This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.

Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of lifelun Cut.

I'm Brittany and I'm Tsher, and we have a very special guest.

She is a repeat offender of Life un Cut.

This will be her second episode with us, and she was a guest at two.

Of our live shows.

I don't think he should correct if I'm wrong.

I don't think we've ever had somebody frequent the podcast so many times.

No, I think we've had some people do three episodes.

You never Yeah, like a couple of people.

Have done three.

There's only like maybe three of them.

I think that.

I can think of the top of my head.

Definitely not someone who's done two episodes and two live shows.

We're obsessed with her.

Preferred during the past as Human Sunshine.

We're talking about em Carey now.

In case you have been under a rock and you've missed one of the episodes or you didn't come to our live show.

Em Carey was on our podcast.

Back in twenty twenty one, so four years ago, and in twenty thirteen, she became the girl that fell from the sky.

She was the woman that survived something that no one should survive when she was in a skydiving accident over in Switzerland, and we've spoken to her about so many things, and we do recommend if you are new to this and you haven't heard her episode, maybe stop down now.

We're going to put the link in our show notes, go back and listen to the episode that we did, and then scoot on back here to listen to this episode.

But we're talking about a few different things today.

M.

I don't want to say disappeared from social media the last couple of years, but there was a bit of a hiatus.

There was a bit of a quiet time.

A soft fade, yeah, a ghosting maybe, like a soft ghosting.

But she's zombied and she's come back, and we're here to talk about some of the reasons surrounding that because there are some pretty personal things that En was going through with I guess a pretty specific form of parental estrangement.

And we're going to talk about a few other things as well, like dating with disability.

And I'm just so excited to welcome you back into our chair today, and I say chair and studio, M, because last time you were with us, we were in my apartment.

I know, I walked in.

I was like, you guys have really upped it since last time.

Well, we're wearing pants, we're all dressed, but thank you, and you've given me a popper look very generously are.

With the budget pie.

People don't realize how professional we are.

You coming in, We've got pants on and you get a pop off Apple or Black Carrol.

What else could you want?

But yeah, thank you so much for having me back.

I truly can't believe I'm the most frequented guest.

I say, we're just obsessed with you.

And as you do know because you've been too of our live shows, and this is the ninety second episode.

We start every episode with an accidentally unfiltered, your most embarrassing story you've had to share a couple.

Do you have a new one for us?

Do you know what?

And not a day goes by where I don't live and accidentally unfiltered, and I was trying so hard to think.

I was like, Okay, let's do one that's not per related, because they're always peer related, which if anyone doesn't know why, it's because I'm incontinent from my spinal cord injuries.

So it's just a part of life.

If anyone's allowed to have a poo accidentally unfiltered, though it's you.

Yeah, but it's like they get old.

But normally, honestly, they're not even that embarrassed because it's so frequent.

But this one happened recently and it was one of the worst yet.

So to set the scene, it was a few.

Months ago and I was in South America with my some at the time somewhat recent boyfriend.

Oh, I have a boyfriend, by the way, great, we love La.

We're getting too that we love La.

But anyway, we're in South America and we're about to go and do a five day hike.

And when you're doing a hike for that long, you obviously can't carry your big suitcase that we brought.

You just have to leave it somewhere and take a little backpack with you.

Yeah.

So we were staying at this tiny little hostel and the people working couldn't speak a word of English.

I can't speak Spanish, but I somehow would Google Translate organized with them that I could pay to leave my big suitcase there for the five days.

Amazing.

Go to bed the night before and I suddenly am awoken from my slumber and say, Ohm, I God, I got to vomit.

And I go to the bathroom vomit like three times.

Really weird.

I'm not a vomitor, but felt immediately better, and I was like random but efficient.

Yeah, like hashtag South America.

Yeah yeah.

So went back to bed, all is well, and then I wake up like half an hour later.

I don't know how, but to my own voice, saying oh my god.

And my boyfriend's like, what's wrong?

What's wrong?

And I'm like, shut, I've shut the bed.

Not metaphorically, yeah, I've shut the bed.

Picture like the worst thing you can picture, like just so liquidy and just awful, and times it by times it by a thousand, what you're picturing.

It was horrific, and it was all over him, my new boyfriend.

But that was not the embarrassing part of the story.

Oh it gets better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So anyway, he's so lovely, He's like, Okay, what can we do?

You get into the shower, blah blah blah, and then, bless his soul, he says, do you think it's on the sheets?

And I said, oh, darling, you've severely underestimated what's going on here, Like, is it on the sheets is the sheets like we are we're swimming, and we're swimming.

So anyway, I get into the shower, he brings in the sheets.

I'm trying to like rinse them off and just do everything I can, but it is like it is crime scene horrific, okay, And we're cleaning up for hours.

I think it's probably three in the morning.

Our alarm goes off because we have to then get a bus a few hours to go to this hike.

And because this hostel that we're staying in is so tiny, there's no reception, there's no one we can contact, and we'd already organized to leave our bags there, so it's like, I don't know what else to do.

This town's so little.

I don't know what else we what we can do besides just leave our bags and go.

And I wanted to leave money and a note.

I didn't have any cash.

I didn't have anything to write a note with.

So I was like, I don't know what to do.

We're just gonna have to least trust them.

Yeah, we're just gonna have to leave.

And I felt so awful, but we leave.

We go out into the wilderness for five days, have this whole transformative, beautiful experience to the point where I've kind of forgotten with a clean bell yea.

O my god.

Literally I was like, thank god this didn't happen the next night in a tent, in a sleeping bag without a shell.

Oh my god.

But I've had this whole amazing experience that I kind of forgot about it.

And then we get back to this.

Little town and we're like, oh, no, we have to go get our suitcases.

And I was like, oh, that's like the one hostel I would never like to return to in my life is this one.

And I've got to go back And is.

This just because you destroyed it?

Like you left it in a scene.

Of like yeah yeah, and like we cleaned it as much as we could, but I didn't leave.

I just there's no one I could contact to be like I am so sorry, Like I'm so sorry about this.

And when we go back, I was like, Oh, this is going to be so embarrassing.

And my brofriend's like they this would happen all the time, like, don't worry about it, It'll be fine.

Narrator, this never happened.

Yes, we walk in and sitting at the little desk, is this young guy who we hadn't dealt with before.

I was like, amazing, Like we can just grab our bags and go.

And this guy agreeed to this in English, so I was like, oh, amazing, I can speak to him and was like, hey, just here to collect our luggage.

And then all he says was una momento and I was like, oh my god, not a good sign.

And then he walks to the back brings out the owner of the hotel, who's the one we've been dealing with.

And I feel so awful for.

This young He was like a twenty years old guy that had to do the translating between his boss and us standing in front of him and they're talking in Spanish and all I can imagine them saying to each other.

Is this is the girl that sh the bet.

Yeah, yeah, like we've got it.

We've got to sort this out.

And then so this young guy he just looks at me and he looked so scared, and all he said was did you defecate z the bed?

And I was like, oh my god, this is even worse than I envisioned, Like what do I do?

So I just had to say, yes, yes, I did, that's me.

Yes.

And then and then oh my god, I got worse.

Then the owner goes around the corner again and he brings out a tub of the sheets.

I was like, it's been five days.

Why do we still have these sheets?

Like was he'd saved them to show me?

And I was like, yeah, I'm I'm familiar.

I was there, like I witnessed it.

I'm happy take my money, like do what you need to be done, but why do we still have these sheets?

And he was holding them up and be like, you know, like take it or like just like look what you did.

And I was like I know, I'm so so sorry, and we just couldn't translate.

So anyway, sent them a lot of money, got our bags and was out of there.

But is actually such an unusual response from the hostel.

That's worse than walking through a square having everyone's shout shame.

Like look at what you've done?

Yeah the crime throw them out mate.

Like it's like he thought maybe you guys had just gone and had a party and like gotten off your heads and like like it's pretty obvious you had an accident, or maybe he thought we didn't notice.

So he's like, oh, maybe maybe they didn't realize.

I'll show them.

I was like, oh, we noticed it and video did you not tell them about your spinal cord?

And we could only speak basic words to each other.

I feel like if there's ever a time to use anything as an excuse, that's the time.

It was just like, how much money do you want?

Here?

You go, please give me my bag.

And I love that they be using the bag as a bargaining chip.

They're like, you can't take this bag until you look at these sheep.

You're like, I'm looking.

He's like, put your head.

Like a dog.

But I was playing at home.

That might not know.

But m doesn't have control of her bowet.

So at the best of times, if you're not unwell, you can't feel it.

So it's not that I don't want anyone at home thinking that you just sat there and spray you shit like a hawk.

You know how hawks bray their pood like a third world country.

Sometimes it can happen.

Yeah, I have no idea when it's gonna happen.

I can't feel when something's like going on in my belly, and I also have no way of stopping it.

So even when you have a saw belly, normally you're like, okay, I'll quickly run to the toilet.

There's just no warning, so you know, Oh, I guess, I guess this is what's happening now.

It's I love.

The way can I know, we've got so much to talk about, but it seems the perfect time to talk about this.

Also, I love that you started that a feeling filtered with like, you know what, it's always about shit, I'm not going to do it, and then you're.

Like, but I am, but yeah, nothing else compares.

And to me, that's like, yeah, that was like a pretty horrific situation, but it's not that wild.

Like things like that are happening, maybe not to that extent, but like once a week, you know.

But I'm like, to the average listener, that might be their worst nightment.

So can we talk about your boyfriend?

I know we're gonna get into it later, but you just said you're in a relationship.

You're with a new guy?

Is this secret?

Squirrel?

Can you tell us how you met?

No?

Yeah, we've been together for so long, like every year, and I just haven't done the whole hard launch.

Can we hard launch him here?

Yeah, let's let's hard launch.

That's the blood tight what's his adject and do you know where we met on Hinge?

Nice?

I met mine on Hinge.

I met my husband on I mean a dating out rayal, but not Hinge.

But ray is a bit cooler than Hinge.

At least it's not Tinder.

At least we're not my sister got married off Tinder.

You know what.

I'm not young in anyone's yum, however it happens.

I really think we need to get over this narrative of like I need to meet them in the wild, while, however, you reach the destination who cares and me in the wild is shitting in public?

Like?

How am I going to meet someone's online?

Like this receptionist at the hostels?

That my guy?

Anyway, but yeah, we met.

The only reason I'm I don't love the Hinge story is because I just love.

A good love story and it's just a bit anti climatic.

But it really did the job.

I was on Hinge for one day, downloaded it for.

I mean, that's a story in yeah, yes, I do.

I know anyone I tell this story too, they're like, I hate you.

We matched immediately, like went over to text and then met in person I think two days later.

Deleted the app.

I was like, that was efficient, Yes, so very happy with that.

Okay, and then so do you guys live together?

What's yeah?

Yeah, basically since that first day basically, Wow, it's going great.

His name's Matt and he's just yeah, a little angel.

So then how does we are so jumping ahead?

But we may as well sit in it?

But how does that work for you with dating with a disability when it's something like, you know, there should be no pressure to ever have to talk about things you don't want to ever.

But I guess it's a bit different when you know that you might shit the bed every night, Like.

It's something that you how do you warm into that?

Well?

How do you have that discussion?

And like what does that look like for you?

Do you just go in really open on day one?

Yeah, It's something I'd never really thought that much about before.

It had never been so my accident was about twelve years ago, and not that I've.

Dated that many people in that timeframe, but whenever.

I have, it hasn't even really been a discussion, Like it hasn't been a big deal at all, And so I'd never had any kind of qualms with it.

But after I left my last long term relationship, which was maybe two years ago.

Now, I had my first experience where it was.

Like a point of contention, Yeah that's the word.

I was, yeah, between someone else, and I'd never encountered that before.

And it's interesting.

I think we spoke about this at the live shows.

But after probably the ten year anniversary of my accident and when I released my book, I kind of found myself going through this thought pattern of like, I just feel so detached from that whole part of my life, like the accident side of it and.

The whole story of it all.

And because it's a skydiving accident, people find it so interesting, yes, but when it's just my real life, I'm like, it's just it's the most mundane topic, Like it's not who I am, yeah, exactly.

So I found myself like really trying to not make that the most interesting thing about my life.

Obviously, the disability is different, because that's something I live with every single day and I'm not at all ashamed of that and that like that's the part that still affects my day to day life.

But I also don't want that to be the most interesting thing about me.

So when I meet someone new, I try really hard, not just in dating but anyone really.

I try to avoid it coming up the first time we meet.

So I don't even know how I do that.

Maybe in not going for a walk on the first date where they're like why are you limping and I'm like, oh, strange, both of my knees at ne ball but I don't play, or you know, or just being very vague about it because I want them to get to know me without that first.

But yeah, a few months ago, I know, sorry.

A few years ago, I met this guy and we were dating for a few months and he was really, really lovely and it seemed like it was going in a really good direction.

And then one night he randomly.

Turned to me and was like, I, oh, we lived in different cities, so I was like, it's actually pretty funny in hindsight.

I was like when he was leaving the next day and I was like, when do you want to see each other again?

And he just said never.

I was like, he said, unexpected response, but okay.

He literally wrote never, yeah.

In person to my face, like he's in my bed and he's like never.

I was like, okay, and were we going to discuss this?

Had I not brought it up, and then I was very rattled because everything seemed fine until that moment.

And then when we were talking about it and I asked him why, he said it was specifically because I had a disability, and oh my god.

I gave him so many opportunities to be like, look like, if you're just not interested, that's totally fine.

We're just getting to know each other.

It's so you know what I mean, It's so fine if you normal, yeah, whatever, like no hard feelings, you can just say you're not interested.

And he just kept doubling down.

He's like, no, no, no, I love everything about you.

I've never felt so close to someone before.

It's specifically because of your disability.

I was like, I'm going to give you another chance to not say that, and he just kept like doubling down.

I'm making a choice here to say this to me.

Yeah, And I just never encountered that before.

How horrible.

I'm sorry.

Sure.

I was on the floor, like I'm actually speech I was so shocked, and I remember I had kind of two main thoughts afterwards.

The first one was my immediate reaction was to defend myself and be like I do so many things that I never thought I would be able to do, and I like try to make the most of my body every day, and I'm like, wow, like I can't you see all the things that I'm capable of?

And I wanted to defend myself in.

That way and be like, how can you claim to know me when you don't know that I'm capable of all these things despite my disability.

You do more than most people I know.

Even if you didn't and even if you couldn't exactly.

And that was my second yeah thought.

I was like, that's just my ego.

That's me being like, you know, like, can't you see how much I drive?

And then the second thing, I was like, but that's so besides the point, because what if I was still in a wheelchair, Like what if I couldn't Like one of his reasons was you can't go on hikes?

And I was like, weird, weird.

Yeah right, It's like now I get why he wasn't in that bed.

He would have been like, and this is what I was talking about.

It would have been like, actually, he's like just circling back.

I told you this would happen.

I'm queer.

Yeah, But but I was like, man, and I gave him.

Normally, I'm quite reserved and I don't really stick up for myself as much as I want to internally, but I have never given.

I wish it was recorded, like a two hour talking to this guy, being.

Like, why does it matter?

Like why are you basing who you want to spend your life with or even the next few months with, whatever it is on something that is so like it beyond our control and something that doesn't actually determine who a person is.

I remember him saying, I've never met someone with a disability before, and I thought, have you ever been in the world, Like, I don't know what you mean, but I think because of that, if that is true, he had such an idea built up in his head of what it means what someone's life must be like with a disability, that he didn't actually give me a chance to get to know me.

He just had all these assumptions and yeah, but it just got me really upset because I was like, I'm outraged, because I'm shocked.

But what actually I found really really nice is that, for not a second did I believe anything he said.

Yeah, And I thought, wow.

If this was ten years ago, straight after my accident, I would have really really let that affect me.

But there was not a second where I questioned my worth, question my value, questioned whether or not someone would be able to love me.

I just thought, Wow, that is his thing.

And I so much more about him than you.

Yeah, but it got me really upset for other people, thinking, maybe I'm really naive in being so shocked that he has this view, because I'm sure there are people living with disabilities that are perhaps far more obvious externally than mine is, that are dealing with this every single day.

And I got so upset and angry on behalf of those people because I just hadn't really expected it before when it gave him.

A ted talk.

Oh yeah yeah yeah, but like also, not your responsibility to educate, Like that's just such a gross mentality.

Did that impact dating afterwards?

Like did you did you do anything differently after that experience?

No, it really didn't impact me.

Yeah yeah, I was more just so shocked and didn't realize how much I wanted to rally for everyone else with a disability until this moment.

It really like unlocked something in me where I just felt suddenly so protective of everyone else in the dating world that has a disability in me, Like, wow, I'm so sorry to anyone else who was going through this, and I feel really naive that I hadn't even considered that's something that.

People are judging us for on the outside.

I really hope that you can retell yourself that story and be so proud of yourself for the advocacy that you have done for other people that live with disabilities.

You know, I know that over the past couple of years, years, even since your accident, the amount of perceptions of disability that you would have changed in a really positive way, something that I doubt you would even know the.

Tip of the iceberg about.

Like you've educated me so much on thing.

There's something you said four years ago that I have never ever forgotten.

What it's to do with going and using public toilets if you're in a line for something like if there's a line for the women's like at a football game, or like at a concert or something like that.

If you're at a bar or a club.

I have never used the disabled toilet since, but sometimes if I was at like a club or something like that and there was a massive line and there was just like an empty disabled toilet or whatever, and there might be two of us, so we could go in together.

I'd be like, oh, we'll just quickly run in, you know, we'll just quickly use it, quickly quick.

And you taught me that like a lot of the time, people that have disabilities, they don't have the minute to wait, you know, if they need that toilet, it needs to be available for them right now.

I have not used one since.

So I think that even though this guy seems like the grossest of examples of someone who is so judgmental of anyone's capabilities, I think that you've done a real like you've done so much to change people's perceptions of what living with a disability can be like.

And when your book came out three years ago, I think that that really did do a lot for changing people's perceptions of what spinal cord injury can look like and what that recovery process is like.

And it was a fantastic But you were just such a beautiful, beautiful writer.

The way that you create stories and make people feel as though they're in that moment with you is quite exceptional.

But when your book came out, you actually experienced something really really sad personally that was going on at the exact same time.

That should have been this kind of joyous moment for you.

Can you talk us through that?

Yeah, for sure.

So yeah, I'd been writing my book for years and years.

It came out just before the ten year anniversary of my accident.

So I feel like for that whole ten years, I became really proud of myself, not just for writing the book, because that's a dream I'd always had, but for getting my life to a point where it was worth writing about, it was worth reading about.

I when you know, when my accident.

Happened, I never imagined that it could turn into something positive, or that any good lessons could come from it.

I just never imagined that.

So the book was kind of the epitome of like, look at what you created from that awful time.

But I imagine maybe it was it a bit of a a closing of a chapter.

Yeah, you said you didn't want to be that person.

It definitely felt like that.

It was very cathartic to write, and it very much felt like that's that chapter, let's move into the next one.

It was also, yeah, the ten year anniversary and I was turning thirty.

It just there were many chapters that were like, Okay, I'm exiting that stage and entering the new one.

Release my book.

Felt so proud of myself, so happy, and was just on like quite a high and was about to embark on the book to it, which I was really excited about.

But then a few days after my accident and.

Sorry I'm so used to say my accident.

A few days after the book came out, it was Father's Day and I went to call my dad to say Happy Father's Day, and he didn't answer, and I thought, that's that's weird.

But I felt that's weird, not in the way that you know, he didn't call.

It just immediately had that like pit in my.

Belly of like, oh, something's wrong, Like something's wrong.

And I kept calling throughout the day, and that feeling just kept growing of like something's really not right here.

And of course what I was thinking.

Is he's had some kind of accident or he's like in some kind of crisis, and that's why he can't answer, because he would usually answer a call yeah, or just it was more just my intuition like something's off.

And then when I eventually did get hold of him, he was so angry, and he basically just said that he didn't want anything to do with me or my sisters again, never wanted to talk to us again, and that was that.

And it was just the most first of all confusing.

Thing because it was so out of the blue, and especially the contrast of I was on this high and then I was suddenly just like whoa, Like what's what's happening?

And I to this day like don't know what happened, don't understand, And he really meant he'd never wanted to talk to us again, because it's been three years and we haven't.

And I've been really nervous to talk about this.

I've never been nervous for a podcast in general before because it's always on topics that I speak about so frequently, and it's just about my life, so there's nothing really at stake, and I feel really just really cautious when I'm talking about someone else because obviously I can only share.

My perspective and he can't share his.

And I've always very much been of the belief that if we had lived someone's exact life, we would make the exact choices that they make.

What was your relationship like with him before?

This, Like, was there any part of this where you could tether it together and say, oh, I sort of get it, we'd had these fallouts before, or did you just have a great relationship and then this was just a.

It was very very out of the blue, Like he'd spoke to me just a few days earlier saying that he'd read the book, and yeah, it was just very very out of the blue.

And yeah.

But the most confusing part of all of it, I think was the time that it happened in my life.

And I think when I tell friends.

And stuff this, they're like, oh, what was it that was in the book that made this happen?

Just because of the timeline, But that I truly do believe is so unrelated.

It was just coincidental timing.

Because there's nothing in my book that was negative at all about him.

But it was confusing in my life because I was then on this book tour and people, you know, were taking time out of their nights to come and listen to me speak and to get their books signed and to tell me such lovely things.

And suddenly I just.

Had so much doubt about all of that, because I was like, how can these people, these strangers who don't know anything about me think so highly of me when someone who's known me my entire life doesn't want to hear me speak at all and refuses to ever talk to me again.

And I thought if, like, if all these people knew me that well, would they think that way of me.

As well?

Yeah?

It was just such a contrasting time in my head.

You like, how can the person that's supposed to love me not love me?

Why would anyone else?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean like this person is the one person on this put on earth that is.

Supposed to kind of their duty.

Yeah yeah, it's like that's what I'm supposed to have, that support and love.

Yeah exactly.

And being twenty nine years old, I'm like, he's got the chance to know me over twenty nine years.

He knows me really well, and if he has this view of me, then everyone else's view of me must be wrong, Like that must be the accurate version of me.

Like you're holding up this facade that everyone's fallen in love with, but if they were to get to know the actual you, this person has shown you that that's not lovable exactly.

I truly felt like a fraud.

I just remember people were saying such lovely things to me.

I was just like, you have no idea.

I'm awful, I suck like you don't.

You don't know if you were to know me, you wouldn't be saying these things.

And you wrote something like related to this that I just it really hit me like a brick, to be honest, And it was something along the lines of like, if a father chooses to leave a baby, they're rejecting the idea of being a father.

But if a father chooses.

Or a parent of any kind chooses to leave an adult child, they're rejecting you because they know you.

But it's quite unique in this situation because it wasn't just you, it was also your sisters.

You know, how have your sisters felt?

And I guess you might not want to speak for them as well, but have you kind of sought closure within each other of like trying to work out why this might have happened, or like, I don't know, how have you been able to lean on each other throughout it?

Honestly, it's something we don't really talk about that much.

It's and I think, yeah, and I think we've all gone through our different processes of emotions with it.

Like perhaps they've gone through anger or confusion, frustration, And they both have kids as well, so I think that's another factor of you know, he's not just blocking out them, he's blocking at his grandkids as well, and so they have that added element whereas I don't have that.

And for me, I went through so many emotions to the main one just confusion, but above all of it, just so much empathy and sadness for whatever it is that must be going on in his world that made him block out the closest people in his life, because you don't do that if if you're okay, yeah, definitely yeah?

Was?

I mean, ha, guess how long did it take you?

Because I'm trying to put myself in this situation?

How many times had you tried after that phone call?

Had you tried to reconnect or see him or call him or understand or get you know, get a reason, get closure?

How long do you try before you realize and accept that, oh, this is this is real, Like he doesn't want me and I have to accept that and move on?

Yeah, oh countless, like I still do you still tried?

Yeah?

Sure?

And especially because just after this there was so many big milestones.

For example, the Yeah, the ten year anniversary, and when my accident happened, he was really really there for me in hospital, so it's like, that will be a day that he surely will have something to say.

And then it was my thirtieth, so I kept waiting.

I was like, oh, surely, like this is enough just to send a text or something.

And then it was like his sixtieth and it was so bizarre to not be with him for that.

And there were just so many milestones that I was like, oh, this will be the one, and I think maybe this birthday two years later was the first time I didn't anticipate it at all.

I was like, okay, obviously not, but I've still tried to call.

I've still tried to yeah, and just nothing nothing.

Yeah, So how do you move on?

How do you accept that?

Oh?

Have you?

It's I think, Yeah, there's so many different waves of and so many stages of it all, and I think, and why.

I did this post.

The point of view that post was from was how I felt, I guess in the years prior to this, that self doubt and that thinking that I must be an awful person and all of that, and I haven't.

Felt that way for a while.

So I think the way that I've come to acceptance is kind of just reminding myself that this isn't about me, This isn't personal, because it's both of my sisters as well, So it's not you know, what are the chances we're all awful people?

No, I want to be kept.

How I say this, There's never a time for a parent to abandon a child, but often majority of the time when it does happen, it happens because the parent doesn't want the parental obligation, right.

So usually it's when kids are younger and it's like, this isn't the life I wanted, and I'm not saying this is okay, but that's usually when the men fuck off.

Yeah, you know, but it seems so unusual.

Because when you have kids that are thirty, you don't have the same parental obligation.

You're not physically in the day to day financing them and raising them and running them to school and doing their school projects, and like, you can live whatever life you want and just still provide the love and connection and pick up a phone call.

So it just seems like even more confusing and unfathomable that he waited till he was at a point like he was there for you when you needed it more than anything.

Like when you're in the hospital and you're not walking and like your life has turned upside down, seems like that's such a strange time to leave, is when like, yeah, true, the responsibility is that you don't have the responsibility of anything anymore.

Yeah, that's such a good point of Actually never.

Sorry, I didn't want to bring any more points.

Yeah, it's really beautiful.

That you guys have the compassion to go like, well, something must be going on, you know, this is abnormal and through all of the I mean, we've spoken about parental estrangement a little bit on the podcast.

We've done an episode with Sam Fisher, who actually was on our live show as well, and he is estrange from his dad.

We don't just pick people for the live shows that are strange from their parents.

By the way.

And we've done an episode on narcissistic parenting with one of our listeners who also has cut off her mum because of some stuff that had happened.

But in both of those situations.

And I think in the majority, it's the adult child choosing to remove themselves from the parents' life rather than the other way around.

Yeah, and I actually think that it is a really beautiful perspective that you guys are able to kind of step back and park your ego, park your kind of like personal You've hurt me and you've abandoned me, and go, I feel really sad for what must be going on.

I think that that is a really really beautiful perspective to have.

And I also understand why you've been hesitant talking about it, because firstly, you don't really want to add any more fuel to a fire.

And I think that it would be hard to talk about these kinds of things publicly when you're not able to get that perspective of that other person.

And yeah, like I'm really grateful for you doing that, because I think there would be many people in your position, and I'm sure your dms.

Were absolutely flooded by.

People saying, oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one.

But I can also understand why you would be hesitant to talk about it.

Yeah, it feels very uncomfortable almost because I never want to speak on someone's behalf.

And so when I do talk about it, and when I did that post and talking about it now I want to focus solely on my experience, particularly with losing my confidence, because I was always quite a confident person inwardly before that, I just had so much self trust and I completely lost that because of all of this, And so that's the part that I wanted to talk about, rather than him as a person, because who knows what he's going through, who knows what his point of view is, and he can't respond to this publicly, so I don't think it's fair for me.

To talk about him.

But I was so surprised at the feedback that I received from my post about this, because I had tried for so long to research and read about all these kinds of things, and in all the scenarios I could find, it was the adult child choosing to cut off their toxic parent, which is still an awful and really sad situation and would take so much DEI to get to that point.

But it's always them choosing it to do it for their mental health or for you know, that's what's best for them.

And I never could find anything about it the other way, whether it's the adult the parents say no, I don't want anything to do with my child, my.

Adult child especially based off No Big Life exactly.

Yeah, yeah, And so many messages from people were saying they related.

They were like, I've never heard anyone else speak about this, but I one hundred percent relate, and I thought I was the only person that happened to And I've had no explanation in some people, like twenty years, I've never had any explanation, And it just blew my mind how many people could relate to it, which is really really sad to think about.

But also it was really comforting, I think for both of us in that situation to go, oh, wow, we're not alone in this, and perhaps this means it isn't personal on us.

There's something else going on that we're unaware of.

I think this is the same with like romantic relationships and even ghosting to an extent, YEA.

When you have no reason to have a conclusion, you're left to kind of wonder what the reasons could be, and we often fill those gaps with our biggest insecurities.

Yeah, you know, I know that.

When I was in the dating world, I was like, well, it must be this certain thing, this is why they've ghosted me, And it was always the things that I hated the most about myself was that why, you know, was the effects of that why you kind of took a little bit of a step back from public life and just you're a little bit more quiet.

You know, you still were posting here and there, but definitely not it wasn't the same end that we'd gotten to know online.

Yeah, I just, as I was saying before, I used to have so much confidence, which sounds so weird to say, because I'm innately such a shy person, so I'm not really outwardly confident.

But I just trusted myself so much.

I think, going through something so formative so young, I really just knew who I was, and I was like, I can do.

I can do whatever I put my mind to, you know.

And when it came to even releasing the book, that would be a scary thing for a lot of people, but I was like, no, I feel so proud of this, Like I think it's to do really well.

I think people enjoy it like I for not a second did I doubt that.

And after all of.

This happened, I noticed every single thing I went to do, I just would doubt in a way that I never had before, which is also probably a really normal experience in a way, I think I used to be quite arrogant that I never had had that experience before.

But you know what, maybe it's not arrogance.

Maybe when you go through something like you have, where you almost lost your life, you should have lost your life, you should have died that day, and you didn't.

I can't imagine you are left untouched by that, like your life doesn't change to the fact where you're like, I don't care anymore, Like I'm going to live every single day.

I don't need to be embarrassed b anything.

I don't need to be ashamed of anything.

I don't need to be like I can only imagine what that does to your day to day living where you want to just grasp everything.

Yeah, yeah, true.

I just didn't think about things as much.

I was like, I've got an idea.

I'm gonna do that and it's gonna work out.

Why can't I Yeah, why wouldn't it?

And that just has not existed since all of this happened.

And it's weird because it's not a conscious thought that I'm sitting there saying like, no, you're going to fail.

You must suck.

Everyone hates you.

Like I'm not telling myself those things.

But when I look at the timeline of the way that I used to act and the way that I act now and feel within myself, that was very much the tipping point of when things changed.

I mean, it's interesting that we have this discussion about I want to be careful with how I talk about it, because you know, I can't talk for him, and I think this happens a lot with romantic relationships as well.

But it comes down to, like, who owns a story.

It's still your story as much as it's his story, and you're still entitled to tell your story.

And I can only hope now that you are talking about it here you're talking about on your socials, that that is going to help flip your narrative in your brain again, to get you back to the m that you were, because it's a shame that since that moment you've felt like you're not the same person, or you're not worthy of.

Whatever it is you're achieving.

Maybe it's going to help you a lot by having these connections with other people where like you just said, you've realized, oh, you know what there are It's not just me, it's not just my sister it's like, this is something that happens, there's actually, unfortunately a whole community of people in your situation.

Yeah.

Yeah, and I already have felt that to some degree.

The conversations I've had with people in the last week have just been so beautiful and so comfortying, and especially hearing from people who dealt with this, you know, a decade or two ago, talking about all the different stages of them coming to acceptance with it.

And yeah, so I already can kind of feel that shift within myself, like something's being you know, released and let go of.

So that's positive.

Yeah, I hope the blank confidence comes back, and I have a feeling that maybe you're about to do something that could bring it back in bucket loads.

As we were walking in here, I was like, how's your training for the marathon going?

So you've decided to take on the New York Marathon.

It's a very big event.

It's one of the world's biggest.

It's something that I think only about one percent of people will ever complete, is a marathon during their lifetime.

What gave you this idea?

Well, do you know what?

Everything we were just talking about was kind of the reason.

I was like, I used to do just I put my mind to literally anything and be like, I'm going to do that.

So I was like, what can I do to just I just wanted to remind myself of who I am.

That I'm someone that can reach for things and achieve them, and even if I can't achieve them, I'm someone that actually really enjoys the challenge and universe.

Don't listen to that too hard because I feel.

Like, I know it's about the journey, not the destination, but I want to get to chat.

But what I mean by.

That is like I find when I am the most me and I'm the most passionate and driven, it's when I like have a goal that I'm working towards, and whether that's a goal that I've set, like the marathon, or whether it's something like when I was in hospital, which was out of my control, but in hospital, every day I was like, Okay, here's what I.

Have to do.

I have to get up and I have to work on this, and it just gives me like a bit of a I don't know, like a bit of a dusto.

But pep in my step was also a purpose.

Yeah, exactly exactly, And so I thought, Okay, I need a big goal that can just remind me of that part.

Of myself that's been missing for so long.

And I chose a marathon specifically because it's always always been a dream of mine to do.

Before my accident, I was a runner.

I loved running, and so it was always just something that I told myself one day, I'll run a marathon, and I just imagined that I would have more time to do that.

But then when my accident happened and I was told I would never walk again, I then had to come to terms with even more than that.

I was more upset thinking about.

The fact that I would never run again, because I think running just people either get it or they don't get it.

But I feel like run, I.

Don't get it.

I tried to get it.

I've tried runners high and I'm like, but how long do you have to do?

I did a half marathon.

Don a brag.

It was a bush off marathon.

Well I did that because I was like, I wanted to take it off the loose as well do with my whole family, because we're like that weird family that wants to do that stuff here with the whole family.

And I was like twenty kilometers in no fucking high.

I was like, I don't get the run high.

It's not going to hit me.

I'm never running again.

Well, well, time for doing it, Oh thank you.

But yeah, I used to just love it.

I remember I just would just feel so like free and strong and powerful and just like get in this real zone.

It was so cathartic, and I was like, love it so much.

And so when I was in hospital, I remember that being the thing that I was like, I'm going to miss a lot of things about my previous life, but that's the one thing I will miss the most.

And I made a.

Really conscious decision in hospital to not set too many physical goals because I didn't know whether or not I was going to get better.

It definitely didn't seem that I would.

So I was like, I don't want to put all of my all of my happiness and all of my expectations onto a physical thing that's pretty much out of my control that might not happen.

So I wasn't like, oh I want to Well, obviously I wanted to be able to walk again, but I tried so hard to not make that my main goal.

I wanted to make sure I would be okay.

With or without walking.

So I put more of my effort into my mental and emotional health.

But there was a thing in hospital that I would I never really told anyone, but I just kept it in the back of my head.

I was like, if I ever am lucky enough to run again, I'm going to run a marathon.

Like that's the big goal that I always always kept in the back of my head.

Then as the years passed, I couldn't run.

Even though I am so lucky to be walking, my legs are still partially paralyzed, and they're paralyzed in a way that makes me not able to run.

Not because it's painful or because it's bad for me, but because I physically just can't.

I can't go up onto my toes, which means I can't get the spring in my step.

You can't actually just do the movement.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So I thought I just eventually let go of my dream to run a marathon because I couldn't run.

And now that it's been so so long, my healing's definitely plateaued.

I'm not randomly well, who knows, but I highly doubt I'm randomly after twelve years going to suddenly heal more than I have to this point.

But then a few months ago, after all the hiking I was doing earlier this year, I came back home and walking suddenly was really really hard for me, And it's always a little bit hard for me, but in a way that I hadn't felt since hospital.

I would have to like hold onto the walls in my house to kind of pull myself along, and I could only walk tiny little distances each day.

Is that from over use?

Do you think?

Yeah?

I think so.

I think I must have done some kind of damage hiking, but I didn't realize, and I had scans and there was nothing obvious wrong.

But ever since I had my injury, doctors have said that it could worsen as I aged the effects of the spinal cord injury.

So I've always kind of had in the back of my mind that I may one day be in a wheelchair again, and I.

Imagined it would be far more in the future.

But when this started to happen, I thought, oh wow, like I again had that sense of I thought I had more time, and it got me really fearful in the sense that I'd never got to achieve my goal and even though I can't run, I thought, well, I can walk, and I don't know if I can walk a marathon.

It's far more than I've ever walked before, But I physically can walk, and maybe that won't always be the case.

So why why would I not do something just because it doesn't look the way that it once did when I first had this dream?

Yeah?

Yeah, and so how I mean, how do you think you're going to go?

It's forty two kilometers?

What's your at the moment?

Like, what's your limit with what's the.

Longest you've gone in like your hikes or your training.

Well, the longest walk I've done straight was the City to Serve here, which is fourteen kilometers.

Okay, so you got it?

Got avery where I go?

But I Everyone's like, what's your training plan?

And I'm going to be doing a lot of training, but my plan for the day.

People like, what's your pace?

What are you doing?

Vibes like, I think the vibes of your marathon I just the crowd.

I think I think it's gonna get me by you're an adrenaline girly.

Yeah, and I.

Also am a will see what happens in the moment person like I think, obviously, I'll do as much physical preparation as I can, but it's kind of best if I don't know how.

Bad something's going to be, because you just have you just go.

There's also just yeah, there's also something in the moment that just drives you.

Yeah, when you're there, you just seem to be able to do things.

And I don't just mean you obviously you because you're walking when you never were told you could.

But like people hear these stories of I don't getting off piece here, but these stories of people that can lift a car orf a toddler when it has to do like things that just like your body just turns up the adrenaline and the excitement to drive the goal is like, your body can do amazing things when you put your mind to it.

Are you doing this with anyone?

You doing it with your partner math or yeah, he'll be doing it with me as well, So he's gonna walk it with you.

Yeah, imagine he runs ahead like actually this is also a bucket list side of me.

Yeah, I'm gonna beat you by that's hilarious.

I don't think that the whole running a marathon from after having a spinal cord injury is a relatable thing for many people.

But I actually think there's something so relatable in what you're talking about.

And this is something that and I don't mean to make this about myself, but it's probably the one thing I've really questioned and sat in this whole year.

And it's to do with goals.

And it was after a conversation I had with Mark Manson, who wrote the subtle ard not giving a Fuck, And basically he's like, goals are shit, Like, you know, I almost want to say that they are almost useless.

It's the directionality that they put you on.

And it's kind of that, you know, the reason he says that it's not so that you don't have any goals, it's because reaching the goal often doesn't ever feel as good as what you think it's going to.

And so you saying like I had to let go of the goal of running a marathon, I actually don't think that's the case.

I think that you've just shifted it, you know, you've just kind of shifted it to this different mindset of like, Okay, well I can walk, and maybe that will you know, do this and this and that.

And I think that that aspect of your story is relatable for people.

So you know, in my life, I'm kind of like, oh, I've had all of these goals and I feel disappointed if I'm not actually able to reach them.

More I'm not a to achieve them.

Especially in the way that I thought I would.

You know, we often talk about milestone anxiety around our birthdays and around New Year's where we're not quite where we thought we would be.

But maybe there's actually something really inspiring in the shifting of a goal to suit your actual environment.

That's so true as Miley, as Miley Cyrus says, it's about the climb.

But no, it's it's so true, it's and it's never Yeah, it's never about the actual thing.

It just sets you off on a path that even if you don't reach the thing, Like if I am not able to finish this marathon, it doesn't matter because it got me on this direction to strive for something again and to push myself and to have developed self belief and confidence.

And yeah, I love that.

I feel I feel like I know you well enough that you will complete it.

I think that you would drag yourself over the line.

And even if you don't, I feel like your boyfriend Matt would pick you up drag over line.

Yeah, at the end of the day is exactly that, it doesn't matter.

You've turned up and you've given it a crack.

And I think exactly off what Kesh you'd have said.

It's like half the battle is just giving something to go.

Yeah, And I would hate for people to think that there was ever a failure if they went to do something and didn't complete it.

You turning up is more than I'm doing.

I'm not even going there to try.

And you did the half marathon, never again, and half half marathon in the Blue Mountains is not the New York Marathon.

Let's just put this and maybe you can imagine that guy at the hostel, the one who speaks Spanish.

Just imagine he's two meters behind.

Did you that's what you?

Oh my god, that will power me.

Yeah.

I've never wanted to get out of a room quicker than I have that room.

Do you feel like, and I maybe I'm saying this based on you know, a personal experience, do you feel like there's any part of you that is wanting to do it as a fuck you to this guy that was like, you know, I don't want to be with you because you have a disability.

Like is there anything that's maybe even deep down?

Because I remember when I used to go through like a bad breakup or something, or the best revenge for me was always like I'm just going to show you what you missed out on, Like I'm going to show you that I can do whatever I want to do.

Do you think there's anything leased in that?

And I'm not saying this is the right thing to do when you break up.

Validation sometimes sometimes it's a driving force for people when someone says you can't do something, it's like watch me.

Yeah, maybe I don't think so.

And I also don't think he would ever know if I did it.

I don't think he would.

He would he'd be lurking tell me his name after this, and I'll make sure I did, imagine.

But no, I really don't think so, because, as I said, I was so even shocked at how much that didn't affect me.

It upset me because I thought this was going somewhere.

With him, but it didn't affect me in the way that I thought I was worth less because I couldn't do these things.

And in a way it I even felt the opposite.

I was like, I don't want to prove that I can do these things because then your love for me is just circumstantial.

On what I can physically do.

So yeah, I kind of feel the opposite.

I almost was like, I want to do the least that I've ever done physically in front of this man, because I should still be lovable even yeah, yeah, even without all of that.

But who knows.

Maybe it was for the hike because when he said you can't go on hikes, and I was like.

Fucking watch and you've set a pretty ambitious target of what you want to raise.

Can you tell us who you're raising money for with this new marathon?

Yes?

So another component of it, there was the big personal goal of just the lifelong dream, and then there was the goal of wanting to just strive for something again and show myself I was capable of, like working towards something.

But even when I was, when I was thinking about those two things, I just can never shake the fact I'm like, but I'm so insanely lucky, Like who else that has a spinal cord injury is able to be like, oh, here's the goal that I have.

Maybe I can't run but I'll still walk.

It just still seems so like just unfathomable to me that I have the opportunity to walk, And more than anything, I wish that other people would spin cord injuries, could experience that moment of taking their first steps again in the way that I have, and not just taking their first steps again, but then getting to getting.

To do the goals that they once had before injury, the physical goals and even think about them.

Yeah exactly.

They're probably in that same mentality of you where it's like I don't want to have unrealistic expectations or goals yeah my physical capability, yeah exactly.

So I was like, Okay, I want to make this bigger than myself, and so I kind of set the mission of walking for those who can't and raising money for the Perry Cross Foundation who are in doing credible research for spinal cord injuries.

And yeah, I set the goal of one hundred thousand dollars to raise for them, and very ambitious goal.

But again it's like you said, the goal itself.

If we don't reach that target, it doesn't matter, like every dollar that we raise is going towards.

That and it's not like the money is getting refunded.

We didn't reach it.

Like sorry, yeah, exactly.

So we're going to put that link in out show notes as well.

Thank you.

Yeah, we will one hundred percent will be donating in supporting you.

But in your twenties, you've said that you you know, your identity was shrouded and the girl that fell from the sky and the accident in your disability and figuring all that out.

And then you've hit thirty and you've really gone through it.

You've had a lot of things that have happened to you and you've overcome.

Who are you now in your thirties?

What have you learned from everything in their twenties?

And this isn't just about living life with a disability.

I just feel like everybody becomes somebody different all of a sudden when you hit thirty, And it's not necessarily the milestone of thirty, but it's just that next decade, like you've lived and you've learned.

It's just that you've lived and learned so much more than most people.

Who are you now?

That is a great question, and I really I have no idea, But I remember when I turned thirty and there was a lot of talk in my friendship groups about thirty and people were talking about, you know, feeling like they hadn't reached the certain milestones of having a baby, getting married, having a house, all of these things, and I kind of felt the opposite.

I was like, I don't I don't care about all of these adult goals that I haven't reached yet.

I also feel like I didn't do the younger things that you know, most people do in their twenties.

In their twenties, I think is when people are you know, making mistakes, traveling, discovering themselves, dating different people, or the sting in a hostel.

Yeah have you?

Yeah, I was on a boat in Egypt and I had to ship myself in the desert.

And not joking, like as literal as you can take that statement in the background.

Like that she shut on the pyramid yep.

To come to she tootored on his tub.

No appreciate you sharing back to who are you?

No?

Who am I?

Yeah?

I really don't know, but I just I just the last few years I felt like I went on this I can say rampage.

It sounds like I did some crazy stuff.

But all the things that I didn't do in my twenties, I just started doing and I don't even know like what, but I just.

You know, traveled a lot more.

And because something so big happened to me so young, and because I felt so lucky to have healed in the way that I healed and to have survived in the first place, I just have always had this view that I have to do something so meaningful and so important with my life because I'm.

So lucky to have it.

That's a pressure.

Yeah, I put so much pressure on myself because I just thought, like, how dare I waste a day?

Like how dare I not cure cancer?

Like I have to do something so important with my life, and it really really weighed over me in I just always felt so much pressure to be good, like to just be a really really good person, which obviously I still want to and see myself as a good person, but I just kind of let go a little more and just put less rules on myself in ways that maybe a lot of people do in their twenties.

But just I can't even think of a basic example.

Oh, like I'd never had a coffee before in my life until year.

You are a psychopath?

Because I just thought I don't know, it just felt like bad.

I think it might've been the second time I met you in person.

It must have been one of our live shows, and we got into this pretty long, deep chat.

We were backstage together for quite a while, and I remember walking away from that and being like, I've always always loved your personality.

There was a different side of you.

There was this darker humor side of you that I got to to see.

I loved it.

I understand what you mean about this, not a facade.

It's just like a certain part of your personality where you were this glowing ray of sunshine.

You probably felt that people had that expectation of you, that you would always be so kind and so lovely and so nice and like.

All of those things.

It's a lot of pressure, especially when you've got a sassy side, like when you've got kind of that grittier, more resilient, more like humorous side to you.

I'm so glad that you feel as though you were able to unleash that a little bit more in your thirties.

And I think it's it's actually quite relatable for a lot of people.

I think we are conditioned to be good girls and to be liked and to be polite and kind.

I think it's just.

Something in your thirty where you don't give a fuck as much anymore.

It's like you just have learnt your lessons in a way, not all of them, Like you still make mistakes, trust me.

Like I was still drowning in red flags till I was.

I still am really, but I've never escaped it.

But I just think you don't care as much and you probably learned that lesson earlier.

But I say to a lot of people, like I have a lot of younger friends.

And it's hard when you're listening to some of the things they're saying and you're what you want to say is like, just you wait, in five years, you won't care.

Yeah.

I remember people always saying that to me about their thirty specifically, and I really felt.

I was like, I can't imagine not caring about people's opinions because.

I already feel like I don't.

I feel like I already had such a solid view of myself that outside opinions didn't matter.

So I thought I was there, and then no, when I hit thirty, like something changed again.

I was like, oh, it's not even outside opinions, it was my opinion of myself, like all these standards that I was holding myself to, and I was.

Like, no, like, let go a little, Like, yeah, have a coffee, So do.

You drink coffe enough?

I have an iced Armond mocha with only half strength coffee.

You wank up, but I just it's basically.

An ice chocolate with a little dash of She's like, okay, I have milolo.

Thank you so much for coming in today.

I could talk to you forever.

I just can't thank you enough always coming and sharing such a rare insight, like your experiences, and you might not think they are, but they are.

Like, not many people have.

Experienced what you've experienced on every level, like even to the situation with your father recently.

And it's not easy to talk about and it's definitely not easy to share with.

You know, one hundred million people.

But we've wait one hundred million people.

Exaggerate, we've had a munch a million downloads.

Yeah, but we don't have that many people listening to.

Yes, that is how many downloads we're expecting on this specific.

Share it with your friends, take her off zero.

We will have links to your social media so that everyone can follow along with everything to do with the New York Marria phone in all your travels, and also a link to donate.

What's the charity?

Sorry, the Perry cross Man Perry Cross Great.

There'll be a link for that in ASHURNUS as well.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you