Ryan Zook [00:00:00]:
This episode of the Men of Iron Podcast has been sponsored by Garmin Builders. Garmin Builders sets the standard in home construction. With more than 50 years of expertise, Garmin Builders has been building homes, communities, and connections that positively impact the lives of others. By blending tradition with innovative building science, Garmin delivers a better built, more efficient home. Discover the edge@garminbuilders.com thanks again to Garmin Builders for sponsoring this episode of the Men of Iron podcast.

Curt Seaburg [00:00:27]:
It was like lightning in a bottle for us. It was at the right time. We needed that in the fabric of who we were as a church at that time, too. And I'll ever be grateful for the impact that that had on our church.

Ryan Zook [00:00:42]:
Hey, welcome back to the Men of Iron Podcast. At Men of Iron, we want you to thrive in your core five. That is your faith, family, friends, fitness, and finances. We have all kinds of resources that can help you on that journey. If you could use some help in one of those areas, check out the links and our description, we'd be happy to help you. This week, we are joined by Pastor Kurt Seberg, who was actually involved very early on in Men of Irons history. So as we start to tell some of the stories over our 20 year history, this is definitely a guy we're excited to talk to. So welcome Pastor Kurt. Thanks for being here.

Kurt Seberg [00:01:14]:
Wow. Thank you, Ryan. You just said 20 years. I'm like, has it really been that long?

Ryan Zook [00:01:18]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:01:18]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:01:19]:
So next year2026 will be our 20th year. I have this. I have this picture on a flyer that I hand out to people a lot. You're in the picture of the 10 guys, 10 mentors, and 10 proteges on the stage. It's got like, the Victory Church logo is probably. I'm sure a very old Victor Church.

Kurt Seberg [00:01:40]:
Would have been back 20 years ago. Same hairstyle.

Ryan Zook [00:01:43]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, there's only so much you can do.

Kurt Seberg [00:01:46]:
That is so true.

Ryan Zook [00:01:48]:
It's been 20 years, and you're big part of that history. So I'm excited to hear your story.

Kurt Seberg [00:01:54]:
Yeah, well, thank you very much. It was interesting when I got invited to be on this. It's really an honor to be here with you guys. Ryan, thank you so much for the invitation. When I had received that invitation, I thought, you know what, what do I have in my files from Men of Iron? So I went back and pulled up because I was trying to rack my brain and think, when did Men of Iron start? And went back and I found 2006. So I went back. That was the earliest that I had. And there was a message that I'd given to all the mentors and all the proteges. It would have been the first one that we ever gave. Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:02:26]:
So that was like launch day.

Kurt Seberg [00:02:28]:
Yeah, that would have been launch day.

Ryan Zook [00:02:29]:
Wow.

Kurt Seberg [00:02:30]:
Yep.

Ryan Zook [00:02:31]:
So what was the message? What'd you preach about?

Kurt Seberg [00:02:32]:
I've actually got it in my notes. It's in my backpack. But just talked about on that day. Let's see just what your assignment was going to be, what this whole thing was going to be like. Talked about mentoring. There's misconceptions on what mentoring is. And so I talked about that. You know, you think it's this, you know, magical thing to where you're really going to connect and it's going to take a lot of hard work.

Ryan Zook [00:02:54]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:02:55]:
And so we laid a lot of that foundation back with that message. And I, I'm almost positive we were at Brian Zimmer's home and Heather's home when we launched that. Yeah, that very first one.

Ryan Zook [00:03:09]:
That's really cool.

Kurt Seberg [00:03:10]:
Yeah. So it was super special.

Ryan Zook [00:03:12]:
What led up to that? Like, what came into place, what got to a place where we're like, hey, we're launching some mentors as a church.

Kurt Seberg [00:03:18]:
We were going through a time as a church. We were a young church. How way back? 20. Well, would have been back in. And, oh, it would have been, oh, 5 or 06. I think this, this portion of it probably would have been back in the very beginning of 06, where we were really, you know, we're, we're young. Everybody's pretty excited, you know, about whatever. I mean, we just want to take the world. Right. And Brian had come and Brian had shared that he really had this heart and this desire that men would rise to a biblical standard of manhood. And we were like, let's run with that. And so Brian being Brian comes back with his whole presentation. And I can remember, I can still see it's very prominent in my mind. We're sitting in our little itty bitty conference room in our brand new building there over in Greenfield, location where our church, the broadcast location is still located and sitting in there. And Brian's got this whole PowerPoint. Now, you might have to explain to your viewers what PowerPoint is, but a whole PowerPoint presentation about men of iron and why we needed to have a mentoring ministry for the guys of the church. And one of the things that stood out and mentoring is we were in student ministry for 17 years before stepping into the role of lead pastor at Victory. And so we understood Mentoring and the importance that. That plays in a person's life, both the mentor and the protege.

Ryan Zook [00:04:42]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:04:42]:
And so that wasn't. That wasn't new or earth shattering to me, but what was. He had one line in there. I don't even know if he still has this presentation. He had this one line in there that what they wanted to do is they wanted it to go to every church and wanted to go around the nation. And I'm like, yes, what. How is that going to happen? But that always stuck. Stuck with me, you know, that it was. This was the impetus of something that was really going to be impactful. Yeah. Around the nation and. Yeah, so we started it. It was. It was fresh, it was small, it was. Yeah. Brand new, like you said. And we launched it, had those 10 guys, and then it just grew from there, you know, and we had more and more guys showing up to our church. Guys wanted to be a part of this whole thing. I think one of the things that really made Men of Iron so impactful in our church in those early days, I would say this over and over again. It was the leader. Yeah. It was Brian. Yeah, he had the heart for it. You know, he had the desire for it. And I was. I was totally supportive in what he was wanting to do, but he was the drive, you know, And I think that when you see things that are successful, you've got somebody who's driving that, somebody who's pushing that whole thing. We can have all kinds of ideas and we can say, hey, this is something that we really want to do. And you look like you could lead that, you know, Ryan. But if they don't have the heart, if they don't have the passion and if they don't have the intentionality to want to move forward in that, it's going to be maybe mediocre at best. I mean, they'll do the best job that they possibly can, but when somebody has a heart for it and their heart beats for it. Yeah, it's different. It's different at that point. And that's what it was for us. It was very monumental for us. So, again, we had a lot of guys coming out, a lot of young guys coming out. We had a lot of older guys. They were like, hey, I don't even know what in the world to do with my life, you know? And we're like, you could be a mentor. We think you might be able to be a mentor. And so it was giving those older guys that purpose, you know, and it was giving younger guys somebody to Talk to somebody that they could have conversation with. They say that when you graduate from college, you know, your friendship sphere reduces drastically down to, like, three or four people in your life. And most guys don't have a close friend, somebody they feel like they can talk to. So we had a lot of young guys that are feeling that. And like, yes, I. I've got a young family or I've got a young business. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know who to talk to. And there's a lot of guys that are like, I've got all of this wisdom, I've got this knowledge. I don't really know what I'm going to do with it except keep telling my adult kids how they need to behave themselves and things like. And so it gave both of them a real purpose and a real direction where one another could learn and be helped from the other one. And so, yeah, it was just light. It was like lightning in a bottle for us. It was at the right time. We needed that in the fabric of who we were as a church at that time, too. And I'll ever be grateful for the impact that that had on our church. And it ran a great course for us, I think, over 10 years. I think it was 11 years that we ended up with Men of Iron and then just struggled to find that leader interesting to really take it over, to really to run with it, and then moved into more of a ministry of groups in our church and things like that. And so, yeah, so that was the beginnings of it.

Ryan Zook [00:08:15]:
So with it being like a big part of those 10 years, what did you see? Like, what did it do for you as the pastor, as the leader of the church? Like, what. What kind of differences? You see that, where you're like, oh, man, if we didn't have Men of Iron, I'm not sure that we would have had that.

Kurt Seberg [00:08:30]:
Yeah, one of the great thing that we had that supported Men of Iron in our community was there's a ministry going on at a local church called Men's Fraternity.

Ryan Zook [00:08:39]:
Okay. Yep.

Kurt Seberg [00:08:40]:
And so a lot of the guys were familiar with it. So there was a. It was a large group of guys that would gather together. So there was a stoking of that fire within a lot of guys anyway. And Men's Fraternity really brought in a lot of the business guys. And so it wasn't so much, you know, just the regular Christian guy, you know, with a lot of young guys that wanted to step out in business. Some of the older guys that were very Successful. And so there was a buzz in our business community. And so when Men of Iron came on the scene and really became. It became more focused on the individual, you know, with. With men's frat, it was. You're sitting with hundreds and hundreds of guys, right? And it was very impactful to look around and see all of these guys, you know, and to realize throughout the week, man, there's probably guys I'm crossing paths with that are a part of this. It just was having a big impact in our community. It was a real move of God during that time. But one of the things that Men of Iron did is it brought it down to that. That. That cellular level of just like, mano a mano, you know, like guy on guy, like wrestling, you know, it's just. It's just me and that other guy across the table, and he's showing up with his agenda, and you're just showing up and you're just speaking encouraging back in the Lord. And so the benefits that we saw from it in those early years especially was the involvement of men in our church. So we had a lot of guys. I don't think we were untypical like any other church. I mean, you have a kids ministry where most of the time there's a lot of ladies out there, you know, God bless our ladies, man. Love our ladies. I love you, mom. You know, but there was. There was a lack of real, like, guys being there and being a part Men of Iron really, like, our guys far outnumbered our ladies in our. Our kids ministry. Not our student with our teenagers, but in our kids ministry. On Sunday morning, you'd walk down the hallway, Ryan, and, like, guys were all over the place teaching kids, and. And you're hearing about what they're doing, how they're teaching things at home as well. And we're getting a lot of reports from wives saying, thank you so much for giving my husband a place to be able to talk, my husband a safe place to be able to share with some things, whether it's brokenness or whatever, or even just advice as far as it's whatever the protege wanted, you know, they'd show up with the agenda, and some of them wouldn't. So it was another lesson of them that they needed to learn. No, this is still a thing too, by the way. That's still a real. It is a thing. A thing. Yeah. Real time. We just had a guy talking about this a few weeks back, was talking to me about. About me mentoring him. Yeah. And I'm like, listen, it's not Going to be like, just me just making your day really wonderful. Yeah. Like you're gonna have to come with some stuff that you want to work on. And he's like, oh, okay. Then all of a sudden, like, he didn't know if you want to do that anymore, you know, so. But that's really what Men of Iron was for us. It was like. I don't want to say it was a man's. Man's ministry. Sure. Because it was very soft. It was very vulnerable. It was very, very intentional. But it was dudes doing life together, you know, and not being afraid to call one another out. And some guys would rise to the occasion and some would. We have had some guys leave the church.

Ryan Zook [00:12:11]:
No kidding.

Kurt Seberg [00:12:11]:
Yeah. Because they didn't like to be called out. Now, I would not. Not for me, for the pulpit or anything like that. Good grief. You never use the pulpit as a whipping post. Never anything like that. But other guys in the church trying to call them up to be better men in their homes and.

Ryan Zook [00:12:25]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:12:25]:
And better. And they thought that that's what they wanted until they started getting it. And they're like, no, we're going to move around.

Ryan Zook [00:12:31]:
We're going to go to a different church.

Kurt Seberg [00:12:32]:
Yep. So we did have things like that. We had some guys, you know, would give some pushback. But I think you get that in whatever you're doing. Not Everybody is always 100% whatever you're doing.

Ryan Zook [00:12:44]:
Right.

Kurt Seberg [00:12:45]:
But yeah, so the impact. We really saw the most impact in our kids ministry.

Ryan Zook [00:12:52]:
That's incredible because that's, that's very unique to have an issue where there's too many men involved in your kids ministry.

Kurt Seberg [00:12:59]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:12:59]:
There's probably a lot of pastors be like, man, I'd love to have that issue.

Kurt Seberg [00:13:02]:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But again, it was just these bunch of guys that were just. They were all. They were hearing the same thing. So they're all. They're dialing in to a very intentional relationship and they're hearing that they need to get involved. You need to give your life to something that counts, something that's bigger than you. They're hearing things like that. And there were opportunity. We made opportunities at our church for guys to get involved and we talked about it, that this is bigger than you. You've got an opportunity to leave a legacy here. And so guys are hearing that in their one on one time and, and mentoring and then they're. They're hearing that in the church and they're. And there's a space for them to get involved and they step into it.

Ryan Zook [00:13:50]:
That's cool.

Kurt Seberg [00:13:51]:
Yeah. So that. That was really the biggest thing that stands out in my mind for it was that.

Ryan Zook [00:13:57]:
So when it. When it started off. So it's 2006, you're launching groups. Did you serve as a mentor or were you just kind of.

Kurt Seberg [00:14:03]:
Oh, no. So you.

Ryan Zook [00:14:04]:
Did you personally.

Kurt Seberg [00:14:05]:
Oh, yeah, I did.

Ryan Zook [00:14:06]:
And do you remember that your. Your protege. And do you remember, like, what that relationship was like? I'm definitely putting you on the spot. I'm sorry.

Kurt Seberg [00:14:12]:
100%. 100%. Yeah. So I had. During that time. Let me think back. So it was 10 years. I'm saying I probably had. I probably have eight. I probably had eight protege.

Ryan Zook [00:14:28]:
No kidding.

Kurt Seberg [00:14:29]:
That time.

Ryan Zook [00:14:29]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:14:30]:
Yep. So, yeah, the very first one, it was crazy because we sat down together and we're just launching this thing. Right. It was brand new, and we're pumped about it, and we're sitting down, and I can remember I was sitting across from him for breakfast. We thought, let's get together. It's early in the morning, both of us before work, and so we sit down for breakfast. And I had never even met this guy before.

Ryan Zook [00:14:51]:
No kidding.

Kurt Seberg [00:14:52]:
And so he sits down, he introduces himself to me. I said, man, so good. So, so good to meet you. So, like, what's going on? He says, well, I'm just letting you know right up front, I have a pornography issue, and I need some help with this first day. And I'm like, first. First three minutes. And I'm like, holy cow, this is going to be amazing. And so, yeah, that's how first one started out. I mean, he was. But he was primed and ready, man. I mean, he just. He knew it was going to be a good place. He knew it was going to be a safe space, and so he opened up that fast.

Ryan Zook [00:15:23]:
That's cool.

Kurt Seberg [00:15:24]:
And we worked together and we prayed together, and we were in God's word together. There were assignments that, you know, I would work with him on and stuff like that, and praise God, Lord, set him free from it. And to my knowledge, he has not been back in it. I know that they're no longer in the church. They moved away to a different state. But the time that he was in the church, there was never any issue before they moved out of town.

Ryan Zook [00:15:50]:
Wow.

Kurt Seberg [00:15:51]:
And so, yeah, it was just phenomenal. But that was our very first one. You want to talk about getting thrown in the fire right away.

Ryan Zook [00:15:56]:
What's interesting is it's not super unique because usually when men see that there's an opportunity like oh, you're actually going to help me.

Kurt Seberg [00:16:03]:
Great. Here's.

Ryan Zook [00:16:03]:
Here's what it is.

Kurt Seberg [00:16:04]:
Yep.

Ryan Zook [00:16:05]:
I was in a. I was in a group a couple nights ago. We were talking about how men in large groups kind of like, hold back a little bit. Like, it's, hey, I'll.

Kurt Seberg [00:16:13]:
I'll.

Ryan Zook [00:16:14]:
I'll be here. But you're only going to get this much of me.

Kurt Seberg [00:16:15]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:16:16]:
And it seems like, at least from our experience, like, one on one is where you start to get like, you know, this is actually an issue. Like, can we talk about this? Can you help me fix this?

Kurt Seberg [00:16:23]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:16:24]:
I don't. I don't know why that is, but it. It seems to be how it works.

Kurt Seberg [00:16:28]:
Yeah. I don't think men. Men talk about things like this unless they feel safe. Yeah. You know, if they're. If they feel safe, they feel like, okay, finally I can pull off the mask and I can say, well, this is really how things are going in my life.

Ryan Zook [00:16:42]:
Let's work on this. Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:16:44]:
I mean, we would do groups in our home, and we just did a young marriage group not so long ago. And it's kind of funny, you know, they'll sit down together and talk to the guys because we'd split them up, you know, do guys and girls. But you're talking to guys. And first week, man, things are awesome. Things couldn't be going better. Second week, it's had a great week this week, third week comes along, and you had a great week, but did have a little bit of an issue. Then all of a sudden, week six, there's just vulnerability. You know, they just feel safe. They feel that. And I think that's an important thing. Just we as mentors, is that we realize what we're. What we're actually doing and what we're holding in our hands. And what the Lord has given to us, he has given to us an opportunity to speak into another man's life where they're going to be very, very vulnerable. And so, Lord, guard my mouth. Guard the things that I say. Help everything that I say be seasoned with salt and for healing. And I want my words to be your words in this situation, because you are dealing. You're not only dealing with a man that oftentimes has a lot of wounds. You're dealing with that same guy is a father that is maybe pushing that stuff down into his kids or he's projecting that onto his wife as well. You have an opportunity to impact entire family when you get involved in the life of another individual like that.

Ryan Zook [00:18:07]:
Yeah, we talk all the time. About how when you invest well in one man, it always. The investment always goes beyond that man.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:12]:
Oh, yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:18:13]:
Because it's his marriage, it's his kids, it's his community, it's his job.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:16]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:18:16]:
And if we can. I mean, we say we exist to change a culture one man at a time. If we can actually change that one man, we can make a radical difference.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:22]:
That's exactly right.

Ryan Zook [00:18:23]:
Just keep changing.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:24]:
Yep.

Ryan Zook [00:18:25]:
More and more guys.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:26]:
Yep.

Ryan Zook [00:18:26]:
I'm curious over your eight proteges, if you want to put them all in the. The PC, which was my favorite. No, no, no.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:34]:
His name was.

Ryan Zook [00:18:37]:
What. What are some of the things you would say were super common, things you would have worked through?

Kurt Seberg [00:18:42]:
Yeah. Guys feeling like they weren't good enough for them. Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:18:46]:
Yep.

Kurt Seberg [00:18:47]:
I am. I was amazed by that. That was the common denominator. In love with their wife, but feeling like they weren't enough. And so they would pour themselves into work. They would pour themselves into a male. A.

Ryan Zook [00:19:03]:
Sure.

Kurt Seberg [00:19:03]:
An exaggerated male Persona. Yeah. And because they wanted to be looked at by their wives as always being that guy. Yeah. That was the biggest thing. That's a great question. Yeah, that's a great question. You'd also hear, you know, guys would also talk about. It was all around family. The biggest thing was around family. Now, I didn't have many guys. Maybe it was because they all knew that I was the pastor, obviously.

Ryan Zook [00:19:30]:
Yeah, I'm sure.

Kurt Seberg [00:19:31]:
And so they're like, oh, my word, I'm with him, you know. Yeah. Why do I have to be with the pastor? You know, just be quiet. The Lord told us, here's what. And so that's what Brian would say. We prayed over these things and he would, you know, and they just went. Who they went to. But like, business questions didn't come up a whole lot, you know, because again, that's not my area of real expertise. Some of the other guys had businesses. Yeah. I'm sure that they would have worked with those guys in situations like that. But for me, it was more of the family issues. I'm not enough guys being beaten down. Words that were spoken over them, you know, labels that were given to them, opinions that were shared about them when they were younger, had just made the 18 inch journey from their ear to their heart and got rooted in them and now became their identity, you know. And how do I get back to being who I should be in Christ? What. What does that look like to be in Christ? What does it look like to be a new creation? And so those were a Lot of the conversations that we would have, and again, they weren't difficult. I mean, somebody can be sitting there and be thinking, you know, if somebody shows up to me and says, right out of the gate, man, I got a pornography issue. I don't even know what to do. I don't know what to say. It's like, they didn't teach me this in mentor training. Maybe some of the mentor training do teach things like that, but you can always. It's always good to say, you know what? I can get back to you on that kind of a thing. Some of the guys are going to jump in and they're going to be really open and vulnerable like that. Some of the guys could take a little bit longer, but they would show up with their agenda, and they would show up with the things that they wanted to talk about. And really, as the mentor, you just. You shared yourself. There were some times, Ryan, where they would say something, and I'm like, I've got no context for that.

Ryan Zook [00:21:19]:
Yeah, yeah. Which is fine.

Kurt Seberg [00:21:21]:
Yeah, it is fine.

Ryan Zook [00:21:22]:
I'm not going to pretend to know how to solve that. I don't know.

Kurt Seberg [00:21:25]:
Exactly. Exactly. And so, yeah, just being yourself in those situations, too, I think helps a lot.

Ryan Zook [00:21:31]:
What kind of change did you experience in your own life as a mentor? Because we hear from guys a lot like, hey, it really helps the protege, but it really helps the mentor.

Kurt Seberg [00:21:40]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:21:41]:
What. What happened to you through that time?

Kurt Seberg [00:21:43]:
I think there was a couple of things that happened. I think as they were sharing some of their. Their weaknesses and some of the areas. And some of the. Some of the proteges that had. Were older than me.

Ryan Zook [00:21:55]:
That's cool.

Kurt Seberg [00:21:56]:
You know, so it wasn't just a bunch of young guys. Yeah. That I was meant. I was sharing my life with. So having these older guys share things with me, other traps, things, areas where they messed up really put me on notice, you know, to be able to say, I don't want that in my life. And if this was the path that they were taking, I'm going to stay away from that path. And so it helped me in that way. It helped me as a man in that way. It helped me as a pastor in just realizing, you know, not everybody wants to go shoot a deer. You know, some people really do want to fix computers. Maybe the same guy wants to do both, but, like, help me to understand there is a wide breadth of manhood that's out there and that every man has a story. And so when I'm up there preaching, I think I became a little Bit more now, as I look back, in retrospect, I think I was becoming a little bit more tender. That didn't happen right up front. You know, up front, you're kind of like, hey, you know, this is. This is the way it's going, and this is the way it is. And. But as the years go by, you realize, wow, there are real men with real hurts, real issues. God, what does your word have to say about that? So knowing that that was the audience, because we came from student ministry.

Ryan Zook [00:23:17]:
Sure.

Kurt Seberg [00:23:18]:
Come on, Ryan. You know what I'm talking about. And we were 17 years as youth pastors, and so we're showing up and telling adults, hey, this is how you do things, just like we would do in student ministry. But realizing that adults, they're just. They've got life, you know, and life has beaten them down. And there's. There's a tenderness. If you would just take some time and slow down and if you would set the pace. There is a tenderness that guys want to step into, that guys want. Guys want to be vulnerable. They don't walk around. They don't walk in the door by saying, hey, I want to be vulnerable. You set the table. You set the environment for it. And it's amazing what the Lord can do, the healing that can happen when you're getting together with another individual.

Ryan Zook [00:24:05]:
I'm gonna. I'm gonna pivot you. So you've been a pastor here in Lancaster county for a long time. You have. You know, Victory Church has grown pretty significantly. What. What are you seeing in men today? Like, what are the. What are the challenges facing men? What are the issues you're seeing with men in your church? Yeah, just for our audience, like, for the benefit of them.

Kurt Seberg [00:24:25]:
Yeah. Men still want to make an impact.

Ryan Zook [00:24:27]:
Oh, yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:24:30]:
Men are still hungry to want to learn. Men want friendship. Men long for friendship. Real friendship.

Ryan Zook [00:24:39]:
Friendship. Just on a note, like, when we talk to guys about faith, family, friends, fitness, and finances, friendship is always universally the one. Any group, anywhere, they'll be like, oh, yeah, I don't really have any friends.

Kurt Seberg [00:24:51]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:24:51]:
Yeah, I don't know what that looks like.

Kurt Seberg [00:24:53]:
That's exactly right. Yeah, they. They do. They want to have somebody that they can just share life with, and they want to have people that. And I just had this conversation with somebody very, very dear to me, a young man, and he's just. He's hungry to want to learn. He's hungry for another man to invest into his life. So we still see that. And so I've taken that time to be able to invest in his life, but. But he has to drive it. I mean, it's the same thing. Yeah. There were so many things that we learned in those early years in Men of Iron that we still operate in today. Even just the one on one. It's not a program that we have going on at our church. But there's still the things that you learned you still do in your one on one time with guys. And so guys are still hungry, but things haven't changed. We've just gotten older. That's all it is to it. You know, guys are still hungry, guys are still desiring. They still want to be the best in their home. They want to be. They want to be admired by their wife, they want to be. They want to be looked up to by their children. But yet how do I fight against all of these vices that culture is just pummeling me with? How do I stand firm in all of this? And really, like Paul says, stand firm and act like a man. They still want to learn how to do that, but not in a puffed out chest way. And I think years ago, that's what we kind of thought like a real man was, you know. Yeah, he's the guy who's going to be puffed up, you know, and he's going to probably have tats all over him. And no problem with tattoos and stuff. But we kind of had that idea that that was the individual. Well, you can, you can be strong and stand firm internally. You don't have to look a certain way or act a certain way. You know, Paul says, stand firm, act like a man. You know, so it's still relevant for today.

Ryan Zook [00:26:48]:
Yeah, I appreciate it, man. Anything else that you would just encourage our audience with? As we come to a close here.

Kurt Seberg [00:26:55]:
I think one of the biggest things is that it's going to take time.

Ryan Zook [00:26:59]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:26:59]:
You know, even my first one, you know, where the guy opens up and shares what he shared, really took me back. We were Panera Bread and just took me back for a second. It's not always going to be that way.

Ryan Zook [00:27:12]:
Right.

Kurt Seberg [00:27:13]:
You know, but even once that thing was out of the bag, then we had to figure out, okay, well, how do we navigate through all of this? I think to understand for the mentor that it's going to take time.

Ryan Zook [00:27:24]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:27:24]:
It's not about your ability. It really is about your availability. People want to connect with you.

Ryan Zook [00:27:30]:
Yeah.

Kurt Seberg [00:27:31]:
You know, and so make yourself available. But realize it's not going to be a light switch thing. It's not going to be once you're done with this. 8 week, 24 week, 52 week. Whatever the length is of the program that you're running or whatever you're doing there. It's not like everything is going to be all fine and dandy. When it's all done, you're going to want to come back to this the next year, that relationship, the year after that. Keep checking in on them. Just don't meet with a guy, then check them off the box and move on to something else. Is going to take an investment of your time and of your life to do it. But the results, what it does for you as a mentor is. Yeah, it's huge. I don't. It's hard to put. It's hard to put words around it. I think about right now even just the guys on our staff. You know, we have a large staff at our church and just the guys in our staff that are hungry for mentors and, and wanting. Wanting to them to spend time with them, you know, as young men. Help me in my marriage, help me in my, my family. Help me in my work. I wasn't taught a work ethic by my father. You know, teach me what a work ethic is. It takes time. Be willing to go into this and saying, you know what? This is something I'm giving my life to, and it's not me. You don't have to say, I'm giving my life to be a mentor. But really, you are. We are called to make disciples of other people. Everybody is. It was a Christ follower. So as. As a mentor, you are making a disciple. You're helping somebody take a next step on their journey in the Lord Jesus Christ with their faith. And so you're in it for the long haul. Take your time and be blessed when you're in it.

Ryan Zook [00:29:22]:
I appreciate it, Pastor Kirk. Thank you. I think about you. You were sharing the story earlier about 20 years ago, and we have that picture of, I guess you and nine other guys. Right. It was a really small intentional beginning for men of iron.

Kurt Seberg [00:29:35]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:29:36]:
For a mission that we're continuing to pursue, I think about, like, lastly, last week I was speaking down in Pinellas County, Florida, and we had a room full of people that are from churches that have been running men of iron in their churches.

Kurt Seberg [00:29:49]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:29:49]:
And I think about, like I actually, actually talked about, hey, we launched at Victory Church in Lancaster County 20 years ago, and we showed the picture on the screen.

Kurt Seberg [00:29:57]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:29:58]:
And it's just really cool to think about how much impact God has had on so many men at this point. Thousands of men across the country. It's just cool to be able to sit down and talk to you about what that beginning was like.

Kurt Seberg [00:30:11]:
Yeah.

Ryan Zook [00:30:12]:
What you've seen, what your experiences were like. And here's some of your wisdom from today. So I appreciate your time with us, man. Thank you.

Kurt Seberg [00:30:16]:
You? You bet. You know, and if I just encourage pastors out there, There are guys like Brian Ziemers in your congregation. Don't shut them down. Let them dream. Let them dream big. And even when they put stuff up in the PowerPoint, you're like, what? What do you mean? Around the whole nation? I didn't say that out loud, mind you. I never would have said that out loud, but I wasn't expecting that. And then just feed it. Whatever's growing, feed it, feed it. And so that if that can encourage a pastor, all the great ideas, I promise you, they're not going to come from you, Pastor. They're going to come from the people in your congregation. I tapped out in my ideas years ago. So, yeah, God's got people in your congregation that have gifts, that have callings. Do whatever you can to equip them for what the Lord's got for you. And they may be with you for a long time, they may be with you for a short time. Whatever. You just be obedient and equip them.

Ryan Zook [00:31:12]:
That's awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks for your perspective on this, and thanks for supporting Men of Iron all those years ago. Appreciate it.

Kurt Seberg [00:31:18]:
Oh, man. Love you guys.

Ryan Zook [00:31:19]:
Thanks for listening to the Men of Iron podcast. Be sure to, like, subscribe and share at Men of Iron. We exist to change a culture one.

Kurt Seberg [00:31:26]:
Man at a time, and we'd love.

Ryan Zook [00:31:27]:
To have you partner with us. So go to menaviron. Org to see how you can get involved, or donate@menaviron.org donate.