[SPEAKER_00]: This is Cynthia Gannoff and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Friends, welcome to the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: You guys, one of my favorite guests that is ever on this show ever is Darren Kinder.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as you probably know, who's the first guest on this podcast, he's been on here a couple times.

[SPEAKER_00]: And as on my old podcast, I'm not sure there's another person who's story in their mission has impacted me more than Darren Kinders outside of the Bible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you, Darren Kinders story from nine to eleven, two thousand one being a survivor.

[SPEAKER_00]: It has changed the way that I look at life, the way Mike and I parent.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, Darren Kinder is a formal special.

[SPEAKER_00]: agent of the Secret Service for the United States.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he spent twenty-five years doing that work.

[SPEAKER_00]: And on September eleven, yeah, he was on Ground Zero on New York City when the Trade Center was attacked.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what he did that day earned him a Secret Service Medal of Valor.

[SPEAKER_00]: But more than that, it's like shaped his faith as perspective on life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it has done the same for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm thrilled that he finally wrote the book that we've been all telling him for years, right the book, right the book.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's here, Barry Me in a dirty suit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a book I would love for you to grab a copy for yourself, but for your husband, for your neighbor, for your sons.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a powerful story, but also a powerful way that we can encourage him as he steps out in the mission that the Lord has called him to do next.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you are a church leader or you have organizations that need speakers, can I just tell you that I give this the highest recommendation?

[SPEAKER_00]: for Darren Kinder to come in and speak.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard him several times.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've invited him to different things that we've done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Incredible and people are always asking for his information to keep using him because he has such a powerful testimony.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if that's something that is of interest to you, please reach out to Darren Kinder on Darren Kinder.com or fiercefaith.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will link it all in podcasts notes.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here we go kicking it off with Darren Kinder.

[SPEAKER_00]: DK, welcome to round two of this podcast now that we have the audio fixed.

[SPEAKER_00]: How are you?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing great.

[SPEAKER_01]: How are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for being here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am my very hands everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am holding a book, Barry Me and a dirty suit by Darren Kender, discovering man's value in purpose in the aftermath of nine eleven.

[SPEAKER_00]: Barry Me and a dirty suit.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just happy that this book is in my hands before I'm buried.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how long we've been waiting for this book, Darren Kender.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I've been writing that book in my head for about ten or fifteen years.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I had to finish some things professionally.

[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to finish the mission that I thought I was called to in the Secret Service.

[SPEAKER_01]: But now that that is in my rear view, I was able to focus a lot more of my efforts on this and my next chapter of life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And really about two years ago when we sat down for dinner, he sat down with my wife and with your friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: you and you and Stephanie were very encouraging to me as to as to go for it and I already knew that but that was a little bit of encouragement I need as long as the way so it wouldn't have been done without you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well I don't know about that but I'm sure that the encouragement wasn't nice and kind and lovely I'm sure it's snarky and get on with this already and I'm glad it works.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah pretty snarky.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah okay good.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you guys have not been around here a long time, then you may not know this, but everyone else does Darren Kinders and Secret Service for twenty five years.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he was a survivor of the nine eleven attacks and his story that I was so he was so gracious.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me use it in my first book.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I ended the whole thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: His story has been one of the most [SPEAKER_00]: Influential stories may be of someone other than the Bible in my lifetime just the way you speak into that day and the challenge you give from it and it's changed how I want to live how I want to raise my kids and so I'm I'm I'm so passionate about the message and I wanted you to write this book because I think that people need to hear this and so gave for you for finally doing it I'm so grabbed glad you are here today and Second only to the book [SPEAKER_00]: is a fact that for the last, how long do you think I've known you five years?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, about that, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so for five of your twenty five years, there's been someone hounding you saying, tell me something about this, tell me about the secret service.

[SPEAKER_00]: What don't I know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Who are you all mission with?

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?

[SPEAKER_01]: Always, always, yes, yes, yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't be the only person that wants to know everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, okay, inquisitive minds, what I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, totally.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Darren is so diplomatic and so honorable.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he's always like, can't really tell you that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I've been out once and a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll get a nugget.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I'm just like, this is the coolest thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now, second to the book big out, I'm excited because you said I can ask some questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't ask in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we're still, I still have to stay with the boundaries.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm allowed to ask a few questions that the people want to know.

[SPEAKER_00]: People want to know.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm starting to regret this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But go ahead.

[SPEAKER_00]: for sure you're going to regret this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who have you protected like just generally speaking like who all have you protected?

[SPEAKER_01]: In some capacity in various different roles, every president from Clinton to currently Trump, so every president and vice president in between.

[SPEAKER_01]: Also a lot of foreign heads of state, most people don't know when a foreign head of state, the Prime Minister of England, for example, whoever comes to United States to seek a service to protect some while in country.

[SPEAKER_01]: That list is pretty long and interesting as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, as well as others, but that's it and not show.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm more likely to take a bullet for I'm just going to say everybody for an American president or diplomat than a foreign one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to say that, which is probably why I haven't been hired.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm that's something that you're willing you're protecting whoever comes through.

[SPEAKER_01]: It gets interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I years ago, I was on the protective detail for the the Iranian president.

[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember which one it was at the time.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that's the job, that's the current law.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they have the right to deny it.

[SPEAKER_01]: They have the right to say no thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, almost all of them take us up on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a favorite person that you've protected over the years?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's power rank my top three and my worst three, okay?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm kidding.

[SPEAKER_00]: I knew you weren't gonna do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I laughed out loud.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no way you were good.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I was here for it, man.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was here for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're doing it out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not taking the bait.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're not telling me top three or bottom three.

[SPEAKER_00]: No.

[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, I love this guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us something about the job that we're not aware of that we don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, something different.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, most folks don't realize or think that, you know, people that are protected by the secret service, they still go and have fun, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And they still have, like, you have recreational activities, I have, you know, so today.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's when things get challenging and interesting and I would say fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: when you're a protectee is doing something recreationally.

[SPEAKER_01]: I had the honor of being a rescue swimmer with the secret service and that meant any time a protectee went on the water and any capacity we were there as a rescue element.

[SPEAKER_01]: So whether that's well watching on a boat or what would a rafting down a river or just cruising doing a sunset cruise.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a really interesting part of my job.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've done that all over the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: President, former President Bush, Bush-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh-Voosh- [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, with that reason.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're typically, typically, in some capacity, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I heard you tell me one time that you, your mountain biking wasn't the best, that's a good story of your trail picking trails.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tell us about the candy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, one time I was riding, I was riding bikes with President Bush, and I let him, I was in, I was in charge of the, the advanced head day.

[SPEAKER_01]: I let him down the wrong trail.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to go to this certain trail.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I let him down the wrong one on accident.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then he would proceed to have like, you know, really bad crash.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the worst crashes I've seen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, for about two seconds, I was thinking, wow, if he's dead, I think it's my fault.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're on the wrong trail, but everything worked out okay and always forgetting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, that's high pressure, high stakes.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a part of the job, or we also taking care of and protecting presidential kids, family members, all that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sure, sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Not after they leave office, but while the Trump president Trump today has a fairly large, large family with, you know, several grown, grown children that are adults, but their children as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: So grandchildren, it gets, it becomes a really, a really big operation really quickly.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is the calling to, is the goal to not be seen?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about like, when you're in public and all that and we want to have a strong presence, we know they're being protected.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just saying, you're just running life with these people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you just trying to be out of sight out of mind?

[SPEAKER_01]: It depends on the circumstance.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, sometimes you, you make your job even more difficult by drawing attention, undo attention to yourself, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's that discretion of the supervisor in charge [SPEAKER_01]: You know, sometimes you want to be overt and obvious and sometimes you want to be a little more discreet is the word I would use.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You told me one time that you were talking about just traveling in all the countries you've been to.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the first time I figured out this job as maybe not as glamorous as I had in my mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you explained how you travel sometimes, tell us about that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, in my career, I went all over the world for one different country.

[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of that was by, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: Air Force transport planes, C- Seventeen.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of people don't know that we take our, we take our armored vehicles all over the world, the president, vice president, whoever never, never drives in someone else's vehicle, even on the other side of the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: So these vehicles, these armored cars are, you know, driven up onto the transport planes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're taking planes, you might as well fill the rest of the plane with [SPEAKER_01]: with agents like me so it's not really there's there's no flight attendant there's it's a canvas fold down seat it's not glamorous at all and the good news is you're only looking at you know in eight hour flight or a twelve hour flight so what could go wrong wow well I don't know why that was so fascinating to me I guess I never thought it through that of course we take the presidential cars when they go somewhere [SPEAKER_00]: But you mentioned one time something about, yeah, being on a long flight with a car, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, what's going on in the world?

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, well, of course, we're not going to put him in someone else's vehicle across the world.

[SPEAKER_00]: So make sense.

[SPEAKER_00]: So interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I could ask a thousand more things, but I don't want to get shut down.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm moving on everybody.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm moving on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Moving on.

[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can breathe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now you can breathe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for now anyway, until you then call me later and tell me you have to edit all that out.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, here we are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's like, I don't even know how to go a bridge, but I want people to read the book, but long story short is on nine eleven you are a young secret service agent and you are a couple blocks over from the world trade centers and you were there when the world came crashing down.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure, our office was in seven world trade centers.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the seventh building of the complex just north of the north tower, which tower one, which was the first tower to be hit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, on impact felt felt of vibration and you know that that began a really a really long hard day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I was reading this in your book and you said at eight forty six, well, you said military time, but I didn't know how to say it, so I just raised it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, eight, four, six hours.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, eight, please.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, eight, four, six.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, eight, four, six hours of faint vibration shatter through the locker room.

[SPEAKER_00]: I felt it through the souls of my feet hurt at the quiet rattle of furniture and alarmingly the building itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't have noted the moment that America had just been sucker-patched.

[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't have known that an unprecedented number of men and women in World Trade Center won an American Airlines Flight Eleven in a subvictum set on impact as their aircraft slammed in the north side of World Trade Center won.

[SPEAKER_00]: had just been killed.

[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't have known they were joined in death by four radical Islamic extremists who took the plane with unforgiving violence.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think of that, that's the beginning of a story, a long story, a long day for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to fast forward to the end just because I want you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm never going to have you on the show without you telling how that day ended after.

[SPEAKER_00]: After one of the hardest and presumably worst days of your life, how that ended and kind of the title the book.

[SPEAKER_00]: So will you just hit that for us?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure, you know, the day was long.

[SPEAKER_01]: So oh, wait, forty six is when the first impact was and I got home at [SPEAKER_01]: Approximately four or four thirty in the afternoon is when I made it home.

[SPEAKER_01]: So so that's my day and in that time, you know, just helping people evacuate and me and a bunch of my colleagues just doing all kinds of things or even we even demand a band and fire equipment and putting out fires and and so forth and my clothes caught fire several times during the day and you know the ironic part was that day all of the Secret Service agents.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were all wearing suits because [SPEAKER_01]: Because we had a big meeting, a big briefing later that day.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, at the end of the day, we finally rendezvous with a bunch of the other agents.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I spent my day with the handful of men, I call them my guys, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: In the book, I call them my guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we eventually rendezvous with all the other agents in person now, about thirty, forty bucks north on the West Side Highway.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we entered into this place and we needed a change of clothes and we needed medical attention.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we entered this place and she's a large room.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a large group of agents to my ride.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they look like we did.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we were beaten and bloody and torn.

[SPEAKER_01]: My shoes were malformed because they had melted my pants for short because they kept catching fire.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were just destroyed.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, as I say in the book, on the other side of the room was another group of colleagues and so forth.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they were in clean suits.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I say that, I point that out not to disparage anyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: These people, for example, went on to serve their country, admirably for many years in the high-risk scenarios.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I could not get that dichotomy out of my mind.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was clean suits and there was dirty suits.

[SPEAKER_01]: As I said in the book, courage is a choice.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the next day I just couldn't get it out of my head.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't get this image out of my head.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was September, twelfth.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sitting on the sofa in my apartment in Hoboken, New Jersey.

[SPEAKER_01]: Then I just said the Lord in prayer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering, what am I going to do?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do with my life.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, I don't know what you have in store for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: You should have taken me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I should be here because I should have died at least twice that day as you know.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I said, Lord, I promise you this when I'm going to spend the rest of my days getting my suit dirty in the name of Jesus.

[SPEAKER_01]: So making an impact and bringing light into darkness, getting that suit dirty.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it just rolled off of my time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how or where it came from.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I said, I said to the Lord in that prayer, when you call me home and I punch out of this world, bury me in a dirty suit.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just stuck with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where the title of the book comes from.

[SPEAKER_01]: Full confession here sent to you.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't my title choice.

[SPEAKER_01]: There was a few choices.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the one that I did not come up with.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it hits.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's in the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of my editors said, this is, this needs to be your title.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, and one of the best decisions I made.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's, it's powerful.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that you say courage is a choice because, yeah, like, [SPEAKER_00]: Like every day we have the opportunity to do the hard things or take the easier roads and it doesn't for most of us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Almost everybody, it doesn't look like what it looked like for you on that day.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now you're living your life after that, still making courageous choices.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously riding a book is a courageous choice.

[SPEAKER_00]: Lots of things along the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're raising boys.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're raising like twelve boys, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: How many sons do you have?

[SPEAKER_00]: for it last time.

[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like it felt like a lot more when I see them out and about.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a message.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that's so deeply ingrained in you, but something that you feel so important in raising your voice.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to talk to us a little bit about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's that look like?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it looks like, like I said, courage is a choice.

[SPEAKER_01]: Part of the reason I'm so excited about [SPEAKER_01]: about this next phase is next chapter of my life as I, as I'm an author now and I'm getting into public speaking and that's really where my heart is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want my boys to have a front row seat that he's lived a life of service and he felt like that mission was complete for my part and they're going to have a front row seat to me doing something stepping out in faith.

[SPEAKER_01]: As I told you earlier, I'm swimming in unchartered waters for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want them to see me succeed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I want them to see me fail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because no doubt I will do both.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I want them to see that there's boldness in that.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we have a lot of family mantras.

[SPEAKER_01]: And one of them is you can do hard things.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've been doing hard things with them, challenging things with them since they were, since they were toddlers on purpose.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then kind of [SPEAKER_01]: and drawn that out and making life lessons out of it.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's a few spots in the books here where I talk about a couple of excursions we took on the Arkansas River in Colorado.

[SPEAKER_01]: We do that every year.

[SPEAKER_01]: It gets hairy sometimes, but we learn from the, I don't want to be sitting on the shore, just watching these rafts go by.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to get out there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to experience it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go up and down.

[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of want to flip over, sometimes we flip over, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, that is, you know, kids are most of what they learn is caught, not taught, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I have a wife, the Lord has partnered me with a woman who is just, I mean, Cynthia, she has adventure in her bones.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, when I got hired by the Secret Service, the boss of the office I hired from said, you know what, you're probably going to get sent to New York City.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Heather's response with us, that would be awesome, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Because we lived in Virginia, a small town Virginia guy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so she's been, she's been with me every step of the way.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's just how we want to, how we want to live our life.

[SPEAKER_01]: Safe, safe is, uh, the planet safe is, is, is boring.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's feckless.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think we're made, especially as men.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like to speak to men.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're, we're just not played, we're not, we're not made to play safe.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like with your without, you know, giving too much into your voice life?

[SPEAKER_00]: But what does that look like in raising them?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like times where there's been, I don't know, there's their text threads that you're like, listen, do the hard thing, like speak up to that or, or respectfulness towards teachers when there's not been others or in sports, a lot of big baseball people.

[SPEAKER_00]: What does that practically look like?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I like in our house too, like, I've prayed since my kids were little that they would do hard things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you something, everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you pray that, the Lord will absolutely honor that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's been things on the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, not that hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I want hard, like, I don't want to be in the middle of the river with you guys when you're out rafting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say them willing to stay in a less than nice hotel.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's my hard thing, Darren, okay?

[SPEAKER_00]: And the Lord apparently didn't honor that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I see that jokingly.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, how is that looked with your boys?

[SPEAKER_00]: How have you encouraged them practically in the things that they're coming across?

[SPEAKER_01]: We have one of the things we have told them, one of our little mantras again, is from when they were toddlers.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are gonna be different.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna do things different.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna live life different.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you and I were living a nice area.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's nice things all around us, and life is pretty darn easy compared to the rest of the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: But we've just told them from the beginning, hey, we're gonna do things different.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not gonna go with the flow.

[SPEAKER_01]: And here's why, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: God calls us to be different.

[SPEAKER_01]: It calls us to be holy, and holy doesn't mean perfect.

[SPEAKER_01]: Holy means set apart.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so we've just done, I mean, it takes all shapes and forms, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm challenging.

[SPEAKER_01]: My son walked out the door today to go to high school football practice.

[SPEAKER_01]: I reminded him that locker room is your mission field.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't come to that conclusion.

[SPEAKER_01]: He came to that conclusion because he's like, you know what, I can, and what does that look like for him?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it takes guts.

[SPEAKER_01]: Man, it takes courage to be different, to have different words come out of your mouth when a lot of other people are using, you know, foul language or whatever, too, to talk about maybe women in a degrading way.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, you can talk about them in an uplifting way, too.

[SPEAKER_01]: to treat the least of these with dignity as opposed to derision.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like so, it gets real, it gets real for them really quickly, especially in high school.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would say even in junior high, that we're gonna, if we're looking like everybody else and we're doing what everyone else is doing, well then let's look in our life, or we follow in Jesus right now, because Jesus was the most counter-cultural [SPEAKER_01]: human God meant to ever walk the earth, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's, in a practical sense, you know, that would be, that would be an example that comes to mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you ever struggle with the fact that you were spared on a day with so much loss?

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you look back at that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people talk out survivors guilt and some of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just curious as you look back on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Has that been a struggle with you and just trying to understand how [SPEAKER_00]: how and why God spared you, or does that just drive your mission?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or both?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a complicated answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've wrestled with it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I never had what traditionally would be called survivors guilt, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: I did want to know why.

[SPEAKER_01]: Especially, you know, I told you September, twelve.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sitting on my sofa.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hand, what is going on?

[SPEAKER_01]: Praying to the Lord.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I asked him, I realized I humbly submitted my life to him and said, look, I want you to do with me as you see fit.

[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be used as an implement of yours.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am not here by accident.

[SPEAKER_01]: I am here at this place, at this time.

[SPEAKER_01]: That day, for example, I was there at that time, that place for a reason, for a purpose.

[SPEAKER_01]: And every day, moving forward, that's called getting your suit dirty every day.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I asked him, or what does that look like for me, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But I never asked [SPEAKER_01]: why I survived or it was more like, hey, I get it.

[SPEAKER_01]: What do you want me to do now, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And even he didn't even really clearly answer that for me for another about four or five years.

[SPEAKER_01]: I went to a period of struggle just with with I call it purpose lost, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a disease, especially amongst men.

[SPEAKER_01]: And but once he's [SPEAKER_01]: Once he kind of answered some of those prayers and started revealed to me what he had in store for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was just a matter of obediently taking one step after another.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I never felt entitled to new I.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, the big question, why would a loving, all-powerful God let three thousand people be erased in a matter of a second?

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I never felt like I was entitled to that answer.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Isaiah, fifty-five, the Lord says, my ways are not in your ways and my thoughts are not your thoughts.

[SPEAKER_01]: His high is the heavens are to the earth, my high, my ways and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the reality, but I also know from, I believe it's first Corinthians, thirteen, he says, you know, now we see through a mirror dimly.

[SPEAKER_01]: but soon we will see face to face.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now I know in part, but then I will know in full.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's a promise.

[SPEAKER_01]: God's word is full of promises and all God's promises are true.

[SPEAKER_01]: One day it'll be clear to me, but I'm not entitled to that right now, and I certainly don't try to answer that question for other people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I recall which I did recall, so I don't know why I said it that way, but when you were, you protected or were a part of a huge protection.

[SPEAKER_00]: effort right after nine eleven and we all remember President Bush standing in the pile of rubble with the bullhorn.

[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to us about that moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like to be to experience the destruction but the power of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: One of the most powerful days in my life and maybe the high water market my professional career to be able to be a part of that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because I returned three days later.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is September, fourteenth.

[SPEAKER_01]: I returned to my personal battlefield.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was assigned to the same area where I spent all of the eleventh, you know, what I call inner, inner and the fight with my guys.

[SPEAKER_01]: And there I was three days later, but with a different mission, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And that mission was very clear.

[SPEAKER_01]: The president of the United States is coming here and we've lost our entire offices going, we've lost all of our equipment, all of our, but that's all been shipped in and now we're just gonna put this thing together on, you know, [SPEAKER_01]: It seems like a little bit over twenty four hours notice, and it was chaotic.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the plan didn't go as well as it could have because it was an impossible mission.

[SPEAKER_01]: How do you secure a site for the President of the United States while it's an active recovery area, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And the President and his staff, they didn't want to obstruct any rescue efforts, of course.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it was nearly impossible to ask.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was very young, very junior, very junior, and I ended up being actually really quite close to the president that day.

[SPEAKER_01]: But to see him interact, and I write this in the book, to see him interact with the firefighters, the policemen, the steamfitters, the welders, these guys, these guys were rough, but they were fired up.

[SPEAKER_01]: And they were hurting, and I could see it, it just really resonated with the president.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it really moved him.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they were saying some rough things to him.

[SPEAKER_01]: They were telling, you know, there was bloodlust in there.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really, it's what I write in the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he was making promises, you know, what we're going to take care of these people.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, he grabs that bullhorn.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, says something to the effect of, you know, I hear you and the people who knocked down these buildings are going to hear from all of us soon in the place just went nuts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, I don't know, ten, fifteen feet from President of that time.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting the hair standing up on the back of my neck right now, just thinking about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: The chance of USA, it was just a, it was a beautiful moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it just makes me think of that holy event.

[SPEAKER_01]: That holy event binds us together as a nation forever.

[SPEAKER_01]: We all, if you're, if you're of age, we all have an experience about day and we all have something we can share about that day and the time afterwards.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I never want to let that go.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's tragic as it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: I never want to let that go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's written so beautifully.

[SPEAKER_00]: You wrote it about it so beautifully in the book.

[SPEAKER_00]: You'll need to read that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's done so well.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm just going to be honest with you now knowing what we know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed a little silly, but I was sitting in Dallas in a house and I was scared in the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was sitting in and I believe we were trying to like stockpile water and looking in the sky for what was next.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we were scared.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just wondering, I mean, were you scared?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you don't have time to be?

[SPEAKER_00]: How does that play out?

[SPEAKER_01]: on the eleventh or on the fourteenth or any time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm thinking of fourteenth in particular when you're back in there and you maybe a little bit of a sitting duck, but yeah, either one of them.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I friend of mine, we were driving another agent.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were, I haven't thought of this and I actually I don't think I mentioned in the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were driving to that assignment on the fourteen.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, how are you doing this?

[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, [SPEAKER_01]: The Lord is my God.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just relying on the Lord and he says, well, I'm just relying on you.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's go.

[SPEAKER_01]: And really it was, I mean, I, when I was standing there before we started getting a briefing, I was looking around and I let the emotions hit me for maybe about thirty seconds.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I just gulp that down and said focus on the mission.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it became.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're, if you're working operationally and you're scared, [SPEAKER_01]: then you're focused on the fear you're not focused on the mission and so even as a young and dumb agent as I call myself in the book I knew enough to know that so really no fear that day was just a really mission focused and you know when you're working as a team I played a very small role very small role that day let me be clear but when you're working as a team and it's a it's a force multiplier stand in shoulders shoulder with men and women yeah yeah yeah amazing [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk about fear's faith.

[SPEAKER_00]: Does that same of your ministry, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Fear's faith?

[SPEAKER_01]: What is fear's faith?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why are you so passionate about a fear's faith?

[SPEAKER_01]: It's the call, I think the God puts on all believers.

[SPEAKER_01]: And as you know, I speak a lot to men.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the book is kind of written in a tone, a four men, two men, but it's equally applicable to all believers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, you know, when Paul tells us in first Timothy six to fight the good fight of faith, there's a fierce intensity to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That word that he used, he says it three times in scripture, it was a word.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Greek there was a word used in military maneuvers and athletic, you know, prowess kind of thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it just denoted like vigorous, rigorous, intense effort.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what he's saying, a fight to good fight of faith.

[SPEAKER_01]: And before that, he's saying, you know, pursue righteousness and godliness and steadfastness and all these things, fight to good fight of faith and grab hold of the calling for which you've been called.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love John MacArthur has a quote about that verse.

[SPEAKER_01]: The man of God is known for what he flees from, what he chases after, what he fights for and what he's faithful to.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just want to lay that on top of my life and use that as a marker.

[SPEAKER_01]: And because we're counterculture, we're called to be counterculture.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just send the if I'm being honest, I get sick and tired sometimes of the lowest me Christian who's in life as hard or make you believe they're saying that they're calling me, they say that I hate when I really, you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: Let's find some fierce intensity about our faith, and let's make the culture feel the weight of us.

[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of us being like, let them feel the weight, have them have to deal and reckon with a love that is fierce, that is true and that is honest.

[SPEAKER_01]: But a love that has action, Tim Killer, I write this in the book that he has a fascinating, a great quote where he says that anger, anger reads bitterness, but righteous anger, abresaction.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I want to call, all believers in specifically men, call them off the sideline.

[SPEAKER_01]: This world is, I'm very fond of saying this world is full of problems.

[SPEAKER_01]: And each one of us was designed and created to be the solution to at least once.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's get after it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Such a good word.

[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the book you write this, I desire something similar for each of you to fight the good fight in the arena for which God has created you, to win, to lose, to strike, and to be struck, to dare greatly and [SPEAKER_00]: Rick had good trouble in the name of Jesus.

[SPEAKER_00]: I pray I will have the courage to do it myself and I just think that's an incredible challenge for all of us and I D.

K.

you should know I have already signed over I didn't sign your book don't worry that got weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I wrote a note to my son that were dropping off in college in a few days with this book and I wrote a note and I underlined some different portions of that you wrote of just the challenge to do the hard things and the challenge to get in the fight and that's a phrase.

[SPEAKER_00]: that you mentioned here that from your dad and I want to end with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I bought an extra copy to send a call to my son because again, I want him to do the hard things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want him to engage in the fight.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want him to not stand back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, the word fight has in Scripture has just this connotation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not like, hey, stroll into a good faith, stroll over there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or kind of try when you have a moment or when it's convenient, I really want you to do the right like now.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want you to go in there and fight for what [SPEAKER_00]: The Lord has put in front of us, and the mission he gives us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I have an extra copy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to also get one to send to my daughter, but this is an incredible book for our husbands for us.

[SPEAKER_00]: I loved it because I love the story.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is an incredible graduation gift.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just think there's so many awesome, awesome people to give us too, awesome ways to use it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So as we wrap it up, what's the line?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's get back in the fight or get into the fight.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's that with that your dad would say?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he would say get back in the fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that started in athletic competition.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think one time when I was very young, he saw me go down and stay down, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: And after the game, he was like, pretty injured.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, no, I wasn't injured.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, then get back in the fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't just sit there and lay there and talk and say your leg hurts.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it just stuck with me.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know my father.

[SPEAKER_01]: My father was a complicated man.

[SPEAKER_01]: He had his demons, he battled alcoholism, and he did not, he was a good man, a good father.

[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't a spiritual father, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't give me a lot in the ways of faith, but he was a fear-student, and sometimes that was healthy, and sometimes it wasn't, but I have that same fear of sensitivity.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it is my duty, it is my challenge daily too.

[SPEAKER_01]: to channel that, right, to funnel that in a discipline manner, to make good trouble for the enemy and to cultivate and build out my family and protect my family and all these things that God's word calls specifically meant to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm reminded of it, of it, of it constantly.

[SPEAKER_01]: Get back in the fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I love boxing.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love MMA.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you probably, you probably don't.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's just something about it.

[SPEAKER_01]: A man and women as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: But two people willing to put themselves in the military and say, you know what, I'm going to either, I'm either going to be victorious or I may, I may be knocked out conscious at the end of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to put my butt on the line.

[SPEAKER_01]: and and and getting there and sometimes you know a fight turns turns on a dime sometimes you're receiving all kinds of shots and and and then you then you land around and I just want to encourage men to not be as as Teddy Roosevelt said those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat I don't want anyone to punch out of this road and be like you know what I never really put it on the line I never really I always say if I was good I was a good guy I was a nice guy [SPEAKER_01]: But you know what?

[SPEAKER_01]: I never really, I never really aggressively and fiercely lived out my faith in a way that really brought light into the darkest and to the darkest places.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's one of the areas that I encourage especially in men is to find your arena.

[SPEAKER_01]: I talk about that in the book.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, this world is full of problems and you were created handcrafted as a masterpiece designed by God for this time, for this place, to enter into an arena.

[SPEAKER_01]: So find the arena for me.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've shared this really before the whole world of child sex trafficking just just wrecks my soul.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've volunteered time in the past to to help combat that and after I get this this book launched in this ministry more stabbers I plan to donate a lot more of my time to that fight.

[SPEAKER_01]: find that, find that thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then I tell guys to do it together, you know, guys sit around a table, look at each other, and discuss things, and that's good, that is good.

[SPEAKER_01]: But men really click when they're shoulder to shoulder doing something.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so find your brothers, find that band of brothers to stand shoulder to shoulder width, to get in the fight into.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you read that quote to wreak havoc to make good trouble for the enemy.

[SPEAKER_01]: That.

[SPEAKER_01]: is just another way, another way that we get our suit dirty every day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're sitting there wondering, like, I mean, what is my thing, though?

[SPEAKER_00]: What am I supposed to get?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's my arena?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember someone said to me, a young married, someone I heard a speaker say, figure out the thing that keeps you awake at night if you really think about it and get involved in that, whatever it means.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to solve it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I remember laying a bed one night, I'm like, OK, kids in our community that are hungry.

[SPEAKER_00]: That can keep me awake at night.

[SPEAKER_00]: And getting our family involved in serving in that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, just fine, fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: They I love that you how you mentioned that just now with sex trafficking.

[SPEAKER_00]: finding your thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then one other thing that struck me, you and my husband are good friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: And when you were talking about how your dad would say that, you know, get back up, get in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mike always says, our kids, are you injured?

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you hurt?

[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're always going to be hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we're always hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Something's always aching.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's some pain, there's something.

[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're not injured, then let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that maybe that's a word too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what's your speaking?

[SPEAKER_00]: Is it like, listen, we've all been hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've all, we've had culture hurt us.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've had church hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've had [SPEAKER_00]: Back last week that unfairly treated or spoken to or whatever, but if you're not injured, then let's go right and let's get back in there and do the hard things and fight the good fight and so wow Darren.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for for finally writing the dang book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my goodness.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not getting any younger, but here it is everyone.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be very me in a dirty suit.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's Amazon.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's ready.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's out.

[SPEAKER_01]: We can get it out Amazon Barnes and Noble dot com Amazon.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can also grab it off my website.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, it's out there for the world to see.

[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't be more excited.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to thank you for all the support and encouragement.

[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes the nagging that you've that you've used.

[SPEAKER_01]: Really been a really a good encouragement.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's it's an honor to be here to be to share this message with your listeners.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I just want to get the message out there that all of us that should be our heartfelt desire at the day of Lord, Barry M in a dirty suit.

[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you guys, listen to us, please.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would, as I've said, over and over and over and over and I'll say again, most powerful story, personal testimony that I've heard.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's impacted my life.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to grab a copy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to do that because I think it will impact you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to do that because I want you to support Darren.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a way for us to thank him for twenty-five years of service, too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And there's by one copy, but heck, by a couple.

[SPEAKER_00]: Give one to your sons, your husbands, your neighbor, whatever.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is an amazing bucket.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And don't even worry, guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Darren will come back on the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the next one I'm going to have another.

[SPEAKER_00]: First, twenty minutes of questions of things.

[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want to talk about these.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I can't answer that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I won't answer that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the next one we do in a couple months.

[SPEAKER_01]: That is your war of attrition.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you just keep wearing me down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Where I am down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, thanks for being here, DK.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, he's incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: So thrilled for this book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'd love for you to get a copy, support him.

[SPEAKER_00]: You will love it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, again, if you have groups that need speakers, I can't recommend him enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: I will link in podcast now so you can go to darenkinder.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: To find out more, you can buy the book, Barry Meena Dirty Suit, and all the usual spots, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And a huge thank you for listening and being a part of the mesmerized family.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're the very best.