Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Perspective Checks, where I sit down with friends and folks from the TT RRP G community to talk about all the things we love, or Travis crazy, or get us excited or make us want to dive further into this indie hole that we go down, uh, in Ttrp g's.

And I am very excited to be joined this week by Willow, AKA, the RPG Goblin, A-T-T-R-P-G content creator, and has a podcast, although I know you're, uh, slowly moving away from that, but a great backlog of great conversations.

Willow, thank you for coming on.

How's it going?

I, I'm, I'm doing great.

Um, thank you so much for inviting me on again.

Um, I just think this is really awesome.

I haven't been on the, like, interviewee side of many shows, so I think it's really fun to like, be on that side more.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I, I.

I'm doing great and I'm excited because like, I mean, you just saying at the beginning here, you know, talking about TT rrp, just T-T-R-P-G stuff that you just can't get out of your head and that you wanna dive into further and all of that, that's basically my entire life.

Right.

Um, because like I swear every single time that like I, I find a nugget of A-T-T-R-P-G thing that I love.

I'm like, man, this is now my personality for the next like day.

Um, that was me with Land of eam when I like read.

The fricking coin economy section, and I'm like, this is awesome.

It was one page.

So, you know, I, I appreciate this as a show a lot, and I'm just really happy to be here.

Yeah.

And I, and I'm so glad you know, you're back after a hiatus, right?

Uh, yes.

Having taken a little bit of time off, but you're, you're diving right back in, so I'm super excited you came on.

Exactly.

I, I am, I am hyped because it's been about a year and like a year of not being able to really dive into a hobby that you love.

It takes a bit of a toll on you and mm-hmm.

I am, I'm happy to finally be back in a place where I can get into it.

So this is a great start to, again, getting back into it.

So just awesome.

All around.

And, uh, and I think we share a very similar like, mission statement in our, just like, internet presence around games.

So I'm very excited.

It's more new TT Forgs.

Yes.

So, and, and we're, we're gonna get to that topic in a minute, but I always open the interviews with the same three questions for all guests, just to kind of get to know people and mm-hmm.

People listening can kind of get a, a baseline of, of who we're talking to.

So the first question is always a, the simple one.

How long have you been playing Ttrp g's, or been around the hobby?

All right, so I think I, I sort of did the math for it the other day 'cause I was trying to even remember myself.

Like, how long have I been doing this?

I wanna say it's been for eight or nine years that I've like, okay.

Been into TT, RRP G started to play them.

I started off with d and d around the time that I was like, I don't know, 13, I think.

Oh wow.

13.

So a veteran really.

I mean, like, it's funny to say that though, but like really comparatively, right?

Yeah.

I's that you do have, I mean, it's been a bit, um, yeah.

Now I started decently young and um, I've had breaks in between where like, you know, life stuff happened, you know, pandemic, like, you know Yeah.

Kinda shut down most T-T-R-P-G stuff, especially since I played in person for the majority of like when I got started, but I think it's been about eight to nine years and I think like it's been two that it's been like TT RPGs outside of DD two or three.

Yeah, because like DD was like kind of the thing for such a long time.

Yeah.

And we'll talk about it later, um, about like how I even got introduced to other games.

But yeah, I think that's been how long it is, which is really wild to think about because mm-hmm.

Like that's a long time to have been playing these games and that's really awesome.

Yeah.

To be playing, to be playing these games in general.

Right.

TT pgs and then.

It's funny when you think about the progression of it and how long you played, really, like one game.

Mm-hmm.

And then as soon as that door opened, like you said, like two years.

Yeah.

For those of you who can't see, it's a audio format, but both of us have shelves behind us.

Just massive, very stacked shelves full of all the fun, pretty little games.

It's, and you know, and some people it just, it just, it clicks when that happens and it's, it's one of those things that, uh.

You dive in and you, you just don't even look back.

And that is your whole life.

Yeah.

Um, going forward, so speaking of the next question that we always ask is, what have you been playing lately?

So, I actually haven't really been playing any, like, proper T-T-R-P-G, like games with people at least mm-hmm.

For the past like year.

Um, again, like I, I've been on a hiatus for a while.

Um, I, I moved about a year ago.

I also had a very big fallout with my last gaming group that happened around the same time.

And then we moved into a house that needed a lot of renovation.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and, you know, just, it's been busy, busy life the whole time and I haven't really had the ability to get anything started, but I have been playing some other things.

So Cory Co.

For example.

Yeah.

It's such a good game.

I, I'm so happy that I've backed that project and I got the box set and it's just gorgeous.

It's so, yeah.

It's gorgeous.

For sure.

I wish that like every T-T-R-P-G came with like a cute little box set with all its themed dice and any little like, play material that you need.

Like it just makes my goblin heart so happy because like it just completes the whole experience.

But I've been playing Cori Co recently and that's been really fun.

That's like the second solo game that I've like properly sat down and played.

Um, and the only other things that's like been going on like the last year is I played some cottages and Cerus.

Okay.

Um, that's a really fun, cozy, monster hunting game We did, uh, like, I don't know, three sessions of that, so nothing super long, but that's been really fun.

Um, and then I also did a small dive into bunkers and bad asses, and basically they had like, okay.

Two sessions session, but it was really awesome.

Um, and that's pretty much what I've had going on like the last year, Cory CO's the most recent thing and thing that I'm currently playing.

Um, and I'm hoping to actually get a game started up soon because I am starting to get that itch again.

Yeah.

And yep.

Oh, I hear you.

Yeah.

As if I'm not busy enough.

I, I have one home group, I have obviously my solo stuff that I'm always doing.

Mm-hmm.

But a local cafe just opened in my hometown, which is Oh heck yeah.

And like as far as.

Northeastern US is concerned.

It's, it's very densely populated, but I moved to like as much of the woods as I could swing.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean?

So I'm in a little bit of like a desert of things to do and this nerd cafe opened and I'm like, I gotta go there and get a game going.

Like, I gotta like meet some randos and just be like, I'm gonna start a game and it's not DD who's coming with me.

You know?

Exactly.

You, you'll be, you'll lead them through the woods Yeah.

Of non D and DT RPGs.

Yeah.

And it'll be a magical experience.

That's the dream.

Right.

And so that segues very well.

The third question we always open with, which is what are we talking about today?

What we are talking about today?

Oh man.

I'm really excited because we are gonna be talking about exploring TT RPGs and actually like finding ones that match you.

Yeah.

This is something that I've been thinking about a lot recently and like the different priorities people have when they're looking at games and like figuring those out and being able to mm-hmm.

You like, if you know like, Hey, theme is something that really matters to me in a TT RPG, being able to know that matters.

And when you are looking at TT RPGs, look at the ones that actually called to you immediately and not the ones that you think are just popular and things like that.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so like DD that was one for me.

That was the popular thing.

I never jived really with the high, with the like fantasy stuff that was never a genre that really was my thing, but it was just what everyone else was playing.

So that's what I started to play.

And so I feel very strongly about, um, exploring new games and finding ones that actually match.

Your desires for a game, because I think that just elevates the whole experience.

And so that's what we're gonna be talking about.

Heck yeah.

I didn't even think about this when I was drafting.

'cause those of you who listen know that I'm really, I have to like organize everything, right?

Like everything I have is like in like Google Sheets spreadsheets, and I'm a little over the top with it all.

But like when I, I mean, no wonder you play solo games so well too.

Like you got everything lined up.

I'm good at bookkeeping.

Yeah, exactly.

But when I reach out to people or when we, when I link up with people to have on for interviews, I, I just have to make like bullet point lists of like, here's some ideas that like I thought might be good jumping off points and we'll go off on tangents or whatever.

I didn't even think about the fact that.

There's, I, I forget who came up with it.

Maybe it's Robin Laws, but there's like a, the types of gamers.

Have you seen that thing, right?

Yeah, I, I've seen that type of stuff before.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Where it's like the strategist.

Mm-hmm.

And like, you know, like the role player.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, the, the action person, right?

Like there's mm-hmm.

There's like eight different types of gamers, really.

And like, there's su I've seen that even for like game masters and stuff too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you're usually like two of them.

Right.

But I didn't think about that and how much that really does play into something like finding the RPGs that either, because, you know mm-hmm.

I'm these, and I like this, therefore I'm not gonna like d and d because I don't care about midmaxing and, and you know, the numbers.

Right.

Or because something might surprise you that you didn't realize is right up your alley.

Mm-hmm.

And all you needed to do was look and, you know, and, and see something new.

But, um, yeah.

That's very cool.

And that's why I think like experimenting and just like I.

Going out and just finding some games and whether it be reading them or mm-hmm.

Watching other people play 'em or listening to other people play them or play them yourself.

Like, I think it's so important to start experimenting with games that are outside of your comfort zone and things that will.

I don't know if it seems interesting enough for you to pick up, then I think it's interesting enough to play and see if it's something that jives with you.

Especially because I don't think a lot of people, um, really think about what is my play style when it comes to ttrp gs.

Like there are things out there that are, you know, these are the eight different types of players, um, player archetypes and things like that.

But not everyone take this quiz.

But like that, everyone knows about that and not everyone even thinks about it as this is, this says something about what you enjoy about games, you know?

Mm-hmm.

If you really love the storytelling elements and you love having downtime and TT RPGs and exploring those interpersonal relationships and building up maybe like a, um.

Base of operations and like really getting into those aspects.

You might not love DD, you might like wander home.

Right, right, right.

Stew Pott.

Not OSR.

Right.

St.

Stupot.

Yes.

I literally just bought Stew Pott yesterday.

I am so fricking excited.

I love Yeah.

Is insane.

I, yeah, I'm just, so, I, I, yeah.

I just remembered that it's happening.

It's time for Cozy, right?

Like let's go.

Exactly.

Um, yeah, and I, I, it made me think of another thing just now too with, um, you said just pick up new games and either try them.

Obviously not everybody has the opportunity to sit at a table, you know, maybe you go to a convention and you just go, I'm gonna give it a shot.

But like, there's problems with that, right?

Like, you might sit at a table where you're like, this isn't even about the game.

It's about the people or, or what have you.

You feel uncomfortable with it, with whatever, but there's a lot of value to just reading a game.

And I think you said that like, I agree.

Just read it, right?

Just read it and you might.

A, a light bulb might go off.

Right.

That is actually funny enough, that is what happened with me when it came to getting introduced to T RPGs outside of d and D.

So I played d and D for the longest time.

That was most of my play experience.

I played in several longer term campaigns, one shots, whatever.

I've run stuff.

I had other people run stuff, et cetera.

And also part of my D-T-R-P-G experience was listening to the Adventure Zone.

That was mm-hmm.

What kind of really got me started like knowing what T TPGs were, because I never had anyone around me that like, like I didn't have family that played it for a while, or any cool cousins that played it.

Yeah.

Or anything like that.

Like my, yeah.

Experience was, um, my brother listening to the adventure zone, finding a local game.

And then I'm like, that kind of sounds interesting.

So I listened to the podcast, Ooh, this is fun.

And then I joined that.

So it was something that kind of happened a lot more spontaneously.

Mm-hmm.

And I love the first, um, campaign where they play d and d and then I loved the second campaign where they played Monster of the week and they did this whole, whole amnesty.

Yeah, amnesty, underrated.

Am I love amnesty.

And so when I listened to that amnesty for the first time, I did not comprehend that it was a different game because mm-hmm.

In my eyes it was like, oh yeah, you know, TT RPGs are, you know, that's just d and d.

Like that's just what Rule 20 Ad number, right?

Yeah.

Or rule, rule D 20 ad number.

Or like, you decide a different D, okay, fine, cool, whatever.

Like, awesome.

I didn't really understand the fact that there were different games that had different systems and that it was actually laid out.

Differently like that, that they were actually different.

So yeah, at some point provide very different experiences.

Yes.

Right.

Like by design.

And, and so at, at one point I decided, okay, what is this monster of the week game?

Because like, it clicked when I was re-listening to it, where like, okay, this is actually different.

I found Monster of the Week online.

I wasn't even sure if I was finding the right book.

I'm like, I, I don't know what I'm doing here, but this, this sounds like what it is.

I'm gonna order it then I'm, I'm just going to, I don't know, check it out.

Like it seems like a cool game.

Um, I like Supernatural.

I like Monster of the Week shows like that's fun.

And I read it.

And I'm not normally a huge reader.

I don't tend to like fiction books, but nonfiction has always been something that's been easier for me to consume.

And I'm like, man, I don't know if I'm really gonna like this.

We'll, we'll see.

And I sat down on Reddit for the first time and it blew my mind.

I'm like, oh my God.

Everything in this game is something that I have never seen before.

Mm-hmm.

So like there's just the amazement of that and then also realizing all of these mechanics like feed into telling these very specific stories about hunting monsters and trying to like really create that vibe and environment for the players and the GM to tell those stories.

And like, you know, not to say that like, you know, monster of the week has like flaws in itself, just like any game does.

Yeah.

Like it was my first experience of like reading a game and realizing this is a whole new thing that is designed to tell stories differently than what I am used to.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm used to like people hacking d and d to tell anything that they want.

Yeah.

And while you can do that, if, if you love d and d as a system and you jive with that and it's just your preferred method of play, perfectly fine.

I think it's fun.

I don't hate d and d, it's just not the thing that I want to play when it comes to, you know, almost anything else.

Yeah.

Like if you're like, Hey, let's run it.

Like, hey, let's play a game.

I'm gonna try and lobby for anything else.

Um, but, but, but also, I mean, like, it depends 'cause like, you know, we're gonna get into this where.

There is a huge subset of people who just don't realize, right.

That there's a different game.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

That, I mean, that was where I was for a very long time.

Right.

Or, or that the different games are not as monumental of a challenge to learn as five E.

Mm-hmm.

So they're afraid to try new games.

Right?

Yep.

But also, we'll get into this a little more, but I, this is a little preview of something I'm gonna talk about more later, which is like, I've had friends who are so deep in that d and d mm-hmm.

Walled garden effect of like, this is what it is.

That it was so funny to me that they were like, I have this idea for this sorcerer, and like I already have everything planned out.

Like I know what their levels and their, my choices are gonna be all the way up to like level eight or whatever.

And it was like, okay.

And like as a DM for D and DI was like, okay, I can like pave that road for you.

Yeah.

Right.

But then I tried to explain to them like PBTA.

Monster the week.

Mm-hmm.

Apo Apocalypse World, you know, thirsty sword, lesbians, whatever you want.

The playbooks, all the good ones do something.

Mm-hmm.

That I'm surprised DD doesn't do with its classes, which is kind of set you up on this very specific track.

Right?

Like you are going to experience a very specific story related to that playbook.

Mm-hmm.

Like and granted.

Everybody who plays that playbook is kind of going down the same path.

Mm-hmm.

But it's obviously gonna be very different, right?

Yeah.

Because it depends on what that game even is gonna look like.

Like what is your monster hunting game versus someone else's monster hunting game?

Every, yeah.

Every professional is gonna kind of play the same.

Mm-hmm.

But the specifics are gonna make it what shines.

Exactly.

And it's really funny how I've had a friend like bounce off of PBTA, 'cause they were just like, I don't like how much this is pigeonholing me into like this very specific thing.

And I was like, dude, you planned your sorcerer out for eight levels.

Like whatcha talking about, uh, imagine like you pigeonhole, imagine yourself, imagine like, you know what I mean?

Like.

So anyway.

Yeah.

Just kind of funny though.

I, I, I've definitely seen that as a criticism of like powered by the apocalypse and stuff and a lot of like, playbook based like systems.

Mm-hmm.

Um, because like, you know, I don't have all of this flexibility and like, you know, I wanna be able to do anything I want and like.

Again, I think that comes to what do you value as like what do you value in games?

What are you looking for in games, and what are the things that you enjoy in games?

And knowing that, hey, flexibility and having a lot of different options is something that's very important to you.

So powered by the Apocalypse might not be anything that you will enjoy because it's not something that's going to really like connect with you and your play style.

And something like d and d where, I mean, there's a lot of options.

There's a lot of subclasses.

Yeah.

And a lot of things like that.

I feel like there's ways that's.

That even can be very limiting personally.

Um, agreed.

Agreed.

Yeah.

But like a different kind, you know, you could go exactly, but like you then may find that Pathfinder is more up your alley, which is in that similar genre, but a different take on it.

You may find that like fate or, um, what cortex and mm-hmm.

Things like that may be, or, uh, cipher is the one I was wanting to say.

Um, maybe more up your alley if you find that you want a lot of options and the ability to really tell any story and you just kind of want to also have those options be narrative to mm-hmm.

And like tie in narratively, like that's gonna connect with you more than maybe like, you know, powered by the apocalypse as a huge PBTA stand.

I will say that I feel like I could sit down with a player who is like, I feel like I'm really like, stuck in here and be like, the wonderful about thing about this game and this whole engine is that like really.

It's narrative first, right?

Yeah.

Like you don't have to engage with like, uh, I had a conversation with somebody or I, I saw something about this where basically there's like a difference between certain kinds of games where, like for d and d, the answer to the obstacle is always on your sheet.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like you, you are always gonna look and be like, well, I have to either use one of these skills Yep.

Or I have to use one of my attacks, or I have to use one of my spells.

I have this spelled this thing.

The answer is on your sheet.

And like if you came up with something that you just wanted to do in the narrative and like explain something mm-hmm.

The game kind of pushes against you because you are going to have to choose one of those things on your.

Character sheet.

And also usually the options for just doing a random narrative thing are always gonna be way worse than what is just on your sheet.

So in the long run, it's not always going to be like actually worth doing that.

Like it's not gonna be worth grabbing this chair and throwing it at this guy.

Yeah.

Improvised whatever.

You could just like whacking with your sword.

Like it, it's always gonna suck.

Which is something that like, you know, I felt the combat can be very limiting because of that.

Because it's like, okay, I hit with sword, I hit with sword, I shoot off this spell cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, it's funny And like, and again, just to show the other side of that coin, like with something more freeform and narrative, like PBTA, you have your moves, which, which trigger on very specific.

When you do this very specific thing, this happens.

Yep.

But the beauty of it is that like you can just come up with something in the narrative and then be like, okay, like we're gonna roll just 2D six plus a stat and it's gonna, it's gonna be fine.

But when I saw one time I saw, I think it was.

This is the second time I've brought up a Bria Egar.

She's coming for me if she ever listens to someone as small as I am, but like, and to be fair, huge fan of her G Ming style and all this stuff.

But like at one point she gave advice on like a Dimension 20 thing or something where she was like, I made a flow chart of like what my character does in combat under certain circumstances.

I've seen that before.

Yeah.

And it's like.

Is that even fun anymore?

You know what I mean?

Like you really are just like consulting a flowchart.

Yeah.

To be like, what's my most optimal move?

Mm-hmm.

I, that's not, that's not fun storytelling.

That's just like, let's break this encounter and then move on to our more freeform improv again.

'cause that's what you do Well yeah.

And you're stuck in this framework of DD combat.

It's, it's just trying to best the combat, get it done as quickly as possible so that you don't have to be like, just, you know, playing around for forever and you get to the part that you actually wanna play.

Which is where, which is like, you could be playing a different game.

Yeah.

Well, you could be playing something else to where like, that's the whole point, like, you know, in, I've had many times where I've run, um, combat or, you know, just like.

Perilous encounters in other systems.

And I've had a four hour combat session in d and d before, but I will tell you what, I have not had a four hour session of combat in Monster of the week.

Um, oh, never.

Right?

That would be, I don't even know how you could physically do that.

Like, would you just do it like one after another?

And guess what?

It ends when people die because resources are limited.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But like, you know, I, I find that there's a lot of, like, I, I feel like I see that a lot when people talk about playing d and d.

'cause I, I've seen other people do that, make a flow chart or make, um, sheets or like, this is my move less of like, if this happens, I do this because that's the best option.

Well there can be a fun aspect to like, really figuring out the game there, like figuring out the game of the, the, the cool thing and the most optimal thing to do to get this done as fast.

That can be fun.

But I feel like a lot of people do it so that, you know, they know what to do when that comes because they do wanna get to the next thing.

Yeah.

And that does make me a little sad sometimes because like, if you feel like you kind of have to do all of this work to make a pretty large aspect of the game more enjoyable for you, it feels like you shouldn't be playing that game.

Mm-hmm.

And that's, and then it can get difficult, like you said, where it comes to, a lot of people don't really want to play any other game.

And so even if like one person's like, man, I really don't enjoy this 'cause I have to put all this work into combat just to make it a little bit enjoyable.

And you suggest to play something else if everyone else doesn't agree.

Well, there's not a lot that you can do to get out of that.

Um, unless you just find a whole new group, which means then finding people that you're comfortable playing with and you know, that work with you and you all have similar goals when it comes to your gaming once in all of that.

So that's the beauty of being the gm where you just go, you guys wanna play a game, cool.

Show up.

And I'm telling you, we're playing this game.

Like you don't have, that's, that's what I literally did.

Yeah.

Right.

And, and I don't, I don't disagree that I think that.

And there are certainly types of gamers, right.

That mm-hmm.

Enjoy that puzzle aspect of the combat.

Right.

But it also makes it feel like there's a right choice all the time.

Yeah.

And that that does make it feel a little worse, right?

Yeah.

Where you can be a little more freeform.

I found that in DD to be something that I disagreed with when like, especially, I was even just starting out, we were playing in a campaign where like we were fighting against devils and stuff and like I picked a character subclass.

I was playing a druid at the time and I decided to go circle of spores.

So necrotic damage and things like that.

And that's not very, just completely useless.

Yep.

Not very useful.

And that's like something I ran into d and d where I felt just kind of completely stuck because we were far enough in the game that I couldn't switch what I was doing.

And I wasn't made aware beforehand that this was going to be a thing because we were playing.

Water deep, uh, dragon heist.

And so there's mm-hmm.

Different bad guys that could, you could go into.

And so you just kind of see where you go.

Um, and that's just where we ended up going.

But like, it just felt this was the wrong choice.

Yeah.

Because now I'm basically put in a position where I'm useless like half of the time because like we're fighting up against these devils.

And I was like, cool, I'll use like all of my less optimal, optimal stuff and never use my class abilities because it's never going to be useful.

And that's, you know, while there are times in other TT RPGs where inability may not be useful or may not be relevant and stuff like that.

I just don't always feel like it's as punished.

Yeah.

And like, you know, you can't do anything.

You have to do all of these suboptimal things.

Like they'll be like, yeah, this isn't the like best choice, so you're gonna roll at disadvantage or, you know, maybe have something really bad happen, but it's not, yeah, you can still do it and you can at least still try, or there's other options because you aren't tied to just this subclass.

That is the thing that makes your character interesting because you have other options outside of that.

Yeah.

That reminds me of a, of a discussion I had with, uh, star from characters out stories.

Mm-hmm.

We did an episode on failure and her big, like, aha moment for failure and like why she branched into other RPGs was just the binary success fail of d and d feels really bad.

And when you learn that there are other games out there that are like, yeah, failure, but fail forward and, or also like every success can even come with complications.

You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm.

Like, and it's like there's this gradient of like, you're always moving forward, but there might be new obstacles in your way.

Exactly.

Whereas in DD, like nothing feels worse than being like, roll to do this thing.

Oh, I rolled like a two and the GM just goes, oh, okay.

Okay, nevermind.

Okay, okay.

Nevermind.

And like, just, just no feels so bad.

It that really, that really gets me, and that's maybe even something that I didn't even realize that pushed me towards other games more is that I was playing this DD one shots, um, and I was playing a spell caster.

Uh, I was doing a wizard, I think, and that was the first time I was playing a full spell caster before.

And it was just for this, it wasn't even a one shot, it was like a five shot.

I don't know.

It went on forever.

Yeah.

But it was, it was fun.

Um, and.

We fought against a big, big bad with like legendary resistance.

And so that's exactly what she talked about.

Mm-hmm.

She was like that and like saves, right?

Like it's just, there's no middle ground.

And, and, and to have it like, okay, you know, you get off this spell, you think you got it.

To then have the DM just say, Nope.

No.

And as, and as the spell caster, when like your only thing you can really do is, what do I do is cast the one spell during that round.

And then it's like, okay.

That didn't go off.

I guess I will just sit here for like 10 minutes until Yeah, it's my next turn and then we will go from there.

Yeah.

And then to sometimes even have that happen again, again, um, can be very annoying.

Um, yeah.

I definitely found that to be a moment in playing d and d where I'm like, okay, nope, I don't like how this works.

And that is why Tiered Success Systems.

Wow.

That's weird to say.

Right.

For it after.

Yeah.

Take tiered Success Systems are my beloved.

I love them so much.

That's why Powered By the Apocalypse has called to me.

Um, that's why I've found a lot of like, okay, this is really awesome.

I love that so much.

And that's also why I love Land of EAM because they expand on that even more and have, I don't know, they have like seven different like.

Levels of success slash failure that you can get.

And I think it's awesome 'cause each thing has its own plus or minus.

You know, you have success with a twist, but then failure with a plus.

So you have it like kind of on both ends and that's really fun.

But it just like adds more to the games.

And I think a lot more games actually give you that variety and give you more options that it's not just, okay, you fail next person.

Yeah.

And I found that to be a really tough thing, which I think also is why combat can be really slow and hard to get through.

Um mm-hmm.

Because it's like, oh yeah, okay cool, this hit now you wait.

And then, oh, cool, this doesn't hit.

You wait, and then like, it's just like, it's a waiting game the whole time on whether or not it's a yes or no, so.

Yep.

Yeah, it's, it's rough.

And, um, and this, this segues into a point that I wrote down here to talk about, and I think it works well.

It's like a lot of times people will notice this is a problem, right?

Mm-hmm.

And they'll go, I can home brew that.

And then home brew gets a little outta control.

And then somebody's like, well, we just finished a campaign and now I have a whole new idea for, I'm gonna run d and d and I'm gonna run it in the world of like my favorite TV show or like my favorite books and I'm gonna, and I'm gonna like write this thing and it's gonna be like, really interesting, but I'm gonna use five V for it.

And I've like done all this work and you're just sitting there going.

There's, there's literally a game that is so perfect for you.

There's like, please listen to me and just take this other game and try it.

And they go, no, no, no.

I don't know.

I don't wanna learn that game.

'cause I've done so much work for this.

The amount of times that I've seen people like, oh, I really wanna do like a call, a Cthulu game, but d and d Yeah.

I'm like, dude, it's, it's right there.

It's right there.

It's also only like two books max that you have to get versus d and d, you need at least three to run a proper game.

And I hear me out and now hear me out.

Or if they're like, oh, but I don't wanna play call Kaul 'cause that's too punishing or whatever because like then like, I'm never gonna have more than 12 hip points.

And like Kullu Eats four D six people like per turn.

It's like, well one, don't go up against Kullu.

Like that's absolutely insane of you.

And but two Pulp Cthulhu is right there.

That's true.

To be like, oh, do you want to beat up Eldridge?

HARs?

Cool, this game exists, but you're still gonna die a lot.

You know?

'cause like, man, there's so many like.

Different paths, even just in different games.

So like you have like, call it Kaulu for example.

You there, there's like Tung, uh, Kaul is one.

Yep.

Tulu.

I had like a, a play thing of it, a quick start thing of it on my shelf that I got.

Like there's all kinds of different paths.

Yeah.

Even just in like going down one specific genre of game.

And I think that's so much fun when it comes to TT RPGs and that's like where it's fun when it comes to like the really, um, you know, genre nonspecific ones, you have vape.

Yeah.

Then you have Cortex and then you have Cipher.

Like you have all of these things that like if you don't agree with one, there are other options that you can go down.

Even in the monster hunting realm.

Yeah.

I have VAs, I have Bump in the Dark, I have Monster of the week.

I have Cottages and Cerus.

Yeah.

These are four different monster hunting games that have four different vibes, but at its core.

They're monster hunting games.

Right.

And so if you're looking for, but they all feel very different.

Exactly.

They really do.

Right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Even in, I mean for, yeah.

I don't talk enough about generic systems.

I am kind of lukewarm on them.

Like I've played a little bit of fate.

Mm-hmm.

I have basic role playing, which is like the call of Kaulu B 100 version of like, um, and I even made a game as like part of like a design challenge that Kian was doing with BRP that I was like, that's fun.

I like this.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

I haven't released it 'cause it needs a little more work, but, um, but it's even in that, like, within that genre or not genre list, it is kind of genre list setting, list, whatever it is.

Um, very agnostic.

But within BRP it's like, you can play, there's like four power levels, right?

Mm-hmm.

It's like normal humans like Cthulhu, where like, you're not going to have anything special about you, you're just playing normal humans.

Yep.

There's like gifted, you know what I mean?

Like, uh, so like minor powers, then there's like mutant superpowers and then there's like.

Play a superhero game that's fun.

Just using the same, this same engine.

Yeah.

And it makes it really interesting.

And what's cool is you can learn one mode of mechanics, like one set of mechanics mm-hmm.

And apply it in a lot of different fields.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I'm, I'm always, I'm personally somebody who's like, like you said, like give me lean into theme, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, give me lean into vibe hard.

Like, yes.

If you're setting out to achieve this thing and, and provide this experience, I want you to go hard and provide the best version of that experience as possible.

Mm-hmm.

And not worry about me trying to do something else with it.

You know what I mean?

I, I, I, I wanna lock into this one thing.

I absolutely agree.

What do you think would be like, in, in your opinion, what do you think is the most vibe heavy at Ttrp G that you have?

Ooh.

Ooh.

Good question.

I like, I almost pause for a, I'm gonna put like the elevator music here for a second and turn around.

I got two that I think are vibe super vibes heavy and are like, you're gonna do this one thing.

Mm-hmm.

Actually, you know what, I'm gonna add three, but two of them are from the same company, so okay.

We're gonna roll it in together.

One is Good Society.

A Jane Austen, RPG.

Oh yes.

Good.

Society is so great.

So like a, oh, you know what I'm, I'm making it four, but I'm doing two companies, right?

Two companies Excel at this.

Okay.

So one is story brewers who does good society.

Mm-hmm.

Because like, there's no way you're doing something with that system that isn't.

Jane Reg Austin Ency.

Yep.

Yeah, Regency Love match.

You know what I mean?

Like mm-hmm.

Interpersonal relationships, letter writing, you know what I mean?

Like it does this thing.

They also put out a game called Fight with Spirit, which is like a sports anime, TT rrp G, and it's like, you literally can't do anything else with this.

Why?

But like, the vibes are immaculate every time that I do stuff like this.

I, yep.

It always down always means that like, okay, I'm bringing that up on the second screen and I now want this.

Yeah.

And, and guess what?

It's gonna hit on one of your big check marks, which is, it comes in a box with all the nice fancy things with it.

Yeah.

You are making my day right now.

Heck yeah.

The, the other company that I will say.

You go to for vibes and you stay because it's not just vibes, it's well done.

Is, uh, Rowan Rook and Deckard?

Yes.

So Heart Inspire.

Mm-hmm.

Those games are very specifically, you know, you're doing this one thing.

I still need to read through those.

I have digital versions.

I, I tend to like to go through the physical, uh, books a lot.

So like, I tend to just lean towards like getting those, because I know I'll read them, but like, man, I've heard such amazing things.

Oh, look at that book.

Yes.

This, this is, this is my answer is Eat the Rike.

Okay.

Eat the Rike is my answer for Vibes.

It is like a 60 page book, right?

Mm-hmm.

But you are only doing one thing, like it is every time you play it, you're playing with the same pre gen vampires.

Mm-hmm.

You're playing in the same Nazi occupied Paris, and you are going to drink Nazi blood.

Like, okay.

Like, you can't tell me that's not just.

All it is is vibes.

Yeah.

That's all it is.

You know, it, it tells you exactly what it's going to be right out of the box.

Yeah.

And I think that is so, I know there's a lot of people who don't like that.

Yeah.

Or I shouldn't say a lot of people.

I know there are some people who don't like that.

Right.

Um, but I think it's so much fun to have A-T-T-R-P-G that lures you in with the pure vibes, and then you can like fall in love with it for the mechanics and the way that it works and like how it plays and all of that.

But like, if you pull me in with vibes, you, you have my heart already.

And it, it was really funny because I got a comment on a video that I had on TikTok where.

Now I was talking about Land of Vem.

I love Land of Vem.

That's a game that makes me very happy.

That's a very vibe, heavy, heavy one.

It's whimsical fantasy.

Um, Muppets meets Lord of the Rings.

How fun.

Ridiculous.

How little guy shenanigans.

Um, fun, whimsy, fantasy.

I love it.

Um, and so that one brought me in with vibes.

And so when I do like short form TikTok videos and stuff where I like to do like a little introduction to a game and like show it off to people, spotlight it, et cetera.

Yes.

Which is so good.

Right?

I I love doing it that way because for most people the vibes is what gets them.

The vibes are, are, are such an important thing.

And so that's how I always approach like introducing other people to games of like, here's the vibe, here's a, here's a touchstone that you can connect with first and then you can like get yourself into the game.

'cause I feel like that's so much easier.

Um, but I had someone comment and they said, vibes don't make the game, or aesthetics don't make the game.

Mm.

Because I was talking about how the art's Great.

Yeah.

And like the whole theme of it's great and I I love it.

Yeah.

And I'm like, okay.

I don't think that, you know, I don't think just vibes can make a game.

I think there are some, uh, uh, like I think mechanics for me, I do like the mechanical, mechanical aspects of Ttrp gs.

Yeah.

That's something I have a lot of fun with.

And I feel like they have a very heavy weight in the game.

'cause like they're basically everything you're engaging with when you're playing it.

Right.

However, aesthetics and vibes are an incredibly important part of Ttrp RPGs.

And like, if it doesn't look cool and sound cool, I don't want to read it or play it because mm-hmm.

It's not painting a picture in my head.

It's not giving me ideas and inspiration as soon as I see it.

And I think that's where, kind of like circling back to the, um.

Genre agnostic.

Um, yeah.

Systems and stuff.

That's where I think it loses a lot of people because there isn't anything concrete about it.

It's a system that's very concrete, but like, you know, you're not reading through the book and getting an idea, this is how heist, like these are how high stories work.

Like when I'm reading through Blades in the dark, I understand how high stories work, and I go and watch a movie that's a high story and I'm like, that's literally this mechanic and this mechanic and this mechanic.

Like, I love doing that.

Yeah.

And like it paints that picture in your head.

And aesthetics are just so important.

And there's some that have super strong ones that then have very simple systems that go along with it that also are fantastic.

Yeah, that, that, that was mostly a tangent on my end because No, no, but no, you bring up a very good point where I think there's almost like a.

Gradient, right?

Mm-hmm.

If you think of like, if you had a game, think of like a zero to 100 scale, right?

Zero is mechanics only and a hundred is vibes only.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

If you are buying a zero, which is a lot of those system or setting agnostic mm-hmm.

Games, they are relying so much on the players in GM to provide Yes.

Those vibes that the mechanics better be able to handle whatever you throw at them.

Right?

I think that's a good way to say it.

Yeah.

The other side of that scale, 100% vibes mm-hmm.

Is, you know, without mechanics, we're just playing make believe and there's nothing that's going to create drama or create suspense or create whatever you're trying to do.

So you need mechanics, however light they may be mm-hmm.

Or however involved they might be, that reinforce those vibes.

Yes.

So the story.

Actually gets to where you want it to go in unexpected ways, right?

Yeah.

Because again, if I was playing a game where you're like, we're playing this, and like, here's the setting and here's the vibes and here's why I love it so much.

And like, look at these pictures, like you can just tell what's gonna happen.

But if we sat down and, and even in that space, sat down at a table and rolled a game and the whole time it was just like, we just know everything that's gonna happen, you know?

And, and nothing challenges us.

Yeah.

Or like, you know, nothing makes us think like, oh, that's even better than I thought because I rolled this thing that just so happens to have changed how I totally think about this whole thing.

Yeah.

Then, you know, it's not as good a games as it could be.

You need that.

Yeah.

It's like when you play pretend like you're always gonna think of the, the biggest better thing that's gonna beat whatever just happened.

Yeah.

Because like, you wanna come up on top and, and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And I mean, that's actually something that's interesting that I feel like people, there's a lot of people who don't understand solo games because they're just like, tell me that You could just write.

Yeah.

You could just write a story.

Like, why don't you just like become a writer or something like that.

But.

That's not what I want.

I want to not have to think so far ahead.

I don't want to think about this is how the story's gonna go.

I want to be surprised by prompts and situations that just occur and any, a very specific setting in a very specific like place, in a very specific world.

Like whatever it may be.

I want to play a game and I want to be able to still have those elements of surprise and not knowing and, and being able to engage in it and build that world like a piece by piece as you do in like A-A-T-T-R-P-G as a group, but in a solo setting instead of in a group setting.

And that's why, you know, solo games exist.

But I always think it's really funny when people are like, just write a book.

I literally have an interview coming out very shortly with another solo podcaster where that was our entire topic was he was like, I, I am a writer.

Mm-hmm.

Like he is a writer.

Mm-hmm.

And he was like, but.

When I'm sitting down to write my stories and like write my fiction, I'm in a very different mind space than when I'm sitting down to play a tt RPG.

And he is like, but I've actually kind of married the two where like, I know the story I wanna write, but anytime I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, like as the writer, I think this would be interesting.

He actually sits down and he grabs his dice and he plays out the scene.

I love that in a solo game to be like, what unexpected things have I not thought about?

Yeah.

Or what could make this more interesting?

Because there's two things I wanna say.

One is, as much as I love solo games and we've been talking about this, you know, if you, if we were playing just pure make believe, you know, you're always gonna think about the best thing.

And like there you're always gonna come up with something better.

But I also think that if you're sitting down at a table and you're sitting down with people you trust to guide a story together, you can throw out an idea and three people hearing that idea will ask a question or provide an idea on top of your idea that will change it.

Yes.

In such better ways that it's like.

That's kind of what solo games do with Oracles, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's just like, I have this idea, let me roll to make sure that it's like, what's gonna happen?

Then you're like, oh, it's not.

Mm-hmm.

And oh, it's so much better.

Right.

To come up with a very bad metaphor, you know, like writing a book is building scaffolding to build a building.

Mm-hmm.

Playing a solo game is climbing, scaffolding and not knowing which board is gonna actually slip and you're gonna fall, and then you hit a bunch of things on the way down and you're like, oh, how did I get here?

You know what I mean?

That's a great, great way to say it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So like I think that's a really good way, especially of putting it like literally the solo game is like.

The collaboration, like you don't have people around usually.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, like if you're playing a solo game, you're usually playing it on your own.

Um, but you don't have other people around to bounce off ideas.

You don't have a GM or a guide there to be presenting these new situations that you never would've put your character in.

And like I, I, I haven't really thought about it that way, but it absolutely connects, as you said that, of like the Oracles and the solo game and the mechanics itself and, and the prompts is literally just that.

Yeah.

It's, it's gamifying like collaboration and unexpected ideas that you would normally get in group play, but Yeah, now in solo, yeah.

And, and like we were just saying, I mean, like if I, if we were sitting at a table with people and I was like, I had this idea, and someone was like, yeah, but what if mm-hmm.

And someone else is like, oh, and.

When you're doing it solo, you know, the, the person who wrote the game is like, here's a prompt, or like, roll to dice and come up with an oracle and like, here's some random words to like just inject what ifs.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean?

That's what they're doing.

And the best part is like, they wrote this book, they put it out and they have no idea what someone else is coming into that prompt or coming into that Oracle role doing.

Mm-hmm.

So it's almost like, you know, it's just them being there for you to be like, Hey, before you go any further, like, let me just mess with you a little bit.

You know, and it's, and it's great to see where things come because I can say this as a solo podcaster who does a lot of actual plays with solo stuff.

If you told me where any of my campaigns would end.

When I was starting them, I'd be like, I don't know how I would ever possibly get there.

Do you know what I mean?

Like Yeah.

Because who knows what happens.

And I think that's, that's the beauty of Ttrp Gs just in general.

Like, you start off this game.

Yeah.

Not really, not really knowing who your character is yet, not really knowing what the game is yet, what the story is yet.

And then you go on a journey to find where it goes and where it ends and like mm-hmm.

You know, how your characters grow over all this time.

And like a solo game does that just as much as a group game.

Well, and so I, but I love it.

But also this is all the more reason to play other games.

Right.

Because like, if you've played, like I did, I mean, like, I wanna say I started playing T RPGs in like 20 10, 20 11, something like that.

Mm-hmm.

And it was like, I don't think I picked up a different game.

For like six years.

Something like that.

Like you like, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Like there was a long time and it was like, by the time I was starting like my fourth d and d campaign, it was like, you know what the progression of these characters looks like.

Yep.

Even if the campaign is different, even if the setting is different, even if you're doing different things with it, you kind of know how your progression is gonna go.

And, and don't get me wrong, some tables will play much more like big actual plays where there's a lot of like role playing scenes.

Mm-hmm.

And like a lot more interpersonal development and a lot more social scenes and stuff like that.

But really that's not what the game the mechanics are doing.

Yep.

For you.

Like that's not what the progression of those games look like.

But if you play a different game where those things do matter, like play Delta Green, one of the things you have to do in that game is come up with.

Connections, right?

Like you have bonds to the outside world, like as you're going crazy learning about the horrible, horrible things that lie in secrets, the government is keeping secret from the rest of the world.

Mm-hmm.

You can project your craziness that's happening onto those bonds and you lose tethers to reality.

Right.

Like, that's so good.

That's not something you can mechanically do in another game.

Mm-hmm.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, and those scenes have to happen.

There are home scenes mm-hmm.

Where you check in and go, Hey, person who's been ex, you know, experimenting and like experiencing the cosmic unknown in the horrors of the world.

Your mom needs you to come move it.

Couch.

You know what I mean?

And like, you gotta go to your mom's house and you're like, mom, I'm dealing with like terrible things right now.

And then your mom's like, you hurt my feelings.

And you're like, okay, damnit.

You know what I mean?

Like, oh, I was literally going through the biggest existential crisis known to man.

Yeah.

Right, right.

But you know, so like all the more, and that, that's just one example, right?

Yeah.

I mean like, um, I mean like, um, even within the Apocalypse Keys and even just the Brind Wood Bay systems in general, oh, but Apocalypse Keys, like the fact that like, you are a, like harbinger of doom to bring the apocalypse and like you play this game and throughout the game you are basically playing tug of war with like your human side and your monster side.

And when you take big risks and you, um.

Do moves that bring you closer to being a monster.

There's mechanics in that game that actually represent that you get closer to the darkness.

You get closer to these like monstrous feelings and monstrous things that you can't control anymore.

And like, I can't think of a ddy equivalent to something like that because that's, that's what that game is.

That's what the game it like those are the stories that it's telling.

And so that's what it does in the game and it has the mechanics to then support that, which is why I just love finding games that have mechanics that actually support the stories.

Like I Exactly right.

I love that so much because again, it just helps reinforce those ideas and reinforce those themes that you want because you decided I wanna play a story where I'm.

Someone fighting between my human and my monster side.

Hmm.

That is the story that I want to play, or that I want to experience.

So then finding a game that does that for you, that's gonna be a completely different play experience than if you tried to do that in d and d.

And while you could do a similar type of character in a similar type of theme, it's gonna play out differently because the mechanics don't support it.

Yeah.

In, you know, the way that Apocalypse Keys does.

Yes.

And so that's why it's awesome to experiment with other games and see what they actually have to offer for you.

Mm-hmm.

And your stories and the way that it feels to play them.

I love it.

Ugh.

Yeah.

I love these guys.

Okay.

I, I have a question.

We, obviously, I think a lot of people who are listening to this podcast are gonna be just nodding their heads the entire time through this episode going like, yeah.

Yep.

Uhhuh, yes.

But here's a logistics question.

Yes.

That I, you know, unfortunately.

You find a super cool new RPG and you're so excited about it, then you gotta sell it to the people you play with.

Mm-hmm.

And schedule it and whatnot.

And ideally you've hyped it up mm-hmm.

To people and been like, like you do, like you do on TikTok.

Right.

You're like, Hey, this game is cool.

Here's why it's cool.

Here's a touchstone.

If you like these things, you might like this game.

Mm-hmm.

But getting people to sit down at a table and be like, trust the process right, is kind of hard when they're so used to it playing out in a certain way.

Do you have any advice for people on like how to not just get people on board but like get 'em excited?

So there's a few different things that at least I did when it came to introducing some new people to Ttrp Gs outside of DD specifically.

Um, like they were already playing d and d and were super into them.

Um, this was a few different friends and different groups who, and all of that.

So first thing that I would recommend is trying out like.

One page slash one shot systems first.

Yeah, because that is super low commitment.

That is you can create a character in five minutes.

It is literally gonna last one game.

So if you find that you don't like it, it doesn't last for much longer.

And if you find that you do, you can explore other things that maybe of a similar vibe.

Yeah.

It's also super easy to run.

So as a GM to start introducing people to other games and not wanting to put in all this work to learn the system, to then have it maybe fall through.

All you have to do is like.

I don't know, 10 minutes of prep and then boom, you can play this game and run it for people.

Um, without like any commitment.

So like one actually did like a whole video the other day on this that I hope to have uploaded at some point.

But I think One Page RPGs are a super strong tool to start introducing people to, um, games outside of DDI have done this with one of my playgroups before where they never played a game outside of DD and I'm like, all right, let's play Honey Heist.

Yeah, we played Honey Heist.

They loved it and felt even more open to trying something new.

Like, yeah, and that's where you just start.

I almost just view it as like, baby steps.

All right, so we do this maybe then a, something like a, A morborg or an into the odd Yeah.

Or, you know, something that's shorter, not super mechanically robust as some other games may be.

Taking that as the next step.

How does that feel?

How do people like playing it and you know, obviously finding the vibes of whatever people want, and then you can start taking that next step.

If you find that people are still excited about other games and it's something that, you know, everyone seems to be on board with, then you can start going to something like, you know, let's say call a kaul, where mm-hmm.

That is going to take a little bit more time to learn, more commitment to really like, appreciate and play the system.

Yeah.

And sometimes even more, um, monetary commitment from the Yeah.

People at the table because you need to buy these books and stuff.

So like, that's like, honestly, when I've thought about introducing people to games outside of DD, that's immediately where my mind goes of this is a stepping stone, one page RPGs, to then getting to a place where you play something longer.

And just seeing how that feels.

I love that.

And I haven't, you know.

I've made a one page RP GI play a lot of one page RPGs.

I like invite, like that's actually, I started a work group, uh, like we play at lunch at my work.

I love it.

And my table started with three people who saw me when I like first started like prepping like a DD campaign.

They walked into the lunch room and they were like, what are you doing?

And I was like, oh, like I'm prepping a DD thing that I'm running later.

And they were like, oh, interesting.

Can we play that?

And I was like, no.

Like not at lunch because like we have like 45 minutes and we'll never get anything done, but I have another game we can play.

Yeah.

And it started with me and three people and it's up to 10 players and me right now.

Oh, that's so, it's crazy.

And every once in a while it's like, you know, we either have too many people to like, make anything happen or whatever.

And I just like pass out like one, one page RPGs and like, you're so right.

Because.

It's so easy to be like, this is no very little commitment.

Mm-hmm.

Try it.

Love it.

Hate it.

Who cares.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's, it's 45 minutes of your life, in my case for lunch, but like two hours of your night Yeah.

With your friends or whatever.

And half the time they're also free to get to like honey highs.

Like you don't really, like, you can just print it out or just have a PDF of it.

Cool.

We play like it, it's so easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, just go get one of those many, many, many itch bundles, but that's, then you're sending somebody down like a rabbit hole's.

We'll get them.

I, I love itch bundles, itch bundles.

Feed my obsession.

So, yeah.

That's, that's really great.

I didn't even, I, I've never thought to think and talk about those more.

Mm-hmm.

Because obviously when you're doing aps or you're, you're hyping things up, uh, you know, you want to tell people about something that they can latch onto mm-hmm.

And enjoy.

But one page RPGs are so good for just.

Dipping your toe in.

Exactly.

That's so good.

And like, they're also, they're fun.

Like, I've played honey hez like two times.

I, I would like to play it more, a lot more, but like, both times are very different.

Um, they're very goofy.

They were ridiculous.

Uh, we had a polar bear commit, vehicular manslaughter in the first one as you do, as one does and as you do.

Like, it's, it's, it's just, it's fun and easy and great.

But yeah.

Another thing that I also wanna say for getting people into, like, to try other games and actually like, hyping them up and, and you know, starting to just introduce them to it.

I find also trying to find a really strongly themed T-T-R-P-G that matches with some sort of theme or genre that most of your players like.

Yeah.

So for example, um, when in one of my groups, um, we were playing.

Uh, d and d at the time, and I was starting to get into other games and I'm like, I really wanna start getting people into other games.

Um, and I, uh, read, uh, kids on Brooms.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Great game.

You know, Harry Potter, very large touchstone for that, but also the owl house, um, the Owl House.

Magical you know, kids going to school and fighting against these grander powers and, and bad guys and all of that.

It's very similar.

And so, um, my friends slash my siblings, who I was playing with were super in depth Al House at the time.

And so I read that and I'm like, I, I could do like an owl house themed thing.

And my one friend was super opposed to trying games outside of DD at the time, just like, this is the game.

I know.

I don't wanna play anything else.

No.

And I'm like, all right, what if I run a owl house themed game in kids on brooms?

Just as a pitch, how does that sound?

And because that was something like everyone loved at the time.

Everyone's like, oh yeah, that would be awesome.

Like they didn't even really have a second thought about the system because they wanted to play that game so badly that it was almost a no brainer to them.

And so we did a session zero to, you know, go over the mechanics and stuff like that, ease them into the into it, introduce them to the game because it's not something they're familiar with.

It uses a different dice system and mechanics are widely different.

Do a session zero.

Then we played the game and that person who was very anti, like other Ttrp Gs, was like.

When can we play like the next one, basically I wanna play more.

Like, this was awesome.

Yeah.

This was a great game.

Like, this was like so much fun when they were basically just a d and d stand.

Yeah.

Like, they could not like move past it.

And so for me, I think like finding a really strong theme and a genre, uh, story or just something that you can latch onto and recreate in a game that you have.

Um, or, you know, find a game for it that also works.

But yeah.

Yeah.

Doing that I feel like is another good way to start introducing people, um, into other ttrp gs because then you're feeding into exactly what.

They're interested in, which, you know, kind of applies like, when I introduce a game to PE or introduce games to people, um, I go for vibes and genre and, you know, aesthetics.

Yeah.

Because that's, that is the strongest touchstone for us.

That is the strongest, like, it again, paints that picture in your head.

I like people fall in love with shows and media and games because of the way it makes them feel.

And that is something that's very then special to them.

And so if you can offer an experience that's going to be similar to what they love, I feel like it's a lot easier for people to start to step out of that comfort zone.

Because you're promising them something that they know that they already enjoy.

Yeah.

You've set the expectations, which maybe puts the expectations a little high of like them having to deliver, but Sure, sure.

But also they, you know, they know where they're, they know what they're playing in.

Yeah.

You know what mean they, and they know it's a tt, rrp G we're gonna mess around and we're gonna like, it's not gonna be exactly how you imagine like any DD game.

Yeah.

We're gonna be like these fantasy heroes and save the world.

There's plenty of shenanigans.

It doesn't go the way you think it will and people know that.

Alright, well we've passed the one hour mark, so I'm gonna start segueing us towards, uh, towards a close, speaking of games going, how you think they'd go and or not.

I do have one question before I move to closing questions, which is, how's your Ryko game going?

So I haven't played in a little bit just because life busy.

Um, you know, I've had like some, like a big weekend trip that I had to do recently and just, you know.

Life, but it's actually going super well.

So Cory Co is like the longest solo game that I've played so far.

Um, the only other one has been over the mountain, which I, I played like a few days in and then I'm like, I, I just couldn't commit to sitting down each time with it.

But Cory Co I've played for a lot longer and I have arrived in Cory Co just very recently.

Um, and I'm starting to kind of flesh out what Cory Co looks like and is in my world, which I'm starting to lean a lot towards, like a steam punk vibe.

I mm-hmm.

Um, I really enjoy like that type of aesthetic.

And so when I first got into Cory Co, I picked the prompt of like large machinery or like industrial type stuff.

And I like designed this like metal cloud, um, that was like.

Over, um, a bunch of like fields and stuff.

And that was like the way that they rained or that they watered their fields was through this metal cloud to keep it consistent and stuff.

Cool.

Yeah.

And so like, it was just starting to, like, that was the first thing and I'm like, man, I don't know what the heck I'm doing here, but I guess that's something that's here.

Um, and then, you know, from there I'm like, okay.

I think that's the type of vibe.

And so then I did a, like a page in my sketchbook of just like designing a bunch of like silly little like steam punk like aesthetic stuff of like, here's like maybe some vibes for Cory Co.

I met someone in the game, the hire a fans.

Ooh, who I think is, they are the mentor figure and such.

Yeah, and they are a.

I believe they, um, they run like a repair shop and so they like repair, like, um, trinkets and things like that.

And that has really called, uh, to my character, especially because they are from like a village that was very like natural based like plants and earth and things like that.

So technology is very outside of their realm, um, or out outside of her realm.

And so this has been like a really big shock to her of like, I don't know what any of this is.

And like, you can fix it and like, what is that?

What is that?

And so like, that's been really fun to explore.

And where I left off is that there was someone protesting in town and I can't remember what.

Like, I was starting to like flush out what that like looked like.

Like what?

In this, in this city That so far, I'm, I'm dreaming up what would be something that people are protesting against.

And I can't remember what it was, uh, 'cause I didn't get it actually down, but that's where I'm at.

And I'm super excited because I've, I've got lots of like, threads going on.

Yeah.

And, and I can't wait to start connecting things and like, are you, how is this working out?

That's, see, yeah.

I, one, I just, I just wanted to hear about your game because obviously I, I ran, uh, Cori co.

Ap and you know, I've, I've seen other people talk about it, but it's like from a set of prompts and from like a book that just has like.

The same prompts.

Mm-hmm.

For everybody playing this game, they're all gonna feel so different.

And already just what you were saying, I was just like, wow, that's so different from my choreo.

And I love it.

And I love it.

But also something you just said speaks to me on such a deep level of solo gaming, which was like, I have all these threads and they're just like mm-hmm.

All around and you have no idea how you're gonna grab and how they're gonna weave to make this like braid of a story by the end of it, right?

Mm-hmm.

And like I, like just recently in my standard is season two that I'm doing right now.

Mm-hmm.

Like, it was like an episode or two ago where I was like, finally I've like grabbed three or four of these threads and I'm at least pulling them towards the same thing.

Because for a while I was like, they're going everywhere.

Right.

But like, that's the beauty of solo games is like if you trust the process and if you just remember to focus on those things.

Mm-hmm.

I honestly feel like.

Solo gaming is a great GM tool.

Like if you are a gm, play a solo game.

'cause it's gonna make your storytelling with your friends so much better.

I think it's like just a fantastic tool in J Like if you're, I think if you're wanting to do writing, it's a really good way to just start like experimenting with some ideas without like sitting down and having to figure out the whole story yourself.

If you're wanting to gm, it's a great way to start.

Like you're presented with random things, how do you respond and like improving those types of storytelling skills and decision making skills and really like fleshing out a world type skills.

And like everyone also always approaches it in a different way too.

And it depends on the type of solo games that you're playing.

Sure.

Like there are like ones that are more similar to like, um, choose your own adventure books.

Like I have one, um, behind me, I think it's, uh, what is it?

Uh, the House on Sentinel Hill.

Okay.

It's like this, um, cosmic horror game book that I found one time and I'm like, I don't know.

That seems cool.

I'll get it.

I haven't played it yet.

But it's similar to like a choose your own adventure.

You have like a little sheet, um, you make like yourself a little sheet and you have stats and stuff you like, um, keep track of, but like, it's more of a thing like you flip through, it's like, okay, go to this page.

And then you flip through and like you go to each of the pages and like, you know, something happens.

Yeah.

But it's similar to choose your own adventure versus some other games are like journaling games.

Yeah.

And like you then can like go towards the ones that call for you.

Like I just think it's awesome.

Yeah.

Um, and there's a lot of skills that I feel like you can build in ttrp GS by playing solo games without then, you know, relying on a group to have to build them too.

Right.

Not all of them are Cory co cozy vibes with journaling.

Some of them are like Miro and Spencer Campbell's games, which are like actually mechanically kind of mm-hmm.

Uh, very procedural.

Mm-hmm.

And then there are other ones that like the Call of Kaulu and like that game you were just talking about that are kind of choose your own adventure.

Yep.

Um, but all of them are going to just work out your storytelling muscles.

Yeah.

In a way that's gonna be beneficial.

Exactly.

I love it.

Alright, let's go to our closing questions.

I always ask the same three questions to end every interview.

And I love this first one.

I can't wait to hear what you say, although I kind of, I kind of jumped the gun 'cause I asked a very similar question earlier.

But Willow, do you have any last bits of wisdom, advice, or homework for people listening to this episode?

Oh gosh.

Um.

You know what?

Wisdom, advice or homework?

Hmm.

Honestly, I would encourage anyone who's listening to this episode, even if you, no, let's say you've just played d and d, um, and it's the only game that you've ever played.

You never read through the books completely, whatever.

I would encourage you to, you know, if you have any other games on your shelf or if you've ever heard of a game, um, just passively, whether it be like, oh, an ad from Kickstarter or something you heard on a podcast, um, maybe, um, or, you know, during this episode even that sounded cool.

I would encourage you to go pick up that game and just start reading through it.

Because for me, that was a game changer and that has.

Really cemented TT RPGs in my life of just deciding I'm gonna look at this game and learn about it.

Like actually just sit down and learn about it, and not just play it.

And even if I don't end up playing like I have, I have like 50 fricking games on my shelf behind me here.

Yeah.

I have not played all of these, but I've read about half of 'em because I think that's a great way to just start thinking about storytelling and mechanics and TT RPGs in so many different ways and keep your brain engaged.

And I think solo games are great for that, but like, not everyone wants to do that.

And sometimes you just want to immerse yourself in the world without, you know, having the commitment of playing them or anything like that.

So I would encourage for people to read a, read a game, read a TT, rrp G and.

See how that feels.

What did you learn?

What cool mechanic did you like, not know how it worked at the beginning.

And then like halfway through the book you realize, oh my gosh, this is how it like, fits into everything.

Because like, it's all intentional and I think it's a really fun puzzle to solve as well as you start to read through a new system and slowly piece together how it works.

So, um, I think that like, I guess that's a little bit of homework advice, encouragement to read Yeah.

A new thing, because I think it's cool.

Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, we've had people, we've had people give homework where it's go play a new game.

But I think the value of go read a game is so good because whether or not you ever get that to the table, the action, the process of reading a book will explain to you why the designer did it the way they did.

Mm-hmm.

And hopefully show you how and why they.

Designed it in a way to provide the experience, and it might just make you go, I can approach things differently now.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

And it's also a lot easier to convince yourself to sit and read a book than it is for you to convince a whole group of people sometimes to play a game.

So like it's, it's an easier way to start getting introduced to them.

There you go.

All right.

Well, next question.

This is gonna be a loaded one for, for you very much like it would be if somebody asked me this question.

Do you have any games you're excited to play or ideas you can't wait to try out at a table?

All right.

Land of Veeam right now is my current obsession.

Um, that's the game.

Like I've, I waited two years for it to arrive.

Um, I was so excited the whole time.

I'm like, man, I am so anxious for this, this game to finally get here and it shipped.

And I'm like, ah.

So that's been like my current obsession.

That's been my thing of like, you know, I'm reading through the core book right now.

Um, I can't wait to start flipping through the sandbox setting.

I have never been a setting book person.

Mm-hmm.

Even like pre-written campaign material, that type of stuff I haven't gone towards to as much.

Um, just because like.

Again, most of my experiences with it being DD stuff and that's those vibes and aesthetics just don't tend to call to me as much.

Sure.

However, land of Vem very much calls to me whimsical adventure time is like another, like touchstone for land of Vem very much.

And the sandbox setting book is probably one of my favorite setting books that I have seen because it just introduces all these different towns, cities, settlements, locations, all of that and it presents, um, here's some sites and sounds, here are a few key NPCs.

Here's some rumors that are going around town that actually have to do with the town itself.

Here's some rumors that are about other places far away.

Here are some quests that you can do.

Um, and here's the general vibe.

Have fun.

Yeah.

And I think that is so cool.

And so like I am really excited to, um.

Be going through Land OFM and reading through the sandbox setting.

I'm not gonna read through the whole thing 'cause it's a large book, but just flip through it and like see what it has and like, I'm excited because I want to use it as even a way to approach my prep in games.

Um, because it's just the way that it lays everything out.

Everything out, just like.

Like connects to my brain.

It's like that.

Oh my god, that makes so much sense.

Yeah.

So that's something I'm super excited about.

I'm super excited to play more.

Cory Co.

Now that I'm gonna be having some more time, um, because like I want to see what this freaking protest is about.

Yeah.

Like what's going on there.

Um, and actually like start to get the ball moving and hopefully I get to see this mentor figure again because they were super cool.

And I'm just excited to hopefully play an actual group, T-T-R-P-G soon.

Um, I, again, like I'm just kind of getting back into things after a year off and I am ready to just like start playing some games.

And I know for me that means I need to approach it in a way that's, um, easy for me.

So I'm gonna be probably running some one page stuff and just some one shots.

And I'm not looking to commit to a full blown campaign because I don't have the time for that currently and I don't have the energy to do that at the moment.

Um, and I don't have the idea yet that like, yes, I'm ready to make this into something long term.

So yeah, I'm just ready to start bouncing around and exploring some things, see what really connects and, I dunno.

Maybe I'll just do another game of Honey Heist again.

That sounds cool.

Cool.

Yeah, go lean into the shenanigans.

Go back into it nice and loosey goosey, you know.

Exactly.

Or maybe the witch is dead.

That one's also really whack.

I fought a butcher, I was a magpie and I fought a butcher with a cleaver and I won somehow.

It was a very weird experience.

You're gonna now you're gonna make me go back.

I'm gonna start, uh, going through my one page RPGs just for fun now.

And I'm gonna be like, oh gosh, what can I just bring to the table and be like, we're doing this.

Just 'cause it's gonna be done in a couple hours.

Yeah.

And yeah.

Yeah.

One, it's not a one page RPG, but it's one that I recommend.

Um, it's a game called Definitely Wizards.

Um, oh, I played it recently.

It's again, I played it at my work.

Uh, we did it in a 45 minute thing.

It's so good.

And it was so funny.

It was very funny.

That and three raccoons in a trench coat I've brought to, uh, to my work and just done.

Oh, actually we did.

Final Girl too.

Yeah.

We've done, um, we've done a few, like, just like silly tho tho.

Final Girl is definitely not a one page, uh, RPG, but, uh, I I, we did a very fast horror movie, but, um, that's fine.

But yeah, it's, it is that definitely Wizards was very funny.

It's, it's so goofy.

It's so stupid in Yeah.

All of the best ways.

And the goofier, the stupider the better for me, honestly.

Yes.

Right.

Well, especially for one page.

Right?

Exactly.

Like we're talking about vibes, right?

Like, if we're on that scale, a one page RPG can be like almost a 99.

Mm-hmm.

On that, on that vibe.

Just a mechanic scale.

It's like you have a dye that you roll and a stat.

Yeah.

Um, ooh.

Numb skulls is a good one of like being like the skeleton minions to a Necro man, and you're like trying to, um, not be perceived as seen human or something like that.

I can't remember the exact thing for it, but that one's, you know what, I think that one's gonna be what I run my youngest sibling there, we got there who I, I mean, they, they play in pretty much all the games that I run and stuff.

Um, they love skeletons, they love, um, skulls and all of that, and they have this.

Like character that they made up called The Bone Man who replaces people's bones and stuff like that.

Um, and I've, I talked about like, oh yeah, that would be super fun game to play with you.

We've never done it.

I think that's, that, that's the thing, because I've been wanting to play that for so long.

So I think that's, that's, that's what's gonna be happening.

All right.

Well, I'm gonna, I expect an update on how that went, and, uh, in the meantime we'll end with our last question, which is, what do you wanna pitch and tell people where they can find you out there in internet land?

Yeah, of course.

Well.

Honestly, I'm here to just pitch myself.

I, yeah, I'm goofy.

I'm weird.

I like TT RPGs.

I like talking about them.

I get very intense about them.

I had someone say that they were scared of me because of how intense I get.

So, you know, if you like those types of Vibes.

Vibes, hey vibes.

Sell it.

Right?

Exactly.

Vibes sell it.

I am Vibes.

Um, I love exploring TT RPGs and introducing people to new ones.

So like, you can find me on TikTok.

Um.

TikTok YouTube, I do sometimes pop up on, uh, threads and Instagram.

Um, I tend to not be as like in the loop on those, but you know, I hang out there and, and post cool T-T-R-P-G content where I either talk about things that I find to be really cool, like again, the land of EAM coin and economy system, uh, which is super niche or just introducing you to new games.

And yeah, you can find me on all of those.

At the RPG Goblin, it's literally just the RPG goblin on anything, which I mostly picked that name because I used to be a dice goblin and I still am, but I have seemed to replicate the same thing with TT RPGs and just slowly collecting a very, very large amount of them.

So I have a lot of stuff to talk about, and if you like my vibes and you like new games, then.

Check me out.

Sweet.

I will link all of those in the description so people can click and go follow you and all that.

And, uh, what a sweet grab on the RPG Goblin, like well done.

I know on that.

That's awesome.

But thank you so much Will for coming on and, uh, absolutely let me know how your games go.

I will, I'm super excited to start doing some stuff and thank you for listening to another episode of Perspective Checks.

I hope that you're excited to go try out some games that may be on your shelf that maybe you liked the vibes of, or if you don't have them on your shelf yet, maybe go to a local game store, take a look at the shelves and say, that one looks interesting.

Pick it up, read it, give it a shot.

If you want to check out Willow's, TikTok and things like that, that she's making short form videos and things, you can definitely check out any of the links in the description or search for the RPG Goblin.

I'll just about any of the social medias and you know, the spiel for me.

If you like what I'm doing, follow me on social medias where it's kind of bare bones, just update posts and things like that.

But again, it's a great way to get in contact with me or say hi.

If you wanna say hi, you can either email RenePlaysGamesPod@gmail.com or you should join the DM After Dark Discord, which is linked in the description.

And I was recently told a link that I've been using expires after a certain amount of time, so I'll be much better about making sure that it's a fresh link for every episode.

Other than that, leave a rating and review on your pod catcher of choice if you haven't already, just to help people find me.

And so we can all be bigger nerds together.

And yeah, if you feel absurdly generous, there's a coffee, but no pressure.

It's all good.

Thanks for hanging out, and until next time, lean in on the vibes.

Go all in.