This is episode four hundred and sixty eight of Aloha Mora for September sixth, twenty and twenty five.

Hello everyone, Welcome to another episode of Aloha Mora, the fandom's original Harry Potter book Club.

I'm Kat Miller, I'm Sean Minie Willis.

And I'm Josh Cook.

And joining us today all the way from Australia is our friend Tracy Keating.

Yay, Hi, Tracy.

It's nice to be here.

Yeah, nice to have you back, his returning guest, and Tracy, for our listeners that have somehow forgotten all the things that you said on the first episode that you were with us for, can you give us a rundown of your Hogwarts house and just anything Harry Potter that you would like to share with us before we get started.

Yeah.

Sure.

So I am a hulf a puff.

I think always when I grew up reading the books, I thought I was a gryffindor.

I think a lot of people did.

And then you know, the Pottermore quiz came along and I did it and it was like hulf a puff and I was like, I'm not a hulf a puff.

And then I read that welcome letter and I was like, oh, yep, yes, I'm a half of p and I definitely am a hulfu Puff.

I think like I've since done, you know, many quizzers, and I have come up with Gryffindor, but like I'm way too like a scaredy cat to be a gryffind Or.

I'm definitely definitely a hulfull Puff.

So yeah, the last time I was on the show was a few years ago.

It was the weighing of the ones episode, and so we kind of talked about ones, and I didn't know what my wand was, but I looked it up and it was pine and Unicorn.

I think I just ignored that because like, pine to me just seems like a really boring wood.

It's like the wood that we used to use in woodwork at high school.

Like it's the cheap, nasty kind of wood.

So I don't know, I don't I take that with a grain of salt.

But anyway, was it the chapter discussion and the weigh of the one?

Yeah, I think it's the revisit, like the chapter revisit you were on their cat.

Yeah, you're right, it was twenty twenty two.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

But you know what's funny.

You know what's funny is that hmm if we have already revisited that chapter, huh, somehow we're going to be revisiting No, just kidding, Nope, it was a different episode than I was.

It's a different chapter that I was confused in myself.

But yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, did I screw up?

Or were actually going to have five hundred nights?

Yeah, especially if it's like a math or a calculation mistake, I would have been pretty I would have been pretty embarrassed.

But yeah, that was twenty twenty two, Tracy.

So we're super glad to have you back.

And I think I have.

Said this on the I think I've said this on the show before.

But before I took the quiz and found out I was, I was actually a raven Cloth, I thought I was a hulf Puff.

So yeah, obviously, now that I know myself a little better, clearly not hulf puff.

So I can understand I told you you were a huff buff.

There's no there.

Well that was like, hey, there's.

There's no.

I mean, it's not like eat I like to eat, young Lady, like good huffle puff.

I've got one percent puff in me, you know, I.

Mean, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to say the words, but you know what I'm thinking it's a Michael Scott joke, but I'm not going.

To say it anyway.

Anyway, Thanks for being.

Thanks, It's gonna be it's gonna be a fun one.

And what we're discussing today is Order the Phoenix, Chapter seven, the Ministry of Magic.

We originally talked about this chapter on episode eighty four, The Name's Potter Harry Potter from May twenty fourteen, with host Michael Laura Eric and our special guest host, spy novelist Lynn Bowie Bowie Bowie Poe.

I can't remember how he pronounced it, but yeah.

Lynn, thank you for joining us.

And thirty five year CIA veteran and the executive director of the International Spy Museum, Peter Ernest, thank you very much.

What a pool for the podcast on episode fo.

Yeah, that that was a really cool, really cool episode.

They wrote the this incredible book.

You all should definitely go back and listen to that one.

I remember it being like just one of the coolest episodes that we had ever done.

And yes, it was episode eighty four.

We weren't that far into it at that point, but I still think it ranks as, if not top ten, at least top twenty coolest episodes we've ever done.

And they sold a lot of books.

Yeah, I actually do remember that episode.

I didn't go back and re listen to it because I didn't want it to cloud my what we talk about, Christ, But I do actually remember hearing that episode and thinking how cool everything was that like it was discussed.

Yeah, Tracy, that's why I don't go back and listen to them too, because I don't want the cloud my thing the pants just to get on.

No.

I mean it's always cool when you get to talk to someone who's worked in this CIA.

Yeah, that's really really cool.

Hello.

Anyway, it was a good one, and that was a very good James Bond impression.

I mean, like a B plus.

That's pretty good.

That was all I wanted to be in fourth grade.

I want to James Bond.

Well, I hear they're looking for a new one.

No, I'm good.

Well, oh okay, well yeah we'll see.

Wow, you really just did.

You're like on the impressions today because that was the perfect facial expression of the girl who tries kombucha for the first time, and she's like, you know what I'm talking about, right, you know what I'm talking about.

You know what I'm talking about.

I mean, I'm so I'm so good with that because that's the face I made the first time I tried.

Oh gross.

Anyway, I will stop derailing us.

I'm sorry, Seawanni ta get away whoa.

We are here because of our awesome Patreon sponsor.

So we would like to thank Donovan Deep Pascal for sponsoring this episode today.

Thank you Donavan, Thank you Donovan.

You're awesome and our Patreon offers a lot of great perks, including at free episodes, monthly meetups with the hosts, and so much more.

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Okay, let's jump in.

Three turns.

Should do It.

Chapter Revisit.

Order the Phoenix.

Welcome listener to chapter seven, The Ministry of March.

It is the morning of Harry's hearing, and he is wide awake and already getting snickered at by a portrait.

He finds a group of Order members in the kitchen and while shoving some I toes down his gullet, listens to Sirius and Tongues and Lupin and Arthur and Molly all try to reassure him that he shall be well.

All is good, don't worry about it, man.

He isn't buying it, of course, and Harry's gut is rarely wrong winky face.

But he travels into London with a muggle struck Arthur by his side.

Once they arrive at the Ministry of Magic, Harry gets a mini tour of the building by way of the elevator announcements before meeting Arthur's office mate Perkins and getting the rudest awakening he has had since just a few hours ago.

Yeah, this is one of those, Like it's a short little chapter.

I mean, it takes place over the course of like two hours, but it's eventful because we move location, we see a ton of characters, we get a ton of information.

It's kind of a fun one.

I sort of went into this not remembering what happened, and I was happy after I read it.

I'm maybe happy he's not the word, but you know.

I feel like I did put a like a comment later on.

But I feel like, like, not a lot happens, but there is so much world building in this chapter, Like we learn there's so many name drops, there's so many so much like new things that we learn about the ministry and everything, so like not not a lot happens, like stuff happens, but like, yeah, it's more of a world building chapter.

I kind of feel like it adds so much richness to the whole world.

Yeah, it feels very like day in the laugh like reality shoot chapter almost you know of like yeah, the chapter is about thirty minutes long.

It takes place too.

It's over two and a half hours from five thirty to eight, and there's not there's not only time jumps.

You know, we don't hear the in three weeks of fast and now Harry.

Is gone in the class.

Yeah, but like so order is very much like that, Like the whole book is, like that's why it's the biggest, like the largest book and things like that.

There's so many day in the life kind of sections like that, And I mean we're already chapter seven.

We're not even really close to getting too Hogwarts, and so many things have happened.

So yeah, it's world building.

I really like this side of order where it's hey, what does normal everyday life look look like for wizards?

Well, apparently normal everyday life looks like being slapped by a portrait on the wall before you've even like started your day.

But I'm curious, do you think this is like a Weasley family member?

Is this like a you know, you can buy frames in the store, or like even a used frame, like if you go to an antique store or something and there's a random picture in it, Like who is this person who is snickering at Harry?

Because I want this?

I think it's really funny and it's it's I like it.

I mean, I always assumed it was Phineas Nigellous Black.

I think I didn't even think there could have been anyone else until yeah, the the question was asked, but.

Is it like doesn't he come in?

Like doesn't he come in?

At one point?

And like, tell Harry, am I making this up?

He like tells Harry like not to leave or something like that, like later.

In the bedroom that's after that, Yet he does that, it's after Arthur's been attacked is Christmas times?

Don't leave, Like Harry's like, I'm possessed by Voldemort.

I need to leave.

And then like Phineas comes in, He's like, don't leave.

I have a message from Dumbledore.

And he's like okay, and then he's like, don't leave.

Is that in Harry's bedroom?

Though that portrait?

Does that happen in Harry's bedroom or the bedroom that he's in?

Yeah, that's.

So that's Phineas Nigelous Okay.

Regardless of who it is, it's weird to have a love a love portray in a bedroom in general, Like he's he's snakers, Harry's gets naked and puts his clothes on.

He changes out of his pajamas and puts his like normal clothes on.

Yeah, I guess I always thought it was just I just I thought it was a room that was repurposed into a bedroom.

While the order is there, like I don't know like what rooms, like what rooms do old fancy houses have like truly they don't have like fifteen bedrooms because there's like, like there's mister Missus, like why did I call him that?

Molly and Arthur.

Then there's like Fred and Georgia in a room, Ginny and Hermione are in a room, and then Ron and Harry serious, serious, they're not using Regulus's rooms regularly.

That hasn't been touched.

And then serious bedroom is where Buckbeak is, Like is it just like, is it so how many bedrooms is there?

Or is it just like a like is it it's not the drawing room because they cleaned that out you.

Say, at it for something?

Yeah, maybe that's where Buckbeak is.

Yeah, so he said.

Uh.

Later in the book, here it says Harry went up the stairs hurried into his Andron's bedroom.

Here he began to pace up and down pass the two beds, and Phineas Nigelus is empty portrait.

So it is in the bedroom and it does seem like.

You're coming with the receipts.

Okay, okay, if you've listened to this podcasts recently, what I do I've only I will.

Just sit here like this until I need to look this up.

Thank you.

So that begs the question.

Then, So if Phineas Nagelics is snickering at Harry because Harry is changing and getting into his clothes, who taught Phineas Nigelus's portrait to snicker at people who are getting niked?

It because he's a portrait and he can't think for himself.

He can only take the knowledge that he I mean, I guess it was him, because when we learned about portraits from the author, it was like she said that the person that the portrait is of teaches the portrait the knowledge they want the portrait to know and to like take into the afterlife.

So like Phineas and Nigelis taught his portrait to laugh at people who are getting naked.

I don't know.

I think it's great.

I think it's maybe I don't know, maybe he's just like rude and mean passed on to his portrait.

I think he is those things.

But yeah, yeah, I think I think instead of the download of you will laugh at people that are changing clothes and they're naked, and you will sninker, it becomes a you will laugh at people when they're in precarious and or I guess all compromise situations.

I was.

I was filibustered in my in my head as fast as much as I could, and I could not come up with compromising thank you.

So okay, So then he's going to be laughing if two people are getting it on and he's his portraits in the room.

Unless he has downloaded something else that says hey, when this is happening, there's.

Like a cheering yes, or.

I mean maybe he just like leaves because that is like that we're crossing into peeping Tom like inappropriate territory.

I mean we are.

I mean so just thinking of that, like, does that does this mean like everything that's been said in that room is getting passed on to Dumbledore, like every every conversation that the trio have had see.

I mean, that's a great question.

We think Dumbledore knows everything well he does.

But also, portraits can't learn new information.

I have come I think that maybe when that when she said all those things about portraits, maybe she wasn't like totally thinking it through.

But I think the portraits, while they can't learn information, so he's not going to hold on to that, I think that the portraits can hear it and relate it.

Yeah, And then it's gone.

But you have to be able to remember something to relay something.

So you can only give them specific instructions to go relay, but anything that's said that they hear in passing, they can't.

No, no, But like you have to remember something to relay it.

So if I say to you, like Shamani, my favorite color is red, and you want and you want to go tell your sons later, like you have to remember that.

Maybe it means like they can't learn new things in that they can't have like a character roc you know, so they can't go from being Phineus nigelous to then having about turn and changing their beliefs, so changing their allagances.

Yeah yeah, yeah, maybe they can learn new information, but.

They can't worry.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, they can't grow from you know, Okay, maybe I could see that.

I could see that.

I mean, lucky for Harry.

He leaves the room and he goes downstairs because he really has nowhere else to go.

It's, as Josh said, like five point thirty in the morning, and he finds all these people sitting in the kitchen.

It's Molly and Arthur in Loopin and Tonks and Serious and they're all cheering them on.

They're like, Harry, you're gonna be great.

It's gonna be awesome.

Don't worry about it, like the laws on your side.

And I just think it's I think it's very sweet that they recognize that he's intensely nervous.

I feel like the vibe probably changed when Harry walked to the room.

I know it would, like I'm pretty sensitive to people's moods and the vibe and stuff, and I feel like that was something i'd pick up on and I'd probably try to cheer him up too.

But I just thought it was sweet, like all the people that love Harry trying to cheer him on.

It's all.

Yeah, the thing that Harry can't pick up on anything here, he thinks.

It's almost as though they were waiting for him.

What do you think they're doing?

You walk into a room and six adults are waiting at five thirty in the morning.

They're just hanging out.

Yeah, serious, think got anywhere to be?

That boy was still being asleep.

Molly's making breakfast.

I guess, yeah, like Arthur at least happen.

Yeah, I was gonna say, Arthur's up for work, Molly's up for food.

I think obviously Sirius lives there and didn't.

Tonks just said she got off a shift, so maybe Lupin was also on a shift.

I don't know.

I mean they were clearly hanging out there for Harry, but I think a few of them, even if they weren't hanging out for Harry, would have been there.

But it doesn't GE's cute.

It's it's one of those rare moments where Harry has adults in his life that are like one hundred percent cheering him on for something and not trying to be like that.

But maybe do this.

Let me tell you this, but I'm not going to tell you that.

And you know, he's not getting jerked around.

He's just getting full on support, which is.

Very nice, right well, And I mean we also are hearing a little bit about what the what the Order is is really doing here because Tonks has curly blonde hair, I think she's at least like we know, she just got off of that duty.

Yep.

I identified with that.

When I read that, I was like, oh, she's a curly blonde.

So I mean, if you really think about what the Order is being asked to do, like just in tonks here, she has night night shift, she has her normal like order job, and then she's talking about having to do night shift again.

So like there's not a whole lot of time in here to do, you know, not life.

I'm not even necessarily saying life things like as far as the order is concerned, where it wore now, But there's no break.

I guess it's a really big pool to ask.

But then Arthur does step in.

I hate you take a break.

I'll take it to not you.

Know, you're gonna say as someone who has years ago when I had a regular full time job, but then I got an offer to be a photographer on a film set, and I was like, oh, I want to go do that.

So I would work all day at my job or all day at the film, and then go to the other job in the afternoon or the evening.

So like we had three weeks of night shoots, and then there were like three weeks of day shoots, so I would like work on the film during the day and then go into the office for five or six hours at night, and then the reverse when we were on night shoots.

Yep, And I gave myself stomach alcer so tonks.

You better be careful there, kid, because you're walking down a tough road.

Don't overwork yourself, friends, it is not a fun road to walk down.

Yeah, don't do it.

I made a lot of money over those six weeks, I'll tell you that, but it was not worth it.

Not worth it though, it was not worth it.

So I kind of there's this mention of being on guard Judy and I kind of just picked up there.

Obviously, Harry is not in a position to be thinking of anything other than his like upcoming hearing, But why don't the Trio pick up that the Order is still doing guard duty?

Like earlier, when Harry arrives at grim old place, they're talking about all the things that the Order's doing, and then Run's like, hey, you know, they seem to be watching over something, like they're guarding something, and Harry's like, well, it couldn't have been me, right, and they're like oh, and then they just drop it.

But then there's this kind of like ongoing talk of being on guard duty, and the Trio, like they usually do pick up on stuff like this, like why hasn't it been discussed by them?

Or like I get right in this very moment, like Harry's distracted.

But I'm just kind of wondering why they didn't pick up on it, because surely this isn't the only time guard duty is being discussed.

Like the order members aren't cagey about it, you know, they're freely talking about it with each other, and yeah, like why was this missed?

I guess, or is it important even that?

Like what you know?

I think directly in this instance, as you said, it's a little bit of a nugget for the reader, because we're supposed to remember what we what that conversation you just mentioned, like, oh, it couldn't be me their guarding and they're like, oh, and drop it.

I think it's supposed to be a little nugget for the reader.

Obviously Harry's not supposed to pick it up.

But I would be inclined to say the only reason they're mentioning it here is because it's Harry and he's alone and it's five point thirty in the morning, and he's going to forget or not pay attention because he's distracted.

And I think that maybe they their guard is just down a little bit.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

I hear you that they're not being cagy about it, but I think that they don't freely talk like this around the other kids.

That'd be my guess.

Well, and it's also Tonks that starts it, and we know that Tonks isn't exactly the most like careful.

I guess she's not haggard level of anything, like, she's not that thankfully, but I do think that she's a little less careful than what the other ones would be.

And it's probably a discussion.

It's a carry on of a discussion that they were probably having before Harry came downstairs anyway, you know, like if they're all waiting regardless, they were talking about whatever happened the night before now and Tracy.

It is also interesting to me that they don't call it like guard duty.

Here in the previous chapter they did talk about it being guard duty, and.

I think it was did they think they Yeah.

I thought that Tongs just called it night duty.

Oh well, this may be a piece of us having different.

Book Let me see, I'm gonna let me show you this book like Sidekicks.

So obviously British edition is the Australian what we have in Australia.

And I was like, Hey, cool, I haven't read this in so long.

And then I like, yeah, it's been read, Yeah, it's been read that many times, and I was like, oh, amazing.

I've only really been listening to the audiobooks for maybe the past like ten years, so it's been a while.

Anyway, let me find this.

Okay.

So in this yes, in the copy that I have, Tonk says, I'll have to tell Dumbledore I can't do night duty tomorrow.

I'm just too tired.

Yeah, that doesn't mean that the British editions, Now that's what because that has happened.

That's what it says here.

But then a little bit later, Okay, I believe earlier its specifically referred to God Judy.

Yeah no, maybe not.

I thought it was mentioned twice.

Okay, no, maybe maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I'm wrong.

It wasn't the first time that would have happened on the show, and it won't be the last.

Later in the guards are mentioned later in the chapter when they're talking about the underground, like the underground like ticket picker guard.

Okay, so maybe that's it.

Maybe the word just it was a little earworm.

It got stuck in your head.

It happens yeah, yeah, still anyway, Nope, I mean I think it's still a valid point though.

I mean they're still talking about night duty and stuff.

I think your point stands, even if the words aren't the words you thought were the words.

Yeah, I still think your point stands.

And I honestly never picked up on that at all.

So I guess I'm just as bad as Harry in the trio because I never even occurred to me.

Yeah, well, Molly's trying to feed him, and also, you know, as I said, they're all sort of cheering him on.

And I think it's loopin' or maybe it's tongs because Tonks starts yawning when she's talking about her night duty and someone asks Harry, like how he slept or something.

Yes, so Harry said.

Harry says that he slept fun There's no way, there's no way he slipt.

Fon one, he had this hearing today that we all know about that we're all scared about, as readers were scared about it, and then the not before they go to bed, like he goes.

He goes to bed frustrated because Dumbledore has been in the house and didn't talk to him, so like there's no way.

Why is the boy lying?

I know why he's lying.

Reaction I'm good, Like is it reflex like the standard?

It was fine?

And he doesn't want to get into a big discussion and have people like hddling or finding over him and asking this.

Chapter he shrugs, Yeah, feelings.

Feelings are hard, you know, like what you know?

Is he going to spill his heart out to to all them?

Like, oh, I'm really nervous and like, that's not Harry, you know, very stoic, and I was, Yeah, No, he was definitely up tossing and turning all night for sure.

Yeah, for sure, Oh Harry.

Yeah.

I mean, it's just it's really just amazing to me how much gets thrown on Harry this early in the book itself, after what we came out of with Goblet of Fire, and then I consistently come back at Dumbledore of this is.

I think where he goes the most wrong is not being here for Harry at the beginning of Order.

Yeah.

I just don't.

I don't know.

Now, going back to what you were mentioning, Kat, one way that they do try to make Harry feel better is like letting him know that they know Amelia Bones and that she seems.

Fair, yeah, which would be super helpful if he was actually going to see her, which when I was listening to this again, I was thinking, Man, how different this would have gone if we had actually gotten to see him in her office have the interaction with her.

And I mean, we do see her interact with him during the hearing, but it would have been kind of cool to see like a one on one.

And I was also noticing that Lupin has such faith in the law, saying that, oh, they're fair and even wizards can use underage magic in certain circumstances, because he's just he's not he doesn't understand what's going on in the ministry and the corruption that's already begun.

And they're assuming that Amelia Bones is going to be taking the meeting and that she is going to be fair, but little do they all know something else is brewing.

Is he just saying that to kind of make Harry feel better?

Like, does does Lupin truly believe it?

Well, that's a good question.

I wonder that too, because you know, were wolves have not exactly been treated barely by the law by the Ministry, so it's interesting that he would say that in the first place.

Yeah, but then again, he's not going to be like, oh, Harry, they're unfair, Like he wouldn't say that, So yeah, like, yeah, is it?

The werewolf thing was the exact point I was going to bring up, Like how can Lupin have this faith in the law?

Like I don't remember all of Lupin's backstory, but so he got bit by Fenry or grayback when he was really young, and like nothing happened, right if I remember, Like obviously Fenrier was like out free asked was he an askaban?

Ever?

Like what am I forgetting about Lupin's.

Like his dad worked for the ministry and he right, and he drafted some bill against werewolves or for the regulation of werewolves, and that's why Lupin was targeted.

Maybe he grew up like his his dad was working in the public service, so you know, his dad was maybe he saw the good side of what I don't.

Know, Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, it's probably just like he grew up in a copp family and so he has a hard time saying that clocker bad people, you know, or yeah, letting go, letting go of that faith that his father instilled in him.

All that makes me kind of I mean, as we have progressed talking about looping over the show, Like I still love and appreciate him as a character, but that makes me feel for him a little more, but he is pitiable to the twentieth degree.

It could also just be a situation where I mean, I do not trust our government in the States.

I trust some of our politicians some of them, but I do not have faith that our government is not corrupt.

Right, So there could be a situation where like, they know that the government is corrupt, but the order, whether it's through Dumbledore or through Lupin or through Arthur whoever that have our relationship with Amelia Bones has faith in her.

And that's why they feel better about the thing being with her.

You know.

It's just like they all seem to believe or at least they're saying that Amelia is fair and just, so they trust the system that she is over because she'll hear Harry out.

But it's it's really proof that like, trust in our systems only go as far as the integrity of those people that are in those positions.

So put that on a T shirt for me, huh.

And to be fair when they actually get to the hearing, she is the one that kind of steers it in the other direction.

Yeah, so I mean, yeah.

Well what what what it does seem like is is during the hearing that you have Umbrage and Fudge on one side and then you have Amelia kind of leading the charge of what are we doing here?

Like this seems kind of stupid?

And because that hearing, that hearing really gets positioned Fudged versus Dumbledore, which as readers it makes sense, but if you look at it further, if you look at it as far as like what government actually is, and maybe maybe it is maybe it is Fudge an Umbradge versus Dumbledore and Amelia, you know what I mean?

Just in the law right?

Yeah?

Yeah, were you on that episode because we just talked about that chapter not to not too long ago.

I was there.

Yeah, I remember, okay.

Because I thought it was funny because I was like, oh, now we're going backwards because we did the hearing and now.

I'm telling you they're like the random chapter generator thing that we did has done some really fun things which have been great as we've been going through these one episodes.

But anyway, I did have a question though, Tracy, I do not have receipts for this.

Tracy, is this the first time that we hear about Scringe or is this the first time?

I think it might be the first time.

And I guess for me, like it was, it's something that you wouldn't notice the first time you're reading it.

It's just kind of a passing comment.

It's only when you and even when you get up to whichever book isn't the next book when he becomes the Minister for magic, like maybe his name's mentioned, it's like he introduces a new minister.

I'm sorry, yeah, the Minister of Yes I am, I'm getting that right.

It might not even like twig in your brain, but it's when you go back and kind of reread the books and you're like, oh, hey, that like they spoke about him here and I kind of thought it was interesting that they they're kind of saying, or is it he's like asking funny questions, like that's what like, be careful around Scrimger.

He's asking funny questions.

So does this?

I guess is this a hint that if when he does come into that position of power, he's not going to be that ally to the aora of the Phoenix that he could have been, you know, like I guess for us, like you know when when Fudge is out and you're like, great, there's a new Minister for magic.

Maybe things are changing.

But this is a hint where even though there is all of this kind of corruption and stuff, he's asking the funny questions.

So he's like showing that there isn't an allegiance to I don't want to say the greater Good, but you know, the greater good like a resistance to like the Dumbledore side of things.

Well as so, Scripture's background is that he's the head of the Horror office, right, so he's like the lead investigator, the guy who asks all the questions.

So I have to wonder what they mean by quote funny questions.

What does that mean?

Does that mean that he is probing Kingsley more frequently about serious Does that mean that he's asking like hmm.

Tonks, why are you so tired?

Yeah, why you're so tired?

Or like why is your hair different every day?

Or like why is Arthur Weasley in here?

More frequently?

I just kind of wonder what the funny questions mean because I think my instinct would be that he is just being the inquisitive individual that he is, and they don't realize that they're the ones that maybe are acting differently in suspectus.

I mean maybe they know that.

Do you get what I'm getting at, Like, I think he's just being himself and they're noticing that he's noticing yep, I guess yeah.

I mean he's head of the office for a reason, right, I mean yeah, And and so you you have these you have these competing interests here too, So he sees his employees essentially maybe acting stranger like you said, Tracy with yeah, just differently in general.

But then there could also be something coming from the top down from Fudge going hey, won't you keep an eye on anyone that has something to do with Dumbledore?

And I don't and and and there's a possibility that over the years Kingsley has has shown some type of I don't know, pref Yeah, pref friends are allegiance, so we're just compassion toward Dumbledore's cause, and so keep an eye on them.

You know, Yeah, I guess like on that point, like it has only been well it's been like four weeks, eight weeks since the Order of the Phoenix have been reformed?

Is that right?

Am I right in thinking that, like, it hasn't been a long time.

We get the date.

What's the date of Harry's hearing?

August August eighth, isn't it?

Oh wow, when he.

Gets his letter, let's see, let's look it up.

I know it's in one of the previous chapters.

Who will find it?

First August twelfth, So this is August twelfth, And all of that stuff that happened at the end of the last book was mid June, mid late June, midley June.

So yeah, it's only.

Been yeah, six six verse six eight weeks.

Yeah, And so how I guess my point, like, how where does Kingsley come into this?

Because he's a new recruit.

He wasn't in the Order last time around, so he's a new recruit, so obviously, like he seems like he's pretty not high up in the order, but like he seems like he's a pretty like important member of the Order.

How did he become so entwined with the Order in such a short period of time?

Moody Moody, Yeah, okay.

Yeah, really I'm sure.

Well, I don't know.

I'm just saying I just assumed that they had worked together at some point over the years before Moody retired, and Moody especially after he after he retired, I feel like he's definitely more of a straight shooter with hair.

Are you on our side or what?

Like?

What are we doing here?

And you know, I mean just having more conversations getting to know people.

There's a possibility that Moody's the one that recruited.

That's what's really nice about having somebody like Moody in the order to begin with, is that you can recruit new.

People who do have an allegiance to Yeah, yeah.

And especially in that in that line of work, like who's best to fight dark wizards?

Or and I wonder I wonder too if maybe Arthur might have had a little bit to do with it, because how closely do their departments usually work together, Because we see Kingsley asking Arthur to find out information about certain things some what was it like a muggle something or another find out about something.

I don't remember what it was.

I and my book is across the room.

But regard to taking.

They are flying flying motorcycle.

That's because they're looking for for serious So how often do their departments work together.

Yeah, And do they know each other before?

Yeah?

Yeah, Looms, Yeah.

I am.

I appreciate in Lake all of these answers, But I just want to believe that Kingsley is a person who wants to be deeply involved in these type of things.

I'm just thinking from my own point of view that if I find something that I want to be involved in, I'm going to be involved in it.

I'm not going to half at it.

I'm going to haul at it.

And Yeah, I just like to think that maybe Kingsley's like me.

Yeah, well, I mean maybe that's also that kind of goes back to why Scrimmer's asking funny questions, because maybe there has been I'm not going to say like a big change in Kingsley's character, but if he was in charge of the hunt for serious pre the Order of the Phoenix reforming, and he was, you know, very whatever it is, I don't know if he was questioning it or saying this might not like if he is who we think he is, he would have been saying these things don't add up, why would serious be here?

What you know?

And then all of a sudden he's now on this big hunt for serious, like he's a ministry man.

And you know, is that what's triggering Scrooge to ask the questions?

You know, because obviously Kingsley is now trying to cover his work with the Order of the Phoenix.

Yeah, and so now he's like, oh, we have to find serious Look, he's been here, he's been here, and he's planting this like misinformation.

Maybe he's the one who wrote to the Quibbler about serious Being and that guy from the band You'll know what I'm talking about.

I can't think of the name Stubby Boardman.

Stubby, Yes, that's it, yep.

I mean, who knows, right?

That does happen in this being?

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying.

But another thing that always makes me kind of gangle because Stubby Boardman and Luna always good for that is Molly trying to flatten Harry's hair.

I just think it is like the quintessential like mother thing.

My mom always used to do that to me.

She'd like, get the comb wet and get my hair wet and be like, what are you doing?

It's just so cute and I love it.

She's like, does it ever lay flat?

And he shakes his head and then I can just see it like popping back up.

It's adorable.

A hit.

Yeah, Like I'm not going to watch the TV show, but like put that in a TV show, okay, Like I need those cute little moments because that's the only thing that's going to make it worth it in my opinion.

But you know, but eventually Harry and Arthur leave, and I would like somebody to make an animated series or like a comic book or something where we travel through the Muggle world with Arthur because him being like in love with all the Muggle things again is just the cutest thing.

I really appreciate Arthur.

This isn't the right word that his childish side, that's not the right word.

Whimsical side.

Yeah, be fun to watch.

I would totally watch that.

That'd be fun to watch.

It would be fun to watch.

I do think it's cute.

Well, we only get to do that because Arthur thinks that it's best to arrive in a non magical way, which, like I don't think Arthur is comfortable having Harry do cydalong apparition or anything like that, but just pointing out that it's it's best to arrive non magically.

Do we think that that would actually make a difference here.

I mean, I want to say no, but probably, I mean, isn't.

Crazy like in an ideal world, No, it wouldn't make any difference, like if it was a magical child arriving under the circumstances with magical parents, like how else are they going to get there?

But with Fudge and this ministry in charge, it is definitely something that they can turn around and say, see, you couldn't even arrive at the hairry without using magic.

See, so it is definitely something that Fudge could use against him.

I don't think he should, but.

Yeah, yeah, And that's that's the that's really the point, right, is that maybe Fudge would use that against him.

But we know that this hearing is already stacked against Harry in general.

But if it were just Amelia, knowing what we know about, knowing what we're told about Amelia Bones by the other Order members at this breakfast, I don't think that she would care.

I think that she would see a wizard boy arriving with a wizard adult to come to a hearing, and that's kind of it, you know.

But I think that that's also why Fudge changes it.

Spoiler changes it to I know, sorry, listeners, We're not going to have a meeting.

I've never read these never read these books before.

Thanks to.

Ed Way to ruin it on our second chapter revisit of this one.

But anyway, I don't know.

I just I just don't see she would care.

I just I don't think it hurts necessarily non magically.

But I don't think she would make a big deal if he did.

I mean, let's think of other examples.

So let's say, okay, let's say somebody gets a duy, like don't show up to court drunk.

Okay, sure, Well, like what other examples are there that we can make parallels and say, oh, that makes sense or that doesn't make sense.

Like what else would you get a citation for, even just as a muggle, Like not wearing your seatbelt that doesn't really apply.

If you have a suspended license, don't get pulled over.

I mean, I don't know, Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know.

I mean the drunk the drunks that I know, Like we're having trouble come up with anything else.

It's also just not normal to be drunken public.

It is normal for wizarding families to travel magically.

Yeah, that is true.

That is true.

I don't know.

I think maybe it's along the lines if we say a thing in my house is solid advice is don't do something illegal while you're doing something illegal.

So for them, it's like, for Harry, it's kind of like, don't do the thing that you were accused of doing while you're going on trial for the thing that you were accused of doing.

Girl, that's a saying in your house, how many illegal things are you doing?

This is just proactive advice.

No, it's a podcast to listen to you, and they do a whole segment it's called Morons in the News, and they do a whole segment where the people in the stories are typically doing something illegal while they're already doing something illegal.

So I got you.

Yeah, it's just well, so active proactive advice, that's all.

Yeah, okay, we'll stick with that.

We'll pretend.

But carrying on with this tune of like Arthur being like adorable with all things muggle, the narration says that Harry pays because Arthur is quote not good with muggle money.

And listen, okay, sure, but to have all of you seen what British money looks like the numbers are right there, and Arthur knows how to count, right, I mean, I understand, I mean galleons are dollars.

I mean obviously the the conversion is not the same, but they are essentially the same.

Bill I understand him, maybe not understanding like pennies and you know, the things that are smaller than a pound.

But like Arthur, my dude, it says five right on the Bill.

Makes zero sense that he is not good at any Muggle things, because that is his job.

You meant to be expert at all things muggle.

But I guess, I guess lean to it's just for the comedic effect, because he should know how to use money.

He should know And there's like a number of times where he like says the wrong words, so like later on in the chapter he says pumbles instead of plumbers, and then like there's other chapters where like has he said like please men or the felly tone or like is that him that said all this?

Like he should know all of that stuff.

This is it's not just like it's like us, like who are big like Harry Potter nodes not knowing the correct terminology of Harry Potter.

Things like granted, we get it wrong every now and then.

But you know these are like like plumbers is like a thing, and money is a thing that you should know.

I guess for me, I always thought it might have the money thing might have just been a bit of a jab at, like the imperial system.

Maybe, Oh, as the only person who uses that, please tell us what you mean.

Like so like, I guess like money is met like money is metric, I guess.

So everything is like in tens in one hundreds like British money.

But galleons to me is like on par with the imperial system.

So like how many inches are in a.

Twelve top?

How many feet are in a what's the next yard?

Three point three?

How many yards are in a what's the next thing?

Mile?

No idea?

Yeah, so I guess.

Whatever that is divided by three and whatever.

For me, this Arthur, not galleons, is what is like seventeen sickles to a gallon and whatever.

It is nine something to it.

Brain is used to working in those kind of like odd measurements.

Again, you can't figure out the like metricness of muggle money that's.

Asked for that, but they asked for five.

And that's the thing.

That's the only thing that could explain it.

That's the very only thing that that would explain it to me.

But that being said, authored just Tracy, you.

Asked me for five centimeters and the thing says five centimeters on, I'm gonna pick it up and I'm gonna go this is five centimeters true.

But also it's it's strange too because we're coming off of last year.

They just did this at the Quidit World where he just had to count money before, So what happened?

Also, didn't he take Muggle studies?

What do they teach you in that class if they not how to use British pounds?

Like this is his expertise.

This is like he's obviously he's studied, his done Muggle studies.

He spends all of his time like reading Muggle things, and it's his hobby, it's his job, Like he should he should know, he should know, Yeah, he should definitely.

No, yeah, yeah, I mean it's like it's like the person who is like, I love Italy, but they don't speak a lick of Italian you know, yeah right, but.

They've only had little Caesars.

Oh wow.

So on the original episode, so Harry and Arthur get to the phone box.

On the original episode, they had a whole conversation about the tartists.

We don't need to talk about that here, but I do want to ask you, do you think that that this phone box is magically enforced in some way?

Because Harry comments about how they're sort of like on a backside street and it felt like a little shady to him, and what if that box was vandalized, And he does point out that it looks like it had been vandalized, like the the phone thing is not on there correctly, But maybe I was thinking I think it has to be magically enforced first, and second, I think the wizards sort of trashed it a little bit to make it look like a place that's already broken, to try to deter people from going.

I don't know, what do you think.

Could you imagine all of the letters that are being sent to like the UK government or like the London government of like we need to get this phone box fixed, and then they they can't fix it for some reason.

It's just like the portrait that's in the Prime Minister's office that they cannot take they can't take down.

Yeah, I don't know.

That's amazing probably a lot, or maybe not.

Maybe if this is into like a shady, shady area, maybe there's people to see it.

There's just no gentrification allowed in this part of London.

Yeah, well, what if, like what if a Muggle does happen by and it looks like a regular phone booth and they try to use it, what's going to happen?

Like, is it going to does it double?

Does it work as a normal phone for muggles but as a wizard phone if you dial the right number for wizards.

I would imagine that it is just consistently out of order, like it does not work unless you type in that number.

My question is what happens if a Muggle just happens to pipe in six?

I think it's got to work, right.

Hello, mug, It's got to work or do you want I don't know, wouldn't that go against the statue to secrecy?

If you if you know Englily answer.

Yeah, I mean what happens if a Muggle picks up a wand why does anything happen?

Kind of muggle use a wand sorry sorry no, no, no no no.

The exasperation was because they tried to do that in Fantastic I gave a Jacob A.

I never watched the third film because I was like boycotting because it's but except for the first one and it's great.

But anyway, so I don't know because I never saw it.

But like like they like they they enchanted the wand to work for.

Him, so seriously, that's what they did.

So it was so I don't think anything would act actually happen if a real Muggle, No.

Because one simply amplify the magic of the person exactly the same.

Yeah, so is that the same thing with like this telephone?

So if a Muggle just types in six two four four two, do you have to be magical and then that has to like register that you're a magical person?

And if you're not, it's like a double like what is it like a like a double confirmation, Like you have to be magical, Like yeah, box senses that you're magical, and then you have to put in the number and it's like double what is it double opt in?

I don't know, double confirmation?

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I don't know.

I mean I think to the probability of if you think about British phone numbers, I don't think I I guess we'll hang on.

Let me look at some of my friend's phone numbers.

Now, I'm just wondering if any of them start with Oh, yeah, this one starts with a seven.

I was just thinking maybe I don't know what their numbers.

This one also starts with a seven.

It's only five.

It's only five numbers too.

I know, but I'm just thinking, like, okay, so they all start with seven, five, three something, So hang on, I've got a few more.

I that was the first.

If they were the first five numbers of someone's.

That's what I was trying to think, like what would happen?

But I just checked three British phone numbers, the first ones that came to mind, and they all start with seven to eight something.

So I'm wondering if that six two four four two was also specifically used.

Yes, spells magic, but also specifically used because it's not an exchange used in London.

So the odds of someone punching that in would be slim to none, because if you're trying to call another country from a box, you'd have to put the country code first, and then it wouldn't work.

Maybe we're overthinking this.

Yeah, maybe you can't get in if you're not a wizard.

Can't We can't have it now, We can't have a two hour long podcast if we don't.

Have a little nah.

Or maybe it's like is that a challenge?

Maybe they don't really see it, and maybe I guess maybe whoever said that it's just perpetually out of order.

Maybe it's like when they go to Saint Mungo's and the shop is like always in chambers affects that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, So do we think that this phone box is still there like right now in today as well in twenty twenty five?

Is this still the entrance the visitors.

Entrance, the visitors entrance of the Ministry of Magic?

Like what happens when the Muggle technology changes?

I did a Google search because I'm like, do these phone boxes even even still exist?

And so this is just from Google.

The red telephone boxes, iconic symbols of London, are still a familiar site despite their declining use due to mobile phones.

While many are now repurposed, they remain a popular photo opportunity for tourists.

Many phone boxes have been adapted by communities and repurposed for various uses, such as book exchanges, relatest stations and lot installations.

So oh, that was just.

My little, my little Google sleuthing.

All right.

Sorry, And it's so funny that you mentioned that, because I literally just saw a reel where someone had asked this question about the phone boxes.

So anyway, I want to see a wizard walk into the phone box has been changed into a defibrillator station and shock that head.

What's the stew?

That would be bad.

Yeah, that would be bad.

That's a great question, because I think the only way it's removed is if the Wizarding World has caught up to even the nineteen eighties when it comes to Muggle tech.

Yeah.

I mean, so if we if we think we get you know, Deathly Hallows Is ninety seven to ninety eight, and then we get our nineteen years later, but we don't really get any talk about tech there.

So our last reference to tech is really sort of some of those camping scenes when Harry and Hermione and Ron are like in the Muggle worlds in like nineteen ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight, and they don't use any technology.

I mean, they still write with quills, for God's sake.

But I guess like in the Muggle world, like, at some point these phone boxes are removed.

Well, yeah, they're removed, and then so what happens is this like is this the last telephone box standing?

And then it becomes this massive tourist attraction and then there's all of these muggles swarming around there because it's all last phone box?

Like what do they do?

Do they just how like what do we think?

How do they adapt?

I think it's still there.

I think it's still there.

And to your point, I actually after I watched the reel, I did a Google search and according to someone who lives in the UK, they are marked as historical landmarks, so they actually cannot be removed, which is why they've been repurposed.

So I think it's still there.

And I think I think maybe they've just put in what is it?

What is it that they have on Hogwarts an undetectable charm or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean they're in cohoots with the Muggle government, so I think that could be something they could easily like set up and be like, hey, you can't take that out?

Why I'm not going to tell you, alrighty, you know, So I sort of think maybe that's where they are.

I would tend to agree that it's there as well, just because I don't have faith that the Wizards have caught up to any sort of technology to do anything different.

And if it's the visitor's entrance, yeah, I'm wishni I think how oft Yeah, probably pretty probably pretty irregularly.

I just I very much disagree with that.

Like, really, think of all the people that are in trouble with the like law enforcement, they have to go in for hearings that aren't named Harry Potter, like, they have to use the visitors entrance if they're not government.

This is for anyone that's not a government employee.

So anyone that has government, this is for all intents and purposes, this is the this is the Wizarding World.

D M buh social Security Office like all the.

You know, come on, they don't have any of that.

I mean, it's I do like anyone that has a hearing, I mean Mundonga Fletcher probably has his own entrance.

Yeah, his house is directly connected like from the flutway to the Ministry.

Also, I mean, there are like no jobs outside the Ministry of Magic.

So I'm gonna say a counterpoint and say that actually few people use it because everybody works there already.

There are quite a few.

Because what job is there outside the Ministry of Magic aside from quidditch.

Player, private business.

Owner owners okay gone to Elie, everyone who lives in Hogsmade, the teachers, there's people who write.

The books, workers, trolley witch.

I have named like maybe thirty people, thirty people that need the wizarding license.

I suppose, I suppose, I suppose, But I found a really cool throwback comment on the original episode is from Miss Cheetah nineteen eighty seven, and she has a note about the six two four four two.

It says the dial number to get into the Ministry of Magic is a different number.

In the Dutch edition of Order of the Phoenix, their translation of magic and Dutch is MAGI.

I'm probably saying that wrong, but it's m A G I E.

So the last number is the three instead of a two.

So six two four four three.

I thought that was really interesting.

I thought that was cool, just you know, we like to talk about translations and things.

That's really cool.

It's actually some that like at the time when I read the book, it was when like we all had our nochia phones, you know, and so very much in that texting in that way, like using the numbers to like write text messages.

Yeah, you have to hit the sex three times to get the end.

Yeah.

And so it was actually like, that's actually something that I did pick up when I originally read the books.

And I'm not like a genius or anything, like, I didn't pick up on very many things.

Like most things just just went straight over my head.

But don't knock yourself, Tracy.

When I you know, I was like a teenager at the time, so I was just reading the books.

But that's something I was like, oh, hang on, like what does that spell?

It's actually something that the first time I read the books, I picked up that its spelled magic.

And so it's really cool that when they did the translations.

I'm hoping that they did it in like all of the languages.

I'm sure they did.

It's probably not something that would be like readily picked up on nowadays with our use of you know, our touch phones and stuff, like we're not using that kind of numeric like alpha numeric whatever it is, like, we're not using that form to write anything for texting.

Yeah.

Yeah, it also took me a minute to figure out what you're talking about.

Because of your accent.

You said Nokia and I was like, it's no key, yeah, we we just say that.

Oh differently, it's no Kia Kia Okay.

Yeah, that's all.

And I was like, oh yeah, But then I got it.

I got it.

I think I gotcha.

I don't know what the real pronunciation.

Is, probably somewhere in between.

We're probably we're probably all very wrong.

Yeah, whatever, it doesn't matter.

Harry and Arthur somehow make it inside through the visitors entrance, and this weird magical AI voice is like, who please enter, and he puts his little badge on and they go inside and they say that he has to like register his wand but Harry is just sort of also in.

I don't think he's ever really been in other than you know, okay, other than Hogwarts and like the Quidish World Cup Stadium.

He's never really been in a place that is this grand before.

And he really takes in the whole atmosphere and just how big the building is and all of that, which I think is kind of neat.

I think wouldn't green Gots be considered about the same as far as like impressive facilities.

I mean impressive, yeah, but I don't think it's big.

Maybe I never got the impression that it was.

It's obviously vast underneath, but I sort of got the impression that the hall itself isn't that big.

That could be the films leaking into that could be the films leaking into my impression of it there too.

Honestly, I think it's the films getting in the MODI yeah, I don't think that.

I don't think I'm picturing green dots.

I think I guess what I'm doing with the greenots is more of what like Tom Riddle did where he put a horse hurts there for you know whatever, you know, because that was I don't know it made it made an impact on him whenever he visited diagon Alley for the first time.

Sure, so, yes, we have entered the Ministry and Harry's looking around and probably owing and on and seeing all this cool magical stuff.

But I have a problem with this fountain that's hanging out in the middle of everywhere.

It's got a wizard in the middle with a witch and other creatures staring up at him in adoration.

Now, I will say it's better than the fountain that ends up there later where they're standing atop the muggles.

But does anybody else find this a little icky?

No?

You are totally and completely alone in this thought, and no one has ever, ever, ever, ever no thought.

No, you aren't one, no everybody.

It's total.

It's bad.

Like I never really noticed it until this reread, Like I just kind of glossed over it.

But this time I really listened because I listened to the audiobook and I was like, wait a minute, and I had to rewind it and listen again.

Yeah, it feels it feels icky.

Yeah, which is crazy because like, oppressors never do this.

Never, this never happens.

I mean, yeah, I am not, of course putting down all of the other representation in this uh fountain, but I think you all know what I'm gonna say is that I think the I think the yuckiest one is the one with the elf because it's it's it's one thing to like uphold the patriarchy, Like, yes, sure the witch is there and she's looking up at the wizard like, oh, that's just patriarchy.

I'm not saying just but you understand what I'm saying.

It's a different kind of oppression for the goblin and the elf they're standing there.

I find them all equally icky.

But I find the elf and the goblin one.

It's like elf goblin woman.

Maybe I should be going the other way.

But you get what I'm saying, right, Yeah, yeah, they're all gross.

It's ick.

This is well.

But I do love that we see Harry doing a little bit of bargaining here.

I think he's in that that desperate state of mind where he's like, I'll do anything to make sure this goes the way that I want it to go.

And he's standing in there bargaining, I'll put ten gallions and if I get off, And I just think it's really cute.

Yeah.

Also ten gallions that is like seventy bucks.

Yeah, that's a lot of money.

That is a lot of money to donate.

He's serious, he needs to get off rich.

He's rich.

He is rich.

You're right.

I was just gonna say he's rich.

A new wand of seven gallons.

So yeah, yep, yeah, it's expensive, it's expensive.

But then we get to meet Eric the security witch wizard, security guy.

He's a security wizard.

I don't know, for a hot moment, for a hot moment I wondered if he was a squib.

But he's not.

I just for some reason this time when I was renound like, it's Eric a squib, but he's not.

He's not a squib.

He is a security wizard.

Just to be clear.

Yeah, I was kind of wondering, what, like, what is the there's like a long golden rod that he kind of holds up like swipes Harry up and down with, Like is that the secrecy sensor?

And what is he trying to detect?

That is the proberty probe?

And what's the thing that friend George say, they're gonna whoop, right?

And so is that the same thing as the secrecy censor?

Are they two different things?

And I do not think they detect.

Yeah, I don't think that they're the They're the same.

Wait, isn't proberty probe just a nickname?

I don't think so, because in definitely Hallows when they are visiting Green Gods, proberity probes is capitalized.

So I do think that it is a brand name of some type of sensor.

They could be called a secrecy sensor.

Tracy seems as though she is looking that up right now, which.

Is Okay, So so proberity probe is the Kleenex and secrecy sensor is the tissue.

Yeah, that makes sense, is what I'm just trying to say.

What was do do you understand?

I get it.

You both looked at what was that?

Kleenex is the brand name, and okay, and definitely hallows it says the probes Harry knud detected spells of concealment and hidden magical objects.

And the from what I'm getting from Google, take this with the grain of salt.

The secrecy sensor is used to detect general concealment.

All right, so it's kind of like a metal detector.

I guess.

Wait, oh well, hold on, secrets Lexicon says, a probe probe is the long, thin, flexible golden rod used like a Muggle security wand the checks spells of a concealment and hidden magical objects.

Yeah.

Yeah, so the property probe is a like a metal detector.

A secrecy sensor is like an atmospheric kind of deal.

I don't know.

The lexicon says that they think they're the same thing.

Let me see.

Secrecy sensor, which is also capitalized in goblet of Fire, vibrates when it detects concealment and lies.

I do not think this could do that too, but we're not seeing it because there are no concealment in lies.

I don't think that a proberity probe would be able to detect a law.

I think that maybe.

I don't think that the best.

I just think it's the best name.

It's such a good I think they're the same.

I think they're the same.

I think they're the same.

This hard sec I mean, we know, we we know they're not the same because we we we are aren't they?

We know the property probe is described as a long golden rod, the secrecy sensorm.

Oh, I'm thinking about snecoscope.

I don't think.

I don't.

I think they're similar.

I think that they are marketed by the same security.

Company trying to sell two different things to do the same thing to get more money.

I mean, listen, there are there are thermometers that are specifically meant for them and not for the you know, so like maybe there's a special thing.

Maybe they are the same, but the property probe has a special like.

Attachment, yeah, thing for it.

Y'all gonna move on because I got all kinds of things I want to say, and I'm not saying them.

Being great, Okay, we we will, we will move on.

What is the point of the wand scale and keeping the slip of paper?

I think obviously it's for security, they like do the thing and people.

Yes, it's like a bellatrix, it's a wand thing, blah blah blah.

But in a world that is not at war, Like what does having the slip of paper that tells you what Harry's wand is made of?

What does that do?

Because if you are going to do like an investigation, which we know they're not because it's a wizarding world, right, they don't care about justice.

But let's say for Singerles, they did do like a priori in Cantatam or whatever to like find out like what spell you used last?

Why do you need to know what the person's wand is made of?

Like what just like paperwork?

Benefit?

Is it bureaucracy?

Yeah, it's well.

Yeah, paperwork, but also like gruesome here.

But like say there's like a terrorist attack and they're identifying bodies.

Well, at the end of this book that sort of happens.

Yeah you know you know who who came in.

Is this an employee?

I don't know, that's that's gone to a dark place.

But for the worst case scenario, yeah, Or if you're a person coming in like not accompanied by somebody who works in the ministry, like you're just there for a hearing, or you have to go get paperwork from an office.

Maybe it's so that you can keep the slip of paper on you in case they need to identify who you are for like your paperwork.

Maybe there's like a registry or like maybe they can scan it through something and it confirms their ID any kind of like a driver's license.

Maybe.

I think this is just data gathering for data gathering sake.

Yeah, paperwork bureaucracy, they're data mining.

Yeah why not?

I mean like it's just like having like fingerprinting almost, like we have record of all these things just to have them just in case we ever need them and if we can find a if we can find a sinister use for them later.

We will yeah sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean how for argument's sake, how does the wand how I get what you're hinting at.

I'm just trying to connect the dots.

How is the wand equivalent to a fingerprint.

I can sort of see it, but like a fingerprint is so unique to the individual.

I know wands are as well.

But if there are a thousand students, if there are a thousand students in Hogwarts, and let's just assume that every one of those students has two parents, because you generally need two people to make to make a child.

I said, generally, not always.

So that's three thousand wizards right there.

And that's only school from the pool of Hogwarts students.

Yeah, school age students whatever.

So let's just assume that there are ten times more than that, So three hundred or thirty thousand wizards in Britain alone, there have to be people that have the same wand I just feel like there aren't that many combinations.

I mean, the length, obviously, is is something that could someone Josh, you're the smart one, do the math.

How many combinations of wands are there?

I don't know how many.

You don't have to do it right now.

I don't know how many.

I don't know how many different woods there are the problem is that there's only three cores that oli And uses.

There are other cores you can use vila.

Hair, yeah, wand Woods, I'm going to count right now, hang on one, two, three, four.

But then also what if you have a borrowed one like Ronda like or if you have a hand me down one, So that doesn't necessarily.

Buy the privity what it maybe?

So does it go back to want to wand does it go back to run one or the original?

Yes?

Is it one?

Or is it the original owner of the wand?

Well, I mean, what what if it's I still go back to data morning like I think that it's.

Just thirty eight wand Woods.

Okay said thirty eight times three.

I'm sorry.

And then you have to figure the I mean the shortest wand we.

Are aware of is is umbrages.

Umbridge and it's like I think it's like even short.

I think it's like that short.

Wow, No, I.

Think it's like no, it's eight inches.

And then Hagrids is the longest we are aware of fourteen fifteen, sixteen sixteen, so and we have people with quarter inch increments, so you have to go quarter inch between eight inches and fourteen inches?

Which how many is that?

There's three one hundred new combinations there you.

Go, So wands just aren't as unique as a fingerprint, which you know they say, they say nobody has the same fingerprint.

I don't know if that's true.

I don't know that I believe that with however many billion people are on the planet now, But I we have belabored the fact.

Again, I guess that's what we do here.

I just don't see the point.

I guess bureaucracy.

I know it's so Harry, we'll go home and then he'll get targeted with ads on the internet.

Yeah, like the best the best oil for your holy and phoenix for the ones to make this is exactly.

Targeted for the wizard telemarketers.

That is a fantastic reason to never adopt technology.

I'm just saying, if I never had to have a targeted ad ever again, that would be the one that would be the one.

But anyway, they get into the elevator because Arthur, you know, they're going to Harry's hearing, and they see quote a very ordinary chicken who breathes fire, which I thought was incredible, and then Arthur says, looks like a serious breach on the band of experimental breeding to me, and I was just like in my head, I was like Hagrid, Hagrid Hagrid.

Hagrid has on a recent episode like when Umbridge probably you guys, like very recent and like Umbridge was questioning Hagrid about yep, you know, and then I was a discussion about like is it even illegal that Hagrid's done this?

Well, I guess this is like the precursor for that, like it it has to be.

Yeah, I mean he made the screws, he breeded the screw its, like that is experimental breeding.

Yeah, but Hagrid gets away with everything he really does.

I bet Bianca was on that episode.

I bet she called them think I'll.

Think that, and we're on the episode and I think we both called him that.

That makes sense, that makes sense.

That's great.

But I like, as they're in the elevator, I think this is really great that we get you know, we talked that this chapter is a lot of world building, and now that we're in the Ministry, there's even more of it because we get to see everything that's on every single level of the Ministry of Magic as they're going down, up, up, up up up, Yes, as they are going up, And I think it's fantastic.

I think it's fantastic.

That's the thing that stood out to me was the fact that they're going up, but the numbers are going down because they're technically underground, so they have to go up.

But if they answer so okay, now I have another question.

If they answer from the visitor's entrance they go down, do all the entrances enter underground?

Yeah, they yeah, because they go down, so it's all underground.

It's all yeah.

So they're going up, but the numbers are going down.

But I think it's like if you were at ground level and then you're going like up in an elevator, you go to like level one, level two, level three, level four, But we're starting at ground level, and so we're going to like level one, level two, level three.

Does that makes sense?

So like the height, so.

Think about like negative one negative.

So that's like it makes sense?

It does.

I'm trying to so I know, because we're starting at the atrium, which is like down the bottom, but then you were going like seven six, five, four three.

But if we're starting at the ground, I guess like the direct level that's below is level one minus one, which would be like the level one of the ministry, and then you go down a level and level two, So I think if we think of it, like the ground is our like zero level.

So like their top floor would be the typical ground level for a normal building where it goes up.

Yeah, yeah, just take the building and look.

Yeah, I'm totally overthinking this, Like yeah.

I think.

What struck me was like, there's seven levels, and it's like seven the most magical number.

But there's also.

There are other levels.

But what was interesting to me is that none of the other levels I wrote them all out here.

I won't write but everything's listed.

So seven sixty five for three two they get off foot level two, So we find out what's on all of those, but we don't find out what is on level one.

I think until deathly hallows.

That's like the Minister's office, right, But then there's presumably there's the atrium, which I guess we could call level eight, but they don't refer to it as level eight.

They just call it the atrium.

And then even below that there's Department of Mysteries, but they don't call it level nine.

So the elevator AI lady announces it as the Department of Mysteries.

She doesn't say level nine the Department of Mysteries.

And then I guess.

I'm guessing there is a level ten below that, which is the courtrooms.

But again it's it's not referred to.

The lift doesn't even go that low.

So like, why why is that?

Why?

Seven?

Is it just because seven seven is the most magical.

Not because there are is the other magical number?

And she couldn't come up with five more?

How about that?

Yeah, you really don't even need five more?

Well, I'll tell you what care?

Seven?

You need two more?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Ams eight?

Then the Department of Mysteries would be nine, and then the court rooms would be ten.

Yeah, but then what would the other two be.

A good question?

Well, I have another silly question.

On level seven, the elevator says Department of Magical Games and Sports, incorporating the British and Irish Quidditch League Headquarters, Official Gobstones Club, and Ludacrous Patent's Office.

And I wanted us to just contemplate for a couple of minutes on what some of those ludicrous patents could be, because maybe we'll stumble upon a new invention and we'll become billionaires.

Wouldn't that be great?

I mean, I don't want to be a billionaire, because that's unethical, But you get my point.

The only reason I would want to be a billionaire is so that I could give out the money to other people, Like well, right right, I'm a sharer.

So Josh is holding out his hand, He's ready for it.

You'd be a billionaire too, Broke.

We're going to invent this together right here on the podcast.

I think there is like there is a mention of patents and it's the Weasleys patented day dream charm.

Oh, they have had to go through this ludicrous patent's office or would it just be like the normal patent office.

Is the normal magical?

Everything gets submitted to the normal and then they have to divvy it out between themselves or the ludicrous like this is ludicrous.

I mean the fact that they have patents at all is incredible.

In the Wizarding World, I mean, they don't have just trials, but they have patents.

I mean, I guess money, right, money rules at all?

Even Yeah, that's smart.

I hadn't thought about the day dream charm.

I bet they definitely had to go through that office.

And I wonder if they called it like so does the ludicrous patent office?

Is it their job to say ludicrous or.

Valid, like like are they stamping it like ludicrous and it goes off one tube vallid, it goes up the other tube.

I don't know.

I think I think the flow chart starts a normal patent office and then they go normal or ludicrous and the ludicris patent office says, yeah, extra ludicrous or.

I just need to tell you, as a word, as an elder millennial slash xennial, how badly I want to bust out to a little Chris.

Yeah.

I'm struggling so hard every time I say it, I'm like, don't do it, don't do it.

Glad that I am not alone.

Let's let's hear it, Kat, because I believe you were the one who had some of those albums memorized back in the day.

So I'm that.

Was jay Z it was and it's because it was my crushes.

Yeah, no wrapping today, folks.

Sorry, Tracy already did it.

She did the Luto Yeah, anyway, she did it was perfect.

Yes, I think you have a note here about another level A.

Level six, A level six including the apparition test center.

So do they have to actually come to the ministry for their apparition tests or did they not do that at school because I remember when they took their tests and Ron failed because of like his eyebrow or something something very small.

Did they have to come into the ministry or did like the officials come to them and then they just bring the paperwork back to Yeah, because that would seem expressive.

I think it's just where all the paperwork is, like where all all the office workers kind of work.

It's where they do their day job, and then they'll go remotely out to different places to do the tests.

You know, probably where they keep copies of the licenses and stuff.

And no, I think I think that they would also test there.

I just think that during the hogworks, nothing matter, it's easier for them to go there.

But if you if you either have an out of out of school your birthday, if you have an out of if you fail your exam and can't retake it, you can retake it over the summer at the tests possible because they start Yeah, like if because like it's just like Harry, he can go to apparition class or whatever and like learn how to do it, but he can't take his exam.

So really Harry probably took his apparition test here.

So it's kind of like drivers said, where if you're not in traditional school you can go to like a driving school.

So this is like the people who didn't take it during the traditional school year, they can go and do like a makeup test or like yeah that makes sense.

Yeah, or if you turn yeah, if you turn seventeen over the summer or whatever you can, or sixteen.

I always seven.

Oh.

I always assumed that the classes we see at Hogwarts were very special and set up by Dumbledore because they're in the middle of a war.

I don't think it typically happens like that.

Maybe it does, but I always assumed it was a special case.

Oh really, So do you think they normally have to like schedule an appointment and come in like the d.

Do I do?

I mean, Josh was convinced that, you know, the Visitors Center we used a lot because of the DMV, and this would be the closest equivalent to.

The DMV, especially over the summer like we see here.

Yeah, so I don't know.

I do think I think Tracy's point of you know, this is the head office, and the people go and they do tests other places as well.

I think that's probably pausible, But I always thought it was like a Dumbledore special h So yeah, I particularly like that the memos use the elevator rather than simply flying through the building.

Do stairs not exist in the Ministry of Magic?

And can the memos not?

Just like you not?

Can you not.

See the like teleports through anywhere else?

You know what I mean?

Like is is.

They fly out the fake windows and then like into the like is it?

I mean the word atrium and the way again, maybe this is the film Loaking In, but I feel like the way Harry describes it or sees it, and maybe maybe it is just a film, but I think the word atrium on define atrium, so like yeah, and atrium is a central hall or court, so it's like like the inside it's like a motel where the doors are all on the inside.

So yes, the Ministry of Magic in the middle is open and the floors go around it.

But it's all waldaf so you have to go up the elevators to get to the different floors.

Yeah, but there, why aren't there?

Come on, there have to be stairs.

Because they're all at Hogwarts like likewarts use the stair allowance for the entire Wizarding World.

It's at Hogwarts, there doesn't have to be stairs because there's the reason that muggles.

The reason that we have stairs is that in case of an emergency, electronics and things and like elevators can break down.

A magical elevator is not going to break down.

Well, well.

Them elevate a Yeah, I wouldn't take the stairs.

I would either.

I'm absolutely taking the elevator every time.

But to that point, to the emergency point though, if there is an emergency of some type, do they just disoparate, you know, like can you disoperate and operate or do you have to take the food network or the visitor's entrance or whatever.

Arthur says, he'd don really operates in the work.

Yeah, does he operate into his office or into the into the tree all way?

Yeah?

So what if they're in their office in case of an emergency, how do they get out if you can only operate from the atrium.

Well, what if they're not working?

Like what if there's a massive.

If the aren't working, they're all dead.

So it's just oh well, too bad, out of luck.

That's a major problem.

Maybe not, I mean they will give just trials in the Wizarding World, I mean, I've brought it up like four times in this episode.

It's that's how big of a problem it is.

Well, wait, don't they take the stairs down to the courtroom?

Yeah, but there the lifts do and go down that far.

So the answer to my question, do stairs exist to the Ministry of Magic, Yes they do, but just not in between the other levels.

They don't service the whole building.

I just think it's funny and cute.

I don't know, there's lots of very cute world building things in this chapter that the the little paper airplanes flying to the elevator.

I don't know, it's very.

Queen So I mean to that point though, we're talking about how wizards don't need stairs really because they have elevators that would never break down.

But they still can't.

They still had to go to a different method than owls because there's just you still got to be something with your poop.

You know why.

Because they got sick and tired over the generations of taking up crap in the street and disappearing their poo that they just didn't want to deal with the owl pool any don't.

We but just leave it to like the magical maintenance guys like they can do it, right, Yeah.

Unless you're the magical maintenance guy and you're like, you will just have some paper airplanes.

They unionized.

We're not cleaning it anymore.

We're done.

We understand that you like your owls, but I bet they would like to be outside.

With real like in in real outside, not with like fake outside windows.

Yeah.

We'll get to it.

But those windows seem awesome, Yeah they do.

What also seems awesome is Level three Department of Magical Accidents and Catastrophes, including the Accidental Magic Reversal Squad, the Obliviator Headquarters, and the muggle Worthy Excuse Committee.

So here we go.

Let's hear some of those muggle worthy excuses and what makes an excuse muggle worthy?

The Muggle made me do it?

Like what are we doing?

Like is this to mugglate my homework?

Is this?

What is this?

Like why a muggle saw them do magic?

Or like I think it could be yeah, like.

Real world examples like gold Book examples of like when Pedigrew blew up the street and then they called it a gas explosion, so like this would be the job of that or like when they make those like shrinking keys, like Muggle bait and then the Muggles will just insist they keep losing them.

You know, So is this another one or is it just anything that like makes the Muggles seem a bit is ludicrous.

Yeah, well they are.

They connected the ludicrous Paige in office and the Muggle for the Excuse Committee.

So do you do you think Harry's paying attention to these different levels?

Like if if we were on the elevator for that first time, we would probably be asking Arthur questions.

But Harry is also now nervous because the hearing is coming right too distracted.

Yeah yeah, so I.

Mean Arthur's narrating a little bit.

Yeah, a bit.

The elevator is also full of people too, though, like everyone gets off on right here.

So I don't know, It's just it'd be nice to see not nerves, not nervous, Harry can be able to go hey, what like on a normal day.

Yeah.

I wonder if Arthur has a lot of contact with the Muggle Worthy Excuse Committee.

I would imagine I think that they would have to, But I don't know.

I feel like that whole department is like I'm going to use the G word here, like waste of gas light Muggles.

That's what it feels like.

Yeah, It's like when Aunt Marge got blown up, it was just like anaplexis.

My gosh, what do you mean you've floated away?

That didn't happen, and then they wiped her memory and that was all good.

Yeah, I guess ERTs.

That's an interesting tracy is thinking instead of like a wizard blaming a Muggle for doing something, it's like trying to come up with an excuse to like modify the memory of a Muggle.

Yeah, that's fun.

That's that's a very interesting way of thinking about it.

I bet you're right.

I bet that's what it is.

Like, what what's something that we could tell a muggle or you change the memory of a muggle too, that they would not question because you can't say.

You can't say, like if a hippogriff came and like attack them, you can't change it to a dragon attacks you, right, Yeah, But then it becomes like, oh, I guess it could be it could be a dog or a hulk came in and attacked.

Ye, a hawk's it has happened.

Wow, fighting words.

But Arthur and Harry approached the RROR office and Arthur's like, oh, we're gonna pop in here.

We're going to talk to Kingsley for a second.

So they go in and Kingsley has got this little cube and Sirius's face is everywhere.

Sort of as we talked about, he is now in charge of the hunt for Serious Black, which of course is comical to everybody because everybody knows where serious is.

But I think that's kind of a fun job.

I don't know.

If I was Kingsley, I'd be like, yeah, okay, I'll do that.

That sounds fun.

But was this always his job or has he recently taken it on since joining the Order?

Yeah, so, like it seems like also Kingsley has a brain fart when he calls them fire legs or and Arthur knows that they're not called fire legs.

But is it this is another time like Arthur does he know things or does he not know things?

Because I'm confused, Like.

Yeah, he did, at least just do a report on fire arm.

You're right, You're right, it's just recent memory.

But then if moving forwards, he would probably be the one calling them fire legs because it usually him that's getting these things missed up, and it seems out of character for Kingsley or is it just for for the drama and for like the show to like have this fake argument.

No, the entire exchange itself is brilliant.

I feel like it's partially for Yeah, for the drama.

Yeah, it's all it's all comedic relief.

That's what it's meant to be.

But now that we're here with Kingsley, I wanted to point out that our podcast question of the Week for the original episode boils down to basically, is Kingsley a trader?

So?

Is he considered a trader because of what he's doing, because of his job and and you know, joining the Order of the Phoenix?

And there were tons of great responses, but I pulled this one because I thought it was really interesting.

It's from Aaron White, and they say, trader is a word that, like selfish, has gotten a not completely earned bad rap.

Trader is this is only an aspersion from the perspective of the betrayed.

Every time a group rises up against their government, they are traders to that government.

That does not add automatically mean they are wrong, bad, lacking in integrity, evil, et cetera.

From the viewpoint of the ministry.

All these people, Snape, Loop and Kingsley, et cetera, are traders because they are working against the ministries practices.

However, from the Order's point of view, these practices are considered corrupt, and therefore these people are heroes.

They're putting themselves in peril for the cause in which they believe.

Ultimately, after the Second War is one wizarding History sees them as heroes too, but that's only because Voldemor was defeated and what was left of the Order took control of the Ministry.

Had Voldemore prevailed, the death Theaters would have taken hold of the Ministry and people like Kingsley would have been painted as misguided, traitorists, foolish failures.

History is after all written by the victors, and as such it presents the victor perspective.

Wooh wooh, Aaron Waite snaps for that comment, so good, very succinct, perfectly put.

I personally have.

No nothing to add.

I guess no exactly, I guess like that question.

When I saw it written there, my first thought was like, how dare you?

But then also yes, yes, Kingsley is a trader, not from not from our point of view.

But he is actively going to work, and he's not just like not doing his job.

Like it's not like he's quiet quitting, Like he's not just doing nothing.

He's actively planting misinformation about the task that he's meant to be performing.

So in the eyes of the ministry, yes, absolutely, he's a trader.

He is working, actively working against the ministry.

So yes, I'm not saying that he's wrong, but yeah, but yes, for.

More reading the American Revelation, I don't know what else to do.

You know, As I was after I read Aaron's comment, and I was as I was reading the other podcast Question of the Week responses, they had a lot of discussion about Peter Pettigrew and how they felt like he was the only true trader in the series because no matter sort of what side you're on, he does something that is nefarious that because he's really only for himself.

He's not doing it for the sake of other people or aside.

Yes, like one could argue that he does it for Lord Voldemorre, but he's really doing it to protect himself.

And I thought that was a really interesting conversation because, yeah, are there any other people like Pedigrew who could be seen as a trader, but actually really aren't.

I'm not saying Peedtigrew's not, but do you know what I'm saying?

And I thought about it a lot, and I couldn't come up with anybody else, Sisa.

Honestly, everyone would view Narcissa as a trader from I guess Stumbledore side, because she is with Lucius and on Boltemort's side at least, and like maybe helping the cause there, and then she does become a trader for her own self interest to get back to Draco.

She you know, turned trader on Voldemort.

And I don't know, I don't know if that if that, if that goes all the way, that's a trader, but that is that is her doing the same thing that Pedigrew did and like her own self interest at least.

Yeah, no, I think I think that's a good example.

In a way.

Mandungus could kind of be seen as a trader too, for the whole fiasco when they're transporting Harry into Seven Potters the way, because he does he disappears like he he is out for himself, he's out to protect himself, and he just disappears away and causes chaos.

The death of Moody.

Oh that happens because of him.

I think it's just cowardice.

I wouldn't.

I wouldn't.

I wouldn't do that, trader because he didn't go.

He didn't go to help or support the cause of Voldem.

He just bugged out.

Oh yeah, I guess right, because technically he didn't want to be there.

That's where I see more of like Draco.

Draco and Manungus fit more in the cowardice roles than yeah, uh than traders.

Like I don't consider Draco a trader.

I consider him a coward.

Oh yeah, he is a coward.

Capital c.

Oh, capital c.

Yeah.

It's a big old sea baby, it's a big old see.

But I'd be really interested to know what listeners think about that.

Again, they had this conversation in the comments back on episode eighty four his podcast Question of the Week.

But you know, we have a lot of new listeners now, so go tell us what you think and dumb Josh, it is now your turn.

You can talk about these enchanted windows.

Yes, so, and I agree they sound incredible.

Yeah.

So, my at my house, my office is in my basement.

I have one window on the very far end, and like eventually I would like to wall it off.

But if I wall it off, I'll have no there's no acter light that comes in at all.

And like I've seen people, I've seen things of like digital picture frames you can put up on the wall and it has like a nice outdoor like you can put it like put it in an outdoor picture.

But these are beaming like it says sunlight is streaming through the windows, like the magical windows, I guess, And it just seems I don't know, they just seem really perfect for a situation like this where we want an after light.

We know the n after light has like positive impacts on mood and metal stability and all these kinds of things.

What a perfect convention, What a perfect It's not even a ludicrous patent.

It is a wonderful patent.

But do we think that it has been ludicrously patented?

You know what?

I think.

I think that I think it did get through the ludicrous patent office because I think the first time you said I want real like magical streaming sunlight or streaming or like weather to come through my window, I think that's ludicrous.

And then they were like it's not a terrible idea.

And then they got you know, every everyone thought electricity was ludicrous and now look at us.

I like it.

I like the idea of it being like the real thing, but not.

I just love that.

Tracy asked a question and all I all I had was yet, yes, I think that I have.

I will give you no elaboration on that.

I just feel like I was I need it.

Well, so we you know, we we we see that Arthur.

Arthur does mention that.

I guess at one point in time, there's like two months where they just got hurricanes in their windows.

So like if some light can stream through the winda, like I reckon that, Like it's not something you can like open or anything like that, but like if you look out, it's just it just be dreary.

All the time.

They were herds rattling.

Yeah, Like I wonder if like there are some type of physical responses to that, because if some light can stream through the winda and there's a hurricane outside of it, you would think that it would be rattling.

There's sound effects, there's there's like a little like cold breeze coming through the that would be amazing.

Hmm.

I'm here for it.

Yeah, I don't know.

But is it is it just the light or is the sun producing heat as well or is it just light?

Well, if you can get some yes heat, thank you.

Yeah, I guess we have.

We got uv A u v B rays coming through for sure, definitely getting some burns.

I bet there's a bit of uh, I don't know, stity heat.

Well, I mean, Josh, you deal with with home building and things.

They have these fake skylights, right, like lights that look like skylights, yes, I mean standards, yes, what kind of what kind of I don't know rays?

As Shamani was saying, is that I mean, is that are those fluorescent?

Are they led?

Like?

What are those typically you're I mean souse.

You can get sunburned from any sort of light, right.

Yeah, So I mean if if if it's a true like digital or electronic skylight that is supposed to mimic actual out outdoor lighting, then it's just really it's it's almost like a display or you know, you can do a natural light bulb or something A lot of times with skylights too, if they'll like come up and if it's like a it's like a a maze of mirrors.

That eventually go outside, grabbed the lot and then you know, the mirrors project it down through the skylight itself.

Huh.

It sounds expensive.

Yeah, don't recommend if anyone builds a house, I do not recommend skylights, say leak like you said, don't do that, it's not worth it.

But yeah, anyway, I think that I think that they can magically give sun tans and burns if necessary.

Yeah, but I think the wizards could also not do that if they want, Like it could just be a projection of a lot.

Yeah, sure, well, and couldn't they also not have small offices because I think it's it's Arthur's like, oh we've got this, or I think maybe the narrator Harry is noting.

That's a really small office.

There's barely there's just the two desks in there, and there's piles of junk.

They have undetectable extension terms and they can make things bigger on the inside.

Yeah, but then how why does anybody.

Have a small office?

How would you differentiate the haves from the have nots?

Like, how how would you display your power?

Yeah?

Everyone had this beautiful light filled sun tanning office, you know, which is like beautifully decorated and everyone was treated equally like it would be lovely.

But then how would you know, like who's the minister and who's the misuse of Muggle artifacts?

You know?

I mean, yes, logically that's correct.

Logically you are correct.

But couldn't Arthur and Perkins just like judge it up themselves.

One would?

Maybe they can't.

Maybe there's a block on it.

I don't know, yeah, I mean there's We know that they could definitely block it, because if not, they wouldn't have had hurricanes for two months in their windows, you know, So like there is some type of block that's happened on for magical maintenance and then you know, but.

That's just in the windows.

Well, and can't they I mean I feel like they should be able to extend it in some way or at least get themselves some more space by clearing out these files.

Because we see earlier that Bill vanishes their maps and whatever they're looking at at the Order movie.

Why can't they just vanish the files and then reappear them when they need them.

That would give them a lot more space.

I mean, when we talked about that, we did contemplate where that goes.

Maybe that.

You know, maybe that follows Bill around all day and that's like a magical weight on his shoulders.

And to have to vanish those boxes of files and carry them around magically all the time, maybe it gets heavy.

Yeah, but if vanished objects go into.

Nothingness, Yes, where did vanish?

Let's go into non being, which is to say everything, yes, yes, yes.

So we have our floating file particles hanging out and then just recall them.

They should make another level of the ministry that's just for filing, and you can vanish all of your stuff to filing.

Ooh, and then look, if it were me, if I was.

Missed, it's level eleven.

Yeah, we just need one more.

If it were me, and if I was mister Weasley, I would just swap offices with the broom closet because the broom closet is bigger than their office.

So I would just be like, Okay, cool, this is a new broom closet and I'm taking this slightly larger office.

That's what I would do.

That's that's my solution.

Oh yeah, there's there's a lot of a lot of questions here, like covering the window situation, like are they only certain people allowed to make windows, Like why can't they make their own window?

And they because they say they had to ask for it for ages before they got one.

I have a lot of questions about the limits on magic inside the ministry, because like, these are full grown wizards in theory, they should be able to do whatever they want within reason.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, speaking as somebody who works in a facilities department, a lot of requests are denied because it's expensive and we just don't have time to get it done.

But this is a wizarding world, and why can't Arthur and Perkins just give themselves a window?

I don't know.

Maybe it's really expensive to put the windows into the infrastructure of a building with no stairs.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I couldn't honestly say we will never know.

No, Unfortunately, you are correct, we will never know.

That's okay.

We have thousand other burning questions, like who in the world would make a toilet regurgitate and listen, listen, this is going to be a timely reference because maybe none of you will get this, probably not, but somebody out there listening to this at some point will get this.

The series finale of the Age of the Sex and the City spinoff, and just like that just ended, and there was a regurgitating toilet in the episode, and I was like, why am I looking at somebody's poop and a toilet in the series finale of a TV show?

And now here I am talking about a regurgitating toilet on this podcast.

It's like, why is there so much poop in my life lately?

I don't know, but it was really dumb then, and I think it's kind of dumb here.

It's it's that guy for the plot will Oh yeah, Willie, oh, Willy WILLI were.

Shims, yep, that's him.

I passed for the day.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I just I know that I would be like really super pissed off if I encountered this, because regurgitating it makes it sound like it's not like the regular where your toilet backs up situation, Like it feels like it's exploding.

How it is it's not flow and it's flying.

How incredibly pissed off?

I would be like, Wow, no.

Yeah, now I'm just pissed off, as Harry is whenever he finds out that his hearing has been moved to right now.

I know.

So, yeah, I smooth, I just did.

I did some numbers, and so the hearing has been moved to eight a m.

And Perkins says, the memo arrived ten minutes go.

And mister Weasley looks at his watch and he goes, oh, we were meant to be there five minutes ago.

So that means the memo was received at seven fifty five am, telling them that the hearing was now at eight am.

Is that enough time for them to get from mister Weasley's office down to the courtrooms.

Like, I think that's even achievable.

No, I doubt, especially not with how many times the elevator stops.

Now, Now, I think that that is just the game of we told you before, we sent it before the hearing.

You know, and they did the bare minimum to inform them.

Well, and I get the other piece of it too, is that they don't expect they don't expect them to show up at all.

Yeah, right, So like Arthur was never meant to get the message.

M m hmm.

So it doesn't really matter as long as they send it before eight, It doesn't matter how much time it takes to get down there, because I don't think Arthur was never meant to, or at least maybe Harry wasn't never meant to get it?

Who was the memo.

Would because yeah, Perkins says this, this memo came for you.

Yeah.

Okay, so they're like they're covering their butts by sending it, but there's no real intention to make sure they actually get it save it.

No, it's a game.

It's the game.

I mean.

But but your question is, is it fit?

Would you be physically possible if they weren't playing a game to get down there in five minutes?

I mean, yes, if.

If you could operate within the building, if.

Uh yeah, yeah, hmhmm yeah.

I mean, but aside from the obvious reasons of cruelty and humiliation, could moving the hearing be a planted idea or a suggestion from Lord Foldemore and hear me out.

I'm just wondering if it's in order to give some of his team a chance to like walk around the dungeons and play a fool about being lost while they're actually there trying to get info about the prophecy, because why I'm just trying to think of, like, why else would you need to be down in that area if you didn't work there, and so if some of these people, some of his moles, are on this committee, you know, I'm thinking umbrage.

Although yes, we know she doesn't do work directly work for Lord Foldemore.

I'm just thinking it's a reason and an excuse to be down there.

Obviously, I think the answer is no, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't bring it up.

So when I read this question, my initial thought was like, who who are we talking about?

So you're thinking that he has plants like within the actual.

Yeah, I'm sure he does.

Because we know like when they come out, Malfoy is there.

But if he was the one looking for information on the prophecy, they would need to be up a level at the Department of Mysteries, would they not.

So being down by the Dungeons isn't really beneficial.

Unless Malfoy was planted there to be able to talk to one of the inside contacts on their way out of the hearing, It's possible.

So it's boldy thinking they're going to talk about the prophecy at the hearing or somebody's going to mention.

It, or I mean, I'm not even convinced that Voltimore knows about this, Like, like I said, like, I think it's impossible, but I'm just trying to figure out again, like are there other motivations aside from the cruelty and the humiliation of the moment Because Umbradge is involved, Umbridge is here, so I feel like there has to be an ulterior motive.

I don't think it's a planted idea, but I think it could have been something that was taken advantage of by Boldy because they knit the lift needs to stop at the Department of Mysteries, so that is a plausible reason for if there were any plants to be on that level.

You know, the lift stops there and then oh I took the wrong turn looking for the staircase or you know, it's like plausible deniability there.

So it could have been I don't know.

I don't think it was a plant, but it could have been.

Well and Bode shows up, yeah, right, like.

Like we happened into he happens to be there.

Well, no, he doesn't happen.

He happens to be there because he works in the department.

Well yeah, yeah, like but we know that later they they bewitchammed to try to go to get the prophecy.

Because that when Malfoy, which is him, is.

That when that that is possible, that is very possible, only only because it's it's very plausible that here is where Malfoy puts imperious curse on Bode is the only I guess, real credibility that I can think of for uh the Lord Voldemort kind of plant.

But I was I was thinking more because Arthur says that these courtrooms haven't been used in years.

I think that this is gamesmanship from Umbradge and Fudge of putting the entire Wisdom gamont in these courtrooms that were used specifically for death eaters, to go ahead and put them put the Wisden gamont On like on edge at least, or at least put them in a mindset of criminals.

I got you.

So I think it's psychological.

I think it's psychological, but not even not even a power move toward Harry.

I think it's a psychological move to try to go to get them on, to go ahead and get them in the in a negative headspace toward someone on trial in these courtrooms.

And I guess that's for them, like they've all been called here.

And then this kid shows up late.

That's they don't know that Harry wasn't probably notified of that.

So they're just called here for this trial.

They're waiting, They've gotten up early in the morning to be here, and then this kid shows up late like that.

It's definitely on the side of Fudge in the ministry.

Yeah, so it's all just psychological warfare basically.

Yeah.

Now, I mean, bod does throw a wrench into that because we don't we do not know when he got cursed.

I don't think that we know when he got cursed.

And this is the only time that we ever see Lucius in the vicinity of Bode.

But Lucius may not have even put boat under the imperious curse.

I cannot.

I mean I bet he did.

He would be the most logical person because I think he would spend.

Oh yeah, the lexicon actually says everyone, Lucius is the one who did it.

Lucius is the one who did it.

He would have the most opportunity.

Mhm yeah.

Mmmm.

Well we all know what happens next as Harry goes into the room, and to listen to our discussion on that, just go back a couple episodes.

It is Malfoy that puts the imperious course on bod Yeah.

Yeah, so.

This is the fun this Yeah, that was a that's there's a good chapter.

Lots of incredible world building, lots of you know, if you have listened to Full Circle, I'm sorry, I just have to do it, you will know that Order the Phoenix is the book that we really struggled with coming up with circles.

But some of them are very strong and very clear.

Like Bode being here is a big one.

Us being down in the you know, near the Department of Mysteries is a big one, you know, sort of the bigger themes really show up a lot later.

A lot of the smaller stuff in this book not so much, not so much.

But I think that's a direct I think that's in direct correlation to Ordered could have used more editing, and I think that if it got more editing, the circles would have been more prevalent.

Yeah.

Sure, I think that there's so much in there it's hard to it's hard to fit it, you know what I mean.

I think there's a there are a lot of like setups in this chapter, and like I've kind of listed a few things that a lot of things are just throwaway comments, you know, like the Rufus scrimmer or you know, finding out where the visitor's entrance for the Ministry of Magic is.

Like we don't know now that that's going to be important, you know, but it is important to know.

Like Harry needs to know what phone number to put into that dial because otherwise how they're going to get to the Ministry of Magic, they would he would not have been able to do that, you know, he needs to know where it is.

There's the Sint Mungo's name drop in there, which is just like a one liner that it's where the donations go from the Fountain of Magical Brethren, you know, So like that's something that you just glaze over, but then it gets brought up later in the book.

So like there's so many things that the quibble is mentioned as well, you know, and the regurgitating toilets, which we've spoken about at length that you know, it turns out, you know, he he got off for whatever reason.

So there's all these little tiny details that are sprinkled into this chapter that right now, like when you're reading it for the first time, you don't realize you don't know that it's going to be important, you know.

And I guess there's probably like a million other little details in this chapter that don't come up again, but these are I guess they're kind of like little easter eggs for when you're rereading it or when you are reading through and then you're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, I saw this then or for whatever reason.

Yeah, I think this chapter is just so full of lots of little little tiny details like that, like blink and you'll miss them, but yeah, become important.

Yeah, the Ring chapter is for this.

So the way that Rowan and I did it was the chapter six and seven went together.

So the noble and most ancient ancient House are black.

Plus the Ministry of Magic goes with chapter thirty two and thirty three, which is out of the Fire and Fight and Flate.

So yeah, as you mentioned, a lot of those things do go hand in hand just because of the Ring camp of it all.

I feel like, if I remember correctly, and I typically do, when it comes to full circle, at least the outer edges, the outer chapters fit much better than the middle ones, so that makes sense.

But well, I think this is the place to leave it for today.

Friends, Tracy, thank you so much for coming back to join us again.

It was awesome to have you.

Thank you.

It's been very much, very fun morning for me, so thank you so much for having me.

Good.

Can our listeners find you anywhere online?

Are you interested in sharing?

I mean, nothing really Harry Potter related on the gotcha?

But I do have that.

I have a candle business I only sell with in Australia.

It's called Leaf Candle Coat.

I upcycle tin cans into really cute little candles.

So that's cool.

Cool, you know, give me a foo, give me a shout out.

But yeah, sorry, nothing Harry related.

That's okay, it doesn't have to be.

So that is Leaf candle coo on all the things.

Yeah, good, good on you for upcycling perhaps awesome.

Well, the next time we gather, we will be discussing chapter thirty of Half but Prince the White Tomb.

And if you would like to support us, you can follow us on pretty much any social media outlet at Alokhimora MN or on Facebook at Open the Dumbledore and please remember to subscribe, save and share this episode with your friends.

And this has been episode sixty eight of the final one hundred I'm Josh.

I'm Shamini, and I'm Kap.

Thank you for listening to Episode four hundred and sixty eight of Alohimra Level twelve, incorporating the is it a Live Council, Department of over Analysis, the Mandrake Liberation for Offices in the Department for Regulation of Opening the Dumbledore.

M Alohamorra is produced by Tracy Dunstan.

This episode was edited by Catherine Lewis.

Alohamra was co created by Noah Freed and Kat Miller, and is brought to you by.

A p W B d LLC.

Like, what department is this?

He's an or cops.

Oh, that's right, he has an ORR.

Wow.

That was a really wow.

Please cut that out.

Whoever's that was really embarrassing.

These books are called Harry Potter, the series about a boy wizard.

Oh my gosh, it's just hiking from start to find you'll love it.

Listen, babe, we all have brain farts.

It's okay.

Wow