Lori: Hello and welcome to Fine Is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is Heather Wyatt. Welcome to the show.

Heather: Hi, welcome. Thank you for having me.

Lori: My pleasure. So Heather and I originally met through a networking group, Success Champions. Networking, think, is how we met, right?

Heather: It is how we met the first time and we've just stayed connected.

Lori: Yes, yes, although we haven't met in person yet. That will be coming sometime, I'm sure. So.

Heather: You know, forget that when we know, I feel like I know you so well, I forget we haven't met in person.

Lori: Yeah, it's so crazy. then, right. And then when you finally do meet in person, it's like, wait, I feel like I already know you. And then it just, it makes the connection even better. But one of the things Heather and I have in common is that we started Nomad Journey kind of around the same time. How long have you been doing it?

Heather: Well, I set out to Costa Rica initially October 2023. That was the start of me full time traveling. Yeah.

Lori: Yeah, that's when I left my apartment in Northern Virginia, same month. So yeah, so we've been on these parallel journeys, although Heather is still on her nomad journey. And we're going to get to that a little bit more. You know, everybody who's my regular listeners know I have parked myself in Charlotte, North Carolina now and stopped nomading, but you're still at it. And I want to get to that. But first I want to ask you, what were the values and beliefs that you were raised with that contributed to who you've become?

Heather: You know, people actually ask me some of that and I think the biggest thing, there are a few things. So when I was a kid, we moved around a lot. I had a single mom and we moved around a lot just for financial reasons. And so that was normal to me. I always admired my friends who had like their childhood home and we always lived in an apartment and they had this house and the mom and dad and I thought that was so cool to be friends with them because they have like a normal family and I loved that but that being said it was very normal for me to move around all the time and I think now as a grown-up it's ingrained in me and I'm bored being in one place for too long

Now I look back and I see people I went to high school with taking their kids to the same schools they went to. Their teachers are the people we went to high school with and that is honestly my worst nightmare. I don't want to do any of that.

Lori: I am with you. I agree. I see a lot of the same thing and I'm like, well, how could you not? How could you still be there?

Heather: Yes, that's how I see it. And the other thing is I have like this family even now, you know, it's they just stay in the house. They don't do things. They family get togethers. People just visit in the house and that's it. And I don't like that. It's just I need to go see different things, do new things. It's I guess for me, it's about having new experiences. That's something I really value.

Lori: Yeah. How long have you, how long did you stay in one place? Like what's the longest you've been in one place? Yeah.

Heather: Maybe four years, because I definitely went to high school in one place. I might have had an apartment for five years. And I know I think that was still hovering around four because then felt so lucky. I'm like, I gotta go.

Lori: Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And then, so then when you go, are you, you're not just moving apartments. Like when you were living with your mom, were you moving different states or was it all within New Jersey?

Heather: It was mostly in New Jersey. I was born in Pennsylvania, actually. That's a fun fact people don't know. Then we went to Jersey. My mom actually tried to move us to Texas in first grade and she hated it. She said, there's no grass, it's all concrete, there's nowhere for kids to play and moved us back to New Jersey. So it's kind of ironic that now I'm like, I love Texas. Maybe Texas was supposed to be a part of me.

Lori: Hmm. Okay. And do you have any siblings?

Heather: I do. I have a brother and a sister.

Lori: Okay, and so yeah, so are you all still, well, still, I don't know if you ever were, are you a tight-knit family? Are they nomads as well?

Heather: I wouldn't say they're nomads, but my brother was in the military, so he moved around a lot for that. I was always the outsider to be quite honest. I was the oldest in my family. So I was the one that could stay home alone while my brother and sister would have to go to the babysitter. My mom saved money not sending me to the sitter. So it worked out great. Then when I was old enough to take care of them, it was I was the one in charge. So I couldn't wait to run away from them because I had to babysit them. I want to go play with my friends. So I think I was definitely always the outsider of my family and wanting to just go be anywhere else because I had so much responsibility.

Lori: Yeah, okay. And then so once you started on your own journey as an adult, where did you, where have you roamed to?

Heather: You know, as an adult, I moved out as soon as I turned 18. So I got my own apartment, but I didn't go too far. I was still in Northern New Jersey. and I was probably until I was 30, but I didn't go on my first international trip until I was like, 28 maybe? Maybe 30 even. I don't know. Somewhere around there. But I was dating someone and we had a trip planned. We ended up breaking up and I did the thing. I'm going anyway. I'm going by myself. I remember having a customer when I was bartending tell me, it's my birthday. I'm going to Turks and Caicos. I was like, cool. And the natural question is with who? Because I thought you take trips with people.

And he was like, no, I'm going by myself. It's my birthday. I'm doing what I want. And to me, that idea was so cool. I was like, why isn't that allowed? Of course it's allowed. And so that was the first time I was like, I'm doing this trip. I'm doing it by myself. And I fell in love with solo traveling.

Lori: That is so interesting and it's a really, it's a key point in this conversation that you don't know what you don't know. And you know, so if you're, if you have no idea that solo travel could be a thing, you would never do it. And once you're introduced to it, you're like, oh, I could do that.

Heather: Yeah, and it's amazing. And since then I found I always have to defend myself to other people. They're like, why aren't you going with people by yourself? I know I don't have to say this to you, but solo travel is amazing. Like you're just on your own time. You explore what you want to. You don't have to ask somebody else what they want to eat, when they want to eat. If you want to eat chips for dinner, you can because you're an adult and can do what you want.

Lori: Yes, yes, absolutely. Have you ever felt in your solo travel that you, that it would have been nice to have somebody else to experience with?

Heather: I don’t feel that often, sometimes. Yeah, I really don't get that feeling because for me, it's more work to people than it is not to. Like it takes much more energy from me and I'm getting better about that. I'm getting better about doing things with other people and it feeling normal. But especially before I was so, it too independent where it was challenging for me to do things.

I've gone on a couple girl group trips, I've traveled with another friend before, and it was very challenging for me to share space and be on someone else's time. Now I'm getting better, but that's also because I'm getting more ready to be around people more and share more of my space, and now I'm enjoying it more.

Lori: What have you done to prepare yourself for that?

Heather: I don’t think I’ve intentionally done anything, along my own personal journey, I think I'm getting more patient and I'm willing to... It's not give. I'm willing to compromise just a little bit, not a lot, but enough.

Where I'm able to bend to do things I want to do around others because I'm still a very selfish person. I am very selfish and I don't want to change that. I enjoy worrying about me. But I'm getting to where because I am craving the connection with other people to just be a little bit more open-minded and flexible and not so rigid.

Lori: Yeah, I think that comes with, I don't know if the right word is maturity, possibly, with experience maybe.

Heather: Yeah, it could be that. It could be that even like with like foods is a big one. Like I like to, I prefer to eat gluten free. I'm better eating gluten free and not eating certain things, but I compromise on that a little bit because I don't want to be the annoying person out. That's like, I can't eat this. can't eat that because honestly I do think that's not fun to be around. I don't want to change my plans for someone else because they can't have something. So I don't want to be that person. So it's just being adaptable.

And like that goes with traveling to other countries too. I will never forget. had like, there was a place they serve black coffee. You can have milk and sugar in it if you want. And this woman is like, but do they have matcha? Do they have cappuccinos? No, no they don't. Order your coffee. You get milk or sugar. That's it.

And I learned to drink my coffee black, so I don't have any of those issues, but it's just being adaptable. And it sounds like that touched something for you too.

Lori: Yeah. Yeah, that's such a good word, adaptable. And I think so many people could benefit from traveling outside their own sphere, out, you know, whether it's outside of the country, that would be even better, or just outside of their, area where they grew up, to have those different experiences and to see that not everybody lives the same way that we live or that you live or that they live, whatever it is.

I'm rereading for the, I don't even know, fifth, sixth, I've read it several times, but the book is called Infinite Possibilities. It's one of my all time favorite books by Mike Dooley. And in it, he mentions how we, however many billion people there are in the world, I don't remember what the number is, and I'm gonna say something and it's gonna be completely like 30 billion people. I don't know how many, what is it? How many billion people there are?

But that's how many realities there are. Every single person has their own perspective. They were raised with their own, you know, in a certain way with, so they have their own beliefs, their own experiences, their own perceptions. And everybody thinks that everybody else thinks like they do. And yet there are these 30 billion different realities. And whenever somebody says, well, this is just reality. That's your reality. That doesn't mean it applies to anyone else in the entire universe.

Heather: Yeah, and I have a phrase I always say things and I say in my world because it is my world. It's my world. It might not be like that in your world.

That’s so important - traveling or not - I think traveling helps with this because you do see other perspectives and I think that's really enjoyable to do some people are so close-minded and know this is how it goes that's it. Why does it have to be like that and why is it affecting you if let's say I don't believe that it don't argue with me about it it doesn't matter.

Lori: Yeah, that's such a great way to look at it and ask that question. Like you could ask that question in any situation, right?

Heather: Mm-hmm. You can, yeah.

Lori: And have you applied it to other things like when you're looking at, I don't know, different aspects of your life, different options?

Heather: Well, I notice it a lot in like the work I'm doing. I always ask people what that means to them because I might think that means something, but, and I hate words like good or bad. I want something like, I ask people, what kind of venue would you like your retreat at? just something nice. Well, what does that mean to you? I think this is nice. I don't know if you would think it's nice.

But can you just explain that a little bit to me? So I always try to say inquisitive and just ask what people mean by that.

Lori: Yeah, I think that's a big key factor in understanding other people. know, asking more in-depth questions to clarify. Like you said, what does that mean to you?

Heather: Yeah, I agree.

Lori: What, since the show is called Fine Is a 4-Letter Word. Talk to me about the time in your life where you said everything was fine and it wasn't fine.

Heather: You know, I guess the biggest one is before I went on this journey and like, you don't just go from living a great little life, you know, with the beautiful apartment and, you know, no worries about bills, making good money, but I didn't like that life. I was just done. People think like you just make this decision to sell all your stuff and go move to Costa Rica.

You don't do that because your life is awesome where it is. And I forget what people say. People say people that do these kinds of things, they're either searching for something or I forget what it is. I completely forget. Yeah, something like that. And it might be a search for something or it's just what else is out there. I know like this, what people are telling me is successful. Isn't it for me. It's not making me happy.

So yeah, I have all the things, I have the stuff, you know, the typical stories, but I'm still very empty. This is not what I want to do. Like, what's the point of this? Having money and a good credit score if you're not content. And so every time I went to visit Costa Rica, I wanted to live there. So I'm like, why can't I just do it?

And you know, I was surrounded by a million amazing people who really made me believe in myself, whether it was a good idea or not, but I fully believed, yes, I can do all of these things. And yeah, I'm still doing it. Does that mean it's easy? It's not along the way, but it's definitely worth it. I would make the decision again and again.

Lori: Hmm. It's, it sounds like it was, you know, your soul was calling you to explore what, how it could grow and what else you could do with your life.

Heather: Yeah, definitely. And even now, I still have a lot of other people portraying their insecurities on me. Well, and they'll say, I thought you were moving to Costa Rica forever. You said that. I didn't say that. I said, I'm going there. I know nothing is forever. You assumed that. Well, when are you going to get an apartment and just settle down? I don't know. Well, what are you doing next? I'm not sure.

People are just like so baffled and confused and it's not super comfortable for me all the time because I'm a planner but I'm getting used to it and I do enjoy it. It's like getting comfortable with the unknown and you know when you have a business there's a lot of that. So I've been told a million times when you're building a business you actually meet yourself and there are things you have to confront like bad habits and are your goals in alignment with what you're trying to do?

It's interesting. So none of it is separate. It's all one. And I definitely think my growth as a person is helping shape the business I'm trying to create and all of these experiences.

Lori: Yes, 100%. It's so interesting to see other people's insecurities coming out and being thrown at you and trying to put on you. Well, right, right, because I got asked a lot of the times the same thing. How long are you gonna do this for? I don't know, until I don't do it anymore. And people are so, like you said, they're so baffled by this because it's such a foreign concept.

It makes them so uncomfortable that they start feeling uncomfortable for you, but you don't feel uncomfortable. I mean, like you said, it is a little bit, because we talked about this in the pre-show call, there is a level of uncomfortability in that uncertainty. Like you don't always know where you're gonna be next and that can be uncomfortable and yet you manage it.

Heather: I think even I've adopted this mindset even things and when things aren't going well or things aren't going right I do strongly believe it's part of where what I need to go through to get where I'm going So being mindful in that I always talk about this. I kind of step back. I watch my life like it's a movie and No, interesting movie is just perfect all the time. That's the most boring movie ever you need drama and you need some problems, so I kind of take a step back, I'm like, what's gonna happen at this part? Like, why did this part have to happen to get to the good part? And now I'm so, I'm along in this journey. I think I'm getting to like where the movie starts getting good and you see why things have been happening. So that's fun for me. It keeps things very interesting.

Lori: Yes, to be curious about what's coming next. What else is going to happen? That is so cool. I love that perspective. And I love the whole looking at it as if it's a movie and you're right. There is no Hollywood movie. The formula for Hollywood success is the protagonist has to go through some kind of challenge and come out changed.

Heather: Yeah, yep, that's exactly it. You have to have all of these things. So any interests that come in, is that gonna be it? Or is there gonna be a problem with that? How about this? There's a problem here. How are we gonna fix that? How are we gonna get out of it? And it's really cool to play with, but the even cooler thing is we're writing it also. So the choices we make are influencing all of this.

So keeping that in mind, it's really cool to see you really can write your own story no matter what anybody's belief is. There are other things out there influencing it. Yeah, I think that is part of it, but we do have a say and a choice in what we're doing.

Lori: Yeah, I want to step back for a second because I heard you say something, I don't recall exactly what it was about being good or bad or like labeling experiences. And I think that puts judgment on them. It's not necessarily good or bad. Like it just is. And you don't know where it's leading, right? Like somebody could say, that was a terrible experience or that was a terrible thing that happened.

But it leads to something amazing. So then how do you label that thing terrible?

Heather: Yeah, yeah, that's a really valid point. It's just like there are times, so because I'm in the retreat space and I'm around a lot of conscious minded people, a lot of coaches, I don't always speak in perfectly positive words because no matter how much words have power, I'm gonna speak how I feel because sometimes things do suck.

It's allowed to say they suck. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it's hard and that's okay. And you get through it. I fully think it's okay to embrace those human aspects. And it's not bad. It's just hard. It's challenging, but it will also be temporary.

Lori: Yes, and you just brought up a really good point and it's about how you feel and that the feelings are valid regardless of what they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good point. And I was gonna say something else and now I forgot, but it will come back.

Yeah. How did you get into the retreat space? So you've been through a lot of career iterations. Because I know you, you bartended, I've had some guests in the past who talked about having a bartending, you know, being bartenders. In fact, Gabe Lullo talked about his mom sending him and his sister to bartending school as a requirement.

Like she required them to go to bartending school because she said, as long as you know how to bartend, you'll always be able to make money. And so, you know, he now runs a really successful, amazing company called Alleyoop, but you know, bartending had a significant factor, a significant piece in his life. And so I know you did that too.

Heather: Yes, so I definitely agree with that because I used to think bartending wasn't a real job. I always used to say I wanted a real job, like a grown-up job I would say, but then I found out how much money those grown-up jobs were making. I'm like, I can't go make that kind of money. I need the money I'm making now as a bartender. It was more, yeah, grown-up with real bills. How do people live on that?

Lori: Which was more, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heather: But it's like now that I look back and one of my customers gave me a book called everything I learned, I know about leadership I learned from bartending. And that was the first time I started seeing all of these skills that we actually have. And I knew I have them, but I would be able to articulate them to other people. I mean, you have amazing people skills when you're a bartender. And in my businesses now, I'm seeing how valuable that is.

I can talk to anybody. One of the biggest compliments I've ever received was somebody told me they can take me to the fanciest dinner and I will go and be able to make conversation with anyone, or I can go sit on the floor in a village in Africa and be able to hang out with everyone and make conversation. And I thought that was a great compliment because it's true.

So from bartending, well, I like the money I was making. It's a tough life. It's exhausting when it's, you're relying on the bills. It's challenging. There's no social life when you're working weekends. So COVID happened like for many of us and changed a lot of our careers. The whole world changed. And at that point it was, I was not a bartender. I was a sanitizer. I was a to-go person. We had to work outside. Just the whole industry changed. So that's when I got into health coaching.

Health coach, I always cared about like, you know, health and wellness and all of that personally. So health coaching got me to learn the business side of things, which was really great. For me, I felt, and this is no judgment against other health coaches, I felt health coaching is a good way to go nowhere fast unless you're graduating to business coaching or something else. There's a lot that goes into having a coaching business, like having your own podcast, being an author, being a speaker.

And I didn't want to do any of those things to be quite honest. So I created these events that kind of blended wellness and my bartending hospitality background. And we still do these, they're wellness parties. We serve mocktails and do a whole appetizer spread with some gluten-free and vegan options, smoothie demo and an introduction to sound healing. So that was great because great, here's an event. I sell it.

That's cold calling people skills and I'm executing the event. And for me, doing that is basically bartending. I am serving people food and drinks, but I get to talk about wellness. And from there, when I decided to move to Costa Rica, I pivoted to retreats. Even that, it's retreats are just a little mini wellness party, just a longer timeframe.

So people kind of look at them as all separate things and separate industries, but they're all definitely connected and utilize the same skills.

Lori: That's one of the things that when you look back and anybody looks back on their life, you can see the through line, even if it doesn't initially appear that the pieces are connected. Yeah, you said something earlier too that I wanna pull out and that was that it was about knowing yourself and that the health coaching and the other aspects that went with being successful in health coaching didn't appeal to you. And so you have to know yourself to know, “I don't want to do that part of it. Maybe this isn't exactly the right place for me. Where do I pivot?”

Heather: Yes, I totally agree with that. Even now, I will tell you, like, I like doing the events behind the scenes, the retreats, it's all the planning, all the stuff. There's a lot of relationships with venues and all of that kind of stuff, but I don't wanna be front and center. I don't wanna build a community to bring these people to. And there are people who do love to be the center of attention. They have massive amounts of knowledge to teach, and I don't wanna do that.

So it's great because I’m confident enough to see the value that I have in my role in what it is. I'm good at this. You don't want to do this. I don't want to do what you do. So it works out really well. And going into this having my own business, I always said I'm not going to do anything I don't want to do. If it doesn't feel good, I'm not doing it. I'll go get a regular job with the regular paycheck if I want to hate my job.

So I'm very aware of that. And sometimes it means saying, I don't care if you think that's right, I'm doing it my way because this is how I want to do it. And it might take me longer, but it's right for me. And go ahead.

Lori: Do you feel like you have to pull up some courage to do that? Or does that just come naturally to you? Because standing up for yourself a lot of times requires courage.

Heather: You know, it does. But I still have a battle with it. So anytime I have to speak up for myself or there's a lot of like talking to myself because I don't want people saying I'm too bitchy, which happens a lot. Sorry for, I don't know if we can say that. You know, when you're a woman, you can be labeled that way if you're assertive, if you stand up for yourself, but I'm me, no one else is looking out for me. So I have to be very vocal sometimes.

Lori: You could absolutely say that.

Heather : And so I'm always walking that fine line. How do I do this? I like to say having a little more finesse with my words. How to do it with more finesse. So I'm just stating my point clearly and not just being aggressive and nasty. But definitely, even when it comes for standing up for yourself, it's having the courage and I still feel the things. I still feel all the awkward feelings, but I go through it anyway because it feels right.

And once you're used to doing that, you know it's right. So it still like stings a little bit, but I think you have to do it.

Lori: Totally agree. it reminds me of something I saw recently on one of the social platforms, probably LinkedIn, from Sarah Blakely, the founder of Spanx and now Sneaks. I love her. She's awesome. But she was talking about confidence versus courage. Like people say that they're not confident enough to do something, so they don't do it. But it's not about having the confidence.

It's about having the courage to do it anyway, even if you don't feel confident.

Heather: And even taking it a step further, courage isn't having fear, it's having the fear but doing it anyway, which is also, I definitely relate to that. Like, yeah, it's scary sometimes, but you know, do it anyway. Like I do feel those things. So I'm like, I'm LinkedIn, I try to include in my content all of like, not the negative things, I don't want people to hear I'm complaining, but I try to be very vocal about.

You know, it's not glamorous all the time. It's not that I'm lucky. It's that I have these normal human feelings and I make the choice to do them anyway and do these things. And you can do it too, which is ultimately my message. Yeah, anybody can do anything.

Lori: Yeah, I love that. That's a great place to end this conversation. But before we do that, two more questions. One, what is the song that you listen to when you need an extra boost of energy? And I know you're gonna have a different answer than anybody else has ever had on this show.

Heather: Yeah, because you know what, and this is due to like my past and working in so many places, I'm really boring with music and I don't really have my own taste in music. Like it's like I turn things on for other people, not for my own enjoyment. So I'm really boring with music. I don't have like my go-to songs or anything. And I'm a really strange person in that I appreciate quiet when I have, when I can that resets me and rejuvenates me.

Lori: Okay, I totally love and respect that. And then lastly, Heather, if someone wants to continue a conversation with you, where's the best place for them to find you?

Heather: I would say LinkedIn is an absolutely great place. I'm there every single day, all of the time. I'm on Instagram also at underscore Heather Wyatt. And I'm sure you'll have some links as well where people can reach out to me.

Lori: I definitely will have links in the show notes to all of your socials. So thank you so much for joining me today for this wonderful conversation on Fine Is a 4-Letter Word.

Heather: Yes, thank you. This was great.