Welcome to Redesigning Life.

I'm your host, sabrina Soto, and this is the space where we have honest conversations about personal growth, mindset shifts and creating a life that feels truly aligned.

In each episode, I'll talk to experts in their fields who share their insights to help you step into your higher self.

Let's redesign your life from the inside out.

Frances, thank you for joining me on Redesigning Life.

I am so excited for this conversation.

We have so many friends in common.

Frances is a New York Times bestselling author so fancy.

You're also a registered dietitian, nutritionist, and you just had your fourth child at 50.

Nutritionist, and you just had your fourth child at 50.

So I have that's true.

Yeah, this is all true and I have so many questions for you and so many things to discuss, but I just wanted to first welcome you to Redesigning Life and thank you for your time today.

Oh, thanks, Sabrina.

It is really a thrill to be here and a thrill to just chat with you in person a thrill to be here and a thrill to just chat with you in person.

I obviously have to start with.

The largest thing that I couldn't believe is that you decided to have your fourth child at the age of 50, which bravo to you.

I was considered a geriatric mother because I had Olivia at 38 years old, which everyone thought was old, and you decided to have your fourth at 50.

So first question is what made you decide to go that route?

Because I think a lot of people, when they get to be our age, think you know, I'm done with the strollers and the car seats and all of those things, and you were like, no, I'm going to start all over again.

So tell me about that journey.

Oh yeah, I mean, you talk about redesigning your life.

I decided to just blow up my life and just, yeah, bring the chaos back in again.

So I had my first child at 35.

And then I had another at 38, like you.

And then I had another baby at 40 and I was thinking, oh, okay, like I could just keep going, but decided we were living in Brooklyn at the time and you know, space is a huge constraint, cost is a huge constraint.

We were good, you know, that was it.

But then, at about 42, I really thought you know what, I would love to have another baby.

But then it was not possible and I ended up having three miscarriages.

And you know, I know it's super common, I know that a lot of women go through it, but I hadn't experienced it and I hadn't really been close with somebody who had, or at least who had talked about it openly with me, and I found the whole thing to be just devastating but didn't really want to show that sadness.

Why is that?

I think a lot of people listening probably may have either experienced that themselves, or maybe know someone who has I have, unfortunately, experienced that themselves or maybe know someone who has I have, unfortunately.

So why is there this secret or this fear of sharing such a huge experience that I think a lot of women go through?

What was it for you?

I think at the time it was so painful I mean I couldn't even get on the phone and tell my sister.

I just didn't want to be sort of endlessly breaking down about it, which probably was not the right way to go.

You know, I probably should have shared it at the moment, but it was so hugely painful.

I felt also responsible.

Not the first time, you know that.

Just I was shocked the first time it happened because I had never had one before.

I'd had an easy time getting pregnant and no issues.

But by the third time I started to feel like why are you doing this to yourself, why are you putting yourself in this position?

And really a lot of blame.

So I kind of quashed the idea of having a fourth child and thought you know what, it's just out of reach.

I'm just too old at this point.

I was 44 when that last miscarriage happened and I thought, frances, you've got to focus on the kids you have and you know doing a great job for them and you know you're very blessed, so why don't you just enjoy that?

And then the pandemic happened and I thought, you know what?

This is really probably a good thing that you didn't have a fourth child.

Look at all these people with all they're having to do just to have a baby safely in the hospital.

But then I'm telling you once you have that I think this might be true for all women once you have that desire to have a baby, there really is no getting around it.

You can do other things.

You can get a puppy that can help a little bit.

We did get a dog Turns out he's my husband's dog, not really so much my dog out, he's my husband's dog, not really so much my dog.

So that feeling was still there, but honestly I did not think it was within reach, sabrina, because I didn't see how it was possible.

And then I read a story in the New Yorker about this writer who found his wife late in life.

They got married and at 50, they were having a baby using an egg donor a donor egg.

And I really didn't know about this.

I mean, I knew that people did donate their eggs, but I just didn't, really I don't know.

I didn't connect the dots for me.

And so then I found, you know, a fertility specialist still and went into that appointment still feeling like I don't know that this is for me.

I don't know what she'll say.

She might say the door has already closed, but I just want to know.

I want to know if it's still a possibility.

And at that point were you thinking, did you even think about getting a surrogate, or you?

I mean, everything was sort of new to you, because these are like new possibilities.

Right, yeah, okay.

So I didn't really consider getting a surrogate because I felt like that cost was going to be out of our reach, and I also didn't think about or I had ruled out adoption even though my husband's because I know that I have a lot of anxiety already, and knowing that you might get a call at some point about a baby someday, and you don't know when that might be that didn't feel like the right thing for me to do.

So I wanted to know if my body was healthy enough to carry a baby, and it turned out.

When we had that appointment, the doctor said yeah, you're in great health.

The womb your uterus can actually work for a really long time.

It's just the eggs it comes down to.

You know, when you get to be in your early 40s for some women it's even earlier than that the egg quality just drops, so much so that even if they go in and harvest your eggs, there's really nothing viable to work with.

But before you did the egg donor, did you try to do IVF?

No, we had not, because after those three miscarriages they don't usually really find out what happened.

The assumption is that the egg quality is not good and that is why that embryo did not grow past eight weeks or seven weeks, and how was carrying at that age?

I mean, I feel like you went through a lot of steps to create this for yourself and for your family, so it's not something that just happened overnight.

You had to like, really plan.

So how was?

Did you second guess yourself during this time?

Because it is.

It's a huge undertaking.

All the time I second guess myself all the time.

But I really went through this kind of mental process of like can you see the end result?

If you can see the end result and if that end result makes you light up and makes you happy, then this is all going to be worth it.

All the medications, all the shots in the butt, all the doctor's appointments, all the wondering and waiting and worrying and all of that.

If that you know that mind's eye, you know destination makes you thrilled, then this is going to be worth it.

And so how was it for you?

going to be worth it.

And so how was it for you?

It was mostly great.

I was able to exercise the whole time throughout my pregnancy.

I felt pretty darn good.

I did have some crazy, crazy leg cramps that happened to me, which didn't happen in my other pregnancies.

You do have to take baby aspirin and you do have to monitor your blood pressure if you are my age, if you were my age or you know late 40s, early 50s but I felt pretty confident, I think, especially as a dietitian, and I have written a book on pregnancy nutrition.

So I felt like I was doing everything in my power that I could to have a healthy pregnancy.

I mean, yeah, right, so your whole career has been.

The foundation is what you eat really affects your health.

So what did you notice differently in the way that being pregnant at 50 as opposed to being pregnant in your 30s- Well, certainly.

I mean, I'm lucky that I can work for myself now and work from home, as opposed to, you know, my first two pregnancies Manhattan work long hours, not always eat appropriately, when I was supposed to shoveling food at my desk, that kind of thing.

So I took much better care of myself.

I was really really just kind of textbook eating, what I was supposed to, making sure I was getting tons of protein and fruits and vegetables, lots of antioxidant-rich foods, hydration.

I was able to super focus on and also rest.

And the other thing that helped was that I didn't have a toddler that I had to take care of like I did those other times when I was younger.

So I could, you know, if I needed to shut it down at nine o'clock at night and say, night guys.

I could do that.

How?

What has the feedback been for you?

I'm sure it's been all across the board.

What have you noticed?

The you know the reaction's been from not only your family, but from followers and in the public.

So, sabrina, I was really nervous to tell people.

I thought that I might get some very, very negative feedback You're too old, why are you doing this?

Don't you know kind of what position you're putting yourself and this child in in terms of you know what if you, what if you kick the bucket at 60?

But I didn't get any of that and I'm sure people may have had thoughts along those lines, but I really got a lot of good for you.

Wow, I would love to do that, or I would have loved to have done that if I had known that I could do that.

Even my high-risk OBGYN she told me.

She said really good for you because she had had three kids and wanted more.

And then life got in the way and she didn't do it.

So I felt very supported by her, by my family, by my friends.

You know I did get a lot of wow.

That wouldn't be the choice that I would make, but I'm happy for you.

Right, which is, by the way, fine.

I mean, it's totally fine.

I think there's a million choices that my friends make that I wouldn't necessarily make, but I don't, you know, it's neither good nor bad, it's just a different choice, but I do I can.

The reason why I asked that question is because I did have a friend who had a baby later in life and I remember a lot of negative feedback of being called selfish and things like that, and I couldn't.

I couldn't believe what she was going through because she wasn't asking anyone for help.

It wasn't like she was asking these people can you help me with my baby?

But I think a lot of people and it's not just about having kids when you're older, whatever the case may be, people love to have an opinion.

So I was just curious, but I love to hear that everyone in your community was supportive.

Absolutely.

And you know I would say locally.

You know my neighbors had a shower for me and uh, they, you know they were all like, hey, you know we'll go, we'll go on walks with you.

This baby will be the community baby and you know we're here to support you and help take care of you.

So I feel really lucky because, honestly, I was expecting to hear some negative comments and, who knows, maybe it's going on and it's just you know, not, not your problem, and I'm not thinking about it.

Yeah, I am not thinking about it at all, yeah, I um, when Nate and I got engaged, a lot of people were asking about children and if he's six years younger than I am.

So people were asking are you guys going to have kids?

And I, I mean, I love my life with Olivia, but I just always even said I'm too old.

And now I realize that's not true and I shouldn't even say you know, react or even answer questions about that saying the same thing, because it does sort of put us as women in a box and I think a lot of we're capable of a lot more than we give ourselves credit for, and obviously you have proven that.

Well, you're so right and I think I had gotten to a point before I pursued having a baby with a donor egg where I was angry.

I was angry about Robert De Niro, I was angry about how George Clooney, how all of these men, not just the famous men, but in real life too, lots of older men into their 70s, 80s, are able to have babies and no one really says a thing.

That's true.

Nope, they don't say a thing.

They don't.

I mean, if a man at 50, that's pretty normal these days that's no one blinks, you're absolutely right.

If a man had a baby at 50, no one, no one would say one like, one comment.

Yet a woman, and it's all of a sudden a million negative comments or judgments, or fill in the blank, exactly.

And you know what I did.

I was a little obsessed for a while with, you know, actresses and other celebrities who had had, who had become moms later in life, whether that was through IVF or adoption or surrogates and I thought, you know what?

There's really no reason.

There's really no reason.

You are your own limitation, right.

If you think you can't do something, then you can't.

But honestly, that sort of opened my eyes.

Well, yeah, I mean, I chose to physically carry a baby at 50, but for other people, maybe they would decide to adopt.

I just think that we should really reconsider our options as we age, because aging is very different now and you can start a whole new career, you could go back to school, you could get married, you could do whatever you want to do.

I think we should really open up the possibilities instead of closing them off.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people who are listening right now maybe they are in their 40s, maybe early 50s, who want to maybe not necessarily have a child, but maybe want to reinvent themselves in some way, whether it's a new career, like you just mentioned, or a new relationship or moving and I think that it becomes scary at our age because we are dealing with so much hormonal issues and second guessing and just physical changes.

So I love that you have inspired people to not limit themselves in any way and I think that's really brave of you.

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

And that didn't come overnight.

That took a lot of soul searching and a lot of conversations with my husband, who was extremely supportive of this and I mean he would have been fine with another dachshund, uh, but um, you know, he, he was supportive of the choice and you know, I think we're, we're we're both just thrilled that we were able to welcome Romy into our lives back in December.

And you know, that was also not, that was not smooth, and I mean it was smooth, smooth, smooth until the very end.

Sabrina and I remember you know, texting or sending Shab an email and saying you know, I just found out that our baby is going to have to have surgery as soon as she's born.

Our baby is going to have to have surgery as soon as she's born.

I was told by our OBGYN at 34 weeks that the baby had a congenital diaphragmatic hernia, which meant that there was a hole in the diaphragm that was going to need to be surgically fixed.

Wow, that's scary.

Be surgically fixed?

Wow, that's scary.

It was scary, it was scary.

And then, yes, I did do a lot of second guessing then, but it was completely.

You know, it was a random thing, it wasn't because I did IVF, it wasn't because I used a donor, it wasn't because of my age, it was just.

You know, these things happen and she is, knock wood, a very healthy baby now and the surgery was super successful, and all of that.

Isn't it so sad that when something happens during pregnancy or after giving birth, and if there's any complications, that we blame ourselves?

Oh, yeah, always, yeah, absolutely, and I think that experience.

Had that happened to me earlier in life, when I was younger, I think I would have really freaked out a lot more and I was just able to, once I had all the information and understood what we were going to be dealing with, I was able to really kind of handle it in a very, very calm way.

And, of course, you know, we went to Columbia and they had an amazing surgeon and we did all the things.

But I think that you do gain a lot of wisdom and you've already you know, hopefully by 50, you've already learned some coping mechanisms, healthy coping mechanisms to deal with the stuff in life that we need to deal with, and have built up some resilience.

So I think that that's just another huge thing, another lesson learned.

I was going to ask you about that because I can imagine that, being a mother in this decade, you're just a lot more calm.

Yeah, would you say, that's true.

Yeah, you need to be, and also I have teenagers now, so how are they?

Yeah, how?

How do they like, do they love having a baby in the house?

They do now.

They do now.

They were not so sure about it.

Uh, the 10 year old was also not so sure about it.

My 13 year old son kept saying we too old and now he is so smitten with his little sister.

So I think you know it was.

Yeah, if you have other kids already, you're not just signing yourself up for this, you're signing up the whole family to welcome a new child and they're going to have opinions.

You know it's not like when they're two and they don't really know what's going on in the world.

They definitely had opinions.

Okay.

So let me shift gears a little bit.

Because you're in your 50s, I already have my hands full dealing with my career, a nine-year-old in soccer, and my perimenopause symptoms.

So I honestly, frances, could not imagine having a baby in the house because I feel like I'm just so many changes are happening in my body.

So how, given that you, this is your nutrition, is your base, how have you um helped to mitigate symptoms of your body changing with the foods and nutrition and supplements?

What do you recommend?

Because I feel like I'm following so many different accounts on social media that I'm so exhausted by protein.

No protein, fiber.

Forget about protein.

You only care about fiber, de dehydration, vitamin D you should take wild yam, take progesterone Like I'm, like exhausted.

So I mean there's a whole industry.

Yes, but can you help just simplify what women should be doing?

I was on the phone with my sister this morning and she was talking about inflammation and I just feel like there's so much information yet not enough help out there.

So can you help to simplify all of the noise out there when it comes to perimenopause and menopause symptoms?

Yes, absolutely so.

Yes, before I got pregnant with Romy, I was also experiencing perimenopause, and rage was my number one symptom.

It was really, really awful and you know the lack of sleep and just you know all the.

There's like, I think, 50 symptoms at least of perimenopause and obviously we don't all experience all of those.

But there are so many things, from changes in skin to changes in, you know, sexual health and everything right, and luckily we're not experiencing all of those at the same time.

What I did find was very helpful was ashwagandha, which is an adaptogenic herb.

That really did help with my rage, and I know that it's not for everyone, but I found I used it.

I had it a liquid form and I would just add a couple of drops to water every day and that really really did help with mood.

You have to prioritize sleep.

There's just no way that you can do what you did in your 20s or your 30s and just sort of try to get by with extra caffeine or extra snacks or extra chocolate.

It just does not work, and part of prioritizing sleep means also cutting caffeine off by early afternoon.

I have ashwagandha in my coffee now as I'm talking to you.

Well, there you go.

Okay, so you're already.

Yeah, so for me my cutoff is two o'clock.

I cannot have caffeine after that.

Also alcohol, oh my gosh.

Yeah, oh my gosh.

Yeah, I it's.

It's like rest in peace wine, because I used to love to drink.

I mean, I I've used some.

Unfortunately, I've used alcohol sometimes to self-medicate in my life.

But even just outside of, like the stress of just having a glass of wine that I love, a glass of red wine, I can't.

It's impossible to enjoy anymore.

Yeah, I, I totally hear you and I just, yeah, you're sad about it for a while, Um, but then you know I realized, hey, athletic brewing makes a really good IPA that tastes like the real thing so good.

Golden ale is so delicious in the yellow pan.

Yes, yeah, it's so good and for some people maybe they drink a kombucha instead or maybe they have a spin drift or they have something that feels celebratory and fun at the end of the day, and it's also not absolute.

I mean, I went on a press trip this week and I had a glass of wine.

I had one glass, kind of on the smaller side, and I found that it didn't disrupt my sleep, but that's really kind of it's going to be very few and far between.

Maybe in a wedding I'll have some champagne, and it's just how it has to be, because I really feel like you have to put in a lot of self-care and really kind of regiment yourself, which sounds really not fun, but it's so helpful.

It is because I feel like, of course you go to a wedding or whatever.

If I do have a glass, I just know that my sleep is not going to be as restful as, obviously, when I don't, and sometimes I'm just like it's not even worth it.

I love sleep.

I mean, I love sleep more than probably the average person, and I just have to make choices now that are different and taking my supplements and making sure that I get movement in my day, but I still am getting night sweats and you know I just have to.

I feel like everyone has to make choices to help lessen all of the symptoms that we unfortunately have to go through.

Yeah, absolutely, and I think the movement is a huge, huge part of it.

So, whether you have been an exerciser and you already have a routine, that's great you might have to alter that routine because maybe you can't run as much, because maybe now your knees are giving you pain, so maybe you have to do less of that and carve out more time so that you can walk instead.

But obviously you might need to walk for 60 minutes instead of running for 30 minutes to get the same kind of benefit.

And then that's where the protein comes into.

I think that we've all gone a little bit overboard in the protein conversation.

I think that people are now starting to stress out during their day like, oh my gosh, I haven't reached 100 grams out during their day Like, oh my gosh, I haven't reached 100 grams.

Last night, olivia, she loves to cook, so she made me sauteed mushrooms and I was eating it on rice and I'm enjoying the meal and I'm like I have to eat protein.

There's no protein on this.

I have to eat all this protein and it's like this elf on my shoulder constantly the protein elf.

So what is the calculation Like?

If somebody weighs 100 pounds, how many grams of protein should they be eating?

Okay, so I do this by kilogram.

So you take your weight in pounds, you divide it by 2.2 to get kilograms.

Divide it by 2.2 to get kilograms.

So in a range of 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram.

So if a person is 150 pounds, that's going to be between, say, 68 to 80 grams of protein a day.

Now if you are even more so, that'd be sort of actually converting protein into muscle.

So the other thing is you can't have it all at once.

You can't sit down to dinner and have 80 grams of protein and have it actually do something for you.

You have to spread it out throughout the day.

You have to spread it out throughout the day.

You have to spread it out throughout the day.

What do you think about?

Again.

Sorry, go ahead.

It just takes some planning.

It takes planning.

What do you think about creatine?

Creatine is excellent.

You know we used to think about creatine as like a bodybuilding supplement only and you know there are several studies that show that it helps the average person build and maintain muscle.

I personally am not taking it right now because I'm still breastfeeding, but I do plan to incorporate that and I have a good friend who's also a dietician who has been using it for a while and sees great results.

So there used to also be some issues with people getting sort of bloated from it.

But I think that they've worked on kind of the quality of the supplements.

But always when you take any kind of supplement, I don't care what it is multivitamin, creatine, collagen make sure that you are using something that is third-party tested.

So that should be right on the bottle.

It should say third-party tested by XYZ.

There are different groups that do the testing, but you want to make sure that you're getting a supplement that's basically you know doesn't have any heavy metals in it and that you're actually getting what it says on the bottle.

Okay, One last question about like a hot topic, since you're a health expert All of the noise about seed oils.

Tell me, is it as bad as everyone's saying?

Because I've heard that.

You heard that everyone's blowing it out of proportion.

What is your take on seed oils?

Need to know so number one.

I would say that my oil of choice is always going to be extra virgin olive oil.

It has the highest level of antioxidants.

We know because it's been part of the Mediterranean diet for centuries.

We know that it has benefits.

It's been shown in many studies to have benefits.

Seed oils I think the concern is overblown, absolutely.

I don't think it's a problem to have a packaged cookie or cracker that includes seed oils in it.

I would just say that shouldn't be the crux of your diet.

Right, that could be a once in a while thing, right, right, and many, many packaged foods do contain seed oils.

But again, we're supposed to be focusing more on whole foods fruits, veggies, proteins, nuts and seeds.

Those are supposed to be in our diet and that's like 80%.

So if you're including some snacks, which I think we all kind of need to do because we all live very busy lives, we're on the go, we're using bars sometimes because we're dropping our kid off someplace at eight in the morning and then we need to go and have another appointment so I think there's no way, unless you live on a farm, to really not eat processed foods that are processed to some degree.

It's just trying to kind of minimize that and not rely on it so heavily.

So no, I don't think they're as bad as some influencers would lead you to believe and also just to call out.

You should be getting not just you, people should be getting their health information from real health professionals, including registered dietitians and doctors, and not from influencers who don't necessarily know how to read a scientific study.

It's so true, and I think you know there's so many quote-unquote experts on social media Instagram, tiktok that they are so convincing that you just take their word as like they're experts and they're not.

They're just, you know, some 20 year old spewing whatever the hell their, you know, whatever their take on something is and it's.

But it's hard because you, you know, you do hear so much.

So that's why I wanted to ask you, because I feel like maybe it's just my feed, but it's seed oil, protein, creatine, weightlifting.

I'm just exhausted.

I'm exhausted.

Yeah, I do think that you have to kind of tune out, you have to know what works for you, and I'm sure that it sounds like you're doing a lot of stuff that you feel like is working for you, like cutting out the booze and cutting down on caffeine and getting in that daily movement.

So I think it's a lot of people really need to sort of go within and trust themselves a little bit more.

You know, certainly look to the experts, but you get bombarded and it can get very.

You can feel like you're getting brainwashed on social media for sure, a hundred percent.

I had to take a break from doing everything, but it's almost now.

I feel like I am trying everything and my mom actually makes fun of me.

She's like how do you even know what's working?

You do everything and I'm like I know.

So I just started on peptide therapy.

I'm also taking a crazy amount of supplements.

I'm drinking this skin cherry concoction and I told her I'm like I don't even care, I just want to feel better.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

And I have to tell you that it was so worth getting pregnant, not just to have a baby, but also to escape the perimenopausal symptoms that I was having.

I was like this feels great.

Oh my gosh Love being pregnant Feels great and honestly, I'm sure I'm still not.

I'm still riding the high of breastfeeding at this point.

At some point I will crash and I will be, you know, at the same level that I was before.

And I don't know, I might, I might be in menopause when I'm done breastfeeding.

I don't know where I will be.

On the second your body's on pause.

Yeah, yeah, so I'm getting a little break, but I think it's.

I'm so happy that that we're having the conversation about perimenopause and all of these symptoms and what to do, and that it's now.

It's no longer taboo, because women have suffered in relative silence for such a long time and I mean, look, it's just.

That's ridiculous, because 50% of the population goes through this and we need to have options and we need to have partners who understand what it is that we're going through.

Yeah, I was really frustrated.

A few months ago.

I went and got my blood test done and then I got a Dutch test done and they basically said the complete opposite.

One said my testosterone was fine.

The other one said it was low.

And I went to a nutritionist, a naturopathic, and he said it's about your symptoms, because your body fluctuates at all times.

Yes, it's great to have these levels, but pay attention to the symptoms, and that's what I want to treat, rather than what's on this piece of paper.

And I think do you find that to be true as well?

Absolutely, because they can test your hormone levels.

But again, they will tell you that unless they drop beyond a certain threshold, you know the estrogen really is what they're looking at.

You know if that goes they have.

You know there are certain ranges that tell them okay, now you are actually, you know, reaching menopause.

But they can fluctuate and you know, just like somebody could have, could not get their period for six months, but then it comes back, right, you know.

And then sometimes they're getting it for like 20 days a month, right month, and all kinds of different things.

So, yeah, it really is about the symptoms and I think it's about trying to go back to these basic.

I know that people want to try everything to see what is going to work, but your mom is right, you won't know what exactly is working for you unless you try things kind of one at a time.

Right For about 30 days Right 30 days should give you a sense of whether something's working for you.

Thank you so much for your time and congratulations.

I hope I get to see you soon.

I love babies so much.

I hope to see you soon.

So I could I love baby so much.

Um, I hope to see you soon, I hope.

I mean.

I cannot believe we've known each other for so many years and we've only met virtually.

So I hope to change that in the next year or so.

Yes, that would be amazing, sabrina, and, um yeah, thank you, I'm so thrilled for you.

I mean, you have so much going on with your show and getting married and Olivia and so many wonderful things.

Thank you and congrats on all of your success.

Thank you so much, and for anyone listening, I will have Frances' information on her Instagram, her website and all of her books are on her website.

You can get in touch with her there as well, and I can attest that she reads her DMs because I just DMed her before.

So if you have questions for her, you could DM her as well.

Awesome.

Thanks so much, sabrina, I really appreciate it.