This time in the Magic Kitchen, we are joined by Irisanya Moon, and we are going to hex the patriarchy. Hell yeah. It's time. It's time. It is. For sure. I'm Leander Witchwood. And I'm Elyse Wells. And welcome to the Magic Kitchen Podcast, where we talk about magic, kitchen witchcraft, herbs, and everything in between. Thank you. Oh, oh, oh. The Magic Kitchen Podcast is funded and supported by thewichwoodteahouse.com, offering a variety of handouts, Hand-blended loose leaf teas as well as loose herbs for all of your ritual, spell work, wellness, and everyday enjoyment needs. If you would like to support this podcast while sipping a great cup of tea, head over to thewitchwoodteahouse.com and find the magic that's in store for you. Irasanya Moon, she, they, is an author of eight plus books. I think you're up to like ten I think over ten now, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She is a witch, priestess, international teacher, and initiate in the reclaiming tradition, a devotee of Aphrodite, Hecate, the Norns, and Iris. They have been practicing magic for twenty plus years. Ira Sanya is passionate about the idea that life is, and humans are, love spells. Ever experiencing a dance of desire and connection, moving in and out of the heart, always returning to love. Their teaching facilitation style is immersive, gracious, safe, and welcoming. She lives in Santa Rosa, California, and you can learn more at irasanyamoon.com. That link, of course, is in the show notes. Thank you for being here, Arsanya. Thank you for having me. I'm very excited. Very excited. I love that you were somebody I actually got to meet, not only in person, but in Greece. Like, I welcomed you to Greece. I picked you up at the airport. In Greece. Where, you know, we were talking and then all of a sudden I could pick you up. I was like, I've never met you. All right. Great. Let's do it. I'm going to be in Greece. You're in Greece. I think I just reached out to you over one of your, uh, mailing list. Yeah, I think so. One of the things you'd post, one of the things you'd sent and I was like, I mean, why not? We'll just go for it. And it was lovely. It was a great entry into Greece and basically getting me to the train, so. Oh, I love it. And, and I, and I remember you were like, I wrote like twelve something crazy. Like you were like, I wrote like 12,000 words on the flight over here. And I was like, and we're going to get along great. I'm busy. I am perpetually busy. Right now I'm writing, I think, well, I know I am, uh, three I have one book that's in process. I have two others that are committed and one's fresh and then a couple of other things going on. So it's a busy season and. I also just got, I was telling folks before we got on, I was at a Paris Paloma concert last night. So very, very hexing of patriarchy and the such with a whole group of wonderful, sweet people. Good. That's great. Need more spaces like that. Right. It was, you know, everybody's in labor. That song together was a delight at the end. Yeah. So I think in when in reading your book one of my favorite aspects of it not just learning more about Hestia because I really have not Tapped into learning about Hestia much, but the aspect that she shows up in community like she's the, you know, hearth fire for community spaces and. Um, I think in our current political climate, let's jump right in. Let's, let's just go for it. Let's do it. In our current political social environment. I want to know in your eyes, how can Hestia, how can she guide us? Toward developing these communal spaces and creating these safe spaces and activated spaces for change. I think one of the things that Hestia brought up for me over and over was this idea of cultivating a sense of belonging. I think that so much in modern culture, there is this desire to belong somewhere, which is why people end up in places that aren't great because they don't belong anywhere else. But Hestia feels like this very welcoming, like you're Your magic, your you is really welcome, and that's the entry, because once you sort of feel like you belong somewhere, then you begin to connect with each other, you begin to work towards shared visioning, and you begin to build community. I love that. And it reminds me of a, of, I think it was a reel or a TikTok that I saw the other day. It was a woman alone in her car talking about how she doesn't fit in anywhere. Yeah. And how she struggles to make genuine connections because she... You know, it doesn't fit into that norm, that acceptable societal expectation of you're supposed to talk this way, you're supposed to dress this way, you're supposed to like these things. And my heart broke for her because I resonated with her so, so much, like This is why I do what I do. This is why my entire craft is my entire life because I don't fit anywhere anywhere else. Try this. It doesn't work. That's the witch story. I mean, that's the witch story, right? Like where else do I fit? And how can I find my people? And yeah, I think that that ache for belonging, especially in a Western culture that's so rugged individual, uh, you have to like pull yourself up by your bootstraps and the such. Is really sad. And I think that it's not really what we're designed for. We're designed to be in groups, you know, this whole like separate houses, we don't share things is more of a modern convention than it has ever been. Part of humanity. And I really want to emphasize humanity that, you know, we used to have that. So, yeah. Well, and I also think the separation of family and of individuality, the separation of self. Is also a very capitalistic patriarchal view because you can't sell more houses, you can't sell more cars, you can't sell more commodities when people cohabitate, when they come together and share. And create together and do things together that are more sustainable. And we're recognizing that. We're coming around to recognizing that. So I think, yeah, that really resonated with me. And yeah, fingers crossed. We're doing it. We're doing it, right? I think this is a very painful way to do it. But yes, I feel like we're moving a little bit more quickly in that direction for a lot of reasons. And Um, you know, working with Hestia for me has just been, uh, a reminder that this is actually a conversation that's been going on for what, for what, for forever. I don't know what the right term is. A long time. Yeah. A long darn time. Yes. Yeah, and I think that the main function patriarchy served by forcing us to be individualistic, not only, of course, is the capitalist benefit, but before capitalism, You know, thinking of the Roman state rising from the Greek patriarchal state, which, which did rise from matrilineal cultures, of course, like, but it took time and it did usurp it and. Here we are. And what its main function did and what was some of the first atrocities wrought on temples of Hestia and Vesta, on temples of Aphrodite, Definitely in temples of Artemis was the breaking down of sisterhood. And when I use the word sisterhood, I want to put this out in front. I never mean cisgender hood. Like, one of my women in the red thread, shout out Melissa, she was like, it's not sister, it's not sisterhood, C-I-S, it's sisterhood. And I was like, exactly, because there is something to the way a marginalized group, like women, Get together and hold space for each other. The active listening, the genuine, authentic love. For that other person, the true support of what they are doing. Like, we really want each other to succeed. And by wanting others to succeed, we raise our own abilities to succeed. And so we all kind of do this lovely... You know, help each other up the ladder situation. And that is what sisterhood does. It gives us permission to expand into ourselves, to become who we can best become. And I think it's so... Precious, honestly, that the goddesses coming down from the cosmos coming up from the earth are who are reteaching that to us because they're who have always taught it to us. We've always learned sisterhood through listening to land through observing nature through being present in the moment and then saying hey you're here to to the others around us. And that's the power. Oh, absolutely. And listening to the myth and listening to, you know, how other stories have begun and gone through their paces and then resolve sometimes. Um, Hestia for me, one of the, and I know this is from Robert Graves, so, you know, give it a, give it a moment, but also, uh, that whole story of Hestia sort of looking around at her siblings and the Olympians and kind of going like, You all are nuts and sort of like, I don't want to be a part of this. And that was while that's an interpretation. I think that that makes a lot of sense for her. And also it brings up this whole thing of power structure that maybe power and influence isn't about always being at the table. It's also about having influence away from that, knowing when to step back and knowing when that's not your place. And not that it's not more powerful to like step back either. And I think that to me, if, if, if leadership could think about that, like, am I the best person here? I think things would look a little bit different, but humility. And patriarchy is a weird dynamic. It is. And it borders line on that humiliation. Like it's humiliating to not be at the top somehow. But I love the aspect of Hestia being that no drama mama. I resonate with that 100% because I do not want to be in spaces where... There's a constant judgment of other people, where there's a constant ridicule of other people, where there's a constant, well, I'm better than you because. And I, there's too many spaces where I have to show up that are like that, that I Just don't like being there, but it's necessary to be there because they need a balance has to be made. So those of us who don't like that need to be in those spaces. Which, which is hard because then how do we as practitioners who don't like the drama but have to be in the drama and have to navigate ourselves to the drama. Yeah. I'm curious, is Hestia a good guide for us to keep our autonomy there, to keep our senses about us? What are your thoughts on that? I personally think so. And one of the things that I talk about a lot in the book, I just did a book launch online yesterday. So I saw, I was looking at my words again and kind of going like, oh, I really emphasize this part. And this idea of collective vision and values, but that doesn't mean that it's one voice. It means that there are a bunch of voices and we're all looking at perhaps the same value interpreted in different ways. So there is. Definitely a place for autonomy, but also that shared wisdom and how can all of this work together. One of the things that's. Always been a value and a priority in reclaiming witchcraft is this idea of consensus and how do we come to two decisions with each other. With hearing everybody's voices, but not necessarily, you know, uh, always having like one way to. Sort of, uh, make a decision. So it's everybody interpreting what is best for them or best for the situation and what's best for the whole, not for one person. So it's everybody's voices totally matter, but it's for the common good. So I like that and I think Hestia is really the a great guide for that starting with vision and starting with where we're all at individually and seeing where we go from there. And when we think about living in spaces, there's like the micro spaces of maybe your workplace and you know you're probably the only witch there and you know you're probably the only animus there and you know and and being the outsider That way. But then there's the reality for the majority of Americans right now, where we feel like outsiders in our own country and our country is consistently reminding us, especially thinking of our trans brothers and sisters and siblings. That you are welcome here. Like, the narrative is now shifting to our actual society no longer welcoming its citizens. And I think that's one of the reasons. Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go, go along. Exactly. That's what I was going to say. That's exactly why this book is so helpful right now. Well, I think one of the reasons, one of the things I bring it back to values is if we can get a conversation to values versus what that looks like specifically for everyone, we can get, I think, on the same page more quickly, or at least on this place of, oh, we're all talking about similar things. And we might all have a different vision, but how can we sort of say what's important? I think overall, and I don't want to speak for every group in the world, but I think that people as a whole want to be safe. They want to be secure. If we can have those conversations, I think there's not a, there is still a divide, but there's not as big of a divide, and I think we'll be able to hear each other more. Uh, that's the big thing for me in this moment. And as I'm watching this, I think we have a lot of the same values. We're looking at it differently. So if we can just come to a place of coming together to at least acknowledge some similarity, I think it Might like drop our shoulders a bit and allow us to sort of meet each other where we're at. For me, that's a true essence of community. That's what community is supposed to do. Not, I am the voice and you will listen to me and... If you don't, then you're out. You know, that to me, that's very, it's very patriarchal. And I, and I struggle with that in going into these communal spaces where I don't have control over that. Um. And I use that loosely because even in my own communal spaces, like I don't control the dynamic. I let the dynamic unfold. I let everybody be heard. I just facilitate. That's what I, that's my position there. So when I go into some of these spaces where It's very much a. Hierarchical, top-down view of everything. It makes me very uncomfortable. So I think in my own personal, like, practice, I'm going to explore, like, how to... How to use the energy of Hestia to better navigate those and and how how can I show up in a better way for the people there who maybe are feeling the same way. They're kind of looking at it, but they're just kind of going with the crowd because this is our space. You know, we, we belong here, quote unquote. I've got the air quotes out because we belong here. Well, that's how eclectic witchcraft arose, really. You know, Wicca was rigid. And so other structures started to arise from it, like Alexandrian Wicca or fairy, F-E-R-I, tradition Wicca, where it was still structured, but a new structure. And then slowly but surely we get covens that are even less structured. My origins come in way, way back. Um, do go back to fairy tradition, but now we call ourselves the eclectic fairy tradition and we spell it F-A-E-R-Y because we've brought the land into it more, you know, and it's, and it is truly eclectic because nobody has to work with any given god or goddess. Whereas originally in Wicca, it's like, these are the only names that you can use. And, and then we get the radicals like Scott Cunningham and Silver Ravenwolf in the 90s and the late 80s telling us, actually, you don't even need a covenant at all. You can do this totally on your own. And that was so, so radical. And so it's been beautiful. And then like the early 2000s where folk magic was now allowed. To be incorporated. It's so funny, but young people listening or new people listening, you might be like, wait, what are you talking about? But for real, practicing folk magic was considered hella taboo. You had to like justify why you were doing it. And like everything was like... You're not even wearing a robe. You're not even practicing skyclad. Like, how dare you call yourself a witch? Like, it was such a different world. And it's been so beautiful to see that shift. And it's... The witch world is a microcosm, but the macrocosm is doing the same thing. Like we're getting more and more permissive to just exist. And it's fun because it's like, that's what individual was always supposed to mean. It was supposed to mean part of a whole. Not excluded from it because you're individual. And so we're slowly getting that wheel pieced back together. I mean, I literally picture it like, like the wheel on the tarot, like the spokes returning to place. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that there is a lot to be said to, you know, in my bio, it talks about, you know, being a love spell. And for me, part of that is meeting people where they're at. And that takes work sometimes. But how do we meet people where they're at, meet them where we're at? Because that is an authentic connection. But it also takes, you know, a lot of personal work, awareness, and a want to build community. You know, community building, uh, one of the current conversations around it online, which I am loving is this sort of trying to disc deconstruct the idea of, well, we don't owe anything to anyone. Yes, we do. We do. If we want to build community, we do owe things to each other. We do sometimes have to step up when we don't want to. We sometimes have to have hard conversations when we don't want to. We have to show up. Because that way we foster trust, we foster connection, and we also foster somewhere in our brains knowing that I stepped up this time, sometime someone else is going to do that. I love this conversation that's happening now and I think it's part of the culture that's going on right now realizing like we can't actually do this alone. So how do we do this? And how do we meet ourselves where we're at? How do we realize that sometimes community building isn't fun? It is tedious and that's part of being a human. So how can we do it better? And I think history is a good guide for it. The Sacred Wild can't be explained, only experienced. Sacred Wild Priestess is a 12-week online initiation into land ritual, sacred sound, and soul remembering. Hear it from past students. We got to go do these beautiful rituals that, you know, open your heart into the space and allow you to feel the depth of the land that You really can't do on your own. This was really about finding in-person community and my breakthroughs came From the sisterhood. It felt like my voice could finally come out. It is more than a course. It's a return. Join us at seekingnumina.com slash sacredwildpriestess or tap the link in the show notes. Early bird ends June 10th. I want to go back to something we said about, you said it, Irisanya, about, um, I don't know how you said it, but it made me think of how we have to walk the walk, not like I feel like the time for talking has kind of passed. Like, like 2015, I was a canvasser for Bernie Sanders. And I remember then just like reposting, sharing, every gathering with family or coworkers was like, A chance to talk. It was like, hey, just so you know, like, I noticed you're on Medicaid. Like, you know, that's part of, like, you know, like, that was the time for talk. It kind of sort of led somewhere, kind of didn't. Obviously, it didn't because, like, here we are. And Then we sort of hit a stride of like, okay, well, they're the other side, I won't engage. I actually, maybe this is a premature hope rather than something in the zeitgeist, but I do think it's in the zeitgeist right now. I think it's in the populace and it's in the collective that we just need to stay open hearted. And walk our walk and, and show the people that are waking up to, oh, crap, this isn't what I thought I voted for. I mean, like, like, I, I, This isn't the witchiest thing in the world, but I got pretty upset with Stephen Colbert the other night. Um, I love him. I watch him every day. But the other day he said something like, uh, You know, voters, MAGA voters are having buyer's remorse. And he was like, good for them. I hope they are. Like, he was kind of making fun of them. And I was like, that's not the way, though. Like, we need to just, you know, Be happy that they are like I've been loving watching signs disappear in people's yards as I drive my regular routes in the United States. Um. We need to just say, okay, wool was pulled over your eyes. Glad you're now acknowledging it. There's no point to rub their noses in it. It's not going to help. And instead, we can just walk our walk, be community members, build inclusive communities, and let them slowly come back into the fold. And that is how we will make change in the next four years. I think that's how we need to act. We need to show up. We need to be ambassadors for ourselves. When we are out in the world as witches, we are ambassadors for our craft. We are ambassadors for the priestess path. If we follow that, we're ambassadors for who we are and where we are. I learned that as an expat, being the only American in a British colony in the Middle East as a kid. I was truly an ambassador for my country and I took that to heart and I was like, okay, well, I might feel this way, but I need to project that, but also have authentic conversations about why I feel this way. Like, it was a very hard thing to navigate. And it's going to be difficult. Like you said, we have to do things that are hard if we want to serve our communities. We have to do things that are uncomfortable, that stretch us, because that's how communities grow. They stretch. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And to be fair, I think a certain degree of why we're here in this moment is that we humans in general, we seek out comfort. We seek out what the easy route is because that's just what we do. And that makes sense. It's easier. It's less energy. We can predict it to a certain extent. This is a time to get a little uncomfy. And, um, also, you know, I've seen this also in conversations about racism and transphobia, you know, encountering those conversations is challenging, especially for people who look like me and, um, Sometimes you're going to have to mess up and it's okay. You're not a bad person. You should still have those conversations. Because that's how you learn and grow and hopefully make connections and build relationships in the end really this is what we're trying to do is we're trying to build relationships and relationships I don't know about anybody else but sometimes they're challenging and sometimes I have to. Take a breath and maybe consider someone else's view. And, um, I don't want to get off just a tad sometimes. I mean, Sagittarius, you know, and. I, I hear that that's the thing. No, I'm, I'm much better than I used to be. Uh, not to veer too away, away from Hestia, but I was, um, I do this like once a month Aphrodite presticks training and right after the inauguration. Folks were really in it and someone said, you know, the question that I just keep coming back to is how can I be a love priestess in this? And I said, yeah, that's a really good question. And everybody, there's a few people in the group and everybody had a different answer, but I'll say for me that my answer is what you were saying, Elise, is this idea of holding a space of compassion because at some point There's going to be a reckoning and I am not going to sit there and go, I told you so. That's not very, uh, welcoming and that's not fostering any sort of belonging. It just continues to divide. Uh, it's not to say that I don't want to hold people accountable for things. And also, I think that my space is to be the place that you can come to. And say like, yes, this happened. How do we move forward? And it's a good point with the discomfort because we can't grow from a place of complacency and comfort. We never do. That's the reason we're there is because we're okay with what's going on. So in a way. To open eyes, to move past the cognitive dissonance that happens in these situations where people struggle with two points of view. It's, it is a point where we have to put the screen in front of people and say, look, this is what's happening. And those who are unhealed are always going to look at it as an attack or an I told you so. But it's not necessarily that. Sometimes it's a matter of, look, this is what's happening. You need to look at it. You need to see it because that discomfort is where we grow from. You know, like forming the diamond under pressure it doesn't form when conditions are not hot and and pressurized and over time, and it does it takes time I think that's something that we. Are impatient with sometimes with these situations we're impatient with why can't you just see the truth? Why can't you just see what's happening? And that we could get wrapped up in that very easily. So the idea that we just hold that space and use and use the principles of Hestia to hold that space of. Not causing more drama, but holding up the truth, saying we're here now, so how do we fix it? This is what's happening. I personally think, and I've said this before, that discomfort is an ally. It is an indicator that you're coming up against a growth point or you're coming up against a place of you have decisions to make. You know, do I expand into something different? Do I stay where I am? I don't have the right answer for that, but discomfort is an ally. It is literally your body going. I've never been here before. What do I do? I think to get curious versus defensive is probably a really great idea. I can imagine that Hestia is like that. I imagine she asks a lot of questions of people. I imagine that she is sort of like, huh, why did you say it like that? I think that that's the energy that I kind of want to bring in. And I had a teacher in the beginning of my witchcraft career, whatever, um, who was like this, who was very much like open arms. You could be whoever you were. And that allowed me to soften and actually feel safe enough to grow past the places that I, that I was existing in, in that moment. That's beautiful. Yeah, I always remind people that ego isn't evil. It doesn't want us, we shouldn't try to kill it, but we should try to understand why it wants to protect us from discomfort. You know, I always remind people, like, it's not, it evolved from, like, There's tigers outside. They will eat you. You better not go outside. Like, that's where it came from and it used to be very clear what a threat was. Now it's not. And so in the past... You know, not too, too long, but twenty to maybe 100 years, depending where you're from, you might now, as opposed to past generations, have Less actual threats to your actual life and so your ego starts to perceive difference as threat. And that's where that, that's where that, oh, it's uncomfortable, it's bad. So, so the guiding principle I always say to people is, is this my intuition saying no or is this my ego saying no? How do you know the difference? If you can boil down the no to fear, it's the ego saying no. If you can boil down the no and it's actually kind of a yes? Then it's like, then it's a yes. Then it's your intuition, you know? So, so we can, we can easily tell. When we recognize fear's inner play in our growth journey, we can tell what's intuition and what's not. And then, of course, our intuition is where we can call in the goddesses. They help us so, so much with that. And even if you don't make the right call in that moment, don't worry. You'll get another chance. That's what I've learned in life. You don't get it this time. Next time you will. Hopefully. Yeah, yeah, and they might try another language or, or you might think you're ready for something you're not and so you might be getting so funny I just had an episode out on seeking numina of the sacred places podcast, where I talked about why land spirits might tell you no. Like, you might actually get a no from deity. I also have shared this story before, but Bridget said no. The first goddess I ever called in was Bridget, and she basically showed up, gave me the sweetest smile. He shook her head and said, no, not yet. And I was crushed. I was crushed. I was like, but I love you. And it just, we still do not have the tight relationship I've always wanted with Bridget, but it's because I haven't, it's, she's of hearth and home and I've been nomadic my whole life. Like, of course it's not our time yet. Like, there's just so many things. But then when I visited her well, We had an incredible experience like so she showed up for me again and again, just never as in the way I thought I wanted. And it's about recognizing those those flows and those. Yeah, the yeses and nos from the soul from spirit. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, that's the way relationships are. You, I mean, as much as I, you know, again, coming back to the whole, like, do you want to control them or do you want to be in relationship? You know, control is, is about safety in the end, but it's also manipulation. You know, I'm not. Like, I don't go into a relationship with Hestia going like, okay, if I just do all these things, then you're going to do this. Yeah. It's transactional. That doesn't feel good. Yeah, exactly. It's transactional, not reciprocal. And I think that's one of the things that she's really taught or like really hammered home for me is this idea that community for community's sake. Yes, I think at the back of our heads, like there's a moment of like, okay, if I do this, then I'm also going to be held by community, which I think is fair, but I'm not doing it to get that. I know that that is maybe more accessible. Because of how I relate with folks. And I think, I think the other thing to remember about community is even if you are the first person to say, hey, we should have a book club, or hey, let's meet for the Sabbath. Being a leader doesn't have to mean you're not co-creating as well. Like, I think that's the difference. I think that's the witchy vibe. Like, we like to co-create. We don't see our gods and goddesses as above us. They work with us. Somebody asked me that. I said, you always talk about working with, working with. What do you mean by that? And I said, well, because we're in relationship. We're working with each other. I'm not asking, you know, Hesia, hey, can you now go do this thing for me? Thanks. Bye. That's, that's patriarchal religion. That's, that's. Pray and then, okay, it's going good. You know, we don't do that. No, that's treating the gods like a gumball machine. If I just put in enough quarters, then I'll get like the prize I really want. And that just annoys me. I try to speak the good word of not that all over the place. Sure. I mean, can you imagine? I think that that, I mean, it's just a vestige of Christian, like organized religion, Christianity. Like I get it. And also people do feel safer when they know who's in charge, right? So they sometimes do feel like, oh, it's not me. You know, I don't have to make this decision, but also Decisions impact you. And even if someone is not a leader, there is still power. And that is something to think about it. You know, there's assumed power, there's soft power, there's hard power, there's all these different ones that we're really seeing play out in the world right now. And to remember that that is still a part of it, even if you don't want to be a part of it, you still have power. You're showing up still has an impact. So how are you going to use that? And how can we create. Systems or structures and conversations that allow us to step into it more healthfully, healthily and more sustainably. And that's kind of why I wrote the book because I was like, ah, okay, based on my experience, it's always better to have some structures and some ideas in place before you get to the crappy parts, because those are going to come. Um, so have an, have a plan of how you're going to navigate that because when you're in that state and fight and flight is real, you want to have a plan that you just turn, open the book and you just turn to it. Uh, and then you can sort of settle into community because these things are going to happen, but you have a plan. If you're a serious practitioner teetering on the cusp of progress, it's time to step into true spiritual mastery. This is your invitation to join the Gardens of the Mystic initiation and certification program where I offer practitioners like you Advanced teachings and guided experiences. Sign up now at LeandraWitchwood.com or find the link in the show notes to learn more. Embrace your higher calling. Your journey awaits. Yeah. Never don't do the practices. Never don't show up at the altar. Somebody said that to me. They said, I'm having the worst week and I just really wanted to do the ritual, but I wasn't in the headspace. I said. You just said you were having the worst week. That's the headspace. Show up. Go to the altar. Leave it at the altar. I say that all the time. Leave it at the altar. What do you got going on that you just can't stop ruminating on? Leave it at the altar. You don't need it. You don't need to take that with you into your next step. You don't need to journey forward with that on your shoulders. Leave it at the altar. Even if it's still up in the ether working itself out, if you've done all the things you could do, you know, the ancient Greeks, we love to talk about All of the religious stories and the mythology that we have, but there's also the Stoics. We never talk about the Stoics, but they were a really deeply affecting philosophy. That kind of, it's kind of like deism personifying America's beginning, stoicism personified patriarchal Greece. And it was actually a pretty pure, wholesome concern before, you know, patriarchy did its thing to it. Like, it does with a lot of things, right? Humans can't have nice things. Um, but stoicism is the idea that if it's not in your control, Leave it be. Leave it at the altar, if you will. Just don't bother. Just don't know about it. Keep your eyes on it. But don't let it affect your emotions. Don't let it change the way you show up at the things you can control. Because you can't control it. So it's working on that release and I think in witchcraft we have the power to always recognize that release means it means invite and invite means release. And the push and the pull and the give and the take of universe and energy We have the liminal power to know that we are the in-between of those things. We are the conduit and the mover and shaker that decides what's given and what's taken. And don't forget that, you know, when things are hard. And I think in reading about your, reading your words about Hestia, it reminded me of the element of surrender in, in our situations and our path. That that going back to that element of control going back to the element of like leadership and communities and that sort of thing when sometimes it's it's essential to just surrender to the process. Letting, letting it work itself out. Letting people do what they're going to do. Um. I mean, as we're witnessing right now, if you give people enough rope, they hang themselves, which is an awful thing to say in that, but in the context of people will mess up. People will show their true colors. So we can't control that. We can't control when those true colors come out. So when we're frustrated with the, the political zeitgeist and the, the social upheaval, the, The Christians showing up to shut down, uh, pagan witchy businesses and that sort of thing. We can't control that. We can't control them, but we can control how we react to it. We can surrender to the process and trust that the work we're doing. The way we're showing up matters and creates something. It creates its own container of change and its own container of, of growth. I don't know if I find, you know, my daily rituals of reading for myself, you know, pulling a card or dropping a coin or, um, journaling helps me reframe myself. Um, Do you have daily rituals that you do that you can offer to our audience that would connect them to that aspect of Hestia? I think for me, it's more about when I hear daily things. The neurodivergence in me sort of recoils and goes, how about consistent practices? So even, and I'm saying that I was going to have a different answer, but here's actually my answer is that. Having practices that I return to is a practice of returning, and that is a big community skill. It is a skill to continuously come back to what you've said is important, even when you don't want to. How do I keep coming back? That to me is devotion. That is devotion. Isn't about sitting at your altar for hours at a time. In my opinion, it is. It is coming back when you don't want to. It is coming back when it's hard. It is coming back. When you're bored. And so I think that anything that I do that I come back to. Is actually part of this. It's part of that energy of community because it's, it's building the muscle of the next time that I won't need to show up and I'm sort of like not feeling it. I do this every day where I come back to things because they are important because they do matter. Even if I can't see the difference right now, even if I can't see it in a week, Even if it never makes a difference, it's making a difference for me and probably for folks who are watching me do it. Because I think that when you're talking about like we're, you know, trying to surrender in and sort of figure out how to build this community in this particular space. We are in our surrender, hopefully creating spaces of safety and authenticity and people connect with that. And then those communities grow. Um, and then they become their own, uh, safe spaces. And then you don't have to necessarily, you have a place to go. It's not like you're fighting against something. You have some place to go. I love that. Yeah. And I, and I like what you said about regular practices too. I was thinking about it as you were speaking. I was like, what do I do every single day without fail, truly without fail? Because I would say to you, oh, I try to pull a card every day, but I But I don't. I don't do it every single day. I go through weeks where I do, especially in times of transition where I'm like, oof, should I do this right now? Should I buy that right now? What kind of pipeline expenses are going to come my way? Like, that's when I head to the cards on a more regular basis. But in my regular routine, I think the number one thing I do every day is, and this is, this is so simple, but so not. I start my day in the mirror. And as I'm getting ready, I flirt with myself a little bit. I smile at her and I'm like, thank you for. And I just give gratitude. You know, I'm already, I'm already in the bathroom. I'm already brushing my teeth. I'm already brushing my hair. I'm already doing all the things. So I just embedded it in there where I make eye contact with myself and I recognize my own partnership with myself. And I say thank you, Elise, for showing up today. Thank you for getting up on time, even though we went to bed really late last night. Like, anything I can start with that small, it starts to be clearer. Like, thank you for following through with initiation. It was so hard to do that. And then switching things online during COVID and You know, like being able to recognize all that you suddenly realize, oh wow, I did that too. And, and it starts to make you more aware of your practice and the things you've done. So that could be a good thing for anybody who's like, man, I don't know. I don't, I don't do good with daily things like that. That's probably my only thing I truly do every day. And then if I catch myself in a mirror throughout the day. And it's funny because if you visit me, like, I have so many mirrors. Like, and I just, and I didn't realize it until we were moving. And then I was like, oh, we do have a lot of mirrors. My husband's like, why do you have a mirror in every room? I was like, I don't know. But now I do know it's because mirrors are magical. They're portals to the self. And that's why they scare us. That's why we don't like looking at ourselves sometimes is because sometimes we don't like looking at ourselves, you know, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically. But if we can build that love with ourselves. The goddess is in us. So if anyone's struggling with deity relationship as well, this practice will actually help that. Like it's, it's a powerful one. It's so simple, but also not like to make eye contact with yourself and say like, I love you. Thank you. That easy at first. Yeah, I actually so I'm gonna confess my at my daily practices are things that I do daily. And it's gonna sound silly. It doesn't sound witchy at all. And that's fine. Wordle. I actually do Wordle every single morning, almost without fail. It is the one thing that has stuck for years. And here's why I'm realizing it in this moment. I share my Wordle outcome or whatever. With three different groups. So it's almost like a check-in. Like, oh, yours didn't go that well today, you know? And so I have this check-in point every single day and people notice when you're not doing it. They, or sometimes people go, oh, I'm not going to do it for a few days. It's this really interesting, like online, like conversation that is keeping community together. I mean, I think we've been doing it for three years or four years or something. And every morning I have to remember, oh, I have to send it to this person, this person, this person. And then the other thing I do is I'm trying to learn Greek on Duolingo. So that little owl is looking at me. I literally was gonna say I do my Greek Duolingo every day. Like I'm fluent, but I love, I just love engaging. Like I actually finished the Duolingo course, which is creepy and weird to get to the end of a course, by the way. It's really strange looking. Yeah, there's like practice stuff instead. And it's like, Yeah. Yeah, but it's funny because I also would say my Duolingo practice is a community thing because my mom and I have a streak and we send to our family group chat like everybody's Greek progress. So that's interesting how the daily practices become community mirrors. They can. I think that's a beautiful thing to do. I mean, you know, because we're not all in communal spaces all the time, we can't just like wake up and like say hi to folks, right? Like mostly. So this is another way to do it. It's sort of like the modern take, but also I have talked to the same people. I've seen them go through things. You know, sometimes they've been gone since they've been sick. Someone else has been sick. They've been traveling, whatever. It is. And I've seen these people in person. Not a ton. So it's been a fascinating thing and I guess I didn't really click until like I was sitting here thinking about that. Thank you so much for listening. Or I'm trying to come up with an excuse for Wordle being a daily practice. Whatever. Like it could be both. Very, very efficient. And I would think I would just say like the book like really does go through building a community from scratch, but also meeting your community where it is and to make it better. Make it more sustainable, more. Um, healthier, I think is a good way to put it by looking at how do we create, how do we choose the values that we share or how do we find them or how do we realize, oh, some of us don't have those. And is that important? Um, How do we create a vision and a mission and sort of a goal? How do we make decisions? How do we meet conflict? How can we do cool rituals together? And how can we help each other and our communities and the world? I think is fair to say. And one of the things that I want to be clear about at least my stance on community building, and I think has just, uh, along the way in this. Is that it can sound really dull and boring to say community building and people can sort of glaze over and go and think about all their communities and about how that has gone in the past. I feel that. One of the things I make a point of because my mentor made a point of this too, is to have fun. This is not just work. Just hang out. You don't always have to make a decision. Doesn't always have to be serious. Uh, it can just be fun. Have a potluck. Uh, if you're not meeting in person, do it over zoom. There are definitely ways to do this. We are, whether you name yourself a witch or not, We are creative. You're in a lineage or a group of problem solving folks, um, folks who are, you know, calling out things that don't work and coming together to figure out how to make them work better, how to fight against them. And how to call out the structures that are oppressive and continually causing harm. But you have to have fun, too, because otherwise you're not going to keep doing this. Ask any activist. It's not going to, it's not going to keep going if you're not having some moment of joy and connection in this too. And that's one of the things that's keeping me going in these moments, not only relationships with gods, but also recognizing that joy is a very It's, it's joy is activism too. Um, and as someone who, um, identifies as queer identifies as, you know, a magic maker and all the, you know, all the weird stuff that people think like you will not take my joy from me. Like you can do a whole bunch of other things. Please don't. But I am going to hold on to my joy. And I am going to show that I will still exist and make the most of this life, um, as it is. So that's, I mean, I think that's why has just like, get me out of the Olympians. I want to go have fun. I, I would just want to out. I would like to do the thing that I'm really passionate about because that keeps me going. That keeps the flame going of all of this. Yeah. Yeah, it is radical to choose joy right now, and so I shall. Because what is being a witch if not being radical? I mean, I surrender to that too. I mean, that's as much as sometimes There are these old stories in my head that go like, oh, why are you talking about love magic so much and love spells? How cheesy? No, it's not. It's. Love is what instigates uh, change for the better or for worse. Love instigates conflict often. Love also heals. It's real important. So if, if you are feeling the least bit cringe in your life right now, I say still go for it because why not? This is also your life. Yes. All this other stuff, but how do you nourish yourself to go back to that? And continuously come back to a community. You can't, you can't, uh, what do I say in classes often? Like as an agreement, I say, you don't have to do your hardest work all the time. You just don't. Today doesn't have to be that day, but the more you nourish yourself, the more you build community, the more you build relationships with God, Hestia, et cetera, anybody, the more you will come back to the work that's really important. The work that is uncomfortable. The work that continuously asks you to show up. Yeah. And the more you'll be able to expand your bandwidth to show up more and more. Yeah, it's capacity building. Exactly. That's, and that's what joy is for us. And that's exactly why the news doesn't like us to be joyful because it keeps us at a low, low, low, low, low vibration, low frequency where we are most malleable and where our ego is all we can hear. Yeah. Yep. Thank you so much for being here. This was such a great conversation. I feel like we could talk for eighty-five million years. Oh, I definitely could. We could have plans and schemes and rituals and books and all this stuff. We could, we could be here for a half minute. Yeah. So tell our listeners where they can find you on all the social places, your website, all that good stuff. Yeah, I mean, the best place to sort of find all the things in one place is my website. So it's irisanyamoon.com. I do a weekly, sometimes more, substack called Heart Magic. So irisanya.substack.com. My social media, uh, different places that you can find me are on the top of my website, but I have a real unique name, so you could probably throw that into a search engine and find me. Uh, you'll find a lot of things. I do a lot of online classes, um, and I also have a fair amount of books. And so, um, and they just, more is coming. Um, but hey, Hestia just came out yesterday, March 25th. And I'm really excited. It was, um, I had a sense when I started to propose it that this was going to be needed in this moment. I mean, it's needed in every moment, but, uh, you'll find a lot of my books talk about those different points of. You'll find like a little thread in each one that's sort of like, and maybe we could look at this in society. Just saying. Not just, we can hang out with the gods too. Um, but in building relationships, we foster community. No matter what you believe in or work with. Merry meet. Merry part. And merry meet again. Thank you for joining us on the Magic Kitchen podcast. Please visit my website, LeandraWitchwood.com, for news, information, and more episodes. I'm Elyse Wells, and I can be found at Seeking Numina on YouTube. Instagram and Facebook and SeekingNumina.com. That's Seeking N-U-M-I-N-A.