[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Mark Rose podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a solo episode coming at you microphone only.

[SPEAKER_00]: No video.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've really been feeling this call to sort of like retreat back from the masses too.

[SPEAKER_00]: go deeper and deeper within myself and then really continue to develop a more, I want to say like intimate friendship and relationship with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this podcast has been along so much of my journey, you know, from [SPEAKER_00]: Twenty eighteen I think when the first episode came out to go in through breakups talking about that really very publicly and really my exploration of what happened during COVID and how community works and how fear works and how propaganda works and really there's been sort of a living out loud transformation out loud.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm happy to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm happy to be able to look back historically and be proud of a lot of things they say or stand for and some things that I'm like, well, I could have done that better.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, a lot of people are afraid of having the words documented or the things they [SPEAKER_00]: Think and say because it could be called upon at any moment in time.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I think like all of us, we have to be proud of every iteration of who we are, even in our most shadow expression, even in the hardest moments in our life.

[SPEAKER_00]: because you have to think that even the person within you who maybe manipulated someone's behavior or lied or cheated or drank too much or didn't say this right or whatever it might be.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you can't have gentle curiosity for what creates those circumstances within your own being, then you sure as hell won't have any forgiveness or compassion for someone else who might behave as similar way.

[SPEAKER_00]: If anything, we will resist more fully the behavior of others that we have not fully accepted as being true with the nuts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think about the extreme religious person who is using pornography or is hiding that they're gay and then is really actually much more militant against people who are gay or people who use pornography.

[SPEAKER_00]: We tend to resist or reject what we have not developed compassion for within ourselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's only through that compassionate lens of like, oh, look who I can become.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look what is possible for me when I let anger take over or grief or shame or all of those things and to really be able to go into the belly of that behavior.

[SPEAKER_00]: and be able to reach into the hurt part, the scared part.

[SPEAKER_00]: The part that just wasn't quite adulthood yet enough, that couldn't adult at the time, didn't have the skills, didn't have the resources, wasn't taught.

[SPEAKER_00]: And isn't it through that ability, right, to walk that journey ourselves, that then if we're parents, we can walk it with our child, and then now that pathway has been modeled for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: My father did that for me when I was young.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I remember I broke the law.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember there was a food court in the mall and someone had left a bag behind with a purchase.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw the food court people put it away, probably, you know, for the person to come back.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I pretended to be that person.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I went and got the bag.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I kept the bag for like a couple of weeks.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was jeans.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I tried to return the jeans a couple of weeks later.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, at that time, the receipt was flagged and blah, blah, I got in trouble.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not proud of that, obviously.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what's really interesting about that is my dad said to me, why did you do it?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the first questions he had.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was terrified that, you know, what one I disappointed my parents there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good moral models.

[SPEAKER_00]: My dad and mom both lived with such integrity.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you feel a healthy level of shame that you've let them down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just like, you know, if you would in any community and any family.

[SPEAKER_00]: that models that of course we don't all get that so I can understand that and maybe on some level it's actually the fact that I got that and still made that choice that I had even more shame about you know I came from good family I had [SPEAKER_00]: You know, everything I seemingly needed.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we were not wealthy by any means.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I actually needed money.

[SPEAKER_00]: I told my dad, you know, I was just afraid.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, well, you know, and so we had a long conversation and he said, look, I'm going to give you things to do that you wouldn't normally do as part of your chores.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, I'm going to pay you for doing those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was also grounded.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I have such a level of appreciation for them, my dad, met me with curiosity that that left a really deep mark within me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just of like, wow, I was so ashamed I just wanted to go in a shell, I wanted to hide.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet my father, through gentle inquiry invited me out of that shell, he normalized and humanized what I'd done and taught me that that wasn't the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that if I really needed to, I could ask for a support, I could talk to my parents about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think about this, the power of community to do that, the power of what it means to be part of a friendship group, maybe not a family, because we don't all get that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, the absence of what you get in a family of really emphasizes what you desire in one.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll spend a lot of our lives resenting and remorseful and maybe remorse as the wrong idea, grieving and angry about what we didn't get all while missing the chance to create what we desire.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the only reason we know what we deeply desire is because we had the absence of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the reinforcement of a wound is through the behaviors that keep the wound alive.

[SPEAKER_00]: So think about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The reinforcement of a wound.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's existence is perpetuated by the decisions and choices we make that are sourced from the wound itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I experience infidelity as a young person, teenager, let's say, or I wouldn't as my parents, but let's say I experience it myself, then what will unconsciously occur [SPEAKER_00]: That may be consciously, but very much unconsciously is that when I love somebody and they propose to love me, [SPEAKER_00]: that love leads to betrayal.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the best way to prevent that end result, which is some of the worst suffering I've ever had, that I haven't gone into the belly of.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't gone into the depths of the betrayal and what it meant about me, what I made it mean about me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't gone into the depths of the pain of that of what it meant to feel discarded, dehumanized, devalued, [SPEAKER_00]: And that I made it mean that my value was based on their treating me as valuable or not.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because of course, that's at the core of it is that if there's not a responsible adult human who's able and group of people who are able to hold the trauma of the betrayal with you and tell you that it's not about you, then you will make it about you and then it will run your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if loving people and them loving me leads to the deepest pain I've ever had, I will figure out a behavioral pattern of relating.

[SPEAKER_00]: And holding certain beliefs, like there's no good people out there, apps just don't work.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're the problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: No one cares about love anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's no good people in New York or LA or Calgary or Vancouver or Toronto or London or Sydney, whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will develop a behavior and a relating pattern that will either prevent me from loving anybody or all love people who are not available to love me back fully.

[SPEAKER_00]: So remember, the equation is when I love people and they love me, it leads to deep pain.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if I love people who don't love me, we're not going to get there.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I don't love people, [SPEAKER_00]: who love me, then I don't have a problem, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So if available people show up and I'm just not available to available people, then I don't have a problem either.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what ends up happening?

[SPEAKER_00]: is if you choose one of those behaviors to love unavailability or to be unavailable to love.

[SPEAKER_00]: You will live in the perpetual pain of your wound because you will constantly spin around what the wound created, the behavior the wound created.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're running away from the people who say, I really care about you.

[SPEAKER_00]: My gosh, you're amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've never met anybody like you.

[SPEAKER_00]: My Lord, I can't believe you were available.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't believe your ex treated you that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're such a beautiful human.

[SPEAKER_00]: I really love you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really starting to care about you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your body will respond in a way of disgust, of running, of shutting down of avoidance.

[SPEAKER_00]: It will show up as there's no connection there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to be fair, there isn't yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your gut is telling you, it's not good.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not aligned.

[SPEAKER_00]: My gut did that for me for a lot of women who wanted to choose to love me when I was in my disorganized post-Badrial phase.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I really did the story I'm telling you is one about myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I understand the patterns so deeply.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very deeply.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I will feel like there's no chemistry there.

[SPEAKER_00]: even though there was chemistry till they told you they cared.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's because the wound is unresolved.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what they've bumped up against is a story.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you care about me and I care about you, then I'm going to lead to the pain that's unresolved.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yet, the wound is created and upper limit in my capacity to let you in.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't let you in because if I let you in, I make myself vulnerable to being wounded again because I haven't even actually gone into the pain of what occurred which would then at least give me some wisdom about who I choose to be with and what red flags are and what orange flags are and where was the earliest moment that I missed that and how did I leave the relationship before they left it and how did I abandon myself and betray myself internally [SPEAKER_00]: and within the relationship before they externally betrayed the relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's not blaming us for creating the external betrayal, but it's saying if I'm to take full responsibility for my life, I have to go to the earliest moment where I left me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you leave you to be in anything, it only makes sense that you will be living in the perpetual experience of a bit self-abandonment, which will then lead to external abandonment.

[SPEAKER_00]: So think about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: If authenticity is a right turn and that's you being you and telling the truth and sharing how you truly feel and your fears and your strengths and the things you truly desire and related to what you really want and then to the left is you sometimes telling the truth but you're really matching them a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: and you're not really advocating for yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that thing hurt, but you understand in it and you don't really know how to advocate for your needs and your wants because maybe you learned to make it about other people because that was safer because if they were happy, you were safe.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you end up down this path, the left path.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the left path is not a full version of you in the relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so at some point, so you're living in this experience, even though it might feel like normal life, it might feel like normal desires.

[SPEAKER_00]: It might feel like, oh, but I got a job that was like the job I was taught to want.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was perfect based on the left turning version of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I did my undergraduate degree in finance.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know interest in trading stocks and doing bear spreads and all that kind of shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was what I was supposed to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was the degree that made sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could become a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, an accountant.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: These were all the practical things, despite a part of me being awakened through my options in psychology.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then really navigating towards sales because sales really was me being able to be in this space of psychology and human behavior and relating without, you know, but still being in the paradigm of what made sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're in this radical revolution from a cultural perspective where like, what does work really look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: What does a marriage look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: What does a relationship look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then added to that, or this is a confounding factors that we have technology that is training us to have short-term attention spans and all long-term love is created from the ability to be bored, the ability to ride the wave, the ability to pay attention to something longer than a moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we can blame algorithms for being profit driven in the more attention they get, the more ads they can sell, which makes their stock price go up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you have to remember that all companies, all companies who that are share held have the number one commitment to the shareholders of profit at all costs.

[SPEAKER_00]: That cost is you.

[SPEAKER_00]: That cost is me.

[SPEAKER_00]: That cost is relationships.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now look, I'm a firm believer that all human systems and all things in nature are always trying to be better.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think that the reorganization of us as individuals and relationships and communities and culture and country, they're all undergoing a dismantling that's necessary.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because has it been built on is is health built on the truth is medicine built on true health.

[SPEAKER_00]: How can it be when the profit of farmer is seated in there?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is our food and the development of mass agriculture based on truth and health?

[SPEAKER_00]: It can't be because profit and addiction food addiction is part of that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to see that all of these things [SPEAKER_00]: Like our food, like our technology, like our media, are all designed to make money from you because the biggest businesses in those spaces have a legal requirement to their shareholders to produce profit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we can blame the algorithms and the systems and everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we'd be valid to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not negating that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, like, that's not going to fucking change the world and that's not going to change you and I.

If we want deep love, we have to become what can create deep love.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to create an epic, loving, connected, collaborative relationship, you have to be able to pay attention to that relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be able to be in the present moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can yell all day about how technology is robbing us from presents or I can model what presents is.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can put my phone down and be with my family.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can have events where technology is not welcome, but photographers are, and I get that people want to post things and share things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think progress is the absence of technology.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think progress can't come at the cost of health, biography, or sorry, biography true, biology and physiology.

[SPEAKER_00]: So our nervous systems and our brains and how they work have to be taken into context when we're relating to something now listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: The companies have taken into context, your physiology, but they've taken into context so they can exploit it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can neither decide to be part of that exploitation by just saying, you know what I'm going to sign up for more things.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or you could say, I'm going to have an Instagram or a TikTok or whatever, but in having that, I'm going to use the technology as a tool and not let the technology use me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's by inserting that discernment that everything changes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Remember that saying that the opposite of trauma is choice.

[SPEAKER_00]: choices taken away, choice must be reinserted.

[SPEAKER_00]: We have been under the largest uncontrolled experiment in human history, and I'm not talking about COVID, but that certainly was there with the vaccine.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about how technology has been unleashed on young people.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a childhood before all of this.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're like me, we have the ability to contrast our childhoods with our adult hoods, and even our later adulthoods.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was not fair what has happened to young people.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but how could anyone know that's the truth, but the people who work for the businesses knew.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have people who are in their twenties and yeah, twenties who only knew smart phone childhoods, who only knew iPads.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I saw a video the other day where he said, you didn't raise your children to school, raise them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Technology raised them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's actually that's the problem that we need to raise our children.

[SPEAKER_00]: We need to get back involved, but we're so busy trying to pay bills that we've given over the responsibility of our children to the state, to the government.

[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, it's just this simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can understand how convenience is what is sold to us.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I had a job and instead of my laptop, they gave me a blackberry.

[SPEAKER_00]: This blackberry had blackberry messenger.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could get my email in my phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was so convenient.

[SPEAKER_00]: But little did I know I went from only being able to get my email when I plugged my computer into a VPN network or connected to the internet.

[SPEAKER_00]: to always being connected.

[SPEAKER_00]: What was sold as convenience became enslavement?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're in a massive rise now.

[SPEAKER_00]: A massive return to this craving of landlines and record players in nostalgia.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the eighties and nineties were magic and yet I also recognize the value of technology.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what I think is let's create [SPEAKER_00]: what the early nineties and eighties was with all the best parts of today and all the best parts of then because we can feel the collective emptiness that is occurring from the collective trance of people's attention just being in their devices and not thinking about what is being implanted in their brains the imagery the sounds [SPEAKER_00]: that we have to take responsibility for the information and the enraging, the enragement and everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what I mean.

[SPEAKER_00]: That I have to decide what type of information is entering my mind body and soul, just like I have to decide where I'm going to put my body in, who I'm going to exchange energy with, [SPEAKER_00]: Just like I have to decide what beliefs I'm gonna hold and how those beliefs are gonna shape my life.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just like I have to take responsibility for my wounds and how my wounds shape my choices and how my choices reinforce my wounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if I was to want to let go of someone or something, I might simply ask myself, what would I choose if I was no longer holding on?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I go choose that thing and inherently, I'm no longer holding on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I speak to all of this because it's all part of the same behavior.

[SPEAKER_00]: To be radically sovereign as an individual, which I'm not talking about the shadow side of individualism, which is true.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can become an island.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then become, you know, narcissistic in some sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: and that be a defense mechanism where your standards are really walls.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm talking about where you're in relationship with other people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that relationship is the celebration of two individuals becoming more powerful, becoming the greatest version of themselves, and that actually moving alongside in collaboration to create something epic through one another in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's business partnership, that's romantic partnership, that's friendship, that's family, that's community.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because imagine if we could walk down our paths of our deepest pains and say, what did you make that mean about you?

[SPEAKER_00]: How can you read how that story in a way that has nothing to do with you and liberate yourself from the way that it's impacted your behavior?

[SPEAKER_00]: because it's simply a belief.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been fragmented and isolated in one piece of time that has forever changed your life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And all we have to do is change the lens through which we see it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we have to be mindful that to let go of the martyr of that experience, which remember, we're holding the both end.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can be the victims of things, and yet we can be responsible for how those things impact us.

[SPEAKER_00]: We get to decide, and I'm not minimizing the somatic nervous system experience of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I am saying that if we're going to move beyond that and build our capacity from a nervous system perspective to hold different, we have to get to the core of what the lens through which we're seeing our experience and our lives.

[SPEAKER_00]: put on a different pair of glasses, see the world a different way.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you notice that what you're consuming on social media is stealing your hope and your possibility and look the world's fucked up, I get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you were to not know anything about what's going on beyond your neighborhood and you literally just sat down and didn't know the political views of your neighbors and you had dinner with them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you just broke bread, life would be so different, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not negating the experiences of the world and politics and any of those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying don't be consumed by it.

[SPEAKER_00]: If there's one message of all of this, if there's just one takeaway, [SPEAKER_00]: It would be to become so radically responsible for your own being and the people in your immediate experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: Your job is to bring everything back into integrity and alignment with your values, with what matters to you, that all the relationships we're in are about the preservation of each other's individual experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: And imagine the power of community when community says, hey, tell us what you've been through.

[SPEAKER_00]: How can we support you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I just see so many religious people who experience religious trauma where they are exiled from their religion for choosing something like getting divorced or making mistake.

[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, that just further distances the person and makes them go deeper into shame and not feel safe to explore whatever they're navigating.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I wrote an article years ago that instead of shaming the divorce, we should learn from them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now obviously it's how we get divorced is important if we're going to teach from it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But even if we get divorced from a way that isn't healthy and we then restore integrity of exploring what we did and how we did it and why we did that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe we cheated in order to leave.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's being able to go into the belly of that and then teach from that place.

[SPEAKER_00]: So wherever this podcast episode finds you, I hope it's been helpful and you navigating something and being able to bring some clarity to the wounds that run your life and then how wounds that are unresolved actually also lead to the endless consumption of social media to avoid our wounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a layered thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a big thing and we're all in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let's do this.