[SPEAKER_05]: Christian parenting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Bible for Kids Podcast with your hosts, author Trisha Goyer, and author and co-creator of Veggie Tales, Mike Nuraki.

[SPEAKER_00]: If instilling biblical values and kids is important to you, this podcast will give you the resources, wisdom, and hope to do just that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's join our hosts, Trisha, and Mike for this week's episode.

[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids podcast.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Mike Naraki and I am not Trisha Goyer.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Dan Lynch.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm normally a high in the camera, but I'm filling in for Trisha today.

[SPEAKER_01]: And today on the podcast, we welcome Carolyn LeLoglu and hopefully I didn't butcher that and we've learned that to Greek, by the way, and our pre discussions this morning.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Carolyn is the author of the Restorationist Trilogy.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to talk to her about the third and concluding book in the series, beyond the far horizon.

[SPEAKER_01]: But before we do that, we like to start every Bible for kids podcast with the Bible verse.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, Mike.

[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is from Ephesians 210.

[SPEAKER_03]: And since we're talking about restoration of fine art here, for we are all God's masterpieces.

[SPEAKER_03]: He has created us a new [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so that's it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's all there is to the verse.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it's short and concise and we love it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it fits.

[SPEAKER_01]: We are God's masterpiece.

[SPEAKER_01]: So playing off that, Carolyn is the granddaughter of art collectors.

[SPEAKER_01]: The daughter of an art teacher and a homeschooling mom to four wildly creative kids.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's an award-winning author whose poems and short stories have appeared in children's magazines around the world.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Carolyn also reviews her favorite children's books on her online platform, House full of bookworms.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to have to learn more about that to try to get some of my children's books to Caroline.

[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, welcome.

[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much for having me, guys.

[SPEAKER_03]: yeah absolutely so good to see you and we met um you know at a student event with with your daughter um uh last year at some point so uh yeah I know I know you have some creative kids so it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's great to have you on the show and uh be talking about your your new book yeah that's it's the lip [SPEAKER_01]: Let's start there.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're obviously a homeschooling mom and, you know, we've heard to four creative kids and I know that shaped much of your life.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, can you tell us about your homeschooling journey, maybe a little about the kids, how that led into writing children's books and what inspired the beginning of the Restorationist series?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I would say that, you know, there's a lot of reasons for deciding to homeschool, but I do feel like one of the huge benefits of homeschooling is the kids having extra time to pursue creative interests.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I've really seen that in my kids, like I said, [SPEAKER_05]: for wildly creative kids, two of them now are in college kind of pursuing creative careers, one of them in film and one of them in music.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so I've still got to it home that we're home schooling.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's always been a value of mine.

[SPEAKER_05]: But so I was a kid who had always wanted to write, but I actually didn't start writing for real until I was an adult with kids in my own.

[SPEAKER_05]: And part of that was taking time to read a lot of books together and just thinking about like, [SPEAKER_05]: What would it be like to do this myself?

[SPEAKER_05]: This is something I always wanted to do.

[SPEAKER_05]: And what I found was I was afraid in my taking time away from my kids if I'm spending time writing doing this creativity of my own, but what I actually found was it was inspirational to my kids like it showed them that creativity has value and gave them permission to spend time on their own creative pursuits, whether that's writing or music or [SPEAKER_05]: crocheting or painting all the things you know so I feel like that was one of the the great big surprise benefits of both you know homeschooling and being a mom who writes so well that's so great and then they're seeing you model that creativity too and just saying oh this is you know my mom is doing this she's she's [SPEAKER_03]: you know, bringing things into the world that didn't exist before.

[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, it's like that's that's a possible thing to do for me too.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I remember growing up, you know, my dad was an engineer, my mom was a nurse, and I just had such a, I loved, you know, plays, I love music, I love all that, all that thing, but there was no model for me of, okay, this is something that you can do for a career or for, you know, a ministry or whatever.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, I just love American model that for their kids, and they could say, yeah, [SPEAKER_03]: This is a thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: I can be an artist as a vocation.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's been really cool to see, and I guess we'll see where they end up if they, you know, if they end up actually in creative careers or just having like creative stuff on the side, but like that's where they're headed right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: So.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, so I just love to give listeners a little bit of a, you know, history on the series and can you kind of give a brief overview of what the series is about.

[SPEAKER_03]: I know you had beneath the swirling sky and between flowers and bones or the two first previous book.

[SPEAKER_03]: So kind of paint paint a picture, if you will, but what the, what the series covers.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so the restaurant, Rationist, I like to say it takes place in a world just like ours except that art is powerful paintings are portals and one family has been tasked with protecting them.

[SPEAKER_05]: So the series starts out with Vincent, he is a 12-year-old kid who has given up on art after a bad experience, but then he learns his family are the last restorationists to have the ability to travel inside of paintings and the duty to protect them.

[SPEAKER_05]: So when his little sister disappears and to Van Gogh's the starry night, he and his cousin, Georgia, are the only ones who can rescue her.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's got a lot of adventure, it's got these faith moments that are inside of paintings and are related to paintings.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then it's also, like all the art they visit is actual art, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And all the paintings are listed in the back of the book.

[SPEAKER_05]: So one thing I did is really try to tie it to the real world as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I try to put all the paintings in their actual locations in the real world.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that means the bad guys only have paintings that are actually stolen paintings, and so that's kind of provided a lot of cool opportunities in the writing, but then yeah, each book follows a different character.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's all kind of one big story arc, but then each character gets their own story arc, so the second book follows Vincent's cousin, Georgia, and her journey, and then the third book is Ravi, who was originally on the other side, but is now.

[SPEAKER_05]: tentatively joining the restorationist and he's trying to decide what he should really do.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that's so cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: You mentioned Starry Knight.

[SPEAKER_03]: I saw that for the very first time my wife and I were in New York to celebrate our 30th wedding anniversary.

[SPEAKER_03]: We went to the Museum of Modern Art and I didn't really know like that's where that painting was and I just I got a lump in my throat when I saw it.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, it's that big thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and it's just so, it's so beautiful to see the original, you know, work of art that, you know, it's kind of been duplicated everywhere across the thing, but, you know, just the, you know, just, you know, just, it was an emotional moment for me, you know, just think that there it's, it was really, really cool.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've gotten to see it twice.

[SPEAKER_05]: I remember the first time I saw it was in college, and I was so surprised at how small it was, because I had a big story night poster on my wall, and I thought it would be big, but it's actually great.

[SPEAKER_05]: quite small.

[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, it is just such a moving masterpiece, honestly.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's so great.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's best in like some of those originals are always like a little underwhelming in their size when you see them in birds.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was a kind of it's opposite, sometimes you get something and you're like, oh my gosh, this is huge.

[SPEAKER_01]: I remember seeing this for the first time and you walk in that room and it seems like postage day.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a small fault, you know, it's so tiny.

[SPEAKER_03]: What's the name of the author?

[SPEAKER_03]: They've got a big in the Artisan, Chicago.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the point of Lism one where it's the big Sunday in the park scene, on the blank.

[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it's not one of our, is um, anyways, I'll, I'll, I think this one, because I think it, it takes, they travel through it and book to, uh, briefly, and I am like, you know, the name as well.

[SPEAKER_03]: But that one is huge, you know, that one's a surprising one.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh my goodness, this picture is so hard.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it's sort of the opposite in that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's continue our journey here, within the books and things, you weave scripture and art together.

[SPEAKER_01]: And really fascinating way.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, how do you see art is a pathway to point kids toward the creator?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it's a really natural pathway for a lot of different reasons.

[SPEAKER_05]: First of all, there is a ton of Christian art in the Western tradition.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there's just so much of it that it's easy to kind of like find a way to weave weave in elements of faith into a book and in fact it feels like it would be.

[SPEAKER_05]: leaving something out, not to include some religious art in a book about art.

[SPEAKER_05]: But also, I think the fact that we are made in God's image, and he's a creator, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's made us, as Tolkien says, to be sub-creators, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: He's made us to create.

[SPEAKER_05]: We are his workmanship, like you read in that verse from Ephesians.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he's made us to be like him and to create just like I see that in my kids when they're Watch me creating and then they want to create.

[SPEAKER_05]: We we are creative and reflecting God's image when we are creating so it's it's a really natural fit to have a book about art and about That incorporates elements of faith into it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's wonderful [SPEAKER_03]: Um, Sarat.

[SPEAKER_03]: By the way.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Sarat.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: It came to me.

[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, it came to Google.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, point-a-lism, it comes up right away.

[SPEAKER_03]: I, you know, it seems like I should remember Sorot before I should remember point-a-lism.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, so in your books, your characters use their gifts, you know, and obviously art and creativity is a gift.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they use these gifts to fight evil.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so how does this reflect the biblical truth that God gives each of us gifts to use for his kingdom?

[SPEAKER_03]: Can you talk about that a little bit?

[SPEAKER_05]: yeah that's a great question and you know we see in the Bible like spiritual gifts of course but it goes really beyond that like back in the Old Testament the first person who's mentioned to actually be filled with the Holy Spirit I believe or the Spirit of God is the of last his name but it starts with a bee and he's he's the guy's George it's George Sarat now [SPEAKER_05]: The guy who is going to do a lot of the work in creating the tabernacle and all of those beautiful pieces that God has filled him with his spirit and given him a gift, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: And so there's all kinds of gifts that they spiritual gifts or like, you know, our minds or like physical skills that we have, there's so many different ways.

[SPEAKER_05]: that God has gifted us and those gifts are intended to be used to serve him and I think that's just a beautiful thing and I chose that word very specifically gifts.

[SPEAKER_05]: The bad guys actually have similar skills but they call them skills and not gifts and so I did try to like use it very intentionally and to get people thinking.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wow that's so cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well it is time for our first break so we'll take a short break and we'll be right back on the Bible for kids.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to the Bible for kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: Dan and I are speaking with author Carolyn LeLoglu.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that's my cue, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: So that's your cue.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's when you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: It was making an editorial note.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's not a good cue.

[SPEAKER_01]: Carolyn, let's get back into it.

[SPEAKER_01]: The Good Shepherd painting and a parable play a big role in this book.

[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about that imagery and why it's such a powerful fit for Ravi's story.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I knew pretty early on that I would love to incorporate a good shepherd imagery into this book because Ravi is someone who has kind of been lost in a way and been brought into the fold of the restorationists.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I knew it would be a really powerful image for him.

[SPEAKER_05]: And when I was researching what paintings I would like to include, I knew the Met, Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York was going to be our main setting.

[SPEAKER_05]: And as I was walking around the Met, it for research.

[SPEAKER_05]: One of the very few religious art pieces that I saw was by Henry Asua Tanner.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it was called Flight to Egypt.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I really love his art and it turns out that he painted like 23 different good shepherd paintings.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I kind of like had to go through it and choose which one.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the one I chose is is just really beautiful, has these a lot of his biblical paintings have these like blue undertones and [SPEAKER_05]: Just kind of give this in another worldly kind of feel and the shepherd's walking down the hill holding the sheep.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's a really powerful scene where one of the kind of mentor characters takes Ravi into that painting and talks to him.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's kind of a turning point for Ravi and his ability to accept and trust like who these people are that he's decided to join with.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, you have to give too much away, but...

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know spoilers here, so no, that's wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, many of our listeners are our parents, our grandparents, and I'm sure you've heard this from readers.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'd love for you to talk about that a little bit more, but, you know, how have families used your series to spark conversations, you know, about faith and creativity in God's design?

[SPEAKER_03]: If it's such a wonderful world for this to be in, and even for kids to get to know specific paintings more, but can you talk a little bit about that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I hear from a lot of families who are using it as a read aloud or a book club.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's a blogger who's created like a really great guide and to go with it and and it does like kind of awake in these conversations and provide opportunities for families to really talk through.

[SPEAKER_05]: not just art like it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean that's that's when surface level great thing that comes out of these books and stories but also to just talk through those deeper issues of like who are we made to be and like what kind of choices are we are we meant to make right to be brave to choose what's right and to follow Jesus and so I've definitely gotten a lot of great feedback from families and and that's probably my biggest joy in writing this series.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's so great.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's very cool and I love and it's such an original.

[SPEAKER_01]: thing to use these famous artworks as these portals and the stories and like I'm really intrigued to read the book now.

[SPEAKER_01]: So talk about your process for choosing the famous artworks which ones you include in the story and how you balance accuracy with imagination which is something that I think is a lot of fun and it shows up a lot in some middle reader novels.

[SPEAKER_01]: he had a great balance of including fiction with fact in that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So talk about that with your books a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well like I said, I try to be really accurate about where paintings are sometimes a cheat a little bit.

[SPEAKER_05]: So like so the starry night I actually had it turn up in the character of Angolio's house because he is an art ristor and is supposed to be able to [SPEAKER_05]: restore paintings that no one else can.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so story night happens to be at his house at the time of this adventure, but other than that, you got a suspended disbelief for that one.

[SPEAKER_05]: But all the rest I really tried to research well and of course is difficult because art moves around paintings are relocated or sold or whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: but I tried to place things where they are in real life, and that kind of gave me a framework and like limitations to work around, and it really provided some beautiful opportunities.

[SPEAKER_05]: So like I said, the bad guys could only have stolen paintings, and so I was researching stolen paintings in the first book specifically.

[SPEAKER_05]: I ended up finding Storm on the Sea of Galilee by Rembrandt, and that ended up being just such a beautiful, and most people tell me it's their favorite scene of the book because it's very moving, and that is the kind of crux for Vincent and that book.

[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, there's been some fun stuff with book three, where one of the stolen paintings [SPEAKER_05]: at the time of writing actually was recovered before the book was published, so that's kind of an exciting thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Look, I like to pretend that the restoration has had something to do with that, but yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow, that's so cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, a lot of parents don't feel particularly artsy.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, what could they do?

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if they're interested in kind of getting their kids involved in art and creativity, what are some of your thoughts for how they can do that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think you actually don't have to be an artsy person to be able to talk about paintings with your kids and exposure kids to art.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I've got some actually great resources on my website at CarolindlyLogglue.com.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I've got a picture guide study.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a tool that was promoted by Charlotte Mason.

[SPEAKER_05]: She was like an 18th century educator who's been very influential in the homeschool movement.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's just like a really simple tool for looking at art with your kids and just learning more about it.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you really don't have to know anything going in.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then I have another guide to visiting art museums with your kids because I think visiting a museum and seeing paintings in real life is actually very different than seeing it on a screen or even in a book, especially with someone like Van Gogh, where you have that texture that's really just sitting off the canvas casting shadows.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like not the same seeing it on a page versus in person.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so [SPEAKER_05]: And I do encourage people to go experience art with their kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's a whole guide about what you should think through and ways to approach that on the website.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's so cool.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I can't think of help but think about you just like researching these books.

[SPEAKER_03]: You must have like a ton of fun, like, you know, you mentioned that you went to the Met and all these museums.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was researching, did you get into a lot of museums that you normally, you know, maybe wouldn't have otherwise?

[SPEAKER_05]: you'd be surprised.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I've actually started writing the series in 2020.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I was not going to any museums at that time because they were all closed.

[SPEAKER_05]: So thankfully, some of the ones featured in that book, like the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam, has a really great Google walkthrough.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's where I got a lot of my information.

[SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't actually able to, so, and then book two, one of the featured museums is my local Art Museum, the McNay, which is just a gorgeous museum, it's smaller, [SPEAKER_05]: And then for book three, between kind of like in the middle of writing book two before I started book three, I was invited to New York to visit a friend and we went together to the met and the mama.

[SPEAKER_05]: And fortunately I was getting over a broken foot, so I was not like super ambulatory.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I didn't get to see as much as I wanted, but that was actually really great to be able to do that.

[SPEAKER_05]: So didn't travel as much as I would have liked for research for these, but the traveling that I did was really, really amazing and added to the veracity of the books.

[SPEAKER_01]: And you still have opportunity to do that in the future.

[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can go visit the moments in your books.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I would love to do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And where's that?

[SPEAKER_05]: That one's embossed it.

[SPEAKER_05]: That was so that was the one that the Rembrandt painting was stolen from the storm on the Sea of Galilee.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's still missing and they just have the frame that it was cut out if they're not allowed to replace it or they like lose their whole.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting thing and her will where she set it up like they can't change any of the art which also means they can't replace the stolen pieces.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, it's interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, beyond the far horizon is the conclusion to your trilogy.

[SPEAKER_01]: So first off, congratulations of getting to that conclusion.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've been a co-creator, a middle reader fiction series that is a seven book series and it's been 15 years in the [SPEAKER_03]: Got to land that plane.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to land that plane.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.

[SPEAKER_01]: The screen will be at the conclusion.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I understand the finale involved here.

[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, what themes are questions in the series did you most want to resolve for your readers in this final book?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I definitely wanted to get to a place where we feel like we've been cheering for the restoration as this whole time.

[SPEAKER_05]: We want to see them have a win and to know that they're going to be OK and that it's, you know, I don't want to spoil exactly what happens.

[SPEAKER_05]: It was really interesting because I didn't know exactly how they would win, but it was very cool to get to that point and see them really at a place where they could flourish.

[SPEAKER_03]: Wonderful.

[SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we have a couple more questions for you, but it is time for a final break.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back on the Bible for kids.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm Mike Nurekki, co-creator of Veggie Tales, Voice of Larry DeCuecomber, and author of The Dead Sea Squirrels.

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We'll welcome back to the Bible for Kids Podcast on Dan Lynch.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm stepping in for Trisha today as a co-host with Mike.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we are talking to author Carolyn LaLoglu about the final book in her restoration [SPEAKER_03]: Helen, I asked you before the break just about introducing kids to art and what parents could do with that even if they aren't particularly artsy themselves, but, you know, a lot of kids today spend time on digital devices, you know, buried in phones or iPads, what advice would you give for parents of raising children in a digital age?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I know you have an art-filled home and you've, you know, practice that with your kids.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, can you give us some advice in that corner?

[SPEAKER_05]: yeah i'm definitely in the trenches there um it was a lot easier when the the older kids were little and there weren't you know all the iPads and devices everywhere so i would just encourage parents like put those boundaries around devices we've never been like a no device family um but what we did early on was say hey we're not going to do screens um except for on weekends that was when the the kids were little [SPEAKER_05]: And that really helped so much because then they weren't constantly asking because if they were constantly asking you know I was going to break down eventually right so it just kind of created a lot of peace in the home Give them time to be bored enough to start creating things themselves and I think that really is key that boredom creates creativity right like it gives you opportunity to find something creative to do [SPEAKER_05]: So I really, number one, encourage that, and number two, just have conversations with your kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think especially about AI, that's kind of been the big thing, you know, I have a daughter who's in high school, and she has friends who have used AI for, you know, school projects and stuff that they shouldn't have, and one of my, one of my kids, um, [SPEAKER_05]: hit a instructor on an online class and he told him, don't let AI steal your voice.

[SPEAKER_05]: And that's really what it is, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Kids think that they are cheating the system when reality they're cheating themselves.

[SPEAKER_05]: So either for school projects or for creative projects, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: If you're asking AI to do it for you, you're losing that humanity, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: That part of you that's made in guides image and meant to create, you're giving that to a machine.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so, [SPEAKER_05]: I would just have parents like, hey, just talk to your kids about this, like have them think through these these issues and you know, just try to put limits where you can and just be wise about how your family interacts with with these things because it's so easy to let it just take over.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.

[SPEAKER_01]: The device thing, I think, you know, it's, it's, I agree.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's so important, you know, on both sides and, you know, AI finds an interesting place, you know, in our lives today, there's, there's, there's part of me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, I get that, don't let it take your voice away, but it's the same time.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's here.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's important for kids and adults to use it wisely and to learn how to use it wisely.

[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, but the whole thing with voice is so great because there's a temptation to say, Okay, well, I'll let this, you know, I'll let this AI write the first draft for me and then I'll go in and edit it, you know, whatever, but no, I mean that first draft is where your voice comes from.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean that's what I do.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, as a grad student and in my, like as a read as a professor, I tend to use it for research and then I write my assignment paper and then I let AI review it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, against the prompt and say, okay, what's missing, you know, so, you know, I hope I'm using it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I think there's definitely uses for it, and I think those, there's probably fewer uses of it for kids that are legitimate, because, I mean, it's going to be like, a piece of cake for them to learn it later, if you don't allow your kids to use it right now.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think that's a big deal, but what I am real concerned about is like kids just [SPEAKER_05]: that part of them and this is the time when you're learning how to think, how to have a voice, how to create.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if you're like, okay, AI, make this art for me, write the story for me, write the song for me, whatever, you're giving away that part and not learning in those formative years that you, that's time that you really are able to develop that.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, yes.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's the whole point of an artistic voice and it's just that idea of what makes you someone in particular, you know, what's that thing that's going to connect to another human being because of the the person and the artist that you are and if that's just all generalized.

[SPEAKER_03]: then, you know, then art goes away.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so that particularity is super important.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this question may tie into that, son, but we'll see.

[SPEAKER_01]: But what do you hope that young readers take away from Ravi's story, especially, you know, when they may feel unseen or uncertain of their place in the world?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Ravi's story is really about finding belonging and to recognize that you belong that you are precious and valued, right, that's what you see in that good-chippered painting, that last sheep is precious and valued no matter what he's done.

[SPEAKER_05]: As far as the series is a whole, what I really want kids to take away is that you are made to create, right, God has given you gifts and you are made to use those gifts, whatever they are.

[SPEAKER_03]: That's beautiful.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Caroline, this has been delightful talking with you.

[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much.

[SPEAKER_03]: Congratulations again for landing the plane on the third book.

[SPEAKER_03]: Can you share with our listeners how they can connect with you and learn more about your book and where to buy your book?

[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, there's a few places you can go on social media everywhere.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just has full of bookworms.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's also my book review site.

[SPEAKER_05]: You can find me at carelandlylogglood.com.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you can also find out more about the series at the restorationist.com.

[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.

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[SPEAKER_01]: See you all later.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Bible for Kids Podcast with Trisha Goyer and Mike Nurekki.

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