[SPEAKER_00]: This is the biggest sin that I see all businesses commit.

[SPEAKER_00]: They think about what is convenient for me to sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: What would I like to buy?

[SPEAKER_03]: They don't stop with me, sobriety.

[SPEAKER_03]: Zero entrepreneur, shark taken vester, and founder of King Kong.

[SPEAKER_03]: One of Australia's fastest growing digital agencies where he's generated over $7.8 billion in sales for clients.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know my prospect, I know them better than they know themselves, I know the questions that they're thinking about that's keeping them up at night, tossing and turning at 3am that they don't even tell their partner about.

[SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, Sabre reveals how to build a brand that people obsess over why scarcity and friction make your brand more desirable and how to generate customers on demand.

[SPEAKER_00]: In any given market, only 3% of a market is looking to buy right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yet most people, their whole business, is orchestrated around putting our offers, ads, and content that only serves the 3% of the market that's looking to buy right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: We dive into the psychology of court-like brands, the mistakes most businesses make, and the blueprint for creating a brand that commands attention and premium pricing.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you sell a commodity, it's never going to increase your status.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you can go on to Amazon Prime and order something, that's never going to give you status.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing that you need to do is, by the end of this episode, you're gonna have your customers begging to pay you for what you're selling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sobre, what are some of the biggest brands in the world like Apple, Rolex?

[SPEAKER_03]: What do they understand about buyer psychology that the smaller business owners don't?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're just, they study how humans act when the scarcity involved and they're not afraid of tapping into humans psychology.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think most brands and businesses [SPEAKER_00]: They are conducting business like they're in the dark ages.

[SPEAKER_00]: They lay out all of their wares.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're in a market.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, they say, this is the price and the person heckles on price.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's a bit of back and forth, and then there is a deal done.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is no seduction that is involved in most branding and businesses.

[SPEAKER_00]: When.

[SPEAKER_00]: luxury brands, they understand that there is a dance, right, that that sales is seduction and they they fully weigh into all of the psychological triggers that they need to do to get people to buy and it's an orchestrated event.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't look at it as just a one time thing that happens.

[SPEAKER_00]: They really look at it as what is this starting of a relationship and how is it going to look like when it pans out over years to come?

[SPEAKER_01]: We love the videos that you put out about, like, how Rolex brain washes you to buy their product or how Louis Vuitton does the same thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: What can a small business owner, or a business owner that isn't a luxury brand?

[SPEAKER_01]: What can they take away from what these luxury brands do and how they, in quotes, brain wash you to buy their stuff?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what can the regular person take away from what these big brands do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a great question.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the first thing that you want to look at is, okay, well, what are the things that they're doing to make people want to buy their stuff?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, they don't make their stuff available.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you can't.

[SPEAKER_00]: There is scarcity involved in it from the jump.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most people, they have some kind of scarcity in their business, but they just don't advertise it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if there is service-based business, there's only certain amount of clients that they can take on per month.

[SPEAKER_00]: right, however they don't advertise that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just by saying that you only work with 10 new clients per month, that automatically increases the perceived value of whatever it is that it is you're selling.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the same thing goes for like having inventory and products.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's about, when something, we value things that aren't in wide supply.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if there is no scarcity that is been built in how you're selling things, [SPEAKER_00]: then it's gonna not be very, very desirable.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there's so many psychological triggers that you can pull, scarcity is one of them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a big one that is so easy that most people don't use at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is so easily tactically installed in any business.

[SPEAKER_00]: If your e-com, it's as simple as putting a section on your product page that says X amount of products in stock or limited availability, just inserting those little things increases conversion rates dramatically.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think by and large, the thing that these luxury brands do better than anybody is manage the relationship over the long term.

[SPEAKER_00]: How is it that they treat you?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it look like from the moment that you walk in the store to how they take down your name?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it your first time in here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because they really understand that [SPEAKER_00]: That first sale is made, not to make a sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's made to start a relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not trying to just make money off that first purchase.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to welcome you to their family, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And bring you into their world and their world builders.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that a lot of people were hate on them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people hate on the strategies and it is that they deploy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like I always say, it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: You don't play hate, don't hate the player, hate the game.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this stuff works, and there's a reason why universally you can see them being applied.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a reason why companies like Apple, they steal all of these strategies from luxury brands.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: If you go in to get the new iPhone that just dropped, and let's say that you didn't pre-purchase it online and you walk in store.

[SPEAKER_03]: what you call them up and you like do you have any of this burn orange iPhone and they're like no and you're like when are you getting it in and they're like we don't know right that is so funny that you say that because I just went I got the new I got the new I know this really pissed me off I go in there I get the new iPhone first they make a stand in a little line and I'm already a little but hurt about the line I'm like no I pre-ordered the thing but I just just stand in the line I'm like okay yeah that's fine same guy behind me's like why am I staying in the line [SPEAKER_03]: I hear, you know, you can hear it like as you're in the line that we go up, I get the iPhone, like, I love the new pair AirPods, he goes, oh, we don't have them here.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, what do you mean you don't have them here?

[SPEAKER_03]: It was this thing, and I heard the guy next to me saved me, he's like, I loved to add this to my order, he goes, we don't have any here.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you just dropped them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why is there none in the software?

[SPEAKER_02]: That's wild.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's crazy because it's so true.

[SPEAKER_03]: What have you taken from what these luxury brands do and kind of built this world for King Kong for your clients?

[SPEAKER_03]: When they do decide to build a relationship with you guys and we want to work with you, what does that look like?

[SPEAKER_03]: How do you make them feel special?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's everything, and it's something that I have very much orchestrated within my business.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most people are very aware of a funnel, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They see my ads, they see my funnel, they think that's where it all begins.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the front end funnel, then you have the whole customer journey funnel, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So what happens the moment that somebody actually decides to sign up with you, sign a contract and send it back?

[SPEAKER_00]: right so it's orchestrating those well moments having it so it's like they get a welcome letter from the founder that's handwritten they get a welcome box it has all the swag in there there's again letters from the team there's postcards as handwritten things in there and then [SPEAKER_00]: We look at what that customer journey looks like over a 12, 20 more 24, 36 month period, and we've architected at certain points in that journey to really surprise and delight people, whether it's something as simple as sending brownies to them or their account manager writing them like a postcard and sending it to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of the small things that it is that [SPEAKER_00]: It's something like 70% of all the cancellations that have happened within a SaaS business or any business that has recurring revenue.

[SPEAKER_00]: That decision is made within the first 14 days of them signing up for it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got like 14 days to really surprise and delight them and we've all seen it right We've all seen like people first they judge you from your sales team and how that interaction is with the sales team And then based off that then it's like that you're just people are just waiting for you to let them down [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And most people are like, they go through it with that mindset and then anything that you do that supports that they're like, oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in in term what you need to do is you need to do so much showmanship and like, [SPEAKER_00]: juggling the fire, batons, and doing all this stuff just to be like create a world for them that feels special and you're surprising and delighting them.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Disney knows this best.

[SPEAKER_00]: Disney have a saying that it takes 37 magical experience to overcome one tragic experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you need to orchestrate what all those magic occurrences are going to be in your business.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've certainly done it in mind, but it's about making the ordinary extra ordinary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just having like, oh, like, welcome to the team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's your scheduling link.

[SPEAKER_00]: How can you dress that up?

[SPEAKER_00]: How can you make that a bit more special?

[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of these things don't cost a lot of money, but they go a long way.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is that something that you learn from maybe a mentor or just by getting your reps in business or was it something where you started making a little bit more money started shopping at these fancier stores and you really started pulling from these luxury brands like how did you realize that to stand out and to keep customers coming back I needed to dress certain things up and really have that showmanship over the first 14 to 30 days.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it comes down to the decision of are you going to be a premium provider to begin with right once you make the decision of like yes I want to come on premium prices and in order to come on premium prices then I need to have a premium service then once you make that decision yeah like I learned a hell of a lot from staying at the finest results in the world shopping at the biggest brands in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, like, while I'm not like a big brand guy, like I'm not going out there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not drip down Gucci and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like to go to the finest hotels that there are in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like they are an incredible learning ground for how you treat people at a certain level.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I go.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a student of markets.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like to see what are some of the most weird obscure things that very, very rich people [SPEAKER_00]: different what are all these little small details.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, even if I was retired $100 billion in the bank, like I'm fascinated by business.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, anywhere that I go, I'm always looking at those kind of things and paying attention to the small details.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I learned a lot from like four seasons, from a lot of these big brands, the Armand Group having phenomenal hotels all around the world, any concierge services, I like to sign up to a very expensive concierge services, gems, all of those kind of things that, okay, what is it that these guys are doing to retain their customers that can be the most finicky and like nitpicking clients of all time and let me adopt some of those into my business.

[SPEAKER_03]: What have you noticed from selling a more premium product?

[SPEAKER_03]: Verse, maybe when you were starting out and you were selling something that was more low ticket that most people maybe could afford.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like what have you noticed about that relationship with your customers?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's the old adage.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you can sell something for like $2.99 in the person, like, expects the absolute universe for you and they're like, oh, they're constantly questioning everything and then, you know, I've got clients that pay a million dollars a year and it's just like, I've wired the check.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like that whole thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, you want to serve people that have money.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just do, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you from experience is I have, I sell a suite of services all the way down from $2.99.

[SPEAKER_00]: up to multiple millions of dollars per year and dealing with the people that are spending a huge amount of money, there are a lot less headaches in the people that you're giving stuff about basically to them for free, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it just goes to the case in every single market.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw like a thing from like Jack Mar, you know the founder of Ali Baba and he's like, [SPEAKER_00]: if you sell things for two cheap, they say that it's a scam, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you sell things at like the medium, the middle of the market, and you're serving the middle of the market, they'll more or less say to you, it's too expensive, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They'll, they'll, they'll kind of, if you're not at the lowest end of the market, immediately it was, you're too expensive.

[SPEAKER_00]: But all the money is made in the high-end services and selling premium products to premium people.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the things that I've observed more often than not, is the clients that pay me the most amount of money, scrutinize it the least amount.

[SPEAKER_01]: When you buy something more expensive, you feel like you get status from it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like the classic example is someone goes to buy a Ferrari because they want to show it off.

[SPEAKER_01]: They get status.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have an expensive car.

[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way to have status in your business when somebody buys your product or uses your service?

[SPEAKER_01]: If it isn't a quote unquote luxury item, like is there a way to have someone feel like they got status through working with you if you're not selling [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it comes down to it being scarce, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Human beings, since the dawn of time, has valued things that are scarce, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We started with trading spices and then gold and like gems and rubies and all of those kind of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that there is a way to make things scarce regardless of what it is that you sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you sell a commodity, right, it's never going to increase your status.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you can go on to Amazon Prime and order something, that's never going to give you status.

[SPEAKER_00]: available to everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing that you need to do is constrain the supply of what it is that you've got and that can be you might be selling at a premium price point, you might not but no matter what price point that you sell, you are limited by how much you can sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: So just advertise it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just talk about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second thing is what is the unboxing experience?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the showmanship in it?

[SPEAKER_00]: That when somebody gets it, they feel a certain way.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they want to share that moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's a whole thing right now where restaurants are like fitting out their bathroom.

[SPEAKER_00]: because they know, like, really high end because they know when people go to these restaurants they're taking selfies in the bathroom, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's sending a message about themselves that they're at this restaurant and elevating their status.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it really comes down to one, making sure that it's not in wide supply, and then two, [SPEAKER_00]: thinking about what is like the dopamine that I'm going to inject in someone's brain, the moment that they receive this, or they buy it, and how can they share it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, them feeling status is just an association with something that is going to increase their status, so that they're that's the kind of the lines that you need to read between.

[SPEAKER_03]: Flag on the play.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's going on, Fig.

[SPEAKER_03]: I have to tell them about an amazing offer.

[SPEAKER_03]: We got two months or free for the Rock for the best music, best sound effects on the planet.

[SPEAKER_03]: And what would that be?

[SPEAKER_03]: It's our list, I know.

[SPEAKER_03]: Of course it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know what's crazy though?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is it's not just music and sounds.

[SPEAKER_03]: Got stock footage, stuff that I'm actually using and an ad that I'm making right now for a client.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you have a commercial free license to use this stuff forever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which kind of wild?

[SPEAKER_01]: What I think is crazy is if you've been a fan of this podcast you're listening week after week, we talk about art lists so much, but you still haven't gone and got the two months for free.

[SPEAKER_03]: you're literally making a massive mistake.

[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever platform you're using right now, I just know that there's a way better option out there and there are sponsor of our show.

[SPEAKER_03]: It directly helps the rocks.

[SPEAKER_03]: It directly helps you because you're going to have the best music and literally your clients will be like, where the heck are you getting this stuff?

[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody needs music.

[SPEAKER_01]: God, he might as well use our language.

[SPEAKER_03]: Might as well use the best option in the business.

[SPEAKER_03]: Go check it out, top link in the description.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's keep a roll on.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's so true with the bathroom selfies because every time the girls go out through, they're in the bathroom for 30 minutes.

[SPEAKER_03]: They love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That photo is going on the ground with the location right after it.

[SPEAKER_03]: On the top, give of scarcity with your products.

[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of the time I notice people make a wait list and you famously talked about this about building a wait list for like some of the products.

[SPEAKER_03]: Is that something that you notice still works now?

[SPEAKER_03]: Or do you feel like it has been overplayed in people are conscious?

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to join this wait list right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just curious to hear your take as someone who's at a lot of success with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it definitely works as effective as it did a thousand years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the human brain is not going to change, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to make things that are hard to get, you're always going to want them, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the way that it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even, you know, we were just discussing you went into go and get like your iPhone and get the AirPods and then we're talking about it and then we're syndicating out to a whole bunch of people that the AirPods are actually hard to get.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then it's like, if you get into a conversation with a guy, the coffee shop, [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, oh, they're the new AirPods and I was like, yeah, like, and it's like automatically, you know that it's harder to get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you want it even more.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even when you're conscious of these things, it does not matter.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's still you can't physically get it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you want it more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Women know when they go into biobirken bag, they know the dance, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes it even more desirable for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they're in a restaurant, they're in a fine restaurant, they're into buy, they look over and the lady next to them has the Birken bag and they're on the wait list.

[SPEAKER_00]: That automatically increases their perceived value of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when Oermaids calls them up and being like, [SPEAKER_00]: Cindy, your bag is arrived.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like, they don't even ask the color.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're just they're getting out the A-Max immediately and they're running down the store to buy that thing because they've made them go through all the whole song and dance, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I spoke about how like sales is seduction.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of this stuff, it's like it's very close parallels to the dating world.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like if you're trying to date somebody and they're a little bit reserved or they're hard to get then you're gonna be more into them.

[SPEAKER_00]: right, even then they're just widely available.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even if you're aware of the game, it's like it's got to be done.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even if there's the game, you're like, I still want to play and like, I don't care.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of, man, I'm a sucker for that too.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if something's hard to get, I'm just like, man, it makes me want it even more.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you know the games that they're playing or you know the white list, it just, yeah, I'm saying it time and time again and it never stops working.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're like super conscious when you are going to, you know, shop at these expensive hotels or restaurants or shops or you just, [SPEAKER_01]: paying attention to what they're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I've got the notebook out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm taking notes, but also I have to be on my toes because these people know me now.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like, oh, oh, oh, the detective's coming in, kind of a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I rolled up to the Rolex store and he's like, I love your videos and I'm like, okay, I'm done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can't come to internet daddy, here we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not that he came in, like so much so that I even signed up to like a high-end gym recently, and So I went in and did the tour and then I my assistant emailed me like with an email that they had sent me of being like [SPEAKER_00]: We're very familiar with the internet that his work was filming today.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, no, I wanted to sign up like this is legit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not shooting a video on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I'm definitely, I'm always researching places to go and a part of it is obviously I like the enjoyment of going to these places when I work really hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also, it's education, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Seeing how people do things at certain levels.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, [SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting when you go and you your state or hotel chain or you go to a brand at all different corners of the world and you see how they maintain that quality and how it doesn't matter what country that you're in it's still that they provide that same level of experience.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that just shows like back to the question of like, does it work?

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter with your in Hong Kong or your in Beverly Hills or Australia or Madrid.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're all using the same things and it's all working the same way on people that were raised in different cultures and it still works.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were laughing because we saw your video about the gym.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were like, I signed up for $2,000 a month gym because I don't want to be around for people.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I fucking love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like so true.

[SPEAKER_03]: When you come out here, we have to take you to Monarch, because Monarch is a very nice gym that we go to out here, and it's a similar price point.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like 2,000 a month, but you know, I mean, I used to work out at 24 our fitness man and Monarch's a lot different than 24 our fitness.

[SPEAKER_03]: So before I finish, you walk in the bathroom, so it's a war zone in there, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're gonna see like 20 naked dudes you're like, holy shit, what's going on, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's piss all over the floor.

[SPEAKER_02]: No one's been in there to clean it and like weeks, you're like, oh my God.

[SPEAKER_01]: You got like the one dude in the sauna.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the one in the sauna.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the one in the sauna.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got a vault dude.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you got a vault dude.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's a guy doing parkour in the corner.

[SPEAKER_02]: It like the one dude as the advent you all know I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_02]: every person who works at a 24 hour like an L.A.

[SPEAKER_02]: fitness, you know that one character you walk in your like Dave's here again.

[SPEAKER_02]: God damn it.

[SPEAKER_00]: 100% it's that it's those gym names where you walk in, you look in one corner and yeah, there's something good like doing like a naked headstand, the other one's like.

[SPEAKER_00]: some guy shadow boxing, it's a wild experience.

[SPEAKER_03]: Could you explain to us what information asymmetry is?

[SPEAKER_03]: You talked about this in a YouTube video, and we found there was, I believe, a nine-step process.

[SPEAKER_03]: You were talking about what brands do.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really curious if you could break down a few of them.

[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe you don't know them right off the top of your head again, but if you could break down information, asymmetry would be awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just basically what these big brands do is they remove prices and they control all of the information in a cell cycle so that you need to engage with them and that they are in a place of power and you are not right it's like you try on the jacket you're like I like this and it's like there's no price tag on it it's like first of all.

[SPEAKER_00]: how much is this right or is this in available or do you have this in a medium so you're always having to go for them for information and then it's like we don't have any of those in stock or let me go check the back and then they go check the back and then you're like you won't believe it I've got one more medium left right or you go in to get the Birkin bag and it's like okay what else have you bought?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me bring up your profile.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have the Kelly?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's effectively them holding back information at every single step so that they are always in control of the buying cycle and you never have the authoritative frame regardless of what your social status is, how much money that you have in the bank, what's going on?

[SPEAKER_00]: when you walk into those stores, they use information asymmetry to completely and utterly control that buying cycle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you're like, oh, I'll spend 500 grand on this bag.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care, they're like, it doesn't matter, sir.

[SPEAKER_03]: Have you found that adding friction into like your sales process?

[SPEAKER_03]: If someone goes on King Kong, they can't access an email immediately.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have to go fill out a form, they've just signed up for a little 30 minute consultation.

[SPEAKER_03]: Have you found that that makes the buyer so much more qualified?

[SPEAKER_03]: Then maybe when you were starting out and you just had Cybersubiogmail.com, you can email me and we can chat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, the typical rule is the lower the price point, the less the friction.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at Amazon, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They do everything they possibly can to reduce as much friction.

[SPEAKER_00]: One click ordering.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of these things are based on a way when you're buying commodity products, the experience is quick, McDonald's, fast food, I'm in, I'm out.

[SPEAKER_00]: The higher the ticket, the more friction that's involved.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like when you go to a fine restaurant, they're not bringing all the food out at once, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They're bringing the starters, and then they're gonna partner the mains with the third and dishes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be a whole flow to that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the same thing when you walk into a luxury store, and they're like, first of all, they hold you at the front of the store and they say, just wait here, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to line up like a pleb at the front of the store.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they do that and then they bring you in and then they're like you can come in, you know, this person will be available to help you in five minutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then you're browsing around the store, please take a seat.

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you like sparkling water?

[SPEAKER_00]: Then the person comes out and say, you can't even speak to anybody about buying anything without the whole it's 30 minutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the same thing, the higher the ticket, the more of a pull sale it needs to be and less of a push.

[SPEAKER_00]: So most people get caught up in push where it's like, they're kind of making hard offers to people.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're trying to incentivize people to buy right now where the opposite is true, the higher the price that it is that you want to send.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's all these hoops that you need to jump through in order to qualify yourself to even get into a position.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's this relative on the price scale of whatever you sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: The higher the price, the more of a wholesale and the more exclusive and the more friction that needs to be involved and the lower the sale, the less friction and the easier that you want to make it for people.

[SPEAKER_01]: On the topic of friction.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are there any practical things that somebody listening to this, whether they're selling a physical good or something digital?

[SPEAKER_01]: that they can incorporate into their sales flow or let's just take somebody in the digital space.

[SPEAKER_01]: If they're selling a online course or they have digital products that they're selling, what is some ways that they can either create friction or other ways within the like sales flow that they can generate a more qualified buyer?

[SPEAKER_00]: So for instance, if somebody needs to fill out a form in order to speak with your sales team, there should be legitimate qualifying questions with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: For instance, in my business, we legitimately have qualifying questions in order to qualify for specific products.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you go through that and you don't have any money, we're going to save your time and just say, unfortunately, it's not a great fit right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Please go and get a free copy of this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: This will help you get to the stage that you want to.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or you might want to work with our agency.

[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, you're not a great fit based on the information that you've given us.

[SPEAKER_00]: However, we also have a course that you could go through and you could do it yourself and implement a lot of these tactics.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing is having actual qualification criteria that you're not afraid to tell people on the front end.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most people can't do that because they haven't generated enough demand for whatever it is that they're selling.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're trying to restrict flow when they don't even have enough flow to begin with.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first sign of a shitty marketer is that their prices are low because if their prices are low that means they don't have the skill to generate enough demand [SPEAKER_00]: So, you want to first do that on the front end and then also the things that you can do beyond that is that once you're on the actual call is even if they do seem like a great fit on paper is still qualifying them more and going through that whole process and that's not like a fake qualification.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is legit.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to run a good business with a good reputation and have customers stay with you for a long period of time, you need to be doing this stuff [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't do this, you're going to be onboarding a bunch of shitty clients and your life's going to be hell.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, then on the phone call, you want to further put friction in there of being like, okay, cool, like we only work with X amount of clients per month.

[SPEAKER_00]: If we were to extend an invitation for you to join our programs or work with our agency, would you have any problem in giving us a video testimony or the documents or the results we're getting you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I don't want to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: No problems and it's probably not going to be a great fit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, forcing them to take the extra step is like how serious are you about working with us?

[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most people are just saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, all the way through, where you want to actually test the person, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So the moment that you stop going from a cell frame and you're like, I need a cell this person and you're like, I need to serve this person, I need to qualify and see whether or not they're right fit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And literally asking them simple questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, cool, I've read all of this, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: What makes you a good candidate to work with us?

[SPEAKER_00]: You make them sell themselves.

[SPEAKER_03]: 100% go back to your to your book really quick.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because I've been hit with the ads.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure many of us have been hit with the ads for sell like crazy.

[SPEAKER_03]: What is the entire idea there?

[SPEAKER_03]: When did you start to write this book and then say, you know what, I'm going to give it away if people just pay for the shipping and handle.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was that to build brand, was it after you had made a certain amount of money and you were thinking about your marketing for the year and you're like, okay, I could spend $25 or $50,000 to print a bunch of these books and have them ready to rock and roll.

[SPEAKER_03]: If it means that someone gets into our ecosystem, maybe they, you know, look at a program, maybe their business grows and they learn a bunch from my free content and then they eventually work with King Kong, talk to me a little bit about your book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I would love to say it was like some brilliant orchestrated thing with all of things that you did explain.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it was a situation where, you know, I started my business from my bedroom, making 150 co-calls per day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very, very quickly once I got enough money in my bank account.

[SPEAKER_00]: I started to deploy that capital to actually demand generation writing ads and funnels that have people coming to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I outgrow my first office, outgrow my second office all within their lease terms, it sounds like a fun thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't super fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was very stressful.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I had way more demand than I could probably service.

[SPEAKER_00]: And basically, I was turning a down client's left right in center and they would basically say to me, do you know another agency that does good work that's not going to light my bank account on fire that you can refer to me?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I did a bit of research.

[SPEAKER_00]: I sent people to a few.

[SPEAKER_00]: It always came back to bite me on the ask because they weren't good operators.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, hey, I'm turning down thousands of people every single year that want to work with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have nowhere to send these people.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I took, [SPEAKER_00]: you know, the time to write a book and basically I was like cool, I'm going to launch with this book and I'm going to give people everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be a thinly veiled lead generation for them to come in and then work with my business.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to open up the vault and literally give all these people everything.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even going to be a pitch in the book anywhere for them to work with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to give all the secrets away and that's what I did.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think it would take off as much as it did where we've sold over a million copies [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there's been a lot of goodwill and brand that's come as a result of that and a lot of great opportunities, but in the beginning it was like, how do I serve people right?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do I send the elevator back down to people and help them and I realized early on that it doesn't cost any more to make your marketing valuable in itself than it was then it is if you just go out there and you make hard offers to people.

[SPEAKER_00]: but you get the whole benefit of building brand and all the good will that you create in the marketplace from helping people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most of the people that go and get that book for free are never ever going to work with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're never ever going to give me another sentence.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like, you know, there's a huge amount of people that read that book and then become clients.

[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, that does happen.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in the beginning, that wasn't the focus.

[SPEAKER_03]: Hope you're enjoying this episode real quick.

[SPEAKER_03]: Want to let you know about an awesome free product that we got linked in the description.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's our personal brand kickstart.

[SPEAKER_03]: What's in it?

[SPEAKER_01]: OK, we got five prompts for you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to help you define your personal brand, get clarity, and start posting content that really resonates with your audience.

[SPEAKER_03]: It'll literally take you less than 10 minutes, and it's been super apparent with all the guests that we've had on our show.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have really strong personal brands and it's allowed them to scale their businesses.

[SPEAKER_03]: So go check it out, top link.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's keep it rolling.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you recommend, [SPEAKER_01]: business owners who are selling a product or a service that is extremely expensive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you recommend them having a lower tiered thing or a free thing that they can give to them or offer them to like keep them in the ecosystem is that a strategy that you've seen worked for you and like other people?

[SPEAKER_00]: product that you sell is free, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's free for you, but it does cost the prospect of their time, which is the most valuable currency that they've got.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, any given market only 3% of a market is looking to buy right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yet most people, their whole business is orchestrated around putting out offers, ads and content that only serves the 3% of the market that's looking to buy right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: then you have like, you know, a further 17% that realistically a kind of in information gathering mode, they're open to buying, but they're not in the market to buy right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you put out free content, you have, you know, what I call a high-value content offer, which is a free report or a PDF, or it can be a video training that you give people for free.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I like to think about it as [SPEAKER_00]: all markets exist around one universal problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you wanna have different products and services to help people wherever they're at on that journey.

[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, [SPEAKER_00]: My business is centered around the number one problem that all businesses face, which is how do I get more customers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I need to have free YouTube content.

[SPEAKER_00]: I need to have a book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I need to have low ticket offers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I need to have courses.

[SPEAKER_00]: I need to have agencies.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to have something that is a product suite where I can meet my customer wherever it is that they are.

[SPEAKER_03]: What were some of the things that you noticed about yourself that you maybe had to change as the business was rapidly growing?

[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned like you're breaking through two different leases you're trying to get into a bigger building.

[SPEAKER_03]: You're hiring a shit ton of people.

[SPEAKER_03]: What were things that you noticed that you're like, man, I have to change this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like this specific thing needs to change or we're going to be fucked moving forward and that you changed it and obviously it continued to grow into this amazing business that it is today.

[SPEAKER_00]: fulfillment operations it's very easy to when you're a skilled marketer is to make an offer and to get people to buy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a different beast to build an organization with a hundred plus people and management and leadership and for filling on that service delivery at scale.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's why most agencies never get to any significant scale because it's like playing business on nightmare mode, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You've got all these human beings in there, you're executing on all these different things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And realistically it comes down to your leadership ability.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the beginning, when it's a small team, it's a lot easier than once you start growing and there's multiple tiers of management.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in any single business, the constraint of that business is the founder.

[SPEAKER_03]: You talk about in a book, I believe you said, the founder needs to inject a fire onto the team in certain areas.

[SPEAKER_03]: How do you do that at scale when you have that many fucking people?

[SPEAKER_03]: And you're dealing with so many different, like little groups in personalities in the company.

[SPEAKER_03]: And keep yourself fresh, go into this group and be like, okay, today I need to work on the opposite.

[SPEAKER_03]: Today we need to work on fulfillment.

[SPEAKER_03]: What does that look like?

[SPEAKER_03]: As someone who's growing a business, I'd love to know.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing to understand is that the potency of that energy and fire is the most intense at the top.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it starts with the founder.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can't project out something that you don't have within yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing is like, am I sold myself?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is the problem that we're solving?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is the mission?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is the vision?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because unless you wake up every day and you know exactly where it is that you're trying to go to and what that goal looks like and you believe it down into the marrow of your bones, you can't transfer it to your management team.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first step.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then every wrong of management in a company, that potency gets diluted.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're starting at 50%, you're not at 100%, that bottom, they're getting nothing, they're just getting water, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not getting that high frequency potency.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you need to first of all be very aware of yourself and you need to look after yourself, your energy, your body, you need to work out, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's whoever has the most energy makes the most money and all of the people that I know, all my billionaire friends, [SPEAKER_00]: focusing on health and energy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then so you need to make sure that you as a vessel have enough energy to give out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you need to have a very clear vision and mission statement for your company because you're not going to be interacting with the people that a frontline [SPEAKER_00]: So when they come into the company, just as we spoke about, what is the onboarding process look like for clients?

[SPEAKER_00]: What does it look like for your employees?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's your employee funnel like?

[SPEAKER_00]: From the ads that you run to recruit talent to then how you interview them, to what their onboarding is going to be like, are they very, very clear on your mission and vision statements?

[SPEAKER_00]: For me, I've got LED signs all around my office with my vision and mission statement constantly going everywhere and burning into the retinas of people's eyes that work out of these officers.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got them printed on the walls.

[SPEAKER_00]: I start all of our meetings with basically staying what our vision mission statement is, what the goal is that we're all going after.

[SPEAKER_00]: So no one wonders, what are we trying to do here?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is the goal here?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then making sure that you're spending the time and energy with your management team and you're injecting that fire and that heat into them so that they can pass that on to their team members.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the bigger the company gets, the clearer the vision needs to be.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's time to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm ready to go get big right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I might put, I might do a PR tonight.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're going to go in a bit of a base.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Greens co-founder Monday morning.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, dude, six a.m.

[SPEAKER_02]: Our me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't put it around.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm ready to go.

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go back to something you said.

[SPEAKER_01]: You said that the way you operate your business, your main focus is getting your clients more customers.

[SPEAKER_01]: and that is what they want.

[SPEAKER_01]: They want more customers.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I was watching a video last night and it liked light bulb moment for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: You said, do not sell what the person needs, sell what they want.

[SPEAKER_01]: Can you go into that theory because I think a lot of people when they're first starting out, [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, I know you need this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have something that can help you, but if they market it that way, people are like, I don't actually want this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So can you talk about marketing in a way for something that somebody wants versus you providing something that they need?

[SPEAKER_01]: But actually then giving them what they need.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the biggest sin that I see all businesses commit, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They think about what is convenient for me to sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: What would I like to buy?

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't start with what is the market absolutely starving for, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, say for instance, with my programs, the thing that I know that all everybody wants is they want to know a repeatable predictable way to generate high quality leads on auto pilot that come into their business and buy with the least amount of friction possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what everybody wants, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's exactly what it is that I sell because that's what the market is starving for.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then once you get involved in the program, then you figure out all the other things that it is that you need, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about mindset.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about your health.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about systems, operations.

[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about all of these other things that need to be in place.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if I spoke about that on the front end, no one is like going to come and buy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: everybody wants to be rich, nobody wants to get rich.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so they want easy button solutions.

[SPEAKER_00]: They want, you know, six pack abs with doing the least amount of work.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you would be stupid if you tried to sell them.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you're going to be working out for five hours a day like it like you need to sell what it is that they want and then give them what it is that they need.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're going to have to be tough if you're going to be stupid.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're going to go down the road of like, oh, no, I want to sell everybody what it is that they need, those people have a very hard life.

[SPEAKER_00]: We speak to business owners all day long that are on the verge of bankruptcy.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're really, really hurting.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have a system in place to get customers.

[SPEAKER_00]: And they've been trying to sell people vegetables, right, when people want the brownies to sell them the brownies and then just even what they need.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not like it's kind of like a Trojan horse tactic, but it's in a positive way because if you have the best product in the market place, then it is your moral obligation to get that into as many hands of the people as possible.

[SPEAKER_00]: and so you want to think about is somebody buys a product or service of one of my competitors, then I am doing them a disservice because I know those other products aren't as good as mine, because I bought them all, I've studied them all, and none of them are as good as mine.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you know that yours is the best, then you need to make it the most enticing, and then once you've gotten them on board, then you provide them the education of like these are [SPEAKER_03]: To get this outcome right and you've studied it all and you know it all on the topic of that I think back to when I was in high school this guy named Mike Chang six-pack short Yeah, do you remember this shit?

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you got here with these ads in Melbourne this fucking guy Well, everywhere dude ever sitting there Mike Chang was tell me to check in rice, man Now he was telling me about that fucking six-pack [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, dude, how do I get this six back?

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to be like this guy.

[SPEAKER_03]: Can you talk to me about all of the different funnels that you've seen be really successful?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what are the core things that you notice?

[SPEAKER_03]: When people come, you're like, oh my God, this is absolutely awful.

[SPEAKER_03]: Really quick fixes that you notice right off the bat, whether it's copy, whether it's content that's usually terrible.

[SPEAKER_03]: What are a few of those things that people can implement right away?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I think first of all, it's picking the right type of funnel for the price point that you're selling at.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most people are going to optimize for what is the easiest for them to have the money flow into their bank account.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're like, yeah, like, I'll just create this course.

[SPEAKER_00]: It will be $400.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll send them to a landing page and I'll get people to buy that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then every time they buy, it's $400.

[SPEAKER_00]: My bank account, I don't have to do anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, bro, that's not how it works, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not how the economics of online marketing work anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: In order to run that, you're going to be at break even.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll probably add a loss on the front end in order to get a customer into there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're not going to have any money.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where instead what you could do is, you could take that $499 a course.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could really package it, put more valuable in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you could sell it at five grand per month.

[SPEAKER_00]: You could put a sales call in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, you'd be making a shitload more money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing is like getting the economics right if you don't get the economics right it doesn't matter how good the marketing is right because the economics is the expectation of how much is it going to cost me to acquire a customer how much is a customer worth to me and how much profit am I going to make over the entire lifetime of that relationship.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then once you've got the economics in place, then it's like copy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like most people's copy is just horrendous.

[SPEAKER_00]: And now you've got like chat GPT and you go all these AI platforms.

[SPEAKER_00]: People have got just AI slop when it comes to copy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not what?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not how you say things.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's what you say.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing is understanding of like again coming back to what is it that I want to say, well, in order to know what it is that you want to say, you need to do the research, you need to figure out what people are buying in your marketplace emotionally, [SPEAKER_00]: And what is it that they are starving for?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first thing that you want to focus on is what is my market starving for?

[SPEAKER_00]: Not, what do I have to sell?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: You put what you've got to sell aside and you go out and you do the research and you say, what is it that they want?

[SPEAKER_00]: Forget what I've got, forget the business, the different price points, the economics, no, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll put that all over here and let me just figure out what it is that they want.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the way to figure out what it is that they want, [SPEAKER_00]: is where is the money flowing right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Then once you know what it is that they've got, you better be selling that and not some other shit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then you got, okay, I know what it is that they want because I've seen like the most ordinary funnels with the most basic copy, but they are selling something that people are starving for and these guys are making money hand over fist.

[SPEAKER_00]: where on the other end I've seen people with all the bells and whistles and their funnels, they're saying everything in the perfect way but they're not saying the right thing and these guys are struggling to make ends meet.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're the kind of levers then you go from like the headline, the price points, the copy, all of the objection handling in it, the flows off the back end of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of the 80-20, [SPEAKER_00]: Right, the 20% of input, so it's going to get you 80% of the results is first doing the research and finding out what people are buying in the marketplace and to sell that keep it simple.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the people with the most complex funnels have the least amount of money in their bank account.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I came across you for the first time, and I went through your funnel, and I bought your book, you had one of the most lit VSLs I've ever seen.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it was really long, and I want to know about your thought process when it comes to VSLs, are you still in the belief of, it should be like a, you know, 30 to 45 minute video, like where are you at on VSL specifically?

[SPEAKER_03]: And 20 to 25.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So your VSL should be as long as it needs to be in order to make the sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so in terms of when people are like, oh my God, who's gonna read all of this copy?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who's gonna watch all of this video?

[SPEAKER_00]: The person that's gonna do that is the buyer, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because the buyer's got questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not a buyer, you're not gonna watch a short beer cell.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to watch a long verse, so the whole thing is you want to make sure that questions are answered, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Education is provided and again, the higher the ticket, the more education that's involved.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going out and you know you're spending a lot of a huge amount of money, [SPEAKER_00]: then you're going to do a proportion and amount of education around that.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to go do a Pilates class and the first class is free, you're going to see where is the location, what does the fit out looks like?

[SPEAKER_00]: This looks good to me and you're going to go, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So the higher the ticket, the more education that's involved, [SPEAKER_00]: But it can't just be long for the sake of being long.

[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be educating as well and it has to be entertaining.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the way that I think about it is, I know my prospect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know them intimately.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know them better than they know themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know the questions that they're thinking about that's keeping them up at night, tossing and turning at 3am, that they don't even tell their partner about.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I know from the feedback that I get from my clients is that they watch all of that thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have, like, you know, I'm running VSL anywhere right now from 20 minutes or four minutes all the way up to 36 minutes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's just what you see on the front end.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then there's still another multiple series of videos that go out on the back end to educate people.

[SPEAKER_03]: That would be an email sequence you're saying.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, there's just like thinking about what is the whole series of steps that someone goes in in order to buy, email is one of them, but oftentimes once you book a phone call, then what happens, what's the page that you land on?

[SPEAKER_00]: I book the phone call now, what, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So understanding, like 70% of all B2B transactions, like of the research is done before they initiate your sales team.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think about you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys duck calls from your friends, from [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know I do like I'm so busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, I can't speak to this person right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then if you look at contact rates contact rates to get a lead on the telephone across all industries are in the absolute toilet right now and people do not want to speak to sales people.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's going to become more and more apparent with Robo calling AI, all of these things that are going to make it easier to call people.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be harder and harder to get people in the telephone.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then the VSL becomes infinitely more important because you're not even getting to open up that conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: So people are doing more research than ever and that's why like producing organic content and having YouTube and all of that kind of stuff is more important is because people want to see so much information that you prove that you are who you say you are before they reach out, before they do anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: So unless you have that stuff, you won't even get the opportunity to enter that conversation.

[SPEAKER_03]: In this new era of all the AI content, dude, I saw the craziest shit today.

[SPEAKER_03]: I saw this dude who was look like he's in his mom's basement, and he's like moving his hands, and it was like a gorgeous girl.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it was like, he had like a video.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was like a video of a girl, and it was like moving with him, and he was like smiling and shit on Twitch.

[SPEAKER_03]: Crazy as shit I've ever seen.

[SPEAKER_03]: But in this new era of AI, what do you think is going to be the route?

[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, you just stated it, a VSL is going to be super important.

[SPEAKER_03]: If people aren't picking up the phone, will it be done via DM?

[SPEAKER_03]: Or do you feel like people are so on edge with DM being like, oh, is this not?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is it you?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is it a sales rep?

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to know if it's actually sobrily that's hitting me up?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what do you think that process is going to look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that like there's gonna need to be more and more content that people consume before they feel like they're ready to do business with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think the things that we take for granted, the in-person events, seminars, all of that, they're going to see a huge resurgence as we move into this AI-slop world where you're going to have custom VSLs based on every single person you're going to be able to literally say their name and the VSL talk about their problems to them specifically or using AI.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've already seen this stuff, so that's where it's all going, and then once it goes fully in that direction, people are going to want to speak to humans even more.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that, like, as much as you can humanize things, that's what's going to make the difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everything is going to be perfectly said at the perfectly time, completely customizable, and then the things that people are going to appreciate more is like the raw organic stuff.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would I think I'm kind of freak out if like yeah the coast is you're sales funnel is mess [SPEAKER_00]: I've already happening, dude, they're one of the biggest offers online is like numeralogy.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if you put your name is, they do like a reading for you based on your birthday and stuff, and they just keep saying your name.

[SPEAKER_00]: This was three years ago, where basically they went through the effort of recording like the four and a half thousand most common names and then based on your name being in that, they would intersect that into the VSL like that they were doing a palm reading for you, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And now all of that stuff has changed because you've got 11 labs and AI.

[SPEAKER_00]: like it's only the beginning of how wild it's about to get.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought we were safe with unique names, you know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm just afraid.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm afraid there's a pretty every unique names.

[SPEAKER_03]: Are we in the 4,000?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't think we would be better.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was going back to your video, so I was laughing because I remember watching it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember watching it in bed and it was fucking, it wasn't quite 3 a.m.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it was probably 10, 30, 11.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: This motherfucker got me still watching, like, I'm tapped in.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in it 32 and we're like, we're still here.

[SPEAKER_01]: How is just so impressed with it?

[SPEAKER_01]: I do want to talk about your content flywheel because you brought this up to us on the pre-show call.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you're thinking about content differently than most people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to hear your take on, what is your content flywheel look like right now?

[SPEAKER_01]: And how does it look organic and then to the page side of things?

[SPEAKER_00]: I obviously produce organic content for my YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do that for several reasons.

[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is obviously just to provide value to my marketplace, regardless of whether or not they choose to do business with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it also is a way to get more reps in to also make better ads and to make beer cells.

[SPEAKER_00]: It used to be once upon a time, I'd shoot a new beer cell every six to 12 months and then launch it.

[SPEAKER_00]: how good are you going to get at only doing something twice a year, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So all now where things are at also organically, it's you're getting to get organic reach based on your ability to tell a good story to retain people's attention and do all of those things and I solely believe that that is definitely the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: but where most people do is they kind of stop at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the way that I approach it is, I put out organic content to help my audience, then I take the saw dust, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I take the scraps of those videos, the ones that are the outliers, and then do very, very well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, this is resonating organically.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I take that, I clip that up, chop it up, syndicate it across all of short form, and then get, you know, typically 20 to 30 times the views on short form that I do on long form.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then I take the long form and I insert 3 to 4 call to actions.

[SPEAKER_00]: In that video, maybe it's a 12 minute video, maybe it's a 20 minute video and then I run that and I use that as the paid engine on my ad side.

[SPEAKER_00]: So not only am I getting to put out organic content and get all of the goodwill and all of the source from that, then I get it as a raw material for my short form.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it also feeds the ads engine that I then run as well and bring in more customers that all funnels down to my core offer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Could you talk to me a little bit about the metrics you're trying to pay the most attention to with paid ads?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, is it click through rate?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is it someone's watch time?

[SPEAKER_03]: And then you're like, okay, if they watch half of this video, maybe I'll send them to another video that I think they might enjoy.

[SPEAKER_03]: What does that look like?

[SPEAKER_03]: And has your philosophy evolved over the years?

[SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, it comes down to what is, [SPEAKER_00]: the end outcome that you're trying to drive.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like so why am I putting out this, this ad, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it to drive a transaction?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it to generate a lead?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it to get somebody to book a call?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then whatever that metric is that we're optimizing for in the algorithm, that's the thing that we're going to be paying the most attention to, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So first of all, it's like cost per result.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to look at that and then we're going to look at what's the hook rate of the video, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I eat how many people are actually watching that and then staying beyond three seconds, beyond 10 seconds to watch the rest of it and looking at the CTR on it, but they're kind of like the big metrics that we wonder.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you guys said yourself, well, you know, you're running like a 26 minute video.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we run that as an ad as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you better know that I've tried five minute VSL, six minute VSL's, eight minute VSL's, 12 minutes, 15, 16, 22, 24, 36, all of the different lengths, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's crazy, like I'm running an ad right now that's an hour and nine minutes and it's crushing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it the whole thing of like, oh, you know, we're living in this thing where there's like short attention spans.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there are short attention spans, but it's something is interesting to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Either it is valuable to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why people watch three-hour Joe Rogan episodes.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's why people binge watch an entire season of Netflix.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not because like they're they're short on time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like why is long form?

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely crushing it right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this three minute?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sorry, there's three hour podcasts doing exceptionally well.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you find something that is interesting to people, they will pay attention.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you're running a one hour and nine minute VSL ad.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you know about how to keep someone's attention?

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm off of an ad, not even organic content.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what do you know about keeping people's attention at the average person doesn't because our an hour and nine minutes is crazy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have even thought to even think about running and add that long.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's clearly crushing through.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that the first thing that it comes down to again is understanding what to say.

[SPEAKER_00]: Think about you guys, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like whenever you've bought something and you're in the information gathering mode, if someone was to articulate very, very clearly to you, [SPEAKER_00]: The problem that you have that you're looking to sell and it's like everything that they say hits a hot button and it's like oh my god This is like this is what I need man.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I've been researching like you're not gonna click away You're like almost like let me not touch anything because I don't want this ad to disappear because this person is speaking directly to me [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing that you need to understand is like the people that you're targeting, you need to be saying the right thing to them and then it's obviously you need to have it in engaging way, there needs to be strong hawks and needs to be lots of cuts that go through, changing of scenes to keep people engaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: But one, if you can articulate the problem at their experiencing better than they can themselves, and then two, in the actual ad itself, you can start to prove that you have the solution to this by actually helping them solve that problem right in the ad.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the ad in itself needs to be valuable.

[SPEAKER_00]: It can't be a 36 minute pitch video where you're just talking about selling them.

[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be like, this is the problem that you've got, and then explaining it very, very intimately, all the visceral details of it, and then being like, and this is how we fix it, and then just start helping them fix it on the call.

[SPEAKER_00]: So in the actual ad, sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they can watch it and be like, fuck, this person knows what the hell they're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is amazing.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're actually providing value to me right now [SPEAKER_00]: This is wild, so that's the thing that you need to really be focusing about and in terms of retaining people's attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I am still, like, I would say, like, I've been, like, I made the decision at the start of the year to kind of get more serious about organic content.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't feel like I'm in a huge position to speak about that professionally yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that in the next 24 months, I'll be in a completely unrecognizable place in terms of organic content.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think I'll have more qualifications to be able to speak in it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I'm learning from like, [SPEAKER_00]: people that are at the top of the game in organic and figuring out how to apply all of that into my market.

[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned that you have a group chat with some of the most popular YouTubers on the platform like Iraq and some of these other guys, what have been a few of the key learnings that they've told you that you could share with our group today?

[SPEAKER_03]: that could really help them crush the organic content.

[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, I think that you can fucking talk about it because your videos are elite, like they really are so valued driven.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, you're generating so many organic views that people would have to pay hundreds of thousand of dollars for.

[SPEAKER_03]: So could it was to you for jumping into it?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because it's it's really high quality stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the the the first big thing is to speak at like a fifth grade reading level and understand that like most people that are on social media and on these platforms are like mice on crack.

[SPEAKER_00]: they are like they're so distracted you've got a video there there's all the sidebar videos are going there and you need to first speak it away that's not gonna alienate anybody in your audience in order to dumb it down.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at like the New York Times bestselling books over the last 20 to 30 years 80% of them are written at a six grade reading level or below.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so the first thing that people say is that they're like, oh, yeah, my audience isn't dumb though.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like they like I don't need to speak at a fifth grade reading level because I'm going after smart people and I'm like, okay, cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, to smart people read books, yeah, they do.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, terrific.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, 80% of them that are in the best sellers are written at this reading grade level.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like not using convoluted language and really, you know, intense vocabulary that somebody's like, I don't understand that.

[SPEAKER_00]: The moment that somebody doesn't understand it, you've lost them.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to go click on to something else.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the things that I look at is it's very difficult because I'm not in the entertainment slash spectacle world that a lot of these YouTubers that I speak to are right where they're sneaking into places they're lighting Lamborghinis on fire and they're doing this outrageous shit [SPEAKER_00]: And then on the other end of the spectrum, you've got like the talking head business community, which is like, so boring, just put me to sleep already.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I am trying to basically be in the crossroads of those two intersections where I'm making things that are entertaining to the masses that still provide a lot of value to them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the constant balancing act of retaining people's attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then making it so once they've watched the video it's not like I just consumed a bunch of empty calories fast food that I'm not better off and then providing them with enough value through that process where they're like I was entertained plus I learnt something from that and I think that like that's the chasm that I'm trying to master because I think that it's very difficult but [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, what you need to understand is that whatever it is that you're doing, you can hook somebody's attention in the first video, but if you don't provide them a good experience with watching that video, the next time your face shows up in the newsfeed, they're not going to click on the next video.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you've got to click Batem because that's what the platform is.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a click and watch platform.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a watch platform.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a click and watch.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what is again?

[SPEAKER_00]: It comes down to the same things in marketing.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are people want to click on?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that they want to watch?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do they want to watch me just sitting in a desk, talking about growing their business?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or do they want to watch me going in and trying to find the most mysterious luxury Rolex that I possibly can and taking you along for that journey?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot more clickable than the first option.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then how do I package up the veggies in that video?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you still watch it and you still get the education, but you also get entertained throughout that process.

[SPEAKER_01]: If someone wanted to start on the organic journey and start posting long-form in short form, but maybe they, or it as fucking well, spoken as you, maybe they don't have the business acumen that you do, they don't have the team to be able to film, shoot, edit, repackage, everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: What advice would you tell that person if it's just maybe a solo business owner and they know that creating content on the internet could generate more sales and more leads for their business, but they're a little bit newer to content creation and they don't have maybe a team that they can rely on.

[SPEAKER_01]: What would you tell that person?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like my opinion on this has recently changed.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would previously have told that person not to do it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say, like, don't worry about putting out organic content until, you know, you're at multiple millions per year, just focus on crafting ads, putting together an offer and just run traffic to it and get that to convert profitably.

[SPEAKER_00]: Forget organic content.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's all noise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, with the way things are changed, with the platform, I think TikTok completely changed the game, with, like, it's not about the amount of followers that you have at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's purely how good is the content that it is that you're putting out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, obviously, everybody is moved to adopt those same principles.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's happening with YouTube right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: You see, people on their first upload can crack 200,000 views, a million views, multiple million views.

[SPEAKER_00]: If the video is good enough in itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now I think that it does make sense to produce organic content.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that you want to do it, if you don't have a team, is everyone has got a phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully they've got an iPhone and they're not on an Android.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when they use that, that's the thing that they should be using.

[SPEAKER_00]: They shouldn't worry about doing a high polish edit or anything like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: They should commit to just putting out one video per day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it should be, it doesn't matter how shit it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm gonna do it, come hell or higher order.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna post a new video every single day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: And after you get enough reps in, you are gonna get good at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna think, okay, if I start the video like this, the video gets a lot more views, then if I start it like this, then once you do that, and you do it for three months, and you've got 90 uploads, you're gonna be able to look at that 90 pieces of content and figure out, [SPEAKER_00]: what does well and what doesn't and you're going to start to see patterns in the matrix of like okay and now I'm starting to understand how this goes then after you've done that for a year and you put out 365 pieces of content you are going to be good and then then and only then do you start going up like the value ladder then you're like maybe now I'll get a videographer right then you get a videographer and then you start now I'll get a full-time editor and I'll [SPEAKER_00]: Because the internet has basically made it so easy for people to start businesses, most people's news feeds are littered with gurus.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't know what the fuck that they're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And because they do not know what the fuck they're doing, people think that they do, they sign up, they have a bad experience, and then they become extremely skeptical.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it comes time to buy your thing, [SPEAKER_00]: They're not just going to go to your landing page and funnel and buy any more.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're doing the Google sniff test.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to your socials.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're clicking on the footer.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to tick doc Instagram.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be sus and out what it is that you're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So unless you do have content, then all of your ad performance is also going to suffer because people are going to be highly dubious and highly skeptical about what it is that you're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to start with anything, have it down and dirty, have it super geto to begin with, shoot on your iPhone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the content anyway is shot on the iPhone on these platforms, and that kind of raw, uncut organic thing is the thing that's actually doing the best anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: So don't look at it as a limitation, look at it as an advantage, and just get going.

[SPEAKER_03]: When you think about it right now for yourself is YouTube, when you go sit with your team, is that really where you're trying to put a lot of focus and then you have these clippers that are going, it will put on shorts, put on TikTok, put on Instagram.

[SPEAKER_00]: 100% like the the short form is the top of the funnel junk food that brings everybody people in right it's the one dollar cheeseburger that's going to get people into your world kind of thing but in terms of actually building influence it's time on brand and so the best time on brand platform right now is YouTube that's where people are consuming that's where most people consume the podcast [SPEAKER_00]: That's where most people consume content, where in a place where this year is the first year that YouTube has getting more time on screen than Netflix on television device.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that is the platform that you can build a lot of deep connections and goodwill with people.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm extremely bullish on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that that is definitely the future.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that everything starts from there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you look at the short form clipping and what are all that you need to be present on all of those platforms 1,000 per cent.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you just did short form and you didn't have any long form, it's kind of [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost worthless.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen a lot of people that have millions of followers on short form and then they put out an offer and it's crickets that don't make any money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's because they don't have any long-term relationship with those people.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've noticed that as well for the part if someone is just on Instagram, it doesn't convert it all.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of, it's really insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like mind blowing, which is why we're super excited for this episode in particular because you've been crushing on long form and you also just have so much game to give [SPEAKER_01]: out.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think like you got that recognizable fade.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited for this one.

[SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to content strategy as far as coming up with ideas for long form, [SPEAKER_01]: How do you go about that with your team?

[SPEAKER_01]: Cause I've also noticed that, you know, you've seen a couple of the formats that you've done have success and you've repeated them in a different way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So can you talk about how you come up with ideas and how you think about content in the form of like formats and how that can be utilized like, or how someone can think about having a format and being like this does well, let me do it again and repeat it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm still like a student of the game and learning this process, but one of the things that has become extremely apparent from hanging out with a lot of these big YouTubers is that even still today that I needed to be spending way more time on ideation and idea selection more so than the execution I think that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my team is doing an exceptional job in terms of like the execution or side of things and the editing and the pacing and all of those kind of stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: But realistically, like you need to be spending the most amount of your time, the 80, 20 on ideation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and the more people that I see that are crushing it on YouTube that I'm hanging out with, that is apparent in all of their team.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even for this quarter, that's a big emphasis for me and my team is just like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, locking ourselves in a room and coming up with ideas of that where we think you're going to bang where it's like a lot of the time, the way that I was doing it and a lot of creators do it is that just like, they'll come up with five ideas and they'll just run with these and then they run with them and then it's like all of this time and energy and resources to produce that video, but it's like inherently if that idea was way better, it would just do like a hundred X the performance.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the way that we're thinking about it is, yeah, one, what is, what is interesting?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is, what would we click on, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: What would get us involved in the world?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then thinking about, okay, what are the business lessons and takeaways from this interesting idea to be able to execute on this, to kind of make it fascinating.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the way that like there's no short easy answer.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's not like some charity prompt that you can put in that's going to give you [SPEAKER_00]: Then once you you you ideate in terms of buckets.

[SPEAKER_00]: You think about okay, what's the bucket of content that I'm going to produce?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like one like those brand videos that we produce on Rolex andermaids and all of these.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like we call them IRL videos like out in the real world looking at you know these use cases.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a format.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a bucket of content.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then we think about what's all of the different types of videos that we could produce in that bucket.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're testing formats, [SPEAKER_00]: The videos that do the work, the best, are basically creators that take television shows and they first basically put them on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Beast Games is just a game show, like a lot of these videos.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's just what they are.

[SPEAKER_00]: These, these creators have literally just lifted what has worked on television and then they're just bringing that to, to, to, to YouTube.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, going back to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Britain bringing up how you have this, you know, text message thread with a bunch of top YouTubers.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like in the world of business, there's like different levels and almost like doors that you unlock as soon as you reach a certain level or you meet a certain individual in your network grows.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh shit, I have access to individuals that I can ask questions to or network with and I can get connected with somebody else and the game almost becomes a little [SPEAKER_01]: The people that you can go ask questions to, it becomes like you level up and you open up the story like oh shit like I didn't know about this beforehand [SPEAKER_01]: He takes us back to, as you are coming up, maybe one of those doors that you open, somebody that you met and allowed you to go to the next level in business.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that I don't buy into the idea that you need to get to a certain level where those doors start to open.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've always been incredibly curious.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've always networked with people.

[SPEAKER_00]: every city that I go to.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yo, I'm in Athens if you want to connect, slide into the DMs, or I might know certain people that I was never afraid to basically send them a DM and to start a conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's still something I do to this day.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's something that I've always done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't like, it's not something that you need to defer to you get to some certain level and some doors going to open and it's going to like bring you all this opportunity.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't say there's been any really of those opportunities.

[SPEAKER_00]: that have presented themselves to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've always been something that I have created.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I was, I guess maybe, let me rephrase it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's been times where we've had guests on the podcast and we've had conversations and through that conversation, it created like an aha moment for us of like, oh shit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we should operate our business this way or we didn't think about this beforehand and it has completely changed the way we think about the show and our business.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm curious to know if you have [SPEAKER_01]: had any of those encounters early on in your career where you had maybe a specific conversation with an individual and he's like, and it kind of changed the way you thought about how you operated your business.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So let me talk about the networking side of things and then I'll transition into that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing is like, is you're watching this right now and you want to network with people and you want to get these doors open to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing that you need to understand is that net people only want to network with people that are going to provide value to themselves.

[SPEAKER_00]: and most people look at relationships with what is it that I can extract from this person.

[SPEAKER_00]: Instead, what you want to do is whatever the lane that you're driving in, whatever the world the niche is, is to become absolutely world-class at that, that people would want to network with you because you are a person of value.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that's going to make those doors lubricated and they are going to swing open.

[SPEAKER_00]: because people do want to associate with you.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most people look at it through the other lens.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, what is it that I can take?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, who is it that can help me get to the next level, rather than thinking about who can I help?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who can I help get to the next level?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So say for instance, like, you know, some of the doors that I would like definitely, like conversations with Eric, you know, has changed the way that I operate from a content standpoint.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I remember [SPEAKER_00]: He sent me through like a brief of their pre-production of what goes into making their videos.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing was like 27 pages long, and I'm like, oh, okay, like, okay, like there's a different level here, a different level of planning in order to execute videos that are pulling in 30 million views.

[SPEAKER_00]: That goes into it and a lot of these YouTube is make it look like there's not effort But these guys are like they're hard work as man.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're at it.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're it's like this is they're in the major leagues They're professionally going after it and it's like anything in life whenever I turn over or rock whenever you see somebody Getting some outcome that seems desirable and the human brain always comes up with excuses of why they are able to get that outcome [SPEAKER_00]: and everyone of those people have gone through a season that you haven't seen, and when you look under that rock, you can see all of the mountain of work that goes into getting that outcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that that's been the case in any systems.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, the people that I hang out with that are doing a billion dollars in revenue, once you start hanging out with them and seeing like what it is that they've got going on and the stuff, it's just an enormous amount of work or [SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's been the same with organic content like it looks like all fun and games on YouTube and people just putting out videos that suck in 30 million views but then you actually figure out okay like wow they they're literally four weeks of pre-production planning out absolutely every single minute detail and then it's like a monster edit and you go to their offices and there's 16 editors in the back room and they're maniacally focusing [SPEAKER_00]: and they make it look effortless on the front end but there's an enormous amount of work that goes into absolutely everything to get the outcome that it is that they want and that's that's true of everything in life.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think [SPEAKER_03]: I think you're so right and it's something that we've realized too from the people that we've been blessed to like speak with on this show like you see something that seems so easy and then when you chat with them and you left open that rock you're like oh my god there's like so many there's so many details that go into this process before you became like forward facing and you started making this content.

[SPEAKER_03]: Was this a conscious decision and you talked to someone or, you know, were you like, okay, I probably should be on social media and what was that first platform look like that you ended up hopping onto?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I, you can go on on my YouTube channel and you can look at my earlier videos that are just absolutely horrendous.

[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I started like just documenting in the beginning and like documenting sales meetings and like the way that I was kind of running the company and it started from a place of first like I wish that I had a camera crew.

[SPEAKER_00]: when I was cold calling 150 people from my bedroom to get my first clients.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a few videos of it, my wife sitting beside me and me cold calling people, but I wish I had filmed everything and I wish that I could show it to my daughters when they get old so they can understand like what has gone into it and so it started from a place of like let me document the climb like and then it was about [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was already doing $10 million in revenue at the time and I was like, I'll start producing videos on YouTube and it was just documenting what I was doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then as that's evolved over the years, it's just become apparent that [SPEAKER_00]: People don't want to do business with faceless corporations.

[SPEAKER_00]: They want to do business with individuals.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's why Elon Musk has more followers in Tesla.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's Jeff Bezos on Amazon, Zuck on Meta.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, people want to do business with people that they know like and trust.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just going to become more and more and more apparent.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think as the years have gone on, my opinions and my investment into these platforms have become more and more serious because I understand that like that is the main thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the most underpriced asset right now in the world is attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: where in an opportunity where we can basically start a television network for free.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's like these companies, it's like NBC or Fox comes to you and they're like submarine, we're going to put all the infrastructure in.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to put the satellites up the studio.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to pay for absolutely everything and then you just produce content.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to pay you to produce the content and then in addition to that, it's also going to grow your business as well.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, okay, so what's the downside of this?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, there isn't any.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, OK, well, how much do I need to spend to get this all set up?

[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, there's this, there's so much opportunity in terms of attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about like everyone getting connected to the internet, [SPEAKER_00]: It does not matter where you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just got back from Greece, Italy, Dubai, India.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can go to the most remote village in India and there are people glued to their phone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I can go to Beverly Hills and it's the same thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you have more and more people coming online spending more and more time on these platforms.

[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of people that produce content, yet it's increased, but it hasn't gone up no way near as much as the actual demand for this content.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I think that attention is the most underpriced currency and asset right now in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just kind of retweaking and pivoting my business to make sure that I'm buying up as much of that asset as possible.

[SPEAKER_01]: I thought you were gonna go the route of, I could go to the most remote village and they're still recognizing me, internet, that is, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, it doesn't even happen to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was in Bali recently in the bathroom in the guy walked out and he's like, submarine.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I was walking out of the bathroom and he's like, put his hand out to shake me and I was like, I haven't watched my hands yet, bro.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, oh, no, no, it's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, man, it's just like, it's like, I give you a fist, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of attention, I'd love to know about your experience on Shark Tank and how much attention that did bring to your personal brand did being on the show give your brand quite a lift or was it not as much as you may be initially thought.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think what it does, it drives credibility and validates you, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's so easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just need an iPhone.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can start recording content and uploading it to YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is there's lots of questions in people's minds of like why?

[SPEAKER_00]: Why should I listen to you?

[SPEAKER_00]: So if anything, like I think it just validates like that attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, [SPEAKER_00]: I can still say that like YouTube and time on brand right it might be like what you see in Shark Tank is some of these pictures go for two hours then they take those two hours and they cut them down to a seven minute pitch and then from that seven minute pitch each shark might be on screen for 30 to 45 seconds at the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: where it's like, there are YouTube videos that I've put out that have got millions of views that go for an hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: So time on brand is obviously bigger on those.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still more bullish, I would say, on YouTube than I am on traditional television.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at most major networks and everything right now, they're cutting down on all of these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're cutting down on shows.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our people aren't wanting to advertise as much on these, because they know where the attention is flowing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But there was definitely a big brand lift of validating who you are as an individual to be in a position to be on something like sharp-tank.

[SPEAKER_01]: Could you see Shark Tank coming to YouTube?

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that's what's going to happen, man.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's beating Disney, beating Netflix.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you, because you bring up that a lot of the most successful YouTube formats are being pulled from TV and I don't think I've seen Shark Tank on YouTube.

[SPEAKER_01]: It could be a really interesting YouTube series, I think.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, her mozi is taking that was a TV the profit.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, they exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: And he's taking a business owner.

[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, OK, we're going to actually fix everything in the business.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's a brilliant model.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we've seen it work on TV before.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think you should bring Shark Tank.

[SPEAKER_03]: God.

[SPEAKER_03]: Fire me out of YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be working on that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: What are some of the things that you noticed with these business owners that were running a circus and the ones that were actually running a business?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is there a few things you're like Jesus Christ?

[SPEAKER_03]: This is very easy and I see this time of time again.

[SPEAKER_03]: You guys just keep messing it up when they would come on a shark tank or businesses that would get pitched to you because I'm sure you get pitched all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of when what's the difference between people that have a legitimate business versus.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like so.

[SPEAKER_03]: Even if they have profitability, what are the things that then?

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: Great.

[SPEAKER_03]: They're profitable.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm now interested.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: What causes you to want to invest?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: If they're they're already profitable though.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want like someone that it's in profitable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like they're profitable than what?

[SPEAKER_00]: I pay very close attention to the words that come out of the mouth and the story that it is that they're telling to us sharks and also to themselves, you know, I, I'm a big believer on betting on the jockey, not the horse, I know how hard businesses, I've seen businesses come and go, I've seen them fail, I've seen businesses that are an incredible season, everything's working cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see what happens to you when shit starts to fall apart.

[SPEAKER_00]: When the fire gets so hot that you start to melt.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see how you react in those situations, how quickly that you can pivot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you the type of person that comes up with excuses to outside resources to why you haven't been able to achieve all the things that it is that you want?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or are you the kind of person that just rolls up your sleeves and gets it done no matter what?

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the biggest thing that I look for is [SPEAKER_00]: What are all the hurdles that they've already had to overcome to get into this position right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't wanna hear like, you know, we launched a product, everything went well, where super profitable, there hasn't been any bottlenecks and you should invest.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that sounds a little bit suspicious.

[SPEAKER_00]: And first of all, if you haven't gone through any trials and tribulations, what are you going to do when shit does get hard?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you going to do when the market gets flooded with competition?

[SPEAKER_00]: They're all underselling you on price.

[SPEAKER_00]: Then what's going to happen?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really looking at that founder and their ability to be able to react under pressure and solve problems beyond anything else.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm looking at what's the story.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do I believe the term is?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do where could I add value to this investment?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are there things that I could do to help them realize that future quicker and just pull them into that reality?

[SPEAKER_00]: or they're going to need a lot of help and hand holding along the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to make sure that if they've gotten some success, then it hasn't just been luck.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like they haven't just put out some TikTok videos, got some organic virality made a bunch of sales, then got a bit of press.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to know [SPEAKER_00]: can you spend money to get a customer because if you can't then you just have a hobby, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You need to be able to actually spend money to acquire a customer, repeatedly, repeatedly, so that I can then put more money in and we can multiply that money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they're the kind of big things that I'm looking at in a lot of these investments.

[SPEAKER_03]: What are some of the fires that you've had to overcome with your company or before you've been started King Kong?

[SPEAKER_03]: What are some of those things that you had to overcome?

[SPEAKER_03]: And that you can tell our listeners that they can really save them some years and some bullshit.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, how long do we have it with a lot of the first thing I would say is like the the biggest thing that I got my teeth kicked in on in the beginning and why I deliver it with so much passion now is selling things at the market does not want.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first business that I sold where I was selling products for was an online water filter company.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I never forget, I kind of fell down the rabbit hole like digital marketing and I learned SEO and I cut my tea.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got this business page one position one for every single water filter related key where that they possibly was in Australia.

[SPEAKER_00]: I got the the product into 300 different retailers around the country and We still weren't selling a huge amount.

[SPEAKER_00]: We were selling but it wasn't satisfactory to where I wanted to be and It was because I was selling something that the market was not starving for there is a kit, you know Like a big belief in Australia that the tap water is completely healthy and fine to drink So it's like you're pushing this big boulder up the hill of something that people don't want and [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to be tough if you're going to be stupid, I think I was a stupid business to launch.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the times have changed now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's definitely different in America.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like most of your don't drink tap water.

[SPEAKER_00]: You either buy bottled water or you have water filters.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like Australians are like, this is the highest quality tap water in the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: And most people just drink it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so then you find yourself in a convincing argument rather than having a compelling offer.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was when I learned the most important lesson I've ever learned in business, which is a compelling offer is 10 times more powerful than a convincing argument.

[SPEAKER_00]: You do not want to be trying to convince people to buy.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to have an offer that they would be willing to crawl across crushed glass on their knees to get their hands on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the bigger.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the wind in the sales.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the jet engine that propels you forward, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And like if you have a bad business in a good market, you will do well.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a good business in a bad market, you will not do well.

[SPEAKER_00]: So learning that you must remove your emotion.

[SPEAKER_00]: you must look at what the market is starving for and just sell that.

[SPEAKER_00]: You do not need to reinvent the wheel.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like we all have that one friend or that person that we made at a party and they're like, oh, I've come up with like 15 business ideas, but all of them have been taken.

[SPEAKER_00]: People have been doing them.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now I've come up with the most brilliant business idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: left handed basket weaving for dogs.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a brilliant business.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've looked online.

[SPEAKER_00]: No ones doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you're going to have a very hard life if you go that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's very often that you don't want to go to markets that don't have any competition.

[SPEAKER_00]: you want to go to markets where the money is already flowing and you want to have a better offer that delivers the outcome quicker to the prospect ideally at a higher price and you want to have better marketing and you want to shave off a piece of that pie because it's already been validated that it is a good business.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the the biggest overarching thing that if you want to have a business that's doing very well that's the framework that I strongly encourage you to use.

[SPEAKER_01]: What about when it comes to a creator-led business?

[SPEAKER_01]: This has obviously been something that's getting a lot more attention with, you know, festivals and prime.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you worked with Eric on a video where you're like, we're making crox.

[SPEAKER_01]: When I think of crox, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: and correct me from wrong.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think of like the market being like I fucking am starving for this or am I completely wrong because Crox has a super loyal like fan base and if Eric was to come out with Crox or like I fucking need that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you think about from a creator-led business, if a creator is listening to this and they want to launch a business, physical product?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do they think about finding something that maybe makes sense to them is authentic to their brand, but also is something that the market is starving for?

[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a great question, and it's very, very timely.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that wherein like the first...

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, surge of creative lead brands and a lot of these things are going to crash and burn and die and then there's going to be like the second wave, which I'll dive into.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first wave is basically I have the eyeballs.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got the attention way in this attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are the products that most people are buying, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do I just sell them that, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it energy drinks, is it chocolate bars?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is something, or maybe it's coffee?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I can sell, like everyone drinks coffee.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got five million subscribers, let me launch a coffee brand.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, most of these businesses are going to zero.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're gonna die a horrible death.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's because these businesses, these creators are realizing that, [SPEAKER_00]: Running a business is not easy.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like a one-time event.

[SPEAKER_00]: You just create a video on your YouTube channel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I launched this coffee everyone go buy it.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is a grind, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You need to build a team.

[SPEAKER_00]: You need to constantly promote it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It needs to be in every video.

[SPEAKER_00]: And in order to do that, it has to first be something that you are passionate about.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this first wave is more so of like, they're sitting down in a room with these business executives and they're doing all these vene diagrams and looking at audiences and products that are doing well and they're like, I've got it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do chocolate because that's what all the children are buying, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so then they launch those things, but there's not a huge amount of authenticity behind why it is that they're selling those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And people are getting more and more [SPEAKER_00]: Right and I think that like it's already apparent with things like prime where it's like they've had like a bang a launch [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that destroys brand equity, huge.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing that I like to look at from a lens, like I look to look at it through the framework of something called Eca guy, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is it that you love that you're irrationally passionate about?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is a part of your life that you just love, no matter what, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And once you've got that, then it's like, okay, well, what does the world need?

[SPEAKER_00]: Right, what is the market?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the term?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, what can you be paid for and what are you good at?

[SPEAKER_00]: So say for instance, if we take the crocs example, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Iraq loves fucking crocs, like he just wears crocs all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's something that he's a rationally passionate about.

[SPEAKER_00]: So cool, you're already wearing crocs in all your videos.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're wearing it and you love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't get a crocs brand deal because they don't do brand deals.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cool, how much does crocs do in revenue?

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll last you, they did close to six billion dollars in revenue.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alrighty, cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that is something that you love that people are paying for, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Does the world need shoes?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they don't need a way of shoes.

[SPEAKER_00]: People are wearing shoes.

[SPEAKER_00]: People work them from home.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're wearing more of these sandals and like relaxed, like, you know, shoes than ever before.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like, well, what are you good at?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're good at making videos.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're good at telling stories.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you thread this into that story arc?

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that like that's the second way we are going to basically be in a position where these creators we're going to really want to know that this is something that has a lot of tie-in to the creator that we're listening to.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like Joe Rogan's always talking about saunas and hunting wild elk and the UFC.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like it homeboy launches a sauna company.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to know [SPEAKER_00]: If I can love saunas, like that's all he talks about as saunas.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, there is so much authenticity to him doing it.

[SPEAKER_00]: He can be like, hey, I've owned six different homes, and in all of the homes, I've had a custom built saunas.

[SPEAKER_00]: And all of these customs built saunas, they always, like, they had this thing that was really good, but then this thing wasn't so good, and it was always not hot enough, or the seating wasn't good.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I have gone out, and I have consulted with the best saunas experts on planet Earth.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I have made the best sauner in the world, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to question his integrity of why he's doing that, because you know that he loves sauners, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's gone through all of those things.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that that's the thing that people are going to start to question, and it's like with the Andrew Hubertman's and all of these people, [SPEAKER_00]: They're gonna be like, hey, try every single protein supplement that was on the market.

[SPEAKER_00]: They all have fillers.

[SPEAKER_00]: They all have all of this crap.

[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't find the one that I wanted.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I just created it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I created this product.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I take and it's really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that gonna sell?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, of course it's gonna sell.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a story that makes sense and they're passionate and they can keep talking about it and keep promoting it in a way that feels authentic and it doesn't feel like a brand read.

[SPEAKER_03]: so interesting to think about all of the creator-led brands because I've watched, I love watching those videos on YouTube when someone breaks them down like why this specific one failed.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you think that we've seen that with Prime?

[SPEAKER_03]: Why is it going down in sales?

[SPEAKER_03]: I have tried it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't taste very good.

[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't a fan of what it tasted like.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm just curious from a marketing perspective.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you, you know, there we have two of the biggest marketers in the world.

[SPEAKER_03]: Some of the people that have the most eyeballs on them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you think it is that people bought it once and then didn't continue?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that the product's got to be good, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm taste like trash.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it feels like you pour on the ground or melt the hole in the ground.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just like it does not taste good.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that, yeah, they have a phenomenal rise.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like they had a very good quarter, very good story, kind of ties into [SPEAKER_00]: like what you could imagine them launching, the biggest time meeting up with Congo brands doing all of those kind of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then it's like, is it a product that those people would genuinely want to keep drinking themselves?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it a great product?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's, you can get attention, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: The first sale that you can make, you do not want to be in the order business.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to be in the real order business.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to use that attention to introduce people to a superior product that people are like, man, this is insanely good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then it goes out and you get the virality, where [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they were in the order business.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were in the order of like promotion, running these big fights, big events, used like streaming stuff that they were doing to push an order and it worked.

[SPEAKER_00]: They got lots of orders, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But then, if the product isn't good, you're not gonna be in the real order business and that's the business that you gotta be in.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that most people, while attention is the most underpriced commodity, so is trust.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you need to make sure that you deliver on that trust and deliver on that product.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that what we're going to see is people that use their platform and all these free eyeballs that they've got, this attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they go, okay, we can go direct to the end consumer, cut out the middle man, or we don't need to spend money on advertising.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what we're going to do is we're going to take our marketing budget and we're not going to just pocket it.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to put that into the product to make an actual superior product that is legitimately 10 times better than anybody else and then they're going to use their trust and their reach with their audience and then they're going to have a superior product and then that's the flywheel that will just take off but most people are leading out the thing of investing and making a superior product.

[SPEAKER_00]: or putting the amount of money in R&D to actually create something that is going to be innovative, they're missing that piece, so that they get the orders and then they crash and die.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you see that, like, there's so many brands out there, you just like, bro, why are you launching this?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, the Rock Skin Care Company.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's horrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: horrendous, it doesn't make any sense, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And you go look at that video on him, which is arguably the most identifiable male celebrity on planet earth.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like the launch video has like 180,000 views or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's no time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're a masculine, full on alpha man that talks about like crushing weights and stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're launching like under eye patches.

[SPEAKER_03]: Protein powder, what do you have for having you?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he had success.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe maybe I'm wrong with the underarmor shoes.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like he I believe he put out weightlifting shoes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm making sense makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: Good.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I make money.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they're like awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have all these, all these business guys in the ear being like, we're going to roll that a sweet of brands, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that that's where we're at right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're at that stage in the life cycle of creative led brands.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's already, you can already see it, that a lot of them, the smoke is starting to form.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's going to be a lot of people that are very skeptical.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think someone that comes to mind when you say that, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Nick Bear and BPN supplements, but that's like the perfect example.

[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I couldn't find products that didn't have all this extra shit in it, so I literally made it.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, I mean, his content is also just like next level, like the BPN YouTube channel, plus his own personal YouTube channel is just phenomenal, but they literally made like some of the best supplements on the market [SPEAKER_01]: it proves I think you're exact point.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any desire to make a physical product at all or are you kind of just in the digital landscape?

[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a physical books and whatnot.

[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of like, and I've got lots of businesses that I've invested in that sell physical products and whatnot.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, in terms of me and like, again, it's not about what can I sell?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's where my customers and how can I better serve them to help them solve this problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: They don't care whether it's physical or it's digital.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's where are they and where do they want to go and how can I bridge that gap for them as much as possible?

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the lens that I look at.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like in a perfect world what my clients want is that they want to press a button and they want money to shop in the bank account.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the further that I get away from being able to do that, the worst my product or services.

[SPEAKER_01]: this will be kind of fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at us and we have podcasts and it's within, you know, creator, the creator economy, business landscape, personal brand.

[SPEAKER_01]: Where do you, where, if you were to like consult with us via a couple minutes?

[SPEAKER_01]: Where, like, what would you say is like the best business for us to go into and like, how could you see us leveraging the audience that we have with the podcast into some sort of, you know, digital product, maybe not, maybe physical, but what, what, what advice you have for us personally of like where you could see us having success?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I always like to start with the end of the in mind, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So like for you, it's like, what does that dream outcome look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is it that you would love to be doing every day?

[SPEAKER_00]: That you would wake up and be like, I can't believe that I get paid to do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: What would that look like for you guys?

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing that fires us up the most or at least one of them is like sitting down with amazing people like yourself and being able to have conversations and we've been doing it for four years and, you know, we're still reinvesting every dime that we make back into the show and so getting to a place of where we could make a great livable wage like sitting down and having conversations as one sector of our business would be amazing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you what fires me up though.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I drink a caffeinated beverage every day.

[SPEAKER_03]: I've told people this for years.

[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't do it because you're not here in person, but with every guest that's in person, we do this thing called the one-handed crack.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we start off the show where you got a crack open, it can't with one hand.

[SPEAKER_03]: I give a score.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a viral challenge.

[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone across the world sends me these scores.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I score them on my Instagram story.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that every caffeinated beverage in America is just pure shit.

[SPEAKER_03]: They've got way too much sugar or it's like literally just going to give us cancer.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I've been on the hunt trying to think of how much money I'm going to have to invest.

[SPEAKER_03]: We were just in Texas like interviewing with Christian Guzman.

[SPEAKER_03]: They have an energy drink.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny because there's like two energy so hard.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like bro, you're in the fucking energy game.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's really hard for me to like hear you say that because you're in the game.

[SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you're doing this thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that there is a market there for a healthier beverage.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know the way shit is very difficult with shipping and all that stuff I'm curious what your thoughts are on the just like beverage CPG as a whole.

[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think brain could have success with the energy drink?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I know I know I can have success with that, but I'm just curious.

[SPEAKER_00]: The way that I look at it first is both of those things that you just said They're both on the other side of you having enough reach to turn those both of those dreams into a reality [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you had enough reach, then the brand deals would pay you an enormous amount of money to be featured in your podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you'd be out of interview people fly all over the world in a private jet and go interview the best people in the whole world because you have the most valuable thing that everybody wants, which is the eyeballs and ears, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: The same thing goes with the drink, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like if you build it up where it's like, you know, you're pulling multiple millions of listens per episode, you've got the eyeballs and ears, and then you've got the platform to put it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first thing to realize is that everything that you want is on the other side of like that reach that it is that you're going for.

[SPEAKER_00]: So then the question becomes down to how do we get that reach?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, who has that reach right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we'll diary over CEO just took the number one spot for podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've got Rogan on there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who are the platforms, the podcasters and producers that are absolutely murdering it right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that they're doing?

[SPEAKER_00]: Where, how do they get distribution?

[SPEAKER_00]: How do they test, how do they test, you know thumbnails, titles?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are they doing short form?

[SPEAKER_00]: How many clips are they putting out per day?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it on clipping accounts?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it on the main account?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are the hooks look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the pacing reverse engineering where success leads clues?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then going, doing an audit of those channels and going, okay, cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: They've got these two clips channels.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're putting out three clips per day on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're putting out the long form.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen on the long form that they test, you know, I go listen to all of the Stephen Bartlett interviews to find out what it is that they're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know this check that was head of his content just left.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, pay her the $10,000 for the consulting call, then get the blueprint of what are the inputs that are going to get you to the outputs.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then go, okay, what are we, this is exactly what we need to do to trend us in the right direction.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing no way near enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're putting out like two to three clips per week.

[SPEAKER_00]: These guys are doing that per hour.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're doing that per day, whatever it might be.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then that then you start to look at it through.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, [SPEAKER_00]: How do we put out that many clips?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we need to put out that many clips that means like we need to get great guests on on average on each podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get 15 good clips from each podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have a lot of money.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to have to use Opus AI or these other platforms to clip this shit up for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we can get it out and hire some people in other countries to post this all day long and then you start to get the road map of what are the inputs to get to the output.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most people are focused just on the outcome.

[SPEAKER_00]: where it's like being more obsessed on what the inputs are.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you guys have had, you know, you've got a lot of good guests coming on the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the reason that I agreed to do the show.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like thinking about like, if you can just keep doing that and then make sure that you put a disproportionate amount of effort also on distribution once you do have that and clipping the shit out of everything and really pumping it out and doing the best edits and just figuring out what the best people are doing and doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you do do that, you'll get to where it is that you want to get to.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you can't look at the people that are on the top of the hill and just be like, it'd be awesome to be on the top of the hill without doing what it is that they're doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's have all the focus on, let me replicate what it is that they're doing to get to that outcome and then back into that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think that you guys would be able to do all of those things like I wouldn't even worry about like what's the business I can launch how do I monetize it?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's all noise right now like the land grab is the attention and getting the audience and it's like if you can Get enough brand deals right now that can kind of [SPEAKER_00]: keep your float and keep you doing the the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the main thing because you guys are probably two or three episodes away from going, you know, to a different atmosphere.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you do all the clipping and you do all of that kind of stuff right and you're doing our volume and you commit to doing that for three years and you don't worry about how do I monetize this I think that that will take care of itself.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I got one more question for you that was awesome is if you could go back and chat with your 18 year old self before you went on this journey, what advice would you tell yourself now thing that would change the journey, but if you could go and talk to yourself, what would you say?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is a difficult one because I often say I would tell them nothing because I'm happy with where I am and if I did like a flap of the butterfly wing I could end up in a different galaxy to where I am right now but I would just like buy all I would just say that all the people that it is that you look look up to [SPEAKER_00]: They are no different to you, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: And just to have absolute belief in conviction in yourself, that you are the kind of person that can make all of your dreams a reality and all of the people that you're looking at at their chapter 10 or you're looking at people on the summit of the mountain, they all had a climb and look at where they went on that climb.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to take bigger risks and to put there's going to be multiple inflection points throughout your career and just put all the chips in just keep putting all the chips in all the way and constantly reinvest in yourself.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do never ever think that it's going to be some opportunity, some out.

[SPEAKER_00]: some like thing that is outside of your power that is going to give you a big unlock.

[SPEAKER_00]: That is a myth.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have not had a lucky break.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have had lots of intense work in private to be rewarded in public, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people look at the accolades, look at the shark tank, they look at the fastest growing company in Australia, all of these different things, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But they don't look at [SPEAKER_00]: the training room, they just look at the trophies.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that in anything, I just say that like, you got this, just go all in on you, forget everything else, um, and just have 100% conviction that you are that special person that can get it done.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's been one of my favorite episodes of the Five of Five Podcasts.

[SPEAKER_03]: Ladies and gentlemen, episode 176, we're sorry, very soon, if you're still here, please drop us a comment, leave us a like, subscribe to the channel.

[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you guys all next week.

[SPEAKER_03]: Peace.