[SPEAKER_03]: This is episode 429 of wheel bearings.

[SPEAKER_03]: I am Sam Abuel Samut from telemetry.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm revered to Baldwin from SAE Media.

[SPEAKER_04]: SAE International, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, both, actually, I'm from SAE Media and SAE International.

[SPEAKER_04]: Approved.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, from all the SAEs.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've Stephanie Bremley from SNP Global Mobility.

[SPEAKER_04]: And something else, just make up something now.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Nicole, I think is still in Europe.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, a couple of days ago, she set some photos, she texted some photos of Mercedes CLA, EV, partially camoed somewhere in Germany.

[SPEAKER_04]: So somewhere in Germany, I'll be somewhere in Germany tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I'll probably be driving this car, I think that's what I can say.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: That'll tell me what I said.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's some future date.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Steph, since you are our guest today, I want you to tell us what you drove.

[SPEAKER_01]: I drove the Corolla Cross hybrid this week and you know when I was driving it, I I've been from Michigan people right, I drove the ranking with, and thanksgiving, yeah, and a lot of how small and compact and just easy to [SPEAKER_01]: to live with it is, I found I was a little bit surprised that the Mid-Rain Tower on the highway was better than I expected it to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a little hybrid with not a ton of power, so it's not a super fast vehicle, but it handled pretty well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was enjoying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, this is kind of neat.

[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't feel like it was quite as noisy as a lot of Toyota hybrids tend to be.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, [SPEAKER_01]: Let's double check the price on this thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, maybe not.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm still trying to figure out how helps that I know about the price right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's split 35,999 dollars before the $1,450 destination fee.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's 37,449 hours.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, just for kicks, I compared the non-hybrid XLE, which is similarly equipped to the one that I have, and it was $34,810.00.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to afford the destination based on some of your hybrid was also an XLE.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was similar.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's XST.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was XST for the hybrid, but so there's similar content.

[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit different couldn't quite get it to be exactly the same when you go from hybrids to gas.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's still a, I was looking to find the gap between the two and there's still a pretty good gap between the hybrid and the non hybrid.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, that's where you're, that's where the extra, oh geez, that was more expensive that I thought came from, I think, as the gap between the hybrid and the non hybrid.

[SPEAKER_01]: And overall, it's probably, you know, if you think about an average price of, you know, $48 or $49,000, it's still well below average, but it's still feel like a little bit of a surprise.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking closer to 33, you know, which is before there's any options on this one, the base price is 33,000 dollars, but then you throw a couple of options on to it and the destination fee and all of a sudden, you're at 37.5.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a lot of money for something with that has a curl a badge, but no GR badge.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you look at it at the curl-o with the girl badge on it and you're not at that price either.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's look at that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the cars upwards of 40 now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's upwards of 40 base.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're kind of hit 47, a 40 year old.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's pretty good.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can get a control of GR for, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: 10,000 dollars more than this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Mm.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's not a guy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it's, you know, that when the Praloo pricing came out, they sent it along with like, oh, based on inflation, it's actually less than like the 2002 Praloo to whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so when you look at like, you know, we can say, oh, well, based on the inflation, this car is actually cheaper than a, you know, a car.

[SPEAKER_04]: But that's based on inflation.

[SPEAKER_04]: We pay hasn't increased.

[SPEAKER_04]: Based on inflation.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's the big issues that the amount of money we take home hasn't kept track with inflation for a very long time So it just keeps getting everything gets getting more and more expensive when we're getting less It's a bigger and bigger percentage of our paycheck Yeah, it's there's a larger and larger gap every year So when you say, well, it's only Well according to inflation this car was only like, you know, $18,000 So I'm like, yeah, but I make less than I would have in the 90s [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I saw that that Honda comparison and it was cover because they compared to the last year of the prelude stuff.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're randomly comparing to 2001.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot has changed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, you know, a vehicle for authorities going to be from all year long.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to get any better.

[SPEAKER_01]: Same with everything else, but.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I think with the the RAF 4, when they announced the RAF 4 pricing a week or two ago, you know, I think they did something similar, you know, they compared the price of the base RAF 4, what SE trim I think is the base trim, you know, and compared that to the cheapest 2025 RAF 4 hybrid.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that trim was slightly cheaper by our couple hundred dollars, but, you know, that doesn't take into account the fact that you can't get a gas only RAV4 anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there was a cheaper RAV4 gas last year that is now gone.

[SPEAKER_03]: And if you, and the same, you know, the same thing happened with the forerunner, if you go past that base trim to any of the other trims, they're all, all the other trims are more expensive than the equivalent 2025 models.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was the same thing with the forerunner and with the Tacoma, you know, so they have, they get a cheap baseline price that for a version that almost nobody buys.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then everything else is more expensive.

[SPEAKER_03]: And in some cases, [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's just like the huge, huge leaps in the, and any trim below you get like four wheels and like some bicicletes for a steering wheel.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, you know, pricing is still going to refresh it all year.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I now let the tariffs have settled down to a degree and we hope I know for the moment I can do It's pretty preoccupied with going to war with a country that hasn't done anything to us yet [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, they're almost settled, but that does mean that the automakers can get a better grip on what their pricing needs to be for next year.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we do expect to see more impact.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see exactly what that translates into, but, you know, consumers of course are facing, you know, everything else is more expensive as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we do, I mean, didn't double check our forecast for 26, but we do expect 26 to be lower sales than 25.

[SPEAKER_01]: But the weird thing about all this pricing conversation that we have, we talk about pricing a lot, talk about affordability a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: and in 2012, we can't have thought affordability might be a bit of a problem.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking about this for years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And consumers just keep lying cocked.

[SPEAKER_04]: It is crazy what people are paying for cars and their loans and how much they're paying per month and I'm like, that's insane.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like the cheapest person on my block.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've talked about this on a couple of several occasions where was it 20% of all car payments are now over $1,000 a month?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, you know, and, you know, so many people now have seven and eight-year car loans, just insane.

[SPEAKER_03]: Much money.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it doesn't help that I live in the Bay Area, so there's that, and we bought a house in the Bay Area, so that, like, you know, we already have the squeeze of that, but even here in Michigan, yeah, it's it's still very expensive.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's still a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm lucky, you know, we haven't had a car payment in seven years.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, about seven years now since I last had a car payment, you know, I've both both of our cars are paid off.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, and that that's part of the reason why this year when we when we did decide to replace our old car, we we bought a use car for the first time at a long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've never mine's paid off, but mine's old and that's one of the things I'm not, you know, am I good lying to cars?

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I might, could happen, but yeah, my, my man has been paid off for a while and it is nice to go without a car payment and historically when I bought a car, gotten it paid off well before the loan term and and only had car payments over the years, but I don't know if that's possible with the way that pricing is right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's yeah, you know, average shines action prices, you know, topped 50,000 and was it September or October?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and well, there were some other factors.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, and it dipped back down again in October, slightly just below.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm, you know, my guess is that, you know, for at least the next year or two, you know, it's going to be hovering right around that $50,000 mark for for a while now.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's probably, it's probably going to just bounce up and down just around that mark, but not really drop significantly.

[SPEAKER_01]: So in that context, you know, $36,000 per curl across hybrid is not as crazy as it sounds, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bill.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bill.

[SPEAKER_01]: Bill.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're like, we do think about the economics that we're like, okay, 36,000, okay, three year loan.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right now, I'm much down.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're even getting 10%.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, it's a lot of money for a curl.

[SPEAKER_03]: it's the interest rates now too I mean it doesn't help yeah that's that's a big part of what contributes to those thousand dollar month payments is that the interest rates on a lot of these loans uh because you end up you know just paying an an exorbitant amount [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's been, it's been nice lately, you know, looking at my, my mortgage statement and seeing, you know, that we're, we're in the approaching the final years of our mortgage.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so now the vast majority of my monthly mortgage payment is going to principle and that's nice.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we're only six years in.

[UNKNOWN]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just bought Austin, tried to set things up.

[SPEAKER_01]: I should be paid off in a couple of years, but I did the big one payment.

[SPEAKER_01]: The summer, and so saw that same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sam, it was really nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really nice to see that that drop.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I can pay less interest, that's better.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we pay every two weeks.

[SPEAKER_04]: So twice a year, we're just paying directly to interest.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's never once a month.

[SPEAKER_04]: Look at that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Look at all the financial advice for giving people.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: So you'll apply your money.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just pay off your house and buy a used car.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's our best.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's the world-bearing tomorrow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, now, be careful of buying you.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Sam, you're able to buy your use car without a payment, but use car financing can be higher than new car finance.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, give a little bit there too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you do end up typically paying more interest rates on use car loans.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because generally, you're not going to get your used car loan.

[SPEAKER_03]: through the captive finance company, the automaker, and they usually give the best rates.

[SPEAKER_03]: So if you have to go through your bank or credit union or have them forbid, through the dealer, you're gonna end up paying a lot more in interest rates.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's actually another major challenge with used cars.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's an NC Miata for $10,000 near me, so I'm just, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I do decide to sell, there's one of my driveway and I don't sell it for a bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Probably can fly here and drive it home.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_04]: I only fit in Andy's.

[SPEAKER_04]: You don't fit in the N.C.

Nope.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because the way the cross member is for the.

[SPEAKER_04]: The.

[SPEAKER_04]: The.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our actual.

[SPEAKER_04]: The retractable top, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I drove my friend and his NA, he messed up his knee, we were at Taekwondo Tournament and he got kicked in the knee.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I had to drive him to the hospital in the snow and his NA, and I was driving like that.

[SPEAKER_04]: At my head all cocked like 45 degrees, he's almost horrible.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, man, this car sucks.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and you're quite a bit taller than I am, Robbie.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and the last time I drew a monster was at the Mama Spring rally in 2024 at Rhode America, and I went to take an ND out on the track and when you go on in the track, you have to wear a helmet.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was kind of a rainy day so had the top up, you know, at the top close it was an RF so it was the the hard top Had the top closed and with the helmet on, you know, I was like that, you know, my head cocked over because that could mean I could not fit with a helmet on Like that's me in the Lamborghini in the the Huracan and that will spring and I my head was caught at 45 degrees with the with Trying to drive on will at will spring in the Lamborghini.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was like [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: Never be talking a little shorter than you guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's on me.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, see that's everyone's like, oh, you're tall.

[SPEAKER_04]: You can reach things.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, yeah, but most like fun sports car.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like my friend had an S2000.

[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted one so bad, and I went to get in it.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, well, this will never work.

[SPEAKER_04]: That is never going to be part of my life.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I have to be our size.

[SPEAKER_04]: Small sports cars.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I have to be RZ.

[SPEAKER_04]: Be RZ.

[SPEAKER_03]: The mehata for tall people.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anything else on the crawl across?

[SPEAKER_01]: That was about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, really comfortable for it's segment and what.

[SPEAKER_01]: And more pleasant to drive than I was sort of expecting.

[SPEAKER_01]: And knocked around a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I like things that are small like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And ease of use in that space.

[SPEAKER_01]: Little quieter than I thought it was going to be from the engine on the the road noise and the tire was was pretty high Yeah, just radio up That's typical Toyota 4 cylinder [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very typical on that and again, the pricing was a little bit higher than I was sort of thinking, but as we've talked about, it's it makes a little bit more sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still 42 MPG is pretty nice and and a good viable option for for the answer space.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the answer space is not what it used to be.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: This guy, Robbie, tell us about your adventure this week.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I drove to Palm Springs in back, which is over 500 miles, and we took the dogs, and we, you know, usually we drive the dogs around in the ionic five, but that's so much time in a car.

[SPEAKER_04]: So what we do when we go on long trips to the dogs, we all rent a mini van, and then I had to spend like an entire day at when we get back cleaning the mini van, because you're not supposed to put dogs in your rental mini van.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_04]: So you almost always get a Chrysler Pacific.

[SPEAKER_04]: I got to tell you what you see in our hybrid once and I was so excited because I got a great gas mileage.

[SPEAKER_04]: But not this time, I got the Chrysler Pacific S, which is like, oh, it felt fancy.

[SPEAKER_04]: There was like, you know, USB ports in the back for the second row, which didn't matter because all the seats were down because [SPEAKER_04]: I have never had a car that dropped car play more than this video.

[SPEAKER_04]: Just non-stop.

[SPEAKER_04]: They just be driving.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's wired or wireless.

[SPEAKER_04]: either wired and wireless, that's what I was like, oh, I'll just unplug it, maybe there's something going, nope, USB-C, USB-A, it had both by the way, which was nice, but still either it just kept dropping card play.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not a hundred percent sure I was at the car or if it was my phone, but my phone has not dropped card play in my car at all, the entire time I've been back because there was an update for the iPhone and God knows what they're doing over and Apple anymore.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that was kind of a pain in the butt.

[SPEAKER_04]: I got about 22 miles, 22 and a half miles per gallon.

[SPEAKER_04]: Drive it down there, that's doing like 85 again, speeding the speed limit 70.

[SPEAKER_04]: So of course, I'm going to go faster in that because I'm a horrible person on the freeway.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was comfortable.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was comfortable.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was comfortable vehicle, stone go, still like, you know.

[SPEAKER_04]: double thumbs up for stowing go for a second and third row tons of room for all the random stuff like stuff starts sliding because there's so much room you don't have anything to like very carefully put things in the dogs enjoyed it they like being a list end up walk around come put their heads between the the two drivers the two [SPEAKER_04]: Um, that is the way it works with dogs and cars.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, that transmission.

[SPEAKER_03]: Man, it is that's the nine speed.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's not, it's, it's everything happens about three seconds later.

[SPEAKER_04]: But again, it's a, it's a, it's a mini van driver on town transmissions like that in order to like reduce, you know, get you some better fuel economy.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think for most of your driving, you're going to be fine, but it is, yeah, I didn't sit in the second or third row.

[SPEAKER_04]: I did clean those rows, which was nice.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, um, well, you shouldn't have to actually clean those seats.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I didn't have to clean the seats, so that was good.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, overall, it's, you know, if you're looking for a used minivan, this is probably about a 20, 20, 3, 20, 24.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's only like a, it only have like 60,000 miles, but those are 60,000 rental car miles.

[SPEAKER_04]: Those are some hard miles.

[SPEAKER_04]: Those are our guys throwing his German Shepherd in his [SPEAKER_04]: Um, that said, um, yeah, give it, give it a look, uh, you know, if you're want to go up a little bit, you're probably going to, you know, look at the Sienna or the Odyssey, um, but you can't beat Stellingo, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Especially if you, if you, if you haul a lot and I, when we moved, we had movers because we used to live on the fourth floor of a walk up in San Francisco.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, um, [SPEAKER_04]: After living there for over 10 years and just carrying things up.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're like we're not carrying all this down because then we're old We had movers move all the stuff except me knows always that extra stuff and I didn't rent a mini van I didn't I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't rent the SUV.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't rent a truck.

[SPEAKER_04]: I rented a mini van to get all that extra stuff into the you know to our new house [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the brilliant 7 million event.

[SPEAKER_04]: You have the little doors to slide open as you're walking up.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's the low load height.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's tons, there's so much room that you don't think about.

[SPEAKER_04]: That you lose when you have an SUV.

[SPEAKER_04]: Your city, lower, you feel, you know.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of a nicer drive and experience on the freeway, just cruising.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a better, you know, touring vehicle than an SUV.

[SPEAKER_04]: I cannot say enough nice things about minivans, and no matter how often I tell people, they're like, ew, and I'm just like, man.

[SPEAKER_04]: But then you see the people who have minivans, and you're like, they get it.

[SPEAKER_04]: They get it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I have a cousin who has kids, and they had a minivan for years.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was an unfortunately someone's tea-boomed it, but I remember when I saw it, I'm like, [SPEAKER_04]: This is he's Mercedes dealer.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: He works at a Mercedes Benz dealership.

[SPEAKER_04]: So he could like gotten anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: Nope.

[SPEAKER_04]: Got the Honda Odyssey.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, Chrysler Pacifica S.

The S S stands for sure.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why not pay for extra money.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you probably don't need that if you're if you're hauling kids.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, it's a little bit.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's it feels like it's a little bit geared towards [SPEAKER_03]: It's a good shorty, you know, everyone's, yeah, the one thing to remember is if you if you go with the plug-in hybrid version of the Pacifica, you you lose the stolen go for the second row seats because the tab in the seats go is where the battery is.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you can't take them out, when it first came out, I took them out, doesn't take too long, but now you gotta store these seats somewhere.

[SPEAKER_04]: And if you're going along a trip, like let's say we had decided while we were in Palm Springs, we decided to take a bunch of people somewhere if we had the hybrid, it wouldn't have made, you know, sorry, three people could sit in a very back.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Also, what's really weird is sometimes, I don't know why, rental places will buy plug-in hybrids.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's absolutely no reason in the world to rent anyone up plug-in hybrids, [SPEAKER_04]: Typically, and they don't have any work, you know, they're going to a hotel where are they going to plug in?

[SPEAKER_04]: So I've had more than a few people who like will call me or text me, who went to the car and they're like, I got this hybrid, and it's not even giving me any extra.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, does it have a plug?

[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, you got host.

[SPEAKER_04]: it doesn't make any sense why they're passing out plug-in hybrids for rental cars it's like either get a gas car or electric car or a hybrid don't get a plug-in hybrid when you're at the car.

[SPEAKER_04]: Unless you have somewhere to plug-in in at your destination, chances are it's not, [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's, you know, if you're staying at an Airbnb or something like that, there's a reasonable chance that you might have somewhere to plug it in.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, if you're going to rent it and then just, you know, drive around town, you know, use it to get around town every day.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's actually not a bad solution.

[SPEAKER_03]: But like for what you were doing, you know, which is driving from the Bay Area to Palm Springs.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it would make us.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, it makes no sense.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: In the middle of all this kind of conversation, passenger events this year through September.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they're all.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: 2000 registered give or take.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm January through September of 25.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm January through September of 24.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was 268,000.

[SPEAKER_01]: So pretty big.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the weird segment that's it's picking up this year.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we finally have talked to everybody in to the awesome like every I think almost every auto mode of journalists is like, you know, vans are pretty rad.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe you should get a van or a wagon and people are like, Yeah, if you if you've got young to, you know, teenage, you know, preteen kids of a mini van sliding doors, low load height.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so it's easy to get, you know, especially if you got younger kids, you have to put them into booster seats and things like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the kids can climb into the vehicle themselves and then you just lift them up into the booster and and get them buckled in.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's so much easier than doing the lift up into an SUV and trying to do this.

[SPEAKER_04]: I tried to explain the scenario with, you know, they're holding the child.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're walking to the car.

[SPEAKER_04]: You need to try to open the car.

[SPEAKER_04]: You open the door.

[SPEAKER_04]: You're going to hit the car next to you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Turn the squeeze in there or you walk up.

[SPEAKER_04]: You hit the button.

[SPEAKER_04]: The door slides open.

[SPEAKER_03]: you know this giant opening to shove your child into its seats and then just just like you know if your kids are old enough that you know when you do park the car and it's time to get out you know and they're they're going to open the back door some shelves because you know they're not going to take that care not to ding the car next in you know so if you get sliders perfect go you're done you're you're golden [SPEAKER_04]: If you're a parent, do you like when you're when you're parking is a question for parents with like young youngest kids who can open their Do you when you're parking, if you see a car is very expensive, do you go and find another parking spot or are you just like so tired all the time because you have children that you're just like well roll the dice buddy [SPEAKER_03]: Harry, don't hit that car, clunk.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, I mean, thinking back to when our kids were younger, I don't think I specifically looked for spaces away from more expensive cars, but just wider spaces, yeah, because, you know, a lot of times there's not a whole lot of room when you pull in.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so finding a space that's got more room on the sides, regardless of what's parked next to it, is definitely definitely something [SPEAKER_04]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I did the bill challenge.

[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't pee for a really long time.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, by the long, when we were talking, we were talking about pricing and stuff as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, see, I'm looking at numbers while we're talking.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because why not?

[SPEAKER_01]: And really, you know, it looks like from our data about 49% were in the 40 to $47,000 price range give or take.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I rate and 15% in the 46 to 50.

[SPEAKER_01]: So 40, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: 40 to 46, 49, and then 46, 500 to 49, 49, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, is another 15%.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it looks like most of these are really going in that 48 to 50,000 dollar price range, which isn't that bad when the context of what we were talking about, look, roll across, being a 30 set.

[SPEAKER_01]: including destination.

[SPEAKER_01]: This would not include destination.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah 36 including destination, you can you can step up a little bit more to be really need to get a menu then.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what can I do you come to increasingly hard to define, you know, reasonably equipped three row SUV for under 50 grand.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you fit in the back of a mini van.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like most three row SUVs, I get in the back and like, well, I did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can I go now?

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like when someone gives you food that you know is not going to be great and you're like, well, I'll taste it.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a third row in most SUVs.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, well, I did the thing to say that I did it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm never going to do this again.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, well, I have, I'm Mercedes Benz, I'm Mercedes AMG G63 and so the exact same kind of car that we had and, you know, I mean, this is this car, you know, this this vehicle is.

[SPEAKER_03]: In principle, one of the most capable four-wheel drive off-road vehicles in the world.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got three locking differentials front center and rear.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got a solid rear axle, you know, so you get good articulation off-road.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got all the good stuff that you want in an off-road SUV.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's got 22 inch wheels, with low-profile tires.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is expensive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is this one?

[SPEAKER_03]: Ooh.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_03]: The base price is $186,100.

[SPEAKER_03]: All in, this one was $211,700, which, you want to take a guess at the destination charge?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're in three grand now, maybe.

[SPEAKER_03]: 1,200 rubble almost nailed at 11.50, because the thing that we have come to realize here on wheel bearings is that the domestic automakers, they are hiding their price increases in destination charges, just cranking up the destination charges.

[SPEAKER_03]: The Germans, I don't care, fine, we're going to raise the price, we're just going to raise the sticker price, you know, they're not going to screw out, you know, trying to hide it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just there.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, 1150 bucks.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, the more expensive imports like this, typically the destination charges, even if they're coming from Germany or somewhere else.

[SPEAKER_03]: are relatively modest compared to, you know, the $2,500, $2,600, you'll pay now for a full size pickup or SUV from Ford, GM or Stalantis.

[SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So the AMG G63 has the AMG 4-liter twin turbo V8 with their 48 volt mile hybrid system on it, 577 horsepower, 627 pound-feet at torque, side exit exhaust, so two exhaust pipes in front of each of the rear wheels.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so this thing sounds fantastic when you fire it up and especially if you put it in sport plus mode, it really sounds good when you when you step on the gas and you're rev it.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, unlike, you know, an EV, I mean, this thing's, you know, authentic rumbling thing, you know, got almost 600 V8 horsepower under the hood.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's, it sounds like fun, but, you know, it's, it's so weird, you know, looking down at the console, seeing these switches for the three locking differentials and, you know, all the other stuff, you know, that they all, the, the off-road drive modes, you know, there's a whole page, you can flip the infotainment system to the, to the, in fact, there's a dedicated button.

[SPEAKER_03]: You don't even have to go searching through a menu.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a button [SPEAKER_03]: It shows you things like, you know, your role in pitch angle, things like that, so you know how far you're tilted up, you know, because you're never, nobody's ever ever going to take this thing off road, unless they buy one that's like 25, 30 years old and they throw away those wheels and tires, put a lift kid on it and put on some proper off road altering tires.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, people get snow tires.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this one is also tires.

[SPEAKER_03]: They did put snow on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, but you could get off of spare off-road tires, you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to run around a thousand dollars.

[SPEAKER_03]: You could put the people that are going to buy this thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, people living in, you know, Beverly Hills, you know, driving, you know, to the Gucci store on, on Rodeo Drive.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's not the car or that's the people's fault.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not blaming the car.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is absolutely the fault of the people that are buying this vehicle, which is, like I said, it has all these core capabilities that make it great for going to Moab or the Rubicon Trail.

[SPEAKER_03]: But then they put these ridiculous wheels and tires on it that make it useless.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you can I I looked you can get 20 inch tires for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's a 20 inch wheels.

[SPEAKER_03]: The MG G63 does come standard with 20s.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but they just gave you the 22s because yeah, that's why they buy when they buy this thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: because they don't enjoy freedom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was in Japan at the Tokyo Motor Show a few weeks ago, wherever that was.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there were a ton of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Eight, three classes of all over the place.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of surprising how many of you were in Tokyo.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of a strange thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I, you know, I probably would also be one of those people that ever took it off road.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, guilty pleasure car, check, check, check.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_04]: I got the person that the head of this vehicle to admit that the EV version is the best one.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I had the, I, I drove the EV one, and I can't take it off road.

[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It comes standard with these street tires, you know, that, that, you know, you don't want to take those things on a trail where you're going to, you know, where the sharp rocks are going to cut up those tires very easily.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do what I want.

[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, there's some really nice things about this.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the seats, the front seats and the thing are great.

[SPEAKER_03]: The back seats kind of tight, but, you know, for giving the proportions, you know, it's similar and size to, you know, a four-door Wrangler or Bronco.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, but the front seats, you know, you get these performance front seats, you know, heavy bolstering, you know, so when you're cornering hard, you know, it's also got the, the thing that Mercedes does, where it's, it's got a dynamic mode for the seats.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when you're turning to the right, you'll feel the left side bolster pushing you in, you know, trying to keep you in place in front of the steering wheel.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, those are cool little features that the massage function in those seats works really nice.

[SPEAKER_03]: I took this thing out for a drive for a couple of hours the other day before the snow started and, you know, it was very, very pleasant to drive.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, again, because of the shape of this thing, you know, it's, it's a very upright vehicle.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's, there's a lot of similarity in the design to, to a, to a Jeep to a Wrangler.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so the hood actually slopes down quite a bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got a very upright windshield, you know, almost flat windshield.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so you have actually very good visibility in front of you and to the corners, which if you were on a trail on an off-road trail would be great, because you can see where you're maneuvering, even without having to resort to all the cameras and stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: But again, on the tires that come from the factory wheels and tires come from the factory you know you're gonna get about 20 feet on the trail if you're lucky, and that's about it He got about nine and a half inches of ground clearance on this thing which actually is better than the Jeep Recon.

[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about last week which is only 9.1 inches and Different take that Jeep Recon Take that Jeep Recon [SPEAKER_03]: And various iterations of the G-Wagon, depending on what configuration you get, some of them get up to 13 inches of ground clearance, which is actually really good.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the MBUX Infotainment System works quite well.

[SPEAKER_03]: The voice control is good.

[SPEAKER_03]: What else is on this thing?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you know, some of the options on there had some of the manufacture trim elements.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you've got the, there's a grab handle on the passenger side of the dash.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when my wife was going to climb into this thing yesterday, she saw the grab handle, you know, use that to pull herself up, because the thing is pretty tall.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, it had, you know, on the, this one I think, Walnut, I think, had Walnut trim, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So open poor Walnut trim on the dashboard and on those grab handles and it had the manufacturer script, you know, spelled the German way with with a K and no E, you know, which that's Mercedes personalization package, you know, that they offer.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, no, it's oak, it's natural grain oak wood trim, which looks really nice in this thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, nice good sized cup holders, so it fit my wife's big ass water bottle.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's surprisingly nice to drive.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's very quick with almost 600 horsepower.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's got this weird split personality, you know, it's got all these capabilities that you can't actually use just because of the wheels and tires they put on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I used to buy spare wheels and tires, but I'm on the garage.

[SPEAKER_01]: That changed out when you want to go off-roading.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I first paying like a minimum $155,000 for 80 seconds.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the food.

[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll get the cheap one.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: The cheap one.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you probably can afford that's an extra set of wheels.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're not, I mean, the people who are buying this car are not.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, I took the electric one.

[SPEAKER_04]: I kept taking it off into the dirt and on a little trail and stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, no one's ever, this is in California.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is like one of three of these.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: And California is the largest market for this vehicle, because LA, and those things, I every time I see one, I cry a little, a little, [SPEAKER_04]: It's like when I see a lower WRX or STI.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: Stop it.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's the same thing with the G-Wag.

[SPEAKER_04]: I see a G-Wag and it's definitely never been off-road.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I'm fully aware that anybody who is going to spend 200, almost $212,000 on a vehicle like this can certainly afford to buy an extra set of wheels and tires and they can also afford to have somebody that takes care of the vehicles in their garage of multiple vehicles.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, when they, you know, just, you know, press a button on their desk or, you know, somewhere in their smart, you know, probably smart home, you know, it will send a message to that person saying, hey, I plan to go off-roading this afternoon, you know, put the off-road tires on the, the AMGG63.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it will just, it will just magically happen.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're not, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: the people that own this type of vehicle are not, you know, if they cared all about going off-roading, you know, they will have someone that they employ to take care of this stuff for them.

[SPEAKER_03]: They got a guy or, you know, they may, they may actually just have two of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: They may have one with the summer performance tires and then a second one with off-road tires.

[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Spare G collect, but that's our, that's what we're even resting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's the doubled.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but one of the, the thing is, you know, if you are going to go off road with this thing, you, you know, it's not just the tires, you do have to be careful with those exhaust tips because, you know, the exhaust pipes come out the side just in front of the rear wheels.

[SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, depending on, you know, where the obstacles are, it would be very easy to crush those, and I'm sure that would not be an inexpensive repair to replace those exhaust tips.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yellow.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's see.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's move onto some other stuff.

[SPEAKER_04]: The Dodge Magnum, the coolest thing Dodge has done in 100 years.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: I missed the Magnum.

[SPEAKER_03]: I missed the Magnum.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a shame that it didn't sell more of those.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because yeah, I thought that was a really cool looking vehicle.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a really cool design for a wagon.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you could get it with a with a hammy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it was, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It had all of the same driving dynamics as a challenger or charger for good or ill, which is actually surprisingly good, given the size and weight of the car.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it only lasted a few years because Americans don't like to have the right kinds of vehicles.

[SPEAKER_03]: They don't like to have good things.

[SPEAKER_04]: There were a lot of margnems in the Bay Area.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like it was, they were, yeah, I think maybe we bought all of them.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what the deal is.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, probably the Bay Area and Detroit.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're probably the only person.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's probably a lot.

[SPEAKER_04]: Probably because they could probably throw their bikes in it or something.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was just such a cool looking car and so unapologetically American and in your face, I loved it.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So somebody did a render, probably AI generated, but it might have been done in the Photoshop, taking the current Dodge Charger.

[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, the one that they used is the base for this image was the Charger Daytona, and they put an extended roof line on it to turn it into a modern day [SPEAKER_03]: And they also put, you know, as if the the charger Dayton is not wide enough, they put to the wide body wheel fliers on there from the last generation charger Challenger.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this thing looks really good.

[SPEAKER_04]: I like it less than I've I've posted on the internet dozens of times Bring back the Magnum you cowards and so far they have not at least someone still No, it's making no one's listening.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, they're definitely like dodges definitely not listening anything.

[SPEAKER_04]: I've ever said [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they saw the lesson of the Cadillac CTSV wagon, you know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, maybe I like that better than I said.

[SPEAKER_03]: Journalists said, yes, give us this cool looking wagon with a big supercharged V8 engine and a manual transmission.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then nobody bought it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know one person did it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I tried it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I almost bought that one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, did you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I could never afford it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted that car.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted that car.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ray, Ray Wartsiel, only person I know who has one.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he bought, he bought his used.

[SPEAKER_03]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hi.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, sadly, this was one.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one that I knew of was purple with the manual transmission.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ooh.

[SPEAKER_03]: That darn purple.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember the purple.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you that later.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but, uh, I'm sure somebody will build one of these for SEMA, one of these days.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_03]: But probably not an electric one.

[SPEAKER_03]: They'll probably build one with a, with a Hellcat in it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: SEMA, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, uh, so do either of you have any subscriptions that you pay for in your car?

[SPEAKER_03]: my car.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because you can use your car to subscribe to stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do not.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even I'm even off serious right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was on series, but I'm even in a series at the moment.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the State of New York, or at least one state senator in New York, is sponsoring a bill that would sort of kind of ban subscriptions.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, I can't do it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the quote here from the Jelopnik article is, the automakers building a feature into a car for as long as cars have been invented, you've never had to pay a subscription to access those features.

[SPEAKER_03]: When asked if he sees this as the next wave of corporate nickel and diamond turning safety into a luxury, Skulfless didn't hesitate.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's no question.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, everybody is complaining about, you know, BMW's experiments with, you know, charging a subscription for heated seats and heated steering wheels and things like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, those went nowhere because, you know, the market said, yeah, no, we don't want this.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're not going to pay for this.

[SPEAKER_03]: but, you know, manufacturers continue to try to experiment with trying to find ways to extract money from their customers in perpetuity.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, some of those efforts are working better than others, like, you know, getting them to pay subscription.

[SPEAKER_03]: or at least for connectivity, and then to use that as a way to charge a subscription for some of the more advanced driver-sist features like supercruz or Ford's Bluecruz.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so the bill that is being sponsored in New York State, targeted subscription fees for accessing hardware that's already built into the car.

[SPEAKER_03]: But there are of course exceptions.

[SPEAKER_03]: The provisions of the section shall not apply to navigation system updates.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, so you still have to pay for your nav updates.

[SPEAKER_03]: Infotainment features, satellite radio, in vehicle Wi-Fi, telematics services, roadside assistance, software dependent driver assistance, or other driver automation features, or vehicle connected services.

[SPEAKER_03]: So basically, they won't be able to charge you for heated seats.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they would they watch her and you know, the trick is, you know, is finding enough for the consumer to find value.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some of these things that are, that are being charged for subscriptions, there are, there are over the or updates.

[SPEAKER_01]: The things do change.

[SPEAKER_01]: We talk about supercursive lucruse and maps change, the way that it interacts and the, and the HUD changes are in the, the driver information system changes for you over time.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, if you've got something that gets better or does offer something different, a subscription makes sense.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because there's a cost associated with developing and testing that and deploying it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, somebody's got to pay for that, you know, and they either build it into the price of the vehicle upfront.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that's problematic because again, it's that affordability issue and also you don't necessarily know how much you're going to spend on that, you know, the manufacturer doesn't necessarily know how much it's going to cost over the vehicle's lifetime.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, so trying to figure out what is the right price point where's, you know, a subscription actually does make a lot of sense for a lot of those things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, and so I would see in some respects, you know, proposing a bill that bands subscriptions to heated seats, which the market already killed by itself, but makes everything that makes sense to have a subscription for you still available seems like a real waste of legislative time, doesn't it?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it gives them something to campaign on.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they can go out, you know, when next, there's always to be an election saying, look, I got this bill through that the band subscriptions in your car except for this stuff and to be honest at some point they're going to try to slip some the automakers are going to try to slip something like those seats into cars.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they're going to, yeah, well, that's the only way you're going to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to wait till there's bad.

[SPEAKER_04]: But it was just a lot of bad news and then slide it on out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, slide it out there, and then people don't pay it, and it keeps, it keeps moving.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there is because descriptions are something that people can push back on, just by not buying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that it'll find something.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it is also true that auto makers about having the hardest time really trying to find that balance.

[SPEAKER_01]: there are a new more and more subscription fees that are associated with their services and with the capabilities and and the take rights of nap and high and quite enough and and some of the targets of you know twenty five billion dollars of revenue in twenty thirty from subscription services feel really far away.

[SPEAKER_01]: They feel like it's not kind of happened in the same way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's been a complete struggle and on the other side of that constant discussions about how we need to move to a software defined vehicle and we need to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is what [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you move to something that you're going to continue to update by software, you're going to have to pay for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's still a big balance.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's still a big balance in that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think for the most part, the target isn't necessarily just to find a way to to randomly get money from you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's still realizing you have to provide a value for that money.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God, if BMW heated seat, example, is one consumer is clearly said, no, that's not acceptable.

[SPEAKER_04]: We got so angry and it wasn't even here.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was like in some like test markets somewhere else We absolutely all lost our minds were like no [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they did they did try briefly charge a subscription fee for car play.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: I remember every every review.

[SPEAKER_04]: I did have a BMW made fun of that and then in a way.

[SPEAKER_04]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as their connectivity, their connection wasn't that good.

[SPEAKER_04]: It was one of them that I was dropped.

[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like there's a cable and it was having fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, you know, it's interesting to have a piece of legislation kind of looking at that, but um, it's going to continue to happen.

[SPEAKER_04]: And a world that we live in now, this seems like the lowest hanging boring, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: Come on.

[SPEAKER_04]: Some other things.

[SPEAKER_04]: Get to work.

[SPEAKER_00]: There isn't there's something that matters.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's some something that might be useful.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's some really important things if we do right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's just New York, doesn't matter anyway.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is one of the top five markets in the US, but still.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay, so if you don't want to pay subscriptions, how about if we charge, how about if we run ads in your car for you, use that to pay things?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Is he performing?

[SPEAKER_04]: What was going on?

[SPEAKER_04]: Who's head?

[SPEAKER_03]: His brain was, but you know what I think.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I mean, you know, for years, there's been discussion about, you know, having, you know, part of why the, you know, why automakers want the connectivity into vehicles, so they can run ads in there.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's, you know, also one of the reasons people talked about, you know, why, why did Google, you know, get into the business of trying to build self-driving cars, you know, well, Google's revenue, you know, 80% of Google 85% of Google's revenue comes from advertising.

[SPEAKER_03]: What can you do in a self-driving car when you're not driving?

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you could look at ads, we can put ads in front of you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's the data of where you're going, what you're doing, who you are.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, this person loves barbecue, looking out for them ads everywhere on their computer, their phone, their TV about barbecue.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I haven't seen an ad in a waymo yet, but, uh, but Stellantis, on the other hand, has started experimenting with ads.

[SPEAKER_03]: This first popped up a few weeks ago, we didn't talk about it then, you know, Stellantis said, oh, no, sorry.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was a bug.

[SPEAKER_03]: That shouldn't have happened.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's back again.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the first one was a bag.

[SPEAKER_03]: The second one, they're like, now it's good now.

[SPEAKER_03]: We got it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So apparently some still antis owners have been seeing pop-up ads showing up on their infotainment screen.

[SPEAKER_03]: But they're not even interesting ads.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're certainly not ads that you should be reading while you're driving.

[SPEAKER_04]: You have this whole space, this giant, and there's like here's some text.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that you're gonna like click away from any way.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like when you get in your car and it's like lawyer lawyer lawyer Yeah, whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm driving let me drive my car.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is the same thing so it was like a it's a bad idea B it was done just Yeah, excuse you back see the design was like well, I don't know Well, and the one that you'll often post you, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: This is Justin Alves $1,500 loyalty Retail bonus cash so the ad is to buy another car [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, do you own the car that you're driving?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, if you're driving around in a still-at-is-product, and an ad like this shows up saying, hey, buy another still-at-is-product.

[SPEAKER_03]: Are you going to think to yourself, yeah, you know, I should go buy another Jeep or another Chrysler.

[SPEAKER_03]: You don't think, no!

[SPEAKER_03]: Why?

[SPEAKER_03]: If you're gonna put ads up in there for me, I'm gonna go buy a Honda or a Toyota.

[SPEAKER_04]: I thought there anything that doesn't give me serve me as I don't understand that.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is just indicative of Stalantis to be honest.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is like their entire marketing, like I'm surprised at it, right the word hemmy in here, to be honest.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then just at the bottom, hemmy.

[SPEAKER_04]: And the fact that you have to call a phone number to opt out, yes, call this number to opt out.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: You've been opted in, the least they could do is make that, you know, a clickable button, you know, so you don't have to, because as it is, it's just a piece of text on the screen.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you can't even just click on that number.

[SPEAKER_03]: You actually have to, you know, find a further way to do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're testing a bad idea and you're doing it with a really bad ad that has multiple problems for somebody driving.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like somebody is putting this out as a test who isn't necessarily keen on the idea.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not keen on the idea.

[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe trying to sabotage it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do it really badly.

[SPEAKER_04]: I feel it just bad at their jobs to be honest.

[SPEAKER_04]: This isn't like, oh, I got, I'm, I'm gonna mess this up.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, you're just, they're, I'll just, top to bottom.

[SPEAKER_04]: This was a bad idea.

[SPEAKER_04]: No one said no.

[SPEAKER_04]: There was like an intern in the media who was taking notes like this seems like a bad idea, but no one's gonna listen to that person.

[SPEAKER_04]: Right, go, no, no, no, everyone's like, this will be great.

[SPEAKER_04]: People love this, they'll be able to buy another Jeeper ram, which, [SPEAKER_04]: $1,500 loyalty, which I'll almost pay for the the destination fee.

[SPEAKER_04]: And you have to call somebody to opt out.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yay.

[SPEAKER_01]: I keep getting told that I'm the only person in the world listening to Pandora still, but I do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't have the subscription and ads pop off when I'm listening to Pandora all the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I accept that.

[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm paying for connectivity and a vehicle and ads are popping up because I'm paying connected to the vehicle, that's a little bit different because I paid for something.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's like when Amazon started putting ads on Amazon Prime video, yeah, and then this, you know, this is, you know, service we've had for years, you know, we're, okay, get to watch commercial free shows and movies.

[SPEAKER_03]: And now all of a sudden, oh, [SPEAKER_03]: uh...

we're gonna start running these ads and running a really high ad load on all these shows the same for the annoying ads yes that a dobe creator and yeah and if you don't like this while you can just pay us the next for three dollars a month on top of your uh...

prime subscription it's like which you know [SPEAKER_04]: That's the weird thing is that like when Hulu had to me you could rent you could subscribe to Hulu with ads and then Hulu with that ads and same thing with Paramount Plus.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so I just paid the extra money for Paramount Plus because I was trying to watch all the Star Trek's in order and I got tired of ads.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I knew what I was getting into.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like if the the Amazon thing you're like pay a street dollars more like no.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, bad Amazon.

[SPEAKER_04]: You like pop them on the nose or like a newspaper.

[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, you know, you offered something and then you took it away and then you want $3.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, I'm happy to pay $5 or whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: More I pay to paramount plus or the $10 I pay more to Hulu when I upgraded that.

[SPEAKER_04]: But for some reason, the idea is like, now we're just gonna put them in there and it's gonna be the same for ads over and over and over.

[SPEAKER_03]: you know because no actually I think like for the streaming services the ones that have adds and this is part of the reason why they have like Netflix has continued to raise the price of their ad-free subscriptions because they are actually making more money.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even at a lower subscription fee, they're making more money from the ads than they, you know, more margin per customer than they are from the ad free versions of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which is why like the cheapest ad free Netflix subscription is now like, you know, 23 or 24 dollars a month.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, it's, it's insane.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, [SPEAKER_04]: Websites don't have the, you know, the, the hover time.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're not staying on that site as much as Google or Facebook.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so they have, they get way better data from Facebook and Google.

[SPEAKER_04]: So the ads, you know, what they're going to sell for inventory for, for publications is way low compared to those other things.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so now we can't afford journalists.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Crazy that it on speed adds to and on Pandora like the I keep getting Nissan aunts and my Pandora Advertising thing and I've been really honestly kind of The gross by the ads.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's so product focus There's there's one about it's Nissan roll or frontier It's honey and you know which day it is but still which and act, you know [SPEAKER_01]: And you don't know that you don't know the engineer that did all the cat leather testing.

[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't know the engineer that close the door 13 thousand times to make sure that it's good.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking, no, that wasn't the engineer with the camera.

[SPEAKER_04]: And roll up.

[SPEAKER_01]: But just a point.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think I do know you know who I am.

[SPEAKER_04]: And this is some bad attitude.

[SPEAKER_04]: That was an intern.

[SPEAKER_04]: But that did that.

[SPEAKER_01]: still like they still they talk about some of the I'm some of the testing that gets done and then they're like yeah we do all this so the vehicle that you have is you know it can go off or everything you can do you want we've got a jiky power award and love a block and there's one for you know pass finder rock pre-condition really talks about kind of where you want to go where you want to take the car but they draw through some really great product connections [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not about the monthly price and it's not if really I have a little bit of a plus by the way those ads are I'm like if you're listening to this if you're not really paying that much attention or in the middle of this all the time if you're just a buyer just thinking maybe it's time to get in your car and I think it's had that actually it's owes you something about the car and gives you a reason it connects the rock for it that connects with the lifestyle.

[SPEAKER_01]: and they do it all over, because you're listening to Pandora and you're not watching something.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's it, I'm pretty glad.

[SPEAKER_04]: So your saying is the Lance is these the higher the ad camp, the the ad ads you didn't see that knee sounds you see.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or still this is not a pop up on my cards.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I still am that good with the pop ups.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, you're like going off road.

[SPEAKER_04]: Get a Jeep.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it seems like they're just like, hey, oh, I just wanted some of these brands.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you get some extra money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the kind of crazy, but we'll see.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, let's stick with Stellantis for a minute.

[SPEAKER_03]: The Fiat 500, when they launched the current generation of the 500, initially it was only available as an EV, even though the platform it's on is a multi-energy platform, so they can do gas and hybrids stuff on it, [SPEAKER_03]: And here in the U.S.

we still only get the EV, but in Europe they have just launched a a new version with gas engine.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is a one-liter three-cylinder engine with 65 horsepower.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's see, it does 0 to 60 and 16 seconds.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Jason Torchinski loves the idea at the Atopian.

[SPEAKER_03]: He thinks he thinks it's fast enough.

[SPEAKER_03]: And generally, I would agree that most modern cars of arguably gotten too fast.

[SPEAKER_03]: We don't need pickup trucks and SUVs that go from 0 to 60 in three seconds.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know, do you think 16 seconds 0 to 60 [SPEAKER_03]: What was the old fiat 500 specks?

[SPEAKER_03]: Now you're talking like old school like not modern.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, not the modern the old modern one I've talking about something it takes three days to get to [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it was quite that slow.

[SPEAKER_03]: At least not the versus the server you was.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because here, they sold it with, I think a 1.3 or 1.4 liter turbo for cylinder, and yeah, it was probably in that 10 second range.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's fine now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because we have to have to have to have it in a five.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you're never really going 60 miles an hour in it and the reason I said not the US is because US doesn't have any mark.

[SPEAKER_01]: Very many city markets that are really just urban city vehicles.

[SPEAKER_01]: We just don't have an answer.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, ever speaking, it happens about eight miles an hour or so.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, it is, but I don't see a lot of Manhattan nights just having anything one to five to five hundred.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's logical there.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm but my friends in the city just bought a fiat 500 I used one Oh, yeah, it's average Cisco not Manhattan.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry [SPEAKER_04]: So, we had a lot of fire.

[SPEAKER_04]: We released a Fiat 500 when we, the WRX, when the motor exploded.

[SPEAKER_03]: Jason does give the example here of a 74 AMC Gremlin, which took 17.7 seconds.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember when I, like back in like 2008 or nine, I drove a smart European spec, [SPEAKER_03]: And I did a zero sixty run in that.

[SPEAKER_03]: It took 19 seconds.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, um, you know, that and I actually did try driving that thing on the highway and it was terrifying.

[SPEAKER_04]: So what happens, it's like I'm getting up to speed is that this is an issue that I have with the Vespa.

[SPEAKER_04]: If I, because the Vespa will do 80 miles an hour, 12 small 12, 12 inch tires, I'm a mad man, according to more cyclists.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so yes, it will get up to that speed and you can get up to, you know, and it's also a more shaggle.

[SPEAKER_04]: But at a certain point, their situation's ready to have to break or you have to accelerate to get out of them.

[SPEAKER_04]: And that reduces one of those options, because if you can't accelerate, if sometimes you have to accelerate out of a situation, and if you really can't, that's, that's, that's where, you know, I'm the, well, it's going to take this long.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I get behind people in cars that are just never good.

[SPEAKER_04]: They take like a good 45 seconds to get to speed.

[SPEAKER_04]: Not because the car can do it.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's just how they drive on the freeway.

[SPEAKER_04]: And I live next to a freeway.

[SPEAKER_04]: So there's that, but I think there's, yeah, I think it's around town, cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, even in LA, this would be fine to be honest, because most of the time we're not going that fast in the freeway, because you're stuck in traffic.

[SPEAKER_04]: But if you're in the middle of like, you know, a very car centric, highway centric, like mid-sized city, like that's a bakers field, then this is going to be a little bit tough to get up to speed and, you know, [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sad I wish the EV version had been out of $6,000 cheaper.

[SPEAKER_04]: I really like that little car Yeah, it was great for around town, but it was just like here's the car.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh cool.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's dirty for you.

[SPEAKER_04]: Whoa whoa.

[SPEAKER_04]: Whoa I can get a proper like I'll make it like on one hand I'm like, oh, this is a fun little car.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's got a small little little little battery You can charge it really quickly.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's fun to drive around but on the other hand like the logic of like, well, this is so much money Yeah [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, 34, 35,000 for the 500E, it was just too much, given what you got.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So...

[SPEAKER_01]: And the flip side of this conversation and it's a zero to 16 seconds to zero to 60s is too slow for the US, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean you can't find specific news cases.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh no, it's like four places in the US, it's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the rest of it, it's not.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's so much.

[SPEAKER_01]: But here, you know, not talking, talking about EVs and the acceleration that they have right now, [SPEAKER_01]: How many people on the US really understand how fast their EVs can go from zero to 60?

[SPEAKER_01]: And how many accidents are we going to end up having when people just don't quite realize how fast this car is?

[SPEAKER_01]: To your point, Sam, that everything needs to go to 60 miles an hour and three or four seconds.

[SPEAKER_01]: not necessary either.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be interesting and I'm like driving home 75.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like just gets to be 85 and maybe just you don't even notice.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing 90.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's it's going to be interesting kind of watching drivers figure out really how to work with that and and see how the only shooting tickets happen and see what we really do when we get more [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, we talked about this last week I think, you guys weren't here, but new regulations in China that would mandate that, you know, the default mode, you know, whenever you start the vehicle, you, the vehicle couldn't accelerate to 60 and less than five seconds, you know, you could have a performance where it would go faster than that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But by default, every time you start the car, it has to be limited to no more than five seconds, zero, 60, which I think that's fair.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's reasonable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even that is arguably too quick for a lot of people, especially in conditions like we have today here in Michigan, I think that's too fast for most people to handle safely.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I agree, I think here in the US, you know, for most US driving conditions, you know, long as the exception is like driving on the 405, you know, driving in Manhattan, you know, where, you know, you're not really going anywhere.

[SPEAKER_03]: But other than that, you know, 16, 17 seconds is probably a bit too slow for for most people.

[SPEAKER_01]: It took me a couple of minutes to look this up while we're talking, but the fee I'm going to make it gonna make it gonna make it With the 1.4 liter was 10.5 seconds.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that was perfectly reasonable That is an absolutely reasonable zero to 60 time [SPEAKER_01]: the abarth was seven seconds.

[SPEAKER_01]: So 10 seconds, I think you might be able to work with.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it still feels pretty slow, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: We drove it on the freeway all the time.

[SPEAKER_03]: No feels no.

[SPEAKER_03]: It only feels slow because we've gotten used to cars.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're so absurdly fast.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's actually a very reasonable acceleration rate for.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a slow turn around.

[SPEAKER_01]: They get to be short on-arms.

[SPEAKER_01]: Get to be uncomfortable when you've got 10 seconds.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, you're convertible.

[SPEAKER_04]: Hold on, 17.3.

[SPEAKER_04]: I think I can live with that.

[SPEAKER_04]: Where are you going?

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to it's like whenever you see someone driving a VW like a beetle like an old beetle around you know Like a super beetle or before that and you're like, okay, everyone expects that guys, you know, are that gal it's gonna be a while They're gonna do 60 45 minutes or so But I don't yeah when you when you if you're stuck behind this car, you're you know, and there are some big Derson jerks and some big cars that can tell you that [SPEAKER_04]: I think this is it's fine for a very small portion of America and totally not fine for a very large portion of America.

[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's my that's my take.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think Southern California now so you know you know is what's like to drive on the 405.

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's probably why.

[SPEAKER_03]: It just likes to poke people.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean Jason's also into very weird cars.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's saying he's so proud, didn't he?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I didn't do that at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think he did have a pal.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he had this weird little Chinese EV called a candy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, they built at home or something?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, he didn't have to build it at home, but it was like, I think.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, uh, what, a thousand, maybe $2,000, you know, it's, it's not really street legal.

[SPEAKER_03]: They, they actually sell, um, though, not that particular one that he has, but they lows sells, um, you know, candy, electric, um, you know, kind of off road vehicles, utility vehicles for like farms and stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: They sell.

[SPEAKER_02]: They sell.

[SPEAKER_02]: They sell.

[SPEAKER_03]: They sell.

[UNKNOWN]: They sell.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're kind of like side by side, but not not is I mean, not for a table bros, you know, like a, you know, the, the horns in a, no.

[SPEAKER_04]: Like, woo, go ahead for it.

[SPEAKER_04]: All right.

[SPEAKER_04]: So, what if you have two friends in there, that goes down to like 25 seconds.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, everybody put your foot out with their Jason's size.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to make much difference.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Jason's Jason's a that yeah, he's not me.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's not tall Jason's great love Jason So Yeah, and another thing I'm sure that we all love is US car dealers, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: the best.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, okay.

[SPEAKER_04]: So I know I talked a lot about you as correct.

[SPEAKER_04]: But the car dealer that I go to, they're actually, especially the service center, service center, outstanding, wonderful, nice people, and the dealership when I, but I'm going to caveat this is that when we walked in my wife's like, he writes about cars.

[SPEAKER_04]: he's been on car and driver he's been on autoplay and that that like she just walks in like that see that guy don't can't mess with him so I think that I don't think that means that everyone else is Kevin the great time like I yeah [SPEAKER_03]: So, one of our favorite topics over the last several years was, you know, especially when it was a shortage of supply of new vehicles available to buy, was dealers taking that opportunity to, you know, use the law of supply and demand to their advantage, to their financial advantage, particularly, you know, the lack of supply and high demand.

[SPEAKER_03]: And apparently some dealers are starting to do that now with the new Honda Prelude.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's at least one dealer somewhere that, you know, I mean the Prelude is not inexpensive to begin with, it's $43,000, including delivery, $43 and change, including delivery.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this dealer is adding almost $20,000 to that.

[SPEAKER_03]: $60 to almost just shy of $62,000.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then people are like, wow, every time a day they get to angry, that someone wants someone's like, well, why can we just buy it directly from the automaker, like Tesla, Ruby, and etc.

[SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, no, you can't do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, because our state legislatures are owned and operated by the car dealers.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they got a pretty strong lobbying arm.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's other things in both of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you asked about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Or did we talk in the mind-down that we were going to talk about this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was trying to find, we have what we call a retail advertised index.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so far, we don't really see them out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm trying to figure out if this is how much of a one-off this is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, clearly, there's photos of the window sticker and all of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But other enough, you know, to know that how many dealers are really going to try and push this, I think 63,000 dollars per hour to Braille, it is a little bit crazy.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like the $13,000 markup for the BRZ when it first came out.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a $3,000 car and you're making it $43,000 and we saw that my friend was like at a super dealership in the peninsula in the Bay Area and he's like taking pictures to send me that.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, what are you doing?

[SPEAKER_04]: Stop.

[SPEAKER_04]: But someone's going to pay for it.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's a thing.

[SPEAKER_04]: They're going to find one person who's going to be like, [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't mind paying all this money this is what drives me crazy about affordability problems.

[SPEAKER_01]: We keep talking about affordability problems and then people spend $53,000 at a pretty low.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the post to be for you to, yeah, you know, to be fair, you know, given the number of pralues that are expected to be sold, this is probably not going to have a huge impact on the average, but still, it just, it sucks to see dealers taking advantage of people like this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like this, this one particular window sticker that somebody posted here, includes $195 for paint and [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, another $19.95 for the protection package, which is a set of wheel locks, splash guards, and a cargo tray.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can go to auto zone and buy a set of wheel locks for $20.

[SPEAKER_03]: Go to weather tech and get a nice, like, real quality leather.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for, you know, a couple hundred dollars.

[SPEAKER_03]: The Cardock Connect, which who knows without even is, six year service plan, $1,700.

[SPEAKER_03]: The clear shield package protects door edges from dings and chips and protects door handles from scratches 795 dollars.

[SPEAKER_03]: The little plastic strip that could under $1999 for nitrogen-filled tires.

[SPEAKER_03]: People do not raise your money on nitrogen in your tires.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's not a real thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's a real thing if you are running a Formula One race car.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's not you are and or you want to get high rolling down every tire is is crucial and you don't want it to change as the tire heats up You know for everybody else Don't waste money on nitrogen for your tires because When when you put air in your tires 80% of that is already nitrogen to begin with [SPEAKER_03]: because they add the sphere that we breathe is 80% nitrogen.

[SPEAKER_03]: Crazy pills for 400 bucks for all weather floor mats.

[SPEAKER_03]: Again, you could go buy a set of really nice weather tech floor mats for about that same amount of money and they they will actually probably be really good ones as opposed to probably the garbage that this dealer is putting in.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're probably buying some for for 20 bucks from local [SPEAKER_03]: 400 bucks for a bumper shield protects the rear bumper from scratches and $395 for an infotainment shield protects the infotainment screen from smudges and scratches again You could go to Best Buy and buy a $5 screen protector and put it on if you if you must And then and then and then and then and then a $10,000 or just general added markup on top of all that [SPEAKER_04]: I saw a prelude on a car carrier, um, drive down the pump springs.

[SPEAKER_04]: So that was the first time I've seen one in the wild.

[SPEAKER_03]: I saw a carrier with three of the new postal delivery vehicles the other day.

[SPEAKER_04]: Ooh, that's wave-cooler in the pre...

Yeah, sorry.

[SPEAKER_04]: I love the prelude, but, yeah, I mean, the postal carriers are dope.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, we should have talked about the John Drowf one, John Drowf.

[SPEAKER_02]: John Drowf.

[SPEAKER_04]: John Drowf.

[SPEAKER_04]: John Drowf.

[SPEAKER_04]: John.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's on card driver.

[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there's too many people named John.

[SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember it.

[SPEAKER_04]: One's last name.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's a lot of, that's a long list of silly add-ons.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's really easy.

[SPEAKER_01]: You just jump on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Volkert and Volkert drove the, uh, the postal vehicle.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm so jealous of him.

[SPEAKER_03]: I will have to, uh, contact my friends at Oshkosh and see if I can get a drive.

[SPEAKER_03]: But gosh.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um.

[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I can't I would remember seeing that some other show.

[SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember because you know our brains are much because everything just gets slammed together But yeah John got to drive it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry man So the folks at Edmunds have been doing some research on car prices as well, but this particular report is on use car prices And they found that the average transaction price for three-year-old used vehicles [SPEAKER_03]: reached $31,067 in Q3 of this year, which is up 5%.

[SPEAKER_03]: But what was interesting about this was the turn times.

[SPEAKER_03]: The time takes to sell the cars.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, the, uh, average, um, for, see, um, yeah, the average, overall was, um, 41 days, uh, which was up from 37 days in 2024 in the same quarter.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the average turnover rate for EVs for used EVs actually went down, it was only 34 days.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think as the tax incentives for EVs have gone away apart from some state incentives, [SPEAKER_03]: I think, you know, this is an area where a lot of people that are interested in buying an EV are increasingly going to start looking, you know, and because, you know, one of the downsides of EVs is they have, they've had very high depreciation, you know, which depending, you know, if you're selling, that's a downside.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you're buying, it's an upside.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's radical, if you're the one.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's why we bought it used EV6 because you can get it for half the original price.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, on a two-year-old car with, you know, 13,000 miles on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But this is an interesting trend.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be interesting to watch over the next year or so how this evolves, whether we continue to see faster sales of used EVs.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, of course, the prices on those used EVs as the turnover increases in the demand for the used ones goes up.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll probably start to see those prices creeping up, but, you know, they're still a really good deal right now.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we're seeing more and more of the less, you know, for years, it was a lot of compliance vehicles that were in the use market.

[SPEAKER_04]: But now you're seeing like the dedicated EVs and people were like, well, I can't afford a new EV, even with the, you know, the tax credit or whatever.

[SPEAKER_04]: But I can't afford a used EV, especially when they're like stupid cheap because Tesla keeps fluctuating the price and there's a much of other reasons why, you know, EVs are less expensive.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's a pretty great, I mean, you can just look at Sam's biases.

[SPEAKER_04]: This is EV six for like a nickel.

[SPEAKER_04]: When we turn around, when we turn around, when we turn around, it's five.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, well, the payoff on the organic five is higher, because we have a lease.

[SPEAKER_04]: Then we could just buy a used one.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's like $10,000 less expensive than what the payoff is on the organic five.

[SPEAKER_04]: So we'll just do that.

[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe we can get a color besides white.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that higher price kept, that higher payoff kept your lease price lower.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that there's a couple of things, I think that does fully support, that there's, well, EB sales have been struggling a little bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: There is interest, and the more people that are exposed to more curiosity, there is, the more, [SPEAKER_01]: understanding of it is and the more experience keeps coming out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So we're still in that direction.

[SPEAKER_01]: EVs are expensive because they're expensive to build expensive to produce because all the parts in them are expensive for at least the battery.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because the battery is really expensive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_01]: So they're not.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we still have automakers losing money on them.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're not overpriced from that manufacturing perspective, but they're more than what consumers are willing to pay.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the increase in the interest in use, EV is does reflect that if you can get it to a price that consumers see value and they're going to fly it.

[SPEAKER_01]: A more rapidly than they are right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: The question is, try to you do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: and how quickly can we get back to us down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sam, this has been a first thing that we've been talking about for years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it has gotten better, but it's not better now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and, you know, there's going to be a lot more progress on that in the next two three years.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, as we start to get domestic production of LFP batteries ramping up, also, you know, bringing LMR batteries, the lithium, the manganese rich cells to market, that's going to help.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's going to be a significant help in allowing manufacturers to build these vehicles [SPEAKER_03]: You know, but, you know, there's, you know, even right now, you know, there's still some great deals out there on used EVs, you know, I got, I just pulled up auto trader, you know, here's a used 2023 EV6, 15,000 miles on it, 19,500 dollars.

[SPEAKER_03]: What?

[SPEAKER_03]: I think this will might be the base model with the shorter range though.

[SPEAKER_04]: This was a 230, 250.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but, you know, there's one, there's one pretty much, like, Stephanie's gonna buy that car, who you guys said they're sent her the link.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's one, hold on, there's one, pretty much like the one that we just bought, you know, an all-wheel drive, you know, I paid 27 for it with 13 and a half thousand miles on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: This one's got 15,000 miles, it's $29,000.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot, you know, there's a lot of them here for between $20 or $30,000, you know, for, you know, one to two year old EV6.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just, you know, ionic fives are similarly priced.

[SPEAKER_04]: Because they have a two year, because Hyundai does two year, the Hyundai Motor Group does two year leases, like our group fires a two year lease, the previous was three years.

[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so, you know, you're getting these, you know, two-year-old cars for, like, almost half with a huge discount, 40 something percent off, and it's still an 800 volt vehicle, it's still, you know, that means the charges quicker, even it has lower range and something that's, that's new, you're going to probably charge quicker than most of the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting, I pulled up Karvanikas for doing this, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I've just scrolling through a quickly, we've got one, two, three, four, or EVs, murals, and EVs, sixes with price drops.

[SPEAKER_01]: So what are you wanting to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are we going to do today?

[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, light.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, was $22,990.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's $2,2,590, and another one with $93,000 was $18,990, and now it's $18,590.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of interesting in this conversation to see that there's a bunch of price drops on these.

[SPEAKER_04]: By the end of the episode, we're all going to buy new cars.

[SPEAKER_04]: What do you guys think?

[SPEAKER_04]: We all bought new EVs, are used to EVs.

[SPEAKER_04]: Why?

[SPEAKER_04]: Because there were so stupid cheap.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, the thing to keep in mind, you know, if you're buying, you know, two or even a three year old EV like this, you know, these things have 10 year, 100,000 mile warranties on the batteries, you know, and one of the key, one of the people, one of the reasons people give for not wanting to buy used EV is not knowing what the battery condition is.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you've got seven, eight years of warranty on the battery, what do you worry about?

[SPEAKER_03]: Just go for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And Hyundai and Kia have five years and I think 60,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty on these things.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so, you know, in our case, you know, we bought a two-year-old car, you know, had three years and 40,000, over 40,000 miles of bumper to bumper warranty, eight years and 80,000 miles of battery warranty on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's, we're loving it, it's doing great.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I think now, you know, if you have any interest in an EV, you know, in buying an EV, [SPEAKER_03]: And you looked at the prices of new ones, you know, there's certainly more affordable new ones coming to market now, the new Nissan Leaf, the new Bolt coming first to the year, and there's going to be other stuff, and even some of the others, you know, have had price drops like the Ionic 5, you know, it's down to starts at 35,000 now.

[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, these used.

[SPEAKER_03]: these used ones are still some screaming deals on them, and I'm not surprised that in a lot of cases, I don't know what's going on at Carvana, but certainly a lot of other dealers are turning them around a lot faster.

[SPEAKER_04]: I can get an Ionic 5 for 35 or 25 that's an SE let's see but here's an SE with green that's green oh who's the SEL that's what we have right now it's black one it's 25 which is $10,000 less than the payoff when we turn in our our our vehicle so he's like so what are you gonna do I'll make well what he got on the lat that's used it's $10,000 cheaper than what you're trying to sell me this car for [SPEAKER_03]: As long as we're talking about Kia EVs, the EV-5 Weekender, last year at Sima showed the PV-5, which is their van, their electric van, and Weekender form, which was an off-road, lifted off-road, kind of overlanding version of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And at the Guangzhou Motor Show in China, Kia showed off a concept version of the EV5, which is their mid-sized electric crossover.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's about the same size as a sportage, or a Hyundai Tucson, or a RAF4.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's an off-road version, kind of like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: More, you know, more than what you get with something like the 5xRT, the thing is lifted, it's on big all terrain tires, it's got all kinds of gear, this thing looks pretty cool for, you know, for an off-road crossover, but, no, no plans to sell the EV5 in North America, and they are just macaroni, it's Asia only right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, boo, I guess it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like a scale down version of the EV nine.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, it's on Canada.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no [SPEAKER_03]: And it's got recovery hooks on it too, so, you know, it's a real off-road.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, you know, EV five is going to be sold in Canada in 2026.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, excellent.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, this is this is going to the turn.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to show that, dear.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just gone, just go, uh, just drive, you know, go over the bridge to Windsor and buy one there and bring it back.

[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as I get to over the whole, [SPEAKER_00]: And the amount of homologation stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's still, thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have to, maybe again.

[SPEAKER_01]: How important is it to import a Canadian spec car to the US?

[SPEAKER_03]: Canadian spec is usually pretty much the same as US spec.

[SPEAKER_03]: But not always, most stuff sold in Canada is built to the same spec other than having this pedometer set in kilometers per hour instead of miles per hour, but sometimes they sell stuff there that does not meet U.S.

spec.

[SPEAKER_04]: There's a, we looked up, my brother just moved to Canada.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's just, yeah, not the worst idea in the world.

[SPEAKER_04]: My brother and I looked up like bringing cards over from Mexico.

[SPEAKER_04]: And when you bring the car over, you essentially have to be the owner of the car, and you have to have an address in Mexico in order to bring it into United States.

[SPEAKER_04]: Which isn't that, let me, it's not difficult for me and my brother, because we have family in Mexico with homes.

[SPEAKER_04]: And so.

[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we could just buy a house in Mexico so we can get a chimney.

[SPEAKER_04]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_04]: And then you're like, you know, it's not to make sure that your local police department doesn't give a, you know, and give it, you're like, you're like, doing problem is, you know, right now, if you did that and brought it over, you'd be driving it around on Mexican plates, right?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so that would potentially make you a target for certain federal agencies.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so, but they can just click and pull me over and I can be like, oh shoot, just a white guy.

[SPEAKER_04]: But like, wait, wait, wait, what about this Roberto?

[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, what about it?

[SPEAKER_04]: What do you want for me?

[SPEAKER_03]: Last name's Baldwin.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's what he's not Baldwin.

[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, I'm a haphaze.

[SPEAKER_03]: see what else oh you're on cap so you're on cap is the new car assessment program Europe you know it's kind of similar to the end cap program here where they you know do safety evaluations of new cars and give it a rating out of five stars and like most of these programs you know the ihs is top safety pick and in cap and others [SPEAKER_03]: From time to time, they raise the standards for what it takes to get a five-star rating, because once everybody starts getting four and five stars, they make it tougher to earn those top ratings, because they want to keep moving safety forward.

[SPEAKER_03]: So for 2026, they're updating the NCAPS, the Euro NCAPS standards.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there's several things that they're changing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And among those is that, let's see, to get top scores, they will have to have driver monitor systems that track eye-and-head movements of the drivers and use that information to adjust the sensitivity of driver's system functions.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, if you are paying less attention, and you know, you want to make it more sensitive so it can respond faster if you're starting to get into trouble.

[SPEAKER_03]: But, see what else they're, they are also changing the scoring to evaluate the accuracy of speed limit recognition functions.

[SPEAKER_03]: So these are cameras that are looking at speed limit signs and adjusting, and you're up there required to now to have automatically adjusting cruise control that adjust to the speed limit, the local speed limit.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they're also evaluating the real-world performance of some of the trash prevention technologies, like automatic emergency braking and lane keep assist, because if you've ever used those systems, you know, they can be a little flaky and oftentimes be more annoying than helpful.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so they want to make sure that these systems actually work, so the drivers will trust them and leave them turned on instead of turning them off.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then what else?

[SPEAKER_03]: Post trust safety.

[SPEAKER_03]: Electric door handles must now remain functional after an accident, and EVs must correctly manage the isolation of their batteries to mitigate any fire risk.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, if it crashes detected, you know, it's got to isolate the battery, so it's not sending power to the rest of the vehicle.

[SPEAKER_03]: But things like the door handles must remain fully functional.

[SPEAKER_03]: to get top safety marks.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then there's also something about physical controls.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Here we go.

[SPEAKER_03]: They will evaluate the placement, clarity, and ease of use of essential controls and a new scoring system will emphasize the importance of physical buttons for commonly used functions in response to consumer feedback that suggests they can reduce distraction.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ribbons got to be so angry.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Our J is not going to be happy about that one.

[SPEAKER_03]: what I have to pay money just interesting one in here too on my urge emergency response functions will now need to be able to tell responders how many occupants are in the car oh yeah yeah that's an interesting good one yeah so if you get into a crash you know there needs to be sensors in there can tell what ambulances know you know how many people are going to have to deal with [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's a good thing to have, because if they have that, if there's, let's say there, you've got to, you know, five passengers in the vehicle, maybe you have to send out two ambulances or three ambulances instead of just one to make sure you can take care of everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yeah, that makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: in the antelope, the street limit recognition is really not for consistent at least in my experience here.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I remember one time.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're very difficult.

[SPEAKER_03]: A few years ago, when we were doing a first drive for the Lincoln Coursera.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there was driving along, and the speed limit was 55.

[SPEAKER_03]: Or speed limit was 65.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then it passed a sign that was dropping down to 55.

[SPEAKER_03]: and all of a sudden the cruise control switched from the speed I had it set at to 85.

[SPEAKER_03]: It had misread the sign as 85 instead of 55.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it just hit the speed upwards by 20 miles an hour.

[SPEAKER_03]: Woo!

[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it had the Robbie mode.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember talking with Lincoln at the time and talking and forward on a different vehicle that was having a similar issue.

[SPEAKER_01]: And and they're interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you could just turn the system off.

[SPEAKER_01]: You don't like the way it works.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You expected somebody to work in the way.

[SPEAKER_04]: Make it work.

[SPEAKER_04]: How about just make it work correctly.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you're going to put a feature in the car, make sure it works.

[SPEAKER_04]: Especially from the thing that does that work off.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, why did you really something that doesn't work?

[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, some sort of calibration between what it reads and the, you know, the navigation or G of being able to help with GPS being able to follow exactly where you're at there's more cities.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had there was a consistent issue on 696.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just going sort of part and it picked up four lanes on 696 and it would pick up the 40 mile an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, sign for the service drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: All that's adjacent to the highway control.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, got Chris control 75 and all of the sudden it is hard breaking in the middle of the freeway.

[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the first time it freaks me out the second time I'm like, okay, I know what's happening.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not really quickly, but only that that was dangerous.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, you know, so, and, and I'm sure they've improved it a bit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Since then, I haven't worked calling.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can sing.

[SPEAKER_01]: what's going on here and they're like this kind of known issue or kind of but it was weird like I'm in the, you know, three lanes away from where it even read the sign at.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, Volvo's, you know, oftentimes I, you know, would come on out of street that's 25 miles an hour and turn left and the new street is 35 miles an hour.

[SPEAKER_01]: But there's three quarter months of a mile till it's a new sign.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I grew's control on at that point.

[SPEAKER_01]: But for that, that's three quarters of a mile or a mile.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was telling you that I was going to fast for the candidate that I was at the speeding and I wasn't, you know, those those science systems aren't quite ready to be fully reliable.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think.

[SPEAKER_03]: yeah definitely.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right, a couple of charging-related stories, despite the fact that our federal government has tried to kill all the funding, all the federal funding for the Navi program for the which is $5 billion from the 2021 Infrastructure Act that's supposed to help fund deployment [SPEAKER_03]: The courts have said, nope, you cannot block that funding.

[SPEAKER_03]: You have to keep spending it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So last week, the Georgia DOT, which is, you know, that's a state that is run by the same party.

[SPEAKER_03]: They awarded $24 million for 26 new EV charging stations across the state of Georgia.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a little while.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, multiple, multiple.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's there's there and Georgia was one of the states that had that had a pre-descent state level and sent out for a while.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, there's a poll that out sales and the EV sales on that state drop like a storm.

[SPEAKER_01]: But and so the point being Georgia has been a little bit more aggressive on this than some states already.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so they're putting these stations in a bunch of different locations around the state with quite a few different vendors that are operating these stations.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's, you know, pilot travel centers, silver common energy, power up America, where else.

[SPEAKER_03]: love travel stops and virus parks.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's a bunch of different ones.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's spreading the money around and all this is good.

[SPEAKER_03]: It helps get more infrastructure, more high-speed charging infrastructure.

[SPEAKER_03]: Part of the program is requirements for reliability and uptime.

[SPEAKER_03]: If they want to get the money, [SPEAKER_03]: So, hopefully that part is being enforced so that, you know, when they put these chargers in there they don't just get, you know, put in and then abandoned, you know, hopefully they will actually take the, make the effort to keep them running properly over time.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was one of the good things about the program to begin with.

[SPEAKER_01]: Was it a set aside a bunch of sort of consistent requirements that had to happen in order to get your federal funding, which was stop sort of making it mandated that charging stations had to had plug and play and we have the uptime and all that.

[SPEAKER_01]: But by putting it as a requirement to get funding, it's [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, robot taxis, all the robot taxis that are out on the road today, particularly the real ones, you know, that actually drive on supervised.

[SPEAKER_03]: They, they're all electric vehicles right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: including Waymo's Jaguar eyepaces and zikers and soon they're Hyundai ionic fives and in Santa Monica, Waymo has two lots where they bring their vehicles for cleaning and service and charging.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the city of Santa Monica recently issued a new regulation that effectively bans went way more from overnight charging at those two lots that they own for their for the rubbo taxis.

[SPEAKER_03]: which is not very helpful.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a six to nothing vote and they they have to cease overnight operations at those two facilities because they got a lot of complaints from neighbors that you know the vehicles make in too much the vehicles are making too much noise in the EVs but yeah [SPEAKER_03]: Beep all night back up on a beepers, and the chargers themselves, you know, from the transformers, there's a hum from that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so people were just the locals were complaining too much.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so now they are no longer allowed to operate from those two facilities between 11 p.m.

and 6 a.m.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just it's helpful if you're trying to do that.

[SPEAKER_04]: But if you live next to a place that before didn't do that and that like if you move next to the airport I don't want to hear you complain.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if you move next to a club, I don't want to hear you complain But if you live next to like just a place and then suddenly all night [SPEAKER_04]: That's yeah, and that's to be to be honest.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's how Silicon Valley works is they don't take an into account anything Yeah about the the community when they when they when they deploy They don't they don't take about the unintended consequences of their actions Which has been a problem with them for 15 20 years at this point [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so yeah, that was, I mean, there's a lot of space.

[SPEAKER_04]: I'll also send Monica so expensive.

[SPEAKER_04]: How do they, where are they paying for it?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they own a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't say how many charges are in each lot.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this article says they own the lots.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm guessing they are probably actually leasing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I doubt they actually own the properties.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they're going to have to find somewhere else to do their charging that is not going to be annoying to neighbors.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, which might be difficult in a place like Santa Monica.

[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean Santa Monica, yes, but there's a lot of areas around that area, you know, there's a lot of industrial zones that they could be, especially when they're, you know, close the airport.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you just, you get a place close to the airport and then no one cares because guess what?

[SPEAKER_04]: You're close to the airport.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the thing is, well, they're trying to close Santa Monica airport.

[SPEAKER_03]: So you would have to, you know, everything goes to the next closest airport with the LAX.

[SPEAKER_03]: The thing is, if you have to go long distances like that, from Santa Monica to LAX, drive to LAX, to recharge, or to get the vehicle cleaned, things like that, that's a challenge for the economics of running 11 miles from Santa Monica to LAX.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think it only feels like it's 100 miles.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and only feel, I mean, if you're already on the west side, I used to be a runner for a studio.

[SPEAKER_04]: If you're on the west side, it's fine moving around, especially at night.

[SPEAKER_04]: It's getting from the east side to the west side where it's a problem.

[SPEAKER_04]: A Santa Monica is a giant.

[SPEAKER_04]: cluster no matter what.

[SPEAKER_04]: But if you're in Santa Monica and you go to the airport, you've never, you know, cruising over to the 10 to the 405.

[SPEAKER_04]: We're just taking surface streets and it takes like 30 minutes.

[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's not the, it's not the end of the world if they have to move to an industrial zone.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, with that, um, I think let's, let's call it a show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and we'll be back next week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for bringing it back.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for joining us, Steph, appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Talk to everybody next time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.