Speaker 2 (00:01.998)

If you feel powerless or anxious when porn cravings and urges hit you, I have a solution that can end these feelings. And it's one I've already used with men all over the world who are experiencing confidence in the face of cravings. They are actually using cravings to strengthen their recovery. If you would have told me this during the years I was addicted to porn, I would have told you that you were crazy.

I felt scared of my cravings, I hated the feeling of lacking self-control. I wanted to do anything I could to get rid of them. Urges for porn stole my focus, ruined my productivity, hurt my marriage, and they made me feel like a bad person. Here's a truth I wish I would have known. Cravings are not a sign that you're weak or broken. They're your brain's way of trying to process

deeper underlying emotions. And when you know how to process these emotions effectively, they actually become fuel for self-understanding and sobriety. In other words, you can turn cravings from enemies to allies. And this is all done using what I call the RAIL method, which we'll be covering today. This episode is taken from the Castamonia podcast. I was interviewed by Chris Arkinel, a friend in the same space

who's doing a stellar job on his show. In the episode, I reveal the basic framework and technique of the RAIL method, a step-by-step process to turn cravings into fuel for recovery. We also discuss how to relate to your inner critic and how to love the addict part of you so it can begin to take a helpful role in your life rather than a destructive one. If you like what you hear, take action.

You can begin practicing the RAIL method every day by checking out my new online course, The RAIL Method, which you can find at nomordesire.com slash RAIL. It comes with four lessons that teach you exactly how to do RAIL and five guided practices, both written and audio, to implement the RAIL method in your day-to-day life. You can role play what to do in cravings. You can work through current cravings.

Speaker 2 (02:29.026)

and it helps you face these cravings with confidence. I'll put a link for it in the show notes. With that, here's the episode with myself and Chris Arkinon.

Speaker 1 (02:46.83)

So Jake, welcome to the podcast. Glad you're on,

Man, Chris, what an introduction. You told me before this, say, I get anything wrong, just let me know. Well, that's better than I could have done. I appreciate it.

That's awesome. And why I'm really happy to have you on and was introduced to you by Dan Johnson, mutual friend. Yep. And gonna have Dan back soon, hopefully on the podcast. And when we talked and just for the first time briefly, just really connected with you and kind of what you're about. And it's, very unique in a way. I mean, there's a lot of great ministries out there. There's a lot of great programs. And I think, you know,

I always, mean, Mark Dennison should get like, I should get paid every time I say his name because one of things he said is the best program that you can be a part of is the one that works for you. Right? Like that's the go to the group that works for you and be a part of that. And so, so impressed with what you're doing. And so why don't we just pause there and just give me a snapshot of your ministry and kind of what no more desire looks like and maybe where it came from.

Yeah, yeah, sure. So No More Desire, I work with men one-on-one and essentially it is a step-by-step program to help men build the skills of a recovery mindset and a recovery lifestyle. So I take a pretty heavily anchored psychological approach and also integrating things of nutrition and exercise and things in your relationships and things about the neuroscience of recovery. So how do I help?

Speaker 2 (04:25.09)

the dopamine levels in my brain, et cetera, when it comes to neurotransmitters, kind of bringing all these together under this umbrella or what I would say is a foundation of spirituality and spiritual practice. And so for me, that's to a broad audience. I'm Christian myself and I do Christ-centered work in my own recovery, but essentially approaching people where they're at. I talk about higher self, I talk about higher power and just however that can

that can bring that message to people. So for me, working one-on-one with men, one of the greatest things that I do or one of the things that I focus the most upon is emotional mindfulness. One of the things that we struggle with the most when we struggle with addiction is how to tolerate and regulate painful emotion. We don't know, we aren't taught how to do that in an effective way.

we're taught to either escape painful emotion or to control painful emotion. And with painful emotion, we're talking anger, we're talking fear, shame, grief. We're also talking about things like perfectionism or things like, of course, cravings, right, that we suffer. And so many of us don't know what to do with the craving. It's like, okay, I guess I fight it or I try to ignore it or I distract myself from it. And I actually teach men to

dive straight into it, which is completely counterintuitive for a lot of us and what that actually means. And so I use emotional mindfulness meditation and facilitate that in sessions and to great parts work and I integrate embodiment for doing that to essentially teach men when you're so for instance, if your wife comes to you and she's angry, right? She's filled with rage because you did something that upset her. How to actually open up space and feel

her emotion of anger and how to tolerate, regulate, understand it and understand your emotion so that you can then approach her in a way of acceptance, compassion, understanding, and to be able to do that with any painful emotion.

Speaker 1 (06:35.394)

Yeah, I love it. So you, a lot of what you emphasize is kind of the addict part of the brain, not someone who truly, is, but rather like it's not being who they truly are, but rather it's part of like trying to cope with the underlying pain. So how would you explain to someone who's just getting sober, why treating this part with compassion is, more effective than suppression?

Yeah, this is one that I am really passionate for Chris and this can be hard for a lot of us to understand because we really hate our addictions. We really hate that part of us that has engaged with the addiction and essentially ruined our lives. And what I suggest and I'm taking this from

IFS essentially, internal family systems, which is this very dis- deeply compassionate approach to psychology and teaches people, know, fundamentally you have to understand first a new way of looking at the mind. When we say addict part, what does that mean? A vast majority of us up until the last decade or so, more and more people are learning about this, but a vast majority of us perceive the mind as one unit, right?

I am me, I am my mind. There's one me, one brain, one personality. And parts work or internal family systems actually takes that assumption and tosses it out and replaces it with a new one, which is really strange and can sound so odd for people at first until they start to experience it. And it's actually quite incredible how fast people can intuitively start to get it. But it's essentially that you are made up of parts.

these little sub-personalities that make up your personality. And you can actually dialogue with, get to know, get to understand, feel compassion for, empathize with these parts of you. And central to that philosophy is the higher self, or it's just called self with a capital S in IFS. But for me, I believe it to be the light of God that you carry, the spark of God or the God image or...

Speaker 2 (08:52.984)

this little piece of the light of Christ that you carry inside you that knows truth and if that love is unconditionally. And that that aspect of you is to lead out and show compassion for these parts of you. And so again, that can get for some people that's, you know, little woo woo, little, you know, existential, spiritualism, et cetera, but very powerful in practice. And I think that's what I want to be understood is

It's not so much, know, is this the way it works? Isn't this the way it works? Is it helpful? Does it lead to sobriety? Does it help people live better? And it does. It's really quite incredible. So when it comes to this addict part of you, how do you understand it? And parts work teaches that there are protector parts of you, some that try to control, others that try to escape in order to deal with pain. Right? So when I feel fear,

when I feel shame, when I feel grief or sadness, when I feel loneliness, I have protector parts of me that will try to solve that situation using control. In other words, anger or being perfect, putting on a mask, you know, I'm not going to show my feelings, I'm going to shut down, not let anybody see me or escape. So this would a lot of times be the addictive kind of behaviors, right? Porn, sex, drugs, alcohol.

food, shopping, you name it, right? We can numb out with it or we can seek it as an escape. I apologize if you can hear my son screaming in the background. Hopefully there's... There you go. I was like, I hope you can edit it afterwards. Do you like this is raw? Okay.

Yeah, we're all good. all good. It's family show.

Speaker 2 (10:37.678)

That's I love it. So, so essentially, when I come to understand these parts and I've had some very significant experiences personally with this, very significant experiences with clients and teaching them this and helping facilitate them and getting to know these parts, these parts of you that try to use escape or control to try to manage your emotions, they've been around for you for a long, long time. Like since you were really young, you took on, if you want to use another framework,

coping mechanisms, right, to deal with pain. And this started early in childhood. And so when you actually get to know these parts and you have this inner dialogue and this understanding, you get to see, like for me, for instance, the addict part of me, if you will, showed up, I believe, when I was four years old. And it started when I moved from California to Utah and my whole family was really upset.

My dad was, he's in this field, so he was actually addicted to porn. My mom was going through betrayal trauma. It was extremely difficult. I didn't know any of that as a four-year-old, but I definitely felt the stress. I felt the overwhelm of my siblings and my parents. And so what did I do? Right? I'm a little kid. I don't know how to like understand or even manage any of this. I went to food. I went to video games. These are my comfort spaces.

And so this part of me is like, hey, I have a place of comfort for you to go to or a place of stimulation, escape. This will fix your problem. This will help you feel better. Right now, unfortunately, when these parts of us do this, they actually cause the problem they're trying to fix. That part of your mind doesn't know that, right? Because especially when you're really young, you can't logic that out. This is just, this is built into you, this mechanism.

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:27.0)

So it causes the problem it's trying to fix, but it's genuinely trying to help you out. And when you get to see these parts and see them with compassion, see the intention underneath to actually come to love that part, it's amazing this concept of love that goes back, you know, as far as we know, right? All the way back to God and toward to the foundation of our world, right? Love is this healing balm, it's this powerful agent for transformation.

When I bring love to these parts of me and I bring them acceptance and compassion, and I see the intent behind this part of me that that pointed me to addiction, I get to know it and understand its perspective. I can actually begin to love that part and that part can actually begin to shift and change into something actually very helpful. Yeah. Because fundamentally, this is a part of you likely that it could play a few different roles in your life, but a lot of times it's part of you that likes to have fun.

Nice lot loose.

A good time, right? Excitement, something new, novelty, or it could be a comforter for you, right? It must bring you comfort. Could be, there's a few things it could be, but if you can actually help that part transform and start to understand it, you can start to utilize it in a good way in your life. It's not something you need to crush or destroy or, you know, kill it. Like I said, constantly kill it, destroy the outer part of you. You can't, it can be transformed into something, something good.

Let me ask you this. from what I'm hearing and kind of what I've read about you and you're on your website, you teach that combining this emotional mindfulness, embodiment, self-compassion with that parts work, Like taking it and embracing all of those things. What's a simple daily practice look like for someone who is wanting, I'll call it two.

Speaker 1 (14:21.401)

or maybe you called it, maybe I'm stealing it from you, but to befriend their addict heart instead of squashing it.

I love that. I'm glad you're asking that. So I call this RAIL. It is an acronym. I would call it a four-step process. It's really five and I'll explain that. So the R in RAIL is to recognize protectors. So when you have pain come up in your life, so let's say it's anger or let's say it's cravings. So we'll actually turn it to cravings because that is our main audience here.

So if a craving for pornography comes up, you want to recognize the protectors who are involved. So you do what's completely counterintuitive. You do exactly the opposite of what you might think, which is you're going to actually, and there's a mindfulness concept again, you turn your full attention immediately to the part of you that's feeding you the cravings. So not to fixate on the fantasy or fixate on the, you know,

whatever your mind's coming up with, but the party that's feeding you the cravings. And as you turn your full attention there, you turn your attention inward into the body and open up space for the emotion there. And there's probably a lot of tension in that moment. Cause it's not just, it's not just sexual arousal. That's what we often think it is. There's a lot of things that come with those cravings you're experiencing.

So as you turn your attention inward and open up space in the body, and this gets really hard for some people because they're like, what does that even mean? It's a practice. You do it over time, opening up space for the emotion in your core. You can get that over time as you practice. And then you're actually going to, you're going to pull back to witness this part in you. So again, going to like kind of that Eastern, like Buddhist or Taoist, you know, kind of Eastern framework of mindfulness, you witness this emotion.

Speaker 2 (16:20.984)

There's craving here. There's a desire to escape or desire to find comfort or to numb out. And then you're actually going to welcome this part in. Again, this sounds so counterintuitive, but you're going to welcome it in for it to sit down with you. And you're just going to feel with it. You're going to empathize with it. Okay. You're here. Tell me why you're here. And you don't try to think of that. You don't try to figure it out or solve it. That's immediately what we try to do. You're just going to feel with it and turn your attention to it.

And you're probably going to hear this part say, oh man, like I really want this and I really want that and this sounds really good. And you know, it's this kind of this part that wants to indulge and be present and, know, go crazy and have an exciting experience. Or maybe for you, it's something more like a part of you that's like, I just really want to find comfort. I just really want to feel good. I just, I just really want to relax. Or perhaps it's a party that's more like a kind of like

fantasy like a dreamer, you know, and it's just like, I just want to like escape into this like whole fantasy land and imagination, right? It depends on you and your personality, how you are. So you're to hear that for a bit and you're going to use this as a trailhead. And essentially, as you hear this party that wants to escape or find comfort, et cetera, there's going to be another part of you of equal and opposite reaction to this part. It's guaranteed.

And you may not see it, but it's there. Maybe it takes a little while to get in touch with, but there's another part that's playing the control or that judgment, the one that is judging you for that feeling. And it's saying, no way are you going to do this? Are you crazy? Why are you thinking about this right now? You must be out of your mind. Are you a bad person? Why are you doing this? Why are you even thinking of any of this? So you're going to invite that part in.

You're gonna welcome it in to sit with and feel with it. So you feel with that part. So those are kind of, and there may be multiple parts there, but that's kind of the basic concept of recognized protectors. So that can be done in a simple sense. part of me wants me to escape. yeah, there's part of me that's judging me too. Or it can be done more deeply, right? It's kind of, I've just described to really be with it for a bit. Then you're gonna do again another thing that sounds completely counterintuitive.

Speaker 2 (18:39.832)

And I know this is fairly long, hopefully this is helpful for people. So the next thing that's counterintuitive in RAIL is A, which is appreciate protectors. You're going to do the thing that you would never think to do, which is to actually appreciate those parts. You got an inner, you have an inner critic, which we'll talk a little bit more about in the episode, but

You have this inner critic who's like, you shouldn't be thinking about this stuff. You shouldn't be obsessing about sexual things. Get this out of your mind. Trying to control it. It's judging you for it. This party wants you to be a better person. Wants to help you, you know, be good, be a productive member of society, show up for your family, be a good husband, be a good father. This is a good part of you. You're also going to appreciate the very part that you think you need to hate, which is that...

part that wants to act out with the addiction. say, okay, this part of me is trying to bring me comfort or, you know, it's trying, I appreciate, you literally talk to the part. You say, I appreciate you're trying to bring me comfort or I appreciate you're trying to bring me like excitement and you want me have fun. You want me to have a good experience. want me to experience pleasure. There's nothing bad about fun or excitement or pleasure, right? These are inherently other core positive things. So you appreciate those parts and then you're going to ask these parts, okay, you've shown up. What are you here to protect?

And underneath that, you're going to find I, which is insecurities. And a lot of us here in security, we, there's a lot of connotation behind that word, essentially just whatever it is, it's lacking security, right? Insecure. I don't feel secure. So this is always going to be one of three things. And this is said in a lot of areas, fear, shame, or grief. Fear, shame, or grief. That's what you're going to find. What am I afraid of? How am I feeling inadequate or bad? Like I'm a bad person.

Or what am I sad about? There's some nature of that, right? Or it could be a painful sensation, like I'm tired or I'm hungry, right? It also be that. And so you get present with that and you invite that part in, welcome it in to sit with it and feel with it. Okay, be with that for a while. And then the I I've just mentioned in securities is a double I. So the next is intentions. And so you actually see underneath that, if you're afraid, like let's say,

Speaker 2 (21:00.14)

You know, let's take shame for instance. I feel like I'm not showing up well as a father right now. I just feel inadequate. I don't know what to do with my kids. Like I don't even know like how to be a good dad. What are you inherently seeing there? That's actually a reflection of the goodness that's inside of you. This is where love comes in. You want to recognize underneath all parts of you that there's there's goodness at the core. And it's, want to be a good dad. I want to show up well for my kids. I want to, you know,

I want to be amazing. Like I really want to serve and love people. You can do the same, the same thing with anger. You can do with a lot of things and you'll find at the core, these good motives, this, I would say the love in that part that's underneath it all. And that enables you to feel love for it, if you will. And then the last letter is L, which is leadership. And so this doesn't, so it's leadership and love. So if you just stay there in that.

place of love for these parts, the protectors. This party is feeling fear, or grief, right? And just be in that space and then say, okay, what have I, what have I seen from this? Like maybe you put yourself in a really vulnerable situation where you're up way too late, or maybe you worked way too many hours when you should have taken a break. You're stressed out. You come out with probably some kind of truth. If you don't, that's fine. This is actually feeling these emotions is key. That's the most crucial part.

And so see what you come out with and it'll often come naturally of like what the message is there for you. and, and, and so that's the process. And by the way, this is a tiered system. So you don't have to walk this whole thing. You could just do one step, which would be like recognized protectors. I feel angry. I feel pissed off right now. There's a part of me that's ticked off or okay, I'm experiencing cravings right now and just recognizing and being present with that. Just that.

can actually help separate and give you a little bit of space between you and the painful feeling.

Speaker 1 (23:01.816)

Yeah. In a lot of ways, mean, like it's, now I'm going to oversimplify a really great program, it's bringing those things to light, right? It's bringing them to the light and just identifying that they're real, they exist, and I don't have to suppress them, right? Like it's okay to embrace those things. And I think that's kind of, I mean, would you say this is still part of that how to love the addict part or is that moving into how to relate to the inner critic?

I'd love to talk more about that for sure in a more specific sense, but yes, it's both. You can use it for any painful emotion, which is kind of the magic of it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's okay. Super cool.

Hey, Jake Kastleman here. I want to tell you about the upcoming Porn Resilient event with the good and the free, where I will be interviewing with Taylor Chambers. We go in depth on the RAIL method, my new course in a way I never have on this show. We spend about an hour together discussing the principles and process of the RAIL method and real life applications for using it. In addition,

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during early bird pricing. That's up until October 12th. Taylor and his team have brought us together to provide something truly special to our audiences. If there were ever a time to invest in your recovery, I would say that it's now. If you want to take advantage of this limited time deal, head to the show notes of this episode.

where you will find a link entitled Porn Resilient Online Event, where you can register and get a free ticket to attend the online event that is October 13th through October 16th, 2025. You will also find a link entitled All Access Implementation Bundle, where you can purchase the bundle of 20 experts, courses, and resources.

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So check it out while you can. Please use the links that I have provided in the show notes, as those are my affiliate links. And by clicking them, you are supporting my family, my show. It's a favor to me, and I appreciate it. So one more time, those links are the Porn Resilient Online Event to get the free ticket, and the All Access Implementation Bundle if you decide that you would like to get 20 experts, courses, and resources. Thank you so much, my friend. Back to the episode.

Speaker 1 (26:24.078)

One of things that you wrote to me and you sent this just kind of a synopsis of this how to relate to the endocrinic is you said that many of us men don't know how to relate to our fierce aggressive masculinity, especially those of us who are Christian. We're taught that anger is bad and un-Christian. Society also teaches that masculinity is toxic or something to be ashamed of. Instead, we need to learn how to relate to our anger and aggression in a healthy way that enables us to harness the strong part of our personality.

to serve our family and community. I think that that is one of the things that I would say that I see a lot in men that I mentor and that I talk to. And you kind of referred to it earlier as just this, the thing that we've done, the trust that we've broken and the liars that we've been break so much trust with our wives that her anger comes out in sometimes rage, like you said, in a way that she wants me to feel the pain she's feeling.

Right? And my masculinity as a man won't let me like embrace that. It's good. Now it just makes me mad and I'm going to lose my cool and I'm going to fly off the handle because I'm not willing to embrace what she's going through. So unpack that a little bit. I may have led you down a path that you weren't necessarily going, but unpack that a little bit for me.

I love it. I love it, Chris. And I'm actually going to refer to, I'm going to get vulnerable here and refer to a personal experience I literally just had before this episode. With my own wife. Hopefully she's not upset by that.

Is she there where she can come on? No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (28:04.03)

Yeah, right. She'd be really surprised. She's like, boy. But so I'm an entrepreneur. building this, you know, continuing to build this business. And, and I wouldn't say I work really long hours, but you know, decently long hours. And, and so essentially, you know, I had this podcast episode tonight. I've been working till about 6 PM and this was at 7 PM. I've been doing that most days.

We have an agreement between us that I finish up, you know, shortly after six. I kind of finish up work at six and then I will transition. You know, I kind of pray and I do some other things to just get mindful and kind of breathe and things for 10 minutes. And then I go be with my family. I have been stretching that boundary lately. I've been pushing it more to like 615, 620, 630. And tonight I did that. And so I've done this probably for the last week.

And it's funny how these things that just stay kind of under the surface, we ignore them. And I felt unconsciously like, hmm, I probably shouldn't be doing this. But part of me, again, we speak in parts here, part of me is like excited about work and excited about what I'm doing. I'm learning something new and I'm like, what about this? What about that? Or part of me is like, I just got to finish up this one thing or I just get, right? Meanwhile, there's a part of me that does know.

Jake, you agreed with your wife that you were going to finish up work at this point. What you doing? It's just kind of this subtle voice. And that may even be right God or that, that higher self, right? That, that higher power that's speaking to me, like, you know, a little voice of Christ, like, Hey man, you told your wife, man, you got to be honest. And so I wasn't paying attention to that. So, because I'm not paying attention to that, who needs to bring it up? My wife, she's now placed in this situation. So she calls me probably 620.

And, you know, I don't remember what we say, but essentially she gets angry really quickly and essentially says, you know, Jake, here's the thing. You, you're working really late tonight. You have a podcast episode. You're, you're, you're a guest on a podcast tonight. I've got to make dinner. You know, I'm getting, I'm getting tired of you taking things later every night when I'm, she's pregnant too. So.

Speaker 2 (30:26.432)

Man, is making me look really bad.

No, it's making you look human, which I love.

She's pregnant, she's also, you she's got a hormone. She's, you know, only, oh my gosh, two and a half months away from due. And so feeling very heavy at this point. We have our two and a half year old son. And so she's trying to manage everything, right? It's a lot. And she's just like, I'm already having a hard enough time with you working until six. Like we agreed on that. So you could have some time to work. You're stretching it, right? And I cannot describe to you what I feel and what

Every other man I ever talked to will feel in that moment of just, it's like this, this young boy inside you just like, my gosh, I'm in trouble. It's like, like run for the hill. And what I found fascinating about tonight, which was a really huge victory for me. Like I really felt very grateful is I've been doing this work to relate to this inner critic in me. And the same way that you relate to other people's criticism.

Right?

Speaker 1 (31:15.585)

Yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (31:31.864)

you relate to the criticism internally. It's like, it's a mirror of one another, which is a fascinating inner world of parts work when you get to understand it more and more. So I've been working to relate to this part of me that says those same things and can actually be very, very harsh, very direct. I call this part the challenger or you could call it a general or I have a client that calls it the coach, right? Like a football coach that it's hard, it can be harsh and it can be

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:59.726)

Be.

angry and it can even like yell at me, right? And always what this part is trying to do, so that this is where this moment when my wife brings this up, it is not important because we can be reactive of like, why is she being so mean and rude? Gosh, you know, and it's almost like this little boy in us comes up like, geez, can you be a little nicer mom? Like, what's your deal? You know? And

And so instead I've been learning to relate to this part and see it always pretty much has two motivations. At least this is what I've seen so far. Either one it's trying to help me be better. Like it's, well, it's trying to help me be better as a whole, but either one is trying to motivate me. Like it's, it's bringing painful emotions, something very direct in order to motivate me to become greater or something that's highly counterintuitive, but I relate it to the military. You'll have generals that will.

try to break their soldiers down so that they can build back up. It's like they'll be so harsh and critical, reject them, right? They will, they will.

Speaker 2 (33:10.446)

They'll shame them. I am not saying that that is a good way to go about it. I don't find it very unkind. But if I can learn how to relate to that voice and say, if I can feel that and actually practice feeling that when that voice comes up and it's intense and be like, okay, here's this part of me showing up. It's being critical. It's being intense. It's shaming me.

Yeah

Yeah. Bye.

Speaker 2 (33:39.438)

Okay, either it's letting me know something important and it's like, hey, you got to shape up, man. Like you got to be better, dude. You're not, you're not doing well enough as a husband right now. Like you're, you're, you're, know, bringing things late every night. Like you kidding me right now? Your wife needs you. Right. Or it will be that really, really kind of critical shaming voice of just you're nothing, you know, and it'll get really, really intense. And so if I can learn to relate to that voice and practice relating to it, say, okay, it's trying to motivate you to be better or it's kind of doing this.

making me more resilient to criticism, making me more resilient to shaming so I can be stronger as a person. Again, not saying it's a great way to go about it, but the way you relate to it is important. So when my wife brings this up, I've been practicing that and fortunately, and it was really actually pretty incredible for me, I did not at that moment feel this visceral reaction of panic that I have felt for the last 10 years of my marriage whenever my

my wife gets it. I actually saw in her this same part showing up in her that's trying to protect her. It's trying to set boundaries. It's trying to get what it needs. And it's like, hey, you're not showing up well enough right now. What's your deal? Knock it off. Right. And so me hearing that and hearing the intention, in other words, the love at the core of that part that's trying to protect my wife. It's like, hey, I've got needs here, man. I'm not showing up well enough right now.

Anger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:04.002)

Yeah.

And so I was able to hear that and I was able to say, know what babe? I hear what you're saying. You're right. I haven't been showing up well enough lately as far as getting off work on time. Now you're showing up in this babysitting role to try to, you know, you have to feel like you got to tell me what to do. I got to be better. You don't deserve that. I'll make sure in the future that I'm more disciplined about this. I apologize. Oh man. It was this moment where I was just like, yeah, husband powers, man. know, like.

Masculinity, man, I'm feeling it. That is really very new for me. I've been learning about this just the last few months of my life especially and how to do this.

Yeah

Speaker 1 (35:48.43)

Yeah, that's awesome. Probably need to wrap up pretty soon, but I'd to just hear anything else that you would like to talk about. I mean, I feel like, you know, a question that I haven't asked that you were really super excited for me to ask or something like that, but anything else you want to talk about?

Yeah, man, I think I'd love to wrap up just in this approach to recovery of this approach of understanding that I truly believe that God and Christ have unconditional love for you. And I believe that the way that that works, because we can get really confused on terms with this, but I believe that He sees the deep goodness that is God given inside of you.

At your core, you're a good person. You want to be good. You want to do the right thing. And I believe that Christ is able to love us unconditionally because He knows that. He sees it. Underneath all the twisted behaviors and all the crazy stuff that we do, He's like, underneath all that anger, I see someone who's afraid. And underneath that fear, I see someone who cares and wants to do the right thing. You don't feel like you're matching up to those expectations.

And it's the same thing with our addictions. He sees how parts of us are trying to escape or find comfort or trying to find fantasy. And I think he sees underneath all that. And that's why he loves us unconditionally. Doesn't condone the behavior. He wants better for us. He wants the best for us, but he knows what's underneath, I believe.

That's awesome, man. So tell me real quick how people, I mean, obviously nomoredesire.com, right? That's the best way to get a hold of you. Any other places, like give me a snapshot. I think you've got a blog, you've got a podcast. How do they find that?

Speaker 2 (37:28.75)

Yeah, so I have a blog on my site, nomoredesire.com. can also, my podcast is on any platform you go to, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, et cetera. If you really want

name. More Desire.

Exactly. And if you want to kind of do a deep dive into some really cool free resources, if you go to my site's homepage, you'll find a free ebook, you'll find a free workshop. It's an hour and a half of some deep material of how to build a mindset and lifestyle of recovery. I'd recommend starting there.

Awesome. All right. Well, I don't know if you know this, but when I interview guests, the last thing I do is I ask a question that is not related to recovery or sobriety or anything in this world. It's really just, it's related to, I'm a storyteller. I like to tell stories. And I'm just curious, like when you're at a dinner party and you're maybe with your wife and you're with a group or whatever and

Everybody's telling their story or make telling a joke or whatever it is and the crowd kind of silent Silences for a moment at the sure turn your wife gives you the nod like do it, you know, like this is your moment What's the story? What's your go-to story that you have? That if you're in a small setting that this is like This is the one I would tell that would get everybody's attention. Doesn't have to be funny

Speaker 1 (38:55.822)

Just whatever, but I mean, just what's your go-to story? And by the way, we can edit out all the silence so you take as long as you want.

Fortunately for you and I actually have something immediately. is, so this is just something that is fairly recent. It like a few months ago or so. I think of my son because he just does all these amazing things. You know, kids, they do these incredible things that they have no idea are as amazing as they are. So I was at the park with my son, it's just him and I, and he's two and a half. And he got up to this

big slide. It's, mean, especially for a little guy like him, it was huge and fast and he went down it and dropped off of it onto his butt on the ground. And it didn't hurt him so bad physically, but it like kind of shocked him. He stood up and he just got these big eyes. And I said, I said, Hey man, are you okay? And he's like, he doesn't, he didn't kind of didn't respond. And I was like, did that, was that painful buddy?

Right, right.

Speaker 2 (40:03.618)

And I said, was it also exciting though? And I was like, sometimes life is like that. It's both exciting and painful. And I kid you not without missing a beat, my son, well, I shouldn't say without missing a beat. He kind of thinks about that. And he's like, well, that's not.

Yeah, yeah.

Two and a half, man.

Word for the wise. That's right. By the mouths of babes, wisdom comes forth.

It's awesome. You'll have a ton more stories like that for sure coming out of his mouth and your newborn, their mouth too soon. So, hey man, thank you for being a part of this today. And I tell you why, thanks for letting us have you for the last hour or so. And I'm really grateful that you're here. Thanks for the ministry that you have and that you're a part of and everything you do in the recovery world. So thanks for being on tonight.

Speaker 2 (41:01.614)

Hey, thanks man. And thanks for everything you do, Chris. Yeah. Purity Podcast, what you guys stand for is awesome. Thanks for having me on. A reminder to go to the links in the show notes to register for the Porn Resilient online event taking place between October 13th to October 16th of 2025. You can get a free ticket to attend the online event as well as purchase the implementation bundle.

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (41:28.002)

to get 20 online courses and other resources from experts in the porn and sex addiction recovery fields. Those links to get both the free ticket or the implementation bundle are entitled Porn Resilient Online Event and All Access Implementation Bundle. Please use those specific links in the show notes as a favor to support this show. Thank you and God bless.

Speaker 2 (41:58.956)

Everything expressed on the No More Desire podcast are the opinions of the host and participants and is for informational and educational purposes only. This podcast should not be considered mental health therapy or as a substitute thereof. It is strongly recommended that you seek out the clinical guidance of a qualified mental health professional. If you're experiencing thoughts of suicide, self-harm, or a desire to harm others,

please dial 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.