1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Josephine: Foresight is as much about the analysis of all of these various singles as it is about simply being curious about the world. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000 But one of the things that really struck me as we chatted is that as a creative, and I think this will be true to so many of you listening as creatives and small business owners, a lot of what Joe talks about in this episode, I actually do really instinctively, I just didn't necessarily have the language or the words. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,000 ~So ~have a listen. Let me know what you think. ~As always, ~I wanna hear your thoughts ~too, ~and ~I wanna ~carry on the conversation. ~So come ~find me at Liz at Mosley or at Building your Brand podcast and definitely check out in the show notes the amazing resources that Joe shared with me. 4 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Do go and have a watch if you haven't seen haven't seen it. And it's back then in the early two thousands, fashion was very much more about the kind of conceptual nature the kind of the spectral and really making people think about the wider world. ~Anyway ~this show ~is, it both ~plays on ~the kind of ~the darker side. 5 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,000 ~And ~since then, I have worked with both really big, global brands people from John Lewis to not on the high street to the likes of Heineken as well as small businesses as well. So when I was at, not on the high street, obviously working with small partners to really understand how to navigate change, ~to understand how they can, ~drive ~kind of ~cultural resonance ~for their brands, both now and in the future.~ 6 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,000 But at the heart of it, it's about ~what are those ~human truths that remain? So in 10 years time, me and you are still gonna wanna connect with people in the same way. They're still gonna value, being loved by someone, or they're still gonna value, like the joy that you might get from watching ~a ~TV ~program ~or ~some really ~cool ~bit of like ~beauty packaging. 7 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,000 ~It ~today, ~and ~we'll talk ~a little bit more ~about ~what kind of ~foresight ~is ~and ~about ~how brands can look at Thoses. But yeah, one of the things that I wanted to say upfront was that it's really important not to lose the power of feeling, ~because ultimately, ~if you are selling a product or ~you are ~creating a brand campaign, one of your biggest questions is, how do I want that person to feel? 8 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,000 For me, I would define that more as ~what you might call ~ fads and ~actually ~trends or foresight, ~which are effectively are ~the same slash very kind of similar things in its very kind of basic kind of framework is looking at the signals. Which point to where the future is gonna go. And there is this classic quote which is that, the future is already here. 9 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,000 And I think what a lot of businesses struggle with, and understandably the world is not short of information. We already know. We are like data overloaded. So there is so much that is out there. I think the key is knowing what's important for your brand. ~I would say for ~most businesses ~you ~don't need ~to do ~big, ~scenario ~horizon scanning for the next decade. 10 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,000 And then they take what they've learned from what they're doing and they've applied it to themselves, and to ~their, like, how they can position that in ~their industry. I ~totally ~get why it's been rebranded to Foresight ~because I think ~trend forecasting is ~actually like quite ~ misleading in terms of what ~it is that that it, that ~you're doing. 11 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 ~But ~there is a role of foresight within fashion ~instead of moving away from. ~Where fashion is ~right ~now, which is able to look at, celebrity, whatever trend and be able to, put it out on shelves within literally a matter of weeks. When I started in forecasting 20 years ago, you used to be able to predict two to three years ahead ~and ~a lot of ~the ~fashion retailers would follow that. 12 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,000 ~I would say ~for small businesses, ~always big, ~be aware of what's going on. I don't, as I said, I don't think you necessarily need to do horizon scanning like all ~of ~the time. It's that awareness. What I would say is be curious and be. Always spotting things. And I know this used to drive my friends wild but I used to ~just ~stop in ~the middle of ~the street ~and just ~take pictures ~of ~it might be a poster ~of some club ~or ~it might be pick up ~a magazine. 13 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,000 So I would say, look around you. But don't solely look at what is online. ~That a big, actually ~a big cultural shift ~that is ~happening ~right ~now that people need to be aware of is things ~are ~going underground, going offline, ~and, your ~chat GPTs ~and all of that they ~can't access that. 14 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Josephine: ~I but no, ~look up. ~Things like ~ cultural strategists. ~There's ~a number of foresight, people ~I can give names. There's a lady called, and I'm sorry if I butcher her name. ~Amy Kra, 15 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,000 The exhibitions ~that they're doing and they ~are a really good signal of kind of things that are happening within the next sort of two, three years. Obviously foresight you can go 10, 20 years, but I think for small businesses you're probably looking around the kind of two to three year mark when you are developing. 16 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Like, how are they doing that? And what are some of the, the sort of the trends that you ~are ~seeing, ~whether it's in, ~in packaging or signage. ~I think all of those elements are really important. ~Keep yourself inspired. Foresight is as much about the analysis of all ~of ~these ~various ~singles as it is about ~simply ~being curious about the world. 17 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,000 ~And I guess that's not anything new, but ~it was ~almost like ~a sped up timeline, ~wasn't it? Of how those, how ~culture shifted because ~like ~we were ~physically ~forced to stay home for this set period of time. And then obviously after that were massively craving going out. And so there was like, you had these two extremes, but within the space of maybe three years. 18 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000 Josephine: Yeah, I think COVID was ~a really interesting one. It's what people call ~a black swan event, some might argue that something similar to that could have been forecasted. But I think the important thing with COVID and as you said, what it did do was that a lot of the underlying human behaviors or the trends that we were seeing were just accelerated at such a pace, whether it's even like online retail, ~even like ~certain generations that weren't using online retail, ~let's say. They had to like, they ~were ~literally ~forced to use it. And then the adoption of that has been created At the time I was actually I was ~working both ~at, not on the High Street and then at John Lewis. What was interesting when you say about small business and COVID was that for those ~that were really ~quick to adopt ~it, ~it was ~obviously really ~great, but it was also, you had to be really quick understanding what was the, your human impact. 19 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:19,000 ~And obviously the likes of, ~AI has been around for a ~really ~long time, but the adoption of generative ai, like chat GBT, has like radically changed a lot of facets of the way in which we live. 20 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,000 ~I forgot what you just said there, but yeah, I think ~ultimately it is about human behavior ~and there are, when we talk about ~foresight, these are not just year trends. These ~are things that ~have been happening for 5, 10, 15 years. ~They are ~just seen in different ways. ~So ~for example, ~if we think about ~sustainability~ we could have a whole separate conversation about that, about how actually even just ~the language ~of sustainability ~is changing towards climate resilience. 21 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Let's get into AI ~because yeah, like you said, it is been around for ages. I guess ~the massive shift has been generative ai. Talk to me about where you think things are going, ~like ~what you are seeing as someone in foresight when it comes to ai. 22 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:22,000 ~Because ~typically a countertrend might take ~some ~time, but people are realizing ~a, ~the ~kind of dehumanizing, ~dehumanizing elements of kind of ai. But also I think increasingly businesses are understanding the limitations and the impacts of ai. ~So ~the environmental impacts of ai, I can't give you the exact what the data is, but compared to if you were to use a Google, the impact, like physical impacts of electricity, of water, the data centers is huge. 23 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,000 So that, if anyone was like really concerned about that, there, there are limitations of that. I think the second piece, which is a really interesting one is that, and this is something that we had spotted and so speaking to him was a really good way of validating that was that people that we might call change makers, ~so people that are ~on ~the kind of ~the edges of culture are already. 24 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,000 ~And I was saying, ~there's a reason why there's not a thousand lady Gaga, there's not a thousand Picassos. That is what makes you different as a human being. ~And ~the counter movement is seeing ~more and ~more people. Look towards those human elements. ~People are already, if they see a brand and it look, and you can tell, if ~the text ~from a brand ~looks like it's being done by ai, they will not want to engage. 25 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,000 The role, as I said, within foresight in terms of they're the kind of the people that you wanna get inspiration ~from, ~but ~the role in terms of ~retaining what makes us human, ~what makes us different, I think ~is ~so ~important. And it's not just a, oh, this is nice design. It is a kind of a societal shift. And even, and I won't go into it here, but he was talking about the rise of AI linked to the rise of the far right and why that kind of, all of those things. But by the counter movement against that also links to grassroot movements. So you can see how that links to those big kind of macro forces that we spoke about upfront. And the reason why that yes, obviously we're not, I'm not saying ~like ~for brands not to play around with ai. 26 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,000 Or, the rise of community is another thing that I'm really passionate about. I ~actually ~went to an event last night with Emma Jane Palin, who owns an amazing do look her up. She's a creative, a content creator, but also owns this incredible DIY shop, but also has vintage runs workshops called R Curated A Boat. 27 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,000 what other people~ are doing. Yeah. ~Lean into it more ~and I think the ~foresight is important to understand how you market, ~be, how you ~ develop posts, but ultimately ~if you're creating something, start from that.~ 28 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,000 ~And like ~the resurgence of ~like ~screen printing and ~all these kind of ~more laborious techniques. Like I, I, even just like people's love vinyl, like you mentioned cassette tapes. I do think we're gonna go more back to that kind of thing where people really value the craftsmanship, they value, the story behind why it's made all of that kind of thing. 29 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,000 Josephine: Yeah, and ~even like ~within, the field ~that ~I work in, ~like ~particularly ~within ~innovation. ~The real kind of ultimately what ~brands come to us for ~are obviously we have a lot of work. We create what we call kind of ~ideation spaces, ~which kind of ~a mix of trends looking kind of cross category. 30 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Josephine: thinking differently, not being limited by. ~All the other kind of ~things ~that are ~happening around us. ~And ~sometimes ~that is, is just what ~you need to ~do. ~Get in a room, with ~your ~ colleagues and ~just really have a ~think about your brand. 31 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,000 ~And ~we're coming up to Christmas, we know ~that ~when brands get it wrong, people will tell them. ~And a lot of the time it's because ~the ~overall kind of ~purpose of the campaign might have been right, but the execution, not understanding what is going on in society or the way that emotion ~has been ~reflected is not right for that moment. 32 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Josephine: ~Exactly. ~I'm being ~just really ~honest ~as well. Like ~I follow this amazing artist that was like, I'm really happy I've had all of these followers, like 20, 30,000 followers, but I'm so overwhelmed. Like it's just, and I think people wanna hear, they don't wanna see ~all the ~perfection because, I think as human beings and as a society, we've already got so many pressures of having perfect lives and all of that. 33 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Liz: jump on the trend. ~Yeah. And that ~I did ~a podcast, a solo ~ podcast episode about this recently. And I did it as a guest on someone else's, ~but this idea that, like ~a trend. Can go wrong ~in the sense that, ~like you said, if McDonald's co-ops this word that's ~not then ~not something ~that ~you wanna be associated with, ~but ~it could ~potentially ~have a negative impact on your brand. 34 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,000 ~So ~Coca-Cola for example, not best example, but they for a long time kind of tapped into happiness. I think they did it about 15 years. And interesting enough last year and ~then ~this year ~as well, ~they're tapping into connection. ~So ~there was an ad ~last year, it was a really interesting one ~where ~it was ~people that were like, say if you've not seen someone for ages, I dunno why you'd be holding like a drinking ad, but they were going up and they were so excited to see that person that you see, like the coat just goes all over the place. 35 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 ~And then ~I used to put it into folders, but ~also ~ be aware of ~what's happening in ~the wider world. ~Like ultimately ~those are the macro forces. ~I don't think as I said, ~small businesses don't need to do that themselves. There is loads of reports. Do have a look at the ones that I ~just ~mentioned that can give you an idea ~of what is happening.~ 36 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,000 So have a look at music. Who's ~somebody that is like ~talking about emerging music? Who in the art world is ~a really ~good ~one ~to follow? There's an amazing podcast ~by two guys that are fairly local to me, actually ~called art Talks, ~and ~they speak to different artists. ~So that's a great example.~ 37 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,000 They might want hyper-personalized things. So you just need to be aware ~of ~nothing is in silo. Everything works together As one. Look at yourself, look at the people around you. How are they reacting? And what are you, what shifts are you? And that is often like a really good way of doing.