All right, Hello.

Welcome to 70 or 70 Muppets.

It's the fan podcast.

You guys know, it's it's Howard Tubman's week, guys.

I, I mean, Howard Tubman.

Bill Beretta performs him debuts 1996.

And I guess someone had to talk about Howard Tubman.

And you know, we all we all drew straws at the tough pig's office and Shane drew the shortest straw, which meant he got the screaming go to podcast and I drew the second shortest straw, which means here I am recording about Howard Tubman.

I you know, I oh, I'm Becca.

I should have said that I'm, I try to be really positive about The Muppets.

I try to be happy.

I frequently say that Howard Tubman is my least favorite Muppet, and it's gonna be interesting to talk about him today.

I'd love to get into why I dislike him, but I felt like if I was going to have to do this one, I was going to need help.

So I I got not just one, but two great guests from the Muppeter G Podcast, David Levy and Adam Grossworth.

Thanks for having us on the question Mark.

Yeah.

So to be here.

Talking about Howard, Howard Tubman guys, your favorite Muppet.

He he he he sure is a muppet that I am vaguely aware of.

I mean he is at least one person's favorite muppet because there is a super cut on YouTube of all of his appearances to date.

It is, it is quite short, but I do want to thank that person for making it because it was instructive and also I am thankful that it was quite short.

Yeah, she she notes that it's her favorite Muppet.

And to that I want to say like.

Why?

Have you ever seen Fozzie Bear?

Does the name Gonzo ring a bell?

Let me introduce you to Miss Piggy if you like pigs.

But you know, Howard Tubman, like you guys said, really hasn't been in much.

You know, it feels like last week with the Screaming Goat, we were talking about how little the Screaming Goat has been in Howard Tubman is an interesting case because Howard Tubman didn't appear in the United States really until it's a very Merry Muppet Christmas movie in 2002 because all of his scenes on Muppets Tonight were UK spots.

So I have some thoughts about that.

Howard Tubman's introductory role was as part of a recurring bit originally called the Tubmans of Pork Smith and then later boars had revisited.

And in them they're they're introduced as like the continuing story of America's oldest and fattest family.

And it is very easy to to focus in on fattest because they are just fat joke after fat joke after fat joke.

That is literally the only thing about these sketches.

But I actually think America is the key to understanding what they were trying to do there, which does not excuse it.

But I don't think that this is just straight up fat phobia.

I think this is anti American fat phobia for a British audience to be like, ha ha, those Americans, they're so fat and lazy and stupid and, and fat, fat, fat, fat, fatty fat, fat, fat, fat.

And, and, and the the sketches are are like really lated with other like American coding.

First of all, the fact that they have like very American accents, but also like in the first few, like the foods are all like very American foods, this Yankee pot roast and colonial rum cake and you know, I think that that they are.

Somebody calls him a Yankee Doodle Dandy at one point.

Well, that's part of it too.

And I think I actually, even for an American audience, this is the part that I was like, I sort of maybe see what they're doing here, but oh, wait, I'm offended.

Where?

But like, he, he is an American aristocrat, right?

So it is about right.

He is.

He is so wealthy that he doesn't have anything else to do with his time but eat and like loaf around, right.

So he is lazy.

He is constantly eating.

He is a pig.

So like, OK, I sort of see how you got there.

But it is it is the sort of general like and like his his long-suffering Butler who is sort of an interesting, I thought more interesting character and a more interesting puppet.

I thought, you know, that it's like, oh, you know, would you look at this like incredibly rich loser and then, you know, add to that and he's stupid, right.

And then if you, you sort of put the British gloss on that too, of like Americans don't know how to do aristocracy.

We know how to do aristocracy.

Like it it it I sort of get it.

And I just wish that it there's a way at that joke that isn't just, oh, I'm so fat.

I have.

You know, if I eat one more piece of piece of cake, I'll get literally stuck in this chair.

His introduction is him stuck in a chair that he cannot get out of because somehow while he was eating, he got wider and couldn't get out.

But.

But but, but again, thinking about, like, what frame you're looking at this through, Howard is not unhappy.

He loves being fat.

He loves eating.

Yeah.

He doesn't care that he's stuck in a chair.

It's the Butler who wants to get him out of the chair.

He'd be perfectly happy to stay in that chair as long as he can reach more food.

And there is something nice about that, like in that, you know, unlike, say, Miss Piggy, who if you call her fat, she will clock you.

But Howard's like, yeah, I'm fat.

It's the best thing ever.

Hand me a hot dog, even though I'm a pig.

Even though it might be made for me.

David, David, are you telling me that this is a sketch about like, radical body positivity?

No.

Because because I'm not.

The the.

Convinced.

Because the sketch is trained in such a way that it looks down on him for thinking that.

But I, but I think that that's the difference between the character and the use of the character.

So I like, I think there's something about the character that's redeemable, even though he is being put in this frame that is really nasty by by the writers.

And I think that it's it's interesting too.

His voice.

The first time I heard it, I was like, oh, is he doing a Dom de Luise impression?

And or actually, my original thought was, was he doing a James Coco impression?

And then it was like, no, it's.

A famous diet book author James Coco.

Right.

That's true.

That's true.

But both of them were like very associated with, you know, sort of being happy to both joke about being fat, but also with loving food.

They were both, you know, James Coco wrote cookbooks, Dumbbell Louise because he looked like Paul Prudhomme also had a whole like food thing going on, which I think also sort of is the key to what happens next.

And we'll get to what happens next, yeah.

So I just have to be positive and truly, truly, I am grateful to the person who put the Super cut on YouTube.

And if you're listening, also, sorry that we are saying bad things about your favorite muppet, but you know she.

Probably tuned in so excited like tough I'm.

Sorry, podcast.

About my favorite Muppet.

But but really, thank, thank you for this because it was really instructive because I mean, as you said, right, the The Muppets Tonight spots were UK spots.

So we had not seen them before.

I have a very strong memory of Howard Tubman that I sort of like assumed I had seen him before.

It's turns out was his most recent and final appearance or nearly most recent significant appearance.

I've not forgotten the order, but that's OK and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

The The Muppets Now one, we'll get to it shortly.

I remembered that and I remembered it like sort of viscerally despising it, which we'll get to.

But what I found interesting, like, you know, there are all these stories about characters who do or don't work right away and and performers getting attached to particular puppets for whatever reason.

I mean, obviously Miss Piggy, you know, I think the most famous example of that and, and how much she changes from Season 1 to Season 2 of The Muppet Show and has multiple performers.

And I am not, to be clear, comparing Howard Tubman favorably Miss Piggy.

Because he's better.

Sure, and I also just don't like the puppet.

I just think it's ugly, but that's all.

That's also like ugly on purpose.

That's part of the point.

But you know, and like, very famously, right, Elmo was sort of kicking around and then Kevin Clash picked him up one day and it became Elmo Elmo.

And right.

So like, that can happen and I, I assume, I don't know this, but it seems to me that Bill Beretta saw this puppet, thought it was cool, was attached to it and like tried to do something and then tried to do something a little bit different and tried to do something a little bit different.

And getting to watch that evolution in a 17 minute supercut, whether I personally like that evolution or not, was just like as a person who is interested in The Muppets and thinks the Muppet performers are, you know, quite good at their jobs, I just found it interesting to get to see that in this like concentrated 17 minute box.

You know, I do just want to touch on real quick.

So, so like we said, this 17 minute box really puts things in perspective.

But you know, it really is like the 1st 10 minutes of this 17 minute box, maybe more is just these Muppets Tonight sketches which are again just Howard likes food to the detriment of himself and everyone around him.

I do want to mention though, because you, you mentioned his Butler, Let's, let's just quickly mention give a shout out to Carter, who first of all, you were like, what a great puppet.

Well, you guys already know and love that puppet because that puppet is one of the members of Jerry and the Atrix from the Muppet Show.

If you watch The Muppets Take Manhattan, a great movie, she is the one who sings.

Days go passing into years to Bobby Benson's baby band.

In that part of she'll make, she'll make him happy.

So are we saying that Carter is canonically trans?

Well, I will point out, I will point out I'm just going to just going to just going to say this Muppets Haunted Mansion, there is a puppet.

That puppet becomes is used as a female puppet again and is referred to.

It's just taking me a second to get the name.

Miss Cartier.

Miss Cartier.

So I don't know, I think Carter might be a gender fluid icon.

Yeah, maybe a drag queen.

Maybe Jerry in theatrics was a drag performance all along.

Yeah, who knows?

But what I do know, and is the weirdest fact about Carter that a lot of people might know, is Carter does appear in Muppets from Space in a pretty prominent cameo in the Brick House number and in the credits.

And I remember being a kid in 1999 and obsessing over the film Muppets from Space and legitimately being confused and concerned who that Muppet was.

Because I had watched every episode of Muppets Tonight religiously as a child.

But I did not recognize this muppet.

And that's because he was also only in UK spots.

Howard Tubman, not in Muppets From Space.

Not as important as Carter.

Justice for Carter.

So you mentioned a great segue here.

You mentioned that Howard's personality begins to change because Howard's I mean, maybe personality, but like Howard's role, whatever you want to say, that's a better word for it.

Thank you begins to change because the the second-half of Howard's career takes us into takes us into it's.

Mimi.

Never.

You know, I can't say that his.

His Fraggle era, did you era did you say?

Yeah.

His, I don't know if we can say Fraggle on this show, but it takes us into it's a very merry Muppet Christmas movie where Howard becomes the Muppet Theatre's choreographer.

Now, part of why I wanted you guys on the show was because you guys are my friends.

Not anymore.

I was going to need to steal my.

It's fine.

I was on.

I'm.

I'm done.

Your show, your show's ending.

I've been on your show twice.

I don't need you guys to live my life.

Anymore, we have reached the end of The Muppet Show.

That does not mean our show is ending.

Subscribe now wherever you get your podcast.

OK, well then, then I guess I do need to maintain my friendship with you, so I can't say that I thought of you 2 not only because you're my friends, but because you guys also work in the theater.

Who told?

Now that's a euphemism if ever I've heard one.

You know, it is both a euphemism and true.

I'm speaking truly, But I'm also saying, you know, something rubbed me wrong about latter day Howard because Latter Day Howard felt like he was playing around with a lot of gay stereotypes that made me uncomfortable.

And, and I'm, I'm queer, I'm a, I'm a, a trans woman.

I'm a trans lesbian.

But obviously those stereotypes are very different than gay man and gay theater man stereotypes.

What's going on with Howard Tubman as a choreographer in Very Merry Muppet Christmas movie where we see him choreographing a can can number and then in the world where Kermit was never born as the Electric Mayhem's Riverdance choreographer?

In which, it must be noted, Animal is wearing Birkenstocks.

I just need to point that out.

So Animal apparently is also a lesbian.

I just wanna point out that Howard Tubman has transformed because he got his brow done and is looking fabulous.

Oh, you know, you are absolutely right.

He did get his brow done.

I, I think I wanna say this carefully.

There there are a, a there's a large handful of modern name up a characters where I feel like the the accent came first and the character came second, perhaps.

And then some of them evolved into wonderful, beautiful things.

And some of them are Howard Tubman.

And, you know, there's a way in which Howard sort of aristocrat voice is a stereotypical gay voice.

So I don't think it was a superly super long walk to to that reuse of the character, which again, I think somebody was probably attached to and trying to make work.

I mean, Uncle Deadly is a better example of a character who is pretty explicitly presented as gay in in in recent stuff.

And when you go back and look them up a show, you're like, Oh yeah, I totally see how that was kind of there all along, even if.

It wasn't, but also also and and and you guys can maybe speak to this better than I can, but like I personally, and again, I know that it's a it's different, you know, it's different for me, but like I don't find Oh no, I love uncle deadly I.

Don't think I love Deadly Offensive at all.

He's one of my favorites of all time.

But I just, I just mean like I see where the line was of like this was no one's intention, but it is a short walk to get there.

So first of all, hashtag not all choreographers.

This is my point to remind you that Dom Deluise is not a choreographer.

Also not gay, which was a surprise to a lot of our listeners when we discussed that on our episode about his episode with The Muppet Show.

Here's the thing about Howard.

And I think that there there are a couple of things that we need to sort of divide.

There's an effeminacy to the way that he's presented, which I think probably the first time I encountered him when I was much, much younger, I may have like sort of been taken aback by because of maybe some of my own internalized homophobia.

There's nothing wrong with the feminine gay men.

There is something wrong with a 70 year old franchise that doesn't have any explicit out characters except for those that are effeminate.

I would say that maybe, maybe that has changed since I wouldn't.

I wouldn't even say that Howard, like you said, except for those who are effeminate, there just is no explicitly out gay.

Right.

It's also characterics.

It's all.

Because Howard is not.

Yeah, and, and Howard is not.

I'm not thinking about Bunsen and Beeker, but yeah.

Yeah, but Howard is not expressly gay, right.

It's it's it's it's very obvious to to queer people that that's what they're going for.

It feels like.

But like, yeah, it it, it certainly feels different when he's one of the only ones in this sphere.

But then there's the other part of it, which is that he's kind of handsy, right?

And that's the part that's like, again, even more uncomfortable given the lack.

I mean, listen, no one should touch other people without consent.

And it's even worse when this is the only one, right?

So in this bit, he he like slaps Kerman on the tush, right?

And then later on, he kind of puts his hands on RuPaul.

It's it's a whole thing.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, but he does grab Kermit's crimp, Kermit's rear and say, oh, nice tushy Kermit in, in the in, in.

It's a very merry Muppet Christmas movie, which is again, uncomfortable.

It, it kind of gets into some of those like predatory stereotypes and, and not just of gay people, but also you sometimes see that with like, not necessarily just choreography, but like when you work with other people's physical bodies, right.

I was.

Going to say it's workplace harassment on top of everything.

Yeah, right.

And and also to have that coming from a a character who we don't really know.

Like even even with the Muppet tonight contacts, it's not like, oh, everyone's everyone remembers beloved Howard Tubman.

Like there's if it had been Uncle Deadly, if it had been the Scooter, if it had been, you know, if it'd been link, like who has never really coded his game.

But like that could be funny, right?

Like also, especially cuz like that's the whole, the whole shtick of that movie is the world has changed because Kermit's not in it.

Like what if Link were the choreographer?

Link is Link is kind of a feat, right?

Like he's he's he's what we would have called a metrosexual in the late 90s.

Like.

But let's be honest, he's more like a singer who moves.

Sure, but like there are other there are other characters who we know who could have been in that role, who would we would we would sort of accept certain behavior from and also like the joke would actually be funnier because this is how the world has changed.

Now.

Link is the choreographer and is grabbing Kermit me me.

It's still workplace for Aspen, but the joke exists and as opposed to who is this guy of of the Howard of it all.

And I do need to stress though.

The world hasn't changed.

The world where he's.

Grabbing Kermit.

Yes, that.

I just watched the clip out of context for a while.

When he's working with the Electric Mayhem and telling Kermit about how Doc Hopper has a giant fast food empire now that is the world where Kermit was never born.

And he is.

When he's choreographing the can can dancers and telling them how much they suck and and telling them how bad I I can say so that's.

One of my That's our world.

Right, I conflated the two scenes from the.

Yeah, it was that clip form.

That's our world.

But it is interesting that you're saying because not only did a majority, you know, again, more people live in the United States than Britain.

If we assume, if we assume paper, like I don't know if that speaks to viewers of Muppets Tonight, but it's a very merry Muppet Christmas movie was made for NBC Universal to air on the NBC channel.

And they we did not know who Howard Tubman was.

And not only that, even if you had seen them, The Muppets Tonight stuff never involve Howard interacting with characters other than Carter and a couple of whatnots and Scooter's uncle who's a hypnotist.

But it's it's we don't know what Kermit Kermit and Howard's relationship is, because you don't see that on Muppets Tonight.

You don't see him, you know, going like, hey, Clifford, was my ACT good?

You know, like, I don't know how he fits into things.

Right, he fits.

Into a chair, I know that.

I do think and I, I get, I'm assuming, but I, I, I have to assume this is, this is Bill Beretta wanting another shot at Howard and thinking, oh, what if he's the choreographer at the Muppet Theatre?

Let's try that.

Which ultimately didn't go anywhere because there wasn't another thing that took place in the Muppet Theatre for a decade.

But like, you know, I could see trying that, but it does seem like a weird moment in which to do it in that particular movie given the whole plot of that movie where the world splits into or the the timeline splits into.

And then we really don't see Howard for a long time until.

20 Best appearance.

His best appear?

I was going to say 2015's The Muppets.

He comes back as a talent agent for the Weirdest Muppets and mostly some weird Muppets from The Muppet Show.

Jerry and the Atrix Mahamena Bobby Benson.

Bobby Benson, The Muppaphone.

Marvin.

Oh, Marvin Suggs, thank you.

That was the other one.

I, I don't know, I didn't hate that.

I didn't either.

And this is a place where like, oh, he's gay coded, right?

He's a talent agent.

He's a particular.

He's a type who I think a lot of us recognize if we work entertainment, but there's there was nothing offensive about it.

There was nothing right it.

Was a little bit lower key than the choreographer.

Yeah, 100%.

He's not harassing anybody.

And there's he's really just a vehicle for these sort of like nostalgia jokes.

And I like that.

I thought that worked well.

And I think having in that case, having a beloved Muppet Show character or even like Muppet Show puppet who takes on multiple roles would have been weird in that instance, right?

I think having somebody who we don't know super well is actually helpful there.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Because that was one of the honestly the problems that that Muppets 15 sometimes had was it would kind of put these characters who should know each other in roles where it didn't seem like they knew each other.

I can't think of a specific example right now because I haven't rewatched it.

The The Muppet news man, like didn't work with them in in that this was a, this was, you know, again, Howard kind of feels separate and it's kind of like, oh, well, maybe he didn't appear on the Muppet Show because he was just the talent agent.

So he was helping, you know, he was helping book the acts.

Even then, who knows?

There's more to work with there, and more that didn't upset me.

I think had I remembered that appearance before watching Muppet Now, I might have had a little more context for what happens in Muppet Now.

Which?

Let's get to Muppets now.

David, I love that you don't remember the title of the show Muppets.

Now What do?

You mean I said Muppets now?

No, you said Muppet.

Every time.

Every time.

You say Muppet now.

I meant Muppets now.

We got it.

It's OK.

We use context clues, but it is funny that you're like, there's one, there's only one Muppet in every episode.

Muppet Now.

They were very short episodes, but not that short.

They were this.

I don't know the choreography is worse than this, but.

I actually don't think it is.

OK, so you think this is worse, Adam?

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

This is so.

I.

Mean also, yeah, can you guys tell the folks at.

Home what happened So also like also time passes right, like we talk about this.

I'm up atergy all the time when we're trying to like contextualize things that are you would not do or get away with on television in 2025 that you did do and get away with in television in 1978.

And and we're not saying, oh, it's OK, because it was the past where we're trying to like, you know, put context on these things because because it was the past.

So I think, you know, very Muppet Christmas was what, 9899?

2002.

OK, still almost 25 years ago.

Yeah, Muppets Now was two years ago.

Three years ago.

God, five.

What is time right?

Remember, it was it was COVID was during the pandemic.

Right, right, right.

The scooters on Zoom.

He showed us on Zoom, Yeah, with the messiest desktop.

He would never.

He would never anyway, So yeah, so.

But in 2020, what happens is Kermit is interviewing RuPaul and Howard interrupts the interview and like, OK, Muppets being obnoxious, Kermit not being able to to keep order.

That's a that's a thing.

But he is a Ru Paul super fan.

And so never has he appeared gayer.

And obviously straight people also like Ru Paul and Ru Paul is not an unproblematic figure in the real world.

But you know, I don't think anything has ever been gayer on the Muppet show ever.

Then you know this this gay coded muppet like harassing the interview because he's a RuPaul super fan and.

Because he's someone who we don't recognize.

Right, I did not remember the previous.

Right.

It feels like they just created the worst possible gay stereotype to come in and interrupt this interview.

Right.

And so to have that happen, I just, and I was like, I, I feel, I feel bad for RuPaul for like that this is the bit that they've given him to do.

And then.

He clearly, RuPaul clearly doesn't know Howard Tubman because RuPaul.

But at one point, at one point, RuPaul even goes, oh, oh, so you're, you're named Howard.

Yeah, like RuPaul should be in a sketch with Miss Piggy.

Like what are we doing?

Here and these were semi improvised right that was.

Part of that was kind of, you know, you guys just watched just the Howard Tubman part.

What keeps happening is different Muppets keep interrupting Kermit with different things like Fozzie's like, oh, I bet RuPaul would want to hear my act, you know, again, none of them are interrupting to provide RuPaul trivia the way that Howard is.

And the other Muppets I believe are Fozzie and Link, so they're.

So you know who they are?

It's not like who?

This guy?

Yeah.

Right, yeah, and again, like sort of deadly makes sense if nothing else, because he's a fashion guy, correct.

Like in in this in this iteration, right.

He's he's Piggy's dresser.

And like, yeah, I just it just, I remember it being so off putting to me and I I liked a decent amount of Muppets now and this just like this just took me out of it completely.

Don't make that face.

I know that this is a Disney adjacent podcast.

You will, you will cut this part.

I hated most of Muppets now.

But OK, great.

Actually I loved all the uncle deadly stuff and I love the pigs die so like there I can legitimately.

Say that I didn't love the pigs die.

That's interesting.

I did, but cut all of that.

I just, I don't know it, it is weird and it it feels very intentional that the only Muppets Now episode he's in is the one with RuPaul.

Exactly.

My memory was it the first?

It is the first episode of.

Is that also just it it it set a bad?

I don't know how to say it it it.

It kicked off the series on a sour note for me.

Yeah, that is absolutely fair.

And I have a lot of things that I would love to say about Muppets now, but we are going to just move into the last thing, which is Muppet Haunted Mansion.

Muppets Haunted Mansion.

Ha, not so easy is it?

I don't know, he's better and Muppets Haunted Mansion.

Well, he's a chorus member.

Yeah, he doesn't have anything to do really.

No, he he doesn't have the dance joke with Beverly.

I enjoy it.

Which was a typical he.

I guess he caters.

Yeah, yeah, He does something with.

He serves some food at the party.

Yeah, And he's like, hi, tonight's, you know, tonight's dinner will be a cream mock tortoise with a side of rigor mortis, which is fine.

I guess that's taking it all the way back to fat jokes.

He's.

He's well, it's not just because he's serving food is not making a fat joke.

You can argue the reason I'm saying that is because we had 12 straight minutes of him talking about food.

You know it if it was no.

One who watched Muppets Haunted Mansion remembers the UK spots for Muppets and that I can say that I barely.

Remember Muppets Haunted Mansion and we did an episode on it and I liked it.

I just, it's so conflicting because like Adam said, it is interesting to see Howard go from one thing to another.

It's just unfortunate that I don't like either of those things.

Here's what I'll say for Howard Tubman is that of all of the current generation of Muppet performers, Bill Beretta seems to be the most committed to developing new characters and trying to make them stick.

And he's been extremely successful with Pepe, he's been pretty successful with Bobo.

He's been moderately successful with Johnny Fiama.

He's been trying with Howard, and I can't think of anyone else from the current generation of my performers who has put that much time and effort into trying to make brand new characters stick around.

And last and you know, we only have 17 minutes of Howard.

That's not his fault.

That's the fault of the amount of material The Muppets have been able to produce in the last 25 years.

You know, if they were still doing 26 episodes a year of television shows, there might have been time for Howard to draw and change and develop into a final form that worked and was sustainable and was beloved.

I think there's still a chance for Howard to get there.

Like, I think what we saw in The Muppets ABC series shows that there is a happy medium where Howard can be a little bit of feat and gay and a little of feminine.

But not leaning into stereotypes and not, you know, only about food or being handsy or whatever.

But he needs to be in a situation where he can, you know, develop a character, not just characteristics.

And I think, you know, to his credit, I think Bill is is willing to do that if there's ever the opportunity.

Yeah, that's a great point.

And like, what would it look like if he were paired with Piggy and Link or or Deadly or Scooter or Right?

Like there's there's there's interesting combinations of sort of performers and characters where I could see something cool happening.

We just haven't gotten to see it.

That's a really positive point.

And so I'd like to end end on a positive note and as well and say at least Howard Tubman isn't Miss Poogie.

Although maybe he is.

I'm not ready for this, guys.

Where can people, where can people find you?

Where can people find you?

If you wish to be found?

You want to plug anything?

Well, so our podcast, as we've said several times, is Muppetergy.

That's Muppet URGY.

We are just wrapping up The Muppet Show and recapping every episode, but we do have plans to continue.

And also, if you haven't been listening so far, there's five seasons that you can to occupy your time with.

So we are at muppetergy.com and Muppetergy on social media and wherever you get your podcasts.

And if you want to follow us more directly, go listen to Muppetergy and find us that way.

It's a lot of this.

Yeah, it it.

Is I?

I love Muppetergy.

I'm so glad you guys could suffer with me through Howard Tubman and maybe make me realize that maybe what if Howard Tubman is the best Muppet?

The lady has potential, we'll leave it at that.

Goodnight everybody.

70 Years, 70 Muppets is a Muppet fan podcast presented by toughbigs.com, hosted by a whole myriad of people and edited by them as well.

Produced by Jared Faircloth.

The Muppet 70 logo used with Commission by The Muppet Studio, with thanks to Danny Iglesias, Frank Ross Snyder and Elise Slaughter.

Don't forget to follow toughbigs.com on all social media platforms.

You can support us by heading to patreon.com/tough Pigs or buying a T-shirt at T public.com/toughpigs.