Welcome to the Toll podcast.

I'm Garrett Ryan, and my guest today is Matthew Blair.

Matthew, welcome to the program.

Hi, doctor Ryan.

Hey, everyone.

Fantastic to be here.

It been a huge fan of the channel for a very long time.

So, like, you know, finally, you know, being here is is absolutely amazing.

So...

Oh, well, very glad to hear.

Has pleasure to have you on as well.

So it's a typically Matthew The people on my show are dry is dust academic.

And you've had a much more interesting career path.

So if you please tell a little bit about yourself and about what you do, to want this into this whole thing.

Yeah.

Not, you know, not to say academia academia is necessarily tri boring, but, yeah, It's it's been a little little bit different.

I I do have a bachelor's.

So, like, you know, that...

That's...

About as far as I've been.

But, like, I I was a...

I have a bachelor's in history from...

Steps University, and, I've been a fan of ancient history since I couldn't...

Since I knew how to read, but the reason why I'm here today is because I write comic books or at least I aspire a a comic books for a living.

Piece of advice it's extremely difficult to watch get to a point where you can, make a living off of it.

But If you've been a fan of the Youtube channel for a while, you've probably maybe seen, ads for the, book I'm doing it for the book, I'm, talking about, for this podcast interview, Modest Magic k, this 1 right here.

So...

Mh.

Yeah.

We've got 2 issues out so far, and we've got a third 1 funding on kickstarter.

So, you know, that's, you know, who I am and where I come from and why we're here today.

Oh, well, fantastic.

So launch right into the heart of this interview.

What makes comics a unique way to tell stories?

Alright.

Yeah.

So, believe it or not, there's actually...

Some debate over what a comment actually is, which seems, you know, hard to believe, but, you know, it was never really us, it it was never really discussed and it was never really, formalized.

If you're someone like me, there's a very sort of broad definition of what that means.

I believe it's just, you know, stories told with pictures.

So if you're...

You know, if you go by that very broad definition, there's, you know, a lot of things over what is a comic...

Or, what is a comic?

You know, you go back to, like, ancient history, you have, like, cave paintings.

And then, like, you go to, like the Egyptians, they have, like, you know, these the these massive sort of tableau of, like, life painted on, like, the walls of, far tombs.

But you also have things like, you know, statues and F and...

All that stuff you would find an ancient greece in Rome and, like, you know, these these...

What what you would see on like Vivo...

As well, Like, you know, these these stories instead of paper they're told in stone, which is, you know, a fantastic way of putting things, someone should really jump on that but, I mean, the the the real, like, what what we think of comics really started, really sort of kicked off with the advent of the printing press as most things did.

And so the challenge of story of telling a story back then is how do you impart information to an audience that doesn't necessarily know how to read very well.

And the answer is pictures.

So you have, like, you know, in the early days of the printing press, like early days.

You have, like, medieval pamphlet volunteers, who would, you know, deliver news on, like, you know, the these you know, sheets of, cheap paper, and, like, you know, they'd have you know, pictures to, you know, explain what's going on.

And then, eventually, what that would involve...

Would evolve into would be newspapers, and it started off with, like, editorial cartoons, which were like, the the big ones.

Mh.

And, eventually, it morph into, sort of like, the first sort of great age of comic books, which were, newspaper strips.

You know, these these really rose into popularity in, like, the late 18 hundreds, especially in in the United States where you would have, like, pulitzer us and hurst, they would compete to who could for who would sell more newspapers.

And, comics were a big part of that.

You have, strips like Felix the cat by Pat Sullivan.

You have my adventures of, my adventures the adventures of Little Ne and Slumber land by Mh.

Windsor Mack mckay, and you have, like, the political cartoons of Thomas Nas.

Who if you don't know who that is, he's the reason why you know what Santa Claus looks like.

Mh.

Absolutely dead serious.

And so, you know, you have, so that's that's what it is.

It's a way to tell...

Stories with pictures, and sometimes words.

And then eventually, what, you know, that evolved into was, people would start collecting, like, collections of strip of, newspaper strips into a book format, and that's How we eventually got to comic books.

So it's it's a very rich and detailed history, but it's also, like, very very recent.

Like, we're talking about people who, you know, this is still living memory for some people as opposed to, you know, ancient where, ancient days where we don't you know, no recollection.

And, you know, no 1 no 1 remembers the...

No no 1 living remembers the Roman Empire.

But Right.

Yeah...

So, Okay.

Well, that's a nice way of putting up both that longer history of comics as our visual art captioned or otherwise.

And then more recent history in in pulp media.

Right?

You know, newspapers above all and then eventually the comic book.

And you know, I I often think about medieval manuscripts often have these wacky g texts in the margins, which have an interplay with the text we're often a Bible or a a tome or something.

And it's it's almost a whether it's material whatever else is.

It's an interplay.

And so there is a long tradition of this.

But, course, context as we know them are a hundred years old give or take and comic books even more recent.

So thinking about this recent more narrow definition of comics as, you know, the book format we're familiar with.

How test the very broad question first.

How have comics in this form been linked to ancient history and mythology?

Alright.

So it wasn't initially linked to the Greeks and Roman.

The early comics and cartoons that we saw from the 18 hundreds, were very of their time, and they were very they were a lot more concerned with, you know, the, you know, the common man like a lot of...

Early cartoons were set, like, the slums of New York City.

So there wasn't a whole lot of room for ancient Greek Roman Mythology.

You know, not to say that, modern, not to say that the classics are sn, but, historically speaking, the, classics were reserved for the wealthy and powerful.

With that said, you see this in a lot of like, political cartoons where, like, you have characters like Columbia and Britannia, who assume like, the trapping.

Mh.

Of, Greek roman imagery, like, you know, the dress, the helmet, the, like perceived ideals of what you know, we thought the Greeks romans were.

With that being said, probably the moment where comic books became irr linked, to ancient history and mythology was with Superman.

Mh.

The first superhero that everyone knows is, superman which was August of 19...

Which was published in ninth...

August of 19 38.

You know, there there were Pro heroes in the pulp, like, you know, you did have, like, you know, the phantom.

You had Z.

You had conan in the Barbarian who, had you know, the names and, trapping of ancient history, but, like, in a fantasy setting.

I believe Ronnie Howard was a huge fan of Bronze age history, but he hated, like, you know, constantly have to tell people, oh, like, you know, the name of this names of these People and, like, the names of this person, that sort of thing.

So he changed it.

So he just created his entire mythology out of his love of history, people but, you know, not in history.

Mh.

And I think it's important to, you know, talk about superheroes, when it comes to comics because, like, a lot of people have internalized that.

Like, we...

Like, some some people call superheroes, modern mythology And I think that, you know, that doesn't mean something and that does matter a lot.

You have, you know, Superman who, you know, who is he?

He's...

A, baby cast drift into space and sent to a you know, a foreign land that he doesn't know where he has to you know, lead people...

He has to lead the people of Earth to sort of higher ideal.

Like, you know, that's, you know, the trapping of Moses.

Which makes sense because, you know, the guys who created them, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shu were Jewish.

Mh.

So, like, you know, that, you know, that...

That...

That's something that they really internalized.

You have characters like S.

Who...

It's a little complicated.

S suzanne was not published by Dc and he wasn't called S.

He was called Captain Marvel first.

But, you know, it's a 15 year...

It's a it's a little kid who says this magic word becomes this big powerful hero.

And, like, the word S is actually...

It's an ana.

It...

It stands for the wisdom of Solomon, the courage of achilles, the lightning of Zeus, the strength of Atlas and the speed of mercury.

So, you know, AAA child with the power of literal gods.

Mh.

He actually outs outsource Superman for a large portion of the 19 forties, but there was a lawsuit because, Dc thought that he was a little too similar to Superman and portion, Dc 1.

And, in the 19 fifties, there was a bit of a moral backlash comics.

So, the the publisher of S, Captain Marvel actually went out of business.

And in the sixties, marvel comics, publisher became, was, like, you know, oh, you know, we have this character named Captain Marvel.

He's named after our company.

And they just got bought by our competition.

So we have to make sure we have the name Marvel in order to...

It it's it's a whole thing.

Yeah.

Mh.

But you also have, you know, ties to actual, like.

Classical literature as well.

Mh.

There's a publisher called timely comics in the 19 forties that would eventually become marvel comics, 1 of their characters is name or the submarine mariner.

But, which doesn't really have any ties agent history, but he's the king of At.

So, yeah.

So there's there's that.

Pseudo history and crack archaeology has little to no place in Na academia, Academia, but, great place in popular culture as well.

Like, you know, if you go further in the 19 sixties, timely comics becomes marvel comics, Marvel comics is helm by Stanley and Jack Kirby, We all know who Stan Lee is.

Jack Kirby was the artist who drew most of the characters that we know today.

And Jack Kirby, you ever...

Have you ever read a book called, cherries of the Gods, I or heard of it and avoided it studio as an academic.

Right.

Yeah.

Jack Kirby did not avoid it.

He was out...

A huge fan of that.

So...

Yes.

If you ever saw a movie called the eternal.

Don't worry if you haven't seen it, no 1 did, Jack Kirby was a huge fan of like, the ancient aliens theory and all that.

And so you have characters like...

Dr, Fin, fast, like, not that that they're not you know, the the gods directly, but, you know, you can you can see, like, little bits of it.

Like, Mh.

Fast is based off of of a Hep asbestos, all that.

But...

And I and I promise this getting to a the to a point.

But the big hero, the the the the 1 that everyone thinks of.

Well, I I say everyone.

But, like, the the 1 that is most associated with ancient Greek mythology especially.

Mh.

Is wonder woman.

Right.

Who, you know, stop a random person on the street and be like, oh, superhero here's a Creek pathology.

Oh, wonder woman wonder woman is weird.

Like, so Wonder woman was created by a man named Willie Mo Mars, and he was a professor of, ecology or psychiatry.

I don't remember which 1 at Harvard.

And, he was also I'm love to use the word radical feminist, but he was a strong believer in the idea that women were inherently superior to men and that like, the the the rise of domestic machines to make home life easier would allow women to assume their rightful place as sort of, like, the the the document part of doc dominant half of the species, this is the 19 forties by the way, you know, and he...

He's writing this.

He's also the guy that created the...

You you know how when you have, like, the lie detectors, they put, like, the the heartbeat monitor on your chest.

He invented that.

So, like, you know, wonder woman and the Lasso of truth.

Yeah.

That...

That's where that comes from.

Interesting.

Okay.

Yeah.

He...

He was also engaged in a poly relationship with his wife and 1 of his grad students.

And he was completely...

Into, Bd, and, like, he did a lot of studies of, like, so and, like, h rituals.

So, like, you know, out of this.

Who wonderful to report.

And if you read a lot of the early stories of her.

Like, there's some really rocky stuff to get, like, tied up a lot.

But at the same time, you know, wonder woman her mother is Hip apollo.

Right?

You know, who...

The queen of the Amazons, and it's like, you have that you have that saint that that same thing we were talking about at the very, very beginning of the question.

Like, the the idea of, you know, you know, these higher ideals being brought to Earth, You but using the trapping of, Greek and Roman history and mythology.

And you know, for some weird reason, Dc has chose to focus more on that these days than the really weird, you know, the the the weird bonded stuff.

Mh.

But yeah.

You can see that in in a lot of, modern.

Wonder woman's choice.

Especially, like, in the 19 eighties, an artist named George Perez, I'm...

III apologize if I get the the the names wrong.

She really started taking more of a ancient history, tone in the 19 eighties and especially now, a writer named Kelly Sue khan, who's fantastically.

You should read all of this stuff.

She wrote a book called Amazon historian, which gave the Amazon's a bit of a backstory.

Mh And she firmly firmly sets it in ancient Greece.

And it's a gorgeous book, and I highly recommend it.

So, you know.

So that that that is a very long very mean very, concise history of sort of how ancient pathology, and, especially Greek roman mythology, Mh mid into comics.

Now you also have 4, but that's Norse mythology.

That's that's different.

Right.

Tangible.

It's it's very interesting.

Think about how...

They essentially all these things are kind of archetypes.

You have, you know, kind of, a hero's journey.

Well, like you mentioned before, the idea of, like, you know, a Moses...

It figure the case of superman.

You know, we have this in the case of wrong that are adrift on the river ty found by, the Wolf Suck, you, raised by the shepherd, and so on, that many other examples sa Back, for example, Human cultures seemed to like certain patterns where, you, the hero has cast out, the of Campbell, the heroes journey all that kind thing.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Like, this is the...

Yeah.

Campbell was, you know, doing his, all this work.

In the sixties when all of this was being created.

Right?

Like thing Yeah.

They were they were all huge fans.

And, yeah, You're right.

The the idea of the baby being cast adrift into the river and being found is a...

Is a definite architect.

We...

They think advantage a lot of kids.

They they did.

And historically too kind of sadly.

But but anyway, thinking about the extent to which they're borrowing...

From.

We can remember mythology.

And and it might be superficial in many cases.

Like in the case of Columbia, for example, who looks kind of like Athena, but isn't really a athena.

She just has a nice you know, Greek Pal on and looks good with a spear.

And then there's these deeper borrowing wings.

Like in the case if Wonder above all.

Were they actually delve into with Mythology, at least the extent of recovering the names, and something about how they operated in the context of Quest antiquity and bring that into a story that they're not itself ancient has constant reference to it.

Yeah.

And so are there other examples besides 1 roman that people might not be as familiar with, for example, that you can think of, off the top of your head.

Of curiosity of this kind of biological superficial or deeper, for Yeah.

Well, you know, like I said, in the 19 sixties, you know, Jack Kirby was a huge fan of the ancient aliens theory.

Right.

And you have...

You have the eternal.

So, like, You know, they...

Their...

The gods come to Earth.

You know, Athena Fast.

I I should've have talk todd that talk talk talk talked about that then.

But you also have, you you also have you know, a lot more obvious characters.

So, like, You have the the big 2 comic book publishers in American media.

And you you have you have Dc, you have Marvel, And they have...

They've they've taken very different approaches.

Like, Dc is a more direct translation.

So, like, you know, you have, like, you know, you know, the the the gods exist and they are above us.

And then you have, marvel comics as well.

Stanley very famously said that, the Marvel universe is the universe you can see outside your window, but more so.

So, like, it's it's a lot more...

I wanna realistic.

Which I'm gonna use heavy quotes there.

Right.

Because you know, I mean, you know, the fantastic 4 and, like, you know, weird science and mh.

All that all that stuff is on full display.

But at the same time, like, Marvel adopted a policy of like, all all of the methodologies of the world, all of the you know, the histories of the world, they're all real.

They they all, like, you know, they they all exist in they're all valid.

So, you know, you have...

You know, you you have the artists sort of imposing their thoughts onto it, but you also have, you know, more direct translations as well there.

Her is a character who shows up in the, in marvel comics.

He's not, you know, thrust to the forefront, but he exists.

I I wanna say, I can't remember off the top of my head, but I believe he was...

He became prevalent in like, the seventies when what when they were doing the, pulp s movies from, like, the seventies, like, you know, Hercules fights the mold people or something.

That.

Yeah.

So, like, you know, Marvel being the shameless you know, copier of pop culture, and and they were.

You know, they were, like, hey.

We want that in a comics.

So Mh, Her eric shows up.

And they also did, like, you, the exploitation and the the kung fu films of the Mh.

Sixties and seventies, they show up as well.

So, like, it...

It's very much a case of, like, popular culture sort of informing itself and copying from itself and then, you know, cycling through as well.

So You know, the those are some of the more, the more obscure references.

Mh.

But, you know, they still exist.

And they're...

They're all very interested.

And like, you you have these, you know, artists and these creators, you know, taking not only the established mythology, but the, the established thing continuity of the books.

Mh.

Like, you know, we're we're we're at a point where we have, enough history, and continuity in the comics for the, creators to, you know, borrow from that, and, you know, Mh bring their own influences.

So, you know, it's it's it's it's It's a soup.

And You have all these, you know, all these people adding all these cool stuff.

So, you know, That's what sense.

Oh, soup is delicious.

So, you know that here's that.

You know, it it's funny.

We were talking just now, I was thinking about Roman history.

And, when the romans began writing their history, it was rather late in the game.

Well after they had their an empire.

And many centuries after the Greeks riding their own history in their own myths down.

As their own step into this world it has a very rich those literary tradition.

And they borrow pretty shameless from every aspect of it.

And.

And you know, they have, like, 4 different from foundation myths.

Gonna borrowed from different people they have different variants the foundation myth, which then refer to again and again, you know, in different ways.

Even their early history is most as cobb together from well wish thinking, and again, kind of it's myth of their own origins.

And so, I guess, every people is guilty of this to some degree, but kinda I think almost in the comic books style of, and alternate universes that can kind of coexist.

If you want to create a certain kind of soup and you mentioned before how how the creators a superman, or borrowing both from, you know, the step bible stories as well as...

Kind of, you know, greek mythology, other influences.

So besides Gregor roman Myth, what other cultures have been in mined most heavily kind by creators of comics in the last, say, 50, 60 years.

What some of the biggest influences are norse mythology, Like, right off the top of the head.

You know, Marvel has, thor, which is not exactly a 1 to 1 translation of, like, the the Ed and the prose edd.

Mh.

But eventually, Marvel created their own cosmology with, like, As and the Gods and all that.

And more recently, there's been a effort to sort of accommodate some other stuff as well.

There's a publisher called graphic India.

They did a...

The this is this is about a decade ago.

They did a graphic adaptation of of Mah.

And, I'm butchering the name.

I apologize.

Mh.

But, you know, bringing that into comics.

And, you know, if you if you move away from sort of Western, mythology as well, then you go into, like, you know, Manga and Japan, which is absolutely huge.

But, yeah.

You have, like, the adaptations of you know, journey to the West.

If you're a fan of Dragon ball z, you know...

You know journey to the West.

But, Tori made it, you know, gave it a Sci f twist as well.

So Mh.

Yeah.

You know, a lot of Norse mythology, a lot of, Japanese and a lot of East Asian work and, you know, now we're moving into sort of, like, you know, Indian mythology and some African as well.

So, you know, the...

It's, you know, a global tableau for a global world.

Mh.

And that the, you know, this, you know, that's what's happening.

So Well, no that.

That's very interesting.

I I wonder if in many ways, the Grease Romans, the heroes especially, at the mythology, we're just low hanging fruit.

It was what everybody knew.

And so it's feel familiar to the audiences and to the writers, they could mine from it extensively, and there was just a lot to borrow from.

Absolutely.

And I mean, like, you know, her...

These t and like, they they they were basically superheroes to begin with.

Like, you know, like, ends, you know, what what is the superhero?

Well, you know, that that's a question of some debate.

But, like, you know, the the idea of, like, the you know, the the problems that people face, you know, the, you know, you know, the the the the issues of the day and, like, you know, it's it's it's a you know, the, you what what the hero does sort of is, you know, the they, you know, they they they confront these problems, and they deal with them in, you know, this...

Overblown dramatic way.

And as a result, the...

You know, there...

There's a story.

There's there's a, moral and there's, like, information in imparted on that.

Like, the example I like, to I'd like to use in the example I hear of is, like, you know, when Her was fighting, like, the hydra.

Like, it's it's sort of a a metaphor for the Greeks trying to, you know, control, like, rivers and water sources.

And, like, you know, what happened...

You know, what's...

What...

What's he doing?

Like, you know, he cuts off 1 head, he blocks you know, you know, you block 1 river, like, you create 2 more.

Mh.

Sort of, you know, that sort of thing.

So, you know, how you know, how do how do you deal with, you know, how do you deal with the issues of the day?

And, like, you know, you see that with, like, the first appearance of superman, Who is an absolute?

Prick in his first appearance.

Like, he is...

He is not a nice person.

Like, he like, within the span of a few pages, he stops a he stops the execution of a wrongfully convicted man, he brutally assaults a person who a wife beater, and my my personal favorite, he goes to...

Like, he he runs over to Washington Dc Grabs a corrupt politician by the scrub of the neck and basically holds him out over the window until the man agrees to start doing his job.

Dead serious.

Like...

Yeah.

No.

The I...

Yeah.

There's also a moment...

There's also a moment in a later issue where he demolish is, you know, poorly subsidize, you know, he he demolish his, project housing block.

In order to force the government to build better housing, for The poor needs.

So, like, you know, that...

That's also a thing.

So, you know, the, you know, the...

For they they are...

They they truly do stand for, you know, truth and justice.

So Mh.

Like, you know, you have that as well with the the heroes.

So you're right.

It's a it's a very reaching very low hanging fruit for people to, crib from.

Yeah know.

1 thing before we go on as we were talking here, I was thinking that in many ways, Alexander the great, is a superhero.

As he's portrayed later on his geography.

Blue of course, you know, has these actual accomplishments, which are incredible, You know, before he's 32 conquering the known world.

But later on, there are more and more sensational versions of his history.

The alexander Romance it's called.

We're, like fights giant scorpions, you know, he goes off and Mar exotic.

Queens, and even has become this superhuman figure of in the middle Asia even in many different cultures from you know, from the far east, you know, rather the Middle East all the way through Western Europe.

And say is a sense So...

Yeah.

I think I think there's a moment where, like, in the...

Corona or and I radiant literature where he finds Yeah.

In both.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah And and all these different things.

And he just kinda of shows up, you, scanned or the 2 horns, like, from therapist.

And you he...

He is a superhero, basically.

Okay.

Know these...

And these writers in many cases do know these stories mythology.

And I'm importing them onto this mortal mortal figures history.

So there's nothing new in many ways.

This is low hanging fruit for them and they've applied it to this historical figure.

Mh.

But to move, from mythology, shi via history in this case.

What are some ways that ko have addressed the ancient world outside of mythology?

There's the history of classical world.

Are are are the aspects of it?

Alright.

So...

Yeah.

Every...

So...

What...

So it wasn't just the mythology that we like to crib from.

It was the ideals or the perceived ideal.

You know, going back again, to Columbia, like, you know, Mh.

The the the reason why, you know, she assumes the trapping of you know, the Greeks is because, you know, we we used, you know, you, you know, we you have, you know, American and, British, politics has its basis in Greek Roman law.

And more an in a more modern sense, we've started...

We, like, a lot of comic creators started, borrowing from you know, the the perceived, you know, they perceived ideals of the Greeks themselves.

And this is a very, very, sort of roundabout lead up to the...

What is probably the the the big 1 in the room.

If you're a fan of agent history, you've probably at some point in your life, had to deal with people who are a little...

Too obsessed with the movie 300.

Mh Yes.

Yes.

That's the big 1 that, I like, I like to talk about.

But...

Yeah, The the the movie 300 is based off of a comic book by a guy named Frank Miller to Frank Miller is 1 of those names and comics that, like, you know, the the lay man doesn't necessarily know, but, like, fans.

No.

If you don't know who Frank miller is, He's the reason you know who Dared devil is, and he's also the reason why Superman and Batman keep fighting each other.

They used to be really good friends all the time.

But then, Miller created the dark knight rises in 19 86, and it's...

You know...

They've been front enemies ever since.

But, Miller created 300, he actually...

Borrowed from the 19 sixties movie.

A lot of people don't remember that, remember that, but there was, you know, the the movie, you know, the 300 Spartan.

In like, the sixties.

So that's...

That's what Miller was following from.

So, like, you have in I mean, I don't I don't need to talk about 300 and what and, you know, the the stuff it talks about.

It...

It's it's problematic, but at the same time, it's like, you know, know, the the, you know, the the Greeks did believe in their inherent superiority over everyone else for a better or for worse.

You and so, you know, that's that's on display and, like, And, you know, that...

That's, you know, what...

That's 1 of the big things.

It's it's it's not just the stories.

It's the culture that came from those stories as well.

You'll be pleased to know that there is actually a book series that was a little more recent.

That was published by group called image comics.

It's called 3, and it's actually sort of a answer to, 300.

It's by a guy named Karen Gill, who is, you know, he he he's he's a very well established writer.

He's done a lot of, stuff with Marvel Dc and mythology as well.

But it's about a group of, He from sparta of slaves, who, you know, realized, hey, the, you know, the system kinda sucks.

And so they've they rebel against the spartan.

And it it doesn't end well for them, but, like, it it talk...

It goes into a lot more detail about, like, you know, Mh Oh, this is what ancient Sparta was actually like.

As opposed to this hyper masculine hyper ideal version.

Right But, yeah.

You know, that...

That's it's as you know, it it it's it's the culture that's the Greeks left behind as well, for better or for worse.

So, you know, that that's it...

That's the other stuff we've done.

So...

Yeah.

That's nice way to talk about it.

That there's kind of both polls represented both for 300 as...

The somewhat problematic ideal utilization of certain aspects of the Greek world.

And this attempt to really get at the often pretty brutal reality of that world.

In these, you know, 303.

Yeah, when I saw 300 for the first time, you, I was 20 years old, When it came out, you know, that's dating myself, I guess, pretty accurately.

I saw an imac and came out, like, that was the best thing Ever seen in my life.

Like, I know even then it it was, you know, there were things that were problematic about it.

Various orient, but, like, At the same time, I just had a lot of fun with that movie.

And then we are obviously.

And it was a huge amount of fun.

They they had Bridal Cavalry.

Come on.

But but then, right, Yeah.

Yeah, was like, kinda got became, you know, older and more of a historian.

Yeah.

It became, you know, somewhat less fun to watch it.

But Obviously they show his poles of enjoyment and his historical was responsibility in entertainment about ancient history.

And...

So then it sound like an.

See the did did you see the sequel?

I I did not.

I I heard interesting things about the sequel.

Yeah Yeah.

It's...

Like, it literally starts off with the line.

Like, like, it's it it's actually set...

It...

It's it's it it's set before, the battle of thermo Apply.

It it starts with the battle of Marathon.

And then it runs like...

Concurrently as well.

It's about, optimistic and it culminate the battle of Salami.

Yeah.

And like, it opens with the line you know, darius annoyed by the notions of pre democracy in va.

It's like, that's not what happened.

That's not what I all.

Mh.

But it's actually a lot more nuance then the original, 300, like, mystic actually talks about, like, how he thinks, like, you know, addis and the 300 going off die is stupid, but it's useful.

So...

And and, like, they also have a evergreen, as Art, she's oh yes.

Oh my god.

She just, like, she she owns the movie in, like, in the most ex...

Stream and Hilarious kind of way, and it's really...

Like, she's she's great.

But, yeah.

No.

Like, it's it's it...

It...

It's a sequel that sort of common on its source material in a very interesting way.

Mh.

It was also based off of another graphic novel that, Frank Miller did, but it's not as popular and not as famous.

They're they're they also come off.

There they also creates this fiction that Z sees was tricked.

Into invading Greece and that he's actually sort of you know, he...

He...

He's he's not the God king he thinks he is.

But, like, it it's mh it's it's actually pretty good.

And it it's it's interesting.

And I would recommend giving you the shot.

Oh, alright some Saturday I who knows.

Yeah.

But yeah Oh, Nuance is good.

Right?

And in Comics and and in other media, and it's basically be the kind of approach it there at least.

How about a Roman history of curiosity?

Are you aware of many treatments in comics of Roman history?

Yeah.

Well, okay.

Okay.

So So when we're...

You know, we've been talking for this podcast mostly about, American comics and American comic book culture.

Alright.

There is an entire world, of, comics and fiction out there, that isn't here.

Mh.

The the 2 other big ones are, you know, Japan, Manga, that that that's that...

That's pretty big.

There's also, the Franco Belgian comic book see.

Oh, yes.

And, you know, the stuff that's going on in Europe.

And, again, like, you know, fans of comics and fans of ancient history are probably, like, you know, champion at bit.

Yes.

I'm gonna talk about Asterisk malcolm.

Not.

There's asterisk ob, which is a...

It it it's a French comic series that was...

It's first published in the 19 sixties, I am gonna butcher the names of the creators.

I, rick...

Renee, Yesterday or...

III don't know how to...

I, my french is terrible.

And, Alberto, There's no.

Mh.

Are the the people that created it.

And you know, it it it...

It's it's very French but, it has...

It's it's very much set in ancient rome.

It's about a...

Like, the last the last hold out, of, gaul culture against the Romans.

And, like, the only reason why this village is able to hold out is because the village Dr knows how to brew this potion that gives the, user, super strength.

And so it's the various adventures of the you know, the village warrior Asterisk, and his, good friend Ob as they go on, you know, adventures all across the world.

Mh Julie Caesar's there, you know, B is there.

There's, story where they go off to ancient India, Cl shows there.

1 what 1 of my favorites is asterisk in Cl.

They make so many jokes about her nose.

Yes.

Yeah.

The the, that's there.

So, like, that's the big 1.

It's it's 1 of the best selling comic books of all time.

So, like, you know, it...

Yeah.

And so that...

That that's...

You know, it it takes, like, actual, like, history and, like, adds a historical twist to it.

There's another story...

I think Ob and company where, a character who is very clearly based off of jacques S rock.

From French politics shows up, and he...

Like, it...

He's he's basically just, like, you know, it's, like, capitalism, but, like, it's a version of capitalism.

It's Mh.

It's it's great.

I love it.

And you would think that it would just be limited...

That that ancient role would be limited to, like, you know, Europe and, America.

But here's the thing.

There is a manga, and I'm dead series.

It was published in 2008.

It's called aroma thurman.

It's written by, a, woman named Maria Mi, and it it is...

At have you heard of it?

I I've heard of this Tv show.

But say that.

Yes.

It it was a comic.

And, it was also a live action movie, and it's an on netflix, I think.

If if you can...

Yeah I think you can still see it.

No.

Mh.

But, yeah, It...

The idea is is there is a, architect in ancient Rome.

Who is tasked by the emperor Had to build the magnificent bath house and he's he's absolutely suffering for ideas, and he gets sucked into a portal, to modern day Japan.

Where he sees, like, you know, modern Japanese bath houses and then he goes back and he implements these ideas, and it is It is so weird, but it's so interesting and it's, like, III love it.

Like, it is is 1 of those wildly and crazy ideas that...

Mh.

You know, it it shouldn't work yet somehow it does.

And it was popular enough to get a live action movie and an anime.

So, you know?

Yeah.

It it's...

It really did seem to resume.

Yeah.

In the anime that that's that what Roman or my Nova or whatever it was.

Yeah.

Some connection of those words.

And I I watched a couple episodes.

It's at my video editors recommendation.

And I looked at the end, they had that the creator would come on.

It was like a informative documentary bit about Japanese.

You know, Like, and here's how it works in Japan.

Like, it was very kind of a fundamental addition to, yeah.

It was kind of this like, odd ball about combination of things.

But, but anyway, so, obviously, a huge variety of adaptations, and you know, 4 rays, I guess, into Roman history from different cultures.

Absolutely.

So for for a final question, what do you think the future holds for comics based in or around ancient history?

Yeah.

So I think what's...

I think what's happening now is you know, we we we had sort of, like, you know, the the the broad, you know, big ideas, the broad, you know, you know, the the gods have been brought in.

The, But I think...

And and, like, we've also had, like you know, the broad strokes of, like, the history and the culture being brought in as well.

And I think...

What's happening now is we have an entire generation of creators who grew up with this.

You know, the the the classics may have been sn a hundred and 50 years ago, but they're are a lot less sn now.

Mh.

And they're are, you know, there there's this...

Sense of, popular enjoyment as well.

Like here.

This this this isn't for you know, rich college case.

This is for everyone.

And there's enough of it that's common knowledge where people can be like, oh, like, you know, this exists, But, like, you know, let's let's give it a twist and, you know, let's let's make it, you know, you know, let's let's make it a adapt to our ideals.

1 of the big...

1 of the big, stories that's, been published in recent years is there there there's a, comic strip called Laura Olympus, It got published on the line became insanely popular, and now it's being brought to print.

What that is, it's a modern re telling of, Per stephanie in Hades.

Mh.

But like, there's this movement...

Like, there's this movement where, like, people are, like, you know, really sort of examining the relationship and, like, you know, it's not for me to comment on, you know, how appropriate that event was.

But there are people who are, like, you know, well, what if we made it so that Per stephanie and Hades don't hate each other.

Like, what if what are what if it was actually a loving and caring relationship.

You know, let let's let's explore that.

So, you know, the the idea of taking these...

Trapping and taking these ideas and taking these themes and sort of making it that making it our own.

Right you know, putting our own spin on it, like, you know, like the Romans did with the Greeks, you know, like, you know, like, our you know, great great grandparents did with you know, with you know, the law and with you know, the culture and oh, law and the culture.

And, you know, Mh.

What we're doing with our personal feelings and ideas.

And also, if you'll permit me to toot my own horn, going back to my hook.

But, of course.

Available on Kickstarter now, system.

The reason why I wrote it is because, you know, I...

As someone who grew up in this.

And as someone who enjoys studying it, even though my Latin and Greek are terrible.

1 of the things I've noticed is that the way we view, greet...

Ancient greece in rome in popular culture is very narrow.

Whenever we have a movie or whenever we have a Tv show, it's always the same people, the same themes, the same ideas on power and control, and that's great.

That's awesome, but it's like come on, guys.

There's was there there was more to this than, you know, the more to this than Julius a Caesar.

So, you know, a big reason why I wrote this comment and a big reason why...

Come I love the toll stone Youtube Youtube channel is because it takes a step back and it looks at, like, you know, oh, let's look at like, the Mundane small stuff.

You know, what was what was it like to go to the dentist?

You know, yeah, how do the romans take care of their trash?

You know, that...

You know, how did a Roman feast work?

I, how, you know, how did everyday life work as well.

So there there's there's...

So so basically information, what I'm saying is that we we are were...

The the way we...

Our our over, our relationship with the classics is starting to change.

And we're making it our own and we're bringing it into the model and we're we're we're sort of using it.

To communicate our thoughts and our ideals of how things are and, you know, how we think the world should be So...

And, you know, that's starting to show up in comics as well.

Oh, I think that's great to be honest.

I think that for tradition to survive, it has to be a living 1.

And that only works if people do try to...

This creative translation of a story into a new civilization, a new era, a new, frame of mind.

I, yeah.

New a new epoch.

Yeah.

A new.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I wish you all of best of luck to it.

Everyone listening again, this has been Matthew Blair, a creator of Roman romano Magic k, which has been put Told Stone, I don't which to twitch I wish all the best.

So And, Matthew, thank you so much for joining us today.

Oh, thank you for having me.

But, of course, and everyone listening.

Thanks for tuning in.