What up, y'all?

This your main Maynor Memphis Bleak right here.

Welcome to Rock Solid, a production of iHeart Radio and the Black Effect Network in partnership with my guys over at Drink Champs.

You should know about, know.

You shouldn't know about.

Yeah, y'all you know what it is.

Back with another exclusive rock Solid podcast, kicking off a new season with a legend, a og, a mentor of mind, a massy staple.

Without this guy right here, I wouldn't exist, My big homie wouldn't exist.

Half this shit you even spitting, and your young boys rapping wouldn't exist.

So let's make sure we welcome and honor the legendary jazz Oo to the building.

My brother, man, how you been?

Man?

Oh?

Great, man, great and.

So good to see you.

My guys been vice versa, Like Joe, I wanted to bring you here, like we spoke on the phone and I know you was like Yo, my partner like, Yo, what believe even what they want?

What they bring.

I'm like, I just wanted to give you your flowers, show you the respect because as a thirteen year old kid watching you and Jay, let's go all the way back, right, Let's go all the way back.

All right, let's go you pulling up in the projects with two black panthers shooting the video As a twelve thirteen year old kid, that meant everything to me to see like you was the first guy from Marci to have a deal coming through with Big Daddy came.

You know what I mean?

You and jay I turn on video music box.

Y'all got a video the guy that live in my next building, Chase, who out there dancing in front of the building, is on TV.

So y'all made me, sir real.

Yes, y'all made these dreams reality to me.

And it was like and then to see y'all and the projects and able to talk to you and be like, yo, yo, I remember seeing you in the elevator.

It was me you and jay I was like, yo, Jazz, Yo, how you make a hook?

Man?

I can't write a hook for to save my life?

I remember that, yup, And you was like, Yo, just keep writing, man, just keep writing, and it's gonna get you.

Gonna get it, You gonna get it.

Yep.

I still can't make a hook.

I gotta put out a book.

Word up like the days are you picking me up?

In the We had the pink tracker.

Yo.

That felt like me leaving my building getting in the new sprint of here today that these kids riding in.

That's how getting in that tracker felt to me.

To go to the studio working with you, with Ski everybody, I was just like on it to be like, yo, y'all picked me.

So what was it like for you coming out in the eighties?

Me and the first guy from Marcie basically putting this whole movement on.

Well, the funny part about it is that you don't realize what you've done until hindsight, you know what I'm saying.

Like even even even in your beginnings, like you were like you geek, but at the same time you having fun, yes, and it was just there was really no that should I say that, There was really no precedents, you know what I'm saying.

So the experiences that I had, like I couldn't say, like, yo, let me talk to such and such about it because he experienced the two.

There was nobody you know, you one and only exactly so.

And I appreciate that so so dealing with that it was just handling, handling it like a like who I was.

As far as my maturity.

It was like I was geek, but at the same time, I was like, I don't even know where this road ends.

I don't know what this path or where this path leads to.

So I'm just like all I know is I got rhyme skills and I could do a three sixty and not rhyme better than everybody.

You had to have a dance move back.

Then, you know what I'm saying.

You know, I had.

I had people who came to the projects.

They used to come to the projects to you know, they're like, yo, we heard about this dude jazz and this, this, that and the other.

He ain't better than me.

And you know, I used to just be play coy and you know, let niggas rhyme.

They got the music out and they try to put me on front, you know what I'm saying.

And I had to spank them, and that's right.

So that that's what I climbed off of, like that experience because there was no president, there were nobody.

There was nobody really that could speak of as a rap artist or lyricist having a record deal or career, you know what I'm saying.

The career part of it wasn't Exton Storm.

So it's like, yo, I'm just winging it.

Yes, because back then, think in the eighties, back in those days, saying you're gonna be a rapper was equivalent to say, Yo, I'm going to the NBA.

You're looking at you like, Okay, I'm gonna stand here and sell these drugs while you're playing the note.

Right right right, So yeah, so it was it was it was ill man.

Like I always wanted to know, like when did the connection with you and Jane started?

Like like that don't even seem real that question to me, like because people always ask me, yo, how was it working with Jay?

Like when did Jane discover you?

And this and that?

And it's like I'm acting you and then you discovered Jay's insane.

Well, first and foremost, I gotta give credit to Nike from the shirt Cam.

Shirt came shout out night and that's crazy.

He lived in my building too.

Heard out you were in the legends.

It was legendary shit going on.

In the building, definitely.

So so Nike, Nike and I knew each other through my man, Steve kraslan Man he wrestling in Power.

We met a long time ago, and so basically I was just coming back from I dropped out of college.

I was actually going to college and and va at older mindon university.

It wasn't for me.

You know, I still wanted to be in the street.

I wanted to rhyn you know what I'm saying.

So none of that ship fit together.

So so I was like, so I came back home, I got a job, and amidst me getting the job, I'm like, man, fuck this job.

You know, I started doing the other thing.

So basically Nike was like, he's Nike was telling me, he said him Johnny who also lived around your way.

So him, Johnny and somebody else they were having an argument over like who was the best in the projects, and Nike was saying, like, I don't know what the fuck y'all talking about that.

Nigga Jazz just came home from school.

You know what I'm saying.

Jazz is better than everybody.

So you know that started like Nike became the dawn King, putting motherfuckers together, whether they gonna battle or collaborate, you know what I'm saying.

So so night he put it together and me and Jim we met in the not not not as far as the lane, but on park ave when you first when cars used to just drive in and then you go back toward the park in the lane on on on my side.

So we met in front of it was like between my buildings which is the rent office building and six twenty four, so we were staying.

We was all standing right there and just me, Knight and Jay and a couple of cats.

They probably mad at me if they see this and.

Be like, yo, you don't remember me standing there?

Yo?

They always the shout out, hell yeah, so shout out to y'all niggas, then remember exactly, you know who you was exactly.

So so he put it together.

So Jay was standing there, you know, we introduced each other and he was like, so, who who's gonna run first?

Jay was like and I was like, I was yeah, yeah, both quiet yea.

So I was like, you know, on my mind, and I'm sure there was in his mind too.

It was like.

I don't I'm being nice, but I don't really give a fuck because I know my skill level.

So so basically I said, fuck it, let me spend something.

So I run, you know, the little oohs and ahs and then the crowd because they already knew me, I was, and I'm not I'm not too well, I am too my own horn fucking right if I don't do it now, when you know, I was already a legend when I by the time I got back from school, I was already a legend in the projects and in Brooklyn.

Fact, everybody knew.

So so I robbed and the crowd, you know, we built up a little crowd and then Jay Ron and I was like, oh ship, and and I'm not even I'm not even exaggerating, I'm like, for all, and we're gonna put this out there for all the people who say that Jay, you know, because you got some people out there they say, Jay Jack my whole style and all this type of ship.

It was like, nah, we we collaborated for so long and so much that our styles became one style and still man exactly so, so we need to have that out in the world, you know, for all of the people that like drama and conflict.

Style, that's what they say, so right right, but.

Right right, you know, and and every everybody took this or that from somewhere.

You know what I'm saying.

We all learned off each other, right, and.

You just put your own your own your own signature.

Yes, so so jay Ron and I was like, damn, it's like I ain't even finished rhymen.

Like I'm like this nigga's roming, but I'm roming, like you know what I'm saying.

I almost knew what he was gonna say, but he was you know, he had certain aspects to his game that that were new to me, and I'm sure vice versa.

So what started out to be a battle, you know, it was just us rhyming.

So we just you know, we kicked about two or three more rhymes of peace and then you know, things just went about their business.

But I mean, j we started linking up and you know and writing together.

So we started writing routines and all that ship.

And you know, like when you hear like in certain books or you know, you hear Jay talk about you know, or records.

You know, were banging on the table.

You know, with the hogging dods ice cream and the apple jacks and fruit loops.

We just hide as fuck on sugar.

That ship was crazy, you know, niggas Robin going back and.

And sweets is crazy.

And so that's that's how it started.

We was like you know, some like like Aria or somebody would have the music out Rest in peace air man.

Definitely bring them speakers out.

The old projects came.

Out, man, Yes, indeed, Man, indeed so not so.

Me and Jay we used to we used to come out.

We had I don't know where Jay got it from, but yeah, this little it's a rolling drum machine.

It's called a d d M one ten.

And he actually introduced me to that because you know, I was into the big machines.

I never saw like you know, so he's like, yeah, I got this.

This drum machine is DDM one ten and uh, long story short, we was like, yo, were going to the music, like here he got the music out.

We going over there usually every time, and it was crazy.

Every time the music was out, niggas would find a way to find either me or Jay because they know if they found him, you know, he he would come get me and vice versa, and we go to the music and we would shut the ship down.

We was like, I don't know if you ever saw this old bugs Bunch cartoon.

He was playing like a composer and he walks into the he walks into the the opera house or the the auditorium and they going Leopold, like you know what I'm saying, like here they come, here they come.

And it was like that all the time, and we would shut ship down.

I get on the d D M one tea and he bron and then you know, he just do one of them, you know, and your jazz, my buddy, my age, don't you you know what cold rock, and we gotta switch up the switch, not just switch the mics, but we gotta switch up the drum machine, you know what I'm saying.

And we had that ship down to science.

So that's when it that's when it started, and then it never stopped from there.

Like then, y'all.

It's a rumor that y'all even once.

I don't know if it's true that y'all battle al Aur or something.

Right, Oh, this is what happened.

This involved.

This involved sauce money.

Shout out sauce money, another legend.

Shout out the sauce even though you know we don't be speaking.

You know what I'm saying, I love you, that's right, I'm saying.

Don't ever forget that.

That's right, man.

Always love source money.

Man.

So basically, we were at one of these uh industry parties.

So we were Outshine and Dre.

I don't know why he was carrying it, but the big ass VHS cameras, the big the shoulder Joy remember those news reporters word word you couldn't you couldn't be you couldn't be a weak nigga car So he had that again.

The other people that were there, I don't remember, but everybody dose.

Shout out the ones that was there, you know who was there exactly.

So so basically we were all standing outside, so Me and j Sauce, Dre, I don't know v I was there.

I think v I was there too, oh g v I, Yes, indeed, he's like, I don't know, so so Ll and some other cat they walked by and around this time.

Like Sauce, he was doing that ship all the time, Like every time we went to industry party or whatever.

Sauce was always trying to battle niggas and he would be looking at niggas like so, you don't know if I'm putting myself in the place of the people that he's staring at like, I wouldn't know whether he he want a battle or he got beats.

It's gang ship or or it's wrapped and stuff.

Yeah, his gang Sauce did have that look as like ice Cube back in the day when he was a young dude, like you didn't know, like yeah, you see a nigga like Source just looking at you, like yo, what type of time homie on.

He definitely got that look exactly.

So he was so he was staring at LLLL and you know, doing this type of ship like yeah, I'm like, man, it's like so somebody said something and I think he said it something something to the extent of like you don't want it, or some ship like that like that.

That's the ship he was on.

He's like, you don't want it, and Llll was like, you know, I know, man set He was like, nigga, I got a deal and I'm rich.

You know, you know whatever you say, you say, but it's man's I knows.

Man's told him something to the effect that like it's too many people looking and the nigga called you out, So you just keep it moving, you know, it's gonna it's gonna come out.

Yeah.

So so ll turned around and he came back, and you know, sau Us explained like yo, I'm yo, what's up.

Let's do it.

So Saw started rhyming.

So Saw started rhyming right, and then uh, ll Ron and the funny part, I'm gonna tell you the funny it didn't happen yet, but then after ll rhyme and Jay Ron and llll was already doing what I'm about to tell you before that, but he really got into it, like so j Ron and then ll rhymed again.

And when ll saw romen this nigga staring at me no way way, I'm like, I'm like, first in my head, I'm like, first, I'm surprised, Like, first off, nigga, you already know you don't want it with me, And second, like I didn't say nothing to you, but you know, guilt by association, right, And he didn't really to be honest, he didn't really know Sauce or j Well, he knew he was slightly familiar with j through me, and you know Jay's exploits in Queen's way back when, so so basically he's rhyming.

That means so I'm like one of those.

They basically drew me into the whole shit.

So I started rhyming, and that's basically how I went down it.

I wouldn't I wouldn't say who won or lost.

But I know that every rhyme that we three spit was better than his ship.

And I'm not I'm not trying to disrespect l L.

Is a great lyricist and everything else.

One thing I like about LLL.

He's in pocket.

It's timing, you know what I'm saying.

But I'm just saying that that night and I'm sure you know, I'm sure it was it was an off night for him.

You know, niggas caught him off guard or whatever.

But I mean me personally, like I don't off guard on guard like nigga you and it's me.

But but it was.

It was one of those things and it was it was a battle, but it wasn't a battle.

And the crazy part about it is Dre was recording the whole ship and I was trying.

I was like, damn that that VHS probably corroded about twenty five years ago.

Gee, that shit got circulated through the hood like King murderatement minutes.

You know what I'm saying.

So it was wild.

It was wild.

Yeah, man, Damn, that's that's you know that you got that l L, even at that level in his career, would even stop and rhyme, but he wasn't.

He wasn't on his own, but his man's like, yo, it's probably better than yeah, And I respected it.

I would have me personally.

I would have respected both if he had just kept it moving, you know.

And then the fact that he I kind of respected a little more.

The fact that he turned around, Yeah, got.

To man like because me, I ain't died on nobody outside the club, like, man, come in the show and see what they're paying me to do, exactly exactly straight up.

So back then, being like the first in the game, like you, like you said, there was no president, there was no nobody to talk to.

What is some of the early lessons you would say you learned from, you know, being in the music industry, and.

It sounds it sounds so cliche, but be yourself because and fortunately for us, we grew up in Marcy, so it was a lot easier, especially outside of Marsy or outside of that element, for us to be ourselves.

You know, I see a lot of I see a lot and I've known a lot of individuals who I've known before they had a name, and I see them years later and it's like, who the fuck are you?

That's right.

You know what I'm saying.

It's like.

It's like me and you, like before before the cameras came on.

You know, we were on the phone.

We talked about shit that happened thirty thirty five years ago.

You know what.

I'm sad Yo, nothing they never changed, bro.

Like that's the thing, like in this game, like being early, I remember you and be how it used to be on me.

Yo.

If you ain't ten minutes early, you ten minutes late.

You know what I mean?

Stuff like that being in the studio with you all at yo.

You coming to the studio to write the rhyme nigga, I gave you the beat last night.

Write the rhyme in the house.

We not here to spend money.

Wa atch you You write a rap right, like come prepared right, don't come to the studio wasting time.

Then being in the studio, remember writing the rhyme in the studio, you on me like you don't even you can't memorize a round you just wrote.

You supposed to perfect it then come so that way we could be here fifteen minutes.

Get out of there and they charging us by the hour.

We finished the song at twenty minutes and we done.

We saved our money.

Those gyms.

Bro, I still go there, like I just play and go to the studio certain times, like I got an engineering Orlando my homie shop and he say all the time, Yo, bro, you need this.

You need to shoot your studio sessions because other artists need to learn.

Wow, you doing this, This is not normal ration.

Yeah, he like, I never seen somebody come and do two three songs in an hour.

That's that's regular shit.

Just what I'm saying, And I learned that from you, Like you be high Jay, y'are the ones who taught me adequette business, being a man, integrity and number one anything I ever asked you about rapp be yourself, stop rapping like that's effects.

However, I spent a rap.

Stop rapping like thatts I was like, all right, I got you, and I'm thinking I'm killing it, But those was gems that, like you said, man, be yourself definitely, you know what I'm saying.

So that's that's you.

Was the first too, Like the game is switched.

Everybody in the bro you was doing independent in the early nineties, pressing up wasn't even CDs was pressing up Vinyl tapes really running around.

What was that like to be like the pioneer of that that that gang bro.

I mean I could sit here and talk like it was so methodical and all this other shit and strategies and Shitnah, I was just doing what I felt needed to be done, you know what I'm saying.

You know, in eighty eighty five, me j KG and Spanks, Cousins l D and and Joy you know, Erwin Jason from Long Island, we did a song called HP Gets Busy, you know what I'm saying.

And fortunately I had uh, somebody who was really pushing for that, you know, pushing for for me as an artist to be successful, and he came up with the idea like, yo, let's let's do a vinyl.

I mean that was all wasn't the CDs, So it was vinyls And so we did a we did a vinyl, and it just so happened that he was my manager at the time, and he was also the father of April Walker and Walkerware.

Oh walk aware that was that back in the day.

Yeah yeah, I think yeah, she she brought it back out.

She brought it back out.

Yeah.

So so shout out to Jack Walker, April Walker, Jackie Walker, Tahira.

You know they that's family, know what I'm saying.

So so yeah, so so we circulated, We circulated that.

Even before that, I had done some work with Fresh Gordon, you.

Know legends man Gordon.

Yeah, so Gordon used to do you know, he used to do work with the Fat Boys.

I called him and asked him before another interview I was having, could I tell the story about about the song push It.

I saw it in Pepper Gordon produced that Gordon Gordon.

Gordon made that beat and he made it so quick and easy.

And I'm not belittling the song.

The song is a big, big song, but he did it so quick that he was like, uh, you know, he told, he told, He told Herbie love Boy.

He was like, just give me, you know, just give me a couple of grand you know what I'm saying, to take it.

JP, who was his manager at the Times, got JP Edmond.

He was like, Yo, he's offering you some publishing.

Take the publishing.

Gordon.

That's just how he was.

He's like, Yo, just give me the money, and y'all niggas just get out of my face so I could go do other shit that I'm doing.

And me and Jazz could get back to working on songs and shit.

So what happened was he did that be And I talked to him a few times.

I said, I know you, I know, you be punching yourself in the face.

Hell yeah, because that's some cultural classic, like exactly, like it's in movies, commercials, like they got it in the New Peloton much if I'm not missaying it.

Yeah, like it's insane.

And you sold that for two thousand dollars.

But you know, and then back then, two thousand was like twenty grand to that, right man.

And then, you know, in his defense, it was like we back then, we never really saw any publishing money, and we had limited knowledge of what publishing was all about and and how these record companies would actually take the publishing, you know what I'm saying.

And they were making money, but publishing was a big secret, you know what I'm saying.

They you know that the record companies used to tell you back then that oh, don't worry about it, you know, publishing, don't worry about it.

You're gonna make all your money doing shows, going on tour, And I mean they I've seen it.

I don't want to say the names.

But they've said it.

You know, no, I believe it because so many artists from back then.

You hear the same story, man, and it's not It's not just a coincidence.

Everybody got the same story, right.

Right, Yeah, it is hell like so dah, I forgot what the fun we was talking about.

No, I was.

I was just saying, like the Independent pressing up the music, and and like I said, you was pressing up vinyl.

These guys out here find it difficult to hit sin.

Now I think about it.

All you gotta do is hit sin and it goes on every platform.

And these guys act like they're doing hard work.

I still don't know where to press up a vinyl act like.

And I was in the vinyl era, right.

You know what's funny.

There's a what was that ship?

I think it was on South fourth Street on the South Side and Brooklyn.

They had this this spot that used to do all of the They used to make the dub plates for all of the you know, all the I don't want to say Jamaican, but I'll say reggae and everything calypso related to that.

They used to do all the dub plays for that but yeah, and and and another way that the music circulated, Like I found like me and Gordon, we found out that we had done a couple of songs and we put it on cassette tape, and people was copying it, copying it, copying it, and this shit got as far down to like Florida, you know what I'm saying.

They was like, they was like, yeah, I heard Luke Scott Walker got your cassette.

Damn.

That's major back then, because there was no distribution, no YouTube, no Instagram.

So to get a tape a record from New York to Florida, I mean that was hand delivered exactly, straight, exactly, Like that's insane.

And I don't think these kids even understand them magnitude on how hard it was to promote music.

Back then.

It was not as easy, and you could just say, like music is just is everywhere.

You can't even escape it anymore.

You like it's in your face.

Back then, if you if you walk by the music store, you didn't think about music for the rest of the day, think about it.

If you went in the sneaker store and bought it and say, y'all, I'm gonna spend my last on these Jays records didn't matter.

You're like, Okay, I go down to watch video music Box and after that this is whatever I watch NBA.

But today music, TV, cable phone, iPad, like anywhere you look, music is so accessible today.

Do you feel like, what's one moment or record you feel proves your legacy better than headlines could ever do?

The Originators classic and and the thing about it is that I had done something that nobody else did.

And the history on that was shout to David Gregory a ka cool KG DJ from from Marcie.

Shout out to him because he used to let us come in the crib.

You know, he had the eight a weight that was the first machine he had.

He had the eight aweight and he was DJing, you know, you know Gregory family, Nate, Dave spank On down was always out with the music.

So we used to go a few of us, like going in and in Rome.

You know I actually met I actually met Gordon Fresh Gorton through KG.

Damn.

That's crazy.

And so yeah, I lost my thought.

No, no, no, you good, I got you.

I said, the record defining your moment better than headlines as you said the originator.

Right, So what happens is the history behind the Originators was that I was, you know, me and KG.

We used to do what was really called a mixtape.

That was the original meaning of a mixtape back then.

It wasn't like a bunch of songs.

It was like a DJ cutting shit up, cutting up beats and mc raymen.

Yeah, that was a mixtape and it was literally a tape.

So so I was I was going up the KG crib and we was doing tapes.

So one day I had this rhyme that I wrote and it was too many syllables to fit in sixteen you know, like one six teams, you know, like for four to fourth for a measure, and so I had to squeeze the word in and you know, I ain't want to be off beat, so I kind of I kind of doubled it up and kind of tripled it up.

So so after we would make a tape a lot of times, you know, and I used to drink beer back then.

We would get it was before to forty ounce, it was the thirty two ounce.

Two.

Yes, we would go.

We would go to to ninety seven Park and sit on the bench.

In to nine.

That's it's still there, man, yeah.

With the with the JVC.

KG had a couple of jvcs.

One remember the one JVC with the one big Wolfer.

So that was the Black Party specialist.

So we was we would sit there, we would sit there and listen to our work.

And KG kept rewinding the part where I doubled up on a word and he was like, Yo, how'd you do that?

I was like, I just did it, you know, And he was like, yo, you should do that more.

And then incidentally, and they didn't hear.

They didn't hear, like Jay didn't hear KG say that.

But Jay said the same thing.

He was like, Yo, you should do that more.

And I was like interesting and me and you gotta understand me.

At the time I was at I was the I was the apex predator MC, not only in Marsie but in Brooklyn.

So I didn't really give a shit about like, yo, you know, like I feel like I felt like I already impressed everybody.

So the only person left for me to impress is myself.

And I know that sounds it is, what the fuck it is you mean, you know.

But as you're right, you do got to impress yourself.

Man, if you want to happy.

If you ain't impressed by your own work, then you can't be writing rhymes just for the people around you.

Right, it's a problem.

Yes.

And I do the same thing with beats, Like a beat that I make and I don't I'm not crazy about it, Like you'll never hear it.

You'll never hear a beat that I made that I didn't like because I turned the machine off race everything.

So so to get to get back to to that, like Jay was like, yo, you should do that more.

And then in our routines we started doing this shit and all around.

And this was a pivotal time because this was around the time that I had eventually got a record deal, like a single deal with Tommy Boy Records, and it was for R and B.

It was damn yeah.

So I did this song called I'm in Love and I had featured on a B side because Gordon had a deal with Tommy Boy too.

He's the one to put me on the Tommy Boy or I should say he put them on to me.

And we did this song called My Felot which was an answer to my Adidas Yeah, and that went over real well.

And so to get back to Jayson saying like yo, should do should do that more.

Around this time was the time that you know, the single deal was over with and me and Gordon we were still doing music together.

And this cat Marlon Prescott, I know, I know you probably know who Steve Prescott was.

Yeah.

Yeah, So so Marlin he started coming through, you know, the Gordon's crib.

He heard me.

He was like, Yo, you need to be on a major record company.

It was like yeah, okay, because you know we're young.

It's like, yo, we do records.

I'm getting money out here about no record company.

So long story short, he set up a meeting and I'm I'm gonna kind of kill it there because that shit goes into a whole intertwine.

When I got the deal, I told JAYD that I got the deal, and I asked Jay like, yo, they sent me out to London.

It's like you with it.

He was like yeah, and he had to get you know, he had to get consent because he was under eighteen.

And that's around the time they my management introduced us to IRV Gotti.

God bless IRV Gotti.

Invested in Power, so we so that's what that's what happened.

So Earth was reluctant to go, but he came.

He came with us, and then that happened.

So then so then the second album, I wanted to get Jay more involved, you know, on the creative and because Jay was for the most part he was doing he was doing like little ad libs, one liners and ship on my on my because I wanted to associate him or you know, yes, in some kind of way.

Not it was funny than him falling out the sky in Hawaiian Sophie.

That's crazy out y'all.

If you see this, I apologize, man, I apologize it.

It was not mintent to how you looking crazy like that?

You know, yo?

For that time, it wasn't it was It wasn't.

That was fly.

We was in the projects, hype from growing up and getting older, and the way the world went is like, yeah, angle yo jok where you came from.

But you can't.

That's that's because he he created such a brand where unless you see it on video, you can't even imagine that it started from that point.

Yes, and he was like what sixteen seventeen in that video.

It was like, let me see shit, I don't even remember.

He was like, He's like she was like, let me see, we had already gone to London.

I think he was seventeen or eighteen.

D Look, that's crazy, man, that's insane.

Yeah, that's insane.

That was fire.

Like that video the Originator song man, y'all doing that song?

Who produced that record?

I did you made the originator beat too?

You're talking about the first one, the original?

Yes?

Yeah, yeah, I made that beat you did?

Ain't no nigga too?

Right?

Yes?

And a rap game crack game.

Yes.

I don't think you get enough credit for your for your drum pads, dog like your air on these beats.

You made classics and just chill.

But yeah, yeah, you know, And I have to.

I have to be accountable for that shit because a part of me regrets it because I'm like, yo, like the fuck is wrong with you?

Like you should keep going?

You talk about you know, you know what they say, like you can't.

You can't complain about something that you're not gonna do anything about, you know what I'm saying?

Right?

So I was guilty of that.

You know, I would complain about how how fucked up the industry was becoming, well, the hip hop part, I mean entertainment.

We didn't go into that started out fucked up.

But.

I couldn't.

I couldn't rightfully say anything about it and not respond in a way or to become the counterbalance to the to the bull or at least what I saw is bullshit.

So that's kind of this is kind of like a this is kind of like a re rehashing of jazz, oh, you know, because you know, don't let the gray hairs fool you.

No, man, that's that wisdom boy, like some men putting it down forever.

Bro, Like, think about it.

Those three records, the originator, Ain't No Nigga, Rap Game, Crack Game, those three records that changed any producer or artists, rappers life like it didj Yeah, yeah, straight up because everything changed after it Ain't No Nigga.

Yeah, that's a fact.

Straight up.

Everything changed after Ain't No Nigga.

You know, and I knew shit was different.

I'm like it was like in the beginning, I'm bringing erv and Jay out and Ain't No Nigga was really the time where Jay was like we going to Miami, m and I was like, and it was bigger because it was no it was no record label budget that was appropriated for that.

It was like him saying like, Yo, this is what we're doing.

That's right, you know what I'm saying.

And we out.

I was like, oh shit, this shit is real.

Word up.

So yeah, man, we're not seeing it change jazz like me when they hit when I knew, oh shit, it's different.

We was in VA.

I had some type of I think it was an in store or a show.

And the limo we was in the limo.

We pull up in a limo and everybody just rushed the limo.

Bro, like, they rushed the limo.

It's so crazy.

They dn it the limo.

The side of the limo was don it.

That's how many people was trying to bum rush to get to the limo.

And we all in the car j telling we pull off, pull off, and we looking at each other like yo, is this real?

Like right, this is like is it real?

I remember everybody looking at it like is this really happening?

Like this is shit you see in the movie?

Yeah, video video teams running behind the cock stars.

Yeah, see, DC is some shit.

You know.

They was pulling the boobies out and everything.

Remember I'm fourteen at this time, so you know I'm sitting there like open the door right's running to.

The light knowing you're gonna get half kill, just.

Like both the Knights come to the light Clarice right, yea, whoa.

So with all that that, man, you're a goat man.

Seriously, if no one ever told you, bro, I'll be the one to tell you your goat man.

They definitely one of the goats.

And with that being said, how do you feel where Brooklyn's placed in hip hop is today?

From where we started.

It's definitely not the same and it runs universally across New York period because of the influence of the media, it sort of compromised the creativity.

And what I mean by that is radio commercial radio at that time, before even before digital radio.

Radio at that time started playing the same music nationwide.

So if you see the program list for New York, you could go to Detroit and it'd be the same program list.

And that's you know.

Of course, they say that's what really monetized and this, that and the other with hip hop, but it really added or contributed to the enslavement of the the people who's actually spending the marketing, spending the money, you know.

And so I think that like when you hear artists Now it's not new, it's not new hip hop.

It's it's like you from you from Best Star and you Roman, like you from Louisiana.

Now I ain't.

I'm not taking a jab at Castle Rama like rom and they sound like they're from Louisiana.

If they from Louisiana, that's right, you know.

But we lost our identity, you know what I'm saying.

And and it was a it was a.

It was actually playing that way.

It was actually playing that way.

It's like nah, because these motherfuckers in the city, meaning New York, they're too progressive.

And especially around the time where you had you had groups like Brand Nubian myself.

There are a few, a few other cats I don't come to mind right now.

But the Castle made Peach Fuzz.

Damn peach Fuzz.

Who's that?

I was thinking the rest of development.

You had Daylat Soul, You.

Had day La Soul, you had Yeah, it was more, it was more conscious, even even PM doing.

That African band Bader public enemy definitely public and the arrest one he heard.

But when he turned into the philosopher, because at first he was an.

Assassin, right right right.

The first k R restaurant wasn't a sas right then he became the philosopher for.

KRS one point one.

As a fact Hers one point one.

So what advice would you give young artists coming out today, no matter being from wherever they're from, New York, Louisiana, as you said, like, what advice would you give them on how important ownership and longevity is?

Firstly, to recognize your creativity for what it is is creativity.

Second, recognize the business and learn the business for what it is.

Because one thing that we did back then, we got we got them intertwined, so we were being creative.

And I still I still hear people say it today is like, Yo, that song right there is crazy, Like you put this out, it's gonna It's like it ain't gonna do nothing without marketing dollars, without a strategy, you know what I'm saying.

So it's still people to this very day who get it mixed with a song that they personally think is a hot song on a creative level, thinking that it's good, they think that it should be successful.

But in order for a song to be successful, it has to be exploited.

That's right, and it has to be playing a real plan fucking in everything has to go into it.

And there's a lot of moving parts too.

That's racket moving.

That's right, a lot of trickery now you got ai whoa.

It's a whole menagerie of things that contribute to the success of a song, because I mean, we've all heard songs that when it hit our ear drums, it's like this shit is jarbag.

But after about three four thousand plays, this heavy rotation is shit fire Like even if even if you still don't like it, you find yourself singing in song.

It ron yep yep, A hundred percent agree, man, Like, that's what I would say to these kids, man, definitely one hundred percent be yourself and originality is something that's lost.

Man.

Like, I feel like we're in a copy and paste world, definitely, you know what I mean?

We living in a is major like.

So like the legacy of jazz o, man, when people say your name jazz zo, when they think about jazz and everything that you contributed, Like, what's the picture you want them to paint of you beyond the guy who they say just put jay z on, Because it's more than jazz o than just j is larger than life you know, everybody, I can't do nothing anything I do.

He did it, I go on vacation, he paid for it, right, yo, Hey, so I get it.

That's why I need you to say it yourself so they can get it, because I have to say it four million times a day.

Right.

And what's crazy is that I, you know, believe it or not, I fall under that category often.

It's well, so I would want or I would like for people to remember the thought and my sincerity, like regardless of whatever music I put out, that it was all from the heart.

You know.

And of course, you know a lot of artists would be like, well why would you say it?

You know, I didn't say things just to impress people.

And this may be like a this may be the worst selling tool that I could use, but shit, I'll into this minute.

I'm still trying to keep impressing myself, right because I feel like to me, and it may sound a little narcissistic, but to me, I'm the highest intellect, I'm the best.

I'm the best reference to to as far as judging what a good song is, what a good rhyme is, you know, what an excellent rhyme is, What the best thing is like I go back and forth, like I still dabble on my drum machine, and like I still go back and forth in my own head.

It's like that, ain't it, you know what I'm saying.

So, so that's what and and and I kind of wanted.

I'm you know, I'm right.

I'm in the process of writing books.

So that's the main thing I want to impress upon people is that this wasn't always how many strings you could get or how many billboards you on, you know, for some of us out here, it was about this is something we did because we enjoyed it.

We wasn't getting paid for it at the time.

We were just doing it and places we had to go, you know, me and Jay, we traveled, we went through you know, before the deals and stuff like that.

Me and Jay used to go after we heard about we heard about Dougie Fresh.

Guess what we were.

We were in all of them, That's right, you know what I'm saying.

We went to where the action was and that's what it was about.

And it wasn't about getting paid all like that.

And then you know, my shit, my first taste of getting bred was like a MC contest and I was like I could just go on the stage and do what I do in my sleep.

Damn there and you know, y'all gonna give me some money.

Word but you know, and the and the crazy part about it.

All right, I'm trying to think which club this was.

It was it was Broadway International and.

Young I don't remember that spot.

Yeah, yeah, so it's cool.

It's cool.

So Broadway International.

We used to go up there, and you know, it was a lot of it was a lot of us.

It was.

I ain't gonna miss anybody name, y'all know what you know, salute exactly, exactly exactly.

But I gotta I got a shout out.

I got a shout out, my man slide, you know, scared, I got I can hear that name and forever, right, I got a shout out, kiddo, his brother Poe Pony, who else is it?

Moo Moo used to come out with us sometime.

Uh, shout out to all y'all.

It was other things with us, but you know, and Jay was definitely there.

Oh l d Errol kg cousin, you know, he was with us a lot.

Uh and and and on that occasion too.

So it's so much ship man like I get like a flood.

I know what what you start going is like all the memory start coming.

Like it's like a tree with brandrand Sorry, I know exactly what you're going through.

Branch got a brand, and then the leaves and then the Yeah, so it's a lot.

So back then, they had this MC contest and I'm trying to think, what's his nigga name, mister mister song.

But he was the manager, right if I don't remember your name, like hit my social media and remind me of something if you see this of course.

But yeah, he was like, yeah, we're doing We're doing a rap contest.

You know, the winner get one thousand dollars.

I was like, word, so I got in it.

Let me tell you who was in the car?

Who the finalists were?

Uh Dana daan Chi and what's what's my man?

Just Ice?

Just Ice was he was rhyming with this other kid, I think his name was.

He called himself Triple Ta or something or Tricky Tea or something.

And just Ice, you know, just Ice was a bully from a long time AFO.

He got mad at the nigga.

Change yah, just Ice, he got mad at the nigga and he was like, I'm gonna just do this ship myself, and and the same thing happened.

Like me Errol and Jason we were we we entered the contest together, but it really just ended up being me like and no disrespect to them or nothing, but they ran out of rhoms that ship word, you know what I'm saying.

They ran out of rhyms, and they were like, fucking you got it.

And so so we were the finalists.

It was me, just Ice and Danna Dane and the prize was one thousand dollars and you know I won smoked Danga Dane and just Ice legendary ship.

Come on, man, Danna Dane put the ballet's on right right from you know, they.

Yo.

You know, they was the what's the name they was?

They were the Him Him, Slick, Rick and somebody else Crush.

They would call it the Kingo Crew.

Oh the Cano crew.

See I was I didn't even know about that crew.

Yeah, funny little tipbit though.

You know they were taking the rece We were taking the recess, and I was going to use the bathroom.

So when I went in the bathroom, Dana, i mean Rick was was coaching Dana on hot.

And chill, and he still went out there and got smoked.

See yo, let me tell you something now.

And I don't know, I don't know why, but it seemed like Rick didn't like me for a long time.

Every time my song he had this look.

I don't know if it was the respect or he's like, I just don't like this man.

Respect.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I've seen him recently.

I mean, we were kids, to be honest, we were kids, and I don't I don't take offense to it.

And I hope if he hears this that he doesn't take offense to it because I didn't even back then.

I didn't take offense to it.

I knew how people responded to me for whatever reason.

And it was great.

Man.

He was too nice, man, That's what it was, Jazz was you was ahead of your time.

Man.

That's that's a lot of I say that about a few people in the game like you.

You You were.

One of the ones that was just so nice that people didn't catch on until later to where they like, oh, this way he was talking about, this is this ship he was doing, you know what I mean?

Like, think about it, bro, Like I said, you brought panthers to the projects.

Yeah, niggas can't even bring black cars to the projects.

Certain people, stay, haven't even brought a black car.

You brought a black panther the projects.

So let's clear that up.

And another baby the baby line.

Yeah, like in this industry, you built numerous entities.

You taught you evolve.

What's the next chapter of Jazzo's life that's being written?

You know you said you got a book coming out.

Yeah, I'm I'm doing I'm doing several books, and it's really about you know, it's kind of like the it's kind of like a pleasurable pressure, like to always do stuff that's original.

So so for me, it's like I'm doing sort of like a you know, background like it's it's a it's a it's an autobiography, but it's done in pieces.

But amidst excuse me, amidst the the pieces of different errors in my life, there is there are lessons like the first like the first volume of seven is gonna be about you know, poetic what they call poetic license was but the different uh what do you call them?

Can't come up with the word right now, but they're different, like you know, auto monopia.

Similarly, pros the different you know, uh, double entendres, you know, and I list a certain amount and just teaching people what these things are and how I utilize them, and basically coming to the point of creative writing, and that everything you write to an extent is creative writing, from a book report to a business plan.

You know, there's creativity involved because if there isn't, guess what, nobody's gonna pay any attention to it.

You gotta have a flair.

You gotta have a flair for something different, like what's outstanding in this that's gonna make me spend some money on you or whatever the case.

So my my legacy is to impart in part not information, but u physical, experiential, and spiritual.

I guess you could call it anecdotes, you know what I'm saying of what of what shit is about?

Like from from my perspective, I don't think because I to be honest with you, I mean, we all have our own perspective and none is exactly a light.

But I think that in certain things, mine is more contrasting than a lot of other people and I and that's what I that's what I want to share with the world and make that my legacy that's what's up.

Man.

I can't wait.

I know, I'm tune in.

I'm tuning.

I'm buying all seven.

We said you got seven different chapters with seven different books, when I'm buying all seven because it's my mentor jazz ze man, Like what, how can I say this?

Because it's almost like me asking myself this question, me asking you this question, right, what do you feel like you still want to accomplish?

That will be like the full circle closure to everything for you.

I know it sounds general, but to balance, like I was talking about earlier, to counterbalance a lot of the things that grieve artists and and the music audience in hip hop in particular.

You know what I'm saying, like the stuff you have to deal with, like oh I can't, I can't do this because this is stopping me or they make you pay for this, and I mean it's coming around to that.

But at the same time, there's a price to pay because what you were talking about ownership, and I think that is of course, it's gonna put a big fucking red flag next to my name and you know, a target on me.

But it's like that's the key to bring back ownership because if you made it, you created it, you should own it.

That's a fact and the only and and it's and the crazy part about it is that there's nobody stopping anybody from owning it.

It's just that the information is not out there.

And then they and then they use this other ship, the streaming as a distractions like why own Why own your ship when you could just create it, publish it and put it on our dsp Yeah, you come to my app and listen to it.

You don't have to own it.

You don't have to bring this home with you and own it.

No, it don't have to be like your couch.

You can just like having a virtue couch Like yeah, I'm opened my eye and lay on my couch.

Yah, that's what yo.

So I totally agree.

Ownership is everything to me, man, Like I was taught that by y'all.

Like and I and I gotta say this too.

Maybe I'm saying too much, but fuck it when I say ownership as a as an individual, you're not supposed to own anything.

You're supposed to control it.

And then the problem.

But the problem is like like say, for instance, my name is Jonathan Burks, right, But that's that's what they told me.

I'm not Jonathan Burks.

My name is Jonathan Burks.

And that's what they use when they send you to court.

That's what they use when they put in all caps and they send you bills.

That's not me.

Jonathan Burks is the hoodie that I put on, you know what I'm saying, and go out into the world and conduct business in commerce.

It's not it's not you, Like your name is not right, it's not you and and and in all actuality, uh, a living breathing soul cannot do business with a corporation or corporate entity.

Period.

So when I say ownership, like, I'm not going to go into the whole whole spiel, but you put it in a place where a document owns all your stuff.

But you are the controller, the controller and grant and the soul controller.

That's the key because owning, owning it doesn't mean anything but but.

Me and you can lose it.

It's some mighty comes to few they could take it from you.

Well, you know, it's opening up companies and putting intellectual property under this you know, corporation, this asset.

Yeah, but a lot of these guys got it like you said, you have to have It's almost like in a publishing game.

You have to have enough music out to generate publishing.

You can make an ass kap of be in my account today, But if you have records, you don't have enough music out generate in a certain amount of dollars, you're just gonna have an empty ass cap of count.

You spend it, right, you're spending more money.

So with the intellectual property owner ship what you told about, it has to be enough for you to you know, control it like that like but that's definitely a major gem drop.

And I just want to say thank you Jazzo for pulling up.

I want to tell you that as a brother, as a little homie of yours, I love you as a big homie.

Everything you love you to contribute it to my life.

Every good and bad day we ever have all gladded up.

That is soul.

Yes, man, and I appreciate you, and I thank you for coming through man.

And trust me, the world loves jazz O and the world needs more jazz O's because if it wasn't for you looking inside and knowing, because you could have been selfish, bro, and a person that's being selfish can stop so many other dreams, by you, by you helping Jay helped me, and I'm helping so many other people.

That's all from your branch.

Like you said, every branch has a different branch, and we still growing leaves on ours.

Yes, I just want to say thank you, my brother, and stay blessed and keep doing your thing.

Jazz O the Legend, Rock Solid Baby Yeh.

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