Alright. We are back. The staging area with DC Sports eighty seven. Tory and I were just catching up before I hit record. We've got a ton to talk about. It's going to be fun. We're gonna be talking about generally the state of the hobby middle class, which I would imagine most of us are a part of and just talking about how that market is operating. And then we're gonna touch on high high end. We're gonna touch on low end too, and we're just gonna cover it all. And there's a lot to get to, but without further ado, Tory, welcome back to your office. I know you were gone, for a bit this week. How are you? Are you getting readjusted? I'm good. Yeah. It was, it was an awesome trip. So we were out well, I was out, with, Will and the team from Valor Sports in Arizona. We had a awesome house hosted about 40, prospects from the Arizona fall league. They were out for the whole day, interviews, live streams, ripping a ton of wax, talking cards, you know, catching up on collections from players who are already in the hobby, introducing some guys who had never been really exposed outside, like, signing their own first Bowman's and moving on, to more of the hobby. So, yeah, it was good. Very, very quick trip. Left Sunday, got back Tuesday, so, not quite enough time for the price not price cut. I got my brain on prices. I say price. I meant to say time change, and I Freudian slipped and said price change because we just spent too much time talking about this. But, yeah, time change didn't get me too bad. So, excited to be back. Excited to dig in all this stuff today. But, yeah, great experience last few days, especially for me, baseball nerd. It was it was super cool. So just going through that and experiencing that and me as a spectator, the way our hobby is trending and the way it's moving is more of a connection point and integration between athlete and Yeah. Sports cards. Like, you can just see in any of these businesses that are bringing together, athletes around cards and using athletes to promote cards and build awareness for that. What what was that like for you knowing that kind of that's a industry trend and you're sitting there kinda smack dab in the middle of it, like, seeing it in real time? Right. No. It was great. And and, you know, to your point, it's becoming more and more normalized and kind of socialized where it's not just the card guys doing cards. It's like, you know, cards in the hobby keep bleeding into social media and the news and, getting players more involved. I know, like, with fanatics, that's been a huge push, and we see that with all these new ideas like debut patches and, player you know, cool inscriptions on cards and the the gold logo men for, like, baseball and basketball we've seen. So, a lot of innovation happening in cards, but it was cool to see it with a younger crowd. You know, all the guys we were with were for the most part, you're, you know, low a through double a prospects. These guys were, you know, 19 to 23 years old or so and just, yeah, I think they really seem to embrace it. I probably saw a dozen different guys, like, opening twenty twenty four Bowman draft baseball, hitting one of their own first prospects, signing it and trading it with another player from that product who pulled his own card, and they were, like, signing to each other. And so, it was a really cool way to kind of further that connection because having the players there with the cards right there who know each other and, like, just seeing those cards straight hand was was super cool to see. And then watching them open some other products and be excited because they're pulling their favorite major leaguer at the time or something. So, the other thing I noticed that really surprised me was how many of these guys have started, like, another page on Instagram or another account that's their collects page. So it's, hey, here's my personal, but I'm starting this page over here for my collection. And so, I think sometimes we know a number of players collect, but just to see it firsthand and to see these guys really wanting to, like, grow their presence in both places was cool. So, yeah, very very cool experience and goes exactly what you said that we're seeing more and more of that happen out there right now. That reminded me of, like, you know, the jersey swap that we see, and there's always the limitations because you have to pay for the jerseys and this and that. But it's, like, maybe we'll start seeing, after the games, people pulling out their rookie cards and signing them and passing it off. That would be pretty cool. Well, you're right. And you see that with jersey swaps, which used to be all you saw. Right? You saw jersey swaps. And then we started seeing, like, all these news articles from tops or Yahoo or wherever where, you know, a collector went to a game and traded, like, a rare card to a player for a game used bat or something. And now we're then we saw, you know, Bobby Witt, who's a big collector, who had, like, the cards that he was had in his, like, pants pocket during games that he was getting slabbed, and then people would want those. And now we've got players trading signed first chromes with each other. So, yeah, it's it's great to see. It's super healthy, and it's super interesting. It's super fun, and, yeah, just an exciting trend. Let's hit Topps basketball, in between our recordings, Topps basketball. The flagship has, been released. And it's actually it says flagship on the back, so we can refer to it officially as flagship. One of my observations is it just it feels like long time basketball collectors who grew up with Topps. There is excitement and energy on reconnecting with the Topps product. I have not been chasing any of, the Topps stuff, but I will say, like and this is what they do. Like, fanatics and Topps. Tops, it's been very impressive how they've gone to market and promoted this their return to basketball. And I would imagine the same will be true for football. But what what have you been seeing with Topps basketball? I would imagine since it's like every stream I pull up, people are just, like, ripping cases and stuff. I would imagine that stuff is filtering your way, but, like, what are some of your observations so far? Yeah. I mean, we are getting thousands upon thousands upon thousands of cards from it. You know, I I think this one is is very typical of a release like this. So I'm also excited to have tops back. I will say that from talking to people who sell with us, talk to people who buy with us, and talking to just people I know in the hobby, I feel like there's a very different stance people take based on how long you've been around. Right? So I think you and I could probably relate on this level. We both been in the hobby a long time. We collected as kids. We're ballpark same age. I might have a few years on you. I don't know, but we're we're both up there. So, like, we can look back to tops and remember in the, you know, mid to late two thousands from, you know, LeBron stuff up through, like, the Steph stuff when it kinda before it transitioned to Prism. And so there is that nostalgia of I love seeing tops on a licensed card of today's players. Like, there's just something really cool about that. So tops is back, like, that means something to me. The conversations I have with people who are newer to the hobby are more of the I miss Prism. Like, I'm sad that I'm worried I'm gonna lose Prism or I'm gonna go to unlicensed Prism. Like, this isn't the same. I'm not used to this because even from Panini, the flagship products were, prism and select and optic and kind of your heavier stock, more premium chrome like finishes. And, obviously, we'll get there as tops rolls out finest and chrome and other things. But I have heard a little bit of pushback of the I just don't know. I can say for us selling a lot of singles. They've done really well. It's what you'd expect where that first wave right after release, we had stuff doing stupid money. I mean, we sold our first Cooper flag, the 8081 tops design Chrome card from the silver packs for $640 just a base Chrome, and it got paid. So, you know, not a not a fake sale or anything. But then you see, you know, give it a couple days, they were $2. 50. Give it a couple days, they were 100. And now I think they're probably settling in in the, you know, 50 to 75 range. So it's the way products always are. You have to be smart about where you spend your money on singles because day one, there's gonna be such a demand, especially topps' return to the licensed market had even more craze over getting your hands on those singles day one than it does with a typical product. But, yeah, I know they printed a ton of it. I think that's good. You know, there's a huge demand for it, and, we're excited to keep seeing it roll in. It's just very just kinda watch how this progresses with their strategy of the release of different products as this kinda goes from here. But, yeah, like you said, we are getting flooded with it, but it's an exciting time, for me, certainly, as somebody who missed that one tops around. This I wasn't planning on breaking this up, but we're talking about new releases. And I know, this will it'll be released by the time it comes out. But a product that I'm really excited for on the tops front is, Bowman University Chrome. Mhmm. Football products coming out. It'll have come out on Friday. It's it's I would love to know from your point of view. For me, it has been a product that it's I think this is the fifth year. I think college collecting has had a certain narrative of, like, don't collect college cards because they'll be worth nothing when they move into the pro jerseys. This was happening before NIL. You can look at, Bowman First in baseball, and it is so much of a thing. It is the thing. And I just see the way Bowman, University has positioned itself with Bowman First being very, very important. And I just think about, like, this NIL era alongside how much how many passionate, like, collegiate fans and collectors there are. I just wanna get your perspective. Like, since this is I think this is year five, of this release. Like, have you seen momentum around this product since kind of it's come out or just any general observations on, the Bowman new product? Yeah. Yeah. So I I like it. I'm not, personally, I'm a way bigger pro sports fan than I am college, but who, die hard follow college. And so, what I've seen more than anything with the way that we are transacting singles is just that everything moves faster in the market these days. Right? And so I think it's one thing to say, hey, you don't wanna hold that collegiate NIL whatever card because once the pro uniform stuff comes out, that's like the b level thing. Right? It's second on the list. But I've seen a lot of people doing really well with buying and selling and flipping these during those years the players are in college. And so I think there is a huge market there because especially on the lower end, you know, if you look at a Bowman U First Auto, even of a big player, we're not talking the price point of an n t r p a or a prism auto or what's gonna be a tops chrome auto or something like that. So there's a lot of opportunity for people who follow college football, say, to just every Saturday if a guy goes off, you can probably go and pick those things up on eBay, come see a whatnot stream, a local show, whatever, and flip those things that maybe double and triple what you paid because there's just so much immediate attention to things. And so I think more than anything, that's the way I kinda look at that market is maybe there's a slightly diminished long term hold or long term, like, speculative investment to make. But in the short to midterm, it's a great opportunity. So I think it it does well there, and I feel like year over year as it's become more normalized as a established and you already said flagship, but, like, flagship product of sorts, I think there is gaining traction with the number of people who collected and invested it into your point, you're a die hard college fan, you want that card no matter where the player gets drafted, probably to hold long term. So, yeah, it's cool. I think it's taken a long time to catch on, but I think we're there and, it's good to see it, you know, having a really healthy, way of transacting in the market right now. Totally. And I think for me, it's I've been looking for that, path to collect, my favorite team. And there's something just that hits different when you see a hobby box is not $1,200, but it's a $160 that they'd like an auto is not $300, but it's, like, $30. Like, to me, that's gonna bring more people in. So I think is really cool. Yeah. For sure. We're gonna talk about, like I mentioned, the middle class, the hobby for the most part, but we got to talk about the craziness and the high end to kick it off. And you shared a card that we're going to use as an example. But what I want to know from you is with the spike in pricing of all of these goats and we're seeing it with these weekly auctions, we're seeing here's an example. I auctions. We're see here's an example. I was doing, research for one of the other shows, and I was going through card ladder. And I just saw, like, casually, yesterday as we're recording this Wednesday morning. I was like, did this really just happen today? But a 24 karat gold, Barry Sanders just casually went for 40 k on eBay in the morning. And I was like, that just doesn't seem normal. Like, that's not normal behavior. So I use that. But there's there's so many more. Like, what are you seeing? Like, is what you're seeing on this, like, goat stuff sustainable? Yeah. So I I think there's a a couple things I would say here that maybe sound contradictory. I don't mean them to be, but, oh, well. You know, just the unfiltered take I have here is, I would sell if I was holding some of this stuff just given the prices it's at. But I also think it's like a conditional sustainability. I know we've heard a lot of people talk about it. You bet you hear all the time all the number of celebrities and big investors and things that are kind of coming to the collectible space and saying, this is an alternative asset class to use that, like, very cliched term it feels now. But, like, it brings a lot of people with money looking at a fun, like, more engaging way to invest it to the hobby. And when they do that, they're not looking to acquire a thousand $5 cards and hold that as an investment. They'd rather own one $5,000 card. And so I think all that new money, and that's coming from a lot of, global interest in cards as well as just a lot of the, you know, higher class of investing that we see domestically. It brings a lot of attention, a lot of money to it, and that's what's driving up. You see the prices on rare MJ stuff and Kobe. I think Brady rookies are a great example. I know three four months ago, we were seeing these things for the mid to high two thousands auctions and fixed price and everything, and now I'm seeing buy it now is get hit on eBay at 37, $383,900 dollars. We're seeing an auction in the same range. So, like, that's a really aggressive spike for somebody who obviously hasn't played, you know, nothing nothing meaningful has changed in the market in that aspect other than the new money coming in and saying what are the investment pieces we wanna own. So, I'm I'm not saying, hey, I think this is a bubble that's gonna burst, but I look at and I say, if you've got them and you've got this opportunity to cash in at a time when these are hitting really great prices, I have a hard time saying no to that. But I also don't blame the person that says this is like a macro trend in the market and so we're gonna ride this out and see how much higher, like, this wave can carry these items. So, very much depends and I know we're gonna talk Ohtani a little bit. So you've got to weigh the, you know, what's the long term versus you're capitalizing on the buzz right now and and things like that. But, yeah. So could it sustain? Yes. But if it's me, I'm also kinda all for, just capitalizing on what you own as well. So I think it's always good to just follow the data. And a lot of the times with a lot of these sales, if we don't have content and people talking about them or sharing on Instagram, we don't even know what's happening. And so this is one of the examples. I'm gonna show show it for everyone. It's on the screen, but it's the twenty eighteen Bowman Chrome rookie auto of Shohei Ohtani and a BGS95Auto10. This is no serial number. This is just the base auto. And Tory, before we hit record, shared with me that this card, went for $46,499. 99 on October 28 on eBay. Now this card is and a BGS95 is a population one thirty eight. So to me, that's when things start to feel a little funny. But what an example of exuberance and an excitement around sports cards. But again, this leads me to think that there is this high net worth individual who might not have the education around all of the things that make cards valuable over the long term. And they just decide, oh, Otani? Oh, rookie? Autograph? Sure. Here. Take my money. So what like, how do you react when you see something like this? Yeah. It's it's crazy. And it's like, you know, I've been around cards long enough that it's like, I remember when a a Bowman Chrome product would come out, and the first prospect who caught fire, like, his BGS or PSA gems were a 100 or $200 card, and that was exciting. So it's kind of weird to see a guy going for $46,000 for a base auto. But at the same time, we've also never seen Ohtani before. And so to me, he's kind of the exception in this goat thing where I think we're gonna look back and he's gonna be in that conversation as far as goats for baseball long term. I think that's already cemented. We're talking about a guy who is about to have his fourth MVP, is on a team that will likely give him a chance at a few more titles. Who knows if he racks up a couple more MVPs? He didn't even pitch for a lot of this year, and now he's back to doing that. So, he's a unicorn, and I think we have to remember that. But, it's one where I understand there's a finite number of the the you have to have them products out there, the tops chrome and Bowman chrome autos. He's a guy who didn't have a prospect auto. So this isn't somebody who has a first prospect auto and a rookie auto. Right? He just has this. He has other rookie autos, but it's a special card. So I do understand it. But, yeah, like you just said, and like we chatted about a bit before, it's just crazy to see the prices, but it's like the hits just keep coming. I mean, he he had the year he had. He had a game where he had 10 strikeouts and three home runs. He's the other day, he had, what, two homers, two doubles, and three intentional walks in a game. Like, no matter what happens with the Dodgers, he's he's lived up to the billing, this playoffs. And so, it is crazy. It's just, you know, that not that many months ago, you could have gotten this for half the price. And so it's, it he's that weird mix to me of how much is his legacy already cemented. And so this is just what his market's gonna be. And how much is this? We're at the biggest stage in the baseball season. He's performing, and everybody wants his stuff. There's only so much to have. And maybe with enough global investors and the global popularity he has, maybe a 138 is not that many, you know, and at the end of the day maybe it makes sense here. So, it's one of those that I would be the last guy to say I can tell you in a couple years what this card is gonna be worth, but it's certainly worth talking about And, even just sharing this as a $46,000 sale is noteworthy enough that I'm glad we touched on it. So we're gonna move from a $46,000 sale to talk about some, mid range sales. And these sales, these are cards that sold through DC Sports eighty seven. And I just ran a report, made some selections, but just found some interesting cards to, talk about. So the first one is the twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen National Treasures Derek White RPA Auto out of 15. This card sold on October 20 for $531. Tory, my reaction to this was, man, what what would happen if we just hit fast forward and made Derrick White be a current prospect? Would how many multipliers would we have? I mean, this guy's, you know, been an all star, been one of the best players on a championship team, been on the Olympic team. And I was like, a a a out of 15, n t r p a of this guy is is only going for five thirty one, which I think because this isn't new. And if you are a Derek White fan or collector, like, and you're patient, this is an indication that, like, you can get some of his best cards for under a thousand dollars. You just gotta wait. But to me, that this example, like, really stood out. Yeah. No. And I think he's a good example of how when we talk about, like, mid end or kind of mid range values and cards, sometimes it's about the card. Sometimes it's about the players. Sometimes it's about the timing. Like, there's just so many things you have to weigh. And so to me, he's kind of more of the latter two where it's like, this card has now been out for seven, eight years. He's been a great player to your point all star. He's an incredible defensive player. He can still score, but he's not really the guy. Right? Like, he's on these teams where he's not the headlining guy. It's kind of to me, like, I almost wonder if when Ohtani and Trout were on the Angels, Ohtani got all the buzz. Like, did some of that steal from Trout? Because you sometimes see that where, like, the premier guy distracts from somebody else. And so, we also are always looking at the, what have you done for me lately? And if you're not the bright shiny object and the latest release or the top rookie from the latest class or the last guy to win MVP or the last guy to have a 50 game, like, the market sometimes is so reliant on those things that I think just the tried and true steady all star level performers like him sometimes do kind of get ignored, and so it's that, it's great if you're PC ing somebody like him. But he's one of those guys where I think you kind of find a middle and their values settle there, and it's just hard to find something that then spikes you again because it's almost like we want people to come into these leagues, take the league by storm, trend up, do something new exciting every day. When people don't do it, the market can almost get fatigue with them. And just being really good for a really long time isn't always a big enough of a mover. So, yeah, it's a good example of that. Because you're right. You could look at anybody from the last two or three years, and an NTRPA to 15. There's probably players I haven't heard of that sell for $531. So, yeah, your your point is well taken there. I like how you took that because there's so many different ways to think about cards and the year it was produced, the player, the rest of the team, the product itself. And I think this is another good example where we've got a 2022 Panini black capstone Jersey, auto silver, Justin Herbert out of 10 B g s nine auto 10 sold on DC Sports 87 for $510, again, on August 20. And I know capstones has existed outside of black and other products from Panini. So there's some lineage and legacy there. This is a non rookie card, but you've got a non card auto, and you've got it in a product Panini black. Although, it it I think I did some research not too long ago. Like, it's been black has been running for, like, a decade, which I would never even guess, which is crazy. But not like the product you hear too many people talk about, but, like, a lot of people in this hobby are really invested in the success of Justin Herbert. I think about pandemic boom, and he's like a symbol of, like, that era of people just wanting to attach themselves to a specific player. But I look at this, and I'm just like, you know, like, there was a time where it felt like every Justin Herbert card that sold was, you know, at least four figures. But now, you know, we're starting to see, like, you know, a cool car. You can see the thread coming out of one of the pieces at the bottom. You see the auto. And it's just like, you can buy a Justin Herbert, like, patch an auto card for under a grand right now, which I think is cool if you're participating in this space. So what's your reaction to kinda Herbert and the sale? Yeah. Herbert's an interesting one. It'll be interesting to see if the Madison beer factor ends up driving, value to Justin Herbert much like Taylor Swift if you're Travis Kelsey. We'll we'll have to see what happens there. You know, there's a lot of lot of, overlap and cross pollination of the pop culture world in sports these days. But, Herbert's an interesting one. I know I was talking to some guys on another podcast, with SCN and just, you know, it's like he and, like, the Jalen Hertz, Bo Nix, like, a couple players like that almost feel different where it's like those other guys win a lot, but they're not like the big sexy stat lines and things. And Herbert has always had a ton of yards and TDs, and he's been, like, the guy to drive that offense, but the chargers haven't really done something else. And so, you know, for him to take that next step, I think that's what needs to happen to his market, and we see his prices go back up. But it's gonna take playoff success. Like, we've established Justin Herbert is a star NFL quarterback. Very good. But we have not established that he is somebody who's gonna go to the playoffs and go deep. And we need that to happen to see the next step happen. But to your point, it's a it's a mint condition card, auto low print run. All four patches are nice. You're right. I think black's been around since, like, 2012, which makes us all feel ancient. But, but, yeah, it's just I think there's just so many sets and so many autos that at some point in a player's career, and he's kind of getting out of that, like, first couple years young star and into that established veteran, you need to see the career trajectory continue to climb to see these cards be those 4 figure cards again. No doubt about it. Love the Madison beer mention. You gotta do it. I was not even picking that way, although I now think about them being front row at a Lakers game and Right. Right. Kind of media we're getting. And we're talking about Ohtani one more time, but I saw this sale. This is a 2018 Topps throwback Thursday. Ohtani rookie PSA 10, sold. Again, August 1 or October 20 is a popular date because this thing sold, and it is a population of two fifty one for $316. 99. And, man, to me, that's like, wow. Like, this card is just like your standard base card. It's a rookie, of course, of Ohtani, and it's a cool looking card. It's like a little artistic in a way, but, for this card to sell for 316, it tells me, like, if you're playing in the mid range, you can still get Ohtani cards. But I'm just, like, I'm not sure how like, what the long term val or value will be on something like this that can continue to get sent into PSA and continue to get PSA tens. Yeah. For sure. And not to, like, disagree, but I don't like how these cards look. I just to me, this looks too much like it's trying to be like a Bob Ross baseball card, which I'm I'm not a fan of the set. Got, like, the artistic background of color, like, that gray behind him, and it's, like, not fully just a photo. It's, like, art looking. So it's not my thing, but, you know, everybody's got their own preferences in cards. But to me, more to your point is it's not even like a flagship or the in demand card. It's throwback Thursday. It's kind of obscure. But it's an Ohtani rookie. So it's got to be a couple $100. And like we just talked about the direction he's going, That's probably warranted. Whether it sits there and stays in the 3 hundreds. I don't know. I you know, I could see this slipping back to $2. 50 when things cool down on the offseason maybe but, yeah, for a not super low pop, like, key core card for the guy. It's just, yeah, but but I think it does go to show that not everybody has access to 4 figure and 5 figure cards. And so if a player reaches a certain level and you wanna own a PSA 10 rookie, there's a ton of people putting eyes on those as their highest entry point to a player's market. And in doing that, you see this appreciation in the middle, tiers of cards because there is a lot more demand for at least a lot more people with demand. So you see these kind of things go up. We've got a first tier on the staging area. Bob Ross mentioned shout out Madison Beer, Bob like, who's gonna be next, Tory? Oh, man. I I I hate the Bob Ross cards. Like, I really don't like them. But that's just that's just my thing. Like, they're not as bad as, like, booklets to me, but they're they're up there. Yeah. Okay. So you you you had a it was great segue into kind of the primary topic of, like, who has the money to be spending on these, you know, $5. 06 figure cards. And the the reality is not a ton of us. So a lot of us play in this mid range. And so to kinda set the stage and to kick off this chat about the hobby mid range and performance, how do you, like, define that group, like, price point, buying behavior, or mindset? I just want the audience to, like, make sure we're all kinda tracking on the same wavelength as we get into this dialogue. Yeah. I I think, you know, mid end is is very vague. If if I'm saying that, I'm probably talking your cards that are, you know, I'll say, like, 1 to $500 is kinda what I'm talking about. I think we probably all have different definitions, but I think it's more a matter of buying behavior and buying ability. So to me, it's you are on a set budget, and we all have different budgets for cards. But I think if you're on a set budget that is more finite, you tend to play in the mid end. I think couple $100 up to maybe 500 is kinda where that caps. Because when you start getting the 4 figure cards, I'm just gonna call those high end singles. Like, I just that's the way I look at them. Mhmm. And I do think the mindset is more, what can I afford is often the first thought before what do I think this piece can be worth in the future? I think when I'm thinking high end, I'm thinking more of the kind of cards that people who have a lot more capital to invest in, or people who just have these kind of larger collections and can play in that space because the thought is usually not, can I afford to buy this? It's often okay. It's already at $10, but do I see a path for it to getting twenty, fifty, a 100% higher? And so that's kind of the motivation. Whereas with the mid end, it's more of a where do I wanna allocate a more finite amount of resources, whether that's for shorter term flips, you know, things I'm buying for the PC, or just kind of looking at what I can afford for a player like Ohtani where that high end, the autos and the rookies aren't accessible, so you have to kinda dial it back a little bit. So that's my at least short short summary of how I'm looking at this segment. When when you think about just and I'm sure you get into the weeds on this stuff from I don't know how often, but just the date the sales data from DC Sports eighty seven, like, what what portion of the cards that are being sold through DC Sports eighty seven fall into that kind of 1 to $500 category for you guys? Yeah. So I think it's for us, it's honestly not a not a huge number. I mean, you're probably talking five to 10% of what we sell, just because you get those handful of cards that are super high end. And then there's just a ton of bulk. Because I think especially in our business with consignment, you've got people people who obviously wanna max out the value on their sales. And so having the eBay followers we do and the presence online and people knowing and trusting our brand helps a lot. So we can do better for people on the mid to high end than they can. But we just see so much of the 5 to a $100 cards because people don't have the time to list and sell all those. I will say that I think the way our inventory mixes is probably very much a parallel to the way the market and the buyers are in that the market cap numbers may be kinda similar in terms of how many dollars are trading hands. But on the mid end, it's a lot more people spending less money each, and on the high end, it's a lot fewer people spending a lot more money each. And it's kinda the same with what we sell where, obviously, if you broke our sales down by dollars, you're gonna see it weighted heavy on that mid to high end. But if you broke it down by the number of items we sell, it's gonna swing because it takes more of those to make up for for that amount of value. So, you know, that's that's just kind of what we have as far as a mix of what we sell, but, certainly varies across different, you know, platforms and buyers and things like that. I was mentioning this to you before we hit record how so much of the coverage and what we see in the filter we look at the hobby through is through these monster 5 and 6 figure sales. People like things going up. People like big cards being sold. But so much of what we're buying on a regular basis is this mid end. Why do you think some of these sales, which I think you would only know if you were a nerd like me and spent a ton of time look slicing and dicing reports and looking at stuff being sold, but you wouldn't know this unless you were doing that in card ladder or wherever you're looking for sales data. Yeah. Why do you think so much of this, even though if the majority of us buying this stuff gets overlooked when we're talking about just, like, what's being sold and cool cards? Yeah. Exactly. You just said, I think it's just less exciting. It's less headline and buzz worthy. And, there are fewer of those super high end cards, and we all get excited with things set records and, you know, break new ceilings down and go into a new tier of price. And so it's exciting to read about that stuff. When a card goes from being worth 30 to $45, that's cool. But there's just so much volume that I think a lot of people because we're not stopping to look at that stuff all the time, and it's just so much buzzier to have that headline that grabs you when a, you know, MJ Coby card sells for 7 figures than it is to look at, you know, week to week, month to month price trends on 50 to a $100 cards. And so it just it just gets less attention, I think just just naturally because that's just, you know, we we want big and exciting and crazy and sexy and sometimes that's not the case with mid to low end items. When you're when thinking about, like, performance data and the health of this segment, like, are you what's what's more interesting to you? Is it, like, that card that went from 45 to $50, or is it the the volume of cards selling at 45, $50? Sure. So to me, it's the volume generally. I would look at two things. I just because there's so many cards in that range and we all have a limited amount of time on our hands to do all this nerdy data digging that you and I both love, but, it's like I look at how much is the market transacting. Right? I wanna see that there are more just gross sales happening on eBay and all the other big selling platforms month over month because that tells me cards are trading hands, people are selling them, new people are buying, and, like, that's healthy for the whole market. When I'm looking at the actual prices, I'm way more interested in how do the prices on the singles market compare to the prices of the product as it comes out. Because that's one thing that I think we have a real scary trend happening right now where I think there's some great products being released, but I think they're entirely too expensive. I I think the prices on new product coming out, sealed wax, getting into breaks, a lot of things people love to do. If you really look at what it costs compared to what you can sell those mid end singles for, I mean, let's just be honest, we're not all hitting the super factors, the shields, the black prisms, like it's just not happening. And so you have to look at, is there a healthy price range for those singles to trade hands? Or are you buying into something where a box cost you $300, and a good outcome is three mid end singles that will combine for a 140? And like, I just I think there's a discrepancy there that I hope closes. But with the amount of demand and excitement and new people in the hobby there is right now, I don't know that it's going to. So, I wish that dynamic and the relationship of those two prices were healthier. I don't think it is, but, yeah. Overall transactions, volume, things trading hands, that's how I define healthy for the bulk of the market. I think, like, what you just shared is something that we've we've felt as collectors or hobby participants for a a long time, and it's just this disconnect between the price of of new product and the individuals who are buying it. And, you know, there's so many factors there. Right? I just think about repacks. I just think about the rise of break breaking. And I'm, like, monitoring because I think it's interesting for me as someone who likes to study what's happening. I'm monitoring, like, tops and fanatics every move and just how they're operating and how they're going to market. And I'm not, like, it it it it's probably a bad thing for many people who just wanna go to a hobby shop and and rip wax. But it almost feels like this especially with this this new basketball product, it's almost like planning a flag in the ground and saying, like, hey, everyone. Like, we've all felt this new era coming for a while, and we're experiencing that through live selling, through all these trends, through breaking, through repacks. But, like, this is this is the world we're in now. And so that's what it's felt like for me. And so I'm I I I talked about Bowman, University just because it's like, if I wanted to go buy a hobby box, I could go into indie card exchange here locally and buy one and not feel bad about myself. But Right. That's, like, the exception, not the rule. So I don't know. Is do you find, like, that's the this is kind of the new reality based on all these trends, and we're probably not going back to way it was, so we should just kinda get used to adapting or maybe something Yeah. How do you look at it? No. I think you're right. I I don't think it's gonna change. I think it's gonna stay the same. I don't think the reasons are good, but I think it's gonna stay the same. You're you're not gonna get people to stop buying into breaks. You're not gonna get people to think it's not thrilling to chase big hits anymore. You're not gonna get people to not enjoy going into live streams and bidding on teams and buying teams in a break. Like, that's not going away. And so, I think if you're someone who has the means and the budget for it and you enjoy, you know, we can hear every breaker in the world talk about it's about the community and the hobby and the fun and don't get me wrong I'm I'm one of those guys like I love going into a break room and hanging out because I think it's a blast. There's a great community there. You know the people. It's a really good time. But people have to be smart and don't just say, because this is my team, I wanna buy it. Or because this team has the biggest chase, I wanna pay for it. The reality might be that that's just the prices and to your point, the flag is planted in the ground to say the hobby is booming, tons of new money, new people are rolling in, we're gonna capitalize on that. This is just economics one zero one and this is what the product costs. But people just have to be smart about is the chase worth it? Do you not wanna chase? Do you wanna buy singles? When you buy singles, you buy them right when the product comes out. How long do you wait? What are you buying to flip versus buying for yourself? There's a lot of nuance to it. You just have to learn as a collector or you can get yourself in trouble. So, I don't think the culture environment and market is changing, but I think people need to be very aware of how it is today so that you don't get yourself, out over your skis. I agree with you. I don't think it's changing. I don't think people are gonna stop buying in the brakes and, you know, trying to chase the big hits. And creators, platforms, any marketing, all of it all of it is oriented towards that, which leads me to believe that there might be some sort of opportunity for create a creator or creators or business or businesses in this space to appeal more to the majority of us who aren't playing in that level, but maybe buying the types of cards we're talking about in this conversation. Is that, like, do you think about that, like, as a business operator? Or do you think there's an specific in communicating with, participants in the hobby who aren't buying the 4 or 5 figure cards, but are playing in the mid range? Yeah. Sure. You know, there's just there's so much content out there, and there's so many great people producing content and digging into the data and sharing the different insights. And, so as as a business on our end, I don't we don't think about it a ton just because we don't really live on that side of it. We're on the other extreme, honestly. Right? We're not we're not breakers, and we're not the ones initially selling products. We're the ones on the back end where once the singles are out of the products, we're a platform for those to trade hands. And so we more look at what kind of cards are we getting in a lot and what sports are selling heavy and what players are hot right now, then we're really looking at where are the cards coming from and this product came out here. How does the price point compare to that? I I find that stuff interesting. It's just less, core to what we do. For us, it's all about making it as simple, seamless, like, no brainer. Like, let anybody just get us cards so we can do what we do for them to get the money back. And I'm more worried about that than how they then choose to spend that money. Even though I enjoy doing content things, like, we will put on Instagram or you and I do in this pod just to talk about that stuff. Because I do think people need to hear it and not get caught up with this card has a $500,000 bounty, so I gotta go chase it and the product that came out yesterday and focus more on where is their value to me and where I put my money each day in the hobby. I think we understand that there are new newer participants and bigger money coming in to support some of these sales, like the Ohtani, Bowman base auto, refractor that we're talking about. That's just not normal. So, like, we know that's happening even if we, like, those people haven't, like, gone on Instagram and said, hey, I'm the one bidding or I'm the one buying. But I don't know. Like, do you in the in the kind of normal range or the mid range that we're talking about now, do you find do you think that population is expanding? Or do you think it's shrinking because of the reaction that this they might people might feel like they're getting priced out of the hobby? Like, what's your read? Yeah. I I still think it's growing. I mean, there there's just so many people coming into the hobby. And and when I look at just the amount of submissions we get for consignment, or I go, you know, I went to a card show not long ago, and, in Chantilly, the big show CSA does up there, you know, go back a couple months to the national, like, I see more and more of that stuff trading hands. You know, I felt like a lot of shows in the past couple years ago, maybe, and maybe even longer than that, but it had gotten to the point where it was like so many things felt like for display only. Like, I would go into a show and it was just those big ticket items that very few people really could have access to. There were more talking points than they were trading hands And I think now we do go to shows and you see a ton of those 5 and 10 and $20 value boxes where people are digging in to buy those singles whether it's for themselves or to flip them, and you see the 50 to $500 range where people are buying those cards. And there's so much data out there around comps and the market that people know what the values are. And so, I do think it's still growing. I think it's still healthy. I think it's gonna stay that way. I think it's just there's a larger burden than ever before on people to do their homework and really understand the market before they invest their money. That's good feedback. We talked about the, high end. We talked about the mid mid range and maybe just closing it out with the the low end. I know we went back and forth in some notes for this show, but wanted to get your perspective on just, like, the low end and, like, those examples of thinking in our first conversations, you're like, it's those, you know, those cards that are just sitting on your desk. That's right. Yep. I've got great visual. I've got it burned in my head. And and oftentimes, Toriel, I'll look over at my desk and see that that pile, for me. And I'll be like, alright. We need to do something. I I feel like you've got the pile and, like, instead of, like, the little angel on your shoulder, you got the devil saying just leave them there. They're fine. And then you've got, like, mini me saying, just sell them just sell them, Brett. You can do something better with the money. But, no. I I think the low end is important because no matter what you do, I I don't care how many boxes you open. I mean, unless you are somebody who exclusively rips briefcase after briefcase of flawless, and there's not that many people like that out there. You have a ton of those cards, and I think people just overlook the value that's in those. So I think there's just people have to be smart about it. Like, there are different places to sell them. You know, I always tell people don't send us cards worth under $5, and I'll say that on here. It's we don't wanna sell those because it doesn't make sense for collectors to send them to us. We have a fee structure that is good. If you start getting 5 to $10 and up, it makes sense. You're gonna get near or better what you'd get on your own, we can get you better value. But on a 2 or $3 card, take the time to list those yourself on eBay as buy it now. So a ton of people are building sets or collecting players, and a car might auction for a buck 50. But if I see a $2. 99 buy it now with reasonable shipping, I'll probably grab it. So use that strategy to sell stuff. I do think ComSee is a great platform for the low end. Get your bulk there and just do fixed price and just kinda let it do its own thing where you don't have to manage it. I think going to shows and setting up value boxes, $1. 02, and $5 boxes to do that is a great idea. Look at building lots and selling them as lots. You know, a lot of people might not pay $2 for one first Bowman Chrome prospect of a baseball player, but if you got a lot of 20, they might pay $40 for it because they save on shipping and they can get all that stuff at the same time. So, those are just some of the things I would suggest people do because I think if you overlook that stuff and you throw it away or put it aside and forget about it, so accumulate money that you're never gonna get back. Now if you wanna say, hey, I opened a Bowman Chrome baseball box and I got a later round draft pick, and it's an auto sells for $3 now, and I'm just gonna hold that. You know, let's see if he goes for a couple years. Fine. Totally get it. But I think there's just so much bulk people own that if they're just smart about selling it, keeping that stuff moving, keeping it liquid and not letting it sit idle and turning that inventory over faster is a great way to fund more profitable investments for yourself or just have a budget that doesn't constrict you when you wanna get in a break or rip a box or buy something for your PC. So just be smart about it because there's a there's more money there than most people realize. Covered a lot of ground in this episode of the staging area. Definitely make sure you go download that DC Sports 87 app. Tory, as always, really enjoyed the conversation. Looking forward to the next one. Likewise. Thanks.