Of Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

Hey It's unpaid bill check out singer songwriter Linda Perry.

She talks about her musical beginnings with four non blonds and how she creates chart topping hits for stars like A Dell and Pink.

Originally released November twenty eighth, twenty.

Eighteen, It is Supremo so So Supremo roll Call, Suprema so Some Supremo roll call, Suprema Sun Son Supremo roll call, Subprema Sun Sun Supremo.

Roll call, What's going on?

Yeah?

Yeah, what's going on?

Yeah, Supremo Sun So Supremo roll call ever Supremo so So Supremo roll call.

Her name is Spante Yeah, and I must respond.

Yeah, and let y'all know.

Yeah, I was the fifth non blonde.

Son Supremo role called Suprema Sun Supremo role.

Called my sub Supreme.

Yeah, we're reaching new heights.

Yeah, with four non blonde Yeah, and four non whites.

Supreme Suprema Son, Suprema roll quls.

Yeah.

I was giving you more.

Yeah, she was about to start.

Yeah, what you waiting for?

Suppreva Sun Sign Supremo, role called Suprema Son Sign Supremo roll called.

Yeah.

Hey, I say, yeah, yeah, what's going.

On Suprema so Supremo roll.

My name is Linda.

Yeah, I just talked over you.

Yeah, and I'm here, Yeah, and I am God Clue.

Supremo Supremo Supremo roll Supprema son Sun Supremo roll call Suprema Supremo roll.

Can I just say it once?

No?

No, no, do over?

We haven't sound like, well I already beat you to it.

Yeah, I told you not to do that.

I said yesterday, you can't.

Can't.

You can't establish rules to roll call.

We do it all.

Yeah, we do it all like you're you.

You should know already.

We've been at this for two years.

And then when I told you I asked you not to do it, he was like, oh, that's easy anyway.

No, not at all.

I'm just saying that you have the hardest because you're in your last second to the guest of the show, so you have to figure out Yeah.

Yeah, I always write like.

Three, Yeah, let's us learn.

Sorry.

Yeah, Hey, it's cool.

I think I had the toughest position.

You guys heard, Yeah, I like, I walked, I talked over you, I made my amends to it, and you're.

A what's the difference?

I want again?

So now you're feeling yourself after a few weeks of being off anyway, what's up?

Welcome to another episode of Quest of Supreme only on Pandora.

We got a team Supreme with us.

Hello guys, Hello, Hello?

What we are live at?

Wait now I forgot the the pun behind the here word.

We are here are h A R h A R we are we are here at?

We are here h g A R studios, Uh, the the the lovely digs, the home digs.

A studio with windows.

Yes, that's a novel idea with good scenery.

Well, you know, we're always in the dark, so it's nice to see the outside and know what time it is.

And it actually, honestly, I think makes my players play better because they feel like inspired and energetic and no one's falling asleep and doing the same thing over and over, so it's great.

And then they can go jump in the pool if they need to.

Okay, I want to move in already anyway.

Our guest today is a songwriting producing heavyweight, having pinned hits and anthems for notables such as Gwen Stefani, Pink, Courtney Love, Alicia keys Lee, Dion Etheridge, Lunch, James Blunt, cheap Trick, Faith, Hilled, Britney Spears, Chalise, Ziggy Marley, everybody, my mother, my fifth grade teacher, the name I haven't heard in a long time, Janice Ian.

Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah, I believe she won a gram Me uh last year for a spoken word.

Yeah, she owns that category.

So her new life as an author, Dixie Chicks, Adam Lambert, Molly Cyrus and of course Christina Aguilera and with an arsenal like that.

Of course, obviously she has to be in the songwriters uh Hall of Fame.

Please welcome singer, songwriter, producer, ranger, Award winner, engineer and former non blonde, the one and only Linda Perry.

Thank you, so thank you, without without blowing up your spot too much to our two thousand listeners.

Uh, this this is more than they told me.

No, but this, this is a very unique situation that we're in.

Usually like home studios, people in my opinion, like the environment is always important and where I am, what I'm looking at right now, and I can't describe I mean, how we describe this.

I would describe this as a house on HG DV Householters that the couple would pick.

The one of property brothers that they show you in the beginning, and they say, well you can't afford that.

Exactly, there would be the house.

To like the humble house, the humbling house.

It's like, oh, I love this, this, open this, how much you think this colls?

This house is two point four million dollars, Get the fuck out, return.

To the press, or love it or listed when they show you that really nice house and they never picked that one for some reason, they always go, let's let's love it.

Well, I'm gonna love it.

It's a cozy, comfy atmosphere.

And usually artists I know either overdo it, like you know, some people take pilgrimage trips to Hawaii orwaim Wait why were we both using Kanye examples?

I mean, but you know, then there's some artists that that don't want to jinx it like you know, a lot of the classic Wu Tang records were still recorded in the same projects long after they had record budgets, until the flooding forced them out into wasn't Teddy Riley still producing in the exactly that Teddy Riley said that he did most of Michael Jackson's Dangerous album still inside his lucky projects, Like that's his lucky pair of draws.

And the thing is always like when you upgrade or when you go to comfort, then usually artists are free to go there because it might make the must edgy or whatever.

But I love the fact that this is.

This is comfortable and somewhat but it's it's the perfect middle.

I mean, it's not like the Wu Tang projects from it far from the So for you, this is where we are, this is where you're This is where the magic happens.

Sounding MTV cribs, Yeah, is this where the magic happens.

I want to go show you my cars now.

Beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, my son has a better car than I do.

It's like ga wagon out there.

This is the well one I I lived in San Francisco when I was in four and on Blonde That's where it all happened for me, and I lived there for a while and then I lived in a big warehouse and it didn't have any windows.

So when I decided to come to Los Angeles, which was like I had to argue with myself coming down here.

I was driving to visit a friend and on my way, I was like, you know, oh, you're going to move to l A.

And I'm like, no, I'm not, and yes you are, and I'm like, I'm not moving to LA because I never listened to music when I drive, and I just like to be in quiet.

Wait.

Really, yeah, that's why I don't.

It's just I like the piece, but time slower in my No, I'll drive all the way from San Francisco's no music, do you like?

I love to drive, and but I find it really meditating.

You know, where do you check your mixes?

Like when you mix do records?

Like?

Do you give your your mixes like test runs in the car?

No?

I listened here and well at my other studio, which I want to bring here is I I had a little AM radio station, so I put it through the airways.

I had one I think it was like six hundred.

It went around the block sound a ratio.

I really liked it.

But so when I found this house, I liked that it was had the walls.

I was looking for another house, but I bought the house wasn't my intention to live over here.

But I asked, where is the where does no one want to go live?

And everybody said in the valley, and I said specifically where like Sherman Oaks and seeing I'm like, that's where I'm going to go move.

So I found this house and I lived here for a while.

But then I bought a studio on called Royal Tone and I called it Kung Fu Gardens and that was eleven thousand square feet.

It was huge, it was beautiful, but it was a big version of this.

And then when my wife and had me and my wife had a son, I sold that studio to simplify and I turned this house that was actually just sitting here.

I live in Hancock Park, but this had been sitting here and I was renting it out to friends.

I'm like, you know what, I'm going to turn that house into my studio.

And so I just kept it pretty.

I mean, this is my esthetic.

It sounds great in here.

I think it's important to feel good where you're making music because to me, it's so intimate, especially as a songwriter.

You know, you want people to feel safe when they're coming in.

You want them to feel like, you know this is an environment that they can be in.

Like I had Sea long time ago in my other studio and she panicked.

She never came back because it was so big.

It was overwhelming for her, and a lot of people have that feeling, although it was a really great environment.

But this one, you know, I did dally here.

I've done so many great fringing things here already, and it just has a great vibe.

So I'm excited to be here and it it's very inspiring.

You know.

Some Well, returning to our initial thing about silence in the car, you couldn't let that go, right.

It just hit me that it makes sense because most authors I know, and screenwriters and songwriters now they thrive on silence, boredom, isolation so that the ideas can come to them, because you know, again, we use music as it means to pass time and to not go over our minds on the road and to not deal with vertigo or whatever you know, to keep us up.

But now that makes total sense.

Well also for me, honestly, it's it's not even that poet it gets.

It's more that I am constantly My mind always has music in it, so for some reason, when I can shut down like and just like when I do dishes, my mind goes blank.

When I'm driving, my mind I just go into these meditative states, you know, And it's the only time I can actually be free in my head for other things.

If there is anything other than music for me.

At night time, it's hard for me to go to sleep because it's just constant, you know.

I just it's constant music, like to a point where I have to wake up at you know, four in the morning because I had an idea that just popped up, and I, you know, get up, I walk to the other side of the house, you know, I grab my phone and I go to the art room and where because I have kids, like and.

I'm like, okay, the meme.

And then in the morning it sounds like nothing.

I get nothing from it, but sometimes it sticks.

So anyways, so I'm constantly trying to find so for some reason, driving I can keep the windows up and sweat all the way through with no music and be happy, happy as in my happy place.

We kill each other riding.

But when I'm here, I love I put on the Beach Boys, I love listening to Nina Simon.

I mean, I just put on anything and I come in here and I get inspired because this is where it all comes to life for me.

When I leave this area, for some reason, I shut everything else down.

I don't know why.

It's just the way I've always been.

I would think that's kind of a blessing to be able to do.

Yep.

So uh.

We always start our show with our guests with the question where were you born?

What city were you born in?

I was born in Boston, Boston, Massachusetts.

Ye, Springfield, Massachusetts.

Okay, but I say Boston because it's it's like a little bit over there.

It's like there's Boston and then Springfield's right there.

I'm glad you're not wearing your Yankees hat, Steve.

I was there for one year.

I was one years old, and then we moved to San Diego.

So I was raised in San Diego.

Okay.

So I'm really a California girl.

But for some reason, everybody thinks I'm from New York.

Yeah, guilty, Sorry.

Yeah, I think it's my badass attitude.

It could be.

Yeah, you would fit in very well.

Oh I did it all.

You've never lived in New York No, Okay, I'm guilty too.

I thought New York and had moved to La Okay.

I see, what was your home situation like with your parents and siblings.

My mother's Brazilian, my father's from Portugal.

And when we when my family came here, my mom, they got here like I think.

It was sixty four, sixty three.

I was born in sixty five in Boston, but I have brothers and one sister.

Two of my brothers still stayed in Brazil.

They never came with us.

And my mom was basically my father told my mother that she was not at My mom didn't speak any English.

My mom was gorgeous, beautiful, modeliss you.

Know, Brazilian woman and you know hot, you know, and and my father basically coveted her and wanted her to be a housewife.

And he didn't want her speaking Portuguese to us because it would be we would be admitting we're immigrants.

And his he was raised that, you know, you can't be an immigrant in this world.

They'll treat you differently.

And so we were raised basically.

My father changed my brother's names, you know, to be more American, and I was Linda, so that was you know, it's pretty seventies America that that's my birth name.

But then what happened was we basically were learning how to grow up with my mom and teaching her how to speak English.

So we would come home, we would read our books to her.

She'd read, you know, try to read with us.

She learned all her English pretty much on TV and she just watched National Geographic just Whatever I Love Lucy were her main shows.

She loved news.

My mother.

My father was an engineer that worked for very big companies for the government.

My mother ended up being way more smarter than my father and it was pretty amazing to watch.

And so that's the household.

I was brought up.

My father he's passed away now, but he was an alcoholic.

My mom was a very you know, outspoken woman with vengeance, you know, and we were on welfare.

We drank powdered milk, you know, tuna, every single way that you pap we could think of it, yes, spam, I mean everything.

So it was.

You know, it was a great I'm happy for my upbringing, but it was tough.

And but I wouldn't change one thing because I love how I grew up to be, and you know, so that was kind of where I'm at.

And then I left home at fifteen was on DRU.

I did the typical punk rocker.

I was a total punk rocker, mohawk everything, piercing through my face and you know, slitting my wrists, not to kill myself, but just to have the scars.

And that's what you did.

In San Diego.

I dropped a lot of acid.

I done a lot of crystal coke, drinking, panhandling, sleeping in parks.

I did it all on it And not until I was probably eighteen did I say I think I'm supposed to be more than this.

And then I got my shit together.

WHOA, Yeah, that's our episode.

How did music enter your life?

Well, it always was there.

That That was the funny thing about music and my relationship with it.

I took it for granted, you know, because music I was always touching something and making.

Music out of it.

Like if I saw guitar, I could just play something and make a melody out of it.

If I saw piano, you know, I would make a melody at it.

My father was a musician, but he never shared it with us, so I knew it was there, but it wasn't something that we were brought up with.

My father listened to Frank Sinatra is like his big Willie Nelson, Frank Sinatra, George Strait, Johnny Cash in the country.

He loved country, but he loved jazz.

Someboy Day was in Boston.

That was somewhere your.

My My mother loved Bostonova, all Brazilians.

I don't even know half this shit that she was playing.

My sister loved the Beach Boys and Elvis Presley.

My brothers loved the Beatles and you know, then the Zeppelins and all that.

And I left musicals.

I just was fascinated with musicals, the Jungle Book, sound of Music, Chitty Chitty Bang.

Bang, all of it.

I really was like, oh my god, this is amazing.

So that was my musical upbringing.

But then my brother, he's over there.

He was in a band called Chaos and San Diego and he had the long, curly hair and chicks loved him.

He always had girls around.

And this was when I was about like fifteen fourteen, and he wore really cool leather pants and his band was like you know, everybody, and I was like, I want to be like him.

And they would rehearse in our garage and then they would leave, and I'd always be listening and he'd come out, he's like, don't touch my guitar.

You know, did the brother thing of course, And of course he'd leave and I'd go in there and I would try to buy ear figure out what he had just been playing.

So that's kind of how I learned how to play music.

I just figured it out by ear.

I think that even though I encourage parents and everyone to uh, you know, introduce their kids to music, now that I know, the recurring theme is that the guests that are on our show that thrive the most do so because it's like those forbidden don't touch it.

So you got to make music almost Yeah, And now I'm gonna discourage all parents out there, discourage your kids from their stereo.

There's a total truth to that, because even like it's funny with my son, I was telling quests that I bought his quest Love.

I don't even we call that little set.

It's like a well, yeah, the breakbeat kit.

The breakbeat kite for my one year old.

I appreciate that I wouldn't gladly send it to you.

No.

I loved it, and because I saw it somewhere and I'm like, oh shit, I love this thing.

And I played it and I was like, this is amazing.

So I got it for my one year old son that you know, he just started walking and I was, you know, teaching him and he loved being on it.

But it was obvious it's just too soon to give him a drum set.

But he I never like, there's there's drums around, there's pianos around, there's guitars, there's this.

I never encourage it, and he just goes to it himself.

He discovered the Beatles all on his own at one and a half.

What Yeah, all on his own, swear to god.

He listens to Penny Lane, Hay Bulldog, Yellow Summery.

He watches Yellow Summary.

Now.

I don't know if anybody out there go watch Yellow Submarine.

It's a trip.

I can't even get through Yellow Summer.

And he's obsessed with it.

He knows it, and he knows all the songs in Spanish as well, because we teach him Spanish.

And he loves to dress like Paul McCartney.

He wears a jacket and a tie.

I just got him out of the tie because it's nearly one hundred and fifty degrees out there and he wants to be in his jacket and Tye and I feel like a bad parent, like he's like sweating.

I can't get off for him, you know.

But anyways, on his own, he is doing that.

So I don't encourage it.

I just make it available if he's interested.

He's going to be the third member of Lemon Tweets No Lemon tweegs.

It's like these two kids, they're teenagers, like maybe sixteen and eighteen, but it's like they're straight nineteen seventies, like basity rollers showing cassidy like that nineteen seventies, Like kids are people to era.

That was a deep cut.

Only Bill get that?

Uh and Steve, I'm sorry, Steve, you're here, Bob callister son, Yeah, okay, now you have to.

I'll do me with the with the host thing.

Make sure people have no reason to live or in a thing, right, got it?

No, they're just straight nineteen seventies.

And but it's because you know they're parent parents kind of raised them where the timeline was cut off at nineteen seventy seven.

So that's all all they know is Boston.

Yeah, they know Boston, they know Kansas, they know like those types of elo that sort of thing.

So well, there is this wonderful wave of this new generation I guess what we call them, Generation why or whatever.

Yeah, but these.

Kids are going to impress a lot of people.

Like when when people like ask me, like, aren't you bummed out about the music business, I'm like, no at all, not even We're just going through the bumps that we go through.

But it's up to us to acknowledge and and to see and hear what's coming.

And there's a bunch of kids right now that are thirteen and under that listen to Carol King Hendrix Zeppelin, because what what's going on is people are putting these Spotify playlists whatever.

They don't have to, but they But the thing is they don't know who the new.

Ones are or they old ones.

They don't they're just listening and they're responding.

So they hear Zeppelin come on, and they're like, going right on.

And then that takes you to you know, Greta Van Fleet, which is a new bands like Zeppelin.

You know, those guys would not have been signed today, you know if it wasn't for a lot of these playlists that kids are being exposed to that have amazing, amazing music on it, and it's it's circulating.

So you know, to the music business people who are feeling fear, it's like there is no fear like actually, and in fact, I think there's gonna be a wonderful, beautiful surge of incredible music that's going.

To be coming out.

We just need to What our job is is to kind of clean up the foundation you know that we're sitting on right now, because the business is so messed up and the intentions are so bad that we have to really just kind of make it.

We have to clean house a little bit so there is something for these kids to come into and not be afraid to you sign a record deal or be exposed in some way or whatever that want to just show up and perform and play.

And I'm so glad you didn't say drain this one.

I would not train this well.

Do you think in your experiences and you've experienced the business as an artist, you've experienced the business as a label, you've experienced it as a songwriter.

So I'm certain that from the interns to the president of the label, you've had interaction with everything, do you well, I know that the old modus operandi will eventually erode and be done away with.

But do you feel that there could be a new system in which artists can get their fair share and make a living and still like where both sides are happy, where you know, because I don't I know that just to make great music, Like what's the sense of making great music if you're in a forest and no one hears the tree falling, you know, on the other side of the world.

So I don't want to have to be a business person and an artist at the same time.

So do you think that there will eventually be a system that will be fair enough so that artists can make a living and make quality music without having to shake their ass in a video or do this hot collabo with this person?

Do you think you'll see that in your lifetime?

Well, I mean that's a tricky question to be honest for someone like me, because I believe that quality and money don't go hand in hand, you know, Like, I don't.

Know, you need money to make quality, like as beautiful as this environment that right, red Aalinn didn't, Patsy Klein didn't.

I mean, Carol King said in her room, And I mean, like, I mean, that's where music comes from.

It people made incredible music with no money.

I mean, it's just who we are.

Like, if I don't make any money from here on out, it's not going to stop me from being a performer or a songwriter and doing everything I am and put everything that I am into what I'm doing, because that's just who I am.

That's the that's the bar I live with on a daily basis.

I you know, I have to write.

It's it's my therapy, it's my it's who I am.

It's like brushing my teeth.

Like it's not a choice, it's just when it happens.

I have to be available to respond to it.

You know what you're saying.

Will As a business person now, I think there's many outlets that are going to make themselves available.

I feel, are we going to make the same money that we did in the nineties.

No, we're not.

We're not.

It's not going to happen.

But we got to remember other things that are going on.

It's what's happening right now is making.

Okay, let's just go ahead and just say it.

It's turning people who are not talented into celebrities, right and they're being able to make a shitload of money based on you know this none talent to chrisma, right, but let's even take that for a second.

There's a talent in that.

There's a talent in being charismatic.

There's a talent into selling yourself.

There's a because you know what those people do.

They they're on it twenty four to seven, they're banging shit out, they're on their Twitter, their car, they're you know, they're doing it.

They're doing it when they wake up, when they go to sleep.

There's a different talent.

I actually like, no, you can like her, but that's a clear example.

Yeah you can like her.

No, that's fine.

I mean, but we all know that she's built in a way.

Yeah.

But then there's like, you know these artists that are like Adele.

Everybody said records don't sell.

Adele said hello a month for a month, and she sold groundbreaking twenty five million something like that for ridiculous amount of money, right or I mean she made a shitload off of that.

Because I know that she is covered in that area.

I get a lot of artists that come in here go, you know, I hate my album.

I didn't want to be like that.

You know, the record company made me do this.

Blah blah, blah.

I didn't want to make that video.

I didn't want to put the glitter on my mouth to make it look like I was, you know, got you know, shot calm on my face.

I didn't want to do any of that actual you know, you know, and all I could look at them and go, I'm so sorry.

But you're not getting any sympathy here because you allowed that to happen.

You know, you were afraid of losing your record deal, so you did all the things that you're not supposed to do.

You you fell into that trap.

So do I to your questions?

That's why I said a difficult one, because I believe when artists step into their power, money will come.

I believe anytime we step into our power, are everything that is due to us will come to us.

What is rightfully ours will be ours when we step into our power.

So that is the answer to that question.

Right now.

It is my job, your job, all of our job here to help people step into their power.

All right, how many songs do you reckon you?

Okay, I won't say like half completed songs are half demos, because I'm certain that you know, even if you have an idea right now, you'll just excuse yourself, and how many your iPhone outside?

Uh?

On a weekly basis, how many songs do you think you complete?

Right, Well, it depends on if I'm writing with somebody.

So basically, right now, I'm in the studio with Natasha Beddingfield.

In probably fourteen days, we wrote thirteen songs, and then that was me concentrating on just the songs.

Now sometimes I'll just you know, with her, I did something different, Like I really wanted to get the body of songs down, and so I didn't focus on any production because I wanted to do something different with her this time.

And a lot of people know Natasha Beddingfield for you know, pocket full of Sunshine and unwritten, and there's a cleanness there about her.

But she I mean there's a little Michael in her.

I mean she hits these this tone that sounds like friggin' Michael Jackson when he was younger.

And she's got a grit and a style, and she's wild and she's political, and she's dark and she's.

Funny and she's light.

You know.

So anyway, so I just wanted to focus on the song.

So I just focused on the songs and didn't get into production, so we were, you know, like the other yesterday, I wasn't playing on writing a song, and we did.

So it depends on the energy that's moving through me and the artist.

Now, I've been with some artists that I've been with them for three days and I keep switching because I can't get one song written with them.

And then finally at the I always allow at least two to three days.

Sometimes that's long.

But if I don't write a song with somebody within the first three hours, the chemistry's not there.

I'll say, listen, I think you're amazing.

You know who would be really great with you?

And then I'll recommend somebody else and they look at me.

Like you curve them.

They're like, well, I want to work with you, and I said, I do too, but it's I like you, but that doesn't mean we're going to create, you know.

That's that's how I roll, you know, So do artists.

Prefer that immersive experience in creating with you?

Because there are some times where I feel as though like I'll have a brilliant idea and I'll execute it and go in the studio by myself in it, and then I'll present it and then they'll be like, nah, I'm cool on it, and it's almost like well yeah, like I hate to say this on So that's how I fool.

That's how I fool Erica, Like Erica is the Queen of no when it's like yo, we it's dope, right, and then she'll want to be part of the creative process.

So then I got a Jedi my trigger.

And then I'll present the same idea like a month later, right, and then it's like it's eighty two thousand, you know what I mean?

And then it's like yeah, I see it's but it's almost like I feel like with your your position is harder because there's much more than a songwriter, like you bordline up to be the therapist sometimes the babysitter, like if they have add you gotta give them the focus and you have to be life coach.

So it's what what is the most comfortable environment that you're in in songwriting?

Like do you have to sit with that person in real time?

Is music even involved?

Like do you even just deal with words?

And like Smokey Robinson said that half the songs he wrote he starts out with poetry, like not even thinking of a melody, it's just like, do these words make sense?

And once he feels he has something, then it's like, what music can I dress around this?

So what is your actual, like preferred process of songwriting.

I don't have.

I I everything comes at the same time, first of all.

So for me, if I pick up a guitar, I'll basically come up with the melody and some kind of lyric right off the top.

It all like for me, I have to be open to the song presenting itself and just catch it.

You know how sometimes we ignore, oh, an actual lyric or is it like, I don't know.

I'll just know it's just ice mumble and then it turns into song.

So all my songs come from that.

The melody, the music, the lyrics all kind of start showing up at the same time, and I'll just jam it but with So for me, when I'm here, that's how I roll when I'm with an artist.

I love working with people.

I could write a song with you guys right now, just as comfortable as I could with myself.

I love being inspired.

I I am one of the people that if we all sat here and we were like, okay, let's.

Write a song.

You were on your phone, you're drinking coffee, you fell asleep, you're daydreaming, and you're just looking at gear.

And I sat here and did it.

You know, I did all the music and wrote it.

I would still make that a collaboration because it's the energy and the inspiration of everybody.

You know, it's not sweet, it's just the way it is because to me, it's a it's a series of events and energies and things that just bring us to where we are right now.

And that's how I look at life in general and songwriting.

So it's to me, it's I can write anywhere.

You can put me in any place, and I will write a song.

What's the largest number of people collaboration situation that you've been in to write a song.

The only time I've ever done something to that at that level is you know, with a band.

You know where I've had my band here and it's like one, two, three for five, six seven people maybe if that, and we're just sitting in there jam and I just sometimes I just got to break out.

It's just like guys, you know, I feel the guys are just like they're lost in the song.

They can't get there.

So I'll come in and I'll go, okay, let's just jam out, you know, and then I'll pick up the guitar and I'll start doing something.

We'll start doing things, and then we'll write a song.

Now, you know, you're always in the alpha situation, like.

I'm always the alpha.

Yeah, okay, that's what I wanted to know, Like who decides who's going to be quote the bad guy or the coaches?

Yeah, no, I'm I'm always that.

I don't it's to me, it's I'm just in the more powerful position because I'm very confident.

I'm not choosing that.

It's just who I am and people.

You're only as powerful as the people around you, So if people are letting you take power, then I'm the alpha.

You know.

That's just the way the works works in the wolf Pack.

You know, it's like they they want people want to be led.

They want to feel like somebody's got control of something.

That's why we get in an airplane and we feel that guy is the guy that's gonna take us to safety.

And I don't fucking know who that guy is that's gonna who the fuck, but we automatically just go into this trusting situation.

He's got it, you know.

So I try to make that available because that's just who I am.

But I want people to feel safe and secure in their environment.

And I only whip out bulldog for business.

You know.

I am a total I will.

I am an assassin when it comes from my artist.

I manage artists, and I am a killer.

I would go in there because my artist is my number one priority.

I don't give a fuck about any of you, my artists.

I need to make sure that they're taken care of.

And I become an assassin.

I'm a gunslinger.

I go left field.

I funck shit up.

I got people scared of me, but I'm also really sweet.

Is your writing process different for those people who you've been working with for so long, Like it's the product, you know, since you know them, and on a whole different level for like the Pinks and the Christina and.

Well you know, I mean we all know, like there's people who think their writers and they think their producers, you know, So you have to you know, like what you said, you have to Jedi mind trick them, you know.

And so I have How long does it take for you to know who you're dealing with?

If it's a blind situation, like do you start with dinner first, do you meet off campus first to see who you're dealing with, or is it just like Clyde Davis is like, look, I got this new artist and come to New York and meet them.

Yeah, No, I don't do that.

I'll meet people, but I don't.

I rarely, it's a rare occasion.

I'll just say okay to somebody.

I don't care if it's Beyonce or some new person.

I need to sit with you first, just chat and see if we're a match, because it is important to me.

I'm not again, I have to feel creative in the situation.

Otherwise, if I'm not and I'm only doing it for the namesake or whatever, it just doesn't It doesn't fit in my soul properly.

Okay, So I gotta ask at the height of misunderstood mania, we came first striped?

Uh?

Misunderstood that was first?

Yeah?

Okay, So let's just say in the in the sort of the cyclone of where you know, get this party start, it's like playing now, playing in stadiums and whatnot.

What can you tell us a name that like came to you like Okay, I want something.

You had to curve them and be like, we're not a match.

It's not going to work like a a failed collabo that didn't happen, or that you passed on.

Yeah, there's many.

Listen.

My one of my pride things that I love about myself is that I'm not a kiss and teller.

But mind you, I'll tell you this.

I have I record everything, so when you walk into my studio, it's rolling.

Let me just tell you this.

I have ship on people beyond my fucking am I that would shock this, you know, fucking industry.

I mean the confessions, the things I mean, I have a maybe when I'm like lying on my road the studio, maybe I might go okay and unleash these you know, who knows?

Maybe, but I But what I love about who I've become is that you know, my experiences are my experiences, and nobody's gonna ever experience anything the way I do, or you do or we do.

Right, But I just know, right off the top, I can know in five minutes.

I'm extremely I'm sensitive.

I'm all in heart.

I'm rarely in my head unless I need to be, but I'm all in my heart.

To a point where it's a fault for me, like it becomes a weakness because I'm so writing in my heart all the time that I'm over the top honest.

I've hurt people, not meaning but just because my honesty has hurt people.

You know, how do you if you care for someone, will you be severely blunt with them?

Even if if I don't care about them, I'll be severely blunt, Like it's it to me, it's our duty as human beings to be.

Like, for instance, yesterday, so there's this girl on Twitter name Scarlet B.

Her name is Savannah.

Anyway, she email, she kept twitting me songs like Linda Perry, I want your attention, I want your attention, and I follow on my watch and I listen, you know, and I do.

And so this girl sent me a version of What's Up, and she changed all the words to basically say something to the extent, please notice me.

I'm I'm a Vietnam vett, not Vietnam, no vet, I'm a vet and you know all her she put all her struggles in it.

I just want you to hear me.

I'm coming for you.

Where are you?

You know whatever?

So it was pretty endearing.

I tweeted back and said, okay, kid, I'm gonna give you a shot.

So I had my people reach out to her.

We flew her here.

She lives in Virginia.

We flew her and her mom out here, and I said, Okay, I'm gonna give you a shot.

You're going to do a showcase for my label.

And so yesterday she did a showcase last night in front of the label, and and there was a couple of songs that are good couple songs on then.

But it was my what would I be if I brought this girl all the way here?

And I didn't say, these are the issues that I'm hearing in your material, because you can get that on the fucking Voice American Idol and all that crap.

You know, those people, those kids, those kids walk away with no information at all.

They walk away with nothing.

Even the winners walk away with nothing.

You know, maybe the earlier days American Idol, there were there were people, but that period is gone.

But now name me one Voice winner.

I know Adam Levine and Christina and Gwen's records.

I know that.

No I'm saying I know the judges where yeah, they benefit you know that that's what's going on American and I don't right now it's all that.

But when did they stop?

And when did Simon cow or whatever say, you know what, there's something here, but this is what I would do.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

So it was it's my duty as a as a person in the music business, you know, like people do think that I do know something.

Whether it's the if it's right or not, I don't know.

I just have my own opinions.

And again they're my opinions.

But so I don't know this girl.

But I had to tell her sidebarred her without everybody else around in that room, and I said, listen, this song, I really like it needs a chorus.

But here I think I don't know who you're being in this song.

And she's like, well, I really wanted to be like Halsey.

And I'm like, why don't you just be you?

You know, why are you being Halsey?

Be you?

And I don't like this.

So anyway, so she's going home today with some valuable information.

I you know, this experience is going to change her life, and more so, I wanted it to change everybody else's.

That was experiencing this good gesture, because that's what we need to do.

We need to reach out and extend a good gesture.

We need to help people.

We need to give them the right information because nobody, nobody is giving these kids the right information.

Where's our fucking political revolution that was supposed to happen with punk rock?

Where are the Ramones?

They were supposed to show up, Patty Smith was supposed to show up shuring this whole thing.

Where the fuck did it go?

Natalie Dixie Chicks, everybody shut.

Up exactly exactly.

Stuff to lose, lose, anything to lose because he was you know every day.

That is exactly my point.

It's like, you know, what are we then if we're not standing for what we came in here for.

Like so when you go back to your question about are we gonna make money, it's like, who fucking cares?

I'm in it, man, I'm in it to be a soldier and a pawn.

I'll be a fucking pond in this music business because if I have to sacrifice myself for the for the business to win, That's what I'm in it for.

So I don't care about the money.

Is the money great?

Yes, absolutely, I still think that one should be able to make a living.

I think I would make I live.

We are I think we are, man, I think we are.

I think we're gonna be.

Okay, maybe Hype Williams videos have gassed me up too much to yeah.

But you know what, let me tell you this.

We should have never been making three hundred, five hundred thousand dollars videos.

Okay.

The nineties is what screwed everything up.

The nineties got greedy.

Oh my god, all this money, and everybody wanted more, more and more, and the labels wanted more because they you know what I mean, fucking seventeen ninety nine.

First, see the kids were being ripped off.

You know what they did, they said fuck you.

They started their own revolution and start fucking putting out all those songs and records out online, saying here you go, it's here for free, you know, because we can afford nineteen ninety nine for a crappy album.

So remember that, not only were they spending nineteen ninety and twenty bucks for record, they're spending twenty bucks for craph You know, there's maybe one or two good songs on there, but the rest was fucking filler and shit.

Stop selling singles.

So you couldn't get this the one song you want.

You had to buy the whole album and suffer through, you know, seventy eight minutes of the crap just to get to the two minutes you want to.

Yeah, so I think it's gonna be okay.

I think we just have to readdress our intentions, you know, And I think we can make a living, and I think we can make a really good living.

And I think.

There's gonna be other resources that are gonna start happening.

There's a lot of people, do you probably know a lot of different things are coming up.

There's just gonna be a lot of different ways for distribution and reaching out to your fans and and and honestly, there's gonna be a lot of we have to get rid of a lot.

Do you understand there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of unnecessary music out there.

You're not through they like, I don't even think you're fighting as an artist.

You're not really even fighting for money.

You're fighting for attention.

Yeah, yeah, it's not even about the Attention is kind of the great currency, now, you know.

And that's why what you were saying earlier with artists who have that charisma and know how to sell it.

I mean, I've had straight up labels like my homies that work at labels straight up tell me before even looking to sign an artist, they go and look at their Instagram for yes first, like they look.

At you got on install?

How many what's your Twitter?

Because they're lazy.

Labels are fucking lazy.

They want everybody to do that.

They don't want them down.

They don't break because they don't know how to.

They don't break them because they don't.

Nobody in the music business is actually running the music business.

Like nobody's developing artists anymore.

You have a you know this guy that's the bazillionaire that bought Atlantic because he wanted to be on a yacht with all these you know people and go to parties.

It's like he knows nothing about the business.

And then you leave it to these guys that are just holding on.

Their job is just to not say yes right now.

Their job.

They're safe.

They're keeping their jobs by not saying yes, yes, you.

Know, but not for nothing.

That's why it seems like when you look at your catalog, whether it was conscious or unconscious, you definitely have a somewhat of eligibility requirement for I want to say the ladies at very least that you work with.

The ladies are most fucked up and emotional.

They need me, you know, the one and the ones that you work with, those.

They got a certain foundation of strength to them, you know what I mean, like all of them when you look at it.

Well, you know, I think that with women, we're just emotion.

We're emotional and we get sensitive, and I think that, you know, I'm always asked like why aren't there more women producers or engineers?

And I think one, it's a bitch man to you know, to to be turned down because you're a woman, you know, and or not.

No, like I've turned down women, you know, engineers, I've I don't want to engineer.

I love engineering, I love producing, but I don't want to do it anymore, you know, because engineering I start geeking out, you know, I start fucking moving.

I can spend like a whole fucking day.

I have hundreds of snares and I will go through all of them to get the right sound because I don't well, why don't you just tune that one down?

Are you kidding me?

It sounds great like this.

I'm not tuning down my I have.

A do you know, John Brian.

Yeah, motherfucker, spend like three hours on like one snare.

But you know what, it's because you don't want to touch the character of the one.

So anyway, So anyways, as you can see, I can go on this conversation for hours.

So but I think that sometimes what's going on with women is.

Maybe they don't want to deal with it.

Maybe they don't they see it as a losing battle already.

Maybe they're happy being on their computers at home and not dealing with a room full of you know, guys.

Maybe the guys won't even hire them, you know.

You know, I like to be up.

I am, I am an.

I'm a lifer.

I'm a lifer in this position.

I don't clock in nine to five.

I am a fucking lifer.

And I don't believe there's many women that are lifers, you know, because there's a lot other things that they women want to do, they want to have they I have a son, but I'm figuring it out, you know.

But I'm kind of more macho, you know, I have a more man perspective.

Less you have resources I do have.

Resources but the girls.

But you know, I had to fight for my resourceers.

I was when I was in four Nam Bloms.

I'll give you great example, when I was in four Non Blonde and we're recording that album, which I fucking hate, you know, because sonically I don't know what it is.

I know what it is now, but I didn't know what it was then.

You know, I had no experience of it being in a studio, and so I got you know, I'm listening to my you know this.

He gives me this fifty three vox fifty three, les Paul to go through the sixty three vox amp, and I'm in the room and I'm hearing it.

I'm like, oh man, that is fat.

And then I go into the control room and it sounds like this.

And I didn't know he was compressing it, queuing out everything and putting reverb on it.

I didn't know that, you know, So every time I'd question him, like, why does it sound so great out here?

But when I come in here it sounds so teeny and so far away, Linda, you know, with his accent, you know who produced it, David Tickle.

Can't you just you know, just just be a singer, you know, and go in there and just do whatever.

And so I heard that fucking just go be a singer bullshit way too many times.

And then when he got to What's Up the song that I wrote, when it got to in His Little Hands, it had a marching drum.

You want me to change all the lyrics because it didn't make sense to him for me to repeat certain lines.

There's a guitar solo.

It sounded fucking bad.

He changed my strum.

I went to Tom Walley Interscope Records.

I said, I am not fucking releasing this song.

And he's like, well, we're all happy with it.

I'm like, I'm not happy with it.

So we had one real tape.

We had tape back then, so we had one reala tape.

I called up the Plant Studios in San Francisco and I said, hey, man, can you do me a solid?

We have no money, We had no money, we couldn't afford anything.

And I said, will you do me sol then let us come in and I need to reproduce this this song.

He's like, of course, dude, for you, I'll do that, you know, just put us a thanks on the record.

I'm like done.

So we go in there.

I've never produced anything.

Dial with the engineer, dialed up the sounds, got everything, got everything, put it back to the arrangement, put on our tape.

We had to choose because you only have room for three, so we had to kind of make commitments and go, okay, let's just keep this, let's go over that one.

So we are on our last take.

David Tickle comes walking in at like two o'clock in the morning.

We're laying it down.

That's it.

It was live, and then we added some background vocals.

That was it, and then we mixed it that night and then it made it, mastered it the next day, and it was on the record.

That is the version that sold seven million records.

That's got over you know, two billion fucking streams or whatever on YouTube, and that motherfucker.

When I said I want producer credit on that, they all said no to me.

Can't you fucking be a singer?

And I from that day on, I said, fuck you, I'm going to be more than a singer, bitch.

I'm going to fucking learn how to do this shit.

And that's what I did.

I started buying equipment and I taught myself.

That was my motivation, you know, And then I did.

I just went for it.

I didn't it was no, was not an exception, and I got fired from misunderstood.

Just to let you know this little story.

Nobody knows this.

I'm gonna get a doozy, so I get to I wrote Get the Party Started in like fifteen minutes.

Because I was such an analog girl.

I wanted to know what that sound was on the radio that I was hearing on MTV.

So I called up a friend.

I'm like, what is that thing on MTV right now?

Or all the sounds?

You know?

Oh, it's an MPC.

It's a Triton and it's a role in Expansion cards, you know.

And I'm like, okay.

So I went and bought all that.

I set it all up.

I had eight DAA D A D eighty eight and then I set it up and then I started just playing.

And then that's what I wrote.

Out of just testing all this gear, I wrote, get the Party started, put some then put some live woah wah bass, you know whatever.

And then this girl calls me up.

Liza's message says, I want to you know, are you Linda Perry?

I want to blah blah blah, write a song with you.

So I go and meet her, and then I had written get Get the party started.

I play it for her.

She's like, that's my first single.

Plays at La read right anyways, So cut to we were doing it here when I'm still living here.

I had a little studio in that room, and so I just start demoing I'm really good, right and just whatever, and then she it was very different.

So La Reid came in and he was like, you know, this is very different.

We're gonna lose.

Lisha's a Pink's audience because I just feel like this is just too left field.

And I said, you know what, how many what did she sell?

He's like, well, she's got like, you know, almost two million.

You know, she sold two million records.

I'm like, you're gonna lose those ten and you're gonna gain ten.

I mean, you're gonna lose those two and you're gonna gain ten.

And then I got fired because I was too left field.

Yes, this is the beautiful part.

You're gonna fucking love me for this time.

I remember I got fired.

Okay, so they fired me, and I'm like, I'm ten songs in I'm the I'm the bulk of the album, right and they fired me.

So I I say, no, you know what, you guys never hired me.

You can't fire me because you never hired me.

So I went back into the studio with Dave Pinsato, I finished the productions, had him mix it, and then I invoiced them, gave them the fucking record and then they took it.

So they never hired me.

They fired me, and then they never rehired me.

Remember that, l They.

Were like no pieces when Pink was on her there you go and she was doing BT Awards.

But isn't that a great story.

He did not like me at all because I was in his face and just you know how I was just you know what I mean, It was really funny.

But he wanted to fire my ass.

But Dallas Austin wasn't losing his job, you know.

But they quickly were ready to fire me because I was too aggressive, you know, and I call them out like she's.

Gonna and you know what she did?

She sold twelve million records.

In that moment.

Did you see the more misogyny in the R and B area than what you're used to.

I'm just curious, No, because you.

Know what, I don't look for those things.

Uh you know, I'm this is where I'm naive, and you know, like I don't look for problems and I just find solutions.

You know, That's it.

I find solutions.

I don't dwell in things.

I just find my way around it.

At this is my journey.

Man.

Sometimes I don't know.

I mean there was you know what, more so not.

Really in that because you know, I actually got very embraced in that you know whole you know, everybody at Enterprise, you know, Enterprise Studios, So everybody embraced me there.

I mean there is all walks going on in there, and they loved me, embraced me.

I and then had you know, people like Ron Fair was coming in.

Okay, I want you to come listen to this, uh you know Maya you know song where we just redid free Fall and it took like three weeks to do it, and I had this big orchestra and all this stuff, and you know, and I spent like a hundred million dollars.

Fucking budget.

Dude, he fucking plays it to me and I'm all, you took three weeks to do this and you spent probably.

I said, Ron, you should be ashamed of yourself.

You know how much she's paying for that?

And I looked at Maya, I go, you're paying for that.

So the three weeks that he just spent the big strings that suck you're pain for the mean, Oh my god.

I didn't know how to filter myself and it just came out because I was so angry.

What did her face say when you did that?

She was, I think embarrassed and she knew and it did nothing.

It was the most I mean.

And I'm a petty fan, you know, And it's like.

Don't do a cover and fucking do a bad version.

Of it, you know, just don't do it.

If you're gonna do a bad version of cover.

Here to all you little kiddie winkies out there, if you're going to do a cover, do your.

Cover of it.

Don't do Ron Fairris cover.

Don't do Ron Fairs cover.

Just don't do the artist cover.

Just do a different version of it.

Make it you don't make it a version of them and then on top of it, a bad version of it.

They used to teach that on American Idol, Yeah, used to.

So I'm glad you said what you said about the reality shows, because the thing is is that when you're saying that you know you're here today and going before you got there.

For me, it's like this whole idea of we're going to create gods in fifteen weeks in fifteen week episode increments is so one it's unproven.

But it's almost like the people that we idolize put decades into their craft, Like you know, Retha Franklin started at six, singing in church, singing in church, singing in church until she was nineteen before she even got in front of a microphone.

And it's almost like, do you even think that we have the patients?

I mean, as long as we have the suits at these labels and you know the you know, it's like more power to Simon Caroll Cowell for creating these platforms, but I don't know if it's doing us more harm than it is helping the situation.

And so it's like, for you, do you think that we can even find and cultivate talent that at least had fifteen years of experience and work before they even see a microphone.

I don't think that.

I think there's just a different way, like are we going to get the fifteen years.

Now, do you think it's necessary?

I do.

I do feel that.

You know, right now, you have kids sitting on YouTube.

They do covers, right, or they write a song, they go on their YouTube, they record it, they put it out there in the world with Twitter or socials whatever.

They get instant reaction, right, they get instant feedback.

They think that is the real world right there.

Okay, so then they get plucked out of the system and then they're put into these, you know, a studio.

Good example is that little Grace Vanderval.

Right, so Grace Vanderval, she was the girl that was thirteen and played ukulele on America's Got Talent.

Yeah yeah, okay, so so this was funny.

So you know she's thirteen, all right, she doesn't get you know, people go crazier because she's got a really beautiful, soulful voice.

She writes this really great song.

So I get a call like a year later and.

It's her management or the label and they're like, hey, wondering if you would have any interest to meet Grace Vanderral.

You know, we're in the studio and we're having some problems, and you know, she's been in there with Pharrell and blah blah blah and naming all these big names and yeah, we're just we're I guess we're just not getting where we want to go.

And I said, well, I can go ahead and guess what your problem is is.

She's fourteen and you stuck her in a studio Pharrell Williams.

Who does that?

Right?

Who does that?

I mean, the girl has no life.

She's like, she doesn't she went on American America's got talent.

Too, in a studio with the Froh.

She's had no time to understand who she is, who she's going to be.

So when that happened, I had met a twelve year old and from my wife is Sarah Gilbert, and she has this really great friend, Sleigh Moonfry that was punking.

She's amazing.

So Slay calls me up.

She's like, I have this friend and she's the sweetest person.

I have this friend and she's got a daughter and she thinks the daughter's got talent but doesn't know and is wondering if you could check her out and just see, you know, they're just curious.

So I'm like, for you, Slay anything, So I you know, a week later, I go to her house and there's the kid and big bottle cap glasses and braces.

I mean, I mean it was like there was four railroad tracks in there, you know, and a total dork.

You could tell she has a total brain.

Talked a mile and minute, and I'm like going, okay, I'm gonna be open to this.

And she sits down and I don't even know if it was a beginning, there was no end, but it sounds like there was a middle, all right.

So she plays this middle of a song and then just stops, like, you know, after a minute and a half.

And but she had this soulful voice.

So they're like, well, what do you think.

I said, I can't tell right now, but I'll tell you what.

Write five songs and call me in two months.

So I gave my number.

She wrote six songs and called me exactly two months to the day, and then she came here played me the six songs that she wrote.

I put a little microphone up at the piano and just to record them, and I was in there crying.

And I came in crying, you know, and I said, I was never this deep at fucking twelve, you know.

Oh yeah, twelve yeah.

Okay.

So then I said, okay, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna record this for real, for you, like just piano, just you sitting at your piano and singing the songs.

But let's do a better version.

So come back in three weeks, and I have like three days available for you, right.

She comes back in three weeks with twelve songs.

Wow, whoa yeah, And so then I'm like, holy fuck, and I'm not kidding you good songs.

I'm telling you I have little fucking Carol King right now.

So she's like, what are we gonna do?

So I recorded videoed everything.

We did thirteen songs in thirteen days, just her at the piano, recording her vocal nuts it.

If I wanted a kick drum, I made her play it.

I made her go If I wanted bass, I gave her a bass, gave her the song, said go home, you learn how to play the bass, and come back.

And because no one, not me, I never touched her songs except for raise the Key maybe and sped it up or slowed it down.

But if something needed to be played, I made her play it.

You know, acoustic guitar, and she's never play bass, never played acoustic guitar anyway.

So the moral of this story is she's fourteen now and I'm still mentoring her and this kid is incredible.

And then she got we let her play at this We went, we took the company and all the artists to Shia Day, which is an advertisement company, and we were doing this you know you don't We're we're not gonna wait for you to come to us, We're going to go to you kind of things.

So we did a showcase with all our artists.

Guess who they picked Willa Her name is Willa am I.

They picked her for this big campaign for quick books and we had to do this version of a harder, faster, big, better.

Stronger, harder faster.

But I mean it was the weirdest song they wanted organic and so we did it, number one Shazam song.

They paid for a radio tour for her, you know, And but I'm still holding back.

I'm still not leting her, you know, doing them, still like she's got to learn, you know you label since yes, but after that it was like she wanted it and and I was like, I gotta see, I gotta understand what I'm dealing with I can't put you out there, kid, and she's like, I want it, I want it.

But she looks like she's like.

Maybe eighteen or nineteen.

Her voice and the way she writes songs.

So I played Jimmy iving this song that she wrote before Jimmy, you know, took off.

I play him the song Scars that she wrote, and he I, you know, I've known Jimmy a very long time and I've never had this experience with him.

He was just like lit up.

And he turns around and he looks at me and he's like, you know what you got?

And I'm all what He's like, you got the cool Taylor Swift.

He's like, congratulations, finally, you know.

But it's like, but the thing is, she's been in playing with bands.

She knows what a rehearsal room is, she knows how to play in front of five people.

Now she's going to do this radio show in Vegas, you know, you know, with Jewel, And I mean it's like I've been baby stepping her all the way and not letting it get too far.

So it's out of her hands.

It's only moving this fast because she wants it.

But she's capable of handling, but I'm still holding it back.

She's still fourteen.

But anyways, that's my point.

So you know what I did with her.

I nurtured her.

I got her to a point so she understood what it was like to write songs and be in a rehearsal room.

You know, did interviews, did fake interviews, been you know, photoing her, you know, getting following her and helping her, you know, understand who she is.

And this girl knows who she is.

So the answer you're fucking long winded, I'm so, is yes, we need to bring back development.

Yes it's called development.

Where do you have the patience for that?

Because now I almost feel like, of all the episodes we've done, this is the episode I've been waiting for it because I have no patience whatsoever to put in the work to develop people, to listen to people, to like all the nineteen jobs.

Well no, no, no, but part of me like not really want to.

I just to babysit and you know, the motherfuckers I got a babysit y.

Yeah right, And that's the thing.

It's just like it takes you really have to care as a person.

And I know you're like, I'm blunt, I'm honest with you and whatever, but it's like you obviously you care.

Where is it?

How did you not even even after uh the rise of the Fast Rise of Four Non Blondes and you guys selling seven seven million units of that album?

Like, how did you not between ninety five and when Pink called you ninety nine?

Would you say, like, how are you not bitter or angry about the situation of of what happened in between that time that led you to where you are now where you're giving back in your your patient and you know how to coach people, teach us how to care about people.

Well, I keep hearing about this whole empathy thing and I just don't.

Well, let me tell you this.

So when you say, I believe when you are honest, you do care, Like you care enough.

You know, most people don't care, so they won't be honest because caring, being honest takes energy.

So just remember it that way.

We do care when we're talking and we're being honest.

Wait, can I add something in our part of the on our side of the tracks?

Okay, honestly gets you shot, not necessarily Okay, this dog if okay, take take the mister Magic Carris one situation of eighty six.

Now let's just take it to let's let's go to nineteen ninety nine.

Like you know, you say something can't feel a certain way.

It's almost like I feel when people come to me like yo, yo, guess before you real quick.

It's almost like I don't think you want my honest opinion.

I think you want a sign.

Yeah, like you want me to.

Champion you, right, But that that's honesty right there.

But I think that what I would hope that we.

Learn, let's turn me off.

Like I can say that maybe six people in my entire twenty five years, six people have I've actually just said, Okay, I feel something here, I'll listen to it, and it's changed my life, like his band and five other people.

And but now I'm thinking about, wow, those those thousand other like John Legend is one of those people.

Is like, I gave you all a chance, and y'all didn't hear me.

But I digress.

I think he didn't come up to me.

He might have went to Tarik.

But I'm saying, like you're willing to jump in the pool and you're willing to to get dirty with them?

Well, I have a mission.

I'm on a mission.

Like to me, what is your mission?

My mission is I love.

Music and everything that falls under it, Like it is my job and duty as one of these people in this business to protect it, you know.

So honesty to me is protecting the it's you know, the integrity of music and helping out more in people and raising the bar.

I mean, come on, guys, I mean, let's just all face it.

The bar is so fucking low a fucking amp can't crawl under it right now.

You know.

It's like, but there's great stuff, but you know, I'm just talking about in general, there's a low bar.

There's no entry level, Like there ain't no classes.

Yeah, well, like with the music industry, like it accepts all kinds and so there's no kind of regimen or anything that you have to follow.

Like with you, like just that stir you're telling about how you developed your artists and was like, Yo, go write five songs, Go write six songs.

That is something that is totally foreign in on our side of the world with hip hop, because hip hop is automatically just seen as something that you can just jump in.

Well, I think though, if we so for me, the patients.

I didn't have a lot of patients in for non blowns.

I learned patients.

I learned a lot, you know, as much as I could say that, you know, that experience, I wasn't.

I didn't like the album, you know, persn't like that.

I didn't like No.

I probably listened to the album maybe three or four times.

It was a hard album to listen to because it's not it didn't reflect who I was and writing, production, the production and just yeah, the sound was just again I didn't know, but I was just drawn to sound.

It didn't sound like Zeppelin and it didn't sound like the Beatles.

It sounded like this washed down kind of thin kind of weirdness, you know.

Going in in your mind.

What did you want that album to be before you hit note number one?

You know, was this going to be your house?

Is it the Holy Like?

No, No, I didn't.

I wasn't experienced something like this was the first band I was I have ever been in.

Like when I was in San Francisco, I played acoustic.

It was solo.

It was Linda Perry solo act.

And I was kind of developing a name around San Francisco as this girl you call that could get up on stage, and I was powerful, you know.

I was like small and got up on it.

And people liked having just a you know, acoustic act jump up on stage because you didn't have to do all the changeovers, you know.

So I would jump up and I started getting a really big name.

And that's how this band found me.

They were already a band and they asked.

Me to join.

So when I joined the band, you know, I was just it seemed fun and I didn't really have any intention except for I just knew earlier on in my life I was going to be somebody, whether that's a tennis player, police officer, or whatever.

I was going to be somebody that people were going to know.

And so that's all I geared my my life.

My journey was always on that I'm going to be somebody.

So when four non blocs happened, I just quickly figured out, like, oh, these are the things I don't like.

These are you know, Like I didn't like the band constantly being upset at me because I was getting more attention than they were.

And I would say, well, why don't you guys fucking you know, write a song At three o'clock in the morning, like I'm doing, and then you can have songwriting.

Because they were mad that I wouldn't give them songwriting credit on songs that I was writing.

I'm like, I'm not.

Not, you know.

So I was kind of a dick, you know.

In for non Blunde, I was angry all the time.

I didn't like being told what to do.

I wanted to perform when I wanted.

I was very rebellious, you know, and you know, I've walked out many situations that I should not have, you.

Know, done.

And finally I got to a point on the second record and said I can't do it.

I had written all these great songs that were more like The Wall, you know and Pink Floyd the Wall, and and it was very you know, it was deep, it was it just filled my soul, you know, in my and my voice was lower.

I was like just brooding and unhappy and depressed, and but it was beautiful to me, you know.

And they were like, uh, where can you guys?

Can you write.

Something a little more like our old album, our last record, And I said, fuck you, no, I can't, you know.

And then I went to the label and said please let me out.

So eventually out of being a little crazy to Tom Wally.

Tom Wally let me out of the deal, Sokerton.

What do you call that?

Yeah, I pulled a good one on him, and you know it was pretty funny.

But so the patients came through that those years.

You know, I learned what I didn't like about being in for no Blons, I learned what I did like.

I learned that I was way more powerful as a collaborator and someone who could be patient with people, and and that the the girl that was not collaborating, that had the ego that was just you know, throwing everything down and not being patient, was the weaker me.

So I just I just jumped into my power.

So that space in time allowed me to learn a little bit about who I was and what I was capable of doing.

So the universe then sent me Pink and everything that followed.

So were you thrown off when she called you?

You said, she calls you out the blue?

Yeah, she left me a message.

I got this message because my girlfriend at the time was her makeup artist, or her friend was her makeup artist or anyways, So she just left me a message.

You know, is this Lenna Perry.

This is my name's Pink, and I want to write a song with you or you sing on my album, and if you don't call me back, I'm gonna come stock you.

If I got your number, I can find your address.

You know something crazy life.

Yeah, you're just like and it changed mine, you know, and it really it made me a collaborator.

And then you know, from then is that was the downfall because immediately after that, I ran into Christina Aguileraa in a in a club and Dallas Austin just played like he was trying to impress her with what he did on Pink's record, but instead it every time she picked a song, who did that one?

He was like, that's Linda Perry.

Who did that one?

Linda Perry.

So it was pretty funny that.

So I, you know, I saw her sitting alone.

First of all.

That was kind of strange.

She was alone.

Friends were in a bodyguard right in front, and she waved.

You know.

I came as hey, you know I met her once and she's like, you know, let her in, and so I said, how you doing.

She'sa liked blah blah blah, and she's like, I love the stuff that you did with Pink.

I'm like, oh great, I go I heard your working on an album and she's like, yeah, I go.

Hey, if I were you, I would really use that darkness, that depression that you got going on, because it probably listen, everybody knows that you can sing, but no one knows that you actually can feel what you're singing, and it really will come in to benefit your your your sadness.

And she just like, I mean, And then I was like, oh, I see you later, and then I started leaving and then my friend he's like, what did you just say to Christina Aguilar.

I'm like why, and he's like, because she's watching you and her mouth is on the ground, and I'm like, well, I just told her that people want to, you know.

And then she called me a week later, you know, and that obviously it was not my intention.

I was just being honest, but you know, so theirs were for me.

And then I love Christina.

We collaborated and done some incredible things together, but I call her on her stuff all the time.

How did you manage to get that performance of beautiful out of her?

Because I know that what you managed to do for that song, like I know that you know from what I know of Christina, Oh, you were on that album too.

I forgot.

Yeah, yeah, I forgot I was on that album.

All right.

Yeah, here's my thing.

My thing is that the thing that I'm most impressed about that song is the fact that you took her defensing, her shield away, because I feel like her flexing her going from zero to sixty on the audiobar like instantly.

The fact that you took all that away and just left her vulnerable at least, that was my impression in hearing Beautiful.

How were you able to keep the record people at Bay, and keep Christina's management at Bay and Christina herself at Bay and pull that performance out of her?

Because I would have instantly thought hearing the song, okay, it's Grammy time.

That's her diva moment, you know, gown, She's gonna open the Grammy Sparkles, sing the shit out, Mariah, the shit out that song.

And you didn't.

How did you pull the layers away and get that particular performance out of her?

It is completely organic.

I wish I could, you know, say that I did something amazing, But the truth is I said that, you know, she wanted the song.

I had already written the song, and.

I said, well, in order to get this, I need to hear you sing it, because you know, when I wrote the song, it was me, you know, and my insecurities of not feeling like a beautiful person, you know, and the using those words to try to find some kind of strength, you know, using those words Linda, you're beautiful.

Come on, don't worry, don't listen to what other people say, like the real moment for me.

So I'm looking at this girl that has it all, that's you know, pretty and popular.

It's like, there's no fucking way this girl is gonna understand and relate to this song.

So I said, Okay, I need to hear you sing it.

So again recorded her vocal right in that other room over there and sat with the piano.

I put the piano down, and then she brought a friend, you know, So I was like.

She came back a week later and said, okay, and I need to hear you sing it.

So what gave her the lyrics?

And she sat there and this is truth.

I just pushed play and I go, you're good, and she's like yeah, And she had the demo to work with at home, you know, and she's all nervous, and I push and record, and then she literally says to her friend, don't look at me.

You know something about that It showed me, Oh, she's just like me.

You know, she might look different than I do, but she is exactly she feels the same.

And then she sang that song from start to finished, and then I got chills and I said, that's my vocal.

And she's like, she's like, she's like, what do you mean that's the vocal.

I'm like, that's my fucking vocal.

I knew it, and she was like no, you know, I'm like whatever, and so I just, you know, just whatever.

So I built then I built the track around that.

So I got the strings, I played live, had a live band.

We've sat there and to the click and just played to her vocal and because all she was singing to was a piano, and so I just knew that was my vocal.

There's no way she was going to be able to do that again.

And you can hear you know the paper, you know, And and so there was two things in the bridge we needed to hit.

There was two high notes that she's like, please, can I at least get those?

I'm like yeah, And then she wanted to re sing the whole song seven months, you know, bugging me and I'm like no, no, no.

And then finally, so we go to it on Conway or whatever.

I'm like, okay, let's go get these two notes.

And she was like, no, can I just sing it?

I know I can sing it better.

I go, I know you can sing it better, but that's not what's needed.

So I was like, she's like, just give me a chance.

So I'm like okay, so I push, you know, and.

She's like, every dam last stopped.

I just stopped.

And she's like, what are you doing.

I'm like, you're fucking it up already, you know, And she's like, you're right.

And then she she finally just got she just you know, she's you're right, I'm gonna ruin it.

Yeah, it was too.

It was too.

I love singers when they don't reach yep and no one.

People rarely trust that process.

Like I can't wait for the day when Mariah realizes that.

I mean, just everyone who sangs, I can't wait for them to realize that because I feel like that's a defense shield, Like you're handing me your resume, and this is what I can do.

All these acrobatic things I can do in thirteen sets sing the damn Medaldy, Yeah, and people don't trust it.

Like if you listen to Aretha Franklin's version of a song for You, the way that she mangles the words bad rhyme, she literally she sings it flat and off key as the character of the song.

I know she was just saying I say something bad round or whatever.

But to me, it's like I love when singers go dry, but it's so hard to convince them not to do otherwise.

And I know that for her, her go to thing is instantly and I was like, how did you manage that miracle?

So she just thought she was doing a drive run through and that was it.

Yeah, And it did.

And it was interesting because you know, I think she came out with that dirty song first and they pull that shit so fast and it was like beautiful just went right in and you know, in a sense, saved the day.

But the wonderful thing about that it really did get people to experience her in a different way and I and I feel really proud, more proud in that moment because no matter what anybody wants to say about Christina, and believe.

Me, you know, I get on her.

But she knows that.

But she is a very very talented girl.

Like there's it's crazy her ears like you could have a sixty piece orchestra, eight piece band, whatever going on, singers, gospel, all of it.

And she will hear the one violin that went out of tune at this spot and she, you know, will go, what's that?

And I'll go, what do you mean?

And I hear it, but she's but I'm thinking, there's no fucking way she can hear that.

And she's like right there, and I'm like, we're right here, and I'll test her again, and I'll go and see if she's just saying things, and I'll test it again and she sas like, no, not there.

I'm like right there, and it'll be I'll solo everything, and there's like a violin that's just out Like her, she's very very talented, and but she doesn't trust her talent enough.

And that's what happens with a lot of these you know artists, you know, these singers, they don't trust themselves.

Like when Aretha goes on stage, Aretha sings from her heart.

When Janis Joplin got on stage, she reached out, closed her eyes and she was channeling god knows what, but it wasn't singing.

She was feeling, you know.

And I think that's the part that everybody keeps forgetting.

They keep forgetting there's an emotion attached to these lyrics.

But here's here's the thing that's gonna really blow up everything for you guys.

Janis Joplin, you know, Aretha is gonna be a different story.

But right now you have to understand a lot of these girls aren't writing these songs and these lyrics, so they don't have any emotional connection.

Now, why my songs with artists sound so good is because I always demo them, even with the Alicia Alicia Keith is love the way I sang, She's like, can you demo that you know for me?

And just love my my where I drop things, my phrasing, my emotion, because I could.

I'm a you know, I feel you know, I'm in it.

I don't care.

I don't care if there's one person here or a million.

I will give you the greatest show you've ever experienced because it's just what I do.

It's who I am.

But these girls don't know that experience.

They don't understand because First of all, they don't have the experience of playing to people and getting that feedback, you know, and they don't they're not writing these songs, so they don't know how to give and deliver.

They don't know how to deliver these songs because they don't.

And then the people who are writing it, they're just getting session singers to sing it straight.

And that kink dank dunk thank ding ding thing, you know, like this the you know, like.

Fucking what's his fight?

You know, fucking ass the doctor Luke and is the same fucking lyric over and over the same and you know, the same fucking format, their arrangement, the same content, the same tone, the same everything.

That motherfucker gives the same song over and over and over, and that's what these girls are hearing.

But it's going number one.

It's going fucking number one.

It's all over the place.

So they're just they're used to being robots.

They're not used to singing like Aretha God Forbid.

And did you guys ever see the Divas.

With Theretha Clean Carrey and Glory Sevon.

It was the did you see that moment where it was so I mean I laughed, it was so awesome, and they're all singing the song, and then they're all stepping in taking there, and then Aretha just.

Gets right in from them, and it's almost like it's a sing off.

And then I think Lean was the last one, and then they all just trickle off because you can't compete with Aretha Franklin because she's coming from a different place, Like that voice is coming from a.

It's not she's not singing, she's she's she's having an experience.

She's excusing your emotions, you know, And that's what we're missing right now.

Well, what about the singer songwriter girls that are like really popular now, what about like the I'm scared to say these names.

We'll see the scissors, the hers and I love and then before them.

I still there's there's still some singer songwriters out there, like Jill, there's the Erica's, there's the Marsha Ambrose's.

They don't get to shine, but there are some.

I just wanted to at least say that name.

The thing is also and the common the common uh denominator with we can go to we can go to Phyllis, we can go to Whitney, we can go to UH like a lot of these women are also you know, when they're first presented, it's kind of like, you know, they're the first lady, they're the princess of a particular label head.

Yeah, a label head that takes them, and then you know, it's like, eh, fifteen years later, you're kind of disposable.

And I feel as though oftentimes they're like a racetrack and they're either looking in their rearview mirror or they know that someone's behind them.

It usually happens they Clydes Grammy party every year, right, whenever he presents whoever the next right.

And So what I'm asking is, and I know you have relationships with a lot of these label heads, so without necessarily totally throwing them under the bus, but I feel like I won't even ask you, do you feel like I feel like we need a complete overhaul.

And I asked this question of Jimmy jam and also of Usher.

Are you willing to eventually one day stop being the creative and be the new run Fair and be Jimmy Ivan?

Right?

But I mean to the place, But I still feel like their level of hierarchy, It's like, right now, it's either you're either dealing with Jimmy Ivan or you're dealing with who's head of Sony.

No, I don't have right or r C eight like it's like whoever the main three are.

And almost feel as though we have to completely once we overhaul that system and replace them with people who are actual that get their hands dirty, you know what I mean.

No more lawyers running the companies.

Yeah, Well, to let you know what I'm doing right now at a company called we are Here, and we're a record label.

We're a publishing company, and we manage I manage an artist named Dorothy, that's rock Nation.

I manage a girl named Angel Hayes.

You guys might know.

Okay, we have Willa, this fourteen year old, and she's also on the label.

I have on the label artist from UK named Lyon, a guy named Pete Mullinari from UK as well, and Natasha Beddingfield and I'm working on her album.

So the whole point of this record company was to develop artists.

Dorothy Willa, you know, we're developed.

Even though she's on Rock Nation, she might as well, you know, not be on a label because you know, we're doing more work than they are.

And I love Benny.

I think he's great.

But you know right now that man's afraid of me right now, you know, because I have to get on them so much about I don't know what you guys are doing.

But this is a rock and roll act.

And you don't put a single out every day, you know, it's like you build and work an album.

Right, So they're getting it and now they're stepping up to the table.

But so the purpose of the label is so our management agreements are basically handshakes.

If you don't, if you're not with, if you don't, if you're not happy, we're doing something wrong.

I don't want to hold myself to you.

Our record deals are like my son can read the contract.

They're like, you know, paper thin, just like you know, really just like four five pages in that we're developing them, we're with them.

The publishing deal I just signed a deal with I have a partner, Carrie Brown is my partner, and we just did a deal with Peer Music JV for all our songwriters.

I have a deal.

Distributing with Universal in Germany.

It's a JV.

And so a lot is going on and the whole purpose.

We just bought a record pressing plant so I can press records, and we're going to have shows there and if you're not capable of playing a show on your own, and because it's going to go right to record, it goes right to vinyl, we can record right to the lay.

And then we just bought a store front right on Ventura Boulevard in Studio O City, and it's going to be our offices up on top and downstairs will be our record store.

We're gonna have merch, we're gonna have a We're going to have a stage and a recording studio there that is going to be for kids to come there and meet other kids that want to be in bands.

You can showcase your material there.

Our doors will always be open for anybody to come in and to express themselves, listen to records, and all the records that we make from our vinyl, the live records will be available that we are here.

We're building a community.

So I want to get done with the Natasha record.

I have one other thing i gotta do and then I'm done in here.

And then I'm what does that mean?

I'm done in here?

That means I'm getting myself out of the songwriter.

I'll always be a songwriter.

But producer out of the studio and then I will run my label.

Right now, I'm I'm, I'm, you know, David's here to help me make sure that I'm not missing anything.

I'm on the phone.

I call radio station.

Like our our artist Dorothy, I called radio station because she's a rock act.

Breaking a rock act is hard, you know, and so there's a different way.

So I called radio stations myself.

Hey, you know, this is Linda, what right I manage an artist named Dorothy?

And I want to give you know, I want you to hear it and see what you think.

And I would love to do something with you guys, and would love your support.

I can't believe you're calling us.

And I'm like, well, radio was really good to my band, and I want to make sure that my artists understand how valuable radio is still today, you know, and they love it.

We bring our artists in, I mean, so I've developed all these you know, we got Dorothy all way up to number eight on the rock charts, and then it was only rock Nation that fucked that all up by not paying for the next round of installment for a radio promotion, and we lost it.

And they were going into number five.

We were going in top five, and those motherfuckers pulled it without telling us, and my god, that man got such a reaming, you know, and that he came into my studio with his tail between his legs.

And they understand what they did wrong.

They didn't understand at the time, but they didn't believe us.

They didn't believe that we'd get her to top twenty, you know.

And then we got to top twenty, we got to top ten, and we're going to number five.

We're going to number five anyways.

But so that's what I'm talking about.

I'm a manager, I'm a label executive, and I'm a songwriter.

But all of it goes together because my bigger fight is not in here.

My bigger fight is out there.

And so yes am I that right now?

I can call anybody I want and probably get them on the telephone.

But am I Jimmy Ivy No?

But will I be at the level Jimmy Ivy?

Yes I will.

And I'm my label, But my label is doing something very different right now.

We're doing some really great things and it's about community.

It's about you know, these kids, it's about showing that you do care and with a little bit of patience.

You can go a long way with an artist because it takes just a little bit for them to last a long time.

You know.

I feel happy.

It's beautiful what you're doing.

I love it.

It sounds amazing.

Thank you.

Wow, I'm super light.

Well, thank you very much for talking to us today, Honor.

Thank you well, ladies and gentlemen.

On behalf of Team Supreme Boston on Paid Bill Sugar Steve fan Diagolo and it's a yah.

I'm sorry.

I didn't mean to mangle your name like that.

All right, thank you very much once again you for having me.

I'm actually going to listen to this episode and yeah, sympathy.

Everything.

You can start with that, and.

Thank you anyway.

This Quest Loves signing off Quest of Supreme only on Pandora.

Thank you.

Courest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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