This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.

Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life.

I'm cut, I'm Laura, I'm Britney, and this is.

Us gun cut where we answer yeare deep, you're dark, and you're burning questions.

Now you're just saying, Laura, Okay.

We've discovered that there's two types of people in the world, and there's only two types of people.

There are people who turn their laptop off at the end of the day.

They shut down, one might say.

And then there's people who have never shut their laptop down ever, unless it's run out of battery.

And I am have a guess.

Have a guess which one?

I think?

Yeah, we know.

I haven't shut my laptop down since since I gave birth to Poppy.

Actually it's a lie.

I didn't shut it downe then it turned off because I had no battery.

I have never once shut my laptop down unless the error comes up where it's like you need to restart this because I'm having an aneurysm.

That's the only time I've never do.

You know what I do?

Sometimes as well?

I know what I do.

I shut it down, shut I don't restart it.

I don't put it to sleep.

I do nothing.

I just close the lid.

Sometimes if things are taking too long too shut like close, like apps are taking too long to close on my computer, or I have too many of them open at one time and the process of closing them all would take more than thirty seconds, I just forced quit everything.

But that's also fine too.

It's so bad if I have to get the tabs back in the order that I like them.

That's a genuinely emotionally draining thing.

For me to do.

Like that actually upsets me.

If I lose the order that the taps are in, I don't know where they are.

Gmails at the start, you can restore, you restore.

I did learn that from you because I got upset one day.

But sometimes you can't.

If you do like a whole update and like it's shut down for a certain amount of time, it doesn't let you forget.

What I'm taking from this conversation is that I actually don't think anyone shuts their laptops down.

I don't think anyone goes to the little apple symbol and goes shut down laptop.

I think that I don't.

I reckon it's only people that work in offices where you have to shut your computer down at the end of the day.

I don't know anyone else, but putting your flap down is like for sleep.

I put my flap down all the time.

It's like a sleep.

My flaps are constantly shut.

My flaps were.

Hey, wait, I have to tell you something.

It is about flaps, like so apparently, and I think I might have mentioned this.

I was told this on an episode before, in which case, give me the green room, put me to sleep.

When you go through menopause, you lose your LaBier.

Yeah, shrink, it's shrink.

It's trivial.

So I've been talking about it for forever that I was going to get like a laby plasty.

I'm not getting it, because when you have less estrogen in your body, your LaBier disappears.

You don't have a LaBier.

Where does it go.

I've seen many, many, many elderly vaginas, so I have known this for a very long time.

No labyers, Brittany, stop talking about your weekends where it were.

They're there, but they're they're just very shriveled and small.

It's like but they just suck back in.

Yeah.

I like that.

I'm ready for it.

Come on estrogen, my buddy.

You don't want to bring on menopause just so you get a skinny labyer.

You've got to take the winds where you find them.

I can't believe that you strategically force quit your laptop like this.

Sorry, this really reminds me of the time, Britt you were away.

You were doing I can't remember.

Sometime one of the shows, and I came to Laura and I said, this is a laptop activity, Like it's a task that is so big it has to be on a laptop.

I think I ended up drawing a line in the sand and saying that anything of a purchase of over three hundred dollars for me has to be made from a laptop.

Can't do that from a phone.

It's too much pressure, like you can't see enough.

And it was really, really divided.

Laura ended up saying that she would book her own funeral on her phone.

Everything.

Yeah, everything.

I will run my entire life off my phone.

I think that the question now has become it's not about whether you shut your laptop off or not.

It's whether you are the type of person who needs to have your tabs in the same order, or if you're as chaotic as Laura and you can just force quit them willy nilly because there's too many open.

Yeah, sometimes I wish I could like extend that to my brain and just be like control olderly shutdown quit open type shut.

All right, Well, look it is askn cut, as we said, but before we get into your questions, we need to do our vibes and unsubscribes for the week.

I have a very rogue vibe, like it's not your typical vibe.

I'm gonna go last, brit your first.

Mine.

Mine is a podcast that may or may not be divisive that I'm recommending it, but and I don't even know why I'm recommending it other than it's super interesting.

I don't know how I feel about it yet.

So I want to say that many years ago, we did an episode with India Oxenburg.

Now India Oxenburg was in the sex cult Nexium.

She's a survivor guy.

Yeah, Keith Ranieri was the head of the sex cult and she did this in conjunction with Stand to just highlight exactly what went on.

It was an incredible docuseriies it's an incredible episode that we did with India Oxenburg, just highlighting what went on in this cult that so many people don't know about.

Now, this podcast series is called Alison after Nixium.

Now what this is is Alison Mack was the woman that I guess was like a sub leader of this cult.

She was underneath Keith Raniery.

So she got sucked into this cult, became almost in a partnership with Keith Reniery, and she was one of the people that then brought India in underneath her.

So there was like this hierarchy.

Yeah, and she was from Smallville.

But also the reason why there's the TV shows.

Yeah, So the reason why Nextim became such a like it was such a prolific conversation story around this cult is because it had so many celebrities.

It started.

It was like forward facing, almost like a self help group and like think about going to like a Tony Robbins type concert.

They had those sorts of things, and so on one hand it was like a self help program, and on the other hand, once you had like moved up into the highest divisions of this self help program, you actually were working underneath Keithorynia and that's when he was becoming like this predator that's how he enacted his sexual violence.

It's a crazy story but interesting because Alison Mack's been in prison for a long time because of it.

Well, Alison Mack is out of prison now, so this is the first time.

This is a podcast series that they're interviewing Alison Mack.

The whole series is interviewing her on her experience.

It's fascinating.

And when I say I don't know how I feel yet, it's because when I started it, I didn't know the angle they were going to take.

I didn't know if it was going to be a real woe is me a real victim mentality because she she has taken complete ownership, and the podcast is unraveling how she got into it, because she's the one that I said such so many other people, including India Oxenburg, but it's how she originally got brought into it, how it all worked, because I didn't even realize it was funded by two heiresses to this billion dollar fortune, so they were putting one heiress put one hundred million dollars of her own money to keep Keith Rinieri and Nixium afloat.

So you'll find a lot of information about it.

But she sits down, and I was really I had my guard up to think, how am I going to feel about this?

She takes a lot of ownership Allison about what she did, and she speaks very openly about what she did and how she did it.

She speaks about all of her flaws, about how she was feeling at the time, and basically that she's like, she's like, I was an narcissist and I was this, and I was that, and I truly believed what I was doing was right.

But she openly will say now she knows it's wrong.

She's obviously had the time.

I don't think I feel sorry for her.

I don't think I'm excusing her, but that's not to say that in some capacity.

My takeaway is like, in a way, she was a victim too.

I think people can be victims and perpetrators, Yeah, but she was.

She was both.

She was a victim and then a perpetrator.

And it's a maybe.

I'm so fascinated by the podcast because it's balancing both.

I think I would really struggle to listen to that, because you would.

We have a relationship with India, and I still speak to India, and I think having a redemption story to the perpetrator, even if they were a victim at the start.

I don't know how I would be able to stomach it, to be honest.

That's so true, But it's not a redemption story by any means.

It's almost just a bit more of an expos and a lifting of the curtain onto what went on.

It hasn't changed how I feel about her, but I guess in a way I understand more about that cult and what it was like because she's not trying to say, everybody forgive me, this is what I did.

It's really not that.

It's actually really interesting that she's doing it, because I thought if you would ever do that, that's the anger you would take.

But that's not it.

I think amount of questions how you feel about justice and whether people can change, and whether it is all just a show or not.

This sounds really fascinating.

And yeah, I do think that people can be in situations where they are both and sometimes simultaneously, victims and perpetrators, and it has a lot to do with manipulation, and that's not about excusing their behavior.

It's actually about providing reasons that it was able to happen.

And I think if you can unpack those things, then.

Hopefully societally were able to stop these things in their track sooner.

And I do think it's important to be able to understand why people are the way they are in any aspect, and it doesn't mean you have to change your opinion on them, but it's open to interpretation.

And she was there, like there is no doubt that she was a victim before she became the perpetrator, Like she got sucked in the same way she was on a five hundred calorie a day diet that was starving themselves.

She was physically branded as well.

Everything that she ended up doing happened to her.

And it's not an excuse, but it is very interesting.

But what I will say in full disclaimer, just in cases goes Heywire, it's eight episodes.

I've only listened to four because the other four are being released in the week, so I'm four deep and I don't know what's going to happen in the next four.

But it is just interesting getting a different insight into that cult.

And I guess along that line, India does have a book of her own if you are more interested in hearing her story.

It is called still Learning a memoir My vibe this week is a person who has actually really encouraged me to become a little bit more active, and it is not in the way that you would typically think.

This is an Instagram account called Scottie is Fat and he's got five hundred and sixty three thousand followers.

He's a yoga teacher, he's a podcast host, he is a part time actor, but he's also a reluctant runner.

I just want to give you an example.

You've probably seen it.

His videos are so so funny.

They make me laugh so much, but they also make me be like, you know what, maybe I actually can go out and exercise because he's got a good message towards the end.

This is what he sounds like this week.

Come in a place which essentially is a series of consonants put together.

I'm somewhere in North Wales.

There are lots of fucking heels for sitting bed all day.

I'll just be like, oh, we should have gone for a run.

Come to one running up a fucking hill.

There's cold air in my fucking lungs.

I cannot tell you how little I want to fucking do this another fucking hill.

No wonder why the Welsh's so fucking miserable.

I'm having a bit of a walk and if you've got a problem with that, go fucking tell your mum, because I'm not interested too.

I've got my yoga music on, facing the sun.

Just secod morning to the fucking HoTT if arm after.

Of course he's wearing a pair of fucking rugby shorts and not much else.

I take everything back I said about Welsh.

I'm downloading fucking Dueling, Go Welsh, now, clumbus the floor.

I just run up a hill without complaining about it.

I'm fantasizing about a coffee, but the town I'm running towards has only got a coster, and I'm not that fucking desperate.

If you're a hill runner, I genuinely think you need to go for a mental health assessment.

Five.

It's got a liching bump, number seven.

Number eight, and that's where I finished nine and a half.

You might realized by now that I don't run for pleasure.

I run for the feelings that I get.

Afterwards, on Friday, my mental health nurse called me to check my meds and to let me know that two years ago was my last psychoic episode.

And obviously in the last two years, running has been a big part of my life.

I don't believe that running will cure me, but it's one of the many things that gives me nice thoughts and feelings.

It can demonstrate to me that can do hard things and pull through the other side.

He's just fantastic.

He's so entertaining.

He's got all of these videos where he's doing yoga and he's I mean, his account is called Scotti is Fat.

He's in a bigger body, and he really.

Shows people that, you know, the aesthetic of yoga, it doesn't have to look a certain way, the aesthetic of running.

Like his videos are just so entertaining, and I find.

Them really really motivating, like just in the sense that he takes the piss.

I love it, and I think that going into the New year, there is about to be a shitload of motivational you know, you need a different body content.

I find him a really good person to follow.

Also, I'm yeah, I know every year we talk about it.

We're like, how do you feel about New Year's resolutions?

The same I'm not having any wait to be about.

A resolution episode.

We always do it, and I always say, like you know, I think we make it about a month.

I've never done a resolution in a line.

I'm on mine.

No, we do our resolution episodes, but we never do our resolution.

Oh yeah, yeah, it's all fake.

I'm doing mine.

What mine was to have a hobby that wasn't about work or self improvement in terms of like health and fitness.

And I'm up to like day three hundred and fifty something of DUELINGO.

And you speak French, Yes, we yeah, but it's more so.

Look, if I was doing more than three minutes a day, I'd probably be able to do more.

But it's about doing the one thing every day.

I've done it every day and I just turn up for a couple of minutes.

And it's not about health.

It's not about what I look like.

It's not about a work improvement.

It's about croissants.

Law As you said that yours was a bit of a rogue on Okay, mine is very rogue because it is not a product and it is not a book or a podcast.

It is a life experience.

Everyone strap on in.

Didn't I do that once?

When we were like hang out with your friends, that was yours?

Know what I was like, go home?

I think I had a dinner party or something and had a really good time, and I was like, I haven't do that.

Okay, that's pretty much the equivalent of this.

Okay, mine, mineus not hang out with your friends, though mine is go and do Christmas trivia with your friends.

Okay, so is the same on the weekend, so our neighbor is she is like the queen of festivities.

They're from America.

There are a couple.

They've got two little kids, and like Halloween, they had a Halloween party.

At Christmas they had Christmas adult trivia, and like she is the person who is like the holiday maker.

And I've always kind of thought this since having kids.

It's like, if you don't make Christmas special, like no one's making it special, right, Like if you're not the one who makes it big and does the decorations and put it's up the tree and has like little family traditions, they don't just make themselves like Christmas is only special because the people around you who make it special.

On the weekend, she did Christmas trivia.

She created this massive board and every little pocket had like a different trivia thing in it, and we were put into teams and it was so fun.

It was such a fun afternoon.

And I this is my recommendation to you if you over the next couple of weeks, get your girlfriends together, get a group of people together, and go and do Christmas trivia with dranks.

If you enjoy it, or if you're the sober kind, I'm sure you'll still have a great time.

But they were like all different categories.

There was like the Man, the myth, the legend, and it was about Santa Claus.

There was like Christmas Tree, the ages, there was Christmas around the worl world.

There was movies and music.

So you could pick your category and you picked which envelope accounted for.

So like there was like questions that were six hundred, questions that were four hundred.

Anyway, it was fucking great.

Well, I've just googled, and for anyone who doesn't have the effort the capabilities to organize something like that, you can get from Amazon Gift Republic Christmas Trivia for thirty nine forty six.

Let's get into your questions.

Okay, Question number one is taking food home from a dinner party route.

Nah, this is funny, this is so relatable.

Also great for Christmas time.

I'd love your thoughts on something that happened and my annual potluck style movie night and dinner party.

I host this every year for six to eight friends and I usually provide homemade pizzas, drinks, and an appetizer.

Everyone else will bring a small dish or extra snacks for the movie.

This chick is absolutely organizing Christmas Trivia's the Christmas trees.

Everyone needs one of.

These people in their friendship group.

Yeah, otherwise nothing gets done.

This year, one friend brought cheeses and I don't know, I'm laughing.

Sorry.

This year one, it's just so specific.

Get my shit together.

This year one friend brought cheese and crackers and she told us to keep the leftovers, which is great.

But at the end of the night, another couple who two of my closest friends, went into the fridge and took back the drinks that they brought and packed up the dessert that they had made.

Here's the question, what is the etiquette for a pot luck style dinner party.

Is it rude to take home what you've brought or is that just perfectly okay normal for context.

This couple is extremely wealthy, but maybe that doesn't matter.

I'd love to hear your take on it.

Am I overthinking it?

Or is this a social faux pas?

Depends on what dish the dessert was in.

Okay, hear me out.

If it was in a fancy dish or in a tupware container that they wanted back, then it's all fair game.

You don't get free tup aware just because you host a party.

Because if we do Christmas lunch, for example, and there's heaps of leftovers, I send people home with doggie bags.

They go home with a little sandwich thing that they can have the next day.

I don't want it all at our house, don't the next five days.

I would never personally go the fridge and take back stuff.

I would die.

I would just not do it.

If I brought but where I thought this was going while I was laughing when she's like one friend brought cheese, I thought they're going to take the cube of cheese.

But that was just a bit of extra information that friend left the cheese.

How do you feel about the drinks though, because like, let's say we were having a dinner party and I brought over a six pack but I only had two.

No, you can't do I go and take my other four back.

No, because the whole thing is right.

It's like, hey, I'm going to provide the bulk of everything, Like just bring this your little contribution, but that stays with the host.

You don't take that back.

Like, in my eye, I think that there is like levels of etiquette here.

It depends on who whose house it is.

It depends on how close you are, depends on its family, if it's your best friend, whatever.

I also think it depends on what the drink is.

If it's a bottle of wine, it's been opened, that's staying.

If it's a bottle of spirits, it's been opened, that's staying.

If it's a six pack and you've had one beer out of it, I think you can take the individual portions.

I think you can take that home.

What about if you didn't open the bottle of wine that you brought up.

If it's a bottle of wine, that's a gift.

Like if you're rocking up to someone's house and the contribution that you have brought is a bottle of wine, you don't take that, then you're leaving it.

But for example, it's just like if you bring a bottle of wine and a six pack because your partner, or someone's drinking beers and they're the only one drinking the beers and they have one of them, then I'm like, take the five beers home.

I think that there's just an etiquette around whose house it is more so, and.

It's also very specific to what the evening all day like the situation the event is.

Because this is like a Potlock style dinner.

This is literally like I'm going to provide everything.

Everyone just come and contributes something.

It's a dinner that she's put on.

If it's a hey, everyone come over for a Saturday barbecue, bring your own drinks, then yeah, you pack your drinks up and go like it's that is different.

The dessert thing I agree on.

If they've brought a beautiful crystal platter with a cake on it, they're not going to leave that for you.

But it's also if they're never getting it back, that's the problem.

If you leave a plate or a platter at someone's house, only fifty percent of the times that are boomerang is it's coming back to you.

So we have this is funny.

When I go up to the Gold Coast to see my sister, we have a group of friends up there there's five of us, and every single time I go up, we all have dinner and usually we go to something.

Sometimes we go out, but usually we'll just go to someone's house and we have a it's called the dessert plate, and it just goes between people's houses, and the next time we go up, that's what they bring the dessert plate back on.

Then the plate stays at that so Shannon will take it to Sherry's house and then Sherry keeps it there, we eat it, she'll wash it up.

Then the next dinner, a couple of weeks later, the dessert plate, Sherry makes a dessert and it goes to Tany and it's just that one exact So it's like we do have one really nice dessert plate that just gets around, like the Sisterhood of the tra dessert plate.

It is.

Of all the questions we get sent, this one made it in the list.

Because it's relatable.

Yes, it's social etiquette, and because there isn't a clear line in the sand.

There's so many factors that no one knows what's right and what's wrong.

But I think what we've established is that there's still no clear line in the sand.

The question is also around like who needs it more?

And I don't say need it more, but where's the best place for the leftovers?

Because if it's my house, I'm making people take it.

I live alone, I'm not going to use it.

But if it's a found if like you're the single person, if I've come to your house, Laura, and you've got three kids, You've got Ellie, you've got Matt, your house is full.

If I'm going to take all the leftovers back to my house on my own, then that's so rude because they bet they're going to be eaten at your house.

Like, I think it's very situational.

There's no black and white.

Yes you do leave something, No you don't.

There's just not it's too dependent on stuff.

But personally, I'd rather die than go back to the fridge and take my cubes of cheese and my dessert and.

My drinks and leave.

I would like to answer the last part this question, though it says am I overthinking it?

The question?

The answer is yes.

Now.

I also think that this was very pointed because she's like, my wealthy friend is the one who took home the leftover?

This disappointed Yeah, if either of you come to my house.

You better fucking leave everything, including the nice stableware.

All right.

Next question, ladies, I'm in a little pickled dickle.

I love that you use that, and I would love your thoughts on the route forward.

Now for context, I am a solo mum that has recently ended a three year relationship with a solo dad.

We both have children that are old enough to understand and feel the loss here.

So this was a well thought through decision on my part based on repeated avoidant patterns and lack of communication.

Now, he didn't take it well, and he proceeded to block all communication with me.

No worries.

That was his prerogative to do so.

However, the issue is that he still has a few things of mine that I would like back, including a brand new motorcycle helmet that I know he was envious of, and he's probably likely using it for himself now.

He also has my eight year old scooter.

I cannot contact him as far as I am aware.

Now, my daughter's husband, sorry, my daughter's father, with whom I have an excellent relationship with, has offered to message to collect it.

However, I feel that that looks really petty and like I'm pitting two burly dudes against each other, so I politely declined.

His wife also offered to reach out.

Again, I don't feel great about asking someone else to do my dirty work.

What would you do?

Show up unannounced, which I don't feel particularly safe about doing so, message one of his family members, or cut my losses, even though I hate the fact that he is very likely wearing my shiny new helmet and giving his kids my daughter's electric scooter.

What would you do?

I I wouldn't snall male.

I wouldn't turn up for sure, especially when you said I don't feel safe, and I wouldn't contact his family.

What I probably would do is take your ex husband up on his offer to say, hey, I can reach out if you want me to try and get it.

It sounds like you guys were together for a while or three years.

Yeah, you were together for a long time, so I have no doubt that your recent ex has some kind of a relationship with your ex husband, Like three years.

With kids, they're gonna know who each other are, so I think it's okay for him.

It doesn't have to be aggressive.

Your ex knows that he's blocked you, that you can't contact him.

I think it's okay for him to say, Hey, Sarah hasn't been able to get ahold of you, like you know, read between the lines.

If it's cool and you're around on Saturday, I'm going to come and pick up a few of her things.

Don't ask.

I'm gonna go and grab the helmet and the scooter and let me know a time that works.

I just put it to him.

He's not going to ignore it coming from the guy.

He knows he's got your stuff and it's not little stuff like an electric scooter is a big thing, and it's your daughters and you bike helmet.

They're not cheap either.

Don't you think though, that if he organizes a time he will ignore it, like he just won't be home, Like if he wants to be that petty like he's already blocked out, Yes, can't get in contact.

If the ex husband's now calling and being like, I'm coming around on Saturday or ten am to pick up the bike, Well.

It's easier to be petty with a woman that he feels like he can control then it is to be petty with another big burly man that also has an interest in it.

Like it just gets he's going to give you the shit back.

I think it's easier because there's a kids scooter as well, exactly like the dad is trying to get the scooter for his own daughter too.

Helmet can just get thrown in.

I mean, it's a whole other issue.

If he doesn't want to comply with your ex's request to pick it up, it could be a pretty murky path.

And maybe if they start having issues, I'd probably just call it a day and be like, you know what, it's not worth it keep the scooter.

But I would be shocked if he had an issue with your husband saying, hey, I'm going to come and pick up sally scooter.

Yeah.

And I also wouldn't just cut my losses like in this instance, Like just because you go through a separation doesn't mean that someone's entitled to keep the things that you left at their house.

That's not an altruistic gift.

You're not giving him your helmet.

There's definitely a time where you let deag dogs lie.

Like not every relationship when it ends.

If you've left something there, is it worth going back and getting?

Like I know, it's like easy to say you shouldn't have to leave it.

They shouldn't have to take it.

Sometimes it is definitely easier, but that's dependent on how that relationship ended, what is going on, and what the item was like.

If it was the most toxic relationship when you left, you jump in there, I'd probably let the jump go.

Well, I actually think it's probably more so around they're having a third party going and doing it for you, right, like in the instance that you are going through a separation and there are things that need to be done, like what is and isn't okay?

I mean having your ex rock up to pick up things.

The only reason why it's okay in this instance is because there's a kid involved, and no doubt you've had relationships with you know each other.

But I would say normally it is not a normal thing to have your ex rock up at their house to pick up things that you own.

I would say that that could create more tension.

But I don't think that it's clear cut, and I think it depends on how much is something worth, what's the sentimental value, what drama is it going to cause?

And also often people use leaving something at their house as an excuse to try and see them again.

Do you know what I mean?

Like you have that fucking ten dollar cup I bought from Kmart.

That's my favorite mug.

I'm coming to get it.

Sometimes it's actually not about the item, it's about the excuse to have contact, which doesn't seem like it's the case in this instance.

So I think you know, knowing what is the reasoning behind wanting something makes a big difference to it too.

It's also because you know he secretly wanted your helmet, so it's like, also you want to be like, fuck, I'm Kenna'm back because I know you're using it.

Are people normally envious of people's helmets?

Like?

Is that a normal thing?

A helmet's really expensiveness you a you're at a motorbike?

Is a helmet thing?

Like they can be I like the ones that have the magpie things coming out to.

But like I joking, is that one.

Ben blessed him last time he was here.

He's like, what the fuck is that helmet?

And I'm like, that's because we also have magpie sweeping season.

He was shocked.

He was like, Australia has everything.

That actually would be really funny to a foreignother is just so like assumed.

But you've got to be a specific type of person to wear a magpie helmet.

Or you've been at tipped enough, you've been attacked enough.

All right, do I blow up my life?

Let's get into it.

If you had a family that you didn't know exis, would you want them to contact you genuinely?

Would you want your.

Life as you know it to change forever?

Or would you want it to remain as is.

I'm grappling with this and want to hear as many perspectives as possible.

Now, just for quick contexts.

That was the entire question, which made no sense.

We needed more.

But I loved the question.

I loved the idea of even just that sit here right now.

If there is a family out If you have family out there right now, Laura Kish, would you want them no background in context, you know that you've got siblings or maybe your biological mom, would you want them to contact you?

It depends on who they are, doesn't it?

It depends, don't know.

That's the way rich Well.

I wrote back to her, and I said, give me more.

So here's the more.

Okay, it's the nineteen sixties.

My mom was conceived by two teens, then forcibly given up for adoption.

After her birth.

She found her biological mom later in life, but the secret of her biological father remained until twenty twenty three.

Mom did a my heritage DNA test.

From there we worked out who who her biological father was.

We managed to track him down.

We spoke with him on the phone, and he was the most kind and lovely man, everything you could hope for.

He never knew about Mum.

He didn't know how to tell his family about us, except for his older sister, and then he died a couple of months later.

We watched his funeral online.

His sister hasn't wanted the secret to come out at all.

She is of the view that Mum knows where she comes from now and that should be enough.

We've respected her wishes for two years, but every so often I wonder if walking away is the right thing to do.

The sister, who I call from time to time, is dying now.

Also, I'd love to reach out to the rest of the family, But is my great aunt right?

Is it best to let sleeping dogs lie?

This is really tricky and I really feel for everyone involved because I don't want to say it goes back to like who owns a story?

Right?

But in a way, it does affect everybody.

It affects the aunt that doesn't want you to contact the family as much as it affects you wanting to contact the family.

Like everyone's entitled to have their feelings and opinions.

But I think at the end of the day, and it's so hard because I've never been in this situation, I don't think I will ever be in the situation.

Having said that, I sent off my DNA test last week, so unless that comes back, there could be some spoilers.

Tony Hawkley, what'd you been up to?

But I'm not expecting anything like that.

I just want to know my heritage.

But it's something that you have been thinking about for a long time.

It is also your family, and you are also entitled too.

I would probably be inclined to reach out.

And if the rest of the family's feedback is we don't really want to go there and we don't want to know about it, then you do have to respect it.

It comes to the point.

But if it was just one auntie saying don't do it, move on, it's time, that wouldn't be enough for me.

That wouldn't be enough to lull my feelings that are probably going to be overpowering for a long time to want to know more about your heritage and your family tree and things like that.

So I would probably continue knew to try and contact the family, But if then it comes to some pushback, then you've got no choice but to be like cool.

I reached out, I put it there.

No one wants a bar of it, but that's just me personally.

I think with this very specific story, you've said that the sister is now on her deathbed.

Also, I would say, for the time being, if that's her wishes, Like if she's the only one who knows, and he only told her, there's probably a reason why he only told her At this point, I would respect that she and he didn't want anyone else to know, and I wouldn't necessarily make the last couple of months of her life emotionally dramatic and stressful if she felt as though this is something that she had to keep and that was expected to be kept a secret.

If once she passes away, you want to reach out and had that conversation with you know, the children of him, and let them know that they have another sibling, Like I think that that's a different conversation, but I wouldn't be doing it while she's alive, especially if she's expressed this.

I just think that if feels deeply disrespectful.

And I would ask the question in the opposite way because you asked if you had a family, would you want to know?

I don't think it matters what necessarily they specifically want to know.

Do you feel as though you need to find out more?

Because if you're doing it for them, then I would say there's not really a need.

Are you doing it for yourself?

Yeah?

Because then I think like, if there's this unmet need to kind of find out more about your story and to find out more about where you came from and all of that, then I understand it.

But if you're just doing it for the benefit of the people who don't know, then I would say, why take that burden on board?

Like why make that decision for them?

Yeah, I'm pretty in the if it were me personally, and I don't want to project this onto you, I wouldn't be telling anyone because I have a really strong opinion on nature versus nurture when it comes to what makes a person who they are, and that is backed by science.

But I just don't think that.

I don't think that many of us know much more.

About our biological heritage further than our grandparents.

Some of us might be lucky enough to know great grandparents, but I just don't think it's actually going to give you much information that's going to change anything for you, because you were brought up in different environments.

This family, you know, you do share some genetic material, but other than like health conditions, like what are you really gonna know about that you don't already maybe have access to or.

It's about from I understand it, I mean, think about it if you if you can end doubt that your mum was because she didn't already have that info.

She's not about the dad, no I know, I know, but like you didn't know anything about your granddad or like you know, it's a very close the link is not so tenuous, it's not so far in history.

It's your grandfather, and it's like your cousins, and it's there is a really close link to this.

I think it's your Aunnie's, it's your uncles, it's your cousins.

It's I think that that's where I have the difference though, And I'm sorry if this sounds really harsh.

You share genetic material, but they're not your grandfather, they're not your cousins because you weren't raised around them.

You had a grandfather, hopefully you know, like you had these relationships, and I don't think that biological material changes that.

I understand, you know what I mean, and that's why.

And for me, I know, I am kind of in the further category of this.

I don't think it will give you much more information about your own life because you weren't raised around them, Like their personalities didn't actually impact your life.

It's really cool to find out stories about our grandparents and about what they did and different things like that.

But if you already have those people.

And you already have the memories of those people in your life and they had an influence on you, I don't think finding out about these you know, genetic contributors is going to change much.

This also occurs for donor children, like did the donor children want to know a huge amount about the history of I think that they would want to know their donor, but maybe not any further than that.

Put it this way, though, if my dad had had a kid when he was in his teens, and he had no idea about it.

Like there's you know, half brothers and sisters walking around and I found out.

In no way that make me feel differently about my dad, you know, in no way would that make me be like, oh my god, you know, how did you keep this from me?

I would like to know.

I think that that would be cool information.

And if we had a relationship or we had a friendship, great.

If that friendship or relationship doesn't evolve into anything, fine.

I think it's different if there's been a lie, like he didn't know, he had no clue that this happened, but he did ask.

He only told his own one child.

He didn't tell the others.

Yeah, but he only knew for a couple of months and then he passed away.

I don't think he really had the opportunity to which is what it sounds like as well.

I think whatever decision you make in this instance, I would be doing it after your auntie passes away, because that was clearly her wishes.

But at the end of the day, I don't think that any remaining siblings, children, cousins, whatever that you know, relationship link is, I don't think it's going to be received badly because it wasn't information that they could have possibly known.

I think it's very different when there is deceit around it, and I think that that information hits a lot differently.

I think, Oh, I think in these instances, do what you need to do for your own closure, but don't be doing it for other people, because it's probably not worth blowing up someone else's life unless you're actually going to get something out of this.

It's too I just also think that, like all I can think of is personally, if I had family members out there that I discovered from my dad or my grandpa having a family before we existed, I would want to know who they are.

I'd want to know what they're like, I'd want to know what you do with that information afterwards or what they do is different, Like once you've got information, information is power, then you can decide what you do with it.

But I would rather have the information and be able just to decide what to do with it than not have the information.

But you know what, like it's not that uncommon like our grandparents lived of a time when.

They spread their seat.

Well, no, they lived of a time whereas like if you had a child young, you were expected to adopt it out like there was such pressure around it, or if you had a child out of wedlock, like there were so many lies that were said within families in order to keep family respect and to keep up appearances in unity.

My stepmom growing up, so my dad remarried after my mom, and she found out when she was nineteen that her sister was actually her mom and her mom was actually her grandmother, and she was nineteen years old.

She just always thought that there was a really big age gap between her and her sister.

That it turns out her sister was her mum.

Wow, yeah, imagine how much that fucks you up when you're nineteen finding out that your sister's fifteen years older.

Also for the mom who's actually a mom to keep that a secret, then.

You want to know that stuff right.

Well, No, it ruined their relationships, like it ruined Like, yeah, that's very I don't think that those sort of situations you just kind of be like.

Oh my god, you know my sister you're own mom.

No, you're like, what the fuck?

Mom?

That ruins you.

You know, when it ruins your sense of identity, it ruins your relationships.

Like I think that that so much traumatic lies in that, and like, there's a lot, so much trauma.

But we spoke with Ryan John on an episode quite recently, and actually you should go back and listen to that, because he had kind of the best case scenario of finding out about.

His he was adopted.

He always he was adopted, and he did an ancestry test, same thing.

His biological father didn't know that he existed, but his biological mother had passed away, and so they now have a really beautiful relationship.

That is best case scenario of what could happen.

But yeah, I think the one determining factor that will kind of walk the line for every person here is how much emphasis you put on a genetic contribution to determine what makes up family.

If you think that it's a large part of what makes up family, you're probably going to want to find.

Out more information.

If you're like me and you don't think it has much relevance at all, you probably won't find it necessary to go and find out that information and would be more peaceful for you to.

Just let it go.

Yeah, and look, I mean, if you have more skin in the game with this, like please slide into the DMS, because this I think is such a subjective and interesting conversation and as the person wrote in the more perspectives that you can get on this to kind of make a decision I think is better.

Well, that is it from us, guys.

If you have a question, but ask gunkat slide on into the DMS and we will do our to answer it for you.

Or you can join the discussion group at Life Uncut Discussion Group and there's also a lot of anonymous questions that go down in there as well.

And you know the drill team Mum, do your dad te dog t friends and shared a love because we have love