Hey, guys, Bobby here, We're going to do a Brett James replay of an episode we did a few years ago, and so it's a remembering episode of Brett James.

A lot of people had messaged me going, hey, did you do a podcast with them?

And or they didn't know how to find it.

So we're just going to repost it back up at the top and just talk for a second before we get back into it.

This episode is remembering Brett James, who I'd done this podcast with him.

I'd worked with him a couple times after we had recently done.

The movie theater show.

I was Brett and a couple other writers, myself and from Nashville.

We had a bunch of accomplished songwriters playing songs and it was going into movie theaters all over the country.

Kind of an experimental deal.

But Brett was super kind, obviously super successful, very well loved.

He had released a handful of country songs before it really took on the I mean, so successful songwriting career that people know him for now.

Brett James dinged a plane crash.

According to reports, a small plane went down in Macon County near Franklin, North Carolina.

Around three pm on Thursday.

Brett was flying with his wife and his twenty eight year old daughter, who had just celebrated her birthday, and the plane crash and killed them.

Brett James was a Grammy Award winner and a member of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

He was credited on nearly five hundred songs recorded by artists from way different genres, massive hits.

He was a writer for Jesus Take the Will and Cowboy Casanova, for Carrie Underwood, When the Sun Goes Down, for Kenny Chesney, The Truth for Al Dean, so many more, you know, even songs for non country artists like Kelly Clarkson, the Backstreet Boys, bon Jovi, and others.

Brett James was fifty seven years old, so it had been three years or so since he was in with me.

He stopped by in twenty twenty two, and I had heard that Brett was super cool, super nice, but also like super cool, like perfect hair, leather jacket, but like once you met him, like you understood that's why you liked him, Like it wasn't some fake persona that he put on.

And he showed up in a motorcycle to my house, and he literally drove up boom boom boom by himself, parked right outside, and he came in and we talked about at the time he had twenty seven number ones hit six in one year back in two thousand and nine, and you're gonna hear all this, but we talked about how he went from medical school to pursuing a career as a solo country artist in the nineties, winning a Grammy.

So I want to take a look back and remember Brett James.

This is from episode three seventy.

Rest in Peace of Brett James, super super loved, wildly beloved in Nashville, and not just the songwriters but the artists.

You could see everybody posting very heart felt messages after Brett had passed away.

So here he is Brett James.

Hey, Brett's So when Mike reached out, he said, and what he often does with folks, they said, hey, what are the number ones that you know?

And you were like, hold on a minute, because I looked at your lesson number one you have twenty seven in counting.

Something like that.

I don't know.

I mean, what a what a life that you have so many massive songs that you get to forget some of them.

You know, it's you know, I just leave the listening to somebody else, So I don't I don't try to keep you know, I don't keep score.

What does encounting mean?

Is there anything right now that's.

I don't have anything climbing right now.

I my last number one.

Was knowing you you're a real loser.

Then I I gotta get busy.

We don't have.

Anything going for it at all.

You had a solo deal way before you turned into the great writer.

I had a miserably failed solo dealer.

But was it a miserably failed deal?

Though?

I mean, I would say otherwise, I mean to get a deal first of all?

Period incredibly different?

Sure, yeah, so.

Was that deal in Nashville based deal?

It was?

It was?

It was Arista Nashville based back in nineteen ninety three.

That's all was Arista, and obviously Arista as an imprint outside of just country music.

Sure, did you move to town and then pursue a like a decrobed be a singer?

Was out the idea?

That was the idea?

You know, it's it's a really long story, but we have all the time for it.

There you go, well, I was in medical school.

Just like all good country.

Song, you're in medical school.

I was to do what I was going to be at an er doc.

That was my kind of plan for life.

My dad and granddad were both docs, so that's kind of grew up in that world.

Wow.

Yeah, I just you know, that just seemed like the natural thing.

And and uh, my freshman year of med school in Oklahoma, where I'm from, I go and I see it.

You know, I went to college in Texas and I grew up in Oklahoma, so you know, I loved country music anyway.

But I went and saw Steve Warner concert one night.

Who's getting in the song right, A whole fame in a month.

I'm so excited because he's awesome.

I go see a Steve Warner show and kind of watched him one night, and he's an amazing player.

And I was like, Okay, I'll never play guitar like that, but I think the rest of it I might be able to do.

And so I kind of, you know, cause everybody that kind of has that moment, I'm sure you had your moment where you're like, this is what I can do.

I could be pretty good at it.

And you know.

That was kind of my little moment where maybe I should start writing songs in my free time.

And so that's what I did.

I started writing songs my free time.

And did you sing though?

In high school?

Like fifteen, were you singing?

You know, in church?

Yeah?

And I was in a group that even traveled from church, we sing in other churches.

So I grew up singing in church, and that's how I learned this thing.

So I kind of knew I could sing, But were you a celebrated singer at church?

When the group would go on with it'd be like this, this is a little breat little bread can sing.

Yeah, it was a little bit I was.

I was the guy who got most of the solos and stuff like that.

So yeah, a little bit I knew I could sort of, you know, I was singing at high school graduation and stuff like that, like a lot of kids in high school.

But I never you know where I'm from, you don't.

It's not on the list of things you think you can do for a job.

It's not really one of those things in high school they say, yeah, you should, you can do.

This, you know, right, But your grandfather's a doctor, your dad's doctor.

Those are pretty practical jobs as far as jobs that if you go to school and you study and you get the right grades and you perform, you get the job.

You get the job.

That's right.

This industry is not that no in any way whatsoever.

And so what did they say about when you finally expressed to your dad even, Hey, I think I want to not do medicine, right?

You know?

He was all about it, interestingly enough, because he was kind of a frustrated singer himself, and in you know, he'd been a doctor for a long time by that time, and it had kind of changed, the job description had changed.

He was kind of like one of these small town doctors who just you know, takes care of the grandparents and delivers the grand babies and everything in between.

And he and just medicine had changed.

So he was a little like, go chase your dream.

That's what he was about.

And that's what happened to me.

I came out here.

I'd written, like, you know, ten songs, and I put five of them.

I literally took, you know, my summer job money and paid for a little studio in Oklahoma City and sent it to my one contact in the music business.

Who was my friend Deb from college who was an intern in college radio promotion in ann Arbor.

So that was my you know, that was my big end.

But fortunately she gave it to her bab.

Her boss had been a big deal, and her boss says, well, I'd like to manage you.

When can you come to Nashville?

So let me get this straight.

So ann arbora Michigan.

Right?

Is that where?

Right?

That's where she was based.

Okay, that's not really that close to Nashville.

No, So who's her boss?

Her boss is I think still lives here.

A lady named Marien Nally and Rereen had been a big A and R person.

She actually started the at CO record label for Atlantic in New York.

But did you live here?

No?

But she'd actually had some contacts here and she'd done some really cool stuff with some bands from Nashville, like she discovered in Excess and she she had had some had a big career, and then gone back home, moved back home to ann Arbor, and so she was like, can I meet you in Nashville?

I want to introduce you some people.

And anyway, long story shorts.

I came in here on spring break of my sophomore year, and it was my third day.

We met with a couple labels and they kind of patted me on the head and you know, sent me back and from that demo, like they heard the demo, they met with you.

Yeah, mainly they met with me because they knew her.

You know, she got the meeting.

So we go in, we play the music and they're like, nice to meet you.

We have lunch, and you know, again sometime and then randomly we're in another guy's office that she knows, and I play some music for got him.

Cliff aldwritch she might know Cliff or his son Cliffy, And we're in his office and I play some songs for him and on this kid in a cowboy hat from Oklahoma, and he says, I think you're pretty good.

And this is the way Nashville kind of worked back then.

He literally got on his landline, called up Tim Dubois and said, Tim, I think I got a guy over here that's pretty good, and Tim said bring him over.

So literally ten minutes later, I'm in the you know, the president of Arista's office, Tim Dubois at the time, and they were crushing it, you know, Alan Jackson and Brooks and Dunn and all these acts.

And I'm sitting in his office playing playing music for him, And twenty minutes later he's like, mister, I've never told anybody this, but if you moved to Nashville, I'll give you a record deal.

Did you know how heavy it was the room?

Not really.

I don't think I had a clue how big a deal he was at the time.

You know, I learned later, did you get.

And I guess do you think your performance when per forming in that room for Tim Dagwaw do you feel like because you didn't really know, you were allowed to just perform as you normally would.

And if you did, actually knowing.

You were educated on the process, maybe you would have you'd been a little tight because.

Like I'm with the president of probably so exactly.

It was probably nice that I didn't kind of, you know, kind of gather how how important he was.

You got to deal that quick.

I mean you weren't even living here.

Right, It was nuts?

It was nuts.

He and but what was you know?

I said, you know, he offered me a deal, and I was like, well, I'm in med school.

I'm gonna have to think about it a little bit.

And he said, well, you're gonna have to move here if you want to do this, you know, And he gave me his, you know, home phone number because nobody even had cell phones back then, said here's my number, call me if you if you want to do this.

And what happened was I decided to take a year off med school.

I finished that year, I took my medical board exams all that stuff, and the day after I took my board exams, I moved to Nashville.

But I knew, like instinctively, I wasn't ready, you know, to do this to I just you know, I'd written ten songs and I just knew I wasn't ready.

So I got a job waiting tables and town Cafe, and so.

You moved here, but you didn't take I.

Didn't call him for nine months.

So you moved here, I did.

You went through with that part, the part that kind of is hard, but the part that's kind of cool.

He just died not to do yet.

Yeah, I just I just didn't think I was ready, you know.

I was like, I don't know who I am, I don't know what I'm doing.

I don't have a clue about this business.

And so I just started playing you know, open mic nights, just like everybody else.

And and I you know, got like I said, waited tables.

And fortunately, you know, it was the early nineties.

It was a little different town back then.

If you could like play three cords and sing and he at all, somebody'd give you a publishing deal.

So I got lucky that I got a publishing deal.

About three months later.

Tim de Ball never walked into a restaurant like that's.

He did not.

He did not, And so I called him, like, you know, finally I'd recorded some demos and kind of felt like I was comfortable playing him some new music and called him nine months later, said it had been a year since I met with him and had that meeting, and he I was like, I don't even know if you remember who I am, But a year ago you told me if i'd move here, you'd give me a deal, is said, I remember you.

So I came in and he signed me, and that's the way that got started.

So what happens then?

So you have a deal, put out a couple of songs.

I'm gonna have them here.

Failed miserably, Yes, just everything takes.

Fail because I can tell you from just a personal experience.

Like I had a show we were we had tried to pilot for it, the networks about to pick it up.

Then they changed all of the executives.

Sure, so they went, ah, this wasn't our show, so we're not going to go through with it.

Yeah.

So I can go, well, that failed miserably, or I can go, well, the reason I.

Never got a shot is because it's not It's not anybody's fault exactly, And you know, that whole thing just wasn't meant to be looking back, you know, I was trying.

I mean, we were doing radio tours.

We're going to see all the stations and they're all telling me they're going to play the records, and then they don't, you know, and that happened to lots of artists.

Were heartbroken when that deal didn't work out.

You know, it wasn't heartbroken.

It was more like, because it didn't, it kind of drug out.

It was about a five year period of it not working because put out a couple singles, they don't work.

Then you go back in and make another album, you change producers.

You're kind of you know how that that game works with artists.

You're just trying to figure it out.

And when it finally went away, it was literally five years later, and I was not heartbroken, but I was, honestly, I'd be embarrassed.

It was sort of like, you know, weren't you the guy that was supposed to you have your You had a ceed in Walmart for a minute, you know, And I remember being on music row and walking into like publishing Coveing just being like embarrassed, like kind of feeling like that's the guy that didn't work and he's washed up now, you know.

It was real, It was a real thing.

Was there ever a time that you purposefully said, well, I'm going to pivot because because you had to also decide not to pursue it anymore, even if you don't have a deal.

Like I've had friends who have had deals and they've gone away or they've lost it, or and they go, Okay, well I can do it independent, I can go sign somewhere else.

I cannot do it.

Some of them have become wonderful songwriters.

Sure, Like, what was that moment for you and how did you make that decision?

Well, it was a little different.

It was a little different pivot for me.

I was it was nineteen ninety nine, I'd been in Nashville for seven years and had lost my record deal and my publishing deal had gotten cut by like two thirds.

You know, when I was the early twenties, I'm making great money because everybody thought I was going to be Tim was telling everybody's gonna be Garth Brooks.

So I had this, you know, some some good money and all that stuff happening, and all of a sudden, it's nineteen ninety nine and I'm like, I think I'm almost thirty years old, and I have two little babies.

And I literally walked into Target one day and almost if I've ever had a panic attack, this was it.

I was standing in Target and I'm in the like the kid's clothing, and I see this little pair of, you know, one year old tennis shoes, and I looked at him.

I was like, and I'd really like to buy those for my kid, but I can't afford them.

And I'm not going to live like this.

And so I decided then and there that I was going to figure something out.

But all I'd ever done was go to med school and be a songwriter.

And so I literally snail mailed to med school a letter and said, you're only supposed to get one year off.

I've been out for seven Is there any chance I can get back in?

You know?

And the Dean Snail mailed me back and she said, well, you've been out a long time, but yes you can come back, but you got to start.

You have to repeat your sophomore year.

Oh wow.

And so I did that.

I went back to med school after being in town for seven years in nineteen ninety nine.

And you know, my ex wife now and kids stayed here in Nashville to sell the house.

So I just went back.

I moved in with my parents who lived there, and started back to med school, you know, at thirty as a sophomore, you know, just and it was it was a huge relief.

I was like, man, you know, I gave Nashville a shot.

But at least I know I'm going to be able to feed my kids, and that that's you know, at some point when you're dead, that's all that matters in the world, and that's all that mattered to me, you know.

And but what happened was God sort of had another plan.

I went back to med school in September first, still had a I had a year left on a publishing deal and they were really cool.

I said, well, just keep writing, maybe something will happen.

I go back to med school in September first, and Faith Hill cuts one of my songs on September fourth on her Breathe album, and then ended up getting thirty three cuts in the next nine months, Wow, and had five top ten singles.

So thirty three cuts of songs you'd already written mostly and some had written.

Somebody was writing in med school.

I had a dear friend who's a huge hit songwriter named Troy Vergess, and he was a kid like twenty three or four at the time, and he decided we started to get hot as a as kind of a writing team, and so he would come out to Oklahoma and we'd write songs out there.

So a lot of those were new songs that I'd go to Med school till two and he'd be waking up, you know, and then we'd write until we write songs, and I'd come I'd fly back into Nashville and we'd demo them up and that kind of stuff.

So you were hustling pretty hard.

Yeah, I was hustling pretty hard.

So what was the Faith Hill song?

It was a song called love the Sweet Thing.

It was not a single, but it was on that album that her Breathe record.

But that's probably I mean, really, when you think about the songs, I mean I could list every number one of the ten million you have, that's probably, when you look back, one of the most important songs to your entire career.

Oh.

Absolutely.

It kind of started opening doors and I kind of found the right publishing situation.

I worked with a girl named Kelly King who was my song plow and Mark Bright who but Kelly was my song plugger.

She's still around Nashville as well.

And uh, you know, it was just amazing because I was kind of her only writer, and so I'd write songs and she'd kind of get them out there, and you know, I'd be It was a it was a crazy time because I'd be literally studying for a pathologies and examine the library and I'd get a call on my flip phone, Hey, Brett, you know Tim McGrath, just cut tell your rider Martine and provide, just cut blessed or whatever.

And I was like, you know, there's there's nobody around a high five with I'd just kind of like do a little dance in the in the library.

And call it so is my assumption that you didn't finish medical school.

I didn't you and quit again, which was more years out of your belt exactly, and took exams and then I had an interesting conversation with that Dean.

No, that was an interesting So because the legal rules, we can only play five seconds of music at this point, but we're gonna hit five seconds hard, Mike, are you ready?

Okay?

This was your first number one.

This is Jess Andrews Who I Am.

That's a song that still today is played as what they call a recurrent because it was such a big song from those early two thousand years.

And that's your first number one.

It was the first number one.

Yeah, it was you know what a blessing it was?

It was.

It was awesome when you wrote the song.

Was it just one in a mix or did you go, Man, if somebody just gets that's always my question because some songs like you know, it's just another one.

We just wrote it and thought what about?

We thought that one was special.

Quite honestly, you know, I wrote that back to med school.

I wrote that in my parents' kitchen with Troy Urgis after I'd gone to class one day and we had heard there was a new artist, nam Jessic Anders, who was looking for a you know, a kind of a female anthem.

And I remember I spit out, like what about we wrote it just called who I Am and like I am And literally the first thing I said was Rosemary's granddaughter, and and Troy said spitting image of my father, and were like on our way and and uh, Troy's girlfriend at the time, who's now a Hall of Fame songwriter, Hillary Lindsay, she wasn't even writing, but she she was kind of enough to sing the demo for us on that song.

And so after Hillary saying it, we knew there was something special about it.

And then Jessica did an amazing jump.

Did you feel.

When you weren't focusing strictly on performance and your vocal and your just you know, your record deal, when you just focused on writing that you became a better writer.

Did you always feel like you were a really good ride?

Like when did you start to feel like, Okay, I'm actually competitive and if I focus this right, I'm great.

I don't think.

I don't think I still feel that way, Thank you.

I'm still working on that one.

But you know what, what Troy and I kind of what what what going back to med school did for me was free me up a lot.

You know.

It was sort of like a creative thing where it was, Okay, now my kids are gonna get fed.

I'm not I'm not just struggling trying to I'm not dying to try to get the next George Straight cut so that you know, I can feed the family anymore.

I have a job, I have a plan, and so I'm gonna kind of say, you know, screw it, you got to play loose, got to play loose.

I said, screw it, and let's just write what we love.

And that's really what happened that year.

I mean that, that's a bizarrely remarkable story.

That one you go to med school, you quit med school, you come, you get a deal, you go back to med school, you quit med school after and.

Got another record deal.

By the way, I signed another record deal with Arista again after that year of med school.

And it's like that one failed miserably too.

So here we go.

This is a wild story.

It's like you keep not the same, but you keep marrying your ex wife over and over again.

A different one.

It's like different different X wives, but you keep marrying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just looking at some of the accolades, like the big accolades, like you hit.

Yeah, it's six number ones in two thousand and nine.

And I had to look again three times to make sure I'm not reading all the numbers wrong because six and nine are upside down.

But I think you had six number ones in two thousand and nine.

I think I did.

That's I can't believe that, and I can because I'm looking at it.

But when I read it, I was like, am I looking at this right?

Six?

I turned the screen nine.

I want to roll through these quickly in this year of two thousand and nine, all six of these number ones.

Rodney Atkins, It's America, Kenny Chesney Out Last Night, Carrie Underwood, Cowboy, Casanova, Chris Young, the Man I want to be masking, Jason Aldean, The Truth, Rascal Flats, Summer Nights.

And I'm tired of reading them all there like that in a row.

So whenever you have this many number ones in a row, is it's so hard to write because everybody wants to write with you.

Oh that's never that's never a bad thing.

If everybody wants to write with it.

It's like, and I've had brief parts of my career where you're the shiny toy for a second, everybody wants to play with the shiny toy.

Sure, when you start to have this unparalleled success writing two thousand and nine, two thousand and eight, I mean, and even go backward, I mean, is it people constantly calling going, Hey, I just love to get on your calendar some point, even if it's six months from now.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's what happens.

And that's a fun place to be, you know, because you kind of get to pick and choose who you want to work with and get to, you know, you know, do do the days you love and not not do as many as of the days that you don't.

And it's it's a pretty cool, you know thing.

But you know, I always say that, you know, in the music business, it's like most businesses, it's you know, it's who's Brett James, Get me Brett James, Give me the next Brett James.

Who's Brett James.

Yeah, that's kind of the that's the arc of most careers, you know, and I think you have to kind of I always tell the writers that I work with.

I've had a publishing company for like fifteen years, so I get to be around young writers and I'm like, you're never as hot as you think you are when you're hot, and you're never as not when you're not, you know, And I think you kind of have to learn to have some thick skin and not to not to think you're so cool when things are working, so that when things aren't working, you don't get in the dumps either, you know.

Does that make sense?

Yeah?

And I tell new artists or just as an example, we had a group that was in a Cohen.

I was talking to them and they'd had some success on television, and it's like, when you get to be shiny for a second, make all the relationships that you can.

Yeah, make all the relationships to you because it's not going to change your life just to be cool for a second.

But the relationships that you make and that you keep will actually help you through your career for a long time.

So just don't go like I'm cool now, who wants to work with me?

It's like dig in.

Find your spots that you're finally allowed to get.

They're very important.

Make a few real strong connections, Like I was like with the opry, you're doing with the opry now?

Yeah, like really value.

That connection because maybe they wouldn't have got to look.

We don't ever get a look any of us until we have some sort of success.

Sure, but it's like, what do you grab onto and really develop out from this moment that you're successful?

Cool?

Whatever word you want to use there, And that's exactly and that's what I was telling them too.

It's like, you know, you're you feel everybody on social mediaelling you they love you.

Probably not that cool right now, but when you were, when you're not cool again, you're probably not that not cool again exactly because are a lot of people that still think you're awesome.

Sure, it's the never too high and never too low, you know what.

I try to My therapist though, tells me that I am on a straight line, regardless of all the time I've never hired, all never live, I never really.

Yeah, yeah, sometimes I'm going to get to interview you about that.

I don't go up or down, And I think it's I always want because you can't really experience like true happiness if you can't feel some sadness, right it's almost it's almost an equal scale, like if you can let yourself feel, you get to feel way down.

Or way up.

Sure, and so I have trouble feeling the sad I think probably from childhood trauma.

So I don't ever feel.

Good about I'm a lot that same way.

Yeah, I think I'm very much the same way.

I think you just kind of find your I think, and I think men are more likely to be that way than I'm a straight lined I don't go up.

Yeah, I'm kind of that same way, and I do think that in maybe especially actually on the songwriting side of things and the artist's side of things, you have to be that way because you know, there's always another single that you're either it's either winning or it's losing, or there's always another you know, cut that you're either getting or you're not getting, and you know you have to come there.

And in the songwriting side, it most of the time it's not Most of the time it's disappointment, you know, And so you have to kind of just just learn to to love what you do and not not feel too high too low.

I don't think because if I if I felt it all, I'd go crazy.

Oh, I mean, in a creative world, if you let the low's dominate you, because it's it's low eighty five to.

Ninety percent of the time.

If you're if you're succeeding, if you're if you're crushing it exactly.

If you're sixty, if you know, and I think you'll understand this probably better than even I do.

But it's like at times people will be like, man, you're really killing it.

But I'm like, if you guys had any idea how much how many no's I get, or or what I wanted and didn't get, or how glamorous it looks and it ain't.

You know, that's a lot of what we do.

Absolutely, it's getting beat up most of the.

Time, and it's getting back up when you get beat up, course, and staying up just long enough to finally get a bite the worms exactly, you know, finally bite the one exactly.

What was that in your mind?

What was the more well, I can't believe this just happened moment.

Was it that year two thousand and nine or was it one of the grammy with carried back a few years before that?

Man?

You know, all of those are great.

You know, I don't think we knew when Jesus Take the Wheels happened, and how you know what a big deal it was, you know, Quite honestly, I don't think it kind of hit me that, well, this is I'm gonna be talking about that song in twenty twenty two.

You know, seventeen years later, you still play that one.

If you play usually almost I'm almost always.

I feel like if I don't, it's somebody's gonna throw something at me.

But yeah, I think both us both those moments were great, and both those years were great.

Yeah, but if you had to, if we had to eliminate one, somebody shows up with the old men in black thing that goes, all right, I'm gonna make you forget one of them, which you know, I.

Got to be songwrit of your twice and that's that's a really fun cool thing because it's kind of based on more body of work than just one song, you know, And I think that was Those Those are pretty special trophies to me.

Where do you have the Grammy at your house?

It's in my office.

Actually, yeah, it's my office.

Do you pet it?

I kiss it?

I do not.

I do not.

I wish I had more than one let's put it that way.

But you know there's people that have lots.

I got to work at Alison Kraus's house the other day with her son, and you know Alison, you know, she's so sweet.

She just brings his coffee.

You know, I'm just like someone with twenty eight Grammy's just gave me coffee.

And that's That's just a cool thing.

What is it for you?

You go, Wow, this is cool where most people maybe wouldn't think that.

You think it's the coolest thing.

And now I give you an example as you think about the answer, because it's a tough one.

I got on an airplane once and Barry Switzer was on and from Arkansas and he was a played at Arkansas, you know, coach the Cowboys, coach Oklahoma, and I was like, just the freaking coolest thing ever.

And I would tell my friends that'd be like, I don't I don't really fall sports.

I don't care right that kind of thing.

But I'm like, this is so cool and that's not even something that I like earned or deserve.

I interviewed Dan Patrick am I Sports show the other day and I'm like, this is the coolest thing.

And I tell people like, yeah, I don't know, but to me that's like legit, Like that's the coolest thing.

What for you?

Who is it or what happened where You're like, this is like different world and never thought i'd be here, But most people probably won't even think it's as coolest I do.

Well, it's funny because the one that pops in my head is not about a superstar.

You know, it's a because you know, like you said, I've gotten to be around Garth and Sting and some pretty you know Taylor and people like that.

He's just like that's just insane, you know, you'd even think about it.

Like literally, I'm at the NSCA, I think two weeks ago, and I hadn't I was Taylor's you know, producer when she was like thirteen, you know, you know, before she came back and had their success, and and I'm walking down the back hall and Taylor just steps out of her saying and sees me.

She's like Brett, you know, it's like old home with you know, Taylor Swift, which is pretty crazy because I have a daughter who worships everything everything Taylor Swift.

But for me, the moment that strikes me, he's like, you know, I'm convinced that whoever your superstar superhero was when you're like in fourth or fifth grade, is that person forever.

And for me, it's a Christian singer named Russ Taff and you probably never heard of him, but he was a big deal around like in Christian music.

And I'll never forget the only time I ever got superstarstruck I was I was writing a song with Marcus Hummon at his house in like the nineties, and I didn't know Russ Taff was his next door neighbor, or I would have stalked him.

And so I'm sitting there with Marcus when we're writing a song and Russ Taff walks in.

They're best friends.

He goes, hey, your dog's in the yard again.

He's like, you got any coffee made?

You know, kind of kind of like that, and Mark say, he's like this coffee in the kitchen and Russ, this is Brett And I literally just cried.

He didn't know what I'm doing.

It's like a Tuesday afternoon.

Who was And I literally tears just came to my eyes And all I could say was like, you're my hero, you know?

And I think that it's those moments that kind of you know, catch you off guarden and that make me go, wow, I can't believe I've gotten to do this.

Yeah, that stuff to me, it's like what a Like that's for example, I get to go and I'm a big Arkansas guy.

Grew up in Arkansas.

We didn't have a lot of money, and so I maybe would get to go to one game a year.

But now it's like when I get to go back and even just get to go in the locker room, I'm just like, I cannot believe.

This isn't cool.

But my friend's like, but you get to like it doesn't matter all that other stuff I do all the time.

Like this to me is like there's a lot of value in this because when I was nine, this is what I dreamed of was being here at this place looking at these lockers, and for you it was Russtaft.

Well and very Swiss.

Would be it for me too.

I mean, I grew up in the in the seventies in Oklahoma.

Man, there's nothing nothing, There was nothing bigger than Barry Switzer a sports guy.

Huge, Yeah, what what what's your sport and team?

And I'm a college football free you know.

That's really what I come back to as always college football.

Baylor and I went to Baylor undergrad and went to O you two, and I grew up in Oklahoma, So Baylor, I know you were my two two main teams.

But I've adopted a few mothers.

Might got a son at Auburn now, so I'm rooting for Auburn.

And but yeah, Baylor, know you.

Yeah, I see you drove up on a motorcycle.

I did, and I'm scared to death of a lot of things, including motorcycles.

You have to watch out for so many things when riding a motorcycle.

Yes, and there and so many of those things are idiots.

Oh and there's an unlimited amount of idiots.

Yeah, it's it's I just pretend like every car is gonna kill me.

That's the way I ride a motorcycle.

Literally, I just as I'm driving, I'm playing this game like like that one's gonna swerve into me, and this one's gonna swear and the person behind me is not going to know that I'm turning.

So I just need to expect that all the time.

I mean, I think, and I think, you know, and I ride it around town at forty miles an hour.

I don't I don't do anything crazy on a motorcycle, but I like to put around town.

But you know that could be the most dangerous time because you're right, there's so many stupid people.

It's it's all the time.

Everybody's on their phones now too, which is worse.

You know, you know what the phones.

That's a that's a whole new last five year wrinkle, isn't it right?

When did you start riding a motorcycle.

About ten or twelve years ago something like that?

Yeah, I bet the phones made it a lot more dangerous.

Yeah, they have for sure, for sure.

For sure you have the radio?

Do you each o the radio?

Real out?

I don't turn about, and you got to have it that lad to hear it while you're riding.

But it's also like when you're slowing down, there should almost be a that the volume turns itself down automatically.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Isn't that?

Because I don't know because you pull up next to mo.

I don't turn my radio on everyone I ride because I like to hear the other car that's about to swerve into me and kill me.

But as they all will and I'm planning on it right, but yeah, I don't.

I don't turn it up at all.

I want to play.

I was looking through your entire catalog here and I was trying to find the song because you have again so many.

The one that I.

Love, I think the most is one of your more recent number ones.

Is that Kenny Chesney knowing you because I love Emo Kenny.

I'm not really big into beach Kenny because I don't like the beach that much.

I grew up in Arkansas, so I know I don't have this affinity for the beach and we never went on vacation, so I never went to the beach.

I never thought.

I never heard it called Emo Kenny, but I get it.

My favorite Kenny is Emo Kenny when he's singing sad songs or slow songs.

Yeah, and so knowing you, Mike, if you're play some of this, but dude, it all.

Damn was good.

And how do you get a song to Kenny?

Well, I'm lucky because I know Kenny pretty well.

I just texted to him, you know, I just texted to his phone and he just says yes or no.

If you send Kenny ten songs, how many yes?

His nos or and no responses.

Oh wow.

Well Kenny never says no.

It's always a no response, like he never says I don't like that one, and I kind of I love that about him.

You just don't get anything bad.

You know, you never go You never hear that that totally sucks.

Would you leave me alone?

That's good that he doesn't do that.

It's usually no response and out of you know, I would say it's one out of twenty really that you get Yeah, I'm into that or I'm not into that.

But Kenny has He's such a song guy.

He texted me day before yesterday about a song that I'd played for him seven or eight years ago, and he's like, you still have that version?

That's a duet and blah blah blah blah blah.

He never forgets a song.

It's incredible.

And did you still have the version?

I did?

And had anyone cut it?

Nobody's cut it, so I'm hoping he will.

Yeah, Caitlyn Smith sing though, do wet on it.

It's amazing.

That'll sell it on the fence.

That'll sell it pretty good.

Oldest song that was ever cut.

Meaning you mentioned that six or seven years you wrote a song X amount of years later it finally gets cut and becomes a hit.

What comes to your mind?

There?

The Truth pops into my head.

We had written I wrote that with Ashley Monroe, who I just love too.

We're actually getting ready to go to Brazil together the writing trip.

Saw her three four days ago.

Oh did you?

Yeah?

We had I love her, She's the best, yeah, And I've known her since she was fifteen.

Somehow.

I started working on her when she was really young, and I think we wrote that song when she was about sixteen or seventeen in my living room.

And uh, but you know, the Truth is kind of a weird song.

You don't really really know what it's about until the very end of the song, the last two lines, which is, you know, breaks every songwriting rule there is.

And so we wrote it and just said on shelves, and we just thought it was never going to pop up, you know, And all of a sudden, you know, like six or seven years later, I don't even know how I was.

Gonna ask, how does this?

I don't know long enough to get around no clue.

I have no idea how Jason ever heard that song, but I'm glad he did.

And he's sure, he sure crushed it.

And there was another one called You Saved Me.

There was a Kenny song that just got happened in the same kind of deal.

It was probably ten years old.

What's in Brazil?

You're going to going to a writing camp to write Brazilian music in Portuguese?

Of course we are.

Why wouldn't we be doing?

You know, I thought you would go to Brazil to write country music song for the country music people who wanted to fly to Brazil.

But I'm way wrong on that.

So yeah, what how and what why?

It's a really long story.

But we both write work with a company called Warner Chapel here in town, big publisher, and they have offices all over the world.

And you know, I get this email one day, Hey, do you want to go to South Paulo to write this new kind of Brazilian music that is apparently huge?

Apparently this new genre of Brazilian music is taking over the world or something.

And it's gonna be a little camp with like five Nashville Riders and and studios, and you're gonna it's all gonna be in Portuguese and you're gonna have translators.

Wow, I have no idea we're getting into.

But so you haven't done this yet.

I haven't done it yet.

We're leaving a We're leaving Sunday, actually, Ashley Monroe, Liz Rose, me and a couple other people are gonna go down.

Because I's see what happens.

Does it excite you a lot?

Are you like it's just it's just you know, I look at it like it's a cultural experience.

I've never been to Brazil and I've you know, don't know a thing about the music.

But I'm gonna do a lot of I'm gonna educate myself before Sunday.

Hopefully.

Are you doing Rosetta Stone Portuguese?

I am not at all knows I am not.

I'm doing dual lingo frends right now.

I'm trying to learn.

Friends.

We had Dan Huff, and we've talked to Dan a couple of times, and you know, he would talk about how he'd be at an airport and hear a song like I guess I dang, I really like that guitar part, and later he'd later realized I was him who played it.

So you've had five hundred plus songs cut you ever hear a song and not realize that it was yours.

I have.

I did it recently.

I was with Drew Green, an artists that I love and work with read he was actually playing a wedding and we're at this wedding somewhere in nowhere.

They'd want they'd won the you know, the one they'd won a contest, and so Drew's up there singing and I heard this song.

I was like, man, I kind of like that, I kind of you know, I think it's pretty cool, and somehow it was familiar and it ended up being a Larry Fleet song that I'd written just a few months ago, and I was like, oh, that's why that's.

You spent a bunch of years on the board for the CMAS.

So I have a heart hitting question here is why have I been black bald so long to be the host of the CMAS.

You know, we've had discussions about you and it just never goes the right way.

I have no idea, and I'm not on that board anymore now.

Yeah, I don't know have they ever?

Have they talked to you about it?

Because all I hear like through certain channels you've been blackballed And I can't get down to the bottom.

I don't can't believe that.

Listen, I've had some pretty prominent folks there tell me off.

You said, like, you know, there's the systems holding you down, and they won't exactly tell me who the system is.

Is it you on the spot?

Yeah?

No, you know it's funny, Mane may is like, I have been on the board for a long time, and I hear so many things about that board, and yet they're all you know them all, they're all the sweetest people.

Exactly who do I know?

Somebody?

Right, I don't know, I don't know.

I'm sure that's going to happen.

Something has to happen somewhere.

You just send me a little carrier pigeon and you let me know.

I'm going to get to the bottom.

I'm going to get to the bottom of desk.

When you're at the Grammys, did you get to sit by anybody cool?

Yes?

Well the one time I ever got nominated for the big like to get in the big room was just amazing.

That was for Jesus take to will We won country song, but we were up for a real song, and you know we got to sit like on the fifth row and I was like in front of John Mayer and behind John Legend, and you know it was pretty heavy stuff, you know, and I would literally like breaks.

I would just get up and act like I was just stretching my legs and just just to walk around my section just to like just to see people.

You know what I'm saying, You're everyone right now.

You're I literally like, you know, you're not staring at them, but you're getting to walk past, you know.

I mean, I remember justin Timberlake played twice that nine and stuff like that.

You're just like, Okay, I just gotta I just gotta walk around a little bit, just to just to see these people.

Did you prepare a speech?

No, you didn't, even just a case.

I didn't.

I'm not a preparer, and I knew, honestly.

I wrote that song with Hillary Lindsay and Gordy Sampson, and I knew I'd have to let Hillary do the talking anyway, so it was all good.

You say you're not a preparer, then let me put this into your everyday practical life, when your professional practical life, do you prepare notes for songs and ideas that you have at this point?

Absolutely not as much as I should And I think that's one.

I think that's that's a lesson for all songwriters that I need to do better at because you get old and you get lazy.

You know.

I always I keep titles and concepts and you know, I'm always putting them on my phone.

But the really great writers, the ones that everybody wants to write with, are the ones that write walk in with something that's great and it's you know, got a verse or got it's got, it's got, it's got some real form to it.

And I can just say that that the young writers that I know that are being super successful in Nashville right now, they walk in the rooms really prepared, and I think that's I think that's half the battle.

Do you ever accidentally rewrite or have the same melody of a previous song of yours because it is your brain that had it initially?

Does it ever come up again?

You're like, oh, that I already do, because you have so I said five hundred it's been cut.

But I've written over four.

That's what I'm saying, that's just been cut.

It's kind of impossible not to to be honest with you, especially because it's you know, but what what what you try to do, having done it as long as I've been doing, is try to find new lanes, you know, new lanes that make your brain go different places so you're not falling into the same you know, melodies that that you have written before, and you know, so I think that's the sort of the challenge I have, you know, after you've written a lot.

So you're this event we're talking about specifically, but just when you go when you play a show with great songwriters and you're showcasing the songs that have become hits for you and you get four?

What four do you play more than not?

Are you?

What are your mount rushmore of songs that you play when you play.

I almost always do Out Last Night because it's got a fun story to it, and that's you know, you know those shows, those stories are you know, those songs are just as much about the stories.

What's the story?

Uh?

The stories Out last Night was you know, it started in my kitchen.

I was standing in my kitchen on Christmas Eve and my cell phone rang and you know, the voice on the other end of the line, which was Kenny, was like, hey man, you know, what are you doing day after tomorrow?

You know, and so I had, you know, four children under the age of twelve at the time, you know, and it's Christmas Eve, you know, so the joke is well, of course, I said, well nothing man, you know what you got in mind?

Because and he said, why don't we go down the islands and write some songs?

And so we did, you know, because those four children know what pays for Christmas presents around my house.

I ended up in you know, the Islands on December twenty sixth, and Kenny and I have you know, we have we always have a good time together.

In this particular night, we made a night of it, you know.

And so I woke up the next morning and I was I woke up way before he did.

I remember I just playing guitar and sipping coffee, and a couple hours later, the sliding glass door to his bedroom, you know, he kind of sticks his head out and he's like, Brett, we went out last night, and I said, yeah, we did, and that's the song we had to write today.

So that's how kind of out.

We kind of wrote it about the night before a little bit, and we actually wrote two number ones that day.

We wrote a song called Reality that afternoon.

Same day same day, it was you guys should go out more greatest.

I know, Kenny, if you're listening act you need to go out more and do this again.

Okay, that's song number one.

What's song number two?

I almost always play mister Noah All by Kelly Clarkson just because it's fun to sing and you know, no one.

Maybe people don't expect you to sing.

Anarks me to sing at Kelly Clay you wrote.

I mean, I guess that's it.

People don't expect you to have written a Kelly Clarkson songs because you're a massive country music songwriter.

I guess.

So that's probably part of the reason I played it is because you never know there's there may be somebody in that audience.

It's not a coutry music fan, but they might have listened to Kelly Clarkson on pop radio and so and it's just a fun really, you know, it's such a weird song to sing because you know, you write these songs as a middle aged dude and then you're singing I Am Rosemary's Granddaughter in front of strangers, or you know, mister Noah All in front of strangers.

But it's still fun, you know, and it's fun to kind of be in character for that one and play that.

I almost always play the truth, just because I do love that song.

That's one of my one I'm most proud of.

And then I almost always and when Jesus Take the Wheels, those are the four.

That's probably about about the four.

Can you hit that when you're singing Jesus?

Same?

Not in her key?

I can't gotta change the key.

Yes, it's fun.

Yeah, Kerry songs are wow.

You know, you know, they're they're hard to they're hard to do live, you know, but they're also really fun and challenging.

Stefano and I wrote one with her together called the Something in the Water that's always really fun.

I heard him, no, he played that next to me once and then I just went, I'm gonna tap out of this round and he had like.

A drum under his foot.

Yeah, And it came to me there and I had this little funny comedy song I was and I was like, all.

Right, let's just go ahead and skip me and go over and I was just like, do you expect anyone to play after that?

No one likes?

And why what's the junctaposition?

In Chris and me.

I'm the worst.

I'm there for the last.

You were so not.

I'm just there to.

Make people all different kind of entertainment.

My friend, which song came back to you so different sonically than you expected that we would know, like you write it, you know, so we'll just John Smith has cut the song.

I thought, it's really cool.

John spits a great artist.

They're probably gonna and you get it back and you're like, wow, that is not my interpretation, but it's amazing.

What is that?

You know?

It's It's funny mentioned that when when the first time I heard Jessica Andrews version of of Who I Am?

It was so different, and I had such demo love for Hilary Lindsay's demo that first time I heard it.

I heard it on the radio and I was like, I don't know, I don't know if that's I don't know if they did that right.

Of course, it's Byron Gallimore.

He's a freaking genius, so of course they did it right, you know.

But the first time I heard that song, I was I was kind of like just disappointed or just confused.

I was like, I don't know if this is going to work now, And sure enough.

It did, Sure enough, it did.

Yeah.

Uh spoiler alert, I was very wrong about Yeah, yeah, yeah that did.

Okay, look, let me promo the event again.

It's a nonprofit aerial recovery, which is a really that's great, that's you know, there's so much there that these men and women invest so much of their time in life to have the skill set that it's like they come out of the military and then what did how do they use it now?

Yeah, you know, and they also do a lot of other things.

They have They have a center, it's it's there.

The two people that are head of it.

One girl's named Brittany Murphy.

She's from Nashville and she's an amazingly successful real estate developer.

So she also has an island in the bbis that is turned into like a therapy center and they take you know, the one.

That's just one of the things they do is do all the rescue missions.

The other thing they do is a lot of recovery for uh, you know, guys who are getting out of the military not knowing what to do next, or they're depressed or suicidal or whatever, and they go down to this island and have counselors and all this stuff and kind of you know, lots of training for these guys, and it's just amazing what they're doing.

I'm I'm all in on this one.

It's cool.

November tenth, six thirty pm at the Bell Tower in Nashville and there's a cocktail reception.

It says heavy or darbs.

I don't know the difference the trades, just.

Yeah, they got some put lead balls in.

Yeah, I think.

Listen.

I hope people go check it out.

But mostly I hope people can appreciate just your story.

I mean, it's the if this isn't the story of how you never really know and you have the liberty to pivot and change engine figure it out.

I don't know what is because I mean that's what you did.

We'll all learning, still still trying to pivot and change, you know.

I think that's an ongoing, ongoing thing for all of us.

At Brett James songs, Well, I only change because people tell me I suck at one thing.

I've never changed on purpose.

I only change because it's like, you ain't good at this anymore, and I'm like, God.

That's usually that.

I think the ticket for me has been finding out that I suck at something soon enough, you know, not wasting so much more time.

I waste a lot of time.

And I'll be honest with you to me too at Brett James songs.

It's Brett.

It's been a pleasure man.

Thank you, Bob.

I really appreciate the time, and congrats on everything.

I mean, your career is just insane.

I want to flip the switch sometime and do this interview with you.

Do you do you do a podcast?

You have a podcast?

Okay, all right, well we're just gonna interview and at your house with no microphone.

That's it.

Just really no one.

Brett.

Good to see you, and thank you for the time.

And I hope, I hope this event goes wonderfully.

And I don't know.

If I see on the on the street, I'll block for you.

If I'm a car and I see you driving, I'm gonna get beside sure nobody gets.

Please, thank you.

I need it, alright, thanks back, thank you.

Mhmm.