their story is like horribly drenched in races.

Oh yeah, no, and that's a very common trend.

It's all at one of these women just had like they're like, oh, I was kidnapped by Native Americans, though they would use the appropriate language at the time, which I'm not going to use her, and they tattooed me.

And it's like, wow, that's a weird punishment because that's some that's some pretty cool tattoos you got.

Like they're like, we're going to give you some tattoos and send you on your way, Like, okay, that'll teach you.

Yeah.

Another story she told, though that was only one, there's many.

Here's the other one that I really saw a couple of times was that her father was a tattoo artist in New York City who honed his skills by practicing on her, with her being his human canvas.

So he was like doing tattoos and nobody wanted to practice.

He'll just call her in and be like, give me a spot of you that I haven't tattooed yet.

I want to try his new technique or try his new picture, and just tattooed on her, which also not great.

That's also kind of fucked up.

But of course both these stories weren't true.

According to the book The Tattooed Lady by Amelia klem Ostroude, I want to say her last name was, I'm sorry, miss pronounced that.

I was able to verify this by found it online, so take over gran AsSalt.

I think it's probably in there.

But Nora was actually a London a Londoner born in poverty.

In the eighteen fifties, she met Martin hillde Brandt, who was often touted to be either her husband or her father, depending on who they were talking to, although they had no relation, and he was a tattoo artist and did all the work on her voluntarily, so she just got the tattoos from her boyfriend basically, or whoever.

She just made up all this shit about yeah, I was kidnapped my day for Americans, or yeah, my dad used to just take me like to the tattoo chair on Saturdays and just tattoo on me or whatever.

So but yeah, you know, so she was more of a prominent one.

She was pretty prominent until other tattooed ladies started popping up, and then she kind of lost her status as the tattooed lady.

Oh okay, then the market came over saturated.

I think it was pretty Uh, all the limited tattoos were like, hey, I can make money off this, and I'm like, yeah, why not?

Fuck it?

Oh my guess.

So I mean the climate of things in you know, when it came to these freak shows, they definitely started shifting.

As early as the eighteen sixties, things known as what we call now quote ugly laws started popping up all over the place.

So these were interesting because depending on the area, it could make it tougher or easier on the performers.

For instance, in San Francisco, there was a law in eighteen sixty seven that deemed it illegal for quote, any person who was diseased, maimed, mutilated, or deformed in any way so as to be an unsightly or disgusting object to expose himself herself to the public view.

So basically, if your ugly, stay the fucking side.

My god what they said.

However, they made exceptions for quote freak shows, but this was because it was viewed as you know, people in the scientific communities could come along and potentially study these people for future game.

But of course it was just probably these people were paying them off, right, paying off big government in order to be able.

But because you could only be outside if you were deformed, if you were performing, of course, this created it worked the opposite way.

It made a big boom in the exposure of these people because they weren't allowed to go anywhere if they weren't putting on a show.

The only way I could be social is if I'm on the job, right.

You know, because I mean again, just to reiterate, there were and you know, you guys have to understand, there were no social programs at the time to financially support these people if they did not have family members that could take care of them.

And I'm not even talking like parents, because their parents die before they do.

I mean like siblings or or god, you know, somehow they have children right in their in their position, depending on you know, what's what their deal is, you know, I mean, there really was no way for them to support themselves other than begging, and no way for them to be a part of society other than being a part of these shows.

Yeah, that's the only way they can make money and make a living is because they have no other options.

Yeah, and so you know, so the battle kind of you know, raged on a bit.

And as we kind of turn into the nineteen hundreds, society kind of started looking at this differently.

They, like I said before, they kind of started feeling bad about exploiting these people.

Scientific innovation was becoming a thing, and so as people were kind of understanding these people's ailments more and more, it kind of took the magic out of their story.

Right.

It wasn't amazing, This wasn't a missing link.

This was just somebody who was very, very sick, you know which, then there are people are like, well, shit, now I feel bad, but they still didn't want to see them because when Freaks came out.

By Yes Routing back in the thirties, everyone got mad that there's freaks in the movie.

And they're like, we quote unquote freaks in the movie.

And they're like, oh, how dare you show this shit on the silver screen and this man the.

Family friendly theater?

Yeah, I want to say, how dare you show people?

Right?

That's awful?

No, I wanted to kind of touch on Freaks a little bit because it did have a massive impact then and even still to this day.

Oh no, I would argue as a bigger impact now as far as like, you know, how we accept these kind of things absolutely.

So, you know, Todd Browning's Freaks released in nineteen thirty two, and if you have not seen it, you fucking need to see it.

Look, there's people really good movies so good.

There's people that are like, oh man, I hate black and white movies are just so cringey and stuff.

No, listen, watch Freaks.

Like, if you don't watch any of them, watch Freaks.

It's really good.

But basically, oh, go ahead, oh I was.

And the fact they actually use performers from side shows and free shows and that it's just fantastic and they do right.

These people are the cast is made up of people who were celebrity performers in their own right, you know, who were actively living this lifestyle.

I mean, really, you didn't.

You didn't have a lot of that.

I mean it's almost it's almost documentary in a way if it wasn't for the storyline, you know.

But you know the concept of the film, if you haven't seen it, it follows this this circus, and it follows these trapeze artists that joined the circus and one of the there they're a couple and the woman of the couple of the man.

They kind of have the scheme going and they intend on having her Mary basically, what was pretty much I mean, let's be honest, General Tom thumb right, and.

Yeah, essentially, yeah, I mean I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be.

It was uh, what was his name, tiny Hans?

Yeah, he's just these.

Lit His name was Hans in the movie.

I don't know, let me look it up real quick.

Actually his name might be Hans.

I mean again, these are real performers, you know.

And were they playing themselves in the movie.

I don't know.

Maybe they weren't.

They might not have been.

But while you look it up, so you don't basically have a plot for her to marry him, and then they were going to kill him for his money because he makes a ton of money and they do not as simple regular people as Treppee's artists.

His name was Harry Earl's, part of the Doll Family, which was quartette of sibling entertainers with dwarfism from Germany.

Oh okay, well even more interesting.

Well, and that's the thing, you know, this is the film that keeps on giving.

You can go down the rabbit hole and then we all asked and who they were, and we'll be lost in it for hours, and no, it is.

It's very good.

Some of the you know again, they're all different performers.

I think my favorite scene is the the guy with no no arms and legs, the black guy with arms lege and like, yes, I love watching he rolls up a cigarette and smokes.

It is impressive.

And it's amazing, but but not that.

It's when everything's kind of come into a climax and he's fucking crawling through on the ground with a fucking knife in his mouth.

Yeah, I'm sitting what was he going to do with that knife?

I bet he was gonna be cool whatever he is.

He proved that he was adapt with a cigarette.

I can only imagine what kind of what kind of tricks he has with that.

That's what I'm saying, right, And we don't get to see it.

I mean, this is nineteen thirty two and so it's to us it's not a graund film.

But at the time this is like pre Hays Code, right, so it was considered obscene.

This was Yeah, this was a disgusting film.

I mean, for the time, people were absolutely appalled.

It was banned in different countries from being shown.

And this isn't even what we have now is not even the full cut of the movie.

This is after it has been edited to shit, like we will never be able to see unfortunately, the original.

But yeah, people were in a fucking upward and you know, one of the reasons is because again the culture at the time in the nineteen thirties, and it definitely shifted for these groups.

They weren't huge celebrities like they were in the eighteen forties.

You know.

Now they are medical anomalies and people just don't simply don't want to look at them.

You know, this is when discrimination, you know, definitely became its peak.

And the whole movie is sympathetic towards these people.

Oh yeah, they're not the monsters.

They not like, oh look this, look at this carl of freaks going around and statching people up and killing them and stuff.

It's like, no, these are the victims in the movie.

They're the ones that are being wrong.

They're the heroes.

Yeah yeah, And and people didn't and people at the time did not like that at all.

How dare they go after the blonde white girl?

Well exactly, And then you know, not even ten years later we have Germany over there fucking dipping their toes, not dipping their toes, dipping the whole body into eugenics and shit.

So I just, I mean, this was a tough time.

No, that's that's a whole subject for a whole other podcast.

You know, this was just there.

I mean, to show these people any type of sympathy at all was just it was just absolutely grotesque.

And then of course I guess that the scenes too.

I mean you would have to before, you would have to go on your own accord and go pay to see these people.

Now this is a film back in the day where you might have one choice of one film that you can watch as your family, and it's the only entertainment that you have.

And now you're forced to sit and look at these people.

I mean, like and it's funny because the other half of the stuff you can see is probably just porn because a lot of old like early films and stuff like that.

But it wasn't for like Hollywood stuff that it's just like old like penny films.

You watched that was just or go to the theater and go watch some fucking like I've seen the people with deformities.

Yeah, that's a gentlemanly thing to do, you know.

So it definitely made a big bang when it came out, and still does you know again to this day it is very topical even still oh you know, it's it's a fantastic movie and it aged gracefully.

Well.

One thing that's interesting about it is that it's considered like, let me go check on this article real quick, like, what do they call it?

They call it a horror film.

Yeah, like the drama horror film.

And I don't actually think it's a horror film.

I think it's more of like a tragedy, like a thriller almost.

Yeah, I mean, or you know, maybe even some type of mystery where you're in on the mystery.

Oh yeah, it's like a drama drama tragedy mystery almost, And it's like a noir even like you know, in early noir, because the only horrific aspect about it is like the end where all the performers go and give the bad guys or trust desserts.

And yeah, it's shot kind of like a horror film that way, but that's like the good thing that's happening.

The heroes are getting the bad guys.

It's a revenge film.

It's a classical retche film, and and you know you're rooting now as you watch it.

You're booting for, of course, the victims to take the revenge.

You're not sad that the bad guys get their come up in and.

They're treated as people.

They're a family in the movie.

They're like loving each other.

They care about each other.

Either are like the sympathetic people, the ones that aren't sympathetic, or the quote unquote normal people that are taking advantage of them.

So yeah, I mean, just huge concepts for nineteen thirty two.

Let's unheard of, almost like holy shit, I mean rounds and burnt at the State.

No, but really, though his career was you know, unfortunately right.

Yeah, it is very sad that it wasn't appreciated at the time, but you know, we definitely still appreciate it, especially because it is actually you know, it's it's not public domain yet almost.

Yes, getting there, I think.

Yeah, So despite how much it didn't like it, they kept the copyright on it for a while.

So someone thought I was like, no, no, wait, wait thirty years you're going to make some money off this.

Well, honestly, probably because they didn't want a seen Let's be.

Real, Oh yeah too, put in the salt lines.

Right, I mean it tried to get buried, and then it just kind of got revitalized actually within horror communities with people that were finding it.

I believe it wasn't like one of the midnight movies from back in the day showed like midnight.

It probably was yeah yeah, they're something.

Like, oh, this is going to be kind of kind of an odd, weird movie, and people saw it like this is actually pretty damn good.

I heard about this because nineteen thirty two, where has it been exactly?

You know, So do your due diligence and go seek it out and check out.

I think you probably could probably find it on YouTube for free.

Let's be real, no one, I'll go ahead and check it out right now and tell you where, tell you exactly where to fine freaks, I'll.

Do as solid.

It's very it's very good.

Yep, YouTube, Amazon, Prime, Google, you can rent it for many of those places.

Is it on TV.

Though it might not be on two B Yeah might.

No, it's not availble tob but you can you can rent it from any of like streaming service They all have it now, Unlike the nineteen thirties, we have we can watch it anywhere you fucking want.

Right, I mean, you know, and honestly, for if you're somebody who doesn't like black and white movies and you watch this, immediately come tell me what you thought, because it's amazing.

Also, if you don't walk, if you don't like black and white movies, you're boring.

I'm sorry.

There's so many of them that are just genuinely so good.

I'm sitting there and I'm just alienating a whole part of the audience right now.

You man, I mean, I get it.

I used to be that person.

Very I was very young when I was that person.

But I mean I grew up on black and white movies.

So you can actually go on the Internet archive and watch it for free if you.

Still choose love the Internet archive.

So there you go.

Go check out the Internet Archive and you don't have to pay anything.

Just watch it and I'll post you a part of history.

I'll post it to the Patreon Patreon dot com slash Wednesday's Talk.

I'll post a link to it for you guys to go, so you can pay me money if you feel really terrible about it, and then click on the link.

You know, I'll do the hard I'll do the heavy lifting for you.

There you look, Asher's is looking out for you.

I care about you, guys, and I want you to watch good movies.

Exactly most of us has to.

It has to reach a quota of everybody watching it so we all know it's good.

So you know, looking into the future.

Of course, this really it damage.

I mean whatever was left of like the Freak show community Freaks completely destroyed.

It's for real, it did.

Everybody was like, this has got to fucking stop.

And and then, like I said, the introduction of things like well, eugenics and World War two, because it wasn't listen y'all, and that's an episode I'm going to cover soon.

It wasn't just Germany practicing that shit.

Us well, it was us that hired all of their people after the war.

But Japan, everybody thinks that the Nazis were so bad, You guys fucking don't have a clue.

What was that one movie about the Japanese camps where they just tortured people and the questions, right're actual.

They're getting ready to come up with a new one it's called Unit seven thirty one, which is based off of the Japanese Unit seven seven thirty one where they did human experiments on people.

I got creative, so excited.

Oh man, so creative, so excited to watch the movie.

But if you guys are interested, they do have Men behind the Sun.

That's the one I was taking of Men behind the Sun.

Behind the Sun is it's It's one of those hardcore stream movies.

Don't watch it unless you can handle it.

But I think watch at least once because you have to understand the gravity of what was going on, and then another one if you can sit through it.

I personally enjoy it is Philosophy of a Knife.

I've been waiting to watch that one, but I haven't checked it out yet.

Four and a half hours long.

It is fantastic, half.

Documentary and it does come in two parts if you buy the DVD, which good luck by In the DVD, it's like a hundred bucks.

Don't have to really want it.

But come over to my house.

I have it.

I didn't pay a hundred bucks for it.

I'll tell you that.

We'll check it out together.

But it's half documentary, half reenactment, so and then also actually okay, so a quarter documentary, quarter reenactment, and a quarter of just shots of its snowing outside in black and white.

Oh if you love that that's in there.

But it really is.

It is genuinely good.

I showed it one time at one of my Halloween parties.

It's fucking shocking.

It's got some of the sickest shit you'll ever see.

But the documentary parts of it, I mean, the fact of the matter is that these reenactments are based off of real human experience that they were doing at that time.

And so if you are disgusted by what you're seeing on screen, will you're supposed to be because it's fucking horrible.

But anyway, I want to cover that on its own episode one day because it just it blows my goddamn mind that nobody ever talks about it.

People won't forget about it, People don't want to bring it up.

Talking about the Nazis, like I said that, like, like, oh man, they were so hard.

Yeah, the fact that we knew Japan, we probably feel like, well, we don't have.

Room to talk, give them a little leeway.

We did kind of, we did kind of take out two of your cities maybe maybe if you don't talk about our transgressions, we won't talk about your transgressions.

Well, we actually did hire the Japanese scientists instead make.

Sure we had everybody because we don't wan Russia to have.

They got absolutely right, they got they got off completely scott free.

We said come work for us, and they did.

Operation It was called yeah, oh yeah, so that's I mean, that's a whole other anyway, another name, but just to give you a little tease there you go for future episodes.

But anyway, so again that's kind of you know, people were just like, this has got to fucking stop.

We're not doing this anymore.

And you know, slowly but surely, you know, these these communities were kind of we do a while that happens while the the performers now had no means of making an income.

Something good did come of it and not ended up being social security, you know, really absolutely it was I mean, you had all these people now that could not support themselves.

That's right, they couldn't do.

It wasn't the only you know, the only thing getting into it, but you know, like women working during the war and stuff like that, they also couldn't really have jobs, right, but they were had to, you know, just a lot of people struggling at the same time definitely contributed to it, or I.

Added into that, which is great.

So that's the best thing to come out of.

It, exactly.

And while we do definitely need some reform in that regard, I mean, my god, you guys, I mean, I don't think you understand.

Some people living on Social Security right now makes like nine hundred bucks a month a month, you know, so we have a long way to go.

It's still better than what it was before Social Security.

Yeah, have some money than no money, but I would rather have enough money to you know.

To live.

Yeah, yeah, that's nice, you know, that would be cool idea.

It's super interesting, you know.

But now the the Freak Show is kind of it kind of it kind of comes back a little bit, but not in the way that you guys would expect nowadays.

Nowadays it's more so sideshow acts where people are doing things which were things that were popular at the time, but not nearly as as you know, exploitative, as as the people with deformity.

So it's not so much come to see the little man, it's more you know, fire breathers, swords, wah.

People unusual skills like magicians or illusionist shows like The Girl the Gorilla Acts where a girl they use like trickery to make a girl turn to a gorilla or something like that.

So just a lot of fun things.

Now it's kind of like it's like a just a cool thing to go see people showcase talents they have that you don't normally see every day.

Like you said, fire eaters or swollowers, fast pece artists, all that kind of stuff.

Oh gah.

And I mean and sometimes they you know, take a little bit further, like I love when contortionists go on to like be featured in movies and stuff is like monsters or you know whatever, because they can do amazing things that their body.

Oh yeah, you can't you physically, nobody else can do.

Uh.

They can fit into a box or something and they'll revel out and it's like, oh right, so monster.

It's very unsettling to us.

And it works, you know, in those spaces.

Or they become dancers that can do like just crazy you know, all gosh, here's my oh my gosh, one of my guilty pleasures.

You guys, Me and my daughter we have a thing that we do we watch religiously America's got.

Oh man, that is a guilty pleasure into it too.

It is such it's all fucking scripted, but genuinely, the people on there, like they are people, and you've been follow and I have followed people from from the show.

You know that it's never anybody that I want to win, but they they do have like modern day side show people on there, and so I think that that's super neat.

I'm here for those kinds of performances because I just think they're really interesting and I would I would pay to go see them.

I know, a big one nowadays too.

Or the body modifiers, like the ones that like put hooks into their bodies and stuff like that.

That's oh yeah, oh yeah, that's a big one, like basically paint pain tolerances.

And of course, like we all know like the Lizard Man, right, he's.

Oh yeah, and the cat guy too.

Cat guy, right.

We know people that are you know, they're definitely you know, messing with their physical bodies surgically or what have you in order to become something else, which I think I wouldn't do it.

And they do.

That's cool as hell.

Yeah, I think it's really cool, you know, for I just think it's cool to have that kind of passion about something like for you, I hope I.

Have like passion like that one day for something, for anything.

Yeah, even if it's like just getting out of bed in the morning.

God damn.

Yeah.

I mean, so you know it is, so we've definitely, like I said, come a long way because it's not so much you know, people deformities and things like that.

I will tell you we had this might get me canceled, but we had a set of conjoined twins locally and they died, but people knew who they were, like they were again just still local celebrities in their right, and there were not because that they were performing or anything like that, but because they're fucking two people that are combined together wucking around.

I mean, that's fascinating.

I mean you see every day it's kind of like you know, you always hear about it and never people really get to see it.

So it's something interesting.

It's super interesting human curiosity.

And of course when they die, I mean that's even you know, when these conjoined twins, because they're still conjoined twins to this day, and when they die, we're like, well, like what happened, like because one dies and then what the other one has to die?

Or like what does that look like?

Do they have to just live with their decease but buddy until they die anyway, So that was the whole thing that I followed.

That was really That was during the pandemic.

They had passed, and I actually I really wanted to go to their funeral.

And I know that's weird.

I know that seems so fucking weird, but like, I don't know, also is it weird?

I didn't go.

I didn't, But when the fuck out of my life am I ever going to be able to go to a funeral of a conjoined twin?

I feel like people go to people's funerals not knowing them all the time, especially if they're like a celebrity or something.

A bunch of people will go and paid respects, not that they ever met the person, because they respected the person well.

And it was it was a I mean it was a public thing.

I mean it was very public.

Right.

They were like, oh, come on a funeral, and I was like, oh, okay, open invite.

I mean like like selling tickets, right, this is like a pde barnum, like come come see the corpse.

You look and join twins five dollars a pop, but you don't.

Kind of wouldn't even be mad.

If they did.

I'd be like, I get it, you know, someone especially for it.

Only if the guy is dressed up like an eighteen hundred shoulder.

Yes.

Yeah, if you're going to commit, you better commit.

I want like the megaphone.

I want you to be standing on a chair.

I want you to like just put your heart and soul into it or else I'm not gonna go.

I'm not gonna get there.

Yeah.

Else, I'm like, no, no, not enough, You're not You're only half assing, kid, Yeah, go all the way.

I mean, because like, listen, if I had some really super cool ailment, I'm type one diabetic, is that interesting to you guys?

You want to come?

I would be back at eighteen hundreds see me.

Shoot at my insulin or check my blood sugar.

You know, you know, if I had something like that, I would I'm like, go bigger, go home, person, So I would fucking you better make a spectacle out of my fucking funeral.

Like I'd be so upset if you didn't, you know.

I mean, nowadays, you can probably do, Like, if you have something like that, you could probably do it yourself, like TikTok and YouTube and all that stuff.

You can become your own personal manager for all those kind of things.

You absolutely couldn't at that point, Like is it exploitation?

Which is to say, like in some of these situations, you know, with like the tattooed man making a thousand dollars a week, is that really exploitation?

I mean, he's obviously there, he's obviously getting a benefit.

In his case, maybe not so much because I mean his obviously there's some choice there, or at least probably there was some choice there in stories made.

Yeah, I'm sure he is.

He just got some tattoos, and it's like could be a lot who or my said pires did it?

So he looked out, he had a passion that he looked out that it made a bunch of money.

Right, But like did general Tom Thumb?

Did he feel like he was being exploited?

I guess that comes down to like personal preference, because we can't speak for him and say, yeah, was if he didn't feel like he was like just.

Right now, As a matter of perspective, I guess it depends on one I think is case by case.

I don't think we can say a blanket term for all of them, like oh yeah, they're all exploited or they all weren't exploited.

It's like it's like depending on who the person is depends on how much they're exploited or how much of those exploitation I feel, yeah, I mean through each one, one by one, you know, we can.

I think that like we we have a duty to speak for people that don't have a voice.

So like obviously the the you know, the mentally impaired, you know, individuals in this side.

I mean, someone has to has to advocate for them.

However, the people with the voice, I mean, I think we do a lot to kind of overstep those boundaries and speak up too much for them.

You know, we have to be careful to make sure because when you do that to somebody like you are also you know, kind of and fantalizing them as a person, like they like.

They speaking for them when they don't ask, or if you don't even ask what their opinion about it is, you can just go ahead and speak for them is kind of just as bad the of.

What it is, right because you're basically saying Oh, well, you're your feelings still don't matter, and I'm going to make that decision for you.

And it's like you can't you.

Can't talk for yourself, Let me talk for you.

It's like what the fuck?

Like, Yeah, that doesn't y y'all got to check yourself a little bit with that, because I do see people that are just well too heavy on it.

Ask them, Hey, do you mind if I advocate for you?

Like I know it comes from shirt base, but yeah, or something like that.

So there'd be like, hey, before I have before I go on my soapbox, do you mind if I go on my soapbox?

Yeah?

I mean, so you know, there's, like I said, there's definitely bad parts to it, but there's definitely good parts to it as well.

I mean again, some of these people, they would have never ever lived the lifestyles they live without something like this.

So it's that gray area.

Nothing's black and white.

There's always a little bit like all it bleeds through, it's all gray is it's nothing is nothing in this Like in this case, it's like good and bad at the same time, existing parallel to each other depending on what aspects you focus on.

Right, And I'm and I'm just a woman living in twenty twenty five, you know, privileged America, right, with a roof over my head and food in my belly.

And you know, I can't speak for these people, and they're.

Blights podcasts talking about these people, right.

You know, it's not any type of authority to tell you, guys, how you should think, feel, or whatever about about these folks.

But you know, I do heavily implore you to learn about them.

I mean, if you thought that this episode was interesting, go out of your way again.

There's hundreds of these people that you can find and their stories and you know, not just their made up stories.

I mean, by now, you know we've done a lot of work and learning about them.

I didn't talk about like the Elephant man.

You know, he was a big one, but you know, I just I really didn't know how to feel about that one.

Yeah, there's a movie about that one, you guys can go check out and research after that.

Like, basically, I hope that this episode will interest you enough to go to your own research and make your own conclusions about all this.

We can't tell you how to think.

No, no, that's not our job here, but you know, I do think that it's a neat topic to talk about.

I think it's super interesting, you know.

And learn something I don't know about and tell me about it so I can learn something.

You, my teacher, watch Freaks and tell me what you thought, because I know you're gonna love it.

Yeah, I know you're gonna think it's the best movie ever.

And if you guaranteed.

Asher says that you are going to guarantee to love this movie for the rest of your life.

But the rest of your life, You're like, holy should I should have watched this sooner?

What was I thinking?

Regret?

You're gonna regret for the rest of your life he didn't watch it sooner and probably smile into a depression.

You're gonna be like, oh, man, well have I been doing with my life?

And you know what, that's whose fault is that?

On your right?

On your death?

Like do you have any final words?

And you're gonna be like, I wish I watched Freaks sooner?

Yeah, I wish I watched it back Odell was younger.

That's a weird last word, but all right, put it.

Write it down.

You should say.

Freaks the twenty eighteen movie, like.

To add nineteen thirty two after that, so they don't get confused.

Very good point.

Well, I just learned about this other movie, Freaked, and I'm so excited to watch it.

Oh, you all love it.

I feel like you're gonna love it.

In fact, I can't tell whenever you watch it, tell me so I can.

So you can tell me what you think about it, because I think it's going to be right up your alley.

I can't wait.

I'm super excited, which reminded me.

I want to kind of make another point.

Like I said, a lot of these people they are kind of going away, going away a little bit, but there is still a small group of individuals that do still partake in the performance, one of which I invited to come on the podcast.

Oh yep.

And I kind of learned a lot about these people from watching the show.

There was a reality show about about it.

It was about the Venice Beach Freak Show.

I think it's I think that's what it's called.

I can't remember.

It was a long time ago.

Check that show out.

It's super interesting.

Yeah, it's a reality TV show, but it's about you know, shows and their stories as people.

You know.

But I learned on that episode that they located a bearded woman, and we're super excited to get her involved because they you know, again they're they're located on Venice Beach, so again they have that home base.

They're not really traveling and stuff, and they wanted to get her to join the crew.

And what the guy was saying, I can't remember his name, it's been years since i've watched it, probably when it came out, but you know, one thing that he was saying was that she was the only bearded woman in the entire world.

And what he means by that when he says that there's plenty of women that have beards, and we're slowly normalizing that, right, And I'm not talking about you know, trans people, guys.

I'm not making a bad trans joke.

I'm saying, are women that can grow full beards, Oh yeah, you know, for various medical reasons or what have you.

But most of those women exactly, But most of those women don't grow full on beards.

They get rid of them because of this enigma.

So when he says this is the only bearded woman in the entire world, you know, I fact checked that when I started this podcast, because I just randomly thought about it one day and he's fucking right.

No other woman on the entire planet except for this one woman is the bearded woman and is out there performing as a bearded woman.

Oh so I was like, well, that's really interesting and that makes sense.

So, you know, I in her whole campaign, it's fucking beautiful because she's very feminine, you know, she's very much about you know, you know, women empowerment and you know women kind of taking and got their power and things.

And I think that's wonderful obviously as a fellow woman.

And I'm like, listen, I'd love to you know, a messager.

I find her on Instagram a messager.

I'm like, I would love to have you on the podcast.

It's super easy.

You don't have to go anywhere, you just do it at all.

We just talk for a couple hours and that's it.

This this bitch hit me with a fucking price list.

She's like, how much of my time do you want?

How much can you affords?

So for real, with you guys, I can't even be mad because listen, she literally is the only one on the entire fucking planet, so you know what, good for her and her hustle.

But it was too.

I mean it was it's more than this podcast makes in a month.

I was like, nah, never mind.

Nice thought, but again, I do appreciate people knowing what they're worth and actually like putting that out exactly.

I am super glad that she's like, hey, I'm going to have people pay me for my time because they should should you know, I.

Don't do that enough.

Like I completely get like where she like, I respect the shit out of her for it, but I was talking about I was.

Like, wait a minute, You're like, well, okay, maybe not then, like listen, I respect it doesn't mean I'm going to pay it because yeah, well, like again, that's more than this podcast makes.

That.

I mean, my goal, you know, ultimately is to make enough money to afford to have the Bearded woman on the show.

And it's going to be like the big special episode once we do it, Like, hey, guys, we get it here.

It is an ultimate episode.

So I mean, you guys need to support that.

So obviously you need to be sharing this show with every single person that you know, right because you want to hear the bearded woman on it.

You need to be, like I said, let everybody know you know where to find us.

You need to be going subscribe to the Patreon, you know, give given your funds there because we got to get this woman on I.

Know we have that's our goal.

That's our main goal right now.

It's gets a bearded woman on here.

It could be the last one ever, you know, when child dies, I mean, there may not be one that takes our play.

So it's imperative, like non negotiable.

We have to have her on here.

You have to have her on here because even if another one comes along, you know, well even if they do, I mean, they're still within their right to charge the price that they do because you're not.

There's not that many, you know, if if there are more, I mean there just isn't.

But yeah, no, they should super interesting.

So I don't know, check that show.

It might have had some issues eventually come out.

I think it did get canceled, So I don't know what that whole backstory was.

Well that leads to a little bit of thing.

I have a little bit of like a little blurb right here about the continuation of the quote unquote freak show and the television had picked up the slack of explotation.

But their reality shows that showcase alieties like, for example, by six hundred Pound Life, Little People, Big world.

Please believe it or not, that's pretty much the modern day quote unquote freak show because you're just showing off all these you know, interesting and different people and pretty much explaining them in a lot of cases, especially if like you know, my strange addictions stuff like that.

So again, the more things change, the more they kind of stayed the same.

Man, such a good point.

I didn't even think to tie that into any of it, but you're absolutely correct.

And you know, we just kind of we just eat that shut up because we're curious.

We're curious lakers, and we want to know.

I want to learn about the person that eats couches and stuff like that.

And it is like, you know, there's and they might as well be a showman.

They're like, come here and see the couch eater.

Come see the man who's the love of his car and stuff like that.

It's like it's the same shit.

Well, and so so I watch a guy on YouTube who watches My six hundred Pound Life.

So he used to be a six hundred pounder and then he got the weight loss surgery and he's been losing weight and during that journey.

He's been watching and reacting to my six hundred pound life, and I have found out some super interesting like facts about the show, like from him, like how they film the camera angle, like they will purposefully put these people into small of chairs, oh my god, and then put the camera at like the crotch level to make them look bigger.

They're trying to get the most unflattering angle right.

And then like so a lot of the episodes, like you'll notice if you ever watch it, when when they do them, they will usually like it'll go through a day in their life.

They wake up, they take a shower, they eat or whatever.

The shower scene.

They get paid more money to do a shower scene on the show, Like they pay them extra for that shot.

So right, and it's it's icky, it's horrible, right, and that's just like, oh my god.

So they're gonna do it because they're right, it can't work, so of course they're gonna say yes.

And then it's out there from millions to sea and it's like, oh my god.

And they're not getting paid enough to do it anyway.

They're not sitting there like yeah, so like they're getting just the money.

That's being offered to them, and it's like, you know, not worth the time they're putting in because the producers know they can get you away a fit.

Unfortunately.

No, and I don't think that they do pay them for the time on the show.

But I be like, they don't pay for like the surgery and stuff, you know.

Right, I bet you don't pay them royalties either.

I bet you, Like whenever it gets syndicated, they don't get any money from it.

They probably just do a one time deal.

They do a one time deal.

It's probably like five grand, and they're like, oh, that's nice, you know, and then they take it.

But then they have to do a twenty thousand dollars surgery, a fucking ten thousand dollars move all the way to a different you know state.

You know, they don't expect those things.

But then of course, well you're getting your life back, it's your freedom.

It's empowering to you.

And meanwhile the producers are making like fucking thousands upon thousands of dollars from this shit.

Right.

And there are people and you listen to their stories, they share their stories and they're fucking horrible.

I mean, these people have been there's a reason why they are where they are in life.

It's because they have been through some of the worst shit you could even imagine.

And but TLC will certainly catch them binge eating after their surgery and then throwing it all up afterwards because they look.

At them, they can't change at all, look at this shit, and I'm like, you're the fuckers.

I probably put the food in the room in the first place, assholes.

No, it's really it's really terrible.

Document Netflix of that documentary about The Biggest Loser recently, that was pretty good.

Check that out, little document.

Yes, you know, I have to check that out.

They didn't even realize that's the thing.

Yeah, I mean it just came out not that long ago, and it was The Biggest Loser is a weight loss competition that they had on TV.

And you know they talk about sucking the terrible shit, the opportunity these people, and yeah, I mean that's pretty I mean, you're right, it's right in line.

It's a modern day freak show, that's what it is.

Yep.

Just and there was get all the weirdest people that we can exploit and people that don't fit the mold of what people think their malacy is and exploit them and have people laugh at them and have people like talk about them and stuff, and it's sad and and people don't realize how fucked up it is.

I think when when they do initially because I used to watch this shit as a kid and stuff, and you're just kind of like, oh, yeah, do show stuff.

And then it is not till you realize later after the damage has been done, they're like, oh man, that that wasn't good.

That was a bad thing that happened.

It's really terrible.

And I mean it's good when like, you know, they do well or they get better whatever, and you cheer for them, but like, the thing is, it's like you don't even realize the harm that you're contributing to it by taking in that type of media.

And even if they do better, that's on TV.

Now, that is the part.

They're never going to escape that part of their life because it's going to be rerun or put on clips on YouTube and stuff like that.

They're always going to come back to it.

No matter how far along you are, people are going to go back and watch that and be like, hey, look at you when you're like this, and it's like you.

Can't escape it right, that's you now forever.

Yeah, how people are gonna remember you no matter what you do to yourself.

And that's fucked up.

It is.

It's terrible, you know, because they rarely do I mean, they'll do like a follow up here and there, I know, you know, with just different shows you know about these people, but like those aren't nearly as popular.

And there's a reason for it, because people come for the fascination.

You know.

They don't care about the success story.

They want the drama.

They want they want the failure.

That's what people want to see.

They want to see people fail.

Like it's cool when people succeed, but it's the most people want to see people like the struggles.

They want to see how hard it is to do shit, and they only care about the end result.

They want to see the journey, like the horrible journey that gets to that point.

Yeah.

But like I said, I think that when when we do consume that kind of content, we don't realize the negative aspects that we're applying to it because we might say, like, oh, well, like I want orders to get myself motivated to clean my house, or you know, I want my six round pound life to be able to, you know, lose weight or whatever to motivate me.

It makes me want to be a better person.

And it's like, but then look at that.

What you're automatically doing is looking at those people and going down better than them.

Oh you're judging them and be like, oh, I don't want to be like them, I want to be better than them.

Right, It's like they're people too, They're going through their own shit, Like usually there's a reason why they're going through this shit, and people don't normally think about that.

And you're right, and it's so ingrained to our society these type of shows because we've been growing up with them that we don't even realize how fucked up they are because that's just been how it is.

Reality TV has been a very popular thing since I was a kid back in like the nineties and stuff.

So it's like, you know, I grow fit, you don't realize how fucked up it is.

Said, there's just another form of entertainment on.

TV, right, all my show's on sitting there like, oh, hey.

Was pregnant?

Wherever the fuck it is or where the hell's on there?

Like yeah, I mean it is, yeah it is.

It is literally a shit show.

But yeah, no, I think that's a fantastic point, and I hope people kind of, you know, take take away.

But again, I think it's great when these people own it on their own, when they are in control of the situation, what people see, what they allow, you know, having boundaries like the bearded woman, you know, she she knows what it is, but but she's in control of it, you.

Know, exactly, when they had their own agency.

It's nice when they are, when they're doing it themselves and not being an object for someone else's paycheck.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, so, I mean it can't it can be a good thing.

We'll also say, shating our curiosity, you know, oh we can have both of you guys, we can't.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, you just got to do it, you know, a good way, like you have to do it a good way.

It doesn't harm too many people or any people at all.

Actually, Yeah, for sure, we can definitely do it.

There's a there's a quote unque well for lack of a better word, right way to do this, and we just had to you just have to figure out what it is.

Well, with that being said, do you have any any other final thoughts?

You'd like to share about time topic.

Well, there is one little thing.

I actually found a movie I want to recommend to people, and I was thinking, if I'm ever back on here, I'll give a little review about it.

So I'm giving some people some homework if they don't mind, okay.

But so it's based on a theme of tonight, which is circus side show, and it's a movie called how Howling six the Freaks, and the synopsis is a villainous carnival owner traps a young werewolf to include in this growing menagerie of inhuman exhibits.

So it's the sixth entry in the Howling series.

I bet you some people didn't know there's six entries.

It's actually seven entries, eight eighth centuries.

Wow.

But uh yeah, no, It's been a while since I've seen it, so I'm going to check it out and if I'm on the show again, if I have actually does that mind me being here, I will go ahead and give a little review on that next time.

A little, Small, Little Bird.

And if you go watch it, guys, please leave a comment or email me or email Ashars or in one then tell me what you thought about it so we can have that going on.

I think that sounds super Sure in the are you in the enjoin?

Think you are in the Facebook group?

Sure in the Facebook group?

Well there we go.

Yeah for sure, I'll do that.

You know.

Come check out the Young Wednesday's we Talk Weird Facebook group.

That's where all the hot discussions take place.

Go.

I might start off a freak thread in there.

You know who knows you know, a little fun thing, a little little fun things that I want to hear.

I want to hear what everyone else has to say on this topic.

Yeah, absolutely, for sure.

Well you know again, I want to thank you so much for coming on and joining me.

And oh thank you for having me.

It was a blast doing a doing a super fun topic.

Maybe we'll see it again.

Yeah for sure.

Whenever you want me here, I'll be here.

Yeah, absolutely, and I will.

Is there anything specifically that you want to shout out for people for them to follow?

Where to find other other than David Hartman's Monster Drive in Isle of Evil, Knife Texas Tromatur.

Just if you want to see some cool indie stuff or get like some events and interviews and just movies and projects coming up, go check out my website.

Gitljulian dot com a lot of stuff on there, and I'm always putting more stuff on it, so yeah.

Perfect, I will, and like I said, share that for everybody so you can check out Julian at your leisure.

Thank you perfect, Well, with that being said, guys, we'll see you back here next Wednesday,