[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes a world looks like you ain't ever seen it before It's just behind never ending windows All you need is a door Searching for something to put a smile back on your face Just remembering unusual times I can come from an unusual place [SPEAKER_02]: I need a partner for the ride Cause everybody needs a ride Such a bird is to the side Just ask See the word now be there Just ask [SPEAKER_02]: I know the greatest things in the life I'll come in a pair They say hindsight's 20, 20 That ain't far enough behind me So we can walk this sweetest honey I think hindsight's 19, 19 There's a need to pretend I got a hand I can land Who's like you really need a friend Just ask [SPEAKER_01]: Shit 90's show start me!

[SPEAKER_00]: Shit 90's show start me was not filmed before live studio audience.

[SPEAKER_05]: Are you ready to slay another day?

[SPEAKER_05]: So are we?

[SPEAKER_05]: Welcome back to Shit 90 Shows Topping.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just our link here with my co-hosts.

[SPEAKER_05]: Sarah, I'm free, Sarah, how are you?

[SPEAKER_06]: Jess, I'm doing pretty well.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just have one question for you.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's, how do you feel?

[SPEAKER_06]: Last time we spoke, you sang a very insensitive song.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can't tell you any time anyone in my family has had to attend a family funeral wake and whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is like we can't help ourselves.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is the way we come.

[SPEAKER_05]: So the thing is I wish I was right.

[SPEAKER_05]: I wish we could stand here and talk about a funeral this episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, we are not even there yet because we have to pick back up like as [SPEAKER_05]: poor joys.

[SPEAKER_05]: And like, I'm, you know, I'm going to do my best again, humor as a coping mechanism is usually my go to.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is in a very funny episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, it was a really intense episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, [SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, yeah, I don't know, and luckily, luckily, you two and I, you don't, you don't, you don't have to sit in the awkwardness too much.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because we do have a special guest.

[SPEAKER_05]: AJ is joining us once again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not quite the same as the last episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's quite a difference in tone here, AJ.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no magical superstars to come help us with this one.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, the creep is real.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I'm kind of [SPEAKER_03]: was thrust deep into stage four.

[SPEAKER_03]: Depression right off of that started watching this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Probably the first time I have watched this episode in about 15 years.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's so cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: And definitely the first time I've watched it since both my parents had passed away.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it definitely weigh on a lot differently in a post-World.

[SPEAKER_05]: So question about that, AJ, because I'm very interested in your answer to this.

[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like, you know, we've heard from Todd the librarian in terms of like, oh, usually like, it's some people will like skip episodes, specific episodes on a rewatch.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is this that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Is this this is falling to that bucket for you?

[SPEAKER_05]: We're like, because will you watch like an entire season of Buffy?

[SPEAKER_05]: And then like, pick and choose, okay, I'm going to skip these ones, because I just have not in the mood for that sort of a vibe.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you know, the advantage of knowing a show is deeply as I know shows like Buffy or Angel, or that I know where the emotional, you know, punches are, and sometimes I want to watch those episodes, sometimes I really feel the need for some sort of cathartic release and, you know, there's a certain angel episode towards the end of that run that I will often, at least watch like one or two scenes, but I know I need to like get a good cry on, [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I said, I've kind of been avoiding this one.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of also why I picked it because it forces me to watch it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I kind of, for me, this is one of the technically produced best episodes of Buffy.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's stellar in terms of production standpoint and the decisions they made on production and the acting and everything.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it's also on that I just tend to not watch it, which though, you know, you kind of forget.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to revisit it because, like, I, I, I, I, I, I said, with perspective, it, they've, they've had a lot of cool things.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so we'll talk about that because it is it, like you said, it does feel like a technical master piece.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's intention is to make you feel uncomfortable because let's face it, like grief death, all of those things are very uncomfortable and very difficult to deal with.

[SPEAKER_05]: God the name alone is like so uncomfortable and so oh God it's it's so like yeah because that's what you call it that's what the paramedic calls it but it's still like but it's a person but it's not but it's it's it's so much um so Sarah we start off the episode with honestly exactly where we left off with which is Buffy having discovered Joyce um and [SPEAKER_05]: It's this episode is really interesting because there is no score.

[SPEAKER_05]: There is no music.

[SPEAKER_05]: There is no nothing.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is, I think it's diagetic sounds.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is that correct?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's like, that's all we're hearing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And a lot of it feels almost like we're [SPEAKER_05]: we're like a fly on the wall, like we are following like the camera work.

[SPEAKER_05]: Also feels like it's like a person with the camera walking through the house following Buffy and like gosh, to start things off like Sarah Michelle Keller, like just like powerhouse this episode, I think her some of her stuff was the most emotional for me, like just her reactions to things felt so spot on to like what it might be like to be in this situation that Buffy is in.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, a lot of good stuff that you said there.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that that was when the first things that I noticed as well was that it felt like it was shot differently.

[SPEAKER_06]: It sounded differently.

[SPEAKER_06]: My initial, my couple initial thoughts not to be an asshole, but I was like, oh, like we're going like artsy fartsy again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Remember when I was like, right, like, I said that to AJ before we started recording, it feels like a mushroom else.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's exactly what I was like, you know, my more pessimistic side was like, oh, we're doing like the film school student stuff again, but I know that's really disrespectful and I don't mean to be rude, but it just like it felt like that and then I was like, [SPEAKER_06]: When I realized kind of what they were doing with some of the camera shots, I was at first curious and like, oh, shit, this is going to be like kind of like a one shot, but there were cuts, but it felt like that because I think that they lingered on the shot longer than they typically would.

[SPEAKER_06]: So you definitely get like an automatic vibe.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, [SPEAKER_06]: And you're right, Jess, like it's made to make you feel uncomfortable and uncomfortable, it did make me feel like from the very beginning aside from the subject matter, it feels like uncanny valley, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like you're watching something or like, well, this is buffing the vampire slayer.

[SPEAKER_06]: The lighting feels weird.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's no music.

[SPEAKER_06]: The vibes are off.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I feel like that just.

[SPEAKER_06]: adds to the discomfort of the episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I, I'm glad that you said AJ that like it may be kind of gives me permission to that you haven't seen this episode in a while because I chose to only watch it once because of like how uncomfortable it did make me.

[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, that's, you know, like above table, that's a little like bit of a faux paw for like a podcaster who podcast on a subject to only watch the subject once and then fall asleep halfway through the angel episode again.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, like, call me a bad podcaster.

[SPEAKER_06]: But no, it was uncomfortable.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's, the reasoning is intentional.

[SPEAKER_06]: How they shot it, how the cinematography, [SPEAKER_06]: made you feel.

[SPEAKER_06]: And also the content, it was really hard.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I lost my dad around the same age as Buffy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like I was 19 Buffy.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think we're is 20 or 21.

[SPEAKER_06]: I still have my mom.

[SPEAKER_06]: And Buffy's dad is not really around.

[SPEAKER_06]: But this was a bit different.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like Buffy's kind of feeling the feelings of being like almost an orphan and now having to be Don's caretaker.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's a, it's a bit different, but it's, there's so many little moments throughout the episode that we'll discuss that ring so true for somebody who is dealing with grief or how others deal with you when it comes to grief, which is, yes, almost as uncomfortable.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we'll go through it all, but yeah, the initial shy is like, [SPEAKER_06]: just from the very beginning you saw what they were trying to do and they accomplished it for better for worse like for better as in like it's I don't know if I would call it a cinematic masterpiece but like if you want to say that then sure but it definitely achieved what it was trying to achieve.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it felt like it was going for it.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like there's a message behind this episode is what it feels like.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like this is grief in all its uncomfortability in all of its hard to swallow, hard to watch, hard to be involved in.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, let's kick things off.

[SPEAKER_05]: AJ, we start with a flashback, at least, [SPEAKER_05]: I assumed this was a flashback.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know that it was super clear, but I assumed this was a flashback to Christmas dinner versus like, this is Buffy imagining what the next Christmas would be like if that makes sense, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like the Scoobies are all over, Joyce is making food, Angus talking about how there actually is a Santa Claus, but he disembowels children, which was just a fun, very fun moment, I thought.

[SPEAKER_05]: But this is a flashback, is that correct?

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is a flashback.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's kind of in that first stage of grief and the shock, I mean, she's in shock and she just thinks back to this memory, like, you know, just flashes into her head at this happy time.

[SPEAKER_03]: Also from a technical standpoint, it is really brilliant that they chose to do this and they chose to do this because they did not wanna run the name crawl over her body.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right [SPEAKER_03]: put the last scene last episode so that we all know oh my gosh she's dead so we could sit with it for a week because can you imagine if you had come to this episode and just started with this we would have been known because we would have been no position to deal with this but we had a week so that gave up okay we she's dead she's not really dead well she had I don't but at least as a viewer we were prepared for this this heading is I think in a way [SPEAKER_03]: And then to then take you out of it with this light kind of story is like flashback tool to have your time.

[SPEAKER_03]: with references to band candy, with references to, you know, you know, being kind of clueless as to the cultural norms.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yet does that make John really believe in Santa Claus more now?

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it is just that I'll play with it like the typical juxtapositions that Josh likes to do with his script.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it was a really cool way to get into this, which was essentially a one shot, no music, no music, [SPEAKER_03]: using her sightlines, and she's not looking at the paramedic in the eye, so we don't even see the top of his head.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's just a production.

[SPEAKER_03]: My understanding is, and again, who knows if this is a powerful enough, but that 90% of the scene was the first take.

[SPEAKER_03]: She just nailed it, and they took a couple more takes for coverage, and they did a little bit of [SPEAKER_05]: That's incredible, because it does feel like she's fully immersed, like, a sandwich, no color, feels like she's like fully immersed in this scene.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like kind of happy for her that she didn't have to like run this scene a million times, because it it sounds emotionally exhausting, especially because we're with Buffy through this whole [SPEAKER_05]: thing, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: She's calling 911.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's on the phone with 911 and of the paramedics around their way and ambulance is on their way.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's having to administer CPR.

[SPEAKER_05]: She cracks a rib, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like she's like, and this feels like what?

[SPEAKER_05]: It might be like to be in this situation where the person on the phone says, like, oh, do you know how to do CPR and peffices?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I do, but I don't like it's just too much going on for her to remember.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's in shock.

[SPEAKER_05]: She can't even remember how to do CPR.

[SPEAKER_05]: She like, when the ambulance arrives, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, she calls, jials then.

[SPEAKER_05]: She all she says is like, she's here, please come, like she, you know, of course, Giles is going to think she's talking about glory, like he has no context.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this just feels very real that she's panicking and she doesn't.

[SPEAKER_05]: Everything is coming and like fits and spurts.

[SPEAKER_05]: And [SPEAKER_05]: Sarah, I think one of the things that broke my heart the most for Buffy in this whole situation is that she's there alone.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, she doesn't have a single other person who will know what it was like to experience those moments.

[SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, Giles shows up very shortly thereafter, but like she is fully alone when the paramedics get there.

[SPEAKER_05]: When she has to talk to the paramedics, when they leave, [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that whole, yeah, I mean, but that I think that once again, I think that this is just lending to Buffy's like greater character arc of like, I need to like, it's up to me at the end of the day.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I feel like that was probably a choice in the writer's room versus like having Dawn there.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I don't think it would have been terrible to have Dawn [SPEAKER_06]: the body, well, I mean, she tries to see the body later, but, or she does see the body later, but I think that it's just one of those things of like, yeah, like, Buffy has to go at this loan.

[SPEAKER_06]: I have a question, AJ, and I don't know if this is like, a bad question to ask, but did, [SPEAKER_06]: the actress of Joyce choose to lose the show or did the writers of Buffy decide that she was to be written off the show for story reasons.

[SPEAKER_03]: Is that a okay question to ask?

[SPEAKER_03]: so far into this series and it's supernatural and both he deals with death every single week and yet you see she's not able to handle this death.

[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a death impacts the characters and it's not supernatural.

[SPEAKER_03]: It is just a run of the mill.

[SPEAKER_03]: It could happen to any of us.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not gonna walk into my house and you know have the word about a vampire coming in or you know we're all for a demon or something like that.

[SPEAKER_03]: it on the emotional level that is missing from this genre of show quite frankly, and for him to do it in a way where it is made very clear throughout this episode, you know, with puppies hoped that like, oh my gosh, and I've saved you and I go to just in time and everything is like, no, you know, she, she, her regression to a child like state over the course of, you know, [SPEAKER_03]: And then she just says, I don't know what to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: And for the slayer, is there anything worse than that?

[SPEAKER_03]: To be paralyzed by just not knowing what to do?

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the rest of the episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think we have a lot of the conversations that nobody has about this.

[SPEAKER_03]: We're not taught in school, how to deal with this.

[SPEAKER_03]: And everyone's got a, what do we do?

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what to do.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's because these things aren't discussed.

[SPEAKER_03]: to say, you know, up on all shadows to tackle such a serious topic and to do it so seriously with care and, you know, not sure they're going to get in any way.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I think like unless you're a person that has handled these affairs before, I really think like no matter how old you are, you still don't really know what to do, right?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like I feel like it doesn't matter if you're 19 years old or you're 45 or 50 or 60 or whatever.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like [SPEAKER_06]: If it's up to you and it's your first time having to deal with this, it's just like, I don't know what to do.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, who do I call?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, how do I make these arrangements?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, is it really like you see on TV where you have to go into some like place and there's like a, actually furniture showroom of caskets, like, you know, what do I have to do?

[SPEAKER_06]: So I think that it's like a really real [SPEAKER_06]: You know, and like who is she going to call like I was thinking, I mean, once again, like I love that she continues to lean on jiles as that parental figure versus her calling like willow or one of like the younger Scoobies.

[SPEAKER_06]: I feel like.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's going to continue to need to like lean on jiles for all the support because I mean that's the other thing when you lose somebody like people handle grief in so many ways and I think like the best thing you could do is like lean on people that are there for you, but I think a lot of people just [SPEAKER_06]: go into their little shell and try to not deal with it.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm glad that she did reach out to jiles in that moment and not take on the whole thing on her own.

[SPEAKER_06]: Except it's kind of unfortunate that the paramedics left by the time they hear you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was curious about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not having experienced anything similar to what Buffy is experiencing here.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I, so that the, the, the paramedics command, we get that dream sequence of like, oh, you saved her just in time.

[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, that's not real.

[SPEAKER_05]: Joyce is, is dead.

[SPEAKER_05]: The paramedics leave and say, like, oh, the morg will be on their way.

[SPEAKER_05]: Try not to disturb the body, which, [SPEAKER_05]: Again, that's going to keep coming up the phrasing of the body.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know if this is, you know, the show was made in the 90s, things are different now.

[SPEAKER_05]: One would hope.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was immediately like, is there not a...

[SPEAKER_06]: It's not a social worker, because I think it could be counter no because someone who could be there with her we don't pay enough tax money to for that like it's just a setting like the fact that no one is there for her and Switzerland that that others get for the babies no I there's there's nothing like that I mean AJ I don't know if you've had to deal with this like I've never had to in that capacity but like there's no support like [SPEAKER_06]: If anything, the only support I remember is that when my dad died in the hospital, both a priest and a rabbi came around for emotional support.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's the only type of thing that I remember of support, not like a social worker or some sort of like a psychologist therapist.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would think, yes, the paramedics, I understand why they left because they had the other call on the magazine.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's actually great to the opportunity for Buffet Bealot, but I would think probably some police would have come as well because it is a report of, yes, you can look and say, okay, well, it's the natural death of course, nothing to see here.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would think police would show up and the police would probably hang around at least and [SPEAKER_03]: Both of my parents were, and my wife's mother were in the hospital, my wife's father came back home to die because he wanted to die at home.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when he did die, yeah, we called and said, well, he's passed away and we were there with the body until somebody came to collect the body.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like that, that part did bring true, but again, because it was a planned home death.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we know it was like going to be maybe a week to weeks.

[SPEAKER_03]: But being a day because it was not a hospice care at home hospice.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was good.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it just feels like there should be people.

[SPEAKER_05]: And obviously this is me like our society is not so great.

[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of the time.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so like this just it just feels like.

[SPEAKER_05]: there should be someone for Buffy, like because, okay, Buffy has Giles, Buffy has Scoopies, Buffy has a support system.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that is correct.

[SPEAKER_05]: There are people who don't.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so like the idea that there is a Buffy who is alone and is forced to go through this without a single human soul reaching out and saying like, hey are you okay?

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, like let's talk about this.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let me explain to you the next steps.

[SPEAKER_05]: 18, 19, 20, whatever, who has never experienced a significant death in their life, to then this is all of her shoulders, and she is, no, no one, this is not a class you take in school, this isn't anything where anyone explains to you how this is going to work, and it is so upsetting to then watch Buffy try to [SPEAKER_05]: handle quote unquote everything because it's all on her as it always feels like it is and they're not to be a single soul to then say let me lay out exactly what the steps are and how this is all going to work because less face it you don't have to do it until you have to do it and so why would you know how any of this works you know what I mean like I have a vague idea of the process [SPEAKER_05]: my proximity to a person who experienced a sudden parental loss, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I have a little bit of knowledge because of that, nothing like what you would need to actually process and go through all of this.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so I think that maybe one of the biggest things that hit me was just watching.

[SPEAKER_05]: Buffy having to deal with a lot of this alone, even when she's surrounded by people, her grief is so solo because of the fact that she was the only one there.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I wish it wasn't that way.

[SPEAKER_03]: And on top of that, she, she blind sites herself.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if the trial shows up and [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Joe, he also snows a lot and he's like, where's Gloria?

[SPEAKER_03]: Is it Gloria?

[SPEAKER_03]: You said she's in the house, it must be Gloria.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he sees Joyce and runs over and her instincts, she's just running on you to think now.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, you're not supposed to move the body and she instantly catches herself like she just called it the box.

[SPEAKER_03]: And like that is the first and the other step, that is not a step she wanted to take, she was not ready to take it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But how do you come back from that?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, she was completely much of a wreck by that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And right, we saw a commercial, great, you know, like, it gives us time to sit in it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, there's no hell that they give you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I, they said, I remember my father died in, [SPEAKER_03]: luckily because he had a life at illness, we kind of knew that, okay, this is who we call what he dies because that's where he has a funeral bond, you know, this sort of thing, so I had the numbers right here, but if he had died suddenly, I would not have known anything, I would have known that I wouldn't even know that those things existed.

[SPEAKER_03]: What are the next steps?

[SPEAKER_03]: we don't talk about it as a society, we just don't talk about it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And especially because it varies from person to person, right, like in different religions and different cultures, and like there's different steps that you take.

[SPEAKER_05]: So like the answer may not be the same for everyone, and it just feels [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know Sarah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was really struck by again, I can't I can't say enough how like incredible I thought Sarah Michelle Guller was in this episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like her even the movement of like the way she's holding the phone, the way she's holding the paper towels that she grabs.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's all very close to her.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like she needs something to hold on to.

[SPEAKER_05]: The fact that she like immediately just [SPEAKER_05]: My impulse when I'm having an anxiety or panic attack is like I feel like I'm going to throw up.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have thrown up like that felt so real that like her first instance she just throws up at the other room and her first instinct is of course to clean it up like what else is she supposed to do you know.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then it's, it's the mental checklist for her as well of like, I have to deal with this, I have to deal with this, I have to tell a dawn, I have to, you know, the more comes and then I think they bring her to what the, [SPEAKER_06]: I forget, I guess it's a later scene where I think throughout the hospital and whoever it is was like, oh, like, do you want this, this time or the other thing?

[SPEAKER_06]: And she's like, oh, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: Thankfully, Giles was able to take on some of that so that she didn't have to sort that out.

[SPEAKER_06]: And also, I mean, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't really know, like, Joyce is really, really young, and of course she did have cancer, but it wasn't that much, like, that long ago that, like, that whole thing was very sudden, too.

[SPEAKER_06]: What are the odds that Joyce had a living will or those instructions as to what she wants?

[SPEAKER_06]: Or like, when you're 19, you're not talking to your mom, [SPEAKER_06]: or your dad about like, oh, do you wanna be cremated doing it very, like, what's your preference is?

[SPEAKER_06]: I think that a lot of the times, like, my honor that my mom, I don't think hat, my dad didn't have that type of stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: He didn't, they were like, working on a will when he passed and like it wasn't complete and I don't know if, and he was sick for seven years as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, along prolonged period, maybe they should have gone and done, I think, [SPEAKER_06]: If it was me because I'm so like rigid I think like I probably would have had it done I'm surprised at least I wish you're mom to like fall back on Yeah, but I think my point was thank you for gaming back on to the point because of that my mom has her shit in order now and has told me since I mean, I was 21 really like what her wishes were and I think once again It's not until you experience the fact that like oh [SPEAKER_06]: Like my partner didn't have this.

[SPEAKER_06]: I have to figure out on my own.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think she had to do the same with her parents too.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like so that like made her double down like I don't want my children to experience this.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I need to write it all out.

[SPEAKER_06]: But I think that was again, Joyce was beyond.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how old she looks like she's in her.

[SPEAKER_06]: late 40s or something.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'd like, you know, 90s people.

[SPEAKER_06]: They look so much older than they actually do.

[SPEAKER_06]: Joyce is probably 29.

[SPEAKER_05]: If we do some like rough math, if Buffy is like 20-ish, that would put Joyce at probably somewhere between 40 and 50 if she had her young.

[SPEAKER_05]: So [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, so certainly she's on the younger side and I can say because my parents, we've had these discussions now, but my parents didn't have a will until they were until I was in my like 20s.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they were, it wasn't something they were actively thinking about.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just, I don't think it's something you do think about.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe, AJ, we could say once Joyce had a brain tumor, [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's also like you're in survival mode.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's like, you know, you're not thinking, I mean, some people might think of those about those things, but it varies per person and person.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you know, her illness came and went so fast.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then she was like, oh, good.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like I get to live and like live now.

[SPEAKER_06]: Go on dates, no?

[SPEAKER_06]: And then she passed, so yeah, I feel like I don't blame Joyce for that, but it just makes the whole process a lot more difficult.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would say if you live in Sunnydale, you should probably have a well off.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's so good though, so true.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, let me feel with all the deaths and dying that surrounds Buffy, generally the only thing you need to do is grab a broom.

[SPEAKER_03]: If I was to get dust in, like, you're done, like, you want to just leave it there, isn't it, correctly?

[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's the only answer.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, I think, yeah, definitely, it is something that, again, the people don't think about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk about it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a good portion of why he did this episode, which has for the episode as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: And just again, hammering it home without there's no sweeping score.

[SPEAKER_03]: There's no violin music to make your feeling [SPEAKER_03]: It's turned on what's going on on the screen.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yet, it allowed them to do some tricks, which is like, you know, we're all right, you know, the paramedics are gone, she opens up the door and tries to take a breath outside, wind shine, happy wind shine, children playing birds, or going on everywhere else except in Berlin.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's more isolated than it would have been.

[SPEAKER_05]: So as is first on her to-do list, Buffy goes to get Dawn from school.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we see Dawn crying, but it's really, it's because there are rumors about her self-harm incident.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there's this one girl who's like bullying her.

[SPEAKER_05]: As if there's not enough, [SPEAKER_05]: stuff happening to Dawn.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is happening to.

[SPEAKER_05]: We did get to hear her call someone to be a watch which just put this in such a space in time.

[SPEAKER_05]: That may be so happy and a very difficult episode that the be a watch did kill me.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they go to art class and God, this was like [SPEAKER_05]: Again, Sarah Taylor, again, artsy fartsy isn't like the word, but like it, like it felt so on the nose of like we're not drawing the object.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're drawing the space around the object and they're drawing literally a body.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can't really draw the body nose actually.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was really on the nose and so we're done is like, you know, in this art class, she's trying to like get her foot on with this boy and it comes buffy and [SPEAKER_05]: The line, AJ, the line of, was it mom supposed to pick me up?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, like good God.

[SPEAKER_06]: So rough.

[SPEAKER_06]: because like you would think that exactly like they would get called to the principles office like they wouldn't do it in front of everyone John in front of a giant window but the giant window is reminiscent of my experience in the hospital seeing the doctor tell my mom and my uncle that my father passed away while I was in the waiting area and you see it from there so like that I [SPEAKER_06]: kind of was reminiscent for that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then seeing Dawn collapsed the floor, I think that was one of the most heart-wrenching moments for me, because she's so young.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I was thinking, I was doing the math.

[SPEAKER_06]: And once again, it's like very reminiscent of me and my sister and our age gap.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the fact that Miranda, my sister, was only [SPEAKER_06]: 12 years old when my dad passed away, 13, like a little bit younger than Dawn, and it's just so young.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was young.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was young to lose a parent, but she was so young to lose a parent.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, especially because my dad was sick for the majority of her life.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, she didn't get those, a lot of [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was just really rough.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was really rough.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was rough to see like a younger sibling and maybe kind of think about that perspective and just like how vulnerable you are.

[SPEAKER_06]: And it's your mom, you know, like, and it's like her dad's like not really in the picture, but her mom is or at least in her fake little memories.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, let's remember, she's a bunch of nothing, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: She has a bunch of memories, but it's like it's her mom, it's her mom, and she's been told she's okay, like they, they, they were in it with the tumor and then they were in the clear and then to all of the sudden Just be like smacked in the face with this like, now your mom has gone and that's it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, when I tell you Jessica, I told you never trust happiness ever ever.

[SPEAKER_05]: We, I mean, to be fair, we did, we did call it a dress with dye.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was a dead, but that's fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, then we get Willow.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to pay him to Willow's Andortera in Ania, and with Willow, she is having the reaction that feels very true to a friend or a loved one of someone who has experienced loss, which is [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what to wear, what is this going to say about me?

[SPEAKER_05]: I need to be supportive, I can't wear this color, like all my clothes are so childish, I need to be a grown-up, like not knowing what to do with yourself.

[SPEAKER_05]: And this, I would say, willow and Ania are probably who I related to the most this episode, just because I haven't experienced a parental loss of experience loss, but nothing like what Buffy is going through.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have been the person who like gets the phone call in the middle of the night of I have lost a parent.

[SPEAKER_05]: I need you like can you come and like not not being feeling like a kid feeling like I don't know what I am supposed to do because I'm not supposed to have to go through this and you're not supposed to have to go through this and none of us are supposed to have to go through this and what do I wear, what do I say, what do I do?

[SPEAKER_05]: Willow kind of feels like she epitomizes that in a way of like, I want my blue sweater, Joyce loved that blue sweater.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can't find my blue sweater like on you definitely sits on the blue sweater and then puts it away.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, AJ, it felt very real and I also felt like the feeling the need to have to hold it together and being on the verge of not ever being able to hold it together for Willow.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just felt very true to like not only a person, just people in general, [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely, everyone in this episode, the acting, it's just phenomenal, you know, I also have it just not so, I mean, you know, I've heard you say, like, you know, a lot of people have told you that, you know, Tara is their favorite character and they love Tara.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think this episode is like, just shows you exactly why that started to happen with a lot of people because Tara is such a fricking rock in that entire scene.

[SPEAKER_03]: like she's holding in all of her emotions, you know, Willow is like, you know, losing it.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, I'm just coming in and just like saying all the wrong things and Zander is there and being touchy, feeling with Willow, but not in any romantic way.

[SPEAKER_03]: But they're there for each other and that's something that could have put her off.

[SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, no, I get it today.

[SPEAKER_03]: I get it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not gonna get jealous.

[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want me to go to the room?

[SPEAKER_05]: I'll go check for your sweater.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, she's even though we all know Willow is being like, [SPEAKER_05]: it's irrational, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like if you want to call it that, Tara understands that there is no rationality to any of this.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so, like, if you want to blue sweater, I will do whatever it's in my power to get you the blue sweater if it will make you feel at all better.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that's some of this just we, that some of this just we will slip in the first ever lesbian kiss.

[SPEAKER_03]: of characters who are in a long-term relationship in the middle of this whole thing, a historic kiss in television history.

[SPEAKER_03]: And because he does it in such a natural way, in such a normal way.

[SPEAKER_05]: Sarah, we also get Xander and Ania, just like silence in the car as they're driving.

[SPEAKER_05]: And Ania with the questions.

[SPEAKER_05]: And [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I understand these are like uncomfortable questions, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, what are we expected to do?

[SPEAKER_05]: Are we gonna see the body?

[SPEAKER_05]: Are we gonna be in the room with the body?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, are they gonna cut the body open?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, yes, they're uncomfortable questions, but I do feel like they're just questions everyone has.

[SPEAKER_05]: And she's just the only one who's vocalizing them, you know?

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.

[SPEAKER_06]: Because, [SPEAKER_06]: Once again, like especially if this is your first time going through it, you have these questions.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's almost childlike, but [SPEAKER_06]: Ana is the only one that's blunt enough to do it and she doesn't understand which doesn't really make sense a little bit because she's seen like gazillion people die but I guess nobody that she actually cared about so yeah she doesn't think doesn't get it she doesn't get mortal death she doesn't get the culture around it or the the human ritual around death because [SPEAKER_06]: But also, once again, she was a human before, but maybe it's no long that she just can't remember.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think part of it too is she's like, not immortal, but she gets, she ages for so long that like, maybe it just doesn't make sense to her that someone so young could die as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that can be true because like, I mean, she was 40, which means like that's like a fraction of [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I mean, um, I think that, I mean, I really also enjoyed Ania's role to play in all this, because when she finally does break down, it just like hits so much harder.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't recall seeing Ania cry, but like just having her like have it click.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I am never going to see this person again.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I'm never going to speak to her.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm never going to experience this or the other thing or like, you know, grandma's casserole or like we're never going to do something like get our nails done together.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm just like, I'm just thinking of things that like, if I lost somebody, like a friend, like somebody like that, like it's just the [SPEAKER_06]: the typical things that you lose out on the and every day.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's just just it just continues to make her more human.

[SPEAKER_06]: Um, and it's, it's, it's, you know, like, [SPEAKER_06]: Zander can spend all the human lessons on her all the time teaching her how to be a normal person, but it's these like real life experiences that's going to truly make her into a human, or a more human like.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's just one of one of those things.

[SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was [SPEAKER_06]: The Willow and Taricus is that I love how, yeah, natural normal was it didn't have to become a thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it was just, I'm going to kiss you because I love you and I, this is like a moment of like, [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you're here for me and I'm here for you and we're just going to kiss and it didn't have to be a thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: And that's beautiful because I think like that's what everybody that his queer wants is it just did not be discussed.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, I mean, like guess pride, but it's normal.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's just normal.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just normal.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so I love that they did that.

[SPEAKER_06]: And then with Tara as well, you know, I think the reason why one of the reasons why she's such a rock is because And I didn't recall this, but we it's knowledge that we do know she lost her mom before.

[SPEAKER_06]: So she has been through this and she knows this pain and knows like how other people could react.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think like she I think that like otherwise she probably would have been our most [SPEAKER_06]: like, you know, a feet planted to the ground character, but I also think it's the added layer of having this experience that grounds her as well.

[SPEAKER_06]: And later on in the episode, [SPEAKER_06]: Because like the truth is like if anybody's like I don't know what to say to any to my friend or to my relative that lost somebody that's close to them.

[SPEAKER_06]: The answer is there's absolutely nothing you can say and that might not feel like the most encouraging advice.

[SPEAKER_06]: But there's nothing there's absolutely nothing literally the only thing that for and everybody's different for me.

[SPEAKER_06]: showing up, which all of these characters did, is what I need, what I need, or like what I appreciate.

[SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to say a thing, just sit there and be with me, and that's not comfortable, because you, because like you are all, we're all programmed to want to try to fix it and make people feel better and comfortable.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's impossible.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's nothing to say.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's nothing to do.

[SPEAKER_06]: But you [SPEAKER_06]: That's great and they all do that so Tara that conversation that she had with Buffy I think was [SPEAKER_06]: probably the only person if I was putting myself in by fees position that I might have wanted to hear from because I think what Tara said, which I don't remember.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have it written down.

[SPEAKER_05]: She says, so she tells Buffy that her mom died when she was 17.

[SPEAKER_05]: And she says, I'm only telling you this because I know it's not my place.

[SPEAKER_05]: But there's things, thoughts and reactions I had, I couldn't understand, or even try to explain to anyone else, thoughts that made me feel like I was losing it, or like I was some kind of horrible person.

[SPEAKER_05]: I know it's different for you because it's always different, but if you ever need, you know, and then she kind of just trails off, and then Buffy asks, was it sudden, your mother, interest is no, yes, it's always sudden.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: I relate to that information as well on AJ, you might as well too, it's like my dad was sick on dialysis for 78 years.

[SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, he wasn't getting better in this time, his health was declining.

[SPEAKER_06]: We know that day in particular that I was going to lose my dad.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, it doesn't matter how long your parent or whoever is sick.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's always sudden because it's like you don't, you don't get, get given a little piece of paper.

[SPEAKER_06]: This is on this date at this time, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, I don't think that I would like that either, but like you don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: So we guess it is sudden, even if it's not, yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I do love tears reaction all of this and I do I do think it's interesting that like to your point Sarah of not you can't say anything there's nothing you can say that's going to fix anything even on your saying to buffie I wish that choice didn't die because she was nice buffie doesn't have a negative reaction to that right she's like thank you because like [SPEAKER_05]: You could say anything.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to bring her back.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to change things as long as you're not like a total asshole or something.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like there, then there's nothing you can say that's like the wrong thing to say because there isn't a right thing to say.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so that's what I really, I really appreciate about Ania, about Tara, it's like they're all just trying to be supportive, even Zander who's like, [SPEAKER_05]: punching a wall, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like he's representing one of the reactions to grief, which is anger, which is a must have been glory to Willow saying it's not glory.

[SPEAKER_05]: That doesn't make sense.

[SPEAKER_05]: She'd want us to know it was her.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like it just happens.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, and he says things don't just happen.

[SPEAKER_05]: And like, unfortunately, he's wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: Things do just happen sometimes.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there isn't a reason for it.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I do appreciate that like he is giving us just another aspect of like what grief can be, which is, of course, anger, denial, rage, whatever you want to call it, you know.

[SPEAKER_05]: When we get to the hospital, Buffy does find out from the doctor that it seems like it was an aneurysm that was the cause of death.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I really like what they do this episode with like, [SPEAKER_05]: We're so in Buffy's head right to the point of having the like dream sequence earlier to the to the flashback to Christmas that when she asks the doctor like are you sure that she wasn't in a lot of pain, his response is absolutely I have to lie to make you feel better, like just it just felt very real that like it doesn't matter what he's saying like whether or not she believes him it's just like he's going to say, [SPEAKER_05]: She wasn't because that's the thing you want to hear, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And obviously, it's no consolation for Buffy to hear any of this, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: To hear like, there's nothing you could have done, that like, even if you were there, it's so quick, it's so instantaneous, that even if you were there to call the paramedics, most likely nothing could have been done.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's no consolation, but it says really like what's the most helpful is that because Buffy's also going through like the what ifs, um, oh, like if I was here like ten minutes earlier with things matter, no, because she passed away for like a long time ago and it wouldn't happen anyway, but I think that, um, having [SPEAKER_06]: Like, but I don't know, like, could she even does she even believe him?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I don't, it's like nobody knows really.

[SPEAKER_06]: So it's really hard to grasp, especially because there's just so much mystery.

[SPEAKER_06]: And you can't, there's nobody to give these answers.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, at least she has the, [SPEAKER_06]: the confirmation that it was like a brain aneurysm like I still like I know that's not glory but like even I am an indenial that it's not glory like yeah how do I know how can this happen yeah how how how do I know what's not glory how do I know that like this whole thing wasn't glorious fall how do I know that's X, Y, and Z you know it's just hard to when you can't [SPEAKER_06]: Like get a firm answer from the universe or from God or from whatever, then it's just hard to not wonder, you know, yeah, and I mean, [SPEAKER_05]: It is nice to I appreciated that throughout the scene, AJ, we do get trials stepping in and basically being like, let me handle anything that doesn't have to be buffy handling it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And like, I even felt like there was a moment where the doctor was starting to say something else.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's not like, not necessarily jargon, but like, [SPEAKER_05]: Stuff that Buffy wouldn't understand of like next steps, and I felt like Giles was the one to kind of step in and be like, okay, like that, like, it's fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like you can go now, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like that sort of a thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Chuck, how's this?

[SPEAKER_03]: The father figure always has it, you know?

[SPEAKER_03]: And so he stepped up and he was protecting her for a totally 100%.

[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, it's like, [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay, it's such a great acting.

[SPEAKER_03]: Just do it so much understated just reactions from riffing through ahead in this episode as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: He did so much for so little, because, you know, this fall from this, a lot of this dial out of the scene called for me, like just to theater nerd a little bit.

[SPEAKER_03]: It felt a Samuel Beckett play.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was very still to dial out, you know, there's a lot of spaces in between and ever was hitting their marks.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the staging was very, [SPEAKER_03]: kind of like when the doctor calls, calls them, it says I have news, you know, only drows and buffy and dawns that forward and the others retreat and that's such a theater staging and not a television staging but I just I just thought the writing in this episode it was so minimal and yet it used every moment of the full runtime of the episode to tell a story and you don't see that and I think that [SPEAKER_03]: You know, say what you will about the creator of the show and all the problems, the problematic stuff that comes and revelations later on.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you have to be a manipulator of emotions to manipulate the audience this well and it's great for television and it's hard for humanity.

[SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, it's kind of like, because so, or gk rolling, it's like sometimes you really need to try to separate the art from the artist, which is hard, especially with, uh, I feel like culture these days, it's, it's, it's [SPEAKER_06]: We're not, I don't know, I just think that it's harder to separate the art from a artist, but yeah, like you can't deny that like the creator has like a brilliant mind and is an asshole, like the same feature at the same time.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So while Puffy and Tara are having this conversation that we talked about previously, the remainder of the Scoobies go to the vending machine because again, like you said, Sarah, it's like, people want to help.

[SPEAKER_05]: They want to do something.

[SPEAKER_05]: They want to do anything.

[SPEAKER_05]: And maybe getting a snack, you know, will help something.

[SPEAKER_05]: And [SPEAKER_05]: Gosh, it's so real.

[SPEAKER_05]: I love that they come back with the entire of a new machine.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like they're like, we bought everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't know what you'd want.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we bought one of everything just in case.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's so sweet.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's so like understandable to panic by to just be like, let me let me throw food at it and hopefully help something.

[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I ended up with like 72 [SPEAKER_05]: So in the meantime though, Dawn says she's going to go to the bathroom, but she has yet to see the the body joys.

[SPEAKER_05]: She has yet to see her sense all of this went down.

[SPEAKER_05]: And [SPEAKER_05]: This, I thought, was really interesting.

[SPEAKER_05]: In terms of like, are we supposed to read this as like a child's curiosity?

[SPEAKER_05]: Are we supposed to read this as it's hard to grieve something without physically seeing it, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like seeing it to believe it sort of a thing?

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but she goes to the morgue, to see her mom.

[SPEAKER_05]: AJ, why was this the time of vampire?

[SPEAKER_05]: It was like, hey, don't forget the show is still about vampires, and I am here, and I am going to attack you.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, we didn't need you here right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: Guy, okay?

[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's not time.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was, you know, I haven't seen this episode of the salon.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was just thinking of myself like, is there a vampire in the scene or not?

[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't remember, but I do think it did serve a purpose [SPEAKER_03]: You know, A.

Buffy needs to, you know, instinctively react and realize she's this layer.

[SPEAKER_03]: But it be on all this like that that gets her back on on task a little bit, but also seeing Dawn not in the least bit afraid of the vampire.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's afraid to look at the body.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like that just shows how emotionally [SPEAKER_03]: paralyzing death is and because we don't talk about it in this mysterious and it's scarier than vampires.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I do think she wanted to see it because I mean, Buffy even says, I don't think she believes me.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I think Dom thinks I'm lying to her.

[SPEAKER_06]: And why wouldn't she because of all, you know, the key, you know, you know, I think you know, I was like, Don is like such a curious [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, after all, she was Harriet the spy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Very cute.

[SPEAKER_05]: Jesus, she's a stair dweller.

[SPEAKER_05]: She is the spy, a stairwell spy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, just curiosity.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I struggled with the vampire, but I think what you're saying, AJ, is really interesting.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I think that if you look at it at that perspective, then it's [SPEAKER_06]: less out of place, which I just felt like it's just like, why are we doing this?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: On top of it, I think you get that kind of sense that, okay, dead bodies still come back.

[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe maybe my mom can wake up at this point too, like, why doesn't she get to come back?

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, she's a good person.

[SPEAKER_03]: She's not an evil vampire, but he gets to come back.

[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot loaded there.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and especially because like in this struggle, right, like you said before, right, when Buffy takes out the vampire, there's no body to deal with, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's just simply dusted as gone, but Joyce still remains.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now the sheet has like fallen off of her in the struggle.

[SPEAKER_05]: And Dawn finally looks at her mom and says, is she cold?

[SPEAKER_05]: And Buffy says, that's not her, she's gone.

[SPEAKER_05]: like it's and we like in the episode with like Dawn reaching out a hand which again like I don't know how I would feel I really don't know how I would feel if I was Dawn's age.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like [SPEAKER_05]: feeling the need to confirm it, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_05]: Feeling the need to like actually verify that this is a real thing that is happening.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can understand that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It just you just feel awful.

[SPEAKER_05]: You just feel awful.

[SPEAKER_05]: You feel awful for the whole the whole situation, everyone involved and like especially Don and and Buffy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Because Sarah, we've talked so much about [SPEAKER_05]: The relationship between Don and Buffy and just their sibling dynamic of Buffy being so much older and feeling the need to protect Don and like it's unfortunate because if if they were to lose a parent when they were [SPEAKER_05]: in their 30s, 40s, 50s, whatever, the age gap isn't so big there, you know, like you may be can lean on one another, maybe for for more support.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure there's always the instinct of I've to protect my sibling, but like you can maybe lean on each other a bit more.

[SPEAKER_05]: Here, Buffy only sees the need to protect Don from all of this.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so she then, you know, because of that, doesn't have a person to lean on, that is going through a similar pain of grief, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there's Giles who she can lean on, but yes, he enjoys her clothes, they had sex, you know, the whole thing, whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: But like, you know, Don is a daughter of a person who died, just like Buffy is the daughter, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_05]: And she can't really lean on her, [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, I, that is, but also [SPEAKER_06]: You know, two different siblings can react to it in two different ways.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like you can be a year apart and one sibling is avoidant, and doesn't want to talk or seek comfort.

[SPEAKER_06]: And the other one is has more of a touch style and needs that comfort.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I don't even think it's an age gap thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's just a person to person thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's rough.

[SPEAKER_06]: It was a rough episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's a rough thing to go through at any age.

[SPEAKER_06]: I can imagine and Yeah, I I think that it was a good episode to watch once or once every [SPEAKER_06]: 15 years, I think, I think that that's how I feel.

[SPEAKER_06]: And not because it's a bad, it's kind of reminds me a lot of what my main source of entertainment is typically music.

[SPEAKER_06]: I listen to music all the time.

[SPEAKER_06]: And there's definitely songs from certain albums that it's not like I dislike the song.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just don't listen to it because it's too real.

[SPEAKER_06]: affects me emotionally and I think that this episode is kind of like that.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it's a bad episode by any means.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just don't want any part of it ever again.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so that's fair.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would say with that perspective of not watching her for a very long time in the watching, again, like I said, when it first aired, I was much younger, and I am right now.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it has been 12 years now since my father died and nine since my mother died.

[SPEAKER_03]: But I had to say, it was nice to me to get a cathartic chocco because when I went to, [SPEAKER_03]: When my mother died, and I went to see the body in the hospital the next day, I got a parking ticket.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, not only did I get a parking ticket.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the hurts that came to pick up her body to transport it to the cemetery also got a parking ticket for for parking in the loading zone, which is exactly where it was supposed to be.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I just think horses should be like immune from that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That just feels wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.

[SPEAKER_05]: That feels wrong.

[SPEAKER_03]: The loading zone.

[SPEAKER_03]: four bodies and it's still going to park a ticket.

[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I got, but I, I have forgotten because again, haven't seen this episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, okay, I'm not the only one who gets a kind of hearty ticket.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I could see this being an episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: You go to, if like, you need to feel things, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, if you need, if you need to like get it out, but also like, [SPEAKER_03]: This is rough man, like this was a rough one to watch, uh, this is probably one of the top five best written buffy episodes, but again.

[SPEAKER_03]: that sheared like acting, writing, technically produce.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I'm not watching it.

[SPEAKER_03]: If I have, I'm gonna skip it.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's too tough.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's too rough, like these actors are too good, you know, like they're all so on point that it's too much.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the movie Requiem for a dream, which I saw once and I said, wow, that was great.

[SPEAKER_03]: I never watching this movie ever.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there are reasons I won't watch certain films and it's because it's like I don't need to feel those things like I'm okay I'm good like I don't I'm a right.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm I'm happy with my feelings at this current moment But yeah, that was that was our episode It was a lot it was really well done.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was intended to make us feel every part of of of grief which isn't a fun experience, but like [SPEAKER_05]: Whew, I really hope next week we're just on the funeral.

[SPEAKER_05]: I, like, I can't take another one of those in a row.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean, so I can't go yet.

[SPEAKER_03]: Good, I tell you, I think they realized this when during the original run on the show, and there were six weeks in between this episode and the next episode of Muffy.

[SPEAKER_03]: So they gave us time to just relax and take a break and then we come back in six weeks and like, okay, we're ready for Muffy again.

[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I know we'll see a funeral at this point, just like, yeah, what more is there to say, honestly?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's the thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't think having had this episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: I can't imagine us.

[SPEAKER_05]: doing the whole like, okay, and if they do the depending on, you know, a culture in religion and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, if they do the wake and the funeral in the whole, like, I don't, I can't see us doing that, and I've said this before.

[SPEAKER_06]: No offense to any religion.

[SPEAKER_06]: I still think Jews do it best.

[SPEAKER_05]: You do, you listen, saying this as a person who has attended just so many wakes and funerals, like a Catholic, wake, mass, funeral, like, [SPEAKER_05]: Good, like it's enough enough enough enough enough.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's too much.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's enough.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I know.

[SPEAKER_03]: The ground baby.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, please, like, I can't take it.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's rough.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is rough out here.

[SPEAKER_06]: I still don't understand.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, there has to be a reason, but I don't understand wakes as like a concept.

[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, when you both and I've attended many, many of them, yeah, I listen.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've long said once I'm gone, big party, good food, good drink, have a good time, play fun, loud music.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I want.

[SPEAKER_05]: I want people to have a good time.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, it's just going to be like 60 dogs barking as loud as they possibly can.

[SPEAKER_05]: Sounds like my idea of heaven.

[SPEAKER_06]: What is silent funeral?

[SPEAKER_06]: Nobody there.

[SPEAKER_06]: Nobody there, actually.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, no, he's an old bug.

[SPEAKER_05]: Purn me to a crisp and call it a day.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, please.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want people staring at my dead body.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'll say to you guys, is, of course, no spoilers at all.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm getting for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to be the one to ruin this party, but this show has a very long memory.

[SPEAKER_03]: They do not forget things.

[SPEAKER_03]: So even though it was six weeks, it was a very long memory.

[SPEAKER_06]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of like they never let me get away with anything right like I'm like We can't be happy.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we'll just go beyond it.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, then there's just like no, you may not go.

[SPEAKER_06]: They got a like we both sitting in this brief forever Oh, maybe we'll just forget this whole thing happened.

[SPEAKER_06]: There's like no, we will not we will bring up this one character nine years later and I might know Be like every other show, Buffy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, look at your history like boy meets world does they constantly forget it [SPEAKER_06]: You're it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're different, um, oh, one more one more conceptual question, do you think that if they knew for sure that Joyce was going to die, do you think that they would have humored?

[SPEAKER_06]: the idea of turning Joyce into a vampire.

[SPEAKER_06]: So that's what I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_05]: Stop it!

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm just asking the question, like you want your mom alive, just like make her into a vampire, and then like call like 1-800-CHIP, you know?

[SPEAKER_06]: And then you have your mom for like ever.

[SPEAKER_06]: Which might be too long, but...

[SPEAKER_06]: at least you'll have her.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_06]: Probably not.

[SPEAKER_03]: Remember, what you asked if there were any dumb questions?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm gonna talk to you.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure that some other vampire show did it.

[SPEAKER_06]: They were like, oh, like, this person's like, has syphilis and is going to die of like syphilis plus climdia.

[SPEAKER_06]: And they're like, okay, let's just turn them into a vampire.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, no, that's just Darla.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was gonna say that starless speaking of.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's do some courties corner.

[SPEAKER_05]: Let's talk about a pet cry.

[SPEAKER_06]: I tried.

[SPEAKER_06]: I would like, there is, it's a phenomenon, honestly.

[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I'm not, it's getting impressive.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's getting impressive.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't have issues falling asleep, but every single time I try to watch Angel, I fall asleep halfway through the episode.

[SPEAKER_06]: This time I was up right, but then I watched it and I got very sleepy and then I went to bed.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I tried.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so let me give you the cliff notes on what happened now.

[SPEAKER_05]: Luckily for Angel, his soul remains intact even though Darla is the best lay.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, she's a bad lay.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, she's extra perfection Sarah.

[SPEAKER_07]: No, she's bad.

[SPEAKER_05]: Though she knows she knows how to fuck a soul's man, a man's soul out of his body, it just doesn't work.

[SPEAKER_07]: I think, canonically, she's a bad guy.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he doesn't, he still has the soul, and Darla thought he was gonna lose his soul because again, she's a great lay.

[SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't happen.

[SPEAKER_05]: He immediately is like, has, again, this is his epiphany.

[SPEAKER_05]: This, okay, I don't, okay, in AJ, I don't.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't understand that so this is the turning point right like the sex with Darla and him realizing that he is stuck with a soul whether he likes it or not.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is the epiphany he needs to not be such a dickhead to his friends.

[SPEAKER_05]: Is that what we're being told?

[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe his epiphany is I shouldn't have tried to spin up now.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, not luck.

[SPEAKER_03]: I will say there is a shift in Angel a couple of episodes from now and it's [SPEAKER_03]: without giving anything away.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to spoil that.

[SPEAKER_03]: But in a couple of episodes, the writers of Angel had a problem where several of the actors had other commitments, and we're not going to be able to shoot any more episodes.

[SPEAKER_03]: So for the final four episodes of season two of Angel, they did this complete shift side quest, which divided the fan base.

[SPEAKER_03]: I happen to think it's very fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the turning point of the series because when they come back from it, it's a completely different show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Some people, you didn't think they're pointless in the worst episodes ever.

[SPEAKER_03]: But the writers' hands were tied a lot because of this and they had to rush these storylines.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think the epiphany is, oh crap, we're losing Julie Benz to another show.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh crap, Elizabeth Rome is just got a cast on law and order.

[SPEAKER_03]: So let's get rid of Kate.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like, a lot of things were happening here where they're like, our hands are tied.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that was the epiphany more than I think else.

[SPEAKER_05]: yeah it just felt like very out of nowhere um it just felt there it's just like and now I've had an epiphany and you need to leave Darla because I need to go save Kate and it's like okay Sarah I I am officially on ship watch okay because this is the thing [SPEAKER_05]: I Angel is a man show at best for me, currently.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the current state of things, I am so mad.

[SPEAKER_05]: I am the most mad on Angel as a show.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the only thing pushing me through is trying to guess what they're gonna tell us.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so I just am like, in general, in general, I'm like, I'm watching, I'm looking out for ships everywhere.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'm like, who are we going to pair up on this show?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because we've gone too long without some love interstop happening, obviously darling angel or fucking, but this is not long term.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we've gone too long, there needs to be something.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I've got my eyes peeled, that's what I'm focusing in on.

[SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that that's been going on for like two seasons.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if it's like what have happened, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like if it's going to happen.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's that's kind of my take, but she is a blonde.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's a blonde.

[SPEAKER_06]: The love's a blonde is why, but [SPEAKER_06]: I feel like it would have happened by now.

[SPEAKER_06]: And nobody wants to get into a relationship with somebody that's like mid mental breakdown.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's having a rough goal.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's alive.

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm glad that she's alive.

[SPEAKER_06]: But like I think that she needs a little bit of TLC before Angel jumps that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Also, you know, you know what I'm going to say.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, cab Angel, come on now.

[SPEAKER_05]: Stop it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: So.

[SPEAKER_05]: Then, uh, okay, then, Lindsey, Lindsey, can I just say, how chuffed a bit how fucking tickled I was when I saw Lindsey driving that little red truck put that Christmas tree on in the back, Lindsey, come on man, taste the season.

[SPEAKER_06]: his the season.

[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if I saw that.

[SPEAKER_06]: That was definitely after I was played.

[SPEAKER_05]: He probably was.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's driving this, well, it basically what happens in AJ, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm literally any of this because I'm watching the show, but like am I consuming it?

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lindsay is pissed off because he's a guy and he's jealous because Darla fucked Angel and he now knows about it and he is pissed and he says, I'm an fucking killer guy because I have masculine rage.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so he wants to go kill Angel, but Angel, he won't be fucked around with.

[SPEAKER_05]: He takes, he smashes the fuck out of that fake hand, that lintie.

[SPEAKER_04]: And it's, really what?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, like the anchor?

[SPEAKER_05]: No, it was not an anchor.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, I think it was like a, [SPEAKER_05]: What's it like a what's it what's a crowbar was it like a crowbar or something so he he needs to kill Lindsay and he he doesn't kill it's he kills Lindsay's hand and then meanwhile because we're picking up from last episode courty as if her haircut isn't tragic enough that was a fucking eyeball on the back of her head why.

[SPEAKER_05]: AJ Waters show hate Cordelia.

[SPEAKER_05]: Tell me, explain it to me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think because Josh hates Cordelia.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I mean, she's still learning that.

[SPEAKER_03]: We learned why, unfortunately, um, I will say that I have not, I haven't been rewatching angel along with you guys, but I watch people several times.

[SPEAKER_03]: I enjoyed the show immensely, like I say, um, the show's about to get a lot less dark for the rest of the season.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, like, is in, it's not so bad, manny, soon as as in genuine comedy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, great.

[SPEAKER_03]: We love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: We love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: The tone shifts.

[SPEAKER_03]: And again, a lot of it is because they were doing this serious, oh, that was the kill.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it becomes, oh, we don't have those actors anymore.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do something.

[SPEAKER_03]: You wouldn't make it fun.

[SPEAKER_03]: You cannot guess where this storyline is going in two episodes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: I love that for my, I love that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely not.

[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe they'll keep Sarah awake.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Will it keep you awake?

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll keep you awake because you, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're [SPEAKER_05]: Meanwhile, so Cordelia, I ball in the back of her head, angel bus to go to Wesley's house and is like, hey, man, we cool, we're friends now, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because I need to save you, and poor Wesley who's still in a wheel chair is like, yes, please come save me because there's angry scary demons behind me that are trying to kill me.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, but he's still he's still he's peed off.

[SPEAKER_05]: He is [SPEAKER_05]: Pied off at Angel because Angel you can't just be a dick and fire all your friends and be mean to them for weeks And then show up and be like, hey, we cool we friends.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, you're not friends But they all have to go save Cordelia because the demons be demoning, you know [SPEAKER_05]: uh, they get caught because they're not stealthy at all.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and uh, then angel takes Lindsey's little red truck with the Christmas tree in the back and fucking drives through the house.

[SPEAKER_05]: The, the people that called Cordelia to get her to come over.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah [SPEAKER_05]: uh, and saves them basically.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and Darla's now gone.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's missing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lindsay doesn't know where she is.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Cordelia.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is the other ship I'm on.

[SPEAKER_05]: I got my eyes on, Sarah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm looking at them.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so angel.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they're talking about like, oh, oh, because him and Wesley Angel and Wesley are going to find Cordelia.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're trying to find Cordelia.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, well, she's probably out with friends, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like she's so many French, probably partying [SPEAKER_05]: You haven't, you don't know Cordelia anymore.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's like the hardest worker.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's so lonely.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's zero friends.

[SPEAKER_05]: She would not be out.

[SPEAKER_05]: So this is a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then when they all reconvene at the end, Cordelia is the one who feels like she has not forgiven Angel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like she's the most like resentful.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm like, oh, no, no, in him the longest.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, are they setting up an Angel Cordelia thing?

[SPEAKER_06]: Probably, but I hope not.

[SPEAKER_05]: She deserves so much better, okay?

[SPEAKER_05]: The other thing I got my eyes out for is because Wesley was defending Cordelia.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, are we gonna retry the Wesley Cordelia thing that we tried one time, and it was really bad?

[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, to be honest with you, this show, as we should all be remembered, is for the bros, and what are girls for?

[SPEAKER_06]: Making dinner, and for the bros, [SPEAKER_06]: dating.

[SPEAKER_06]: So yes, of course, Cordelia is going to be getting with Angel most likely because what else would be she because he's the name of the show for, you know, yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I'm being, I'm being, you know, sarcastic, but I'm I'm believing it for like fully.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: We are still in the 90s, people.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're still going to be romance because it's a television show in the 90s.

[SPEAKER_06]: Cordelia's [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you know, um, the problem.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the other thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to say something.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to say something to all the people out there listening who have watched angel several times, or maybe even just once, but are aware of where this is all going and listening to just this hour here and it's delightful.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm going to throw a little spoiler out there that's not a it's not a spoiler for you guys, but for them, like they're still living in a [SPEAKER_05]: Bruce Log gives Glygglob energy.

[SPEAKER_06]: She's a Glygglob.

[SPEAKER_05]: Glygglob's.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, the other interesting tidbit that I don't know if this is important, but felt worth mentioning is apparently because we Angel ended up saving Kate when she was possibly O.D.ing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Kate reveals that she never invited Angel into her home.

[SPEAKER_05]: but he was able to enter and save her.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if that means anything, but it felt worth mentioning because vampires aren't supposed to do that.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're not supposed to be allowed to do that.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't know what the fuck that's about.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh wait, are you saying that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Fucking Darla fixed him in some way.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe he's a human now?

[SPEAKER_05]: No, he's definitely not.

[SPEAKER_05]: He's still a vampire for sure, sie's.

[SPEAKER_06]: How do we know?

[SPEAKER_06]: Have we seen his teeth?

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I don't know if we did.

[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like he still had like super strength and stuff I thought.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, not.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he's, I'm maybe he's super in on a vampire.

[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe Kate just, you know, welcomes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe in her drunken voice mail she invited him in.

[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I mean, that's true.

[SPEAKER_06]: She did send a very long drunken voicemail.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_06]: And probably some of it was like, why don't you come here and show me?

[SPEAKER_06]: Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, [SPEAKER_05]: And then by the end of the episode, the crew is kind of back together.

[SPEAKER_05]: They're going to all work back together, but they need to, he needs to earn back their trust and yada yada yada.

[SPEAKER_05]: And again, because I'm on shipwatch people.

[SPEAKER_05]: When Cordelia has her next division, Angel is the one that catches her before she falls to the ground.

[SPEAKER_05]: I just hope the need to point that out.

[SPEAKER_06]: So what do you want, Jess?

[SPEAKER_06]: Like I've always been better for Cordelia, that's what I want.

[SPEAKER_06]: Okay, so then if you had to choose one of these little ships that you're collecting, which ship do you want to set out to see?

[SPEAKER_05]: I think it might be fun if Wesley and Cordelia like actually ended up having chemistry after that first very boxed attempt, but I also really like them as friends.

[SPEAKER_05]: I definitely don't want her to be with Angel.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, she does her so much better than boring Angel.

[SPEAKER_05]: I want her to find a wealthy suitor because she does her.

[SPEAKER_05]: Someone treats her nicely and gives her what she wants.

[SPEAKER_06]: Who do you think likes money more, Cordelia or Ania?

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, good question, I mean, at this point on you're certainly making more money.

[SPEAKER_05]: So probably her also, we just recently watched the Charlie Brown Christmas special and there's a moment where Lucy, because she has her little like therapy station with her like five cents per whatever and she's like, there's a full.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is a very short thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like 20 something minutes and there's like a full minute of her shaking the [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, I don't remember that.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't remember this.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, that's where we are.

[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that Cordelia likes the trappings of money where Ania loves the concept of money more.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but that was our angel episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so that's where we are.

[SPEAKER_05]: The gang is back together.

[SPEAKER_05]: Angel apparently had an epiphany after having sex with Darlab.

[SPEAKER_05]: Good for him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, Darlab is nowhere to be seen.

[SPEAKER_05]: Lindsey is down one hand yet again.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, [SPEAKER_05]: short-handed and he drives a little red truck, which I will never forget.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's nice, it's very nice to see an angel episode with the gang all in harmony, because it doesn't happen very much.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and the host was around again, but mostly just to be like, hey, Angel, your friends are going to die tonight, so maybe you better do something about that, you know.

[SPEAKER_05]: MVP, that guy.

[SPEAKER_05]: He really, he really knows what's up.

[SPEAKER_05]: So next week, our episodes are as follows.

[SPEAKER_05]: Season five episode 17 of Buffy forever.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how I feel about that title.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's choice dead forever.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, or we, yeah, we're probably okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: Angel, season two episode 17, this harmony.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it's harmony coming over.

[SPEAKER_05]: Would love that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, she's gonna sing at the karaoke bar.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I would love that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That would be so fun.

[SPEAKER_05]: I want to see her in the host interact.

[SPEAKER_05]: That would be so entertaining.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's all we have going on next week.

[SPEAKER_05]: And apparently this is also an angel episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: You have to watch Sarah.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is highlight on this right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, better get my caffeine in before yeah drink some coffee sit up right, you know, the whole deal the whole night.

[SPEAKER_05]: keep those eyelids, keep those feepers poppin'.

[SPEAKER_03]: I really should.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sarah, Sarah, you'll be happy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then a quick, quick little hit on some feedback we got.

[SPEAKER_05]: Joe, a send-ton of message.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is one of my all-time favorite buffy episodes.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe even just TV.

[SPEAKER_05]: The lack of soundtrack in music plays so well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Amazingly acted and how each character gets their moment to grieve just brilliant.

[SPEAKER_05]: Which, all right, yeah, kind of set up better, you know?

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, we also got an email from Sophie.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you guys finally made it to the body.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was a tough one where you prepared for any episodes like this.

[SPEAKER_05]: The way you were speaking about it last week didn't seem like this was what you were expecting.

[SPEAKER_05]: I hope Sarah made it out.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: As just as a cryot media, I assume she was fine.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was just laughing.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was not laughing.

[SPEAKER_05]: I did not laugh with this.

[SPEAKER_05]: I did laugh at the big cry.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, but I didn't laugh at the beach.

[SPEAKER_06]: No, I cried.

[SPEAKER_06]: I cried.

[SPEAKER_06]: I cried.

[SPEAKER_06]: I definitely cried when Don with the Don thing.

[SPEAKER_06]: I definitely cried.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think with Anya breaking down.

[SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying to think.

[SPEAKER_06]: I cried twice.

[SPEAKER_06]: I just can't remember exactly when.

[SPEAKER_06]: Definitely at the Don stuff.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's what you hit me the most.

[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it's considered one of the highest rated episodes of Buffy, at least top three and too many one of the best depictions of grief and the moments after the death of a loved one.

[SPEAKER_05]: If it wasn't obvious, this is the episode that people skip when they talk about skipping a Buffy episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that makes sense, especially from season five.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and then, uh, there's a couple of behind the scenes things, uh, some of the age I already mentioned for Dolls Skip, but, um, apparently the opening scene, uh, Joss we didn't felt really bad because of how many times Sarah Michelle Geller had to do it and she had to, because it was a one shot, she had to do like the part where she's happy and like looking for her mom straight into like the finding part, uh, which is like that's brutal.

[SPEAKER_05]: And now that there are so many shows on streaming, this is especially prevalent as Jasper at the episode with TV, Act breaks and production in mind, like the holiday scene or how the episode is divided into four acts.

[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone to get each act beginning, showing Joyce's face right after each commercial break.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, apparently the actor Christine Sutherland, uh, published joys was ready to leave the show after season three.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think she wanted to spend more time with her family or something and just told her you can't leave yet because I'm planning to kill you in season five.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he made a deal with her and let her off for season four.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's why she only appears in like four episodes.

[SPEAKER_05]: She had a break.

[SPEAKER_05]: She came back for season five only to be killed off.

[SPEAKER_05]: Josh really commended her acting in this episode and has said that she was a real trooper and only blinked once when showing all the close-ups of her lifeless face and that they took out and post-production.

[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, see, you know what?

[SPEAKER_06]: That was actually one of my questions.

[SPEAKER_06]: I was just like, because we saw the body a lot.

[SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, maybe they made a really expensive dummy and they had to get their money as worth, but it was the address evidently.

[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's critical information to know.

[SPEAKER_05]: I gotta say, I didn't need to see the body so many times.

[SPEAKER_05]: I understand the purpose for it, but I can't with the open eyes.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's too much for me.

[SPEAKER_05]: Spike, uh, Spike's absence, the way James Marshmarsters tells it, uh, Spike, who is American, L.O.L.

[SPEAKER_05]: uh, Jessica, uh, came up to him.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hands him the script and says, this is probably the best thing I've ever written and I'm really sorry, but you're not in it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so James goes home and reads the script and tells Josh the next day.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I get it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Spike wants no part of this.

[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and then as to the final vampire, which we, we talked about, uh, it's quite controversial.

[SPEAKER_05]: Many people find it quite jarring for Buffy to face the vampire after an episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: So grounded in reality, and wanted there to be no vampire in just a straight episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: Just left it in there on purpose.

[SPEAKER_05]: As he said that even when someone you love dies, life still goes on and that you have to deal with the trivial and mundane nuisances of life and for Buffy.

[SPEAKER_05]: That is fighting vampires and I hope you like.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, that's true I hope you like the episode even if you aren't the biggest fans of joys and it wasn't too tough Especially so close to the holidays.

[SPEAKER_05]: It is one of my top buffy episodes looking forward to what's to come Dot dot dot Sophie.

[SPEAKER_05]: I see those ellipses.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: I see them.

[SPEAKER_05]: I see them in the email Bezos Sophie What's to come [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, yeah, it was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_03]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a great idea.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, it's by one day I'm gonna be able to click all the spoily things.

[SPEAKER_05]: She's talking about a discord channel, which is yes, and people are mean and they leave me out of things that I don't like it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Not our discord channel, we don't have one.

[SPEAKER_05]: No.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, that's the episode, that's the feedback.

[SPEAKER_05]: AJ, thank you so much for coming on to a very difficult episode.

[SPEAKER_05]: You picked a doozy, you picked a tough one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I did.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I like to keep you guys on your toes and I think that every time I come here, it's going to be all more fun, Maryman.

[SPEAKER_03]: So...

[SPEAKER_05]: The most depressing episodes.

[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's also like...

[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I feel like very like impressed that you like challenged yourself.

[SPEAKER_06]: That's the right word of like haven't seen this in a while.

[SPEAKER_06]: It's going to be difficult, but like I want to face that, especially after seeing it with a new perspective.

[SPEAKER_06]: So I commend you on that as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate that.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's you know, it's like when I watch shows that when I was younger I identified with the kids and now I watch those same shows and I did if I would the parents And yeah, like my so-called life is that one where I was like, oh, these kids I don't know.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the parents I really do.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's always good to go back and and challenge yourself to see these things from a different perspective and The quality shows are going to hold up regardless [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, and the ones that don't, you go, you know, you know, when I was a child, I played with childish things and I can leave them behind.

[SPEAKER_03]: So luckily, I'm not leaving Buffy behind, so.

[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's about everything.

[SPEAKER_05]: AJ, is there anything you want people to check out?

[SPEAKER_05]: Anywhere people can find you if you have anything else going on.

[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a lot of podcasting stuff going on, so I reserve myself for a select few and you guys are in that group, so thank you for giving me the outlet.

[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just found a go on with you guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: But if you want to track me down on BlueSki at AJMAS on the BlueSki, I am here and on the bar.

[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, if you want to check out some sports stuff on a four-letter website, you know where to find me there too.

[SPEAKER_05]: Alright, and, uh, Sarah and I have this, have this going on, uh, so listen to listen to Buffy.

[SPEAKER_05]: We'll be back next week with more Buffy, hopefully, uh, maybe there'll be some comedy in next week's episode, but if not, then we'll be here regardless, so, uh, until next time here and if the lesson.