You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

Welcome to Parenting out Loud, the podcast for people who don't really listen to parenting podcasts.

This is not sort of vomit on your shirt or knits in the kid's hair.

This is kind of the news, the trends, the culture, and what parents are thinking about.

I'm Monique Boley.

I'm Stacy Hicks, and I'm not used to introducing myself.

Second, but Amelia is away this week and we actually have a very special guest with us.

Do you want to introduce yourself?

Yes?

Hello, I'm not Amelia Lester.

I am Luca Levine.

I work here at Mamma Mia.

I'm a dad.

Cool dad.

I'm cosensitive dad.

I mean I've never been called that.

I guess I have now.

I'm kind of like Amelia Lester, but a little bit less smart and with a little bit more vocal fry.

Well, welcome, young sensitive dad energy.

That's what we need.

Thanks.

MONSI.

Hey, just I thought that I could use maybe just the top of the show if I could for a moment to just before we start, Can I just jump in and clear the air, because like obviously, mons you and I have this sort of ongoing tension and like beef between us, do we well?

Do you know?

Do you know what you've done?

Oh?

What did you do?

What do you think you've done?

Mons?

I don't know.

I'm pure.

I don't know.

I don't think I've done anything.

Actually, you're perfect.

What could you have possibly done?

For those who don't know me?

I started at Muma mer as an intern about ten years.

Do what I did?

They just hit me?

Do you tell the people or shall I?

I want to hear what you think you did?

Mons?

Did I push you and Jesse together?

Well?

I would actually say the opposite because when you were the EP of Mum and Me Are Out Loud, which is Muma Me's flagship show, and my now wife Jesse, you just pulled her to the show for the first time.

Jesse and I had been dating for about two weeks and it was still really secret, right, and then you introduced Onto Out Loud, a new segment where Jesse has to go out on dates with random people and bring it back onto the show a.

Bit of love talk mouth.

Jesse.

Last week we set you a challenge.

You did your homework, you went on a date.

Let's see how it panned out.

Okay, So I just finished getting ready for my day tonight.

Wish me luck.

Putting myself on the line for this podcast.

Guys.

So this was the blind date?

Ye?

And so how was it?

Okay?

It was a really nice guy.

He was genuinely nice.

He was good looking.

Up, that was all fine.

He said that the thing he values the most when it comes to dating is attractiveness in Girlsallo.

Yeah, so he said, what you did?

Just point out that he was good looking, and yeah, I'd mentioned it.

It's quite baff it's hard out there.

But oh it's hard out there.

Okay, so you're back on the horse.

You're going back out there for some more.

Oh, I'm back on the horse.

Do you know what it's like going and picking your girlfriend of two weeks up from a date that she has to go on for content?

You underestimate me, luke Levian.

You don't think I knew what was going on with you and Jesse.

I was not born yesterday.

Of course I knew what was going on.

I sent Jesse on other dates so you would get frantically jealous and lock her down.

Are you not seeing the strategy here?

Well?

It worked, So that's why I say I Remember what I did is that I forced you to together.

That's how it happened, my friend.

That's just the magic of showbiz.

We've cleared the air.

The tension of ten years between us Monds is gone now that we've at least addressed it, and we can begin the show.

Hey, coming up today, what are we talking about?

We're talking about when it got so weird to.

Be nude and the under consumption core trend that lies in the face of all the Black Friday ads you're probably seeing right.

Now, Stacy, what have you seen this week?

What's going off on the website?

So, in case you miss said, there has been a lot of headlines around this week about the fact that Sand got canceled.

So are you seeing.

This Sand has definitely been canceled.

Yeah, Kinetic Sand has been canceled.

I have never seen my class group chat light up like anything before fifty two messages.

It exploded.

And the person that was in that the most was another woman called Monique, and she was going off and I was like, oh God, God, does everyone think that this is me?

I'm the other Monique anyway, because I'm the ghost of the school group chat.

So I've seen headlines about this story, but only bits and pieces.

Someone explains me, A.

Yeah, I'll feel you in.

So there were several early learning centers, mostly in Act and one in Queensland that were all shut because traces of asbestos were found in decorative sand.

So those tubs of colored sand they're use in like sensory playbin and those types of things.

Is this that stuff that's like you pick it up and it doesn't behave like sand, it's sort of like clumps and sticks.

Kinetic scent that's a whole other species.

Wait sand, I thought it was kinetic sand.

It's a different scent.

It's all horrendous.

But the A Triple C has officially issued a recall on a few of them, and parents were very freaked out.

Naturally, because you hear the words asbestos, you're terrified.

Obviously we don't want our kids anywhere near that.

But WORKSAE ACT has said that the exposure risk is very low, so the most dangerous form wasn't found and its traces have been found, so they're doing it out of an abundance of caution.

What do you think when you hear that?

Does that worry you?

Look?

My first reaction was fear right and worry as you say stays.

The word asbestos is a scary one.

The more I dug into this after seeing the headlines.

It turns out the tremolite and chrysotil asbestos found in the sand or informs unlock likely to create breathable fibers, and so the sand is considered very low risk according to doctor Ian Musgrave, who is a molecular pharmacologist at the University of Adelaide.

And so as soon as I read that, I thought, right, it sounds like pending for the testing that the kids are probably okay.

But boy, maybe this could be an opportunity for us as parents to declutter everything sand ish or sand adjacent that we have accumulated in our houses.

Absolutely, like we should be turning lemons into lemonade here and going sand is the worst.

We don't want it anywhere in our house.

What else can we just put in this same bucket and go, No, it's been recalled, it's banned.

Like I personally want to get rid of stickers.

I'm going to.

Say, stickers have asbestos tracers.

They're out, they gone.

I don't want them on my door frames anymore.

Yes, this is the Asbestos Act of twenty twenty five.

Yes, all the parents are in it together, and it's like, what you getting rid of?

Okay, here's my list glitter gel.

Sorry, Charlie, asbestos risk.

It might have asbestos in it.

Yeah, maybe it might.

Who you know.

Here's my other one.

Drink bottles.

I'm so bored of filling up drink bottles, losing drink bottles, buy new drink bottles.

Having eighteen drink bottles on my counter.

Hey, guess what, guys, they might be a risk too.

What are you going to send ration like a glad bag?

What are you going to get some water cups?

Just use a cup like we did when we were kids, drink out of the bubbler at school, be dehydrated like your parents are.

I did see a TikTok of a kid who kept losing their water bottle, and so is punishment their mum sent them to school with water in a ziploc bag.

I like it.

I like it.

Yeah, send them into microplastics instead.

Why not?

There's always going to be a risk.

Do you both feel like sort of soothed by the idea that there is someone out there who's just taking kids products and testing them for bad chemicals.

I quite liked that.

I was like, who's doing this sound testing?

What else are they testing?

Well, I feel less soothed by the fact that they got into Australia and there were kids playing with them in the first place.

Yeah, that part's not ideal.

Friends.

It is November, which means one thing.

Panic term exhaustion.

Looking at Christmas tree Facebook groups.

If your mom's bowldy, because that's all she does with.

A time Christmas Tree.

Yeah, as we famously spoke about last.

Week, anyone who listened last week, no, everyone, That means Spotify rapped is coming.

Oh Jesus, very very shortly.

And I want to offer you both a service.

Right as parents, we know that Spotify rapped looks a little different, and so I want to give you both the opportunity to confess, to get ahead of the game before Spotify rapped, and confess what is going to be at the top of your Spotify raps to avoid the embarrassment when it comes out in a few weeks.

Mon's what's at the top of your Spotify rapp list?

Thank you for holding the space for me to confess, Luca, I appreciate it.

Spotify, if you're listening.

I would like to request I'm a premium member, that's right, I pay my monthly subscription fee gem and I would like to request a parent mode that automatically sensors your results, like an amnesty.

Okay, please, just a little button that you click on and it's like, cool, you're a parent.

We're not going to tell you actually the reality of what you listen to.

But here's what I think.

Mine's going to be two words chicken.

Non chicken, non chicken.

No no, no, no no no.

So it's brain right effectively, so that one and then la la la l chit chit cha chicken.

So you love a chicken and it's distis you know that one?

That one when we don't even need to hear the real version, because I feel like I've got it now.

I would have clocked ninety thousand hours on both Chicken Bornana and Lala Lava Chicken.

And I feel also as a Spotify premium member that Spotify should recognize this and just reach out and say, are you okay?

Do you need a mental health plan?

Stacey, confess what's yours?

I want that amnesty for myself so that it doesn't recognize and put like Tina Arena Chains in my top songs because.

That's a banger.

Have you listened to that recently?

Prerect It?

I just want to.

Take that out and look cool, you know, like have all the cool bands, but mine would definitely be saying you listened to ten thousand hours of K pop demon Hunters, you listen to twenty thousand hours of lullabies for babies, and then it would malfunction when it got to like the sleep stories, because we do that and I listen to those more than anyone has ever listened to anything.

He's exploding head.

He exploding head.

Well, if you've both got ahead of the game.

You're in little kid mode though, right Luca, Like, what are we dealing with?

Is it wiggles?

Is it octaughts?

Is it worse?

What is it?

Luna, my two and a half year old is going through a phase where she really likes the bagpipes and so at the now, my number one playlist on Spotify is called Funeral Bagpipes.

How did you indoctrinate a toddler into bagpipes in the pipe?

At what point?

At what point did your child see bagpipes?

It must have come on, you must have put it on at some point.

She's a genius, but she's not that smart.

She didn't suddenly ask to listen to them.

I think what it was is, I think there's an episode of The Wiggles where Anthony, who my daughter calls Upsey for reasons I don't really understand, plays the bagpipes, cute, hyper focus on bagpipe Q.

We're in the car bagpipes, bagpipes, And then, for reasons unbeknownst to me, the specific bagpipe songs that she likes the most are in a playlist called Funeral Bagpipes.

Okay, I've just googled it.

You're right.

In fact, there's a Wigle song about bagpipes.

What well, your Spotify rap's going to look very cheery, Luca lovely?

Are you going to share it?

Do you think Luca like you're a cool guy?

I will say I certainly have a newfound appreciation for bagpipes, having listened to them a fair amount.

Sometimes she just wants to see photos of bagpipes.

If either of you buy a mini bagpipe for Luna, you're both iced out permanently.

I famously learned the saxophone for two years.

Maybe I'll buy lunar a saxophone to try and get her onto another annoying instrument.

No, I think it might have some asbestos in it.

There's heaps of bagpipe sponsors that listen to this show and they want to get into her for some sponsored content, because bagpipes does need a rebrand.

Bagpipes is like very loud, very like.

It's a bit daggy.

It's a bit like offensive to some people.

And I think what they need, pr wise, is a cute toddler.

I hear there's a high astbestos risk, so you better keep clear.

Can't be too safe.

All the kids are hard.

It's so fucking weird.

I don't know bagpipes, So thank you for bringing us that cool dad the Spotify rap.

What else is in your cool dad backpack?

Look, there's a bit of a vibe shift happening on my social feeds right now, and it is all around this trend of under consumption.

Have either of you heard this word before?

Yeah, I don't know what is going on with your algorithm because mine is diabolical.

I am having the opposite.

I'm having click frenzy, Black Friday consume consume.

I have never heard of under consumption.

Okay, So if you haven't seen it, it is basically the esthetic opposite of you guys know those videos where in influences, it's like very popular in Asia and China in particular, hold up something for like three seconds and then like throw it away, and then hold something else up for three seconds and then throw it off like a whole, like the most unbelievably taking consumerism to the max version of a whole.

Call it the esthetic opposite of like an unboxing video.

Right, So, the under consumption trend is people rejecting the sort of more is more culture that was laid pretty bare for us in that very popular Netflix documentary last year which was called By Now.

There's a link in the episode description for anyone who missed it, but the vibe was, you know, consumerism is killing the planet.

We're buying far too much stuff companies effectively, all they want us to do is buy more and more, and we've kind of got our fingers in our ears for how much it's fucking up the planet.

I'm starting to get a lot of that in my algorithm to these videos where people are saying, let me deinfluence you, and they're kind of showing their very minimalist wardrobes, or they're very minimalist beauty routine and not in like a Kim Kardashian concrete house type of weight, like in a very homely way of just being like, you only need a couple of things, we don't need all this stuff.

So that's exactly its stays.

The under consumption trend, for example, is you know, mending the rip in your jeans instead of buying new ones.

It's owning exactly one good spatula instead of four shit ones like I have.

And it's using a bar of soap until it's that tiny, tiny little sliver and then you keep using it and then it just turns into nothing, and so you use one hundred percent of the soap.

I saw a video of one woman and she was using her grandmother's comb, so it was a hair comb.

They don't pass down from the grandmother to the mum to her.

I think I've got three hair brushes and I barely ever brush my hair.

I love it, and that's exactly it.

But to me it makes sense, right.

The average Australian buys fifty six new items of clothing a year, according to the Australian Fashion Council, and the average household throws out about two and a half thousand dollars worth of edible food each year, according to Food Bank Australia.

So I'm looking at this under consumption trend and I'm all in right, I'm absolutely like on the bus, get me on.

I would like to be the king of under consumption.

I want to have a no waste household.

But the reality is that ninety five percent of the food I buy for my child ends up as very expensive garbage.

And so is this trend just even in the realms of possibility fast as parents?

It's a good question.

I think the first thing we have to recognize in this conversation is that I think there's a class element to under consumption, Like being able to buy just one good spachelor and have it for the rest of your life might actually be out of reach for some families.

Like being able to buy less but buy top quality things is a luxury that not everybody has.

But I do think like that aside, this does soothe me and I do feel like I need this reset right now because my feed is so deranged at the moment, and my willpower is really low because it's the end of the year and I'm tired, and there's Christmas coming up, and I just feel like every time I open my phone, every time I open my email inbox, it's click Frenzy, Black Friday by now you know, crazy sales.

And I think I do not need another Dyson.

But when you're weak and you're vulnerable, you do need these reminders to be deinfluenced.

But I like this trend.

I think it reminds me of when this is probably before your time, Luca, because you're young, But the Internet used to be a really great place.

I knows it's hard to believe, but there was a time before we knew the word content or like ring light, and it was honestly just people pottering around or blogging about their cat or like downloading fonts.

It wasn't this constant like selling to people all the time.

And I like this trend.

Just feels like it's giving like early Internet energy, and I really like it.

Like I have to admit with it though when I think about under consumption, it makes me bristle a little bit, and I think it's probably from the guilt factor that, like, I'm not being very mindful with my purchases a lot of the time, and it feels like I put it in the same bucket as I would people who are like meal prepping or people who have screen free households, Like I go, that's very nice, and I would love to be achieving that, like I would love to be eating enough protein, but it feels out of reach for me.

It just doesn't feel like something I can do.

And I think kids add that other layer, like they definitely get in the way of the under consumption because it feels like things are entertainment and you want to be giving them entertainment.

And waste feels just so unavoidable.

Yes, yeah, but really like we shouldn't be consuming more with kids because really, when they're quite little, I mean, they're happy with a box until they're about three years old.

I know.

That was like my daughter's favorite toys were the most random things.

We used to say she had an emotional support spachelor because she'd bring that with us to the park over any toys she had.

SHEEPA is really playing a huge.

Yeah, but like they don't need as much as we think they do.

I had a look and it was saying I think the average number.

It was saying that a kid needs of toys is ten to twenty of all the things combined ten to twenty.

Ideally it's ten open ended toys, so like things that they can play with, and what's imaginaty.

What's an open ended toy as opposed to a closed one.

It's like all those things like little dinosaurs that they can put into cups, but they could also be using them over here in the kitchen, or they could also take them in the bath.

Like, it's things that they can be doing lots of different things.

Or a spatula freaquy, a spatula you could be taking that anywhere?

Do you guys want to hear the law that I've enforced in my household under consumption King?

Yeah, yeah, you're sounding less like a cool dat and more like it or theorist I like it?

Yeah, yes, yes, the autocrat of underconsumpty.

We have a one in, one out rule.

So if my wife Jesse brings something into the house, we've got to throw something out.

If Luna gets given something, we've got to throw something out.

Now, this isn't so much of a household rule as it is a me rule.

So normally how the rule is implemented is something will come into the house, and I'll go and secretly throw something else out and no one will really notice.

But that's kind of the point, isn't it that no one notices when you end up throwing out a lot of your shit.

I remember when I parents died like this, when I thought I had control over the situation.

At some point, look at you are going to lose control of what comes into your house.

Okay, I'm sorry to break it to you.

It's better that I tell you than you just find out on your own.

Okay, here's the thing about under consumption that I think we're missing.

It requires time and it requires energy.

These are two things that are in very sure supply for parents.

So if you want to mend your genes, I love that for you.

That's beautiful and you should do it.

But when are you doing it, like when a you're doing it around working full time and parenting children.

Du requires time.

But here's the other interesting thing I think, and I don't want to make excuses for it.

I think it's a really good thing to stop and pause and say I don't need any more stuff.

But it's also brain science.

Let me tell you.

I'm putting my Professor hat On.

There's two parts of the brain.

There's a caveman brain, which is like the amigdala and the limpic system.

This part of the brain reacts fast.

It doesn't think, it just does.

This is the part of the brain that companies love to sell to.

It's why when you go onto an app and you can buy something straight away with one click, your caveman brain loves that okay, because it is frictionless, it is easy, It solves a problem immediately.

It's like brain, see brain do okay.

Brain see spatula, must have spatula.

Then there's the smart brain.

This is the prefrontal cortex.

This is the part that plans and reasons and thinks more about stuff.

Companies hate the prefrontal cortex.

It's the way that, like you go onto an app and you see something you want to buy and you have to go through two steps, you're more likely to back away from it right because your brain, your logical brain clicks in and goes, oh, actually I probably don't need it.

So I think that consumption, like under consumption, requires the prefrontal cortex to kick in and go hang on stop.

But all the time we are bombarded by e commerce and by these companies whose job is literally to sell to your caveman brain, whose job is literally to work out the psychology like there are five steps ahead of us.

So being able to stop and say I don't need it like that's it takes time and energy.

That's all I'm saying.

You know what onn's I think you bang on.

And the reason that our defenses as parents are so low that our prefrontal cortex is so active and just subservient to you out companies who are very good at convincing us that we need things.

I'm of course not talking about the companies that sponsor our podcast, because you absolutely do need those things, is because we're so fucking sleep deprived.

Ye.

And when we're sleep deprived, the prefrontal cortex is more or less in survival mode and the defenses are lower.

And so when I'm on Amazon and I just sort of get half a sniff of a product that they're telling me could make my life slightly easier, the logic part of my brain having slept for four hours last night is out the door, and the part of my brain that goes, ooh need life make easy?

Yes great, is like let's absolutely go.

Yeah, because it's a dopamine here, right, Like, that's what we're after and the easiest way to make our kid happier is to purchase them something new.

So that's what we do as like a quick win.

So how do we stop this now?

As the under consumption King of twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six, what is your advice for us around like Friday?

Are we just stopping?

I'd actually prefer the type.

What does Kim Jongland call himself?

Is he the Supreme Leader?

I would like to be called the.

Supreme one episode and we're already having to call him Supreme Leader.

How's the man spreading already?

Like we're like twenty minutes in?

Okay, the Supreme the one time we let a man on the podcast and he's like, I'm the Supreme Leader.

I was looking at myself back in the camera that I my leg was spread and now taking up all the room.

Put them straight because I was.

Actually thinking I quit this podcast.

Luca came in, started man spreading on the couch and made us all call.

It yeah, Supreme Leader started telling us not to buy stuff.

I think the moral of the story is that we as parents, have an excuse to go easier on ourselves when we're served with this under consumption core that's no doubt either in your feeds or will be over the coming months, because you are sleep deprived and you are trying to keep another human alive and trying to keep yourself alive at the same time, and so our defenses are biologically lower, and so I think go easy on yourself because of that.

I'm a big fan of the one in one outurall.

I love it.

I bring in my stuff and then eaty stuff goes in the bin.

What two things are you getting rid of?

For the twins, I need to report a disappearance, and it's something we didn't even know had disappeared until this article came out this week, and now I can't stop thinking about the fact that it's gone.

And the thing that's vanished is casual nudity.

Have you seen this story from The Atlantic this week?

It's called the End of Naked Locker Rooms, and the author spoke about the fact that the places we usually encounter like casual nudity in our life, so like in a swimming center change room or in public pool at a gym in the office in Yeah, none of that going on here, but it's all gradually disappeared.

And he talked about the fact there was this report a couple of years ago from Athletic Business where they talked about how when they are doing new constructions of sports facilities now they don't build them with those communal showers anymore.

They all have dividers.

So without even realizing it, we've removed our kids exposure in the time when we're saying be very body positive, every type of body is normal and natural, but we don't actually let them ever see that outside of our household or once they get to a screen.

Do we need to be bringing back casual nudity?

This is fascinating because you know, on face level, when you say that, do we need to bring back casual nudity so kids can see it?

I'm like, what is wrong with you?

No, I don't want my kids to see wobbly ball sacks like in a public pool area.

No.

But I researched it, I did my homework, and I think there's some really interesting stuff around this, and I think we just need to pause and take a moment for the reason why this has happened.

Okay, and What I think happened is that there's a few things that have changed in a Western context around nudity, and the main one is like everyone's carrying a foam with a camera on it now, and that means true things in a public change room, the chain room is now a place where people worry about being filmed, and because of that, businesses need to lower the risk of something going wrong.

So that's why they're building all these privacy cubes.

Like no one wants a lawsuit on their hands, no one wants public scandal on their hands of like people taking photos in change rooms.

So this is a very American thing.

America treats public nudity like a risk and they think like nudity equals a lawsuit, nudity equals danger.

And Australia we kind of follow what America does, so it feelters down there.

But if you stop and look at what Europe doing, it's really different.

We went to the beach in Spain a couple of years ago and mature was on the floor.

I had never seen so many whibbly wobbly Germans, just like in my life.

They just aren't out there like everyone's nude.

Everyone's massive bums, there's big bushes, it's just all out there.

And the same in Turkey there's Turkish baths.

In Japan there's Japanese on Sense.

So there is this different culture around public nudity that's really different to the Western countries and America, where there's nothing sexual about it, there's nothing shameful about it, and there's nothing dangerous about it about a nude body.

They just are right.

It just is a body who cares.

Mon's you mentioned before about Japanese on sense.

That's a big opportunity really to just see bodies in a neutralized space.

And I spoke to a travel writer this week who's taking her teenage children.

Her three children, two are Japanese on send, where it's full nud it's divided out by sex.

To expose them to that for that very reason, because their initial reaction, she said, was to go, oh, well, we couldn't do that and we can't be there, And she was like, no, it's important that you see that in different cultures, that is very normal and we probably should be taking a leaf out of their book.

Here's much interesting.

So some researchers looked at this, They took all the different countries and they went right, let's map which countries have body image problems and guess what they found.

Places with these communal casual nudity, like Germany, Turkey, Japanese, they raise kids who feel better about their bodies.

Like, body dissatisfaction is much lower.

And in places where the body is treated like this private shameful object, cover up and put away and don't let anyone see it, like the US, like the UK, like here in Australia, body dissatisfaction is much much higher.

And the simple truth is in their research, when kids see bodies, more bodies, different bodies, bodies that are just bodies and they're not dangerous and they're not sexualized.

They're just not hidden away or seen as shameful or private.

They have better relationships with their body.

Well that makes sense to me because thinking about what the cultures like here in Australia and the US and the UK's usay Mon's if there is this disappearance of public nudity and we're not seeing as many you know, big fat germans out in about.

The term is wibbly wobbly yeah.

Or you know the person at swimming lessons getting changed next to us in the change room and sort of seeing what their body looks like.

Really, the two places that our kids see in akered bodies are their parents and porn.

Yeah, and that's so interesting what you say, because it's even now with AI coming into that as well.

The bodies that they're seeing in porn are even more unrealistic than what they're going to encounter in life.

And their parents are sample size of two, right, Yeah, And most parents, I like parents, most of them have normal bodies.

I'm doing quote marks, normal bodies, i'd say, But porn, for the most part, obviously bodies are I would say, on balance, probably less normal again in quote marks, more idealized, more sculpted.

It's probably not what the average person looks like.

And so I completely understand and agree that it's problematic the disappearance of casual.

Nudity because I think we've all probably got a memory from being a child and you're in a change room somewhere and you see a body of someone who's not your parents, they and they look different, and in your mind you think, oh, that's something new I haven't seen.

But that's great.

It's like exposure therapy.

Literally, you've got to be able.

To see different bodies and just see them as neutral, because when we're hiding them, that's when it becomes sexually charged, because then the only place they're seeing them is porn.

That's not what we want them to see as a representation of what bodies look like at all.

Yeah, Like, do you know where body dysmorphia stems from.

It stems from shame and compare.

These are the central emotions that cause it, like that fear of judgment that I'm different and I'm weird.

So yeah, there is the case for more public nudity.

So with all of this known, is it enough stacy, Is it enough to just take them to the beach at summer and just let them be around lots of different bodies?

Is there something about the nude factor that's critical here?

I think that definitely helps.

Like I think the more that we're seeing people in that way, that's great.

But yeah, maybe it is the next level up from that, I don't know.

Stepping back, something that I've observed with this piece in the Atlantic Station and having a think about it a little bit, is that we've sort of completely inverted almost what we consider private in the last maybe five to ten years, because as you say, casual nudity is disappearing.

We're terrified of being seen naked in a locker room for three seconds, and you know, we get dressed in a towel the beach, like you don't get your bits out necessarily, but well happily post a thousand word caption on Instagram about our deepest trauma, or about our reading disorder, or about our anxiety, or about very very private parts of our lives for strangers on the internet to read.

And so we've sort of become physical prudes but emotional nudists in a way.

And I'm not sure that either of those things are healthy.

I do love that term emotionally nude is really that's great.

I love that, But I don't agree that that's a bad thing.

How's talking about feelings a bad thing unless it goes?

Are you talking about sort of like the therapeustization whatever the word is of the language, How people say they're triggered, how people say it's trauma over just like small things.

It probably aren't diagnostically those six.

That is exactly it.

Mond So it now seems normal to have deep trauma about something, or it seems normal to have you know, diagnosed anxiety, and for many people that's absolutely the case.

But it's almost like, exactly as you say, Mons, I have a feeling I've read about everyone getting these diagnoses, so I must, or my kid must, or whatever it might be, have a diagnosis.

I love that term, emotional newdess.

That is exactly what we're doing.

Like, I don't know why we've become so closed off physically when it was always a very shamefree space traditionally in history.

But you're right, it's almost like we've flipped that now into you know, putting it all out there, but only when it comes to the mind.

You know, the only thing for it is to lead by example.

I am not going to a neody beach.

I can't do it.

Do as I say, not as I do.

Okay, it's time for recommendations, where we bring you things we've seen, loved, read, sometimes bought.

And I know Luca has worked really hard to deinfluence you all from buying shit this week, but the Internet works harder.

Luca.

I'm sorry to say so today I'm going to bring to recommend you both.

Don't hate on me for this, but it's like a Black Friday shopping list it's probably the only Black Friday shopping list that you need.

It's this Instagram account called two Broke Chicks.

Y.

There's two women, these two Australian women, and their hyper focus is collating every single sale.

They have a spreadsheet with everything on it and it's categorized into themes like close, beauty, homeworss, like electronics.

This is apparently it's a famous thing they do every year.

I'm so late to the party.

I've only just found it.

I was like, holy shit, like, thank you for doing God's work here for people that love a bargain.

So yeah, Two Broke Chicks on Instagram.

It's like an exl spreadsheet.

I think it is.

It's amazing.

I saw it as well.

It's great and you're right, like if you're spending the money, you might as well be getting it for cheaper, Like be mindful, but get it at a bargain price.

Mom's example of something you're going to be buying.

Slash have bought from the spreadsheet.

I saw your Yoto player on their stacy, so I love them.

I'm trying really hard, Luca.

In fact, my mancher this week is you do not need another dice, and you do not need another dcon.

The vacuum or the hair dryer the vacuum.

Maybe get the hair dryer in some variety and.

It's multiple vacuums.

Do you still have one of those things that you sort of lug behind you and the banks into the wall and then pulls the cord out and then does it have that fun button that you press that sucks the cord in?

Like, yes, yes it does.

That's a good.

Yeah.

What if you got for us this week?

Luca?

Okay, so I said before you know, under consumption, we should all be consuming less, as you said Mon's it is Black Friday coming up soon.

Black Friday for anyone that doesn't know, it is like an end of November annual.

Lots of deals, a lot of companies.

We all know what it is, Luca.

Great, we're all friends.

We're fighting for our lives here.

Yes, we know, we're in spreadsheets.

I have an app that is called shop So my record is if you are going to be buying things in the Black Friday sales or Christmas soon, do it via the shop back app.

Because when you shop via the shop back app.

So I was just vibing out to brist Ring Tone there.

If you are going to buy via the shot back app, it gives you back a percent of your purchase in cash, and the percent changes depending on what retailer you buy from.

It's a free app.

It's a free app.

It sounds like a scam.

I promise there's no Nigerian prints involved.

If you go and click through to purchase on say Amazon, through the shop back app, once you've purchased, you will get fifteen percent back in your bank account.

It's as simple as that.

But what what's yeah?

Are they selling you?

You're like, what's what's the catch?

Okay?

So brands, many of whom are our friends, brands always have a little bit of their margin set aside to get people to buy their product.

Right, So some people listening, I'm sure, will do the thing where they click through to buy from the Quantas shopping store, so you get qunus points every time you buy.

A lot of publishers like Mamma Mea will partner with brands on affiliate links, so if a publisher links to a product that someone ends up buying, the publisher gets a little kickback.

What shopback is is effectively the brand taking that little bit of their margin that they have set aside for marketing and giving it straight back to the consumer rather than the middleman like quanas or a publisher or someone else.

So if I go and open my shop back app right now, I've got like one hundred and fifty bucks in there from purchases.

I've not gone and purchased anything out of my way.

If I go back arms of Eve, I bought Jesse some jewelry Amazon, I had to buy a new keyboard for my laptop at home, and I've just sort of a crude little five bucks here, seven bucks here.

You're not going to get rich immediately, but it's a nice little kickback shot back hashtag not sponsored that will make you feel good by getting a couple of bucks back in your bank account every time you have to buy something.

Okay, I need this.

When you see the jewelry, did you make her chuck out a piece of jewelry?

I think I went and chucked out something for her that she didn't realize, not jewelry, but probably a spatula or something, an asbestos filled spatula.

Okay, Well, my reco this week is something that you don't have to buy.

I tried very hard.

To do something that you didn't have to buy this week.

This is a life hack, and it's either going to be something that you go, yes, I've been doing this my entire adult life, or you go no, I've never heard of this before.

Mon's when you do.

Your washing and you get your shirt out of the washing machine, how do you hang it on the line or the clothes horse.

From the bottom two pegs stainless steel pegs.

Okay, you're pegging.

Okay, this is where you're going wrong?

Wrong?

Did realize it was that kind of podcast?

No more pegging, don't peg it.

Shame my pegging.

No, you need to just have clothes horse hangers.

Have some coat hangers on your clothesline or your clothes horse all the time.

Shake out your shirts and hang them on there.

Shake out your dresses, hang them on there, because then you don't have to faff about with the pegs afterwards.

When they're dry, you just push all the hangers together, walk straight to your wardrobe and put them in there.

There's no folding middleman, and then you don't have to iron most things.

I iron almost nothing.

Yes, I have a phobia revice same.

I hate ironing.

I never want to do it.

And so that's why I do the shake and hang technique, and.

My mind was grown.

I brought this up in a meeting and half the people in there had never thought of it before.

So I'm sharing my wisdom.

I know people that do this.

I can't believe you're one of them.

You can't believe I'm the same person, Stacy.

I feel like tying as much as I do.

I fucking love ironing.

I love it, but I love crispness of the shirt after it's been ironed.

Like you're not getting a level of Christmas when you hang on a hanger, right.

You're cooked?

Stop ironing?

What are you doing?

Just use jacking.

You will love me.

You'll have so much time back.

You'll have at least ten minutes extra day to shop Black Friday.

Don't they hangers blow off the line?

No, I just use the clothes horse inside.

I'm too lazy to go outside.

It's going to change your life.

Just promise me you'll try it once.

You'll love it.

Mon's did you say you have stainless steel pigs?

Oh?

Yeah, yeah, Now that is under consumption.

I bet they last for one hundred years over there.

It lasts so long.

Yes, sick.

I do have to issue a public apology.

Last week's episode, I talked about wanking a Christmas tree, and I mentioned a Balsam Hills tree.

I am getting trolled by listeners who are sending me Bosom Hill trees and being like, I guess it's not in your house.

Like the level of trolling.

I love it.

Thank you.

I'm glad we're all in on this joke together.

But I just want to say, I'm really sorry if anyone is now being smashed in their algorithm by this company, like their equalerce person is elite, because I only thought about it once and then suddenly it was like all over my phone.

You know when that happens.

So I'm really sorry for anyone that that's happened to you this week.

Please keep trolling me on my Instagram.

I love it.

Do you want to get ahead of yourself while you're at it and issue a public apology to our German listeners?

No, Luca, I will not apologize to the roly poly Germans.

I think they are doing a public service by getting their bits out to them.

I say, donkey, cham is that German?

Yeah?

It is okay, thank you.

Hey, that's all we have time for a big thank you to our supreme leader Luca for parachuting in today.

Amelia with back next week.

Stacy, you keep us honest.

Thank you, and to everyone listening, good luck with your Spotify wrapped and all the best with the Asbestos Eradication Act of twenty twenty five in your house.

Thank you, Thank you for staying with us this episode.

Hey listen, If you know a parent you reckon would like this show, you should send it to them.

That way you can debrief with them too, and it's like something you have in common.

You can be like, hey, did you listen this week?

Like how about wedn Stacy hang her clothes on the line with the hanger.

You know, it's just bloody bonding, isn't it?

Correct content?

It's good content.

That's possibly my best content ever.

Actually, get that up here.

I'm changing lives.

Guys.

A big thanks to our team Junior content producer Tessa Koovic, our senior producer Leoporgus and Executive producer Sashritanic and the group ep is Ruth de Vine.

Have a great week.

We'll be back in this feed next Saturday morning.

Bye bye, didn't want to deal by say bye?

Fuck off.

Bye bye everybody, bye, goodbye, thanks so much for.

Goodbye, good day.

She really really stumbled at the final hurdle

Of Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.