The hello and welcome to the extra credits of Spike Lee's Highest to Lowest.

I'm Trey.

And I'm Kelsey.

Feeling a little nasally right now.

Yeah, you, you sounded like you're getting over your sickness still.

Yeah, it's OK.

Yeah, for those who don't know, didn't listen to our last episode.

We haven't been talking about any movies on the main feed since Weapons because we started our jobs.

We work in education back in the classrooms.

The kids got me sick.

I've been out of it for two weeks at least, so I'm still recovering.

So I apologize for my voice on this episode, but I'm excited talking with you about movies, coming back with a Spike Lee film, which is really cool.

This is Spike Lee's fifth collaboration with Denzel Washington, one of our favorite actors.

This is their first movie since Inside Man back in 2006, which is wild.

That's a movie that we're covering this month alongside Do the Right Thing on Patreon, which is very, very cool.

Highest to lowest is Spikes reinterpretation of Akira Kurosawa's masterpiece High and Low from the 60s.

That's a film we actually just reviewed on Patreon in preparation for this episode today.

And for a limited time right now, we're unlocking that High and Low episode for free members.

So if you head into the description of this episode, you can sign up as a free member on our Patreon and listen to that conversation.

I really recommend that episode, mostly because I think it'll provide some pretty useful context for our feelings today on Spikes Movie.

Yeah, and I think that's actually a helpful episode, though, in particular in relationship to highest to lowest, just because I know this is not a remake, right?

I think Spike is calling it like a reinterpretation, A reimagination.

I get it.

He's very.

Much out there being like, not a remake.

There's a great interview with Bill Simmons where he's like, it's not a remake.

Yeah, yeah, I get it too.

But like, there is a reason why this movie in particular is worthy of revisiting, right, so many years later.

And that's the the thematic source text and class commentary that's so interesting in the original.

And during that conversation, you know, we talked a lot about that and how it was so like smart and how we move throughout the the world of high and low.

And so I was really pumped, you know, to see like how Spike Lee was going to to do this and like reimagine this world, obviously, like with his specific style and film language.

But in that episode, we also talked about like, I don't think he could mess it up.

Like there would really only be one thing that would happen, which is like sympathizing too much with the wealthy man at the center of this and not doing a maybe a good enough job of like flipping that, as I think high and low does at the at the end scene there.

And that happens, I mean, which I was kind of surprised about.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's not something that is like a part of Inside Man or Do the Right Thing, which we'll cover more in depth like on those episodes about why, you know, those are some of his like best movies.

But I was just surprised to to see that in this movie about class in 2025.

And capitalism through a Western lens, too.

I thought there was a lot of potential here to do some interesting, like subversive twists on the kind of village versus villager ethos of those Kurosawa movies of that period.

And especially in that film that we explored on that episode, I thought it was interesting to take an American lens to that commentary, to be like, everyone in the United States wants to be a villager, but nobody wants to be a part of a village.

And really put Denzel Washington's character at the center of that moral dilemma.

And what would a wealthy kind of business tycoon person actually do in that situation in the United States?

And to see where this movie goes to.

And I don't want to hit spoilers quite yet.

I was genuinely shocked by going to the second act of this film.

So we'll get to all of that because obviously, clearly, neither of us really loved highs to lowest.

I think there's a lot of, like, stylistic flourishes that we enjoyed.

There's some good comedy, some really good Denzel, which I'll get to in a second, and some other good supporting performances.

But was really surprised by the decision to sympathize with who what you're talking about.

Let's start on a positive note.

Yeah, we're always asking why doesn't Hollywood make movies like Spike Lee's Inside Man?

We always ask it on the podcast.

And we know we really want movies like Collateral, Point Break, Man on Fire, the firm, elevated, propulsive thrillers made for and directed for adults, about characters or people on the edge.

You know what I mean?

And Nora just won best picture, which is certainly a movie about people on the edge and being pushed to the edge.

And it is a thriller and it is a dark comedy.

It's a blad of tones and genres.

And it's pretty fantastically kind of like ambitious movie following, you know, Ani on that journey.

And I'm using a movie as an example because I think we're we're entering a new or old territory, kind of revisiting in the late 2000s, early kind of early to late 90s territory of movies directed at adults about messy people.

And I love that.

And Spike Lee is returning us to that space with highest to lowest right now in theaters and in the limited theaters, but going to be on streaming on Apple Plus very soon this Friday, September 5th.

And Darren Aronofsky, who is an otor in his own right, not to the level of Spike Lee, obviously, but of the last 15 years, he's a provocateur, you know, mother.

And Black Swan is out with Austin Butler and Zoe Kravitz's Caught Stealing, which is a crime thriller, action comedy, kind of another movie that we're sort of asking for a lot like after hours adjacent meets like a Coen Brothers kind of energy or trying to be at least.

And neither of these movies really work to me.

High, still lowest and caught Stealing, but I'm happy they exist.

I'm happy that we're returning to this genre.

It makes me feel excited about finding a balance of studios not just feeding us like superhero content, which I do enjoy, but obviously we've been inundated with it.

And it's kind of diluted that genre to the point where we're all kind of sick of the stateless universe of superheroes.

And we want movies that are directed at adults that are dramatic and thrilling and entertaining and, and can be about messy, complex people.

You know, we just watched and covered Dog Day Afternoon, Sidney Lumet's masterpiece and Al Pacino's legendary performance on Patreon just the other day.

And we were talking about how like, who is the Sidney Lumet?

And we're like, we don't know who who our current Sidney Lumet is because studios aren't funding that person, right?

That person is out there wanting to make movies and they're being asked to make Captain America Six, you know what I mean?

And that kind of sucks.

And so it is.

I'm excited that highest to lowest exist if that makes sense, even though it is like A twist on IP.

Yeah, I, I like in, in terms of like the direction we're going, like you're saying, right.

We also talked about like John QA, hugely underrated movie and Denzel performance.

OK.

Shout out our John Q heads out there.

Yeah, which is a a really great commentary on like capitalism and and the healthcare system in the United States.

But yeah, like, I, I feel that we are so hungry for these movies that have something to say but also aren't, I mean, are also fun but aren't like Ambulance, you know?

And excuse me, LA Ants.

And we love Ambulance.

There's a place for the Michael Bay, Jake Gyllenhaal, kind of like dog whistle movies.

Like there's a place for those films.

And I'm happy to have them when you want them.

But it is nice to have movies that are more elevated, genre pulpy films that are exciting, entertaining and also can be, like, smart.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah, I think that highest to lowest is an interesting example of like a really interesting like source text of having something to say and then at the last like kind of stretch of this takes a a weird turn.

And yeah, I mean, I caught stealing.

Doesn't really have much to say, but.

It tries to have like an emotionally deep character arc, Frost and Butler, but he's doing a lot of that work.

It's always Zoe Kravitz, but yeah, it's more of an action comedy route.

I don't know.

It's not a very good movie.

Heist to lowest is better than caught stealing in my opinion.

I just wanted to bring up the genre the the kind of movies made for and package for adults that are kind of messy because I think we are entering into a new space and Spike Lee kind of being on the forefront is very exciting to me, even if I don't love this movie.

It's been reported that Timothy Chalamet is going to do a bank heist movie with James Mangold next year, which is insane.

Very excited for that.

Marty Supreme feels like a return to Catch Me If You Can era.

Like kind of.

Spielberg, which is making phone calls from the hotel room.

Yeah.

To your girlfriend Gwyneth Paltrow and Ridley Scott apparently is tackling a speed Keanu Reeves Sandra Bullock style thriller called Bomb OK Ridley, which I'm hyped for.

Austin Butler and Jeremy Allen White are coming together to play a kind of Heat.

Yeah, I was going to say character.

Dynamic of a, of a crime guy being chased down by a detective I don't know who's who so that's all very exciting I, I, I think we can be only.

People, they're like the Al Pacino De Niro.

That's interesting.

So they're mid budget thrillers making a comeback.

That's all I wanted to say.

I think that's very, very cool and I think people should be excited.

About that and I think, you know, it's actually a really interesting example to to view something like John Wick Wick, which I love as like an in between territory of this of going from the superhero movies into action because it still feels like John Wick is also superhero adjacent.

Yeah, it feels like action movies and comedy movies were literally like Co opted by the superhero industry, like Die Hard or, I don't know, The Hangover turned into like Iron Man.

Do you know what I mean?

It is very confusing, but it does feel like we have balance in the world.

Everything is hopefully becoming right as we talk about this Apple TV Plus movie.

So some other things that really work in this movie.

Obviously Denzel Washington, as always, very magnetic.

Yeah.

And I'm going to try to, you know, Denzel Washington recently said in an interview, I think it was recently, that his name is actually Denzel Washington.

And he kind of just let tabloids and people like it at Academy Awards words ceremony say his name is Denzel and he just ran with it.

So I'm going to go back and forth between Denzel and Denzel and I.

Apologize in the hopes to say.

To recorrect it, Yeah, because I even hear Spike Lee call him Denzel.

But like, he did an interview with Bill Simmons on The Ringer, which is an incredible interview.

I recommend people check it out.

And he's talking about him as Denzel and then he'll talk about him as Denzel.

And I'm like, I'm probably going to find myself doing that today.

I'm just putting that out there because I want to get his name right.

He carries this movie, obviously, but Jeffrey Wright is also pretty good in this.

A$AP Rocky gets a couple surprising great performance and stylistically it's Spike Lee and he's got his DP Matthew Libertique and their cinematography is pretty awesome, especially in the way this movie opens in the.

I love the opening here.

The shots at the cityscape.

I was so excited when we opened the movie this way.

We have like, oh, what a beautiful morning.

You know, I'm not always on board with the classical music in Spike Lee movies.

I think it works in certain movies, like like he got game, like.

I think that's an interesting use of.

Like.

Different tones, right happening.

And then also I think in Do the Right Thing, he has some classical.

It's a little bit like more understated in those scenes.

Yeah, I think people think Public Enemy when they think do the right thing, but there's a lot of, like, dialogue sequences, whether it be between Pinot and his dad and the pizzeria or Spike and Pinot to the side about like how Pinot is being a racist and they're like playing.

There's like this subtle classical music or jazz music playing underneath the dialogue that in highest to lowest feels a little bit more abrasive and kind of in your face.

I think also there's a lot of like pacing things that come with that.

And also I think interesting conflicts between Jeffrey Wright's character and Denzel's character that feel off because I start to sense where it's going thematically that I'm like, wait, now the classical music feels strange because we're on the side of like this wealthy person more so.

And it's not really looking at the contradiction.

I I thought it was going to, but then I was like, oh wait, are we not?

Yeah, I think.

Spike has a point of view, and he's a moralistic filmmaker, for better and for worse.

And in this.

And so it was like Martin Scorsese, his peer, They're both like that.

Yeah.

And so he certainly has a lot of opinions about what he wants out of, like, successful people in capitalism today and the kind of like, class that they represent.

Yeah.

So there's a lot to say.

We'll.

Talk more about that because also, like I understand how Spike Lee is coming at like Denzel's character with the idea of like a responsibility lens.

But that is I think like, you know, obviously I I I just don't think that is like a interesting take completely when you have a movie about class to this level and it's the main commentary of your movie.

But anyway, yeah, yeah.

So we'll talk about that.

But the opening here like gave me, you know, like such high hopes for this because we have oh, what a beautiful morning playing.

It's like this really romanticized, beautiful opening, but yet at the kind of like bottom of the the image or like the foundation of this image is like the high rise, right?

And the rest of the the city, which is such at the core of like high and low right of the, the person who we, you know, meet at the end, who isn't like the main character of the movie, have this monologue in high and low about like what the, the physical, you know, like difference of being like high up right in this high rise verse, like low and forgotten, like, you know, just in terms of like the actual geography of where people are living or the physical locations.

The architecture representing the class Immobility.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And like I so I was pumped at the at the beginning for this because like I was like, oh, this is interesting.

I love how it's bright and and I liked the idea of that kind of like hiding something.

Immediately I thought of, you know, high and low, obviously, but bondage and host parasite too, which is also inspired by high and low and using architecture and geography to represent wealth inequality and class immobility.

And how that can lead to like make to make people of an underclass or a forgotten class, a working class to make radical decisions to protect oneself, to survive, or in some cases just to act out or lash out against those who have like consolidated power and wealth and resources.

So lots to say about that.

The production design in this movie, the cinematography to the production design in this movie is really solid.

Washingtons home, I think he plays a character named King, is a David King who basically is a massive high rise home and he lives in what feels like a museum.

It's sort of like showcase of black success.

An artist all around him, He's like speaking to them as if they are these mythic figures and asking them for advice throughout the movie as he goes through his moral dilemma that we'll get into.

And Spike really leans into that kind of iconographic feel of these legendary black artists surrounding Washington's character and what he feels.

Going back to your point, his responsibility is to, to help this missing child or kidnapped child.

And Spike makes some really interesting choices with the editor to add these symbols in to the, the kind of pans and the wipes of, of the edits.

And it gives the film a really kind of rhythmic feel.

And I think the film language, the imagery, the, the texture of the, of the production design and also the architecture that you're talking about are really powerful because they do speak to the class commentary that you really want out of the movie that you can feel the movie in the screenplay in particular sort of wrestling with.

And we'll come back to that screenplay because ultimately, I think the first hour, basically first hour and a half of this movie, if we're going to negatives now, is pretty weightless.

Like it feels kind of stateless even when the moral dilemma is revealed.

And we're going to learn more into spoilers now.

So spoiler warning if you have not seen the movie, but the first hour and a half to this film sort of has a streaming movie flatness to me, which I thought was so disappointing.

And it's such a let down after that great opening of that, that shot of New York City in Brooklyn.

And I've seen some critics, you know, forgive that the first hour is kind of boring.

And a lot of critics have projected on a meta commentary onto the film as they're as they're forgiving that first hour.

And they're saying that, you know, Spike is making a movie sort of about himself.

And what he feels is his own responsibility is this legendary black filmmaker in an industry that does not give people of color many resources to make movies or studio capital to make movies.

And I've seen, you know, positive reviews of high Solo saying that Spike is critiquing a a streaming era of art of soulless AI.

But that can all be true.

But the first 45 minutes are still particularly really tough.

The dramatic dialogue feels really stilted to me.

The the kind of jazzy classical background music just doesn't work, as you said we talked about.

But it kind of feels distracting.

The moral dilemma that Washington's character faces with with Jeffrey Wright's character son being actually the child that is kidnapped, the teenager that's kidnapped and whether or not he should pay that back and sacrifice him wanting to own back his his, you know, he wants to buy back his business that he's worked in for for so long.

That's kind of his character journey of being like, I'm not going to be a kind of tech musical mogul of this capitalist society.

I'm just going to be like a small business capitalist.

That's like his character journey.

I felt like there could have been more interesting shifts made in the screenplay that just weren't made.

And that's not me saying I don't like the movie that I'm watching.

I wish it was a different movie.

I just think the choices that were made were really far less interesting than what the potential was on screen.

So yeah, I think that first hour is just really, really tough to get through, especially because that that dilemma isn't as deepened as I thought it could have been.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that there's two issues kind of like going on.

One is the pacing in this first half and kind of really hanging out in the dramatic scenes of conversations.

But you know, the the dilemma is actually, I feel like being made to be more than it is in terms of like cancel culture speeches or like, or some scenes with Jeffrey Wright's character where, you know, obviously, like, it is an interesting dilemma.

Like would most people pay, you know, like their life savings just in general, even if they aren't a millionaire to save someone else's child?

Probably not.

You know, like that is the exactly that's like the bleak reality and interesting dilemma of the movie and of itself and in terms of like the commentary on money and capitalism.

Especially in the United States, Yeah, which is more of what the direction I thought they're going to go in.

Yeah, so, but in terms of like the dilemma, the the dramatic scenes actually don't hit as hard because it feels like in retrospect, besides the pacing that we that you kind of touched on that we're actually following a story about Denzel's character trying to like figure out how to use his capital and make things that matter.

And that's interesting, I guess.

But and it's also layered obviously, like in terms of a movie that is about both race and class in the United States capitalism.

But ultimately this is like a movie that or or story that is placed within a larger, I think.

A larger comparison, right?

Story about class in general.

And so when Denzel's character starts becoming like moralistic towards A$AP Rocky character right at the end when they like finally meet face to face, which I'm I'm sure you know, we'll talk about in a minute.

Yeah.

But he starts like using like kind of language around like if you you worked hard essentially, right, Like myth of meritocracy rhetoric.

And that is when it becomes like a movie that is actually really strange to be a story about Denzel's character making art that is meaningful with his capital because of the, the comparison to A$AP Rocky character.

And then also retrospectively to then Jeffrey Wright's character, where Jeffrey Wright is like this character who is so thankful that Denzel's character like decided to spend money to to do this.

And like, obviously he knows because he's close to him, like how much basically that money means.

But also then it becomes a very strange, like class relationship where Oh yeah, very weird.

And, and so, and, and then, you know, Denzel's character is like kind of like heroic at the end, which I, I think you could still have a movie.

Again, it's not like here's the movie I wanted to see.

No, like I think I'm just like saying here's actually, you know, totally fair, like balanced critique of the movie that I actually saw, which is that I don't know that you in a class in a movie about class want to make like someone who is the millionaire, you know the.

Sympathetic capitalist.

Yeah, yeah.

Like the kind of like heroic character who is telling everyone like, here's how you can make it to be like me.

Do you think it's because Spike Lee or the screenwriter for that matter, I guess, or other audiences in general?

And I think this, I've seen some of this online as people have been rewatching or watching for the first time.

High and low interpret high and low to be about a sympathetic millionaire in post war Japan in the 1960s who is kind of recognized.

Oh, you're saying?

Do people misread the original sources?

Did they misunderstand the source of material?

Because I think the biggest issue with highest to lowest for me is the screenplay.

It's not like I can't even tell what's Spike Lee's vision honestly verse I see his vision aesthetically, I see the vision stylistically.

I'm not sure thematically because I've seen him do this, these ideas better in other movies.

So I'm kind of confused while watching the whole film in terms of his whole career when we're taking like a meta commentary lens to it.

Totally thought at the end it was going to like flip or something me.

Too right.

Totally.

And I think it's more of the screenplay and I'm not really too familiar with the screenwriter, but I think it's a pretty rough screenplay in particular in its structure.

If you compare to the original high and low to give you insight into what makes the original so effective.

Not comparing these two movies and, and as far as their legacies, but in terms of what makes the original and it's commentary so effective is that you know the mate.

It makes it clear what the major mistake of this new movie is really clear, which is that the this reinterpretation of high and low keeps us basically in one perspective the entire movie.

And that's through the king character.

That's Washington's character in that perspective shift to only a singular perspective of going through the millionaire and how he views the world and what he is going through and how he views his relationship to Jeffrey Wright's character.

And and later ASAP's character becomes critical to the movie, not really working cinematically or thematically or emotionally because Kurosawa's high and low builds tension by shifting perspectives.

You start the movie by being in the perspective of the wealthy executives to his like group of, you know, friends, quote UN quote, but people who become kind of his enemies by the end of the movie, taking his job from him.

And then it shifts perspective to all of the cops in a main investigator to literally like, literally like quite literally all of the cops.

Are just major Japanese city.

Drop everything that they're doing to then protect the wealth of this shoe executive to the mass media coming out in support of this, you know, shoe executive.

To then the perspective shifting once again in the third act to being in the lens of this kind of post war Japanese underclass where we explore poverty and we're stuck in communities without AC in a crowded urban decay who have been crushed by poverty and crushed by addiction.

We're literally going through like alleyways with cops, going through people who are who are passed out and having to self medicate because of like they're not being any resources or opportunities.

And they're stuck beneath what looks like beneath the city.

Kind of speaking to the metaphors of Kurosawa's like, brilliant, you know, project and screenplay here.

And that's smartly and subtly humanizes that that invisible class of people that, you know, Bongi and Ho later does a parasite.

And the highest to lowest screenplay narrows all of those PO VS almost entirely to Denzel's David King's character, the millionaire.

That's true.

I shouldn't realize that.

Yeah.

And it changes the entire point of the the original film and it makes me think that there's just a misunderstanding of of maybe that original movie.

Yeah.

Well, I think the the interesting thing about like high and low and even highest to lowest is it's supposed to be kind of like this metaphor, right?

Of quite literally high and low of like hierarchy, right, class hierarchy.

And so when you like it would be, you know, imagine if we saw him in the first movie because, you know, there are similar scenes taking place and it's still like on the same like thematic thread almost.

But imagine we had the millionaire or like the executive telling the person who's in poverty and is saying, you know, and this isn't high and low and a Kurosawa's movie, but this idea of like him saying like This is why I did it.

I basically like have nothing to live for.

And I look up at your high rise and like I it's not like a jealousy that he's pointing out, right?

Like that's not the point of the of the movie.

And it's not like, oh, I did it for nothing on this.

Like, you know, serial killer esque, you know, character that maybe it's like in a true crime movie or something that people are fascinated with, But it's more so this idea that like my, the the place that I live is like so different from yours.

It's freezing in the winter, it's burning in the summer, like I'm feeling the elements of the world and up there like you have AC like that's like the whole kind of thing.

And imagine, you know, the the character in high and low came back at him and was like, well, you know, have you considered like getting a job?

The millionaire, Yeah.

And then also, you know, like, aren't there other ways that you could like, no, the the the movie is a metaphor.

So like, I think I don't want people to take away that, you know, we there can't be a movie about Denzel's character, you know, like a kind of grappling with or thinking about like what his place might mean as this like wealthy person that that that is also a part of the original source text.

But the difference is, is that he's not, you know, the the wealthy character is not made to be this like hero because he's a symbol.

He's not, you know, necessarily a character.

He's a symbol in high and low for wealth.

Right.

That's what's wild to me because curious always high and low is crafted to expose the rich right to expose the institutions from media to law enforcement to the judicial system, helping protect that class of status of people about how they how they're literally built through like blueprints of how to drop everything and not even help people who are like there's a woman in the original high and low who's dying because she's just been like shot with drugs.

And the cop like goes past her immediately to chase after the criminal who had stolen the kidnapper, had stolen the money of this this millionaire just to kind of get that symbolism across more directly, even though I don't think.

It's like whose lives matter?

Right, exactly and how how the class changes our understanding?

Whose justice we're?

Interested in and whose are not and you know that movie reveals an exploitation and alienation of an underclass where pressure to act in radical ways.

It's not forgiving of like the kidnappers.

Importantly, it's not forgiving of the the ransom and all of that craziness that unfolds in that original movie and in this movie.

But the original movie, that kidnapper is making a morally corrupt decision.

But the movie is also unapologetically anti capitalist versus this highest to lowest remake is not anti capitalist at all.

It's really just like being like there are more respectable forms of capitalism.

And that's what makes me kind of confused about this film because, you know, David King at the end of this movie and we can get into specifics and I want to do a plot breakdown in a second, but he turns to making his own kind of like small business at the end of the movie.

He moves away from wanting to buy back this massive kind of industry and doesn't want to be this tycoon and doesn't want to be quote UN quote King anymore.

And but and he and he tries to like hire this woman who is like 600 Instagram followers because now he's like a benevolent guy.

And it just feels like after that, you know, huge conversation with him in ASAP, which is a really impressively technically well made sequence where like the mirror the.

Performances are so great, so it's captivating.

We'll talk about the same.

It's so judgmental of ASAP's character.

It's so, it's so reductive of quote UN quote, the young felons of the world.

It turns ASAP's character or what he's supposed to represent in our modern world into a caricature essentially.

Or I thought at least, which was really surprising because this is it's Spike Lee.

It's a Spike Lee movie, right?

And so that's not something I've ever seen from him, I don't think.

And so the fact that that character is kind of like a grifter is being criticized as somebody who didn't didn't really work to become successful.

It's just very strange to me.

And I think, you know, there are critics who love highest to lowest who are saying a lot of great things about it.

Like, I think you could pull from this movie that it is about what is the what is the responsibility of black capitalism and the question of whether marginalized groups who gain wealth owe something to those left behind.

I think that's an interesting commentary to project onto this movie.

I think it exists within this film.

And I think Spike, I think people are projecting a lot onto Spike here.

I think they're saying that Spike is interrogating his own role in that debate through David King as sort of like an avatar for himself, if that makes sense, as this kind of legendary filmmaker in Hollywood and, you know, his own relationship to his followers or admirers of his legacy he's built.

But then Spike also sneaks in all these other ideas of being critical of like, AI being soulless, which, yeah, cosigned, but then also being sort of skeptical of cancel culture.

And I'm like, what?

And then looking at like meritocracy maybe being real.

And I'm like, huh.

And then I I just think it's doing too much and it can't find a coherent through line going to what you're saying, where it becomes about.

It becomes about a lot of different ideas and then ultimately movie that feels flat for me at the end because it kind of vilified characters who are coming from less means.

Yeah, which I found just shocking.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, to be clear to, I don't think either of us are saying that Denzel's character, like, should be looked at or treated like within the film or the audience as like having the the same commentary or criticism as like a white wealthy man, If, if that makes sense, Right.

Like, but at the same time, like, I think there's yeah, there there's a lot of like weird things where it feels like someone put in a lot of their own takes about like how the youth just expects fame and they think they deserve like, money, right?

Like those kind of like strange things about deserving, right, fame or wealth that are then channeled through Denzel's character to A$AP Rocky, like, and the idea that he does again, like we're playing in the world we're playing in, right?

This, this whole like landscape of capitalism, again, it's this whole like metaphor.

So that's like the problem.

Wasn't there a moment where like young felon is shown walking into like the court and he and they're like screaming young felon and he's like saying he made it or something like that, Like he's become a celebrity or he's like, no, now wasn't there a moment like that?

I know it just felt really reductive and overly simplified.

And it really felt like, and I mean this from somebody who was a a massive fan of Spike Lee, and I don't not mean this in any negative way.

And it's also hard to like have this conversation as like 2 white podcasters being like, here's this legendary black artist who also made something that feels kind of problematic.

But it does feel like Spike feels kind of like economically distanced from reality in this movie.

Like I and again, I don't know if it's the screenplay or his vision thematically, but he feels kind of like like he lost a little bit of the sauce of like what people are going through today, if that makes sense.

It feels like somebody who is sort of like rich and powerful made a movie about class and that's why it feels a little bit complicated.

And I mean that from like a really well intended place.

And I guess I'm open for a conversation on that one.

So people let us know what you think about that in a constructive way or like constructive feedback or productive feedback rather.

But I'm trying to have constructive criticism here because it's kind of this is a tough movie to discuss because so many critics are just like, this is like one of the great remakes.

They're literally saying that.

I've read many reviews that have said that and listen to podcast about this and are saying that this is like one of the great Spike Lee movies.

And I just, I think people are projecting so much of their relationship of Spike Lee onto their relationship with this film.

I don't be reductive of people's.

Experiences.

But it does feel like that.

I also think that like maybe like you're saying, people read the original text differently.

I think it's so I usually like, I'm not as direct as to say like they are misreading it.

But I do think that people are misreading the original text if they're saying like at the end, you know, the person finds out that the kidnapper is just like in insane or there's no reason it's the Joker commentary.

That's not what the movie's about.

And so like, if that's how you see it, then maybe we just like disagree and are not honestly, I mean this this now sounds like reductive, but like maybe don't see the world the same way or have the same like lens towards class like.

Yeah, we could take that personal view on it, but you could also just go back and listen to Kurosawa, who like had to come out and he was criticized for being sympathetic at all to the ransomer back in in post war, kind of like Japan in the 1960s.

And had to like take that critical backlash and be like, well, I wasn't trying to be forgiving of this person.

But originally he was a little bit more quote UN quote cartoonishly insane.

And we were like, we want to give him something that feels more like justifies that.

This is such a large kind of commentary about like this structural classism that is so clear in the architecture of like how major cities are built.

And he's also making a larger commentary about globalization and capitalism now invading and infesting countries around the world and, like, pressuring them to to, you know, sell products with one another and become basically what America had already become.

And so he was making all these larger commentaries, but he was really cautious about being too sympathetic to that figure.

So it's kind of ironic if you might misread it and then be OK with his highest to lowest interpretation because Kurosawa himself was like hoping people would not miss out the point on the movie, which is that this guy would have never kidnapped that person if equality, if economic equality was more in the forefront of like Japan's goals at that time, that place in time.

So.

Yeah.

I mean, it's just though it's weird because of what we were talking about, like with Inside Man, you know, being one of the great heist movies and that I was talking about this too on Dog Day Afternoon and kind.

Of radical and it's class commentary too.

Yeah, that like we don't really, you know, and that's why I'm excited for this genre to come back like we were talking about at the beginning, because I think like bank robbery movies or like heist movies in general lend themselves to this one's a little bit more complicated.

But in terms of like bank robbery movies, they lend themselves to this idea of like critiquing institutions through the vehicle of like an action movie.

And that's interesting always to me.

But Inside Man in particular like takes that a step further right where we have I won't spoil it for anyone who like hasn't seen it, although I'm assuming if you're listening to podcast, probably have that's fine.

You listen to our episode where we talk about it more.

But like Clive Owens character, right?

Robbing the bank for a very specific reason, I guess I'll just say.

Oh, I'll step on it.

Spike Lee's straight up like, yeah, the guy who owns a bank is a Nazi like, and that's a big deal.

Like he's pushing against stereotypes of like, quote, UN quote Jews owning banks.

And like him speaking and giving like a platform to Jewish communities who who have been discriminated against in America and being like, actually the guy who's a fucking Nazi owns wealth and power in New York City.

Like that's powerful.

Like, that's a powerful.

And he's being protected because of his wealth and he's able to, like, hide that because of his wealth.

Yeah, OK, so I I was just saying that just in case people hadn't seen it, but.

I'm fine, it come from me.

In the DNS it's like how many years later?

Literally 20 years.

Old probably seen it and that's OK because they tell you kind of like, well, I guess they don't tell you early on, but that's.

A spoiler it.

Doesn't matter, but anyway so like.

There's a big there is a big spoiler.

To have one of the best like heist movies made by Spike Lee there and to also, you know, have like Spike Lee's long standing history, like with his films looking at racism really directly and having this like observant, you know, quality to a lot of his movies where it feels like he is showing, you know, the audience like here is what's happening.

You know, it's not like a moral film in terms of how we have movies about racism.

And obviously, like, you know, we're in the United States and like Hollywood exists and there's like all these benevolent white characters that like solve racism and like, you know, the two hours that for the runtime of the movie.

But I feel, you know, I think that he is like, yeah, it's actually not like complicated here is like I'm putting racism in front of you to these like white audiences who are coming to see the movie.

And so when you like are going to see a movie from a a film maker like Spike Lee, it is just jarring to see then how like he has portrayed class before in terms of looking at like a a character, you know, I'm I'm just thinking of do it, do the right thing right now just because we're about to do it on Patreon.

But like this idea of like a white character saying myth of meritocracy rhetoric, it's really strange to see it coming out of like Denzel's, you know, character in a movie that is like explicitly about.

Clocks.

Yeah.

It made me think a lot about Clockers, which is an underrated Spike Lee movie, and how there is a little bit of a pattern in how Spike Lee frames class and culture.

Like some parts of Black life in his movies feels really deeply humanized.

That is not usually platformed in mass media, especially in movies.

And sometimes he can reduce certain walks of black life for, quote, UN quote, what's wrong in the community.

He does this inside man with the video game, with the little boys playing the video game.

And it's kind of a moralistic speechifying going on where Clive Owens, like, I need to talk to your dad about this.

You shouldn't be playing this.

And it's like, I can understand what the intention is there, but it also feels like very judgmental of a specific walk of life that might come from a specific background, if that makes sense.

And in Clockers, that's a very like empathetic film.

But there is some somewhat of that movie and some parts of of Spike's film.

Filmography that is like here's St.

crime, here's drugs, even hip hop culture.

And I think he laces all those things together with young felon in this movie in high to lowest and he flattens those things.

And then certain traditions like jazz or religion or classical culture are shown with a lot more warmth that I think there hasn't really been.

I haven't read 1.

Actually I read 1 recently.

Bell hooks had a really good criticism of Spike Lee back in the 90s of Do the Right Thing.

That was about this very idea and about how Spike doesn't get enough Flack from movie critics who feel kind of like afraid to talk about them more kind of like classic or sorry classist issue in some of his work that I think is real, that I think exists, while he also has really smart commentaries like the one we just addressed with with Inside Man.

So that's kind of like a contradiction in his work.

And some of the great film makers of his peers also have those contradictions.

Martin.

Scorsese I was going to say I was talking a lot about that with Martin Scorsese and yeah, I mean, I think I said I'm kind of going to go back on like what I said a little bit in terms of like moralistic.

I there are sometimes like in both Spike Lee movies and Martin Scorsese movies, there are like characters who are saying like, here's the theme of the movie to another character.

And that sometimes does feel like moral point of view, like inserted into movie.

And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

And for both film makers, case, and I'm saying, you know these two film makers 'cause they're like super like famous and successful tours that I like watching their movies, but you know, 2.

Of the most legendary New York City film makers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think we were just watching like Sidney Lumet's movies though, too.

And those tend to be, and that's so it's just in my mind, but those tend to be like more about institutions and characters relationships, you know, and, and character studies, but really in relationship to like institutional inequality and so.

Or state violence.

Yeah.

And and so that's like also part of it.

I don't know, it's it's complicated, right?

But this movie is just, I think like a an interesting piece of Spike Lee's filmography, not one that I love.

We we can talk a little bit about like the things that I do love in terms of like how he, yeah, like incorporates the the parade, right.

Yeah.

Let's talk about the last 30 minutes, OK?

At least Like cuz the last 30-40 minutes, the movie really moves.

It turns into the thriller that you were kind of promised in the trailer.

And I wasn't angry with the melodrama in the first hour.

I just didn't find it all that interesting.

Exactly.

There is one scene between Denzel, his character, and his son where they have a very really interesting conversation about masculinity and power that I found to be really compelling.

That's where I think Spike Lee really sings.

When he sits on those moments, they feel like you're watching live theater, you know?

And he's really great at that.

He's really good at staging in that way.

But in the last 30 minutes, there's a Puerto Rican parade sequence that you're referring to that is like one of the most electric moments of the year.

Did I, I don't know if I read this somewhere or if I heard like Spike Lee talk about it, but wasn't that like almost a a wonder or they did it?

They did it a couple times like not a wonder but like they, they did it from like start to finish in terms of like doing the actual like song and I guess like you know the band playing the song maybe like 4 times or something and used one of those.

Possibly.

It felt like that.

It felt like it was like legitimately some of the best action that Spike Lee's directed in his entire career.

So it felt very real.

So that was a great action sequence.

There are also some like all caps choices in the last 20 minutes where we get a really risky semi surreal rap battle with Washington and ASAP, which is kind of insane and ASAP was talking about in a great interview between him, Spike, and Denzel Washington.

I think for GQ, I forget who it was, it was like 30 minutes and Washington is kind of sitting there chilling.

He's like on his phone half the time.

But ASAP is just one of the most charismatic people I've heard in pop culture across all mediums, where he is just like explaining the significance of Washington to him and his life and how his mom always compared him to Denzel Washington and how he met Washington at his house because he's friends with John David Washington and Spike Lee's listening.

He's like listening like how I'm listening to it.

He's like, really invest in the story.

And Washington.

Denzel was like, we met before.

I don't even like he's so nonchalant about just being this like very powerful figure in in in culture in general, but especially obviously like in the black community.

And in ASAP was talking about how like Washington was rap battling him on that day.

And a lot of that wasn't scripted.

And Spike was saying how that reminded him when Denzel went against Ray Allen and he got gaming and scored a few points on it.

And Ray Allen was like, what the fuck, Spike?

Like, I'm going to have to actually play this guy.

So that was pretty cool.

It was a little like cheesy, but it was cool to see the rap battle.

We also get really fun music video flourishes with Spike's famous the double Dolly shot of ASAP in a music video.

There are some fun comedy gags throughout the movie.

There's some really great Celtics jokes, which is like a Spike isn't at this point somebody literally looking into the camera being like fuck you Celtics, which is awesome, or fuck you Boston.

There were some jokes about State Farm, I guess not about State Farm, but from the State Farm guy, and I want to be respectful to him.

At least let me get his name.

Here, Mayhem himself.

Dean Winters as a detective Higgins who plays a cop with prejudice who is, I guess, explicitly, you know, prejudice and racist.

But he is the guy from the State Farm commercials.

Yes, Yeah.

And I think they make 3 jokes about state.

Farm in this maybe at least twice.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We looked at each other and we were like, is this something that like Apple insisted on?

Is this like an ad?

Yeah.

Is this an ad for State Farm?

Was this like a behind the scenes deal of having this guy in here?

And I mean, it still is possible.

I don't know, definitely like all speculation, but I, I did hear Spike Lee in like 1 interview say something like, if you're distracted by him, a State Farm like, you know, the audience then is like the problem cuz he's a great actor.

And I actually disagree.

I think he's not a good actor and that's not totally his fault.

He is a interesting.

He's broken through the culture of having this like dry bit of being mayhem in State Farm advertising.

Like, you know, they hit the jackpot in terms of like having some sort of I iconic image and person or character, right?

Be it's like a Jingle essentially, except it's a person.

And so one like, I just don't think he's strong.

And so then like when he his being either like classist or racist, like towards Jeffrey Wright's character, it comes off as like like a bit or something because of how he delivers it and the audience's relationship to him.

And also he's not just like as a dramatic actor, not very strong.

And so it actually like really weakened a lot of the moments where we're supposed to see a contradiction, like, for example, you know, where we have Denzel's like son who it were like in the kitchen.

And we are seeing the cops who are detectives, like ask, you know, like, do you remember anything about your friend that went missing who got kidnapped?

And it's after like 5 minutes and like, oh, he's tired.

Like let him take a break.

And in those moments #1 like in High low, in the first one, the kids are really little.

And I thought it was interesting to like make the kids, teenagers here, especially around the commentary of like treating black kids, right, as if they're adults, right?

And media.

And and so like, I think that was like an interesting commentary.

That's a good point.

But at the same time, in that specific scene, I was like, well, he didn't go through like anything super traumatic besides his like best friend missing.

Like he could stick around for maybe a couple more minutes just to have a lead on any kind of clues of where the kidnapper like could have taken him or anything he remembers because like it.

So that felt like very strange because I was like, wait, but I think he is old enough in in this moment just to talk about because like he he literally said he like left to go, I think to another place to get food and something like that come back right.

But he like, I mean, obviously it's a very stressful day, but the but the, the time, the the clock is ticking in terms of like, you know, we know everyone knows this from true crime movies that like the first 48 hours are critical like so anyway, but then when we have like mayhem in those scenes, right, they take away the emotional stakes is my larger point.

Yes, no, I I agree.

I think I wanted more of ultimately, I wanted more of David's, you know, David King's characters is like kind of inner war.

You know, we see Washington shadowboxing alone.

We see him, you know, summoning the ghost of James Brown or Jimi Hendrix or Aretha Franklin and these kind of surreal Spike flourishes.

It it's really theatrical, but it works.

And I just wish we could have seen like David really feel the weight of wanting to protect his empire.

Instead, it's just kind of confusing throughout the movie about what he's really trying to protect.

Is he trying to protect his image?

Is he trying to protect his image financial or economically, or his image to his own son or his his wife, his, you know, image to his friend?

Or is he trying to protect, like does he feel the responsibility of actually making it out and becoming this like very powerful tycoon out of the black community?

Does he feel a responsibility to help in any way possible?

It's never really clear.

And I just think the screenplay really suffers and doesn't do Washington's character much justice.

So Denzel has to do so much the legwork.

So by the end of the movie, when him and Jeffrey Wright are taking matters into their own hands and they're driving on their way to like, young Felons recording studio, it's fun and exciting, but it also feels again, sort of weightless, you know, because even Jeffrey Wright, who's giving a pretty good performance in this movie, it's sort of feeling like he's playing the guy that he is spoofing in American fiction.

It isn't not a caricatury character ultimately, because the writing's pretty poor.

Like, yes, he's an ex-con.

Yes, he it seems to be a devout Muslim and like those are ways to characterize someone, but he's not deepened in any meaningful way.

And he's like, there are moments where he feels maybe like resentful or like maybe more fully developed as a character towards, you know, Denzel's like character, but mostly like he is this like grateful worker of Denzel so.

Yeah, it feels uncomfortable.

It feels weird.

And I think it's it's strange.

It's why it's been so strange to read criticism on this movie because like, I'm all for projecting a meta commentary on this film being like, let's all go to the Spike Lee movie.

We just said this with other films too, like Materialist being fans of Celine Song or Eddington with Ari Astor or Ryan Coogler with Sinners movies that I think are all really admirable movies and execute at different levels.

And I think Sinners being the most successful out of those three.

But ultimately all those movies have like issues.

But there's so much, there's so much emphasis right now in the critical world to be very binary in our reception to either be like, this is overwhelmingly amazing and we all need to go see it, or this just doesn't work at all.

And I'm not trying to sound like we can't just have a conversation anymore, but it does sort of feel like that with this movie in particular in our space.

So it kind of feels like that.

I feel bad throughout this episode and I felt bad writing a review for this movie weeks ago because I feel like if it looks as if we're punching down when the reality I'm just we're trying to be like constructive in our criticism, which is what we keep.

Saying, I think, I mean, yeah, we've done that with all basically every movie this year.

Like a lot of movies have been complicated about class like materialists.

Materials is a good comp for this.

Movie it is actually yeah so and and Eddington in in different ways that were more like pandemic situated more Internet situated.

But yeah, like, I think that we've had like similar interestingly issues with movies that have popped up this year because a lot of movies which we also asked for a lot like are kind of dealing with contemporary issues, but at the same time, like don't feel, I guess like historically maybe completely thought out from the screen writing perspective.

Yes, agreed.

Anything else you want to add about the the plot of the movie?

We didn't really talk about the wife, but I saw some TikTok reviews from regular people who were like, she's the worst performance in the movie.

And I thought that was rude.

She didn't really get a lot to do.

She kind of was.

There is one tough moment where Washington, his character, finds out that his son's been kidnapped or seemingly kidnapped and he's outside and we can't hear young felon on the phone.

And it's kind of a medium shot.

And he comes in the house and we're kind of like David Fincher panning through the home and the wife finds out.

And she doesn't have like the reaction you'd want.

But it felt more like a director issue, like a the wrong cut to use the wrong scene to use.

It felt like a just a badly sequel, like kind of staged scene.

I I think so too, yeah.

It was like a it was a weird reaction, I guess.

Yeah, like I, I felt that too, of like, I didn't know if she would like would be more upset, but also she's in shock like, so that makes sense.

But the way, yes, I think the way that it was staged was like strange and didn't serve her performance in that that moment.

I want to note something because I like ASAP, you know, as an artist.

I I think I like him more as like just kind of he's become this like public persona, obviously with his like relationship, Rihanna icon and they're both so fucking funny to listen to, but and I and I just love listening to ASAP talk about culture at large.

Like he's so interesting.

I like a lot of the production of his music.

I like a lot of his beats just to be very straightforward in this song, Trunks the back out the trunk from the front to the back.

The the lyrics are are so bad.

They're so awful, but the the beat is insane.

Do you know what I mean?

Like the production of the music is fucking wild and really elite, but the lyrics are so strange because they're superficial.

I feel like it's purposeful though.

And I was going to ask you, do you think it's they made the production, the beat, they put all the money into the production of the song because they knew it was going to be a mainstream hit.

And it is.

It's becoming like a a big hit.

But the lyrics are literally about like the character talking about baby Mamas and like wanting to become a.

Celebrity.

I was going to say the the song itself feels like similarly how I feel that A$AP Rocky character was treated in the movie.

Which is that like the the lyrics are reductive, you know, and so is the portrayal of like A$AP Rocky character.

Yeah, and I guess I do.

You think it's more just like Spike's strange relationship to hip hop, I guess.

Like, I don't know, that's all.

I guess that's a whole other conversation.

Yeah, but that's not like, you know, in his filmography, like he has like he has both jazz and classical music and like his dad was a musician, right.

But he also does have hip hop and like and do the right thing.

And for for sure, I just think I'm, I'm saying that I think going back to my clockers point, I think sometimes Lee uplifts like certain black traditions while treating others with a little bit of suspicion.

And I think that's where the class observations or like contradictions land.

And that's why I was talking about the bell hooks point about Do the Right Thing, which to me is like a basically perfect movie, but this.

Movie though, like in particular, it seems like very.

And that's why I was saying that the music not only didn't work, it was like too loud over the dialogue at the beginning with Jeffrey Wright and Denzel's like character, but it also then felt like a weird commentary on how it was being paired with wealth versus like A$AP Rocky character.

And even though, yeah, the song is like good ultimately, yeah.

Felt especially how like, you know, Denzel like kept saying like, why does she have to be a bitch?

Why does she have to be a bitch?

Yeah.

That kind of idea of yeah, anyway, was like so embedded in the moralizing of like.

It almost leaned satire, like I thought it was going to like bamboozled on us.

Like when it has the dancers?

Yeah, I was like, are we going to?

Behind Young Felony and I was like, is he doing something like kind of borderline satirical here?

Like is he shifting the tone of the movie?

That's interesting.

I don't know.

So that was a choice I'd like to hear from listeners on this movie.

I feel like this has been a complicated conversation.

We I think we tried our best.

I wish we talked more about the humor because there were some funny jokes in this.

Rick, I think Rick Fox is one of the coaches of the basketball team or the head coach, I guess.

And the two of the cops that come and ask him about the ransom, they shoot it in a way where even though Fox is like he towers over those cops because he's like obviously a former, well, I don't know obviously for you, but a former NBA player.

So he's very tall.

And I think the guy, one of the cops goes, you know, Larry Bird, what does he say?

It's something funny like that.

Well, that's like funny because it's Spike nodding to like micro aggressive, like racist comments that people from Boston make.

That's why he has like fuck Boston attitude through laced throughout so many of his movies.

That was a good moment there.

So there's a lot of comedy in this film that we probably skipped over or some good like dreamy cinematography that we probably should have gave more time to.

So yeah.

I mean, I think I, it's weird 'cause like, just to close out, like I really enjoyed being in the world, right?

Like, obviously I love the way that Spike Lee, like, constructs his films.

And obviously I've liked all of the performances, so, and the chemistry between like all the, the actors was great too.

But again, it was just like, I mean, we've talked about it at length here now.

So like, again, that was just, yeah, the the the themes, which is why I'm interested in a movie ultimately like kind of fell flat.

I'm excited to talk about Spike the next two episodes on Patreon.

I mean, this is a, this is one of the most legendary film makers of the last 50 years.

And I think on the Do the Right Thing episode, we'll talk a lot about how he has, he's just like not been given the resources historically and consistently to play in the Hollywood sandbox through his career.

And he's had to really fight for capital, fight for resources, spiteful for final cut, sometimes even funding projects out of his own pocket or taking investments from friends just to tell stories he wants to tell on his own terms.

He built 40 acres and a mule, stayed independent, elevated non white artist.

And it's kind of like sacrificed a lot of mainstream awards and recognition by calling out racism in Hollywood and classism in Hollywood.

And so the irony of all of that and what we're going to be just discussing on Do the Right Thing and Inside Man is this movie is the first film I've watched, I think, in Spike Lee's filmography.

Honestly, that feels like, like, did I miss something along the way?

Did I not catch something totally?

OK, so extra credits.

Oh yes, extra credits so.

Can you go first because I still I I have mine but I'm thinking if there's also like an additional 1.

I'll give it to Matthew Libertique.

I believe it's Libertique.

I apologize if it's not his cinematography.

Turning New York into that living metaphor was exactly what I wanted.

You know, like opening the movie like that, seeing the vertical lines of the of the the buildings, the staircases, the subway tunnels.

The subway it was.

The subway is a great sequence too.

The different stops too, yeah.

Yeah, the story, the original IP, like kind of the back to the novel from the United States to then the the Kurosawa movie, The obsession with who's on top and who's trapped below, creating the tension of how major cities are built in particular across the world and how Spike frames Washington against those skylines and against those glass towers.

And we see the back of young felon looking up at all these things when he's on the phone and some kind of funny sequences when they're on the phone with each other and kind of dropping us into like, shadowy apartments.

And then it's kind of subway cars.

All of that.

Like charting this kind of like descent into maybe the only reason why this much poverty exists is because Washington is so comfortable in his skyscraper.

Or obviously, more accurately, the more historically dominant class of wealthy, you know, moguls who are usually, like white men in those positions who have had all this power and have not distributed it back or been forced to.

And so therefore you have like just a lot of storytelling, the architecture that I really want to give a lot of love to and the way it shot.

Yeah, my one of my extra credits was going to be like how the the city was shot and like especially the parade sequence with the money drop off sequence, like on the subway.

And then also the opening, which I talked about before, but I thought it was a really like interesting opening.

It may be really excited for like the themes of the movie that we're going to be explored.

But my other extra credit is going to go to A$AP Rocky performance.

Like I just want to see him in more.

Yes, I think he he embodied somebody who like was able to confront somebody like Denzel Washington, which is pretty wild.

Yeah, that was what was crazy.

I think Spike asks him in that interview that I was talking about earlier, and I'll try, I'll try to remember to link it.

But just look up those three names and you'll you'll see a 30 minute interview.

And they're like in this white room with the window behind them.

It's a really cool conversation.

And I think Spike asks ASAP, were you intimidated by Denzel?

And he was like, no, I was excited.

He said something to that effect.

And I was really, I was giddy about that response because most people, you know, in any position of power would be like, yeah, it's Denzel Washington.

He is really intimidating in real life because he just doesn't fuck around right.

I mean, even if you think about like their the actual real life story of like how ASAP went to his house, right?

Yeah, I, I think that's so true.

And you can feel it like in their performance, which is pretty wild.

Like he, he does not feel intimidated.

And it, it's really like wild to see because you're, you know, so interested in also like looking at Denzel's performance too, like in this stage of his career, like I was talking about with thinking about like De Niro or write someone who's like this huge actor and has such a huge presence in in movies.

And so like you're so tuned into his performance and then you like finally meet right like A$AP Rocky character and it really feels like a face off like which is is pretty wild like that he can hold his own with such a an amazing actor like Denzel.

Yeah, shout out, Rihanna.

So, yeah, listeners, let us know what you think of highest to lowest.

That's the extra credits of this newest movie from Spike Lee.

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Don't forget about Patreon being a free member and getting access to High and low.

We'll be back on the main feed pretty soon.

What are we talking about next is.

It.

Going to be our Q&A.

I guess so.

We got some questions from listeners.

We're going to have AQ and a episode out soon.

We got a Paul Thomas Anderson movie this month.

That's so true.

We're seeing the new Conjuring tomorrow night.

Yeah, we've been rewatching Conjuring movies.

I have a lot to say.

Me too.

I got a lot to say about that fucking nun.

The Conjuring, too.

I got a lot to say about how The Conjuring is really just superhero movies for Christians.

Like, they're basically Veggie Tales for adults in the horror genre, You know what I mean?

And I mean that in the in the nicest way I can mean that.

Does that make?

Sense Lorraine's an icon, yeah.

OK, they are.

They're both Ed and Lorraine icons.

A lot to say about them.

All right, we'll be back.

Peace.