[SPEAKER_00]: This is Cynthia Gannock, and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey friends, welcome to the podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be that mom that's braggie about her parenting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, nobody needs that, but I've got a couple things I feel like I should brag about, and so I'll just stand by for a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the first one.

[SPEAKER_00]: You ready?

[SPEAKER_00]: I made it to meet the teacher.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not a big deal to some of you guys.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're like, if you haven't been around here long and you don't know kind of the history, you're like, okay, yeah, most people do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Most people do.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's correct, but we didn't missed it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Couple years ago, missed it because me the teacher at our schools from seven, forty to eight, forty.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you hearing me?

[SPEAKER_00]: Seven, forty to eight, forty.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm around college kids and high school kids all the time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're going to gather at seven, forty, it's PM.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not in the little elementary school world.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's seven, forty, a.m.

[SPEAKER_00]: is meet the teacher.

[SPEAKER_00]: Totally missed it all together, horrifying.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this year, not only did we get there, we were the first ones there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, seven, thirty, six, we were waiting to get in and they let us in the building and we walked in and everyone's like, hey, JB, all the staff is so happy to see them and [SPEAKER_00]: The fact they all, every single one of them knows in my name is maybe slightly disconcerting.

[SPEAKER_00]: But they were like, Jamie, yay, you're back.

[SPEAKER_00]: You look so much taller, all the things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And we went in and we met that teacher.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually I met a sub because his teacher is all maternity leave.

[SPEAKER_00]: But we met that teacher and we picked the locker and we did all the things.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, we are winning third grade.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you something else.

[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm going to brag, let me share one other thing about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Ready?

[SPEAKER_00]: I already bought a school supplies.

[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you might be like, okay, well, we all buy school supplies now.

[SPEAKER_00]: We don't all buy school supplies because last year, maybe the year before I can't remember.

[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot to order them from the PTA, you know, you pay for them.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't want to go to Walmart and pick out every number two pencil, you just pay the fee and they deliver them and have them in his desk waiting with labels on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the first day school, we walk him in his little class, Mike, and I do, yes, we do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Back to Kate and Brett were with us and they had a little assignment sheet on their little desk and they were supposed to pull out their colors and like do a seeking find or something and he had no colors to pull out Because I then realized I didn't order school supplies the only mom that missed that one and so there we were and we were all horrified my older ones are so judgmental.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're like oh my gosh.

[SPEAKER_00]: How could you forget enough silence everyone?

[SPEAKER_00]: And we were like, J.B.

[SPEAKER_00]: Barwin from a friend.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like the most third child move ever.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I already wrote a school supplies.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so he has him for the share.

[SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready for that?

[SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't started school yet.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's handled.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so proud of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, him too.

[SPEAKER_00]: But me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then one other little sweet note about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Brett worked for company this summer and they do those school supplies for a lot of the schools and Dallas and so Brett all summer would work and they would gather all the supplies, put them in boxes and then go deliver them to the schools.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's probably why I remembered because Brett was involved in it every day, but Brett got to deliver the supplies to JB school and when he [SPEAKER_00]: delivered the third grade supplies to their hall.

[SPEAKER_00]: He prayed over all of them and prayed for JB's grade and JB's class and for JB and his little supplies that he would have a good year.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you even stand that?

[SPEAKER_00]: So precious.

[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I wanted to let you know that we are winning the third grade.

[SPEAKER_00]: What we're not winning is dropping a kid off of college.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care that I've already done it once.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is a whole other ball game and we are leaving.

[SPEAKER_00]: late this week.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to this podcast on the date releases, which is Wednesday, I need you to know you need to stop right now and pause this podcast and say a prayer for me because I am ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Poor Brett, every time we have any conversation or any photo shows up on my phone or anyone mentions like a trip we took when he was ten.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I cry.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's ridiculous.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was going to do better this kid.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not [SPEAKER_00]: And so I need us to be praying for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be taking him at the end of the week and dropping him off.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's time to pull the band aid off.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not winning, not winning on taking freshman to college.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then Kate will be here a little bit longer before she goes back to Austin.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what's going on in the Ganton House.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now.

[SPEAKER_00]: without any further ado, Tony call yours here today, and Tony is so much fun, a friend, and has a new book out called Don't Try This Alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And, woo, she been through a lot the last couple of years.

[SPEAKER_00]: As she kind of says, the beginning of this podcast, like, I'm a different person than last time I was on your show.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she's going to talk a lot about walking through life when the bottom falls out and how important it is to have community around you and just have a Lord works on that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's really, really an amazing conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tony admittedly cried through the last half of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was really sweet and precious and hard and all of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's vulnerable and real.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, um, it's a good conversation for if you're going through something really hard or if you're not and it may be coming down the pike looks different for all of us what that hard is.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this is a good way to frame that and be ready in her books.

[SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.

[SPEAKER_00]: Highly recommend you grab a copy of Don't Try This Loan.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here we go with Tony.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tony, call your welcome to mesmerized.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're back.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're back like we never left, okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm excited about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how many times you've been on this show.

[SPEAKER_00]: Or even on sidetracked with me and Heather McFaddy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've done lots of fun stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm so excited that she are here because we can talk at your neighbor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't try this alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And girl, you've lived some life in the last two years.

[SPEAKER_02]: Shall I?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm different.

[SPEAKER_02]: You hear me?

[SPEAKER_00]: I am.

[SPEAKER_02]: Literally from when we last spoke.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am a different human being.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't smell like ashes.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the cake.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the cake.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want us thinking about, well, let's start here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking about the, as we're taping this, all over the nation's been the cold play story.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know exactly what you're talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know how you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about a trigger.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought about you this morning because I mean, I read a meme or something and y'all have a night what we're talking about this listeners.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the the the the man who was caught having a fair and a cold play.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I saw the memes like we all saw them.

[SPEAKER_00]: What if it was like, thanks for uniting the country.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've all agreed on something for one day or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking about this and how [SPEAKER_00]: People love to jump in on, I don't even know if it's sensationalistic, Tony.

[SPEAKER_00]: If it's just like misery, love's company, I don't know what this whole thing was, but I thought about you and I thought this is probably really hard to watch us go down, but that also thought you just wrote a book speaking into walking a really hard road, similar, and very different yet similar.

[SPEAKER_00]: What would you say to that wife who's walking that right now?

[SPEAKER_00]: And as we speak is probably hidden out somewhere, what would you say to her?

[SPEAKER_02]: That is such an intimate question.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so just a little bit.

[SPEAKER_02]: If it's too intimate, don't.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are you even talking about?

[SPEAKER_02]: On my podcast, literally are like phrase, our catch line is go deeper, go home.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not, there's no different here.

[SPEAKER_02]: No difference here.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, just to give a little context in September of twenty twenty three, I got a call from my now ex husband that he was being extorted.

[SPEAKER_02]: He had cheated and there was a video and all sorts of things and they were going to out him and come to our church and all these things and he had given him all this money.

[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately for him, he had to confess it to me because they were getting ready to send me all the proof and everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this wasn't the first time in our marriage that infidelity was present years, just years and years and years of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I actually posted a thread the other day.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, for those of us that have been cheated on and have endured betrayal and infidelity again and again, especially that clip of the CEO at the Coldplay concert.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's more triggering than it is trendy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's because I know the stories.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've gotten DMs and emails and texts and strangers, people that I know other pastors' wives of this really this sickness that's going on.

[SPEAKER_02]: This pandemic of not being able to be faithful, breaking the covenant again and again, betrayal.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so genuinely, I have been thinking about the wife.

[SPEAKER_02]: And if I had an opportunity to speak with her, [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I think I would say, be as sad as you need to be because that's what I needed to hear, grieve.

[SPEAKER_02]: Especially when you have children, you feel like you shouldn't grieve.

[SPEAKER_02]: You shouldn't be strong for them.

[SPEAKER_02]: You should be what no, be sad with them and for them and for what has happened to your family.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do not allow anyone to rob you of your ability to grieve really, really well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the second thing that I would say that sounds so cliche and I almost kind of hate it, this is not the end of your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: I needed to hear that because when it's all happening and your reality is quite literally being burned to the ground, your schedule, your home dynamic, everything who you talk to every day, who you wake up and kiss, everything is literally changing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it feels like it's ending, but it's really just changing.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's not the end of your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Truly, it is a dramatic change that's happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: And they're really genuinely, I promise you is freedom and peace on the other side.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, as I look at this book you're writing and we talked a little bit before you started recording that a lot of times as authors, we write from Place of Authority, or we walk through something on the other side of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you've written a book in the midst of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't help thinking about [SPEAKER_00]: God willing, not everybody has to walk through a public divorce or infidelity, but you guys, we've all walked through a prodigal kid, a debt that kept growing, a church hurt, a failed business venture, some public failure.

[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe it isn't as public as we feel like it is, but I feel like maybe it's even harder when it's not a public failure because we feel like we're walking around as a fraud.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're speaking into this, like for everybody, for all the places, a heart of messy and gross.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels like to end, you're speaking into this.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so thank you for writing in the midst of the, of the hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about this for a moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: You really hone in on community and the importance of community.

[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to us a little bit about that and how about look to your life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, at the end of the day, it's weird to me that we haven't all figured out that we were designed to be with each other, not in a romantic way.

[SPEAKER_02]: but in a way that completes God's design for us.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we use excuses, valid excuses like I'm an introvert, I'm very nervous, I have social anxiety, I've been hurt before, I don't want to trust again, I've been betrayed, etc.

[SPEAKER_02]: etc.

[SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, we acknowledge and need people for every aspect of our life, but we don't acknowledge it in friendship.

[SPEAKER_02]: So if our tire goes flat and we don't know what we're doing, okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to ask our next door neighbor Mike to help us, okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: Or we call on the AAA people.

[SPEAKER_02]: If we cannot see and read so that we can't learn and have a job, we're going to go to the optometrist.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what they're called to get a person.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and glasses and contacts.

[SPEAKER_02]: We are doing that for our physical bodies.

[SPEAKER_02]: If we want to get fit in the gym, we're like, let me go ahead and get a trainer before I hurt myself out here.

[SPEAKER_02]: We are so okay with needing people for very tangible and practical things.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when it is for community, friendship and connection, we have all the excuses.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the truth is, if we were not designed to do life alone, especially when we're in pain and trauma, [SPEAKER_02]: we definitely are not equipped to handle it all alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so this book is about that.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the truth is, I'm in a cheever.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a recovering people, please, I love to work.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I like, I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm strong.

[SPEAKER_02]: I am capable.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm extremely smart.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've got all the gifts and talents.

[SPEAKER_02]: I do not like to admit when I won't help when I need help.

[SPEAKER_02]: But the truth is, over these past two years, I had no choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I was going to be integral, I needed accountability and I needed my people to do that for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I was going to show up well in the public and be honest about what was going on, I need mentors to guide me along the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I was going to feed my children, I needed people that could watch them for two hours so that I can get myself together to even be presentable in front of them.

[SPEAKER_02]: I needed people in this season and honestly it proved to me that this is something I needed to tell the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I wrote about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, we're, I think we are meant to be sisters, because same way super, super high achieving and, um, and out to a flaw.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's an old, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm like writing myself on not getting sleep.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's a pro.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm over it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I can't, I really can't take another day of me, but yet I keep going.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, um, and people put up with that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: People still show up.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, as you're talking through this, I'm thinking about [SPEAKER_00]: When you go to rely on community, people aren't well traversed and showing up.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the crux of it, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you're like, okay, I'm gonna get out there out of the gumption to reach out there, you know, at the same time, people aren't, their responses can be hard.

[SPEAKER_00]: And your situation, you're dealing with, and like, [SPEAKER_00]: your ex as a pastor, y'all kind of passed her together.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're looking at a whole range of people responding in a whole range of ways, many of which are not healthy.

[SPEAKER_00]: So how many of which, most of which probably has so how do you work through that?

[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that I want to be vulnerable, but I don't know what's coming towards me.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll say two things to this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to affirm that people do say crazy stuff, especially when you're a public figure.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't never forget a DM I got after I posted.

[SPEAKER_02]: a statement.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had a whole board of people helping me lease a whittle, lease a turkers, Joe Saxon, Mark Demos and incredible like legend in the PR space was Billy Graham's PR.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I really wanted to get this right and I wanted to do this well and honor my kids in the process and not give all like the nasty details.

[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_02]: But was actually happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I remember posting that statement and I got a woman that DMed me and said, well, what did you think?

[SPEAKER_02]: What did you expect?

[SPEAKER_02]: Of course your husband's going to cheat on you.

[SPEAKER_02]: You had nanny's living with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that found that helpful.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here's that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: With that said, when you're going through trauma and pain of any kind, what helps you to balance those negative comments is that you have the voices of healthy people in your life, in the reserve.

[SPEAKER_02]: And Cynthia, I had a group of women, six other women that I have been walking with in what we call a confessional community, [SPEAKER_02]: for at that time almost three years.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had built up the reserve of my people because four years ago, I wanted to be intentional about this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I did not want to be caught slipping as the enemy of our souls attacks me and my children and my family.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I've been intentional about community.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just didn't know how bad I would need them in the next two or three years, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: So I think for anyone out there listening and you maybe you're not going through something hard right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now is the time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now is the time to build the army.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now is to have the team be in the reserves when team A needs to tap out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Now is the time to have intentional conversations with your friends that say, hey, I know we're at this space right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Very cordial, very [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're kind of like friends, but not like deep intentional friends, like I love to go deeper with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love to share some of my story with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to hear some of your story.

[SPEAKER_02]: If you're open to that, let's schedule some time to have some deep conversations.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like now is the time to do that so that when tragedy does hit, you have people in the reserve.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: When I will never forget when we were doing foster care, someone that I really looked up to very strong Christian leader in my life.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was one of the hardest times because we were pretty sure a little boy that we had, we've now adopted.

[SPEAKER_00]: We are pretty sure he was leaving.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I went, remember going and I tears my eyes in this particular person said, well, you knew what you were getting into the foster care.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I, and I, and I always said back was just because I knew what I was doing didn't make it easier.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make it easier in the moment.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the thing is these people, myself included, like, we're probably someone's hurt who knows what we've said off the cuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just had a conversation yesterday with someone who said, hey, when you said this to me, I felt reprimanded.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: We lean in.

[SPEAKER_00]: We give space and grace for that too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's it like when someone's walking through this really hard?

[SPEAKER_00]: What's a good response?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like what was helpful to you?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean you're innocent necessarily.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that next layer.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's a good response?

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I talk about this in the book because one time I told a friend that I was having some really hard challenges with my daughter and her behavior in school.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we've since done virtual school now because it's better than in person for her.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, good thing you have a son.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can get a ride on the next go around.

[SPEAKER_02]: I said, ah, yeah, what's up?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what we actually need to hear is, man, that does really suck.

[SPEAKER_02]: So in our congressional community, we have learned the art of witness.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I talk about this a lot in this new book.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just this idea of being present with someone in their pain.

[SPEAKER_02]: And explaining how that pain also impacts you because that makes them feel less alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what has happened is we all want to be the experts.

[SPEAKER_02]: We want to fix and solve and we want to rescue people.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, we're made in the image of God, but we are not Jesus.

[SPEAKER_02]: We are not saviors, but we want that.

[SPEAKER_02]: We want to be people saviors.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think what happens is we move so quickly past the emotions that we're trying to get to the logical practical.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to get you out of the grief.

[SPEAKER_02]: But Cynthia, you know this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've been reading the Bible.

[SPEAKER_02]: We saw the death of Lazarus.

[SPEAKER_02]: We saw that Jesus had intention to resuscitate him.

[SPEAKER_02]: And before he did it, he stopped and cried with Lazarus' sisters.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think even our God honors that when someone is in grief, maybe we don't rush to fixing it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe instead, we rest in the reality that we are people of grief and that we actually have to grieve.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's so good.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and everyone, please be clear.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're not talking out my book.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking out Tony's, but I, you said that it made me think of something I wrote about in my book that and come out yet, but when Dorcus died, all the widows.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, all that, all the widows are around and we're holding up the things that she had generously given the clothes.

[SPEAKER_00]: showing evidences of her generosity.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking about that, and I wrote about it in the book, like, what's the evidence of our generosity in words?

[SPEAKER_00]: If we were to die in someone's pleading for a prophet or the Lord himself to raise us, like, what is the evidence of our generosity?

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, people come and say, like, this is the close she gave us.

[SPEAKER_00]: These are the kind words she spoke of me.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is the care she gave my kid.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think about that a lot, that story of just what is the evidence of our kindness?

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it were so quickly to want to throw money, something which is great, we should give generously.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think wherever it might be, but the kindness so often seems to start with our words, our responses, our guardiness and our words, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's our presence.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's actually our presence and it is enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think we want so badly again to relieve people of the pain that's happening in their life that we just, we still the presence, the moment where it's like, I'm with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry this is happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: When you said that, it really made me feel sad with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can understand that pain.

[SPEAKER_02]: They hear some moments in my life, what I felt like that too, so I get it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just going to sit with you, sit here with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in our counseling group, we have this phrase when you're ready and not before.

[SPEAKER_02]: you ready and not before we can talk about some options and we can talk about next steps but I want you to be ready for that right now I just want to honor the the in-between space of the grief and the heavy until it's just here and I can't tell you how many people I called my best friend Erin over I mean almost every week probably for like six months after I found out that I needed to end my marriage um I remember being at the USPS post office in my car and I just called her and I just turned it crying [SPEAKER_02]: And she didn't even say anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: I literally am just remembering that moment.

[SPEAKER_02]: She didn't say, what can I do?

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm on the way.

[SPEAKER_02]: Where are you?

[SPEAKER_02]: She was like, I know.

[SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can.

[SPEAKER_00]: Should we pray?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or should we make a joke and move on?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to live.

[SPEAKER_02]: If the tears come, I'm letting them suckers fall.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to know that I'm here and practicing the presence of it, the witness.

[SPEAKER_00]: See, I'm learning it.

[SPEAKER_00]: As we go.

[SPEAKER_02]: Look at you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at me.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's over the inner webs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: OK.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk shame for a minute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Darn.

[SPEAKER_00]: to favor shame, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big fan of shame over here in my own life.

[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to really promote it for some reason amongst myself.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, living, and I'm joking, obviously.

[SPEAKER_00]: But that living in shame, whatever the thing is, we can have shame on big levels.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can have shame on small levels.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can have shame over what we ate or whether or not we exercise or what size our pants are or how our dog behaves and people come in or what our college or kid got in.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shame is so powerful.

[SPEAKER_00]: What do we do?

[SPEAKER_02]: I literally say shame is an identity attacker and you and I have both heard this phrase.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think even Heather says it too like guilt says I've done something bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: Shame says I am bad is literally an identity attacker because at the end of the day we are not perfect right so we've got to start with that foundation like [SPEAKER_02]: We will do and say things that are wrong and mean and bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: We curse word may slip out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like I stopped cursing when I was twenty five and every now and again I be like, you know, like, calm down.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've recently decided not to drink anymore.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't have any self control.

[SPEAKER_02]: I just can't.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's not working.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm a mocktail mommy.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a part of the sober community and I don't feel ashamed of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can accept guilt that maybe there's been a couple of nights where we had one too many wine glasses, but I'm not ashamed of that because the truth is I've been hurting and I've been fighting to heal well and every now and again I'll get it wrong.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will drink a little too much wine and embarrass myself and not be the leader that I need to be and from that place my job is not to go into a tiny hole in and hide it's to say where's my accountability?

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be better than this to voice who I actually want to be and then to get back up again and keep going and believing that there's a God who has forgiven me for every wrong turn [SPEAKER_02]: And I just think, I mean, here's the other thing I will say.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have been ashamed.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I have any more shame in me because all my business have been on the internet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you can Google it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've also seen shame to my whole family apart.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as I've been on this forgiveness journey, because at first it was very difficult for me to forgive my ex.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'm running him over.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is what it is.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I really had to allow the Holy Spirit to do a work in the other matter of fact.

[SPEAKER_02]: You can't see it.

[SPEAKER_02]: on the right side of me if you're listening to this is the book for giving what you can't forget.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually restarting it because I need more of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: In my best days, I really am sorrowful for my ex-husband because of the shame.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's too ashamed to just tell the truth that it's in a sexual addiction for years, that he has allowed [SPEAKER_02]: sexual addiction to drive his decisions and to break our covenant again and again and again that he should not be pastoring and still is because he didn't put an accurate or great board in place to hold him accountable.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's too ashamed.

[SPEAKER_02]: There's something there that's driving him away from real freedom and it's him.

[SPEAKER_02]: It has a name.

[SPEAKER_02]: And the best thing that we can do to defeat shame is to recognize that we have a savior who's not the author of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to step.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go back for a second on the fact that you decided you were not, you were going to stop drinking.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, if you listen to this podcast, you know, I'm not a drinker.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't have any problem with anyone who does drink, but I just have never been a drinker because there's so much alcoholism in my family that I just felt like I drank enough diet coke for a nation.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Tony, come on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I have a problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you turn that into something with alcohol, look out people.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have no personality.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can go down the hill, but anything.

[SPEAKER_02]: The next thing you know, I'm on meth.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't do nothing.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just I'm going to, you know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: It goes literally for working out too much to meth.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know where we're going to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Tony and I.

But I love that you, you took, there's, you have power over that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can just say like, I'm going to stop.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not going to drink because I know my personality.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's something that's not really what we're talking about in this thing that I think so that's a word for somebody because I feel it's so easy to fill the shame and to feel like nothing I can do it's just who I am I'm a workaholic I'm I don't know whatever you know it's an eating thing it's a workout thing a workaholic thing I mean you can think of a thousand things that it can be and I love that [SPEAKER_00]: that you found freedom and stepping out of that and you knew you had the power to do that and it reminds me of just the gospel of how people want to point the gospel so limiting and that it's all these rules and Jesus saying I'm offering you freedom from the things that don't bring abundant lives.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would just wonder what your word would be to someone who just feels like they're fighting something over and over and over and over again.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what did it take?

[SPEAKER_00]: Did the Holy Spirit light on you?

[SPEAKER_00]: What did it take to say?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not going to drink anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it well.

[SPEAKER_02]: Don't you worry.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tie this conversation.

[SPEAKER_02]: This part of the conversation back into our conversation about bringing in time because it wasn't just me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember when I initially went started walking through the divorce.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was terrible.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was so sick.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wasn't eating.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't sleeping.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was throwing up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was just, I lost twenty pounds in two weeks.

[SPEAKER_02]: I looked like a little crackhead.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was not good at all.

[SPEAKER_02]: And at first, I wasn't drinking.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then, because I wasn't sleeping, I was like, OK, I'm just going to have a little wine, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, someone got me a housewarming gift gift.

[SPEAKER_02]: So we moved my kids to a new house.

[SPEAKER_02]: Someone got me a little wine.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, I love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: A little wine slipped a little better than night.

[SPEAKER_02]: If we're going to be honest, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Next night, I'm having two glasses.

[SPEAKER_02]: Let me just see how long we can actually sleep and keep this party up.

[SPEAKER_02]: Next thing you know, I'm ordering bottles of wine with every grocery order and now I got, you know, a bottle of glass and one of my hand every single night.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I, in my praying in the mornings during my quiet time, I started feeling conviction.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, his reverse was kind of chill.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then it kind of started growing and I felt that conviction and I literally wrote in my journal, like Lord, if this is something that you're calling me away from, tell me.

[SPEAKER_02]: The next day, I get a text message from my friend Deborah Fileta.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she says, I know we don't know each other very well.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm almost hesitant to say this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I literally have the text still.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I just wanted to reach out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I even made a post about it actually.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to reach out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I saw it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: That the Holy Spirit has led me [SPEAKER_02]: to tell you to be careful with alcohol.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_02]: And, and I just confessed everything.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like Deborah, literally, I wish I had my journal with me to show you that I've literally been processing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like it was Lord, I asked him for clarity and that clarity came through you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this, my friends, is why you don't do life alone, why you leave your heart and your mind and your whole life.

[SPEAKER_02]: open so that people have the opportunity to come and help you be better.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: Be better.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she would text me and she, hey, how's it going?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was very honest.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, because that's also what happens when you have friends that don't leave the room, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because you, you, because shame festers when someone shames you for what you've said or done, but my friend ever, when she checked in, I literally told her like, hey, I actually had like a drink the other night because I was [SPEAKER_02]: It was a gallon of times and I was like, oh, let me give you a little drink, but then I felt nauseous.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, or the little must really not want me to drink.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, that's okay.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want you to start asking questions like, why am I choosing to drink?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it because I want to be social and I want to fit in?

[SPEAKER_02]: Is it because I want to knock the edge off of some sadness?

[SPEAKER_02]: She walked with me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And what's crazy is that I started drinking again a year later and was like, okay, I feel like I'm healthy enough to start again and to do it with boundaries.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I wasn't.

[SPEAKER_02]: Then I had to be honest with myself and say, Tony, you don't have self control in this area.

[SPEAKER_02]: You will not make good decisions doing this.

[SPEAKER_02]: Stop, just cut it completely out.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cut it off.

[SPEAKER_02]: What the Bible saved?

[SPEAKER_02]: My hand saved, we just cut it off.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay?

[SPEAKER_02]: How did it all?

[SPEAKER_02]: Whole hand off.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think that's just a strong word for whatever your thing is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think even about groups I've been in where it has not, like gossip has been a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I've known, I've had, like, I can't go on that girl's trip anymore.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm gonna jump in on whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, whatever they're about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can make fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can make fun of somebody very well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I want to do that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Me too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, just to replace my life where I just, yeah, I felt like I've needed to back out of that and having that community around you and I love that it's someone you weren't even that close to that the Lord was using to reaffirm, which is also word for like, listen, when you're chasing at the Lord and he gives you these nudgings or, you know, to say something to someone, that's not how to always be.

[SPEAKER_00]: Herge was not in the form of condemnation, but it's always have to be a, hey, watch that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's just a, hey, how are you?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or, hey, you know, can I do a book of the Bible with you?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if the Lord's pushing you towards someone like, [SPEAKER_02]: be receptive to that lean yeah yeah okay let's talk about I have a couple of things I want to ask you out one we just real quick you've mentioned confessional community talk to us about what that what that means to you and how do you want to I had to do a whole chapter on it in the book because I know I knew people would be like what are you even talking about and I don't want to confess to anybody long story short Dr.

Kurt Thompson has been actually doing confessional communities for years and he's been putting strangers together in rooms to practice withness with each other [SPEAKER_02]: Well, my friend Jessica Hanager reached out at four years ago now, and was like, hey, I want to start one of these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: Dr.

Kurt was her psychiatrist, and she was like, let's do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And let's do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: So she started calling all of us, all of her friends, would you want to do this?

[SPEAKER_02]: Would you want to do this?

[SPEAKER_02]: This is what it's going to look like.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to meet every single month for three hours.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have an annual retreat.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just was like, yes, I want that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Within the confessional community, essentially what we do, especially on those three hour calls, is we ask the question, [SPEAKER_02]: or questions, what are you grieving and what are you longing for?

[SPEAKER_02]: And we just kind of start with that, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then we confess things.

[SPEAKER_02]: What have we done wrong?

[SPEAKER_02]: Some of us have gone off on our kids a little bit too harshly, spoke to our husband in the wrong way, road rage, let some curse words slip out, a few too many drinks we're had, hello somebody.

[SPEAKER_02]: We confess those things to each other in this safe environment.

[SPEAKER_02]: Not because the Zoom call is safe, because we didn't all go with Zoom calls and somebody didn't pop down that was supposed to be because the people are safe.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's beautiful and anyone can start it.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I have like an eight week course that I do with women.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually transition this course group live course group into a confessional community of their own.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I got to tell you Cynthia, I have two groups that have transitioned into confessional communities.

[SPEAKER_02]: and it is beautiful.

[SPEAKER_02]: We had an unexpected death in the our last community group and their confessional community, many of them went to the funeral with a person they'd never met in person.

[SPEAKER_02]: They had just been on Zoom calls and I just can't imagine when the daughter of the woman who passed away looked up and these women who were strangers but so near and dear to her mama, what up for her?

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine the narrative that she now has that, oh, females actually can really be kind.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she is.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to do one of those.

[SPEAKER_02]: That sounds incredible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know you signed up it.

[SPEAKER_00]: You would love it.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_00]: It truly is.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you did something on social media that I screenshot it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I'm going to remember this because you, when this is book was coming out, you basically said, I need help.

[SPEAKER_00]: And here's how you can help it right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, yeah, I don't, I can't, I can't let this book, but can't bomb basically.

[SPEAKER_00]: You said better than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but this book, yeah, bomb.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was disappointed in the results of an earlier book.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know which one because I think all your stuff is great.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like everyone's read all your stuff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't imagine, but um, and you're like, here's specifically how you can help me and you were like, you list out these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, have me under podcasts invite me to zoom with your book club.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like you went through all these things.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome because as a girl who's about to put out her second book, like I'm already sweating over here because I have to ask for endorsements.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, nothing you [SPEAKER_02]: Anything like to procrastinate so hard on endorsements.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I don't want people to have to think they're time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't want them to say no.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though I know it's normal, say no because then I don't want my feelings be hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: Although I know there's not a reason because people are busy.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's easier to not put yourself out there and ask to just be like, you know what?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to assume we're all great friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I won't think otherwise when people won't take time.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not what it's about in general.

[SPEAKER_00]: But what I loved [SPEAKER_00]: about you doing that as you just put yourself out there and you're like here's the things I need and I'm asking you to step up and I thought [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, like, that's something, like, immediately, I think the same day I got to something from your publicism, like, that, I can do for you.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can have you on a podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can, um, I can talk after book the day at release.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can, so, um, I don't even know what I necessarily have a question other than I would just say, could you encourage us, like, be verbal about what you need?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we want people to step in, but they don't know how to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what was that, what did someone say to you, like, hey, you should consider?

[SPEAKER_00]: Or you just, like, I don't care, I got nothing to lose on putting it out.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what did that look like?

[SPEAKER_02]: Gosh.

[SPEAKER_02]: I hated every minute of it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Can we just be just start there?

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't want anyone to think that this was just the easiest thing in the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm honest, after I posted it, I was some grief hit because it reminded me that [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing a lot by myself now.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not married.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a single mama.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got two kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm managing fifty-level million schedules.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still on the road teaching preaching.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've got a living, nanny, which is the only way I can do my job.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she's a foreign exchange student.

[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm supporting her.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm supporting my kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was on the phone with my mom and dad the other week.

[SPEAKER_02]: Last week.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I literally was crying.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is the hardest I've ever worked in my whole life.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, just grind to my mom and daddy.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I don't have a choice.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I really cannot do this alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I am alone.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's the reality.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have friends, obviously.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm alone in the things that I'm not supposed to be alone in.

[SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't supposed to get a divorce.

[SPEAKER_02]: My marriage was not supposed to end up not God honoring.

[SPEAKER_02]: I fought for it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was supposed to have a husband to have helped me raise my kids while putting out this book.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's the reality.

[SPEAKER_02]: And in order to feel less alone, I have to do the brave thing and invite people into help me.

[SPEAKER_02]: And there are moments and I don't want to discredit this where you actually don't have the words.

[SPEAKER_02]: When I moved to my new house, I just didn't, all of my savings were wiped out.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had to pay for a lawyer to protect me because my ex has been one of me, decided in DA, and then some sort of just confidentiality agreement, all these things about what he'd done, and so I was just paying for this retainer.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I had some friends like, okay, so what are we doing about the furniture in your house?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, so upset because I can't afford to buy new furniture.

[SPEAKER_02]: And my counselor was like, what would you rather, would you rather a house that is lavished or a house that's loved?

[SPEAKER_02]: Let your people love you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I walk around my house right now, Cynthia, like, my dresser was given to me by my confessional community.

[SPEAKER_02]: My bed was given to me by my friend, Jen, who does in real estate.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she just had an extra bed.

[SPEAKER_02]: My side tables are from Deborah, Florida, and they're a reminder that I don't need wine to go to sleep at night.

[SPEAKER_02]: instead of why I got my Bible on my end tables.

[SPEAKER_02]: I got, you know, the mirror was given me by Lisa Whittle because she's like, I know you're gonna wanna look at yourself in the mirror and be all cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, my daughter's bedroom is bought by Jackie Hill Perry.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we walk around and we see the fruit and the product of what it is like to just be brave enough to ask for help.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I just can't imagine if I wouldn't have asked.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I would have let myself fail because of my pride.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want my children to grow up with a mom who's too prideful to ask for help.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's what it is pride.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we just gotta defeat it, y'all.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We do.

[SPEAKER_00]: And whether, yeah, whether you need furniture, or you need counseling, or whatever it is to be able, that's the word is ask for help.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then be the help.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be the people that are willing to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Last thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was struck by something here, but just talking out how God's using imperfect stories.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember on social media seeing you, you said something to the effect of, and I'm sure it's happened a lot, but you said that you were asked to not do a speaking engagement right after some things came down.

[SPEAKER_00]: Everything kind of came out in public about the divorce, and you had lost some speaking engagements, but I don't know, at least one you referenced.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember, oh yeah, a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: I remember thinking through that being like, wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to, this is going to take some processing too.

[SPEAKER_00]: As you walk walk through this.

[SPEAKER_00]: But now you're seeing little by little how God is using imperfect stories.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I just wonder how you might encourage those who are walking it with, like you have in the past kids that are difficult.

[SPEAKER_00]: And emotional things that are hard with our kids or our marriages or our finances, whatever the things are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how have you seen that God will use those stories?

[SPEAKER_00]: He's faithful.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm already crying.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm here for a little too.

[SPEAKER_02]: I remember the day that I had to tow my daughter.

[SPEAKER_02]: She had already walked with me through my first divorce.

[SPEAKER_02]: Her dad was just a piece of very verbally abusive and then they started turning physical and ended up leaving.

[SPEAKER_02]: And now I think even when I asked myself the question that [SPEAKER_02]: Why did I stay so long with all the cheating?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's really a lot of it was my daughter.

[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want her to have to experience divorce again.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so we were sitting in our old house and I pulled up two chairs by the back screen door and I just told her I said, I am divorcing Mr.

Sam.

[SPEAKER_02]: He has not been honest about a lot of things.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's done some really hurtful things and he is not very repentant.

[SPEAKER_02]: He's not sorry.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so our life is gonna look different over the next couple of years.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we're gonna move, which I just really didn't wanna leave my house.

[SPEAKER_02]: I had like painted walls, you know, like really thought this is where we would grow older.

[SPEAKER_02]: And she leans over to me and she puts her hand on my shoulder and she said, it's okay, Mom, I'm here for you.

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, which no nine year old, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Should even have to be there for their mama like that, you know?

[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I was grateful for that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we moved and our whole lives changed.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we have new community.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're at a new gym, like all of these things have changed.

[SPEAKER_02]: And a couple of months ago, we were driving into our neighborhood and it's so pretty right now because everything's so green.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, I love our neighborhood and the suburbs.

[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'm so glad we're here.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're so close to her best friend.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm close to her dad now.

[SPEAKER_02]: And he's gotten a lot of help and changed his whole life.

[SPEAKER_02]: And my daughter doing goes, well, I know these past couple of years have been a little hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then she whispers.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I kind of feel like our life is better.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like she was afraid to say that it was better because she knew how painful it had been.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's just redemption.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's redemption.

[SPEAKER_02]: When it's been so painful and you can see the purpose [SPEAKER_02]: You can feel that your kids can see it.

[SPEAKER_02]: God has rewritten our whole story.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it has been a refining.

[SPEAKER_02]: Things have burned to the ground.

[SPEAKER_02]: I have lost so much, so much.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen the goodness of God in the land of the living.

[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen it through me at my career, my ministry, my children.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's not worth it.

[SPEAKER_02]: The pain is not worth it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to say that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I want to affirm that and someone's hard story.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it will not be wasted.

[SPEAKER_02]: God will let it.

[SPEAKER_02]: He has a plan for our pain and he will not waste it on you.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that's yeah, we've just missed it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've missed it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a firm believer.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a firm believer that if you can't see it or feel it or believe it for yourself, borrow it from someone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like in my life I've done that a lot where I'm like, I feel like I can't trust God in this situation, but I'm gonna go find someone in the Bible.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna borrow their faith in a situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of us, Tony, call your her borrowed your faith through this and just watched.

[SPEAKER_00]: and observed and prayed and just beg the Lord to do mighty and merciful things for you and to see it go from a point where we're like okay we're losing speaking opportunities and that's not a pride thing that's just a financial thing at some point and not to mention the message the Lord's given you like it deserves it deserves it always got toward deserves to be heard and so anyway I just you know [SPEAKER_00]: Tony, so the real deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to ask you listeners to buy this book because I think it is necessary for all of us, but I think you know somebody needs to read it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So buy yourself a copy and then you're going to buy a copy for someone else.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're just going to throw it on their desk or whatever and I want to be some awkward conversation.

[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing is, I was thinking this is a great opportunity to do like a book club with a bunch of girls like get people together.

[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you think, Tony?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like watch yes.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's so many good questions.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just think this is a great place if you're trying to get community.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you are walking through hard digging, if you're not walking through hard yet, hey, it probably is coming.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry to say, we've all felt it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, the great way to remind yourself to build community and use the book as a tool to do that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, let's send it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: The book is called, don't try this alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: How to build deeper community when you want to hide from your pain.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can find Tony everywhere.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not following her, you need to be doing that.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then she has other books, brave enough to be broken and broken, crayons still colors the children's book.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just so cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: people love your kids book it's a great book and then um your podcast is called broken crayons so color right it's called the still color in podcast you see what we did you know you know still color by the boom by the bank [SPEAKER_00]: And you might need to add a still to it after the last couple years.

[SPEAKER_00]: She can still still coloring.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we might need to put two stills.

[SPEAKER_02]: Cause it feels like I'm actually, I may actually use that because we've got a new season going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm just saying Tony, call your, but you don't have to look at me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, thanks for being the real deal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for sharing your heart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for all that you do.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're big fans praying over you, praying over this book that Lord will use at Mighty Ways and thanks for.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, fun conversation with Tony, appreciate her being so real and authentic with us.

[SPEAKER_00]: And check out her book, Don't Try This Alone.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then remember to be praying for me the next few days as I drop off Brett and his spatula.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know what I'm talking about, the new mist, the podcast from last week, I need to go back and listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: Also, would you share this show with a friend, someone that would enjoy it, help us continue to grow the audience.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a left review, I would love for you to do that too.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks you guys so much for all that you do for supporting this and for being a part of the mesmerized family.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're the best.