He is the Joy.

Then job Joke be spending from A b Ram and.

Trumb be Stan, Joby Rock condenjob Brady Me, then job Joe by spending from Beam and Trimble be Stan show Me, stop Doty, show.

Brady ill see by jam Jack.

Nothing to sell them show kill we go.

And here we go, Here we go.

Indeed, Joseph, what's up everybody?

It's the trouble be.

This is the Lone Cooming podcast is episode number three and fifty seven, The Canal Streets Showdown Now.

Uh for our members channel members who were with us on Wednesday night and got a preview what we're going to be doing tonight, this is not it, as you can obviously see.

So uh we'll just leave it at debt and move on.

Yes, right, Joe, Yeah, you know it's uh we're for the other day another member's only show.

Another day, yes, sir, But but before we start off, Double B coming in hot right out of the gates.

Wow.

Five Spook level memberships and uh let's see who got him?

Uh Kee Bi, Yes, Mike c Gress Junior and k got one.

Richard Sipe.

A lot of people get the same memberships gifted as evidence by me getting two or three at this point.

Well, that means we have returning viewers Joe, which is a good thing.

Yep, Deedie, Robert who it might be new and Steven Rose.

Welcome, congratch elations, folks, and thank you to the big double B.

And that's not all.

Bam bam bam bam bam coming through with the super chat.

That's right.

Oh, smash the like button, folks.

It's a little little thing with the thumbs up.

And if you're not subscribed, just subscribe to show.

It's real easy.

Hit the bill to get notified.

When we drop.

You won't regret it.

I promise.

You will not.

And it helps us defeat the A L G O and UH which might be against us.

So it was against this last week.

It's against us pretty recently, like way more than I like.

But it happens.

It is what it is.

Let me welcome in some of our favorite UH channel subscribers, of course, Paula Jane super Spy, what's up, Sally Evening Chaps and chapists ch Is that a word, Sally chapiss?

No?

But chapped asses is.

Yeah, but it's E S S E S not a S S S M.

Semantics.

Yeah, it could be Calney, which is London slang.

You know, there's a little language barrier there.

Double B of course, Lo Sally, of course, we already talked about double B.

Scott Edwards, Hello, sir, how are you?

I'm sure he has a nice, beautiful drink ready?

And uh, mister Jack Taylor, how are you, sir?

Yeah?

And mister PSV Odyssey, how do you?

How do you?

How do you?

How did you?

Sir?

How are you?

Welcome in?

Sir?

You didn't tonight, I didn't.

I made sure and turn Horse do it for l h oh, that's what we do this for him?

And Kennedy, Yes and yes, and James Smith coming in last, but definitely not least.

Yes, welcome in, James.

And I'm sure there'll be some stragglers rolling in here in just a minute.

But before we get started tonight, we're gonna set the table for you a little bit about what we're gonna be talking about here, and if you couldn't figure it out from my amazing brain and the show art, which I'll pop up here one more time.

For those of you not familiar with the American rock band the Misfits, they had a guitarist named Doyle von Frankenstein blah blah blah blah blah, but he mainly went by the name Doyle.

That would be him on the left.

And then we have a movie projector that I put the little name of Doyle and Company on the side of.

We're filming Lee Harvey Oswald handing out leaflets on Canal Street with a picture of Canal Street in the nineteen sixties in the background.

It's very deep, Joe.

A lot of thought goes into the show art.

You might not think that it does.

A lot of thought and effort does go into the show art.

People.

I am aware of this, yes, and yeah.

Joe has no idea and I don't even know Joe on the show art.

I was just about to say, I don't think I even know how much effort was into it.

I try to be somewhat clever because it amuses me.

Sometimes I try to come up with names for the show and show art, and that's my creative side, just pouring out of me, if you will, which is kind of disgusting to think about.

But nonetheless, oh man, before we get started here, and I know I said that two or three times, but let me just set the table a little bit for what we'll be talking about here tonight, called the Doyle film, folks.

Now, this is a film very much maligned with the John T.

Martin film, okay, because these two films captured the exact same thing from different angles, and that would be the street fracas on Canal Street that resulted in Lee Harvey Oswald being arrested and taken to jail and Carlos Brigner and a couple of his buddies arrested and set free.

If you will, now, why is this important?

Okay, Well, we all know the reason that the Martin film is important because it shows something that couldn't be really astronomically odds based possible, and that of course is on the same role of film, you have footage of General Walker's house in Dallas that shows you the shots through the window right, which indicates this kid is in General Walker's house.

And then on the same role of film.

I don't know how long in between we are here from these both these incidents on the film, but you see him travel to New Orleans.

You see different sites around New Orleans like the Zoo and Jackson Square, and then the film cuts to the incident, the fracas if you will on Canal Street, and we've all seen that at a gazillion times.

It's in your brain.

This film was donated to the sixth Floor Museum and you can go watch it there.

And it was shot by a teenage boy, a young, smooth, very right wing teenage boy who was very fond of General Walker.

You may have and talked to this man in New Orleans and been directed to, Hey, kid, I see you've got a camera there.

Hey, why don't you go over there on Canal Street and get some footage of this other guy over there?

Right?

You might wanna, don't know, just speculating here, folks.

Now, the other film was also shot by a very young, smooth teenage boy.

David Ferry would have been proud of these two for sure.

Now this one, however, was not alone.

In fact, he was there with a multitude of people, including siblings, parents, other grown adults who are friends of the parents, and other kids who were the other parents' kids.

So there's a gaggle of fraggles basically walking down Canal Street that happened upon this scene, if you will, and the way it kind of went down, I believe Joe, is that the group of males were in front.

There's like a group of males walking together, which means this boy, his father, his male, his father's male friend, friend, family friend, and if they had a son, it was probably with them.

And then and the ladies were somewhat straggling behind if you will, you know, talking as women do.

They'll be doing a little window shopping, if you will, you know, down Canal Street.

But I believe.

The ladies came were, you know, not not far.

You know, we're talking maybe maybe thirty seconds to a minute behind.

These folks, yeah, half of block maybe, yeah, yeah.

Not because once you get into like we're going to get into the FBI reports and what each of them saw, you'll come to see that the guys and the girls didn't always see the same thing.

Or we have another case of the FBI hi altering testimony if you will, to fit the narrative, which you'll understand once we get into the film itself.

Now, Joe, as you know with the Martin film after and this is true for both the Martin and the Doyle film.

So you know, they don't think anything of this, right, they think they you know, they got some there on vacation whatever.

You know, they got their home movies out.

They make a couple of home movies.

Something happens that wasn't you know.

It was a little exciting, but nothing too crazy, right.

Right right, nothing to call up the FBI about.

Remember twenty second happens and Lee Harvey Oswald's face is plastered all over everything, along with descriptions of him being arrested in New Orleans.

So, independently of each other, Martin and Doyle and their respective families realize, oh shit, that really looks like the guy that we saw get arrested in New Orleans.

And oh yeah, by the way, we had our movie cameras, whether it's we got film of this guy.

Right, So, each of them independently on their own, they weren't tracked down by the FBI.

They called the FBI, and they offered up their home movies.

Now, the interesting thing is is that both the Doyle family and John T.

Martin would also allege that the film they turned over to the FBI to be perused, you know, for anything significant, any clues maybe that would help the world understand Lee Harvey Oswald a little more.

On their own volition, both of them by the way.

Yeah, so they were.

They handed over their films to the FBI.

The FBI, of course, looked at the films, determined that there was nothing of value here, and claimed that they gave the films back.

Now, both the Doyle family and the Martin family, they both say that both of their films were edited by the FBI, as in things were taken out.

And when it comes to the Martin film, as you'll see, a lot was taken out, like two and a half minutes.

Were the shit taken out, like not just a little bit, not five seconds here or there, but significantly edited and then returned to them, which is a problem when once we started getting into the descriptions of what they actually saw that day.

So, Joe, without further ado, let's get into some FBI documents because I think that's where this story starts.

Okay, do you want to show the film first or do you want me to.

Go about that?

Sorry, I got to help.

If everybody saw the film.

It's okay, Tiny, I don't know what the hell you're talking about here, she goes, sorry, there is no evidence that the seventeen year old was behind the camera himself, and she has to be referring to John T.

Martin because Jim Doyle was like fourteen.

Some people said he's sixteen, but according to documents, he's fourteen.

He had the film that was given to the sixth Floor.

The assumption that he shot the film himself is just that assuming.

I believe.

We've got a variety of of documents states that he was definitely the one filming.

There's absolutely no documents out there pretending to John T.

Martin of his parents being interviewed or talked to, which is different when you get to the Doyle film because Doyle at the time is fourteen years old, thirteen or fourteen.

They don't even interview him.

No, they talk directly to his parents.

And we know the little Jim Doyle was there with his parents.

We don't know.

And Rob and I are pretty positive that John T.

Martin made the tructed Orleans without his parents.

Well, we don't know that for sure, No, we assume, but we have a lot of correspondence when we look trust us on this.

There's a lot of stuff in there in the Wisburg archive from when Harold Wiseburg was at the University of Minnesota and him and Gary Schoner ran into Martin, and from talking to him, they got a lot of the background stuff.

You know that he definitely filmed it and all of that.

So and you have the FBI documents in December sixty three of him submitting his his his tape and when he got back home from military school, and it says it was taped by John Martin.

So I'm not sure.

Maybe I misinterpreted that.

If I did, tiny, I'm sorry, but robned it.

You know, all these years he's never dined it.

Whoa, whoa hey now.

Early comment of the night, Possibly David Ferry making tight ends into wide receivers.

You got to make a whole big enough to run through double B.

And Scott says, and I think this is trolling us a little bit.

Not trolling us, but making a joke.

One film for Harvey, the other film the lead.

Well we'll get there, Scott, trust us.

Yeah, all right, So let's take a look at this film real quick.

Joe, let's let me up here.

There's no sound and like I said, it's only about thirty seconds song.

Yeah, hey, mister Ashley, how are you?

Thanks for joining in?

And Timothy Ryan, what's up, sir?

How are you?

And who's heaven touchdowns.

All right, Joe, stop for a second.

Sorry, stragglers are coming in, sir.

All right, here we go.

Here we go, Hi up and check?

Oh t chef, hey Sally wrong video?

Hold on soon one second?

Here we go.

Take two.

Yes, you see Lee in the center there Lee again.

Bunch of cafoozas and white shirts and uh and hats.

And it ends with missus Pat Doyle looking sexy in front of an eucalyptus tree right now, real quick before we Oh.

I never caught that, good catch, missus missus Doyle.

There I did.

I never did.

I never called that smoking miss Doyle.

Yeah.

I mean he was the president of American Constructions something.

We'll get there.

But so you would think he would have a pretty good looking wife.

Now, I paused it here because, as you'll see in the documents, if Joe would stop throwing shit on the screen while I'm talking right there in the middle of the screen, I believe it's a trash can Joe.

Do you see it?

Cylindrical in shape and white?

I do, just to the right of the uh the street line, yeah, yeah.

Yes, And there's something leaning against it that is not facing us, that is actually facing away from us, and I believe, as we'll see in the documents, that may have been one of the placard signs that either Oswald or the guy he was with.

Yeah you heard that right, folks, was wearing.

Yes, I just wanted to point that out there.

Yes, that's a good point, and we will hear that.

It surprised me actually looking at this again and Trey, what's up, buddy coming up with a tunnel or super chrack.

Good to see Sally again, Yes, there was.

Damn.

We're making money tonight, Joe.

You much appreciated from Shree.

Trey Double B task Force hottie from Ireland.

Yeah, I mean Double B is not far off there, all right.

I got to figure out how to get this guy damn video off the screen.

Mm hmm.

Old, please, what the hell?

I promise I'll figure it out here in just a second, folks.

Hmm hmm.

Well that's not.

Mm hmmmm mm hmm.

We don't.

I don't mind looking at missus Doyle.

There we go, all right, we're back, all right.

So yeah, as we like to do, Rob, we like to go in chronological order.

But before we get into the FBI documents, you referenced a minute or two ago.

Are going to be front of Logical Joe.

We discussed before the show.

Yeah, no, I said, no, I don't.

I'm aware.

I see, I said.

Let's because as the video you just showed has like a like a stamp in the middle of it.

The I think it's a w DSU library something.

Friend of the show, Okay, okay, what did it say?

It did not say w DSU library.

Okay, I don't know, but it doesn't matter.

It does not matter, correct A friend of the show Alex Harris, of course JFK theorist on YouTube, friend of Lancer, And whenever I have any video or photo questions, I shoot a message and he gave me a bunch of stills back, and these are stills from the Doyle film.

So I thought i'd go through a couple of these before we get into the NBI documents.

There's only like six of them without the kind of stamp in the middle of it.

And of course in the middle there you see mister Lee or Harvey, depending on your perspective.

Right in the middle of this guy in the suit to the right and the skufu's on the left.

Here you see Lee who is kind of reaching his arm out here talking with the Cubans.

I believe this is Carlos Brgier to the left of his elbow.

Well, we could debate that, and Rob, you'd be surprised to hear that.

A lot of the witnesses said they saw a group of up to eight Cubans.

Yeah, we'll get there.

Yeah, we'll get there.

Yeah.

You have Lee Harvey Oswald kind of like again in the middle, with kind of like some light reflecting off his face, the left side of his face from our view.

Then you have and this is why I said Carlo spring Air, because I think he's the guy to the left of Lee, although it doesn't look like Lee, but from the rest of the.

Yeah, with gigantic forehead.

Yeah, this is another one.

This is another one.

This is Lee here in the middle with kind of like the plumbers crack in his shirt there, kind of talking to the police.

Not the black policeman, which is that.

I just saw that, Rob.

It looks like a black woman policeman.

But I don't think that would have been near.

Yeah, but you're right, that's a good point.

Here you have again Lee.

Take down, not come on now, come on, back up, get up.

Hey, here you have Lee again, his back towards us, I think, bring a to his left and the three police officers one, two, three right around him.

And uh yeah so uh James Pat Doyle Senior, Senior was in New Orleans for convention and his fourteen year old son took this video.

And I think it's a very different circumstances, Rob.

Before I read this than the John T.

Martin film, we have talked about that and how we think John T.

Martin, who obviously had filmed Walker's House, was probably sent from Dallas to New Orleans for something.

Yeah, involved truly organic coincidence.

Correct, Yes, I can't agree more so, it is really interesting to see the similarities between them.

And I think a much better quality movie than John T.

Martin's.

Like I think he had a better camera, better film.

The quality of it is way better.

Yeah, for sure.

So I guess the Doyle's went to the FBI on November twenty sixth let me see when this was transcribed.

Yeah, so this was conducted this interview at FBI Portland off Portland, Oregon, eleven, twenty six, sixty three, So Sunday was the twenty fourth.

This would be the Tuesday after the assassination.

J Pat Doyle, Portland, Oregon, advised that he is employed at an electrical construction work for the Charles T.

Parker Construction Company in Portland.

In August nineteen sixty three, he attended an electrical contractor's convention in New Orleans, Louisiana.

He was accompanied by Matt Wilson, who also is in the electrical construction business in Portland.

Both men were accompanied to New Orleans by their wives and two children.

At about four o'clock in the afternoon on Friday of Friday, August ninth, A good day, if I say so myself, Rob nineteen sixty three, mister Doyle, mister Wilson, and the young son of each were walking on Canal Street, New Orleans, approximately a quarter of a block behind Missus Doyle, Missus Wilson and their two daughters.

Okay, so they were behind, the kids were behind, the wives were in the middle, and the husbands mister Wilson and Doyle were kind of a quarter block ahead of that.

Is that how you read this, That's how you're reading it.

But I think they got it a little backwards, because it seems to me like you'll see here.

As we talked, the Doyles saw something different than the Wilson's, which is odd because there was Matt was with Pat and then the two wives were together.

Yeah.

Yeah, we we'll get there shortly.

I mean, I mean we are, and.

We'll point out the major differences in their story here in just a second.

But we'll go through the Oiles first and then we'll get into what the Wilson say.

Now, I don't know if this is a a matter of you know, the FBI and what questions they asked, or you know, these people remembering things differently.

I don't know, but we'll get there.

Yeah, let's see.

As they've reached a point approximately in the middle of the block, some five blocks toward the Mississippi River from the Jung Hotel, they observed two young men who were carrying signs which bore pro Cuban inscriptions.

They had leaflets in their hands.

One of the men wore on his front a yellow or orange colored sign which bore as part of its inscription the words Viva the Fidel, and he's referring to oswaldt here.

I guess and if you want a visual clue, do you remember the what's that movie with ah ah shahm blanking on his name, Uh die hard, right, Bruce Willis when he went into that neighborhood as a cop and wore that blackard I hate enters.

Well, that's kind of how I feel going into New Orleans.

I could not use the.

Yeah, but that's but I'm making a point here.

I mean like I feel like.

That result's head on Samuel L.

Jackson's body.

Yeah, I feel like that's like not far off as to the kind of he would get.

Yeah, And notice in the language there is multiple points in here where plurals are used, like men not man, men, signs, inscriptions.

Yeah, yeah, good point one of the men yep.

As mister Doyle, mister Wilson and their two sons reached the scene, a group of persons who appeared to be Cubans took issue with the two demonstrators, and almost immediately police officers arrived and prevented trouble.

After a short discussion, the demonstrators were placed demonstrators right just here your point ten seconds ago, were placed in a patrol car by the officers and taken from the scene.

During the argument, a placard carried by the demonstrator not wearing the sign was smashed and the leaflets were torn from the hands of the men and scattered on the sidewalk.

And of course that's what we see in the John T.

Martin film, all those ye flyers.

Yeah, leafless, Yeah, exactly.

The pieces of the placard were placed in the patrol car when the men were taken away.

Motion pictures of the incident were taken by Jim Doyle, fourteen year old son of mister Doyle, following the assassination of President Kennedy.

Mister Doyle and other members of his family viewed the film taken into Orleans and were agreed that the pictures of the young man who wore the yellow colored sign strongly resembled photographs they had seen of Lee Harvey Oswalt.

Again taken on the Tuesday, November twenty six, sixty three, two days four days after the assassination, two.

Days after we were killed, Portland, Oregon.

Yep, yepy by the Portland FBI office.

Yes.

Right, So now we go to missus Jack j Pat Doyle, Leen, you.

Will Charlene, you know, sexty Charlene.

I think that's probably your first name.

But they kind of what is the no.

I know that.

That's how they used to say it, like, you're not missus Charlene Doyle, your missus.

Jiffer her own name.

Damn it, that's Charlene.

Yeah, missus Joe BURRELLI.

Hey, uh, missus j Pat Doyle advised that she accompanied her husband to New Orleans, Louisiana, in August sixty three, where mister Doyle attended an electrical contractor's convention, making the trip with them with their two children, Jim aged fourteen and Sharon, age eleven.

Sharon Sharon bro So.

Asking about Sharon.

Okay, so I'm gonna give a little spoilery.

Man, your boy called the store today that we were going to get into in a little bit.

And I asked, because I heard Jim age fourteen, is not alive anymore.

I go, is Sharon managing this store?

And they go, the Doyles didn't have a daughter.

Interesting, we'll get there.

I promise.

Let's see.

Well maybe she passed away before a certain time period.

That's possible too.

I said, are the Doyles still involved in this business?

They said, no, it's in a trust.

I go, how about Sharon?

They didn't have a daughter.

I was like, what so, because I'm looking at FBI documents.

But this is just some scuffoos on the phone.

We'll get there.

Accompanying the Doyles to New Orleans where mister and missus Matt Wilson of Portland and their two children, Marcia aged thirteen and Donald age eleven Marsha Yeah, and.

Little Donald Trump Doyle Wilson.

Mister Wilson attended the convention with mister Doyle.

On the afternoon of Friday, August ninth, sixty three, at about four o'clock, the two families were walking along to Nell Street, some five blocks from the Young Hotel.

Missus Doyle, Missus Wilson with theirs were walking approximately a quarter of a block in front.

I was wrong, rob of mister Doyle, mister Wilson.

I thought they were behind.

Yeah, I thought I thought I had read that they were in front.

Saw different things.

But we'll get there.

And and about the know the block, they passed two young men who were carrying signs.

Again, this is the wife saying there were two.

There was another Skufuza person with the rfy Oswald.

Again this is both the Doyle's husband and wife telling the story right.

Yes, even though they were walking in two separate portions of the street caravans, yes, which could account for the guys and the girls seeing two different things.

But as you'll see once we get to the Wilson's, their stories match up.

So I don't know, it's gonna be a tough one to figure out, but we're gonna, yeah.

We will definitely try.

One of his men was carrying One of these men was carrying a placard on a stick, and the other were on his front a yellow and orange colored sign which, as part of the wording, said Viva la Fredell.

The two men also were carrying leaflets in their hands.

Okay, so those are both the Doyle parents or I guess wait, there's a little more.

Shortly after the women passed these men.

Okay, so the women passed them first, a disturbance started, So they're right in the middle of it, these oils when other individuals who had passed when the women.

Shortly after the women passed these men, Yes, a disturbance started with other individuals after she passed Oswald and the Cubans or Oswald and his scuffs a friend, yes, who had the appearance of started when other individuals who had the appearance of Cubans started arguing with the demonstrators.

The placard was smashed and the leaflets scattered on the sidewalk.

Police officers soon appeared, however, and prevented further trouble.

They also placed two young men.

The two young men in a control car along with the pieces of the placard and took them from the scene.

Now, Rob, I'm not aware of anyone else, and if you are, please let me know and educate me of anyone else.

Arrested with Lee Harvey Oswald on August ninth, nineteen sixty three.

No, just the three Scafuza Cubans, Mariner Hernandez.

And Manuel Cruz or something.

Right now, Miguel Cruiz, it was Cruiser, wasn't Miguel Cruzky.

Mgel Cruise, Manuel Miguel Oh, same details matter.

Thank you for correcting me, sir.

As we'll see.

There may have been more.

They want more, a lot more.

During the difficulty, motion pictures were taken of the incident by young Jim Doyle.

Since the assassination of President Kennedy, Missus Doyle and her family viewed the pictures taken by her son and had agreed that the demonstrator who wore the yellow colored signs strongly resembled photos they had seen of Lee Harvey Oswald.

And of course we just went through those skills and we can confirm it is indeed Lee Harvey Oswald.

Now, Joe, I would I would also say it's a little suspicious how fast the cops rolled up on the scene, which again screams to me, this is some kind of a stage thing, right, The fact that John T.

Martin is there filming, the fact that this fracas didn't get out of hand because the cops were there immediately, Like, oh, it just so happens.

There was a police car driving by when all this shit happened.

Maybe, but what are the odds, you know what I'm saying, Like, I mean, there's some there's some odds there immediately, like immediately immediately.

Yeah.

And then when you consider what Lee allegedly said to Carlos bringing saying, all right, Carlos, come.

On, hit me, yeah, like he knew he wouldn't because the cops pulled up, you know, like, let's all go to jail.

Hit me, make a better story, hit me, right.

Yeah, I mean sometimes some of the toughest people on the surface or people that know what's going to get intervened right away.

Oh and again you got to remember too that this was probably the second fractice that Oswald was involved in with Cubans, and the first one he kind of got his ass kicked a little bit.

He definitely got roughed up.

I don't think you have this in the presentation, Joe, but it should be mentioned here.

The easterly Yeah, well, you know Oswald wrote that letter on August the first to VT.

Lee, okay, talking about an altercation that he had with some Cubans and that the police got involved.

Okay, Well, this incident we're talking about here that was filmed by these two boys didn't happen until August ninth.

Now, he wrote the letter on August first, It is postmarked.

He mailed it at six thirty at night on August the fourth from New Orleans.

Again August fourth to August the ninth, This incident still hadn't happened yet.

Okay.

So it was Oswald again looking into the future and either having knowledge that they were going to try to stage this again to garner some attention, or was he referencing a prior incident and let's just say me and Joe are looking into some other things about this to try to bolster that argument a little bit with supporting evidence.

But that is out there and I'll just leave it at that here for now, because we got something big coming up here in a couple of months.

I'm just saying, yes, we do, Yes, we do.

We have some fun things on their arrival here.

Sorry.

Ye.

So, of course, the Doyles were interviewed on November sixth, as is stated at the bottom of this document, the FBI document, it's actually warm commissioned report, the Gibberling Report.

I believe it is.

Well, that's just documents in the Jimberling report.

Yeah, well, no, it was.

The interview was conducted on the twenty sixth and released on the twenty seventh, from what I could see, And then on the same on the twenty seventh, you have an FBI report two Director Jayagahova from Space Religion in Charge, Portland, Oregon.

And this is the really interesting thing, Rob Jack.

This is the title of this Jack Leon Ruby aka Jack Rubinstein, Lee Harvey Oswald, ak Alec j haydel oh Lee Victims civil rights forwarded under separate cover to the bureau forwarded under separate cover, So their communication about the Doyle film was forwarded under separate cover, as in, like the title wasn't the Doyle film, for example, they kind of I think they tried to hide it under like these general things, right, these general titles.

Let me know your thoughts, you can love me.

I don't know.

It just might have not been in the same package as the paperwork, because I as well, hopefully you have when it comes to the Doyles and how they got their film developed, and what exactly they showed to these to these guys and what what got sent, you know, recommendation wise, I think, and again with the allegations of the film being edited, I think you're right that the film was sent with some other documents and this is just a basically a sanitized version of an accompanying document to the film.

Yeah, it might be.

I'm not I'm not sure, and I really do hope I have that.

I think I do.

At approximately four o'clock in the afternoon, it's that same document, the FBI document kind of recapping the Doyles test morning.

But don't scope over the last line of that first page there and closed herewith for Dallas are nine copies of FD three O two's incorporating information supplied by mister and missus Doyle.

Nine copies.

Folks, you don't send nine copies of anything unless it's a little bit of an important Yeah.

Thank you, thank you for pointing out.

That's why I am glad you are are watching.

At approximately four o'clock in the afternoon on Friday, August nine sixty three, the two families walking on Canal Street in New Orleans when they observed two young men who were carrying pro Cuban signs and distributing leaflets.

One carried a placard on a stick.

According to young Sharing Doyle, this placard bore the figure statue of Liberty and some such wording as Cuba and chains, and only ninety miles from the US.

The other man, possibly Oswalt, was wearing on his front the yellowish or orange color sign which bore the wording quote Viva la Fidel, which we heard from the Doyles and other believed similar to that on the placard.

The Jowell family were agreed on the Viva la Fidel.

The Doyle said that the demonstration was taking place in the approximate middle of the block on Canal Street, some five blocks towards Mississippi over John Hotel.

As the Doyles and Wilson's passed the area, the two demonstrators were quote rushed by eight cubans.

Yeah.

Let's pause there for a second.

Take that in eight cubans, which is five more then we know it?

Yeah, not three, three and eight?

Big difference, big difference.

Yeah.

Who argued vigorously with the two men again, isn't three one one?

We have eight on two?

Yeah, And trouble appeared imminent continuing.

Several police officers arrived on the scene immediately, however, both by car and on foot, and after talking to the two demonstrators for a time, apparently arrested them them, both of them, and placed them, Yeah, and placed them in a patrol car.

This, however, was not before the placard on the stick had been smashed and the leaflets scattered on the sidewalk, which in the Martin fill.

It was believed by the Doyles that the pieces of the placard were picked up and placed in the police car.

Interesting.

Mister Doyle commented that the policemen were able to arrive on the scene so hurriedly, apparently because they had been quote keeping an eye end quote on some picketing by Negroes which was taking place across the street a short distance away.

Okay, well that kind of explains why the cops were there immediately, but also very convenient.

Yeah, very convenient.

And Negroes are different from from Cubans.

Yeah, he would say, like picketing by other dark colored folk whatever, Yeah, it's different.

The pictures of the incident and the enclosed role of film This is Again November twenty seventh were taken by young Jim Doyle.

It was noted that other vacation pictures appear in the role, both before and after the New Orleans incident.

Of course, like Jean Martin film, right, like when he went to the zoo and the park and you know, city Hall and all that bullshit.

Right, Not everything is Oswald.

The pertinent portion of the film occurs immediately following scenes showing Sharon Doyle in front of the statue and a brief view of Missus Doyle standing alone.

It ends with the view of what appears to be a warehouse on the river.

Yes, that that's the very end of the film.

At one point, the individual who is possibly Oswald And it's not possibly Oswald.

We know it was.

It's very obvious can be seen with his back to the camera.

Again, we talked about that.

You know, he kind of had his shirt tucked in that kind of looked like a plumber's whatever.

Correct, right, we made that joke talking to an officer he is motioning with one hand.

Saw that as well.

Mister Doyle explained that he apparently wasn't indicating that he had a right to walk on the sidewalk, and that sounds like an argument Lee would make.

All right, I can.

Sidewalk free speech rights.

Yes, yes, I get a million.

Walk.

At one point, his yellow sign can be seen.

Of course we don't see that sign in the Doyle.

Or John T.

Martin film, but not deciphered.

His companion never appears again, leading credence to things were taken out.

And you have to wonder, Rob, why would you take out his companion in these videos unless this companion was an asset or maybe even an agent of yours.

Exactly.

Yeah, the film is being forwarded in order that the Bureau may make copies to the pertinent scenes.

Bla blah blah.

An in a view of the circumstances.

Information, however, that it eventually the film be returned to him.

Yes, he said, keep it as long as you need, but give it back to me eventually.

And this is when Wiseberg comes in a little it was returned to him in sixty four.

But he then contacts Wiseberg and says, this isn't the film.

I took type of thing, and Wiseberg does like a foia, and it creates a whole other yeah, thing of documents.

And then this is This is later that day.

This is Matt Wilson.

This was the skufuza that was with J.

Pat Doyle, also from Oregon.

Both men were accompanied by their wives and children.

Family consistent of his wife and two children, Marcia and Donald blah blahlah.

The location of the entire group with some the same thing.

As mister Wilson and his companions reached a point about the nod of the block, they noted a young man who was wearing a yellow colored sign, again corroborating that Oswald was probably wearing a yellow colored sign during this whole thing.

I was just carrying a sign.

Yeah yeah.

About the time this young man was observed a group of individuals who appeared to be Cuban's approach and took issue with him.

Police officers soon arrived prevented trouble.

It's kind of worded the same way, and the leafless were tore before being scaret sidewalk.

And then you have something from.

Real quick go back.

Yeah.

Now what's missing from this statement, folks, is any mention of two men.

There is no mention of men or two men.

As you can see, they noted a young man who was wearing a sign, thus sign not signs bore this something and at the time this young man was observed, right, so that there's no plurals, there's no men.

There's no two men from mister Wilson as opposed to the Doyles.

You know, that's a really good point, Rob, because we know that the Doyles were interviewed on eleven twenty six, right, the Wilsons, and I didn't include his wife's thing in here because it's gone the same thing.

We're interviewed the day after.

But if you look on the bottom right and quarter date dictated was two days later.

Well that's what's interesting because his wife, her FBI statement also does not mention two men signs, no plurals, no men.

But again you had the women walking together.

So you have missus Doyle saying there was two guys.

You have missus Wilson saying there was one.

And then you have mister Wilson and mister Doyle walking together, and mister Doyle says there are two guys.

Right, his daughter Sharon said there are two guys and she was walking with the ladies.

But mister Wilson says there was one guy.

So it's very odd, very odd.

And I think rob like it wasn't dictated until the twenty ninth, so it makes me think like they're trying to get their ducks in a row by this point.

To watch the film figure out, oh shit, Luke, he's in here with Lee.

We need to trim this down a little bit.

And then they transcribed the Wilson's interview and eliminated all mention of plurals men's you know, and being one man, one sign, three humans, not eight, you know that kind of thing.

Like right, exactly, Yeah, and and listen, they had a couple more days to kind of get their ducks in a row.

And yeah, because at about the same time, Joe really in Minnesota, Right, you have kind of the same thing going on with the Martin film right about the same time.

Uh yeah, I think John Martin gave the film or contract the FBI when he got back from military school, like early December.

Some of this would have been a week or two before that.

Maybe I don't know.

I'd have to go back and look at the documents.

Yeah, but but like, but that's the thing, like that they don't know exactly what loose ends to tie up in the early days of this ship, right.

Yeah.

Obviously it was bad enough whoever this other person was with Oswald to be like, all right, at this point, this motherfucker has to be a lone nut.

Okay, we can't have him with this person, especially or especially with this person, you know, whoever this person was.

Yeah, because it was it would have created ways too many more questions that they couldn't answer or maybe didn't want to answer.

Yeah, I think didn't want to answer.

I mean, I think it would be perfect to interview the Wilsons and have them kind of confer addict what the Doyle said so they could be like, we don't know what's going on type of thing.

Was there one?

Was there two?

This is an FBI report, This is not an interview with like a transcript transcript of the interview, right, so they can kind of dictate what the report said.

It wasn't for public consumption really.

Right, It's crazy, man, We're getting there, We're getting there.

So I also found it interesting that it was dictated two days later twenty seven, twenty ninth, because this was dictated one day later.

Well you figure, you know, they talked to the Doyles, and they got their story, and then they mentioned that Wilson's were with them, so then they had to track down to Wilson's, right and you know, talk to them and then so yeah, it makes sense.

Yeah, but but like what better strategy than to like have their uh like details of their description like go against each other, right, to be like, we don't know what's going on type of thing.

Everything more confusing, right exactly because at the point that they took to Doyle's testimony or interview or whatever, they hadn't seen the film yet.

You know, I'm sure the interview takes place and then the film's handed over, right, so at that point, you know, who is who is this other guy with him?

Who?

I mean, who knows couldn't be it could be nothing, couldn't could be not a big deal, could be some skafuzza like he hired to hand out, you know, pamphlets like Charles Steele guy or whatever.

You know that's actually no with no affiliation.

Then they watched the film and they were like, oh shit, this guy somebody with some.

Of some affiliation, right right right, And and I have to cover up that.

By the end, the reports are made type of.

Thing, and you know, now we have to fix those reports.

Yeah, but let's talk to the Wilsons and we'll kind of change the narrative a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you really don't even need the wilsons testimony at this point.

I mean, I guess they could corroborate some stuff, but.

I can't say the FBI didn't do their due diligence.

Joe.

That's true.

As mister Wilson and his companion has reached a point about the middle of the block, they know it's the young man who has worked mean this.

Ready, Yeah, because we pointed out that it's singing young man man one.

Yeah, okay, so then why burg So we're talking late nineteen sixty three.

Some of this is in the warrant Commission in the Gamberling report.

But then you have Wiseburg doing kind of like a Foyer sending an email or message to the Deputy Attorney General and this is the Justice Department, and or I guess that's from the Attorney General to the FBI.

It's hard to read.

But mister Wiseberg, when the course of doing his his Foyer request on the Martin film, I believe he was he was also.

You know, he lumped them in.

No, No, you're right.

No, he said, I want these films of the assassination.

I want the Doyle film, I want the Martin film, I want this, I want that.

He loved it together, right, Yeah, but I'm saying, like.

You know, he probably received some documents on both films, you know, I would guess or he saw a reference to this in the in in the Commission documents the Doyle film, and upon seeing the Martin film and hearing John T.

Martin's description of also there being somebody with Oswaldt.

This is what ignited the fire under Wiseberg's ball sack.

Right.

They had a heart on to try to figure out who this other guy was.

That's why they were so hyper fixated on this part of the Martin film and not the fact that it just showed General Walker, you know, and shots from the inside of his house, when the same film that the guy who would later be accused of shooting at Walker is on the exact same role of film, which again, in the odds of that are astronomically impossible.

Yes, so they didn't put two and two together.

Back then, they were hyper fixated about figuring out who the other person was with Oswald, which led Wiseberg to get his hands on the Martin film, which he did and straight from the source, and then he wanted to try to get this other film because it captured the exact same thing from a different angle.

I can just imagine his disappointment when he finally did see the Doyle film and were like, shit, there's nothing here.

I mean, but I don't know if there's nothing here, I mean, there are some scuffoozes there that shown.

No, of course, yes, it's not definitive.

So I think this is from Wiseberg, although this is a document, I think DOJ document referring to Wiseberg's requests asked for all quote, film and relative reports of L.

H.

Oswald's literature, distribution and arrest in New Orleans eight sixty three, taken by Jim Doyle, John Martin WDSU TV and w something on all TV photographers and by an unknown person Prince of WDSU.

Film made to show third band assistant Oswalt.

Now we don't have two, we have three, rob as further described an attacked letter.

In addition, mister Wyburg requests quote all reports on of or about an interviews with James Powell Army Intelligence.

Okay, we did go over that a few shows ago, although it's not really relevant to this.

The circumstances concerning the taking of pictures in New Orleans on August ninety sixty three by Jim Doyle, the fourteen year old son of j.

Pat Doyle of Portland, Oregon, are set out in Commission Documents six and thirty.

The film contained a few shots of Oswal at the time of his arrest, but it also contained personal pictures of the due party and like he wants it back after they're domb type of thing.

Fast forward to the HSCA.

Wiseberg is still kind of going at this here.

Wiseberg's formal request asked for film and relevant reports of L.

H.

Oswald's literature distributionis actually I might just this actually might be the same thing.

So then let me see if there's anything good here, all right.

So the next thing I have here, it's more of the same.

The next thing I have here is the ARB stuff, and I'll let you talk about that, and I'll kind of bring it up that as you talk about it.

All right.

So yeah, here's where things kind of take an interesting turn, because there's only so much we can do with an incomplete film, and allegations from both of them that they're films were edited, and we get this from Wisburg when it comes to the Martin film, and then we get to an interesting uh, let's just say phone conversation.

Fast forward to the A r r B done by David Montague, one of the uh I guess investigators for the Assassination Records and Review Board, because they're they're looking for a copy of the Doyle film because shocker, I don't believe there was one at Nara, Joe.

It's because the FBI didn't turn over their copy that they supposedly made of the Doyle film to Nara, which is a problem and makes you wonder why.

And all of that are man.

So we have here a letter to Jeremy gunn dated October the first, nineteen ninety six were smack dab in the middle of the AARRB TIS based on a previous conversation with Doyle Junior and Thomas Samlak, for which Nara provided the tip.

I called Doyle to inquire about his information regarding the assassination, his film of Oswald, and any other records that he may have for the JFK collection.

Doyle said he had a film of Oswald in New Orleans, showing him passing leaflets on castro.

He was cordial and said that he would like to donate the film to the collection, but he would first like to know more about us and what we're doing here.

He would also like to ensure safe passage for his materials to the archives.

I described the work of the review Board and describe the archival facilities for film material at the Archives.

Two.

I told him that I would explain the deed of gift process after we further discussed his potential donation the film.

In nineteen sixty three, Doyle lived in Oregon with his family.

His father, James Pat Doyle SENA, was the head of the National Electrical Contractors Association now Joe.

Just to.

Point this out here, this is the first time that we are actually hearing from Jim Doyle, the guy who actually shot the film.

For some reason, the FBI didn't talk to him, but they talked to his eleven year old sister.

Okay.

Although Doyle was fourteen at the time of the assassination, he remembers many of the details from his trip to New Orleans.

The Doyle family went sightseeing on either August twentieth or twenty second, nineteen sixty three during the convention.

Now, of course, his dates here are extremely fucked up, because we know the incident happened on August ninth, right, Okay, Yeah, Doyle remembers thinking that New Orleans was wilder than Oregon, which he'd expected.

A lot of kfuses in New Orleans, Young Jim, leave that you're dodging David Ferries all day downtown?

What?

Yeah?

That that.

Damn like the wild, wild Gay West back then.

Using an eight elemeter Bell and Howe movie camera with a hand crank and Codak and Kodak film, Doyle filmed people and scenery.

During their sight scene.

Doyle filmed a man singular passing out yellow procastro flyers and a group of approximately seven to eight adult males.

Again, we have this giant number, seven or eight adult males approaching the leafletter.

Now here's where it gets interesting, folks.

One of these adult males pulled a stiletto or long knife on the leafletter and threatened him.

No shit.

Now, this is the first time we are here of a knife being brought to a fracas.

I've never heard of that before.

You know, he approached the leaf litter began questioning the people involved, or the police approached the leaf litter and began questioning the people involved and arrested the leaf litter.

Again, a lot of singular affects here.

A crowd of approximately forty people watched on.

As the crowd dispersed, Doyle filmed the crowd for a few moments while he was walking backwards with his back to the sun.

When he returned from the convention, he mailed the film to Glendale, California, Kodak Developing Center for Processing.

Now, like I told you at the beginning of all this, on November twenty third, nineteen sixty three, the family was watching television as Jack Ruby shot Oswald at the DPD again his dates are a little fuzzy here because that didn't happen until the next day, on the twenty fourth.

But we won't we won't hold that against young Jim.

Yeah, he was fourteen.

Doyle's younger sister, Sharon.

Sharon mentioned that Oswald resembled the Leafletter who was arrested in New Orleans.

The Doyle family watched the film to verify the resemblance, and Doyle's father, who Doyle described as a quote patriotic American, called the Portland FBI office immediately to report the film.

The FBI sent two agents to the Doyle home that day to view the film.

After viewing it, they said they'd like to borrow it for further study.

Doyle believes the agents provided the family with a receipt, and after several months, Doyle's father requested that the FBI return the film, but the FBI did not return the film.

Now, this directly contradicts FBI documents that we have that say that their film was returned to them in late January of nineteen sixty four, around the same time that the Martin film was returned to John T.

Martin.

Okay, Now, did it just get lost in the mail or was young Jim just not privy to the FBI sending the film back, and his parents got it and took it, never told him, probably, but in Jim's eyes, he never got his film back.

Let's see, after several more years, Doyle retained attorney Richard Senders to attempt to retrieve the film from the FBI.

Now, this says the family didn't recover the film until sometime in the early to mid nineteen seventies.

So we have an FBI report specifically stating that they returned the film to the family at the end of January nineteen sixty four.

Yet we have the Doyles saying that they never got their film back, and they even hired an attorney, Richard Senders named the Guy, and they finally got the film back sometime in the early to mid seventies when the Triple B was just a young, slobbering, burping, farting baby.

Way in nineteen seventy four, after several more years, I'm sorry, we're there, Uh, the family recovered the film.

Yeah, okay.

However, the Doyle family viewed the film they retrieved from the FBI, and they discovered that the film was not the same as they remembered it.

The family noted the following differences.

Joe, yes, number one.

Uh Rob, just give me thirty seconds.

I'll be right back.

Just continue reading.

I'm sorry, I will thirty seconds.

Thank you.

Nobody can see you.

Number one.

The retrieved film makes Doyle's view appear to be much further away than before, which would lead you to believe that somehow some aspect ratio of the film had been changed as far as as far as formatting.

Now, we did see the same kind of thing with the John T.

Martin film.

Although the aspect recue was changed, it was kind of the opposite where the image was enlarged and it kind of cropped out other things that should have been there.

When compared to earlier versions of the Martin film, which we showed in our Martin presentation number two.

The before film, the one they originally gave to the FBI, was approximately two and a half minutes long, and the retrieved film only lasted approximately he says, approximately forty five to fifty seconds.

But as we have it here and you saw it, folks, that film is literally thirty one seconds long.

So I think less.

I think like twenty seven seconds.

At some point at least two minutes of the film had been cut out, and as we heard from Jim Doyle, even after the police showed up and they're walking away, he continued to film with his back to the son while he's walking backwards down the street, and we see none of that in the film.

Doyle's father, pissed off about the differences, later contacted the Glendale, California Processing Center.

A representative he doesn't remember who told Doyle's father that the processing center did not have the negatives because the FBI had confiscated them on or around eleven twenty three, sixty three, the same day the FBI took the out of camera original film from the Doyle family in Oregon.

Now why is this important?

Well, I would imagine Joe that when you your film away to be processed into some format that you would be able to watch on your home projector, right, Because I mean it would seem to me, at least unless they had an old ass camera right that you know, one could shoot the film and then your projector could play the film.

Right, you wouldn't need to send it away, you know what I'm saying, unless it had to be split kind of like zapruiters, you know, where it was sixteen millimeters and it had to be split down to eight.

And maybe they had a certain size projector maybe they had to get the film format into a different size.

I don't know.

I this is above my pedigree and pay grade.

But yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say.

It was at some point, you know, maybe unless you specifically requested it, you know, the place that processed your your shit, like kept your old shit and sent you what you wanted, right, so instead of sending you back some worthless negatives that you you know, you didn't need because you had a finished film that you could watch at that point.

It's interesting to note that the Kodak place in Glendale, California, that is not int Why am I back?

I don't know you froze, right, Froze.

It doesn't one of us froze.

One of us froze.

Okay, it does not matter who.

But yes, I was getting your point as to why they would send it to Glendale, California instead of Portland, Oregon.

Well maybe that was the closest processing center.

I get it.

But the FBI does have resources.

They could have called their Los Angeles division and been like, hey, get your ass over to Kodak and Glendale and get these motherfuckers negatives, right, because whatever was on this film, whatever was edited out of this film, must have been important enough for them to do that the same day they saw the film.

Yeah, that's important.

They didn't do it a month later.

They did it the same day because they showed up at the Door's house, they watched the film, they turned it over to him, and as soon as they left the Door's house, they were probably like, uh, we better call and telling them to go get the negatives for the ship because we got to clamp down right right.

Yeah.

And this is all as they're trying to like, you know, get their story straight, you know.

Yeah, a bunch of people are calling, you know, whether it's Doyle, who I think was completely random, or or John T.

Martin a little later, they all had to like make this shit fucking vibe with each other, you know what I mean.

Yeah, And it wasn't just the Doyle film that was edited.

It wasn't just the Martin film that was edited.

W DSU had footage of this apparently as well, and their footage was edited.

Right, so right, which is why Weisberg included them as well.

Yeah, and there's whatever foya or whatever is called back then.

So whoever Oswald was with this day acting as a pro castro supporter had to be significant.

It had to be somebody we know, you know.

That's what it seems to me.

If it was some random scuffuza, why why cover it up?

Yeah, nobody would care.

No, one won't care.

It would be like, like you said, like Charles Steele, you know the guy he paid like whatever, twenty five cents or whatever to help him hand out that was leafless, And they were trying to figure out who this guy was, if he's part of the fair player, if you keep a committee, if he's one of Oswald's buddies, and he's just like, No, I was hanging out with the post office and he offered me a dollar to hand this shit out.

I'm like, okay, easy money.

Yeah, and not even someone like like Thomas Beckham, Like, why even protect him from that shit?

Like he's not even an important skafooza.

I don't know, man, I don't know.

The only thing I can come up.

With, he's a lot of shit.

He never said he was handing out leafless without.

Did he say he had a coke with him after the trademark.

Well, that was two different instances.

That's at the trademark where he's handing out leafless.

It's like the sixteenth or twenty first.

I know it's not this instance.

It's not this incident.

I know it.

I'm saying, yeah, okay.

Sometime later, Doyle couldn't be more specific.

People started hounding him for access to the film on a regular basis.

Hello, Harold Wiseberg, Hellt Goden.

He believes that his name may have been mentioned in a book on the assassination, perhaps the Four Days Book.

He has been contacted relentlessly by Robert Grodin, Gary Mack, and Jim Garrison.

Doyle refused to let Mac borrow the film because he could not guarantee its return.

Now.

Of course, at this time, I think pre nineteen nineties, Gary Mack was a conspiracy researcher.

I've worked with people like Jack White and Jim Mars and other local Texas researchers.

It wasn't until he joined the Sixth Floor Museum that he kind of changed his stripes over to the dark side, if you will.

But we know.

That, of course, the sixth four Museum was trying to get their hands on every film associated with the Kennedy assassination, and to this day, Joe correct me if I'm wrong.

They do not have the rights to the Doyle film, like it is not available on their site.

It was never turned over to them.

Yeah, not to my knowledge.

No, yeah, because we had trust me.

I had to scour the darkest corners of the Internet to find the Doyle film that I showed you earlier.

And I wasn't paying six hundred dollars to remove the watermark.

Right.

It's not a film that you could just put in a YouTube.

Actually, our friend Alex Harris has it up JFK theorists.

But other than that, like you won't be able to find it.

I just want to say good night.

I guess the Double B is heading in early good not everyone.

Bless you and peace for the super chats and the memberships gifted, much appreciated brother, Thank you sir.

Yes, yes, your Friday.

Yes we'll talk to you soon.

But yeah no, no, I agree, all right.

So Doyle refused to let mac barrow the film because he couldn't guarantee its return.

He also offered to fly the film to Dallas if Mac bought his ticket, but Mac did not wish to do this, Doyle decided to visit a company named Photo Art in Portland, Oregon, which was able to transfer eight millimeter frames into still pictures.

Joe, Yeah, Doyle made at least one of all the frames particular of particular people, such as the Cubans l h O.

Here's where it gets weird.

Lho's brother, the police officer, the crowd X.

What the actual fuck is going on here?

Now we know that it wasn't John Pike right with him, and we can probably infer that it wasn't Robert Oswald with him for sure.

Right right they had they had not seen each other, as we discussed.

Or maybe I well, of course they can say that, but what are they What are the chances that Robert Oswald is leaving his job and his family to come scufoos around New Orleans with his brother Lee almost zero and carry some kind of chance fucking sign down the street?

Yeah yeah, almost like point zero zero zero zero one.

So what's interesting?

Why would he say l h O's brother inferring that it could possibly be somebody that really looked a lot like Lee Harvey Oswald Joe, Okay, what are your thoughts there?

Well, I have a lot of them, because when you think about people that resembled Lee Harvey Oswald in nineteen sixty three around that time, certain people come to mind.

Of course Larry Crayford being one.

But of course, of course we don't have Larry Craiford.

We can't ever put Larry Crayford in New Orleans and not even in that part of the country until mid October of sixty three, and that's in Dallas, So maybe take him off the books, right, Yeah, Now, what other person in your mind, Joe, that Lee Harvey Oswald is acquainted with, who would actually do something like this with Lee Harvey Oswald.

Now we know it wasn't somebody older like George de Morin Shield or somebody like that, right right, But think a little later, somebody that he would go to these right wing evince w Oh, you got.

Me there, I mean you jogged my memory.

That would be mister Michael of the Pain.

Yes, now he did in nineteen sixty three.

If Joe can pull up a picture of Michael Payne in nineteen sixty two, workout he did resemble Lee Harvey Oswald and could probably have passed for his brother.

But again, this is nineteen sixty three, okay, and a lot of folks kind of looked the same.

They kind of dressed the same, they wore their hair the same, they were clean shaven, they were skinny.

So even in your brain, you can associate some of the people who were around this guy's office a little bit when you think about the Campbell brothers, when you think about David Lewis, people like that, David Lewis kind of looked a little bit like Lee Harvey Oswald as well.

Don't know what the Campbell brothers looked like, but there was a bunch of other young dudes, if you will, around.

And.

Even carlos Kiroga could maybe have passed because he doesn't he didn't really look full on Cuban like.

He was more like a white looking Cuban a little older than Lee Harvey Oswald.

But again, I'm trying to think of people who were around Lee Harvey Oswald or could have possibly been around him at this time.

And we know that.

Kroga was for sure showing up at his house, maybe bringing in flyers, trying to join the Fair Play for Cuba committee.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that he would have marched down the fucking street with the sign just to try to infiltrate.

For me, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

But there you have Michael Payne, and there's other fighters out there that look even more so.

Lay at a glance, yep.

I have this one here, I'll make that one.

Actually I think this was his portal Texas history.

Yeah, it's walking through the Dallas police station, right.

Which would be almost exactly you know, in the fall of sixty three, right, right.

But now, of course we know Michael Payne lived in Texas, but Ruth Payne traveled to New Orleans a couple times in the summer of nineteen sixty three.

So what could have prevented Michael Payne from coming to visit Lee in New Orleans at that time in nineteen sixty three.

Yeah, because at this time you must remember that Lee is not working a job.

He's kafoozing around, right, He's doing this kind of like provocateur ship right like later on in September, after he moves back to Dallas.

Well after that, you know you have these things where you know he was supposedly with Michael Payne at the General Walker's speech and a CLU speech, the whole m at like Stevenson thing, you know, who knows, Yeah, you know, Michael, Michael Payne to me comes across as somebody who would get off on doing dumb ship like this, kind of like Lee would, you know, being a provocateur and then going you know, after the fact, you know, sitting around laughing about it.

You know, he was a Trotsky, right, which is like I don't even know like how to describe it really, but from communists, Yeah, it's like a weird in between.

And I always thought that Ruth was sent to keep an eye on Marina and Michael was sent to keep an eye or given the task of keeping an eye on Lee, and maybe that's why they were separated.

Of course, they'd been separating back and forth for months and maybe a year at this point, right towards like the end of sixty two, and de Morgil talks about that, but I see it as not far off, you know what I mean.

And they were definitely at that Walker meeting that's pretty accepted like within the community.

I think it was the day before the ad list Evenson thing or the day after one of.

Those two uh yeah, turn turn brings up a good point.

Maybe it was Thornley again, another guy that looked like Oswald that we know was in New Orleans.

Definitely knew him.

He definitely would do some dumb ship like this.

You know, he's about half a fucking nutball.

Uh yeah, good call to hering.

Yeah, good god, that's a good one.

I mean Thornley looked kind of I.

Don't think Fairy could pass for Ordine Andrews could pass for Lee Harvey, Oswald's brother.

But you know, no, no, but it gets weirder.

So not only do we have that, it gets weirder.

So again, let me reiterate, Doyle made at least one of all the frames particular people such as the Cubans, l h O.

L h O's brother, the police officer, the crowd, etc.

Now, after Doyle sent the stills to Gary Mack and others, he received information from them regarding some of the people seen within the film.

And this is the course coming from the eagle eyed researchers who were pouring over these stills with monocle in hand.

Doyle was told and he will look for the document are e his source that the person who approached Oswald with the knife or stiletto was a CIA operative, Joe interesting, and that several people in the crowd were FBI agents.

He doesn't remember the source, but he had heard that Groden obtained a copy of the film from the FBI for thirty bucks, and that Groden wrote about the film in one of his books without Doyle's permission.

Shocker, yes, And who knows where Groden got his copy of the Doyle film, which, of again we can't find who Goroden can't find to this day.

So apparently whoever had the knife was identified as a CIA operative, a Cuban CIA operative, because that's what group of seven or eight Cubans rolled up on Oswald.

Right, So who do we know, Joe It we're CIA operatives in New Orleans.

And who happened to be at the courthouse and captured on film at the courthouse the next day when Lee Oswald shows up in court.

Okay, well, uh m hm, we definitely have Carlos Brignier, of course is the obvious one.

Well, I wouldn't say he's a CIA Okay, Okay, we have a million.

Then we have Arnesto Rodriguez, Ernesto, his brother, Emilio, his father.

Yes, and Frank Bartz Yes, I got it.

Yeah, Oh wow, good jobs, lucky guess.

So one of them scaffoz is one of them four actually pulled a knife, right.

I never heard of this before before research this episode.

So now this kind of of all makes sense.

If you add all these kuffuzes together, then you're up to seven or eight cubans.

How many scuffs?

How many scuffooses make up a Cuban?

You got to bring a crew of three and you got the CIA operative crew of four.

How many scaffuses make up a Cuban?

One?

They're one for one.

I know it was kind of a trick joke question, but yes.

So and then you know, why else would these guys be at the courthouse if they weren't arrested as well?

You see what I'm saying.

They just didn't show up to take in the sites, you know what I mean.

So things are kind of falling into place with a narrative, especially if you throw in the fact that also, uh where were we Yes, several people in the crowd were FBI agents.

Mm hmm.

These were supposedly identified by eagle eyed researchers, you know, with their with their monocles on, right, which.

Is what Wiseberg and uh and Shorner tried to identify.

Like the guy like, there's a bunch of people in these white hats, right, they're like these white like circle hats.

Kind of I don't know how to explain it.

But maybe he knew it, and maybe why Lee asked to talk to to the FBI, to somebody, yeah you see what I'm saying.

Yeah, I mean, your balls get a lot more bigger, right, if you're doing something at the behest or on behalf of the FBI, you know, if you're an FBI informant and you're doing this to kind of guard information, they're like, don't worry, dude, we got you back.

We're watching.

We ain't gonna let it happen to you.

Which is why he's like, hey, oh you got a knife, come on, hit me, Carlos, canna stab me.

You know, he's talking shit because he knows nothing's gonna happen because the fucking cops are right there and the FBI is right fucking there too.

But once the New Orleans PD arrests him, the FBI kind of has to sink back into the shrubbery like Homer Simpson, and then maybe Oswald's sitting in jail like, man, fuck this, I'm doing this for the I want to talk to somebody from the FBI, please, Right.

He gets fed up and has to request about that.

And they come in and talk to him and say, look, dude, uh, you know, we'll go through all the formality bullshit and this and that, but you know you're just gonna have to take this one.

Take this for the team.

Yeah, this is not a big serious offense, you know, just whatever, go through the motions, get out of it, and we'll figure it out after that.

I don't know.

I'm just spitballing here right now.

On the thirtieth anniversary of the assassination, that would be nineteen and ninety three.

Joseph Okay, one year before this letter, in contact with Doyle by the ARB.

Your boy was seven years old.

I canna say how old I was, Doyle.

Let the BBC that's the Big Black Cocks, or the British Broadcast in conjunction with PBS that's the public or Pubic Broadcasting System, borrow a v HS tape copy for the special.

Now, for some reason, Doyle didn't actually give him a copy of the film itself.

At some point he had had it transferred or copies transferred to VHS, and this is what he sent to BBC and PBS because in the film, I know the PBS version, you know, like who was Lee, Harvey Oswald or whatever?

That that that that special that they did, they included footage of the Martin film, right.

But Doyle again took the film to Photo Art, but they were unable to transfer it to broadcast quality VHS tape.

That is why the Doyle film does not appear in those specials.

HM.

I find that hard to believe, because again from the stills that we see in the actual movie, to me, that was pretty damn decent quality.

But maybe once you transferred to VHS it turns into dodo.

I don't know, I don't know now.

Doyle then goes to say that he trusted a man named John, doesn't remember his last name, who worked at Photo Art, and he allowed John to carry the actual film to Seattle, Washington for transfer to a proper quality broadcast ready tape.

The production company compensated Doyle and John for their efforts.

The film was copyrighted in Doyle's name.

The film is now stored in a safe deposit box at an Oregon bank, and Doyle has the following items in the safe deposit box.

Number one Joe the origine, well not the original, but the eight millimeter film returned to him by the FBI depicting the events or some of the events that he filmed in August of nineteen sixty three.

And he has left approximately three or four of the still photos made at Photo Art.

Now, remember he apparently got stills made of each of the frames of the film that he got back, so thirty seconds worth of film.

That's a lot of stills for every stream, and multiples of those as he sent those out to researchers.

So he only has three or four still photos left that were made at Photo Art.

Number three documentation about researchers who had contacted him and who he had given stills two.

Number four documentation about all the FBI contacts with them, and the film that was collected by his attorney in pursuits to get his film back from the FBI in the nineteen seventies.

Was that like Senders?

That was that guy Senders?

Yeah?

Okay, After I explained the deed of gift protruder off your MI.

After I explained the deed of gift procedures, Doyle agreed to deed all of his material to the JFK Collection so that it will be properly preserved for history.

However, Doyle wants to ensure that the film will really make it to Washington, d C.

Given his earlier negative experiences with the film, so he's not even trusting the ARB at this point.

He's like, I don't trust none of you government motherfuckers.

Right, you've done fucking my film.

You give me back some bullshit, right, you cut a bunch of stuff out of it.

You know, now you want it again, right, he says.

I offered to pick it up from his house, and I told him I would check on some possibilities for transfer of the film and would contact him in about a week so he would have time to review the information on the review board that I'm sending him.

I suggested that in the interest of time, it might be your best to arrange for a transfer now using an official receipt from Washington, and then proceed with execution of a deed of gift, which may take several months, and Doyle seemed amenable to this idea.

I reviewed the above information with him and thanked him for his time.

Recommendations.

I recommend that we asked Doyle to provide a copy of his videotape of the film and copies of some of its documentation to determine whether a trip to his home is warranted or not, and then to give some personal information here Joe like my dressed in his phone number.

Yes, and the fact that he owns a pet store named C.

B Tropical, which.

I called earlier today.

Yes, and I did cut that off the info after Doll siggers info.

Yeah.

Now, I tracked down some things such as where Doyle was living in nineteen ninety four, okay at the time of this banter back and forth with the A R R B.

And this is his house, very modest, rancher to car garage, right, got a nice Toyota in the of course, that's more recent.

This is this was taken in July of this year.

I that Jewell's nice Toyota in nineteen ninety four.

But the house, yes, the house is the same ish.

Yeah, I'm sure it's been fixed up.

I mean the yard looks nice and roof you're paining job on the side.

You know, probably was a rundown shithole in nineteen ninety four, I would assume.

But I'm just guessing here.

I don't know I'm talking out of me ours here, But uh so, Joe, I got into my time, my time, Sheeman DeLorean, and I went back to nineteen ninety four, the year nineteen ninety four in Portland, Oregon, and I found the CB Tropical Aquarium.

Oh wow, this is its address as it was given in nineteen ninety four, So this is what it looked like.

And the goddamn mailman truck is in the fucking way.

But fucking usps.

Yeah, you can tell just by looking at the sign that this place has been here a while.

Okay, Now I went perusing and I found this on their website.

Founded in nineteen seventy two.

Okay, CB's Tropical Aquarium has been a Portland staple for generations.

Travis joined the team in nineteen ninety four and took over as owner several years later.

Today, I wonder if that's why I talked to today.

We specialize in custom and exotic aquariums that help bring all your aquatic dreams to life.

Joe, I have many aquatic dreams.

So, oh you have.

In nineteen ninety four, at some point after this AARRB interaction, you have Doyle selling the business.

At some point after this, Travis came on the future owner would come on to work with them.

The same year he talked to the ARB nineteen ninety four.

No, I'm sorry, he talked to him in nineteen ninety six, So Travis had been working at the CB Tropical Store for two years at the time.

Doyle was talking to the ARARB in ninety six, and they listed that as his business still in nineteen ninety six.

So Travis didn't take over until sometime after nineteen ninety six, is what I'm trying to say.

But it had been in the Doyle family since nineteen seventy two.

So if you do some quick math, roughly for twenty five years, right, Jim Doyle, young smooth, fourteen year old Jim Doyle at some point owned the c B Tropical Aquarium Shop until he gave it over or put in a trust or whatever you want to call it to Travis, who still to this day runs it.

And I'll show you travising here in just the second Joe Okay.

Now recently, as of this year, Joe, it's official they moved locations.

Okay, they're no longer where they were for the past fifty some years.

They moved and their grand opening was actually this year on June twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, to their new digs, Joe, which looks like this.

Mhmm.

This is their new digs.

They got new hours.

Now you can kind of see Joe.

Now.

I know Portland is or can be a little bit of a shithole.

So you can see the security gates in front of the business that they can close at night to keep out the riff raft.

I thank you pointing that out.

Yes, they got the security gates.

Yes, the black gates on the sides of the of the painting, if you will.

You know, there's there's so much rampant drug use and homelessness and liberal skuffoos are going on in Portland, Oregon.

They got to put up a fucking security gate right right now.

I read some of the reviews for Cebe Trap, and they're out there, but they said at one point, uh, one of the reviews said, you know, the owner is very nice, and I said, I did see him lose his shit one time though, when the homeless people kept coming in there asking for water, and apparently he had enough of that bullshit one day and just started yelling at the homeless people to get out of his store.

Now, I mean, homeless people usually don't buy fish.

You got any fish water you don't need I'll drink that.

I don't fuck.

Now here is mister Travis.

I wonder if that's the guy I talked to today.

I feel like it might have been.

He was like, why are you calling?

And I'm like, well, this isn't gonna sound pretty weird.

But well, you know, before I figured out that this was Travis and not Jim Doyle, right, But I came across this picture and if you look up on the shelf behind his head, Joe, you can see two pictures like school pictures of some young kids on his.

Left side, on the left side of his head looking at the picture, yeah yeah, And I was like, one in black and one in a little lighter like under like to the left of those two.

Whatever, maybe like the next generation of the Doyle family or his grandkids or something.

But ultimately the Doyle family, Uh, Jim Doyle and apparently his sister Sharon, it never existed.

According to Travis, are out of the picture when it comes to C B Tropical, which is actually still in business to this very day.

Now, it sucks that Travis didn't know more or wouldn't tell you more about the Doyle family right, maybe have a phone number, or did he even know if Jim's still alive?

So I said, do you know, is there a mister or missus Doyle I can talk to?

And he goes, they don't owe this establishment anymore or something like that.

And I tried and he goes, well, I was like, did they own it?

And he goes, well, wasn't trust And it was kind of like he he was very nice to me.

He wasn't not nice, but he wasn't like one hundred percent forthcoming either.

I feel, I don't know, I made a phone call.

You should have just called up and asked for Jim, right, and he see what he said and then be like, look, you know, I grew up in Portland.

I used to go there all the time, the teenage here and buy fish off Jim and blah blah blah, and really butted him up and see if he'd open up to you a little bit but you're still hunting your investigatory skills.

No, no, no no.

I came across a post on the Education Forum that said Jim Doyle has since passed away, and that lines up for me if Travis is when I talk to you and he says it's a trust, that lines up for me.

I don't know, But.

Who the fuck knows anymore?

You know?

Yeah, I don't know, but it's an interesting story with some interesting twists and turns and fascinating story, weird things you've never heard of before when it comes to the story, And again, where's all the truth in this?

Don't know, but there definitely seems to be some fuckery abound when it comes to these FBI takeing edited films of this event.

There has to be a reason why, right right, And if you take into consideration that eight seven or eight cubans got cut down to three and a knife taken out of the equation, and the fact that two demonstrators got cut down to one, there has to be a reason for it, right there.

Yeah, is your red flag and possibly the key to opening this whole thing up to try to figure out what the fuck was happening in New Orleans in the summer of sixty three with Lee Oswald.

Obviously he had somebody that he was working with, Yeah, that they didn't want you to know about.

Yeah.

Yeah, the question is who is it?

I mean, God, could you imagine if it was Michael Payne?

Could you imagine that Joe?

What the repercussions of that would be?

That would be nuts?

Or if if it was you know, any other you know, half dozen scuffuses, that would have created a huge problem if if a rest reports with uh Lee and that guy came out, you know what I mean, like.

Specifically called this guy la Joe's brother.

That is wild to me.

Yeah, you have to think they looked somewhat alike or act alike or something to make that comparison.

Yeah, And.

I mean listen, like we have talked about the John T.

Martin film and how it was mess messed with.

We've shown stills and the Walker thing and all that we've gone over that we've talked about this.

They're hiding something.

I don't know what it is, but they're hiding something.

They're definitely something, Yes.

And it's probably an asset and or agent ah screwing with Lee late?

Was it har and Lee together?

Could have been Harvey and his brother Lee.

They looked alike Rob according to people.

I mean, who knows what the hell is going on here?

But like really who knows?

But all I know is that something more is going on for sure.

Yeah, all right, folks, we did it again.

We delivered, yes the last second, something amazing.

Yeah, something informative, something entertaining.

And as we always do, we appreciate each every one of you showing up and showing out in the comments section.

You guys rock.

Thank you everybody for the super chats and support and the memberships.

Man, yeah, I know, yeah, man.

I mean we try to like come up with some good topics and this one is kind of one that's up our alley and one that made me kind of go back and forth a bunch of times.

We've had this in our back pocket for a little while, just full transparency, because we were gonna maybe do something at Lancer at some point about this, and then they went to the dark side and we said negative ghostwriter, And you know, it's kind of it's kind of big for just a normal episode of the Lungomen podcast, but it's it would have if we would have went as deep as we possibly could have have we been had enough time to do this correctly?

It definitely and we have much more information about this.

Yeah, you know, it could have definitely been something like a conference presentation on its own for sure.

I mean, Joe, we're two hours into it now.

Could you imagine whittling this son of a bitch down to an hour or fifty five minutes?

And you know, yeah, I mean it's just so much information to take in, so much crazy stuff that needs to be tracked down and verified and see what's going on.

But I think we pulled it off.

Joe, I think so.

I think so when we did do it with like about twenty four hours of notice, and we did have this in our back pocket, and there could be a part two of this.

I mean it's not like over we have some more leaves.

We're kind of tragging down with this film.

But uh, this very open ended, uh yeah, subject that can definitely be tracked down some more.

Like our folks in Oregon High Colleen, you know, maybe you could show up at see be tropical and putting next to button on your.

Blouse that yeah, talk to Travis there and.

He was talking out you know what I'm saying, Like that would be gated.

Hey, that's how a lot of research was done, you know, back in the day.

And our secret weapon in there.

Here's the rocket queen getting there.

Yeah, for sure.

James Smith said the New Orleans Rosetta Stone, the fractae I think he's talking about.

But yeah, I agree, it's it's up there.

Yeah, something something that's not right about it.

Yeah, especially when you have all these CIA affiliated Cubans at the courthouse, right, and again that gets the Cuban count up to seven from the three that we're told, right, And if we're told about the three, then they really don't matter because they're nobody's they're just affiliated with the dre right, not ci A right.

But when you have actual CIA affiliated Cubans, you might want to keep that on the download a little bit, right, yes, and not on Oswald on a knife on the guy.

Man.

That knife thing was.

I think the most surprising thing I learned in this episode was that there's a witness test morning that there was a knife a stiletto involved on Mall Street.

That's crazy, Scott.

Another great show with totally original research.

We try maybe not completely original, but we try to put our own uh.

Yeah, yeah, we try to go the extra mile or maybe a quarter mile anyway, Yeah, thank you.

You can't go any more deeper than calling a fish store owner in Oregon, and yes.

Spend our secret weapon Colleen in there with the Yeah.

Yeah, I guess we could go a little deeper, which was the original plan.

Yes, but I did try doing that today and I was like, this is gonna sound weird, but I'm a JFK researcher.

And He's like, oh, okay, but I didn't.

Over was Travis.

That was funny.

Talk about smelling fishy, Scott, you got that right.

This that is common of the night.

Scott wins it again, as he usually does.

Brobo Scott, Robo, sir, Yeah, another amazing fish story from the incoming podcast.

Man, alrighte, grab the goddamn dog.

Grab your fish.

She knows I'm like gonna grab her.

Ruby, Come here, Ruby, Ruby.

Grab Dino by the balls and drag him in here.

Oh give me a second.

Alright, folks, we've done it again.

We're here.

Oh where we're in New Orleans again.

It's Friday night, still early if you want to party a little bit there.

See you.

Thanks for hanging out with us, Thanks for learning with us.

Thanks for researching with us.

We hope you learned something for it, just as more confusion to the whole story.

But before we do, good night, Ruby.

Looks.

It's talk.

We have the in laws in this week.

Ruby, guys, we'll see you on We're seeing the review before we see on Wednesday, so stay tuned for that until then.

Oh and uh, we're recording quick hits in the morning legedly.

I'm looking at for that too, sometime this weekend.

To drop.

Very nice.

Pah pah pah, Papa fun one peace out.