[SPEAKER_00]: Christian parenting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Bible for Kids Podcast with your hosts, author Trisha Goyer, and author and co-creator of Veggie Tales, Mike Nuraki.

[SPEAKER_00]: If instilling biblical values and kids is important to you, this podcast will give you the resources, wisdom, and hope to do just that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's join our hosts, Trisha, and Mike for this week's episode.

[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids Podcast.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Mike Naraki.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Trisha Goyer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Today, Mike and I welcome Jessica Smart to discuss her new book, come on home.

[SPEAKER_01]: Before we do that, we like to start every Bible for kids podcast with a Bible verse.

[SPEAKER_01]: Mike.

[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[SPEAKER_02]: And this verse is Joshua 24, 15.

[SPEAKER_02]: But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I've seen that many times on many a plaque.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a great verse.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: And Jessica Smart is the author of Memory Making Mom and let them be kids, which is an ECPA bestseller.

[SPEAKER_01]: She lives in Sunny, North Carolina on a family farm which we will be talking about with horses, chickens, and an ever increasing number of beloved cats.

[SPEAKER_01]: She and her husband Todd has three kids whom the homeschooled, she is passionate about energizing every day moms to save childhood and build close-knit families.

[SPEAKER_01]: Jessica loves bike rides, spinach, keych, which sounds delicious right now.

[SPEAKER_01]: A clean kitchen, bean warm, national parks and food that anyone else made.

[SPEAKER_01]: So welcome Jessica.

[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, it's an honor to be here.

[SPEAKER_02]: oh so great to have you um so i got to hear about this farm before we jump into the book can you tell us a little bit more about your family and the farm all those cats does that mean there's a a lot of mice there on the farm as well yes but disappointingly the cats kill more birds than mice and it's like such a tragic i'm like i love birds stop killing the birds no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no [SPEAKER_05]: They are scared of the chickens.

[SPEAKER_05]: They don't go near the chickens.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, some of the dogs might.

[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: So we, I several years ago, my sister started looking for property.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so it's just kind of like a family dream that we had always had.

[SPEAKER_05]: And here we are.

[SPEAKER_05]: So in the cul-de-sac, out the window, I can see my two sisters and my parents across the way.

[SPEAKER_05]: So there are 10 kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think they're all ages six, [SPEAKER_05]: teen to 10 to 16, which is crazy.

[SPEAKER_05]: Two girls.

[SPEAKER_05]: Only two girls.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's very dirty.

[SPEAKER_03]: Loud and dirty farm.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's more of a, like, I guess, mini homestead.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we're not like milking cows specifically, but uh, [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I do talk about that in the book and I know not everybody can do that, so I, you know, also offer lots of different ideas of other families and, you know, just ways to be close without physically being close, although I will say, if you have the opportunity and you can do it, it's very cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh man, I can imagine and you're sort of like also doing actual farming even though it's not like, you know, like, subsistence farming or like you're eating the chicken eggs and all that kind of stuff right?

[SPEAKER_05]: That's true.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly.

[SPEAKER_05]: Good point.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we, yeah, anyway.

[SPEAKER_05]: So just, I don't want anybody to think I'm like out there, you know, with a pitch fork or something.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: The American Gothic.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see it now.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've had my grandma that lived with us for 25 years and then my in-laws find a new house.

[SPEAKER_01]: My in-laws are moving in with this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm all for families being together and just I love the heart of your messages.

[SPEAKER_01]: So just in general for all your books really what you want to speak to readers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it so important for you for moms, for parents?

[SPEAKER_01]: to get really real about their capacity, their health, and their gifts for shaping their family's culture.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love how you check what this is, how we do things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like you could do things differently and I think that goes to their gifts.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how should we each just kind of figure out who we are and how we can shape our unique family culture.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I talk a lot of cool things like, you know, going on trips and making memories and how you can invest in your kids, but I thought before I kind of get into like all of that, you really have to like look at, so to speak, look at the person in front of you reading the book and say, how are you doing?

[SPEAKER_05]: What's happening in your life?

[SPEAKER_05]: What are your liabilities?

[SPEAKER_05]: What are your strengths?

[SPEAKER_05]: Because God equips us uniquely.

[SPEAKER_05]: in who we are and not everybody has the gifts that I have but people have different gifts and their families are all unique and I think I also wanted people to take a minute and just be honest about the state of their life in their home because you can't change what you don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: about.

[SPEAKER_05]: You have to have a vision and a vision requires being honest about what's maybe not present or not there.

[SPEAKER_05]: So it's not a discouraging start at all.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's really more like, hey, this is an opportunity to maybe just [SPEAKER_05]: Take a deep breath and thank through like are all the things on your plate what you want them to be and are there things that maybe the Lord is saying you can let go of and also being honest about like what do you really want to change in your family what are you what are y'all good at and what do you hope to improve in [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so just like to goal set, I guess, and I know I love that word.

[SPEAKER_05]: My husband, it makes him want to fall asleep when I say this phrase is so I get this, not everybody's cup of tea, but just trying to kind of like encourage people that even [SPEAKER_05]: in your hardships, the Lord will work through those.

[SPEAKER_05]: We do have to be honest about them and say, God, what do you have for me in this?

[SPEAKER_05]: Can you help with this?

[SPEAKER_05]: Or what are you leading me to let go of?

[SPEAKER_05]: And also to be thankful for our gifts in the state of our life, you know.

[SPEAKER_05]: We, like you said, you always had extended family.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's a huge gift if somebody has that.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's just an example.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I kind of go through lots of ways to look at your life and maybe say I didn't even realize some of these things that were assets in building a strong family.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's kind of what I was going with there.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you talked a little bit in the book about loving authority.

[SPEAKER_02]: How does that look in a healthy home and why do kids crave that?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I just think about my parents.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think they really modeled that so well.

[SPEAKER_05]: We didn't feel like there was a lot of rules.

[SPEAKER_05]: Weirdly, they're what, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there was the fence was very firm.

[SPEAKER_05]: But they just did a good job of cultivating a home that was full of life and joy and a lot of love and care.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so it was sort of like things certain things were discouraged and they didn't even need to go any further than that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, you know, I know that every kid is different and that won't work with everybody.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I saw them balance so well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there was somebody, I think I phrased it in the book.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there was someone driving the car.

[SPEAKER_05]: There was someone at the helm.

[SPEAKER_05]: You didn't have to worry.

[SPEAKER_05]: You were on an easy about like, is there someone [SPEAKER_05]: kids want that.

[SPEAKER_05]: They really do.

[SPEAKER_05]: We don't believe it, but nothing about kids has changed, you know, since the beginning of time and God wired us to need authority.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so even if they're kicking screaming, they want that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But balancing that with, you know, love and even like, I say in the book, like, looking for ways to [SPEAKER_05]: let kids know that you really enjoy them, which is harder at certain seasons than in other seasons admittedly, but that's why we need God and His grace.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that's I always just remind myself in difficult times like love hard discipline hard.

[SPEAKER_05]: If there's a kid that's kind of being, you know, [SPEAKER_05]: annoying.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to let go of the discipline, but I'm also going to simultaneously really make sure that I'm loving them in the way that is their speaks to them.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it has to be both, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the love has to come first and you're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think kids really crave that structure.

[SPEAKER_02]: We talk a lot about wanting kids to kind of explore and be curious, but there has to, and there's space for that, but that structure is really what they crave and what they helps them feel safe and secure, I think, as well.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think sometimes we get so concerned about like all the bad things they could do that we kind of get heavy on the discipline and I love how you talk about loving authority you are going to have those boundaries, but you're also going to be pouring into them and loving them and I think I love how that's a balance and you also talk about you know with with kids as a grow and talk about all the kids running around on your farm and there's always so many activities and the schedules are packed and [SPEAKER_01]: Family life can feel chaotic.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just amazed when I sit next to other families on the bleachers of my kids basketball games How many activities their kids are involved in?

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so much going on so how can in the busy lives where we feel we have to do all these things?

[SPEAKER_01]: What are some practical ways that parents can be intentional about creating both quality and quantity time with their kids?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think it's significant that those two questions were backed back because what I've seen with a lot of appearances they're uneasy with discipline and I think it's because they don't they haven't poured in the time so they are nervous understandably about making a withdrawal because they haven't filled up their kids and they struggle with all this guilt.

[SPEAKER_05]: So that time is so important and I was just listening to a podcast the other day I can't remember the guy's name but he was saying the myth of quantity time and he said you need a lot of time with your kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's how they grow and connect with you.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah I mean it is important to use that time well and be intentional but there's no getting around the fact that [SPEAKER_05]: it takes a lot of time to raise a human being like even a friendship it takes a lot of time to grow and so it's going to take a lot of time to build a relationship um so I mean we like yeah I mean our kids just very specifically like our kids do play [SPEAKER_05]: travel sports, but they could be on better teams.

[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we'll look back and say, we should have really dug in more.

[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, you won't.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, you won't.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, you won't.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, and we turn things down.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there's, oh, you can come to this extra process.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is just an example with soccer.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's, oh, we say, no, a lot.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we really, and so I'm very intentional to like, in the week, [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm in the very, I think this is like a real busy time when your kids are teens and middle years, that's crazy.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: But we have one night a week that's family dinner and I will carve it in like this is a special event like anything else.

[SPEAKER_05]: Tell people know, and everybody has different, you know, bandwidths, I guess, you know, I know all families are different.

[SPEAKER_05]: But and you can maximize the time in the car and blah, blah, blah.

[SPEAKER_05]: But [SPEAKER_05]: But, man, I don't regret a lot of the nose in my life.

[SPEAKER_05]: I look back regretting the yeses, so.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I love you talking about just the, you know, just having time, you know, a lot of time.

[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think kids can sniff out, you know, [SPEAKER_02]: If you're trying to maximize your time and set up teachable moments, you know, it's like, okay, I'm going to have, I'm going to have like, you know, an hour of teachable moments coming up here.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's so much is important.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's just much more important just to have that, you know, natural time that you spend with your kids and, you know, not having an agenda like that to say, okay, I'm going to go through all these things.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, uh, [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we've got lots more questions for you, but it is time for a break, so we're going to do that and we'll be right back on the Bible for kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: As Christian parents, we all want to be praying for our kids, but knowing what to pray can be hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: That's why Christian parents created a great cloud of witnesses prayer journey to help busy parents like you intentionally pray for your child and their faith all year long.

[SPEAKER_01]: This week's late journal walks through the lives of faithful men and women in the scripture.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like Abraham, Sarah, Moses, and Rayhab, who trusted and extraordinary God.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Growing character, deep in their faith, and trust God's plan.

[SPEAKER_01]: And every Monday on the part in the MES podcast, Courtney Defeo will be praying through the journal with you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the Bible for Kids Podcast, and we are here with Jessica Smart.

[SPEAKER_02]: Jessica, this is a question that is on every parent's mind, all the time I feel like.

[SPEAKER_02]: And my kids are older now, they're in their 20s, but we were just on the cusp of social media when they were in their pre-teens.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was a nightmare.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's gotten much better.

[SPEAKER_02]: So it just would love to talk about technology.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's one of the biggest challenges for parents.

[SPEAKER_02]: What principles guide your approach to things like screen time and how do you create healthy boundaries without isolating your kids from the digital world?

[SPEAKER_02]: And I know maybe on the farm you've got like, you know, signal jammers and stuff like that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wish I wish I did.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yeah, just talk about that a little bit for us.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I say in the book, I feel like this is the one thing to get right.

[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like we've definitely made some mistakes, but when I look back, I'm really grateful that we minimize it as much as possible.

[SPEAKER_05]: Kids, this stuff is intuitively [SPEAKER_05]: easy to understand and give a kid a phone for two seconds and they will know more than you did.

[SPEAKER_05]: So the whole like they've got to learn how to use it is a ridiculous argument.

[SPEAKER_05]: They will learn.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we I don't really feel like we're sheltering them even just through techno or education.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's so many different portals that you have to figure out.

[SPEAKER_05]: So they'll get that, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: But we've just restricted it as much as we really reasonably can.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think homeschooling has bought us some time, [SPEAKER_05]: you know, my kids did my oldest is 16 and he just got a cell phone and he was probably the only there was one other person in our circle, entire circle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I was nervous.

[SPEAKER_05]: I felt so sad when I was driving to the home from Verizon.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, this is it.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is the end of his closet.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's a guess a sense that that's true.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a burden.

[SPEAKER_05]: So principle number one is, I'm not given any technology as a like wrapped up like a present because it's not a gift.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's a burden that I have to carry and learn how to do it well.

[SPEAKER_05]: So if you give it, it's like, [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, here's this hard thing.

[SPEAKER_05]: We all kind of have and you're gonna have we trust you at this level now to kind of learn how to do it But what's been intricate you give it as a gift, but it's wrapped in Pandora's box Exactly, no hundred percent.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so Yeah, but one thing that's been cool has been seeing that the foundation for him had been laid over a lot of years He developed his creativity [SPEAKER_05]: and he had good relationships with other kids, you know, had developed his face.

[SPEAKER_05]: So he's using his phone kind of as an extension of that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's not really changing a lot like he's got the little to-do app, because he's a goal-setter and he'll read his Bible and he'll text it, you know, so, I mean, is it a huge, it's still a huge deal.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we've got that thing locked down like crazy, you know?

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_05]: There's no social media, there's no safari, there's no YouTube, like you could still find some.

[SPEAKER_05]: Monitoring, you know, thing, and that'll transition over the years where there's less about and he'll have more built-in accountability from his friends.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, but it has been cool.

[SPEAKER_05]: That has been cool to see that if you put in the time and let them be bored and play and develop relationships and go outside and play in the dirt and read, read, read, read, read, read.

[SPEAKER_05]: it didn't like completely undo all of that, you know?

[SPEAKER_05]: So that was kind of reassuring to me.

[SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, those are just some tips, but anyone who, I guess I would just say like anybody who's on the fence about something, here's your sign, just wait, put it off as long as you can, let them, let them be kids, stick out my book, it just, I have been so grateful for that.

[SPEAKER_05]: It has been just a huge gift to our family and it has been hard because you're, you are alone.

[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and there were moments that he was like, Mom, everybody else has fallen.

[SPEAKER_05]: but we have decided that that is, yes, that is bad and that's sad, but it's nowhere near you know what we're getting.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm not denying that it's hard and sad for you at the second.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, especially my parents, it's like, I don't want my child to fall behind and learning the technology and all of that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's kind of where we are with AI right now.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, okay, well, everybody's using AI, so I gotta figure out how to use AI, but that comes with a cost that is unknown at this point.

[SPEAKER_02]: And we know what the costs of getting kids involved in social media too early are.

[SPEAKER_02]: So, and other things online.

[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's also important to have conversations even if they are not the one to phones or technology.

[SPEAKER_01]: We had situations where our kids did not have it at all, but the neighbor kids didn't.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the neighbor kids had full access and the neighbors kids were showing our kids things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so right away, we're like, oh, I get we still have to have these conversations or summer camp, church summer camp, all the things that it is out there, but having the conversations [SPEAKER_01]: with them when to what, you know, good pictures, bad pictures, when to what look away, not to watch it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's present, but yeah, there's so much going on for their little minds, do not need all that's out there.

[SPEAKER_05]: No, and I think another ancillary point is just authenticity in us as adults.

[SPEAKER_05]: and that's super hard but like we don't want to be the kind of parents that are like each of vegetables and we never do or you know phones are terrible for you and we're stuck on ours so as your kids get older that can be really convicting when you're like they're just going to probably mimic our habits so what are we doing and making it more of a communal one time I told my kids I would give them a dollar every time they saw me on my phone when we were trying [SPEAKER_05]: And I said, I would describe that as a very effective and awful way to break a habit.

[SPEAKER_02]: Expensive as well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm like darn it.

[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_05]: But there I'm trying to show them like I'm in this too.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's great.

[SPEAKER_02]: That is awesome.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let's talk about just those bonds.

[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Mike and I both have adult kids, which is the best feeling when they want to spend time with you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, let's talk about, you know, today we talked about family members running opposite directions, but what are ways that families can build strong bonds?

[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, your parents did that if they have three daughters that are living like across the street for them.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so what are some things that we can do to build bonds not only with the parents, but with siblings and foster that sense of loyalty?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, one thing my mom did so well that I, it's very challenging and convicting to me.

[SPEAKER_05]: is that she was really all in on her kids and part of that is a wiring and a personality you know she wasn't writing books and I'm writing books and I feel like that's what I need to do but there was no doubt that like she had the time for you and if you needed something or if you had a crisis or you were worried about something [SPEAKER_05]: she was there and I think I have a gut feeling that a lot of us in my generation are going to look back and feel pretty conflicted about all the things we were doing and how scattered we were and just maybe not of is available emotionally.

[SPEAKER_05]: So she just did that really well and I think I said in the book it felt like all of us were her favorite so she would find things that she [SPEAKER_05]: with my mom and I discuss books and politics.

[SPEAKER_05]: And my sister loves to cook and decorate.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so they would talk about that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And with every, I have a brother too.

[SPEAKER_05]: And they would, there were certain things they would enjoy.

[SPEAKER_05]: And we just knew that, that's amazing.

[SPEAKER_05]: To be able to connect with each one in a way that made you, not just you, you have like 27 kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know how to, I'm sitting here thinking through all of the different things like, oh, I need to figure out what's, no, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's easier with four, probably.

[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, they just and and what times like birthdays and holidays we we can you know talk more about that But that was a big deal like I just watched her she was hosting my Her cousin and she just prepared for that for weeks, you know thinking through what would she need in her room And what foods am I gonna make and is there an eye and it's that kind of like taking the time for someone else [SPEAKER_05]: when she did that with us, and she still does that with us, and she does it with our kids.

[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, it's just, I mean, it is nothing.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not making up anything new.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's just like spending the time to actually be present and really pay attention and love somewhat.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it, you know, leaves right into my next question just about the type of environment that you create at home and this idea of nest, you know, a place where kids actually want to be and they feel safe and it's inviting.

[SPEAKER_02]: What are some practical ways parents can create that kind of atmosphere in their homes?

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I think practical would be [SPEAKER_05]: like pancakes and pizza and right, because kids get older, but really, like, I think that meals and, you know, providing like, here's just an extra little something I was thinking about you guys.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's been really important to me.

[SPEAKER_05]: My love language is food, so maybe that's not a root.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I was just speaking with, I don't know if you know Jennifer Papito, Trisha, but her kids are, I think your kids ages, [SPEAKER_05]: and she was saying she was gone for a week and and they'd re-range her living room to put it like a movie theater, like put the couchs, and she was like, I had to die a little bit to myself because, but hey, I don't like the TV.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to minimize it, but they had like had this one maybe night altogether, and so she was talking about the importance of like being flexible, which is not easy for me.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's a million ways we can do that, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: and Julie seeing my kids all, you know, Kayla Squirrel, or I think there's some terrible thing that I need to come see you.

[SPEAKER_05]: And be excited about what's happening.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna go, look at that girl.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, awesome, guys.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I would imagine too, it's creating a place where their friends want to be as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, where their friends feel welcome.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like, okay, I want to be with my friends, but man, I love, you know, that my mom loves my friends and my dad loves my friends as well.

[SPEAKER_02]: I can come into my house as well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, our house was always the party house.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, that was so smart the way you did that, you know, because like the after prom party was there and they had a night.

[SPEAKER_05]: They knew who will keep an eye on and what was going down after the end of that night.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my goodness.

[SPEAKER_02]: We have to take another short break.

[SPEAKER_02]: This is so much fun talking, but we're going to take a short break.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be right back on the Bible for kids.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, I'm Mike Nurekki, co-creator of Veggie Tales, Voice of Larry DeCuecomber, and author of The Dead Sea Squirrels.

[SPEAKER_02]: Young readers will love the nutty misadventures of 10-year-old Michael in his friends as they navigate school, learn about the Bible, flee from squirrel nappers, and more.

[SPEAKER_02]: The Dead Sea Squirrels is packed with clean humor and excitement, perfect for enticing even the most reluctant readers.

[SPEAKER_02]: Along the way, kids will laugh out loud and learn wholesome biblical lessons from [SPEAKER_02]: Don't miss all 12 Dead Sea squirrels' books, available wherever books are sold.

[SPEAKER_02]: Plus, stream the animated series on Minotid A.

Welcome back to the Bible for Kids podcast, Trish and I are speaking with author Jessica Smart.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's just stuff I'm talking to you and just talking about the importance of family, but really the core is the parents.

[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think sometimes, you know, I feel like I'm almost having to do this for my husband, like, go pick up this child here because this was a star which this is not, this should not be our life.

[SPEAKER_01]: There are days like that, but I think it's so important to foster that relationship with your spouse.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I want to share some simple tips that couples can stay connected and really nurture that relationship.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't feel overwhelming and chaotic even though sometimes it is in real life.

[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: I have read Sacred Marriage.

[SPEAKER_05]: This is the second time I'm rereading it this year.

[SPEAKER_05]: I checked my notes and I was like, oh my goodness, this is a very good book.

[SPEAKER_05]: I picked it up.

[SPEAKER_05]: But there is so much in there and it's just so convicting, you know, his tagline or satat or whatever is like, [SPEAKER_05]: What if marriage isn't to make you happy but make you holy and how you love God through loving your spouse?

[SPEAKER_05]: And if that doesn't change everything about everything, you know, because even those of us who are believers and like kind of signed up to do this for the right reasons Every day is about like me and what I want and really if I'm being honest, right?

[SPEAKER_05]: It's like here's my and so [SPEAKER_05]: Just reorienting yourself to the whole purpose of marriage.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, frankly, I'd recommend that book for sure.

[SPEAKER_05]: And then I guess I've just realized like we've been married almost 20 years.

[SPEAKER_05]: And...

[SPEAKER_05]: think I thought it would not, you shouldn't have to like force yourself to go on dates.

[SPEAKER_05]: You would just want to like, it would be so, I would realize like, that doesn't mean it's bad that you have to like, I don't really feel like talking to you right this time.

[SPEAKER_05]: But it's not like we are going to do and you'll always feel grateful, you know, afterwards.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I think that's what I would say is like, [SPEAKER_05]: There's maybe a little bit of shame because it's your initially like this is so wonderful and so exciting and then there's a crazy little years where it's like we would love to be together We just really can't and then life is nuts in those middle years because you're pulled so strongly But to really like fight for that time together and and be intentional about it Yeah, that's lame.

[SPEAKER_05]: I know every merit.

[SPEAKER_05]: That's what they say, but it sure seems like it's true like just [SPEAKER_05]: pushing, pushing through that and not feeling bad if it's like, this is our schedule, like, we're going to connect.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_02]: I totally get that because, you know, there's those times when it's like, okay, we could go out and spend time together, but it's just going to be so much easier to stay home and sit on the couch.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and relax this way, but yeah, being intentional about being together and spending that time.

[SPEAKER_02]: And you're right, I mean, you do that.

[SPEAKER_02]: You take that step out there and it's like, oh, okay, this is great and you're grateful that you've made it.

[SPEAKER_05]: We do like each other.

[SPEAKER_05]: We do like each other.

[SPEAKER_02]: We do like nothing in common.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you make the point in your book that it's never too late to start building a strong family.

[SPEAKER_02]: What encouragement would you give to a mom who feels like, she might be starting from scratch or, you know, there's somehow behind and getting a start on that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I talk a lot about my grandmother in the book and she was starting from scratch, but she built this incredible legacy of grandchildren and great grandchildren who knew her, who knew they were loved by her.

[SPEAKER_05]: but she had to start the race like she started it and she didn't have a strong marriage by the way, she had a very difficult marriage.

[SPEAKER_05]: They were dirt poor.

[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she told my one time they would eat dandelion soup like literal from the yard.

[SPEAKER_04]: That's what she was doing.

[SPEAKER_05]: Look, like, and they moved, I don't know, 34 times, but she prioritized her family and she relied on the Lord for strength in a very tangible, tangible way.

[SPEAKER_05]: He was very real to her.

[SPEAKER_05]: and making up the gaps and she had many.

[SPEAKER_05]: And my mom, when she was my age, did not have this, like her life looked a lot different from mine, but she has grown this family, you know, as she poured into it, she gets to kind of reap the rewards.

[SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, absolutely, it's not, I think that's a lie, frankly, from the devil.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think he uses that to tell people, give up, it's not worth it.

[SPEAKER_05]: That works for them, it's not going to work for you, you know, because I just have been reminded over and over, especially as I've launched this book and written it.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think Satan hates families so much.

[SPEAKER_05]: And he is seeking in every way to break it apart, seeking to break the marriage apart.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I stumbled on that verse in Proverbs that says, a wise woman builds her house but a foolish woman tears it down with her own hands.

[SPEAKER_05]: And you're like, what in the world?

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, who would tear down their house with their own hands?

[SPEAKER_05]: But I've actually seen that.

[SPEAKER_05]: And there's been times in my life where I'm like, bye ever, my discontentment [SPEAKER_05]: you know, being just giving up overwhelmed or checking out or whatever.

[SPEAKER_05]: And tearing down my house with my own hands instead of building it up.

[SPEAKER_05]: But God gives us the grace and gives us the ability no matter where we are starting.

[SPEAKER_05]: to take that next step.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I have just story after story and the book is full of them of, you know, unlikely heroes, you know, people who they shouldn't have this strong family, but they do because, because of, because God.

[SPEAKER_05]: So just not to be discouraged, not to let Satan discourage you.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love also that, you know, we don't have to do this alone.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not like, okay, just because it's all up to you to have a shrine family or it's all up to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's all up to Mike, but we have God, and we have faith, and we can turn them in prayer.

[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes I'll be like in the middle of a day and I'm like, I haven't even prayed.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, so stressed about whatever it is.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I haven't even prayed about it, or one of my kids is going through a hard thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Have I stopped to pray about this today?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, I haven't, and I think so many times, [SPEAKER_01]: we let the business or the stress or the worries kind of overwhelm us.

[SPEAKER_01]: So how can faith and prayer really keep us anchored?

[SPEAKER_01]: And what would you give, you know, maybe for a parent that's saying, oh, it's the nice that you guys are talking like this, but I can't do this.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm running on empty.

[SPEAKER_01]: What encouragement do you have for them?

[SPEAKER_05]: Well, another great resource is if you haven't read it of praying life, that has completely changed my life.

[SPEAKER_05]: I've read it twice in the second time, start doing his little prayer card system for people in my life.

[SPEAKER_05]: And it's been really crazy to see how God has answered direct in specific prayers.

[SPEAKER_05]: And the cards really just help you, focus you, because we are all so tired and distracted.

[SPEAKER_05]: But he says in there, speaking about parenting, [SPEAKER_05]: Like, there was a moment where he realized I could not parent without prayer.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I was completely helpless.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I, I think, says it better than that.

[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't remember the exact words.

[SPEAKER_05]: But that sentiment has really become more clear in my life.

[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, like, I actually can't do this period.

[SPEAKER_05]: We're all going to kill ourselves.

[SPEAKER_05]: We actually need the Lord.

[SPEAKER_05]: And so that's desperation.

[SPEAKER_05]: just the regular kind of habit, building the habit of, you know, lifting, I feel that but I really didn't the first couple years of parenting because I was just so tired and but it's been really fruitful to begin to implement that and I now see I need God for everything and just also having a history now [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, amen.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just one more question.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're, you know, we think about our families is sort of our little unit, you know, here doing our thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: But you talk about families changing the world.

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's so true that, you know, that that effect of a lot of strong families just being able to ripple out into society and really, you know, really bolster that society.

[SPEAKER_02]: You could just talk a little bit about that [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I was talking to a friend who had little kids and she was just saying, like, I need to be doing something.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I'm not helping at church.

[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not doing any ministries.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I just had this thought of like, doesn't every other organization or ministry kind of step in the gap where in some way, the family has maybe failed.

[SPEAKER_05]: Now, I'm not seeing every threes that's a reason for every problem.

[SPEAKER_05]: But you look at like so many ministries, [SPEAKER_05]: are stepping in trying to fill in those gaps.

[SPEAKER_05]: And if you parent your kids well and they are able to go out through God's grace, of course, like into the world in strength, what a gift, like that they are not, they're coming into the world, not crippled and traumatized and carrying all of that baggage, but they're coming to the world from a position of strength.

[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_05]: that is an incredible gift and I'm living proof of that.

[SPEAKER_05]: Like I'm able, the only reason I'm sitting here is because I have had people pour into me and certainly we had problems and I've gone to counseling and all that, but in general, I'm a healthy person.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was raised in a healthy environment and I have something to give to the world.

[SPEAKER_05]: And again, the Lord uses the gaps in the broken pots, but it's relying to ourselves if we think [SPEAKER_05]: by raising kids who are healthy, who can hold up in the world and hold the world up.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_02]: I love that because I feel like, you know, especially, I know on my generation when it came to church and calling and missions, it's like this expectation of, okay, I've got to go out there and do something important for God.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I saw a lot of people around me, you know, people who are heating that call, but yet you're sort of neglecting their own families.

[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, God, God works in many different types of callings, but what what a powerful calling to be called to, you know, minister to your, your, your, your family, your wife and your kids into invest that time and to create, you know, an environment that's going to produce healthy people that are going to serve him well.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I was sorry.

[SPEAKER_05]: I was just going to end with this and it's a quote and maybe someone can tell me who said it because I have tried and tried.

[SPEAKER_05]: I think I thought it was Andy Stanley, but it's like this quote where it was like someone else can close the deal.

[SPEAKER_05]: Someone else can write the book.

[SPEAKER_05]: Someone else can teach the class.

[SPEAKER_05]: Only you can parent your kid.

[SPEAKER_05]: And I thought that's chep me and check a lot.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's amazing.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Well Jessica, thank you so much for joining us today.

[SPEAKER_01]: Before we go, can you share where listeners can connect with you and learn more about your new book?

[SPEAKER_01]: Come on, HUMM.

[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, definitely check out CUMM on HUMM.

[SPEAKER_05]: It's available on Amazon and member making mom and what then be kids as well.

[SPEAKER_05]: I know those will be gifts to your family and hop over and say hi on Instagram.

[SPEAKER_05]: If you're over there, I'm Jessica.smart with two teas.

[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much, Jessica.

[SPEAKER_02]: This was a pleasure talking with you today.

[SPEAKER_02]: Listeners be sure to follow us on Facebook or Instagram at the Bible for Kids.

[SPEAKER_02]: The Bible for Kids is now a 501C3 nonprofit and we'd love to have you join us in our mission of reaching kids with the message of the Bible.

[SPEAKER_02]: Visit thebibelforkids.com to explore our store, donate, or learn more today.

[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Bible for Kids Podcast with Trisha Goyer and Mike Nurekki.

[SPEAKER_00]: Be sure to connect with the Bible for kids on Instagram, Facebook, and at thebibelforkids.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Bible for Kids Podcast is powered by the Christian Parenting Podcast Network.

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