What's going on with this thing?

Hello, and welcome to the show.

And Martin Wills your host, and a pretty funny story behind the scenes here.

I was in the wrong stream wondering where everyone else was, but made it here.

We are starting the show here tonight.

My guest is Ed Wilson.

We had a gentleman named Seth.

He couldn't make it.

He's actually sick.

A lot of people are having this flu.

I guess he has it.

But anyway, just to see up on the screen right now, this is a blog from Charles Lear.

By the way, I think I counted just under one hundred and seventy blogs that Charles has done on our website, so check that out.

They're all historic and they're great ones.

Here nineteen seventy six encounter report from Spain.

That's this week's blog.

And if you want to listen to the audio blogs, they are on our podcast feed.

You can get that anywhere.

You can get our podcast anywhere as well, on anywhere you can find podcasts.

You should be able to just look up podcast UFO and it should pop right up.

And so if you.

Wanted a commercial free experience, you can support us for just two dollars or more a month at Patreon and that links right on our website, which is PODCASTUFO dot com.

Real excited about tonight's guest.

We have something kind of not, kind of similar.

We are cut from the same cloth in many ways.

He is a antique and rare document books and documents.

He's a dealer, and he's like myself out there always looking.

And interested in history.

That's one of the things I love about the connection of antiques and the historic connections.

As some of you have watched on this show.

Last week, I had a Civil War story with Linda Zimmerman that was fascinating.

So I love history and the gentleman Ed Wilson, like I say, he's a book and a rare book and document dealer, and so we had a lot to talk about.

They had nothing to do with UFOs, but he kind of stumbled across a big archive that had something to do with a very important person at NASA, which came up at an auction and he bought it and found some many surprises.

We were going to be talking about all that, and so he's like myself.

I was not a UFO guy.

I was in the antique and art business.

Auction business, and I was working at an auction gallery and I just happened to sit in a hot tub when something flew over me changed my life.

And here I am now still doing antiques and art.

I just finishing a big appraisal today.

I still do that type of work, but this UFO thing is kind of a major part of my life.

Like I said, it changed everything when I had my sighting back then, because I knew there was something.

You know, as you get if you've been doing what I've been doing a long time, and that's inspecting antiques in art to make sure you know things are you know, on the level they're not a fraudulent document.

You're always looking to see, you know, if there's one document in a in a pile that's a fake, then you have to check each one very carefully because you know, if there's one, there's usually more type of thing, and it's guilty to approve an innocent.

So we have this type of eye when you're doing what we do, that you're really inspecting things and you're really you know, you're really critical of something.

And so he and I have that in common and we could.

I should do a podcast with him.

I still have my antiqu Auction Forum podcast.

I should do a podcast separately with them on that alone, just talking about running out there and chasing these beautiful historic things and we're only caretakers of these things and they get passed along to the next generation, hopefully and not get thrown in a dumpster.

Sometimes they do, and you know that happens a lot with all kinds of things.

But anyway, I'm rambling here and I'm ready to bring my guests in.

Ed Wilson, thank you.

And you know, I look at the background behind you, and yes, we had definitely kept from the same cloth.

You know, I didn't know your background.

I am shocked.

I'm so pleased.

And you're in the auction business.

I tell you what.

During COVID I was having withdrawals.

Okay, oh yeah, and with draws.

It was.

It was a serious mental condition, just one to add to all the other ones that I already have.

But well, let me tell you something.

I did a podcast on my antique auction podcasts and I went all around the country to all these major auction houses and I can't remember who it was in Ohio and he said, collectors have to collect.

They'll figure out a way, they'll figure out away, We'll all figure out away.

And and he did you know they did?

There was all these just online auctions for a.

While, and you know, you get that bug.

You just yeah, you know exactly what you're talking about.

And and your life's on the line when you spend a lot of money on something, as you said, you have to hit you have to hit these things from every direction you possibly can to make sure the authenticity of it.

I'm a rare book and document dealer and it's you know, paper is my specialty.

And again the thrill of saving saving items from the dumpster that end up in museums.

That's what I've been doing.

And yeah, very rewarding.

It is very.

Lay out, just a little bit here of what I've gotten, what we've started, and then we'll get back into the actual books and the evidence.

And I think you'll really like this because I do approach this whole thing just as you said, from the scientific viewpoint, because there's a lot on the line.

As you said, my name is Ed Wilson, and I do have a different background from most UFO researchers today.

Originally I was a historian and rare book and document dealer.

But that was only until I rediscovered what is the most important piece of NASA photography ever.

It's called the Simpkinson NASA UFO.

The only reason it survived is because NASA's original Space Task Group Chief Engineer Scott Simpkinson preserved it in his personal archive, where it stayed untouched in the family basement since nineteen ninety six.

When I first saw it, one thing became obvious immediately.

It's an indisputable flying saucer.

It is a shocking image, so shocking I began cross checking it against NASA's own material.

What I found was this Martin the lithograph wasn't an isolated incident.

The same object shows up again in NASA's official Gemini eleven Hasselblad photographs, and also in one of the maur camera photographs, and again in the never seen sixteen thousand frame RCAD fifteen mission film I recovered from the National Archives.

When you lie all of them up, the secret lithograph, the public NASA photos, the hidden Narcia camera footage, the objects match across all of them.

They're different angles and different lighting and different cameras, but it's the same craft.

We're not dealing with a single frame.

We're dealing with the documented sequence of events.

NASA never intended the publicacy.

This isn't folklore, This isn't a story someone told somebody.

This is forensic archival, scientific evidence.

We have NASA's astronaut voice transcripts reporting weird craft in real time.

We have NASA's technical debriefings where the astronauts deny seeing any anomalies except one, the exact occurred during the D fifteen battery failure.

We have a six minute communications gap, a classic signature marker in NASA anomylous events.

We have a perfect and disputable cloud pattern match between the lithograph and NASA's own frame S sixty six five four five eighty five, a scientifically verifiable match that proves the lithograph and originated from a real Gemini eleven photograph.

Your own eyes will not lie to you.

We have timestaff artifacts on the RCA film that indicate missing digital frames, frames that should exist but don't.

And this is incredible, and you can read it for yourself, word for word, in NASA's own Johnson Space Center Oral History, the testimony from NASA's legendary photographic director Richard Underwood.

In his official oral history interview, he states clearly that no one outside a small security clear group has ever seen a first generation NASA photograph.

Every image the public has ever seen, every image researchers I've ever seen, every image you've ever seen in Congress too, is from a third generation negatives.

I want you to understand what that means.

It's really important here.

It means we have never ever seen the original NASA negatives.

So when you have all this up together, it comes out that you have a lost lithograph.

You have matching Hasselblab photo.

You have the sixteen thousand frames of hidden Narsia footage.

You have the astronaut transcripts, you have the cloud pattern verification, the missing timestamps, the National Archives recovery, and the CIA MPIC duplication systems.

We now know we're in operation.

You have something NASA can't explain away anymore.

The craft in these frames are not lights, they are not lens flares, they are not reflections.

They are structured objects photographed by NASA across multiple camera systems in nineteen sixty six.

It's all one, one hundred percent NASA imagery.

Don't take my word for it.

Follow the NASA trail and believe your own eyes.

The American public deserves transparency, and Martin, that's why I'm here today.

And oh god, you found some of the Yeah, there you go, that's some of that old RCA footage.

Fantastic.

I'm glad that Seth sent that to you.

Seth, my partner is unable to be here today.

He's sick with that flu.

So I'm glad he managed to get these films over to you.

You can say, so, what are we looking at right now?

You're looking as you're looking at the D fifteen experiment that was the very first television camera that ever went into space.

What happens is this when NASA was going up there.

Of course, after nineteen sixty five, the CIA took over control of all of NASA's footage.

Nothing was ever released from NASA again.

So when NASA goes to these events and they tell you in cognisance say we have absolutely no evidence of anything, they're telling the truth.

Because my next book is coming out here next month, and it will detail the facts that show that all the footage into the well, all kinds of documents from the nineteen fifty six through nineteen fifty eight, ht Auto Tech CI released files in the CIA reading room show exactly how they did it and how they made lithographs, and what they are is sanitized briefing documents and every ounce of footage that has to put out was sent back to them from the CIA National Photographic Interpretation Center starting in nineteen fifty six.

So you're saying they basically scrubbed and they've worked on.

The negative CIA documentation for you, I don't have it here.

It's the next book, and it's also included, it will be included to Congress.

All these items that you've seen today, the first two books that I have to you have been sent to Congress.

In fact, they've also been sent to President Trump.

So I want to make sure that everybody's aware that this is something that is being examined right now.

The conclusive evidence that's going to be life shattering, I think, will be the CIA documentation that will come out next month.

But what you're looking at there, guys, is this.

This is called the D fifteen, a night vision experiment.

It's called an orthocon tube, but it's really just the TV camera and it's the very first one in space.

When you get into the book, you'll see I have the details of everything.

What I have gone through is I've gone through things like the mission report.

So here's what you're going to find in the book and how you can follow the trail and see that we're not messing around.

There you go, that's from the first book.

There.

That's the Gemini eleven mission report.

If you read on it right there.

And I know you can't write now, but I'll just explain it to you.

This thing was secret for twelve years.

This was secret for twelve years, says right there, Do not release it.

It's secret information.

So it wasn't released until nineteen seventy eight.

By then, nobody was interested in following it through except old auctioneers like you and me, right, So we went into it.

Here's one of the pictures that I got at the auction in there.

Look at that, guys.

That is from nineteen fifty eight.

That is the very first Mercury space capsule that was ever launched in this space.

It was called the Big John launch.

And if you look right in the center, you'll see a lovely young lady and right next to her is a chubby, kind of chubby like me.

That's Scott Simpkinson, and I hope you guys aren't driving in a car.

If you're driving in a car, you'll want to look at these things.

You can go to Amazon and these pictures are presented on the cover.

I wanted to make sure that everybody you don't have to buy the book to see the pictures.

I've got good images on the front and back cover of all my books.

This is not about selling books.

This is about presenting evidence to you guys.

But when you get on there, you just look at Simpkinson.

Everybody knows Bart Simpson, Okay, so don't think of Bart Simpson, but it's Simkinson, Simpkai, n Simpkinson.

And if you just enter Simpkinson, it's selling everywhere worldwide.

But you can see the pictures.

The Amazon's really good because they show you the front and the back cover.

As I said, you can see on the back cover the lovely picture from nineteen fifty eight.

But you also see in the bottom there.

Do you see what those are?

Those are color coded Yeah, those are color coded images of the UFO.

Okay, those color coded images are part of an eighty page report.

I spent five thousand dollars and this is five thousand dollars.

When five thousand dollars well, when you were paying that to Burger King, whoppers were five dollars, right, So that's when I spent five thousand dollars from a reputable Chicago based operation.

They did an eighty page analysis and this is all in the back of the first book.

The first book, I have five scientists that have contributed to this and undoctored everything that they said, and in their analysis, good or bad, is in the book for you to read for yourself.

They were kind enough to allow me to put it.

In the first What are we looking at right here there?

You know, that's the actual lithograph.

That's a six by nine inch lithograph.

That was the very last page of the Gemini eleven binder I bought.

There were thirty one binders altogether.

I bought the binders for the entire Mercury, the entire Gemini, and the entire Apollo mission.

Now.

Simpkinson was started in nineteen forty three with NAKA, the National not its civilian association or authority.

It's really the army out that he started out doing propellers in nineteen forty three for them during World War two, and then he quickly was switched over to going to Wallas Island and developing the V two rockets.

So from the very outset after he got out of college, he was already deeply steeped in NACA, which the CIA records.

Now Naco was deeply steeped in with the CIA two.

So these people were as all classified doctrine classified contacts from way back.

And just to give you an idea of what else you'll find in this book too, and this is important, I spoke with Richard oh gee, I can't remember his name.

He formed a narcap and everyone might be for you.

Yes, Richard Haynes, Yes, Richard Haynes.

Richard he contributed in the back of the book is a I think it's like a forty page article that he wrote on a Chilean UFO that looks remarkably similar to the UFO that I discovered in this lithograph.

And he was kind enough to let me allow me to use that in the book, because I want people to see how you do a scientific analysis.

All my analysis are scientific.

This is not hearsay, this is not anything else.

There's documents in there that you can read for yourself.

Okay, So so Ed, let me just you know, I want to ask you some questions as we're going along here.

I know you could just talk about this for three hours, but you know straight.

I don't have that time.

But let me just ask you to look at there because this I wanted to tell you this last week I was on I have a fellow researcher who works with me, and that is a common positive three different photos, and he knows you, and he said you're absolutely excellent.

He says, you're a wonderful guy.

And I can tell already you are.

But see if you recognize his name.

He's worked with Gary Nolan.

I think on his film.

His name's Mark Bravent.

Do you remember MARKI well, he's familiar with you.

But what we have there is in the background.

The large image you see is the s sixty six five four five to eighty five red number NASA film from the Hassleblag camera on the Gemini eleven mission.

All these things can be seen.

You can look for yourself at all these images on Arizona State University marks to the Moon.

NASA has got out of the photograph business, NASA has got out of the freedom of information Act business.

They have relegated it all and there's the highest definition photos you can get all in Arizona State University.

But what you see there again, and before I get away from it, Mark's done a wonderful composite there.

What you see the big black background is the actual NASA March to the mon F sixty six five four five a five.

Yes.

Then you see right here this darker background.

Okay, see how it's lighter blue and then that's black in there.

That is from page four of the twelve year secret Mission Report, Page four.

That was what they showed as the very first image in the mission report that was secret for twelve years.

That's pretty interesting that that's the first image that they showed.

But you can see it was cut out and it matches perfectly the s sixty six five four five eight five.

And then of course yeah I see, and then of course over here.

It's a lithograph.

Yeah, so let me, yeah, let me just ask you this.

Let me let me jump in and ask a little couple of questions here there.

So as you know, generally speaking, if someone's not as someone's going to make a lithograph, there's a purpose for it.

They're not just going to make one lithograph and then just be put in a book.

So what in heck, why in heck would they make a lithograph of that.

That's what's coming out in the next book, and it's going straight to Congress.

I've done the research starting way back in nineteen fifty six through nineteen fifty eight the creation of the npi C, the National Photographic Intelligence Center, and it retained that name I think up and through nineteen ninety seven.

Then now it's part of the National Geospatial Organization.

But what it was designed to do way back when it was created in nineteen fifty six was to provide specifically to provide sanitized briefing documents for top secret images.

I've got the actual CIA reports for things like, well, what was that incident with the U two with Cuba, Yeah, the Cuban Missile crisis incident, when they flew over Cuba and they took the utube photos of the missile silos there that nearly got the world involved in World War three.

Way back then, that was important information.

But the thing is this, these guys just came out of World War Two.

They risked their lives.

Achill each you know their lives are on the line every day, and they are serious when they talk about, you know, death threats and threats being issued and stuff like that.

They don't let many people know these top secret things because when you take that photograph, that photograph provides you all kinds of information you and I don't understand the guy who was what was his name, Richard Underwood.

He was a U two photo interpreter and he flew on those U two missions and he did the photo interpretation for them, and he would go back to the lab and he could tell you just exactly what the what the equipment was on the ground, just by magnification and just by shadow depth characteristics, whether you're looking at a fuel tank or whether you're looking at perhaps who knows, just a garbage disposal unit.

But you also get the exact measurements, and measurements are precise.

This happened in nineteen sixty five on the Gemini, the Gemini five mission in nineteen sixty five.

I've got the CIA proof right there where they tell you in that CIA release report that in nineteen sixty five the mission took pictures of Cape Canaveral and they took those pictures over Cape Canaveral to show everybody down in Cape Canaveral, Hey, here's the wonderful view of you.

The CIA got hold of that and it's called the Montage Report.

And in the Montage Report you see them announce right there that this is critical information.

We can't let this information get out.

Why because you can come up with an exact ICBM missile targeting system just from that montage of photos that they got from these NASA photos.

These NASA photos, they did not realize the clarity of them was so great, but they did by the time Gemini eleven came out because that lithograph, what the D fifteen experiment was precisely that they were doing spy photographs of the whole time, and there was a front out there.

And everybody recognizes that now, at least inwardly, but now I've documented it.

In nineteen sixty five they came out and they came with a memo that said, from now on, all NASA photographs will come directly from US, and no photographs will be released unless we say they can be released.

And then the NPIIC, the National Photographic Interpretation Center.

I've got the list of the lithograph machines they've got, which in this particular case is a Heidelberg Press.

Okay, they also had a Harris Press offset press.

They're offset print lithograph machines.

People who are do this will look you look at the Cuban missile crisis.

They had those wonderful photographs of those missile silos.

But if they were to release those photographs out for everybody to see them, just in the plane form, then the Soviet Union can take those photographs and say, Jesus Christ, these guys are able to get this high detail here, We've got to do something.

We've got to have some kind of cover up.

We have to do this and that we have to watch the scheduling for the overcoming missiles.

These are life and death circumstances going on, and it's military information that can be gleaned from these photographs.

And that's why the MPIC was charged with making lithographs for sanitized briefing documents.

Well, a large loaded you can read, I've got all the details down.

I'm trying to write the books the past second, but I've got all the details down.

The number of people that that get them, there's a large lot is like twenty five you'll see in the book probably on something like this UFO thing.

To the best estimates and searching getting a list of all the sanitized briefing documents that they did in that time period.

There were probably less than fifteen people that ever even knew that there was a UFO scene.

Now, were you saying this lithograph was created in sixty six or was it that was career?

It was created in nineteen sixty six, And of course I have the documentation from the lab in Chicago showing that the paper, the ink, and the age are all consistent with it.

In fact, one of the things that gives it away right away.

You can't see it right here, but I'll bring it up to you and show you right here in three places you have to have it.

I had it scanned it at sixteen hundred dots per inch.

What you can see in the background is the word unclassified.

Yeah, like just well you see it up here, but it comes up here and here and here too.

And the reason, as I turned out, first of all, I had to research how a lithograss work.

Back then, they had a thing called wet fountain solution, and these old early lithograph machines is a wet fountain solution to keep the rubber rollers from sticking the ink to them in the inappropriate place.

And it was scraped off, but I left a microscopt fair of the wet fountain solution which included gum arab and the gum arabic got on the surface of the paper and it did not affect visually that lithograph at that time, but after sixty years because that gum arabic formed a coding on the paper and there's a different oxidation rate there.

You can make out the words unclassified three times and then and there's other roller marks on there too.

But why do you think they Why do you think the unclassified such a That's the.

Other interesting story.

This is a whole, the whole, the whole methodology of secrecy and government secrecy has changed from the years, going way back to Lincoln and stuff.

We've been keeping military secrets.

Everybody keeps military secrets.

But what happened is this And you can there's a there's a link to a YouTube video by Gordon Cooper, one of the astronauts who saw UFOs when he was a fighter pilot in Germany.

Describes it well and in that now I've got it marked down to the second.

So when you get the book, go into the book where I've got a whole chapter on Gordon Cooper, go and look at that video and he will tell you flat out exactly how they kept the Utwo strip from Congress and the American Bubby.

I've got the exact secret, and he talks about it, and he says, look, basically, what he says is Congress is a bunch of bliber mouse.

Our lives are on the line out here, and these guys can't be trusted to go to the store with your candy money, you know.

And he says, there's no way we can let these secrets get out there.

So he says, what we learned, and this is part of the spycraft.

When you listen to these who was a David Grush talks about spycraft, he says, I'll talk about spicecraft and a skiff.

Oh and by the way, the NPI, see the National Photographic Institute Information Center, is the original skiff they did.

That was the original skiff in that building, the Stewart building.

But see, I kind of lost track, and that's why I like that said.

Here, there's just so many things that are all tied in together paint that perfect picture.

What was I trying to explain to you and explain something about the lithograph.

Or yeah, uh, well that's initially yes, initially you were because I said, you know, but but you kind of explained it.

I mean, they wanted to get a briefing out there.

There's yeah, yeah, that's, and that's and the and it says right there and you can look and you can look it up.

I've got a list of ten but that's that'll be in the next book.

I'm writing it as fast as I can.

Guys, I don't know if I have a.

Tu So let me just say this to the listening audience also, and for those of you who are listening, uh and can't see these images.

I will put some links in the show notes.

Just click on that you'll see some images and links to all these different things that you know.

I like the fact that you're sharing it out there.

You're getting it out there without a lot of games, you know, So that's good.

Yeah, it's on the covers.

Look, and I just remember not Bart Simpson, but Bart Simpkins and the Simpkins and ufo'.

It's on the covers for you to look at interesting things.

I look at the back cover of the second book, Okay, those are images from the D fifteen experiment.

Do you see those flying saucers right there?

You see that beautiful little blue flying saucer right there?

That what was called, oh, the D fifteen experiment.

Every detail is in there.

This book is big.

The first book is six hundred and fifty plus pages, okay, and I had to cut it down from way over nine hundred, probably over one thousand.

I forget how many I have to throw away to get it relevant.

And these are all documents, okay.

I wanted to make sure that people knew that you can go here and you can find the information.

It's not me telling you this.

This is all NASA information, and it's all right there.

But oh and as an auctioneer, I wanted to point out to you.

You want to know how valuable those six hundred and fifth, five hundred and sixty eight, five hundred and sixty eight photos were in those thirty one linders that.

I've Yeah, let's hear.

I only sold two hundred and thirty of them because I kept the most historically best ones, right, and that's what this and that they're here in the Simpkinson a UFO book.

You will not be able to see that either.

This is the guy who built the original blockhouses, built the original capsules, and he had the photographs from the very first Mercury missions.

There's one hundred and over one hundred and fifty pages of those in here.

But the two hundred and twenty pages I sold at Heritage Auctions, okay, which I know.

Yeah, Heritage the world's best space auction.

Right then, there's no Now, this was back when whoppers were two for five dollars, right, I sold two hundred and twenty of them for eighty thousand dollars.

Wow, Now where did you?

Not?

Bull crap photos?

Guys?

Yeah?

So where did you?

That's right?

Yeah, Heritage does well.

I actually sold some things to them before.

Where did you?

Let's let's talk about where you how you found this in the very beginning?

Sure like you, I'm a I'm a historian and an auction goer, and I love preserving history.

It's just a shit.

What besides eleven years old and I read the entire nineteen fifty nine Funk and Wagons twenty six volume Encyclopedia, every single page from cover to cover in one summer.

I don't know why I'm a I'm a bibliophile, so you know, I didn't like working for a living.

I'm kind of lazy and I say that too, Okay, I really am, But I mean I couldn't read voraciously.

I'll read that I'm reading all these CIA documents and I'm like having a party.

This does not work for me.

But what I did was I went to auctions all the time, and I bought these rare documents, and like you, before I paid something, you know, you know, i'd call my guy up as Swan Galleries.

You know, I've got a couple of good Yeah, Swan, I love them.

I've sold to them for years and they had stuff that's gone into museums.

I'm so happy there's I mean, it's a it's a matter of reward, is he God?

At least I did something that I consider worthy.

I saved some history there in museums for people to see.

So I do that and that's how I made my living.

But there was consequently, you're familiar with auctions zip dot com, of course people won't be familiar with them.

Auctionsip dot com is a wonderful service for all auctioneers everywhere in the world and for all collectors do because what they do is they list every single auction in the.

Unis general area too.

You can buy right and you can go to fifty miles, one hundred miles, one hundred and fifty miles, you can take the whole country and if you want to.

But I just did this on the weekends to go and see the good Saturday auctions and on auctions at dot com.

I came across an auction about forty miles north of me up towards Cleveland, right up by where the Lewis Space Center is now, which was Lewis Field, which was where Scott Simpkinson was the first engineer to work under V two rockets and stuff consequently too very interesting.

There's so many leads that I'd like to follow, but I camp it's about a two and a half hour drive from Dayton, where the right pat Field is, and of course we know that that's allegedly DM Roswell Remnant's taken there too.

There might be some connection between the Simpkinson and that, but Simpkinson was the lead producer the lead engineer that headed the Space Task Group up built that first capsule, built the first rocket, built the blockhouses down there, basically built up Cape Canaveral.

When he went down there, they talked about snakes and stuff priming into the little apartments they were living in.

It was rough.

He was there and he was the formation of NASA.

People don't know a lot about him because he died in nineteen ninety six.

And the other thing, is this the auction that I found.

And you know how hard it is to fining good items.

I know you know how hard it is, but I'm good at it.

I looked it was advertised as the Emily Erdle NASA Collection.

Well, Emily was his main squeeze.

Okay, she was his secretary.

She started in nineteen forty five at NAKA.

She was down there and went You saw her with the very first based ask group.

Inside the book you will see a newsletter, the first NASA newsletter.

And they talked so well about Emily Erdle, who has the honor of being the first female employee at Cape Canaveral.

She was really yeah, everything is documented.

I've got it all in hand for you.

It's just Sara and Sha I love a young girl, very beautiful and stuff.

Scott was married and he had a kid.

Now I'm not sure about that.

You know, some of these other journalists that I think been in contact, I think they know a little bit more about his background.

I met his nephew and that's what happened.

Emily Erdle was his main squeeze.

She was working as his secretary and the only secretary I think up there in the knacka field.

But Scott Simpkinson was married.

Things were different back than.

He was a Catholic, and I don't know if it had him to do with him being a devout Catholic or not, but he was either divorced or didn't receive a divorce, so he never married Emily Eardle.

But they were lifelong lovers.

You can see in all the back of these books.

You can see all the astronauts talking about, Hey, how's Emily doing?

And thank Emily for doing this.

Now, Scott was a collector too.

He collected trains and he collected stamps, and he had a lot to do actually with the creation of First day covers and as an auctioneer.

Oh yeah, the story behind first day covers.

So the people out there who don't know.

It's fascinating thing.

I've got the newspaper articles in here.

There was no internet.

In here, there's one hundred and fifty over one hundred and fifty NASA photographs, many and we're one secret.

I've got the blown up components and the unblown up components that were on the Atlas rockets that they were building.

Okay, and you've got these and every page too, just so you know, it is a full page, nine by eleven, okay, so you can see the details in these things the times back then, you know.

Talking to the kids out here, I just want you to understand how primitive we were.

You will see the first mercury capsule is loaded on the back of a tow truck.

Okay.

And not only is it loaded on the back of a tow truck going towards the gantry, the tow truck has split windshield screens.

Okay, kids, here's the reason why the split wind When the screens were split windshields.

Okay, we didn't have the technology to build a big piece of safety glass, all right.

We couldn't be able to piece of safety glass any bigger than that, and so they had to split the windshield screens in order for the people not to go through and be cut the shreds every time they ran into a tree.

That's how proudive we were back then.

There were no phones.

I remember nineteen sixty four.

I think it was it was like the Olympics, the Winter Olympics out in Europe.

That was like the first time that there was any TV that crossed the that you could see across the ocean, and I think that was like the early word satellines up.

So these things did not exist.

Kids.

There were no hand calculators, there were no pocket calculators, there was no TV.

Now we had the telegraph system, okay in the wireless and those kinds of things, but there was no internet.

So because there was no internet, you'll see in this book I've got one hundred and fifty pages also of what Emily Ardle compiled as the first female employee at NASA.

She collected all of the mercury information from newspapers and it's one hundred and fifty pays and you can read them all in the book too, the fascinating stories to a historian, of course, of exactly what all those missions went.

Now today we're used to news being as quick as looking down at your phone and the phone and just seeing what's coming across the wire's life.

Back then, they didn't have that option.

So what they did, and anyone who's a fan of old movies like I am, will see an old scene where they see the street corner boy selling newspapers going extra extra.

Read out about it.

Well, it's called an extra, kids, Kids, you don't know what an extra is.

An extra is this when you have a live news story.

Back then, you don't have any way to communicate that to the public.

The public is relying on the old standard paper newspapers at that time to get the latest information.

And you'll find in here there's a wonderful ticket's to John Glenn launch.

He only did three orbits, guys, and orbit only last ninety minutes, okay, So the whole flight was two hundred and seventy minutes.

In those two hundred and seventy minutes, they had the initial flight that came out when he launched it, okay, and then there's an extra addition after orbit two.

Okay, So think about it.

You know, we can watch it live on TV.

They didn't have that back then.

We were so primitive that they had someone on the newspaper come out and they ran an extra edition after the first ninety minutes so that they could give people an update on how the mission was going.

We were primitive times back then.

So that's just remarkable to me, how primitive we are working back then.

Yeah, I mean I when I was you know, I mean when I was doing appraisals back in the you know, in the eighties, I would go to like the library and you know, one of my historic society historical societies and and you know, state state archives and things like that, and research you know.

Your sources online.

It wasn't it right.

I did the signer of the Declaration, Josiah Bartlett, I did his all his artifacts at auction in nineteen eighty nine, and I spent months, you know, researching ahead of that auction, and he had to do it all by the library and state archives and things like that ledgers, and you know, I loved it.

I still love you know, yeah, exactly.

I spend all day doing it.

I'm going through the CIA files now and I can't I can't quit.

These are the release CIA files.

And for those are people who don't know that they're available out there online.

You go to the CIA Reading Room, and what they've done is they've been forced over the years to release as many documents as they felt comfortable with doing.

But all those documents are released in there, and there's thousands of them now.

Of course they relieve.

They release them in the method that makes it very hard to get the report numbers.

But you can, if you're diligent and just try one tack after another, you can get it.

They'll release a whole file and there'll be one number and that'll bring the whole file up, and then there'll be two hundred individual files in there that you can bring up and read them one at a time.

Okay, let's talk about Simpkinson and why he had.

What he had.

He had what he had because Simpkinson had very early clearance back with NAKA working on the V two rockets, okay, and he started out with propellers in World War Two.

But he was NAKA, which was the basis and was that group that formed the Space Task Group.

Those were all from Lewis Field up in Cleveland Army Airfield.

It was military research.

Okay.

He had the clearances to work on all the military aeronautical and destructive testing methodologies that they needed.

So he and he was the leader.

And then the newspaper article that shows him in the whole group in front of their very first mercury capsule, that whole group.

Let's see.

I kind of wanted to try and explain something about it, but he was well, he was the group leader.

So he was the leader for the Lewis field and as the lead engineer down there.

You can read I've read like three books, three books on the early NASA days, and he's mentioned all throughout them.

Okay, there's stories.

He was the go to guy for engineering.

Interesting stories.

Stories like one of the engineers was charged with taking the Space Shuttle and getting it back from the California field where it landed, and back the knack nasally where they could launch it again.

He couldn't they were launching it.

They were putting it on top of a seven forty seven jet and flying it back.

You guys are younger and remember that.

But that was a crazy thing that I think they called it the pregnant guppy.

They had the Space Shuttle on top of a seven forty seven jet to fly it back to be reused again.

So you know, I remember these things and it's hard for me to remember sometimes that people don't realize these these interesting things they had to do.

But the engineers that was in charge of getting that done couldn't get it through Congress, and so he didn't know what to do, and so they told him go to Scott, and Scott Simpkinson said, don't worry about it, give it to me.

Just get it on there.

And he went through and within one day of talking to Congress, he had that space shuttle bypassing all the safety regulations that they wouldn't allow, and to fly it on there.

And it was fun.

He was that kind of guy.

He went up on top.

He and another engineer were ready on one of the early launches, and there's this incredible stuff back there.

You saw the It looks like a garage that they built.

Yeah, there we go.

Which one's that.

That's beautiful documents, aren't they.

Yeah, that's all wonderful.

Yeah, look at yeah, look at the look at the reports that they're having there.

That's from the D fifteen experiment.

And again briefly, let me explain the D fifteen experiment.

You can see I have the actual photos of how that gem and that capsule was arranged.

It was the first television camera in space.

The purpose behind it was this, these guys were up there.

They weren't just taking synoptic terrain photographs for the National not masson lin Pun was a natural geographic They were doing spy missions too.

Okay, I think everybody now can realize that they said that it was a civilian agency.

It wasn't.

It was under control of the government the whole time along in these rooms, iportant things being done.

So they were taking photographs.

That was five photographs too.

But you have to understand the mechanics behind an orbit, these orbits, and they're still about the same time period.

One orbit generally runs ninety minutes.

Okay, you circumnavigate the Earth in ninety minutes.

That's still about the same time today, because that's seventeen thousand miles prior it takes to leave Earth orbit.

In that ninety minutes, you're on the sunny side for forty five minutes, and you're on the dark side for forty five minutes.

Now, on the sunny side you have a pretty good chance of tracking the Soviet missile base and getting a nice figure of it, right but when you get on the dark side and you need to track some objects and you want to take some surreptitious photographs, which I learned now there were more cameras than even I knew about a nice ever read one that they were using.

In order to do that, you have to realize it's hard to see in the dark if you're a human being.

In fact, if you check the method, well, if you check the biology of a human eye, it takes twenty minutes for the human eye to dilate fully for full human night vision.

Twenty minutes, so you've only you've got forty five minutes in the dark and you can't.

See To try twenty five minutes.

Yeah, you can't see anything for that period.

So half your time you can't.

You're not any use to the military reconnaissance function that you need to perform.

So that's why they made the Ortho coon cameras called the night Vision Experiment, And what it was was the TV camera in the back back behind the behind the small capsule in the operations console.

Back there there was the actual TV camera.

It pointed straight down and it actually there was a flap on the bottom and these drawings are in there.

They're fascinating and there's three or four components and the opponents in there.

There's a flap that opened up after they released from the final eight hundred and twelve mile high orbit.

They opened that flap had a mirror on it, and the TV camera shot right through the mirror and that's boom, while you got the picture going straight ahead where it comes out.

Now, that was the Orthicon TV camera they had in his lap during that D fifteen experiment.

Gordon had it like a radar.

If you've ever been a boat pilot or anything like that, you know what these radar screens are.

You put your head down there and you can see the radar screen and you use that.

Well, they had the same similar situation and he would look through that and he could see what the TV camera was picking up.

And there you are.

There you are looking at it and look at that.

That's pretty much invisible stuff.

Now what you're seeing is that clock.

Now, that's what's really interesting here because that clock's running and what that clock means is this.

Now, it was all electromagnetic signals that went directly to the orthocontomb for him to navigate by.

So what he was doing was he was looking at the screen and trying to navi and navigate and stay on targets so that he could follow a target.

In other words, he wants to look at a missile base so he can look at that and say, hey, I can see it on this thing.

You know, I'm not nipelind And so he would maneuver the craft and keep it in focus.

And then that was their way to get these surreptitious military and military evidence.

Okay, so what you're seeing that clock that's running through there, Oh my god, you must have got the whole thing, Thank goodness.

By the way, that's super high definition.

When I ordered that from the National Archives, there were three labs that you can get it from.

Color Lab is the lab I chose because it's the original lab.

They ad added two more labs that you can now have du gets made from, but those two labs were added on basically for helping people get business that never had an opportunity to do it.

But I went with Color Lab, the original, and their records go all the way back, and the guy told me, nobody has ever ordered this film before, so I'm the first one recording.

So you're looking at something nobody's seen before.

Okay, but when I ordered it too, they had a standard set of packages of the definition that you can order it by.

Well, what I did was, I said, this is you know we number one I was, I forked out a lot of money for this, because money is not, you know, not a matter of any consequence when you're talking about something as important as this.

So looking at what a lot that's electromagnetic effects going on.

There's strange things going on in the sky.

But the point I was trying to make was and oh those clock scrangers see are this?

He had that and it's cramped in that little capsule.

Basically when they got up in space, the very first experiment they did, it was practically sitting in his lap and as soon as they finished the experiment, they had to open the door and throw it out the window.

That's how tight they were.

From these thirteen experiments.

Oh my god, wow, Yeah, these things are fast.

There were twelve missions on there, and they were very important.

But there's the clock again.

Now, what you're looking at on that clock, that's and you know, there's a lot of good history behind that too, and it's the accutron clock.

So that's when they first came out with back then in his pocket called an acuitron watch.

Oh yeah, I had, Yeah, everybody did, because we could have the tuning for it.

Right.

Yeah.

So what that is is he's looking through the radar screen and that's the picture he sees.

From that picture, you can tell that he can see stuff that you couldn't see in the dark with your naid to die.

So that was used for tracking.

It was a major success.

Look, how clear those pictures aren't what the clock is?

Is this the film was separate from the electromagnetic images.

In other words, that he turned it on and he was seeing that thing constantly.

That was for three orbits or two hundred and seventy minutes.

For two hundred and seventy minutes, that camera was running and he was using it to track an experiment with the methodology of the camera.

It seems like there's only ten minutes of film.

The reason there's only ten minutes of film is and you'll hear this in the voice transcripts too, as he describes some things he's seen.

He had a button in his hand as he watched it, and whenever he saw something that was interesting, he clicked the button and it recorded a dumb film, and it recorded the exact time stamp.

So you can tie the time stamp on that film right there to the time stamp on the voice transcripts, which are an accurate to the second also, So that's amazing evidence.

So when we see anomalies in this film, you can see the clock and the exact second the clock was taken.

And where's the one thing I want to share here in the second book?

This one just ready to look at right here there.

You can see right now what you see?

See that right there, and see that up there.

Yeah, that's the UFL A different one.

No, it's the well, no, it's it was recorded.

They were recorded over three orbits, okay, for three orbits you can hear them talking about seeing things.

Okay, But this one is on that D fifteen experiment, and I think it's actually frame five fifteen JPG five to fifteen right around that arter.

I showed this one on the cover of the book because I didn't want the timestamp to get out of the way.

But when you get to the first timestamp, here's what you have to realize, and you can do it now that you've got the whole film.

You look at the clock when the timestamp first comes on.

When he hits that button, it starts the timestamp clock, right, and that goes on for about six frames.

So for six frames that clock shows the very first frame and the film the clock timestamp gets stamped on the previous film.

Okay, it's only it's only taking film.

It's from that electromagnetic signal only when he hits the button.

So when he hits the button, the time stamp has to go on the previous film.

In other words, that shows where this next series starts from.

And this is a consequence of the time stamp.

It shows what's in it.

This should be in the previous segment of film.

Okay, and you can look at that, and you can do that with the ones that are not tampered with.

You will see it.

You got to go through the very first one, the very first one.

This is the bottom of the of the previous film segment.

Okay.

What they did was there's missing film in there.

Okay.

And the way you know is because this has this removed.

They removed the first one, but they didn't get these out of the second six and up in front of it, there's not it's not the same thing.

It proves that there's missing film just before this was taken.

So so the UFO is not down here and it's not in this sequence, it's up here in this sequence.

This.

So anyways, just.

Here's a question.

Have you you have actually talked to people about this?

I just saw a little report you had analysis of you know, Travis Taylor, who I know, doctor Travis Taylor.

But also have you talked to like people that work with space film and camera, any experts.

No, I've had to do most of the research myself.

Okay, But here's the Travis Taylor analysis.

Okay, so this is this is something that everyone would like to see.

He's got about a twenty page analysis in the book that he did for the book and for me.

Leslie King was kind enough to put him in touch with me and have him analysis for me.

You see right here, these lines right here, that, of course is the UFO that he's no.

Now, Travis course is a photoanalyst for NASA.

Okay, so he's a photo analyst.

So did I talk to someone who was a photoanalyst.

Yes, Travis Taylor did this twenty page report.

This is only one page from it.

In the page it's here because what it shows he's pointing out in the lithograph itself.

Right down there in the lithograph he makes these lines right here, and he says, well, that's orbital debris.

This is orbitle debris, and this is horrible debris right there.

Okay, so that's that's orbital debris.

Now, this is the thing.

It's not present in the S sixty six five four five eight three.

There's an S sixty six five four or five four five eight five.

This is five for five eight five and S sixty six five for five eight three.

It looks to me, and the photo analysis I've had done so far.

Remember I'm working around this round the clock, just because it's fun.

It shows that the actual march to the moon.

They say that it's the Agena capsule at three hundred feet.

Now what they did.

They've got five a series of five photographs that are in the book, and they are moving.

They describe it in a movie I found that found that it was a public public relations movie.

Is why they took it at that time.

The public relation movie.

They mentioned that it's traveling at nine feet per second, so they're re rendezving with the Agena capsule and when they re rendevue, they're nine feet per second.

The five for five eight three film says it was at three hundred feet from the agena and this one is at ninety feet from the agena, So travel basically what two hundred feet?

Now, the question is at nine ft per second, how many seconds is that the difference to the missing frame five for five eight three.

Go ahead, run it through photo analys It's a scan of a blank placeholder, just like the CIA would use when they're removing.

Also those five frames.

When you get to the Arizona Arizona State University, March to the Moon and you look at these photographs.

Scott Underwood work for the CIA.

He knew everything.

He talks about in his interview about how the astronauts would play games with him, trying to show him a photograph and say, okay, where was that?

And he says, no, you can't fool me because he was the expert, and he told them right off every time.

He knew every spot down to the split second where every photograph was taken.

And that is meta data.

What you then made it data is included in Arizona State University.

Underneath the bottom you get to the photograph and you're going to expand it.

Look at it.

See the UFO and five eight four at sixty six five four five eight four that's the first vision of the UFO.

But it's at a distance and it looks like a light, and it's up above the agena, and you can do if you expanded long enough, you can see actually the some reflective shit sheath of the saucer over the metal.

It's just fascinating stuff.

It's all in the book.

There's so much evidence.

I don't want to get distracted, because that's what SA's good for.

He knows I lose.

I've got too many details that I'm trying to get out, you guys, But what was I trying to make the point of?

Can you help me?

I can't get you to shut up long enough to help you.

Well, like I said, as a humor, well you were.

Let's see, you were going along, we were talking.

You were just finishing up with you know, Travis Taylor's report and going from there basically.

Yeah, oh yeah, So we're talking about speed.

So we've got five photographs there with the six one a three hundred feet missing.

Okay, do yourself a nice photo analysis of that.

They'll say, this is a scan of a blank placeholder, which is exactly and you can read that in this CIA report.

How they would withhold that data.

NASA never had these images.

When you hear the testimony and NASA gets up there and tells you we don't have any evidence to show any UFOs, they're not lying, okay.

The reason they're not lying is because they never got At first, you look to the nineteen sixty five memo CIA operative Underwood developed every single frame himself by hand.

Now from there, ever since Gemini five in nineteen sixty five, they went directly from him to the National Photographic Interpretive Center.

It's there documented.

I've got it, and I'll be able to show it to you, but you can see for yourself there.

It goes from directly from him to them, and there, of course their main task is any anomalies or military targets that they don't want presented.

They have to share that with certain people, generals, head state, NASA needs to know these things, okay, but not everybody, and ASA needs to know the secret information.

Basically, a run, the largest run that I found they ever made of lithographs.

The largest run was twenty boards or twenty lithographs, and that means it can only be disseminated to twenty people.

And also there's a whole policy of they would have to take that.

Now, these guys are photographic interpreters, okay, but they're not the mechanical engineers building the craft.

So they had to get this back first of all to someone who was a space engineer so that he could analyze it for anything that might be necessary to increase the safety of the mission.

And that guy was Scott Simpkinson.

According to the searches I've done of the boards that they dropped, there's probably between eight and fifteen people only that ever saw this lithograph, and they disseminated them to him for him to use in his engineering studies.

And as I said, he's a top secret guy.

Here's how top secret these guys are.

This is the story.

What was I telling you?

I was telling you about the interview that you got to go through the Johnson Space Center oral interviews when these guys were dying off.

They started six months after Scott Simpkinson died, So he's not in there, but he's in there, and all these other guys talking about oh Scotty Jeezy col Scotty was the guy that they went to for these questions.

But Underwood talks about what happened to him.

He started out, of course, he was a CB in World War Two and he was offloading ammunition cases and getting gunfire, and of course the CBS were the first guys in there.

What incredibly dangerous stuff.

So the man was just as brave as the other astronauts up there.

But he ended up coming back and getting his education and becoming a photo analyst for the CIA working on the U two missions.

Okay, so working as a photo analyst on the U two missions, he was down in Guatemala, And in Guatemala, I believe the study had something to do with every time you launch a missile, there's gravitational anomalies in the surface of the Earth to the Earth's not perfectly around.

We know that the atmosphere bulges here and there, and the electromagnetic spectrum bulges here and there, and the gravity of the Earth is not consistent either.

We have large gravitational masses causing safe For instance, the island Hawaii.

My god, that's that's a gravitational anomaly right there.

But you have to know these gravitational anomalies where they are and be able to measure them if you're going to get that missile to fly directly to the target.

So that's what he was doing, I believe, on the mission down in Guatemala.

He went on the mission, came back, and when he came back there he says, upon the tarmac was the most beautiful Native Guatemalan girl he ever saw in his life.

He says, I fell in love with her instantly.

And there's every young man who have risked his life all the time, or even if he doesn't risk his life all the time, every young man who's breathing and healthy fell in love and he married her.

Now, this is a quote I want you to listen to.

This is in the body you got to head.

These testimonies.

These guys didn't know back then that they were letting secrets out.

It's it's in the nast test me or he says.

When the when the general I was working for found out that I had married this native Guatemalan girl, he called me in and he told me, and these are quotes he is his quotes.

He said, I should take you out and have you shot right now without a trial.

Well that's this isn't quotes, This isn't And I love the guy.

I love these gutsy guys because they don't give a you know, they don't care.

You know, I mean they do care, of course they do.

They took him out of the U two's okay, and they put him back in the B twenty nines, which he loved me.

He threw through four thousand hours reconnaissance missions on the BE twenty nine, and because of it, he went death in one ear.

So he sacrificed lots for the country.

But he was taking off that classified mission right then and there, and he was lucky to get away with it his life.

These guys don't mess around.

When you hear them talking in these hearings about guys being threatened for their lives.

There that's testimony right there.

You can read it going way back.

You can hear him say.

But what I love best is he married the girl and he stayed with her and brought her back to University of Colorado where he worked from the Geophysical Survey And then Warner von Braun called him up because he was on the approved list, and they said, Werner, this is the guy.

And Werner called him up and says, as I understand it, you're familiar with the reconnaissance photographs at thirty thousand feet and he said, yes, yes, of course I am.

I haven't done that for years.

He says, what do you think he could do with one hundred and thirty thousand feet?

And he said, I'd like you to I'm down here and talk to me.

And that's when he became the founding developer of the entire NASA Photographic department.

He came up with all the classification schemes.

As I said, he knows everything, and let me tell you this too.

He set it up so that you cannot track things down.

It's just typical CIA subterfuge.

You hold one thing up here.

You don't put the pictures in order.

Okay, you don't release the original pictures that are on the film and that he developed.

Okay, you don't release them in that order.

You give them a NASA number.

Those NASA red number letters.

Those were the ones released, and they're sequential.

They go one, two, three, four, five secs, but they're not sequential with what was filmed.

That way, you can't track and find out what's anomalous.

And when you get to the five NASA photographs that this one is one of them, and you look in the metadata.

Guess what.

All five of those photographs have no metadata.

They don't tell you what orbit it was taken in, and they don't give you the exact hour and time and second.

So that's the only ones that I've found.

I can ask you this question.

I can't find it.

I was just looking for it while you're speaking.

And that is there was a woman I believe the interview was in the nineteen nineties.

It was recorded, it was on YouTube where she said she was a former NASA and she walked in and she saw them brushing out a UFO out of a photo before they were releasing it.

Did you ever see that interview?

Yes?

Okay, so what do you think about that?

Do you think that's been going on?

It's not reasonable to me.

Look, things were very different back then historically.

Here's a story directly from nineteen fifty eight to show you just exactly how humanity always lets flows through like this lithograph.

Here's why this lithograph came through.

This is from the nineteen fifty six creation of the National Photographic Interpretive Center, where they'd made all these who were in charge of sending to NASA what photos they could release.

When they found the place they wanted to do it.

It was originally in the Stewart Building, a seven story tall building and unsetior part of Washington, d C.

The bottom two floors were a car dealership, okay, and the car dealership had five floors above it that it wanted to rent out, so they had to sign up.

They're saying for rent, Well, that CIA document and this is CIA document.

It's just so wonderful what's recorded and what slips through.

They talk about it.

So they talk about their creation.

Were so proud, and they invented the skiff there, So the first skiff was there at the National Photographic Center.

People came in there to view these photos where they could be retained safely.

They talk about the security measures they do.

They talk about the equipment that the ordered, the Heidelberg Press, the Herosofs that press.

They talk about the developers.

They talk about the first basic wudimentary computers that they got in there, and then they talk about how we are so happy that we've got this unobservable place down here in the seedier part of Washington, d C.

And that way we don't have to worry so much about spine.

And they go through all the methodology that they went to create that skift, and then at the end of the report they say, Unfortunately, when we came to take possession of the building several weeks after we had negotiated the deal, we saw a sign on the door that says rented by the CIA.

So this is humanity.

We have problems like this.

So that's documented.

You can read that document.

Okay, this is the Iam my God.

All the efforts that we do to keep things secret, there's always there's always human polibility that comes into it.

And so whether that could have happened to her, I believe it's entirely possible.

Yes, I heard that interview.

It was an interesting interview.

There's you know, I don't know enough about her.

We have to investigate.

I know who's goot semptence.

I know it is incredible thing.

How she got it, I don't know, but it's just human nature.

And like I said, so they threatened to kill Underwood.

Okay, he goes back, he comes in with Werner von Braun and this is what he says.

You gotta love a guy like this.

I love these military guys.

I mean, you know, they'll shoot you one minute and then they'll stick their tongue out at the next.

And then he says at the end of his interview, and he says, and even though he threatened to shoot me immediately on the second, I've still married to her.

We have four kids, and they live here in Houston with me, and all four of them are graduating from college.

And you can just hear in his voice he's going near, near, near, near, near.

You know, you're threatened to kill me and stuff.

I'm still married to her.

We have four kids, they're all working here with NASA, and screw you.

You got to love.

It's our humanity that makes us pathetic, and it's our humanity that makes us heartful too.

So whether that's real or not, I don't have enough information to judge it.

But when you hear that story about the CIA setting up their top secret building and for two weeks there's a sign outside the car dealers, they're saying, run into the CIA.

Shit happens.

I can't even believe they would do that.

You know what I mean?

You can read in the CIA document I've got, I've got I.

Know I mean, But I mean you think they would make it be some type of shell situation.

You know, you know the resources we have back then.

I mean, these guys are driving around, they don't have phones, they don't have cell phones.

Agents are out there to work on their own.

They have one hundred million things that they have to worry about and take care of.

It's very limited, uh, you know, limited reach a person can do when they're not hooked in it.

When when they're not hooked to the Internet, you have a lot of responsibility and you have to wing it along.

These guys are doing spy mission stuff.

Philip Corso read Philip Corso's book Everybody out there, you know, you want to know some of some of the secrets you'll see.

And I just got the first edition so I can find the exact quote again.

Philip Corso mentions, he says, everybody knew that every Gemini mission was followed.

And I just got the first edition so I can find the page again.

I had read it in the one of the bannum editions that I bought, and I said, well, I know he said that, I can't find it.

So finally I got the first edition and I look at that, but I know it's there, and that's and that's just the truth.

And well, you know, Philip, I got to tell you, you know, I understand he's there.

That could be something different where you're talking about.

But he can be a little controversial.

I will tell you that in the UFO world.

Very controvers So in the book, do you remember the segment in his book where he's in the office, uh, in the Pentagon.

In his office he's been making drop offs of the materials to the various manufacturers that he is and he's in the Foreign technology that that was his department, the Foreign Technology division.

Okay, then we didn't say how foreign, but it was the Foreign technology the division and the animosity between the power hungry grabs in everywhere in this world.

The grab for power is part of human nature.

And he was working, of course for the army, okay, and of course the General he worked for.

My god, what what what a great amazing engineering he was, and the very outspoken hero, you know, walked up pork chop Hill.

He actually went up in general and that's why course followed him.

So closing, but what was the point I was gonna make.

I was gonna make the point that Corso was being followed, he noted, and he was a spy.

He was over there in Italy.

Read the book in Italy.

He was over there finding the hidden Mussolini UFOs, right, he talks about that in the book.

And here he was working for the army, and the battle between the CIA and the other military armed forces was severe.

Okay, Like Heinstein said, the military industrial complex is the threat he was most worried about.

So what did Corso do?

It says in the book.

And you talk about controversial, right, Well, then no one's been able to document it other than what he says in his own testimony.

He took his forty five service Revolver out of his holster in the Pentagon, went to his CIA briefing contact who was having him followed.

He slammed it down on the desk, and he said, if he follows me again, you won't have him.

This is a United States Army talking to the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

There's power struggles going on here that are meant there's and and of course we have the commercial interest of all these back engineered breakthroughs that were secretly given out, and now they are worried about losing their rights to profits there's all kinds of the world is a battlefield and we all know that, but these guys really know it because it's a matter of life and death with them.

And when they will pull out a revolver and shoot you, okay, they do.

That's that's part of being a spy.

It's part of being a soldier.

Hey, I got to tell you.

I just got to bring this up because this is totally unrelated, but but I got to tell you.

I was approached last week by someone who is a drywall or a guy that does renovations.

Found a notebook.

So it sends me the scans of the notebook.

And I'm reading this notebook and it's really really interesting, and he talks about being a spy and they're out there, you know, basically hiding UFOs and all this stuff.

And so I'm reading it and reading it and reading it pages and pages and pages.

I don't know.

There's forty pages, all handwritten, and then all of a sudden it brings up bob Blazaar and then it talks out detail and detail in detail.

Well wait a minute, now, wait a minute, it's the whole thing was written to prop up bob Blazaar.

I mean, I could see right through it.

It was talking about oh, you know, it was casually mentioning killing people, casually mentioning driving around and you know the cars weren't all that good that they were driving, and the men in black and blah blah blah, and it said they would dress up as men in black and put stuff on their face.

And then when it got to Bob Bazar, just focused on Bob Bazar constantly, and and we were going to kill him, but Stanton Friedan came along and discredited him.

Thank god, now we don't have to kill him.

And you know, I mean it's it was a whole thing to prop up Bob Bazaar.

Someone put hours and hours and hours and hours.

So I told the guy, I said, you know, this is just a hoax.

Someone wrote it up, I guess in their spare time or whatever.

Yeah, and he said, well he chopps it in the dumpster anyway.

Okay, Well that's good and and that's that's uh.

And that's exactly what we have to watch all the time, you know, I know, every time I buy a piece of.

Art, guilty to proven innocent.

Yeah, look, look back there, do I see.

That one that portrait back there of the Young Lady Victorian era.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I have to know exactly whether or not this is a hoax because it's my money.

Okay.

So that's some of the interesting things that I've found in the investigation.

You know, these are some of the things that you can find in the book, and I've detailed it.

I've tried to be detail oriented.

So let me just we're right here at the end.

But I just want to ask you, do you think this is still going on now?

Yes, and we have the better equipment now, we have all types of way of sensing things.

Absolutely, So this is just stop you understanding.

Now, here's what I want you to know.

That is in the next book that I should get released by next month.

I'm pretty much finished writing it.

I still have to get the thing processed and add the images that I want to it.

But it's written, and it lists all the CIA documents that you can look up and read the stories themselves.

So I've got that compiled.

Okay, But what was the point I was going to make.

I'm sorry, it's bedtime here in Ohio.

Yeah, yeah, but you're you're coming out in about a month or so after you get all the pictures and everything compiled this new book.

Right, But what was the point you were asking about?

Because it just what is it going on today?

Possibly?

Oh?

Yeah, what is it going on today?

Yeah, yes it is.

You can.

I've got four the highest detailed freedom of information acts ever released that go to the CIA, the MPI seeing which of course is no longer is now that but it's still under the CIA.

I mailed them off four weeks ago during the government shut down.

I couldn't enter some of them electronically because the government was shut down and I'm wasn't willing to wait.

I got one rejection already.

Because I can't afford to do all this research.

I offered them, here's one hundred dollars.

Get started on it, and then I rewrote again the government clauses where because I'm working for a report to the Congressional Oversight Committee, that you have to do this.

I wrote to President Trump.

I wrote to the House of Overside Committee, I said, can you do something about this?

Because I offered them one hundred dollars, just get the damn things started.

I've got four detailed, the highest detailed, most specific search of all these various places that have to be searched.

There's a whole trove of information that goes from one department to another.

In other words, when the National Photographic Interpretive Center sent something to NASA sent their photographs back to them, there had to be a listing of the receipts, the times, and the methodologies that were done that.

And these are the things that I've got.

List of the data that will turn something up if they're forced to do it, so that will be in the book and these things.

And of course there's things in the National maarkt.

There's more I want to search, but I need to get this out now because it's time NASA and you know, I mean there's NASA records that are going to compile and match with the National Photographic Conterpreative Center and they're going to provide this information.

You know, I had to include all the things about yes, I want whatever you have.

And here's the law that says you can't redact everything out of it.

And if you do a reaction the losses, you have to give me the reason why it's redacted.

You have to do an extensive you know, I wrote five and for you acts for the first books.

Okay, so I got five of them in there didn't get anything back, but that was because I was doing searches then before I knew that NASA was taken out of the loop.

And that's the most one of the most important things.

This is news.

Okay, you're letting some news today, Okay, that NASA was not in control of those photos graphs playing example.

If that's not world shaking news, I don't know what is.

And the other world shaking news.

You haven't seen anything but the third a third generation NASA photo of those early things that's own NASA document.

Those two things right there make this podcast pretty newsworthy, okay.

And it's not me saying it.

You can read it, and it's not you're reading someone's falsified, like you say, pulling the wall over your eyes like a yellow drywall guy tried to do.

You're not reading that.

This is the CIA reading room, and this is also the NASA NASA oral histories.

Okay.

So the stuff that I'm presenting here from observation is the best that I can do to provide scientifically corrobable information.

Of that, I'm pretty But those are two thirty pretty important things right there, and that's pretty newsworthy.

I think.

I think when you say, when I can show you the actual CIA document, I don't think I've got a cock there here.

I mean, I've got all that this stuff.

And you know, I'm writing books, and every time I write a book, it's like it is that, Oh, well look at this, it's like there you go, kids, take a picture of that.

Ah.

Those are the documents, those are the statements, they're the CIA reading room things, and that's going to be that's the foundation for the book that's coming out now, plus a lot more information too.

I went through hundreds of pages of the CIA reading room stuff, because that's what you and I do, don't we.

You and I got to go to an oxyten somewhere together.

Are you in New York?

Where do you live?

No?

Well, South Carolina this sum of year.

But New Hampshire Portsmpshire are on the coast.

What's the big auction house uPAR?

I did it?

And who was it?

Skinner?

I used to do a lot with skin this skinner.

This bottom has bought skinners now out there and you know, but there's you know, a good friend of mine runs an auction house.

He's so busy up there in Amesbury masks, and yeah, there's a lot going on.

There's uh, I'm trying to think besides, but anyway, there's there's a lot of auctions in the whole area up there.

I tell you what, You and I could have a ball the stuff that the stuff that we find is just so interesting to us.

And I'm glad you could do a podcast on the for auctioneers and stuff.

But yeah, you and I could go on and on about the work minds that we have.

And I love galleries.

I love those guys.

Oh yeah, they're great.

They're great with paper documents are great, right, And that's.

What I and that's what I do.

So that's why I but they haven't heard from me for a couple of years.

They haven't heard from me since I found this a UFO archive.

Hey you never know that stuff could go well too.

But anyway, thanks so much.

It's been a real pleasure.

I've had a lot of fun and I like your energy and uh so, yeah, we'll stay in touch and see what happens down the line here with what else you.

Do, I mean, just share with you what I think before we go, and I appreciate it.

There's so much more could tell you But my last thoughts this, If what you've heard tonight sounds extraordinary, wait until you see it, folks.

The real power of this investigation isn't just in the analysis.

It's in the images themselves, the film, the photographs, the original NASA evidence that was never meant to be public.

The Simpkins and lithograph is just the beginning.

The D fifteen RCA footage from the National Archives, the sixteen thousand frames NASA never showed the public, will absolutely astound you because what you're looking at isn't just the UFO case.

It's part of humanity's enlightenment.

It's a monument where we finally see what was always right in front of us.

So, if you want the full story, the documents, the science, the cloud patterns, the time stamps, the oral history testimony.

If you want the complete investigation, it's in my books.

You have to actually see it for yourselves and believe your own eyes.

And I hope that Seth sent you a uh, Seth has the availability.

I think you got that D fifteen footage from his link.

It's called Gemini eleven UFO and eleven is spelled x hi for and you get that.

Yeah, if you go to that site.

You can download the iman and it looks like he gave you the Did you get the entire film?

I'm not sure, but if I have your permission, I know we're live.

Yeah.

I link this stuff on the show notes.

I'd like to share it with everybody.

No, no, that's what I want.

I want Seth.

Seth is my technical advisor.

Kids, I don't know anything.

I'm an old man.

You know.

I'm doing my best to die and get the heck out of your way.

But I'm no better at that than I am at running a computer.

So Seth go to guy and he's so, yeah, well, thank you.

This is live.

Yeah, we've been live the whole time.

You mean people out there listening.

Yeah, I hope nobody wrecked the car.

Guys, don't these things are there for you to see that.

I'd always like to give that warning.

This is fascinating stuff, and I'm so glad that he gave me a chance to speak to everybody.

I hope that people take an opportunity to take over.

Okay, I've done about the best I could.

This book that's coming out, it's it's going to be well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens.

But kids, somewhere out there, you don't even know it.

There's a matter of synchronosity in this life.

One of you out there is listening to this broadcast and guess what You're going to make the next breakthrough after I'm dead, But remember when that happens.

And I'm the one who told you that.

So I'd love talking with you.

Thanks, guys, all right, great, all right, you take care now.

All right, all right everyone, so thanks so much for being here tonight.

And this Thursday at eight pm, we have a New York Cup that and his brother Chris and Sean O'Leary, and they are going to be talking about they've had abductions for a long time and we're gonna be talking about that and a lot more.

Thank you all for being here, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.